COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania April 25, 2000 10:15 a.m. - - - BILL 000025 - Amending Title 4 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction Occupancy Code," by amending subcode PM Philadelphia, the Philadelphia Property Maintenance Code, by amending Section PM 307, entitled "Unsafe and Unfit Structures and Equipment," and Section PM 308, entitled "Imminently Dangerous Structures," by providing for the installation of a fence or other protective devices and other related measures after demolition of the structure, under certain terms and conditions. BILL 000061 - Amending Title 10 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Regulation of Individual Conduct and Activity," requiring the retention of video surveillance tapes in commercial businesses for 30 days after use of those tapes, and regulating the quality of those tapes (Bills 000102, 000103, 000104 held at request of sponsor.) PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO, Chair COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE, Vice Chair COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL WILLIAMS BROWN COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 /00 L&I COMMITTEE I N D E X Bill 000025 Blaine Bonham, Executive Vice President. . . . Pennsylvania Horticultural Society Sister Mary Scullion, Executive Director . . . 20 Project H.O.M.E. Helen Brown, Project H.O.M.E. . . . . . . . . 21 Chris Whaley, Project H.O.M.E. . . . . . . . . 21 Marta A. Brooks, Esquire, Coordinator. . . . . 28 Homeowners Assistance Project, Senior Citizen Judicare Project Gray Smith, Urban Planner. . . . . . . . . . . 28 Community Representatives James Grant. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 Ruth Bazemore. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 Sharon Ball. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 Grace Haywood. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 Elizabeth Parker . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 62 Madeline Dunn. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74 Jean Trice . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76 Carly Johnson. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 78 Ethel Jenkins. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79 Wayne Porter, Parkside Association . . . . . . 81 Janice Fields. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 87 Inez Parker. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 108 Department of Licenses and Inspections Robert Solvibile, First Deputy Commissioner. . 91 Otis Haigler, Legislative Regulatory Affairs 91 Manager Richard Felgus, Administrative Services Dir. 92 3 /00 L&I COMMITTEE (Index, cont'd.) Attached Written Testimony in Support of 000025: Gloria Guard, Executive Director, People's Emergency Center John Quillen, 1237 North Redfield Street Vicky Franks, 1719 North 54th Street Elizabeth Griffin, 1712 North Ruby Street Doris Hinton, 1451 North 57th Street Helen Leel, 1200 Block, North St. Bernard Street Adeline Dorsey, 5629 Berks Street Elizabeth Wright, 1711 North 54th Street Eileen O. Burke, 426 North 60th Street Moses Cook, 1455 North 57th Street Rev. & Mrs. William E. Taylor, 1667 N. Wilton St. Janice Brown, 1674 North Wilton Street Pricilla Davis, 1668 North Wilton Street Bill 0000061 Fernando Gallard, Acting Director. . . . . . 111 Mayor's Business Action Team 4 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 P R O C E E D I N G S
Hello. We would like to bring this public meeting of the Committee on Licenses and Inspections to order -- now that Councilman Rizzo finally showed up. That's R-I-Z-Z-O, Rizzo. Oh, sorry, sorry, Frank. When you say "Rizzo," I just get crazy, I'm sorry. Okay, the first bill will be Bill No. 10 000025. Do you want to read the -- Mr. Allen, read that bill, please.
An ordinance amending Title 4 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction Occupancy Code," by amending subcode PM Philadelphia, the Philadelphia Property Maintenance Code, by amending Section PM 307, entitled "Unsafe and Unfit Structures and Equipment," and Section PM 308, entitled "Imminently Dangerous Structures," by providing for the installation of a fence or other protective devices and other related measures after demolition of the structure, under certain terms and conditions.
How come the L&I guys are up here, we didn't call you yet. I want 5 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Otis -- I want Blaine Bonham, the Executive Vice President of the Philadelphia Horticultural Society. See, you guys are getting paid, sit there and enjoy it. And let the people that here come up 'cause they're good citizens like us. Solvibile loves me. Now he's looking to not clean and seal five houses for every bad word I said in my district. (Laughter.) (Witnesses come forward.)
I'm Blaine Bonham, Executive Director of the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society and Head of the Philadelphia Green Program. Good morning, Councilman Mariano and members of the L&I Committee. I want to commend Councilman Nutter and the 13 other Councilmembers who have endorsed this proposed bill for raising the critical issue of the problem of vacant land that plagues City, from West Philadelphia to North 6 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 to South Philadelphia now and in some of the bordering neighborhoods, even Oak Lane, Southwest Philadelphia, Cobbs Creek. I think the core issue that this proposed bill tries to address is the lack of a comprehensive overall City policy and set of strategies for the maintenance and management of vacant lots and their precursors, abandoned buildings. As you know, for the last years, 11 through Philadelphia Green, we've been working 12 first with block groups and then with 13 neighborhoods organizations and an increasing the 14 number of community development organizations to 15 help them deal with the terrible blight that 16 vacant lands and derelict buildings have on 17 neighborhoods. 18 We've just completed a study, which I 19 believe all of you have a copy, and it was funded 20 by the William Penn Foundation, and it looks at a 21 maintenance management approach to the 30,900 22 vacant lots and the soon-to-be 24,000 long-term 23 vacant structures that will become vacant lots. 24 The issue, I know we're all very aware 25 of it. They drain the City's budget by lowering 7 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 the surrounding property values and averting scarce City resources for cleaning that is ineffective over the long run. The lots are seen as an obstacle to the City's progress. And they also -- as pressure mounts to contain suburban sprawl, by redirecting development inward, addressing vacant lots really sets a tone for the City for its future development in coming decades. Right now, as you know, there are 11 separate departments that address vacant land 12 issues, but there's no one coordinating entity 13 responsible, nor a coordinating policy that brings 14 this all together. 15 To date, in the last several decades, the City's current approach to vacant land is reactive, as we know. When that problem call comes in, L&I needs to respond to it intermittent because there's no policy to go back and clean lots, or they have to be cleaned because the problem reoccurs. And, of course, it's fragmented among several different departments. This isn't for a lack of will by the L&I department; it really is a systemic problem with the City administration and because no new systems have 8 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 been developed to deal with it in a comprehensive manner. The set of recommendations that we put forth are based on four assumptions: The City must deal with vacant lots in a comprehensive manner by cleaning, maintaining, and acquiring all vacant lots. And, in addition, the City's responsibility to ensure the public health, safety and welfare means that for practical purposes, it already owns the problem. And so, therefore, the City really needs to own the lots and take care of them to ensure the future of the neighborhoods. Secondly, the process by which the City acquires vacant lots and disburses them to private owners is so complex and fragmented as to hinder development. And to be effective, the process needs to be simplified. Thirdly, since the City does not have enough money to redevelop all of the lots, the private market must be allowed to acquire and reuse land whenever possible, while City resources are safe for strategic interventions. So we really need to make it easy for the private 9 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 sector. And, fourth, just as unmanaged vacant land lowers the property values and tax receipts, cleaning and maintaining the land will stabilize and raise property values and, therefore, raise tax receipts.
The proposed system of management really looks at vacant lots not as liability but as an asset for the neighborhoods and proposes a comprehensive strategic and ongoing process whereby: one comprehensive entity in the City manages all of the vacant land and has title to it; is strategic, in that all of the lots are cleaned maintained, acquired, and transferred on a regular basis; and that every vacant lot is maintained until an end use is found. The goals here are to alleviate the negative impact of vacant lots by ensuring that every vacant lot remains clean and that to encourage reuse, redevelopment, and stewardship of vacant land by making it easier for individuals and businesses to acquire it. The primary functions of this Office of Vacant Land Management would be to hold title, and 10 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 as neighborhoods come up with plans and the City Planning Commission comes up with plans to redevelop the land, to transfer it to those entities. Therefore, by acting strategically, the City can ensure that all vacant lots in Philadelphia's neighborhoods are cleaned within three years of implementing a program, and it could facilitate the reuse of vacant lots by acquiring all existing vanity lots over the coming nine years. You may have seen the statistics. 6 million over the next years on trying to maintain vacant 16 lots, with nothing to show for it because there's 17 no comprehensive system. By investing the money 18 up front, and the Administration proposes a bond 19 issue, the problem can be addressed rapidly, and 20 the City will accrue some tax benefits by increasing the property values of surrounding properties and also more readily conveying the lands to new uses. I think that the elements of the bill 25 that is proposed certainly are applicable to 11 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 certain situations and really need to be looked at for the situations that they apply to. I recently served as co-chair of the Blight Elimination Subcommittee of the Mayor's Transition Team, and we put these recommendation into the report, and I'm encouraged by the Administration's eagerness to tackle the problem and consider significant policy and systems changes in raising the substantial amounts of dollars through a bond issue to begin to transform this liability into an asset. I think that this bill is a key element to a comprehensive plan, and I really implore the elected officials and the Administration to work together to create a system that will benefit Philadelphia's neighborhoods. I have with me -- I know you all sent a copy of the vacant lands study and recommendations, and I do have extra copies for you if you'd like and also a summary paper that updates the vacant land management study. PHS and it's Philadelphia Green Program stands ready to work with the City and the neighborhoods to make this a very effective policy and turn around the City's neighborhoods. 12 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bonham. Let me just say -- I was remittent (sic). I was so excited to be the new chair of L&I, I forgot to introduce the people, the members of the Committee. My left, and not political left, is the vice chairman, my cousin Darrell Clarke.
To his left and maybe a little to my left, I'm not sure, is Councilman-at-large Ortiz, Councilman Rizzo, Councilman Michael Nutter, and the always beautiful and effervescent -- making us homely-looking group of guys looking pretty good today -- Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown. Thank you. This is like a wrestling match, we'll have nicknames next time. Any questions from members of the committee of this -- Councilman Clarke?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Mr. Bonham. Mr. Bonham, can you -- I had recently 13 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 had an opportunity to look at some of the organizations throughout the City of Philadelphia and their methods of vacant land treatment and particularly up in the Kensington area, Mr. Carpenter. Can you speak a little bit to the effectiveness of that program and the community participation.
Yeah. It was a project that was funded by the Office of Housing and Community Development, and we got additional funding -- both PHS did and New Kensington CDC -- from the William Penn Foundation to try an experiment of neighborhood-based vacant land management. We had proposed this in a 1995 study that we completed that looked at 14 cities like Philadelphia around the Northeast and Midwest, and New Kensington had identified in their New Kensington 2000 Strategic Plan that they completed in 1995 the issue of vacant land. And they embraced devoting resources and management capabilities to addressing vacant land because they felt that it was a key problem that the neighborhoods faced. And in addressing this, they 14 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 would substantially begin to turn around the neighborhood. Over the last four years, of the 1100 vacant lots that were in that neighborhood, they have begun to manage, or transferred through side yards, 540 of them. Several City departments were very cooperative. It's important to know that this is -- this was done without -- not in the context of an overall City policy or of directed resources but through the enthusiastic support of L&I and Streets, although they had limits as to what they could devote to this. And I think in talking to the CDC Director -- first John Carpenter and now Sandy Saltzman (ph.) -- and talking to the residents, the effect that this has had on the neighborhood has been tremendous. Not only does the CDC find that -- as Sandy says, it has brought out people to be concerned about their neighborhood and participate in a way that had never happened before. One of their strategic initiatives was to clean up Frankford Avenue, which was the spine running through the community, and there was 15 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 nothing but vacant lot after vacant lot of piled-high trash. If you drive up Frankford Avenue now, you won't find that anymore; you find maintained lots, some of the them gardens, but many of them grass areas that are mowed by the New Kensington CDC. They bought a tractor, they bought a front-end loader, they equipped themselves to do this, they planted trees around the perimeter of the lot to prevent short-term dumping. Not one tree has been knocked over, and they --
So you're saying that in a number of instances, there was not fencing or just --
The only places they were fencing was where community gardens were developed, where they didn't want dogs or just to define the space.
They didn't want people to take those tomatoes, right?
Right. But for the basic maintained vacant lot that is now just a sort of green lawn, there weren't fences put around. In a couple place there were bollards put. In most 16 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 places, there were trees that were put on the perimeter. There's a few where there's nothing. But while New Kensington has the staff and the equipment to mow it, they also rely on the neighborhoods residents to pick off the trash before they do that, so it's really a cooperative effort.
All right. So it had more to do with the community participation than anything else, regardless of what was --
That's key, it's key. But I think what is an important thing to note here is that community residents themselves can't take care of the vast amount of vacant land just by their own volunteer efforts; it's overwhelming. And that's where the City has to embrace the problem and commit to taking care of it. And in cases where they can delegate and even use the community groups as subcontractors to take care of it, where at a local level, neighborhoods then can begin to imagine what to do with these lots -- either as an interim basis or a long-term basis.
In your blight 17 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 committee, have there been any discussions about a particular division within that department whose sole responsibility is to deal with community organizations at that level? Or have you not gotten into that level of detail yet?
What we proposed was this Office of Vacant Land Management, which would do the mechanics of cleaning, acquiring, holding title, and dispensing when other agencies, or whatever, needed the land, or private individuals. As far as working with community groups, that wasn't built into that. We have a lot of experience and developed processes in working with community groups in developing management structures, and that's something that we would like to work with the City to do with the community groups that participate.
Any other questions from members of the committee for this witness? Councilman Nutter.
Thank you. 18 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Mr. Bonham, let me first say thank you for your testimony. And as Councilman Clarke mentioned, I not too long ago went on a tour of the Kensington area with John Carpenter and saw the work that had been done by New Kensington, and quite honestly, the Councilman had had some conversation with me about this. It was an enlightening and eye-opening experience. It's literally on the other side of the City from where I represent, in West Philadelphia and North Philadelphia and the 21st Ward. And that was, quite honestly, why there's now language in the bill that talks about not only fences but other protective devices. I've seen the light, I guess a little bit, that every neighborhood doesn't necessarily want the same kind of treatment or need the same kind of treatment. So where there is the opportunity for either discretion or working with the next-door neighbor or community-based organization, I think that that is a good thing for those neighborhoods. And so in places -- and we'll hear testimony from some citizens -- where they would 19 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 like to have fences, we should have that flexibility, and in other places, be able to do other things. But I think, as your testimony indicates, the larger issue here is, how do we maintain these lots and keep track of them and make sure that they're being maintained either by the individual or a community-based organization. But I appreciate the testimony that you've shared with us, and I just wanted to make the comments about why we tried to create the flexibility to have a number of other mechanisms to address this issue.
And the bill raises a very critical aspect of the whole process. And while working with neighborhoods and planning is done on how to deal with vacant lots and take down buildings, how to protect them is going to be a key issue.
But it needs to be 20 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 considered. It's very critical and vital.
Thank you, Mr. Bonham. As Vice Chair for my cousin, I'm now going to ask if there are any other questions by members of the committee? (No further questions.)
The next group is Sister Mary Scullion. Can we let her come. She's religious and we separate church and state, and she happened to go to St. Martin of Tours, so. . . Did she turn red yet? Come on, Sister, be embarrassed. If she starts giggling, we'll never get out of here. Come on Sister, giggle. I can never make nuns life -- I've been trying my whole life. (Witnesses come forward).
Please state your name for the record. SISTER SCULLION: My name is Sister 21 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Mary Scullion.
I'm Chris Whaley. SISTER SCULLION: We're all from Project H.O.M.E. And, you know, we're really grateful to be here and we're really grateful for Councilman Nutter for introducing this legislation and for Councilman Mariano and Councilman Clarke and all the other Councilpeople for supporting it because we think it's a very important piece of legislation right now that affects our neighborhood. And we've been to New Kensington and we think the work that they've done there is really terrific, and that's one of the things that we hope to replicate in north central Philadelphia, where we are. Project H.O.M.E., as most of you probably know, works with men and women that are homeless. We work in partnership with them to break the cycle of homelessness, but in the past five years, we've partnered in the low-come north central Philadelphia neighborhood to prevent homelessness from occurring through community revitalization. And that's why we're here today. 22 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 So Chris Whaley is going to begin this testimony.
Good morning. The mission of Project H.O.M.E. is to empower persons to break the cycle of homelessness and poverty, to address the structural causes of poverty, and to enable all of us to attain our fullest potential. We achieve this mission through the continuum of care comprised of street outreach, a range of supportive housing facilities, and complements of services, including health care, education and employment. However, we also operate a community development corporation in north central Philadelphia which administers community revitalization programs, including affordable housing development, employment training, and opportunities, adult and youth education, health care, and environmental enhancement. We have been working for five years to improve this neighborhood block by block and often house by house. As part of our efforts, we are constantly cleaning up empty lots in our neighborhood. When we can, we try to develop 23 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 these lots, and we have successfully turned six of them into wonderful community gardens that are maintained by neighbors. But all too often, this has become the exception. Often these lots just sit and collect trash. They become dumping grounds, they invite litter and trash. These lots can bring the entire neighborhood down. It is essential that these empty lots are fenced and not allowed to diminish the overall stability of a neighborhood. When block has empty lots covered with debris, it contributes to the feeling that no one cares about the neighborhood. Fencing is one of the most requested services in our neighborhoods. Darrell knows that -- we call you all the time.
We support this bill 19 because it would take a small but important step towards reversing the cycle. At least if the City had to fence a lot after it demolishes a building, the fencing would discourage dumping. Also, by controlling the weeds, the lots would look better. But most important, it would send a message that the government does care about how 24 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 things look and about the quality of life in our neighborhoods. Everyone says that we need to improve the quality of life in neighborhoods, and this law would be another necessary step forward in our city to achieving this most worthy goal. Again, thank you for allowing us to testify, and we encourage all of the members of City Council to support this important bill. Thank you .
Identify yourself, identify yourself for the record, I'm sorry.
Helen Brown. When the fences are done, I recommend that they be painted; that way, they won't be stolen.
Any questions from members of the committee for these witnesses? Councilman Nutter?
I don't have any issue with the painting, the painting of the 25 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 fences, but is there something about the fences being painted that --
I've noticed in our neighborhood that just when the regular cyclone fences have been put up on lots, they have been taken.
So if the fences are painted, they have no value to anyone else.
Councilman Clarke just told me salvers don't want 'em with paint.
What do you think he was before he was the Councilman?
She's known me for a long time, don't ask her that question, please.
Thank you. Any other questions? SISTER SCULLION: The only other question is that all of the lots that we've done in the past five years, when we've done them and we've worked with the neighborhood and there was some their support for the neighbors to maintain them -- and it's not a lot of support -- all those gardens look fabulous still. The neighborhood has really gotten better and better as we've done blocks in a whole way and gotten the neighbors involved and had the neighbors maintain and watch 27 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 them. It's really been a worth while investment. To get a fence, it costs us about $1500, but it's really done a lot and gone a long way in maintaining the overall stability and look and feel of the whole neighborhood. So we're really excited about this legislation and we're really, you know, willing to work with all of the Councilpeople, you know, in order to make it a reality in any way we can.
And may I just add, please, that when I came here in 1993, most of the blocks -- Darrell knows where we're from, the Strawberry Mansion area -- most of the blocks were intact. And now almost every block has two or three, -- you know, formerly where homes stood and there were big gaping holes. It's also a very dangerous situation sometimes, you know, when people of the criminal element come into your neighborhood. Well, they know how to run around and get around and scoot around and do all those types of things, and our children and our seniors, you know, it's affected them greatly as well. And, you know, some of those lots go all the way back, and then they're 28 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 in alleys and that sort of thing. So I think that, you know, a bigger picture should be just not just the beautification but the safety as well and the dumping, the dumping, the dumping.
Thank you. Any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)
Seeing none, the next group of witnesses, you guys want to come up now?
I'm Marta Brooks, and I'm a staff attorney with the Senior Citizens Judicare Project.
I'm Gray Smith. I'm an architect and urban planner, and I work with the Judicare folks in a number of legal cases 29 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 involving this issue.
And I have some copies of my testimony, and I'll keep it extremely brief.
Go ahead, you could start while he's handing that out.
Okay. I actually coordinate the Homeowners Assistance Program at Judicare. And Judicare, very briefly, as I'm sure a lot or all of you know, is a legal services organization that represents low-income, elderly residents of Philadelphia -- those are people 60 and older. We assist with things like financial exploitation, physical abuse, landlord-tenant problems, contractor fraud, and most importantly, to what I'm talking about today, is representing people who have suffered property damage as a result of demolition work. I believe in all of the cases, it's City-contracted demolition work. We have been around since 1978. Briefly, our typical client is an African-American woman in her seventies, with an income of 6 and $700 per month. She is often 30 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 helping to support an extended family like grandchildren and great-grandchildren. A lot of our clients are homeowners. And in the cases where I have personally represented our clients regarding property damage caused by City demolition, although they may have multiple problems, the first thing on their mind is having the vacant lot fenced in, and that's always because they will see squatters in the vacant lot, there can be vandalism, graffiti, that kind of thing. And in a few cases, there was what the senior believed to be drug use in the vacant lot. So we are very much in support of having Title 4 amended to include fencing. In the past, what we've had to do is either advise the client to put in the fence themselves, which, quite frankly, practically speaking, was not realistic, with the income they have. So it was, you know, sort of advising them to do something that, unfortunately, we knew they couldn't afford to do. And then more recently, we had the help of Councilman Kenney's office, which, we, along with our clients, were very grateful for, in that he would make sure that fences were 31 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 put in for our clients, and that was just wonderful. But what we'd really like to see is a law on the books that's going to ensure that in those cases where fences is needed -- and I realize thee may be exceptions -- that that fencing is available and that it's funded sufficiently so that we can get those fences up efficiently and really set the minds at ease of many of our elderly homeowners. We have so many in this city.
Thank you. I appreciate the support that you give the residents of the City of Philadelphia. I just have a question on what you said. That advice that you gave the resident to put a fence up, even though they weren't going to do that, was that proper, is that legal for a resident to fence in a lot that doesn't belong to them?
I think if they got the 32 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 appropriate permit, they could do it, but, you know, realistically, it didn't happen, the lots remained empty, they couldn't do it.
I understand that, but just the concept if someone had the money, if they had a lot in their community, I don't believe that they could even get a permit since it's not their property.
Well, since we have the reigning minds of L&I here, Mr. Solvibile, could you come up here and maybe help us with that answer. Of course, not a legal opinion 'cause I know you're not an attorney, but through all your years of expertise at L&I, maybe you could help Councilman Rizzo with that question. (Mr. Solvibile comes forward.)
Good morning. My name is Robert Solvibile, First Deputy Commissioner, Licenses and Inspections. For all practical matters, you cannot give someone the permission to fence something on someone else's property, but a lot of these lots 33 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 are also City-owned properties, so in that case -- you know, I personally -- I guess I should never --
Nobody's going to jail for doing this, though, right?
Exactly. And the only thing they're doing is improving the owner's property, so I personally have no problem with it, if it gives people a level of confidence, if they want to fence, and if they're not damaging the property.
And in the case that was laid out, Deputy Commissioner Solvibile, I didn't get the impression from Miss Brooks that the person had necessarily asked the government for permission. It seemed to me, quite honestly, that they were trying to take a step to first protect themselves, possibly protect the rest of the neighborhood, and one of the reasons we're here today is to make sure that people are not in that particular situation. We have folks who either have not been fortunate enough to get a fence, or we'll here testimony later on today where someone did, in 34 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 fact, put a fence on a lot that's not their property but is a dangerous situation. And we can sit around and debate whether that's appropriate or not, but under the circumstances, it's a public health and safety issue, and people are going to be safe, and they're going to take at times extraordinary measures to make sure that they're safe and not be subject to, you know, what the government is doing or not doing.
And if I could just mention that we always talk to our clients. They were very well aware that it wasn't their property in the sense that so often the problem was that the people were deceased, and it was really owned by an estate that hadn't been taking care of it from years ago, and we always informed 18 Councilman Kenney's office of the information we 19 were able to obtain of the last owner in case they 20 could be billed or whatever the situation might be.
But we were always forthright with our clients about the fact that -- I mean, quite frankly, we didn't have a solution 35 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 for that.
And all we could do is give them a little practical information.
Well, with a little luck, hopefully after today, you won't have to tell clients to do that anymore.
Thank you, Councilman. Councilman Clarke, do you have a comment?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to respond to that issue. About a year and a half ago, then-Council President Street introduced a bill that was passed by the Council at the last session. It's called the "Vacant Lot Nuisance Abatement Bill." We had actually been working with L&I on that, and my understanding is that an individual or an entity had the ability to enter into a license agreement with the Department of L&I to abate the nuisance, i.e., putting a fence up, and they actually signed an agreement as an abator and an agent for the 36 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 City of Philadelphia. So in that instance, you can legally enter onto a private property and put a fence up.
In every case that I was involved with, L&I ended up putting up the fence, so it was with the City's blessing, so to speak.
I -- not to correct anybody, but I believe it was not L&I but a fencing program --
-- that was managed then in the Managing Director's Office but no 15 longer. It is now in L&I, but it then was in the Managing Director's Office.
I just assumed that because we were dealing with Councilman Kenney at the time.
Any other questions for this witness? Councilman Clarke, I don't know how I forgot you -- or Brown, Reynolds-Brown.
Good morning. I know of the good work of Judicare. I 37 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 was particularly struck by your opening comment where you end up defending, supporting your client because of damage that, I am sure, unintentionally has been completed by the City. So what kinds of provisions are in place to minimize those circumstances particularly as we look to the upcoming anticipated blight program?
Well, yeah, actually Gray Smith and our office are both very interested in that issue. What happens is that the City will contract with private contractors to do the work. The specifications don't -- in our mind don't have all of the proper requirements, so that when we go and contact the contractor, the contractor can say, Well, that's not called for in the contract. And technically, that's -- they have a point there. And what we have had to do in certain cases is actually bring a lawsuit against the City and the individual contractor. Every case has been settled. We are not litigious, we are not look to go bring a lawsuit.
In fact, in all of those 38 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 cases. We negotiated for such a long time and finally, only at the end, when we really were getting nowhere, did we bring the actual action. And so, really, we think it's a problem with the regulations set up at L&I that, you know, cornices can be left broken off, or there can be improper fill put in the vacant lot, and there's really no oversight -- or I shouldn't say "no 10 oversight." There isn't sufficient oversight and things could be left damaged that, quite, frankly, the -- you know, a person who was paid for this work themselves would never put up with. In our case, our clients are just the innocent victims. They're living next door to a property that had to be demolished because someone else was not taking care of it -- whether it's because they were dead for ten years or because the person that owns the property can no longer afford to take care of it, whatever the issue may be. But our client is victimized in the sense that they're left now with this vacant lot that's unfenced and there's actual damage to their property. And I would say that we get a couple of 39 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 those cases per year. It's not like they're flowing in constantly, but each year, we get several. And so that has been an issue for us and something that we had started to talk to Councilman Kenney's office about.
Okay. So even with the couple, it's still considered a headache. So let me redirect the question to the City: What kinds of provisions have you looked to put in place to minimize and reduce 2 to 1 or 0? because in the end, it's the senior citizens who have limited resources and it becomes a severe headache for them.
The City -- to start at the beginning, most of the buildings, as was stated, are abandoned by the owner. I called them mom-and-pop-type buildings, where the parents own the building, taxes haven't been paid for ten years, and a lot of 'em are long-term abandonment, in excess of ten years. And when we get to them, they're in a state of collapse.
A building in a state of collapse is a lot harder to tear down than a 40 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 building that's in sound condition. A lot of times -- and not every case -- some of the damage was done prior, which was unseen by water, long-term water leakage. As to the fill, in the last three years, the City has taken on a task of every lot, before payment is approved, every demolition, before we approve payment, has test pits -- no 10 exceptions, every lot. And not one test pit, but at least more than two.
Test pits, where we make the contractor bring the machine and show us the fill that's there.
And we're looking for -- brick is allowed, dirt, and you cannot have metals or wood in the hole. And I think that some of the contention from Mr. Gray may be that the brick is a problem, I'm not sure, but that brick is allowable in the demolition, as long as there's no wood. As to the contractor causing damage, 41 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 the City has an insurance policy that co-names the City. For a contractor to do work for the City, they must have a insurance policy in force that co-names the City, and we check it several times a year to make sure that, you know, the due dates are being met by the contractor. And so there's a lot of work that goes into not having homes damaged, but demolition being the second most hazardous occupation in the State, damage is going to happen. And hopefully, we can get it corrected.
And we would love to be able to have further discussion regarding that, but I don't want to put anyone on the spot, but we could talk about our cases --
'Cause Councilman Rizzo is going to explode. Youse could sidebar after this, but we have more witnesses. 42 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Councilman Rizzo?
Counselor, you indicated that you've had communications with some of the contractors and they claim that it wasn't in the specification what you were requesting. Have you ever communicated to L&I?
The fact that possibly the specification that the contractors are working with doesn't include certain things that you consider required to do a proper demolition?
Well, Gray can definitely comment on that. We certainly have in terms of once litigation has been started, all of that is discussed, but when we do -- before we started any litigation, we initially filed a claim which has to be done within six months of the date of the damage. So a claim is filed with the City, and then we are referred to -- with Risk Management, and then we are referred to the contractors. And whenever I've dealt initially with a claim, there were often promises that certain measures be done, but they were not done. 43 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025
Miss Brooks, Councilman, this isn't really germane to this particular hearing. I think this is another hearing about contractors. I mean, I hate to do this to you, but we'll be here all day.
Okay? And if we could stay on the fence thing here and then -- I'll talk to you personally after this. Councilman Rizzo and I will hang around, and maybe there's something we can do, 'cause it's more than the tearing down of buildings when this happens; there's a lot of City contracts that don't follow form, we're finding that out. Do you have any statement for us?
I'm Gray Smith. I'm an architect and urban planner. My office is in Center City, Philadelphia.
I'm also a City resident 44 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 and a taxpayers. And for years, I've studied the process used by the Department of L&I for demolition of imminently dangerous properties. Both as a citizen and a taxpayer, I'm concerned about the liabilities it creates for the City government and as an expert in over legal cases against the 9 City regarding demolition of properties and the 10 damages to the properties next door caused by that 11 work by the private contractors that are 12 contracted to the City. Most of those cases were 13 Judicare cases, but there have been some private 14 civil actions as well by property owners currently 15 working on Sheridan Street, for example, within 16 the Roxborough area, for the property owners 17 adjacent to the demolition project by the City in 18 that regard. 19 To begin with, and I've said this many 20 times, L&I should really not be in the business of contracting for building demolition.
Mr. Smith, I hate to do this to you too, and I know you want to get this on the record and it's important, but this has nothing to do with fences. I know it's the 45 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 reason, it's like the chicken and the egg, so to speak, but --
Right. And, I mean, this is something we definitely want to have hearings on, 'cause as the Chairman of L&I, I'm very interested in this, but we have some people here that want to get here and that need to speak. If you want to hang around and talk to us about that --
I did want to say -- the next statement I was going to make is that --
-- that is a subject for another hearing, but it did open up today and I've been very intimately involved in that issue.
Thank you, and I'd love to talk to you about that 'cause it's very important.
Regarding the new requirement for fencing at the perimeter of newly vacant properties, I urge the adoption of Bill No. 25 000025. 46 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 If you can picture a rowhouse property, and some of you, like I, live in rowhouses in Philadelphia, and all of a sudden one day, the building on one side of you is demolished. All of the security that you had from that building adjacent to you, which nobody could get into that property, other than through the front door, is gone. And you're left with it entirely open, insecure, and in many cases, without your side fence in between that property because it may have gotten demolished at the same time. And all of a sudden, people start parking there, or junk cars, abandoned vehicles start arriving there. Vandalism occurs to your property and to the property across the way. And there's other dumping, the growth of weeds, which harbor rats, dogs, and bugs. Fencing, obviously, would help eliminate some of those problems. Clearly to avoid the liabilities that are created by the City when they expose adjacent property owners to open derelict properties in this process need to be resolved and prevented, and a simple way to do that is a minimum of 6-feet-high chain-link fencing painted, with solid 47 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 foundations, not temporary fencing, at the front, both sides, and the back property line, with clear, distinct specifications as to the requirements for each individual property. Both interior and corner properties need the full treatment. And I would suggest that we somehow get a definition of "other protective devices" so that the minimal is not always the rule. In a perfect world, a front gate and keys to that gate for the neighbors or for a block captain or a civic association would be a long -- would go a long way towards maintenance of the lot once it is fenced, because we cannot rely on the City and its limited resources to do that work. And since community groups are doing such a significant job of that, we need to depend on them and Mr. Bonham's programs. There is one obstacle to this bill, though. The City budget you passed about a month ago specifically omitted the cost of fences for City demolition projects. In fact, it was such an important omission, it was mentioned in a very brief newspaper article about those few omissions that you did. So I trust that City Council will 48 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 quickly shift money around to handle that problem now that it will be a regulatory issue and not just simply a voluntary issue on the part of the City. Again, when City Council considers the broader issue of transferring these demolition efforts to other agencies perhaps, please call on me for testimony and I'd be glad to talk to you later today.
Thank you very much. Any questions? Councilman Clarke?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Solvibile, I had a question about L&I's policy on cleaning vacant lots when they are fenced. And I know in the past, there have been numerous requests that come in to ask to clean a lot and weeds that had already been fenced in.
Well, at that point, the lot is in the possession of the community, and it's their responsibility to clean it.
As a matter of fact, during the fencing program that was ran by the Managing Director's Office, a gate was placed on the lot and a key given to the block captain to -- you know, for access in and out and to keep it locked. So that's our policy. The community then becomes responsible for the maintenance of the lot.
No? Seeing none, the next group of witnesses -- we're going to pull a couple of the community groups up here at a time. Let me find my list. James Grant, Ruth Bazemore, Elizabeth Parker, and Sharon Parker, if you guys could all come up here at the same time. (Witnesses come forward.)
Mr. Grant, I seem 50 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 to have you with all the ladies, I didn't mean that, but congratulations.
And since we called Mr. Grant's name first, Mr. Grant, do you want to go first?
Well, yeah. Thank you, Council. First I'd like to say good morning to the Council.
My name is James Arthur Grant, Sr., and I'm here in support of the Bill 15 25. And I was hoping that I would hear some discussion on it before you call on me to say anything from the panel there, to let me know just which way I should speak here this morning. I am for the bill. I'm looking at the fact that if there's a fence put around this property, it need to be at least 6 foot high to keep people from throwing garbage over the fence, and we need a key in the neighborhood so the resident can get in there and clean it up when it get dirty. Now, this is my idea of it. I think 51 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 it's a good bill and I'd like to support it as far as I can. Thank you.
Good morning and thanks for allowing me to be here. My name is Ruth Bazemore, and I brought along with me another block captain, Miss Grace Haywood.
Basically, I'm always in support of anything that's going to make our community better, but prior, I'm using this opportunity to address the problem of vacant lots that we in our community is having a problem seems to basically being able to have acquisition. And one of the properties, it's in the 5300 block of Race Street, and another is in the unit block of Ruby Street, 52 North Ruby, 5317 Market.
And these are properties, ma'am, that you're having problems acquiring or you're having problems --
Basically acquiring. But one of the reasons -- the main reason is, we 52 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 have a very stable block, and the 5300 is the first time that we even have -- it's a corner property being torn down. We weren't even aware that it should have been torn down, but it was. And we went through quite a bit of process after it was torn down where it was really unsafe. But we're going to move on because what we would like is that we have gotten some funding from the block captains to basically do programs with young children, and we would like these properties to be turned over to us so that we could have them fenced in and use them basically as a gardener as the tool for our community, and we are sort of like not being able to hit first base.
Ma'am, not to interrupt you, but I just want to answer you. You are very, very lucky today because you have your District Councilperson sitting right here, Councilman Nutter, and I know you know him and have a relationship with him. A real quick civic lesson: everything flows through his office in his Council district. So he can --
All right, okay. We'll get someone from her office to help you.
And I have a letter -- I mean, we've been through all of this.
In fact, the properties that I'm speaking of have been turned over to a law firm, and I just spoke to them, and I have a letter from the City, and I went to her and I also went to the City, and it's dated August the 18th, '99. And it says that it's still in the name of Walter Powell. Well, these people are dead, they've been dead. 54 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025
What may have happened there -- and I'm not exactly sure, but I can tell you from my experience in my district and the other District Councilmen, the City sold a bunch of these tax liens, and if you read the Daily News, they did a real in-depth article about it -- in fact, one of the reporters is probably sitting over there, and he'll probably share his notes with you -- Mr. McDonald -- about how this works 'cause he knows more about this than any of us. But what happens is that the City sold all these tax liens. Now, we as District Councilpeople fought, and some of the At-Large Councilpeople, for us to be able to handle these questions that you have particularly. When there's one in a district that we care -- in my district, I go and try to get it substituted. I have a couple right now that it's taken a long time. The City throws other ones in and then take them back and then we try and work something out with people like yourself and good intended community groups. I mean, I can't answer for Councilwoman 55 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Blackwell, but we can get somebody from her office up here to talk to you about that.
I would appreciate that because we -- the lots right now are being cared for, but we cannot -- we want to keep them from having cars and rubbish, and we've been doing this. We need the fencing but we would also like to be able to have control so that they could be a community project, because if we are being asked to -- and we don't have a problem but we're trying to keep our community safe and, we really want to thank our mayor for moving the cars, we want to thank Mr. Nutter for having the trees, because they're going to remove some of the trees on our block.
Now, if start with the Mayor and go to Mr. Nutter, you have to mention every one of our names or we get mad. (Laughter.)
Because Councilman 56 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Rizzo looking really, really hurt. He's got them big crocodile tears. And not to cut you short again, but in the interest of time, you're in favor of the fences.
And all these other things, we will want to work with you. And could we possibly wrap this up and hear from the others.
And have the fence and how we can basically get acquisitions of these lots so that we can continue our program.
Councilman, Miss Bazemore put the addresses in the record, so we can check on them. 57 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025
Good morning. My name is Sharon Ball. I am glad to be here. This is my first time so -- oh, boy, you have my --
And it's my first time, too, as the Chairman of this committee, so I'm sort of scared too.
But my brain is really clicking from the prior testimonies because I have a lot of questions for them.
Let me just tell you, you don't have Councilman Nutter. He's kicking me as I do everything wrong. At least his feet can't reach you, and he is a good guy but he's got a tough kick.
Yeah. Again, my name is Sharon Ball. I'm the block captain and block coordinator for the 2900 block of Ringgold Street, also the former committeeperson for the 38th Ward, 21st Division. I've worked in my community for over 30 years, I've worked with children for the 58 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 same length of time. And I've seen my neighborhood go up and come down and try to come back up again. And the fences, I am all for it because the young lady that testified, the attorney, yes, I'm one who had three houses torn down on my block, and I had personally took money out of my pocket to put a fence up because I wasn't going to worry about sleeping at night. Who's going to come in my back yard or my neighbor's back yard or the back yards behind me, that was a concern of mine. So I went to the Police Department and called my police district and asked them, was it okay? They said it was fine. I said I had no 16 problems with it, and the fence went up, okay, because that was a concern of mine as well as a concerned citizen and person that's living on that block. Now, we have quite a few vacant lots on the block. Some have fences. We just had two properties torn down last year, summer of '99 -- 29, 42, and 44. They weren't completely done, they hadn't finished the walls on both sides. Unfortunately, I had two youths that were back 59 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 there trying to steal an elderly's large dog house. They got half of it over the fence. Fortunately, I was home that particular day and I seen one of the assailants. So I was able to apprehend him, and he put the lady's dog house back. Now, if I wasn't there and no other neighbor seen them, they might have done something to the neighbor. They're right in back of this vacant lot. I have seniors -- if you're facing the lot -- this is Ringgold Street (indicating), these are the two vacant houses. I have seniors on the right side, and I have older -- all females -- on the left. So why should they worry at night when they want to go to sleep? Why should the young lady, the little girl have to worry at night when she has to get up in the morning to go to school? She has to worry about her grades, not who's going to come in her house, or who's going to be in the alleyway at night while she's trying to sleep. It's not fair to her, it's not fair to her education. And it's an unnecessary stress for families on both sides. So, yes, please pass this bill, let 60 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 those fences go up. And if you want to us respect you, you have to respect us and be concerned about our community and your constituents. And, also, we have a few blocks -- 2942 and 44 -- it doesn't have a fence yet, it was torn down in '99. 2970, it has a fence that took five years. 2418 West Mayfield also needs a fence, okay? They do have one, excuse me, but it took less than three years, okay? 2409 West Elkhart, they need a fence. That house demolished in '99. Yesterday, the 2400 block of Toronto Street, they're demolishing a property. Hopefully, it won't take over a year to have fences put up there, okay? And we really need it. Okay, you want the residents to vote for you and your platform, but once you're elected, the platform is terminated. And why should you terminate the platform. If we could work together as a team, we could accomplish a lot. Thank you. 61 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025
Thank you, ma'am. Any questions for this witness? (No questions.)
Okay. Miss Bazemore, I didn't catch the lady's name who was with you. Did she have --
I'm sorry, ma'am, I thought you spoke. Excuse me. Say your name for the record.
Good morning, Councilpersons. My name is Grace Haywood (ph.), and I live in the unit block of North Peach Street. I'm the block captain and also a committee person of the 3rd Division, 44th Ward. I'm here in reference to a lot at the end of my street, at Peach and Market. It's been vacant for, I'll say, 20 years, but about five years ago, it became a lot for anything -- you name it, abandoned cars, prostitution, and drugs. 62 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 So we were able to move the cars from it and we've been trying for that long to have it fenced in. And I have a written permission from the owner to have this lot fenced in. So I'm hoping there's someone here that could give me some information as to how I can do it. I also notified my ward leader, and he has had a copy of this permission now for over a year. And he said, well, lack of funds is the reason why he couldn't have it done, so I would like to know what can be done.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ma'am, what I'd like to suggest is if you would give the young man that letter, we're going to make a copy of it, give you original back, and then we will get the copy of the letter to the appropriate people. Does that have your name and phone number on that letter?
Okay, we'll get it 63 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 from you before you leave. Please don't go until we get that information, okay? Thank you.
We're talking about these lots, and we're getting vacant lots quite frequently. I think that soon, we'll be talking about rebuilding because if you don't straighten up something, we won't have no place for the people to live. Thank you.
Thank you. Seeing no more questions for these witnesses, I think we have one or two more witnesses before we get to the City people?
Jean Trice? Is there anyone else out there that didn't get up here? Oh, I'm sorry. Miss Johnson and Miss Parker, Elizabeth Parker. 64 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 (Witnesses come forward.)
Is there anybody else out there that wants to get on this panel? (More witnesses come forward.)
We'll start with Miss Parker, is it? We'll start with you since you're at my left. State your name for the record.
My name is Elizabeth Parker. Members of City Council, City officials, and concerned citizens of Philadelphia, good morning.
I come before you this morning to urge the passing of Bill No. 25, which would require a fence around lot after L&I demolishes a building. First, I would like to read a letter from my block captain concerning a vacant lot that has been vacant for about five years. It's addressed to Councilman Nutter. "I am writing to you about Bill No. 23 25. This bill will help neighborhoods have control over what happens in and around vacant lots on their street. 65 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 "Our lot is located at 434 North 60th Street. It was demolished about five years ago by Licenses and Inspections. There were calls made to several State and City agencies, including your office, asking for help to clean, remove dead trees, and fence and front the back of the lot. Everyone stated that monies were tight, but our lot would be placed on a list. So when available funds were allocated for these projects, our lot would be included. "We have problems with weeds, falling trees, a homeless man using the lot for his bathroom and sleeping areas, strange men and women using the high weeds and trees for cover for sex, stray cats, dogs, possums, raccoons, trash, and old tires. The families in this block would appreciate the passing of City Council Bill No. 25 with the intent to help neighborhoods maintain safe and clean streets. " And now I would like to share with you a personal note about the vacant lots that is next door to me and the problems that I have had, and 66 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 after the fact, I did have to have it fenced in myself. First, 1988 to 1999, I lost my homeowner's insurance because of the vacant house. November 1999, the house was demolished by the City. At this time, the neighbors and I began making phone calls and writing letters to our Councilmen, the Mayor's Office, Deputy Managing Director's Office, and to anyone in City Hall that would listen. December 29, 1999, a letter to Councilman Nutter which reads as follows: "Dear Councilman Nutter: This letter comes in reference to the recent demolished properties at 417 North 60th Street and 423 North 60th Street, which is next door to me. The properties were demolished for reasons of unsafe and unsightly conditions. We are grateful to you and L&I for the demolitions. However, if we and the City are going to stamp out urban blight, we must fence in the vacant lot, lest it become another form of urban blight. "We, the neighbors in the block, are very concerned about these vacant lots since the 67 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 houses on either side cast a dark shadow at night from the street light. It has become an area of teenage gathering, drinking, and drug activity. I have been approached by persons who wish to work on their cars on the lot, which could lead to our having abandoned cars or a junk yard next to us, not to mention the dumped trash. "We have seen the negative results of a vacant lot on our block. " (Which is the letter that I read previously) ". . and there are now three vacant lots on our block, and that is after the fact that I sent letters to the Mayor's Office and also to the Deputy Managing Director's Office, and a third letter and final letter, which was dated March 15, 2000, to Councilman Nutter, thanking him for all of the efforts trying to help us in getting the fence. " Now, that is my personal account of the lot left that was open by the City next door to me. That is why I am also urging you to pass Bill 6 25, which would require, after demolition and stuccoing, that the job would be completed with a fence around the lot. We would also appreciate any reimbursement for the payment of our fence. And I would also like to add that before we fenced in the lot, the youngsters were playing basketball against the stuccoed wall, and a lot of the cement or stucco had been broken, and we had to get a contractor to patch those places. So, again, I urge you to please pass this bill. Thank you.
Thank, you ma'am. I think Councilman Nutter has -- will start off with some questions.
And again thank you and everyone who is here. 69 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Miss Parker, we have talked on many, many occasions about your particular situation, and you and I have known each other for a good while. And first let me say publicly to you, as I've said privately, I apologize to you for our inability to try to make a safe situation next to and near your home. It -- my colleagues -- some of them actually know you by name. They had not met you, but they've heard me talk about you in recent budget hearings, and our L&I people have heard me talk about Mrs. Parker. Now you are here today, and it really makes a tremendous impact. As you said, ultimately, you could not wait, and I understood that and I felt very bad for your situation, and you informed me that you had paid for a fence at the lots. What did you pay for that?
$600 that you spent out of your money to put a fence on a lot that you don't own.
But you were 70 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 concerned that people could access your property or your neighbors' properties from the back?
Right. And also trash. There were a couple of mornings that there was large discarded furniture that I could not move and had to pay somebody to put it up.
Right. Now, I've come past your property on a number of occasions, so I'm certainly familiar with it, but for the record, what would you say the width of the lot is, probably maybe 15, feet or so? This is 13 kind of an average-sized house in West 14 Philadelphia? 15
Yes. I think it measures 16 inches -- I mean 17 feet, I'm sorry. 17
We hear from time to time a wide range of figures associated with fencing lots. Yours is, in the case of $600. I think we heard testimony earlier from Sister Mary 71 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Scullion of upwards of over $1,000.
Excuse me, Councilman. I might have missed it when I spoke to Mr. Solvibile, did he ask you how big your lot was?
Do you have a sense 14 of the depth? It's probably maybe 40 feet or so 15 deep. 16
Okay. I have a copy of the bill, though it does not indicate the deputy on that, but it's -- it's kind of an average-sized rowhouse in West Philadelphia.
And whatever those dimensions are, I mean, that's kind of what you generally see out in West Philadelphia. These are two-story homes, probably three or four bedrooms 72 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 and a back yard.
And an alley running through the back, so. . . Anything else you'd like to add, Miss Parker.
Okay, good, I'm glad to hear that. And I will continue to work to try to get some of that back for you.
I just very strongly believe that citizens should not be placed in a situation, first and foremost, of danger to themselves after we have -- as you said, we removed one dangerous situation, which was the deteriorating building, put the stucco up, and whatever that situation, but then if we walk away, we have still left you in an unsafe situation.
I mean, you don't have bricks falling down on you, but you've got people next door to you who are accessing the back of your property that --
And that's destroying the property with the stucco and the ball-playing in the lot.
Oh, kids try to play ball in the lot and they bang up against your house?
Yeah. The youngsters come by from school and play with their basketball and they're hitting the side of the wall. Of course, that breaks the stucco.
Sure, I'm sure. We're going to try to rectify this situation, but your testimony, I think, is very helpful and very explanatory for folks who, you know, maybe see things in a different way. And as we've discussed before, this might not be the exact approach for each and every neighborhood, but here we have people who care about what's going on there. I know -- I mean, I know that you're going to take care of that particular 74 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 fence, but even if the City had put it up, I know you're going to watch it and also make sure that inappropriate activities don't take place at the location.
Thank you. Any other questions for this witness? (No further questions.)
My name is Madeline Dunn and I'm from West Philadelphia. I support Bill 000025. In fact, we have one house in our block that's about to come down. It would be the first to come down. It is a twin three-story. We've kind of analyzed it. It was left vacant for over 15 years, so my first suggestion to the City is that when a person dies and the heirs can't make up their mind, that shouldn't be on us. In the second year that the taxes are paid, that house should go on the market 75 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 bought because then it could have been bought and fixed up and somebody used it, okay? That's number one. Number two, we sent in a list of all the vacant properties in our areas -- I wouldn't even start to name them for you, except to say, again, if they don't pay the taxes in two years, you bring 'em to the market, and there are people who will buy them and fix them up. We love Philadelphia, and we want to keep it as sound as we can. Now, this has nothing to do with this except the fact that I support Bill 25. And in order to do that, the City's going to need some money. So when the new sports stadiums, any team using it, 1 percent off the top should be used for the City, the community and schools. Okay, 1 percent right off the top. And it's very important that we have some money to do what we need. Did Blondell -- or somebody else up there --
Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown is working on that. 76 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025
Wonderful. Let me know when the hear is and I'll try to really write a paper. The stucco should be wired. Whoever the people are who take down these porches where they take them down 'cause the porches is pulling off, that needs to be done by somebody that knows about using a leveler so that it's put up properly and it's not leaning. And when the stucco was put up, it should be put up very carefully and wired so that it stays. Thank you so very much to all you wonderful Councilpeople. We look forward to your continued support in West Philadelphia, Carol Parker in particular.
Thank you, ma'am. Any questions for this witness? (No questions.)
Yes. I'm Jean Trice, block captain of the 1400 block of Vodges Street. I am very much in favor of the bill. I now have three vacant lots on our street, and they're using the lots for urinating and whatever. Criminals are running through the lot 77 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 to escape the police, and we really need some help with this lot. So I'm hoping that you can pass this bill and I'm very much in favor of it. And I have a quick question for you. When they stucco the house next door that was torn down, the lady has hole in it, and she has reported it over and over again. What is the limitation of time that they will come back and do something about it? I guess it's been about eight years that it's been done, but she's afraid that rats and things are going to go in her house. It is a bum, bum deal. That job was done (unintelligible).
Mr. Solvibile, would you love to try to answer that one? (Mr. Solvibile comes forward.)
No, he's the head of L&I. If he was, he wouldn't tell you.
I believe the question is, how long does the City guarantee the stucco?
A year, and then it 78 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 becomes the homeowner's responsibility to maintain the party wall.
Well -- well, I assume there was no damage. Who's "they"? I'm not sure what -- if you see me after this, we'll talk and I'll --
Okay. See me after and give me the address, and I'll send an inspector out there and then call you back.
Any more questions for this witness? (No further questions.)
Good morning. My name is Carly Johnson. I live in West Philadelphia. And my concern is the safety in 79 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 fencing. I'm at 605 North 53rd Street. There's a fence there, and like the lady next to me, I'm being awakened at night with criminals running through, police, helicopters, with guys running through there and hiding from the police. And going in the back of me, there is an alleyway. They go around through there and shoot guns. They have pit bulls in the back and tear down -- it's a wooden gate there, but they keep that torn down so that they could continue to go in there and throw debris. So I'm really afraid and hope you can do something about it. Thank you.
Thank you. Any questions for this witness? (No questions.)
My name is Ethel Jenkins. I live in the 1400 block of North 61st Street. The house next door to me was torn down over a year ago. I've been constantly talking to Michael Nutter's office, trying to acquire a fence. And the problems are -- one of my 80 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 grandchildren found a hypodermic needle out in the back, which really made me very afraid. My husband found some guys letting their dogs going out in the back and using it as a bathroom. And there are children on the block. And my concern mostly is for the kids. The children, of course, are going to play on the lot because the lot has nothing around it. And my fear is that something, you know, terrible is going to happen to them. Luckily, the grandchild brought the hypodermic needle to me and the children didn't get hurt with it. And we have a alleyway, but have of the fence to the alleyway is down, so all of that is exposed to the children. And as the other lady said, the kids play ball against my wall because my house has the stucco on it. And I don't want to have to fear criminals, and someone tried to steal my barbecue pit, but luckily, it was chained up, and someone cut it, and they didn't get that. So I'm definitely in favor of Bill No. 23 25. Thank you.
Thank you, ma'am. Any questions for this witness? 81 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 (No questions.)
Seeing none, we have another of witnesses. Mr. Fields -- or Janice Fields, I'm sorry, and Wayne Porter. And is there anyone else that wants to testify? We can get about four or five people up here at once. (Witnesses come forward.)
This will be the last call for community people, all right? Mr. Porter go ahead.
I'm Wayne Porter, with the Parkside Association of West Philadelphia. I have a question, if you guys don't minds. How can the City afford to constantly keep getting L&I to come out to clean these lots?
Since this is Councilman Nutter's bill, I'll let him answer that. Go ahead, Councilman.
Good. Actually, we're anticipating, going forward, that we don't necessarily want to have L&I in a position where 82 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 they keep coming out to clean a vacant lot. What we're looking for is a program that entails both the L&I commissioner having the discretion to first decide whether a should fence go up, bollards, trees, or some other protective device, as well as we want an environmentally sound vegetation management plan put in place so you don't necessarily get all the overgrowth and the weeds and all of that activity. We want to cut down on that, first and foremost. Second, we want to work with either the abutting neighbor, the neighbor, you know, right next door to the vacant lot, or someone else on the block or the block organization, community- based organization or CDC to work with us on the maintenance issues. And I think going forward, potentially in the blight elimination program, there will probably be some contracting opportunities for community-based organizations to actually put some people to work to maintain the lots as opposed to the City constantly having to come out to do it. I recognize that, and I think my colleagues do as well. 83 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 But that really is not a long-term solution to this particular problem, and we've seen in some other neighborhoods -- and I think you were here when Miss Parker was testifying and some other neighbors. Where we develop partnerships with people on these particular issues and provide a minimum level of support, maybe if they clean the lot, they want to be sure that the City is going to come back and pick up the stuff that's at the curb, 'cause sometimes we haven't done that in the past as well. We want to work with community organizations or individuals on these lots but have a maintenance program basically in place, and we'll probably have to spend a little bit of money to ensure it, but we certainly don't want the Department coming out year after year after year. I think Mr. Solvibile testified in a previous, public hearing probably budget time, that the City does clean vacant lots presently, and the estimate is that it's upwards of 30 percent of the lots that are cleaned. Of the total number that are done, upwards of 30 percent of them are lots that were previously cleaned in another fiscal year. 84 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 So we already have a certain amount of going back and going back and going back. We're hoping to prevent that with a good maintenance, a fence around it to try to decrease, if not eliminate, the debris and other activity, and also make sure that the neighborhood is basically working with us to maintain it.
Well, I can honestly say that we, the residents of Parkside Association, support Bill 25. I was just curious about that because of the simple fact that, you know, in the area that I live in, there's a lot of short- dumping because there is no fencing. I think it's a excellent idea for the simple fact that it takes away the opportunity for someone to just back their truck up into the lot and dump a bunch of crap on the lot.
Also -- it also secures the neighborhoods from drug dealers, because a lot of these lots in my area, the drug dealers are using them to more or less do their little business and so forth and so on. And I think this bill is long time coming. 85 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025
Thank you, Mr. Porter. Mr. Porter, also -- and everything Councilman Nutter said and your questions, is if everyone was like Mrs. Parker, we probably wouldn't have these problems, and the great people that are here. You know, Councilman Clarke and I were sidebarring when she was talking, but imagine having to go through what she had to go through, and I know you see it. Imagine having to go through all of this and then the City here and then winding up at the end paying for the fence yourself. And it's a frustration of Councilman Nutter and the rest of us and, I mean, we're getting there. I mean, it seems like it takes long when you're Miss Parker and the other woman that has people and helicopters and criminals running down her alley. But, you know, if we put these fences up -- and I suspect that this will get through 86 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 here -- what we've got to make sure is we have the police and ourself, that's all 'cause we all live here, and I think you see that and I think -- I don't know much about your group, but I'm sure if Councilman had you here, it's a good group, and you see the whole big picture, where it's our responsibility too -- it's our neighborhoods, it's our city.
But I understand because it was two vacant lots next to the house that I own, right? I had it cemented in and I fenced the two properties together.
That's incredible. Thank you. Any questions for him before we get to the next witness? (No questions.) Miss Fields?
Hello. My name -- I'm a little nervous. This is the first time.
My name is Janice Fields. I live in West Philadelphia. I live on the 1500 of (unintelligible) Street. I've lived there all my life, my parents have lived there all their life. We have a lot that is across the street from us. I lived there when there was a building there. I was there when it was torn down. For about three years, I've contacted Councilman Nutter's office in West Philadelphia, and I've spoken to a Mr. Bob Johnson in regards to getting the property fenced in and cleaned up. It was cleaned up once by L&I, but it's become a family effort for me now. My 12-year-old son, my 22-year-old daughter, and I clean the lot every year, and every year it's re-dumped on. I've called the Police Department, which is the 19th District, for short-dumping, and by the time they get there, they've already dumped it and left. What I'm trying to do is see if I cannot get that lot fenced in. I have about eight seniors on the other side of the street that were 88 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 willing to pay the taxes on the property if we could just get it fenced in.
The seniors there are not able do the manual work so my family does the manual work.
I've contacted Councilman-At-Large Rizzo's office, and the secretary also tried to find out how I could get fencing. She ran into the same road blocks that I had for getting fencing. I've gone to the Horticultural Society. I've spoken to Carol Park and I've also spoken to Miss Trice that was here earlier, and nobody seems to know. And I know there's funds for it and I do support this bill. If we could possibly get that. Where other people see trash, I see beauty, okay? I feel as though it could be used -- at least that particular lot, it would be well-maintained. There are other lots in the area that really could be used. There are a lot of older adults, adults my age, that are basically from the south, and they want a little piece of 89 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 ground where they can have fresh vegetables. And that's something that the lots can be used for.
And a lot of the other block captains that I spoke to have no problems paying the taxes on the property, and that's revenue for the City. So I am in full support of this.
Mm-hmm, thank you. What was -- tell me again, what was the address in question?
Thank you. Any other questions for Miss Fields? (No questions.)
Seeing none, any other witnesses? 90 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 I'll bring the L&I experts up here. Mr. Solvibile can hardly wait, I can tell. Thank you. Youse are excused.
Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I'm assuming that you're going to call L&I up next, and while they're coming up, if I could just read into the record and then give it to the stenographer, if we could make it a part of this record various either letters or testimony by other individuals who could not be with us today.
These are letters from: Miss Gloria Guard, Executive Director of People's Emergency Center; Mr. John Quillen, 1237 from North Redfield Street; Miss Vicki Franks, North 54th Street; Miss Elizabeth Griffin, North Ruby Street; Miss Doris Hinton, from North 57th Street; 91 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Miss Helen Leel, in the 1200 block of North St. Bernard Street; Miss Adeline Dorsey, from Berks Street; Miss Elizabeth Wright, North 54th Street; Miss Eileen Burke, from North 60th Street; Mr. Moses Cook, from North 57th Street; The Reverend and Mrs. William Taylor, from the North Wilton Street; Miss Janice Brown, North Wilton Street; and Miss Pricilla Davis, from North Wilton Street. I'll give these to the stenographer, Mr. Chairman.
Okay. Can you guys identify yourself for the record. Mr. Solvibile, you go first.
Robert Solvibile, First Deputy Commissioner, Licenses and Inspections.
Otis Haigler, Legislative 92 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Regulatory Affairs Manager, Department of Licenses and Inspections.
Richard Felgus, Administrative Services, Director of Department of Licenses and Inspections.
I have a couple questions on this bill. I guess Mr. Solvibile or either of you three can answer that. One of my main concerns after hearing some of these people, under what conditions now will L&I seal a lot?
Where there is -- along a railroad or where a dangerous condition is presented by the physical characteristics of the lot, not danger necessarily from others entering it. To keep someone from falling off of a large incline, something like that.
Mm-hmm. How many lots did you guys -- how many fences did youse put up last year? Do you have any idea?
The Department of Licenses and Inspections -- maybe one, two at the most, but there was a program that was being run 93 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 by the Managing Director's Office, and I'm not sure of the numbers of that.
You knew about this bill for a while so, hopefully, you have some kind of projected cost if this bill comes law. Do you have any idea?
It's roughly -- the lot Miss Parker talked about, I -- I -- I -- it's 34 foot, front and back, and she paid $600 for it. The City's cost approximately $5 more a foot. Under a contract we presently have, it's now $22 a linear foot to erect a 6-foot fence. And, obviously, the higher you go, the more you add to it. And that's with a gate, that's basically with a normal-size gate for a person on a residential lot to get through. And the cost would be roughly about $800 for the City to do the same lot Miss Parker paid 6 for.
The total amount, to answer your question about the amount of money it would cost if this bill was enacted, it would be approximately $1.5 million a year. That would be based on the number of demolitions that we did -- 94 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025
And that rises, of course, if we do more demolitions, which may be a part of the Mayor's blight program.
And a lot of what's being testified today is not present demolitions but past demolitions.
Mr. Chairman, can I just ask Mr. Felgus one quick question?
Mr. Felgus, you're aware, though -- and I understand what your calculation is based on, you can only go on what you did in the past. You understand that the bill 19 does not require a fence at every lot, and you understand that the L&I commissioner has some level of discretion with regard to the fencing issue?
Based on a variety of circumstances, the plan we use, whether it's 95 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 the plan for the lot, next-door neighbor, nearby neighbor, and a number of other provisions that would not place the Department in an automatic situation. You're aware of that?
Absolutely, and we agree with the changes that you've made to the bill, Councilman.
Moreover, I think Otis Haigler, in his testimony, that we've given copies of to Council, deals with that whole situation. And at this point, with that flexibility that you've now built into the bill, the Department really is not out of -- we don't have any problems with it at this point basically.
Right. I also believe, Councilman, that the two successful programs -- the one program you mentioned on Frankford Avenue in New Kensington and Sister Mary's program around Project H.O.M.E. -- started with a plan and then a follow-through. To just haphazardly put up fences would never work. That was always our objection to it, that there was never a plan to deal with the 96 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 situation of putting up a fence.
While you're saying that, Mr. Solvibile, my next question, is there any common ground in this proposed bill and in your current practice of transferring lots to private owners? Is there something?
No, no. That would be -- I think our goal would be to get it into private hands and, you know, use our lien to get it into private hands, although that could conflict with the Office of Housing if they're trying to get a redevelopment package going. I mean, from L&I's standpoint, as long as it's in private hands and being cared for, it's a win-win situation for us.
And I know you didn't testify yet, but I'm just going to ask you this last question that I have. We did some research with my staff, and in Boston and Milwaukee, vacant lots and vacant buildings are surveyed and cataloged, and they know. I mean, they go to a computer and they could go on Miss Parker's street and they know what's happening there. 97 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Do we have anything like that? And if we don't, why?
We have a list on our contractual services computers where we demolish the buildings that goes back to 1988 of every demolition. Other than that, knowing the location of the lot, they're not cataloged -- we don't know the size, the ownership. We know the ownership only at the time of demolition, not at the time, at the present time.
Could I ask this? Could you possibly get that list? And hopefully it won't be too much a cost to your budget, but could you get that to all the District Councilpeople? 'Cause I want to try to do something personally, and I think Councilman Nutter does.
Actually, I believe the article that Mr. McDonald wrote today about blight is --
Did he give you $10 to mention his name? 'Cause he only game 5.
No, but -- when he doesn't use my name, I'll give him $10. 98 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 (Laughter.)
So, yeah, we can probably get you probably district maps. I mean, I have to go back and talk to our programming people. I might add, that's the only modern type programming and computer we have in the Department. We're still waiting for other goodies for the rest of the Department.
Okay. Do you guys want to testify? Do you have any --
No, no questions. But if we might, as Mr. Haigler's a quick reader, would you mind reading your testimony into the record so that we're clear on where the Administration is?
Yes. Good day, Councilman Mariano and 99 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 members of the committee. I am Otis Haigler Jr., Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Manager for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. Today I am here to provide testimony on Bill 000025 amending the property maintenance code, Section PM 307 and Section PM 308, by requiring the installation of a fence and providing environmental treatment on vacant lots after buildings are demolished, using City funds. As a general proposition, the Administration is opposed to an unqualified obligation to erect a fence anytime a property is demolished with City funds. The Administration, however, believes that the qualifying language giving the Commissioner of Licenses and Inspections the discretion whether to fence or not provides the flexibility needed to address the Administration's concerns. Without the qualifying language contained in Bill No. 000025, the Department projects that it will have to expend $1.5 million annually to enforce the requirements to erect fencing on vacant residential and commercial lots. This figure is based on an analysis of the 100 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 costs associated with providing fencing and the total number of properties which were demolished by Licenses and Inspections during Fiscal Year '99. The fiscal burdens of this bill on the Department's demolition budget will impact on our ability to demolish imminently dangerous and dangerous buildings by diverting funds away from those critical areas to enforce the requirements of this bill. In Fiscal Year'99, the Department spent a total of $14,414,000 for the demolition of imminently dangerous and dangerous structures. This figure also includes providing stucco to the adjoining walls of the remaining properties after the buildings have been demolished. So far, in Fiscal Year 2000, the Department has spent $10,281,000 to abate dangerous and imminently dangerous conditions. We project that without the qualifying language in the bill, the diversion of funds from our demolition budget will equate to 450 properties that have been classified as dangerous, which we will not be able to demolish due to this 101 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 budget constraint. This will severely hamper our efforts to respond to and abate conditions which constitutes threats to public safety and health. The language giving flexibility to the Commissioner will enable the Administration to avoid erecting fences in situations when it makes no sense because of the surrounding neighborhood conditions, planned development activity, or when other plans for maintenance or reuse makes fencing inappropriate and, instead, target fencing resources to those situations where the erection of a fence will curtail criminal activity or when erecting a fence can be made a part of a broader neighborhood preservation strategy. Thank you.
You want to add on the last part of your testimony about the effective date and. . .
Okay. Well, the version of the testimony I have reads: "The Administration supports passage of the bill but asks that the effective date of the bill be July 102 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 1, 2000." Is that accurate?
Councilman Nutter should have been like a special prosecutor.
He was just testing you, Councilman. Otis said, I'm going to see if Nutter's really on his game today.
And he is, Otis. Any questions for that witness? Councilman?
Thank you. Gentlemen, thank you for your testimony. Let me just mention, and I think you're aware, that as a result of a number of conversations not too long with Mayor Street and then subsequent conversations this morning with his Secretary of Strategic Planning and 103 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Initiatives, Miss Joyce Wilkerson, I will be proposing to my colleagues in the public meeting some technical amendments to Bill No. 000025. Those will be the deleting of the word where the sentence reads, "The contract or the department shall provide. . ." The "shall" will be deleted and inserted will be the word "may." Later on, where it reads, "but not limited to community development housing, neighborhood gardening, landscaping, play areas, side yards, or any other uses," we will insert the word or other "legal" uses. And later on, in the next sentence, where it talks about "a fence or other protective device is unnecessary," that word will be stricken, and the word "necessary" will be inserted. And then "based on a planned reuse of a vacant lot," the additional language is "by an abutting or nearby property owner, community development corporation, community-based or block organization." And just one typo issue -- "or other unique circumstances," delete the comma and insert a semicolon. 104 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Gentlemen, I am under the impression, based on your earlier conversations, that the Department, with those proposed amendments, maintains its support for the bill?
I have another meeting. Could I be recorded as voting aye on Bill 000025.
I have a question 105 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 for L&I. I just want to make sure we're all on the same page when it comes to exactly the configuration of how we're going to fence lots. You heard testimony earlier where one of the gentleman indicated that they should be fenced on all four sides, including the perimeter wall of the property adjacent to the vacant lot. In the legislation, is there specifics on exactly, are we just fencing each end, are we going to run the fence the length of the property? Because, again, I've heard the community say that they want fencing on all four sides of the lot. Now, that could change the whole deal.
That has to be a corner lot. I mean, you would not put fencing along a wall, and that if the front and the back of the lot are fenced, the lot is protected. So a fence to run along a wall makes absolutely no sense.
Well, Councilman, I think they meant a corner property, probably a 106 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 corner property was --
Well, as long as we understand that we're not talking about fences running down just to protect the stucco wall.
Councilman, I think the issue with the stucco wall was primarily raised by people that you can access the lot either from the front or the back, and the kids stand on the lot and, therefore, bounce the ball up against the wall. But if you can't access the lot primarily from the front or back, the remaining houses usually protect the lot on the sides.
But in the testimony here, it was not specific to corner lots. I listened very carefully. The person did indicate that the desirable fencing was all four sides, and I just wanted to make sure for the record that we're only talking about, other than a corner lot, a fence at the each end of the lot.
The thing I think that's important in this bill and for anyone is that the only thing that's going to work is if there's a plan within that block, within that community as to how they're going to deal with it. Otherwise, no matter what we put there will fail, period.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Solvibile, I have a question about the procurement process. What's the current procurement process for contractors to place fences up?
The City of Philadelphia bids a requirements contract through Procurement that would handle recreation and any fence that the City wants to erect, and we latch on to that. And there's one contractor that basically is awarded that contract through Procurement, where L&I, if we were to put $100,000 108 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 worth of fencing up or one fence, we would get a purchase order based upon that requirement, a citywide requirements contract.
So, conceivably, the individuals putting up the fence around a rec center is the same entity that will put up a fence on a corner lot?
Correct, correct. And they do build in like over so many linear feet. It's a linear foot bid -- well, actually, a square foot bid by the height and the length, that they do build in like over so many linear feet, it becomes less the more you go.
So in that particular process, it normally requires a larger contractor be the respondent? Is that the case, have you found that to be the case?
I -- I don't know how large the -- how big this contractor is. He's been doing it for the last two or three years. But, yes, there's different ways they could do it. They could divide the City, quarter it up east and west of Broad. We have a stucco contract, a citywide requirement for stuccoing, 109 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 and we divide the City in half, east and west of Broad.
So could we, say, for instance, have one of the local CDCs that are working on new housing developments, could we have the CDC actually bid on the procurement process?
That probably could be worked out with Secretary Wilkerson. I'm sure that we could devise a method of bidding that would more suit the intent that Council has in fencing and how they would be erected.
All right. Let me ask you this: Is it more cost effective, do you think, to do the larger contract? 'Cause I hear that from time to time when the Recreation Department, they do lights, they bid out all of the lights for all of the --
I can only say this, that Miss Parker saved $5 a linear foot; the City would have paid for the fence that she has. 22 I'm assuming it's a six-foot fence. And she told Councilman Nutter that it was $600 and approximately 17 feet wide. So that's 34 foot of fencing with a gate -- I'm assuming she has a 110 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 gate. And that comes to 17.50 a foot. We did that and that's why I asked how long the fence was. And the City, for the same fence, would have paid $22 a linear foot.
So if we induce more competition, then we might get a better price.
Either that or we let Miss Parker do the fencing for the City. Miss Parker, do you want to be the fence czar? (Laughter.)
She's a tough negotiator, she's going to get us a good price.
Actually one of the ladies that testified, Miss Jenkins, I think she was the last lady to testify on the left, she works in Licenses and Inspections in our fiscal office and authorizes payments to fencing contractors. So you realize how that really must hurt her every day to, you know --
All right, all right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 111 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025
Any other questions for any of these witnesses? (No further questions.)
I just want to note for the record, Mr. Chairman, I want to recognize Miss Inez Parker, who is here with us, but she's going to -- is it my understanding you're going to send some testimony in later or. . .
When I received the material, I didn't know I was supposed to come.
You might as well testify since you're here, Miss Parker.
When I received the material, I didn't know that I was supposed to say anything, and I think Councilman Nutter knows that I'm very concerned about Haverford Avenue, which is considered a State highway, and that's what the sign says. And our block is becoming very poorly taken care of as well as the blocks from 60TH and 112 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Haverford to 54th and Haverford because a lot of the houses, they're knocking them down and we have vacant lots, and nothing is being done. I was so happy for our mayor when he picked up some of the abandoned cars that we have been calling about for seven months, and they just picked them up two weeks ago, but we have a lot of aged persons living in our block. We no longer have a lot of homeowners, and a lot of people are purchasing the properties and we have a lot of vacant landlords. So the block is really going down. I have pictures that I have taken. I wrote the letter, but I hadn't sent it, but I will send it today and the pictures to Mr. Nutter and Mr. Wadell (ph.), okay?
Thank you, ma'am. It looks like no one else is here to testify, so that will be the end of the testimony on Bill 25. We're going to go into Bill 61. Mr. Allen, could you read Bill 61.
An ordinance amending Title 113 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000061 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Regulation of Individual Conduct and Activity," requiring the retention of video surveillance tapes in commercial businesses for 30 days after use of those tapes, and regulating the quality of those tapes.
And, Fernando, 9 you're here from the Administration? 10 Now, before we start, let me just say that this was my bill and, you know, to cut to the chase, the reason that we came up with this bill 13 was for the late Russell Byers from the Daily News, and when Mr. Byers was murdered, the tape wasn't very conclusive. I mean, I'm not an expert on that fact, but this pretty much simplifies that, we think.
I can appreciate it, Mr. Chairman. My name is Fernando Gallard. I'm the Acting Director of the Mayor's Business Action Team. Again, I appreciate your point because I actually live in the same block that that incident happened, so I can really appreciate it. I'm going to be very brief. If I may 114 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000061 read the statement at this point. Good afternoon, Committee Chairman Mariano and members of City Council, my name is Fernando Gallard, and I currently serve as Acting Director of the Mayor's Business Action Team. Thank you for the opportunity to testify Bill 8 000061, covering the use of surveillance tapes in commercial businesses. We have reviewed the bill and the regulations, and the Administration and the Department of Commerce have no objection to Bill 13 000061, as it stands.
Thank you. Any questions for this witness? I have one question I think I wrote down before. No, that's fine, no problem. Thank you.
Seeing none, we will go right into the public meeting. We will 115 4/25/00 L&I - Public Meeting close the public hearing and go into the public meeting. First I need a motion to report out Bill 25.
Mr. Chairman, I need to move the amendments on first. 8
Mr. Chairman, I 10 move that Bill No. 25 be amended in Section PM 11 307.6 in the following manner: 12 In the section reading "When the 13 Department proceeds to demolish any structure 14 whether by contract or by its own employees, the 15 contract or the Department" -- strike the word 16 "shall" and insert the word "may" "provide for a 17 fence or other protective devices in the 18 application of environmentally safe treatments to 19 control vegetative overgrowth by the demolition 20 contractor or by Department employees in order to 21 secure the perimeter of the vacant lot, protect 22 the health, safety, and welfare of the community, 23 prevent overgrowth, and deter illegal dumping of 24 trash and debris." 25 Later on, the same section reads, "but 116 4/25/00 L&I - Public Meeting not limited to community development housing, neighborhood gardening, landscaping, play areas, side yards, or any other. . ." insert the word "legal" "uses. Next sentence. "The Commissioner shall have the discretion to determine whether a fence or other protective device is. . ." Strike the word "unnecessary" and insert the word "necessary" "based on a planned reuse of the vacant lot" -- new language "by an abutting or nearby property owner, community development corporation, community-based or block organization;". Continuing on in that sentence "or other unique circumstance." Delete the comma and insert a semicolon. The same amendments should be made in the same locations in Section PM-308.4. And, lastly, a new Section 2 should be added, which should read: "This ordinance shall take effect on July 1, 2000." Those are the amendments to Bill No. 23 25, Mr. Chairman, and I move the adoption of those amendments.
We have moved the 117 4/25/00 L&I - Public Meeting amendment. And do we have a second? (Duly seconded.)
Okay. All those in favor of the amendment, aye? The amendment passes. So now the motion to report out Bill 8 25, as amended.
Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill 25, as amended, be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation.
Councilman Rizzo seconded it. All those in favor, aye? Okay, so it passes.
I need a motion to request a suspension of rules to allow for the first reading of Bill 25, as amended, on the 118 4/25/00 L&I - Public Meeting first-consideration calendar on April 27, 2000. Do I have that motion, Councilman Nutter?
Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 25, as amended, with a favorable recommendation and a further recommendation that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session. (Duly seconded.)
A second by Councilman Clarke. All those in favor, aye? Okay, then it passes. Now we go to Bill 61. I need a motion to report out Bill 61 with a positive recommendation. Councilman Nutter?
Yes. Mr. Chairman, I move that Bill No. 61 be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation. Do you want a suspension?
All right. And a further recommendation that rules of Council be 119 4/25/00 L&I - Public Meeting suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session.
All those in favor of that, aye? Okay nobody's opposed. That's it. Then this closes the public meeting. Do we have anything else? Oh, I'm sorry. There's one thing I forgot. Bills 102, 103 and 104 are being held at the request of the sponsor. This closes the public hearing. Oh, I need a motion to hold those bills?
I make a motion that those bills -- 000102, 000103 and 000104 -- be held at the request of the sponsor. (Duly seconded.)
A second is heard. All those in favor, aye? Okay, that's it. And we can close the public hearing. Thank you. 120 4/25/00 L&I - Public Meeting (Adjourned at 12:12 p.m.) - - - 121 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, April 25, 2000, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS BILL NO.'S 000025, 000061 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter