Thank you.
Okay, Chair, we have 46 attendees, and you can start as you wish.
Thank you.
Good morning, everyone.
My name is Bill Bergman, and I will be chairing this morning's ZBA hearings.
With me is our Vice Chair, Ismail Shahid.
he's here um our board member cheryl l gaston present mr chairman our board member tenetta
graham good morning president mr chairman our board member michael johns
and our board member, Taya Nguyen.
How's it, Mr. Chairman?
Thank you.
Also present is our attorney, Hillary Emerson,
and also our other attorney, Ryan McSherry.
Here's our virtual format.
The proceedings are being recorded.
With your participation, you agree to be recorded.
The video will be available by contacting zbaexecutivedirector at phila.gov.
For a court stenographer, we ask attorneys and witnesses to identify themselves before testifying.
If you're participating by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute.
To enter an appearance statement, call 267-270-5548.
Leave your email address and address of the property in question.
The question and answer box on the screen is not for testimony. All comments should be directed to ZVA Executive Director at phil.gov. Let's look at our schedule for today.
Number five, MI 2024-000-603-2113 Chelton Avenue, that case is being continued.
Number six, MI 2024, 000642, 742 Christian Street.
That case has been continued.
Number nine, MI 2024, 003406, 1406 East Moymencing Avenue.
That case has continued.
Number 10, MI 2024-003-407, 2020 West 65th Avenue, that case is continued.
And number 15, MI 2024-003-554-636 West Allegheny Avenue, there's a request from the RCO for continuance.
Is the RCO present? And also, Elmo Construction is the listed owner.
good morning mr chair this is jason hand i will be your co-host for today
i do not see any hands raised for the rco or any other participants for this particular case
thank you mr hand so am i here to to clarify the the the applicant advised the rco they would be
requesting a continuance but we have not received continuance we were just advised that the rco was
advised that there would be a continuous request. Thank you very much. So MI 2024-003-554-636
West Allegheny Avenue. Cases continued. Mark must be heard. Are there any other requests for
continuance? Yes, Chair. The first hand we have up is from Julian Lutz. I have allowed them to speak.
good morning could you please state your name good morning everyone my name is julian lutz and
i am a volunteer law student at the university of pennsylvania and i am working with mr tehran
moment on permit application number
uh, on, um, permit application number. Why don't we, why don't we do this first state your name
and spell for the court stenographer. Certainly. My name is Julian Lutz, and you can spell that
J U L I A N last name L U T Z. You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth,
nothing but the truth. Yes. What, what case are you involved with? We're involved with
mr tehran moment at 1352 south 30th street and i can give you the numbers uh if it would be helpful
let me show you here that's number 12 mr share
um hillary can um this is a pro se um
law student cannot represent him kenny um unfortunately not no
um mr lutz you're not a certified legal intern is that correct uh i i am not yet but i however
we i'm also work working with a um sort of certified attorney who i believe should be
on this call and could be recognized okay so either either a licensed attorney or um the
applicant um himself needs to be needs to present the case and we had this we have this listed as
a pro se um i mean you can assist him with you know technology and that sort of thing but he
would need to he would need to present unless he has retained an attorney to represent him
or has a pro bono attorney representing him i believe he is present here today i just wanted to
uh state my you know enter my you know attendance here okay all right so we're going to call that
case in a little later, okay? Okay. All right. Thank you. Any other requests for continuance?
Yes, Mr. Chair. I have a hand up from Devin Uchtah. I've allowed them to speak.
Good morning, Mr. Chair. Hi. Could you please, you know, state your name and spell for the
court stenographer? Yeah, sure. Devin Uchtah. Last name is UQDAH. I'm an attorney. I'll take
it over to case for a 31 13 north 16th street um hold on hold on hold on do you do you swear
or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes all right so so devon
this is the sixth listing and i know you took it over but you took it over in in june and you came
back in january so i i mean we we got to have an update where do you stand with this case i took it
over in June of this year?
It says June of this year
you took it over. Right.
So I'm waiting to schedule with the RCO.
That's the only thing. Could I just have it marked so that
I can meet with the RCO and then come back to the
board?
Devin,
this is the last time.
We got to get this done.
Okay, so I'm going to continue with
one more time, but the next time
this is listed, it's got to be heard.
Understood. Excuse me,
chair this is uh keisha can we uh have it marked as attorney moving party
thank you m i m i 2022-001-943-3113 north 16th street case continued attorney moving party
thank you any other requests for continuance
yes i have a hand up from a number ending in three five five two i've allowed that person to speak
i could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer
yes adrian fernandez and my last name is spelled f-e-r-n-a-n-d-e-z and i
hold on do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
yes adrian what what case are you involved with um i just heard the lawyer for 31 13
north 16th street and i am requesting i understand that you gave another continuance after three
must be heard um the attorney sent a letter in july for email on july 1st 2024 to all of the rcos
and we have not heard from this attorney since then.
I am requesting that this be dismissed because just the burden on the neighbors
and the RCOs that we've had from this applicant party since 2021.
It would be fair if they have to just start all over again,
and we are requesting that this be dismissed if possible.
Adrian, I think you heard my conversation with the attorney that I'd go one more time. We made it attorney moving party. It's going to be heard when we have it in here again.
And it's going to be heard when we have it in here again.
And I do appreciate your concern.
All right.
Thank you for your consideration.
Thank you.
Anyone else with a continuance?
Yes, I have a hand up from Bill Keffer.
I've allowed them to speak.
Good morning.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Good morning.
My name is Bill Keffer, K-E-F-F-E-R, and I am not requesting a continuance.
I'm here for case number 12.
I'm just to help.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Sorry.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do, sir.
Mr. Keffer, you're an attorney?
I am, sir.
Okay, sure.
So you will hear.
We will call you, I hope, shortly, okay?
Fantastic.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Any other requests for continuance?
all right we'll have a few cases here that go ahead all right i'm sorry i'm sorry to uh
interrupt you mr chair but there's a hand up from uh 3153 number okay allow them to speak
good morning could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer
star six to unmute please
yes Antoine Montgomery
could you please spell your name
for the court stenographer
A-N-T-O-I-N-E
Montgomery
M-O-N-T-G-O-M-E-R-Y
where a firm to tell the truth
the whole truth and nothing but the truth sir
what's the location of the case you're calling about
2024-003511
I'm requesting that
Continuum. What's the what's the address? I'm sorry. 5724 Vine Street.
OK, this is the third listing. The case must be heard the next time.
okay okay all right so mi2024 003 511 5724 vine street case is continued mark must be heard
any other continuances in the audience
i do not see any further answer mr chair number three mi2023 004 531 98 77 of a reed road
Segi and Semyon Havlowski are the applicants.
This is we have no exhibits. This is the third listing.
Mr. Chair, I have a hand up from Michael Horskiewicz.
I've allowed them to speak.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court sonographer?
Michael Horskowitz, H-E-R-S-K-O-V-I-T-Z.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Are you involved in this case?
I'm representing the RCO, the Greater Boston Civic League.
We don't have any listings.
This is the third listing.
We don't have any exhibits.
I'm sorry.
This is the third listing.
Do you have comments about this case?
Yes, they came in front of the association and we rejected it. We sent the information to the zoning board. But apparently the fence that was initially installed was removed. And they have a new fence that seems to appear to meet all the requirements. So we're not quite sure why it's before the board again.
all right thank you very much um we do we do not see the the owners right am i right jason
yeah that's right sir no thank you so mi2023 004 531 88 98 77 re-road no exhibits third listing
i vote to dismiss michael johns my vote is to dismiss general gaston my vote is to dismiss
Tannetta Graham, my vote is to dismiss.
Ayah Wynn, my vote is to dismiss.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is to dismiss.
Number four, MI 2023-005-039-3234 Fanshawe Street.
This is the third listing.
We have no exhibits.
Vern Anastasio is the attorney.
Vern, are you in the audience?
they've been allowed to speak morning mr chair good morning council could you
Good morning, Mr. Chair.
Good morning, Counsel. Could you state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
state your name and spell for the court stenographer
Yes, sir. Vern Anastasio, A-N-A-S-T-A-S-I-O.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Could you give us an update on this case?
Yes, Mr. Chair. I believe my staff submitted a request to withdraw.
If that missed the file, then I'm officially requesting that this case be withdrawn.
Thank you very much. MI 2023-005-039-3234 Fanshawe Street. The case has been withdrawn.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir. And number seven. MI 2024-001-377-4742 Rose Hill Street.
Hoyet, Yim, and Soar Yim Touch are the listed owners. No exhibits first listing.
Mr. Chair, we also have Moniquetta Coates.
Moniquetta Coates is the listed applicant.
The listed applicant, I believe, is an expediter or third-party professional.
Moniquetta Coates has her hand raised.
I've allowed them to speak.
Good morning.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Yes, Moniquetta Coates, M-O-N-I-Q-U-E-T-T-A.
last name coach c-o-a-t-s you swear a firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but
the truth yes could you tell me the status of this case we have no exhibits um wasn't aware
that we needed to present exhibits um we want to move forward with the case and be seen uh we were
we did go to the rco and was supported by the rco so but what we're going to do is we're going to
continue this day because there's no exhibits you're going to have to call the office they'll
tell you exactly what you need okay all right thank you miss coates are you an attorney no
okay so you cannot you cannot represent the property owners before the zoning board unless
you are an attorney they need to represent themselves or have an attorney but i can
represent myself as the applicant as the contractor going for zoning no you cannot
no you cannot you do not own the property you are not leasing the property or purchasing the
property. You cannot represent yourself before the zoning board. Okay. So they're here. If when
we go up again, they can represent themselves, correct? The case, right. The case will be
continued today because we do not have exhibits. When it's ready to be heard, they can represent
themselves. All right. Thank you. MI 2024 001 377 4742 Rose Hill Street. Case is continued. Mark
must be heard. We're going to go to our ad ones. Number one, MI 2024-003-175-6709 Essington Avenue.
The vote in this matter has been rescheduled to Wednesday, October 30th, 2024 at 9 30 a.m.
Number two, MI 2024-002-965-1520-30 Washington Avenue, I vote yes with proviso.
Revised plan, one page, stamped by ZBA on October 23rd, 2024.
Michael Johns, I refuse from this case.
Oh, Gaston, my vote is yes with proviso.
Conetta Graham, my vote is yes with Proviso.
Aylin, my vote is yes with Proviso.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes with Proviso.
Number three, MI 2023-005-977-5310 Haverford Avenue, this is a request for reconsideration.
I vote no to reconsideration and rehearing.
I recuse from this case also.
Charles Gaston, my vote is no to reconsideration and rehearing.
Senator Graham, I vote no to reconsideration and rehearing.
My vote is no for reconsideration and rehearing.
Ishmael Shahid, my vote is no to reconsideration and rehearing.
Thank you.
We're going to go to our regular list.
We're going to start with number eight.
And I'm sorry, Chair, for the interruption.
We do have two hand raised.
I think Fanshawe was withdrawn, but the owner is stating that it should not be withdrawn.
Can I allow him to speak?
What case is that?
32-34 Fanshawe Street, number four.
Well, the attorney came on and said it was withdrawn.
I think we should tell them they should contact the office.
they they should contact the office we're not going to have an argument over that okay thank
We're not going to have an argument over that.
Okay, thank you.
you honey the record the recognized attorney said it was withdrawn all right we're going to go to
Attorney, the record.
number eight mi 2024 003 397 328 dawson street mary ella lerner and javier escobar delgado are the
applicants. This is a pro se. There's unanimous support from the
Wissahawken Interested Citizens Association. Mr. Chair, Mary L.
Lerner will be rejoining as a panel shortly. Good morning.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Yes, my name is Marielle Lerner.
That's M-A-R-I-E-L-L-E-L-E-R-N-E-R.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Yes, I do.
So this application is for the erection of a rear deck, open deck, above the first floor level,
access from first floor as part of an existing attack structure for continuous use as a single
family household living, whereas the proposed rear deck above the floor level of the first door
on the required rear yard is prohibited in the RSA 5 zoning district. Our vice chair has just
a few questions for you, okay? Okay, great. Good morning, counsel. Do you agree to weigh the reading
of the refusal or stipulate to attack the same.
I'm sorry, say that again, please. Oh, excuse me. I'm but this is a
have you know then all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed with this case
five days in advance of this hearing? Yes. Thank you. Please proceed and share your screen.
okay can everyone see my screen we can we can okay great um so please just let me know if i'm
going too fast and you want me to pause on anything so just have all the exhibits here in our power
point okay okay so i'll just start by showing a view of the front of our house this is not the
construction we're talking about but this is just to give the context of our property and our outdoor
space so we have a row home and we have a small front porch and a small yard as you can see
and when we bought the house in 2015 we saw one so as you can see on the right there we saw in
the back there are many homes on our row that have back decks that expand the outdoor space
so when we bought the house we immediately made the plan to build our own deck
okay so that's a view of our deck as you can see it's an existing construction and so it kind of
start by apologizing for asking for a variance after the fact um as i'll explain it was not
our intention we didn't realize we would need a variance when we started construction
okay um so this is just to illustrate how our deck looks along with the other ones as you can
see we're on a hill and that's the reason for the variance that we need um so as you can see
as you look up the block, kind of each home is a bit higher than the next and each deck
is higher than the next because of the slope. Okay. And the reason that we need a variance is
because our deck is higher than the first floor level. So the code requires it to be at first
floor level, but it's about one foot nine inches higher. There's three steps leading from the first
floor to the floor of the deck. And the reason we did that is to meet the other code requirement
of the six-foot clearance below the deck.
So this is to show you the clearance where a car is parked.
That's our car there.
As you can see, our car is pretty small, so it obviously doesn't fill the six feet,
but other cars need more space.
So as I said, again, the issue is the height above the first floor.
So this is to illustrate the difference between our deck and the neighboring deck.
And we don't believe that it causes any issues for the neighbors.
The height difference should not be blocking any light to the deck or the windows.
No neighbors have complained about this, but we're here seeking this variance because it was requested via the permit that we applied for.
And through inspections, L&I inspector ended up requesting a zoning application and a zoning variance because we didn't meet the code.
And through inspections, L&I inspector and.
So I'll just, let's see, back up a little bit to explain that we started out with an easy deck permit, which is probably how most of the decks on our block were constructed.
We believe that we could fit those requirements, so we applied for that.
We started construction and we were able to pass the first few inspections.
It was not until constructing the framing that we realized that some points of the ground below the deck were high enough that we could not fit six feet below.
So that's when we ended up with a modification of a few steps to elevate the deck a little bit to meet the six foot elevation.
At that point, our inspector requested that we have a structural engineer evaluate the
step construction since it's not part of the EZDEC standards.
So we requested that evaluation.
The engineer came out and requested some modifications.
We completed the work on those modifications and got out a work verification letter.
And at that point, the lessons and inspections asked us to get a regular building permit
because we were told that we couldn't use the Easy Deck permit
because of the deviation.
So when we applied for the regular building permit,
we were then also requested to apply for the zoning application.
We got the refusal for that, and then we submitted the appeal.
Yes, I'm just thinking if I'm missing anything else.
I think that's it.
And just to clarify, there's no earth disturbance
in addition to the posts there.
um and there shouldn't we we can't think of any impact to to neighbors or our neighborhood really
it's um not a very noticeable difference and we haven't um been told of any issues
you also went to the wissahick and rco am i correct it's an interested citizens association
yes we did we did attend the their membership meeting in september and presented our case and
have the results a few slides down from the boat as well. So this is our site plan.
As you can see, the deck is included there and everything you see here still follows
EZDEC standards in terms of the distance of the deck to the driveway in the back and to other homes.
This is the view of the elevation of the deck. So as I said,
It's about one, it's one foot, nine and three quarters inches above the first floor level.
That's the extra distance there.
This is just the other parts of the architectural plans.
These components are as in the EZ-DEC standards, no deviation there for the framing and the attachment to the wall.
And now these are the plans for our variance, the deviation from the EZ-DEC standards at the steps.
and you can see an image on the bottom left that's the step structure from below
and on the right is you can see the steps from the inside of the house.
Okay, this is the work verification letter from the structural engineer that I mentioned.
And this is our refusal letter from the zoning board.
This is our application for appeal.
Here's our project information form.
This is the deed of our house.
That's on two sides there.
This is the authorization letter from Javier, who's also here.
My husband, he's the other owner of the house.
So, where we look together, a certificate of tax compliance, this is a letter we sent
to neighbors to notify of the RCO meeting with Wicca in September.
We sent that to 132 addresses, not including our own, that's the list there.
Those are the certificates of mailing for those letters in three batches.
I'm here at the meeting results from the RCO meeting.
So we had 29 neighbors attending, four of whom were near neighbors, and they all voted in support.
All right. Thank you. Questions from the board?
I have no questions.
Questions or comments from our attorney?
questions or comments from our attorney no no questions but a comment thank you so much for
No questions, but a comment. Thank you.
the time and attention and care that you put into this application i agree oh thank you
it was a great presentation yes thank you very much questions or comments from our attorney uh
no no chair questions or comments from the virtual audience
mr chair i see a hand up from a daniel flesher i have allowed them to speak
hi sir could you please state your name it's spelled for the court stenographer
yes my name is daniel flesher d-a-n-i-e-l-f-l-e-s-h-e-r
where are firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
yes i do are you a neighbor uh yes i am all right please proceed sir
Yeah, I'm the zoning chair for the Wissahickon Interested Citizens Association, and I just wanted to very quickly reiterate that we give our unanimous and very excited support for this variance, and we-
All right, thank you very much for taking the time to close. We appreciate it. Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?
No further hands, Mr. Chair.
Well, any commission?
Thank you, Chairman, and good morning, David Fecteau, F-E-C-T-E-A-U, with the City Planning Commission.
You swear, affirm, to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
Yes, sir, I do.
Please proceed.
Thank you, sir.
Mr. Chairman and board members, the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the RSA-5 residential single-family zoning at this location.
The proposed variance for a roof deck, sorry, the proposed variance for a deck above the required rear yard is minor and in keeping with the spirit and purpose of the zoning code.
The City Planning Commission recommends that the board grant the proposed variance for a deck in the required rear yard.
MI 2024-003-397-328 Dawson Street, I vote yes.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is yes.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.
Ewan, my vote is yes.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes.
Thank you. You have your votes.
Thank you so much. Appreciate all your time.
Thank you.
Number 11, MI2024-003-408-5740 Windale Avenue.
Carol Spurlock is the owner.
We do not have an RCO letter at this point, but neighbors were sent notice and proof of mailing. Meeting was held August 21st, 2024. Winfield Community Neighborhood Association.
Carol Spurlock.
Chair, I have a hand up from a D. Dukes.
Shall I find out who this is before we proceed?
Hi, good morning.
This is D. Dukes.
I'm the president of the Winfield Community Neighborhood Association, REC.
Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on one minute.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
This came in front of you?
Do you want to tell us what the results were?
Oh, the results were, I don't have the exact, but I did send in the letter of support.
Majority voted to support this project.
Thank you very much.
I'm trying to get the owner on now.
Carol Spurlock, please.
carol spurlock please raise your virtual hand and wait to be sworn in and promoted
miss spurlock rejoin yeah they'll be rejoining as a panelist thank you very much
hello can you hear me i can could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer
i am so sorry my name is carol spurlock it's c-a-r-o-l last name s as in sand p as in paul
u-r-l-o-c-k we're referring to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
Yes, I do.
This application is for the use to family household living in an existing structure.
The proposed to family household living is prohibited in the RSA 5.
The proposed two-family household living is prohibited in the RSA-5 zoning district.
Could you turn your video on, please?
I am trying.
I am new at this.
I can see you, but I don't know how to.
Let me see.
I don't know where to go.
do you see um oh video maybe that's it
okay there you go but now i'm not on the big screen i only see little small screens that's
is this okay i think we're okay we see you there and then what we're going to do is you're going
to go back in and show your documents right so the proposed use of two family household living
is prohibited in the RSA 5 zoning district.
Our vice chair has just a few questions for you, ma'am, okay?
Good morning, ma'am.
Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits
that's needed to proceed with this case
five days in advance of this hearing?
Thank you.
You can proceed and share your screen.
I think you've shared it already.
You can continue on with the presentation.
Okay, so I can go to my Google screen, right?
The presentation.
okay yes okay let's see
just one second i am so sorry hold on no no no it's okay
i don't know google i'm so nervous how about that zba at the top zba hearing what's that
i'm getting i think it's coming up hold on please okay sure
and money just tell us what you're trying to do i am at at this time it is my home is
a single family dwelling and i'm trying to set it to a two family dwelling to be able to rent
the properties at both levels.
I don't know.
did you put your documents in a file yes they are no so go back to your original file
yeah go back to where you originally were
take your time by the way i'm i'm sorry um
where's my google i have one you go back to that original page you had in me where
where all your documents were okay yeah i don't think you need to be going on google
um well the slides were on google i thought they would just pop up
hit desktop
desktop
over there to the left
my left
desktop
it says google presentation
oh alright
no that's not what I want
is it the file that says google slides
I've had that before.
Hit that one there.
But it didn't open up.
I think I'm...
See, but it doesn't open up to the hold.
All right.
How about those 13 slides?
All right.
Let me bring it up here.
Excuse me, Bill from IT.
Could you please assist?
I am here, however, she would need to know where her slides are stored, that I would not know.
Okay, so it's not, it's not Google. It's not going to be Google. Okay. So go back to the
front screen again, please. Okay. Google slides. You have to close that part out. Oh.
Excuse me, Chair, it's absolutely your call, but if you would like to just come back to this case in order for her to find her exhibits first.
Here's what we're going to do. We're going to go through our cases. I'll come back to you.
We're going to go through our cases. I'll come back to you and then we'll see if we can't find where your slides are.
And you take your time, try to find them and I'll be back to you in about an hour.
OK. Oh, an hour. OK. OK. All right. OK. Thank you. Thank you.
All right. Number number 12.
MI 2024. Are you going to have to. Could you go off the screen for us, please?
yes chair i'll do that now i got it
mi 2024 003 509 1352 south 30 street uh tehran moment is the tenant applicant
to run moment please raise your virtual hand
he also has counsel
with him too
okay they will be rejoining as a
panama short
the council will be rejoining as well
Sure. Hello. Hi. You're Mr. Moment? Yes, sir. Okay. I'm going to wait for your counsel. Your
counsel is going to make a presentation. Okay. Your lawyer. Okay. Thank you.
Good morning. Good morning. My name is Bill Keffer.
And Mr. Kepra, if I remember correctly, you already were sworn, right?
Correct, sir.
Right.
So this application is for use as a prepared food shop on the first floor with the 16 single family household living above.
A prepared food shop requires special exception approval in the CMX1 zoning district.
um there's a recommendation of support from the tasker morris neighbors association
and our vice chair has just a few questions for you sir
good morning counsel do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy
yes i do have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to perceive
in this case five days in advance of this hearing believe that mr tehran has done so yes
Thank you, counsel. Please proceed and share your screen.
So if I may, Julian Lutz, who is a Penn Law student, is assisting Mr. Mammo as well.
He is able to share his screen.
All right, you'll testify off the screen, okay?
Okay. And and Mr. Mr. Memo is prepared to move forward and explain and make his presentation as well. So, Mr. Memo, if you wanted to go ahead and explain everything that you're looking for.
Well, let's let's let's let's get the documents up first. Whoever has the documents, please put them up.
I would like video access if possible, because I have Mr. Mr. Moments documents available on my screen if needed.
give mr what's the opportunity to put the documents up thank you yeah he's kind of
so he should be able to do that okay um yes um excuse me sorry chair okay yep it's coming up
noon so so council either you or mr moment will be the ones to make the presentation okay
That's fine.
Mr. Moment, would you please proceed?
All right, Mr. Moment, please do me a favor.
State your name and spell for the court stenographer.
Yes, my name is Teron Moment.
That is T-E-H-R-O-N.
Last name is Moment, M-O-M-E-N-T.
We're firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
Yes, sir.
Please proceed and share your screen.
your screen okay uh well can i go off uh mr let's his screen yeah that's what i'm saying you're
going to testify off his screen right can you see it yes sir all right please proceed okay so this
right here uh this is the the address 1352 south 30th street uh which was previously a convenience
store um i would like to uh have a variance to be able to sell coffee and um donuts uh danishes
croissants uh prepared food items um this is the corner street uh exit i'm at the
prepared food items. This is the corner street exit. I'm at the corner street side
picture where I placed the zoning board notice along with the refusal on the front of the
building and on the side of the building. This is the 30th street side build part.
And the other picture that he just showed was the Reed Street side.
i have pictures of the interior as well if relevant no why not so so sir why don't we do
this like miss it please put up the interior slides okay there's one picture tell us to run
tell us what you're doing there yes sir uh well back here this is the back uh the back of the
store um back here would be the station where you will be able to purchase coffee and smoothies and
other prepared food items
do you have any other photos
this is the store
this is the left side of the store
like I said this was once a convenience store
this is the left side of the
area where it would be groceries
and other items that you would be able to
buy out of a convenience store
maybe cereal
uh bread stuff and stuff of that nature thank you this is the right side this is the right side
where the refrigerators are as well as the other side of the shelf where it'll be beverages milk
uh eggs and stuff of that nature
your honor your honor if i chairman if i may ask a quick question
And, Mr. Moment, your hours of operation, what will they be?
The hours of operation would be from 7 in the morning until 7 in the evening.
I'm sorry.
And do you have any other experience in the food service, you know, business?
Me and my family, we own a hoagie shop right down the street called Vito's Hoagie.
We've been in operation for four years right now.
um we're pretty much a big staple in the community great and did you did you go to
the community organization did you get approval yes sir and which that that letter i believe
has been submitted to the board okay i think that's i think you have your honor i i believe
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. We have it.
Anything else, Mr. Moment, that you wanted to share?
I mean, not really. It's just I would like to be able to just sell prepared food in there.
The biggest thing would be to be able to sell the coffee and a variety of smoothies at this location.
oh and you're sorry i apologize your landlord has uh consented to this yes uh i have the uh
lease um as well as a letter of approval for me going through uh the zoning process
and has anybody told you of an objection or voiced any opinions of not wanting this no sir
okay questions from the board
questions or comments from our attorney no chair questions or comments from the virtual audience
I'm sorry Mr. Chair I do not see any hands at this time
Planning Commission.
Thank you, Chairman, and good morning, David Fechtow with the City Planning Commission.
Chairman and board members, the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the CMX1 commercial mixed-use zoning at this location.
The appellant has shown the proposed prepared food shop will have no detrimental impacts to the neighborhood beyond what might be expected.
The City Planning Commission recommends the board grant the proposed special exception for a prepared food shop.
in my 2024-003-509-1352 South 30th Street I vote yes Michael Johns my vote is yes
oh Gaston my vote is yes Canada Graham my vote is yes
everyone my vote is yes Ishmael Shaheed my vote is yes thank you counsel
thank you appreciate it thank you thank you all for your time
thank you so much
Thank you so much.
thank you thank you we appreciate it
Thank you.
Thank you.
We appreciate it.
thank you very much
Thank you very much.
All right.
Thank you, sir.
Number two, MI 2023-004-486-7201 Marsden Street.
Sherman Toppin is the attorney.
There is a letter of opposition from Northeast Philadelphia Development Corporation.
Six opposed, four in support.
They'll be coming back on as a panel, sir.
good morning Mr. Toppin good morning Mr. Chair good morning Mr. Chair members of the board
it's a pleasure to be with for you today I'd like to present our case would you state your
name for the record and and spell for the court stenographer not we don't know who you are yes my
My name is Sherman Toppin, S-H-E-R-M-A-N, last name Toppin, T-O-P-P-I-N, address 1800 JFK Boulevard, suite 300.
You swear or firm to tell the truth to hold truth to nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client and relationship to this property?
Yeah, my client is Letitia D. Scott.
She should be on the call at this time we spoke prior to, so she should be hanging around on the call at one of these.
And our vice chair has just a few questions, sir.
good morning counsel do you agree to wait to read another refusal or stipulate towards accuracy
yes have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to
proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing i have i have thank you counsel
good to see you please proceed and share your screen okay i believe you should be seeing my
screen at this moment yes we're good okay all right so we're here to talk about um 7201 mars
Street. This is a property in the Northeast area of Philadelphia. This is the, as you see on my
typical exhibits, this is a picture of the outside as you can take a look at it there.
Our, my typical exhibits have 14 tabs. I'll move through them and we'll discuss the property
alongside. This is a refusal for an assembly and entertainment. This is a, in this particular
zoning code of the property is zoned currently CMX1, and it requires a zoning variance to use
it as a catering hall. It's a small, one-story property, as you've seen, and in an existing
structure, no repairs need to be made, no modifications of it. The property was previously
used as a dance studio. I think the previous tenant was a dance studio before my client
purchased the property. She saw that during that time it was the uses as a dance studio had, of
course, children in and out, back and forth. They were doing events of all kinds there during that
time. My client purchased it with the belief and understanding that it could be used in a similar
way. She does not want to use it as a dance studio per se, but she wants to use it as a small catering
hall, no more than 75 persons. Her hours of operation will be in the neighborhood of eight
in the morning to no later than 12 pm at night and she will have this uh operated as a there's
no there's it's not a bar as neighbors have thought it's not a it's not going to be a
speakeasy it's going to be exactly what she said it would be a small neighborhood catering hall
and that is what she's desiring so as i'll move through our exhibits number one we have our deed
i'll push through that uh our second her application for appeal she initiated this
project this um application pro se and engaged me in the last hearing after last hearing as she
desired the need for representation at that time our project information sheet is here attached
uh exhibit number five kind of shows you exactly what we're looking at here in this particular
area cmx1 you can see there are cms1 properties on many of the corners as this area was developed
there would be corner stores or neighborhood use type of properties at the corners with residential
of homes in the in the interior and that's what we see here this is no different um so here it's
it's right there at the edge um and and because she wants to do a neighborhood serving catering
hall a small neighborhood serving catering hall it kind of it fits within the character of what
was envisioned when the cmx1 was was actually uh permitted in these corners of this of this
neighborhood let's look at a visual of an aerial as you can see here this is the property here with
this blue balloon and the property has a even though it has a small driveway in the back
my client owns also this property at the front that faces on torsdale avenue
and so basically this parking lot that's already paid will be servicing
and so basically this parking lot that's already paid will be servicing any particular parking
that might be needed for those coming to the catering hall um in addition additionally any
trash that will be stored will be stored back here out of view and out of the presence of anybody
that potentially could um you know none of the neighbors can see or or experience any visual
of any trash that will be stored in the back so parking um trash are basically taken care of as
far as that there will be security lighting as well as security cameras around the perimeter of
the property so as we go into the inside of the property this is what we look at this is the um
the front door and that's all you got here you have an open space with mirrors um on on the first
floor here's a reverse of the same of the same room already done it was done like this before
this is a hallway outside of that main catering hall area and then also as you move down this is
a this is a sort of a back this this is a side door um behind that um big that main room this
is the other side uh like a little lounge area outside of this main room this is a view of what
the bathrooms look like and going downstairs this is what you see there um again mirrored room just
a small room um with nothing there there's no fixtures there's no um by no means will this be
any kind of a speakeasy type of place this is going to be a catering hall a large smaller
units smaller occasions will be upstairs larger occasions might occupy the up and the downstairs
depending and that is exactly what you have just a small room here utilities are downstairs as well
one of those closets and this is the rear um the driveway is right here and the driveway opens to
this door which leads to that we saw the space earlier in a different picture sort of a prep
area in the back that can also be used for small um gatherings if if need be so that is that is
the picture of the property again this is before she got involved it's all cleaned up now and not
like this as we can see but this is the this is what we're looking for now as far as plans let
me make this a little bit smaller so you can take a look we just we've just seen it nothing major
here the plans that we've got basically lay out the exact same space we've seen pictures here is
the first floor here's the lower floor is just a single open room the top floor is a again a single
open room with a side lounge and a staging area envisioned and this is the driveway very simple
straightforward and not much more um to be you know to be seen so as we move down through this
we have our we sent our rco notices out to the community this is our notice exhibit nine shows
the 112 applicants that we sent it out to these are the addresses of those folks exhibit 10 shows
the proof of mail goes on for many pages proof of mail for all of those this is the
The zoning notice is our exhibit number, our exhibit number 11, and our exhibit 12 is basically showing the proof of posting of that hearing notice of this ZBA notice at the community.
So let's talk about what happened at the actual RCO meeting. Now, the RCO meeting for this particular property was not very well attended.
There was the board and there was, I think, one neighbor from the community, which is a woman who lived immediately next door.
During that RCO meeting, there was lots of talk from that woman about the previous person.
She had no complaints about my client in particular, just the previous use and the corner property where the building has been abandoned, will close for many years.
And there's been intruders in the building that faces Toursdale that my client also owns.
So much of the talk was not about this structure at all or about the use at all.
It was more that.
And so with only one person from the near as a neighbor there, she voiced an opposition, but there was not any other members of the community in opposition of this very simple and normal use.
Now, the now the one of the members of the board of the RCO had a lot of conversation about the parking lot and whether or not the parking lot needed to be a part of this application and him misunderstanding what we were here for.
and our issue because my client owns both properties that are contiguous and adjacent
and that parking lot will be used for any overflow needed there was a question there was talk of that
but other than that we feel that there should have been opposite there should have been a support
from the community from the rco standpoint um surprised that they went with a split but i can
from what i can see and from what the rco meeting presented there was only one single
and from what the rco meeting presented there was only one single family and there was two i guess
two persons who were in that in that same household it should have counted for a single vote um in
opposition other than that it was just the board so we don't have a scenario where there's much
opposition as though as the letter of opposition might might show but we would like at this time
um to bring on my client to talk a little bit about her experiences with this catering hall
what she's envisioning there to adopt my testimony and to ask any questions that the board might have
so mr toppen before we go on there's no cooking in the in the location no no cooking no cooking
there's this food will be brought to the location food will be brought uh outside caterers will be
if for the event is basically a hollow space so as you can see your honor i mean mr mr chair
and uh any food service will be brought there and and warmed up there in sternos if you will
Why don't you bring your client on?
We'd like to invite Ms. Letitia Scott, if she could be advanced to panelists as well.
They've been allowed to speak.
Good morning.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Good morning, everyone.
My name is Letitia D. Scott, L-A-T-I-S-H-A-S-C-O-T-T.
Well, how do you do?
Tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Yes, I do.
Please proceed, counsel.
Yes, Ms. Scott, you've been listening to my testimony, and I just wanted to ask you a few questions before you adopt what I've said thus far.
You will be the owner and operator of this catering business. Is that correct?
Yes, it is.
And currently, what is your business activities? What is your background?
Currently, I am a child care provider. I've been doing so since 2011.
So I've been caring for children for roughly 14 years.
Prior to that, my focus was I worked in the financial business and banking for 15 years.
I left that to start to care for children.
I've always been in some type of service of business.
So like when I worked in banking, people trusted me with their money.
I've educated people with credit.
I've always poured in or taught people, always made an impact with my clients and in my community.
So that, you know, led to when I became a parent and I saw the things that I saw for my children in child care that empowered me to want to open my own daycare facility.
So I left the financial institution field and opened my own business.
And it's been great taking care of children. I have encountered hundreds of children, family, mothers, friends, so forth and so on.
And I have learned that there's a need and a lot of people want to have parties for their children.
they look for places to have baby showers um and their houses can't you know fit everybody
we have families and they don't have enough space so back in the day shall I say we used to use like
the churches or like maybe our gyms and community centers and unfortunately there's not many of
those things still available to us so with encountering those things being invited to stuff
um caring for children and they're having a bunch of parties and I'm hearing the parents communicate
Like, oh, my God, do you know anybody that has a place?
I really want to give her a party.
I really want to have this 60th birthday dinner for my mom where, you know, I'm turning 30.
I wish I had somewhere to have it because my house isn't big enough.
Hearing those things over the years, that led me to my next venture.
OK, so you own this property and the property adjacent to it that fronts on Toursdale as well.
Yeah, so what's very unique about that is that I purchased this property first.
and then um i saw the parking lot and i saw the i didn't know that the house was connected so
maybe a year and a half later the owner um came over to me and was like you know introducing
himself and i was talking to him and lo and behold he was about to sell the property so i'm like oh
my god like that would be awesome if i get parking to pair with this event space when people have
something they'll even have somewhere to park that'll be like so much more convenient okay let
Let me ask you about the hours of operation. When do you envision the hours to be of use for the catering space that you're interested in doing?
I honestly don't think anything would occur in the early morning from my experiences with baby showers and like dinners, maybe like a brunch.
So I don't foresee anything before 10 a.m. I don't really have people that get up that early.
They want to have a bit that early. So maybe it might be decorators coming in around 10 a.m.
But most of the time people have like brunches, baby showers.
I've had a couple of calls for like repasses and things of that nature.
So I would honestly say probably around 10 a.m. in the morning.
And absolutely nothing will occur after 11 a.m.
after 11 a.m my my intention you mean 11 p.m okay so yes I would like for everything to end
My intention.
You mean 11 a.m.?
You mean 11 a.m.?
um honestly by that time to be cleared out and locked up for my own safety I would like to
travel home as soon as possible I would like my staffing and anyone that assists with the events
to be leaving um at the safest hours possible so I don't enjoy being out late so I don't want to
have the type of events that run too late to be quite honest okay and then and RCO meeting you
did have some conversation. You fielded some questions about the use of the space. As far as
your experience there during the RCO meeting, what were some of the comments that you encountered
as you now realize they have sent a letter of opposition? What were some of the things that
concerned you about that proceeding? Well, I actually thought that everything was great. I
was super shocked that I was the only person on the dare. So I was like nervous because like the
whole night was just me. To see the one person show up, I mean, I felt great about that because
I've heard 100 and something people. I have talked to people in the community. I have met
the person that owns the printing company across the street. Him and I are really, really cool when
we see each other. We talk. I've encountered a few people in the neighborhood. It's really hard
to know everyone because I'm not able to be there, which is the goal to be more present once my
businesses I've been running hopefully but um the people that they were happy that I had brought
this but the meeting I felt like the the young lady was a little more frustrated with the house
and I think that when she found out that I was the owner of both she focused a lot of her
frustration on the the the dumping and the intruders and the violations and things of that
nature and as I explained to her even on this particular building you know one of my windows
was broken by children i was not playing and i told her like you know i i clean up everything
i've i've been a victim as well but i am your neighbor and i am in your community and together
if i can get the businesses up and running and we get present in activity um i'll be able to
decrease that stuff because i've had to board up the property i've had to clean it up i've had
weekly trash removal done there i keep the grass cut like she was more concerned about that house
that there wasn't really a lot of attention given to the beauty of the vision that i had for this
particular speak and i felt like that they just didn't um really pay attention to morrison street
they were more focused on the house and we just weren't there for that property that day
so i just i don't i think that it wasn't really fair that they didn't stick to the property that
was asking for because once they roll out I own both properties um it just wasn't fair attention
to the specifics of that debt okay well I appreciate that that feedback and the board I'm
sure could ask any follow-up questions they may have about that but but you heard me testify before
I asked you these questions and I just wanted to know if you if anything if you adopted testimony
that I've made on your behalf up to the point that you began testifying oh absolutely I think it was
very very very honest um exactly executed my vision and what I would like to do for the
community and just everyone I I feel like it is a need um as you stated it was a dance studio with
a ton of traffic and children and you know music activity I'm sure they probably put on shows I
have two daughters and myself that participate in dance so I'm familiar with what goes on um
and I don't think anything that I'm doing is going to be different um probably going to be
less traffic because it's not a daily operation and it'll just be used as needed and as booked
so I'm hoping that the people in the neighborhood will need it um benefit from it and I have a lot
of things that I would like to do for the community as a child care provider that just
naturally comes to me um and I'm actually excited and I think they'll love the things that I want
to do so okay and you you would you'd adopt my testimony as your own um that i said before you
come on is that correct yes well this time there's any further questions for members of the board
questions questions from the board i have one yeah go ahead oh okay um i didn't it was could
you tell me how many exits it is from the basement i believe you said that there were maybe some
events the event space may be expended expanded to the basement if they're large how many exits
were there in the basement there's the one exit from the basement there's a set of steps on the
side um that have been encased so on the side of the building where you see it kind of like
bulge out i guess or come out there are that is a set of steps and there is an emergency door
that you can use from the basement that would allow you to come right outside and then there's
the other original brown colored steps that you would exit with as well so there's two exits from
the basement from the lower level and you go to the plans so right okay right
can you go to the plans so right okay right no okay i'm i'm heading right there now let me make
this smaller is that in full view for everyone right so there's one stair from the basement
that enters through the staging area right and then here it goes upstairs to the entrance to
exits to the driveway yes thank you question um alcohol there's no liquor license for this
property there's no liquor license application for this property so there's no bar as you can
see structure here it will be just as my client said it it'll be simply a rented space for uh
gatherings that are and that folks uh bring in so how does that how does that work with the byob
at this point she's not i haven't i haven't understood that she's looking to do byob type
of events at the space i guess my question is um is a by it could a by could somebody have an event
and do a BYOB within this zoning classification?
And maybe that's a question.
I see.
I understand.
Generally, for BYOB restaurants, and this is not particularly that,
I probably would let my client explain what her vision is
and how she would like to proceed with that.
But I don't think that we have not had any discussions about alcohol at this point.
So, Ms. Scott, you're here. You're answering the question of the board is, is there an immediate desire for you to have BOIB or alcohol-related events at your space?
To be quite honest with everyone, that is not my desire at all. I have no intention of serving alcohol. I really don't like the effects of alcohol. I do not wish for my facility to be damaged. Let me just leave that with that.
I am concerned as well as anyone else. The intake of alcohol and the capacity in which people
could become intoxicated. I don't want my glass broken. I don't want any accidents. So
I tend to not put myself in situations that could lead to stuff like that. It doesn't mean it'll be
100% avoidable, but that's not my thought when I think about that. As I stated, like children's
parties, repasses,
baby showers, maybe
even a brunch.
I'm not
trying to sell alcohol. I'm not
applying for a liquor license. I don't
really know how BYOBs work because
that's the only, I only see those things
in like restaurants. So I'm
not really knowledgeable in that. I've
always thought that you
bars dealt with that stuff and if people wanted
to drink, they can just go to bars.
don't plan on offering that stuff
because i don't i don't want to feel the effects of it if people are um intoxicated which is why
i'm not trying to open that type of establishment all right thank you um and you mentioned at the
meeting that people kept focusing on the house and i'm not sure what you were referring to is
this what you're the building is that what you're calling the house no so i'll show you i'll show
you it's this um mr johns this it's this structure right here at the front facing on toursdale it's
immediately to the rear on the other side of the parking lot this structure here has been uh a
property that has been vacant many years before my client purchased it and this people have gone in
there people have broken into this property and it has been known as a property where there's been
activity of that kind here and that's what the the neighbors were concerned about gotcha so so
So the property in question is the one that has the L shape, right?
Yes, yes.
This is the subject property.
The lot that's right behind that.
Exactly.
And then the house is the house in the corner.
Gotcha.
This one here, yes.
Thank you.
Any other questions from the board?
I guess I'm a little confused about this model.
Have you done this kind of catering service before?
You said you were in banking.
You said you were in child care. Have you done anything like this before?
Yes, I actually have for maybe the last three years, especially during COVID.
I've assisted with planning a lot of events. I've used other venues.
I have friends that are balloon decorators, caterers. I've jumped in to help them.
I plan tons of baby showers. My daycare center actually takes up two buildings and I have turned my daycare center into the very thing that I'm trying to create here.
and have had tons of birthday parties for the children that attend here.
I've done it for my own children, and I enjoy it.
And I enjoy it. It's fun. I like to see people, you know, celebrate themselves.
It's fun.
I like to see people, you know, celebrate.
And having done so with my current my current child care space, which is roughly 2200 square feet.
I saw this as a great opportunity to be able to just focus in.
I've also hosted a plethora of pop up shops, which is when you bring in different vendors, different people to have their own services or products.
And, you know, everyone is not fortunate enough to have a storefront.
So I've given those opportunities to those people by hosting my pop-up shops and allowing, you know, people that are starting out with candles and clothing lines and different things like that.
They've been able to start their brands and branch out on their brands and make money and, you know, come together as a community.
That is very fun and very beneficial for everyone in the neighborhood, as well as people that are, you know, jumping out on faith and starting their own brand.
So, yeah, I've done it a lot, honestly.
So you have put together these kinds of things at other locations.
Is that what you're saying?
Yes, as well as my own.
I have a daycare center that is two buildings, and I've done it.
Well, that's another location, not this one.
That's what I need.
Yes, ma'am.
And I guess I'm having a problem with visualizing how this works.
You say you're going to have caterers bring in things, but I don't see a kitchen area.
I don't see any place where there would be some way for them to keep this food and prepare and serve this food.
How does this, how is this going to work exactly?
I don't see sinks. I don't see anything that would look like that.
It's compatible with the food service that you're talking about.
Okay. So normally how is this going to work?
Normally when people rent spaces, event spaces, just like at church gatherings and things of that nature or community event centers.
we use schools gymnasiums we've done so I've attended just like my children have events at
their schools people bring the food and it is a prepared from outside person people have I don't
have any problem with that that's not that's not my problem okay my problem is the food is prepared
outside but you're bringing it into a space and you have to have some place for this caterer to
set up this food service so that it would be available to be served to whoever is coming to
this event. So the question is, I don't see anything in here that looks like a kitchen
prep area of some sort where this caterer, they need, whether they're bringing food in from
outside or not, they need some way to wash their hands. They need to have some way to
provide basic sanitation services and what have you, keeping this food cold if it's cold food,
hot if it's hot food. Where is that going to take place in here? Okay, so the setup is actually up
to the attendee, if I could maybe extra envision, like maybe a cookout, when you see the sternos,
they have the trays that they bring in, they place the sternos on there, they're encased,
and you simply just use a lighter, and it lights up the sternos, and the food is kept warm in that
way. They have really nice fancy ones that they bring out with lids and everything, and it is a
very fabulous layout. The same with if you have a cookout, just to give a more example, you have
the the pasta solid and you have the seafood solid and you know um when you think of people
out in the park and we have our family gatherings and family reunions we bring the food out to the
park it's the same kind of thing i do have two bathrooms with two working things so being able
to wash their hands or excess water is definitely not an issue as far as spacing they have an
entire room i also have a lobby area that is very very um more than enough space for them to set up
food sometimes it's just
brought into the space
it's not they'll be there for maybe
a five or six hour window
so in thinking of food
they're bringing in maybe
four or five dishes
they're serving these dishes
and then everything goes in the trash
so it's not
one of those things where they're not
cooking on site that thing
that is already prepared by the
professionals that they hired to
prepare their food so
prepare their food so you still they use the sternos and keeping it cold they'll put food on
So, they use the sternal.
ice though um there's a ton of different things that people use to keep food cold when they travel
and then they set it up how they set it up and that's the that's the point of having a caterer
because they bring in the things that they need to do they use sterno baskets and they use the
heating devices to heat the food. They don't. You're talking about the heating. There's still
the, you have to, you have to keep hot food's hot, cold food's cold. And I don't see anything
in this that, you know, sternos are for warming up maybe. I'm not quite sure how that works
when you're talking about the windows of time
that you're talking about,
particularly when we're talking about cold foods.
I also have the question, let's get past that.
And you're saying, I think Board Member Johns
was talking about BYOB,
but if the caterer is bringing things,
will one of the things they bring for these different events be liquor?
I will say, let me just interject here, you know, Ms. Gaston, you have asked several questions.
If a client wants to rent this space, if they're renting it as it is, it's not for my client to
prepare their food or to determine whether their food is hot or kept cold during their,
It is simply an open, empty shell for people to rent. And they will know if they want to use it or not. It's not, I don't think that the requirement, it sounds as though you're sort of wandering around whether or not this is a suitable for catering. And it is, it is suitable for the kinds of catering.
That's not my question. My question is, as you're basically saying, you're going to be
renting this space for discrete periods of time to someone who will bring in their own caterer.
And then this caterer somehow is going to be providing this food, providing whatever
refreshments and what have you at the behest of whoever this is that's running this space.
Regardless of that, if you're doing this, at some point there has to be some health concerns
about who these people are, how is this going to work in terms of a space where I'm not seeing
what would be, whether you were, if you were doing this in your house, you're doing this in
any other kind of facility. If you're talking about doing it in a school, there are facilities
there. There's a kitchen, there's facilities. If you're doing this in this daycare center, my
assumption would be that there's some kind of kitchen or some kind of way that you can
provide a space for this caterer to do the prep and what have you, and the maintenance of this
food while this event is going on. I'm not seeing that here. And that's my concern. Okay.
So Sherman, I think we're at an impasse here. I think we're,
our, Cheryl's basically saying there's nothing there to make this safe and whatever. And you're
saying that, well, I'm just
writing a space and it's up to Cater
to do what he does. So I think we're in an
impasse there. And I think what I'm going to
do with this is we're going to continue on,
see where planning is, and then I'm going to take it
back next week and we'll have a longer
discussion in our executive session.
Okay? Is there any other questions
from the board?
Would I be able to add anything?
Why don't we move
on, Sherman? I mean, I think
I think she's tried
to answer that question three times and
And I don't think she's answered it to where Cheryl Gaston is.
So we're going to move on with that.
I do have another question, I guess.
Two questions I have is looking at the plan.
How is the lounge that's listed on the plan intended to be used?
And then two, are there going to be people allowed to park in the driveway if they are utilizing the space as like visitors or attendees to the events?
Absolutely.
The driveway is actually great for the parking, for the decorators to come in because they may have a bunch of stuff.
Well, that's loading. I'm asking about parking. So not the decorators, not the catering drop-off.
I'm saying like if there's 40 people coming for a baby shower, you're going to have a line of cars of attendees to the baby shower party.
i you're going to have a line of cars of attendees to the baby shower party in this driveway
or is the anticipation that they're going to find street parking because they own the park a lot
next door why do you put that up yeah let me let me let me go back to that let me go back to that
picture so there's a yeah it is uh and it's exclusive to this right there this is the parking
line got it okay where the blue dot is is the is the driveway there's a driveway and our and
miss scott owns all of this so again this was a this was a dance studio fully fully active six
days a week and street parking and neighborhood parking was used and not this driveway and so
and not this and and this is not a new use um so the absorption of visitors to this site
and it's a small site though you know has already been crossed that bridge has been crossed that
that's already been proven that even without this parking lot it's sufficient with the additional
separate buildings on the larger parcel and we're talking about the just the one story
yes yes this is the this is that driveway is just with so the the subject parcel ends with this
driveway my client owns all of this so this is another 20 parking spaces here in addition to all
the street that's around so understood so what's the use in the building that's adjacent to the
parking lot currently it is vacant right now it's it's it's single it's basically single family
but it's vacant right now that's the house but i'm saying that the structure that is parallel to the
parking lot oh the structure here she also owns oh no that's that that is the house this she owns
this whole section so this is the white building that's behind it is not part of the subject
property this building here no go back to the parking lot okay here just above where your
cursor is so yeah this is the client this is oh no oh thank you no this is a totally separate
site this is a totally separate site oh it doesn't have nothing to do with you nothing to do with
it it's just the house the parking lot yes it's just it's just this and the parking lot is going
to be allowed for parking there as well i understand and then for people to sort of get
into where where's the main entrance because right here looking at the plans right now
let me go back to our pictures right here i saw the photos but like how are people getting from
the parking lot to the front entrance right here the parking lot is where this car is
they're just walking around let me just come down the driveway is there any protection that's going
to be put up to separate the parking lot from the loading dock and the driveway there will
no new construct no construction to the site it is as it is people are just going to park and
walk in this door right here that is they could use the other door there's one side door here
there's actually four ways to get in so that door there the front door and there are two
go can you go down to go down to the other ones in the back right here and they could they could
go right into these doors as well because that
door enters into the
main ballroom and then that door
enters into the other room.
They have actually four different
ways to get into the first level.
And then are you
planning for commercial trash
pickup?
I'll do whatever the city requires
right now. They require me to pay
the city
trash fee and my trash is
picked up by the city.
whatever that I have to do to remain in compliance I'm fine with
I'm just pretty much doing what they tell me I have to do
so I pay the fee and they instruct me to put my trash out with the regular city trash
if there's a different requirement that I need to meet
I have absolutely no problem with it. It would basically be in this area
here. But they told me based on the address
that my trash goes out with everybody else. They don't
commercial space any different i just have to pay the fee every year yeah i mean if you're
going to have people catering and bringing food and people leaving food in bags in the back you're
going to need independent pickup but i think just i would do want to second some of the things that
uh that board member gaston brought up so i think like that yes like you can rent this out as is
but i think because this is a use like you need a use permit from zoning and a lot of this will
be regulated by lni or the city but just from a use standpoint the way this is currently sort of
it is not in the best of the use so for us to come in and like evaluate use right now the way
it's set up is not sort of like the best way to i guess i guess i don't i don't under i don't
understand what what else would be needed as i've been in a lot of event spaces that had
What else would be needed? As I've been in a lot of event spaces that have a lot of restrictions, I don't have any of those things.
They don't have any stairs. They don't have any blockage. They can go straight from the parking lot to the front door.
It's very easy for people that may be elderly. I don't see it.
I don't see any blockage or any difficulty for anyone to enter or exit the building.
And it's like I said, there's no stairs, there's no far travel.
The parking lot is right there.
The street parking is right there.
I'm a little confused about.
Well, Ms. Scott, you've been clear on your vision.
And clearly this dance studio had significant a number of events for years before.
So I think the perspective of you doing this as new, it's not new.
They have been doing events in this space as it is for children and the dance studio
four years. Have they been serving food, though? They have been serving food, birthday parties,
kids' parties. No hand-washing stations. Everything is brought in. There's two bathrooms
there. So as far as hand-washing, there's two bathrooms servicing that main hall.
So that's... I think we have... Sherman, Sherman, I think that the client is in disagreement with
majority of the board, we're talking about
the board believes that
there should be a way to keep things
warm, keep things cool
and a place to wash your hands
with a sink. So I
think what we need to do is to
move on and we'll take all that into consideration
and we'll figure out
where we stand. Okay? Okay.
Questions from our attorney?
No, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments
from the virtual audience?
um yes chair i have a hand up from d dukes i've allowed them to speak okay
good morning could you please state your name and spell for the court tonight
okay hi this is d dukes d-e-e-d-u-k-e-s right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the
whole truth nothing but the truth yes are you a neighbor i am not a neighbor
Okay. Could you please start your testimony?
Sure. I just wanted to concur with what I believe board member Gaskin was asking.
There is that I can see no kitchen area.
I rent an event space and the event spaces have a smaller kitchen area with a sink separate from the bathroom sink.
for safety reasons, for hygienic reasons, there should be an area where businesses can come in,
hi, Dr. Witt, businesses can come in, rent that space with that area available. If it's not there,
this is not an acceptable use of an entertainment space for those purposes.
Mr. Toppin, do you have any questions? Yes, Ms. Chair. I don't, Ms. Dukes,
You said you are or are not a near neighbor.
I am not a near neighbor, but what I am, well, you want to-
Where do you reside, Ms. Dukes, and why are you here to pose?
So I am here to, they ask from the virtual audience, so I am, and I also represent RCOs within the city of Philadelphia.
Well, Mr. Chair, I don't think Ms. Dukes' testimony is applicable to our case at all.
I don't know why she has been.
Are you not a member?
Mr. Toppin, I will take what you say into consideration.
And Ms. Dukes, thank you for your testimony.
Anybody else in the virtual audience?
Yes, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Stantz.
Oh, he's saying it was ways, but he's not put it down now.
So wait, wait, wait. It's back up again. Okay. He's up. Stan Chawinski.
Stan, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
My name is Stan Chawinski, S-T-A-N-C-Y-W-I-N-S-K-I. I am the zoning director for the Sixth Council District.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, Mr. Chawinski.
The 6th Council District does not support the application for assembly and entertainment.
Thank you.
Thank you for your comments.
Anyone else in the virtual audience?
No further hands, Mr. Chair.
Planning Commission.
Thank you, Chairman, and good morning, David Fecto with the City Planning Commission.
Chairman and board members, the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the...
Chairman and board members, the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the CMX1 commercial mixed-use zoning at this location.
The appellant should have applied for an event assembly facility rather than assembly and entertainment.
Either way, both types of uses are allowed with a special exception in CMX2, but not allowed in CMX1.
There is no unique physical condition of this property that would prevent it from being used in conformance with the zoning code.
The City Planning Commission recommends that the board deny the proposed use variants for assembly and entertainment.
Mr. Toppin, as I told you earlier, I will meet with the board next week.
We will vote on this next Wednesday at 930 a.m.
Can I ask one last question, Mr. Chair?
There seems to be here. I seem to hear an unwillingness to consider a kitchen or a place to wash, to have a refrigerator.
There seems to be an unwillingness for that. And I don't understand that. I don't understand that.
I don't think there's an unwillingness, Mr. Johnson. We are willing. We are willing to modify it.
Could there be a commitment to do that, to have a real kitchen where somebody can come and wash plates and whatever, you know, if you're catering something, you're bringing something in pans and something falls on the floor, you don't want to have somebody run to the bathroom, clean it off, wait for somebody to get off the toilet, clean it off and bring it back out and stick it in somebody's food.
There seems to be this unwillingness to consider that.
So I think Michael and I think Sherman, I think everybody on the board had a question about that.
And I don't think your client, I think your client thinks the way it is, is the way she wants it.
And it's perfect.
So I think that's why I'm going to hold this and let every board member, although they've all had something to say, but we'll vote on this next Wednesday at 930.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Board.
Thank you, Mr. Board.
Thank you, Mr. Board.
Thank you, Mr. Board.
Thank you.
Thank you.
All right, let's see here. Number 14, MI 2024-003-533-4153 Mantua Avenue.
Meredith Ferliger is the attorney. There was no RCO in this case. Council Member Gauthier's office handled that. Their office acted as the coordinating RCO and facilitated a required community meeting. No one showed up, and they are not in opposition to this application.
Meredith Ferliger should be coming back in as a panelist for me, Mr. Chair.
Good morning, counsel. Could you please state your name and spell for the court's stenographer?
Meredith Ferliger, F-E-R-L-E-G-E-R.
Are you a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Would you identify your client in a relationship to the property?
Sure. My client is Mascoff, LLC, the owner of the property, and that's represented today by Serge Maslanikov.
Vice Chair has a few questions.
Good morning, Counsel. Do you agree to wait the reading of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?
have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed with this case
five days in advance of this hearing uh yes i did thank you council please proceed you've already
shared your screen wonderful well good morning mr chairman members of the board again meredith
ferliger of delworth paxton the request before the board today concerns 4153 mantua avenue
You have an exhibit packet in front of you that contains 16 exhibits, which we will request be moved into evidence at the conclusion of the presentation today.
To briefly summarize the basis for today's request, my client purchased this property in September of 2023.
During his due diligence process leading up to that September sheriff sale, my client discovered the vacant parcel at 4153 Mantua Avenue that was zoned RM1, which would have permitted the development before you today.
Given the dense multifamily uses surrounding this property, he jumped on the opportunity, having no idea that a rezoning had recently been effectuated.
As the board may know, there is unfortunately no efficient way to search whether a rezoning is pending for any particular property at any given time.
As the board may know, there is unfortunately no efficient way to search.
The sheriff's office did not deliver his deed until January of 2024.
When he was finally in a position to move the application forward, he only then discovered that the maps had finally been updated to reflect that the rezoning had occurred in the most unfortunate timing.
With that brief background in mind, let me first orient you to the location of this property.
As always, the deed from the Sheriff's Office is included at Exhibit 2, and you can see again
that that was not recorded until January of 2024, and tax clearance is at Exhibit 2.
As you can see on the aerials, let me zoom out just a little bit. As you can see on the aerials
that I've shown at Exhibit 8. This property sits on a very long stretch of Mantua Avenue between
North 41st Street and North 42nd Street. These aerials are slightly outdated, as you will see
in street-level photographs, as you can only see two of the variety of new construction that has
actually been built on this block. The block is largely made up of a mix of single-family homes
to the east and new multi-family developments to the west. From the southeast view, you'll see the
rail lines that border all of these properties along Mantua Avenue, just to the rear of all
these homes. As you'll see in the presentation today, my client did take the proximity of the
rail lines into consideration when he designed this project.
Turning to the photographs at Exhibit 16, you'll see the existing vacant lot that is subject of
today's request that sits between existing three-story brick structures, and you can see
that on either side here. These photos also reveal a closer look at the varied character of this
particular block, with some of the newer construction identified in this photograph. And
again, you would have noticed earlier in the aerials that they were not yet reflected in that
aerial overhead, but they are now constructed, and you can see that here. Turning towards North
41st Street, you'll see that the character of this block shifts about mid-block to two-story,
mostly single-family homes, with the exception of a new four-unit development that you can see
just a couple of structures in here. And you can also notice that there's actually a natural
separation in this block. You may be able to see this small alley that separates the three-story
from the predominantly two-story structures. This is important because the district plan for this
area did recommend a rezoning, but that district plan identified that rezoning as being necessary
to preserve the existing single family, which again largely only exists on the eastern half
of this block on the east side of this alley division.
Across the street, you'll see a few structures that face in a northern direction on Mantua
Avenue.
And again, if you look towards North 42nd Street, you'll glean that half of this block really largely remains vacant, while the north side of the street has become more recently developed.
And again, you can see the zoning posters that were timely posted also in the exhibit packet here.
And you'll notice that there is a fairly steep incline as you lead up to this lot.
Looking at the zoning map at Exhibit 5, you'll see that this property is now zoned RSA 5.
As I alluded to earlier, and as I did include in the packet at Exhibit 9,
this property and the block were subject of a rezoning that occurred in 2023.
that re-zoned this block from RM1 to RSA5 while leaving the corners at North 41st Street and
North 42nd Street, zone CMX2. Directly behind the property is zoned I2, which largely accommodates
the rail lines and that use. And then across the street, really on 42nd Street, but on a portion
of this block you'll see where some of the rm1 was preserved the rezoning was supported by the
The rezoning was supported by the district plan which identified a rezoning here as being
district plan which identified a rezoning
necessary to preserve the existing single family. However, as the board has seen and will continue
to see during this presentation, the long-standing single family warranting of preservation
is largely on the eastern half of this block heading up towards North 41st Street.
The proposal for 4153 Mantua Avenue is shown on the zoning plans at Exhibit 6 and includes one
new three-story structure to blend with the existing three-story structures on either side.
Like its neighbors, this structure would be made of brick with a front porch and stone along the
base. And again, the goal here was to really try and match the aesthetics to what is on either
side of this property in terms of existing aesthetics. The building will contain four
dwelling units. In the rear, the building narrows to accommodate rear steps leading towards the
lower level, which is predominantly above grade, which you can see on these elevations here.
From the rear, you'll also notice that the narrowed structure design allows for maximum window coverage and light and air into all of the units.
A roof deck will be provided, which will be separated into two separate private roof deck spaces for the two upper level units.
Floor plans are also now shown at Exhibit 7.
I'll zoom out so you can get a better sense overall, and I'll zoom in if you have any specific questions.
Each of these units, each of the four units are large bi-level units with two units spanning the first floor and lower level and two units comprising the second and third floor.
The lower level units are both 709 and 761 square feet with one bedroom, two bathrooms and ample living space.
As with the other units, you'll notice that there are designated interior ventilated trash storage areas within each of these units.
On the third and fourth floor, there are two more units, again, very large units of 799 and 931 square feet, each with two bedrooms and two bathrooms.
So a really nice mix of unit types.
These two units, as I mentioned earlier, would both have their own private roof decks.
In consideration of the rail lines in the rear, my client has already planned for higher quality windows that have superior sound proofing.
We did include a cross-section photograph of the windows that he plans to use in these exhibits, and my client, Serge, can answer any questions that you have about these particular windows.
but they are designed to be of a higher quality to ensure that the sound is adequately buffered
from the rail lines. Now, regarding the refusal, the proposal only received one refusal for the
proposed multifamily use. No dimensional variances are requested, and the structure is proposed to
be shorter than the code would allow, further to this developer's goal of remaining consistent
with the adjacent structures in terms of both height and aesthetics. The applicant submits
to a multifaceted hardship given the history of the property, the remarkably unfortunate timing
of my client's purchase, as well as the character of the western half of this block on which this
property sits. Starting first with the history, and I'll bring up exhibit 11. Historically speaking,
the lot at 4153 Mantua Avenue was used as a multifamily dwelling with three units dating
all the way back to the 1930s. It appears from the history that the former multifamily dwelling
was likely demolished sometime around the early 2000s. And again, you can see this historical
multifamily use captured throughout the history of this property. And I did try and highlight that
just to direct your eye. Furthermore, as I've shown throughout the presentation, this block is
largely split in terms of use. At exhibit 10, zoom back in, you'll see a visual representation of this
split showing the nearly exclusively multifamily use of the existing or newly constructed structures
leading up towards north 42nd street. All of these newly constructed structures are four units
with the corner being seven units plus a commercial space. Even across
with the corner being seven units plus a commercial space.
Even across the street from this property is an existing three-family dwelling,
which backs up to a recently approved 16-family dwelling.
A few structures down to the east is also one outlier four-unit dwelling,
which sits among the remaining single-family, predominantly two-story homes.
And again, you can see the real natural division here.
you can see that alley that I referenced in this overhead aerial view.
The historical use of this lot and the block is consistent with this proposal.
Aside from the historical multifamily use, erecting a new single-family home on this lot
would represent a deviation from the predominantly multifamily dwellings that currently exist and
have been recently constructed on this block and in the immediately surrounding neighborhood.
The proposed four units will represent a natural blend of the predominantly multifamily residential uses on the western half of the block and is further consistent with the historical multifamily use that existed here.
In addition to the historical use and the context of the surrounding structures, the unfortunate timing here also warrants this board granting relief.
As I mentioned earlier, Serge entered the sheriff's sale process by conducting due diligence in the months leading up to the September sale.
At that time, the city map still reflected this lot as being zoned RM1, which would have allowed for a four-unit development by right.
By the time the sheriff's office delivered his deed in January of 2024, which would have been the first time he even had authority to do anything with this property,
The maps were then finally updated, and Serge learned the unfortunate circumstances.
At that point, his investment had been turned upside down, given not only the fact that it was RM1, but especially in light of all of the other evidence that you've heard today that renders a new single-family structure on this block not viable, particularly given the proximity to the rail lines in the rear.
We submit that the proposed number of units is also the least minimum, as this density is consistent with the density of surrounding structures.
Additionally, four units are most appropriate for the interior layout of this structure and is not overbuilt from a dimensional perspective to accommodate this proposed density.
Furthermore, these units are varied in size and type to accommodate a wider range of rental price points and tenant preferences.
In terms of the community, this project was first assigned to a local RCO who was unresponsive to our attempts at contacting them over the course of many months.
The council office tried their hand as well, but was unsuccessful.
Eventually, as you now know, the councilwoman's office offered to arrange and hold the meeting, which did occur on October 7th.
However, despite sending out notices nearly a month in advance, no local residents attended.
We did include our notices and we also did include the certificates of mailing
in our exhibit packet just so you can get a sense of the volume of mailings that were sent out and
you can see the date here. It was sent just under a month prior to the meeting. In an effort to try
connect with some local neighbors. Serge visited neighboring properties over the last month and was
fortunately able to secure five signatures in support of the proposal from neighbors directly
on Mantua Avenue. We do submit the proposal will not increase congestion, harm neighbors properties,
or impair light and air. The structure was designed to align with the existing character of the three
story brick structures on the block, and a more detailed analysis is provided in the memo of law
submitted to the board at Exhibit 12. And as always, I'm very happy to touch on any particular
point in more detail. At this point, I'd like to bring up my client, Serge Masalanikov,
if the administrator could look for him in the audience.
They've been allowed to speak.
hi sir could you could you could you state your name and spell for the stenographer
my name is sergey maslenica s-e-r-g-e-y and the last name is m-a-s-l-e-n-n-i-k-o-e
we're a firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
i do please proceed counsel thank you um serge have you heard all of the testimony and evidence
that I offered in front of the board today.
Yes, I did.
Would you agree that testimony was true and accurate
and would you adopt it as if it were your own?
Yes. Was there anything else that you wanted to add?
Was there anything else that you wanted to add?
I mean, a few things you brought up. It's about the windows I'm planning to use on this building.
I mean...
I've been having success with this tilt and turn design windows, which present in great construction, high quality PVC, multi-chamber window with a steel frame.
These windows, as per manufacturer, provide very high sound installation, up to 45 decibel, which is very quiet.
And also the R value, the installation value of these windows is extremely good, which is going to create a good environment inside the building and low bills for the potential tenants.
and also in terms of the design as you mentioned i plan to use uh mostly brick like not mostly
like 100 break on the facade to match the existing uh existing buildings uh to the right to the left
we have a vacant lot and this way to to to blend in and also i wanted to put the position the
windows and the facade, same style
as a neighboring
building. That's pretty much
it. Thank you. Happy
to answer any questions. Questions
from the board.
Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Amberson?
No, I'm back,
Mr. Chair. Oh, she's back.
But no, I do not have any
questions at this time. Thank you.
these are comments from the virtual audience um i do not see any further hands mr chair
planning commission thank you chairman and good morning david effecta with the city planning
commission chairman and board members the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the
rsa5 residential single family zoning at this location the city changed the zoning maps in
belmont in 2023 and a community requested map change there is no unique physical condition
or circumstances of this property that were prevented from being used in conformance with
the zoning code city planning commission recommends that the board deny the proposed
use variance for four dwelling units thank you mi2024 003 533 4153 manchua avenue i vote yes
my vote is yes oh gaston my vote is yes senator graham my vote is yes
my vote is no ishmael shaheed my vote is yes thank you counsel thank you
Number 16, MI 2024-003-742-5499, Quinton Street.
Vern Anastasio is the attorney.
There's a letter of opposition from Wissahickon Interested Citizens Association.
22 opposed.
It'll be rejoining as a panelist.
Sorry, sir.
good morning morning miss anastogio you have already been sworn um could you identify your
client the relationship to this property yes my client is mr fadid to files he is the owner of
the property question our vice chair has a few questions good morning council do you agree to
the reading of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy i do have you emailed in all the required
documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed in this case five days in advance of this hearing
yes sir thank you counsel please proceed you already shared your screen
okay i have a uh 69 page exhibit packet here
first i wanted to share
everything seems to be blank
i'm going to close this out and try again mr chair my apologies
Thank you.
Just one second, please.
Here we go.
okay so we have signatures uh from about 35 neighbors all from the block and from the
immediate area all within the the immediate impacted uh community the vote uh at the rco
meeting does not reflect any of the the uh preferences of any of the immediate neighbors
so i did want to make sure that that was um shown first
also that the property is uniquely situated it is uh on the corner property it's very large it's two
and almost three times the size of any other residential property on the block
as you can see even across the street the lot is as deep as this other larger corner lot it's
even larger than that and almost the complete second lot of RTA-1. So is there a unique
feature to the property? Most certainly.
The application is for a three-family dwelling in an existing structure.
This is the property management team that will be managing the property professionally.
You submit that also to the RCO.
Here's an exterior shot, the property itself.
Right now, it is zoned for a two-family dwelling.
There's also three accessory off-street parking spots on this property.
So to have the third unit, which would be in the lower level, but completely above grade,
as far as some of the garage space,
it still would not adversely impact the community
with regard to any kind of traffic or congestion
because there are three spots already
approved by L&I.
As you can see, this is the existing house.
We have approved parking already here.
And let's take a look at the layouts of the properties.
This is the existing third floor unit.
As you can see, it's a two-bedroom unit with a dining area, a kitchen, and a living room.
This is the existing second floor unit.
It is identical to the third floor, and this is the proposed first floor rear unit.
As you can see, it is a one-bedroom unit.
so the other portion of the of the rear will have a common area with washer and dryer
and of course the utility space there's also on the side of the property a trash corral
each unit will have its own private trash bin so that they can get to it of course it being a
three-family dwelling there will be commercial trash pickup there will be full sprinkler system
put in as a result of triggering the new use if the board grants this variance
property again is zone rta1 it's already been approved for the
uh two family dwelling uh and they're asking for the three family
it's also the off-street parking space is two open one structured has also been previously approved
Brian, do you have photos of the rear?
Okay, we're going to go through a lot of photos.
So this is the rear of the property, as you can see.
Here's some interior.
everything is 100 above grade
Everything is 100%.
here's some of the existing
was this the garage
that's correct
and that's
this is the app the zoning notice that went out
and we have proof of mailing as well because we have 35 immediate neighbors in support of this
conversion because it's 100 above grade on an unusually large lot with three dedicated
off-street parking spaces and because my client could really use that extra unit to help with his
adjustable interest rate for the mortgage,
we respectfully request the granting of the
variance. With that, I'd like to have Mr. Tawfiles raise his virtual
They have been allowed to speak.
Could you please state your name as spelled for the stenographer?
Fadi Tawfiles
F-A-D-Y
T as in Tom, A-W-F-I-L-E-S
We're a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Yes, I do.
Please proceed, counsel.
Thank you.
Fadi, did you hear my presentation to the board this morning?
True and accurate to the best of your knowledge?
Adopted as your own testimony?
Do you adopt it as your own testimony?
Thank you.
Questions from the board?
this this conversion has already been done
no it's sort of it was i think mr uh not completely uh but mr
can we go back to the pictures what is it that isn't it's not done nothing nothing started yet
But just we haven't approved to extend the garage.
I'm sorry.
Can we go back to the pictures?
Yes, ma'am.
I think a portion of it is a washer-dryer area.
I saw that.
I also saw a kitchen.
Did I not?
I don't think it's in the...
You showed a kitchen with it, Vern.
Yes, you did.
That's for the second floor.
could be the upstairs units is that what you're saying here so this is the basement here where
the garage is this is the garage space that would be converted that's correct
burn do you have anything to show what it'll be like if you convert it
yeah i showed you the plans you want to go over that again let's see the plan sure
can we can we can we keep going with the pictures first please sure um i want to go through the
pictures more okay Mr. Chair oh yeah go ahead okay yeah I'm sorry Mr. Chair no no no so what
is this what is this living this is upstairs here this is upstairs yes okay so you didn't say that
Fadi is that correct is that your testimony yes this is starting the second floor uh picture
right here yep so this is the second floor unit yes you're saying okay and then what is
what is this next one and then where is this
kitchen that I saw
all these after
is the second and third floor
pictures
keep going
yes ma'am
refrigerator looks like somebody
has already got their stuff
second floor
this is the dining area
in the second floor. You're saying it's the second floor?
Yep. Okay.
And then this is what? The living space?
Living room in the second floor.
Bathroom.
And then kitchen.
Kitchen in the third floor.
Okay. And then these next
pictures are the third floor?
Yes. Is that what you're saying? Yes.
All right. Thank you.
You're welcome.
Why don't you show what it's going to look like again?
Show us the drawings, please.
I'll go back to the plans.
This is the site plan.
Again, this is the existing third floor,
existing second floor,
and then the converted rear.
It's a one-bedroom unit.
It's a one-bedroom unit.
Thank you.
And what's happening on the first floor?
What's happening on the first floor?
You said second floor, third floor, and then?
So this is the rear.
You're calling rear is the first floor?
Yeah, it's the first floor.
Yeah, because it's a walkout garage.
So, but it's completely 100% above grade.
This is going to be more of an official laundry room area, washer, dryer.
Here's the utility area.
And then the remaining portion is going to be the one-bedroom apartment with really ample living room, kitchen and dining area, and then a one-bedroom apartment, a one-bedroom with a full bath, five by seven.
Again, trash corral, three separate containers, one for each floor.
And this comes with three accessory parking spots.
So parking is not an issue here at all.
Is that a row with duplexes?
There are mostly duplexes.
There have been some other conversions.
I'm not quite sure that they've gone through this process.
But, yeah, mostly multifamily.
Which is why, you know, if you look at the petition, there were more than a half a dozen just right on that block that they didn't think it was much of an issue.
Other questions from the board?
yes was there any um in terms of the rco there was a a large number of folks that opposed um
is there any thing that came up um maybe they asked for some prevent frisals or what was what
was the rcos you know they were very nice none of them were from the immediate neighborhood
uh they really didn't ask many questions i explained to them that this would be fully
sprinklered that, you know, the size of the property was, you know, bigger than the adjacent
ones. But there were really not that many concerns other than make sure, are you going to have a
property management company? We were able to produce that contract that we submitted to you
all today. And obviously traffic parking didn't seem to be an issue with them either. And that's
why, because very few people from the immediate area showed up, we then went door to door
on the block and right in the immediate spot, showed them what we'd like to do, and was
able to get, although 22 people opposed at the RCO meeting, we had over 35 signatures
just on that immediate area who support it.
So access to this rear is going to be through the driveway.
way that's that's correct so there's no additional walkway that's planned out to the street
or out to the pavement fadi can you explain that a little bit more please i'm sorry can you repeat
the question well you know i don't don't the site plan you don't show like a walkway that's you know
and it's not a great plan so you don't show a walkway that's out to the street it's just that
i'm looking on google i see it's just a two-car garage yeah so the walkway is
is going to be on the driveway
and there is a walkway on the side
of the building
that's been made
recently.
This red thing,
the walkway on the side.
the door of the apartment will be
right on the front of the garage.
Right here?
Is that right?
this is
the extra space
it's 20 by 20
it will take actually two cars
not one
and the door will be
right in the corner
yeah right above that's it
and that I think that's shown on the plan
Mr. Johns if I can go
would you allow me to go back to that
yeah if you could
right here
isn't that the entrance though
just for the one bedroom apartment
that was the question
where would the entrance be
at Mr. John's question
that was the corner
for all of them
no no just that
No, no, just that, there's that apartment. Yeah, because the existing entrance already takes them up.
apartment yeah because the existing
entrance already takes them
Do the garage doors, do the garage doors remain in the back?
Right now, yes.
No, in the plan, Mr. Fadi.
Oh, in the plan? No.
No, you'll be sealing them up, of course.
questions or comments from our attorney
i mean just briefly i'm just a little bit confused based on the language of the refusal
um where it talks about three parking spaces one structured two surface but it appears that
the two structured parking spaces that are here both are being eliminated not just one of them
in this proposal is that correct so then you'd only have two two surface parking spaces left
no this is an old picture with the new picture the driveway it's uh the the width is 45 feet
by 20 feet so you're proposing three parking spaces on the garage i mean on the driveway
yes okay because that's not what the refusal says in the way that it's written it doesn't
include changes to parking so this is only it's written as a change it says no change to three
accessory off-street parking spaces two open one structured as previously approved so yeah the two
open one the two open one structured i think that was the examiner's language
Right. No, that's why I'm confused. But structure normally means like garage parking.
So it sounds like there's no garage parking proposed and there's three surface spaces proposed.
And so if there's if there's some reconfiguration of the parking being done, that's that's being proposed as part of this application.
It's not on the application, only the change of uses.
So, so, and if, yeah, so I'm just, that's why I'm a little bit confused, because what I'm seeing does not match what the refusal says, and so there may need to be a separate, you know, if this was approved, there need to be a separate application, I think, for the new parking spaces.
Parking spaces are done, and I have a permit with it.
It's been done already.
Okay, so that, so yeah, so that's, so that's not part of, so you already did, you already did the parking spaces?
yes so you have three surface parking spaces now actually it will take four
four four parking spaces yeah okay but yes yes we have the permit or in hand already yes
okay that was just i think an examiner's mistake so i probably shouldn't stipulate to that accuracy
right okay yeah so it doesn't appear to reflect the card permit so okay thank you for the
clarification thank you thank you questions from the virtual audience
um yes mr chair i have a hand up from a leroy wichert i have allowed them to speak
hi could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer mr chair this mr wichert is
another client of mine has nothing to do with this case he's looking for a vote and my office
has already advised him that they would speak to attorney emerson for a vote thank you
anyone else in the virtual audience yes please excuse me for the interruption uh we have uh
daniel flesher again i've allowed him to speak mr fletcher could you state your name please for
the court sonographer yep daniel flesher d-a-n-i-e-l-f-l-e-s-h-e-r i swear you once
today before? Yes, you did. Okay. Please proceed, sir. Yep. So I'm speaking on behalf of Wicca,
the RCL who saw this, and I just wanted to add that we did have the vote and 22 were opposed,
and six of those opposed were near neighbors, just for that clarification. And then I'm glad
the parking thing got brought up just because that was another one of the issues, just that the
the uh covered parking would be eliminated in this so i'm glad that i got addressed
wanted to bring that up so thank you thank you mr flusher um planning commission i just want to uh
amend my what i said that there was none there are six uh obviously we have 35 thank you thank you
planning commission thank you chairman and good morning david effecto with the city oh i'm sorry
good afternoon david effecto with the city planning commission the comprehensive plan
recommends no change to the RTA1 residential two-family zoning at this location.
residential two-family zoning at this location. The city changed the zoning maps in this
The city changed the zoning map.
neighborhood in 2016 from residential single-family to residential two-family attached in this block
face in accordance with the recommendations in the comprehensive plan. There is no unique
physical condition or circumstance of this property that would prevent it from being used
in conformance with the zoning code. The property has documented history of two dwelling units,
but not three this is a primarily one family and two family block face the city planning commission
recommends the board deny the proposed use variants for a third dwelling unit um mr anastasio i'm going
to hold this vote till next wednesday where i can sit and talk to the board we will vote on this on
9 30 next wednesday thank you very much mr chair thank you we have one more we got to go back to
Merrill Spurlock, please.
MI 2024-003-408-5740
Wendale Avenue.
Ms. Spurlock, please raise your
virtual hand away to be sworn in.
so they'll be over joining that's panamish for all right thank you
spurlock
Wait, Chair, I have Leroy Wichert's hand up.
There's a mutant way to be swung in, Leroy Wichert.
Chair?
Are you involved in this case?
Oh, no, I was I was raising my hand with regards to a case that I was supposed to be heard.
Oh, no, well, no, we're we're we're actually working on a case right now, sir.
Carol Spurlock.
They'll be joining us at Panama shortly.
hello can you hear me i i can miss spurlock why don't you turn on your video so we can see you
yeah okay that's it miss burlock how are we doing do we uh get to our documents
yes and i apologize mr no you don't you do not have to apologize you don't have to apologize
So you've already been sworn.
Why don't you start?
Show us your documents.
All right.
Can you see that?
We did not, Ms. Spurlock.
We don't see anything.
All right.
Take your time.
I have them.
All right.
Slide projection.
Oh, my goodness.
Now, I have them up.
Can you see them?
We cannot.
Do you see a green button that says share your screen on your computer?
Do we have our IT person online?
I am so sorry.
So in the Zoom window in the bottom, like around the middle,
there should be a green button that says share.
Around the bottom.
In the Zoom window.
Okay, share.
And it'll ask you what you want to share
and then you select your document to share it.
All right.
There you go.
I think it's coming up.
Can you see that now?
We do.
so why can you see it yes i can see so why don't you start your pre tell us what you
want to do and start your presentation okay
All right. I'm sitting, I am, you know, requesting just to change from a single family dwelling to a two family dwelling. And my first, this was my refusal, the letter of refusal.
all right i'm sitting i am you know requesting just to change
I can hardly see it. It's not large.
Can you make your screen just a little larger? Can you do that?
Yeah, that's what I'm, let's see.
Hey, Bill, could you give her an idea where to make that a little bigger?
If you click on slideshow, will that start the slideshow?
Is that, can you see that?
Yep, I see it. Thank you.
All right, so that's the letter of refusal.
We have that.
And then?
Your application.
Okay. That's the application for appeal.
And this is the notice from the application.
Okay. And these are the receipts from the letters that I sent out to all the people.
And the zoning notice.
yes and this is the front this is the corner lot okay the 54 this is the unit
the entrance the four house view the entrance into the entrance um unit b this is the living
room and going into the dining room and you can see the stairs going up to the second level
this is the
the sunroom off the living room
this is the stairway going up to the upper level
the hallway to the bedrooms
the bath and the laundry room
this is the primary bedroom
this is the
bathroom, the primary bathroom with a shower and no tub
This is the bathroom.
This is the second bedroom, and each room has a Mitsubishi split mini AC unit.
This is the second bathroom beside the second bedroom.
This is the third bedroom.
And this is the laundry room with a washer and dryer.
Second floor.
This is on the second floor.
Yes, sir.
This is the kitchen.
Now, this is on the main levels.
A kitchen with an island, stove top, and eating space.
And that's the kitchen with a more entrance, eating space with a wall, oven unit,
viewing into the dining room.
This is 5740 unit A lower level entry.
the garage, and second entry into the unit with a deck on the top.
Entry hallway, this is the unit, and this area is all electric.
There's no gas.
This is the first bedroom, the second bedroom,
the living room by the garage entryway.
And this is the kitchen showing a washer and a dryer.
And that doorway is the entry into the bathroom.
The full kitchen, and that's the bathroom.
And these were the posters that were put out on the side and in the front.
that's the entry into the um lower level
there's the corner lot and that's it
it's already a duplex now yes it is it's already it's already made my uh my brother was a very
handyman and when he purchased the house he left the house to me but when he purchased it
he he made that downstairs for his wife's niece who used to live down there for a while so it
wasn't being you know rented but anyway you're looking to legalize it yes questions from the board
you're looking to legalize it yes questions from the board
questions or comments from the uh from our attorney hillary emberson
not at this time mr chair questions or comments from the virtual audience
um i do not see any hands at this time mr chair planning commission
Mr. Chairman, good afternoon. David Vecta with the City Planning Commission.
Chairman and board members, the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the RSA-5,
Residential Single-Family Zoning, at this location.
Zoning dates to 1967.
There is no unique physical condition or circumstance of this property that would prevent it from being used in conformance with the zoning code.
There is evidence of other two-family homes, but this block face is primarily single-family.
The property appears to have been converted into a duplex without the benefit of permits.
The City Planning Commission recommends the board deny the proposed use variance for two dwelling units.
This is Spurlock.
What I want to do with this is try to get a hold of the RCO for them to send a letter.
i'm going to hold it for two weeks and if you can have the letter sent
i'm sorry this is hillary i just want to let you know that we did we did um receive the letter
since um since the summary i said last night and it was a letter of support from winfield community
neighborhood association the vote was 11 and support one opposed thank you very much so
we'll vote today. So thank you. MI 2024-003-408-5740, Wendell Avenue. I vote yes.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes. I wish all basement apartments had these kind of windows.
Darrell Gaston, my vote is yes.
Tanetta Graham, my vote is yes.
My own, my vote is yes.
Ishmael Shahid, my vote is yes.
thank you you you have your votes and and thanks for waiting for us and we're glad you got through
i appreciate it all right thank you very soon delay no no you don't have to apologize thank
I appreciate it
no you don't have to apologize
thank you very much
you very much all right is there anyone in the virtual audience whose case has not been called
is there anyone in the virtual audience
um mr chair um d dukes has their hand raised again do i love him to speak or
uh does he have a case it's a d dukes yeah sure
I love it. I love it. A lot of Miss people.
Dukes, please unmute. Yes. Thank you, Mr.
Mr. Chair. I just wanted, she brought it up. Hillary did bring it up.
We definitely sent a letter of support. Oh, good. Oh, good. Yes.
This owner is wonderful.
She has been meticulous on taking care of the property, the nearby support her.
Yes, we are. All right. Mr. Miss Dukes. Thank you very much.
and thank you for waiting around. We appreciate it.
Thank you. All right.
Anyone else have a case that's not been called?
Yes, Chair, it's 77 attendees.
And you can start as you wish.
Michael on?
All right, we'll start.
Good afternoon, everyone.
My name is Bill Bergman, and I will be chairing in this afternoon's meeting.
With me is our Vice Chair, Ismail Shahid.
okay he's here
our board member tenetta graham good afternoon chair president our board member michael johns
I believe he's, here he is, Michael.
And our board member, Ty Wynn.
Also present is our attorney, Hillary Emerson.
Here's our virtual format.
Proceedings are being recorded.
With your participation, you agree to be recorded.
The video will be available by contacting
ZBA Executive Director at phila.gov.
For our court stenographer,
we ask attorneys and witnesses to identify themselves before testifying. If you're
participating by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand and star 6 to unmute.
To win an appearance statement, call 267-270-5548.
Leave your email address and the address of the property in question.
The question answer box on the screen is
not for testimony. All comments or testimony should be directed
to ZBA Executive Director
at phillip.gov. Here's our schedule for this afternoon. Number six, MI 2024-002-617-3230,
Belgrade, that case is continued, attorney moving party. Number eight, MI 2024-003-271,
1201 to 03 Adams Avenue. That case is continued. Number 11, MI 2024, 005-199-7000 Halston Avenue.
That case is continued. Number 13, MI 2024, 005-237-2281-Oregon Avenue. That case is continued.
Number 14, MI 2024, 005-323-4317-19-Comley Street. That case is continued. Are there any
other requests for continuances you hear me now chair good afternoon mr chairman very good yes
jason any any um yes i'll be your um co-host again for the afternoon we have a hand up from a ron
parik i've allowed them to speak ron please unmute and wait to be sworn in yes all right could you
state your name and spell it please for the court stenographer. My name is Ranthik Parikh,
R-A-N-T-I-K, last name Parikh, P-A-R-I-K-H. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,
the whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. What case are you interested in,
there? 52-31
Greenway,
my attorney, Mr.
Mike, Maternal
is on the other line.
Are you
requesting a continuance, sir?
No, no. I just
wanted to make sure I'm in the right meeting
because last time we were in a wrong meeting
and we missed the
announcement.
Mr. Chair, we
do have that case on the 2 o'clock list
and it is ready to proceed okay it will be called shortly thank you thank you sir thank you all right
are there any other requests for continuance i have a handout from frank turner i have allowed
them to speak hey sir could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer
yes my name is frank turner i'm here for um b-span trust hold on a moment sir could you
just for the record, spell your name for the court stenography.
Absolutely. Sorry. It's Frank Turner, F-R-A-N-K, T-U-R-N-E-R.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I do. Also, I'm the attorney for East Band Trust.
I do. Also, I'm the attorney for East Band Trust.
What's the address of that, sir?
What's the address of the...
That's the Greenway case, Mr. Chair.
Yes. Mr. Turner, we just advised your client that that case would be proceeding.
Just please wait to be called.
Great. Thank you.
Are there any other requests for continuances?
Yes. I have a hand up from Mr. Ron Patterson.
I will allow him to speak.
i'm mr patterson sure could you just state your name for the record and spell for this
stenographer of course uh ronald patterson r-o-n-a-l-d-p-a-t-t-e-r-s-o-n mr chairman
hold on one minute do you swear a friend to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the
truth uh yes i do what case is it sir uh the 2281 oregon avenue that was continued i would just like
to clarify we also needed a request or leave to amend the plan back to uh the department okay
great thank you i'll i'm on the list later so i'll see you soon thank you
uh any other requests for continuance yes i have a hand up from anna rendos i've allowed them to
speak and could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer sure thing anna rendos
A-N-N-A
You swear a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth. Yes, I do.
What case?
What's the address?
2052 Blair Street.
Mr. Chair,
that case is on our add-on list.
Ms. Rindos, that case will be voted
shortly. Okay,
great. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Any other
requests for it?
There are no further answers, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. And number 10, MI 2024, 004-851-1409-13 Fitzwater Street. Gregory Schumann and Vernessa Lewis. This is the first listing, and we have no exhibits.
Mr. Schumann, could you state your name and spell for the court stodographer?
Sure. It's Gregory Schumann, G-R-E-G-O-R-Y-S-C-H-U-M-A-N-N.
You swear, Fern, to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, sir?
Yes, I do.
We do not have your exhibits yet.
I did mail everything.
I'm not sure why I wouldn't have gone through, but I can also share my screen if that's possible.
But we're not making any changes to the facility.
Well, we would have to have our documents five days in advance.
We don't have your documents yet.
Why don't you do this?
We're going to continue the case.
Call the office.
We'll make sure that your documents are ready the next time.
OK. Excuse me, Mr. Chair. Mr. Schumann, are you the owner or tenant of the property?
What's your relationship to the property? I'm the tenant.
I am the one who's going to be taking over the lease here. Oh, OK. All right.
Thank you for the clarification. What documents exactly are missing?
Please look in the chat for information about how to contact the ZBA and they can assist you.
Okay. Thank you, sir. And number one, MI-2024-000-659-7000-Caster Avenue. That case is but withdrawn.
We're going to go to our add-ons.
Number 1, MI 2024, 004286, 2052 Blair Street.
I vote yes per amended refusal dated 9-20-24.
Yes, with amended refusal.
Senator Graham, my vote is yes, par amended refusal.
But Iowyn, my vote is yes, par amended refusal.
Ms. Mille Shaheed, my vote is yes, par amended refusal.
Number two, MI 2024-001-332-5301, West Montgomery.
0-0-1-3-3-2-5-3-0-1, West Montgomery Avenue, number E.
I vote yes for amended refusal dated 9-23-24.
My vote is, Michael Johns, my vote is yes with amended refusal.
Can I agree on my vote is yes with amended refusal?
my vote is yes with amended refusal
number three mi2024 005594 9901 frankfurt avenue
i vote
i vote yes and members will have to certify watching of the video
In this video, we're going to look at how you can compress the media file so it takes
up less space without...
Hello.
Yes, Michael Johns, my vote is yes, and I watched the video.
Hi Owen, my vote is yes, and I watched the video.
Tana Graham, my vote is yes, and I did watch the video.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes, and I did watch the video.
Number four, MI2023-002787, 90 Red Lion Road.
my vote is no
michael johnson my vote is no and this was a video also
tana graham my vote is no and i did watch the video
i won my vote is no and i did watch the video
ishmael shaheed my vote is yes
Department of Refuse.
Number five, MI 2024-004-763-3412 North 19th Street, the vote in this matter, has been rescheduled to Wednesday, October 30th, 2024, at 2 p.m.
Number six, MI 2024, 004-887-3222-Frankford Avenue.
I vote no.
Michael Johns, my vote is no.
Snyder Graham, my vote is no.
Zion, my vote is no.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is no.
We're going to go to our regular list.
First case will be number two, MI 2024,
4-0-0-0-8-9-9-5-2-31
Dreamway. Frank Turner is the attorney.
There's a letter of support from the 51st Ward Democrat
They should be rejoining as a panel of short, Mr. Chair.
Thank you.
good afternoon mr turner i'm here um thank you bear with me one second
so um like mr turner could you turn could you could you please uh put your video on
Yes, I am. Can't hold it one second. Sure.
Difficulty, my apologies.
thank you mr turner um when i i think i called your name earlier and i think i swore you in
earlier uh yes correct all right could you identify your client the relationship to this
property uh yes my client is east band trust it's a family trust that's um that's the owner
of the property and our vice chair has just a few questions for you sir certainly
good afternoon sir have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed
to proceed with this case yes i have thank you please proceed and share your screen
yes i have thank you please proceed and share your screen certainly screen sharing
Certainly.
sorry looking for the screen sharing sure green green button at the bottom got it thank you
yep you're coming up so um so here we have the let's make this a little bit larger for everyone
so this property um is located on greenway avenue um in the uh 50 200 block it's a
It's a relatively busy commuter corridor close to Grace Ferry Bridge.
And what we have here is a property that was purchased after it had already been built out as a duplex.
And so we're just trying to legalize that duplex at this point.
Of course, the hardship being that the property is already built out, and in order to comply with the zoning code, they would have to remove an entire second-floor unit with two bedrooms.
and it was a it was the property the zoning application was refused because it's a
RSA one and and there are no other two-family properties on this block however
legalizing this in this case second floor would at most add a small family to the block it wouldn't
increase congestion or change the character of the neighborhood in any other way
and it would then i'm sure continue to be used as it had been used
prior to my client's purchase of the of the property
Mr. Turner, could you move the plans over a little bit?
Here's the entire plans. Here's the...
This is the first floor.
Here is the one-bedroom unit.
The bedroom in the back.
Utilities and storage.
and the second second floor is a two bedroom with an additional bedroom in
the front and I believe that my my client is here and can testify that the
property is only one of the units is currently being used because um because
they're they only are able to obtain a rental license for one unit and so
do you have photos of it yes we do interior photos
this is the uh it's the entrance of the sands this is the back patio area
this is the first floor unit the stairs already built out
This is the basement, which I believe is only accessible by the first floor.
so as it stands it's um it's housing that's just not able to be used in that area
there's the we also have recent postings i believe this is
um how long has this been a duplex it has been a duplex since before my client purchased it um
which i believe was in 2009 or 13.
one second
One second.
The Turner?
Yes, I'm sorry. I'm just pulling up the deed for the date of the purchase, which I believe
is 2009. But I'm just verifying that right now.
2014. So it's been a duplex since before it was purchased by my client in 2014.
you want to bring your client on certainly
mr. preak are you there can you raise your hand
there he is or i think could you just state your name please my name is r-a-n-t-i-k
p-a-r-i-k-h i believe i swore you in earlier today yes sir please proceed council
mr parikh um when did you purchase this property or i'm sorry what is your capacity um
in relation to east band trust i'm the trustee i see and um and as a trustee of east band trust
you were responsible for purchasing this property?
And when did you do that?
9th of September, 2014.
Okay. And what was the...
How was the property structured and organized when you purchased it?
It was two doors, one going to the second floor, one going to the first floor from the entrance.
And it was, were there, it was two separate units with separate meters for each unit?
Correct.
And at the time, was it occupied?
When we purchased it, no.
There are two gas meters and three electric meters, one for each floor and one for common
And so have you used it as a rental property since that time?
have you used both units or only one of them only one which unit are using the
first or the second floor first floor I see that's a one bedroom correct right
and am I correct in saying that there's a two bedroom on this on the second floor
right and and so what would be the difficulty in conforming with the zoning code we'll have
to do many structural changes if you want to convert it back to one family including electric
plumbing all work too because it's all separate right now i understand thank you um so i don't
have any other further questions mr churnall why don't why don't you have him adopt your testimony
certainly um and so all the testimony that i've given today um mr parikh um do you accept that
adopt that as your own yes i do questions from the board uh yeah can you go back to the floor
planes for a second and uh what's what's the basement being used for because it looks like
it's being used for living space no it's like a little party or a kids play area
so it has a kitchen
it's not really kitchen it's just the counters
it's no stove no refrigerator no uh okay so just it's just a sink it's like a web bar
what's what's in the what's in the what's in the back can you slide down the plan a little bit
the back has the elect meters okay so the proposal for this is is the request to have this as a
duplex and the duplex will be a bi-level duplex for the first floor it'll be a bi-level unit
okay questions from the board
yes how many other multi-family
Yes, how many other multifamilies are on this block?
How can I help you?
There are no other multifamilies zoned for this block.
I'm sorry.
I'm okay.
And then both units have access to this basement space?
I believe only the first floor.
No, only the first floor.
Only the first floor.
and then for the second floor is that a roof there's a there's a door in the bedroom leading
out to the rear right right we had we had a section 8 inspection pre-approved and they made
us put the railing there so it's been blocked out but but it's okay it's just not shown in the plan
No, because it's an old picture.
We had a Section 8 pre-approval done in anticipation of this hearing, and they gave us a list of
the work to abide by the Section 8 rules, and one of them was to put a railing in the
back for safety, and we did that.
So I have another question.
So the property was bought in 2014, and it's just now that you're requesting to have this legalized.
Why 10 years later?
Because I did not know how to do it, what to do it, to be honest with you.
So it's been vacant since 2014?
I used it partly myself sometime when I used to go and slip over on the second floor.
because i'm from jersey and i do have to go and slip over many times
other questions from the board
questions or comments from our attorney hillary emerson
not at this time mr chair question or comments from the virtual audience
i do not see any yes mr chair any commission this is uh ron bednar the first name ron r-o-n
last name bednar b-e-d-n-a-o you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the
truth i do please proceed ron uh the property is indicated for residential use on the city plan
given the physical conditions of the site we recommend the request of variance be granted
mi 2024 000 899 5231 greenway avenue i vote yes michael john my vote is yes
Tanada Graham, my vote is yes.
Dylan, my vote is yes.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes.
Thank you, sir. You have your votes.
Thank you. Thank you, Bart.
Right.
Number three, MI 2024-002-062-6045 Shishler Street.
Alan Nockmson is the attorney.
There's a letter of opposition from Take Back Your Neighborhood.
the applicant did provide
a petition of support
signed by 17 neighbors
and four form letters.
Student Occamson.
He'll be joining soon as a panelist.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the board. Alan Nockamson of Nockamson, PC.
Alan, just for the record, spell your name.
Nockamson, N is Nancy, O-C-H-U-M-S-O-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth is nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client, a relationship to the property?
yeah my client is rosalind uh rodriguez the owner and the occupant of the subject premises
our vice chair has a few questions good afternoon counsel do you agree to
ways of reading of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy i do have you emailed in all
the required documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed with this case five days in advance
this hearing yes we have thank you council please proceed and share your screen
all right so i thought this is a straightforward matter uh 60 45 schistler street um my client
lives here. She's not a developer. This has been a family-owned property forever.
You know, she basically bought the property this way. And you'll see in the presentation that all she wants to do is convert the lower level space, which is already set up, like I said, in-law suite into a separate apartment.
You know, she basically bought the property this way. And you'll see in the
She lives there above. She's just trying to help pay her mortgage by doing this. And it's not out of character in the neighborhood to have multifamily.
And every single person, almost every single person on the block is in support of this endeavor.
So and the people who showed up from the neighborhood were in support as well.
So and we're a little bit confused as to why the community group wrote a letter of opposition.
So we'll review the notice of refusal. This is an RSA 5 property.
It's rather large in nature. It's 1,446 square feet.
We did get correspondence from Take Back Your Neighborhood and we'll review that. Again, you'll see the petition and we do a map, you know, to kind of illustrate that everyone who would be impacted, including the person behind us, you know, it's in support of this project or not even a project.
It's just my client who's an individual, a single mother who's just looking to find a way to be able to afford her mortgage by making this into a two-family dwelling.
responsibly. We'll review maps of the area, photographs of the properties
around the area. We took pictures of both the
upstairs where she lives as well as the lower level, which
is not finished but is an in-law suite for all intents and purposes.
Ultimately, if this board approves this, we would cut off the staircase
from the upper portion of the house to a lower portion of the house, but there's a separate
entrance for the other unit and there's
actually two parking spots as well one would be for each unit as well um then we have our plans
and drawings we created something simple from what our client you know explained to us as the
you know floor plans and um you know unconventionally the community meeting and the pre-community
meeting were at her house so you know alex goldberg from my team also attended those meetings
And, you know, those floor plans were based on his visualization as well.
Or RCO meeting notice.
Again, there are a few neighbors who showed up, you know, to this community meeting that was in my client's house.
And our understanding is that those people were in support of this endeavor.
So I still don't understand why then the community group sent a letter of opposition.
Our application for appeal that we followed with the ZBA, D-Tip property showing that my client owns the property and a certificate of tax clearance.
Rosalind is online, so I have a few questions for her to adopt my testimony as her own.
And, you know, she can take any questions you may have as well.
Notice of refusal, again, RSA 5 property, rather large lot size in nature is 1,449 square feet.
We're not changing anything or propose to change anything other than the fact that we would, you know, basically put a wall where the staircase is and going leading down to the basement and maybe making some cosmetic upgrades.
But it's already an in-law suite down there.
So this is the correspondence.
So we had a pre-community meeting also at the property.
And at the pre-community meeting, Alex Goldberg from my team was there.
my client was there with her boyfriend and then there were four community
leaders there or organizers there
in this letter they don't reference the fact
you know about that there was a community meeting a few months later
and that you know the people who showed up at the community meeting who were
nearby neighbors stated their support of this project so
again I don't know if there was a misunderstanding or
maybe they didn't remember that the people showed up to the community meeting and were supportive
of it, but that's what happened. And then there was a petition. And if you look at it, this is
our property. These are all the other properties on our block on our side. These are all the
properties across the street. And this is the property that's directly behind us. All of these
people signed letters to support. So it's almost every single house on our side of the block. I
I mean, a couple down here, no, but one here, everyone's said, oh, yes, of course.
You know, we know the Rodriguez family.
They've owned this property as a family for some time.
We know Rosalind.
You know, she lives there with her child.
We have no objection to this.
There's already off-street parking in the rear.
We don't see any negative impact here.
Here's our petition in support, along with some form letters in support.
And then this is the zoning map. Again, yes, we're an RSA 5 property, but there are other properties nearby which are also RSA 5 that are multifamily in nature.
And then this is the zoning map. Again, yes, we're in the RSA 5 property.
And again, we're not changing, we're not creating any new openings to our property. Like, there's no real, like, underground, like, living. It's, you know, everything's above grade because of how the property is sloped.
but you know this is our property this is the front of our property on schistler street
this is the rear and you can see there's two parking spots garbage is stored in the rear as
well but this is the back door well or the front door if you would think um to the property um to
the second unit but again it's above grade this is the orange notice posters for both you know
on schistler and on the rear this is schistler uh street to the right of the property to left
of the property. And again, it's a common drive aisle
behind us, so it's not a public street. But each
occupant or unit would have its own parking
space. Interior photos. This is just where Rosalind
lives, upstairs. This is
the lower level. This is, again, my client purchased it
this way. You can see there's a kitchen here. These
are the steps from the, you know, the house upstairs to the stairs. This is the only thing
that's going to be changed if the board feels so inclined to grant the variance. So obviously we're
going to close this up. We're going to clean this up too. Like again, my client has been using this
as an in-law suite for some time. Another picture of the kitchen area and the dining room area.
This is, I believe, upstairs and maybe that was upstairs too, but this is upstairs just showing
pictures of the property. But, you know, we had the community meetings at the assistance of the
community organizers at the property, and they did a thorough walkthrough of the property.
And these are simple floor plans, right? So you saw that door in the rear,
that leads to that staircase you saw, but we would just, everything's above grade, you make a right
or make a left.
And then there's a kitchen, dining room, living room,
one bedroom, one bath.
They would get one parking space.
Instead of the occupant on the lower level,
which hopefully is the second unit,
we go to the front door.
This is where my client lives,
living room, kitchen, dining area.
There's three bedrooms and a bath up front
on the second floor.
The RCO meeting notice was July 30th. Everyone was directed to come to the rear of the property.
We mailed that notice that day and we gave proof of mailing of that notice via email.
And we notified the community groups that we mailed it out to 155 addresses.
These are a list of the addresses, the proof of mailing to those addresses.
Applications for appeal that we filed on Rosalind's behalf.
Loaned a notice of refusal in the project information form.
The deed showing that she purchased this property in 2016 from a family member.
She's lived there some time.
And our certificate of tax clearance.
I'm going to stop sharing my screen.
I would ask that Rosalind.
Let me ask you a question.
Is there a kitchen already in that?
In the basement? In the lower level? Yes.
Could we see the kitchen? I don't remember seeing it.
I don't know if it's a full kitchen. I know I would ask Rosalyn that, but it looks like there's some type of kitchenette in here.
is it listed on the plan i know you clicked yeah it's a reflective yeah again we created
this plan based on or what we saw but it's uh it's right here
you bring your client on
all right so can you virtually raise your hand they've been allowed to speak
could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
yes rosalind rodriguez r-o-s-a-l-i-n-d rodriguez r-o-d-r-i-g-u-e-z
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
Yes. Please proceed, Councilman. Rosalind, you heard everything I had to state today about your zoning matter.
yes please proceed council uh roslyn you heard everything i had
Yes. And is it true and correct? Yes. And do you adopt this in your own testimony? Yes.
And then specifically regarding the community meeting that took place, there were several neighbors of yours that attended that meeting.
Yes, correct. And they expressed their support for this application?
Yes, they did.
And you've reached out to those other neighbors that were on that petition and letters to support, which is illustrated by that map.
And all those neighbors were in support of this application, right?
Yes, they were.
And you didn't create any of that work downstairs, like the kitchen or anything else.
That was as is when you purchased a property from a family member, right?
Correct.
And there's two parking spots in the rear as well, right?
Yes, there is.
And the intention is you have one, would have one parking spot and the person who would live there in the one bedroom would have the other parking spot.
Correct.
Okay. Thank you.
Questions from the board.
I have a question.
So the first floor, I guess it would be owner occupied.
How would they have access to the meters and water tanks and stuff like that?
If they're all in the basement.
If you close off that basement, how would the first floor, would they have access to utilities?
That's a good question.
Again, Rosalyn, would it be so that you would have access to it for, you know, maintenance and things like that?
I'm assuming they're all located in the lower level, right, Rosalyn?
Correct.
It's located in the basement, and I would still have access to it since it's separated from the family suite, like the in-law suite.
I mean, okay, how many ways do you get down to the in-law suite?
Is it a separate door?
Like, is it beyond those stairs?
It was a picture where you had some stairs, and then it was a hallway located beyond the stairs.
Is that where the utilities are?
Correct.
So from my kitchen, there's a way to go to the basement and also from the rear of the house, there's an entrance and then that's where the utilities are at.
So you would go through the separate front door of the lower level unit if it was its own unit and you were closed off in the through the staircase.
Correct.
And there is a sidewalk way along the side of your property.
So you would park your car, like typically how you would park is you park your car and then you go to the side walkway and go to the front of your house.
Is that a share? Can you go back to the, I guess, photos?
The floor plans are disingenuous.
Do you want me to do floor plans or photos?
No, the floor plans are disingenuous. They don't really kind of show the scale of what the house is. So, you know, they're just disingenuous. Of course, the bedrooms and everything that's in the basement, they don't comply with code. They don't have egress wells.
I'm always concerned when somebody requests to have a lower level unit that is really accessed really for the most part from a driveway.
And I don't know that there that's you do have that walkway. That's my question. Is that a shared walkway?
No, it is not.
I'm sorry, what is it?
Is it is it shared is a shared walkway between you and the neighbor or is that your private setback from your well from your neighbor.
So the I can't speak to that is that walkway owned by the by the by the property owner.
So we have not done a survey of the property. The only thing I can say is there's a fence along the perimeter of the of this wall right here.
that so it's I would again I can't speak to like whether it's it's a shared walkway or it's a
walkway but this is a walkway that my client uses to get to the front of her property okay and
currently that garage is that where the utility I'm assuming that's where utilities are or is
that just the garage that's probably electric meters probably right behind that well here's
that that's already been converted to a bedroom or something yeah that that has oh that is already
living space.
I just have a fundamental
issue with someone's
front door being a
driveway.
that's it.
that's you know right behind that garage behind that garage where the kitchen is too right
Right behind that garage.
or the whatever is there is is that a kitchen yes correct yeah so i would say this i'm sorry
is it like a gas range i mean what what's there
currently there's nothing in there
yeah that's what i'm saying yeah cabinetry there but do you have gas
can you go back to the can you go back to the pictures of the basement
that's rosalie is this the bedroom in the basement yes it is right so that wasn't that
window doesn't comply right and so that is the walkway you'll have to do a three-foot egress
out of that window and you don't have a room in that walkway so you'd be forcing folks to walk
down the driveway to get to their front of their unit if they're not driving but go ahead
let's see some more of the photos of the basement and we'll remember john as you know this is only
the first step of the process we would have to get yeah i know but you but one of your arguments was
that they have a side walkway that they can use and i asked that was that shared and if it's not
shared that's fine but even if it's not shared and you have to have a three foot um egress well
out of this window that's in the basement you can't walk down that walkway i can tell you now
that walkway probably is only three feet maybe four feet so i don't know how you're going to do
that unless you do some kind of grade or something and then that becomes challenging um so where are
the rest of the pictures for the basement roslyn what's this picture showing so that's showing the
entrance. Okay, so that's going from the, I'm standing at the front door here going into the unit.
That's from the hallway to the, and then that's the door that takes you to the in-law suite.
And then this is the area where you have the kitchen area, right?
Correct. There's nothing there, right? Well, it's a sink and looks like where a refrigerator was or
something was there and then on the right i'm sorry so on the right is that that block wall
that was the that was formerly the garage correct uh where the cabinets are at i'm looking at this
so is that is the photo on the left the so the the one with the picture with the stair in that
This is an entirely single-family block.
The City Planning Commission recommends that the board deny the proposed use variance for two dwelling units.
Mr. Chair, can I just...
I'm sorry, can I just...
Sure, sure, sure.
So this is a rather large lot, 1,446 square feet.
Well, there are nearby single-family homes that are now multifamily.
5960 Schistler is one of them, which is on the next street over.
And everything is above grade.
There's a separate entrance, and there are two parking spots available, one for each unit.
So MI 2024, 002, 062, 6045 Schistler Street, I vote no.
Michael Johns, my vote is no.
Tana Graham, my vote is no.
I win. My vote is no.
No, Shahid. My vote is no.
Thank you, Counsel.
Number four.
MI 2024
002-378-3943
Mount Vernon Street.
Meredith Verlaker is the attorney.
There's a recommendation
of support from the Mantua Civic
Association.
That way we're joining
as a panel shortly, sir.
Thank you.
Good afternoon.
Counsel, we've, just for the record, state your name.
You've already been sworn today.
Meredith Ferliger, F-E-R-L-E-G-E-R.
You identify your client, the relationship to this property.
My client is owner F-L-L-C, which is the owner of the property, represented by Rami Shrine.
Chair has a few questions.
good afternoon council do you agree to wait to read another refusal or stipulate to his accuracy
i do have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to
proceed with his case five days in advance of this hearing i did yes thank you council please proceed
thank you again good afternoon mr chairman members of the board meredith ferlinger of
Dilworth Paxson, the property before the board today is 3943 Mount Vernon Street,
which is a vacant lot measuring just under 1,100 square feet at the corner of Mount Vernon Street
and Union Street. The exhibit packet includes 15 total exhibits. Just by way of preliminary
summary to set the stage for this fairly minor request, this property was previously approved
and is currently permitted for the construction of a multifamily dwelling to contain two dwelling
units. As we'll explain, the request today is de minimis and seeks to add one extra unit for a
total of three units. The board will note that the original application that was filed with L&I
requested to increase from two to four units, but the request has now been pared down to only request
one more unit than is already approved. So if the board is inclined to grant the request today,
it should be with a proviso, maximum three units. I'll start first with a basic property overview.
As you can see on the aerial shown at exhibit six, and this is a view from the north,
you can see that this property sits right at this corner, which faces a large undeveloped block
on Union Street between Mount Vernon and Wallace Street. And across from the property,
as I mentioned, across from the property on the Union Street side, this entire block here
remains undeveloped. There's no evidence here of any recent approvals. Diagonal from the property,
again, crossing over Union Street, you'll see a swath of new multifamily development
with the corner containing five dwelling units. And you can see that right at the corner here.
Directly across the street from the property, also on Mount Vernon Street, a new 14-unit development has recently been approved, and you can see that area where it's currently just vegetation.
You can also see visible in these aerials a new construction project just south of this lot on Haverford Avenue with 33 units.
All of these densities that I've referenced are reflected on the permits that I have included in
the packet at Exhibit 10. Now looking at the zoning map at Exhibit 5, you'll see that this
property is owned to RSA 5, having been rezoned from CMX 2 at some point in the past. Looking
more closely at the photographs at Exhibit 7, again you'll see the corner vacant lot that is
the subject of this application. And again, it's right here. You can actually see it staked out
from the survey that was done. Looking, and again, this is just another view a little bit farther back.
Looking, and again, this is just another view a little bit farther back.
This next view is looking from the Union Street side of the property, and again, looking at the property towards Mount Vernon Street.
Looking east on Mount Vernon, to the right here where the vegetation is shown, this is the location of that approved 14-unit development that is approved to be constructed directly across the street.
Looking west on Mount Vernon Street, you will see the five-unit development here right across the corner that I referenced earlier, as well as other multifamily construction further south on Union Street.
And you can get a better view of that on this next photograph.
Looking now north on Union Street, you'll again see what I pointed to earlier, the block directly across the street here, which currently sits completely unimproved.
And finally, we have included photographs of the zoning posters, which were timely posted on September 24th.
Now, as I mentioned earlier, although not directly relevant to today's request, this lot was previously zoned CMX-2 prior to the 2017 Mantua rezoning.
Back in 2019, prior to my client purchasing this property, the then owner was granted a zoning permit by variance to construct a new attached structure for a two-family dwelling.
I'll bring up that permit here.
And you can see that was issued in 2019.
The former owner then further secured a building permit in March of 2021, and the zoning permit
and the building permit were then both transferred to my client upon his purchase.
However, after several years have gone by, my client ultimately determined that the development
that was previously approved with two units would not be viable in this location in light
of materially higher construction costs that then existed in 2019 when this was first approved,
and most importantly, given the types of units that are typically marketable in this particular
area. My client has been developing and renting in this area for nearly 20 years and has significant
experience to assess the viability of any particular proposal. As previously designed,
each of the two units were nearly 2,000 square feet each, which is entirely out of character
for this area. The prior zoning permit, as I referenced, is shown on the screen here
at Exhibit 8. And this application does not propose to change anything about the structure
that was previously approved. And again, you can see here the refusal that was previously issued
and approve the notice of decision. Now, prior to the 2019 approval, and I'll scroll back up here,
the property was historically used as a three-family dwelling dating back to 1963,
which is consistent with today's request. And again, you can see that historical permit here
shown at Exhibit 8. And again, back in 1963, up until the structure was demolished,
it was used as a three-family dwelling. Now, in light of the owner's determination that the prior
approval is not constructible, the owner sought to redesign the interior to create more marketable
and affordable units for this area. The most efficient redesign ultimately resulted in just
one extra unit. The new floor plans are shown in the packet at exhibit 11. This design now has a
mix of unit types including one, two, and a three-bedroom unit. Each of these units is bi-level
and they are still extremely large. Unit one, which is shown in green here in a closer view,
is a two-bedroom, two-and-a-half bath unit of over 1,300 square feet that spans across three
floors. Unit two is a one-bedroom unit, one-and-a-half bath of 898 square feet spanning two
floors. Unit 3 is a one-bedroom, one-and-a-half bath unit. Unit 3 is a three-bedroom, four-bathroom
unit of about 1,500 square feet across two floors, which also has the use of the private
roof deck. And let me zoom out just so you can see Unit 3 a little bit better. This unit
mix is far more consistent with the Mantua community's desire to see a mix of unit types
and price points. Trash will be stored in the rear, which can be accessed given the
Trash will be stored in the rear, which can be accessed given the property's location on a corner.
We have also included a rendering of the structure, and as I mentioned, the zoning dimensions of the structure are not proposed to change from what was previously approved, so this was filed as a change of use application.
We do have the project architect here in case the board has any questions on the new design.
Now, regarding the refusal, the proposal received only one refusal for the proposed multifamily use.
The refusal is not specifically for the additional unit, but is issued, as is common, as if the entire proposal is prohibited.
You can see here it's issued as if the four units are entirely prohibited.
As the board has seen, this proposal is fully permitted for two units, and the scope of the board's review today is just limited to that one additional unit.
This is how L&I issues these types of refusals, so I'm just making this note so that the scope of review is clear.
As I mentioned, the structure itself is not changing.
So this change only impacts the interior layout and, again, is being done to create much more efficient and marketable units with a much more desirable design with a wide range of unit types.
The applicant submits to a hardship given the history of the property, the size of the property, as well as the context of this neighborhood and block.
As I mentioned, the multifamily use is not in question today, given the applicant's permitted right to build a duplex.
Even putting the current approval aside, proposing a new single-family or two-family home on this block would also represent a deviation from the predominantly higher-density multifamily development at this corner.
As I referenced earlier, this corner has multifamily densities ranging from 5 units all the way to 14 units directly across the street from this property on Mount Vernon Street.
The additional density will directly contribute to the vitality of this neighborhood and create a more desirable living space for the future tenants.
The property is also uniquely situated in that it has a nearly six-year history of an attempted development that has never been achieved under the former owner or the now current owner.
The applicant is confident that today's request will finally achieve the missing balancing unit types that will enable this project to come to light.
The applicant submits the number of proposed units is the least minimum, and this is a
de minimis increase in just one unit that is directly driven by design and unit feasibility
considerations.
Furthermore, as I mentioned, the project was designed to include a significant mix of unit
types, sizes, and layouts to encourage a variety of different price points and tenancies.
We submit that the proposal will not increase congestion, harm neighbor's properties,
or impair light and air. A full analysis is provided in the memo of law submitted to the
board at Exhibit 12, and I'm happy to touch on any particular point in additional detail.
With respects to the community, as Mr. Chairman mentioned, we did meet with Mantua some time ago
and they did issue a letter of support for this one unit increase. So at this point,
I would ask if the administrator could look for Rami Shrine and have him unmuted.
Do you see him, Jason?
I don't see that individual in the virtual audience, but I see Waleska Stanka.
Waleska is the architect.
If the board has any questions for her, Rami should be there, unless he's with her.
You know what?
He may be with her.
Why don't we unmute Waleska, because I think he might be with her.
i've been allowed to speak hello please hi yes name and spell it please sure ramy shrine r-a-m-y
s-h-r-a-i-m right do you swear or affirm tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth
i do please proceed counsel thank you uh rami have you heard all the testimony and evidence
offered before the board today yes do you adopt that testimony as if it were your own
And was there anything else that you wanted to add before the board asks any questions they have?
Thank you.
Just out of curiosity, did you go from four to three as a result of RCO?
Mr. Chairman, actually, no.
That was really just done as a result of further design considerations that four units was really not going to be feasible or desirable here.
So it was really ultimately just driven by good design.
Questions from the board.
Questions from the board?
Speaking of that, can we go back to the floor plans?
Speaking of that, can we go back to the floor?
A question for the architect.
What's the height of the basement ceiling?
And what's the depth of the slab of the basement below grade?
Yes, this is the architect.
Could you please state your name again and spell for the stenographer?
Valeska Stantke, W-A-E-L-E-S-K-A-S-T-A-N-D-K-E.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
Yes, I do.
Please proceed, Michael.
Yes, what is the depth of the basement below grade?
It's nine feet, usable space.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
What's the depth of the basement?
Below the ground is four feet.
We have five feet raised from the ground.
Okay, so you're five feet above the ground, and the egress wells, can we see the elevation?
Yes, give me one second.
Yeah, Mr. Johns, this is from the original approval. This was not updated since there's no
change to this so this was this was from the original approval here okay so so so based on
this there's really no egress well that's uh i guess needed i mean you show it in the you show
it in your plan but yeah we have that on the plan maybe to raise a little bit the height of the
windows just in case okay but you have a nine foot ceiling height and your windows are fully
above grade exactly correct the 3d shows it right okay can you go back to the floor plans again just
for a second okay and each one of these units are bi-level all them are bi-level all of them are
bi-level okay only the third floor unit has the uh access to the roof or do they exactly okay so
just the third floor unit okay when the one bedroom is spread over three floors though
is that correct that is the two bedroom unit the two bedroom is spread over three floors
yeah the basement is just mechanical we create like a small office we have the water meter that's
the front of the building a small powder room laundry and the the second floor yeah better
so the first floor the entrance is from the street we have the living kitchen and a big pantry
the access going down and up then the second the third floor or second of the building we have two
bedrooms two bathroom spaces trash storage how are you storing your trash it's in the backyard
if you go to the plans again you can see the backyard there so we will have a gate
from Union Street, accessing that area
and that will be the trash area.
I'm sorry, Mr. Jones.
There's also a common alley in the rear there as well.
And one quick question.
The entrance is on Union Street or Mount Vernon?
We have an access from Mount Vernon to Unit 1.
We have access on the Union Street
towards the other building.
towards the other two units so on the other side of this diagram there's uh entryways
yeah this this 3d was the the previous 3d that we use for two units so you can see that the
windows are like on the ground but it has two axes right but this this rendering doesn't quite
match yeah i was gonna say it doesn't match exactly right because we are not changing the
structural on this just the layout when we get the approval we will do that again right so you
got to do in the front and you got to do on the side exactly then we kept just one on the side
that will access the unit in the rear and go up to the third unit okay and the unit that's in the
rear that where you have your that the pointer is that that front's what street that's the front
unit that's the green the green one is the front unit okay and union is on the left exactly
the questions from the board i guess to continue so where for unit one are they taking their are
they supposed to take their trash all the way around down union street to the trash storage
all the three units have to do that yeah but the other ones have exit and egress closer to the rear
that so that they're they're kind of pulling their trash all the way around the corner
So that they're kind of pulling their trash all the way around the corner.
No, they don't.
Or is the assumption that they'll, the front unit has no access to the shared stairwell.
So their only exit would be onto Mount Vernon and then to walk around the corner.
So Waleska, can you just address, because commonly units, especially of this size, would have an interior trash storage area.
So that, you know, to address board member Wynne's concern that if, you know, this very large 13, almost 1400 square foot unit, if they were not interested in walking their trash all the way around to the common area, can you confirm that there would be an interior ventilated trash storage area within their unit, you know, so that they have somewhere to stop?
Yes, we can make it. Yes.
And then, just to be clear, I want to know where, how are the mechanicals being accessed
for the purple and the blue unit?
Each unit has mechanical spaces.
So this one, the green one, we have it underneath the stairs, you can see that.
For the second unit, we also have it underneath the stairs and against to the unit one, you
so we have a laundry under the stairs
and we have a big mechanical area
for just HVAC and the water heater
I was thinking more electric
where are their picometers going
and their panels
the panels will be outside
on the facade
on which street?
on the Union Street
towards the rear yard
and the third unit
you mean the meters
the meters
yeah I asked about the meters and the panels and then we have the mechanical over yeah towards the
front of the building and we have the laundry room exactly on the same point in the back yes
okay other questions from the board question are the units all electric or yes all electrical
and so the pico meters you said are going to be on the outside of the building where are the
so there's no pgw service no no we don't have gas in our units okay
questions or comments from our attorney hillary emberson i'm only to note that the because the
refusal does say four units if the applicants now are requesting three that would require
a proviso if the board decides to grant the application thank you questions or comments
from the virtual audience.
Yes, Chair.
We have Wendellin Morris.
Why could you please state your name
and spell for the stenographer?
Wendellin Morris,
could you please unmute yourself?
I'm sorry, Chair. She's unmuted, but she's not responding.
Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?
I see no handshake.
Planning Commission.
This is Ron Bednar, City Planning.
The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing RSA 5 residential single-family zoning at this location.
The city rezoned this block in 2017 in a community requested map change.
There's no unique physical circumstance or condition of this property.
We're prevented from being used informally with the code.
This is primarily a single family block, but we are aware of the approved duplex.
The City Planning Commission recommends the board deny the proposed use variance for any additional dwelling units.
Mr. Chairman, just very briefly, this is not a predominantly single-family block, as the evidence I presented today shows. I would also just like to note that Gwendolyn Morris is one of the board members for Mantua, so I suspect she was just here to reconfirm their letter of support.
MI 2024 002 378 3943 Mount Vernon Street I vote yes with proviso maximum three units
uh Michael Johns can I ask but my vote will be yes also but I just want to ask can we
um ask that they uh work with Pico to try to get the meters on the rear as opposed to the front
I don't know whether we could do that as a proviso, but can we ask that?
I don't know whether we could do that as a provisor, but can we ask that?
Yeah, I don't know if we can do that as a proviso.
I know that is the case in some overlays, but technically I don't know what PICO requires
and where they can put things, but I think it's fine if the board would like to put that
on the record as a request to the applicant.
But I'm a little hesitant, without further research, to include that as a proviso.
Well, thank you.
I take that as advisement to work to try to get those meters on the back.
They look horrible everywhere.
The folks are doing that.
But Michael Johns, my mother.
Maritza, you okay with that?
I agree with Hillary that I don't know if that's an enforceable proviso or not.
But board member Johns, I am confident that my client would be happy to work with PICO to see if that's feasible, given that this is a corner lot.
But I am certain that they would have no problem.
But again, this is ultimately up to Pico.
Right, exactly.
Thank you.
Michael Johnson, my vote is yes with proviso.
Can I agree?
My vote is yes with proviso.
I win.
My vote is yes with proviso.
Thank you.
Ishmael Shaheed, my vote is yes with proviso.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, counsel.
Number seven, MI 2024.
304-002-809, 1329 South 22nd Street.
Alan Nockamson is the attorney.
Unanimous support from the Point Breeze Community Development Coalition.
Applicant also has the support of approximately 12 individuals on a petition.
Alan Nockamson has been promoted to a panelist.
see hillary we're going to hold the vote on this um actually i believe um
the this afternoon the the revised refusal the amended refusal came in
um is that is that right mr knockamson i think you just i think he came in with our original
submission to the board so but yes we have to revise we have the updated refusal okay yeah no
i it's dated for today so i don't really okay maybe i'm wrong then we did just yeah i think
Yeah, it just came in, and Alex sent an updated packet.
So you could go over it with – you could go over that with the board,
and we would just – we don't need to hold it because we now have the refusal.
I apologize.
Oh, no, that's okay.
That's okay.
Late breaking –
Alan Ockamson, just for the record, could you state your name?
You have already been sworn.
Alan Ockamson.
Could you identify your client in relationship with the property?
Yes, my client is HHS Realty LLC. In the virtual audience is its member, Hussain Hussain.
Our vice chair has a few questions.
Good afternoon, counsel. Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate towards accuracy?
Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?
Yes, we have.
Thank you, counsel. Please proceed and share your screen.
Thank you. Other than the fact that we gave an updated refusal. That's, I believe, the only document that we updated.
Understood.
Hi, here to present 1329 South 22nd Street.
So what we're looking to do is we're taking a property that has a bigger footprint or a building structure has a bigger footprint than what's proposed.
So that's one of our variance requests is we're actually lining up the occupied area to create this.
three-story structure, which was originally four stories and was originally three residential units
and one commercial space. And now it's two residential units and one commercial space.
And this property has a history of mixed-use usage. So during my presentation, I'm going to
show you the original notice of refusal. And then we made modifications based on input from the
community. And now you'll see the amended refusal. Then you can see the letter of support from the
Point Breeze CDC, which I believe was unanimous support. We also did a petition. My client is a
well-known landlord in this area. He does housing choice vouchers for his properties, and he would
do this for this property as well. But, you know, he had many signatures nearby of people who are
in support of this project. And part of what we did was there was great input by the community
on the commercial nature of this property. Originally, I think it was vacant.
the commercial nature of this property. Originally, I think it was vacant. We proposed
vacant commercial space of CMX2. There was a push for a coffee shop. That's why we had an amended
refusal for, hopefully, to get an operator in there for this small space as a prepared food
shop, but the intention is a coffee shop. You'll see from Exhibit 5, the property history, that
this was mixed-use, mixed-use property. Exhibit 6 is an aerial view, which you'll see that the
building currently takes a lot more occupied area than allowed by the Philadelphia zoning code and
is greater in terms of variance than what is being requested today by way of the new proposed
building structure. We'll review maps of the area. Again, we're a corner property, which tends to be
moved by Unit of Nature, especially having some type of commercial unit on the ground floor,
which we hope to do here as well. Photographs of the property and the surrounding area are
plants and drawings, which were drawn by Chris Johnson of 24-7 Design. The intention was to
have responsible trash maintenance and removal plan by having the trash in the rear for this
corner property. And each residential unit will have an outdoor area, as you'll see.
Our RCO meeting notice, again, we met with the community on multiple occasions.
Through negotiations, I think we created a much better, stronger project.
Our application for appeal to the CPA, deed to the property, showing that HHS Realty LLC is the owner of the property.
And then finally, our Certificate of Tax Clearance, showing that HHS Realty LLC owes no real estate taxes on account of this property.
At the conclusion of my presentation, I'll have Hussain virtually raise his hand.
I'll ask him a few questions so he can adopt my testimony, and we can also answer any questions the board may have.
Also in the virtual audience is Christopher Johnson, the architect on this property, who is with 24-7 Design.
So the notice of refusal, not that this matters legally from a decision point of view,
but you can see we originally suggested having three units plus a commercial space on the ground
floor. We have the same refusals as what we have in the updated refusal, which is actually is dated
for today, October 23rd, 2024. So if the board feels so inclined to grant the zoning variance,
I would just have a proviso just to make sure from a housekeeping point of view that the board
acknowledges this updated refusal. So the proviso would be based on the notice of refusal dated
October 23rd, 2024. But as you can see here, we went down from three units to two units. We also
reduced the height of the building. Before, we were still, as of right, 38 feet high. But the
community said it's a little too high for the community. We don't want three units. We want
two units. So now we're at two units, 32 feet high, which is as of right as well. And instead
of just having a vacant commercial space, which we anticipated putting a CMX2, we are, you know,
putting both feet in, and hopefully we're going to find an operator as a prepared food shop on
the first floor and the lower level. And the three refusals are as follows. Because this is an RSA5
property, any commercial use, whether it's, you know, CMX2 type of uses or even a prepared food
job would require variance. Secondly, because we're asking for multifamily use, and this is
a rather large property, but regardless, because we're asking for multifamily use,
that's a variance. And then finally is the occupied area, where we're only allowed to
occupy 80% of the lot while we're asking for more, but we're asking actually less than what
currently exists there with the current building structure that's there.
Letter of support, again, kind of states, you know,
what I think the chairman stated about the fact that we have
unanimous support.
And then, you know, again, we circulated
a petition of nearby neighbors. Again, my clients and known quantities
He's a landlord in this area and other areas as well.
But, you know, he, you know, just and then this doesn't matter from zoning perspective, but he intends to use the housing choice voucher program for the residential units because he uses it for his other units as well.
So I think that was also something that was impactful for them.
And it's not just words because he has other properties, I think, even on this block, which currently use that program as well for their tenants.
And then this is just a zoning permit, which shows that this property was mixed use at one point as well.
And then this is just a zoning permit, which shows that this is a zoning permit.
And then aerial view of the property.
Again, this is the current building structure at 1328, 29 South 22nd Street.
But you can see it takes almost full lot coverage here.
Our lot coverage is less.
We're at 85.8%.
The existing lot coverage currently for the current building structure is 100%.
And this is maps of the area.
Again, typically from a planning perspective, a lot of these properties in Point Breeze and other parts of the city tend to be multi-unit in nature, mixed use.
We would hopefully have the board think that this is a reasonable accommodation under the circumstances.
We're at the corner of Earp and 22nd Street, and then again, where we are in the neighborhood.
Photographs of the property. Again, this is from 22nd Street.
All right. This is from Earp Street. Oh, geez, hold on a second. My diary's going low.
So, this is the property from Herb Street.
These are the orange notice posters from both streets, 22nd and Herb as well.
This is 22nd Street from the right of the property to the left of the property,
Herb Street to the right of the property, and to the left of the property.
Our plans and drawings, again, by 24-7 Design.
But you can see that even the commercial space, we wanted to get a lot of light and air with the glass.
You know, you could see that there's, for each unit, it's on its own floor.
So this is residential unit number one, has an outdoor area.
Residential unit number two has an outdoor area.
And there's a lot of light and air with the front of the building, how the windows are situated.
it. And then, you know, this is from the Earp Street as well. You can see we have its own
rear yard, which not on these plants, but it will be segmented with the trash. And the trash
for the commercial unit would be stored in the lower level. The residential trash would be stored
outside. And then this is the commercial space on the first floor. It's not including the lower
level, it's 745 square feet. And then if you look at units one and two, unit number one's on the
second floor, that's a one-bedroom, one-bath, almost 800 square feet. I think it's like 790
square feet. And then unit number two is also its own floor. So you have windows front to back
and on the side even, where that is one-bedroom, one-bath, 779 square feet.
And then there's a roof deck also for unit number two.
Meeting notice, again, we met with the community multiple times.
The last time we met with the community was exactly one month ago on September 23rd at 6 p.m.
We emailed the community notice that went out along with proof of mailing of that notice two weeks beforehand to the coordinating RCO and other relevant parties.
193 addresses were notified by mail of that community meeting.
This is the proof of mailing or application for appeal that we filed on behalf of our clients, along with the original notice of refusal and the project information form.
The deed to the property showing that HHS Realty LLC is the owner of the property.
And then the Certificate of Tax Clarence showing that they owe no real estate taxes for the property.
I would ask that Hussain virtually raise his hand.
sir could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
sir hello yes hi sir could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
Hussain, Hussain, H-U-S-S-E-I-N, H-U-S-S-E-I-N.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Please proceed, counsel.
Yes, Hussain, you heard everything I had to say today about your zoning matter.
Yes, I did.
And is it true and correct?
And do you adopt it as your own testimony?
Okay, thank you.
Questions from the board.
questions or comments from art yeah just like did this second and third floor units are nice
questions or comments from our
size units really yeah i thought we thought thank you we thought so too and it gives a lot of light
in there with the window configuration as well yeah and a legitimate handicap accessible
toilet room in the commercial space.
We like working with Chris Johnson of 24-7 Design.
Questions or comments from our attorney?
Hillary Amberson.
Just as Mr. Notcomson noted,
this case would be voted on per amended refusal
dated 10-23-24. Thank you.
Thank you.
Maximum two units, Hillary. Yes, you can. You can do that as well.
Mm hmm. Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Yes, Mr. Chair, I have a hand up from a user number two. I will speak.
Sure. Could you please could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
door six to unmute
i'm sorry tiffany green concerns is a point brief tiffany just for the record could you spell your
name for the sonographer t-i-f-f-a-n-y-g-r-e-e-n right you swear affirm to tell the truth the
whole truth nothing but the truth yes please proceed we appreciate that yes we appreciate
the applicant making the changes that the community wanted as well.
But we just wanted to call in to just confirm that there was an email sent out on October
16th stating that the two units here at this property would be under the Housing Choice
Voucher Program and that it would state that the applicant would keep that.
Okay, I'm sorry.
It's the end of the day.
And then we appreciate him, you know, with providing affordable units for the community. Okay.
Thanks, Tiffany. Thanks for your call.
Anyone else in the first audience?
No further answers, Mr. Chair.
Planning Commission.
This is Ron Bednar City Planning.
The comprehensive plan recommends no change to the existing RSA-5 residential single-family zoning at this location.
There's no unique physical circumstances or condition of the property from being used in conformity with the code.
We are aware for two family housing units are on the 1300 block of South 22nd Street, but the remaining area is primarily single family.
City Planning Commission recommends that the board deny the proposed use variance for additional dwelling units.
Mr. Chair, can I just respond briefly?
Oh, thank you.
So if you look at the history of the property, this has been a mixed-use property before, and there are multiple entrances showing multi-units as well.
Thank you.
MI 2024-002-809, 1389 South 22nd Street.
I vote yes.
proviso per amended refusal dated 10-23-24 and maximum two residential units and commercial
on the first floor? That is correct, Mr. Chair. Michael Johns, my vote is yes with proviso.
Senator Graham, my vote is yes with proviso. Iowen, my vote is yes with proviso.
Ishmael Shahid, my vote is yes with proviso. Thank you, Councilman.
Number nine, MI 2024-004-303, 1924-36 Washington Avenue.
Justin Crick is the attorney.
Letter of unanimous support from Point Breeze Community Development Coalition.
Good morning.
can you please state your name and spell it for the court stenographer yes justin crick k-r-i-k
where are firm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
i do would you identify your client and relationship to the property
yes my client is ocf realty and it is the tenant of the property vice chair has a few questions
Good afternoon, counsel. Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?
Good afternoon, counsel. Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or stipulate to attack?
Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?
Thank you, counsel. Please proceed and share your screen.
Thank you very much. Members of the board, we are here today for the property at 1924-36 Washington Avenue.
It is a very large property located in an I-2 medium industrial zoning district.
The current first floor of the property has already been approved for, and we are not seeking to change existing uses as an existing bakery, as well as a professional office space.
The request for this application is to use the second floor for personal services to have a fitness center gym located in the second floor of the property.
The refusal that was received is for the fact that this is in an I-2 industrial zone and personal services are expressly prohibited there.
But again, noting that there has been a grant in the past, there's been granting a sit-down restaurant with signs.
But right now, the current uses of the property that are approved and exist are a bakery, artisan industrial bakery, although not industrial in that sense, but professional office uses to remain previously approved.
There is no development of the property, just interior renovation to to create the space that is proposed.
As you'll see along Washington Avenue, and this is at the corner of 20th and Washington, many of the properties nearby are listed as I2 industrial, but many of them also already have commercial uses approved and existing in them.
And that is because there is just a little bit less of a desire for certain industrial uses, whereas there's been a drive for more commercial use in the area, as is noted by the RCO in their sentiments that I'll describe later.
This is just a map view that will give you a little bit more of an insight as to what's here.
some building supply stores, but what is notable, and let me first show you, this is the intended
look of the building as well. The second floor that you see from all of these windows along
the second floor would be this gym fitness center facility. And this is the concept of
what the inside would look like with these really nice open windows and open floor plan design.
Currently, the property is just in development stage and open and actually raw and undeveloped space with the intent of placing this gym there.
You'll notice very small in this picture, and I'll go to another picture shortly, directly across the street in one of the other industrial zoned areas is this other business, Open Box Athletics.
And Open Box Athletics, I will just show you, here's our property, here's the second floor, not saying that this picture is a little old, but this is the second floor of the building that is intended to be used for the gym.
And directly across the street, we have Open Box Athletics, which in April of 2023 received zoning approval to place a gym, a fitness center gym, directly across the street in this same I2 zoning classification.
This is a concept of the open floor plan.
There will be locker rooms and certain other amenity areas that are customary to a gym and fitness center.
The applicant is OCF Realty, and it will act as a sub-landlord for that gym fitness center, but also manages the building under a long-term lease.
the notification had been sent to the Point Breeze Community Development Corporation which
held and here are copies of the RCO notice that was sent and proof of mailing or exemplar of the
bulk mailing certification. Now the Point Breeze Community Development Corporation met
on September 23rd. They issued this letter on October 1st. With 20 individuals present at the
meeting, seven voted. And of those seven that voted, it was unanimous. There were no no votes,
no opposition to this. They did break it down for us to let us know that there was only one person
of those votes that were within two blocks and others were from the RCO board.
of those votes that were within two blocks, and others were from the...
But what's notable is that this RCO is very thorough in providing feedback where it was
given.
And you'll see that people are hopeful for commercial uses and to attract more businesses
to the Point Breeze corridor, starting up a new business, and again, pointing out and
recognizing that this neighborhood and this board has already approved the exact same
use directly across the street within about a year, the last year, back in April of 23.
The applicant posted the property with both the community notice and then with the zoning
hearing notice along the frontages of the property.
We believe that the use is appropriate for the area and that it would be slightly disparate
to and a hardship to the occupant, to the tenant and applicant, I'm sorry, to not be afforded
similar treatment in the area where this type of use is permitted. And it seems to be in the spirit
of the code and the spirit of the plan for the area to allow and address additional commercial
uses. This would not in any way harm the neighboring properties. There's no further
development that would impair the air or light. And it would not be a burden on any of the public
facilities in fact that any more so than a potential industrial use would on things like
water and sewer uses um and with that i would bring on my client um i have ori feibush who is
a principal of ocf realty to unmute and adopt the testimony
they've been allowed to speak mr pine bush could you state your name please and spell for the court
stenographer ory feybush o-r-i f-s and frank e-i-b-u-s-h do you swear or affirm to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do please proceed counsel uh mr feybush have
you heard my testimony to the board today i have and is it true and correct to the best of your
knowledge? It is. And would you adopt my testimony as if it was your own? I would. And is there
anything else you wish to inform the board or advise the board of at this time? Sure. I just
want to share that the gym across the street is incredibly supportive of this concept. While both
are gyms, they see this as complementary and supporting their large vision here as well.
So both are very excited to coexist and support each other on our growing commercial quality here on Washington Avenue.
Thank you.
Questions from the board?
Questions or comments from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?
um just briefly just just briefly mr chair um the um the board has not received proof of tax
compliance um for this property and there are small balances showed um i believe they have
liens for 23 and 22 tax years so those need to be addressed before the board can vote on this matter
yes and i would uh i would ask that if the board would vote and or and or hold that for those we
are working with the landlord to address those promptly and that is as a tenant that is slightly
out of our hands but we are doing our best to have the the landlord address those uh immediately
questions or comments from the uh virtual audience
i have another hand from calling user number two
why could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer
star six to unmute star six to unmute okay thank you uh first of all i want to say that the
developer is this tiffany yes it is uh tiffany you've already been sworn just for the record
uh state your name uh tiffany green concerns today please all right please proceed
Okay. First of all, for the developer and the lawyer, they need to know that all RCOs are equal. You need to respond to all RCOs, not just one.
Number two, there was a concern at the meeting. We asked to see the master lease because we wanted to make sure that the applicant had the power to sublease this property, okay, at the time.
subleased this property, okay, at the time, and it was agreed that they would send out that
and it was agreed that
master lease, which we never received at this particular point, which brings us to mind about
the landlord, because about the owner of the property, because as RCOs, we like to talk with
the owner so that legally we're not in any kind of, you know, situation down the road, okay, and that
we never received the master lease at this particular point, as well as we wanted to know
about the tenant uh the applicant refused to give us the name of the tenant the gym that was going in
because we wanted to you know know the name of the gym that was going and he refused to do that and
i'm not saying this to be to to anyway to uh upset the cba but when we when the when the when cdc
asked the captain if the zoney boy would ask you what the name of the gym was he would you tell
him he said no i will not so with that type we feel that type of attitude is just not uh conducive
really to being supportive.
But I say all that to say we're asking for a proviso on this,
that that space will only be used for a gym.
That's it, okay, going forward, nothing else.
If you approve it, that that space will only be for a gym and a gym only.
Anything else, the applicant will have to come back in front of us
and that he sends us out a copy of the master lease,
that he has the power to rent this property to another business we would like to have that
for the record if the zba would be uh thank you for your call um planning commission uh yeah this
is uh ron bednar city planning while the property is currently indicated for industrial as um
industrial use on the city plan given the physical circumstance of the site we
We recommend an request for fairness to be granted.
We're going to hold the vote, and we'll get back to you when we can, okay?
Yes, thank you.
Okay, thank you very much.
All right, number 12, MI 2024-005-235-3151 Market Street.
unanimous support
from Pound and Village Civic Association
also council member Gauthier
is in support of this variance
okay Mr. Chair
Ronald Patterson will be joining us
Good afternoon.
Mr. Patterson, you've already been sworn just for the record.
Could you please state your name?
Ronald Patterson with Claire Harrison Law Firm, 1835 Market Street.
Could you identify your client or relationship to the property?
Sure, Mr. Chair.
My client is Brandywine 3151 Venture LP, which is a Brandywine Realty Trust entity,
and they have a long-term ground lease from the owner.
Our vice chair has just a few questions.
Good afternoon, counsel.
Do you agree to weigh the reading of the refusal or stipulate to its accuracy?
Yes, I do.
Have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's needed to proceed with this case five days in advance of this hearing?
Yes, I have.
Thank you, counsel.
Please proceed and share your screen.
Thank you.
You can view my screen just to confirm.
yeah so um this application regards um 3151 market street you'll see it's the building on
the right with the arrow of course is it a corner of jfk boulevard and uh jfk boulevard here is a
little peculiar because back it actually occurs from behind the building and then exits out on
market street um the configuration then has two beach street frontages on jfk um almost completed
under construction. It's a 12-story building for use predominantly as a wildlife science
R&D office building with commercial uses on the first floor. Here are some recent photographs.
Three building frontages, as I mentioned, but technically two street frontages because JFK's
configuration uh the location and street are peculiar the building design has in a good way
has no um hardly any parallel uh building frontages with the streets and on the corner here
on market and jfk the building sets back creates a little bit of a court area so um with the
with the building uh brandywine prepared a comprehensive sign package and taking that
building brand new wine prepared a comprehensive sign package
package uh reviewed it and then broke it into a few parts the first part was of the package we
obtained the signage approval as a matter of right and they're predominantly a flat wall
accessory signs identifies the building the second part is is this this sign package
and that's why we're here today and show you a little diagram here
so this is a site plan
to orient yourself this is jfk in the rear around the corner here at the end on the market street
and market street is here what we're here today for our two freestanding signs
one here and one there um
so the package was filed with five signs three of the signs are wayfinding signs directional signs
ellen i issued the refusal saying that these two signs fronted on one street and the code provides
that you're only allowed to have one freestanding sign for street frontage uh the three-way finding
and directional signs uh are not considered freestanding signs for for that purpose uh the
signs do um comply with uh the allowable size here's one sign an area here's the second sign
this is schuylkill yards was one is the name of the building is one of the signs that we obtained
as a matter of right um with that said i want to ask you to promote mr uh christopher franklin
casein do we see his hand um yes he's been loud to speak
there could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer
Christopher Franklin, C-H-R-I-S-T-O-P-H-E-R, F-R-A-N-K-L-I-N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Thank you. Hi, Mr. Franklin. Where do you work?
Brandy Wine Realty Trust.
What's your position there?
Vice President of Development.
And so you're responsible for this building, I take it, correct?
Yes, that's correct.
And the display I'm showing here shows the two signs that we're here for today.
And you see how they're oriented.
They're kind of slanted.
Is that fair to say?
You want to describe how they're located?
Yes, they are slanted.
They are designed to provide visibility from Market Street and to provide visibility from JFK Boulevard.
So, perfect. So, naturally, we want to have a sign that has frontage on Market and on JFK. That's fair to say, correct?
That's correct.
Sign M01, this one here, is predominantly to face Market Street, invisible.
Yes, that's correct.
traveling west on Market. And this sign M0.02 is predominantly the visibility on Market Street
traveling east as well as JFK. Is that fair to say? That's correct. And these signs are being
used for what purposes? To signify the entrance to the Schuylkill Yard development overall and
specifically 3151 Market Street. And would it be fair to say they're also being used to promote
traffic safety so that the building can be easily identified? That's absolutely correct.
And with this, would it create a hardship if you were unable to appropriately identify and sign the
building? Is that fair to say? Yes, it would. We're fearful that pedestrians, bikers, and
vehicular traffic alike would find themselves circling the building
without the additional identification that we're requesting here because of
the three-sided frontage of the building that you mentioned earlier.
And by the way, you heard my presentation. Would you agree
it's true and accurate? Yes. Adopt it as if it were your own?
Yes. And lastly, although I did state that the signs
would otherwise comply with the allowable sign area
and locations. Is that fair to say? Yes. Okay. And additionally, with the state of the signs
were granted, these signs wouldn't would create no adverse impacts, but in fact,
but in fact would actually have a beneficial impact. Mr. Chairman, I also have our architects
would actually have a beneficial impact. Mr. Chairman, I also have
Thank you.
from Gensler who designed the signs. If you want to hear more about the signs. I don't know if
there's questions about the signs, we'll bring him along. And as you mentioned, there's a,
I'll go back to that, a letter from the Paladin Village Civic Association.
and supporting also the council the council council sorry yes council got the a and that
as well yes all right that's all right all right questions from the board
from our attorney should no chair i'm recusing from this uh vote okay thank you not at this
time, Mr. Chair. Questions or comments from the virtual audience? I do not see any further
answer, Mr. Chair. Planning Commission. This is Ron Bednar, City Planning. The City Plan recommends
no change to exist the current commercial zoning at this location. City Planning Commission has
no objection to granting the proposed variance. Thank you. MI 2024-005-235-3151 Market Street,
i vote yes it's another graham my vote is yes
i win my vote is yes
ishmael shaheed my vote is yes thank you counsel great thank you number five
MI 2024-002-410-2913-15 Kensington Avenue.
Michael Phillips is the attorney.
I'll be rejoining as a panelist.
Thank you.
There's a letter of opposition from the Somerset Neighbors for Better Living.
There's also a letter of opposition from Council Member Squal.
The letter is also signed by Council Member Lozada, Driscoll, and Harrity.
And the applicant has also provided, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 letters of support.
Mr. Phillips, could you please state your name and spell it for the court stenographer?
Michael Phillips, M-I-C-H-A-E-L, P-H-I-L-L-I-P-S, 1500, I'm sorry, 1835 Market Street, Suite 1400, Philadelphia PA, 19103.
I'm here with Claire Harrison, Harvey Bransberg.
Where are a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Could you identify your client in relationship to the property?
Sure. I'm here on behalf of Prevention Point Philadelphia, Inc., which is the tenant at 2913 to 15 Kensington Street, where it has been a tenant since 2015.
So coming up on 10 years, I have with me Silvana Mazzella, who is the interim executive director with Prevention Point Philadelphia.
Also have additional witnesses, including Janice Woodcock, who is our land planning expert.
Dr. Jessica Meisner, Dr. Monica Van Zandt, and we also have James Sherman, Callie Lamb,
and Donnell Colbert, who are all prepared to speak on behalf of the application.
So, Mr. Phillips, our vice chair has a few questions, but what we want to try to do,
how long do you think your presentation will take?
My presentation should probably take maybe 20 to 30 minutes.
All those witnesses?
Including the witnesses, probably closer to 30, 45.
So what we'll do is we'll see where we stand when we're done with your presentation, okay?
With your witnesses, your first part of the case.
Our vice chair has a few questions.
Sir, do you stipulate to the reading of the refusal and do you agree with its accuracy?
Yes, I do.
But I want you to share your screen and start your presentation.
Certainly.
Can everyone see my screen?
It should be coming up any minute.
Is it there?
Yeah, we're good.
Okay. So good afternoon. Again, Michael Phillips on behalf of Prevention Point Philadelphia.
Point Philadelphia. We are here seeking special exception approval to legalize group medical
We are here seeking special exception approval to leave.
services at 2913 Kensington. Client has been utilizing the property for group medical services
since around 2019. When they moved into the property in 2015, they obtained a permit for
personal services and sole medical practitioner offices, which is a permitted use in the CMX
two-and-a-half zoning district.
They were unaware that upon increasing from one medical provider to they have a maximum
of three, that that would require additional approval.
Upon becoming aware of that, we filed the application and are just seeking to increase
increase the use from that sole practitioner to the group medical with all other existing uses, including the personal services, to remain.
So I did hear Mr. Chairman note the letter of opposition from Somerset Neighbors for Better Living as well as Kensington Caucus.
I will point out there are many more than three neighbor letters of support.
There are 22 individualized letters of support, and there are petitions, letters and petitions of support that are we have signed by over 150 members of the community.
I never said three. I didn't say three.
I said nine letters.
Oh, I said nine letters. My apology.
And these letters come from Gaudenzi, a project home, Pennsylvania Alliance of Recovery Residences and many medical providers who can all attest that the increase in use from one medical provider to two to three not only would not cause any detrimental effects to the community,
but is a major positive to the community in that it provides valuable resources and access to health care to a portion of the public who often is not thought of and who, you know, is in desperate need of this use.
So that, again, is the scope here.
This is a special exception.
This is not a variance.
So our duty is to show that we do not cause any of the detrimental impacts as set forth in the code.
And upon establishing that proof, the burden then shifts to the community to show that there would be detrimental impacts more so than what would be expected from any other medical service, medical office use.
and hear the testimony and facts that you will hear is clearly this does not.
And if anything, the increase from solo practitioner to group alleviates many of these issues that we'll be speaking to.
I also want to make a note that the medical services that we're speaking about are not just for the unhoused or those suffering from addiction,
but are available, utilized and make a positive impact on many members of the community.
not just the unhoused and people struggling with addiction.
And the goal should be making it easier for communities to access quality, caring, health and medical care, not the other way around.
So I will first want to start with calling Sylvana Mazzella to testify,
and she will speak to what exactly these services are that are being provided at the property,
how long they've been provided in the history of the use at the property.
Do we see her hand?
Yes, they've been allowed to speak.
Hello, can you hear me?
Hi. Yes, I can. Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
My name is Silvana Mazzella, S-I-L-V-A-N-A-M-A-Z-Z-E-L-L-A.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed, counsel.
Silvana, can you please tell the board your position with Prevention Point Philadelphia?
Yes, I'm the lead executive officer of Prevention Point Philadelphia.
And can you explain who is Prevention Point and what are the services that Prevention Point provides?
Prevention Point Philadelphia is a public health organization.
We are a multi-service organization.
We provide much more than medical care and some of the prevention services.
We provide much more than medical care and some of the prevention services that we are known for.
We have a drop-in center that serves as an entry point for people to come in and not only get medical care, get a mailing address, get public benefits, get health insurance, help with SSI, help with treatment, not only on site, but substance use treatment across the city.
People get help with mental health care, vocational supports, including volunteerism and employment, legal supports, and identification.
We have public restrooms for people.
We have food services, meal services.
We support, as Michael Phillips stated, all members of the community.
You do not have to be there for one service to get help.
We have housing services at another location. We have homeless outreach services. We have medical care, as you know, and a range of case management and other supports to link people to benefits and other services. There's an art program two days a week. There are different types of workshops. We have other providers, lawyers, et cetera, come in and do services for people.
um the property that you see on the screen here is that uh the property that we're here to discuss
today yes it is all right it's 29 13 to 15 kensington ave and just to orient uh the board
it is at the corner of uh kensington ave and uh monmouth and also fronts uh ruth and this is
zoned CMX5. Here is the front of the building on Kensington. And then this is the Monmouth Ave
location. And I'll just walk through. Sylvana, can you explain for the board what the interior
photos that they're seeing are right now? Yes. So you're looking at what you would enter if you
came in from the Kensington door, you would go into what we call newsroom two, a small staff
area, and then you'd be entering the front of the clinics. This wall houses four offices that are
used largely for HIV and hepatitis C testing, but also any other types of research projects
and counseling. To the left of the wall that you're looking at, that small purple square,
yes, you're going to see another set of rooms that look primarily like this. Those are used
for medical care, including hepatitis C treatment, medication for opioid use disorder. So we have a
substance use support services on site. We have PrEP, and we have HIV primary care.
We have wound care several days a week, and we have STI testing and treatment. Some of the rooms
on that side of the wall, as well as the opposite, are also used for case management. So someone
needs help getting mental health services, wants substance use treatment in another program,
including inpatient at somewhere else in the city. Somebody wants help with case management,
with benefits, with legal support. So depending on the day, some of the rooms are always medical
care. Other days, the rooms are used by different staff and case managers and services.
When you first, and I'm just running through some more pictures, when you first began leasing
the property. How many medical providers were there? When we started, we had one medical
provider. And when we moved into the building, the medical service that we had was medication
for opioid use disorder. We had what we call the STEP program, Supportive Treatment Engagement
Program. We've had that program since 2008. When we moved in, we had a bit over 50 patients.
we then became part of a center of excellence for opioid use disorder treatment with two other
program partners at other locations and for our COE we expanded services in 2016 and 2017 we got
a grant from the health department to do warm handoff we were you know quite frankly one of
the first warm handoff programs in the city, accepting individuals from hospitals, from
residential housing, and from CFCF to provide them with substance use medication treatment.
When we became part of the COE, we started expanding, and then we added
When we became part of the COE, we started expanding, and then we added prep navigation
before medical care, and then hepatitis C treatment.
In 2019, we got asked by the city to take over an HIV clinic that another partner had
been operating.
I also want to point out that during COVID in particular, we started to really expand
some of the medical services and patients.
we were one of the few programs that was consistently open Monday through Friday plus
Sunday for treatment for people. So we added services as there was a need in the community.
We did not want lines for care at the building. And we also wanted to, you know, part of the
expansion of providers was adding on specialties so that we didn't have generic but
wonderful providers, but people that had a specialty in HIV treatment or PrEP or treatment.
And who are the medical providers who provide services at the property?
So some of the specialties include Dr. Meisner, who does HIV primary care and some PrEP,
Dr. Van Zandt, who does a range of care in a range of services in the city, including Prevention
point, Dr. Simpson, who is an emergency medical provider and toxicologist, and a nurse practitioner,
Christy Petrillo. And the document I'm showing right now is this is a prevention point
document that was prepared by the organization. Is that correct? Yes. This is what we call our
PPP by the numbers. It outlines the different programs that we provide. And on the back,
we have the numbers of people that we serve and the services themselves. And the area that I've
just highlighted here, these medical services, it's, you know, the case management, HIV and
hep C, primary care, wound care, reproductive health care services. Those are the medical
services that are provided at 2913 Kensington. Is that correct? Yes. Now, these other services,
community engagement, prevention, social services, drop-in services are also all provided at 2913.
Is that correct? Yes. Okay. I mean, those are not the subject of this application,
what we're here today. We're here just for the medical services. I will have Dr. Meisner come
on and Van Zandt just to speak about, you know, the services. I just want to wrap up with.
And one minute, Mr. Phillips, just to be clarified, what you're asking for, you're already providing.
Correct. Right. So in other words, the services are already there. That's what you're asking for.
Correct. OK. And the services, again, to reiterate, the services are here.
We have a permit for sole practitioner. It is a by right use. That's right.
Just seeking to go up to group. So the group, you want to go up to group, but you've already went to group.
Yeah. Yeah. They went to group in 2019, not knowing that it required this addition permit. So again, we have wound care. And before we moved to one of the medical providers, can you just speak quickly to what is the wound care program? What services do they provide?
um the wound program uh started as a street based program through street side health um
well over 25 years ago um currently the program does a combination of wound care supply kits
for people with education on how to uh clean wounds but the providers that do wound care
do actual cleaning and treatment of wounds. They do that on site. And I also want to point out that
the wound care providers at Prevention Point are really seen as experts in the field and leaders
nationally. They have trained other providers in the city and elsewhere. In many ways, they've
kind of created a blueprint for treatment of wounds. And I also want to point out that we
have been doing wound care for much longer than even entering this building, and that the wound
care team has really changed the approach of wound care to meet the needs in the community.
Sylvana, can you expand upon that? When you say meet the needs of the community,
You know, can you distinguish what sort of wound care is needed in the community as opposed to, say, wound care my, you know, seven-year-old would need from falling, you know, in the backyard?
So years ago in our older facility, you know, 15, 20, 25 years ago, we did see wounds that in the city and nationally wounds that resulted in a lot of limb loss over time with with ongoing wound care and cleaning and treatment and follow up of wounds.
So years ago in our older facility.
We had really seen that diminish. In the last 10 years with fentanyl in Philadelphia and now xylazine, we're seeing very different wounds that do not heal properly. We're seeing wounds that arise even if people have not had an impact in that area of the wound.
And so they require much longer visits, more ongoing treatment and cleaning and follow-up.
And I do want to add, too, that not only is that a very specific type of care, but the follow-up services that we have been providing for years to people,
where people can come back and keep getting additional support and treatment and cleaning
of that wound so that it heals is something that saves the healthcare system a lot of money.
Some of our patients are not necessarily going into other medical facilities or into hospital
facilities, and when they do, it is sometimes quite late.
So to have this service actually does provide a financial benefit to the city, to the medical institutions that surround us, and to public health in general.
What about the SANA clinic? Can you explain to the board what that is?
The SANA clinic is our HIV primary care clinic.
We did have a partnership with a federally qualified health center on site to provide care here.
And the health department, knowing that we provided medical case management and navigation to HIV care for a very long time, asked us to operate this clinic on site, which we did.
We brought on Dr. Meisner, a national expert who is affiliated also with Penn Medicine, a hospital of the University of Pennsylvania.
And that speaks to what we said before, you know, one of the expansions of our medical care and providers was related to really trying to get experts in the field to provide the highest quality of care.
I will also point out that the sauna clinic is not just medical care, and that's something to be noted with all of our medical services.
People are not just getting a patient visit after checking in, getting medication or prescription or testing, lab work, and then leaving.
They are seeing a case manager.
So if someone has housing needs or they have mental health issues or they have legal issues, they are getting support.
When they get stable in their HIV care or their hepatitis C or their substance use and are now in recovery, they are getting support also from a recovery specialist.
But that case manager is also asking, what else do you need?
We have a food bank for people who are in the sauna clinic as well, and we support people also with their substance use treatment and engagement with other services through the sauna clinic and the other clinics.
How many days a week are medical services provided at the property?
Medical services are provided one day through Friday, though Friday is a bit of a shorter day for some care.
What are the hours?
Um, basically 830 to 430. People check in, they can check in first thing in the morning
and come throughout the day. And how many medical providers
at any one given time will be providing services at the property?
There are days where we have one provider, the most number of providers has been three,
And that has been because of specialization for two to three different types of services.
Why 2913 to 15 Kensington Ave for the location?
Why did Prevention Point decide to lease and provide services here in particular?
We had looked at another facility that was further north.
um when we got uh talked to about this facility we saw that this was further north than when we
where we were on lehigh and palthorpe but we saw a great need and um this is an area that does not
and this is an area that does not have, and certainly when we moved in, did not have
have and certainly
medical care immediately nearby. It, as you know, has a high overdose rate. It has
a large unsheltered population, and so this area has allowed us to provide a range of services
that were very well needed in the community. Do you provide safe injection sites?
Absolutely not. We do not do methadone. We do buprenorphine and other services that are able to be provided through medical care. And there is no inpatient treatment at this location either.
Okay. In response to any community concerns, are there any actions that you've taken to improve the property in general?
um we we have certainly with the landlord's help made a lot of improvements physical improvements
to the building um the with the landlord's help we have made physical improvements to the street
all of the sidewalks um abutting the building and the next street were redone a few years ago
as well as the front. We have done community cleanups. We've been doing that for years,
but this year in particular, the last 15 or so months, we have really stepped up
community cleanups. We have six days a week of up to three, an average of three hours a day
of staff and volunteers who are actively going out and cleaning the immediate area,
but also up and down Kensington Avenue, Allegheny. We might get calls or requests for support.
There's a crew that is actively cleaning McPherson Square, helping in some other programs.
We have a community engagement team that not only attends events and meetings, but does cleanups in
the area, partners with the library, with some after-school programs, with school programs,
helps direct food and other resources to community members. We've done sponsorship of
some youth programs and other community requests. We have a meal program every month that gives out
food bags to food for a week for a family of four to 75 families. We deliver them directly
to the community. The community engagement team goes out and does that. And we are first
responders in the area. What about security? So we did have a regular security crew through till
8 p.m. until the fall. We had a funding cut that was not specific to us. It was to several
providers that included a cut to our security budget. We did move some resources to be able to
hire a security specialist who's very well skilled in security and security management
and crisis de-escalation who started in mid-October, so fairly recently. And we have a team of staff
that are managing our doors and doing crisis de-escalation. And it is a range of staff,
So it includes people that are very skilled at crisis de-escalation and at managing people who might be having a mental health or other emergency.
And lastly, I just want to go into it because what we're talking about is specific to the medical services.
And, you know, you're in a unique position here in that we know firsthand what impact having the medical services at the property would be.
can you speak to what changes there would be in the effect if you were forced to decrease
the number of medical providers to just one? What would the result be?
So we might potentially have more lines or waiting of people needing medical care. We would not
necessarily have some of the specialties that we can offer that, again, save taxpayers
health care dollars, save hospital visits.
You know, we do partner with hospitals and take people as needed, but there would be
a fairly significant impact.
You would have much more crowding at the area hospital and CRC potentially.
potentially. And we might have to use other portions of our space for enhanced services
and we might have to use
that also might be marked routed. And again, no change, regardless of what happens here,
no changes to all of the other services that are being provided at the property, correct?
Correct. And, you know, finally, we have certainly tried to be good neighbors.
Um, we, this, this impact, if not approved would really affect the type of care that we can provide and the, the, the quality and specialty of care and, you know, providing more care through additional providers also supports more people for treatment and other medical care and reduces a lot of the health concerns in the area.
Thank you. I have no further questions for Ms. Modella and less members of the board.
Why don't we go into your next witness?
Thanks. And I will just reserve the right to call Ms. Modella again for any rebuttal.
Does any board member have any questions right now?
I have a quick question. What is the age? What is the minimum age for clients?
or is there a minimum age?
Sylvana, are you still there?
I believe she was cut off,
but board member Graham,
I'll get the answer to that question before it ends.
I do not believe there is a minimum age though.
And the other question is,
are there lines outside?
Is there enough space for folks to wait
or are there lines waiting outside normally?
So there is enough space to wait.
I was going to have Ms. Woodcock go through the floor plans, but you will see this, we have a waiting, this is a waiting room right when you walk in to the left, and then when you turn to the right are where the offices are.
So there is sufficient room to get people off the street and to wait.
There's also the community room in the basement and many areas inside.
And that is one of the goals to get people off the street and not, you know, congregating outside.
But so I'd like to at this time call Janice Woodcock.
I'm going to have to speak.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Yes, my name is Janice Woodcock.
I'm an architect and I prepared to study for this case.
Just for the record, could you spell your name for the court stenographer?
Certainly. J-A-N-I-C-E-W-O-O-D-C-O-C-K.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Please proceed.
I'll just have some brief wider to go through Ms. Woodcock's qualifications.
Ms. Woodcock, can you just state your educational background, please?
Sure. I have a master of architecture and I'm a registered architect in Pennsylvania.
a certificate of urban design from the University of Washington.
I also served with city for four years and two of them as the executive director of the city, Philadelphia City Planning Commission.
And have you testified before as an expert before the Philadelphia's Honor Board of Authority?
Yes, I have.
Okay. I'd like to offer Ms. Woodcock as an expert in the fields of architecture and land planning.
i'll accept her qualifications for that for architectural land planning
um did you uh prepare uh the report that uh is listed uh shown here um special exception
analysis for prevention point headquarters yes i did okay uh and uh what did you do to
familiarize yourself with the property? I visited the site. I interviewed the executive director.
I toured the Kensington corridor over a dozen times at different times a day,
and I did research in the history of the neighborhood and the planning policies for
the city to come to my conclusions. And you'd agree that personal services and sole medical
office, sole practitioner medical offices are both uses allowed by Wright at the property?
Yes, they are.
But group medical does require a special exception, correct?
That's correct.
And can you, for the board, just advise what is the standard for special exception and
how does this differ from a variance?
Well, variance required, the burden of proof is on the applicant to show that they don't
have a negative impact.
but for a special exception
But for a special exception, it's a little less strict.
it's a little less strict
The opponent needs to show that there's no impact to public safety, health, or welfare.
So there's a two-part piece.
The applicant does have to demonstrate that they don't have typical negative impacts on the neighborhood.
But then also the opponent has to show that this use harms the neighborhood.
So, the first requirement is that as the applicant, we can establish that these specific negative effects that I'm highlighting here would not be caused as a result of the proposed use more so than they would from any other average use, correct?
Correct.
Okay. And here, can you explain, you know, the circles that you made here? What does this show?
Sure. The orange circle is showing all of the services offered by Prevention Point at their site, 2315 Kensington Avenue, whereas the red circle inside is a subset of those uses, the wound care, HIV, PrEP clinic, the stabilization treatment and engagement program, all those things that Selenia described are just a part of the activities that go on in the building.
Now, you said you did some research into the historical context and the neighborhood in general. Can you just briefly summarize your findings for the board?
Briefly. Yes, this is a former working class neighborhood that has been known as a drug sales open air market for dozens of years and is known nationally for that.
I tried to provide a little bit of background about that so that the reader could understand that while we're supposed to be showing sort of typical land use issues, that this is a very unique neighborhood with special problems that are certainly being responded to by the medical and social service activities that you find on the street.
Now, we may hear or, you know, we have heard in some meetings that individuals have, I guess, pointed the finger, maybe a prevention point for causing negative impacts in the neighborhood.
And you personally researched that and investigated those claims, correct?
I did.
Okay. And you looked at a nine-block radius, is that correct?
It's a nine-block strip, and prevention point is about in the middle of that nine blocks.
Okay. And so we see here, so this was an analysis you did of the land use in the street, and you were looking at vacancies. Is that right?
Well, there were two things. I think that if we were trying to figure out what would be a negative impact in a neighborhood like this, when it's such a unique neighborhood, the two things that come to mind are vacant buildings, which attract nuisances, and also groups of people that are visibly not well and perhaps using drugs that congregate in front of these vacant buildings.
So what I wanted to do was to look at those two factors to see if the block around the prevention point clinic was any different or worse, any worse than the rest of the blocks.
So if you'd like, I can summarize my findings in both of those categories.
First, the vacant buildings, and then secondly, whether or not there were, I would call them idling people.
Sure, if you can, briefly.
So the degree of vacancy across the nine blocks is remarkably consistent, ranging between 35% of the structures to 43%, I think it's 42% or 43%.
The prevention point block is at 37% vacant, which is the average for the entire corridor.
So in this case, there is no more vacancy or less vacancy than the average rest of the blocks, and it's slightly better than the worst blocks.
And the next question goes to Board Member Graham's question just about idling persons and individuals who are potentially congregating in and around the clinic.
Can you speak to that?
Yes. So as I said, I went to the site over a dozen times, different times a day, to catalog not only the location of groups of people that were not walking but standing still or sitting.
and to see if there were patterns of use that were the same across all the blocks
and whether there might be concentrations.
And here, what we found of the nine, if nine is the most people
and the most groups that would cause a potential nuisance and one is the best,
that the prevention point block ranks...
that the prevention point block ranks number four.
So it's neither the worst nor the best.
And it's what you would expect in a neighborhood that has sort of a consistent problem
and it's a consistent character.
And lastly, you did a three-block detail.
uh excuse me you you did a comparison uh with the esperanza clinic block and a different clinic
block as well correct if you don't mind if you could just go to the previous slide i just wanted
to show people the method those little dots are people and they're in the color depends on when
when we saw them so that gives you an idea about the concentration of people and then if you go
the next slide now. I can continue. Remember, one of the questions is, does this prevention point
clinic have a worse impact than any other clinic that you would expect in this neighborhood?
So I looked at two other places where there were clinics. Esperanza is very similar, and it does
provide the social services to the surrounding neighborhood. And it had, if you were going from
ranking from one to nine again, with nine being the most people littering, Esperanzic would
rank seven. But there are other factors in this case, because they are also near the L. So there
were other, perhaps other reasons and not the clinic. And then the second clinic group I looked
at, it was a clinic group of clinics at the beginning of the block at the southernmost end.
And that one was seven, eight, eight out of nine rankings. So both of the other places are less, less of a problem in terms of idling folks than our prevention point clinic, which once again, ranks fourth.
And just to go into the specific negative impacts that we are required to assess in connection with the special exception approval, and I'll just briefly go through your findings here.
Does the use cause congestion in the public streets or transportation systems beyond that, which would be expected?
Not at all. This is a very well-served corridor, and most of the people who come to the clinic are on transit.
does the use overcrowd the land no this is in an existing building when that building is not
a very dense building or tall comparison to all the buildings in the area do the proposed group
medical uh services uh use impair uh light and air no there's um there aren't any buildings
close there's a street on one side and a vacant lot on the other and a vacant lot across the street so
really no no impact on on adjacent properties um does the uh proposed use uh overburden the water
sewer school park or other public facilities no in fact there's been a fundamental population
decline as you know in the recent decades the infrastructure is very well um sized does the
use uh impair or injure the uh the proposed use does it impair or injure the use of adjacent
properties? Again, there is a vacant lot, or I should say a parking lot across the street,
and then just adjacent to our building is a public street, and then a vacant lot on the
other side, so it does not affect those properties. And it's almost, it goes without
saying, but I have to ask it anyway for the record. Does the proposed group medical service
use endanger public health or safety by fire or other means? I think it's the opposite. I think
that many people who are in that neighborhood depend on it, and it's a life or death question.
And is the clinic consistent with Philadelphia's comprehensive plan?
It is occupying the border between the two plans, two district plans, and neither plan
addresses this corridor. Are there any detrimental impacts proposed by this use beyond that,
which you would normally expect from group medical office use?
And again, when I saw that terminology normal, I had to cast it in the normal definition for this neighborhood, and I would say no.
And would you expect any detrimental impacts tied from the increase in sole practitioner to group medical services?
No, I think it would have a negative impact because the whole design of the medical services requires that there is a integrated menu of services that reinforce one another.
So once you start to separate them, then they all become less effective.
And so just so I can make sure I'm clear here, do you believe that there would be more negative impacts caused by a reduction to sole practitioner or that there would be more negative impacts caused by the increase to group?
practitioner or that there would be more negative impacts caused by the increase to group medical?
I think that if you distribute the uses out over multiple sites which might happen that you would
have more you could have potentially have lines out in the street there would it would it's better
to have them all together so that there's the person can go in the building get out everything
they need and leave the building in one trip. I have no further questions for Ms. Woodcock.
Mr. Woodcock, one question. They talked recently about hiring security expert and people to
handle security problems. Did that change the structure outside or you were not involved in
that? I was not involved in that. That happened before I started to prepare this study. But I
will tell you that when I was comparing this site to the other clinics, there were often people
around the other clinics when there weren't people at the prevention point site. Now,
So I obviously I was I'm not there. I was not there all day for many days.
So there may be other folks that have to. Was that helpful that they had security to do that?
Yes, I think it is helpful because the security folks are not only there to act as like police would, they're ambassadors.
I understand. It's an outreach.
and to just build on that quickly uh is the addition or um uh provision of uh security
guards at the property at all uh related to or uh with the lack of any security guards cause any
negative impacts specifically related to the provision of medical care not at all it's mainly
for the exterior environment.
Thank you.
But I guess to go back to Tanetta's issue,
so they hired security because of the problems outside?
There have been security at the property.
I mean, there are issues with, I mean, there are dealers on the corner.
There are individuals all around.
So this security is globally for the property, not limited to this use.
Okay, thank you.
The following witnesses I'll have will be much shorter and should just speak to the
medical uses that are specifically provided and open up any questions that the board may
have of the medical providers.
But my next witness would be Dr. Jessica Meisner, who is the Assistant Professor of Clinical
medicine and infectious diseases at the university of pennsylvania powerman school of medicine
did we see her hand hi could you please state your name and spell for the court sonographer
sure my name is dr jessica meisner j-e-s-s-i-c-a-m-e-i-s-n-e-r
We are a firm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
Who's she, counsel?
Dr. Meiser, can you just briefly state your credentials for the board?
So I am a board-certified physician in internal medicine and infectious diseases, and I'm
an assistant professor at the University of Pennsylvania.
But my favorite role is being the sauna clinic medical director here at Prevention Point.
And the photo that is up on the screen right now, is that your office or an office at Prevention
Point? Yes, that's the main clinic room that I work in. Okay. And can you please just explain
for the board the services that you provide and the types of patients that you see? Sure. So we
offer full HIV primary care, regardless of the patient's background or type of insurance. And so
that means I manage both HIV, but also any other medical problems they have, just like anyone's
primary care doctor would. So that includes hypertension, depression, diabetes. We do
preventive care. So I do vaccinations. I even do pap smears, STI screenings, but the clinic is very
low barrier, which means patients can come in and see me or one of my colleagues. If they have an
issue, they don't have to call and make an appointment two weeks out. But because of that,
we're able to engage and retain patients in our care that wouldn't happen at any other location.
wouldn't happen at any other location. An example of that is we have a long acting HIV
An example of that is we have a long-acting.
injection medicine program, which has grown to over 30 patients, and they get an injection to
control their HIV. And we've had zero missed doses, zero patients lost to care and 100%
viral suppression in two and a half years, which is something my clinic at Penn honestly couldn't
even say. And it's because you're comfortable seeing me here and have that we can able to get
that. And, you know, part of the importance of HIV medicine is a suppressed viral load means
the patient's health, but also that they're not able to transmit it to other individuals,
which is directly helping the community at large as well.
Thank you. And can you just speak to what you believe the effect would be if the
use were decreased from multiple medical providers to only allowing one medical provider at the
property? A lot of my patients would have a huge impact on their health. They don't feel
comfortable going to other clinics, and so it would either delay when they can come in and see
me or have them fall out of care, which would impact both their HIV and also their other medical
problems. And do you have anything else to add or anything else you'd like to advise the board
about the services or work that is done at prevention point? You know, I think because
this clinic is low barrier and exactly where we are, I'm pulling people into care that would not
get pulled in elsewhere. But we're pulling them in for HIV care and for everything. And it's,
it's truly saving lives. And if that's disrupted, I really do worry that some of my patients would
pass away. Thank you. I have no further questions for Dr. Meisner.
Any questions? Why don't we move on to your next question?
Thank you. I'd like to call Dr. Monica Van Zandt.
They've been allowed to speak.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Sure, it's Dr. Monica Van Zandt, and it's M-O-N-I-K-A, Van Zandt, V-A-N-S-A-N-T.
or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth is nothing but the truth
yes please proceed counsel uh dr visit can you just please uh advise the board of your
professional background yes i am board certified in family medicine and addiction medicine
and i'm assistant professor at the temple medical school lewis katz school of medicine
And do you provide medical services at 2913 Kensington Ave?
And you do so on behalf of Prevention Point Philadelphia?
I do, and I specialize in linkage to care as well as the primary care and substance use.
Can you just briefly describe your work and the services you provide and the patients you see at the property?
Certainly. So I treat patients 18 years and older, adults only.
If we should encounter anyone under that age, I refer them to CHOP or UPenn's Adolescent Medicine.
We do not do obstetrical care there, but if I encounter persons that would be pregnant,
we do engage them and then link them to hospital care, obstetrical care.
In my role as the specialist for linkage to care, we get patients into the detox and rehabs, low barrier access.
So they will often call their counselors, caseworkers in the evenings or weekends.
They will then refer to me.
We will link them on the weekends and evenings whenever that patient might become ready for care or treatment.
They can go up to two hours away outside the city for treatment if they should choose.
So that's where I specialize in that linkage to care.
um speaking to the community at large there are community members in the neighborhood that i
personally treated at prevention point for medical care after their hospitalization because they
didn't have insurance and could not afford medications that were life-saving for blood
clots they did not have substance use disorder they were not there for hiv or hepatitis c there
were community members that needed a bridge to care until their insurance was activated and it
could take 30 to 60 days for that. As far as public health, last year we treated, and it was
an outbreak of infectious disease, diarrhea shigella, where once we got the information
from the hospitals what antibiotics worked, we were able to treat patients without sending them
to emergency rooms. We were able to start treatment quicker, you know, kind of dissipating the outbreak.
um when patients need skin grafting for these wounds so partnering with and being on staff at
temple temple one of their requirements for skin grafting and healing of these wounds is the
Temple, one of their requirements for skin grafting and healing of these wounds, the requirement is that patients be outpatient for six weeks before they can skin graft them.
requirement is
So it would break the barriers for the skin grafting and the healing of the wounds.
Part of prevention point is that base that we can affirm that the patients are getting, you know, MOUD or substance use treatment, that they can then follow up for these appointments to get this medical care.
So these caseworkers also make sure that they are compliant, get the medical care that they need. We also will supervise medication adherence. So that again is a public health issue as well. And I think that kind of summarizes some of the care.
Yeah. And the last question I have is the same I asked for Dr. Meissner. Can you just speak to what the impact would be of reducing the medical services at the property from group medical care to only allowing a solo practitioner and one physician at the property?
So it would really be devastating to the population and the community. And the reason
why I say the community there, because if you lose the patients to treatment, the risk of HIV
hepatitis C increases. The transmission, viral loads, which makes it, there's more of an impact
to the community because these patients are still there, but not receiving the care that they need.
So we're not suppressing the viruses. We're not reducing the transmission, you know, and again, these are contagious diseases, infectious diseases that, you know, affects the community at large.
There would be people that would not be with us.
They, again, we, they do resuscitative efforts there.
These patients would be dying on their doorsteps, quite honestly.
I have no further questions for Dr. Van Sant.
Questions?
I just have a question. What's the patient load?
uh it varies again because it's a low barrier and and really the clients will come um at the time
so i may see eight people in four hours i may see 10 people in four hours i could see two or three
in four hours um for the entire facility which is what's the patient load on a daily basis
so you mean just for the medical care just in general for the facility
That I don't know.
I'd have to ask Sylvana for that because you're talking about case management.
You're talking about drop-in services for housing, for insurance.
And again, it is the community as well as, you know, patients that are unhoused.
Right.
Right.
Dr. Van Sant, do people walk in just, you haven't seen them before they come in to see you?
I'm sorry, I didn't understand the question.
But what I'm saying is for people that are coming in, do they have appointments or they just walk in off the street?
So sometimes we schedule appointments. Sometimes they walk in off the street.
We try to accommodate everyone. So, as you know, even in a regular medical office, right, you could have patients scheduled.
You'll have a couple of no shows or they may show up late. So we really accommodate.
If only doctor's offices were so accommodating.
So I guess my other question is, it's very close to Episcopal Hospital.
Do the same type people walk in the Episcopal Hospital emergency room?
So yes and no.
And allow me to elaborate on that.
So we work very closely with Temple and Episcopal.
I'm on staff there.
So if a patient walks into Episcopal, that patient is either dead or dying because most of our clients will not go to the emergency room for treatment because of stigma, because of, you know, treatment.
Right.
So they'll get sicker when they get into Episcopal and they know they're going to have to wait four, six, eight hours for treatment.
because they're not high on the scale.
They didn't come in with a heart attack.
They didn't come in with a stroke.
You know, they're walking in.
So they're on the lower scale.
So if they're there, that's because they're dead or dying.
But if they get there, or if I'm referring them there,
we will bridge that warm handoff.
If I send them to the emergency room, it's because they're sick.
Or if Episcopal gets them, they might say to us,
we have someone who wants to come for treatment.
They'll call me and send them out to us.
And what hours do you have there?
What are the hours of the clinic?
So I believe Sylvana said it's 8.30 to 4.30, except Fridays, they close at 4.
So anytime after that, people wind up going to Episcopal.
Where do they go when they have problems when you're closed?
And Mr. Chairman, I would just like to call Sylvana Mazzella.
I think she's better equipped to answer the after hours.
Oh, sure.
And she has told me that she's prepared to answer some of these questions.
And I also do want to note, she did clarify board member Graham's answer,
and I believe Dr. Van Zandt did as well, that they do not see any patients under the age of 18,
no children. Okay, I heard that. Yep, I heard that. Okay, fine. But if we could just call
Thank you, Dr. Van Zandt. You're welcome.
Silvana, please raise your hand.
Okay. Savannah, please raise your virtual hand once more.
Okay. They've been allowed to speak.
Hello. Thank you. All of the clinics vary. The wound care visits last year, we did 829.
We did over 600 PrEP visits that included medical care and navigation. And I want to add that not
a single person seroconverted to becoming HIV positive. The HIV primary care, 1,334 visits,
and HIV tests, 1,450. For the medication for opioid use disorder, we had 2,426 throughout
the year. And, you know, we are unfortunately not open in the evening. As Dr. Van Zandt stated,
She is one of our key providers to do linkages for inpatient substance use treatment at two different facilities.
We do have a, you know, some of the community engagement team after hours does do linkages to inpatient care.
And we have bridge relationships with really all of the hospitals.
Dr. Meisner, who spoke, has done admissions after hours and we have providers at really every major hospital that can do a note in the electronic medical record, letting them know that a patient is headed to that hospital.
But unfortunately, when we are closed at night or the weekends, yes, people are going other places for care.
I also, you know, having the primary care that we have in sauna and having the other services, as Dr. Van Zandt stated, you would not want to go to an ER for all of these services as a patient if you didn't have the same type of critical injury or concern.
And for a medical institution like a hospital, that is also a burden to have everyone come to an ER rather than other facilities in the hospital.
Yeah, I understand. Yep. So I asked a question before. You're hiring of the security specialist. Was that for problems outside?
No. You know, many of the clinics highlighted on those maps that the architect Janice Woodcock showed that security. We had security for many years. This is a neighborhood that has a lot of things going on around the building and in the general area.
there you know enhanced police patrols all over the area I've had security for years we did we
do feel that it is very important to have an additional measure of security like the other
clinics and social services in the area and you have do they stand outside too they stand outside
they walk up to people and ask them to move on or into the building as do the staff that we have
de-escalating and talking to people. So we are- So I guess the question is, is that a problem
outside for you? We would prefer to have additional security, and we are planning on hiring a second
person to support this person and the crisis de-escalation team. But it is important to,
as you saw with the architectural analysis, we are trying to actively get people into the building
or to move on from the block.
But, Counsel, you had mentioned before
about drug dealers on the corner.
Didn't you say that?
I mean, there's, you know, we're in...
Is that a problem right outside the building?
It is not right outside the building,
but in the area, it is a challenge.
Okay. Thank you.
And, Silvana, are these challenges unique,
as Janice's report indicated,
Are these challenges unique to the block and area around Prevention Point, or is this something that's seen throughout Kensington?
This is seen throughout Kensington. And as you know, additional officers have been deployed throughout Kensington.
I have no further questions.
I have an additional question. So since you guys have been operating, has there been any, like, what are the number of actual police reports you guys had to file?
So incident reports with the police.
Can you hear me?
Yes, I can hear you.
So, um, police reports, uh, critical incidents are, are not common. Um, when there are incidents
of what was just discussed in the general area, we may close. Um, and, and, you know,
that is noted by police. We do call 911 for, um, medical emergency.
We do call 911 for medical emergencies, and we help facilitate transport to medical emergencies.
We partner with AR2, EMS, and PPD, but the staff are very skilled at crisis de-escalation, as is this security specialist in the previous team.
and and i i guess one more question i mean when you went through your stats about how many
patients you've seen in a year close to 10 000 uh definitely not those are medical visits that
are unique to different clinics well that's what i'm saying but i mean but at least 10 000 in and
5,000 to 6,000 visits throughout the year.
Just out of curiosity, is the building up to par to handle that?
It is.
We have adequate rooms.
The landlord has done work to create a space for each patient visit for medical care that
is certainly adequate and up to code.
Thank you.
And while we're here, you know, if I can just briefly even walk through these floor plans
just so, you know, we have a bit of an idea. This is the main entry where I'm dragging my cursor,
right? And then we have the reception area that I showed the photo of for intake. This is a drop-in
center and mail room. And then these are, you know, behind this door, these are the exam rooms
that we were speaking of. There's also a second floor with additional offices and rooms. I mean,
You know, those being utilized often or, you know, are they are they full?
It seems, you know, that there are more clearly more rooms than you have providers.
So you just speak to the capacity, as the chairman mentioned.
Yes. So we actually one of the modifications was flipping rooms.
We didn't do construction, but the what is now medical reception was once the drop in center.
However, this expanded space ensures that people have adequate space to check in and wait for a visit. They can get pulled in by the case manager, get seen in advance, go to do phlebotomy, et cetera. But yes, there is adequate space for what is being operated.
Thank you.
And this is the building where you had the single doctor initially?
Correct.
So this large building you put one doctor was in there?
Well, again, that is just one of the services provided at the property.
Right. And then later it was the administrative came in with sort of your headquarters, right?
Yeah. And these are all the services offered.
Michael, you have your next witness?
Yeah, they're called James Sherman.
James Sherman.
The virtual audience, please raise your hand.
I don't see them, but I see four other people.
One is Roxy Rivera.
The second is Callie Lamb.
Call Callie Lamb.
She was my next witness.
They've been about to speak.
And Ms. Lamb.
Could you please state your name and spell it for the court stenographer?
Yes, Callie Lamb, and it's K-A-L-I-L-A-M-B.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Mr. Phillips.
Ms. Lamb, I'll be brief.
I just want to know, what is your relationship with prevention point in this property in general?
And OK, let me back up a bit. I am 37 years old.
When I was 16, I started using injectable drugs and I struggled with it for a long portion of my life.
So in 2019, I was diagnosed with hepatitis C and Prevention Point was where I went and got my diagnosis.
At that time, I was not unhoused and I began using their medical services.
I did become unhoused in 2020 and I continued to use their services for treatment for hepatitis C.
I also was put on medication for opioid use disorder. I have since then gotten sober. I just
I have since then gotten sober. I just bought my first house. I just celebrated a year of continuous sobriety, and they're still in my life.
My roommate, who has also been sober for a little over two years, still uses Prevention Point services because I connected him with their medical services, again, not while he was unhoused, but well after he had gotten sober.
And what was it about Prevention Point and the property that caused you to go there as opposed to going to another location to receive medical services?
It's hard to explain what it's like to be living in active addiction and be unhoused.
I usually describe it like my world today is so big, right?
I have a job. I take care of my dogs. I go grocery shopping. I have all these things.
And when I was living in active addiction, my world was so small.
And, you know, I'm not talking about physically, right?
I didn't have the capacity for a lot of things.
And I didn't care enough about my health or my well-being or even my being alive to go and seek out medical care and to make doctor's appointments.
I didn't have a home.
I didn't have a phone.
I needed somewhere that I could walk up, not feel ashamed of the fact that I had lice, that I hadn't bathed, that I maybe can't keep my appointments, but I'm never going to get, you know, shamed for that.
I could walk in, receive love and compassion at any time and receive medical care.
um and if it weren't for the medical care being provided at uh uh 2913 kensington uh do you think
you would have gotten the medical care you need and would you be where you are today
absolutely not um i actually work now as a paralegal with a non-profit civil law firm
and Philadelphia. I work with low-income individuals today and have everything I have
because of the people at Prevention Point and because that it is so low barrier, right? And
what I mean by that, I'd like to give an example. A friend of mine that I was on the streets with
who also actually just celebrated a year of continuous sobriety, he calls me once right
after I got sober and tells me he can't breathe. And so we go to the hospital. I go with him.
He finds out he has a collapsed lung. He also has an infection throughout his body.
And he told the medical provider that he wanted to stay and enter treatment from there.
And a couple hours later, the doctor comes back to us and she hands me a study
of about 12 individuals, I think were in this study, of how a collapsed lung can heal itself
and that he didn't need to be admitted and they were going to let him go.
And I've never heard of that. So yes, we can get medical care, but I think there's a lack
of understanding. It is the bare minimum often. And when we ask for help, we don't always get
the help that we need, that we want. I am sober because I had a medical provider connect me with
the services i need and we can't get those we're judged people don't want to smell us they don't
want to look at us um we already don't like who we are we don't like being alive it's not an easy
life it's not a happy life so to have a single place you can go and feel compassion and love
and worthy and valued and like you need other people to want you to stay alive because when
you're in that it's hard to want that for yourself and prevention point is the only place I know of
that I felt like that and like I said I'm sober today I have a relationship with my dad I have
a retirement account I have a savings account I just bought a home I have three dogs and I have
a year of sobriety and I have all of that because people loved me when I couldn't love myself and
told me it was okay if I couldn't be consistent if I made mistakes if you know I couldn't be the
best patient it's so necessary and I understand people have a lot of strong opinions on this
but for me I'm alive because of that I can't count how many times I've overdosed and my friends
had the supplies they needed to keep me alive because they went to prevention point
it kept me a continuum of care when I would get incarcerated I'm a felon I would get incarcerated
and because prevention point made sure I had my medications when I was released I didn't die
There are so many important things for people that are living on the streets and I know
There are so many important things for people that are living on the streets.
And I know that we like to think, yes, the community in Kensington are the residents as well,
but the people that are also living on the streets in Kensington are part of the community.
And I think that every human deserves health care and to feel that, you know, from health care providers.
Thank you.
I have no additional questions.
The board does, and then I have one final witness.
This is going to be your last witness.
All right.
Please.
Thank you.
We started with your, remember your 20 minute case.
Yeah, I know.
And I should have written those words when they, when they came out.
I, you know, my wife always gives me a hard time for my time estimation.
So I apologize.
James Sherman is my last.
What's your next witness?
James Sherman is our last witness.
Mr. Sherman.
They've been allowed to speak, sir.
This is James Sherman.
hi could you spell your last name please for the court stenographer yep i sure can j-a-m-e-s-s-h-e-r-m-a-n
james sherman right you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the
truth i sure do uh please proceed counsel mr sherman can you please uh explain for the board
your relationship is with prevention point and uh this property at 2913 kensington
Absolutely. So I identify as a person in long-term recovery. I was homeless in the
Kensington area for over almost two years, and eventually I found sobriety, became a certified
recovery specialist, and I worked at Prevention Point for about seven and a half months.
Did you receive medical services at Prevention Point while you were unhoused?
I did. When our when our supply was really changing to different things, you know, due to my IV drug use, I started developing some really bad abscesses and wounds.
You know, being homeless to that extent, I had no insurance. I didn't know where to turn.
I was approached by a prevention point outreach worker who walked me back to prevention point to receive wound care and antibiotics.
And I don't think that I would have my arm if I didn't address it with prevention points held during the lowest time of my life.
And can you just briefly describe for the board what your sobriety journey and how, you know, how your life has changed over the past year in relation to the services you provided at you were provided at 2913 Kensington?
Yeah, absolutely. Prevention point, you know, I learned a lot of this during my time there, too, is that, you know, it's a vital part of that community. Many of my friends who are, you know, staying on their recovery journey go there for their medication.
A lot of people that I, you know, I serve on the streets in the community that, you know, need these services go there.
I've watched members of the community come and use that, use their services.
I just think we're in a vital point of a public health crisis.
And I just can't fathom what, you know, the community of people would look like without the services of Prevention Point.
I don't think that I would have ever found sobriety if it wasn't for people at Prevention Point loving me at my lowest.
um, you know, advocating and recovering out loud and telling me that I could do it.
And why prevention point? Why not? Why did you not seek services elsewhere?
Uh, many reasons. Um, you know, it was there. Um, it was trusted. Um, the consistency served
a really good point in my life of like, uh, constantly feeding me constantly giving me,
you know, a cup of coffee on a 12 degree day, you know, putting clothes on my back when I didn't
have anything, really just opening that space of me feeling comfortable. So when I was approached
by that outreach worker that day who had consistently came and checked on me and gave
me services and offered me services, it left the door open for more when I was in vital need of
some serious wound care and antibiotics. And how would you say, how would you rate the access to
basic necessities of health care in the immediate vicinity of the property?
Outside of prevention point, you're saying? Outside of prevention point. Absolutely. I mean,
I think that's how I ended up there. You know, there really isn't any other means for, you know,
individuals that are living how I was. I was on house, no insurance, no ID, no cell phone,
no mailing address. And they were still willing to see me and give me care. And I think that was
really my only option outside of an emergency room, which I had tried that route and I wasn't
treated as compassionately. Thank you. I have no further questions for Mr. Sherman.
Thank you. I have no further questions for Mr. Sherman.
Questions from the board?
Questions from the board?
Okay. So, Mr. Phillips, this is what we're going to do.
That's the majority of your case.
When we have a resumptive hearing, we're going to open it up to the public,
to the virtual audience, to get comments on whether it's for whatever side it's on.
Absolutely.
All right. Thank you very much.
For everybody else, we're going to take a five-minute break,
and then we're going to come back and we'll take care of the 3.30 list.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Okay, Chair.
And we have 50 attendees, Chair.
50 attendees?
Thank you, Chair, as you wish.
Say that one more time.
We have 50 people in the audience?
Mr. Chair, it appears that there may be some people here
that we're still from the prior case
on the 2 o'clock list on Kensington Avenue.
If you are here for that case,
we will be scheduling a resumption hearing.
If you register today,
you will get notice of that resumption hearing
and we'll be able to testify at that time.
Thank you for coming, by the way.
Good afternoon, everyone.
My name is Bill Bergman
and I will be handling a chairing the 330 list.
With me is our Vice Chair, Ismael Shahid.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
There's non-opposition from the Bella Vista Neighbors Association.
Coming back as a panelist now.
Takes a while for me to join, Mr. Chairman.
Good afternoon.
Afternoon, Mr. DeMarco.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer?
Good afternoon.
and Richard DeMarco. Last name is spelled D-E-M-A-R-C-O.
Are you referring to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Do you identify your client and relationship to the property?
The client is St. Paul's Church, and my client is Father Paul Galetto, who is the authorized
priest at the church.
Our vice chair has a few questions for you.
Good afternoon, counsel. Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal or
stipulate to its accuracy yes have you emailed in all the required documents and exhibits that's
needed to proceed with this case five days in advance uh i emailed all the documents i was
was a day late on the on the exhibits i was out on friday i'd asked for some leeway there's no
opposition from the neighbors in this case and all the everything was posted and uh this is a
continued matter and the the oscio process was already wrapped up before the actually the prior
hearing. So my apologies for that. I'd ask the case be heard. No problem. Thank you for your
due diligence, counsel. Please proceed and share your screen. Will do. Yeah, like Mr. Chairman said,
the case was heard by the Bella Vista Town Watch prior to actually the previous hearing.
My client, the church, did not have an attorney, and since it's a religious use, it didn't need
counsel. They retained me in between the hearings to represent them today. I have the refusal on
the screen. It's basically a variance to reface an existing monument sign attached to the church
that's been in existence for decades and make it a digital sign. Let me show you that. So there's
a variance for the area of the sign, but like I said, it's actually the refacing of the existing
sign that's there, and it's becoming digital, but it does not project brightly onto any homes.
There's a school across the street, so there's no homes impacted. The sign actually pre-existed.
This church actually was constructed in the 1800s, as you can see from our deed.
And I'll show you the drawing so you can see it. Actually, the new sign will be slightly smaller
than the existing monument sign. So really, we're refacing an existing sign. Like I said,
we posted for this hearing. That's attached to the exhibits. And let me show you the signs
so you get an idea of what we're talking about. This is a front view of the church.
This is the existing sign here I'm indicating with my cursor. It's pretty large. The digital
sign will be slightly smaller. So here's the digital sign. It's a rendering as best we could
to show you what we're dealing with this sign uh members of the board will have public service
address announcements it will obviously advertise the um the services of the church but there'll be
other you know weather um traffic updates so forth father father galetto could give you a little bit
more information but um obviously this was not controversial to the neighbors church is a
long-standing member of the community. I would argue that the hardship is really a de minimis
issue because the sign is existing and is really just being modernized and made into something
that's a little bit more service-oriented. And let me just show you. Here's a close-up of the
renderings. And like I said, they're refacing the sign, but it'll actually be a little bit smaller.
The Bella Vista Town Watch, almost unanimous vote in favor of the application.
The church actually handled the notices, and the vote was, it's right here, nine were in support, only two opposed, 14, I'm sorry, 14 in support, two opposed.
So with that, Mr. Chairman, I'd ask you to grant this variance.
Where or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth.
Please proceed, counsel.
Father Paul, good afternoon.
Can you, did you hear my presentation of the board today?
I did.
Is it true and accurate to the best of your knowledge?
Yes, it is.
Can you adopt it as officially as your testimony in this case?
And you had told me some interesting things that you were going to be using the sign for.
I don't know if I gave all the uses.
Can you just explain to the board some of the other purposes of the sign as far as public service?
Sure. So, you know, if we had the board up now, we would be running our All Souls Day thing where the those who have died in the past year, we honor those.
We have a slideshow of that. We have a slideshow of our veterans for November 10th.
We honor those who have served or are serving in the military.
We hope to do public notices like this past Saturday. There was a bike ride through the city and there were street closures. It took me an hour and a half to get home from I-95 in Columbus because nobody knew about the street closures.
And we try to provide public service. We talk to the township, I mean, not the township, to the neighborhood community about publicizing when trick-or-treat is, when there are open markets down in the Bella Vista neighborhood. Our goal is to bring the community together and to try to use this board to keep people informed about what's going on at the church as well as in the neighborhood.
And was I correct to say that the sign does not project outward? It's kind of internally illuminated, and there's no homes facing the sign?
You are correct. Yep.
So, Mr. Chairman, with that, I'd ask the board to approve the variances. I believe that the church has that actual signbox has been there for over 100 years. The church is a pillar of the neighborhood. There's no opposition, and they're really just modernizing the existing sign.
questions from the yeah questions from the board
um so what is the difference in the size of the new sign compared to the current sign
uh so i this is the this is the best running i have of the if you go back if you go back here
this sign there you see the 72 inch one currently the sign is 70 inches and that one was rejected
because it was two inches bigger than the space that's there so the new sign will be the 48 inches
so the current 70. okay but the 48 inch sign is still above the minimum or the maximum sign
requirement it's no bigger than what's there it's smaller than what's there now currently
Board Member Wynn, there's an existing signbox there now that is larger than what the new sign will be.
Understood. Because of the actual refusal, which is around the size of the sign, I just wanted to clarify.
The sign that's there now, did it get a previous approval?
So it actually predates the actual zoning code itself.
If you look at our deed, I'll show you.
The church has been in existence since the 1800s, so there would not be any zoning prior to 1933.
That's how old the church is and how old.
The building, not necessarily.
Has the sign been there?
Here's our deed.
Father, has the sign, let me ask Father, has the sign box that's present on the property been in existence for as long as you can remember being involved with the church?
So, you with us, Father?
We lost you.
father uh you with us did you hit mute by accident
see oh he's um he's uh um oh he came back in for just a moment and then signals yeah his signals
yeah hello oh there he is yeah i don't know what happened there uh so our oldest parishioner
is in her 90s
and as far as she's known
she has always known the sign to be there
so that's
there's no historical documentation
about when it was installed but
living witness says that it's been
there as long as anybody that
has been here has known
questions from the board
questions or comments from our attorney
Hillary Emerson
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Yes, Mr. Chair, I have a hand from Andrew A.
Or I did have a hand, but they seem to have put it down now.
Or I did have a hand, but they seem to have put it down now.
I believe we had some parishioners that were in support.
That might be who we have.
Do you see any other hands out there?
Jason?
No, sir.
No further hands.
Planning Commission.
Good evening, Mr. Chair and board members.
My name is Nina Solomonic for the Planning Commission.
Nina, just for the record, could you spell your name for the courts?
sonographer. Yes, my name is Nina N-I-N-A, last name Solomonic, S-O-L-O-M-O-N-I-C.
Where are firm to tell the truth, told truth, nothing but the truth? I do. Please proceed.
This property is indicated for residential use on the city plan. No changes have been recommended
to the existing zoning at this location. The appellant's hardship is not supported with
evidence of unique physical circumstances or conditions that would prevent it from being
used in conformance with the signage requirements of the code. Both the size and digital display
are prohibited in this area. Therefore, we recommend that the requested variances not
be granted. Thank you. MI 2024-002-285-923 Christian Street, I vote yes.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes.
Tana Graham, my vote is yes.
Ed Wynn, my vote is yes.
Esmail Shaheed, my vote is yes.
Thank you, counsel.
Thank you. Have a good afternoon and good evening.
Thank you.
Is there anyone in the virtual audience whose case has not been called?
I do not see any further hands, Mr. Chair.
Thanks, everyone.
You know, you know, one of the things we tried to do today was we we didn't want to start the public comments and have to cut it.
So if you there was like 50 people in the audience.
So what we'll do is we'll we'll take a day and just do is just public comment and we'll see where we stand in that case.
But thanks, everybody. I think we had a good, pretty good day here.
Yeah. Thank you all so much. See you all next week.
Yes. Have a good night. Have a good night.
Have a good night all
Good night folks
Be careful