PIDC. I'm sorry. We have Terry Gillen here from the RDA. We'll call her first. I'm sorry, Peter. I know what time the game starts. (Witness approached witness table.)
Good afternoon, Ms. Gillen. Please state your name for the record.
Thanks. My name is Terry Gillen. I'm the Senior Advisor to the Mayor and the Executive Director of the Redevelopment Authority.
Councilman 150 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. Green.
Thank you. Thank you very much, Terry, for coming. Perhaps you could just -- you provided us with some documentation. A lot of the documentation we've requested has not been provided. You and I have discussed that on the phone. For the record, I just would like you to talk about what's going on there, the internal audit and other things, that will delay the provision of that documentation, and then ask when we can sort of expect to start getting things again.
Sure. Certainly. As you may know, this Administration didn't get control of the RDA Board until May because of the nature of the staggered terms on the Board. So the Mayor asked me to take my position, I think it was, early June. Around that time, we began the process of an audit. That's now being conducted by the 151 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. Controller's Office, but is being managed by the Finance Director. That is looking into the spending of NTI bond proceeds, because we believe that proceeds were not spent properly. That's probably the clearest way I can put it. There are different bond proceed pots, and we're not sure that they were spent from the right pots. So that's what the audit is doing. In addition, City Council asked for their own audit of NTI bond proceeds and, in particular, they asked that the Controller look at ten pots that apparently in the previous Administration were set aside for Councilmembers, and Councilmembers have asked for us to look and see -- or for the Controller to look and see whether those pots are being spent in accordance with Council's expectations. So we're combining those two audits, and, frankly, the process is taking a lot of staff time at the RDA. 152 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. So just the preparation of the materials for the auditors is taking a lot of staff time. We don't have a huge finance staff, and they're spending a lot of time getting the materials together. We're making progress. My hope is that -- I think we had initially hoped that we would have the audits done by now. That was optimistic. I think we're looking now at November. So we're looking at a lot of staff time being devoted to that between now and November. So because of that and, in addition, Councilman Green had asked us to provide him with some information about redevelopment agreements that had lapsed, and we're in the process of now going back and trying to go back and look at all the old redevelopment agreements, which I can tell you is a nightmare because of the way documents and records are kept at the RDA. So we're in the process of answering the Councilman's request for the redevelopment information 153 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. as well. So when this request came, as Councilman Green indicated, we agreed that we would provide any information that we could provide immediately and some of -- budgets, Board minutes, audited financials, things like that. So we sent over a packet of materials within the time allotted and then said that the other materials are probably going to have to wait until the audit is done. So we're looking at late fall to provide the other materials. I'm not saying that we can provide everything to you. There are some things that we simply don't have, but we'll lay all of that out in correspondence with you.
Thank you. I think we will -- with respect to development agreements, there were some specific questions that I had after I got the initial list from you, and, that is, I'm very interested in whether 154 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. or not any were re-upped -- I don't know what the right word is.
Renewed, re- granted or granted anew to the same person or a different person, and I assume that list is on the same kind of timeline?
I think that request, which I think came in about ten days ago, I think we can get together probably sooner than three months. So I'm hopeful that we can get it to you sooner than that.
Because the further back we have to go in the record world, the harder. And I think your request may have been -- I forget, but it was a relatively short time period. So I think we can do it.
Right. It was since April 25th, the date of our 155 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. original letter.
And I hope our initial request caught everything we were looking for, but it may not have, because we used the term "development agreements" and I have since learned that options are granted, which may not have been considered development agreements and there are other interests in land that were granted that capture what I was trying to capture, but can't be captured within the term of "development agreements." So we may supplement our request for that measure. I have no more questions.
PIDC, please. 156 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
Does the PIDC have any policies regarding conflicts of interest? And before you answer that, I'd like to explain what I'm referring to. There's a lot of public dollars that flow through the PIDC. If someone wants to do business with the City of Philadelphia, if, say, for example, it's a member of Council, a member of Council who had any kind of interest, even a relative involved, would be required to disclose that fact, abstain from acting on the matter or being involved in the matter in any way, et cetera. We have ethical rules that go beyond that that are by ordinance and in the Charter. Does the PIDC have any guidelines with respect to conflicts of interest?
Certainly the practice is pretty much as you described 157 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. it, which is over the many, many years where we have Board members who are inevitably --
Not just Board members. I mean among the staff. Do you have any policies regarding conflict of interest, written policies?
Within our personnel manual, there is an ethics policy that pertains to employees, and there's also a Board policy, which I think Peter will explain. But, yes, we do.
And the Board would be a letter that we provide to the Board members when they become Board members and letters that they send to both the State and the City ethics offices declaring their membership, and then as individual conflicts occur, they provide individual letters that deal with that and recuse themselves from any 158 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. action. That's at the Board level. And at the employee level, it's essentially the same.
Your loan policy guidelines state, Conflicts of interest between officers, employees, directors and the related interests -- must be related persons probably -- and customers will be avoided, but it doesn't define conflict of interest. Do you have any definition of conflict of interest in your policies? What is your definition of conflict of interest?
I believe our personnel policy has a definition, but I don't have it with me, so I'll have to take a look at that.
Yeah. And I'll do the same at the Board level. It's not on the top of my head, so let me look into that. 159 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC.
We do at the Board level and I guess at the personnel level as well. But at the Board level, we have a form letter that is submitted to our Board each time there's a conflict, and then at the meeting itself, the individual recuses themselves, and that's in the minutes.
So that document, the conflict form, will be available for us?
I'm not requesting it at this time. You keep that in your records? Are they kept with the minutes?
I believe they're in a separate file. Once again, there's a city -- there's a filing with the City and a filing with the State that would obviously be counterparts to those 160 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. documents, but we certainly have them and --
Every time there's -- regardless of the program, the policy is to file it with the City and State?
Is there any screening to determine potential conflicts or is it you're relying on people to disclose the conflict themselves?
Yes. I mean, I think it's voluntary, although presumably there's judgment being passed all the time as to what's a conflict versus one that may not be recognized.
When approached by a business owner or individual looking for a loan or grant, what is the procedure for processing them? What information do you collect? 161 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC.
Basically, we have our initial contact that defines the very earliest phases of a project, and then depending on the sort of underwriting -- or I should say the preliminary structuring of the transaction and identification of the specific financing programs that are going to be necessary, there is usually an application form that relates to each of those programs. That's filled out and the related information is provided.
So with respect to loans or grants, there's an intake form essentially?
That describes the type of project, project description, cost, sources of financing, revenue sources, employment creation characteristics, timing, development 162 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. schedule, et cetera?
Those are all the logical ones. I don't know the forms that well.
And there's financial due diligence -- this is according to your guidelines.
Project evaluation, commitment letter, then loan, et cetera. When approached by a business owner or an individual interested in a parcel of property that is under your control, what is your procedure for processing a request for an interest in a parcel of property?
I mean, we -- it, once again, depends on the specific parcel in part. So that if you wanted to simplify our land sales process, it kind of breaks down into three areas. One would be the industrial parks. They're all on the website. And so typically 163 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. when a broker or a potential user comes to us, it's pretty well defined what they want, and they sit down -- they are usually involved with one of our client people. They sit down initially with the client person and then they bring in the real estate person that would be responsible for that particular piece of the portfolio, and a discussion would occur, which would, in theory, as it progresses go through usually a reservation phase where it's not quite an option, but we're agreeing not to actually market the property to anyone else, and then that would move into either an option or an actual agreement of sale.
Okay. So with respect to the reservation phase, would there be documentation in your records about who properties are reserved for?
And who they 164 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. were reserved for in the past, whether or not they actually accepted the reservation --
What about inquiries for property? Like you have intake forms for loan applications. What about when people just want to -- somebody calls -- let's just say somebody calls about a property that has a reservation. What do you do with that call?
I mean, once again, this is a little bit the conversation we had about the pipeline generally. If it's very preliminary and not anything that seems all that serious or credible, it may end there. If it reaches that --
What does that mean, it ends there? 165 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC.
It means that the individual is probably told that there's nothing available for their need, is what I mean by ending. If it is something that is more substantive and credible, then it probably enters the pipeline and then goes through the process I described.
What is the pipeline? Is there an intake form for somebody interested in looking for a parcel, like you have for loans and grants?
It's probably not as structured. It would be more a conversation that would at some point culminate, in the real estate business, looking at the property, our providing specific information, much of which is on our website for the industrial land, and then it would culminate in a serious discussion with the reservation agreement.
Right. I 166 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. have run sales, business development organizations in the past, and I think in private industry and in every real estate firm in the country, brokers, when they get calls, have to log them into a database about a property so that you'll know who was interested in a specific property at a specific time. What I hear you saying is that you do not do that. So that if somebody has a reservation for a property, they're told no, that's reserved, or that's currently under option for somebody else, there's no record of that, so that when that property is not accepted, you can't go back to the people who were otherwise interested; is that correct?
Well, not really. I mean, I think we're maybe misunderstanding each other in terms of exactly where a particular prospect enters the pipeline. I mean, I would sort of say if it's considered a live prospect and although the individual 167 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. discussion didn't really identify a need but there's a continuing need that we're confident is real and can be met, at that point we'll go into the pipeline, probably be in Portfol, our overall client tracking system, and I would say it's very much part of the kind of list that you're describing. I think there is a point before that where it doesn't happen, where a determination is made we can't meet the need.
Well, it occurs at various levels. It can occur sort of in the field or it can occur at a relatively high level, just depending on what the discussion is.
So there's no policy regarding inquiries about properties and what has to be brought up the food chain, so to speak, versus what the field guy needs to record for --
I'm not sure 168 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. there's a formal policy. I mean, I would have -- I guess my management style involves a lot of delegation and a lot of sort of empowerment of our individuals, and to the degree that I'm confident that they're doing a good job, the fact that they would make essentially a negative decision that I would not be able to actually see at a low level is something I'm generally very comfortable with.
But there's no way to go back and check? If they've made a decision in the field that's no, there's no intake form, there's no --
Well, I mean, there's a schedule. There's a contact point, I guess, at some point that can be maintained.
But there's no contact database where when somebody gets a call about a property, they're required to put it in the database?
Once again, if it's a level of seriousness -- 169 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC.
Every first call, absolutely not. We get a whole lot of them and --
Well, you couldn't know, because you don't have a record of them. You don't record them.
Perhaps I don't. I mean, we close 150 transactions a year. We close land deals a year. 17 So if it's five times that, that would be 18 probably within the realm. But you're 19 right, I don't know. 20
And so, as you know, I am aware of -- rather than getting into the details of them today, hopefully we can get into them later, but I'm aware of many inquiries about properties that I've discussed with you 170 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. in the past where the person inquiring was told by a field person the property is not available, the property is actually owned by somebody other than PIDC, all things which turned out not to be correct. They certainly weren't told that there's a reservation on them. And I've asked you for specific data about those inquiries, and the response I received is that you do not maintain a log, historical risk record of information regarding available properties. And so what I want to -- I mean, I'm going to have some specific things that I come back to. Companies that, by my calculation, just of things that I'm aware of, the City of Philadelphia has lost three to four hundred jobs to New Jersey or Bucks County for properties that have been requested by industrial corporations who were looking to locate into a KOIZ that you have no record of the initial 171 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. inquiry, and that is very, very troubling to me.
Well, I'm sure there's ways that we could improve our system of intake, and I appreciate your recommendations. This is a conversation you and I have had in the past, and I guess I'm not totally sure that I understand why you won't simply tell us the names so we can tell you what happened, because I can't identify the situations that you're describing based on the description. With a name I can, and I would be happy to tell you.
I have given you the name, but we'll take this off line.
So part of your response was, PIDC receives numerous confidential and sometimes anonymous inquiries on a regular basis, and so that for that reason, you also can't provide 172 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. the information. Just with respect to the confidentiality, are you claiming a legal privilege or are you party to a confidentiality agreement?
No. I think essentially one of the basic points that applies to our business is, to the degree that we are engaged in business discussions with private clients who have certain information related to their financial condition or their business plans or their competitive situation, that is not something they really want shared publicly in this forum or any --
No, no. I would say it applies to everything. When we're in the discussion stage or the negotiation stage of a transaction with a 173 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. company that may have a competitor that would benefit from learning that they're planning an expansion or looking at financing or planning on buying land, that this would be damaging to that company, and it's the confidence that we have with those companies that enable us to be effective. That's why PIDC was created in the first place.
And I guess I kind of consider the inquiry -- when somebody is inquiring, they haven't done a transaction with us and they would not want it known in public, I believe. That's our interpretation.
So is it your testimony that you don't have the information or that you're keeping it 174 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. confidential?
Well, we've already spent about minutes discussing 5 where we start our pipeline. And we have 6 a pipeline, and it's something we can 7 certainly discuss, but it's in the 8 context of a very private process that 9 we're uncomfortable sharing with the 10 public. 11
So you don't 12 have the data or you're keeping it 13 confidential? 14
No, no. We 15 have the data. We can share it with you on a somewhat confidential basis, but please understand the delicate nature of it. That's really all I'm trying to say.
Do you conduct any market analysis regarding land use or development of the properties that you own?
We're, with the Commerce Department and the Planning Commission, now in the midst of a 175 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. comprehensive industrial land study to essentially identify the existing inventory and the demand and obviously trying to use that as a basis to guide ongoing zoning and land planning as it relates to industrial in an environment where there's inevitably a lot of competition from residential and retail type uses. So I would say that's an example of yes, we do.
Yeah. A strategic plan was -- a master plan was produced in 2004.
There is a master plan that describes uses that aren't currently permitted on that property, residential, et cetera. Is there any sort of strategic plan with respect to the Navy Yard itself? In other words, I'm talking about a business plan that says, This is how we're going to sell the property, this is how much we 176 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. expect to get for the property, this is ultimately, after we finally dispose of it, what it's going to look like and based on sort of what a private developer would do if they owned a thousand acres, how would they maximize the profits? You'd have to obviously take into account your other mission, which is economic development and job creation, but is there any plan that says at the end of this tunnel, this is what we'll have created?
Not, I think, in the very specific terms that you're looking for, and I think -- obviously there's a land use plan and there was zoning that followed that and there is an understanding, as I've described earlier, that any sort of cash flow would be reinvested in the property until 2025. But the kind of plan that you're describing we do not have.
Right. Other than PIDC will keep all proceeds of 177 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. everything that you sell --
But, one, in accordance with a requirement of a document and, two, given a $300 or $400 million price tag, it seems to be a pretty logical assumption. But the plan portion we do not have.
You're going to provide documentation on the price tag. What do you think would happen if we put the thousand acres at the Navy Yard -- or I should say, what do you think would have happened two months ago if we put the thousand acres at the Navy Yard out for RFQ/RFP for sale to a single or multiple developers? Do you think that land would have a positive value?
I don't, no. 24 Once again, I've made the point that this nut of infrastructure and demolition is 178 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. such and lack of utilities, for example, is such a compelling number, that I think that would have to be dramatically discounted from the price. Having said that, obviously the Navy Yard -- we talk about a thousand acres. Fifty percent of it is the industrial portion, which is essentially developed, and we went through a bid process, selected Liberty Property Trust and they're developing 70 acres, which is committed. And so basically we're really not talking about a thousand left to be developed. We're in conversations with the Port about their taking another sort of hundred acres at the far eastern end to support the south port project that they have. So the undeveloped portion is really much closer to 200 acres. Would that, without any improvements or utilities, command a positive price? I don't believe so.
You've talked about the $300 million in 179 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. infrastructure, having spent 90 million already. I notice that -- I can't remember the exact number, but there have been $40 or $60 million in essentially State money given to PIDC for infrastructure in the Navy Yard?
I'm not sure I follow you, but the 90 million includes million of funds that we borrowed from 11 the Commonwealth Financing Authority, 12 which is a State authority. 13
Eighteen. And 15 we're constantly talking to the State 16 about additional support. So I hope 17 there's more, but that's the real 18 fundamental point.
And then the other kind of major slug of capital that we are in the process of mobilizing is the New River City city money coming from the Water Department, and that's $60 180 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. million. So that may be what you're referring to?
And when you -- yes, I suppose that is the money I'm referring to. So all told, you've received $80 million. Have you spent all of that money?
No, no. The is probably two-thirds spent and we're 11 in the process, and that's roads and 12 infrastructure within the historic core. 13 The 60 million is being programmed right 14 now and will probably be bid fairly soon, 15 and that is, as you probably know, in 16 accordance with that program and that 17 release of the Water Fund funds to be 18 focused on water and sewer improvements in the Navy Yard that will then, when completed, be conveyed to the Water Department. So it will be owned by the City.
Right. How can you spend $60 million on water and sewer improvements when there's no 181 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. strategic plan for the end game?
Well, no. I think there's a very strategic master plan as it relates to the uses of the land and the underlying requirement for the infrastructure to support that use and --
In addition to the water and sewer infrastructure, what makes up the rest of the 300 million that is the estimate for infrastructure investment? Does that include actual build-out?
No, no, no. 16 No. That's really just the infrastructure that relates to the road systems, the utilities, a lot of demolition, a little bit of environmental to basically make the rest of the site available for development. And you've asked for some detail, and we'll provide it.
Okay. In 2008, after some of our discussions, I 182 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. note that you issued an RFP for an industrial market analysis. When was the last market analysis performed?
I'm not aware. I mean, it preceded my arrival here in 2001.
You've testified that much of what you're doing is going to go to 2025, even beyond that, et cetera. You've also testified that the Administration really drives what the plan is for the PIDC. Does that mean that every four or eight years the priorities change so that we don't have a comprehensive strategic plan for economic development and job growth in the City because it's subject to the whims of a new administration?
Or plans, hopes, aspirations. 183 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC.
I think the concept of the plan and the underlying priorities and the policies inevitably gets adjusted every four or eight years. I mean, you all deal with that constantly on every front.
Do you think that that is helpful to economic development or do you think that that hinders our ability to plan? Could that explain why there is no strategic business plan like I discussed?
I think it's an inevitable tradeoff of a governmental system where every four years there's a little bit of a turnover. But I guess I would emphasize that one of PIDC's roles has been in the implementation of these policies with the specific transactions and projects, that those projects that go beyond the four-year limits get finished.
Not taking sides in that debate or discussion as much as a simple question. How many of 184 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. your lending programs in particular but other programs in general actually are created with local regulation as opposed to with state and federal regulations?
How many of your programs, particularly loan programs, but programs specifically, but other programs in general, actually were created with local regulations as opposed to there actually being state and federal programs that come with their own regulations?
I think most of the programs we have have at their base federal regulations or state regulations, and the City, in asking us to be the steward of those dollars, passes along those regulations and then obviously adds some of their own in terms of --
In terms of 185 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. strategy?
That becomes an interesting discussion relating to what the Councilman was asking in terms of on one hand the majority of your programs, if not almost all of them, actually come with state and federal regulations, and so not much is actually determined locally, but at the same time, if that is true, then how does an administration actually put a stamp on what they want PIDC to be for the next four or eight years?
I mean, I think part of the answer is, they put together a strategic plan that tries to establish the priorities and policies and addresses that in a document, and part of it is, they put some money there.
They put some money there, but if the majority of your programs come from state and federal 186 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. dollars and, therefore, come with state and federal regulations, how does an administration actually put their stamp on those programs?
Well, the regulations that normally come have to do with minority hiring, things like that. They don't specify the industries we can lend to or so forth. So a given administration may have a preference for a particular industry sector, and to the extent that we can use those loan dollars to fulfill that, it's certainly something we can do. Again --
But they come with different types of regulations also, like the cost per job created and --
So those are state and federal regulations that are built in.
Yes. We have to be 187 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. mindful of those, yes, sir.
So my question is, aside from you said in terms of identifying industries that a given administration may want to target, what other ways can an administration actually put their stamp on PIDC if the majority of money and regulations are driven by state and federal government?
I mean, we spent a little bit of time this morning talking about Redevelopment Assistance Capital Program and the influence that a Mayor would have on the Governor's sense of priorities. Maybe that's a case in point. The Councilman was talking about how Council can influence the Mayor in terms of his sense of priorities there. But that would be an example, I guess.
So let me just take the next step, beaming it up. 188 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. I intended to do that. So to some extent, regardless of who the Mayor is and/or who the Commerce Director is, if there's certain things they want done but they don't fit the programs that are driven by state and federal regulations, you can simply say, Can't do it?
And beyond that, the extent to which a significant amount of your clientele are repeat clientele, then the state and federal programs simply run the way they run regardless of who the Mayor and Commerce Director happens to be?
Yeah. I mean, I kind of do think it comes down to where the funding comes from, and to the degree that we're limited to these existing older programs, I think you're right. To the degree that we have tried to be -- we on behalf of the City have tried to be 189 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. more entrepreneurial in terms of identifying new funding sources, like the Emerging Loan Program or from the City's standpoint like the cultural and commercial corridors, focus money, real money, into priority areas, that's where the City can have a whole lot of effect. And I think our initiative has been what are the private funding sources with the bond pool and with new market tax credits and Emerging Loan Program, where we're looking at private funding sources that aren't limited by these federal and state regulations.
Thank you. I'm about to wrap up. So I think your testimony earlier basically established that a large part of the decisions about who is going to get the loan, who is going to get the piece of land can be decided at the staff level. 190 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. Once someone gets through an initial pipeline, that's when someone like you might get involved, that there is interaction between elected officials, not on the PIDC Board and other places, at the staff level in terms of providing a constituent service, let's say, to promote a particular project, and that then a decision is made about what to recommend to the Board. How many times --
Sorry. How many times has the Board rejected a recommendation of the staff?
Never that I've been there. And where -- I apologize. I was going to -- I didn't mean to interrupt, but in all of these, you've heard it now a few times, that process that you just described that included the staff and kind of worked its way up to the Board has almost throughout input from the City. So nothing we do in 191 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. these transactions are done without the knowledge of the City.
Well, at a certain level, that becomes true. But in terms of --
I'm saying, at a certain level, that becomes true, yes.
To your point, if I may, about how often has the Board rejected one of these, in our process there is a Loan Committee, and the members of that Loan Committee are Board members. So they see it at the development level along with the staff. So when it comes to the Board, it comes with the recommendation of the Loan Committee, again, who are Board members.
And the Loan Committee regularly rejects recommendations from the staff or adjusts them.
Who is on the Loan Committee? 192 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC.
And, once again, that would apply to loans, not to property disposition or any other of your activities?
Yes. It would be Jim McManus; Sal Patti, who is a banker at PNC; Bill 12 Sautter; and a non-Board member, Joe Houldin, who runs DVIRC. I think I've got it right.
And, once again, to the degree, as I indicated, that the Executive Committee meets every two weeks and there are loan recommendations to that committee, there has been a Loan Committee the previous week.
Okay. So other than loans, how does a property disposition, say, get to the Board level? 193 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC.
No. I mean, it comes up through the client and the real estate group essentially to me, and then I take it directly to the Board.
One specific question. I think you mentioned to me when we had lunch that there was a study regarding the solar panel site, a market study, some kind of land use study, and apparently it was a property that required a lot of remediation, and you were going to provide that study to me.
I apologize. I didn't remember that. We certainly can. That's up to an eight acre site that was formerly a landfill and an incinerator site at the Navy. Our experience was that it was environmentally challenged to the degree that it really didn't have sort of a full market use, and on that basis, when Epuron, which is the operator of this solar field, approached us --
I'm not 194 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. asking about the specific. Is there a written study that --
I believe there's some kind of environmental study that supports what I just said. I mean, I think it's kind of interesting that Epuron right now is in due diligence and is hesitating because of the environmental condition of the site. So we're not happy that it is what it is, but let me identify that and get it to you.
That is one site where a company with a hundred employees making over a hundred thousand dollars a year was interested in and was told --
Once again, I'm just not aware of that, but I'm happy to learn about it and try to do everything we can to address it.
Okay. Thank you. I really appreciate your coming in and your patience with us today. 195 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC.
I am in part learning more about what you do as we're going along, and I appreciate that. Economic development and job creation really are going to be extraordinarily important in the City of Philadelphia in the next eight or ten years. I believe the City is at a tipping point where it's going to go one way or the other, and that's why I am very interested and focused on this issue. While you did provide many documents that we requested, you did not provide them all, and I just wanted to have on the record your willingness to have my staff come out and talk to your staff --
-- ask more specific questions about different issues, and then hopefully any documents that were on our list that we request 196 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. we'd like. For example, budgets, we got a budget summary, but not the budgets.
Okay. Also memorandums of agreement and agreements for developments. The response was, Development agreements are typically entered into as part of a sales agreement and, therefore, included in Tab 22. And Tab does not include either of those 17 things. 18
Right. We'd 21 like the actual development agreements 22 for people who have done business -- who are obligated to do certain things and then --
I think the issue 197 10/1/08 - COMMERCE - BILL 080573, ETC. was, here again, was, you heard many times, we submitted over 3,500 pages. It would have been at least three or four times that to submit absolutely every document. So I think if there are specific, as you said, specific --