COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON LICENSES & INSPECTIONS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania April 25, 2000 10:15 a.m. - - - BILL 000025 - Amending Title 4 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction Occupancy Code," by amending subcode PM Philadelphia, the Philadelphia Property Maintenance Code, by amending Section PM 307, entitled "Unsafe and Unfit Structures and Equipment," and Section PM 308, entitled "Imminently Dangerous Structures," by providing for the installation of a fence or other protective devices and other related measures after demolition of the structure, under certain terms and conditions. BILL 000061 - Amending Title 10 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Regulation of Individual Conduct and Activity," requiring the retention of video surveillance tapes in commercial businesses for 30 days after use of those tapes, and regulating the quality of those tapes (Bills 000102, 000103, 000104 held at request of sponsor.) PRESENT: COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO, Chair COUNCILMAN DARRELL CLARKE, Vice Chair COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL WILLIAMS BROWN COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 /00 L&I COMMITTEE I N D E X Bill 000025 Blaine Bonham, Executive Vice President. . . . Pennsylvania Horticultural Society Sister Mary Scullion, Executive Director . . . 20 Project H.O.M.E. Helen Brown, Project H.O.M.E. . . . . . . . . 21 Chris Whaley, Project H.O.M.E. . . . . . . . . 21 Marta A. Brooks, Esquire, Coordinator. . . . . 28 Homeowners Assistance Project, Senior Citizen Judicare Project Gray Smith, Urban Planner. . . . . . . . . . . 28 Community Representatives James Grant. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 Ruth Bazemore. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51 Sharon Ball. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 Grace Haywood. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 Elizabeth Parker . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 62 Madeline Dunn. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74 Jean Trice . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76 Carly Johnson. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 78 Ethel Jenkins. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79 Wayne Porter, Parkside Association . . . . . . 81 Janice Fields. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 87 Inez Parker. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 108 Department of Licenses and Inspections Robert Solvibile, First Deputy Commissioner. . 91 Otis Haigler, Legislative Regulatory Affairs 91 Manager Richard Felgus, Administrative Services Dir. 92 3 /00 L&I COMMITTEE (Index, cont'd.) Attached Written Testimony in Support of 000025: Gloria Guard, Executive Director, People's Emergency Center John Quillen, 1237 North Redfield Street Vicky Franks, 1719 North 54th Street Elizabeth Griffin, 1712 North Ruby Street Doris Hinton, 1451 North 57th Street Helen Leel, 1200 Block, North St. Bernard Street Adeline Dorsey, 5629 Berks Street Elizabeth Wright, 1711 North 54th Street Eileen O. Burke, 426 North 60th Street Moses Cook, 1455 North 57th Street Rev. & Mrs. William E. Taylor, 1667 N. Wilton St. Janice Brown, 1674 North Wilton Street Pricilla Davis, 1668 North Wilton Street Bill 0000061 Fernando Gallard, Acting Director. . . . . . 111 Mayor's Business Action Team 4 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 P R O C E E D I N G S
Hello. We would like to bring this public meeting of the Committee on Licenses and Inspections to order -- now that Councilman Rizzo finally showed up. That's R-I-Z-Z-O, Rizzo. Oh, sorry, sorry, Frank. When you say "Rizzo," I just get crazy, I'm sorry. Okay, the first bill will be Bill No. 10 000025. Do you want to read the -- Mr. Allen, read that bill, please.
An ordinance amending Title 4 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "The Philadelphia Building Construction Occupancy Code," by amending subcode PM Philadelphia, the Philadelphia Property Maintenance Code, by amending Section PM 307, entitled "Unsafe and Unfit Structures and Equipment," and Section PM 308, entitled "Imminently Dangerous Structures," by providing for the installation of a fence or other protective devices and other related measures after demolition of the structure, under certain terms and conditions.
How come the L&I guys are up here, we didn't call you yet. I want 5 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Otis -- I want Blaine Bonham, the Executive Vice President of the Philadelphia Horticultural Society. See, you guys are getting paid, sit there and enjoy it. And let the people that here come up 'cause they're good citizens like us. Solvibile loves me. Now he's looking to not clean and seal five houses for every bad word I said in my district. (Laughter.) (Witnesses come forward.)
I'm Blaine Bonham, Executive Director of the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society and Head of the Philadelphia Green Program. Good morning, Councilman Mariano and members of the L&I Committee. I want to commend Councilman Nutter and the 13 other Councilmembers who have endorsed this proposed bill for raising the critical issue of the problem of vacant land that plagues City, from West Philadelphia to North 6 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 to South Philadelphia now and in some of the bordering neighborhoods, even Oak Lane, Southwest Philadelphia, Cobbs Creek. I think the core issue that this proposed bill tries to address is the lack of a comprehensive overall City policy and set of strategies for the maintenance and management of vacant lots and their precursors, abandoned buildings. As you know, for the last years, 11 through Philadelphia Green, we've been working 12 first with block groups and then with 13 neighborhoods organizations and an increasing the 14 number of community development organizations to 15 help them deal with the terrible blight that 16 vacant lands and derelict buildings have on 17 neighborhoods. 18 We've just completed a study, which I 19 believe all of you have a copy, and it was funded 20 by the William Penn Foundation, and it looks at a 21 maintenance management approach to the 30,900 22 vacant lots and the soon-to-be 24,000 long-term 23 vacant structures that will become vacant lots. 24 The issue, I know we're all very aware 25 of it. They drain the City's budget by lowering 7 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 the surrounding property values and averting scarce City resources for cleaning that is ineffective over the long run. The lots are seen as an obstacle to the City's progress. And they also -- as pressure mounts to contain suburban sprawl, by redirecting development inward, addressing vacant lots really sets a tone for the City for its future development in coming decades. Right now, as you know, there are 11 separate departments that address vacant land 12 issues, but there's no one coordinating entity 13 responsible, nor a coordinating policy that brings 14 this all together. 15 To date, in the last several decades, the City's current approach to vacant land is reactive, as we know. When that problem call comes in, L&I needs to respond to it intermittent because there's no policy to go back and clean lots, or they have to be cleaned because the problem reoccurs. And, of course, it's fragmented among several different departments. This isn't for a lack of will by the L&I department; it really is a systemic problem with the City administration and because no new systems have 8 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 been developed to deal with it in a comprehensive manner. The set of recommendations that we put forth are based on four assumptions: The City must deal with vacant lots in a comprehensive manner by cleaning, maintaining, and acquiring all vacant lots. And, in addition, the City's responsibility to ensure the public health, safety and welfare means that for practical purposes, it already owns the problem. And so, therefore, the City really needs to own the lots and take care of them to ensure the future of the neighborhoods. Secondly, the process by which the City acquires vacant lots and disburses them to private owners is so complex and fragmented as to hinder development. And to be effective, the process needs to be simplified. Thirdly, since the City does not have enough money to redevelop all of the lots, the private market must be allowed to acquire and reuse land whenever possible, while City resources are safe for strategic interventions. So we really need to make it easy for the private 9 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 sector. And, fourth, just as unmanaged vacant land lowers the property values and tax receipts, cleaning and maintaining the land will stabilize and raise property values and, therefore, raise tax receipts.
The proposed system of management really looks at vacant lots not as liability but as an asset for the neighborhoods and proposes a comprehensive strategic and ongoing process whereby: one comprehensive entity in the City manages all of the vacant land and has title to it; is strategic, in that all of the lots are cleaned maintained, acquired, and transferred on a regular basis; and that every vacant lot is maintained until an end use is found. The goals here are to alleviate the negative impact of vacant lots by ensuring that every vacant lot remains clean and that to encourage reuse, redevelopment, and stewardship of vacant land by making it easier for individuals and businesses to acquire it. The primary functions of this Office of Vacant Land Management would be to hold title, and 10 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 as neighborhoods come up with plans and the City Planning Commission comes up with plans to redevelop the land, to transfer it to those entities. Therefore, by acting strategically, the City can ensure that all vacant lots in Philadelphia's neighborhoods are cleaned within three years of implementing a program, and it could facilitate the reuse of vacant lots by acquiring all existing vanity lots over the coming nine years. You may have seen the statistics. 6 million over the next years on trying to maintain vacant 16 lots, with nothing to show for it because there's 17 no comprehensive system. By investing the money 18 up front, and the Administration proposes a bond 19 issue, the problem can be addressed rapidly, and 20 the City will accrue some tax benefits by increasing the property values of surrounding properties and also more readily conveying the lands to new uses. I think that the elements of the bill 25 that is proposed certainly are applicable to 11 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 certain situations and really need to be looked at for the situations that they apply to. I recently served as co-chair of the Blight Elimination Subcommittee of the Mayor's Transition Team, and we put these recommendation into the report, and I'm encouraged by the Administration's eagerness to tackle the problem and consider significant policy and systems changes in raising the substantial amounts of dollars through a bond issue to begin to transform this liability into an asset. I think that this bill is a key element to a comprehensive plan, and I really implore the elected officials and the Administration to work together to create a system that will benefit Philadelphia's neighborhoods. I have with me -- I know you all sent a copy of the vacant lands study and recommendations, and I do have extra copies for you if you'd like and also a summary paper that updates the vacant land management study. PHS and it's Philadelphia Green Program stands ready to work with the City and the neighborhoods to make this a very effective policy and turn around the City's neighborhoods. 12 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bonham. Let me just say -- I was remittent (sic). I was so excited to be the new chair of L&I, I forgot to introduce the people, the members of the Committee. My left, and not political left, is the vice chairman, my cousin Darrell Clarke.
To his left and maybe a little to my left, I'm not sure, is Councilman-at-large Ortiz, Councilman Rizzo, Councilman Michael Nutter, and the always beautiful and effervescent -- making us homely-looking group of guys looking pretty good today -- Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown. Thank you. This is like a wrestling match, we'll have nicknames next time. Any questions from members of the committee of this -- Councilman Clarke?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Mr. Bonham. Mr. Bonham, can you -- I had recently 13 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 had an opportunity to look at some of the organizations throughout the City of Philadelphia and their methods of vacant land treatment and particularly up in the Kensington area, Mr. Carpenter. Can you speak a little bit to the effectiveness of that program and the community participation.
Yeah. It was a project that was funded by the Office of Housing and Community Development, and we got additional funding -- both PHS did and New Kensington CDC -- from the William Penn Foundation to try an experiment of neighborhood-based vacant land management. We had proposed this in a 1995 study that we completed that looked at 14 cities like Philadelphia around the Northeast and Midwest, and New Kensington had identified in their New Kensington 2000 Strategic Plan that they completed in 1995 the issue of vacant land. And they embraced devoting resources and management capabilities to addressing vacant land because they felt that it was a key problem that the neighborhoods faced. And in addressing this, they 14 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 would substantially begin to turn around the neighborhood. Over the last four years, of the 1100 vacant lots that were in that neighborhood, they have begun to manage, or transferred through side yards, 540 of them. Several City departments were very cooperative. It's important to know that this is -- this was done without -- not in the context of an overall City policy or of directed resources but through the enthusiastic support of L&I and Streets, although they had limits as to what they could devote to this. And I think in talking to the CDC Director -- first John Carpenter and now Sandy Saltzman (ph.) -- and talking to the residents, the effect that this has had on the neighborhood has been tremendous. Not only does the CDC find that -- as Sandy says, it has brought out people to be concerned about their neighborhood and participate in a way that had never happened before. One of their strategic initiatives was to clean up Frankford Avenue, which was the spine running through the community, and there was 15 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 nothing but vacant lot after vacant lot of piled-high trash. If you drive up Frankford Avenue now, you won't find that anymore; you find maintained lots, some of the them gardens, but many of them grass areas that are mowed by the New Kensington CDC. They bought a tractor, they bought a front-end loader, they equipped themselves to do this, they planted trees around the perimeter of the lot to prevent short-term dumping. Not one tree has been knocked over, and they --
So you're saying that in a number of instances, there was not fencing or just --
The only places they were fencing was where community gardens were developed, where they didn't want dogs or just to define the space.
They didn't want people to take those tomatoes, right?
Right. But for the basic maintained vacant lot that is now just a sort of green lawn, there weren't fences put around. In a couple place there were bollards put. In most 16 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 places, there were trees that were put on the perimeter. There's a few where there's nothing. But while New Kensington has the staff and the equipment to mow it, they also rely on the neighborhoods residents to pick off the trash before they do that, so it's really a cooperative effort.
All right. So it had more to do with the community participation than anything else, regardless of what was --
That's key, it's key. But I think what is an important thing to note here is that community residents themselves can't take care of the vast amount of vacant land just by their own volunteer efforts; it's overwhelming. And that's where the City has to embrace the problem and commit to taking care of it. And in cases where they can delegate and even use the community groups as subcontractors to take care of it, where at a local level, neighborhoods then can begin to imagine what to do with these lots -- either as an interim basis or a long-term basis.
In your blight 17 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 committee, have there been any discussions about a particular division within that department whose sole responsibility is to deal with community organizations at that level? Or have you not gotten into that level of detail yet?
What we proposed was this Office of Vacant Land Management, which would do the mechanics of cleaning, acquiring, holding title, and dispensing when other agencies, or whatever, needed the land, or private individuals. As far as working with community groups, that wasn't built into that. We have a lot of experience and developed processes in working with community groups in developing management structures, and that's something that we would like to work with the City to do with the community groups that participate.
Any other questions from members of the committee for this witness? Councilman Nutter.
Thank you. 18 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Mr. Bonham, let me first say thank you for your testimony. And as Councilman Clarke mentioned, I not too long ago went on a tour of the Kensington area with John Carpenter and saw the work that had been done by New Kensington, and quite honestly, the Councilman had had some conversation with me about this. It was an enlightening and eye-opening experience. It's literally on the other side of the City from where I represent, in West Philadelphia and North Philadelphia and the 21st Ward. And that was, quite honestly, why there's now language in the bill that talks about not only fences but other protective devices. I've seen the light, I guess a little bit, that every neighborhood doesn't necessarily want the same kind of treatment or need the same kind of treatment. So where there is the opportunity for either discretion or working with the next-door neighbor or community-based organization, I think that that is a good thing for those neighborhoods. And so in places -- and we'll hear testimony from some citizens -- where they would 19 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 like to have fences, we should have that flexibility, and in other places, be able to do other things. But I think, as your testimony indicates, the larger issue here is, how do we maintain these lots and keep track of them and make sure that they're being maintained either by the individual or a community-based organization. But I appreciate the testimony that you've shared with us, and I just wanted to make the comments about why we tried to create the flexibility to have a number of other mechanisms to address this issue.
And the bill raises a very critical aspect of the whole process. And while working with neighborhoods and planning is done on how to deal with vacant lots and take down buildings, how to protect them is going to be a key issue.
But it needs to be 20 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 considered. It's very critical and vital.
Thank you, Mr. Bonham. As Vice Chair for my cousin, I'm now going to ask if there are any other questions by members of the committee? (No further questions.)
The next group is Sister Mary Scullion. Can we let her come. She's religious and we separate church and state, and she happened to go to St. Martin of Tours, so. . . Did she turn red yet? Come on, Sister, be embarrassed. If she starts giggling, we'll never get out of here. Come on Sister, giggle. I can never make nuns life -- I've been trying my whole life. (Witnesses come forward).
Please state your name for the record. SISTER SCULLION: My name is Sister 21 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Mary Scullion.
I'm Chris Whaley. SISTER SCULLION: We're all from Project H.O.M.E. And, you know, we're really grateful to be here and we're really grateful for Councilman Nutter for introducing this legislation and for Councilman Mariano and Councilman Clarke and all the other Councilpeople for supporting it because we think it's a very important piece of legislation right now that affects our neighborhood. And we've been to New Kensington and we think the work that they've done there is really terrific, and that's one of the things that we hope to replicate in north central Philadelphia, where we are. Project H.O.M.E., as most of you probably know, works with men and women that are homeless. We work in partnership with them to break the cycle of homelessness, but in the past five years, we've partnered in the low-come north central Philadelphia neighborhood to prevent homelessness from occurring through community revitalization. And that's why we're here today. 22 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 So Chris Whaley is going to begin this testimony.
Good morning. The mission of Project H.O.M.E. is to empower persons to break the cycle of homelessness and poverty, to address the structural causes of poverty, and to enable all of us to attain our fullest potential. We achieve this mission through the continuum of care comprised of street outreach, a range of supportive housing facilities, and complements of services, including health care, education and employment. However, we also operate a community development corporation in north central Philadelphia which administers community revitalization programs, including affordable housing development, employment training, and opportunities, adult and youth education, health care, and environmental enhancement. We have been working for five years to improve this neighborhood block by block and often house by house. As part of our efforts, we are constantly cleaning up empty lots in our neighborhood. When we can, we try to develop 23 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 these lots, and we have successfully turned six of them into wonderful community gardens that are maintained by neighbors. But all too often, this has become the exception. Often these lots just sit and collect trash. They become dumping grounds, they invite litter and trash. These lots can bring the entire neighborhood down. It is essential that these empty lots are fenced and not allowed to diminish the overall stability of a neighborhood. When block has empty lots covered with debris, it contributes to the feeling that no one cares about the neighborhood. Fencing is one of the most requested services in our neighborhoods. Darrell knows that -- we call you all the time.
We support this bill 19 because it would take a small but important step towards reversing the cycle. At least if the City had to fence a lot after it demolishes a building, the fencing would discourage dumping. Also, by controlling the weeds, the lots would look better. But most important, it would send a message that the government does care about how 24 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 things look and about the quality of life in our neighborhoods. Everyone says that we need to improve the quality of life in neighborhoods, and this law would be another necessary step forward in our city to achieving this most worthy goal. Again, thank you for allowing us to testify, and we encourage all of the members of City Council to support this important bill. Thank you .
Identify yourself, identify yourself for the record, I'm sorry.
Helen Brown. When the fences are done, I recommend that they be painted; that way, they won't be stolen.
Any questions from members of the committee for these witnesses? Councilman Nutter?
I don't have any issue with the painting, the painting of the 25 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 fences, but is there something about the fences being painted that --
I've noticed in our neighborhood that just when the regular cyclone fences have been put up on lots, they have been taken.
So if the fences are painted, they have no value to anyone else.
Councilman Clarke just told me salvers don't want 'em with paint.
What do you think he was before he was the Councilman?
She's known me for a long time, don't ask her that question, please.
Thank you. Any other questions? SISTER SCULLION: The only other question is that all of the lots that we've done in the past five years, when we've done them and we've worked with the neighborhood and there was some their support for the neighbors to maintain them -- and it's not a lot of support -- all those gardens look fabulous still. The neighborhood has really gotten better and better as we've done blocks in a whole way and gotten the neighbors involved and had the neighbors maintain and watch 27 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 them. It's really been a worth while investment. To get a fence, it costs us about $1500, but it's really done a lot and gone a long way in maintaining the overall stability and look and feel of the whole neighborhood. So we're really excited about this legislation and we're really, you know, willing to work with all of the Councilpeople, you know, in order to make it a reality in any way we can.
And may I just add, please, that when I came here in 1993, most of the blocks -- Darrell knows where we're from, the Strawberry Mansion area -- most of the blocks were intact. And now almost every block has two or three, -- you know, formerly where homes stood and there were big gaping holes. It's also a very dangerous situation sometimes, you know, when people of the criminal element come into your neighborhood. Well, they know how to run around and get around and scoot around and do all those types of things, and our children and our seniors, you know, it's affected them greatly as well. And, you know, some of those lots go all the way back, and then they're 28 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 in alleys and that sort of thing. So I think that, you know, a bigger picture should be just not just the beautification but the safety as well and the dumping, the dumping, the dumping.
Thank you. Any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)
Seeing none, the next group of witnesses, you guys want to come up now?
I'm Marta Brooks, and I'm a staff attorney with the Senior Citizens Judicare Project.
I'm Gray Smith. I'm an architect and urban planner, and I work with the Judicare folks in a number of legal cases 29 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 involving this issue.
And I have some copies of my testimony, and I'll keep it extremely brief.
Go ahead, you could start while he's handing that out.
Okay. I actually coordinate the Homeowners Assistance Program at Judicare. And Judicare, very briefly, as I'm sure a lot or all of you know, is a legal services organization that represents low-income, elderly residents of Philadelphia -- those are people 60 and older. We assist with things like financial exploitation, physical abuse, landlord-tenant problems, contractor fraud, and most importantly, to what I'm talking about today, is representing people who have suffered property damage as a result of demolition work. I believe in all of the cases, it's City-contracted demolition work. We have been around since 1978. Briefly, our typical client is an African-American woman in her seventies, with an income of 6 and $700 per month. She is often 30 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 helping to support an extended family like grandchildren and great-grandchildren. A lot of our clients are homeowners. And in the cases where I have personally represented our clients regarding property damage caused by City demolition, although they may have multiple problems, the first thing on their mind is having the vacant lot fenced in, and that's always because they will see squatters in the vacant lot, there can be vandalism, graffiti, that kind of thing. And in a few cases, there was what the senior believed to be drug use in the vacant lot. So we are very much in support of having Title 4 amended to include fencing. In the past, what we've had to do is either advise the client to put in the fence themselves, which, quite frankly, practically speaking, was not realistic, with the income they have. So it was, you know, sort of advising them to do something that, unfortunately, we knew they couldn't afford to do. And then more recently, we had the help of Councilman Kenney's office, which, we, along with our clients, were very grateful for, in that he would make sure that fences were 31 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 put in for our clients, and that was just wonderful. But what we'd really like to see is a law on the books that's going to ensure that in those cases where fences is needed -- and I realize thee may be exceptions -- that that fencing is available and that it's funded sufficiently so that we can get those fences up efficiently and really set the minds at ease of many of our elderly homeowners. We have so many in this city.
Thank you. I appreciate the support that you give the residents of the City of Philadelphia. I just have a question on what you said. That advice that you gave the resident to put a fence up, even though they weren't going to do that, was that proper, is that legal for a resident to fence in a lot that doesn't belong to them?
I think if they got the 32 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 appropriate permit, they could do it, but, you know, realistically, it didn't happen, the lots remained empty, they couldn't do it.
I understand that, but just the concept if someone had the money, if they had a lot in their community, I don't believe that they could even get a permit since it's not their property.
Well, since we have the reigning minds of L&I here, Mr. Solvibile, could you come up here and maybe help us with that answer. Of course, not a legal opinion 'cause I know you're not an attorney, but through all your years of expertise at L&I, maybe you could help Councilman Rizzo with that question. (Mr. Solvibile comes forward.)
Good morning. My name is Robert Solvibile, First Deputy Commissioner, Licenses and Inspections. For all practical matters, you cannot give someone the permission to fence something on someone else's property, but a lot of these lots 33 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 are also City-owned properties, so in that case -- you know, I personally -- I guess I should never --
Nobody's going to jail for doing this, though, right?
Exactly. And the only thing they're doing is improving the owner's property, so I personally have no problem with it, if it gives people a level of confidence, if they want to fence, and if they're not damaging the property.
And in the case that was laid out, Deputy Commissioner Solvibile, I didn't get the impression from Miss Brooks that the person had necessarily asked the government for permission. It seemed to me, quite honestly, that they were trying to take a step to first protect themselves, possibly protect the rest of the neighborhood, and one of the reasons we're here today is to make sure that people are not in that particular situation. We have folks who either have not been fortunate enough to get a fence, or we'll here testimony later on today where someone did, in 34 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 fact, put a fence on a lot that's not their property but is a dangerous situation. And we can sit around and debate whether that's appropriate or not, but under the circumstances, it's a public health and safety issue, and people are going to be safe, and they're going to take at times extraordinary measures to make sure that they're safe and not be subject to, you know, what the government is doing or not doing.
And if I could just mention that we always talk to our clients. They were very well aware that it wasn't their property in the sense that so often the problem was that the people were deceased, and it was really owned by an estate that hadn't been taking care of it from years ago, and we always informed 18 Councilman Kenney's office of the information we 19 were able to obtain of the last owner in case they 20 could be billed or whatever the situation might be.
But we were always forthright with our clients about the fact that -- I mean, quite frankly, we didn't have a solution 35 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 for that.
And all we could do is give them a little practical information.
Well, with a little luck, hopefully after today, you won't have to tell clients to do that anymore.
Thank you, Councilman. Councilman Clarke, do you have a comment?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to respond to that issue. About a year and a half ago, then-Council President Street introduced a bill that was passed by the Council at the last session. It's called the "Vacant Lot Nuisance Abatement Bill." We had actually been working with L&I on that, and my understanding is that an individual or an entity had the ability to enter into a license agreement with the Department of L&I to abate the nuisance, i.e., putting a fence up, and they actually signed an agreement as an abator and an agent for the 36 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 City of Philadelphia. So in that instance, you can legally enter onto a private property and put a fence up.
In every case that I was involved with, L&I ended up putting up the fence, so it was with the City's blessing, so to speak.
I -- not to correct anybody, but I believe it was not L&I but a fencing program --
-- that was managed then in the Managing Director's Office but no 15 longer. It is now in L&I, but it then was in the Managing Director's Office.
I just assumed that because we were dealing with Councilman Kenney at the time.
Any other questions for this witness? Councilman Clarke, I don't know how I forgot you -- or Brown, Reynolds-Brown.
Good morning. I know of the good work of Judicare. I 37 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 was particularly struck by your opening comment where you end up defending, supporting your client because of damage that, I am sure, unintentionally has been completed by the City. So what kinds of provisions are in place to minimize those circumstances particularly as we look to the upcoming anticipated blight program?
Well, yeah, actually Gray Smith and our office are both very interested in that issue. What happens is that the City will contract with private contractors to do the work. The specifications don't -- in our mind don't have all of the proper requirements, so that when we go and contact the contractor, the contractor can say, Well, that's not called for in the contract. And technically, that's -- they have a point there. And what we have had to do in certain cases is actually bring a lawsuit against the City and the individual contractor. Every case has been settled. We are not litigious, we are not look to go bring a lawsuit.
In fact, in all of those 38 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 cases. We negotiated for such a long time and finally, only at the end, when we really were getting nowhere, did we bring the actual action. And so, really, we think it's a problem with the regulations set up at L&I that, you know, cornices can be left broken off, or there can be improper fill put in the vacant lot, and there's really no oversight -- or I shouldn't say "no 10 oversight." There isn't sufficient oversight and things could be left damaged that, quite, frankly, the -- you know, a person who was paid for this work themselves would never put up with. In our case, our clients are just the innocent victims. They're living next door to a property that had to be demolished because someone else was not taking care of it -- whether it's because they were dead for ten years or because the person that owns the property can no longer afford to take care of it, whatever the issue may be. But our client is victimized in the sense that they're left now with this vacant lot that's unfenced and there's actual damage to their property. And I would say that we get a couple of 39 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 those cases per year. It's not like they're flowing in constantly, but each year, we get several. And so that has been an issue for us and something that we had started to talk to Councilman Kenney's office about.
Okay. So even with the couple, it's still considered a headache. So let me redirect the question to the City: What kinds of provisions have you looked to put in place to minimize and reduce 2 to 1 or 0? because in the end, it's the senior citizens who have limited resources and it becomes a severe headache for them.
The City -- to start at the beginning, most of the buildings, as was stated, are abandoned by the owner. I called them mom-and-pop-type buildings, where the parents own the building, taxes haven't been paid for ten years, and a lot of 'em are long-term abandonment, in excess of ten years. And when we get to them, they're in a state of collapse.
A building in a state of collapse is a lot harder to tear down than a 40 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 building that's in sound condition. A lot of times -- and not every case -- some of the damage was done prior, which was unseen by water, long-term water leakage. As to the fill, in the last three years, the City has taken on a task of every lot, before payment is approved, every demolition, before we approve payment, has test pits -- no 10 exceptions, every lot. And not one test pit, but at least more than two.
Test pits, where we make the contractor bring the machine and show us the fill that's there.
And we're looking for -- brick is allowed, dirt, and you cannot have metals or wood in the hole. And I think that some of the contention from Mr. Gray may be that the brick is a problem, I'm not sure, but that brick is allowable in the demolition, as long as there's no wood. As to the contractor causing damage, 41 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 the City has an insurance policy that co-names the City. For a contractor to do work for the City, they must have a insurance policy in force that co-names the City, and we check it several times a year to make sure that, you know, the due dates are being met by the contractor. And so there's a lot of work that goes into not having homes damaged, but demolition being the second most hazardous occupation in the State, damage is going to happen. And hopefully, we can get it corrected.
And we would love to be able to have further discussion regarding that, but I don't want to put anyone on the spot, but we could talk about our cases --
'Cause Councilman Rizzo is going to explode. Youse could sidebar after this, but we have more witnesses. 42 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Councilman Rizzo?
Counselor, you indicated that you've had communications with some of the contractors and they claim that it wasn't in the specification what you were requesting. Have you ever communicated to L&I?
The fact that possibly the specification that the contractors are working with doesn't include certain things that you consider required to do a proper demolition?
Well, Gray can definitely comment on that. We certainly have in terms of once litigation has been started, all of that is discussed, but when we do -- before we started any litigation, we initially filed a claim which has to be done within six months of the date of the damage. So a claim is filed with the City, and then we are referred to -- with Risk Management, and then we are referred to the contractors. And whenever I've dealt initially with a claim, there were often promises that certain measures be done, but they were not done. 43 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025
Miss Brooks, Councilman, this isn't really germane to this particular hearing. I think this is another hearing about contractors. I mean, I hate to do this to you, but we'll be here all day.
Okay? And if we could stay on the fence thing here and then -- I'll talk to you personally after this. Councilman Rizzo and I will hang around, and maybe there's something we can do, 'cause it's more than the tearing down of buildings when this happens; there's a lot of City contracts that don't follow form, we're finding that out. Do you have any statement for us?
I'm Gray Smith. I'm an architect and urban planner. My office is in Center City, Philadelphia.
I'm also a City resident 44 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 and a taxpayers. And for years, I've studied the process used by the Department of L&I for demolition of imminently dangerous properties. Both as a citizen and a taxpayer, I'm concerned about the liabilities it creates for the City government and as an expert in over legal cases against the 9 City regarding demolition of properties and the 10 damages to the properties next door caused by that 11 work by the private contractors that are 12 contracted to the City. Most of those cases were 13 Judicare cases, but there have been some private 14 civil actions as well by property owners currently 15 working on Sheridan Street, for example, within 16 the Roxborough area, for the property owners 17 adjacent to the demolition project by the City in 18 that regard. 19 To begin with, and I've said this many 20 times, L&I should really not be in the business of contracting for building demolition.
Mr. Smith, I hate to do this to you too, and I know you want to get this on the record and it's important, but this has nothing to do with fences. I know it's the 45 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 reason, it's like the chicken and the egg, so to speak, but --
Right. And, I mean, this is something we definitely want to have hearings on, 'cause as the Chairman of L&I, I'm very interested in this, but we have some people here that want to get here and that need to speak. If you want to hang around and talk to us about that --
I did want to say -- the next statement I was going to make is that --
-- that is a subject for another hearing, but it did open up today and I've been very intimately involved in that issue.
Thank you, and I'd love to talk to you about that 'cause it's very important.
Regarding the new requirement for fencing at the perimeter of newly vacant properties, I urge the adoption of Bill No. 25 000025. 46 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 If you can picture a rowhouse property, and some of you, like I, live in rowhouses in Philadelphia, and all of a sudden one day, the building on one side of you is demolished. All of the security that you had from that building adjacent to you, which nobody could get into that property, other than through the front door, is gone. And you're left with it entirely open, insecure, and in many cases, without your side fence in between that property because it may have gotten demolished at the same time. And all of a sudden, people start parking there, or junk cars, abandoned vehicles start arriving there. Vandalism occurs to your property and to the property across the way. And there's other dumping, the growth of weeds, which harbor rats, dogs, and bugs. Fencing, obviously, would help eliminate some of those problems. Clearly to avoid the liabilities that are created by the City when they expose adjacent property owners to open derelict properties in this process need to be resolved and prevented, and a simple way to do that is a minimum of 6-feet-high chain-link fencing painted, with solid 47 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 foundations, not temporary fencing, at the front, both sides, and the back property line, with clear, distinct specifications as to the requirements for each individual property. Both interior and corner properties need the full treatment. And I would suggest that we somehow get a definition of "other protective devices" so that the minimal is not always the rule. In a perfect world, a front gate and keys to that gate for the neighbors or for a block captain or a civic association would be a long -- would go a long way towards maintenance of the lot once it is fenced, because we cannot rely on the City and its limited resources to do that work. And since community groups are doing such a significant job of that, we need to depend on them and Mr. Bonham's programs. There is one obstacle to this bill, though. The City budget you passed about a month ago specifically omitted the cost of fences for City demolition projects. In fact, it was such an important omission, it was mentioned in a very brief newspaper article about those few omissions that you did. So I trust that City Council will 48 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 quickly shift money around to handle that problem now that it will be a regulatory issue and not just simply a voluntary issue on the part of the City. Again, when City Council considers the broader issue of transferring these demolition efforts to other agencies perhaps, please call on me for testimony and I'd be glad to talk to you later today.
Thank you very much. Any questions? Councilman Clarke?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Solvibile, I had a question about L&I's policy on cleaning vacant lots when they are fenced. And I know in the past, there have been numerous requests that come in to ask to clean a lot and weeds that had already been fenced in.
Well, at that point, the lot is in the possession of the community, and it's their responsibility to clean it.
As a matter of fact, during the fencing program that was ran by the Managing Director's Office, a gate was placed on the lot and a key given to the block captain to -- you know, for access in and out and to keep it locked. So that's our policy. The community then becomes responsible for the maintenance of the lot.
No? Seeing none, the next group of witnesses -- we're going to pull a couple of the community groups up here at a time. Let me find my list. James Grant, Ruth Bazemore, Elizabeth Parker, and Sharon Parker, if you guys could all come up here at the same time. (Witnesses come forward.)
Mr. Grant, I seem 50 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 to have you with all the ladies, I didn't mean that, but congratulations.
And since we called Mr. Grant's name first, Mr. Grant, do you want to go first?
Well, yeah. Thank you, Council. First I'd like to say good morning to the Council.
My name is James Arthur Grant, Sr., and I'm here in support of the Bill 15 25. And I was hoping that I would hear some discussion on it before you call on me to say anything from the panel there, to let me know just which way I should speak here this morning. I am for the bill. I'm looking at the fact that if there's a fence put around this property, it need to be at least 6 foot high to keep people from throwing garbage over the fence, and we need a key in the neighborhood so the resident can get in there and clean it up when it get dirty. Now, this is my idea of it. I think 51 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 it's a good bill and I'd like to support it as far as I can. Thank you.
Good morning and thanks for allowing me to be here. My name is Ruth Bazemore, and I brought along with me another block captain, Miss Grace Haywood.
Basically, I'm always in support of anything that's going to make our community better, but prior, I'm using this opportunity to address the problem of vacant lots that we in our community is having a problem seems to basically being able to have acquisition. And one of the properties, it's in the 5300 block of Race Street, and another is in the unit block of Ruby Street, 52 North Ruby, 5317 Market.
And these are properties, ma'am, that you're having problems acquiring or you're having problems --
Basically acquiring. But one of the reasons -- the main reason is, we 52 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 have a very stable block, and the 5300 is the first time that we even have -- it's a corner property being torn down. We weren't even aware that it should have been torn down, but it was. And we went through quite a bit of process after it was torn down where it was really unsafe. But we're going to move on because what we would like is that we have gotten some funding from the block captains to basically do programs with young children, and we would like these properties to be turned over to us so that we could have them fenced in and use them basically as a gardener as the tool for our community, and we are sort of like not being able to hit first base.
Ma'am, not to interrupt you, but I just want to answer you. You are very, very lucky today because you have your District Councilperson sitting right here, Councilman Nutter, and I know you know him and have a relationship with him. A real quick civic lesson: everything flows through his office in his Council district. So he can --
All right, okay. We'll get someone from her office to help you.
And I have a letter -- I mean, we've been through all of this.
In fact, the properties that I'm speaking of have been turned over to a law firm, and I just spoke to them, and I have a letter from the City, and I went to her and I also went to the City, and it's dated August the 18th, '99. And it says that it's still in the name of Walter Powell. Well, these people are dead, they've been dead. 54 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025
What may have happened there -- and I'm not exactly sure, but I can tell you from my experience in my district and the other District Councilmen, the City sold a bunch of these tax liens, and if you read the Daily News, they did a real in-depth article about it -- in fact, one of the reporters is probably sitting over there, and he'll probably share his notes with you -- Mr. McDonald -- about how this works 'cause he knows more about this than any of us. But what happens is that the City sold all these tax liens. Now, we as District Councilpeople fought, and some of the At-Large Councilpeople, for us to be able to handle these questions that you have particularly. When there's one in a district that we care -- in my district, I go and try to get it substituted. I have a couple right now that it's taken a long time. The City throws other ones in and then take them back and then we try and work something out with people like yourself and good intended community groups. I mean, I can't answer for Councilwoman 55 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Blackwell, but we can get somebody from her office up here to talk to you about that.
I would appreciate that because we -- the lots right now are being cared for, but we cannot -- we want to keep them from having cars and rubbish, and we've been doing this. We need the fencing but we would also like to be able to have control so that they could be a community project, because if we are being asked to -- and we don't have a problem but we're trying to keep our community safe and, we really want to thank our mayor for moving the cars, we want to thank Mr. Nutter for having the trees, because they're going to remove some of the trees on our block.
Now, if start with the Mayor and go to Mr. Nutter, you have to mention every one of our names or we get mad. (Laughter.)
Because Councilman 56 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 Rizzo looking really, really hurt. He's got them big crocodile tears. And not to cut you short again, but in the interest of time, you're in favor of the fences.
And all these other things, we will want to work with you. And could we possibly wrap this up and hear from the others.
And have the fence and how we can basically get acquisitions of these lots so that we can continue our program.
Councilman, Miss Bazemore put the addresses in the record, so we can check on them. 57 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025
Good morning. My name is Sharon Ball. I am glad to be here. This is my first time so -- oh, boy, you have my --
And it's my first time, too, as the Chairman of this committee, so I'm sort of scared too.
But my brain is really clicking from the prior testimonies because I have a lot of questions for them.
Let me just tell you, you don't have Councilman Nutter. He's kicking me as I do everything wrong. At least his feet can't reach you, and he is a good guy but he's got a tough kick.
Yeah. Again, my name is Sharon Ball. I'm the block captain and block coordinator for the 2900 block of Ringgold Street, also the former committeeperson for the 38th Ward, 21st Division. I've worked in my community for over 30 years, I've worked with children for the 58 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 same length of time. And I've seen my neighborhood go up and come down and try to come back up again. And the fences, I am all for it because the young lady that testified, the attorney, yes, I'm one who had three houses torn down on my block, and I had personally took money out of my pocket to put a fence up because I wasn't going to worry about sleeping at night. Who's going to come in my back yard or my neighbor's back yard or the back yards behind me, that was a concern of mine. So I went to the Police Department and called my police district and asked them, was it okay? They said it was fine. I said I had no 16 problems with it, and the fence went up, okay, because that was a concern of mine as well as a concerned citizen and person that's living on that block. Now, we have quite a few vacant lots on the block. Some have fences. We just had two properties torn down last year, summer of '99 -- 29, 42, and 44. They weren't completely done, they hadn't finished the walls on both sides. Unfortunately, I had two youths that were back 59 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 there trying to steal an elderly's large dog house. They got half of it over the fence. Fortunately, I was home that particular day and I seen one of the assailants. So I was able to apprehend him, and he put the lady's dog house back. Now, if I wasn't there and no other neighbor seen them, they might have done something to the neighbor. They're right in back of this vacant lot. I have seniors -- if you're facing the lot -- this is Ringgold Street (indicating), these are the two vacant houses. I have seniors on the right side, and I have older -- all females -- on the left. So why should they worry at night when they want to go to sleep? Why should the young lady, the little girl have to worry at night when she has to get up in the morning to go to school? She has to worry about her grades, not who's going to come in her house, or who's going to be in the alleyway at night while she's trying to sleep. It's not fair to her, it's not fair to her education. And it's an unnecessary stress for families on both sides. So, yes, please pass this bill, let 60 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025 those fences go up. And if you want to us respect you, you have to respect us and be concerned about our community and your constituents. And, also, we have a few blocks -- 2942 and 44 -- it doesn't have a fence yet, it was torn down in '99. 2970, it has a fence that took five years. 2418 West Mayfield also needs a fence, okay? They do have one, excuse me, but it took less than three years, okay? 2409 West Elkhart, they need a fence. That house demolished in '99. Yesterday, the 2400 block of Toronto Street, they're demolishing a property. Hopefully, it won't take over a year to have fences put up there, okay? And we really need it. Okay, you want the residents to vote for you and your platform, but once you're elected, the platform is terminated. And why should you terminate the platform. If we could work together as a team, we could accomplish a lot. Thank you. 61 4/25/00 L&I - BILL 000025
Thank you, ma'am. Any questions for this witness? (No questions.)