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Good morning, everyone. We will start momentarily.
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Good morning, everyone. My name is Bill Bergman, and I will be chairing the ZBA hearing this
morning. With me is our board member, Cheryl L. Gaston. Present, Mr. Chairman. Our board member,
Tanetta Graham. Present, Mr. Chairman. Our board member, Michael Johns. Present, Mr. Chairman.
And our board member, Taya Nguyen. Present, Mr. Chairman. Also, here is our attorney,
Hilary Emerson, and Ian Haggerty, our board director, and our board administrator,
Fisher Lakeisha Dandy. And later this morning, we also will have Ryan McSherry with us as our
attorney. A recording of this hearing will be posted on the ZBA website. By participating,
you consent to be recorded. This is an in-person meeting with remote capabilities.
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then wait to be sworn in. Once you've been sworn in, please state your name each time before
testifying any person may enter their appearance to become an interested party there are three
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or you can call the zba appearance line by the close of business tomorrow call 267-270-5548
leave a message that includes your email address the address of the property in question
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number six mi 2024 006 028 429 north 53rd street um hillary do we call this or just schedule it
number number six is um 429 north it's the resumptive hearing
we're gonna hear it okay all right sorry about that number eight mi 2024 006050
2979 east chelton avenue that case is continued cases continued to 2 11 26 at 9 30 a.m
And number 10.
hillary we're ready to move on number 10 um no mr chair if we could call the um attorney for
number 10 we are missing most of the required mi2025-009-992-9768 re-road david anika caro is
the attorney good morning chair this is jasmine and i will be your co-host for this morning's
session david has been promoted to panelists good morning board could you please state your name
and spell for the stenographer yes sir uh my name is david anna carico uh d-a-v-i-d last name a-n-n-e
c-h-a-r-i-c-o
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
i do um council um we're missing quite a few documents from you
and we believe we're gonna have to continue the case
i uh thank you uh we definitely want to get this right uh i'm a a volunteer with the church
and uh i want to make sure we get this right this is signage for uh a building that was
purchased from a synagogue and if uh you there was some uh contact point that uh i might have
to make sure sure what what i would want you to do is to call the office and the office will tell
you everything that you need so that the next time we have this hearing we can we can move forward
with it okay so this this case is going to be continued to 2 11 26 at 9 30 a.m got it thank
you very much sir thank you okay bye-bye are there any other requests for continuances
chair i have a hand up from joseph oh never mind i have a hand up from zinjin i'm going to allow
them to speak. Good morning. Good morning, Counselor. Could you please state your name
and spell for the stenographer? Yes, my name is Zenjian, Z-H-E-N-J-I-N.
Hold on, hold on. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
I do. Are you here for 10th Street? I am here for 10th Street, but the request for continuance
is actually for 7161 State Road,
which I'm not entered as an appearance attorney yet.
I was reached out yesterday by the owner of the property
to retain me as the attorney on this case.
All right, so that's number four.
And I was getting ready to call that.
Just for a point of information,
we do not have any exhibits for this, okay?
Understood, thank you.
So MI 2024-005-976-7161-69 State Road.
This case is continued to 211-26.
Thank you, Counsel.
And excuse me, Chair.
Mr. Jinn, we will enter your name as appellant attorney on that appeal.
Any other requests for continuance?
Yes, Chair.
I have a hand up from Vern Anastasio.
They will be allowed to speak.
good morning mr chair members good morning council could you please state your name
and spell for the stenographer yes sir it's verne anastasio a-n-a-s-t-a-s-i-o
um do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
i do what what case call um raise my hand about 2021 stenton avenue
I believe it was scheduled for
Mr. Anastasia, we're going to address
that case with the add-ons.
Thank you. Just wanted to get it continued.
That's all. Thank you. Yes, it will be continued.
You'll hear that shortly. Thank you. Any other requests for
continuous? Yes, Chair. I have a phone number
ending in 3552. They have been allowed to speak.
Good morning.
Hello.
Good morning.
Could you please state your name and spell for the stocker?
Yes, Adrian Fernandez.
My last name is spelled F-E-R-N-A-N-D-E-Z.
All right.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
What case are you interested in?
I want to know if 2125 West Cambria Street requests a continuance or sent in the required
the required documents we have no um information about a public meeting being completed
documents. We have no information about a public meeting being completed.
yeah i'm gonna so
so you have no documents am i correct so we have no exhibit we have none let me let me call the
listed owner um the representative for 2020 incorporated is the listed owner and mr chair
This is MI-2024-006-032-2125 Cambria Street.
We also have Latoya Lloyd as the listed applicant.
I see no hands at this time, and I also see no one in the audience with that name.
Okay. We're going to continue this case one more time. So MI 2024-006-032-2125 West Cambria
Street. Cases continue to 2-11-26 at 930. Mark must be heard. Thank you.
number one mi 2023 003 719 849 north new kirk street this is the fifth listing we have no
exhibits laura brown is the listed owner applicant i see no one in the audience with that named
here. Thank you. So, MI
2023-003-719-849
North Newkirk Street, I vote to dismiss.
Michael Johns, my
vote is to dismiss.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is to dismiss.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is to dismiss.
Taya Nguyen, my vote is to dismiss.
Number three,
MI 2024-003-378-2628
South Watt Street.
Joseph Vaccaro is the attorney.
we have no exhibits as third listing and mr chair can we just um we have not heard from the attorney
i don't see him in the audience um we do have an interpreter for this case if we could call
the interpreter to see if the applicants here could the spanish interpreter for this case please come
on good morning your honor my name is leonel spelled as an l-e-o-n-e-l last name gillen
spelled as in G-U-I-L-L-E-N.
Do you solemnly swear or affirm that you interpret accurately, completely and impartially
from English to Spanish and from Spanish to English to the best of your ability?
I swear.
Thank you. So I've called this case. There is an attorney named Joseph Ficarro
and the listed owner is Joseph Fiore.
Muy bien, estamos llamando al caso. Tenemos un abogado, Joseph Acaro, y al dueño registrado, a Joseph Fiore.
is there anyone in the audience
hay alguien en la audiencia con esos nombres joseph acaro el abogado y joseph fiore como el
dueño registrado no one in the audience with that name chair thank you so this is our third
listening, we still do not have documents. MI 2024-003-378-2628 South Watt Street, I vote
to dismiss. Michael Johns, my vote is to dismiss. Cheryl Gaston, my vote is to dismiss. Tenetta
Graham, my vote is to dismiss. Iowyn, my vote is to dismiss. Interpreter, could you somehow
put that together for us? Yes, Your Honor. Muy bien, este es, muy bien, este es el tercero
la lista. Este es el caso número MI
024-003-378-2628
de South Watch Street.
Mi voto es
para desestimarlo.
Terper, thank you very much.
We appreciate your help.
It's a pleasure. Have a beautiful day, Your Honor.
Thank you. Number four.
MI 2024
005-976-7161-69
State Route.
did we do that already continue okay we're ready to start then right
number one in our add-on list mi 2024 007 539 5236 north broad street i vote yes
temporary variance to expire august 1st 2028
Michael Johns, my vote is yes
with proviso
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes with Proviso.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes
with proviso
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with proviso
Teneda Graham, my vote is yes with Proviso.
Diane Wynne, my vote is yes with Proviso.
Spanish interpreter, please come back on.
Hello, this is Stephen, and I'll be the Spanish interpreter.
Okay, Stephen, could you please state your name and spell for the Spanish?
Yes, my name is Stephen Aubain, S-T-E-V-E-N, last name A-U-B-A-I-N.
All right. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that you will interpret accurately, completely, and impartially from English to Spanish and from Spanish to English to the best of your ability?
Yes, I do.
All right. So MI 2025, and when we vote this, please interpret after each person votes. So MI 2025, 000-941-1241 Adams Avenue, I vote no.
So for MI 2025-000941, the direction 1241 Adams Avenue, I vote no.
Michael Johns, my vote is no.
Michael Johns, my vote is no.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.
Tannetta Graham, my vote is no.
Tannetta Graham, my vote is no.
Tyowyn, my vote is no.
Tyowyn, my vote is no.
interpreter thank you very much we appreciate your help all right thank you for using the service
thank you number three mi 2024-006-699-2021 stenton avenue
um we are reopening the record we will continue this for a reopen resumptive hearing
that will be on 12 16 25. At what time Mr. Chair 9 30 a.m. 9 30 thank you
we're going to go to our regular list and we're going to start with number 12
mi-2025-004-154-1541 south dover street alan knockups is the attorney this is appeal against
l and i leonard reuter is also present we're representing the city and l and i
mr knockupson could you please state your name as spelled for the sonographer yes uh good morning
Mr. Chair, members of the board, Alan Nockamson, A-L-A-N, Nockamson, N-O-C-H-U-M-S-O-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Mr. Reuter?
Good morning. May it please the board, Leonard F. Reuter, R-E-U-T-E-R, Senior Attorney, City
of Philadelphia.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Mr. Nockamson, we'll start with Mr. Nockamson?
uh yes i mean i my understanding is that the that the city has no first of all no objection
to the uh granting of the lni appeal it might be faster uh just to indicate this is an appeal
against lni challenging the notice of intent to revoke uh zoning kermit uh zp 2024-009703
that had been issued May 28th 2025 the notice of intent to revoke was May 30th
2025 normally that would not present any real problem if we just issued the
permit and revoked it right away but there was kind of a number of issues
that occurred all the way probably most significantly the city concedes that a
A residential building permit had been issued for the project in January.
Can you speak a little bit more into the microphone?
I'm sorry. I can barely hear you.
Yeah, a residential building permit had been issued for the construction project back in January.
The zoning permit application had already been submitted, I think, at the end of 2024, at the end of 2024.
so long story short a building permit was erroneously issued back in January along with I
think a plumbing permit and I think electrical permit there had been an excavation permit which
doesn't necessarily rely upon a zoning permit although typically it does so basically by May
their construction had proceeded on the property and it's not clear I've been unable to determine
why it took five months for the zoning permit to get issued it's likely that
zoning permit to get issued it's likely that it probably should have been issued earlier and there
it probably should have been issued earlier
was some kind of hold up whatever um but the city does concede that construction had taken place
uh and was completed up to a certain point i think it was fully framed by the time we issued
the notice of intent to revoke and so the city would simply defer to the discretion of the board
to make its determination as what whether as a matter of fact a significant amount of work took
place that they have vested their right to the zoning permit. I believe Mr. Nockamson has some
photos and other things and that, you know, so we're not really contesting.
I guess. Yeah. So, Hillary, should we let Mr. Nockamson put a
few things on the record? Yes, please. Mr. Nockamson? Yes. So,
may I share my screen? You can. All right. Thank you.
So, with me also is
one of the representatives from my client,
Ferdavs Kanatov, who can verify what I will be stating today.
All right, so in my presentation materials, I have first a permanent refrication notice
that Mr. Reuter referenced.
We actually did provide proposed findings of fact and conclusions of law to help the
board understand the facts and the relevant law, we have two theories in which we're asking the
board to consider to grant the LNI appeal. First is vested rights, and the other legal theory is
variance by estoppel. They kind of go hand in hand. Ultimately, if we detrimentally relied on
these building permits in good faith, built, spent a significant amount of money under both legal
doctrines the board should grant the lni appeal i also made it easier too for the board to understand
the timeline of the permitting and mr reuter you know stated some of that for some reason
we put the cart before the horse here where we got a building permit uh first and then we got
the zoning permit but then we got other permits my clients spend almost 180 000 on this project
uh and there were even though there were inspections where you can see that they this
zoning permit probably should not have been issued or the building permit should not have been issued
as of right um it was we spent significant resources it took them almost five months
uh to uh revoke it and then we just look at the property history maps of the area photographs of
the property in the surrounding area our l and i appeal our uh deed to the property uh showing
that my client owns it and a certificate
of tax clearance.
I don't want to belabor the point
in that
there is proposed findings of fact
and conclusions of law. I think it's pretty straightforward.
I would just ask my client
a couple things about how much he spent,
how much it would cost to
remediate this.
Why don't we bring him?
He's online?
He should. He should be online.
Do we see his hand?
No, I don't see.
They're coming in as a panelist.
Thank you.
Hello?
Good morning.
Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yeah, it's a F-I-R-D-A-V-S-K-A-N-O-A-T-O-V, Firdavs Kanoatov.
Could you turn on your video, please?
Yes, please.
One sec.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Yes. For Dobbs, first of all, is it correct that you spent approximately so far $182,704 on the construction of this building structure that's in front of the board right now?
Yes, I do.
Okay. And is it also true that in order to remediate the situation and provide the eight-foot setback on the third story, it would cost almost $50,000 to do so?
And then also, isn't it true that you hired a licensed architect to make these submissions for your zoning permit and building permit?
And you continued construction over five months in reliance of those zoning permits and building permits?
and if you would have known that you weren't able to build straight up on the third story
you probably would not have invested in this real estate development project correct yes all right
thank you you're welcome any questions from the board
Any questions from the board?
If I could just ask one question so it's clear in the record.
Sir, can you see the screen that's being shared by Mr. Nocklinson?
It's okay if you can't.
just say
you can't
I can see everything
and was the property
fully framed out and
was this the condition of the property
on or about May
lots of them
almost done, the windows
already installed and doors already
installed
it's a yeah everything is framing is almost done yeah thank you you're welcome anything from our
attorney um no mr chair that the board wants to just hold us to decide how it wants to um okay
yeah i do have i do have a question the building on the right was that where was that in construction
at the point that you started construction
or that you submitted for your building permit?
For Dov's, yes, board member John's asked the question about construction.
Do you remember where the building on the right was,
the newly constructed building,
where it was in construction when you commenced construction?
They have started.
They have started and the construction was going.
going on there as well what about at the point you submitted for your building permit
uh when when submit the building permit uh i i saw that they they have started it was not framing
it uh that would there was the the i think the the the they they were in foundation i submit
I bought the property, I see that it's a new properties are started there. And I applied. So my architect started and applied for the for the project and everything was confirmed. So I found the investors and I got my money from the bank and start the project.
All right, thank you.
You're welcome.
All right, so we're going to hold this vote until next Wednesday, and we'll vote at 9.30 a.m.
All right, thank you very much.
Sure, thank you. Thank you both.
Thank you.
We're going to go to number two.
MI 2024-002-461-532-North 10th Street.
Zen Jin is the attorney.
Xenjin will be rejoining us as a panelist.
Good morning.
Good morning, counsel.
I already swore you in one state.
Just for the record, state your name.
Yes, my name is Xenjin, Z-H-E-N-J-I-N.
Could you identify your client or relationship to the property?
Yes, my client is 532 North 10th Street, LLC, the owners of the property.
All right.
Do you waive the reading of the refusal and agree with its accuracy?
Could you please start your presentation?
Yes, thank you.
I'm going to share with the board the information previously submitted in this case.
Can the board see my screen on theirs?
We can.
Thank you.
So this is an application for what is currently a vacant lot at the location of 532 North 10th Street.
This particular lot is located near Spring Garden Street.
And because of its location and what is surrounding the property now as far as uses, my client initially proposed to put up a new structure with a commercial space on the first floor and three units above.
I want to let the board know that, of course, this is being a CMX1 district, that the additional unit for the residential is not permitted, and there was a height restriction as well.
However, when my client had met with the community, there were extensive discussions between the community and my client, both as far as.
There were extensive discussions between the community and my client, both as far as the use, as well as some changes to the proposed structure.
And upon reaching a consensus on the changes, the community issued its non-opposition in this particular matter.
At the initial meeting, the community was split as far as what is being proposed.
However, what we have done is to reduce, one, the number of residential units from requested of three down to two, and also make changes to the facade of the structure to more closely fit what is nearby.
So I'm showing the board the photograph of the lot as it exists right now.
you can see right there in the picture that on that end is Spring Garden Street. There are many
larger structures of course on Spring Garden. We're around the corner on 10th Street and further
down 10th Street there are mostly three-story structures some of which newer construction a
little bit taller and is actually consistent with our height that we're requesting. Across the street
you can see further down some residential units as well and on this block on 10th street there
are multiple units that are built with more than single family use so the duplex above the
commercial isn't out of character with what is in the area because of its near location to spring
Garden where larger commercial units exist. And because of the nature of 10th Street, having
more commercial further down the block, but also more residential going the other direction towards
the north, there was a little bit of a split on what is best for that location. However,
the consensus with the neighborhood is that a commercial on the first floor would make sense
due to its proximity to Spring Garden.
We have submitted a revised proposal plans form
based on the changes to the board,
and we have also submitted revised plans
with this updated application.
Primarily, the front facade has been changed
from the original proposal,
which included a bay window and paneling,
to the brick design that is consistent with the neighbors.
The commercial space is maintained as the original design.
The unit count was reduced.
What we have done is the original proposal had the commercial space for first floor and
the basement for storage, a second unit on the second floor, and then the third floor
and fourth floor each had its own unit.
We have combined the top two floors into a larger unit with a master bedroom.
and maintain the second floor as a smaller unit.
This is consistent to what the community wanted.
The community also specifically wanted the rooftop deck removed and no pilot house,
which both changes were made so that the roof no longer has either a deck or a pilot house as part of our proposal.
So with all that, we have received the community's non-opposition and support for the proposal.
Again, the neighboring property, the neighboring property currently are undeveloped lots.
However, the owner of those properties and my clients have actually spoken and worked together.
And in the future, the plans are that they would likely come for the same almost identical proposals as my client is doing today because of the corner location of these properties, the size and the nature of having some commercial near Spring Garden being very viable.
The actual commercial space is vacant right now, but the proposal really is my client's
own business, which currently occupies a space right on the corner of Spring Garden, would
open their office, display office, on the first floor.
However, that is not on the application, so we're not requesting the board to put that
in specifically as part of this request.
Here is the original facade look along with the pilot house.
As you can see, we removed this.
And we completely changed the front to a full rate break.
So that is essentially the revised proposal.
We're asking the board's favorable vote in the use as a structure with two residential units, one more than what is permitted by CMX1 due to a neighboring small block having single-family houses.
A neighboring small block having single family houses and as well, the height variance, which isn't inconsistent with other buildings already on the block.
My client should be here to verify my testimony, and I'm happy to answer any questions from the board.
Why don't you bring your client on and we'll have your testimony adopted?
I don't know if the husband or the wife is here from the company.
I believe Mr. Liu should be the one here.
Lou Gang has been promoted to penalist.
Thank you.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Could you state your name and spell for the stenographer, please?
Yeah, my name is Lu Wagen, first name L-U-H-U-A, last name G-A-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I did.
Please proceed, counsel.
Thank you.
Ms. Lu, you're a representative of 532 North 10th Street, LLC, correct?
I'm in honor of this property, this law.
Did you see my presentation and hear my representations before the zoning board?
Yeah, yeah, I did.
Okay, can you verify what I have represented to the board is true and correct and adopt it as your own testimony?
Excuse me. Yes, Ms. Zeng is my lawyer for this zoning change.
And you adopt what I have said as true and correct testimony?
Thank you.
Okay, questions from the board.
There is no basement living, correct?
no basement living this is the basement is part of the commercial space okay that's where's the
trash going to be stored for the units and for the commercial space uh there is a uh rear yard
and actually uh the the commercials uh let me put the plan back up
okay um i'm sorry so if you look at the site
one of the design aspects of this is that the property actually is going to have a staircase
in the rear that is accessible by all the all the units so that they can get to the space in the
back in the rear yard where trash will be stored. The commercial space naturally would have their
own area as well in the basement if needed for non-perishable storage, because they're doing
a business of, they make essentially steel gates for houses, security gates, so there will be no
perishable trash from the business.
the questions are the gates stored on site and what is that um shipping and delivery going to
look like so so the gates are not stored on this location this will be a display office only so
there will only be uh displays and an office within this commercial space they actually
own the property on the corner of spring garden that is their primary purchase and
sales location for the gates and then how are all of the tenants reaching this uh fire escape stair
so that they're going to use the alley yes they can exit through the alley they
each their unit have direct access to the stairway in the back okay
other questions
questions from our attorney hillary emberson um mr jinn i just wanted to note um i see there
was a request for revised plans for three pages however only one page was reviewed by ellen i so
if the board grants um it can just um stamp the the one page um updated site plan um we will need
um an updated proviso form if the board grants to just remove the reference to the changes of
the interior design and layout because we cannot stamp those pages that's not a problem i assume
that the limited units would be part of a proviso so we can certainly remove the interior yeah right
Right. It's just the last, I think it's the last bullet on the proviso form. It just mentions the interior layer.
it just it's just the uh the last i think it's the last bullet on the proviso form it just mentions
We will make those changes.
So we can just, you can just remove that last bullet. The rest of them were fine and reflected on the one page of revised plans.
Okay. We will do that. Thank you.
Thank you.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
I see no hands at this time, Chair.
Any commission?
Thank you, Chair Bergman. Sarah Bond with the Philadelphia City Planning Commission. S-A-R-A-H-B-A-N-H.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Please proceed.
The comprehensive plan recommends a change in zoning at this location from CMX 1 Commercial Mixed Use to CMX 2.5 Commercial Mixed Use.
the appellant requests relief to build three multi-family units when one is allowed an
additional height above the allowable 38 feet if the property were zoned cmx 2.5 as recommended
both the unit count and the additional height would be allowed by right
the city planning commission recommends that the board grant the proposed additional dwelling
units and the additional height thank you mi 2024 002 461 532 north 10 street i vote yes
with proviso revived plans one page stamp by zba july 30th 2025 maximum two dwelling units
no roof deck or roof deck access structure commercial trash pickup use registration
required prior to occupancy for vacant commercial space michael johns my vote is yes with provisos
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with provisals.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes, with provisals.
Taya Nguyen, my vote is yes, with provisals.
Thank you, counsel.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Number five, MI 2024, 006027, 4652 Torresdale Avenue.
Tameka McCoy is the attorney.
Tameka McCoy will be rejoining us as a panelist good morning good morning council could you please
state your name is spelled for the stenographer sure good morning Tameka McCoy T-A-M-I-K-A last
name is spelt M-C-K-O-Y. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but
the truth? Yes. Could you identify your client in relationship to the property? Sure. I represent
C-Money Real Estate Company, who is the owner of the property located at 4652 Torresdale Avenue.
The representative of that company is Chris Keir.
I would also mention we have a letter of support from Frankfort neighborhood advisory committee and a letter of non-opposition from council member Lozada.
Do you waive the reading and the refusal? Do you agree with its accuracy?
Yes, I do.
Please start your presentation.
Thank you. I'm going to share my screen.
what we have is the materials that have been submitted um in support of this application
we have the um bead that shows c money real estate company as the owner as i said it's
represented by chris keir here today the purpose of the application is to legalize
an open deck on the first floor of an existing structure.
There were 138 impacted neighbors.
The representation of the board chair
that the community is in support of the project is accurate.
I'm going to show you a photograph
of the front face of the property.
I'm going to zoom out a little.
And what you have here is looking to the left of the property along Toursdale and looking
the other direction.
The project is essentially this open front deck area on the porch.
It is consistent with the other properties immediately adjoining 4652.
This is the view directly across the street, and this is a full view of the property.
This is the view directly across the street.
and this
Essentially, the owner created a concrete path that matches the adjoining property in height and in weight.
Basically, there was a tree stump that was there that had an uneven pavement because of the root system.
that created essentially a trip hazard. What the owner did was eliminate that trip hazard,
making it a smooth surface that's consistent with the neighboring properties within the area.
And it is a single family home. It's intended to be used as a single family home.
This is a depiction of the notice that had been affixed to the property.
and a clearer picture of what the actual cement structure looks like.
Basically, an open deck on the first floor.
These were the plans that had been submitted in support of the deck
and the written letter of support from the community.
And with that, I would ask to have...
Do me a favor, go back to the plans,
and could you sort of turn them around for us?
Yes, sure.
Okay, bring your client on.
Chris here.
I don't see anyone in the audience with that name.
The last name is spelled K-E-A-R.
It's an odd spelling.
Do we see anyone?
No, Chair.
Counsel, you're an officer of the court.
We will take your testimony.
Questions from the board.
So the neighbor did the same thing?
is that is this like a twin yes it's actually a row um but it looks like a twin okay and so the
neighbor and so the neighbor had done theirs previously correct and it looks like a couple
other neighbors have somewhat well i guess the other neighbors kept the front of they're just
retaining walls they just kept his grasp yes all right thank you other questions what's the height
of the new landing above grade it's 24 inches and it was done that way to match
the neighbor that's adjoined and then what's the height of the porch from the
to the porch what's that height difference so there's another it looks
like about six inches between the actual front deck and the porch. And then do you know if they
hired a contractor to do this work or did they pour it themselves? They hired a contractor.
And do you happen to know what the subsurface support is for the concrete? Like did they pour
footings? I am not certain with regard to that. It appears from the drawing that they did.
I mean, not just for the record state, like, I think my biggest concern would be
subsurface soil bearing conditions, as well as water drainage. This is a lot of concrete to put
in a space that was previously pervious. And the fact that all the neighbors seem to have done it
And I looked in Atlas, it doesn't look like anybody's necessarily pulled the permit, that this could create some deterioration issues in the future with just like changing levels and elevation.
But I have no further questions.
Any other questions?
Questions from our attorney?
No, Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
I see no hands at this time, Chair.
Planning Commission.
Thank you, Chair.
Sarah Bond, Philadelphia City Planning Commission.
The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the RM1 residential multifamily zoning at this location.
The proposed use is consistent with nearby properties.
The City Planning Commission recommends that the board grant the proposed use variance for a first floor deck in the required front yard.
the required front yard thank you um council could we request the co for this the deck
Thank you.
Council, could we request the CO...
yes okay who said yes you said yes
well that's that's good enough council for me thank you and my 2024 006 027 4652 tarsdale i
vote yes with proviso she ought to be obtained michael johns my vote is yes with proviso
cheryl gaston my booty chest with proviso tenetta graham my vote is yes with proviso
tywin my vote is yes with proviso
number six mi 2024 006 028 429 north 53rd street alex goldberg is the attorney
good afternoon good morning sorry um council could you um state your name and spell for
the stenographer alex goldberg a-l-e-x-g-o-l-d-b-e-r-g right do you swear or affirm to tell
the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do could you identify your client the
relationship to the property my client is nn4ds llc uh which is the owner of the property and
and its representative, Damone Jones, is sitting to my left.
Do you waive the reading of the refusal and agree with its accuracy?
And we do have a letter of opposition from the 44th Ward,
but the RCO has requested an additional meeting
with the applicant community prior to the vote.
That's right.
Could you please start your presentation?
I'm going to share my screen.
As I said, Mr. Damone Jones is sitting to my left at the conclusion of the presentation.
I'll ask him to adopt my testimony.
The property address is 429 North 53rd Street, and we are seeking two variances, one for
two-family living in an RSA 5 zoning classification and the other for side yard width.
this block is about 36 34 to 36 percent multifamily all of which are duplexes which
is consistent with what we're asking for and this lot specifically is the last vacant lot
on the block it's also the biggest by square footage and lot width it's the last on the
block to be occupied it's the only vacant lot it's directly across from a mechanic or a junkyard
we're not really sure um and again we're asking for two units we met with the coordinating rco
on july 9th um the majority of the conversation in that meeting was between uh obviously um myself
and mr jones the the head of the group the adjacent neighbor to the right and the block
captain who lives a little bit further down the block um we got the sense and later sort of was
confirmed that the majority of that opposition from those two individuals was uh more interpersonal
than regarding the specifics of the project um obviously you know they took a vote and and issued
a letter of their position of the outcome of that meeting since that first community uh public
meeting damon met with those two individuals and several several other neighbors you know just as
a friendly neighborly meeting um last week my understanding from you know what what i was told
by mr jones was that they're now in support of the project you know some things needed to be
cleared it was positive i relayed that to the 44th ward uh rco leader um you know obviously
he took the position that at the public meeting the position was opposition so obviously that's
what my letter is going to say but if you'd like to have a resumption resumptive hearing so that
we can all we can confirm that understanding we'd like to have you back so um that's what we'd ask
for a brief resumptive hearing we've also put together a cba that we're going to discuss at
that future community meeting um so that's the background info this is the notice of refusal
as i mentioned um one for two family living the other for side yard width the side yard
with refusal is technically self-inflicted um my understanding is we could have built sort of lot
line to lot line attached um if you're not attached you need to have a five foot side yard
we have a three foot four inch side yard we did that because a we wanted to have more windows on
the side and also the property next to us is the only other property on the block that has a side
yard so it allows their windows to have some more natural light by not going that extra three feet
or extra you know distance to the to the lot line and also um we'd agreed to trash
um we'd agreed to trash storage stored in the rear everyone has access back to front so that
storage stored in the rear everyone has access back to
that can be that can be stored in a weatherproof uh area in the rear yard so those are the two
refusals here's that letter from the coordinating rco um you can see in in his letter what was
discussed discussed trash management rent um management of the property he's going to self
manage these these units he also owns the two-family dwelling directly to the left of the
property um and you know at the bottom they they basically state that we'd like to have an
additional meeting and we're agreeable to that we do have eight letters of support from near neighbors
on this block um those are are here for the board's reference here's a map showing the other
multi-family multi-family properties on the block there are nine of them including directly to the
left and sort of scattered throughout the block at uh 401 410 423 428 431 439 455 and 459 north
53rd street those rental licenses are included in the packet for the record as well an aerial view
of the property as i mentioned this is the last vacant lot on the block it's been vacant since at
least 96 about 30 years ago zoning map another map for the board here's some photographs so this
is what the front of the property looks like you can see this property to the right they have a
small side yard as well it's a it's slightly under five feet and you can see the windows on their
party wall not party wall but on their their left wall and their side yard basically ends where the
gate here ends, if you can see that. The rest of the lot is ours. Posting photo.
Here's the plans and drawings, so we're not going any deeper than the property
to the left or the right of us. We have a 10-foot rear yard. Importantly, two-story structure, front
porch, brick. You know, architecturally, you can see in this top corner, we're really trying to
just match architecturally exactly what's characteristic on the block, make it look
like it's always been there attaching our porch sort of triangle to the one to the left of us
see that three foot four inch side yard there as well
here's the floor plans this is slab on grade so no no serious excavation will be need needed here
you know some minor site prep both units are two two bedroom one bath about a thousand square feet
the front porch leads to a common vestibule to the right you have a living dining and kitchen
area at the front of the property a bathroom in the middle and two bedrooms at the rear
and then above you have a similar layout you don't have the staircase going as far back but
you have living living kitchen and dining at the front two bedrooms in the rear excuse me
and washers and dryers in each unit as well it's the rco meeting notice we had a meeting
on july 9th it was emailed out to the relevant parties 151 neighbors were notified mailing
certificates, our application for appeal, deed to the property, and tax clearance.
So with that, I'd ask Mr. Damone Jones to adopt my testimony.
Sir, could you please state your name?
Turn on the mic first and then pull it real close.
You just pull it to you.
Perfect.
Pull it towards you.
Could you please state your name and spell for the stenography?
My name is Damone Jones, D-A-M-O-N-E, last name Jones, J-O-N-E-S.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Damone, did you hear my testimony today?
And was it true and correct?
And you adopted as your own?
And is there anything else regarding the more recent meeting with the neighbors that you just recently had that you'd like to express to the board?
I know that we'll report back.
Like I said, I was with them yesterday.
day the uh the lady who's you know like really runs the block and she said the first meeting they
had was more about them trying to describe to them building from the ground up which nobody
understood so you know she had a meeting with me and she said if you can you know they have a they
they haven't had uh group meetings for about six months and they started up again so she said the
next one is in about three weeks so I'll be able to go and talk to everybody involved and she said
Because they were both, you know, they were both said they were on board.
But the meeting, you know, when everybody met, they met before and kind of nobody, somebody
took over whoever the guy was and was just explaining to them how to build from the ground
up, which they said they were clueless.
And they asked me questions about the vegetation, where the trash was going to go, questions like that.
And they asked me questions about the vegetation, where the trash was going to go.
All right.
Questions from the board.
Where's the trash going to go?
In the back.
I have, like, room on the side and also room in the back for the trash.
So it's accessible for both units.
We have that three-foot-four-inch side yard that is accessible to everyone.
But I do want to say that I appreciate the fact that your design is matching the existing neighbor to the left.
Yeah. So often we see folks come in with a completely different design that ignores the fabric of the block and the neighborhood. But the fact that you're being sensitive to the next door property and the neighborhood, I think, speaks volumes for what you're trying to do.
Yes. Other questions?
i have a question about the total width so it looks like the house the new house will be 16
about 16 feet wide plus the three foot sidewalk so the whole width of the lot is closer to 20 20
feet two inches it looked narrow on the floor yeah and then do you know how wide the side yard is on
the other neighbor's side about three about three feet about three feet i measured it on like the
Atlas tool, it's like between
three and four feet. Okay, so it's about the same
size, so there'll be about
six, maybe six, seven feet
total from window to window.
Correct. And then are you planning to put
anything, well, one, are you planning to manage
the property yourself? Yes.
Are you planning to put window treatments on both
floors, given the windows face
each other? Yes. Yes. Okay.
Questions or comments from our attorney?
No, chair.
questions or comments from the virtual audience i see no means at this time chair planning commission
thank you chair sarah bond with the philadelphia city planning commission
the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the rsa 5 residential single family zoning at this
location there is no unique physical condition or circumstance of this property that would prevent
it from being used excuse me in strict conformity with the zoning code planning staff are aware of
several duplexes on this block face however the majority of the homes are single family
the city planning commission recommends that the board deny the proposed used variants for
two dwelling units um yeah so you know um thank you i would just you know ask the board to consider
the fact that a large portion of the block is multi-family and a commercial use is directly
across from the property which might indicate why this specific lot has not been developed for 30
years um and you know obviously we hope to be coming back to you with community support right
right so um council there's obviously two different ways we could do this um we can have
a resumptive hearing or we can close everything's closed other than a letter from the rco and if
need be your response to that is right so correct so i think what we're going to do with this is
everything is closed on this um we'll wait for an rco letter um need be you'll have a chance to
respond but everything else is closed and i'm not going to set a date on this right now and uh
obviously just get back to the staff when you're ready to roll with this okay thank you thank you
very much, sir. Thank you.
Number nine, MI 2024
006066, 1921
Nahr Street. Tanetta Graham
is going to handle this case.
Thank you, Chair.
We're looking
for Daniel
Muklowitz.
If you're in the audience,
just raise your hand.
Daniel, last name starting with M, is being promoted to a panelist.
Good morning, board members. My name is Daniel McLevich. I'm here today on behalf of
the owner of the property, Celine Payne. And Mr. Payne is here today to verify my testimony.
Okay. So can you state your name again and spell it for the record?
My name is Daniel, D-A-N-I-E-L, last name McClevage, M-U-K-L-E-W-I-C-Z.
And do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
All right.
Can you identify your client and their relationship to the property again?
My client is Selene Payne.
He is the record owner of the property, 1921 West Norris Street.
So we're here today for a resumptive hearing.
That's correct.
Yes. And understanding is there was some plans for trash that should be presented today.
And the understanding is there was some plans for trash.
So you want to just begin with your update.
So, yes, that's correct.
So at the prior hearing, a member of the community expressed concern over trash storage specifically for the second unit.
So just to back up a bit, the intention is my client applied for a use variance to use a property that's currently zoned as a single family home as two family.
As I mentioned in the prior hearing, this request for a use variance was previously approved in 2016.
However, my client wasn't able to did not complete the did not establish the use prior to the permits expiration.
So accordingly, we're coming back to the to the to the board asking for approval in regards to the trash storage.
So unit two provides, I'm sorry, unit one is a ground floor unit and there is trash storage for the first floor unit directly in the backyard of the property.
And let me just.
Yeah, you can pull up your updated floor plan with the trash, showing the trash storage.
Correct.
So the pardon me, so what my client has intended to do to rectify the concerns regarding the trash storage for the second unit, which we can't we don't see any plans.
Oh, I'm sorry. My apologies. I'm going to share my screen.
Are you able to? Is everyone able to see them now?
If you can enlarge them, that would be great.
So what my client has elected to do is to repurpose what was previously identified as a pantry in the kitchen.
To a trash closet with a trash storage bin that can be used to store.
Trash until the until the designated trash day on Wednesday.
My client has also directed, enacted prospective procedures to deal with ensuring that trash is disposed of properly by his future tenants if the board is to approve this project.
Namely, what he would do is have his property manager go by on Wednesdays to make sure that the trash is disposed of properly.
And since the prior hearing, I can relate to the board and my client can confirm that he has been in communication specifically with the individual who appeared at the prior hearing, sought them out, and tried to get a sense of what their concerns were.
And he's also become more engaged with the RCO and has been involved with trash pickups in the community.
So my client is looking to forge a long-term relationship with the community and the RCO, and so he wants to be a good neighbor and a good partner within the community.
I will note, which I previously relayed at the initial hearing, is that we did get support from the community, and I do have a letter to that effect.
So, we held an RCO meeting on January 8th, 2025, and they issued a letter of support for our use variance.
Yes, and it was also a letter not opposition from Council Member Young.
Could you bring your client on and from the DAP, your new testimony about the trash plan?
Mr. Payne, if you could raise your hand so you could be admitted as a panelist.
i i see that he was just a racist okay can you hear me yes yes um mr sorry could you spell your
name for the record um celine s-a-l-e-e-m pain p-a-y-n-a and do you swear to tell the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes okay we can proceed um yes um excuse me
And Mr. Payne, did you hear my testimony to the board earlier in regards to crash storage and specifically for unit two?
And do you adopt my testimony as your own?
Yes. Is there anything else you would wish to relate to the board in regards to the trash storage?
Is there anything else you would wish to relate to the board in regards to?
Yes. I personally met up with Ms. Judith Robertson of the Susquehanna cleanup pickup.
I also attended a couple of her pickup cleanups in the neighborhood, and she stressed to me the concerns of the trash in the area.
Thank you. Me, Ms. Robinson, she came up with a plan for me as far as the second floor unit, a 65-gallon trash can with a lock on it.
I seen it in the area. I mean, a couple residents or maybe, I'm not sure if there was multi-units, but I seen a couple of the trash canes in the area.
she identified it to me uh i looked it up on uline and um me and miss robertson uh
we've been communicating throughout the months since the last hearing
okay okay so i i'm sorry i'm sorry go ahead no i just had a question you said that um so you have
trash closet on the second floor but you will also have a another trash can for them on the outside
He recommended I get this trash can.
It has a lock on it.
I seen it on Uline just to secure the trash, you know, like lock it up.
And trash day is on Wednesday, which I have the real estate management company come through and make sure that there's no trash outside of the trash can, that the trash can is locked.
And would that trash can be used for the first floor as well, or they will have another trash can or their own?
I use it for the second trash can for the first floor has, I can get two trash cans, but the first floor has a yard space.
Questions from the board?
Where does the addition start?
I'm trying, like looking at this plan, where's the existing structure and what denotes the new construction?
So, the addition is on the third floor, so it would extend the third floor portion out to essentially meet the dimensions of the second floor.
Understood. Okay. So, you'd be using existing stairwells to just extend them up to the third floor?
Correct.
It didn't look like in your plan, so both the stairwells that were shown in the plan that you had on the screen are existing?
That's correct.
Any other questions from the board?
Questions from the council?
Sorry, no.
Okay. Do you have anyone in the virtual audience to put testimony, public testimony on the trash
plant only? I see no hands at this time. Okay. Planning Commission, do you have any different
recommendations? No, no. The same recommendation as last time. Thank you.
all right mi2024006066 1921 west north street um i vote yes michael johns my vote is yes
cheryl gaston my vote is yes
i win my vote is yes thank you council
thank you number 11 mi thank you board zero zero one zero seven nine seventeen oh four north
bodine street henry clinton is the attorney there's a letter of unanimous support from the
old Kensington neighborhood association and also a letter of non-opposition from council member
henry clinton will be rejoining us as a panelist thank you
Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
Good morning, counsel.
Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
My name is Henry Clinton, H-E-N-R-Y, Clinton, C-L-I-N-T-O-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Mr. Clinton, can you identify your client and relationship to the property?
Mr. Clinton, can you identify your client, a relationship to the property?
Sure. My client's name is Shaq, S-H-A-Q, Imadi, E-H-M-E-D-I.
My client.
Right. Do you waive the reading of the refusals and do you agree with their accuracies?
Yes, I do.
Please start your presentation.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was just texting my client to get on the call, so I didn't mean to ignore you.
Is that visible, Mr. Chairman?
Yeah, it is now. We're good now.
Thank you. Again, good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
I'm here on behalf of Cousins Susquehanna LLC, the principal of which is Shaq and Monty, E-H-M-E-D-I.
This is my table of contents.
This is a request for a variance for a two-family dwelling in an RSA-5 zone.
We previously had approval for this exact project.
Several years ago, the zoning permit ran out.
That client sold it to the new client, and this new client is basically asking for a reinstitution of the permit that was previously granted for two families.
The only difference is we have eliminated the front-loaded garage.
So it's a pretty straightforward presentation, but I'll go through my exhibits.
I have A1 through A10.
In addition, I have zoning records.
The background on this is there was a subdivision plan file.
There were three 12-foot wide parcels that were subdivided into two 18-foot parcels known as 1706 and 1708.
I'm here for 1706.
1708 already has a permit, which was issued in 2022
for a two-family dwelling, but with a garage.
We have the same situation, but we do not have a garage.
Here's a refusal.
Henry, just for a point, I understand the city records have not caught up with this
and they're referring to it as 1704. Am I correct? Correct.
All right. Thank you. Yep. So this is a zoning district, RSA 5,
as i said two refusals one is two family dwelling not permitted and we have a de minimis variation
from the maximum occupied allowance of about four percent and you can see down here the prior
calendar number for relocation of a lot lines to create two lots from three
for a two-family dwelling that was issued in july of 2017.
There is an RCO letter of support, which I have.
I can show you that at the very end.
I think, Mr. Chairman, you mentioned that at the outset.
And that is from.
So that's, Henry, we're looking at a blank sheet.
Right.
I didn't have the RCO letter when I sent in the package.
All right.
All right.
I got it.
I understand it was sent to you, but I also can bring it up at the end of my presentation.
All right.
Thank you.
That's fine.
I do have unanimous support from the RCO.
as we did back in 2017.
The photographs of the block,
it's currently a vacant lot right here across the street.
This is American Street Corridor right here.
And this is an aerial photograph,
so it's a little bit dated.
Recently, there's a new shell warehouse
that has been constructed here
with 25 off-street parking spaces.
And I went up and took a few photographs
and I have them just to show the board
what's across the street.
again this is an older photograph but this is the vacant lot right now this is current as of
about 20 days ago this is the new commercial shell building on american street this is bodine
this is an existing single family home but it's only 12 foot wide and that's why there was a lot
consolidation of three 12 foot lots which were to the north of this building and then converted those
There's three 12s into two 18-foot lots, one of which is the subject property.
More photographs of what is directly across the street from the vacant parcel.
This is looking north on Bodine Street.
This is the commercial building permit.
I took a photograph of it on the cyclone fence, but then I went to the records,
And this is a clear reading of that zoning permit for that shell warehouse directly across the street from the subject property.
Photographs of the posting.
And here are the plans.
This building, as I mentioned, is already constructed, and I showed you a photograph of it.
It's only 12 feet wide, single family.
This is our proposed project here, and this is the permit that I mentioned at 1708, which is approved.
This is our proposed project here.
and this is the permit that I have.
So the architect went on public records and basically took the plans for this project and put it adjacent to our project.
You can see it's approved for a garage, but again, we're just going to go with a straight two-family dwelling.
Another view showing rooftop deck.
This is the floor plan.
Then, blow it up a little bit, go floor by floor.
So in the basement, there's an office, a half bath, laundry, and mechanicals on the first floor, living, kitchen, one bedroom.
So it's a one-bedroom apartment.
Then you would go up the steps from that one entrance door to the second floor.
We have a living room, dining room, kitchen area on one floor, and then two bedrooms above.
We do have a trash area for the second floor apartment.
The first floor apartment has access to the rear yard for trash.
There's also access to a rooftop deck.
This is the front elevation, all brick.
the RCO has called for one-third brick on the rear this is a cutaway of the
building again basement first one apartment second and third second
apartment pilot house on the very top the remaining documents are what you
would typically see in a package like this application or project information
form. We do have an indication from the Philadelphia Tax Center that there are no
real estate taxes are due. Zoning map, it is, as I said, RSA 5 across the street from ICMX.
Deed indicating ownership that my client purchased it from Mr. Falco, who had the subdivision
approved a while back
as well as the other zoning permit.
He then sold it to my client
and that's why we're here today.
These are the initial deeds
indicating the lot consolidation
to give you historical background.
This is our notice letter
that we sent out to every property
within 250 feet of the subject property
and our certification of mailing
mailed out 103 pieces. And these are all the addresses of the properties. Here's the zoning
records. This is the original subdivision plan. On the left is the three 12-foot-wide properties.
And then on the right, you can see the subdivision between 1706, 8 feet wide, and 1708, also 8 feet
wide. This is the back-proof documentation that in 2017, the relocation of lot lines was granted.
And then also a permit in November of 2017 for this parcel, a two-family dwelling.
And this is 1708, the property that I told you that the architect pulled from public records
to show you what the plans that were submitted look like this permit for two family dwelling
was issued in march of 2022 two family dwelling
that's it for the presentation i can also bring up the uh
the the letter mr chairman if you don't have it in the file
you have a letter we have a letter from kensigan neighbors and also a letter not a business from
from Council Member Lizard.
Okay, yep, and that letter from all Kensington neighbors
is unanimous, and I believe it was unanimous
back in 2017.
So with that, I'm going to ask my client,
Mr. Emetti, to unmute yourself,
adopt my testimony.
It will entertain, obviously, any questions
that anyone may have.
Mr. Emetti?
Shakir Emetti has been promoted to penalist.
Good morning, sir.
Shaq, are you on the call?
You have to unmute yourself.
Mr. Amati?
Hello?
Hi, Mr. Amati.
Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
State your name and spell for the stenographer.
Good morning, Your Honor.
Good morning, Your Honor.
My name is Shakir Hamedi, S-H-A-K-E-R.
My name is Shaq Rahmadi.
Last name Hamedi, E-H-M-E-D-I.
Right.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Please proceed, counsel.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Hamedi, were you on the call when I presented your project?
Yes, I was.
And if you had the opportunity to testify, would you adopt my testimony as your own and as true and correct?
Thank you very much, Mr. Manning.
Questions from the board.
Where is the trash stored for the first floor unit?
In the yard.
Let me go to that.
So you'll have to go through your rear yard to bring your trash through.
You have to go through your bedroom to bring the trash in from the backyard.
Correct.
That's the way it's laid out.
Yes, Mr. Johns.
horrible horrible situation this is this is one one situation where i would argue that if you're
going to have a bedroom the bedroom could be in the basement and at least the office space
you're going through at least an office space and i thought more common area as opposed to
somebody's bedroom bringing in trash and pets and everything else well the other the other thing is
It looks like there is room in the mechanical area where you could store the trash.
It could be brought down there and then brought out through the front because I think you do have a good point so you're not going through your bedroom.
Yeah, still even if you're having something and you're having friends and family over and you want to utilize the yard, they have to go through your private space.
So I think anytime you have to go through a bedroom to access a backyard is just a bad planning for a unit.
Understood.
Other than that, I don't technically have a problem with the unit.
Other questions from the board?
Thank you, Michael.
Questions from our attorney?
No, Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
I see no hands at this time, Chair.
Henry, before I go to the planning, what's your solution relative to the trash?
I think Mr. Johns raises a good point.
I'm going to have to talk to the architect to see if there's enough room to put a hallway to the rear.
I mean, I certainly, I don't know that we want to be in a position to put the bedroom in the basement
because I know how the board feels about that.
But I think my alternative would be to have in the mechanical room, which is a large room, to have a sealed trash container there so trash can be brought downstairs.
And then at the time of trash day, it can be brought up the stairs and out the front door.
I think that would be a better solution.
And then get rid of the trash storage that's in the yard so there's no, you know.
I mean, don't forget, there's also a real alley that, you know, if you put the trash there, you can go out and put the trash at the end of the block.
That's another alternative.
So, all right.
Planning Commission.
Thank you, Chair.
I don't know that the board necessarily is 100% opposed to bedrooms in the basement.
Right.
I just said that in this situation, it's a little different because it's a one-bedroom unit, and you are offering an office in the basement.
If that was flipped, then at least it's an office and not somebody's bedroom that you're going through.
That's my only point.
Understood.
But I defer to, you know, however you want to handle it.
I'm completely opposed to having to go through somebody's bedroom.
to to okay thanks michael planning commission
thank you chair bergman sarah bond with the philadelphia city planning commission
in 2016 the zoning map was amended from cmx 2 commercial mixed use to rsa 5 residential
single family at this location in accord with recommendations from the comprehensive plan
in accord with previously granted permits and or variances for this property the city planning
commission recommends that the zoning board grant the variance thank you mi-2025-001-079-1704
north bodine street i vote yes my vote is no sarah gaston my vote is yes
tenetogram my vote is yes i own my vote is yes um thank you council
counsel he disappeared okay
he disappeared okay um is there anyone in the audience whose case has not been called
i see no hands at this time see everyone at 2 p.m
Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Bill Bergman, and I will be chairing this meeting
of the Zoning Board of Adjustments. With me is our board member Sheryl L. Gaston.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Board member Tanetta Graham.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Board member Michael Johns.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Board member Ty Wynn.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Also, here is our attorney, Ryan McSherry, our zoning board director, Ian Haggerty, and our board administrator, Lakeisha Daniels.
Recording of this hearing will be posted on the ZBA website.
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for you let's look at our schedule for this afternoon
number five
MI 2025
001573
2505 East Vanango
Street
that case
hold on a minute
that case is being continued
is James Maryberry in the audience
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. This is Jason. And I will be your calls for the session.
I do not see that individual in the audience.
Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt.
Yeah, I don't see that individual in the audience, but I do have a hand up from a Eric Carroll.
I will allow him to speak.
good afternoon mr bergman can you hear me i can't sir
please state your name it's bell for the stenographer eric eric carol c-a-r-r-o-l-l
i am the attorney for the applicant on this project money hold on one minute do you swear
or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do um counsel we um
Are you going to represent him today?
I am. Yes. I'm representing the actual applicant is the contractor, Monique Hedda Coates.
Well, there's been no RCO meeting. Correct. We're going to have to continue this case.
Yeah, I we agree with that. The lack of an RCO meeting was not due to my client's fault.
I understand. Is there any way we can reschedule it to closer to October?
We're going to reschedule it, and you'll call the office and try to figure out what we can do about moving the date.
But at this point, MI 2025-001-573-2505 East Van Angle Street, cases continued, and the date that we have is 1-07-26.
Case is continued, and the date that we have is 1-07-26.
Now, if you contact the office, they're going to try to see where they can work you in, okay?
Thank you, sir.
All right.
Number six, MI-2025-001-574, 1101-211 West Allegheny Avenue.
That case is continued to 1-7-26 at 2 p.m.
Number 7, MI-2025-001-575-4026 Palmetto Street.
That case has been continued to 1726.
Number 9, MI-2025-001-580-1835 Diamond Street.
This case has been continued to Wednesday, September 7th at 2 p.m.
And number 12, MI 2025, 002-399-1835 Diamond Street.
This case has been continued to Wednesday, September 7th, 17th at 2 p.m.
Are there any other requests for continuances?
I do not see any hands, Mr. Chair.
Okay, we're going to go to our first add-on, MI 2024-001-512-1433 Diamond Street.
I vote yes with proviso. No household living in basement, maximum six units.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes with provisos.
Cheryl Gaston, I certify that I viewed the record, the recording of the June 12,
2024 hearing in this matter, and my vote is yes with proviso.
I, Tynetta Graham, certify that I view the recording of the June 12, 2024 hearing in this matter, and my vote is yes with provisos.
Taya Nguyen, my vote is yes with provisos.
Michael, could you mention that?
I confirmed that I reviewed the hearing for that date also.
I, Taya Nguyen, certify that I viewed the recording of the June 12, 2024 hearing in this matter.
Thank you, everybody.
So number one, MI 2025, 001-045, 3712 Midvale Avenue.
Alan Nockmson is the attorney.
all right mr knockamson you've already been sworn just for the record could you please state your
name alan knockamson mr knockamson could you identify your client a relationship to the
property yes my client is rk real estate services llc the owner of the property and in the virtual
audience should be its member Arun Srin Srin E. Bassan you waive the reading on the refusal
to agree with his accuracy. I do. Could you please start your presentation?
Oh, yes. Can I just be promoted to a panelist? Sure.
Sorry, panelists. Oh, okay, great.
All right. I'm here to present 3712 Midvale Avenue. There are 11 exhibits in my packet of materials. Again, at the conclusion of the presentation, I would ask that Arun virtually raise his hand and be sworn in.
This is a CMX 2.5 property, as you can see from the refusal.
Currently, there's a permit of record of three residential units and one commercial unit.
We're merely looking to swap out the commercial unit for the residential unit.
Given its CMX 2.5 zoning classification and its lot size, it actually could be seven residential units.
We believe that the circumstances permit that the swapping out is appropriate under the circumstances in that we have a realtor here that will testify.
in that we have a realtor here that will testify that they've been trying to market this commercial unit for a few years
and have had no interest from any commercial tenants.
We have a letter of support from the East Falls Community Council.
It kind of describes what I'm stating, that this is on a commercial corridor,
although there's not a lot of commercial units on the ground floor from any of the properties here,
even though it's CMX 2.5,
and that there have been challenges on this commercial corridor to rent commercial units.
And given that we're agreeing to change the facade of the commercial component to make it more pleasing to the eye,
they have no opposition to the proposed variance request.
Again, here's just a zoning permit showing that we're allowed to have three residential units and one commercial.
Again, based on the code, the CMX 2.5, and given the lot size, we're allowed seven units.
We're just asking to remove that commercial component on the ground floor, and that's our refusal.
Again, even though we're on this sliver of a commercial corridor, it's really off the B-in path, and you'll see from the photographs.
This is a Google Maps perspective.
So this is the property right now.
as you can see like it definitely needs some tlc in terms of that first floor so as part of the
deal we're making with the community we're going to remove the the utility meters in the front
we're going to replace put them in the basement and then we're going to make some other modifications
to the front of the building on the first floor to make it more pleasing to the eye here's our
zoning hearing notice poster showing that we posted uh three weeks before today's hearing
uh this is midvale avenue to the right of the property as you can see there is not as much of
a commercial corridor here um as further along uh midvale avenue on subsequent blocks so that's
midvale avenue to the left of the property and then interior photos so these are the residential
units we just wanted to show you like you know these are actual photos that tenants would see
and you know the conditions they would you know uh live in um but you can see it's really nice in
there and then we're hoping to convert the first floor unit the same um we would also agree to
provide so no uh living in the basement so the board knows and then this is the commercial
component so it's just raw space right now and that's the roof deck just for the upper unit
So, again, as you can see from the renderings, you can see it's a lot different, that first floor of the current commercial space in the building as a whole.
I have Mark Wallace from Core Architects who can kind of explain the materials that are being used.
I also have, if he's not available, I do have some information about that as well.
But that was really important to the community to make it look a lot nicer than it currently is.
Uh, and then this is, you know, the floor plans. Uh, so here is, you know, going up to the upper floors. Uh, but you can see this is where we would make the modification. This is the commercial unit right now. Uh, so you walk in, you have the kitchenette area, you have a livery room, you have a bathroom, you have a laundry facility, and you have two bedrooms in the back.
again um no one i think it's i think it's common this space there there's no internal staircases
for this fourth floor unit i think it's just going to be tenant storage down there uh and
maybe even garbage stored down there but we have no objection to any proviso no living in the
basement and then these are just the upper floors which are in existing condition and so every
unit will be on its own it would be on its own floor and then we met with the
community a second time on May 21st at 7 p.m. again we had a second meeting
because it was asked of us to make modifications after hopefully we get
zoning approval to the exterior of the first floor so they wanted to see some
renderings and we mailed this notice not many not much density around there to
23 addresses nearby actually more than 23 sorry and then this is proof of
mailing that notice or application for appeal that we filed on behalf of our
K real estate services LLC along with the notice of refusal the project
information form the deed to the property showing that RK real estate
service LLC is the owner of the property and then filing the certificate of tax
clearance showing no balance due with that being said i would ask that everyone
showing no balance due.
With that being said, I would ask that Arun virtually raise his hand
and be sworn in.
This is your client?
Is he going to testify to trying to rent it?
Yeah, I also have the realtor.
I just wanted him to testify some of the matters that I stated.
I'm back in as a panelist now.
Thank you.
Hello.
Hi, could you please state your name as spelled for the stenographer?
Arun Srinivasan.
My company is RK Real Estate LLC.
Name is spelled A-R-U-N.
First name.
Last name is S-R-I-N-I-V-A-S-A-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Arun, you heard everything I had to state today about your zoning matter.
Yes, I did.
And is it true and correct?
And do you adopt this as your own testimony?
Yes, I do.
Thank you.
Before I ask Mr. David Locker to virtually raise his hand, I also want to make note that there are five other units or properties on that block, which are also CMX 2.5, which have no commercial component on the ground floor.
3710 mid-vale, 3706 mid-vale, 3704 mid-vale, 3702 mid-vale, and 3700 mid-vale.
There are no commercial uses on the ground floor.
Can I have Mr. Locker raise his hand?
They should be coming back in as a panel shortly as well.
Thank you.
hello hi could you please state your name as bell for the stenographer
sure david locker d-a-v-i-d l-o-c-h-e-r you swear or affirm to tell the truth
told truth nothing but the truth i do mr knockamson yes uh mr locker are you a licensed
realtor in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania? I am. And who's your real estate broker?
Berkshire Hathaway, Fox and Roach Realtors. Okay. And was your real estate broker engaged
to attempt to lease the commercial space for the Midvale Avenue property?
Yes, I was. Or yes, we were, I should say. All right. And how long have you been attempting to
do uh to rent out this commercial space i believe it's been about three and a half years okay and
can you just tell the board uh how those efforts have come about or what the results of those
efforts have been yeah unfortunately it's been a pretty frustrating uh three and a half years
the residential units rented almost immediately after them being put on the market but the
commercial space i may have had three maybe four initially interested parties but at every one of
those parties as we proceeded further along found there to be problems with the building where it
just wouldn't work for them and unfortunately we never actually received a a formal application
from any of those potential tenants in your professional opinion would a residential unit
be viable for this property absolutely I have no further questions questions from the board
yes question where are the mechanicals going to be for this property or where are they now and
How are you rearranging the meters and what have you to accommodate the aesthetics, shall
we say, of this project?
So my understanding, and Arun, correct me if I'm wrong, all the meters are going to
be placed in the basement.
So it's a common basement that is only accessible if the landlord wants only to the landlord,
but they will all be pushed down into the basement area.
Okay. And then in terms of this space, what kind of water service, electrical service, and that kind of thing?
Water service, electrical service, and that kind of thing is already there that can be converted into this residential space.
So, I mean, it's an existing building already with current electrical service and water service.
Was it ever, I mean, but it was never really configured for residential use before, correct?
That is correct. It's a wide open space. I can go back to the picture, but it's just a wide open space right now. It's raw space, but there's electrical service and water service into the building as a whole and into that unit itself.
Was there a bathroom there for potential commercial tenants?
Yeah, and everyone corrected me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there's any bathroom currently on the first floor unit.
It's just raw space.
Yeah, I agree.
So there is water connection and there is an electrical connection that can be broadened out to fit out whoever the renter would have been for the commercial space.
And the same connections could be used for residential places as well.
While the commercial unit's empty or vacant, there are three active residential units in the building structure.
Okay. Yes, but they were fit out or they were originally constructed for residential use as opposed to this space, which was going to be a commercial or office use, I guess, once it was fit out for whoever might lease it. And you're saying nobody heased it. Is that correct?
Yeah. Again, Mr. Locker stated that he's been trying to lease the property for almost three and a half years and has no has had no viable interest in the commercial space.
Are there any commercial or office uses on this on this block?
there there are and i and actually when i looked at re-looked at my notes i just wanted to make
sure i was being accurate um there is for and i said some of these spaces are you know single
family or non-resident there's you know 3706 is a single family home 3710 is a playground
3704 looks like it's one residential space above um but again maybe if mr locker can
correct me if i'm wrong it looks like it's a baking commercial space 3702 midvale is a single
family um home and 3700 midvale which is on the corner is a barber shop but more appropriate it's
a corner property um but it's it's like on an island if you looked at the zoning map there's
a like maybe six or seven properties in the middle of the block there are cmx two and a half
It looks like there's some residential, and I can kind of share my screen again to kind of show you that.
And then they go CMX 2.5 again, and even the community group acknowledge it's been very challenging for this commercial corridor.
Even with the increased density, I believe there was reference to an apartment building, but it's been very challenging for this commercial corridor.
They had no objection to adding this as a residential unit.
given the amount of time we've been trying to list and market this property in good faith
but you can see here there's like a little bit of a gap like we're this like cmx two and a half
on the island but there's a lot of non-commercial use and then it looks like it gets really heavy
down here i can't tell you what's down here i'll have to take a look at it um but not every one of
these properties even though our cmx two and a half um have a commercial component on the ground
floor so we're asking what's similar to what they have there okay and then trash storage uh
everyone correct me if i'm wrong is there ability to store the trash in in well the units store the
trash inside but is there an ability to to create a trash room down in the basement yes um it's a
It's a common area.
My hope is to use it as a part storage for the residents about and offer that as a storage space for them.
But, yes, that is pretty much the whole basement, again, is wide open with separate access from behind the first floor unit.
And you would have no objection to a proviso trash stored inside?
And we have a commercial trash contract with a commercial trash picker.
And how many times a week for that?
uh i i have to check i have a property manager who runs the place so
i know um i signed one for that but i don't know how often do they do it
I know I signed one for that, but I don't know how often they do it.
I can find out, though.
All right. Thank you.
I have two questions.
One, the space at the rear that gives you access to the basement,
is there a public street on the back or is it accessed by a side yard or an alley?
I didn't see one on the plan.
Let me see.
So, there is a back door that gives access to a rear staircase and the staircase going down to the basement.
Let's just see.
Yeah, but how would you get to that back door?
Oh, I see.
Straight through.
Yeah, cut straight through.
And then my second question is, it says in our notes that there were some aesthetic requests from the East Falls RCO.
what were those like what were their comments yeah so um this right here you can see well
here's it even highlighted better um we're changing the facade first we're getting moving
the electrical meters that are out the front we're going to put them in the basement and then we're
changing the aesthetics where i guess let me just see what the architect has so this isn't was
currently no there yeah let me show you this so that's that that much nicer show the first yeah
sure i'll show you the front page the pit like did i miss that yeah right oh okay and yeah so
it's night and day like what it would look like and then did pico already approve the
relocation of these meters to the basement i that i don't know i would ask the architect who would
that doesn't sound like pico we are going like it's our goal to move them down there i know i
just wonder because it says that that's their conditional support is based on something that
i don't know is possible if i if i may interrupt it's it's my understanding uh this is board
counsel ryan musherry it's my understanding that moving the utility mirrors to the basement is not
permitted under the code it is not that's why i was wondering because it said that that's what
what's going to happen we have it's also not shown on the rendering so that yeah so if we're
not allowed and i'm relying on the architect we're you know we would probably move them to the back
or we would have some type of covering i mean we're trying to act in good faith here that was
our intention we you know collaborated with the architect in that respect so if that's not allowed
we there's opportunities to move him in the back we can also do some type of coverings that you
know, we would work with PICO in that respect as well.
And then have the current tenants already been notified that should this be approved
that there'll be major construction happening at the entrance?
I'm going to leave that to Arun.
I would think the answer is probably not because you don't tell tenants something that may
happen, but I would defer to Arun on that.
No, I have not, but obviously I'm waiting for the permission to do so.
And obviously, that would be the right thing to do, to inform them and make sure they are comfortable with the plan.
And then my last question is about mail.
So, like, right now, you've got three tenants that are entering through mostly residential, entrance, and lobby.
Where is going to be the mail drop-off for all four units now, including larger packages?
Like the. I mean, I can't remember exactly where it is right now, but it's just inside that outside wall that the doors for the ring for the residential units are set back a little bit.
And in that area is where the mailbox is. And we should be able to add the same mailbox.
If you see the new rendering, the door opens into that area, the common area.
So that makes it a common entrance for all of them.
So, yeah.
But it's more open.
So, like, right now you've got it partially covered, and it's going to now be more exposed to the street.
And with the entrance there, I just wasn't sure you could fit all five mailboxes.
But it sounds like you've thought about it.
Yeah, four.
But, yeah, we are hoping that we can.
And if not, we have to make it as secure as possible for the tenants for the packages to be delivered safely.
So as Alan said, yes, we're going to do it as best as possible for it to be an attractive property for the town for East Falls and for the people who are living in the building.
I was less worried about attractiveness and more about egress because you've got a very tight walkway to get to that back door and then you've got a stairwell on the right.
that's pretty much all you can legally use to get in and out of the space safely and then i would
just suggest that you make sure that you look at drainage right now you have a lot of pieces on the
facade that are being added that are even already there that are kind of overhanging the sidewalk
that are being added, that are even already there, that are kind of overhanging the sidewalk,
that don't look like
that don't look like they have accommodations for water, like how water would travel.
And I would just make sure you address that in the future.
Absolutely, ma'am.
Other questions?
No, Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Yes, Chair. I have a handout from Hillary Langer. I will promote them,
and they shall be back in shortly
this is hillary langer i'm mr langer could you please state your name and spell for the course
stenographer. Hilary Langer, H-I-L-A-R-Y-L-A-N-G-E-R. You swear or affirm to tell the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Please proceed, Mr. Langer.
Our position on this project is support. The current street level of the property is
substandard with an array of electrical meters. It has been unleashed since completion.
Our concern is the lack of enlivenment at street level.
Therefore, we support the proposed improvements with the residential use, which we feel will address the lack of enlivenment and improve walkability in an area with several vacant business storefronts, but many occupied adjacent single homes.
Our support is conditional that this work can be accomplished.
I have a hunch in my experience that it can be.
Electrical meters are remotely read, and I have seen them relocated to basements.
So, again, we support and on the condition that this work is accomplished.
Thank you, Mr. Langer, for taking the time.
Do you have any questions?
No, but I did have something pass across my screen.
I don't know if the architect is available to appear and testify, but I did get a note that he has worked on other projects similarly where they have moved the meters into the basement.
I'm no expert about the building code and how PICO handles these matters, but it sounds like it has been done before, at least for this architect.
So, again, we'll do our best to comply with the code.
Thank you.
Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?
planning commission
good afternoon chair members of the board michael gall with the philadelphia city planning
commission m-i-c-h-a-e-l-g-a-l-l do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing
but the truth i do your own please proceed the comprehensive plan recommends no change
to the commercial mixed use zoning at this location there is no unique condition or
circumstance of this property which would prevent it from being used in conformance with the zoning
code in 2023 the east falls community worked with the planning commission staff to revise
its neighborhood commercial area overlay sub-area provisions and chose to retain the explicit
requirement of 100 non-residential use in the first 30 feet of cmx 2.5 properties fronting
along midvale avenue in order to avoid future residential conversions such as the project
proposed the city planning commission therefore recommends the board deny the proposed variance
for a lack of ground for non-residential use.
Thank you.
MI 2025 001 045 3712 Midvale.
I vote yes.
Proviso.
Trash stored inside.
Michael Johns.
My vote is yes with Proviso.
Cheryl Gaston.
My vote is yes with Proviso.
Tanetta Graham.
My vote is yes with Proviso.
Iowyn.
My vote is yes with Proviso.
Thank you, counsel.
Thank you.
Number two.
MI 2025 001 567.
1888 East Shortnut Street. Rachel Pritzker is the attorney.
We're coming back in as a panel, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
Good afternoon.
Hi, counsel. Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yes. Rachel R-A-C-H-A-E-L Pritzker P-R-I-T-Z-K-E-R.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client in a relationship to the property?
Yes. For this matter, my client is Ken Mosley and he is the owner of the property.
You waive the reading of the refusal and you agree with its accuracy?
and there is a letter of non-opposition from east mount airy neighbors
the vote was two in opposition one opposed
the vote was two in opposition one opposed um please proceed yeah it was i think two
and non-opposition one opposed yep yeah can we also promote carl emberger our architect
sure thank you we'll have him ready to go when you're doing your presentation
or do you want him to testify now um whatever is easier for the board why don't you start
your presentation then we'll bring him on okay can you see my screen we can okay so this is 188e
sharp neck here is the refusal you can see the property zoned rsa 5 however this board granted
a variance back in 1984 for auto repair shop no body or fender work although when we went back
through there was no record of continuous use there was no record of a co and so we're back in
front of the zoning board for a new zoning permit for the proposed use of personal vehicle repair
and maintenance and warehouse storage within this existing property
as mentioned we're proposing personal vehicle repair maintenance and warehouse the board
granted a variance back in 1984. We did not have, were able to find a CO, so we're back
here. A zoning permit issued on January 9th, 1980 indicates the property has been used for
light auto repair since it was erected. Aerial views support this, and no residential structure
has existed on the property going back to at least 1996. Therefore, again, this is in character
what's been used for the property it's been certainly used for these same purposes other
than residential making an outlier in the context of the zoning district although it's zoned rsa5
so in order to comply with the code we have to demolish this existing structure this existing
business and create ground up new construction single family homes which would not be in
character with what the long-standing use on this property so asking for a variance for the same
existing use that's been here since the 1980s is the least modification of the code possible
for relief we're not proposing any dimensional variances no height or side yard rear yard
and so it's just for the use of the property here's the aerial view of the site it's also
worth noting that it's sort of a flag-shaped lot in a sense just a bit larger with this l shape in
the back. Again aerial photos that show the existing structure on the rear of the
lot. Again just some aerial photos as well. So the board can see the zoning
posters, some interior photos as well with the existing warehouse, so just the zoning
records that I had mentioned that date back to 1984 with the variants approved.
This is just where in the code it's a little bit blurry but where
this doesn't comply with RSA 5. As mentioned we did have a community meeting on July 17th
with the East Mount Airy neighbors and as mentioned and we sent the proper mailing
and notice requirements. And then as mentioned in their letter, they did receive the certificate
of mailing and there was one near neighbor and Charles Richardson from Councilman Bass's office
was there. We presented the project and there was a discussion between one of the neighbors and the
owner. It was an issue with the car on the street. The owner said that he would remove the car that
he owned, but he couldn't control the rest of the cars. And then a vote was taken, one in opposition,
but and two in non-opposition for this matter um here are just some of the architecture plans if
carl could go through them um and then i have my client on mr ken mosley um who can adopt my
testimony bring the architect on please yes they'll be rejoining as a panel shortly thank you
it's also worth noting that the owner of 188 also owns 184 so as far as disrupting
near neighbors he owns the directly adjacent property which i forgot to mention
good afternoon i'm carl enberger
i'm carl emberger carl could you please spell your name for the courts yes it is uh carl c-a-r-l
carl could you please spell your name for the courts
emberger e m as in mary b-e-r-g-e-r you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and
nothing but the truth i do please proceed counsel carl can do you see the um floor plans on my screen
i do and just go through them briefly for the board yes all right so to the left of the plan
is East Sharpnack Street.
There is an existing curb cut there
and a paved driveway that goes from the left of the plan
to the garage that's located towards the back
of the flag-shaped lot.
The garage fills the full back of the lot.
It's up against the property lines.
My understanding is that this building
has been there since 1932.
uh this back portion of the um lot the whole building is basically one big garage um rachel
showed some photos earlier there's an office in the far um upper left corner of the garage
and then there's some storage spaces um on that side of the garage as well and then there's open
rack storage that occurs along the perimeter um and you know there's cars that fill the uh
you know temporarily fill the center of the garage when they're working on them
there is some parking located towards the front of the lot towards the street and then there's
just open space with a couple of air conditioning units to the northeast side of the lot near the
office if you want to go to the next slide we did include a roof plan just to point out that there
There's garage exhaust fans for the space, and they go up through the roof, not out to the adjacent lots.
There's also some skylights for natural light down into the space.
And that's all I have to share with the plans.
Yeah, the rest is the zoning archives, as I already mentioned.
Rachel, are you going to bring your client on?
Yeah, please. Is there a Kenneth Mosley available?
Mr. Mosley?
You should be coming back in as a panel shortly. Thank you.
yes this is kenneth mosley hi mr mosley could
you please state your name as bill for the stenographer yes ken k-e-n mosley m-o-s-e-l-e-y
right you swear affirm to tell the truth told truth nothing but the truth i swear counsel
ken have you heard my testimony today do you believe it to be true and accurate and
do you adopt it as your own yes thank you mr council is mr mosley how long does he run the
location. Ken, how long have you run this location? I've had this location for 25 years.
Okay. Thank you. Questions from the board.
Yes. So you're doing auto repair only, right? No body, fender, spray painting. You're not doing
any of that right no ma'am okay and then um uh how many cars are you servicing at a time
in the space i can service two cars at a time okay and then um what are you doing with like
hazardous waste disposal i'm assuming you're doing like oil changes and things like that
would you how are you handling your hazardous waste disposal we have we have a 250 gallon
bin in the back that holds the waste oil and i have a waste oil company that picks up the
waste oil okay and how often are we doing once you get to the 25 gallons is that
25 gallons is it up or are you doing this on a weekly basis or 250 gallons ma'am yes but how
or are you doing this on a weekly basis
often are you having that hauled away and once a month once a month or uh every six weeks
okay and then um what about fire suppression systems in the building what do you have yes i
have six fire extinguishers all over the building okay you don't have a hardwired smoke
no ma'am okay um just fire extinguishers yes ma'am
okay all right thank you all the questions
questions or comments from our attorney uh no chair questions or comments from the virtual audience
hi mr chair i have a hand up from charles richardson i will promote them to
panelists and they should be back in shortly good afternoon mr chair which is in just for the record
please state your name charles richardson r-i-c-h-a-r-d-s-o-n office of councilwoman
in the bathroom 508 city hall you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but
the truth i do please proceed sir uh councilman has no opposition to granting the variance thank
you very much for taking the time to cause um anyone else in the virtual audience
do not see any further answer mr chair commission
good afternoon chair members of the board michael gall with the city planning commission
the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing zoning of rsa 5 residential single
family attached the proposed vehicle repair use would take place immediately behind several
residences while there is record of this activity as far back as the 1940s appeals for similar uses
were denied by this board in both 2010 and 2018 although there is no indication that the operations
ever stopped the planning commission recommends the board deny the requested variance for vehicle
repair. MI 2025-001-567-188 E. Sharpneck Street, I vote yes. Michael Johns, my vote is yes.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes. Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.
Taya Nguyen, my vote is yes. Thank you, counsel. Thank you.
All right, number three, MI 2025-001-570-1617 Walnut Street. Adam Laver is the attorney,
And once you get hooked up there, we'll swear you in.
I'm ready, Mr. Chairman.
Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Members of the board, Adam Laver, L.A., D as in Victor, E.R., of Blank Rome, 1 Logan Square, on behalf of Nike Retail Services, Inc.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, Mr. Chairman, I do.
Do you waive the reading of the refusal and do you agree with its accuracy?
yes mr chairman i do please start your presentation thank you
by the way there's a letter of non-opposition from the center city residents association
a letter of support from council president johnson previously approved by the art commission
as part of another submission and then removed from the package
correct as i mentioned mr chairman members of the board
I'm pleased to have the opportunity to represent Nike Retail Services, Inc., the lessee at 1617
Walnut Street, the future home of the first Nike World of Flight shop in the United States of
America. With me virtually is Jamie Sinclair, Associate General Counsel of Nike, Inc., as well
as Andra Wooten, Project Manager, Andre Kim, Director of Retail Design for the Jordan brand.
On the screen before you, we can see an aerial photograph of the subject property.
As this board is no doubt aware, the subject property fronts on Walnut Street and runs
through to Moravian Street, which is to the north.
the property is located within the cmx 5 center city core commercial mixed-use zoning district
the proposed retail sales of wearing apparel and accessories are permitted uses of record
which have been registered at zp 2024 012054 along with certain excess
012054, along with certain accessory signage that has already been approved, namely a non-illuminated
sign above the storefront entrance, which you will see in a moment if the computer cooperates.
there we go on the screen before you just to put this in context is a conceptual rendering
uh an enhanced uh rendering of what you would see if you walked by walnut street today but a little
bit beyond that in that it shows above the main entrance the approved uh logo for uh the retailer
right above the door and as i said the underlying use for the entire property has been approved
we're here today to ask for an additional accessory sign approval which i'll share with
you momentarily and here we see some streetscape photos on the right the proposed world of flight
is devoted exclusively to the air jordan nike brand the retail space encompasses the entire
subject property two stories as you can see towards the left of the photo right
by what had been New Balance is no longer it's about 7,000 square feet of
retail space all Jordan brand and here's another photograph of the property if
you were to walk by today work has been underway Nike is really excited to
introduce this to philadelphia in the region so we're looking from the inside out beautiful windows
but there are lots of layers of review here which is one of the issues quite frankly that that
speaks to the hardship being philadelphia historical commission review to do this in a way that's
sensitive to the historic resource as well as art commission review so you can see that we
have a construction site uh that's being completed the application before the board concerns nike's
request for placement of the air jordan jumpman logo uh less than two square feet in size which
would be centered on the walnut street elevation gable here it is uh all the gable is all the way
at the top the pediment of the property uh and the proposed signage the exclusive issue before the
board is for a 17 inch 17 and one eighth inch wide by 16 inches high logo yes it's true what i'm
saying it's the it's the one that is indicated with the letter a up at the top and i'll go over
the notice of refusal and the reason that we're here it's a shame that nike had to wait so long
but uh this is just a nuance of the zoning code uh here's the notice of refusal and um as as the uh
lni document says the application concerns the erection of one non-illuminated accessory wall
sign above the second floor uh windowsill of the subject property and pursuant to 14904
one h of the zoning code variance relief is required if a wall sign is situated above
the second floor windowsill a couple observations if i may regarding the appropriateness of
variance relief under the law the property is located on the philadelphia register of
historic places which in practice as the board knows restricts options for exterior alterations
so in this case the placement of the proposed jump man logo has been reviewed and approved
in concept by both the philadelphia historical commission and the art commission mr chairman
you mentioned that at the start due to the concerns of both commissions i would respectfully submit
that options for placement of signage are generally more restrictive here at this site
then would be the case for properties not subject to philadelphia historical commission and art
commission review particularly in such a generous zoning district as the cmx5 zoning district
here is the signage detail once again the proposed signage is a mere 1.90 square feet
the least minimum variance necessary to provide relief from the regulation at issue
Why is this important to Nike and to World of Flight?
There's nothing more important to the Jordan brand than the branding itself, and to let people know that here in Philadelphia, we're going to have a very special exclusive opportunity.
There's nothing more important to...
And when people look up at this beautiful building right over the door, they'll see it really restrained.
You could imagine a very different sort of approach, a Times Square sort of approach.
and but we believe that something more is needed and that this complements the design very nicely
there is full support the project has been reviewed by the coordinating rco center city
residents association which lends its non-opposition along with the support of council
president kenyatta johnson i hope that this brief presentation has demonstrated that the proposal
fits into the surrounding neighborhood, as evidenced by the support for the de minimis
relief at issue, the first world of flight in the United States will surely be of benefit to
our city, to the general public, and to the granting of variance relief requested within
the spirit of the zoning code. And Ms. Sinclair is available along with the others, should there
be any questions. Thank you. Do you want to have someone just adopt your testimony? Yes.
Jamie Sinclair, would you please raise your virtual hand to be recognized by Chairman Bergman?
She has.
Bill will be coming back in as a panelist.
Hello. Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Sure. Hello. My name is Jamie Sinclair, first name J-A-M-I-E.
last name Sinclair, S-I-N-E-L-A-I-R. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,
the whole truth, nothing but the truth? I do. Please proceed, counsel.
Thank you, Chairman Bergman. Good afternoon, Ms. Sinclair.
Hello. Good afternoon. How are you today? Very well. Thank you. Thank you for joining us.
Have you been present during the entirety of this hybrid presentation before the Zoning Board
adjustment? Yes, I have. And would you adopt and affirm the testimony that I've offered as your
own? Yes, I do. Thank you, Ms. Sinclair. Thank you. Question from the board. Yeah, I do have a
question. So the logo itself won't be lit, but will there be any lighting that will shine on the logo?
Mr. Johns, there's no light lighting that is proposed. Gotcha. Thank you. Certainly. Okay.
I don't have a question. I guess I have a, well, it's sort of a query. This is awfully small. So if you're standing on Walnut Street and you're looking up, you're, how, and it's not lit.
I can't hear you
I said I guess
I'm just wondering
this is so small compared
to you know
if you're standing on Walnut Street
and you actually shave
you can be able to
I'm smiling
because my
14 year old
and 18 year old kids
say to me
i why i if you know you know whatever right that acronym is thank you ms win and and i believe
i i believe that the the hope is that people know that it's here but also
right over the door there there is a there is one that's approved yeah but this is adding
a nice uh touch to the top and we have gold color no it's uh it's a brush at all it's my
understanding however there are lots of layers of review and it's not not necessarily appropriate
for discussion before the zoning board but there's a greater policy question for the city of
philadelphia about opening our doors to business and everyone has an opinion uh and there are those
who have really wanted to focus on the historic architecture so we're doing the best we can
i understand i understand that i mean i i'm not objecting right i'm just wondering if it's going
to be you know if particularly if you're standing right in front of the building you're not going
to see it if you're right in front if you're walking by across the street and you look up at
the at the facade you'll see it and you hopefully you'll want to come in if you didn't know it was
there exactly yes okay all right i have a question about the fasteners which i'm sure
also came up with the historic review it looks like the sign is not sitting flush to the stone
and so how is uh drainage or like water
And so how is drainage or like water management going to happen around the sign?
manage
Well, it is not flush to the stone, which is actually a little bit better because it's designed to connect in as discreet a way and non-invasive a way as possible to protect the historic resource and allow water behind it and cleaning as necessary repair.
it's it's a small space but enough to achieve those objectives okay
questions or comments from our attorney uh no chair questions or comments from
the virtual audience i do not see any hands raised at the time mr commission
good afternoon chair members of the board michael gall with the philadelphia city
planning commission the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing zoning
of cmx5 commercial mixed use at this location the proposed proposal completed its civic design
review in january 2025 the civic design review committee's advisory recommendations are not an
expression of the city planning commission's recommendation or opinion regarding zoning
variances special exceptions or other discretionary approvals associated with this proposal an appeal
for a sign at the first level floor level was granted under zp 20 24012054 there are no other
signs on this block on either side that are at this height the appellant has not demonstrated
that the absence of the proposed second sign at the gable would cause economic detriment
city planning commission therefore recommends the board deny requested variants for sign height
thank you um mi2025 001 570 1617 walnuts street i vote yes michael johns my vote is yes
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.
As a Chicagoan born in the 90s, I feel like I probably should have to recuse myself, but Tywin, my vote is yes.
Let's not count her vote.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.
Number four, MI 2025-001-571-6948-50 Tarsdale Avenue.
Vern Anastasio is the attorney.
there's a letter of unanimous support from taconi civic five votes total including two
near neighbors and a letter from council member driscoll the council offices in support of the
rco's recommendation good afternoon mr chair council could you please state your name as
spell for the stenographer yep it's verne anastasio a-n-a-s-t-a-s-i-o do you swear or
affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes sir do you identify your client
relationship to this property individuals harvey schmidt schmidt and michael daly for today
um do you waive the reading of the refusal and agree with its accuracy
i do why don't you start your presentation thank you
members of the board mr chair we have a 113 page exhibit packet that i'm going to move into
evidence i will not go through every page but this is in fact an application for a group home
for veterans and specifically as i said for vets and from the love pray peace project
Their information is included in my exhibit packet.
It's a nationally recognized veteran services organization, and they help vets bridge the gap back into permanent housing solutions.
And what we have here is going to be this property is a longstanding institutional residential property.
property. It used to be part of a church complex, specifically a convent. For 70 years, it has
served in some form or fashion as an institutionalized residential home. And that's
based on the history that I also submit under evidence today. And with that said,
the property, as you'll see in photos, it's impossible to convert at this point to a single
family home. After all of that, as such, the community was happy that we were occupying it,
and we got unanimous support from them as well as the council office, which is unusual for a
use like this. So I think that speaks volumes. And with that, I'm going to go over the plans with you.
I'm going to pull out briefly and then with questions we can zoom in.
i'm going to pull out uh briefly and then with question
This is just the overall site plan.
Then we have the first floor here, which is lots of living space.
There are one or two bedrooms on the first floor.
but mostly living dining and entry hall living space an office the kitchen
we got the second floor with bedrooms and baths and we've got the third floor
with bedrooms and baths right there second floor is on the right bottom third floor is
on the right top basement is mostly storage and utilities here's the photos
Roof of posting, exterior,
There's the mailing that went out to all immediate neighbors, inviting them not only to the RCO meeting, but to the community meeting.
Sixty three individual households were mailed.
Resulting in unanimous vote from Tocconi Civic Association came with a letter as well.
So here's some of the information about the nonprofit that I had mentioned earlier about
offering affordable and safe housing for vets, financial literacy, and veteran benefits,
making sure that they connect those vets with those benefits.
All of that is being moved into evidence.
uh and hold on then we have the property history well-documented 70 years mostly
some sort of residential group home convent
and all of that is being moved into evidence as well
and finally
I wanted to just briefly
show you some exterior
shots these were recently
as yesterday
all nice and cleaned up
we have a property management company
who will be handling the
exterior maintenance and upkeep
of the property and we
end with council member
Driscoll's letter of full
support
because of the property's long history
serving uses very much like this one
because we have come to the community
and explained our plan
and have earned unanimous support
because it would be physically impossible
to turn this very large home
into a single family dwelling
that would be sustainable.
I respectfully request
the granting of the variance
and as such,
So I asked my client to raise his virtual hand.
Before we move on, Ryan, could you handle the whole parking issue?
I see there's a missing refusal for parking.
Just one moment, Jerry.
Sure, take your time.
Yeah, I wasn't aware of that.
Harvey Smith is your client?
Sure, I'll be right with him.
He's been promoted.
yeah so missing a refusal for off street accessory parking um minimum of uh two spaces
and it's uh so yeah so it's i think it's uh i think we can go on i think we just got to put
it on the record sorry sorry so for uh off street accessory parking it's one per 20 sleeping units
plus a minimum of two spaces okay it's not it's not being provided and yeah the street itself i
mean as the mailing showed that there wasn't weren't many residential homes uh involved here
this is not a highly dense neighborhood so off street parking will suffice thank you all right
could you bring your client on yep mr schmidt should be on mr schmidt
hey i'm not sure if you can see me or not i can't sir yeah could you please state your
I can, sir. Yeah. Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
name is bell for the stenographer sure my name is
Sure. My name is Harvey Schmidt. First name H-A-R-V-E-Y. Last name Schmidt, S-E-H-M-I-D-T.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Schmidt, did you hear my presentation to the board today?
I did.
True and accurate to the best of your knowledge?
Yes, yes. Very true.
and you adopt it as your own testimony correct i will say there also is two parking spots in the
back okay uh so that adds thank you nothing further thank you uh bernie how many people
are we talking about that can stay there well for this current uh tenant uh because their
requirements are one person per room right now we there's only 15 bedrooms uh but historically
speaking most of those rooms are double occupancies so and in the past the last use it was up to 37
folks I'm not saying we're ever going to get there but it is we we can you know it's an it's it's a
unique situation that there's only one person per bedroom because of this particular tenant
okay thank you questions from the board yeah how many how are you addressing accessibility a lot
veterans have mobility issues. How is accessibility being addressed? The first floor will have two
units and there will be a build out as part of the CO process to ensure that those are
at least adaptable, if not accessible. What about the ramps to the building?
If necessary, they're going to do whatever they need to do.
If I could add, there is a ramp already there. Can you go back to the plans just very quickly?
sure and i believe mr schmidt wants to add there's a ramp on the left side of the building
thank you is it in the driveway that current driveway it's on the other side
so if you go back to the photo uh of the front of the building the gray
if you uh scroll down just a bit it shows a picture of the front of the building
right there it's fine so um so i don't know if you can see it on the right hand side of the
building right where your cursor is that is a point of egress right that is that is a ramp
um for you know elderly individuals who need you know help with uh you know wheelchair you know
it's wheelchair accessible for those that need it okay and that that extends to that goes up to the
to the round floor the first floor level correct this swings all the way to the front and the back
of the property you can enter the property from either side and have access to that right okay
other questions outdoor space for uh the residents uh is that this front yard would be used for some
outdoor space for them or any yes ma'am yes ma'am the front of the property there's a uh you'll see
If he's right there, I don't know if you can see, there are two picnic tables right there on the right-hand side under the tree, but that whole area is used for outdoor space.
Thank you.
Okay, so how many bathrooms do we have?
No, we have it here.
Just give me one moment.
15 bedrooms.
15 bedrooms.
How many bathrooms?
Let's take a look.
uh six in total thank you mr schmidt sure i said no much energy are these full baths each of these
so five of them five of them are full bathrooms and there's a half bath on the first floor um
as well as a full bath on the first floor that's handicapped accessible okay and then um you're
going to have is there going to be support staff there that aid the yeah there'll be a rotating
uh shift support uh at at the facility okay and how many people is that going to be
i don't know at least one person per shift i would think yeah historically it's uh it's been
uh two to four people during the daytime um so just to you know keep an eye on everyone
can you can you explain where this ramp is on this plan because it if this is or it doesn't
show a ramp maybe can't maybe if we go here mr mr schmidt well it is not on the plan so that
right that's what i'm saying it's not on here at all yeah not on the site it's not there's on the
plan right this right the stairs the stairs are on the plan and there's no ramp
Right. The stairs are on the plan and there's no ramp. I mean, I heard you describe it, but I just don't see it.
at the front, right?
It's his sworn testimony that it exists.
The questions.
Yeah. How are the residents, the veterans referred to you? Do they come from a program or how does this work?
That's a good question. I'm going to have Mr. Schmidt talk briefly about that.
Sure. So actually the city of Philadelphia refers them to us.
They come as referrals and the city of Philadelphia pays for them through the HUD program.
So it's a programming initiative through the city that allows us to even meet the
the veterans and actually pay for them to live in these facilities.
Also, if if a veteran is homeless, we can actually recommend that he go to an organization such as Grace Cafe,
who helps support these initiatives, and they will then refer them to us so that we can give them housing.
so so this facility you have a sort of a continuum of care to assisted living or how does it work
no the average stays about two weeks that mr schmidt can get into it a little bit more
transitional house it is yeah exactly this is a stepping stone into permanent permanent housing
right any other questions questions from our attorney i just want to send out that
We're going to need the updated packet council presented to the board along with the updated proof of tax compliance.
Thank you very much.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience or the current audience?
This binder, by the way, was updated, but the tax compliance, I do believe, just expired.
So we'll get that to you.
They're annoying, Chair.
We checked it.
We checked it.
Doreen?
do we have anybody oh no hands chair okay planning commission
good afternoon chair and members of the board michael gall with the city planning commission
the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing rsa3 residential single family
attached zoning at this location the proposed use is consistent with documented prior uses
and should cause no detriment to neighboring properties beyond what might be expected
The City Planning Commission therefore recommends that the board grant the requested variances for group living and minimum parking allowance.
MI 2025 001 571 6948 to 50 Tarsall Avenue. I vote yes.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
Tana Graham, my vote is yes.
Tywin, my vote is yes.
Thank you, counsel.
Thank you.
Number eight, MI-2025-001-579, 1989 North 63rd Street.
Alan Nockamson is the attorney.
Mr. Nockamson, there's a letter of support from Overbrook West Neighbors
contingent on a proviso of a temporary special exception.
Could you just state your name for the record?
Alan Nockamson.
To identify your client, the relationship to this property.
Yes, my client is McDonald, Real Estate Management, LLC,
and in the virtual audience is this member, Kevin McDonald.
There are two referrals.
You waived the rating of the referrals, and you agreed with your accuracy.
Please start your presentation.
Thank you.
I am not a panelist now, so I just need to be promoted.
Thank you.
You have been promoted.
All right.
So our packing materials for this special exception case includes 12 exhibits, and there were 51
and addresses notified of the community meeting.
During our presentation, we'll first review the notice of referral.
As the chairman stated, there are two exceptions to this matter.
The first is really an expansion of the use of a therapist's office.
of the use of a therapist's office. Originally, there was only the second floor of the property
originally there was only the second
had a therapist's office. We want to expand it to the third floor, so that use is existing
and has been for some time, and I have a permit which shows that. The second use is on the ground
floor. Originally, there was a furniture store there in that commercial space for some time.
We're looking to put a church there, also a special exception.
The community group, the Overbrook West Neighbors, Inc., had no opposition in support of this project so long as we agreed to a temporary variance for the length of the lease for the church.
And I have in my presentation packet a lease amendment which says that the lease term goes through September 30th of 2029.
So if this board is inclined to grant the variance or the special exception request,
we would ask that it would last for the church only until September 30th of 2029.
Again, you'll see use permits for this property showing various uses that are still currently there.
You'll see the beauty salon, which is on the first floor of the structure,
and that was a use permit in 2007.
And then you'll also see about the therapist's office in 2006.
And then maps of the area.
We are a CMX 2 1⁄2 property.
We would like to have therapist's office on the second and third floor,
have the existing use of the salon remain on the first floor,
and then to have where the furniture store used to be, a church.
And then photographs of the property here.
you can see the existing salon is right here this is the old furniture store and the second
and third floors have the therapist office or at least we would like it to be expanded to a third
story this is a proof of posting for today's hearing this is north 63rd street to the right
of property to the left of the property our interior photos so these are the therapist's
My client directly leases to therapists.
It's almost like a WeWorks therapist where it's rotating.
There are six offices in there.
These are the offices and the waiting room.
Another office, waiting room, and the different offices in there.
This is the church structure.
The church is about 1,500 square feet.
And they have a good following in the neighborhood.
They just want a different space.
And then this is the salon right here.
This is the church structure looking to the front door for the church space.
Beauty salons here.
I believe this is the beauty salon as well.
And then just basically our plans.
So I'm just going to expand out a little bit.
but you can see here this is the church this is the beauties oh actually i'm sorry that's not
there you go this is the beauty salon this is what we hope to be the church building
there's direct access for each in the front there's also exit access in the rear for both as
well instead of the first floor you go up to the second floor through a separate entrance
and then the second and third floors are all of the offices these are the existing offices there
and then on the third floor where we're hoping to expand that use are these additional offices i do
believe that they're there so it may be a legalization of that use
oops again we met with the community on may 29th at 6 30 p.m it was a very well attended meeting
Again, they were very passionate about the fact they wanted a temporary variance for the church, which we don't object to.
And then this is part of the community meeting notice that we sent out.
We also emailed that notice to relevant parties a couple weeks before the community meeting.
Again, we sent it to 51 addresses.
Those are listed to the addresses, proof of mailing to those addresses, or applications for a special exception.
notice of referral project information form deeds of property showing mcdonald real estate
management llc is the owner of the property and then finally the leases and just want to
point out the lease specifically for the church where it says the poems going to get to it
Where it says the, hold on, I'm just going to get to it.
It's September 30th of 2029.
And then Certificate of Tax Clearance.
As this board knows, the legal standard seeking a special exception is much lower than a variance.
We don't have to prove undue hardship.
We just have to show that the use that we're proposing is no worse than what you would typically expect of a use of this sort.
So first, for the therapist's office, they have been legally there on the second floor for almost a generation, and there's been no complaints.
The community had no objection to that use being expanded to a third story.
And as far as the church, again, the use is no worse than what you would typically expect.
And we're diminishing the potential impact to the community by having a temporary variance until September 30th of 2029.
With that being said, I would ask that Mr. MacDonald virtually raise his hand.
They've been a promoter to panel this, sir.
I'm not sure.
Counsel, what is the name of the individual?
MacDonald.
Yeah, M-C-D-O-N-N-E-L-L.
Kevin.
I have a hand up for my number ending in 6259.
Let's see who that is.
Right away.
I've been allowed to talk.
Mr. McDonald?
Please unmute.
Once again, sir or madam, please unmute and wait to be sworn in.
Mr. McDonald?
Mr. McDonald.
Yes, I may be having a technical difficulty, so you can proceed.
Alan, you're an officer of the court, and we'll accept your testimony.
Thank you.
Questions from the board?
you said that the okay can i see this plant again so on the first floor we're going to have
this church and the beauty salon beauty salon yeah the the beauty salon is an existing use
it's on the left hand side let me uh it is approximately 800 square feet and the church
is approximately 1500 square feet let me just say that okay so for the church how many people
are going to be uh the congregation's around like 20 to 30 right now um okay you know it's not a
large congregation all right but i mean i'm not seeing like pews or benches no it's a very informal
setting like they're also going to have like um you know just play it's a place of just gathering
the congregation beyond sunday but not that much and let me just uh
yeah it's just community activities and such there are many members of the of that church
that live nearby in that community and they're basically um don't have a a static place to
to congregate okay but let me get let me get you the the floor plans
there we go so as you can see here this is the salon space and that's existing and i believe
it's been existing since either 2006 or 7 and there's a permit of record and this is not the
subject of today's special exception request what is the subject of today's special exception
request is the commercial empty space on the right-hand side that was previously a furniture
store and has been empty for some time. We're seeking to have that as the congregation space
and for gatherings and community events for that congregation. Again, it's not a large space. It's
not small. It's 1,500 square feet, and the congregation is only 20 to 30 people.
okay and you said they're all in the neighborhood is that they're located nearby so we're not going
to have traffic issues no no and and we're on a bus route of 65 and 105 and the trolley line of
t1 but that's right there's they're mostly walking there okay and the beauty salon is
Beauty salon is the same.
the same well i know it's not part of this yeah i mean
Well, I know it's not part of this.
Yeah, I mean, it's a neighborhood beauty salon.
Thank you.
There's not, again, I haven't been there.
And I don't need it, really.
But, like, but, you know, and then the therapist's office is already on the second floor.
I'm not 100%.
I think it's a legalization on the third story.
But, you know, it's been there.
the second floor at least has been there for almost you know 2006 or 7 almost a generation
so okay it's been medical the whole time yeah it's been a therapist office the whole time okay
and you said there were how many six i think believe there's six offices there
so but the plans here let me just go to here so you have one two three there's a print there's a
photocopy room over here, a few bathrooms,
a little waiting area here, some storage.
That's the second story.
I can move this thing over.
Let me stop sharing my screen for a second
and like see if I can move this over.
All right, let me reshare my screen.
See if we can do this again.
All right, let's try to enlarge this right here, if I can, there we go, uh, so it looks
like there's one, that's the fourth office, fifth office, and sixth office, and then there's
meaning area are we gonna have uh uh noise issues i mean i don't know how what kind of
worship services or services this church is going to have but are we looking at
are we concerned about the noise that may be generated and how that might affect the other
uses within the building so i think the complementary um because the church is going
to be congregating on sundays where the doctor's offices i don't believe those hours of operation
are on sundays okay i can't speak for the beauty salon but i think they're complementary in nature
okay all right actually i'm looking at my notes the beauty salon is actually closed on sundays
and Mondays. So they're definitely complementary in nature. Other questions? Thank you. Yes. Do you
have a sense of the concerns of the RCO? I know they wanted a contingent approval based on the
sort of tenancy of the building, but looking at the block, it looks like everything on that block
is either a religious space or a beauty-related business. So I was curious as to what made them
decide that this one needed to be temporary.
So all I can tell you is I think they were very adamant
that they want to improve their commercial corridor.
They had nothing against the church itself.
They just wanted something else there.
And we stated, well, we've been trying for some time.
And there is a need in the community for this congregation
to find a static place.
And I agree.
I saw, like when I was looking at the photos,
The contextual photos to the left is a huge church, it looks like, down the block.
But I think there's a need for certain people in this community to meet.
And then was there a previous special exception already approved?
Are we sort of legalizing the three businesses that have already existed?
No, the church is not in there currently.
No, I don't believe so.
No, because there's a church in there on Google Maps.
so i can't tell you i don't believe it's that i honestly don't know the the beauty salon is legal
because from previous permits and then the second floor is definitely illegal for the therapist's
office based on what i'm seeing from the pictures and i'm not 100 sure that may be a legalization
it was a previously i i think an apartment at one point the building says it was a law office
okay i i looked at i i thought i said somewhere it was an apartment one of the permits
said the third story was an apartment at one point.
But it could have been.
Who knows how far back, though?
All right.
Other questions?
I have a quick question. So there's a lot going on in the building.
Could you go back to the
drawings so I can see what's happening
at the rear of the building and
exits for each
business on the
first floor? Yeah, they each do.
So let me try to get...
Let me try to get...
Oh, jeez.
Oh, jeez, that's not...
And is there a rear yard or no?
There is for each one.
So they both have rear access, both of them.
So here's the rear access for the beauty salon.
And I can drag my cursor, and here's the rear access for the church right here.
And is that where trash and...
Yeah, I would believe so.
I would believe so.
i don't believe there's a basement for this property so yes i would think that the trash
would be stored in the rear again both the there's you know there's a kitchenette there
there's no cooking on the premises it's a very light use in terms of the amount of hours of
operation for the church and i would think it's grab and go a lot in terms of cleanup
for the beauty salon it's very light you know in terms of the trash during the week
questions from our attorney
no chair
questions or comments from the audience
or the virtual audience
yes chair the individual with the number
ending in 6259
if I raise their hand again
I'm going to allow them to speak one more time
number ending in 6259
could you please state your name
I think the person has got two devices
please turn off your other device
if you have another one on please thank you it's star six to unmute
yeah i don't i don't think that's working well
okay cleaning commission
good afternoon i'm sorry to interrupt you mr chair there's three other hands raised okay
the first hand is gregory allen i've allowed them to speak
hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer yes sir chair my name is
gregory allen g-r-e-g-o-r-y-a-l-l-e-n right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the
whole truth and nothing but the truth yes sir i do you a neighbor i am um i am the charity rco
and please proceed of the of overbrook west neighbors yep
please proceed okay so um you are correct there there has was virtually no objection
to the existing tenants who have been there for a long time or to legalizing the third floor.
I think the objection of most neighbors had to do with a religious assembly on the ground floor.
And while we recognize the good that the religious assembly might do, Ms. Gaston is correct. There are six other congregations within the area, all of whom will impact the area.
In addition, Ms. Wynn is correct that there have been a similarity to the businesses that have been in the area.
And we've been working to diversify that a little bit.
There are quite a few vacancies.
Some of that has to do with the church occupancy on the 6200 block of Lancaster.
And it also concerns us that at the time of the request for this variance, simultaneous to it, that the owner had the property up for sale, I believe he entered into a lease with the tenant prior to the property being approved as a religious assembly, and then later withdrew the property from sale.
And when we asked him why there was signage on the property as a religious assembly withdrew that as well. So we never had an opportunity to review the lease. Again, we didn't know that they were asking for 2029. We were thinking two years, three years maximum, but that's a four year lease.
and so um that that's not consistent with our understanding there there's also one other person
on this call that would like to be heard um who is the president of the overrook farms
um club the local neighborhood association okay um thank you very much for taking the time to
Thank you very much for taking the time to call. Alan, do you have any questions?
calls alan do you have any questions no
No. I mean, the only thing I would state is that if the board feels that the, I guess, four-year temporary variance is too long and they want to put the church on a shorter time frame, we defer to the board in that respect.
All I would say, it's a very expensive, long, this is a very expensive, long process for many, and it's a non-profit, and we would hope that the board would take that into account.
Thank you.
And the next person on the list.
Yes, Thaddeus Squire.
I will let him speak.
Good afternoon.
Thanks.
Can you hear me?
Thaddeus, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Thaddeus Squire, T-H-A-D-D, as in David, E-U-S.
Last name, S-Q-U-I-R-E.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, indeed.
And you're a neighbor.
I am a neighbor.
Sorry.
Please proceed.
Yeah, I'm a neighbor and also chair of the Overbrook Farms Club, which is the RCO adjacent to Overbrook West neighbors.
And we do actually share some jurisdictional overlap on 63rd Street in the Commercial Corridor, which is the reason I'm here today.
uh and i i can echo very briefly um you know first of all just to to respond to a couple comments um
from the owner's representation um you know the owner i i understand is a for-profit and private
owner i'm assuming they're bearing the cost uh for this variance as it's their obligation and
not the church so i just want to uh state that as a question uh to the previous comment and to
board member Wynn's comment about the other churches on the corridor, you know, from our
research, we do not see that they are zoning compliant. They are actually there not in a
compliant manner, and that has just simply not been challenged. So I don't think there's real
precedent for this kind of exception legally on the corridor. We certainly support the upper
store uses, as well as the hair salon. No objections there. We also have nothing against
certainly places of worship and faith communities. In the neighborhood, there are quite a few.
But we also see lots of purpose-built churches where a congregation like this could find a home
instead of a perfectly viable commercial storefront. And so we share Mr. Allen's
um kind of objection to um in principle to this exception for this storefront because we'd like
to see other um more more retail and kind of community uh facing businesses go into a space
like this and feel that it's otherwise perfectly suited to that um and you know the fact that the
owner hasn't been able to find a tenant of a compliant tenant is is the owner's problem
so that said um and and we really you know just underscore i wanted to underscore the fact that
that it's not so much traffic or noise or some of the other good questions that the members have
brought up uh we're not concerned about that but it really is just the vitality of the commercial
corridor and its usability to the broader community uh and we don't believe that storefront churches
really contribute to that at this juncture.
So, however, like Overbrook West,
we are okay with a temporary exception
and would likewise strongly support
a 24-month to 36-month agreement over a four-year.
So that is about all I have to say.
Thank you very much for your time.
Thank you. Any questions, Alan?
No, other than the fact that, again,
this is not a variance request this is a special exception request this use is conditionally
approved under the philadelphia zoning code we have met our burden to show that the use that
we're proposing is no worse than what you would typically expect then burden has to shift to
the community who has supported this project uh at a community meeting uh to show that our use
is detrimental and in some specific way not conceptual way specific way to the community
which they have not shown. Thank you.
Anyone else in the virtual audience?
Yes, I have a hand up from Kevin Chapman.
I will allow them to speak.
Hi, Mr. Chapman.
Good afternoon.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yes, my name is Kevin. That's K-E-V-I-N.
Chapman, C-H-A-P, as in Paul, M-A-N.
Do you swear or affirm the tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Are you a neighbor?
I'm a neighbor, nearby neighbor, considered by the panel, as well as a member, associate minister at the Word Church of Philadelphia.
I'm a neighbor, a nearby neighbor, considered by the panel.
I'm the assistant pastor there at the church.
Are you for this project or against the project?
I am for the project.
All right, thank you.
You want to give us just a few reasons why?
Yes. One of the several of the reasons as a church, a small congregation, we were looking for space, as it's been stated, to use for our congregation that goes for perhaps up to about 30 members.
We also have a partnership with several of the businesses, a couple of the businesses that are nearby, one being the daycare center, where we are able to partner with them to use for our youth that come into the church for services.
So we don't have all all the members there in one space at one time.
But we've tried to partner with different groups, businesses that are in the community and to do something positive with a space that has otherwise been vacant for a number of years, bringing nothing into the community.
One of the other things I'd like to speak to is that what we're looking to do as a congregation is to bring community back into the community, such as services, being specific to offer dance training for girls between the ages of 6 to 13 years old.
um we started out you know trying to do programs of that nature also senior seminars that we have
a plan to do senior seminars to bring forth information for medicare benefits as well as
estate planning for seniors in the community these are some these are not just for our church members
but to be able to offer these things for the community uh as far as uh we also do have
Our services, we have a good working relationship with both of the businesses beside us, the beauty salon, as well as above us, who if we do have a special service on a Saturday, we've never had any issues or problems with whether it be noise or traffic or anything like that.
we do with consideration of the community. Having come from a local congregation that was in a
community and parking was an issue, we make it a point to park down the street. The school is
closed on Sundays, where we're generally there, as well as Saturdays, so we make it a point to
park in other areas to make it as non-competitive as possible. One of the other things, and I'll just
kind of speak to is that we also have upcoming events where the meeting space, I'm thanking
Attorney Notkinson for speaking to that. One of the things that we'll utilize in that space,
we'll be part of partnering to do a back-to-school drive that won't be held in that community.
We understand, you know, we've been dealing with some of the oppositions, not understanding why
that when we're bringing services in a community, why we would have such opposition from a community
that we're trying to offer positive things where there's shootings and things like that and i'm not
going on a political rant but however we will have a location or we're going to use the we
would like to be able to use this the space to do the packing of up to 200 backpacks and then we're
going to go into other communities and put out information where uh people will be able to come
and get backpacks we have back to school we have uh other projects for our community so while we're
small, there's a lot that we're doing, not competing with
other churches in the community, but to offer things outside the
surrounding community to make a difference.
Mr. Chapman, we appreciate your input. Thank you. Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?
Yes, Mr. Chair. I have a Felicia Richardson.
I've allowed them to speak.
Hi, Ms. Richardson. Yes, can everyone hear me?
We can.
Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Felicia Richardson, F as in Frank, E-L-I-C-I-A, last name Richardson, R-I-C-H-A-R-D-S-O-N.
Right.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, told truth, nothing but the truth?
I affirm, sir.
Ms. Richardson, are you a neighbor?
Yes, I live in the 19151 area.
Are you in favor of this proctored or against?
Are you in favor or against?
Oh, I'm in favor.
And I'm also a member of the church.
Ms. Richardson, listen, can you tell us anything other than what we just heard from the minister?
Yes, I wanted to speak on someone asked about the trash and how that's handled.
Someone had asked about the trash and how that's handled.
We don't create a lot of trash, but we actually collect our trash.
Mostly we're there on Sundays and some Saturdays, and we take the trash with us.
I am a property manager as well.
I also send someone to the property to not only clean in front of our area, but we clean the whole entire block.
right um as uh reverend chapman had mentioned about the helping of the area we have noticed a
lot of um like people that look like they were without food or homeless um we invited them into
our church and we fed them and we gave not only inside the church but also we've given them food
to take out with them um so i just wanted to make sure you understood that as far as the trash is
concerned there is no problem there because we're making sure that it stays clean and we also we've
gotten a lot of uh gratitude from the other businesses for um just cleaning up the whole
block and we're not charging anybody for anything we're just doing that because we're part of the
community mr richardson we want to thank you for taking the time to cause we appreciate it
is there any other hands yes sir ryan watson how many more hands do you have jason just this one
just one more after ryan watson okay mr watson hi hi could you please state your name and spell
for the stenographer this is ryan watson r-y-a-n-w-a-t-s-o-n you swear or affirm to tell
the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do are you a neighbor uh yes are you in favor
this project or against? I'm against. Mr. Watson, we've had a great deal of testimony,
I guess, to what I'll call the people being against. Is there anything you're going to
offer that we haven't already heard? Absolutely. Yeah. So I want to, I guess,
offer the perspective of a neighbor that's, you know, along 6300 Woodbine and does, you know,
already experience uh a degree of parking issues on uh on sundays um so we have as kind of many
point out you know a bunch of religious organizations that are kind of in this corridor
um you can look on google maps the city website our lady of lords jesus holy temple celestial
church japanese christian church the green hill i think i'm familiar with the area and i think i
know about the churches that are there sir so um you know it's it's it it's one of those things
where um i guess you know where we're kind of where we're where we're located on the street
we're already running into parking issues on the on the sunday morning so i wanted to provide i
wanted to provide that and um you know as uh as uh a parent of a of a young child you know getting
into and out of a car seat carrying them to and from the car it just makes you know that part of
kind of day-to-day living it makes it a bit more a bit more difficult um additionally um i guess i
you know wanted to point out um you know greg allen kind of mentioned um i think uh the update
on the was it four-year lease now in the community leading meeting that i think we all voted on i
believe it was presented as a two-year lease. So that's a big change. I guess just generally what
else I'd say in terms of the current owner and, quote, the inability to find a tenant,
maybe some of this reflects the lack of otherwise investment in the area, right? I mean,
I mean, if I walk along this corridor in this area, it doesn't look like anyone has really invested in these buildings.
If I were a business, I don't know that the state of the area, the condition it's in, the condition that these commercial real estate owners keep things in, I don't know that that would make it super, super appealing.
So I'd like to see, you know, in line with in line with other voices, I'd like to see more commercial development here.
And I'm just worried that, you know, a church kind of yet another church front that's going to remain open or going to remain closed most of the week isn't going to move the needle on us.
OK, Mr. Watson, we appreciate your input and we understand your concern.
We have one more hand.
Yes, Fenton Calloway, I have allowed them to speak
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
mr callaway please unmute and wait to be sworn in
Fenton Calloway, please unmute and wait to be sworn in
okay yes mr callaway could you state your name as bell for the photographer
vincent v-i-n-c-e-n-t callaway c-a-l-l-o-w-a-y you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth yes sir mr callaway are you a neighbor yes i live around
the corner mr calaway are you for this project or against i'm 100 for the project um we appreciate
your uh your input and thank you for calling it is there anyone else no further hands mr chair
planning commission hold on alan do you want to say anything real i i don't want to be
planning commission good afternoon michael gall with the city planning commission
the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the commercial mixed-use zoning at this location
the applicant has demonstrated that the proposed uses religious assembly and group medical dental
and health practitioner would not be detrimental to neighboring properties beyond what might
otherwise be expected these uses are in character with both previous uses of this property and with
similar uses in the immediate vicinity the city planning commission therefore recommends the board
grant both the proposed special exceptions for religious assembly and for group medical dental
and health practitioner uses.
Hillary's asked me to hold a vote on this until next Wednesday.
We'll vote at 2 o'clock.
When it was first written, it says,
for use as religious assembly and personal service is the hair salon.
And I think the hair salon is by right, so we just want to make sure.
Of course.
So we'll vote on this next Wednesday at 2 p.m.
All right. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
number 10 mi-2025-001-745-3810 the oak road julie bernstein is the attorney
do me a favor make sure that's want to get it real close to you good afternoon
Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Julie Bernstein, J-U-L-I-E, last name Bernstein, B-E-R-N-S-T-E-I-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Did you identify your client and the relationship to the property?
My client is Fred Gerhart and Martha Cooper, and they are the owners of their property.
you um you waive the reading of the refusals and agree with their accuracy i will and i do
please start your presentation so uh
good afternoon again julie bernstein with kathlyn stewart i represent the owners fred
gearhart and martha cooper um the owners of 3810 the oak road and they're the applicants here
seeking zoning relief fred and martha own a residential property located um on the sort of
southwestern side of the oak road it's between mid val and uh the west schoolhouse lane the
property zone rsd3 and uh which is residential single family detached it's a very irregularly
shaped parcel i just currently have up kind of the overall plan and it is this parcel right here
and it actually cuts in currently and then sort of diagonals can you make that bigger please
so this is the property and currently actually there's a little square that's not owned by
um the applicants uh it's this the property that they currently owned is improved with a single
family dwelling um and a kind of detached garage that's taken access off of a kind of narrow
driveway that you kind of have to turn sharply to the left to get into this existing garage um
fred and martha are planning on purchasing this sort of square shaped to square off the southern
corner of their property. This corner right here did previously also have a detached garage on it
that was quite dilapidated. I'll show you photos in a minute. Can you speak a little more into the
mic, please? Is this better? Yes, much better. Okay, sorry about that. So just quickly, so this
is kind of the property that they own. It's very irregularly shaped. And then there's a little kind
of square at the corner they have an agreement of sale which we've included with our packet
the intent is to purchase this corner which would square off this is kind of
the intent is to purchase this corner which would square off this is kind of the southernmost
corner of their property and there used to be it was demolished because it was in terrible
condition but there used to be a kind of garage here and they have a garage here on their property
the plan is to demolish the current smaller garage and build a new garage in that place
reference for some reference we'll get back to kind of our but I think this might help everyone
so as you can see this is this is the property and then this is kind of the neighboring property
that had a little garage you can kind of see it here and they're going to purchase that kind of
corner um if you see here this is the street view so you can see their single family dwelling
slightly behind there's like very very mature landscaping on the property um that's quite
beautiful there's over a hundred year old trees this is the driveway access it's quite narrow
the garage would be behind this um there is the garage there that's behind it that you cannot see
and that would continue to be the situation if this relief is approved so and just as i mentioned
this was the former kind of garage that i mentioned was in quite terrible condition so it was torn down
and it was right next to this garage which is on their property just for reference this is a
neighboring detached garage that's 25 feet in height just so that you have a sense of
kind of and there's a house a single family house behind that
so the goal is that the new garage
will kind of fit into this niche on top of already kind of impervious area in order to provide them
better access so that they can enter more without kind of scraping the side of the car as they get
in so they have appropriate bays that they can have storage space which really can kind of
initially compelled this and to have sort of a studio space upstairs or workshop when the plan
was originally presented to the RCO they did propose to have a kind of more
traditional sized roof that would make the height of the building so that they
could have the second-story workshop to be 90 21 feet nine and a half inches in
height um and again as i mentioned the neighboring property has kind of the 25
foot height so that it would still be kind of in scale and slightly lower but provide for this
functional space um as i think you guys are aware the rco did submit a letter expressing that there
that their members themselves lacked support for this proposal and um when they initially went to
present this proposal it was expressed by members of the community or members
of the RCO sorry because there was one neighbor that attended that wasn't
support of this proposal the RCO themselves were concerned about the
scale and in terms of the fact that it looked residential to them so that it
could potentially be used for an ADU despite the fact that there's no kind of
kitchen presented are being proposed here. The owners are
not proposing a residential secondary residence here. And
as I think you guys all know, there are kind of regulations
governing that so if a future owner had such an interest, they
you know, would be obligated to comply with the law. At that
meeting, they did suggest kind of varying this to lower the
height to provide a dormer route, that would make it look
more like an accessory structure and so fred worked with his architect martin hebert who
prepared this plan and is with me this afternoon to consider kind of what modifications could be
made to address the rco while still providing this kind of functional additional space
based upon the feedback they did
drop down this roof to create a dormer roof but in evaluating it they you know realized that you know
The eight foot height ceiling is not a particularly high ceiling.
The idea is that the second floor is for use as a workshop,
and if you lower it, you're ending up with a crawl space
that doesn't provide kind of the reasonable use
of what they're looking for here.
And as you know, kind of these types of accessory uses
kind of these types of accessory uses are permitted in this district it's really just
are permitted in this district.
It's really just.
about the kind of size here that we're asking for a dimensional variance for um
so you know but you did lower date we did so in dropping it down we lowered it down to 22
feet two inches and actually at the dormer side it's 18 feet eight inches so we're 15 feet so it
does make it lower down kind of both visibly and kind of functionally to you know the higher side
of the roof the garage was you know not otherwise reduced because the additional storage and
workshop space was really what compelled the proposal and when they initially designed this
project they did consider alternate proposals on the property such as an addition to the house that
could provide that because they cannot have this kind of storage in the basement here but however
as i mentioned there's really mature landscaping all over the property there's the hundred year old
trees kind of right nearby that would all have to be taken down to provide additional impervious
whereas this was a location that really did have two structures right side by side to them and here
they're just proposing to basically push them together and create one that is more streamed
lined and will look nice kind of in the community you see this from the street you cannot see this
from the street it will be buffered so we did um
i'm having difficulty hearing i think she just walked away or backed up she's trying
get the computer for i i we hear you mr kelly sorry thank you make this smaller so that you
could see so this is kind of a proposed rendering if you drove up the driveway and took a left you
would see that you would not actually be able to see the house itself at the exact same time
there's kind of all of this mature landscaping that lines the driveway down this to the road
and it's kind of tucked into this little niche right there.
And Fred did actually reach out to his neighbors
and we have included five letters of support.
Some of them are actually non-opposition,
but within those kind of neighboring letters,
they noted things such as the fact
that they wouldn't be able to see it,
that they didn't see that this would
kind of have any sort of impact.
And there are actually very similar structures
in this neighborhood.
this kind of you know Philadelphia they're micro communities so this particular micro community has
a lot of larger scale homes that do have a lot of larger scale kind of detached structures so it is
aligned with what is kind of neighboring as I mentioned which would be higher and then even
we took got a couple photos of ones that were visible sorry can you hear me now that were
visible from the street that are also kind of two-story garage structures that are right
neighboring so this isn't going to actually change the makeup of the community it shouldn't have any
negative impact on the health safety and welfare and the goal is that it's really just an improvement
of the fact that there was kind of a dilapidated structure next to a very small garage that didn't
function it was hard to get into based upon the kind of unique shape of this property
i did kind of include i don't know that you guys want me running through it but we included the
deed the agreement of sale the notice of refusal and all of that with our package
um and i do have uh fred his wife is with me but fred's sitting right next to me
who could adopt my testimony and martin is also here who's the architect on the project why don't
we uh move the pull that close to you turn it on it's green so i'm so much on yeah yeah uh could
you please state your name and spell for the stenographer uh excuse me uh frederick gerhardt
F-R-E-D-E-R-I-C-K-G-E-R-H-A-R-T.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Fred, did you hear my presentation?
I did.
And was my presentation accurate,
and would you adopt this as your own testimony?
Yes, it was accurate, and yes, I adopted it, yes.
um and um i don't have further questions for you i anticipate the board might all right
questions from the board yes did you say did you say that you uh have a letter of support
by your right that the neighbor that's right adjacent to um where this um garage was proposed
so so yes one of the one of the neighbors um that's immediately adjacent does have a letter
one of the one of the neighbors um that's immediately adjacent does have a letter of
support the one thing that we did do and it's in our package here
is that there was proposed to be kind of a window facing them that's not part of kind of the zoning
here but the in agreement with them they removed that window so that there wasn't something looking
into their yard okay and they otherwise have a letter that says that they're in support of this
All right. Thank you.
Is there an updated subdivision plan?
So because it's in an agreement of sale, we would agree to kind of a proviso that says that we would be required to consolidate.
Ryan, are we allowed to do that?
Because that was going to be my question, because now we're subdividing something that's completely landlocked on all sides by residential properties, which we generally try not to prove.
As I understood it, it was a, what do you call it,
a change of the laundry line?
So that is now part of our lot.
It's not a separate piece of ground.
I mean, it's not separately deeded.
So it was a lot line relocation.
Exactly.
It was not a subdivision.
It's a lot line.
That's what they call it, a lot line adjustment.
And I think we have that.
We have an agreement of sale, and that's what would happen.
It wouldn't be its own separately unlocked lot.
it would be a become a part of um this 3810 the current property that we're here to discuss
council uh i don't have an exact answer off the top of my head it's something i would i would
need to look into but i but in terms of yeah i i do not know the answer off the top of my head
can i chime in a little more on kind of the legal side of it so it's sort of like a tenant that
comes in you know you have or you have we have equitable rights to that property so if you were
to grant this and for whatever reason that little piece of property didn't didn't close
we would have no rights to do that because we'd have no they would have no interest in that kind
I know, but we see these little ones that nobody's paid attention to.
I mean, we've had three in the last month that came to us that were these leftover pieces.
And then for the driveway right now, the driveway is only on your property, correct?
It is.
And the new garage or the old garages or the old buildings that are tearing down,
there adjacent or does additional construction need to be done to extend the asphalt drive to
this new structure well you're talking about the dilapidated garage that was torn down yeah the
one that was torn down because there was two right there was two there were two right next to each
other about six feet apart okay um and uh yeah the one that was torn down there now is a asphalt
that goes to the end of the driveway and then it's gravel uh right now to the left of that uh
and there's a hardscape uh where the old garage was the one that was torn down um i guess it's
called hardscape okay and then my second question is um are you planning to do automatic doors
yes and so will this i understand that you said like second floor is going to mostly be
storage and general use,
but is there going to be
a separate electric meter
and water line extension to the...
No, the existing garage
that's still there
has water, electricity,
and a drain,
I mean a waste drain.
But wouldn't those be connected
to the old property
that it needs to be connected to?
Well, we'll end up,
because I assume any,
you know, 10 years from now,
we're all going to be
driving electric cars,
so I want to put, you know,
better electricity in there so i can put some chargers in there um and then and the water will
probably upgrade it because it's been there for 100 years or over 100 years and the drain um i
think as well do you know it has a separate sewage drain or is it tied into the house at 38 it's
tied into the house right now it's high time at stokely street on yoke road yes yeah no well
it should be tied into the stokely street oh there's i don't they don't have any drainage
from the old garage the dilapidating garage okay not that i'm aware of anyway i mean i've been
there and i haven't seen anything just to be clear i think that the water is connected to
the current garage that's on the current property remember there's two garages and
that water line is connected to his house so it wouldn't be there the garage for 3810 yeah correct
so we wouldn't need to be moving a line from okay the neighboring property okay
that was my question yes questions from our attorney
that was my question yes questions from our attorney uh no chair questions or comments
from the virtual audience or the current audience yes chair i have a hand up from hillary nanger
i will melton
they should be back in shortly
mr langer yeah good afternoon this is mr langer you won't have been sworn in
just for the record state your name hillary j langer chair of east falls community council
zoning committee why don't you uh proceed with your testimony thank you um despite improvements
to the second floor aesthetic our position is opposed the proposed structure with full ac
improved running water and what looks like a 25 by 47 footprint which is 11 by
1,175 square foot footprint over two levels is oversized. It far exceeds the dimensional
requirements for an accessory structure, and its footprint will not even fit within that of
the primary structure. Albeit out of sight, due to mature trees, these trees are always vulnerable
to windstorms, such as the tornado that removed all the trees in the Fort Washington neighborhood.
Precars, the workshop, and storage can amply fit within the required dimensional standard
for an accessory structure. This is an accessory structure of overwhelming size, exceeding many
footprints of homes within East Falls, and we therefore oppose it, in that it will weaken
the character of detached single-family homes with these accessory structures.
Mr. Langer, can you see it from the street?
You cannot.
Okay, thank you.
However, the trees, I feel in my experience, are temporary.
The estate is being over 100 years old. That is an old tree, and it's only a matter of time before a tornado rips through East Falls, and suddenly the sedition is very visible.
All right. Counsel, do you have any questions?
well just briefly kind of in response the the scale of this particular accessory dwelling
would not actually fit inside of the current home it is a larger home and it is scaled in line with
this particular neighborhood while i understand that there are other neighborhoods or other even
parts of east falls that are denser and so they're perhaps smaller residences this area it really is
aligned and it will not have a negative impact on the character
of this kind of streetscape
or be kind of larger or out of place as to, as I mentioned,
some of the other and showed other accessory structures that
are on the same lot as principal dwellings on the block. Thank you.
Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?
I do not see any hands, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon. Michael Gall with the Philadelphia City Planning Commission.
The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing RSD-3 residential single-family detached zoning at this location.
There are no unique physical circumstances or conditions of this property that would prevent it from being used in conformance with the zoning code.
The appellant has not demonstrated that their proposed variance represents the least minimum relief necessary given the size and shape of the property and its context.
Therefore, the City Planning Commission recommends the board deny the requested variances for garage height and width.
So, Council, there's been a couple issues raised that we'd like to really take some time to look at.
We're going to handle this at executive session next Wednesday, and we will be voting on this at 2 p.m.
Great.
And thank you for your presentation.
Just briefly, Fred does have a quick comment.
Would you be willing to?
I'd like to comment on Hillary's statement.
One is if you look at the driveway, it's coming down at an angle.
In order to turn into the garage, you have to turn it more than a 90-degree angle.
you have to turn back and the existing garage door is 15 feet wide um and and when you put the
sliding doors out they still a folding door still take more than three feet so so i now have when i
come up and i'm very careful about this this eight foot wide driveway i turn into there and i can i
can do it but it's you know it's like almost 12 feet so if he's talking about a 35 foot garage
So if he's talking about a 35-foot garage, first of all, you couldn't fit a door on the front like he said you could.
And second, the most, the garage doors could, the greatest width would be eight feet.
And that is, you know, you have to turn back and forth to get in the garage.
All right, Mr. Gerhardt, we understand it.
We're going to vote on this next Wednesday at 2 p.m.
And thank you all for your presentations.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I just got a five minute sign, so we're going to take a five minute break and then we'll be right back.
That church, my friend's mom owns that one, so they go, I thought it was like, it's like, it's right there, she has a church, the system was done there, she has a church, yeah, that is,
Thank you.
Thank you.
I'm sorry you had a system.
No, that's fine.
Enjoy yourself at least.
I think so.
It's interesting here.
Enjoy yourself.
I'm watching court TV.
Yeah, yeah, well, I don't know about that.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Number 11, MI-2025-002-273-5751, North Broad Street.
Rachel Pritzker is the attorney
coming back in as a
panelist Mr. Chair
good evening
good evening
Rachel you've already been
could you
just state your name for the
record
Rachel Pritzker
could you identify
fire client? Yeah, it's Ampersand. Relationship to the property. Sorry, it's Ampersand Health
Management LLC, which is the tenant of the property. Okay. Do you waive the reading of
the referral and agree with its accuracy? Yes. Could you start your presentation? Sure.
Are you part of her? You're with Rachel. Okay. Rachel, just so you know, someone came up here
and took a seat up in the front yes that's miss d she is the regional director of the
waiting here all day i just want you to know that she's the best so okay good thank you miss d
i'll try to make this brief and efficient okay so 57 um 51 north broad street here is the referral
as mentioned the property zone cmx two and a half and we're asking for a special exception for use
of this existing space as group medical dental and health practitioner it's really medical and
health practitioner but they're all in the same use category um this will not cause congestion
in the public streets uh it will be operated by ampersand health management which is also known
as city life health uh they're a medicaid focused care delivery platform that addresses
gaps in care for medically underserved communities in urban settings
this board approved i think it was 12 sorry 14 22 or 14 20 i'm blanking on the exact address
sorry 1422 or 1420 I'm blanking on the exact address point breeze avenue several months ago
same operator for similar health care use and this is basically to provide services
in underserved neighborhoods where access to physical exams basic testing medical examinations
x-rays screening and health services would usually require someone to go to an emergency room
This will be urgent care and primary care as well, so just for medical needs that you
don't need to go all the way to emergency room, and then you can have also a level of
consistency and trust with your provider like many of us do.
So this is access for everyone, and again, they're Medicaid-focused, which helps from
a cost perspective.
So there are other uses on North Broad Street that are similar to this or similar commercial
So this will not add additional congestion or anything that would be more difficult or cause any kind of adequate supply of light or air or infringe upon the transportation or adequate sewer and water, as it is a special exception on North Broad Street with other similar uses.
tax clearance certificate this is um just the lease as mentioned this is um the tenants for
the space although i believe if he's still here we do have someone from ownership on
just in case there are any questions but they're obviously supportive of this very long lease
um here's the zoning map of the property so it's the corner it's an existing building which
I'll show you in a second that has other commercial uses.
They'll be taking up a little under 2,000 square feet
in this space and is already on North Broad Street,
which is a commercial corridor, zone CMX 2 1⁄2.
Just aerial photos.
This is a photo of the property.
This is the space right here
where you see the zoning posters.
The corner is H&R Block, and there are other uses.
As you can see, ground floor, it's small,
about 18 a little over 1800 square feet and again in a commercial area as mentioned there are
similarly situated businesses nearby and so this use will only add to the neighborhood and would
be in character with the other businesses that are there this is some of the internal
photos interior photos of the space just a vacant office space at the moment
It's just where we are in the zoning code.
As you can see, a group practitioner requires a special exception while some of the other
similar uses don't.
We met on Monday with the coordinating RCO and we have a letter of support.
We send out all the notices, and we have a letter of support from the RCO, which was
the new 42nd Ward RCO.
So just the floor plans, as mentioned, just a really small 1841 square foot space.
um and that's uh my presentation happy to answer any questions and um if misty could
um council could you tell me is there a suite or a number of where that location is inside
um it's a great question
is john peruto on the call still by any chance well wait a minute your person here is let me
let me swear her in okay could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
yes my name is edidma medina e-d-i-d-m-a last name m-e-d-i-n-a do you swear or affirm to tell
the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes counsel yeah i believe it's suite b
um sorry d have you heard my testimony do you believe it to be true and accurate and
do you adopt it as your own yes and am i correct that it's suite b would be the location of this
i cannot confirm that in most of my communications i did not see the suite number okay i believe
it's just been like 5751 north broad okay i uh i'm getting that it's sweepy from the
owner of the property um i don't know if he wants to be sworn in but that's what
I don't know if he wants to be sworn in, but that's what he just shared with me.
he just shared with me thank you
Thank you.
Questions from the board.
How many practitioners are going to be operating out of this location?
So currently, we usually operate two full time.
They do three 12-hour shifts because we are open Monday through Saturdays, 8 to 8.
and then how many um patients is the word i was looking for patients are you anticipating seeing
each day so um of course i went to the only um community collaborative last night so there was
a lot of positive feedback so we're estimating probably on opening maybe 10 to 15 and then
growing from there um so but you know it's one of those tricky things um the positive in that area
when i was looking at a lot of the revitalization was that the only transportation center is like
the second you know busiest in in all of pennsylvania so we assume traffic there um and
then just some of the the things that they're doing around i think will bring we do a lot of
community outreach also we're very community focused so the goal obviously is more patients
but it takes time to build that so initially 10 to 15 maybe 20. Okay and then how are you
anticipating that most patients are going to get to your location? So that's what a lot of
with the research that we've been doing the transportation center because that was my
biggest question um the revitalization project i walked through some of the parking with the young
lady uh they have done a lot of research because i did ask also with us opening a practice there
um and a lot of the information that they're still working on but she gave me was that certain parts
of the day i was more focused on our when we're open um and there wasn't there was opportunities
So it wasn't like bumper-to-bumper parking.
But then I am in communication with her because of what the restructuring in that area is looking like.
So right now we anticipate most of our patients will use public transportation.
But we are working with the only community collaborative as these changes are coming along to make sure we're making adjustments appropriately.
And then my last question is really about people that might have mobility issues for drop-off. Right now, it looks like there's just regular street parking on that street. Is there a plan to do a temporary drop-off?
I apologize, I don't remember her name, because this was late last night we were at the meeting, had spoken to me, yes, about possibly doing a loading space that she can work with us to incorporate that for that reason, for ambulances to come through and things like that.
But we just spoke last night, so I don't really have a lot of information on that.
And this is just primary care, not urgent care services?
You do both.
You do both.
And what are the hours of the urgent care?
8 to 8, Monday through Saturday.
So on our primary care days, we may have a secondary provider.
You're focused only on those patients.
The other provider is focused on the urgent care
because we don't want to have that long time, wait times.
We're trying to support the ERs and keep those low cases out
so they can concentrate on the high-risk cases.
And then are you doing lab on-site?
Yes, we do.
And then it's pharmacy on-site.
we do not we have a limited pharmacy we do not subscribe narcotics okay so um just like
tylenol over the counter you know so basic things otherwise the doctors will send to the pharmacy
okay any other questions questions or comments from our attorney
uh no chair questions or comments from the virtual audience or the current audience
no hands raised in a virtual audience planning commission hello madison matera planning commission
staff m-a-d-i-s-o-n-m-a-t-e-r-a do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth
nothing but the truth i do please proceed the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the
cmx 2.5 commercial mixed-use zoning at this location the appellant has shown that the
proposed group medical dental and health practitioner use will have no detrimental
impacts on the neighborhood beyond what might be expected therefore the city planning commission
recommends the board grant the requested use variance for group medical dental and health
practitioner and we wish to note to the board that the ninth councilman district initiated a request
this past spring to the city planning commission staff to remap this location to cmx3 commercial
mixed use that has been drafted and transmitted, but which has not yet been introduced.
That has been drafted and transmitted, but which has not yet been introduced.
CMX 3 allows group medical practitioner use by right.
Thank you very much.
MI 2025-002-273-5751 North Broad, I vote yes.
Proviso, unit B only.
Unit suite B only.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes, with Proviso.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with Proviso.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes with Proviso.
Taya Nguyen, my vote is yes with Proviso.
Thank you.
Thank you, counsel.
Thank you, ladies, and thanks for sitting there the whole time.
Have a breath.
We appreciate it.
All right.
Number 13, MI-2025-003-331-2716 South Street.
Eric Batson is the attorney.
I'll be coming back in as a panelist shortly, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the board.
Counsel, could you please state your name and spell for the sonographer?
Yes, of course.
My name is Eric Bodzin, B-O-D-Z-I-N, of blank Rome, on behalf of the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
do you waive the reading of the refusals and agree with their accuracy yes I do okay and I
would say there's a letter of support from south of south neighborhood a letter of abstention from
North Washington Avenue coalition and a letter of support from the council president Johnson
please proceed sir yes thank you Mr. Chair before we begin for efficiency may we also
swear in uh my co-presenters uh jennifer flanik and john roach
they're going to be presenting with you uh john design team will be presenting
and then jennifer will adopt and affirm my testimony okay thank you
john and jennifer can you raise your hands in the virtual audience
to my bacon as a pen of it shortly sir thank you
um hello hi john could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
uh john j-o-h-n roach r-o-a-c-h do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and
nothing but the truth i do and we're your other person is jennifer did i hear that yes yes thank
you mr chair uh jennifer flanick j-e-n-n-i-f-e-r flanick f as in frank l-a-y n as in nancy i-k
referring to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes all right why don't
we start, Eric. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair and members of the board. Thank you for your time this
afternoon. Application here is made on behalf of Children's Hospital of Philadelphia for the
property located at 2716 South Street. And I'm glad we swore John Roach in because it is in his
virtual background. The subject property consists of a large rectangular parcel
located on South Street and Schuylkill Avenue. To the rear of the site is the Schuylkill Expressway.
As you can see, the property is zoned CMX3 Commercial. It is one parcel and members of
board, as you can see here, it is improved by two multi-story structures. The existing
Roberts Building is on the left, and the new Morgan Building is on the right. The new Morgan
Building, which is the subject of today's variance, consists of a 21-story structure,
approximately 350 feet in height. Here are additional photographs from the street.
And from the side, when these photos were taken, the Morgan building was under construction.
It is now much more complete, as you will see in the pictures and the renderings that follow and that are behind John on the screen.
Both buildings are used by the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia for academic and research purposes.
The property is served with approximately 400 parking spaces and 277 bicycle spaces.
The property is extensively landscaped and contains a number of public pathways connecting the campus with the surrounding neighborhood.
connecting the campus with the surrounding neighborhood.
The application before the board is to allow the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia to
place additional signage on the property, consisting of two wall signs for the new Morgan
building, one window sign for the new building's retail space, and seven freestanding directional
signs for wayfounding around the expanded campus.
As John will depict in a moment, these 10 total signs will match the signs at the existing Roberts Building and Campus.
As you can see on this summary site plan of the proposed signage at the property, which is detailed for the board's convenience in Exhibit 6 of your packets,
In green are the existing signs which total 3,538 square feet. In red are the new proposed signs
which total 2,035 square feet for a combined total of 5,575 square feet. At this time,
Mr. Chair, members of the board, I would like to introduce John Roach of Canon Design to briefly
provide more detail about the proposed signage and then answer any additional questions you may
have this afternoon. Great. Thanks, Eric. This is a good place to start if we can pause on this
slide for a moment. John, just before you begin, can you state your name, title, and your role
with regard to this application for signage?
Yes, John Roach.
I am with Canon Design.
I am an engineering leader
and project manager for this project.
Thank you, John.
And can you please walk the board
through plans for the proposed signage
and just let me know
when you'd like me to proceed
with the next slide.
So like I said,
I think this is a good place to start.
And I'd like to call your attention
to the building on the right, the Morgan Center, you'll note that there's two red arcs drawn on
what is the, to the left is north and upward is to the west. So those two red arcs correspond to
the elevations that we're going to be adding building signage to. Also like to point out in
the upper right, there's something labeled the Schuylkill Green Detail. This particular element
of the campus will connect South Street to Schuylkill Avenue, providing a full loop around
the CHOP buildings for better connectivity with the Schuylkill River Trail. So people coming off
the SRT no longer need to go to the intersection of South and 27th. They can go through the site.
That will be encouraged. It's a fully accessible area. And because we're going to have that through
traffic, that pedestrian traffic, that accounts for the number of small sight signs and wayfinding
signs that are shown there. We'll also talk through the retail signage in a moment. So if we can go to
the next slide. This is one of the two building signs that I pointed out previously. You'll note
that this is roughly at the fifth floor of the building. It aligns almost exactly with
the existing sign on the Roberts building next door. So this elevation faces the South Street
Plaza. This is what you see coming across the South Street Bridge from University City.
It is designed to complement the building next door and most importantly recognize the generosity
of the Morgan family, who about a year ago now, you might recall, contributed about $50 million
for the construction of this building. If we go to the next slide, we can take a look at
the opposite face. This faces down South Street. So this is what you will see as you approach
University City from the east going towards the South Street Bridge. This sign will be much higher
They're up in the building correspondingly below the roof as the Roberts sign is on that building.
Our building is a little bit shorter, but it's about proportionally the same distance down from the roof line.
Both signs are backlit aluminum metal set off from the curtain wall for drainage.
They are like a plastic translucent letter.
but as much as I describe it
you can go out there and look at any given day
and see the Roberts Center sign
and this is essentially a duplicate of that
just for the Morgan Center
for the morgan center they will be uh led backlit so we will have full ability to control brightness
they will be LED backlit
so we will have
and make sure that we're not causing any glare issues notably this one that faces toward uh
or i guess away from university city um the neighborhood is in this area but it's high
enough in the building and again with that dimmability control we don't anticipate this
being something that will be readily visible or glaring for many adjacent residences.
And on the lower right is one example of the retail signage.
The corner of the building, we actually carved back the tower from the existing podium that was there before
that had been an unsuccessfully leased retail space, shelf space, if you will.
The new retail space is much more prominent.
It'll have a roof terrace.
And so while a particular tenant has not been identified, we wanted to get approval to be able to locate signage that will be visible to the pedestrian traffic that's going through the site.
We anticipate something fairly small in keeping with CHOP standards, likely something just as a graphic on the glass, whether it's vinyl or something else adhered to the front or back side.
This gives you an idea of what we're talking about.
Let me go to the next one.
so here's uh an updated version of the rendering that's right behind me uh this is uh the only
differences this has the signs and as i mentioned earlier you can see the two signs relative to one
another same font same construction same sign company actually uh just uh different names on
the buildings so complementary and if we go to the next slide uh you saw this previously but
just to kind of call your attention to where the other sign is going, it would be the concave
surface to the right, the one facing the AT&T building that fronts the SRT that I'm sure
everyone knows and loves. We go to the next slide. Talk a little bit about site signage.
Again, it's in keeping with everything that's already on site. So we are adding some new
pylons like the one shown to the left, mostly new post-mounted signs, five of them that's in the
middle there. And again, if you want to see examples of those two, there are plenty out
on the Roberts property right now. They'll be identical. And then a new pylon sign similar in
scale to the parking entrance sign that exists at the garage entrance on South Street. And this
have that same retail logo with just directional wayfinding so we can direct people through the
pathways up to the main entrance from the lower level because the site is on a fairly significant
slope. Go on to the next one. Just a couple of slides here. They're essentially going to be the
same but just for the purpose of completeness. It shows the dimension of the letters, the kerning,
the spacing, and the sign that faces South Street. Again, very, very similar square footage
and sizing. It is the same font as Roberts. And if we go to the next slide, this is the same thing,
but again, just for completeness to show that sign on this side of the building. Also, this
rendering shows what I was alluding to from that construction photo a moment before, the sign
facing South Street towards that AT&T building high up in the structure. And you can see the
retail at the lower right. So, and again, just bringing it back to that South Street rendering.
So, I think that concludes this presentation. Is there one more slide?
That's it.
That's it. Okay. So, thanks for your attention.
thank thank you so much john and please stand by in case uh the board has any additional
questions we appreciate your time this afternoon uh members of the board uh this
excuse me for interrupting this is a board council ryan mcsharey just wanted to let the
board know that hillary emerson has returned she's logged in and will be taking over as
board council for the remainder of the day thank you thank you ryan for coming today we appreciate
I would please proceed with your next witness.
Absolutely. No further witnesses, Mr. Chair, if I may just briefly conclude my testimony. Members of the board, at this time, we submit that, as you've heard from John this afternoon,
June, the proposed signage constitutes the minimum required in order to afford reasonable visual identification of the Children's Hospital Philadelphia's site and facilities in light of the property's large size, configuration, and location.
In light of the property's large size, configuration, and location, the signage is intended to facilitate the public's movement throughout the campus with connectivity among the public plaza areas and trails that John mentioned.
The signage has been designed specifically to prevent glare and light spillage to surrounding
properties. As you heard John detail, there has been extensive community review, and we are
thankful to Council President Johnson and the coordinating RCO SOSNA for their letters of
support included in the exhibit package. And again, as John detailed, the signage here is
virtually identical to that which was previously approved and currently exists on campus,
that being for the Roberts Center. Mr. Chair, this concludes my testimony. Jennifer Flanick
is here to adopt and affirm my testimony. Jennifer, could you please state your name?
Oh, I think I already swore you in. Am I correct? You did. Just state your name for the record and
Eric will start. Sure. Jennifer Flanick. Good afternoon, Jennifer. How are you this afternoon?
Good. Are you affiliated with the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and familiar with
the project we're presenting here today? Yes, I am. And have you heard the entirety of the
testimony that I have provided this afternoon? Yes, I have. Was it true and accurate to the
best of your knowledge? Yes. And would you adopt the testimony that I have given as your own?
Yes. Thank you so much, Ms. Klinick. Questions from the board?
I don't know whether the building came to CDR when I was chair, so I'm not sure whether I need to recuse myself.
Oh, okay, Michael.
I guess.
You can do it.
Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Comments from the virtual audience?
I don't see any hands, Mr. Chair.
Planning Commission.
madison matera planning commission staff the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the
existing cmx3 commercial mixed-use zoning at this location the proposed signs are for internal
circulation within the chop hospital campus and are necessary for wayfinding therefore the city
planning commission recommends the board grant the requested variances for number of freestanding
signs directional sign area and total sign area on building frontage but deny the requested
variance for maximum sign height. Thank you. So MI 2025. Mr. Chair. Oh, I'm sorry. If I may,
before the vote, I'm glad Ms. Emerson just joined the room. We had a brief discussion before the
hearing just to confirm that this vote is on the amended refusal dated May the 5th. I just wanted
TO CONFIRM.
MI-2025-003-331-2716 SOUTH STREET, I VOTE YES WITH PROVISO, HER AMENDED REFUSAL DATED
5-5-25.
Michael Johns, I recuse myself.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes, with proviso.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes, with proviso.
Taya Nguyen, my vote is yes, with proviso. Thank you, counsel.
Thank you all for your time, Ms. Ashworth. Is there anyone in the verse 1s whose 2pm
case has not been called? No hands, Mr. Chair.
Okay, thank you. We're going to move right on to the
3 30 list good afternoon everyone my name is bill bergman and i will be chairing this meeting of the
philadelphia zoning board with me is our board member cheryl l gaston present mr chairman our
board member tenetta graham present mr chairman board member michael johns mr chairman board
member taiwan present mr chairman our attorney hillary emerson our board director ian haggerty
and our board administrator to lakeisha dandy recording of this hearing will be posted on
the zba website by participating you consent to be recorded recording of this hearing will be
posted i'm sorry this is an in-person meeting with remote capabilities whether remote or in person
if you're called to speak you must state and spell your name and then wait to be sworn in
once you've been sworn in please state your name each time before beginning your testimony
any person may enter an appearance as an interested party you can and there are three ways you can
identify the case property address on your zoom webinar you can see a staff member or you can
call the zba appearance line by the close of business tomorrow call 267-270-5548 leave a
leave a message that includes your email address and the address of the property of the appeal case
message that includes your email address and the address of the property of the appeal case
the following guidance is for our remote attendees first when directed by you must raise your virtual
hand in order to be recognized to speak second if you're called to testify you'll be prompted
to join as a panelist please accept the request and turn on your camera third the webinar q a
is for questions about the hearing do not comment on cases in the q a fourth if you're participating
by phone press star nine to raise your hand and star six to unmute for our in-person attendees
let's look at our schedule for this afternoon
number two mi 2024 002 704 225 west seymour that case has been continued
until 2-11-26 at 3.30 p.m.
And number three, MI 2024-002-714-227 West Seymour Street.
That case is also being continued to 2-11-26.
We're going to go to our first case, MI 2024-002-432-739 Tyson.
Darlene Treat is the attorney.
there's a letter of opposition opposition from the coordinating artist rco take back your
neighborhood we'll be coming back into the panel shortly mr chair thank you very much
good morning commissioners darling feet on behalf of the applicant
hi could you spell your name please for their d-r-l-e-n-e last name three t as in thomas h-r-e-a-t-t
right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
yes i do could you identify your client and the relationship to this property my client is on the
owner uh augustine del orb right um do you um waive the reading of the refusal and agree
with its accuracy yes why don't you start your presentation thank you
can you see my screen I think you have to open it up a little bit pulled over
Darlene.
Darlene, you got to open it up. It's, it's too small.
That's more. Yeah. Um, just give me a second.
Miss three. Can you expand that window? I think that's the issue. It's not the document. It's
the window, the square box in the upper right. There you go. Thank you. Thank you, Hillary.
Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm here representing the owners of 739 Tyson Street. I've submitted a packet of information which concerns the permit application, the refusal, the appeal, the property information sheet, the Philadelphia general property information, the deed, tax information, plans, pictures, community letter, proof of mailing.
I also added the letter of non-support and email, which I'll address at another time.
Commissioners, my clients actually received a violation for building a deck without a permit.
They contacted me to file an application to legalize the deck and enclosing the garage.
I actually did file the application, although there's a glitch somehow with L&I.
They keep mixing my name up with another client of mine, Joseph Mulvey Hills.
I've tried to correct it a couple times, but still keeps coming out the same.
So this is the actual refusal, and you'll see on the refusal, we weren't really actually refused for the deck.
we weren't really actually refused for the deck there's no language for the deck refusal we're
There's no language for the deck refusal.
really refused for enclosing the garage area commissioner i filed the appeal and i'm just
going to refer to one thing in the appeal here basically the applicants wanted to enjoy their
property more uh so they built a they did hire a contractor who incorrectly told them they didn't
need a permit they built the deck and they enclosed the garage and basically they were just seeking to
enhance the use and enjoyment of their property uh commissioners i'm just going to go down to
the property information here and i just want to show you a couple things about the property
which might give you a pause as to why they thought they needed more space.
I'm just going to enlarge that a little bit more.
So here's the property information sheet.
You can see this is a fairly large property, but the livable area is only 1404,
and it's only really a two-story property.
Also, you'll see that it was a partially finished basement.
Basically, the owners wanted to have the use of the deck and they wanted to close the garage area so they can use it for additional household living.
This is the deed to the property.
Okay, what happened there?
Thank you.
uh commissioners it seems as though uh there are a couple blank pages i don't know
if my bandwidth isn't good but i do see that there we did could see some photos of the place
i'll show you some photos but i had some plans that i wanted to show you of the property they
look like they blacked out here i'll go to the photos
so this is the front of the property you'll see is a two-story uh walk up
uh it has a long uh walkway to get up to the front of the property that's a picture of the
posting that's another picture of the front of the property and this is the rear of the property
My clients built a deck here, and they enclosed the garage.
You can see by the neighbor's garage area how the garage stood, and they have a door on the side.
This door was existing already, and basically they enclosed the garage area and built a deck.
The refusal is for taking away the accessory parking.
My clients did advise me that they do not park under this deck here, that they do park on this street.
So I don't want to propose that we still have a parking on the lot because they don't use it.
This is across the street.
All the houses pretty much look the same.
That's a long view of the block.
This is another picture of how the deck looks.
and then i just took some other pictures of neighbors on their block who also have built
decks on the back of the property and some of them have also enclosed the garage area
for additional living space it's another deck another deck another deck another deck
here's the letter that we noticed for the meeting we did meet with the community organization on
september 5th probably five people from the community came and i believe four or three of
them were for the actually the actual committee i did send out 101 notices and i did get a
certificate of mailing that i provided to the organization
um the last scheduled hearing was supposed to be
on uh february the 13th and i received an email from miss emerson i believe on
13th, and I received an email from Ms. Emerson, I believe, on the 12th, indicating that the
the 12th
councilperson had written requesting a continuance and that there was a lot of non-support from
the community organization, which I was not aware of. I didn't have any objection to continuing
the hearing to meet with the community again. Commissioners, I wrote the community. I tried
to meet with them uh several times um after the hearing um to no avail i will show you the
correspondence that i sent them this is just an updated uh tax um clearance
but uh this is the correspondence that i wrote mr rudensky after that hearing that i've reached
out to their organization several times since our meeting in september i did talk to miss
Barnacky, she would call me back, but I could never get Mr. Rudinsky. I said it was my
understanding, and this was from reading the letter that I wasn't provided with, that he had concerns.
I'm just going to reshare.
It looked like it kicked me off.
are we trying to get back in darlene yeah i'm trying to get back in
you're back on the screen yep very good thank you um i uh sent him a letter and indicated that um
i would agree to uh to provide those to address his concerns and one was that we would get a
building permit after the zoning is approved and that would address his safety concerns
concerning the construction of the deck, and then he had a concern that the basement might be used
for a rental. Commissioners, my client can speak to this. They don't plan to rent the basement out.
If they wanted to have a second apartment, I certainly would have applied for a duplex. That's
not their intention. Basically, it was a partial basement with a bathroom and a room, a family room.
They wanted more use for the household, and they just enclosed the garage. They put a kitchen
area down there they did and they use it they watch tv they entertain down there and they don't
have to run up and downstairs to the kitchen they have a place there where they can warm up food and
they have a refrigerator down there also and basically that's my presentation and i'm here
to answer any questions and i can put my client on the line to take questions also why don't you
bring your client on. I'm sorry, Commission, I couldn't hear you. Bring your client on, please.
Mr. Dell Orbe, can you raise your hand, please?
Okay, he should be coming back in as a pandemic shortly, Council.
Hi, could you please state your name?
Good afternoon, Ms. Adele Orbe
Can you state your name for the record, please?
Wilmer Delorbe
W-I-L-M-E-R-T
D-E-L-O-R-B-E
Ms. Adele Orbe, have you heard the testimony
as presented to the
Darlene, wait one minute, okay
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth
the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes, sir. Alright, please proceed, counsel
Ms. Adele
Well, Orb, have you heard the testimony as I presented it to the board today?
Yes, ma'am.
And Mr. Orb, if I were to get you to testify, could you testify that the testimony I gave today was true and correct?
Yes, ma'am.
And would you adopt that testimony?
Yes, ma'am.
That's all I have.
If there are any questions of the board.
Questions from the board.
You have photos of the inside?
Unfortunately, I don't have the photos of the inside, and I noticed that today when I've submitted my presentation, but I'd be more than happy to provide the board within the next two days of inside photos.
I couldn't open them on my machine today.
I couldn't open them on my machine today.
And also, how many, how.
And also, how many houses around that property have enclosed their garages?
Well, I've only seen, saw three enclosed garages, but I saw about six decks in the rear.
How many properties have both?
And counting out was three.
Okay. And is there an interior layout at all of what was done with the enclosed garage?
Actually, my plans were just the exterior deck and rendering and a site plan and a rendering of the house.
I did not have a layout of the first floor of the property.
If you require that, I'd be happy to provide it also.
i think we're not the basement because you're because the the issue is that enclosing the
garage right so yes it is right so the basement is being used as family room so but so we'd like
to see some photos and a layout of you know have they have they kept the garage and just put a
doorway into the garage no no no the uh the garage was uh taken out and it is used as families as
family space there there's no parking there no no no so so the two walls that that comprise the
garage the two interior walls that comprise the garage they were taken out and it's all one big
space downstairs or is that still a separate space but on the inside it's a separate space
on the inside okay but i will provide you with the layout it's required yeah and were the two
doors existing, or did they add another door in the rear? Only one door was existing. There was
added another door in the rear. And the intent was not to try to go for multifamily? No, it's not.
Additional door was added. Commissioners, I would have applied for a multifamily. I believe this is
a RSA 3. It's a pretty big lot. I don't think applying for a duplex would have been any more
difficult than applying for the enclosure. And I can have my family test, excuse me, my client
testify to the use. And again, we are willing to have a proviso, no apartment use, no basement
rental, because that's not our intention. Was the bathroom added to the interior addition?
No, the bathroom was pre-existing. There was a bathroom in the garage?
No, the bathroom's not in the garage.
The bathroom is in the front of the property when you would come down the stairs from the kitchen.
Okay, and the deck is also existing?
The deck is currently existing.
Okay, so when the deck was built, what is the foundation for the deck?
it's just a uh wood um found i mean it's not a it's a cement foundation and with wood posters
okay and so it was and it will because it was since it was done without permit so i'm saying
like they they didn't pull poor footings they didn't dig and pour new footings no and commissioners
One of the patrons who came to the meeting happened to be an L&I inspector, and he was concerned with the construction of the deck, which is why I offered as a proviso to apply for the building permit so we could come out and have the deck inspected.
Darlene, did you put a gas range? Is there a gas range in the basement?
I believe it's electric, but there is a range in the basement.
Is there a whole kitchenette or just a...
It's a kitchenette.
Kitchenette.
Do you happen to know why your client undertook so much construction without seeking approvals?
According to my client, and he can testify to this, he did hire a contractor.
We did look into going after the contractor.
They don't exist anymore.
And he was advised that he didn't need a permit.
I think we need to see pictures and we need to see the layout if we could so that we can better
make a decision about this. Questions from our attorney? I just want to know there's some
documents related to the property and this email thread that weren't included with the packet the
last packet that was submitted to the board so I mean if we're gonna accept
updated exhibits or additional information anyway I would like to
request a resubmission of the packet that was presented to the board today
because it has additional documents. I will resubmit. Questions or comments from the
I will resubmit.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Thank you.
No hands, Mr. Chair.
Planning Commission.
Madison Matera, Planning Commission staff.
The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing RSA 3 residential single-family zoning at this location.
The proposed elimination of the accessory off-street parking is a common condition on this block face.
On-Street Parking and Rear Alley Parking are both abundant here.
The City Planning Commission recommends that the board grant the proposed variance for eliminating an accessory off-street parking case.
So, Hillary, I'm going to close the case.
Everything's done until we receive photos, hopefully within the next few days.
And after we review that next Wednesday, we will vote at 2 p.m. on the case.
That's fine.
And just to clarify, interior photos, interior layout, and then resubmission of the exhibit packet with all of those supplemental exhibits.
Yes. Commissioner, if I may, I'm going to need a little bit more time to get the interior plan layout.
Two weeks.
All right. Thank you very much.
Two weeks on Wednesday at 2 p.m.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
Number four, MI 2024-003-143-2838 Cancell Street.
Gabriel Fellis is the attorney.
Recommendation of support from the Tasker Morris Neighborhood Association.
Coming back in as a panelist, Mr. Chair.
Morning, Mr. Chair.
Hi, counsel. Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
gabriel fellas g-a-b-r-i-e-l last name is fellas f as in frank e-l-l-u-s do you swear or affirm to
tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do did you identify your client in
relationship to this property our client is albert busereth he's the property owner
do you waive the reading of the refusal do you agree with its accuracy
i do why don't you start your presentation
can you guys see the table of contents we can great uh thank you chair so mr busereth is here
today seeking approval to build a one-story addition with a roof deck uh the existing
property at 2830 uh control street uh he received a refusal on april 15th uh 2024 because the
proposed minimum roof deck setback requirement and second story front setback requirement do not
meet the code requirements. The property is zoned RM1 and requires a five-foot roof deck setback
and eight-foot second story setback pursuant to the Philadelphia Code.
This right here. First up, we have our deed to the property showing the applicant obtained title
in April of 2022.
And so here we have our site plans for the projects submitted with our application.
Just for reference, the property is currently vacant in near shell condition.
So with regards to the basement, the first and second story, the extent of the work will
be mainly interior renovations, so I wanted to focus on the proposed third story addition
and roof deck that is the subject of the refusals.
So, as a refusal noted, the proposed third story and roof deck does not provide for a
setback from the front of the property.
Both are 28 feet in length, which make up the entire length of the existing structured
property line.
Again, these plans provide detailed floor plans, building plans for renovating the entire
property uh not just the third uh the third story and roof deck at issue so i won't spend too much
time on all the the plans we have but we'll be happy to answer any questions that you guys might
have about the plans in their entirety so here we have our section plans with the third story
roof jack shown here. Here we have our electric plants. These are the applicable plumbing
plans, and waste plans.
So here we have some interior photos of the property in its current condition.
As I mentioned, the property is basically in shell condition right now.
This is the first floor, this is the rear wall of the property.
This is the third floor, the front facade, and then the unfinished basement.
this is the third four
So here we have some photos showing the street view from Cantrell Street, as well as our
zoning maps. Again, the property is zoned RM1 on a block comprised almost entirely of RM1
properties. The variance sought would not be out of character with the rest of the residential block
as Mr. Bucereth plans to use the property and the proposed third story addition with the roof deck
as his family's primary residence. Just for context, Mr. Bucereth's decision to draft these
plans without the required setbacks is really just to maximize the space for his young family.
He plans to use the additional story for an extra bedroom for his children, which would then allow him to remain in the property for longer as his children grow up, as opposed to having to move when the family inevitably outgrows the current two-story structure.
So here's our application for appeal that was filed by Ms. Abusereth in 2024.
And our project information form as well.
gabriel is anyone else on the block for the third floor on i'm not on the immediate block no
uh but this is the community notice letter that mr buchanan sent out to his nearby neighbors
in advance of the february 11th rco meeting with the grills ferry uh community council
So, unfortunately, he didn't, as a per se applicant, he didn't realize that he had to provide formal certificates of mailing for the letters.
He did provide a receipt from the post office when he's mailing those letters.
For reference, I did reach out to Mrs. Emerson, Ms. Dandy, in June about the issue.
A copy of the RCO chair, Mr. Charles Reeves, on that email.
He was able to confirm that Mr. Buceret did mail out those letters to nearby neighbors.
and he did present to the members of the community at the February 11th meeting
where he received this letter of support from them. If you have any questions about the
certificates of mailing, I'll be happy to answer those. So just to finish up,
I'm sorry? I'm sorry. Just to finish up here, here is our statement of real estate tax compliance
and our ZBA posters notifying the community of today's hearing.
So with that, I would just like to bring my client, Mr. Albert Bucerith,
on to adopt my testimony and answer any questions.
It should be back, and as a panel, it's shortly canceled.
albert yes uh yes sir albert could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
My name is Albert Bussereff, A-L-B-E-R-T-B-U-I-S-S-E-R-E-T-H.
You swear we're affirmed to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Please proceed, counsel.
Albert, have you heard of my testimony today?
Yes, sir.
And was it true and correct to the best of your knowledge?
And would you adopt it as if it were your own?
Great.
Any questions?
I would be happy to answer them.
Questions from the board.
Can you blow this up a little bit more so that I can actually see the…
Does that work better for you?
Great.
And then…
All right.
Other questions?
How high is the parapet
above the third floor?
Get to our section plans really quick.
So what's your total height?
We're going to
right here.
Eight plus four
which is going to be 12 feet.
Right.
What was the justification for not having any setback?
what was the
justification between uh for not having any setback
I think it was mostly just to maximize the space.
I know Mr. Bouchereth said he didn't really like the design style of having a setback.
He had seen some other properties, not on the immediate block, but in the integrated area that had the same design style, and he wanted to go with that one.
and he can speak to that as well i'm sorry to to speak for you mr b shrift and then how close is
the closest building that he took his design reference from i am not entirely sure mr b
shrift uh yeah i could i could tell you um i was walking in i was walking the area so i would say
about uh two blocks um i don't know if that would be north or but two blocks away um i submitted a
picture to my attorney a few moments ago of the actual home um that i saw it's within walking
distance of my um of my home i don't know gabe if you want to um show present that um image to
them yes i do this picture but i'm not entirely sure um what the address i just see 28 18 elbert
so i'm not really sure exactly yeah yeah i'm sorry yeah i wish i would have i would it's um
I promise you, it's in walking distance of my home because I was just walking the neighborhood when I had first moved in the area.
And then I took a picture of it because I was like, this is what I wanted to do to my property.
And I took a picture of it.
And how recently did you move into the area?
Oh, well, I've had this house since 20, I think I bought it 2022.
I lived in a home for a moment and then I decided that I wanted to, you know, it just wasn't something that suited my family at the time.
So I decided to, I applied for a permit, easy permit to like remove like some non-low bearing walls.
And then I came up with the idea of, as I was looking around the area, that I wanted to expand and do this type of project to the home.
And that's when I went and sought an architect and started that process.
At the RCO meeting, were there members from the block, residents from the block, in particular, the residents that are near neighbors or have any adjacency to your property that would agree with this?
So, to be honest with you, most of the people on my block are renters.
um the my um to the right of me um is my neighbor um i know him well um and um he i shared with him
my thoughts and i showed him the plans and he told me that he didn't have a problem with it
um and then and then pretty much um most like i said most of the people that do live in the
in the area and on my block uh they're all they're all renting there's actually no the actual home
owners don't live in the homes.
Other questions on the board?
I think they probably need to have
your drawings looked at. Again, there's
no way you can have a six inch floor
in each one of your floors. I'm looking at your section. Each one of your floors shows
six inches for the floor depth. So that
absolutely wouldn't stand up so that can't be right so i think your overall height then
is incorrect um so these plans are are flawed i think it's gonna have to go up at least
another foot and a half exactly because your your floor to floor your your floor
depth of your floor is going to be at least 12 inches you know which would also put this above
the 28 feet that it would be
if it was by right. I don't know. This is a really
tall. 30? 38.
38? 38. Okay. It's got to go to
38. Yeah.
So I think the height that you're saying
is just wrong. So I mean
it still may be below the 38 I believe.
Right. Even add that.
What's your
basement height
that you're showing on the plan?
So your 8 foot basement
it okay and it's and it's it's kind of like just family room space kind of thing okay all right
questions for attorney hillary emerson not at this time mr chair questions or comments from
the virtual audience do not see any hands mr chair planning commission madison matera planning
commission staff the comprehensive plan recommends a change in zoning at this location from rm1
residential multifamily to rsa5 residential single family there is no unique physical
There is no unique physical condition or circumstance of this property that would prevent it from being used in strict conformity with the zoning code.
condition or circumstance of this property that would prevent it from being used
The City Planning Commission recommends that the board deny their opposed variance for front setback.
Counsel, what I'm going to do with this, I'm going to talk to the other board members next Wednesday morning, and I'm going to vote on this at 2 o'clock.
Counsel?
That sounds good to me. Thank you so much.
Gabriel, did you hear what I said?
I did, yes.
Okay, thank you very much, and thank you for your presentation.
Yeah, I question, hold on for a second, I question, these plans are sealed by licensed, it's got a licensed architect sealed, that's concerning.
Or is that an inch, I mean, whoever it is, it's a licensed seal, they're showing six-inch floors, that's just bad.
All right. So would you maybe be open to, if that is going to be the issue, about maybe continuing for a couple of weeks to allow Mr. Ducerath to maybe prepare new site plans and to submit those to you guys to review prior to our next hearing, prior to the vote?
Hillary?
i i personally i don't care i'm just you know saying that this is bad that a licensed person
drew plans with a six inch floor
it is up to the board we can keep the record open for updated plans addressing the concerns of the
board then close it otherwise well I don't think that's what I don't think I'll defer to the chair
however you want to handle it so Hillary why don't we do this it's closed and he could send
us additional plans and then we'll vote on in two weeks sounds good all right so you hear what I
said Gabriel you have to have whatever you have send back in two weeks we're not going to have
a resumptive hearing, the board will look at it
and use that as part of our
decision on where we stand with the case.
And we'll do that Wednesday, two
weeks, okay? You guys will be
voting at 2 p.m. on August 13th.
2 p.m., yep. August 13th.
Right, and so I'd have that in there
at least, you know, you've got a week or so to get
this done. Great. Thank you so much.
I appreciate that. Is there anyone in the audience
whose case has not been called?
The answer is the chair.
Okay, thank you.
uh thanks everybody thank you guys thank you i don't understand like what what you didn't see