COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING - COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, April 13, 2004, 10:18 a.m. - - - BILL 040255 - An Ordinance adopting the Operating Budget for Fiscal Year 2005. PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE L. BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY COUNCILMAN JUAN F. RAMOS COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN FRANK DI CICCO COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL 2 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 P R O C E E D I N G S - - -
A quorum being present, the committee of the whole is called into session, regarding Bill 7 040255, an Ordinance adopting the operating budget for fiscal year 2005. So we thank you all for being here, and we're ready to begin. We will ask the... Clerk will read the title of the Bill. Thank you. MR. McPHERSON: Bill Number 040255, an Ordinance adopting the operating budget for fiscal year 2005.
Thank you very much. We'll ask the Administration to come forward, begin your testimony.
Good morning. My name is Joyce Wilkerson. I'm Chief of Staff to the Mayor. I'm here to present testimony regarding fiscal year 2005 operating budget to the Office of the Mayor. 3 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 Because the amount requested for the Mayor's Office from the General Fund for fiscal year 2005 is $80,395,773, an increase of $4,412,366 over FY 2004 estimated obligations. Of this total amount, 4.195773 is for employee compensation and purchase of services, material, supplies and equipment. The largest portion of this request, the Class 100 appropriation, includes approximately $3,335,849 for 46 positions and represents an increase of $430,086 over 2004 estimated obligations. The 46 positions represent a reduction of three positions from the authorized level for FY '04, and the requested Class 100 appropriation reflects a 14 percent increase, resulting mostly from additional staff in the Office of the Inspector General and the Office of External Affairs. There is also an increase of $11,588 in Class 200 appropriation and a reduction of $28,732 in Class 3/400 appropriation. 4 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 The increase in the Class 200 appropriation results mostly from additional funding for the Office of the Inspector General to contract for forensic auditing services. The remaining portion of the General Fund total, $4,200,000, is for the City scholarships. This amount will fund a dramatic new program intended to help Philadelphia high school students graduate -- graduates attend college. Through a partnership between the Mayor, School District CEO Paul Vallas, and U.S. Representative Chaka Fattah, the new non-profit organization, College Opportunity Resources for Education Philadelphia, will provide college scholarships of up to $3,000 each for needy Philadelphia high school graduates who might otherwise not be financially able to attend college. This makes Philadelphia the first city in the country to have a system wide scholarship program for graduating high school students. 5 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 The City's contribution was budgeted to be $4 million per year for the next four years, while the School District will contribute $6 million per year. This is truly a ground breaking opportunity to develop our youth and our future workforce. The grants revenue request for fiscal year 2005 is $1,252,355, a decrease of $1,043,123 from FY '04 estimated obligations. The remaining grants are principally from the state to the Mayor's Commission on Aging. The grants will enable funding for occupational training for older adults. This substantial reduction in grant requests to the Mayor's Office results mostly from the Administration's decision to place literacy and transportation grants and programming under the direction of the Free Library and City Planning respectively. It is our expectation that connecting literacy and transportation to city agencies that share their mission will enhance the effectiveness of the respective 6 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 programs. This budget also includes three additional staff in the office of the Inspector General, which will allow the Administration to keep its commitment to promoting high ethical standards in municipal government. In addition, this budget includes additional staff in the Office of External Affairs, which will allow the Administration to more effectively communicate the City's priorities to local, state and federal officials. You will be hearing from the Mayor's Office of Community Services, the Office of Housing and Community Development, the Office of Labor Relations, and the Mayor's Office of Information Services on their fiscal year 2005 operating budget requests later in this these hearings. Thank you for your support. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you 7 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 very much. Can you explain why the Mayor cut elected officials' budget at the same time he was requesting to increase his General Fund budget $412,366, which equates to an percent increase? 8
Well, some of this 9 is because the City for decades has under 10 funded the Office of the Inspector General. 11 Historically, we've only had three people in those -- in that position, growing out of -- in part growing out of the 21st Century forum. And also, out of our experience over the last three years, we recognize that we needed to do a better job working across the City on internal controls, and also trying to address the various ethical challenges in government. And so, the decision was made to increase that funding. We also, over the last several years, have had enormous challenges trying to represent the City effectively in Harrisburg and also in Washington. 8 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 The City has increased the seniority of people in those positions, to try to better advocate for the City's position. We have confronted challenging issues, ranging from the City's tax structure to the Parking Authority, governance issues, to Convention Center governance issues, and thought that we needed to bring more senior staff to the table in some of those areas. That's the basis for the change.
Let me be more specific. In Class 100, you requested an increase 15 percent, $430,086. Would you explain what this increase is for and why it's needed?
Well, what we have done is, we've increased the number by $300,000, the number of employees we have, the compensation and number of employees we have working for the office of the Inspector General. That -- Those are all funded out of the Mayor's Office. We've also increased the External 9 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 Affairs by two persons, in order to better address the challenges we have in Harrisburg and Washington.
In your Class 200 -- In your Class 250 budget, you're requesting $250,000 for Internal auditing services. What audits are you requesting and why can't the Controller perform them?
These are in connection with forensic audits, done by the Office of the Inspector General. The Inspector General serves two primary functions. Some of them are criminal in nature, investigations that are criminal in nature. There have been reports over the last year about issues across government. Frequently, those results are either anonymous calls to the I.G. or at times they are instigated by the Administration. We don't have in-house capacity to conduct forensic audits, and so, have those things done by the Inspector General. It's a 10 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 different type of investigation from that done by the Controller's Office.
Due to federal government actions, during a budget crunch, decide this is the time to bring that department up to snuff? This is... My experiences over the last... over the last at least decade, the City has had -- has not paid sufficient attention to some of the internal controls. It came to the attention of the Administration through... I think it was back in 2001, where we had a number of inspectors in the Water Department, who were indicted federally. And what we did was, ask ourselves, how could something like this happen; and sat down with a group of people across government, and ended up retaining consultants to work with us, trying to figure out how could a problem like this happen. I believe it was 19 employees that 11 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 were involved. And what we found was that the City had very little, in terms of consistent internal controls. And we've been working since that point in time trying to help departments put systems in place, consistent standards in place, to deal with things like contracting, monitoring contracts, invoicing. A lot of the systems that you would expect to be in place have deteriorated over the years. And I think that in the long run what we'll find is that the City is much better off, that we are more efficient, that we are not losing money, if we go on and spend the time now, in trying to figure out what kind of commitment we ought to make to the Office of the Inspector General. The 21st Century Forum did a survey of about eight different jurisdictions across the country, and found that some were substantially larger than 12 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 Philadelphia. Although Chicago is a much larger City, it had an internal -- it had an Inspector General's budget of several million dollars. Other jurisdictions had considerably less money being allocated. But I think in the long run what we'll find is that the City is better off, that the work we do we'll do more efficiently, and that we'll be able to hold everyone across government to a much higher standard if we go on and spend these dollars now, even in difficult financial times.
Thank you. We're going to open the floor to my colleagues, so we'll try to do five minutes around, if that's acceptable to everyone. Councilwoman Krajewski.
Thank you. Joyce, my question is regarding the scholarships. Can you explain, when they make a decision to exclude the Catholic schools, especially in light of the fact 13 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 that the parents still have to pay the taxes that save the City and the state millions and millions of dollars.
I'd like to ask Debra Kahn to come up to address that issue.
We still can't hear you. Can you move the mike closer.
I'm sorry. The core scholarship program was initially proposed by Congressman Fattah. And discussed it with both the Mayor and the School District CEO Paul Vallas. And there were -- Really, the 14 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 principal driving motive behind it was to be able to increase the college-going rate among students in Philadelphia which is -- had been lower and is lower, compared to other competitive cities. And in some school districts, the college-going rate especially, we think that it's about -- around 30 percent range right now. And we need to get that higher to be competitive. So it wasn't so much a decision at all to exclude the other, you know, children, and particularly those who attend private and parochial schools. It was really about how could we address within the resources we thought we could raise the largest number of students, and really address the biggest problem, which was to increase the college-going rates, whereas we're told in the parochial system, for example, you know, those college-going rates are much higher than the majority schools --
At this time, when the group made that decision, again, it was made by the people who -- you know, those of us who designed the program initially, among the Congressman, the Mayor, you know, the School District. But again, it wasn't so much as a way to exclude. It was a way to say, within the resources that we have -- Actually, we achieved the primary goal that we have, increasing the college-going rates, and to be mindful of the budgetary constraints, that this was the place that we would start. Recognizing it -- And I think it's important to keep remembering that the public funding commitment for his is always intended to be temporary. The Chief of Staff described what's 16 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 in the City's budget now going forward for the next four years. And the School District's made a similar four-year commitment. But the idea is, at the end of those four years, that -- and the Congressman has taken on this leadership role and this responsibility -- they will be raising private funds to be able to replace all the public funds, so that this would be a publicly financed program. But having said that --
What would it cost to include the Catholic schools? How much difference?
Well, it really depends on how it was structured. And there are a number of options. And I guess it was the last week or the week before when we discussed this, you know, pretty extensively in the hearings. I certainly heard the sentiment from, you know, a number of your colleagues, other members of Council, who 17 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 have expressed the need. And what I said was, you know, we had been working with Councilman Ramos and members of the Archdiocese. And we continue to discuss it, and are willing to do that, different options.
Well, they certainly, you know, are very interested in being able to figure out a way for their students to participate.
I certainly will be looking at it, because I feel that they should be included. I mean, as I said before, they're saving the City and the state millions and millions of dollars by sending their children to parochial schools. Is there any chance that we can work 18 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 on that to see that they are included?
Yeah. We are continuing to discuss it and will get different options.
You are going on a continuous basis, looking into the parochial schools.
And you say that the charter schools are involved as well.
We likewise thank Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown for the information we received and the correspondence that she circulated 19 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 regarding the schools core scholarship program. Are there more questions on education?
Miss Kahn, isn't the... Congressman Fattah initiated money, federal money, that the School District is using? They're not using any local tax dollars, are they?
Right now they are pledged up to 6 million a year for each of four years. Of that 6 million, they expect that 3 million of that would be originating as federal funds.
Right now I think they're looking at a variety of different funding and other sources, but I'm not -- but I do not believe at this time that they're 20 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 looking at tapping into their operating funds.
Okay. I would just ask you to urge everyone involved with the scholarship program to decide... If they're going to make a decision to open it up, make the decision prior to the time we have to pass this budget because it's not going to do much good afterwards, people making decisions on the schedule. Because this is a black and white line for me. I can't go home back to my District and say, you know, I voted for a City budget that not only discriminates when it was intended initially not to discriminate; it is a fact that it discriminates. Everyone's aware of it now. I know there's been meetings, led by Councilman Ramos, Councilwoman Brown. And they've got the right people in the room to go over this. 21 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 But I just want the Administration and the School District particularly to know how important many Council members -- There are a whole lot of issues in this budget, but this is one that just goes against the grain of everything I come down here to serve Council for. So if you could at least put that time line on it, I'd appreciate it. Thank you.
Thank you. Councilwoman Tasco, and then Councilman Rizzo.
Are the charter schools requested to have to put up money for the scholarship program, contribute?
So would the parochial schools, would the Archdiocese, be required to come up with dollars for the scholarship program?
Well, when we had 22 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 discussed the different models, certainly the model of the program as it's currently structured is that the City would put up a share of the funding for this, and the School District on behalf of its students, public school students, would also be putting up a share, you know, a matching -- not an equal matching; in fact, a greater proportion of the dollars. So that if we held to that model, what is in effect a cost-sharing model, certainly we would have liked to see and would still like to see some type of cost-sharing also between the City and any other school provider, whether it's parochial schools or other non-public schools. So that certainly one of the options, and frankly the option that the Administration had preferred. You know, whether or not that can happen, you know, remains a question.
Is that one of the... Is that part of the discussion 23 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 going on with the Archdiocese now, in terms of their contribution?
It is part of the discussion. It is not -- not the only discussion.
Thank you. Councilman... Okay. Are your questions related to education? UNIDENTIFIED
All right. Then we'll come back. Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to go on record also. This is very difficult issue to try to explain to my constituents, our constituents, that a program could even be devised that would exclude, like Councilwoman Krajewski said, parents that are struggling to send their kids to other than public schools and not be included in this program. 24 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 So, I want to go on record also. I'm having a difficult time understanding how we could even introduce something like this that wouldn't be all-inclusive. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you very much. Councilwoman Krajewski, of course, a point of information.
I understand that the School District is given 6 million, is that right, for this program?
Okay. Has the Archdiocese ever been asked to participate in it, as far as -- as well as the School District? Did anyone contact the Archdiocese about becoming part of this program?
Do you mean to make -- As we sit here, I said we have had discussions -- 25 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04
No one has been in touch with the Archdiocese; is that true?
It was my impression that they were never asked, as far as I was concerned.
Okay. I'll be back again with them again this afternoon. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to reiterate some thoughts and some information that I've shared before here at these committee hearings concerning the subject of the core scholarship. I initiated a meeting about six, Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 seven weeks ago, where I called, asked the Archdiocese, Congressman Fattah, Debra Kahn, a prominent business leader and myself to talk about this issue. It was agreed at that meeting that particularly the Archdiocese, and the City, and the Congressman, and myself would continue to find a way to make this work for all the kids in Philadelphia. A number of proposals have been presented. One proposal that the Archdiocese at this time cannot accept is their contribution to this fund. And they explained, to my satisfaction, their fiscal situation which would prevent them at this time, because of the closing of schools, the competition with the charter schools, and the neighborhoods of parochial schools, that they would not be able to contribute to this funding. It is my -- I share the same concern that my colleague, Brian O'Neill, shares that I prefer, which is why I took the 27 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 initiative that this not come up for a vote. I think this stands to be very divisive. And this is a City Council that works toward having unity within this body. And to that end, I continue to be involved, and all parties, Councilwoman Krajewski, are involved in trying to find a way to make this work. And the way it should work is that the parochial school students and other students, besides the parochial school students outside of the public school system, are included as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Miss Kahn, let me ask a couple background questions first. The testimony makes reference to a new non-profit organization, College Opportunity Resources 28 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 for Education Philadelphia, also known COREP. When was this created?
We're in the midst of creating... you know, filing the necessary papers.
Okay. And how will it function or operate or who will run it? What... It's a...
First of all, the function of that organization is really supposed to be the vehicle through which the private fund raising can occur. And so, as I said earlier, the Congressman has taken on the challenge of raising sufficient private funds so that going forward the scholarship program will be able to be funded in perpetuity with private funds.
Right. No; I understand. And I certainly want to preface my comments by saying I support the goal and the idea. But as has been expressed earlier, there are a number of us asking the 29 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 question. So, you're in the process of establishing the non-profit. So I guess at the moment who is going to run the program, who administers the funds, who decides who gets the scholarship?
There have been administrative funds that were secured by the Sallie Mae foundation and by the Congressman, so all the public scholarship dollars right now, whether it's the City's contribution or the School District's contribution, would be going -- 100 percent of those funds would be going to support the actual college scholarships themselves. And those dollars, the administrative dollars, are being used to contract with the Philadelphia Education Fund which currently runs a scholarship program for a certain number of high schools, and a very similar type of scholarship program. So it was thought that because they had the experience -- 30 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04
All right. So they're going to provide administrative support?
Okay. Who's actually going to decide which individuals get a scholarship and where does the City's $4 million go? Who's that get transferred to?
The... First of all, I mean, the way the program operates, as long as the student meets the eligibility criteria. So it's not like a competitive scholarship program, the way some other programs are. As long as the student meets the eligibility criteria of, of course, 31 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 graduating from high school, and then being admitted into one of the eligible colleges, then that student would be awarded a scholarship.
And regardless of the number, I guess, you know, we'd like to be in this kind of situation, but I mean, it sounds like as long as you're eligible, going to one of the schools and meet all the other criteria, anyone who applies would get a scholarship --
-- and it's up to $3,000, and it is dependent upon circumstances. So each student, for example, needs to also complete -- each applicant also needs to complete a financial aid form. And so, you know -- 32 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04
And you have to get whatever financial aid package might be forthcoming from the state --
There is going to be -- And we have not... In discussion right now, the exact methodology is that is being used. The Philadelphia Education Fund does, in fact, as I said, award these scholarships, and is used to doing this kind of packaging. And so there is the discussion under way. We're reviewing the criteria that 33 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 they use now, sort of the formula, the approach that they use. And -- And we are discussing that now. And then, once the parties that are involved in funding this, you know, are comfortable with that approach, then they will, the Education Fund, would actually end up awarding the packages, according to the methodology that's agreed upon.
And is the City's $4 million, is that going to be transferred to the Philadelphia Education Fund?
Yeah. We have not established the actual mechanism for that yet, but it is anticipated that when, on a twice a year basis, because this is done on a semester-by-semester basis. On a twice-a-year basis the Education Fund would notify both the City and the School District as to what the anticipated need is. And then the City and the School District would in turn, you know, provide 34 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 those dollars so that the Education Fund could actually issue the checks to the respective colleges and students.
So you're saying at some point there would be a transfer of City dollars to PEF.
Correct, solely for the purpose of issuing the scholarship checks.
Okay. And would that be done as a grant directly from the Mayor's Office to PEF? Do you have to come back and do a transfer ordinance? I'm trying to understand the mechanics.
I don't think that it would need a transfer ordinance, but we're still looking at, you know, the various... what the contractual, you know, options would be.
When do you expect to be able to award scholarships? The application deadline is May 28th; do I understand that?
No. It's actually April 35 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 15th, unless it's been changed. And I'm not aware of that, but I thought that it was April 15th. But the scholarship checks really don't typically go to the colleges until August and September, until after all the enrollment is done, you know, for the fall semester. So none of the dollars were contemplated being needed before Fiscal Year '05.
I thought that the application deadline within the public schools -- And we had moved it back a couple of times, to make sure that we get maximum participation -- was now set at April 15th. And once those applications are coming in to various counselors at all of 36 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 the high schools, and to the School District's High School Office, they are then reviewing all the folders, to make sure the information is complete; and, you know, if any additional information is needed they'll get back to students. And then those folders in turn and those applications would be turned over to the Education Fund.
Okay. How many graduates from Philadelphia public schools -- We'll just have that discussion for the moment. How many graduates of Philadelphia public schools went to college last year?
You know, one of the things that we're very hopeful that the scholarship will do is to be able to provide us with better data than we have now, because none of us have been really very, very comfortable with it. And I know I should have those numbers with me, but I don't. But I think that the last seven numbers -- and I don't 37 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 think they are last year's that I looked at -- showed that it was something about... And I'm sure -- Maybe about 3,000 students, something maybe in that ballpark, maybe a little less than that.
Well, how many students graduated from high school last year?
You know, again, something about eight or nine thousand. I don't have the exact numbers. But what we have always --
How many students are in high school? How many students are in high school right now? (Ms. Kahn began speaking simultaneously with Councilman Nutter, not reportable.)
-- seniors right now. I think about 40, 50,000. Something like that. The graduating class, when we look at the seniors, is roughly about 9,000.
What's the current census at the District? Is it 212, 38 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 220? How many students -- (Ms. Kahn began speaking simultaneously with Councilman Nutter, not reportable.)
And you're saying that there were 450,000 seniors -- I mean -- I'm sorry -- Take that back -- 450,000 high school students.
And we think that there were eight to nine thousand graduates, but you're not sure.
That's what I said. I can confirm those numbers. 39 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04
I can check my file. I just don't recall the numbers. And rather than give you incorrect numbers, I'd rather check the information that I have.
Well, all right. How many do you think did not go to college because of financial problems?
The research and the experience tells us -- and while I can't know it exactly, that that number can be substantial -- But even more than the financial problems, the issue is really one of being able to increase expectations and create a college-going culture, and atmosphere, and expectation, and opportunity on the part of our students and many, many other urban students across the country. So that, again, another really driver for putting this program in place was, in addition to trying to provide additional dollars, it was really a way to 40 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 provide motivation, and expectation, and opportunity, and send a message loud and clear that there can be a future for you...
Sure. And I agree with that, but... And I mean, and you're saying that the missing piece here or that last driving piece is to also let the students know that there would be up to $3,000 of... I think it's been characterized as this is last... Is this also considered last-dollar money? I mean, you already have to... I'm assuming you have to apply to college, get accepted to college, fill out a financial aid package to college. And then if you come up short or think you might come up short, then you apply to this program, right?
Yeah. We are encouraging every student who's applying to one of the 41 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 eligible colleges. Number one, they are required to, yes, fill out the financial aid forms.
But two, they should also be at the same time filling out the application for the core scholarship.
Okay. And then I guess lastly, I mean, we are actively, with or without the program, trying to encourage students to further their education and desire to go to college. I mean, that doesn't start in 11th grade, does it?
No. That's exactly correct. And a lot of what's happening and been happening in the School Districts is to create that culture earlier and earlier. That's why... I mean, the fact that here our program that Congressman Fattah authored and that is now, you know, certainly gone national, starts lower and lower.
And making those opportunities and experiences available for younger students.
I understand. And do you have any information with regard to how many students who graduated last year, who went to college, found themselves short, somewhere in the neighborhood of up to $3,000?
I don't have any specific information on that. Again, we do have, I mean, a couple of things. One is the experience of the Last Dollar Scholarship Program, the Philadelphia Scholars. And we know that those students come in the eligible high schools, and certainly had gaps in their financing.
I also know, and I have first-hand experience, having learned at Philadelphia Futures, the college program 43 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 there, that that freshman year in college, which is right now all the scholarship program is geared towards, is really critical. And to the extent that the financial obligations...
...on the part of students can really be minimized, which either means they have to put in less work or, frankly, less worry about how, you know, the gaps would be closed to pay their bills. That means they can devote more attention to their studies, because if they get through the first year, there's much more likelihood that they'll be able to actually graduate.
No; I understand what you're saying. And certainly as a beneficiary of college financial aid, I mean, I certainly have a deep personal appreciation or understanding of the need to have those dollars available. 44 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 I probably could still pay a lot more attention when I was in college to what was going on, as opposed to some other things I was doing, but we'll put that aside for the moment. The core... And I would also thank Councilwoman Reynolds Brown for the information and the fact sheet this morning. I was interested to know a couple items. One, it makes reference to the other scholarship programs that we have. There's the Mayor's Scholarship. Now, is that the University of Pennsylvania?
The Philadelphia Scholars Last Dollar Scholarship. I think that's the program you made reference to with regard to PEF?
Education Fund. And The City of Philadelphia Scholarship, which is not the University of 45 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 Pennsylvania Scholarship but just a general scholarship program that the City has. We've had that one for a long time, right?
Right. I just want to make clear because Philadelphia Scholars is not funded in any way by the City.
The fact sheet is trying to tell you that just because you apply to any one of these, you still apply to the program under question. Now, do any of those three programs have... And I understand that -- So why don't we take the Last Dollar Scholar Program out of this question. But the Mayor's Scholarship and The City of Philadelphia Scholarship Program, do they have any restriction with regard to what school system the young person may be graduating from, in terms of eligibility?
The City Scholarship does not. I don't believe the Mayor's 46 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 Scholarship does either. But of course, the Mayor's Scholarship is only for students who are admitted to the University of Pennsylvania.
Right. No; I understand that. That's from a previous agreement between the City and the University. And can you tell us the nature of... And maybe it was just the participants' as you phrased it, determination. How many students went to the schools that are 14 listed for use by the core scholarship last 15 year? 16
Again, I don't have the 17 exact number, but it is -- But of all the 18 colleges to which our students do go, those 19 publicly funded schools represent the lion's share of the schools that our graduates from public schools attend.
Okay. I guess 47 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 the last question on this -- And I know you're going to get us some additional information about it -- is for the City portion of this, the $4 million, how would you explain or justify to a non-public school Philadelphia tax-paying person that their child would not be eligible for a City of Philadelphia taxpayer-funded scholarship?
Well, again, I think that what we need to do is start from the premise and understand the origin of it, that the intent was really not to exclude anyone. It was really about trying to include the largest population, that -- that needs to significantly increase college-going rates which benefits not just --
No; I understand what you're saying, and I understand the intent. I'm asking for an explanation to the person who is a taxpayer who, for whatever reason, and that was their right and that was their decision, to send their child to some other school system. But now they're moving on. They're moving out of elementary or secondary education. They're not tied to any system. Their tax dollars are helping to fund a program that, at least at the moment, they can't participate in it. I would like to understand the justification for that, putting aside what the intention is. It's a more than appropriate intention to try to increase college attendance by graduates of any system and certainly our public school system, but I think there's a taxpayer issue here. 49 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04
I think that taxpayers in this City and certainly other jurisdictions across the country make contributions, if we can refer to tax dollars that way...
I don't think any of us would consider taxes to be a contribution.
A contribution is -- Right. That's, I guess, something in the mail. I decide to, I decide not to send a check to some organization. That's a contribution.
The City of Philadelphia takes what it wants every two weeks out of my paycheck, whether I want to or not.
And it does for the other million or so people who work here.
But what I meant was, when we pay our taxes, those taxes are used for a variety of reasons. And we don't always have a direct say in the different places that they go.
They're used for a variety of reasons, to pick up the trash or people who work wherever they work and send their kids wherever they send them. We send the Police Department to their house when they call 911. We actually... I mean, the public school system provides services to non-public school students. This is... I am asking how would you -- How do you explain on a street... I have a District Office in Wynnefield. So, I'd like you to explain: When the parent down the street from my office calls about this program, and their child goes to Overbrook, and I give them an 51 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 application; and two minutes later the parent comes in whose child goes to Our Lady of Victory and I tell them that you're not eligible, what's the explanation? What's the justification for that to a taxpayer?
I think there are two things I would say to them. One is that there are a variety of purposes to which tax dollars go, from which every single resident, every single taxpayer is not a direct beneficiary, number one. And number two, I think that, and I actually believe one of the newspapers referred to this that way.
I'm sorry to cut across you; but, one, I think we would be hard pressed to show many examples of that; and second, most of them are probably based on either state or federal guidelines regarding income eligibility, not whether you go to a public school system or non-public school system for any City service. 52 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 Can you tell me any other service that makes that distinction, that this City government provides?
I'm not familiar with every City program, but there are some services.
For example... Well, yeah. I mean, for example, you know certain organizations that might be funded through City tax dollars, somebody may not be a direct user or direct participant in some of those activities.
But I think for the particular point here, I mean, in terms of the scholarship program, I believe that, you know, another point is that anybody is free to be involved in public schools. And to the extent that this program could be looked at as a benefit, as a reward, as even -- and I do believe one newspaper referred to this as the public 53 Bill 040255 - 4/13/04 school advantage, a way of looking at this program as, again, another benefit, another opportunity that a student gets who chooses to attend public school. And I combine that with --
I hear what you're saying, but you only get the benefit after you've been a graduate. So you're not in public school any more.