so there's a greater busselton civic voted 25 to 21 in support
good afternoon morning council could you state your name please and spell for the
court stenographer? Yes, Justin Crick, J-U-S-T-I-N, last name K-R-I-K.
Do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I do. Could you identify your client, the relationship to this property?
Yes, my client is S&A, I'm sorry, T&B Investments, LLC, and the principal,
Igor Babovich is on this call.
All right.
And Mr. Holloman has a few questions for you, sir.
Good afternoon, counsel.
Do you agree to waive the reading of the refusal and stipulate to its accuracy?
I do believe it's accurate, but I would like to point out that my application did specify
that there is a legalization here, even though it's not reflected, but it was applied for
as a legalization.
Otherwise, we believe it's accurate.
Okay. Did you email all of the exhibits and documents as required five days in advance to this hearing?
Thank you. Please proceed and share your screen.
Thank you very much.
All right. Members of the board, thank you.
We are here today regarding the property at 248 Geiger Road.
The property is located in an industrial I-2 district and is currently used for office and business use with some personal services tenants in the building.
The application for these business uses is for the legalization of the personal service use, wherefore in the I-2 zoning district, the business professional office use is allowable, as well as there is one wholesale distribution tenant, which I will discuss all of the tenancies in the building shortly, that is also an approved use in this district already.
So we are here seeking primarily or only the proposed use for personal services being prohibited in this district.
By way of a little background, again, the refusal you can see here for the industrial uses that it's just personal services.
By way of geographical background, this property on Geiger Road is located in an industrial park off of Red Lion Road in northeast Philadelphia.
The property is narrow at the street as well as somewhat in the back, but more notably
currently what is situated on it is a single circular building.
Very different from what you see next door, which is more warehouse and industrial space.
And this building lends itself more to the office use or the smaller tenant slash non-industrial
uses as I should say.
notably next door this is a daycare that is approved in this industrial corridor as well
uh and while we are going to talk about it a little bit later this picture really does uh
demonstrate very well the parking that is around this building we have 25 spaces that is not
including what we believe to be and is usually quite open street parking in this industrial corridor
the property is set back very far and I have another several pictures that zoom in on it
there is no signage on this application and one of the things I want to touch on that is a concern
of the neighborhood that will of course be taken into account is that while the neighborhood did
support this or does support this they do want to make sure that all tenants possess
They do want to make sure that all tenants possess the required permits and so forth, and that everything dealing with any of the businesses in this building are appropriately permitted and addressed by L&I.
the required permits and so forth
And we agree with that. And if this variance is granted, allowing personal services as a use, then these businesses would be able to go and register and become legalized and then also seek the appropriate approvals for everything else that L&I regulates.
But we believe that that would then be an enforcement issue after the fact, even though it is the intention to make compliance.
So, again, we're asking for the approval for the personal services to allow the personal services as described here to register and become legalized.
As a little bit of background, just to get into it, actually, before I show you some of this, my client purchased this property in 2018.
And at that time, it was leased to office and business uses.
He did not have any personal services uses in there at that time.
And what had happened was when COVID hit and everybody scurried from the office space,
the nature of this building that you'll see how it's configured inside that lends itself
to smaller, almost remote offices for people are no longer desirable as remote offices
because either someone is getting something larger or they're just staying home in a home office most of the time.
So there are a few offices, as I'll go through, but what has become attractive or attracted to this space
happens to be a lot of entrepreneurs looking to start businesses in personal services.
And these are namely nail, hair, and massage.
But in terms of these things, we are not talking about hair cutting.
These are those types of places where they just do your hair up.
So there is no barbering or that type of need for things occurring.
And then as far as massage, it is also, again, not that I should even have to say, but there's
no adult-oriented uses.
And we also have that there is no, with the businesses, there's no medical, dental, or
health practitioners.
We do have, as you'll see on this list, there are two dental labs. These labs just manufacture, or in the sense that the technicians are just making molds and other products for dental use. But again, as you can see, we have mostly nails and cosmetics, people getting makeup done, and the pictures are very clear, as you'll see shortly.
We do have a couple of businesses in here, including an insurance broker who has been in the property for over 25 years.
And while that use is allowed, it just goes to show that this building has been in operation really as a business hub for some time.
So it was a little difficult, I will say, to get the exact dimensions of the interior because of the shape of the building.
but um just to give you an idea of layout um while there are entrances in the front and and you'll
see that the building is stacked from a basement first second third floor i'm sorry uh basic three
floors one that walks out the ground and is partially underground the other that is the
front above ground and then a third floor they center around a a very common open atrium space
in the middle that goes uh from ground to roof and there's a perimeter of offices um and this
is as rudimentary as it is it's good at showing that there are small offices throughout the
building and a couple of larger demised premises uh there is a roof deck that is absolutely off
limits to everybody that is just there even though it's it's allowed but it's it's just
for safety purposes just so you know and if you see from the exterior pictures it's it's not in use
again so this is the front entrance from the parking lot and I will try to make it through
some of these quickly so but if there's any questions about a a specific thing please let
me know again parking along the side you can see out the back there's a there's ground floor egress
first floor egress from the back as well as from the front that you had seen previously
here's that roof deck that is not accessible by any of the occupants of the building.
So again, just some other exterior views. And some of the offices are literally just
one window sort of space wide, while others are three to four or so. But none of the spaces in
this building exceed 700 square feet approximately. So in doing any parking calculations,
which i'll go into later uh where the ratios are basically one for every thousand square feet
uh the generally the most required space for any one business
Generally, the most required space for any one business use would be one space.
In that regard, personal services, when allowed in the industrial district, don't require a parking space for the first 2,500 square feet, in which case none of these would qualify for requiring parking in that sense.
But we do also have commercial trash pickup on the property.
and now as we enter the property i'll try to again describe it as best as possible but
we are first going to be going left and around the first floor as you had previously seen so
this corresponds with the corridor that has several offices aligned within it and along it
there are some common area spaces throughout the building that are open for communal lunch or
gathering that by people who are working in the building but these are not any one rented space
some people didn't you know want to be in pictures or so forth but this is typical
of one of the office use spaces and some others
some have storage in them still and are not being used but similar intended use
so we do have currently uh approximately 22 spaces and approximately 19 have some people in
them this is one of the uh businesses the one of the entrepreneurs who has started her own little
business here and wants to continue to do so um but again there's no cutting it's just uh just
kind of the makeup and the cosmetic portion of things this is a transportation business
um i guess in an effort to keep the person out another and very similar cosmetic uh establishment
as you'll see so again this this is more of a station it's not it's not uh for cutting it's
for the styling and people like to take photos of themselves as they're getting done up
um this is one of the more elaborate locations uh in the building but again they're they're
limiting to just hair blowing hair drying type of situations some outdoor
space and I'll just keep moving to some more of the substantive places there
are common restrooms throughout the building on each floor available I don't
believe there are any on the third floor but the third floor is significantly
smaller in square footage as you can see this is from ground floor basement or so
partial underground, all the way up to the top. And the building is very open and again lends
itself for multiple businesses. This is one of the medical dental offices, and this is probably
the largest next to the business insurance broker. But again, this is a dental lab. There's some
teeth molds here and so forth. So there are also some interesting other, again, personal services
is in the building. And we are not, again, this application is not to approve of any one specific
personal service. We intend as landlords counsel, and I've been retained to do so, is to make sure
that all of the occupants do properly go and register and get the appropriate permits to
conduct their business within the building. But again, in order for them to even do so,
they would require that personal services be allowed in the building. So this is the wholesale
clothing and I have some pictures of inside of it later you'll see they just
hold large amounts of clothing that's shipped back and forth and stored the
insurance broker is this way and I'll be heading into some of those one of the
spas is a little bit more elegant in terms of you know just just sitting down
to relax while you're there it's fresh fruit and then there is also well this
fire egress i will also say that there's a photograph in here that this building does
have its fire certifications and is up to code in all other ways uh and it has no other violations
other than the the use violation again this is a legalization of these uses for that reason
another cosmetic slash massage and and sort of make up a relaxation area
similar type business. There is a salt spa in here that does work with, well, for salt therapy
in general, but also for kids with special needs. Unique to see it in this type of space, but
they managed to make it work. We also note that some people in the neighborhood who were in
opposition were concerned about the cosmetics of the building in some of the areas that looked
rehabbed um but again when l and i had done the the uh inspection that gave the violation there
inspection that gave the violation there were no other violations issued but that also will not
were no other violations issued but that also
negate the landlord's desire to get everything made sure that it's that it's up to code if it's
not this is the insurance agency that's been in the property for several decades it's in the
basement ground floor probably the largest single space in the building this is the clothing kind
of warehouse of racks of clothing just come in and out and are moved around to
from what I'm told different different organizations donate and move it
around the insurance from the hallway and I'll just get you to the third floor
as well come around the building it's a little bit of a labyrinth until you're
in it but up on the third floor is a small common area you can see again
parking lot from here and here's the daycare that's next door there are a
couple of offices along the this side of the building and this day the third
floor is noticeably only half the size but you have this woman again a young
entrepreneur who's just trying to find a space to do her craft this is a common
area on the third floor for people similar to the one on the first floor
another cosmetic location and this this one is the other one on the third floor
doing I guess from what I understand again the hair blowout and styling
procedures so I give this this deed will show you that TMB investment group
purchased the property in December of 2018 as I indicated it was it was
primarily if not all office use back then but the property became quite vacant
in 2020, which further led to the hardship of the need for additional uses that are viable
in the area. I don't believe there's a need to argue for why industrial use isn't necessary.
I think it's since the other uses besides personal services are available and allowed
and the nature of the property and its narrowness and characteristics of the building don't really
lend itself to production or more industrial uses of that nature.
But we do believe that this is a highest and best use situation where there's a demand
for this type of business in the area and place for people to start more of this private
business.
The taxes have been paid, but for 2024 at this time.
and we have posted on the property again there are no signage no signage on this application
and the applicant's well aware that that there's a good potential for additional signage issues
to arise if things aren't addressed promptly if this variance is granted postings were made on
the front door and on all of the other doors in the property as well and notices were sent
to the neighborhood and we conducted a meeting with them. I did get a copy recently, which this
board also should have as a copy of the letter of support. I recognize that there's a close margin
here. And again, it is my opinion that a lot of the parties that were in the opposition did have
frustration, as do many neighbors when a property is being legalized. And the frustration stems from
the idea that people were using a property inappropriately for so much time and are now
asking for forgiveness and so forth so i do recognize that and again um ignorance is not
an answer but i i will say that this applicant uh being faced with what he was faced with and
the vacancies moved along uh and then realized and has sought counsel and we're trying to address
that but again as they indicate they believe that they want to assure down here at the bottom that
all tenants possess the required permits and as to that point alone we would need the variance
granted in order to get these tenants uh properly permitted um and then as for parking spaces as
being a concern we do not believe that any of those ratios have been uh passed or that there
should have been need for any refusal for this if one does come along from from l and i we would
address it at that time but given the ratios allowed in an i2 district for uh office and
business use and then basically no requirement in the in the personal
services category we still would have under the 25 space we we believe we
would be required to have under the 25 spaces that are available with that said
again we welcome further L&I inspection after the fact that compliance is a is
another story we do believe that again this this hardship is is there based
upon the economic conditions of the market in this desired type of business or industry versus
further office use. And we don't believe that this would cause any detriment to the neighboring
We don't believe that this would cause any detriment to the neighboring properties.
properties.
And that it would not create any environmental damage or impact any transportation or other public utilities if allowed to to occur.
Want to bring your client on quick.
Yes, I have Igor if you could unmute yourself and raise your hand to be promoted to panelists.
I will be allowed to speak.
Could you please state your name and spell for the court stenographer.
Last name, Bobovich, B-O-B-O-V-I-C-H.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do.
Please proceed, counsel.
Yes, thank you.
Mr. Bobovich, have you had an opportunity to hear my testimony to this board today?