civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - July 21, 2020

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Jul 21, 20203h 54m

A as in Apple, B as in boy, A as in Apple, S as in Sam. And do you swear and affirm to tell the

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truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. Thank you. I just need to, a couple of

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points I wanted to make. First of all, I've been co-chair of the zoning committee for the past

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three and a half years this is the first time an applicant has come to the board

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and accused us of falsifying the votes and the outcome of not

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the votes and the outcome of not considering people's votes or bullying other people to find

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considering people's votes or bullying other people to

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in our favor. I wanted to make clear that everybody who was in attendance that day

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was opposed. We were not presented with anybody who was in favor, including the other near neighbor

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that showed up. The letters presented to us, those aren't votes. You have to be at the meeting in

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order to vote. Those letters appear to be letters drafted by the applicant and handed out to

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neighbors to see if they would sign. The one letter is just people's first names. It's not even

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anybody's full names. The board took the position, as we have, with a number of commercial applicants

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that have come before us in at least the past five years, that there are a limited number of

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commercially viable corners in our neighborhood in our sliver of point breeze that runs between

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broad street and 18th street and this particular corner is 1200 square feet is the complete first

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floor and that is a viable commercial space that just doesn't exist throughout the rest of the

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of our sliver of our community it is one block from broad street it is two blocks from um the

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The Broad Street Tasker Mars subway line or subway stop, it is a perfect spot for a good

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commercial business.

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In the past 18 months, we have seen, within two blocks of this location, we have seen

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a bakery, batter and crumbs.

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We've seen another cafe, a market, and a medical supply shop opening up at 15th and Mars.

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We have exchanged emails with the applicant and the owner since January, which if I could

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just point out that at the time of the meeting, we weren't as concerned with coronavirus and its

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economic impact on the city. We took this position then, and in the six months since then, we've had

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numerous exchanges with the applicant and the owner and have encouraged them to market the

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commercial space, to speak with commercial landlords, to actually make an attempt to find

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a commercial resident. We believe that this coronavirus is temporary in nature, even though

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you know it could be another six eight months or a year before things feel normal again but

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permanently converting that first base to residential is a permanent decision and we

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really don't want to lose a commercially viable spot of 1200 square feet for a temporary for

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a seemingly temporary in the grand scheme of things situation additionally we previously

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approved or a sit-down restaurant a block away. We've had applicants who have presented us with

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the same kind of hardship that these applicants have had, and they're just not hardships.

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You bought this property that was a commercial, zoned commercial, and now you don't, now you want

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out of it, but there's no actual hardship. They haven't tried to actually market the spot

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in a reasonable way and we just wanted them to do that um there's again there's no hardship

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and we as a community really want a viable commercial spot and believe that this is a

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prime corner for that um i'm just heartened to hear that they have come to this board to you know

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say that we've somehow carried on a nefarious business and lied about our position um and we

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have not been we have been clear from the start and consistent um if there are any questions you

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know i live within two blocks and i would love and i would patronize you know commercial business

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if it were there and i really hope that this board will direct them to pursue those avenues

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and actually try to fill that spot we're otherwise not opposed to two residential units above it

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thank you three just my

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i'm in a good response to that just just a minute please

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um miss davis you said you were part of the

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point breeze i am co-chair i've been co-chair of the east point breeze

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um zoning committee uh planning and zoning committee for the past three and

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a half year and three years i've lived in the

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neighborhood for five and a half years so where does newbold

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and your uh borders where do you um newbold is

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Broad Street is roughly Broad Street to

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Pashyunk and or sorry

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Broad Street to 18th Street the

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north end of it. Correct and then

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Washington to

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Pashyunk thereabouts. We changed

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our name a couple of years ago to East Point Breeze

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Neighbors. Oh okay all right that's what confused

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me all right. No that's okay.

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All right I

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don't remember over here

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I don't remember that change

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happening that's why I asked.

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yeah Vince

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yeah yeah I just have

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I didn't say you bullied anybody or did anything

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wrong I said when we

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went to go we asked her if

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she if she the one

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person that was there we asked

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we asked do you have any concerns or do you have a judgment on what you would want there she said

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do you have any concerns

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or do you have a judgment on what you would

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want

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i don't so i didn't say you bullied anybody i just said that she had no opinion beforehand

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isn't that the truth i mean is that what i heard i'm going to go back and forth please yes yeah i

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mean i i didn't want to call you a bully i just said she had no opinion while we were there

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Mr. DeFino, I think you made your point.

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Ms. Davis?

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Chairman, the only thing I would add is the reason that we require, I don't put any weight

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in those letters that Mr. DeFino provided because none of those people showed up at

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the meeting.

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We require neighbors to appear at the meeting and express their opinion and to listen to

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everybody.

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So if that near neighbor showed up and didn't have an opinion in the beginning, she had

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an opinion at the end and she voted to oppose it which is why you know that's why we have rco

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meetings and that's why they're required to attend those letters of the near neighbors um you know

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i don't they just knock on the door and say sign my petition i don't know i mean they didn't appear

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and hear out what other neighbors say there's it's frequent that i change my mind of mind as well um

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but there was nothing i appreciate that um mr chairman thank you can i just have a response

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that mr chairman we don't want this to go back and forth it's not at all just it's for the board

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um so just wanted to add just so for the board can vote if i was with you together i'd show you the

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i took photos of all 15 intersections which is 60 properties on the major corners 15 16th and 17th

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street from dickinson three blocks north three blocks south of those 60 corners 25 are residential

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16 are bodega markets that could be beer could be lottery all different food mostly bulletproof glass

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nine are vacant three are churches two are salons two are laundromats one's a park one's a school

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one's a community center so 83 of all the major corners in that area are residential bodega

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markets are vacant as ms tavis mentioned we started emailing ms tavis and the board in

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January after our meeting, every month from there to ask if they have any commercial opportunities

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that we could talk to since they mentioned that there's demand in the area. Never received an

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answer until we got into April and May. One of my partners, Rich Luletta, started a company called

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the Philadelphia Apartment Company, which has now recently sold to Keller Williams, largest rental

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agency in the city, has a very extensive experience as a licensed realtor. We talked to two different

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major commercial agencies from the beginning. So we're not asking for a bailout on what we bought.

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We're asking for what we think is the most optimal use of this property in spending time with the

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neighborhoods and canvassing the corners. In regards to the three neighbors, we spoke to the

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three neighbors. The fact that they did not show up to the meeting does not mean that their voice

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does not matter. So those three neighbors, they supported this project and we spoke to them for

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that. So the fact that they did not come to the RCO, I don't think that means that their voice

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is illegitimate or that their voice should be questioned that's an opinion um that we could

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we could debate and it's not worth it so just want to mention those those facts of what the

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actual community looks like that's closest to where we are and that uh that led to our decision

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i appreciate that i'm somewhat familiar with that neighborhood i know further south you go

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uh for whatever reason most of the corners uh over the last 10 years or so have been converted

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it into very active commercial storefronts what happens when you go

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north of say Morris Tasker I'm not sure why that still hasn't occurred it's a

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flip of the coin for me to be honest with you I understand both sides anyway

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before I go any further is there anyone else is there anyone else on this call

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time no chair you can proceed all right thank you uh closing remarks mr tofino if not we'll move on

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no i have no closing remarks i think everything was said okay uh questions from the board yes

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mr chairman i'd like to see the uh first floor plan if possible to see how that common space

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in the basement is reached Paul are you there yeah do you want me to show the

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do you did from the the architect David Whipple's email he sent us recently I

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don't know if I'm gonna be able to to get that one will you be able to share

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it in Paul is not a panelist no only you can

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Paul is not a panelist. No, only you can share Mr. Dufino.

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If you could pull up your email from uh from when he sent it to us.

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You had it on your ZBA hearings packet.

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Well I had it in my packet. I had the one plan I did have was the initial

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plan and my help has left the building so I'm in Bay shape area. You sent these

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emails on July 8th in the ZBA to the ZBA to Tanya

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Vince if I were to email that packet to you right now would that help you know

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why the exhibit I did have from the packet was the first rolling I don't

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know if it was in it my home it's an important question that Tom raised I mean if we can't

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resolve it we're gonna have to hold this for another week does that work for everyone on the

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board. I'm trying to get to it, but Dave Whipple just sent it to you, Vince. He just texted me.

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I might be able to put it onto my screen. Let me see. New mail. See, I have my other computer

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here, so I might be able to go to that screen and just put my... If I might suggest we can hold the

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vote and be able to have the document submitted to all chairs yeah the board

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members yep that's that's exactly right 411 and I think that will be fine it

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wouldn't be a hearing hold because you already have the documents included in

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the exhibit packet okay we'll leave that for discussion and vote on it next

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Tuesday yes we're saying yes okay and you'll provide the you have it in your

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package yes you don't need me to do anything i don't no i have it uh carol i don't have this

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carol would you read off the calendar and number and the address let me see if i could put my

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computer off to it no it's not working okay carol do you want me to go to the next case no no just

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read off that give me the calendar read off the calendar calendar i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry

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did we have payment planning commission oh sorry thank you tanya planning commission

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sorry remember and members of the board this property is indicated for commercial use on

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the comprehensive plan while we have no objection to two units we do feel that the corner commercial

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is viable in this neighborhood that has had an influx of new commercial in the past two years

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Accordingly, we recommend that the first floor unit not be approved.

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Thank you.

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And again, I apologize for not acknowledging you.

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Calendar number 39293-1500 Dickinson.

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Okay.

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All right.

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So calendar number 39293-1500 Dickinson will be held for discussion.

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We will have a vote on this next Tuesday morning, provided we get the information that our board member, Tom Holloman, requested.

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I think I actually have it now.

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I think we already have it.

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We have the floor plans.

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For the first floor.

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For each floor, I believe.

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Vince, wasn't that included in the exhibit packet that you submitted?

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Yeah, I think it was.

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I'm pulling it up now, but I can't.

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I don't know what I'm doing.

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Wait.

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We'll hold it until next week.

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I don't know if you're saying it, if you're not saying it.

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I only see you.

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Yeah, I don't know how to get this on here.

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All righty.

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If there's an issue, you can just contact me, and I'll shoot it over.

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I can shoot it over by e-mail now.

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do we have that we have other cases don't we carol all right thank you yes we do all right

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We have other cases, don't we?

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so we'll hold this for discussion uh and we'll vote on it next tuesday executive session

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all right thank you thank you miss davis

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okay calendar number 3914 ag 2406 west thompson street the attorney is alan knockamson

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are you with us

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yes do you agree to wave the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy

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see. Yes, I do. Name and address. Alan

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Nockamson of Nockamson, PC 123 South Broad Street, Suite 1600, Philadelphia, PA 19101.

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You swear in front of me to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

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I do. Thank you. I also have Mayor Miltz, who is a representative of the owner's group on the

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line as well.

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we're going to hold off until we get the you want to swear him in now or you want to yeah i thought

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we were going to swear and we can wait at the end yeah wait till he whenever he testifies we'll

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swear him in okay so i hinted you a packet of uh eight exhibits the first is the detail property

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second is the tax clearance certificates uh uh third one is a notice of refusal this is an rm1

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property. The only refusal we have here, we're seeking to put three units when two units are

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allowed as of right. This lot size, the size of a lot is 1,072. So under the code, we're required

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to have 1,080. So we're actually only eight square feet short with regards to this property.

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The board may remember this, or maybe not, but in January of 2017, I did the zoning variance project for 2408 West Thompson Street. Exactly the same scenario. Same lot size, same refusal. We were eight square feet short. We were 1,072 lot size, and we were seeking three units to be 1,080.

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The board granted it under calendar number 29-250.

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