Hold on one second. Councilman Goode had a point of information.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. 67 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. Even within the bill we're considering today, which proposes authorizing us to make a change that would put us in a future position of possibly making a change, we have to follow the old process to make that change, and that's essentially what the Solicitor is saying. I mean, if you read the bill on , it talks about authorizing us to make a change, but when you turn to , it outlines in Section 4 of the bill essentially that the process that exists now still has to be followed.
So even though we want flexibility, we don't have flexibility in even passing this bill.
That's correct, but we then have the flexibility by ordinance. We don't have to go back to the voters.
But the 68 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. circular argument is actually contained within here in terms of even though we want more flexibility, the flexibility is not contained within this bill, because it can't be.
But if we advertise now, Councilman, with all due respect, if we advertise now and ask the Charter question that includes this "in the event," then we don't ever have to go back to the voters when they don't exist.
The legislative intent is flexibility. That's the legislative intent of the bill.
I completely agree, and I'm just trying to prescribe that flexibility to --
I'm trying to narrow the flexibility to the event that we have less than three daily paid.
Narrowing 69 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. the possibility in itself is circular.
If I may interject here, maybe this discussion should happen at the meeting. Do you still have questions, Councilman Green, of the Solicitor?
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Ortman, if we were to advertise in one daily newspaper with a paid circulation, how much could we save? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: If we advertise in just one newspaper, which is what we do, on the second page of the -- of my testimony -- you're talking about for Procurement alone?
Yes. COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Well, the figures on the second page indicate 70 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. anywhere from low of $94,000 a year up to $112,000 a year.
That's based on what? COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: That's just Procurement, because we're required to advertise in one newspaper two consecutive weeks.
Okay. COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: There are different requirements under -- like Records has to advertise, I think it's, three newspapers of the highest paid circulation.
Suppose we substituted, for instance, the Metro as a newspaper. COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Just advertise on the net?
The Metro. COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Oh, the Metro. I don't know what Metro advertising costs, sir, to be quite honest with you. 71 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc.
I guess in fairness, Councilman Kelly, obviously this would have to come up down the road --
Yes, this would have to come up down the road -- COMMISSIONER ORTMAN: Two people talking at once is going to kill me. I'm sorry.
No. This is just giving us an opportunity to in case something like this, almost like an insurance program that --
But at least it's giving us the opportunity to do it, and I have no problem with that. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 72 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I know what my intent is. I can only speak for myself. And I've heard concerns raised by witnesses with respect to the aftermath, assuming that this bill passed. And I don't assume anything, because it is a Charter referendum and people have the ability to go against Charter referendums in the press. What I'd like to do to hopefully allay some fears and concerns about what we would subsequently do in any legislation is that I would like to offer at this time to the Committee requiring the highest threshold of passage of any subsequent legislation be the super majority, so that it would be similar to a Charter change or any such other initiative. So I would be prepared 73 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. to insert a two-thirds requirement of vote of subsequent legislation. So as you know, traditionally when you get two-thirds, that means everybody is on board. So I'm prepared to do that, because I know what my intent is. My intent is to do something to make sure that we can continue to conduct business. So I'd be prepared to do that.
I appreciate that, Councilman. And so just, again, just for clearness as possible, what you're saying is if the Charter change is approved, if we ever have to come back and make any changes, it would have to be done by a super majority, by 12 votes.
When we 74 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. go in the public meeting. That's when all the amendments -- because it seems like the amendments keep growing here.
I've lost track, and Councilman Green wrote all over mine, so I don't know where I am. Any other questions or comments for the witnesses? (No response.)
Thank you again, both. If you could still stay here. We're not letting you go yet. One more time: Is there anybody else that wishes to testify on this bill or resolution? (No response.)
Seeing none, the hearing of the Law and Government Committee will be recessed. We will now go into -- we're going to go into our public meeting, but I know there are some amendments here, so before we proceed, let's take a few-minute break so 75 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. we can figure all this out. Thanks. Thank you. (Short recess.)
Can I have everybody's -- hold on one more minute, please. (Pause.)
I'd like to get the public meeting started, please. This is the public meeting of the Committee on Law and Government. We're going to have some amendments to both the resolution and the bill. I'd like Councilman Clarke, the sponsor, to briefly explain the purpose of the amendments. Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to thank the members of the Committee for doing their due diligence on what we believe is hopefully unnecessary but a very important issue. 76 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. Based on the testimony today, what we've done, since there was consensus on including the Administration's request to have the Procurement Department and Records included in this provision, we have consolidated the amendments. So those amendments will be both in the resolution 10 and the amendment on the two-thirds will be in the ordinance. As a concern raised by a number of the witnesses about the possibility as it relates to the aftermath of the authorization, we have requested that the threshold be raised to super majority in order to pass any subsequent legislation. That's reflected both in the resolution 19 and the ordinance. If this bill passes first the Committee, then the Council, then signed by the Mayor, it will be a ballot initiative. The voters have to vote on this. That still will not change the current situation. The City will still 77 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. be required to advertise in three newspapers. The only change can happen by a subsequent ordinance by Council and then signed by the Mayor, and that subsequent ordinance must have a two-thirds super majority passage by City Council of Philadelphia. So I'd like to offer to the Committee -- and I know it has to be offered officially by a Committee member -- the ordinance and the resolution, the amendments, that also reflect the two-thirds majority requirement in both the ordinance and the amendment.
Okay. Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney regarding amendments for Bill No. 21 090171.
Prior to offering the amendments for both the bill 24 and the resolution, I'd just like to state for the record that I think the 78 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. testimony or the statements from Councilman Clarke on legislative intent are very clear in this record. In the event that something out of character would happen down the road, I would suspect that the full-blown discussion of the legislative intent of this bill and resolution would be clear protection for any publication that was getting -- situation otherwise than was explained in the hearing. So in the unlikely event that this becomes any way litigious, the legislative intent and the record of this Council hearing is very clear. So prior to offering the amendments, I wanted to say that prior to offering the amendments to Bill No. 090171.
It's been moved and seconded that Bill No. 090171 be amended per the amendments that were circulated. 79 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. All in favor please say aye. (Aye.)
The amendments pass. The Chair now recognizes Councilman Kenney regarding Bill No. 10 090171 as amended.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Bill No. 13 090171, as amended, be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation and a request made for rules suspension to allow first reading at our next Council session. (Duly seconded.)
It's been moved and seconded. All in favor please say aye. (Aye.)
The 80 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. motion carries and Bill No. 090171, as amended, has been reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation, rules of Council be suspended to allow for first reading at our next session of Council. The Chair now recognizes Councilman Kenney regarding Resolution 10 No. 090179, amendments to same.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the amendments be accepted to Resolution No. 090179. (Duly seconded.)
It's been moved and seconded that Resolution 090179 be amended per the amendments that were circulated. All in favor please say aye. (Aye.)
The motion carries and Resolution 090179 is amended. 81 3/16/09 - LAW & GOV'T - BILL 090171, etc. The Chair again recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that Resolution 6 090179, as amended, be reported favorably out of this Committee. (Duly seconded.)
It's been moved and seconded. All in favor please say aye. (Aye.)
Hearing none, Resolution 090179, as amended, has been reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation. Thank you to the Committee. Thank you to all witnesses, and this meeting stands in recess. Thank you very much. (Committee on Law and Government concluded at 11:35 a.m.) - - - 82 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on March 16, 2009, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)