COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE ON RULES - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Wednesday, November 12, 2002 9:55 a.m. - - - BILL 020590 - an Ordinance to amend the Philadelphia Zoning Maps, by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of land located within an area bounded generally by Oregon Avenue, 20th Street, the Walt Whitman Bridge Approach and I-76. - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA, Chair COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE COUNCILMAN MICHAEL NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL ORTIZ - - - V A R A L L O, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 (215) 561-2220 I N D E X BILL 020590 JAMES CUORATO, Commerce Director ........... DAVID DISHY, Forest City ................... THOMAS CHAPMAN, City Planning Commission ... 17 JODY DELABARBARA (ph), Girard Estate Area Residents ............................. 18 JOHN FURY, Broad Street West Civic Assoc.... 19 3 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590
Good morning, everyone. I apologize for the delay. It is my understanding that Councilman Kenney who was to Chair this committee is unable to do so. And I'm appointing Councilman Goode to serve on the Rules Committee today. This is a public hearing of the Rules Committee regarding Bill No. 020590. I would ask Mr. Hawkins to please read the title of the bill.
An ordinance to amend the Philadelphia zoning maps by changing the zoning designations of certain areas of land located within an area bounded generally by Oregon Avenue, 20th Street, the Walt Whitman Bridge approach and I-76.
Who is going to be testifying on this bill? Mr. Cuorato. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good morning, Madam President and Members of the Committee. My name is James Cuorato, I'm a City Representative and Director of Commerce for the City of Philadelphia, and I'm here to testify in support of Bill No. 4 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 020590. This bill will change the zoning designation of a vacant lot that was part of the former Defense Supply Center on Oregon Avenue from Industrial to Area Shopping Center. The Defense Supply Center is currently owned by the Philadelphia Authority for Industrial Development which acquired the property from the Department of Defense in October of 2001. This property was among the handful of former military installations in Philadelphia closed by the Federal Government during a series of base closures throughout the 1990s. Under the federal law that closed these installations, PAID was the designated recipient of all defense assets in Philadelphia. In 2001, the Philadelphia Industrial Development Corporation acting on behalf of PAID marked the site through a public developer selection process. The size, location, and development ready condition of this site combined to make it very attractive to retail real estate developers from across the country. In all, 13 real estate developers expressed an interest in acquiring the site. The developer of the site, Forest City Ratner 5 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 Companies, was selected as a result of the process to redevelop the site into a 550,000 square foot retail center. Forest City is a national real estate development company that has extensive experience developing retail properties in cities throughout the United States. Forest City has identified Philadelphia as an attractive development location and one of a handful of cities in which it will target investment over the next several years. Forest City estimates the total private investment in this project alone will be more than $90 million. However, Forest City's acquisition of this site is contingent on a change in its zoning designation to Area Shopping Center. This re-zoing will allow Forest City to start construction early next year and open this center in the spring of 2004. Forest City's proposed project will have significant benefits for the City of Philadelphia. It will provide a high quality retail complex on Oregon Avenue, an important neighborhood commercial district in this City. This project will create more than 500 construction jobs over the course of the year it 6 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 will take to complete the center and more than 1200 new permanent jobs for Philadelphia residents when opened. This project will generate nearly $1 million annually in additional wage tax revenue for the City. And finally, the sale of this property will generate revenue that, in accordance with federal law, will be reinvested into the continuing redevelopment of the nearby Philadelphia Naval Business Center. With its local partners, Forest City has been working closely with Council President Verna's office and the residents of the surrounding neighborhoods through the Girard Estate Area Residents and the Broad Street West Civic Association to ensure that this project responds to the needs and desires of people that live in both of these communities. Local support of the proposed project is strong and the neighborhood residents anxiously await the start of construction and the opening of the center. I ask that the Committee consider this bill favorably and that the Rules of Council be suspended to permit first reading at the next regularly meeting of City Council. 7 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 I'd just like to add as I complete my testimony, on behalf of the developer, PIDC, and Administration, we are very grateful to your office, Madam President, for your help in coordinating the communication between the developer and the community groups to ensure that everyone is satisfied with what will be developed.
I understand also that a representative have Forest Center Ratner has submitted prepared testimony. They, as well as representatives of PIDC and myself are available to answer any questions. And I thank you for the opportunity to testify in support of this ordinance.
Thank you. It's my understanding that the area residents were very concerned about the traffic impact. A study has been conducted and they're very pleased with the outcome of that study. Do you understand that to be the case?
Thank you. And you indicate that ground-breaking will probably be sometime next year?
My projection at this 8 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 point would be in the spring, the ground-breaking would be in the spring. A representative from the developer is here, so if that's not the case, they will advise me. But spring would be the ground-breaking date, yes.
Fine. Thank you. Are there any questions from Members of the Committee? Someone from the Ratner is going to be testifying?
Madam President, they have submitted prepared testimony and they would be glad to testify if --
I don't have a copy of it. Maybe it's up here. As I said, Mr. Kenney was supposed to be chairing this meeting. I would like you to read it into the record, Mr. Cuoroto. Would you read your testimony into the record please.
David Dishy from Forest City Ratner is here, Madam President and is prepared to give his testimony. 9 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590
Sure. Good morning, Madam President and Members of the Committee, and thank you for the opportunity to speak here day. My name is David Dishy, I'm a Vice President with Forest City Ratner Companies. Forest City is one of the nation's leading real estate development companies with a particular focus on projects in the hearts of American cities. We own and have developed several residential and retail properties in the City of Philadelphia and have been actively seeking to expand our presence in the City, which we consider to be a strong strategic market for future growth. I am here today to testify in support of Bill No. 020590. This bill will change the zoning designation of a vacant lot that was part of the former Defense Supply Center at 20th Street and Oregon Avenue from Industrial to Area Shopping Center. This bill will allow our company to proceed with the development of a new 550,000 square foot retail center on this vacate site. This project will generate in the City of Philadelphia total investment in excess of $85 million. Once open, the 10 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 center is projected to generate 1200 permanent jobs, most of which are expected to be filled by residents of Philadelphia. In addition, development of the center is projected to directly generate nearly 500 construction related jobs. As part of our development effort, w have been working during the past year with area residents to ensure that the final project becomes a welcome and successful addition to the South Philadelphia community. As part of this process, we have worked with representative of the Girard Estate Area Residents and the Broad Street West Civic Association to refine our plans for this project. Both groups have now formally expressed the support of this rezoning and I believe are looking forward to the opening of a new first-class Center that will attract national retailers to their community. Thank you for your time and the opportunity to speak about the proposed zoning change for the vacant portion of the former Defense Supply Center, located at 20th Street and Oregon Avenue. Forest City is extremely excited to commence the development of this important project, 11 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 and we respectfully request your support on the proposed re-zoning. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you.
Thank you. We certainly welcome you into our community. Can you tell us if leasing has started at this site at all?
We're definitely actively involved in the leasing process with a series of tenants, all of whom are watching the zoning process closely and are exited that we are moving ahead.
Are there any questions? The Chair Councilman DiCicco.
Thank you, madam Chair. Good morning. Could either of you answer the following question. One is a follow-up on the Council President's question as to retailers. Are you at liberty at this time to discuss or name any of the retailers or tenants that you have that 12 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 either have leased or are presently in negotiations for leasing?
Basically, we are talking to -- the center is going to have two or three large anchors, and those would be a home improvement anchor, probably a department store, and a club of some kind, BJ, Cosco, that kind of -- and then you'll have smaller retailers, crafts, electronics, fashion, clothing, other stuff like that, gathered around the three anchors. And so we are getting favorable response in all of those fronts. Though we have not executed leases, it's somewhat pending the process, we are moving ahead well.
Are you familiar with the discussion or the desire for one of the major furniture distributors to locate at the CSX site at Delaware and Snyder?
Are you aware that the developer of that site in addition to the 13 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 furniture distributer warehouse or whatever we refer to that as, also would like that site rezoned so they can do an additional retail aside from the furniture distribution, for a lack of better way. I don't if I'm describing it right. It's Ikea. Ikea would like to locate at the CSX site, and I've been working with Ikea from the first site that they wanted. They're down to their third site now which is Delaware and Snyder. But in addition to Ikea, the developer -- are you aware that the developer wants to develop the entire site as a retail complex.
In your opinion, how will that impact on your development site? Do you have an opinion on that?
Our opinion is that it is sort of a sign of a positive belief for the retail market in Philadelphia. It's ultimately a good thing for our City.
So you think that Philadelphia can support both sites.
Is that a new 14 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 opinion? Because I know at one time I was being told that Philadelphia will never be able support both sites. Is that a recent survey, a recent opinion? What is the change -- I didn't have a conversation with you, but I had conversations with other people over the last several months when we were talking about the CSX site. Most folks in the know thought that it would be too dense or Philadelphia would not be able to support two retail sites of that magnitude.
As I think with any real estate developer, you prefer to have less competition rather than more competition for your sites. And so early on in the process, I believe it's fair to say we were concerned about certain sites moving ahead too quickly. I think ultimately now as we move ahead there's greater comfort that we could compete effectively with that site.
Because I've had a few developments in my district which we worked very hard at but, unfortunately, a couple of them didn't happen. In your opinion, if we were to move forward with the rezoning of the CSX site, you don't feel that it will have any impact on the tenants that 15 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 you're looking to attract to your site? And I use a case in point. When we were doing the Penns Landing site and the Simon Group was of the opinion that they were going to be able to get Disney to do a Disney Quest at that site. At some point in time, Disney then began to look at the Eighth and Market site, as did other retailers who were formerly looking at the Penns Landing site. And as a result of that, we now have a hole -- well, there's no longer a hole in the ground at Eighth and Market. We filled that in in the last few weeks. But the development did not happen there and it didn't happen at Penns Landing. And I almost see a similar scenario. And I'm for economic development. I would argue with anyone who would argue against that. I've tried everything I possibly could to create economic development, including the Penns Landing site for over five years. I've come under a lot of pressure lately to do the CSX site. And a lot have been written and said about that site. But one of my concerns has always been, can we sustain two large retail complexes basically almost in the same neck of the woods, in the South Philadelphia. 16 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 So that's the reason for my question. It's nothing personal. I really want to see economic development. Love to see your project, love the CSX. Both compete with each other but both sustain themselves and have high quality retail. My concern is that we may be cannibalizing one location for the other. I have no problem with Ikea, but I may have some problems with some of the other retail that's being proposed at the CSX site which kind of fits into to what you're saying. You have a home improvement box, without mentioning names, and we already have one down on Delaware Avenue. I don't know if we can sustain three of those types of home improvement facilities. So I wanted to get this on the record, and I think it was an appropriate day because the clock is ticking on CSX, as you know, and I need to make a decision shortly. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony.
Are there any other questions from Members of the Committee? (No response.)
I just want ask that you please stay in close communication with 17 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 the area representatives so that they know exactly what's happening as you go along. And I'm sure that their input will be extremely helpful in making your project a huge success.
I agree. Their input has been tremendously helpful to date and we look forward to continuing that dialog with them, they've been great.
Thank you. Do we have anyone else to testify on this bill? Please approach the table. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good morning, Madam President and Members of the Rules Committee, for the City Planning Commission, my name is Thomas Chapman. Madam President, much of my testimony would be repetitive to what's already been said today, so I think rather burden the record I'll just state for the record that the Planning Commission 18 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 considered and approved this amendment to the zoning maps at its meeting of October 15, 2002. I'd be more than happy to answer any questions of the Committee.
Thank you. Are there any questions for Members of the Committee? (No response.)
Thank you very much. I note that we do have two members of the community here. If they wouldn't mind, please, taking the witness table. Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.
My name is Jody DelaBarbara, I'm the president of Girard Estate Area Residents.
Just to reiterate, we've gone through a long process working with PIDC, yourself, of course, other representatives of the community. We've come to an agreement with Forest 19 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 City, and I think everything's worked out. And there's a letter on record from our attorney Mr. Scandone that we approve of the project as it stands now.
And you are also satisfied with the traffic impact study.
Good morning, Madam Chair and Members of Council. My name is John Fury, President of Broad Street West Civic Association, and I share Jody's sentiments. We're working with our attorney and with the developer. Everything is moving along. We're satisfied with the project so far. We're glad to see that we have the local developer Mr. Grasso involved. We trust his judgment and we're working well with him on other matters, so we're looking forward now to taking a look at the tenants and make sure that we get top grade tenants. Also, that we have competition. We don't have too many similar businesses. We'd like to have, you know, a Lowes at one end of Oregon Avenue and a Home Depot at the other end, but not two or three Home Depots. I 20 11/12/02 - RULES - BILL 020590 agree with Councilman DiCicco. We can't get overloaded. We need competition, but we need some high-end competition and no dollar stores.
Thank you. And I just want to publicly thank you both for your time, effort, and energy that you've put into this project. You're to be applauded for it. Thank you very much. Anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Seeing none, this will conclude the public hearing. - - - 21 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC MEETING COMMITTEE ON RULES - - - Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - - - Public Meeting conducted by the Committee on Rules, held in Room 696, City Hall, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, on the above date, to consider action on the following: BILL 020590. - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT VERNA, Chair COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE COUNCILMAN MICHAEL NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL ORTIZ - - - 22 11/12/02 - RULES - MEETING
We will now go into the public meeting. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I make a motion that Bill No. 7 020590 be reported out with favorable recommendation and a request for suspension of rules as to allow first reading at the next meeting. (Duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 020590 be reported out of Committee with a favorable recommendation, also a recommendation that the Rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next Council Session. All in favor will signify by saying aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it. The motion carries. And I thank you all again. And I apologize for the delay in starting the hearing. Thank you so much. (Council adjourned at 10:15 a.m.) 23 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of November 12, 2002, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. RE: COMMITTEE ON RULES ___________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR and Notary Public