COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, May 5, 2008, 10:15 a.m. - - - Resolution 080089 - Authorizing the Committee on the Environment to hold public hearings to examine Philadelphia International Airport's recycling policies and goals, and to explore alternative approaches to increasing the Airport's recycling rate of both public and internal waste. Resolution 080266 - Calling on the Committee on the Environment and the Committee on Commerce and Economic Development to hold joint hearings on adopting a Green Job Corps to help Philadelphia create a qualified, trained workforce to support local green businesses and contractors. COUNCILMEMBERS PRESENT: James F. Kenney, Chair Blondell Reynolds Brown, Vice Chair Curtis Jones, Jr. Jack Kelly Frank Rizzo - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Specialists 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2 5/5/08 - COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT I N D E X WITNESS Resolution 080089 Panel 1 - Philadelphia Airport Charlie Isdell, Acting Aviation Director 7 C. Davenger, Environmental Stewardship Allen Moore, Facilities Maintenance Mgr. 27 6 Panel - Baltimore/Washington International 7 Richard Keller, Manager of Recycling.... 75 Edwin Maker, Contract Manager.......... 76 Panel 3 - PennFuture C. Knapp, E. PA Outreach Coordinator.... 99 - - - Resolution 080266 Panel 1 Duane Bumb, Deputy Director, Commerce 111 Panel 2 L. Brancky, Sustainable Bus. Network.... 131 Scott Wheeler, Strategy Arts............ 136 J. Carroll, Wissahickon Charter School 141 L. Hunter, Wissahickon Charter Student 150 A. Paget, " " " 153 Panel 3 S.D. Glenn, American Cities Foundation 172 Christine Knapp, PennFuture............. 190 Judy Wicks, White Dog Cafe.............. 197 Sonia De Van-Lake, Phila. Workforce Dev. 201 Panel 4 C. Morssink, Healthy Environmental Coll. 214 Glenn Bergman, Weavers Way Corporation 220 J. Naples, Greensgrow Farm.............. 223 L. Robertson, Energy Coordinating Office 230 3 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. The Committee on the Environment is now in session. We do not have a need for a quorum since we are dealing with two resolutions, so in the interest of saving some time for the people who are here today, we'd like to get started. And as Councilmembers come -- Councilmember Rizzo is here now. As Councilmembers come, we will enter them into the record. I just have a briefing opening remark relative to the issue of airport recycling. As we all know, Philadelphia's in the midst of taking steps to support urban stainability and promote green initiatives. From incorporating energy-efficient policies and products to establishing incentives for greening, there is much to be proud of more and still much more we can do. 4 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 One area we can improve on is recycling. While I am aware of Philadelphia International Airport's commitment to environmental stewardship, I would like to see an active recycling campaign throughout the airport, with receptacles located conveniently throughout each concourse, especially since the airport is often the first and last impression of Philadelphia for visitors. Recycling is an opportunity to showcase our commitment to being green. With over 30 million passengers each year, the airport has a tremendous opportunity to divert newspapers, magazines, bottles, and other recyclable products from the waste stream. Therefore, I am interested in hearing about what steps are being taken to encourage travelers to recycle. Furthermore, I would like to hear more about the airport's 5 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 recycling guidelines and procedures for administrative offices, retail shops, and restaurants. There are many airports that have adopted aggressive and creative policies for both internal and public recycling of materials ranging from plastic bottles to cooking oil. The Seattle Tacoma International Airport, which is currently ranked as the 17th busiest passenger airport in the U.S., has been recycling tonnage increase by 900 percent between 2001 and 2005 by providing recycling opportunities in the terminals, retail stores, maintenance buildings and airport offices, as well as food concessions, taxi stands, and garages. The Baltimore-Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport is here today to share their success story of growing recycling from less than 5 percent to 28 percent 6 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 in two years. I'd like to thank everyone for being here today and for participating in this hearing so that we can learn more about what our airport is doing to recycle and how we can expand this important program. Let me also say that we are certainly going to review what the airport has done over the course of the years, but going forward, we would like to make this a more positive hearing so that we can put in place a program that we can all be proud of and be effective in trying to accomplish our recycling goals. So with that being said, I'd like to ask our first panel, which is Charles Isdell and Calvin Davenger from the airport. Please proceed with your testimony. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good morning. As you know please, identify 7 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 yourself for the record and proceed.
My name is Charlie Isdell. I'm the Acting Director of Aviation for the City of Philadelphia. And Calvin, do you want to introduce yourself?
Yes. Good morning. My name is Calvin Davenger. I'm Deputy Director of Aviation Planning and Environmental Stewardship.
Please proceed. By the way, Councilman Kelly is now in attendance also.
Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. Philadelphia International Airport has embarked on a host of environmental programs over the past 8 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 decade. One of our most challenging initiatives has been the gradual growth of recycling and integrated solid-waste management systems. With over 200 tenant businesses, 32 million passengers a year, two-and-a-half million square feet of terminal space, and 35,000 employees working seven days week, 365 days a year, the airport has one of the more complicated waste streams in the region. As you can imagine, an airport recycling program presents more challenges than a typical commercial facility due to the budgetary constraints of the airlines that fund our budgets as well as some of the regulator restrictions imposed by the FAA and the Transportation Security Administration. Waste streams at the airport can be divided into two categories. The first is waste from non-leased terminal areas, such as City offices 9 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 and buildings; and the second is waste from areas leased by the airlines, vendors, and other tenants. The first category generated about 2500 tons of solid waste in 2007; and the second category, roughly 8500 tons. In 2007, we recycled about 62 tons of mixed paper, cardboard, and beverage containers in our City facilities. The number is up from 42 tons the previous year, but it still only represents a two-and-a-half percent recycling rates. However, initiatives we have undertaken in 2008 will significantly increase this rate. Separately, we contract with an EPA-certified recycling company that recovered nearly 60,000 fluorescent lamps and over 3,000 ballasts in 2007. Our concession program recovers 130 tons of recyclable cardboard each year. We also utilize citywide 10 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 contracts for the recycling of toner cartridges, scrap metal, tires, construction and demolition material and obsolete electronics. Because the Procurement Department administers these contracts centrally, no specific airport tonnage data is available for those materials. We are working with Procurement to establish a procedure to calculate these quantities in the future. All of the above represents Phase I of a three-phase program that will dramatically increase recycling rates for the airport's tenants and passengers while simultaneously reducing costs and creating significant environmental benefits. Phase II involves the collection and recycling of public waste. This effort has been hampered in the past due to high levels of contamination caused by passenger misuse of the receptacles. Undaunted, 11 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 we have recently completed a successful pilot recycling program on Concourse B and are now using seven state-of-the-art integrated recycling receptacles to recover beverage containers, newspapers, and magazine in that concourse. Twelve additional receptacles are already on order for placement in Concourses A and C and additional 12 receptacles will be put out to bid 13 through the Procurement Department 14 later this month. 15 We've hired 12 semi-skilled 16 laborers for the hauling of materials. 17 We also received assistance from the 18 Procurement Department in adding the 19 airport facility to the citywide 20 contract for recycled materials 21 processing. We estimate that the 22 airport will dramatically increase its 23 recycling rate after full deployment of these receptacles in all of our concourses. 12 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 And, Mr. Chairman, we do have a sample of the receptacle on display today in Council chambers.
Phase III will involve the development of a centralized recycling system that will encompass paper, cardboard, beverage containers, and other material- collection services for all vendors and companies at the airport. This will allow for enormous economies of scale. USAirways and American Airlines are already in discussions with us regarding collection of recyclables in their passenger hold rooms. The airport's recycling committee was formed in 2002 as part of a campaign to raise recycling awareness. Calvin Davenger, our Deputy Director for Planning and Environmental Stewardship, chairs the Committee. The members, some of whom are 13 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 here with us today, represent all airport departments. They meet monthly and have helped to development and implement our recycling plans and training programs. They also participate in public-outreach events such as America Recycles Day and Earth Day. The committee has also engaged local schools, including Patterson Elementary School, in environmental awareness programs. Committee members also act as resources and mentors to colleagues. And, for example, they put together a set of recycling instructions for all employees to clearly explain the office recycling program. The Green Airports Initiative encompasses all aspects of airport environmental policy, including solid waste, green design, water quality, air quality, and energy efficiency. Its solid waste subcommittee is cochaired David Biddle, Executive 14 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 Director of the Greater Philadelphia Commercial Recycling Council and is composed of key policy-makers from the US EPA, Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection, the City's Recycling Office, the Mayor's Recycling Advisory Committee, and several institutional recycling managers from around the region. This group meets regularly with airport personnel and provides valuable guidance on issues such as recycling. Earth Day and -- I'm sorry. PHL has held Earth Day and America Recycles Day events for airport employees and the public for almost a decade to raise awareness about the airport's recycling mission. Awards are given out in recognition of individuals contributing to environmental stewardship. Media briefings are conducted and information booths are on display, providing numerous environmental 15 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 organizations the opportunity to network with airport passengers and employees. Some of the key objectives we've targeted for 2008 include the following: First, expansion of public- area recycling to all concourses. Second, establishment of a passenger education process, in partnership with the TSA, to minimize material confiscated during the security screening process. Three, meet the ongoing training needs of maintenance and custodial management staff. Fourth, development of a better and timelier tracking and monitoring system for all materials recovered on site. Sixth [sic], formal establishment of a waste-management program budget. Seven, strategic addition of 16 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 new materials for recycling; for example, food waste, composting, wood pallets, and other organic material. Eight, regular updates on our website regarding recycling program process. And lastly, begin a five-year strategic planning process for solid- waste recycling at the airport. If time is available, I would just like to mention a few of our other recent environmental achievements.
On air quality, we made the largest US airport wind-energy purchase: 13,000 megawatt hours per year through the PECO Wind Energy Program. We subsidize SEPTA Transpasses to encourage employees to use our R1 high-speed line rather than drive to work. And we currently have seven hybrid vehicles for our staff; three more are on order. 17 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 In water quality, we have a new de-icing facility that directs de-icing fluid runoff to the City's sewage system rather than let it run into the Delaware River. Wetlands creation at Penny Pack Park and Heinz Wildlife Reserve has been done in the past. The red- bellied turtle has begun to repopulate our area thanks to habitat enhancement; that is a state threatened species. Cleanup and monitoring of the former Enterprise Avenue landfill, upon which the Runway 826 was built in the '90s. We continue to monitor wells to make sure that the water supply is safe. Elimination of sludge dump at Northeast Airport through a program whereby we cleaned up the site and sold the property to TJ Maxx Corporation, which now has a giant distribution warehouse at Northeast 18 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 Airport. And in the noise area, we have a program: Ongoing sound insulation at 600 homes in Tinicum Township. We've opened noise community service offices in both Tinicum Township and the Eastwick community of Philadelphia. And we've proposed sound insulation of historic Fort Mifflin structures on the historic Fort Mifflin property. Lastly, Philadelphia Green -- PHL Green Program. We are a sponsor, and have been for the last two years, of the Philadelphia Flower Show. This year, we had an award-winning exhibit that was put together by students from the Saul Agricultural High School. We have done Earth Day awareness, tree plantings with Kensington High School for the last several years. And we allow a group of senior citizens to do community farming on a seven-acre parcel of our 19 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 property north of Runway 1735 in the Eastwick community. I want to thank you for the opportunity to present this information. We're very proud of our environmental stewardship program and we would like to make you proud as well. And, Mr. Chairman, if you wish, I could introduce the members of the recycling committee. It will just take a moment.
The ones that are here today are: Maryanne Boyle is here. If you want to stand when I say your name. Diane Bush, Al Chernoff, Barbara Culture, Bob Drellic (sp?), Barbara Evans, Marshall Evans (no 22 relation), Henry Fapahanda (sp?), Dita Cullman, Sandy Lanier, Clyde Latham, Vicki Lupica, Darnell Mason, Bob Gizinski (sp?), Deirdre McDermott 20 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 O'Neill, Allen Moore, Karen Merchantson (sp?), Kim Rone (sp?), Robin Ross; and our custodial superintendent, Ed Gore; our maintenance manager, Allen Moore; and our assistant director, Tracy Border. All of them have been active in our recycling and other environmental programs. I just wanted to acknowledge them. And thank you for the opportunity.
Thank you very much. Thank you for your and thank you for your volunteer efforts on behalf of the recycling program at the airport. And I want to thank you for a lot of the other -- many other environmentally sensitive and green initiatives at the airport. I think our overall -- or at least my overall general concern has been the level of 2.5 percent of our recycling. And I sense from the 21 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 testimony that you've given relative to efforts in 2008 that by this time next year, we could probably get hopefully a very good report on an increase from 2.5 percent to a substantial amount.
Yes, that is certainly our goal. And I really want to thank you and the committee, Mr. Chairman, for, among other things, stimulating and focusing us on this issue.
I think with the new administration and the new administration's embrace of sustainability and recycling and everything's else that I think we need to look at each individual aspect and component of what we do in government, whether it's this building, whether it's the airport, whether it's the Navy Yard, in ongoing efforts to kind of focus attention. As I said in a speech at the 22 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 end of one of our last Council sessions, since we've gotten weekly single-stream recycling, I put the trash out on Wednesday night, and Thursday is our trash day, I put out two bags when I normally put out five and was physically and personally shocked at the reduction in my trash based on this single-stream weekly pickup. So I think if we can replicate that at the airport, we'll be taking a lot of, I guess, landfillable products out of our recycling stream. Councilman Rizzo?
Thank you Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Mr. Isdell and your colleagues.
Beyond what you've described today, I just have a couple of questions about other areas of the airport. 23 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 When a flight arrives at your airport, there's a lot of materials -- newspapers that are left behind by passengers. The flight attendants, when they come down the aisle, from experience, they put cans and they put trash all in one container. How are you dealing with some of those materials that are accumulated in our city? I don't know whether the airline takes it with them or they discard it here. Could you describe that process?
I'm going to ask Deputy Director Davenger to help me with this. But at the present time, we have discussions ongoing with USAirways and American Airlines to do recycling of the airline waste stream that largely accumulate in the hold rooms. I just read recently that Seattle Airport has embarked on a program to actually recycle the waste 24 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 that comes off the plane; is that specifically what you're talking about?
Yeah. In other words, I'm just talking about what -- the times I just left a newspaper in the seat pocket, thinking that it's going to be obviously picked up by somebody that cleans the aircraft, and I wondered if you look down the rows, there's dozens and dozens and dozens of newspapers, plus when the flight attendant comes through, they pick up soda cans and perishable food and everything that accumulates during the flight. What happens to it? Does it stay behind? does it go with the aircraft? I don't know.
Good morning, Councilman. What you've described is pretty much what has been identified in 25 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 a report that was published by the National Resources Defense Council, which was titled "Trash Landing." And essentially what that report outlined are those same issues. And when it comes to off- aircraft recycling, it's pretty much handled on an airport-by-airport basis, and it's pretty much the policy of whatever airline that you're flying on at the time. So at our airport, since we haven't fully implemented what we call our Phase III, which is kind of an all-encompassing and centralized recycling program at our airport, I don't really have a good answer for that. I'd have to go back to the specific airline and ask them what is it that they do. And that's part of, you know, what we're looking to do going forward.
I'm sorry. If I can elaborate. I think that we would -- initially, the assumption would be that the airline itself as a corporate entity would have some desire to be responsible and recycle that waste. What I think we're discovering is that the airport really has to take the lead and, at the very least, make it more convenient and practical and cost-beneficial for them to do that. And we really haven't done that, honestly, up to now, but it is the Phase III plan that we're looking at for next year.
Is that your expense to discards of their debris? Do they put it in containers that you're responsible for --
-- and the 27 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 airport pays for that disposal?
If it comes off -- and I may need some help from my maintenance manager here, but if it comes off the plane into the airline's hold room area, they dispose of it themselves. The exception would be if it's at what we call "a common use gate," like an international gate, which is not really -- we're responsible to maintain those gates, including the cleanliness of them. And I believe that that waste is frequently left in trash bags on the jet bridges and then collected by our staff and put into the general waste stream. I think we may want the maintenance manager to explain that process. (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning. My 28 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 name is Allen Moore and I'm the Airport Facilities Maintenance Manager. Typically -- what Charlie has described is correct -- the airlines historically are responsible for the waste that they generate on the aircraft that they collect as part of their aircraft-cleaning processes and then subsequently handle it internally.
Could you stay there. I have one more quick question. You talked about, during your remarks, Mr. Isdell, the de-icing project, where they de-ice the aircraft before takeoff. You talked about that once it ran off into the river and now it's recovered into the sewage system? Isn't there a way -- I read an article once where some airports are recovering that material and using it again after some process of 29 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 purification. It seems as though that's pretty expensive material just to flush it down the drain.
Again, I think Mr. Davenger has an up-to-the-minute answer to that question regarding de-icing fluid.
Yes. Councilman, some years ago, we looked at -- or we proposed to put a study in place to study recycling some of that material on airport premises, you know, some portable recycling equipment. And what we found was that pretty much the amounts that we were collecting and storing, they weren't of a high enough BOD CO2 content to make it worthwhile to recycle; it was fairly dilute. And so it wasn't an economical process for us, so we didn't -- you know, we didn't pursue that. But we did do a study to investigate a means of recycling some of that material. 30 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 Also, the standards for that material by the airlines are quite high. And so when you do recycle it, it's oftentimes not used again on aircraft. It may be used as part of runway de-icing or some other de-icing use.
Is that material appropriate to flush down the drain? Is there any consequence of that going into the sewage treatment facilities? The pipes won't freeze, that's for sure, but --
Well, we have an agreement with the Water Department to take this product, you know, if it's of certain quality, and they have chemicals, bugs, per se, that do work to clean that material and make it usable again.
It's actually metered. An d one of the reasons, I believe, when we had this study done in terms of doing a recycling program that would either pay for itself or be cost- beneficial is the idea that we just happen to live sort of -- you know, our part of the country. We have sometimes severe, sometimes mild winters, like we had a fairly mild winter this year, so not in a steady stream. When we have a really bad winter and a lot of de-icing fluid is used, it actually -- we have holding tanks that when it's collected from the pad, it goes into a dedicated drain system and goes into some tanks, and then it's metered over the course of the whole year into the Water Department's sewage-treatment system. When we have a really bad winter, sometimes we run out of capacity in those tanks, and the excess fluid has to be hauled away in 32 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 trucks. When that happens, the vendor who hauls the excess de-icing fluid away does recycle it, as far as I know, but we don't get -- at least up until now, we don't get credit for that. And it has not been -- it's been such an erratic processes, not a regular amount year-to-year, that we haven't really focused on it.
In your testimony, you indicated that one of the biggest obstacles to the public common-area recycling is the contamination of recyclable material. Can you give me an idea as to what type of contamination and what you may be aware of what other airports do to handle that contamination problem.
Yes. Can I ask Calvin to weigh in on that also? 33 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089
Yes. The contamination that you typically see would be contamination by food waste, perhaps some cleaning fluids, oils, drink cups as opposed to beverage containers. These are the type of things that we would typically see.
Are you aware of what other airports do to -- I'm sure the flying public in Chicago or New York or California have the same bad habits as our people do.
Well, I believe, you know most airports do have a certain amount of contamination depending on how they recycle. Now, we're at a stage now, or finally at a stage, you know, where we're kind of turning a corner, where we can do commingle products. So the contamination rate tends to be a little bit less because we do have beverage containers that still have, you know, water and beverage and mixed 34 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 drinks, you know, in with the recyclable materials. So that's made a big difference. And as far as what other airports do, I guess it depends on how their system is set up, what kind of a facilities they have near them to process the materials. And that's a big part of recycling is that you have to have the facilities available to process the various types of commodities that come off of your premises.
When will Phase III be -- when is your target date for Phase III fully implemented?
We're going to go back and take a much harder look at that. Phase III --
Well, is it fair to say you're in Phase II now or completing Phase II?
We're in Phase II now. You know, certainly when we 35 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 started, pretty much as other airports across -- domestic airports started, they started with pretty much the offices with, you know, white paper, mixed paper, cardboard. Then they would move into, you know, the public areas the best that they could. And that's where we are. Phase III, in my mind, can be handled in one of two ways. We have terminal recyclable materials, which fall under what I would call Phase I or Phase II, and I think the airport can manage that, I think we can budget for that, I think we can put a system, put a mechanism in place to deal with those. When it comes to Phase III, if you're talking a centralized recycling process, we may want to investigate a waste-management or third-party- managed-type system, which would then take the airlines' recyclables from the maintenance facilities, from off 36 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 aircraft, from their back-of-the-house facilities, and handle that maybe separately from what comes off the terminal. Stuff that comes off the terminal is usually pretty clean. We're working with Blue Mountain now; we can get most of those materials to Blue Mountain. Some of the other materials may be better served if they go to a local or a close facility where those products can be handled. So we may be looking at two separate systems here.
Who hauls the office -- the Philadelphia office's recycled material and non-recyclable material now?
Right now, the recycle material is being hauled by Accurate Recycling.
And who is -- and how about the non-recyclable material?
We haul our own. 37 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 We have compactors --
Now, in Phase II, who do you envision hauling that recyclable and non-recyclable material?
Who hauls it now? The terminal, whether it's recyclables in the future or the current trash we're disposing of, who hauls the terminal trash right now?
Right now, we haul the terminal trash through our own City of Philadelphia compactor trucks. That would be non-recycled material. We 38 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 haul it to the appropriate waste disposable facility --
Do you have the capacity of using Philadelphia equipment to pick up the recycling material in the terminal?
We collect the recycling material in the terminal, but at this point, I would say we probably don't the capacity to actually haul it to a processing facility, which is one of the reasons we are looking to engage in a contract.
Well, when Philadelphia picks up its residential single-stream weekly recycled material now, who hauls that; do you know?
As far as I know, the City of Philadelphia hauls it in their trucks for recycling.
So it out of the realm of possibilities for us to be hauling our own recycled material to the same place the City is taking its 39 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 recyclables.
It's a possibility, but it would require investment on the part of the airport in terms of additional vehicles to haul that material as well as staffing to drive them.
And do you anticipate doing a cost analysis on what we're saving in potential tipping fees into landfill as opposed to what we'd be siphoning off from that landfill cost to kind of compare it to what our cost of purchasing equipment and/or personnel would be?
Well, initially, when we started recycling, we did do that kind of analysis, and the analysis was based on whether we would take the program totally in-house or whether we would do some with the Division of Aviation staff and with some of our contractors. And when we looked at it, as 40 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 Allen had mentioned, it would involve purchasing compactors, additional crews for (indiscernible) and grounds. And at that time, the decision was made for the outside hauling to be done by contractors.
The only problem with the outside hauling, even though the number right now is -- it's a comparatively low annual figure of 23,006, which is really not much in the scheme of your budget; it's about $382 a ton, which -- we get economies of scale the more we collect and put into that, even if it's a private hauler, do we get -- does the tonnage price go up or down the more we put into the stream?
Well, it depends on the quality of the material, you know, that you take to the facility. And, you know, at this point, what we're hoping to do and what we're looking to do to subsidize some of 41 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 these costs, you know, we're trying -- we're looking to maybe generate some advertising revenue from these receptacles that we're using now to, you know, pay for some of the expensive programs as well as, since we are with -- we finally did get a contract with Blue Mountain, who, up to now, was handling only residential recyclable materials. So we -- as a commercial entity, we have a contract with them. We're on the same -- I think they pay, like 30 -- they pay so much per ton. I don't know if it's $30 per ton or what the figure is exactly. So --
I'm sorry. I don't understand that. Who pays $30 per ton?
Well, they pay 42 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 the City.
So we hope to, you know, work some figures using those numbers.
So theoretically, the more we collect and the more we ship off to a private entity, the more money we make. So it's a potentially money-making venture.
Now, on Phase III, do you private, City, or a combination of both in the hauling?
On Phase III, again, you know, we're still having discussions. You know, we do have a subcommittee that's working on that under the Green Airport Initiative, who David Biddle is the chairman of, and 43 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 we're looking at it very closely. But in my mind, if it was up to me, it would be a separate operation; it wouldn't involved the City at all.
Right. But we could do the cost analysis to figure out whether or not it makes any sense.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My line of questioning is on the same not. And it's good to see you, Mr. Isdell. We've shared a lot of board rooms together. I'd like to follow up by saying: How long have we done recycling and greening in one capacity or another?
I've been involved since about 19, maybe, 96. But the airport has been involved probably a little bit longer than that. I believe their first study that they had conducted was in 1994. We had a study done by Urban to assess what our waste stream looked at. You know, we had people come in, they went through the trash, they went through the Dumpsters; they assessed what type of commodities, what type of materials are coming off of the airport. And so, that's kind of when it got started at the airport. Now, since that time, we were tied for a period of time to the City's Recycling Office, and we had to file a recycling program with them, which we did do, again, in the late 1990s, and we were compliant with that and we're still compliant as far as I know with that. 45 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 So I would say since late 1990s.
All right. I saw testimony that we're generating 13,000 megawatts of windmill electricity, 62 tons of cardboard. We're beginning to use hybrid vehicles, seven of which we have and three or more are on order. My question becomes, and I think the spirit of what some of the comments that Councilman Kenney mentioned, is that if we are going to take on these initiatives, we have to do a cost-benefit analysis. My question becomes: How much have we saved by way of windmill power versus what we would have paid in electrical power?
Well, that particular example is an example where we actually pay more to get the wind power than we would pay normally. So really, that was an investment in 46 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 environmental stewardship rather than a cost savings. At least at this point, we don't project a savings.
The question then becomes: What does it cost us to generate 13,000 megawatts watts of electricity?
I don't have that off the top of my head, but we could certainly get that for you, Councilman.
That's an important -- I mean, as we start to move forward are as a city to start to measure what the benefits and the cost benefit analysis for these efforts, we need to be real clear as we get on tighter margins with our ability to meet our budgets whether these initiatives are, in fact, a effort to save the world through greening or cost-effective measures by which we save our budget, so we need to really take a look at that. Same question for the 47 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 cardboard: Do we gain money by recycling these 62,000 tons of cardboard, or does it cost us to do the recycling?
Well, again, the contracts that we were working with in the past, we weren't receiving that type of a benefit. With the contracts we have now, we do expect to receive benefit from cardboard that we take to these processing facilities. And ideally, you know, again on the terminal side for recycling, what we're looking to do is, you know, we're looking to have shoots off the terminal areas feeding compactor units, which keep everything clean, keep everything dry, keep the rodents out. We would like to have bailers to bail the cardboard from the warehouse from the maintenance facilities so we have clean bails of cardboard that can go to these 48 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 facilities, and we can gets top dollar for 'em. So these are some of the things that we would like to see happening.
If I can just add, you know, a more direct answer. I think that recycling -- of all of the environmental initiatives that we've looked at, the recycling seems to have the most potential to ultimately, if not become profitable, at least to pay for itself, and some of that depends on these economies of scale that we're looking at that Councilman Kenney referred to. But in the interim, there may be an initial investment that we have to make, but we're already seeing, somewhat to our surprise, the airlines, now that they've seen the receptacles in use and because Calvin and his staff have been pretty aggressively approaching them about 49 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 not only recycling but things like using ground-service equipment, you know, the tugs and carts that drive around. The airlines seem to be receptive and desirous of joining us in this program. So that's good news. And I think, frankly, they wouldn't be that interested if they didn't see it as being economically beneficial to them.
But as we approach all of these various aspects, and all of them are worthwhile, as I read through your testimony, worthwhile, we need to measure. If a hybrid vehicle is supposed to give us more gas mileage, the question is, does it? I mean, does it really? And as we excuse me oil -- I mean, gasoline, we need to measure whether or not they're having the benefits that they stated they would have in the beginning. 50 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 I understand about the environmental carbon footprint reduction of carbons, but by way of efficiency in saving us gas and as prices go up, we need to measure this. Because your example can be beta testing for the City of Philadelphia. I mean, we can see what savings you're able to make in that particular department and decide whether we're going to replicate it throughout the types of vehicles, whether or not the light bulbs are actually reducing the kilowatts that they say they are. And somehow measuring that is as important as just doing it. So I would encourage you to kind of do a cost-benefit analysis.
Certainly. And I can say, you know -- we're, you know, along with the very enlightened scrutiny that we get of our budget from City Council every year, we have a 51 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 double review. And the airlines, who ultimately pay the lion's share of our revenue stream, have the same incentive that you're talking about. They will from time to time -- and remember, a lot of them have been in bankruptcy in recent years. They will from time to time support environmental initiatives that do not have immediate economic benefits. But over the long haul, they want to see the cost benefit, or they will no longer support those programs.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, gentlemen. PANEL MEMBERS: Good morning.
First let me commend your leadership, Mr. Isdell, 52 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 on having a department that looks like Philadelphia. It's always encouraging to see leaders in various departments have people of all stripes in positions of leadership and responsibilities. And I could not sit here and let that go unnoticed. Second of all, let me thank you for your decision to allow the Langston Hughes flags project to happen at the airport and that space being an art venue for work done by area public, charter, and private schools. To my questions. One, in your testimony under challenges and goal for 2008, you indicate that you expect to establish a passenger education partnership. Discuss that briefly, what that means and where that is.
Good afternoon, 53 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 good morning.
We found for the most part that, especially when we were experiencing a good deal of contamination, that that was mostly because people didn't understand what they need to recycle and what they didn't need to recycle. With the current (indiscernible) that we have now, that's -- we have exhibits in and around the recycling unit, which we believe help people to understand what recyclables are and what is not a good recyclable type of product.
And we also have in the past -- and it's not ongoing, we expect to have it ongoing. We do have programs from time to time in the public school system where we'll go in and we'll talk to the students about 54 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 recycling. We do have programs at the airport on recycling and Earth Day, where we bring in other environmentally -- or other agencies also to help us get the message across about recycling and things which we can do to either reduce, reuse, or recycle to help reduce the waste streams.
Yes, if I can also -- specifically I think the item that you're mentioning or that you're referring to mentioned the Transportation Security Administration partnership?
And that is an area, if you remember a couple of summers the imposition of the rule 55 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 where you couldn't take liquids, more than three ounces onto planes resulted -- and it was kind of a surprise announcement at the time -- that resulted in a great deal particularly of bottled water accumulating outside the checkpoint area.
So we really have two different things going on. There's material that's confiscated by the TSA right before you go through the metal detectors. That is contraband that they are responsible for, and they have methods to dispose of that that we're not totally privy to for security reasons. But now what we do have outside before you enter what's called the lanes where you show your boarding pass --
-- we've established a system where we do recycle all of that liquid that's disposed of by passengers at that point. And I think Allen Moore can address that a little more specifically 'cause I think that's a very good improvement to the system we had in the past.
Thanks, Charlie. Yes, Councilwoman, a couple of years ago, we did have a quite a problem dealing with all of that waste that was suddenly being disposed or divested of by passengers just prior to entering the security checkpoint. And what we found was that the majority of it was, as you could imagine, plastic water bottles, soda bottles, cans, things of that nature, some glass. And really, the contamination level of it wasn't too bad other than the liquids in there. 57 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 So through the help of our custodial department, we did start adding that material to our recycling stream, and I would say that probably accounts for of the majority of the commingled plastic bottles, glass cans that we do recycle at the airport right now.
The program where you cite your involvement with Philadelphia public schools, are they public schools in the region? is that system-wide? What is it?
So principals on their own look to that opportunity that exists at the airport? I'm just trying to get a handle on --
Yes. Most schools have a requirement that the students have so much -- so many hours of environmental education.
And so we will talk to the principals of some of the schools to try to come in the door to lecture and help provide that environmental training.
So it's on an interest basis; it's not something that's stipulated by the School District.
Okay. That's what I'm trying to get a handle on. Okay. Last and final question: What strategies do you see putting in place to move the needle that's been articulated by Chairman Kenney with regards to the level of recycling?
Well, again, we're getting more of these recycling units to help to complete Phase II of our recycling process.
Certainly with 59 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 these in place in all of the concourses and the public spaces, we would expect to have more recycling materials. Also, in July, we expect to have contracts in place where we will have compactors to handle the larger volume of materials. Right now, we have Dumpsters so we're going to replace the Dumpsters with the compactors. And we are working, you know, with the airlines, with American Airlines and soon with USAirways, on programs that they want to tie into our recycling program, which also will add to our recycling stream.
Our goal is to 60 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 have all seven terminals with recycling bins by the end of this calendar year.
And as I mentioned in my testimony, I think we have enough on order for half of the airport to be covered. We now really just have one of our seven concourses, B. We've got bins on order for two other concourses, and then I think a follow-up order that hasn't gone out for bid yet that will add at least one or two additional concourses. I think the big thing that we're learning -- and I had to learn this as well and I'm very interested in what the BWI representatives may teach us as part of their presentation, but at least in our environment -- and remember, every airport is a little bit different in terms of how it was built, how it was constructed, how it's laid out. And the centralized systems 61 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 are a little bit easier in some physical plants than they might be in ours just simply because of the way it's --
But what we found is that there's really three elements here. There's the collection of the material and then it has to be hauled, and at least in the City's current setup, that's a separate contract with Accurate Industries, I believe.
So our staff actually takes it from the recycling containers to a Dumpster or compactor on the air side of the airport. Then it's hauled by a contractor. And the final piece was, we had to have a disposal facility on 62 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 contract to accept the recycled material, and the City already had a contract with a company called Blue Mountain.
We had to -- it took us some time to have the airport added to that contract, and there are a lot of reasons for that. Because Blue Mountain felt that their contract was really for residential type of material recycling, they were a little bit leery of adding the airport and also feeling like somehow it might end up not being economically feasible for them to accept our waste. So with that great help of the Procurement Department, we got Blue Mountain added to the contract, and the agreement is that they're going to monitor what they're getting from the airport, I think, for a six-month period?
And then if they feel like they can't handle it, we may have to go back and do a new bid, but these three steps are what was standing between us and really getting an airport-wide program going. So now I think we have a system. Initially the Blue Mountain processing seems to be working fine. So our next step is to get these receptacles into all seven terminals. And to handle that, we've been adding some airport staff as well to do that internal hauling out to the airfield.
And that's why I was kind of reluctant to give a date, because one of the hurdles we've had to manage is restaffing. We have a 64 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 certain class that's been assigned for the recycling tasks, these semi-skilled workers 'cause they have driver's licenses and they can drive vehicles. And it's taken a period of time to get those individuals hired at the airport.
Thank you. I'd like to follow up on what we were talking about earlier, and the comment was that we don't have compactors; we would have to add additional personnel to do some of the hauling. Have you had a serious conversation with the Streets Department to see exactly where they could fit into this program? I assume they have some basic responsibility at the airport to pick up a certain amount of trash, like any other -- Well, you're shaking your head, but maybe that conversation 65 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 needs to happen to take advantage of the Streets Department's personnel, equipment, and contracts that are already in place. So I would appreciate it that you do engage with, whether it's the Managing Director's Office or the Streets Department, to see how they can fit into the challenge that you're explaining today.
I think that's a great idea. And the good news is that in our new organizational structure, you're probably aware that I'm reporting to the same person that Commissioner Tolson is reporting to, Rhina Cutler, the Deputy Mayor. And, frankly, I have not had that conversation, but Commissioner Tolson was instrumental in encouraging the Procurement Commissioner to add us to the Blue Mountain contract, so to that extent, we have exchanged some information. 66 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 I think Allen may have some additional comment on that question.
Thank you. Mr. Councilman, about a year ago, I had such a conversation with members of the Commissioner Tolson's team in the Streets Department about possibly utilizing the City Streets Department recycling fleet to make pickups at the airport. And one of the big concerns they had was really the scheduling, whereas they would have to redirect vehicles from their normal route of residential pickups to swing by the airport. Right now, our airport compactor vehicle picks up at the terminals roughly every couple of hours throughout the course the day. Obviously, we don't like placing trash just on the curbside; we need to keep it contained. We generate trash 24/7. So we do multiple pickups during the 67 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 day. So the Streets Department thought that that was really at the time a hardship for them to redirect, again, redirect their vehicles to come by and pick up. But right now, they have no pickup responsibility at the airport. We collect everything with our compactor vehicle and, as I said before, haul it over to the City's waste facility. Chairman Kenney did ask me earlier about utilizing our vehicles to haul the waste or the recyclables, as opposed to having compactors on site, and one of the differences between our operation and the Streets Department, where their vehicles are picking up in residences over a large area, really, are collection operations are concentrated just in one relatively small geographic area at the airport. So our goal was to centralize 68 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 all of the collected materials into compactors on the airfield that can subsequently be hauled in bulk by a vendor, particularly as we start adding partners in the airlines in the other agencies and start taking on their recycling waste. The goal was to centralize that collection and then provide for economies of scale by bulk hauling as opposed to us making multiple trips with our trucks.
Chairman Kenney's question is what motivated me to ask that. Could we get a commitment, though? Because recycling in the Streets Department has really developed in the last year. Since that initial conversation, more equipment, more people, single-stream, so maybe they could provide a service and lessen the number of contracts necessary to be supportive of what you do there. So I would appreciate it if 69 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 you at least would have that conversation again to see if anything has changed.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I'd like your permission to ask a question of Mr. Isdell. It's not relevant to the issue that we're discussing today, but I thought since we have Mr. Isdell here, that it's a great opportunity for me to get this question out.
And it has to do with the service that you provide for people who are injured or handicapped or elderly people who have a hard time walking from the terminal 70 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 to the gates or from the plane to the baggage compartment, the baggage area. I would like to know, what are the hours of operation for that service?
It actually varies. The service is actually not provided by the airport; it's provided by your individual airline.
And I'm not sure -- I mean, most of the airlines operate from approximately 6 in the morning till about 11 at night, and I would assume that they have staff to do the wheelchair assistance for those types of hours. But some of the airlines don't 71 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 have that much activity. Like USAirways is two-thirds of our passengers, Southwest is another 5 percent. Some of the others might 6 have such a small daily schedule that 7 the hours are limited. 8 The way that's supposed to 9 work is, when you make your 10 reservation, you actually make an 11 individual arrangement, a reservation 12 for someone to provide that assistance from the airline. So it may not actually work on a daily schedule; it may be a case-by-case basis. But we could certainly look into that, unless one of the other panelists knows the answer. I could find that out for you and get back to you.
I wish you would look into that because I know these are scheduled flights. They're flights that come in at 11 o'clock, 12 midnight, or whatever, and they do 72 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 it daily. The problem that I see is that people, when they get off that plane, they were told that there isn't any service like that after, I think it's, o'clock or o'clock. Now, I guess 8 that was the individual airline that 9 put those hours in there. But I think that we have to provide that service for as long as the people are going to need it, which it means that their flight may not arrive until midnight and they're on their own. Evidently, the airlines, they don't have to do anything.
Right. We do have -- we have an ADA committee that meets monthly, and this issue has been a topic at a lot of those meetings. We have established a -- like a help line for people to call, because the most frequent comment we get is they can't reach anybody at the airline. 73 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089
Well, I would recommend that the airlines pitch in in saying okay, that we could provide the service if anyone calls a number and then maybe have a cart sent out to that gate to bring those people in the baggage areas. Maybe they can share that cost after 8 o'clock at night or 9 o'clock at night, whatever it is. Because this is a problem. There are a lot of people who travel and don't arrive until probably 10, 11, 12 midnight, or after.
You're absolutely right. And the percentage of people that are seniors who travel has increased dramatically in recent years.
Yes, that's true. And the carters aren't getting any smaller; they're getting longer and longer. So I would appreciate anything you can do in that regard.
Thank you very 74 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 much, Councilman.
So what would you believe would be our anticipated recycling rate with the concourse recycling fully implemented by this time next year? Do you have a number in mind?
Well, I would like to -- if we're looking at two-and-a- half percent really with one concourse, and that concourse wasn't even up and running until this year, so the two-and-a-half percent was for 2007. I mean, I would like to shoot for a double-digit number, at least 10, but I don't want to put Calvin into a possible situation. (Addressing Mr. Davenger.) Do you think that's reasonable?
Very good. Thank you. 75 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089
Okay. Thank you very much for your testimony. Mr. Edwin Maker and Mr. Richards Keller. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good morning. And thank you for coming up to see us, and please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your presentation.
Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. My name is Richard Keller. I'm the Manager of Recycling for the Maryland Environmental Service.
What we'll do this morning is to walk you through a presentation that we put together and 76 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 that we have used in a number of presentations around the country outlining the basics of our program and then take whatever questions that you might have on the program.
And we'll try and walk through these slides relatively quickly, so if we can go onto the next slide. Maryland Environmental Service is a state agency and a not-for-profit corporation. We've been in business since 1970. We do just about everything that you can imagine in the environmental field. Most notably, we do water and waste-water projects; we run a number of those facilities around the state. We do dredging projects and pretty much everything in the solid-waste field. Our program with the Maryland Aviation Administration has been in existence since 1995. We work with 77 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 Baltimore-Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport and Martin State Airport, which is a much smaller airport, with their recycling projects. And I would say, for the purposes of our discussion this morning, most of what we're going to be talking about is what is happening at BWI. At BWI, we have 33 front-end containers on the airfield and cargo ramp for corrugated plastic and aluminum, and the corrugated now includes a whole group of other paper products. And we also have 43 recycling containers inside the terminal for passengers. And we'll see examples of both of those containers. Under our agreement with the Maryland Aviation Administration, these are the things that the Maryland Environmental Service does. 78 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 Number one, we analyze the material in the solid-waste and recycling containers twice a month, so we are actually out on the airfield twice a month looking at every trash container and every recycling container. So we are seeing what the flow is and what kinds of materials are there. We also have been doing for several years now a weekly inspection of one compactor from the airfield. For those of you who have ever looked inside a compactor, the problem is that the area that you're looking at is probably no bigger than the desks that we're sitting at. So in order to try and give us a better picture of what's actually coming into the trash compactors, we actually go to Allied, which is our hauler. They actually dump the material out on their tipping floor, and we actually look at and take 79 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 pictures of what is happening in the airfield. We make recommendations on improvements to the program; that's an ongoing process. We discuss the program at monthly tenant meetings, which not only includes food and retail vendors but also includes the airlines. We have meetings with tenants to involve them as partners with the program. We've done a number of programs with employee training. We do monthly reports, including the recycling rate, and we look at areas of purchases of environmentally preferrable products. Next. This particular slide is an example of one of the areas of at the airport, and what you see is that most of the trash compactors have shoots that come from the terminal itself that go directly into those compactors, and then the white units that you see are the recycling 80 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 containers for paper or containers. And those are the ones that we mentioned earlier that are located throughout the airport. Some of the products that are being recycled: We're doing OCC, and I was at a hearing the other day where somebody asked me what OCC was. So OCC is old corrugated containers; ONP is old newspaper and paper. Aluminum, glass and plastic, scrap metal, tires, fluorescents, grease, yard debris, and we are expecting later this month to begin our program for food composting. Now, I mentioned the program that we do where we actually look in the compactors themselves, and these are some examples, and I will state to amplify the point that these were earlier in the program, but this is an indication of what we actually saw in some of the compactors. This is one of my favorites slides 'cause it shows you that 81 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res.
080089 somebody went through all the trouble to fold the cardboard up and make it nice and neat, and then they didn't do the last step, which is putting it in the recycling container as opposed to the compactor. Another example: Same thing, where somebody again went to the trouble of breaking the boxes down, which is usually the more difficult of the problems, and yet it still ended up in the compactor. This is one of those areas that we're constantly trying to work with the airlines on, and that is the area of the magazines that are generated each month and end up being unsold. It's a significant problem because, as you can see -- and this is from one of the compactors -- there's probably a dozen packages that are visible there and, as you can see, they're still in their original containers and have not been recycled. 82 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089
No, no. This is the material that's coming -- this is your monthly whatever the name of the magazine is that you would get off of one of the airlines.
And they were throwing that away, yes. And that's still a constant battle that we're working on. Some of the recycling numbers. We went from, as was mentioned in the beginning of the testimony this morning, 4-3/4 in February of 2004. Most of our increases have been in the area of old corrugated containers. 33 percent, and we have met the state recycling goal for more than three years. We've put this slide in. This is something that we've been doing 83 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 more recently in our presentations is, what it is that has made the effort at BWI Thurgood Marshall unique? We don't have any magic formulas. We don't have anything that we've done, I don't think, that's any different than what other airports are doing, but we really think there's three keys to the success. Number one is the partnership among all the key players at the airport, and we'll talk about that partnership in just a moment. Continual training of employees. And then the third area is, Maryland Aviation Administration controls everything, both solid-waste- and recycling-related. So in other words, they are in control of all of the waste, so it's not something that we have to go to each individual airline, each individual tenant; they all share the same facilities that you 84 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 saw earlier. Partnership, we think, is really the key to all of this, and when we talk about some of the awards that we've won, you'll notice the word "partnership" comes back into play again. Maryland Aviation Administration obviously is the agency that runs the airport. BAA is the tenant-manager of the airport that manages the stores and the food concessions; they've been very actively involved in the program with us. Allied, who is our local hauler, has been very helpful in terms of making the program work. The tenants, including the airlines, have been involved in this particular program. I wanted to mention, in response to some of the questions that came up earlier about what's happening 85 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 at BWI, the airlines are able to use the recycling containers that you saw earlier, so they have the ability to do that. We also, much like what you heard from here in Philadelphia, we are now beginning to have the airlines come to us to expand the recycling programs. We've met recently with both Delta and AirTran, and we've also found out that Southwest Airlines has an existing program where they've been doing both corrugated and aluminum, and we're now starting to capture those numbers, which we can then fold into our recycling program. One of the things that you have to recognize when you're looking at getting airlines to participate is that one of the things that they're struggling with and they're trying to deal with is that every airport's recycling program is different, every airport's configuration is different, 86 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 and as they're trying to roll out programs, they're trying to figure out the programs at each particular location so that they know how to recycle at that particular facility. So that's one of the challenges that we're working with the airlines on is that, for example, both Delta and AirTran are very active in Atlanta but their programs in Atlanta are going to be different from what they are at BWI just simply by the configuration of the airport, the way that we manage the waste, et cetera. Chimes is our company; it's a developmentally-disabled group that does our cleaning pickups. Midpoint International is the one that manufactured the containers inside the terminal, which we'll see a little bit later. And then, as I mentioned, Maryland Environmental Service, with our efforts, to provide the technical 87 5/5/08 - ENVIRONMENT - Res. 080089 assistance.