No, not to my knowledge. You'll probably have ones on probation on the kiosk that are arrested for any number of crimes and it could happen just as they were on someone's caseload, but not that having them on the kiosk has resulted in somebody should have been watching them. So no. 19
Thanks for coming down. Getting away from the snow up there, right? 121 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947
Right. Further up in New York it must be really a bad situation. What is the goal of the kiosk? I get it where someone just comes and checks in, but what does it really accomplish? Just to let you know they're still in the area?
Well, it has two folds. I was listening to the probation officer report on her large caseloads when she had 150 cases. There's not too much you can do with a caseload of 150. Me, I could say experience-wise, I'm not just a techie person, I used to be a probation officer, so I know the experience. I used to have a caseload in New York of 220 cases. So with deploying the kiosk, you have the opportunity now to focus on those higher-risk probationers. I mean, you could take the low risk off your 122 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 caseload and you have the opportunity to really focus on the high-risk ones, where it would also decrease your caseload size. We've gotten our caseloads down in New York City to 65 to one, and currently some of the caseloads are under 65. And with a small caseload like that -- and even 65 is a lot for one person where you still have to do field visits, there's compliance, there's, you know, a whole variety of things that you need to take care of for that probationer to be successful. Even with 65, you can -- you're better able to handle a caseload of 65 rather than 180. So the kiosk allows for the low-level probationers to be moved to the side, report to an instrument or a machine based on certain criteria, based on some type of risk assessment, and they're monitored by a probation officer that has a caseload of 350. These people -- it's an incentive. They're on probation. They must report, but rather 123 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 than report to a person sitting in a waiting room, they could report one day a week. It takes up to five to ten minutes to report to the kiosk and then they're out the door.
So what you're developing is some discipline. Instead of just hanging out, they say, I've got to be at the machine to check in. But really other than just keeping track of people, that five-minute process when they check in -- what takes five, ten minutes? What do they have to do?
They have to answer the questions that are prompted, do you still reside at this address. Yes. If they've moved, they need to -- it's a terminal that they can enter all the information. It's in five different languages. And it's the same thing as if I was going to report to a probation officer that has 150 cases. He or she is going to ask me three or four questions, have you been rearrested, have you moved. 124 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 If not --
Okay. So you've basically automated the manual process.
Thank you. Thank you for coming down and helping Philadelphia, sharing your information us. Thank you. You can leave if you want to.
Actually, when I was watching the morning news show this morning on Channel 10, I don't think I saw any snow in New York.
It started here. 125 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 It's coming up there by this afternoon, the evening, 3 o'clock. I'll let you know.
Okay. So who wants to go next? Harriet? Good afternoon.
Good afternoon, Madam Chairman, members of Council. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to come and share, on behalf of the City, the fact that we certainly endorse the need for the increase in probation officers for the Adult Parole and Probation Department. I am the Director for Reentry Services here in the City and I'd like to take this opportunity to share with you the reasons for the City's endorsement of the increase in the number of probation officers and to respond to some of the comments and questions that have arisen this morning by members of Council. First of all, obviously and has 126 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 been stated all morning long, by increasing the number of probation officers, we enable the officers to certainly do a much more effective job. Automatically their caseloads get decreased. We decrease any delays in the offender being able to make contact with the probation officer and we free the agents up to being able to do more work in the community. The Mayor, Mayor Street, created the Mayor's Office for the Reentry of Ex-Offenders back in June of 2005, and I'd just like to touch briefly on some of what we do working with ex-offenders and how critical the Probation Department's role has been in this process throughout the very beginning. First of all, we work with all of the ex-offenders in the City, whether they have come from a federal facility, a state facility or a county facility. And Probation in spite of the fact that they 127 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 have a limited number of staff, they certainly need more. They have just been right there by this office's side doing everything and anything that we've requested of them to do. We started our employment collaborative here in the City trying to increase the number of job opportunities for ex-offenders. That employment collaborative consists of the Mayor's Reentry Office, the Defender's Association, Adult Probation and Parole, members of the Philadelphia Prison System, as well as local service providers. We meet monthly. We identify effective strategies. We partner with our mentoring provider, and together we talk about what's working, what we need to do away with, how we can improve our service, and our ultimate goal is to increase the number of job opportunities for ex-offenders in the City. And, again, I tell you that Probation has been on board from the very beginning, and 128 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 they work tireless. I mean, they just -- I can't ask them to do something and they turn me down. We started the Reentry Housing Committee, because we also recognized that this population finds it difficult to find housing. Probation again is on the board. We work with members of the Department of Behavioral Health, again, the Defender's Association. So there's a network that's alive and well in this City who come together on a regular basis to address the problems of ex-offenders. And I'd just like to take a minute to share with you, having done this job now for almost two years, why I personally feel that without Probation and Parole at the table it would certainly make my job as the Director for Reentry Services so much more difficult. As the Chief testified a little while ago, a week ago we opened up the City's first ex-offender reentry one-stop center and it's located at 54th and 129 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 Woodland Avenues.
We're depending on Probation being in that center with us 40 hours a week, and our thinking is, in order to get the clients to the services that have become available in the City, for those clients who come in to visit with the probation officer, the probation officer then says, Go to the Cubicle 3 three doors down and you will see an employment provider; go to the cubicle right next door to me, there's someone there who can help you with housing; across the hall from me you can get substance abuse or mental health treatment; while you're here, why don't you check in with one of the case managers and enroll in a GED or adult basic education program; go see somebody else for the parenting class that's offered. So we will try to meet the offender where he is, because everybody won't come in willing and wanting to participate in parenting if they don't 130 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 have children. So that service clearly won't be for everybody. But, again, the most important part or the important point that I want to make is that many of the clients will not read in the newspaper that this center is open, they may not hear it on the radio, but when they go to that probation officer and I know that they have to, that probation officer will ensure that they come and get the services that they need. And so that together we will work to reduce recidivism, of course by helping them to find employment, by helping them to find affordable housing, by working and addressing their mental health and substance abuse needs. This is our strategy and this is what we have been doing together. We were doing some of this when I was working in the Philadelphia Prison System, because I was there for years. 24 So our relationship didn't begin when I 25 became the Director of Reentry Services. 131 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 The relationship was established long ago and it has just grown, and now we're just taking services to the next level. And my office also commissioned the University of Pennsylvania through the School of Social Research. It's headed by Dr. Ron Kanon. They're conducting a citywide assessment of all of the reentry services in the City. That report should be completed this June. And we wanted the University of Penn to identify exactly where the deficits are, where the surpluses are, what we have -- if we have more than enough in any given area, point those services out as well. And once again, Adult Probation is working right along with us. They are a member of our research advisory team, and they are just an essential partner in this reentry process. I did not have a prepared statement and I jotted down a few notes, but I think I -- oh, I'd like to make one 132 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 other point, if I may, the fact that the responsibilities of the probation officers are multi-faceted. And, if I may, I'd just like to say this is not a whiny department. You know, they know what they can do, they know where their limitations are, but you never hear them complain. When we come together to meet to tackle a problem, they come to the table with their sleeves rolled up. And I think that that speaks volumes about the leadership of the Department and their passion and their commitment to help this population. And as the professor that previously testified mentioned, we're certainly in that third phase. This Department is working to prevent crime and to help reduce recidivism, make our neighborhoods safer, and they have the full support of the City. Absolutely we need to increase the number of probation officers. Thank you.
Thank 133 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 you, Ms. Spencer. Councilman Savage.
Mrs. Spencer, thank you for coming. You talked about the center, reentry program center.
And the probation officer is there 40 hours a week. Is that something that you do now?
We're meeting this Thursday. A team of about 14 probation officers and supervisors will 15 come out to the center. They will get the tour. We'll talk about the vision and the goals of the center. By the end of the week, I'll know the start date. I believe it's tentatively planned for the probation officer to be on site 40 hours a week beginning the first week of March.
This the first 134 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 center and it's been open one week.
I just want to thank you for your hard work, and I'm really happy to hear that you have a housing division, because that's also a very big need, other than employment. I was wondering, though, I know that there are some restrictions about ex-offenders in public housing, but does that also apply to other subsidized housing or is it just Housing Authority?
Correct. We're 135 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 working with local housing providers in the community and working along with CODAP to try to bring more houses up to code so that we can increase the number of housing units available. And these, of course, will be transitional houses, not long term, not permanent. And this is a first step for us, but to do something immediate to help this population find some housing.
The state-run halfway house on High Street is near me and some of the women from there were talking about their fear of once they were released, they knew they were not going to be able to afford apartments. I just thought it was unfortunate that there was a restriction, there's a general restriction on ex-offenders being allowed to utilize the subsidized housing system for housing. 136 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947
And I believe that it's felons, Madam Chair. It's felons and those who -- any type of drug conviction, of course. Beyond that, I'm not sure about all of the restrictions.
Okay. Thank you. Denise Clayton. And don't forget to please state your name for the record. Thank you.
Good afternoon, Madam Chairman and Councilmembers. I'm Denise Clayton. I'm a Deputy Managing Director, the coordinator of the Youth Violence Reduction Partnership for the City, and I'm here to echo the Administration's support for the resolution to increase probation and parole officers in the City of Philadelphia. Sitting here and listening to the testimony, it's always warming to my heart to hear the Youth Violence Reduction Partnership mentioned several 137 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 times, and I thought that it would be helpful just if I briefly came today to offer from our perspective the effectiveness of having the adult probation officers as a very active partner in YVRP. I know I've been before you before and testifying about the Youth Violence Reduction Partnership, but just a couple facts that I think will help illustrate their partnership. Seventy-five percent of our youth partners actively enrolled in YVRP are part of Adult Probation and Parole, and it is really with -- it is with the commitment from Adult Probation and Parole that they have over these eight years demonstrated and now we have a track record to show what happens when you are able to reduce caseloads. Currently, the probation officers, both in Juvenile and Adult Probation, have a maximum of youth 24 partners in their caseload. One of the 25 things that -- I came from the child 138 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 welfare system prior to being in the juvenile justice system and now the criminal justice system. Not personally but by profession. And, you know, I think that people don't really realize this. I'm sure you do. But in the child welfare system, there is a social worker who is assigned to a case and oversees a caseload. In the juvenile justice system and criminal justice system, in the adult system, there is no social worker. There is a probation officer. And so what that puts on that probation officer is the responsibility of case management. It is not just monitoring and surveillance. And given the challenges that we face today and our communities face today, again, it puts that much more responsibility on the probation officer not just to do surveillance and monitoring -- and that's what you can only do if you have a 150 to 200 cases -- but that if you also have that responsibility of case management -- and 139 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 now you hear my professional bias as a social worker by training -- then you'll have an opportunity to actually try to do something for these young people, depending on what your age group is. As you know, in YVRP, we work with young people under the age of 25, and for many, 75 percent that are on adult, many of those young people have very extensive child welfare histories and juvenile justice history and it's not surprising that now they've graduated into the adult system, because somewhere along the line we have failed them in being able to really give them the kind of service -- the intensity of services that they need. And so in YVRP, I always look at it as the last chance for many of these offenders to get this intensity of services. But it's also rewarding to hear that if we're able to lower caseloads overall in Adult Probation, YVRP and this new unit that Adult Probation has formed 140 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 will not be those only chances. Never again I think for the youth partners -- as you know, we deal with the young people most likely to kill or be killed. I really believe that never again will they get this level of service. For many of them, death will be their next step if we're not there to intervene. And for the rest of them, it will just be graduating into the adult prison system.
So I don't think it takes much to really figure out if the successes of YVRP -- sure, we are very strong on intensive monitoring and surveillance and that the probation officer does it very effectively, but because they have a lower caseload, the probation officer, along with their street worker, is able to meet the needs of that particular individual and, I will underscore, their family. You cannot deal with someone who lives in the community and think that they live in isolation. And the challenges that these young people face, 141 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 it's daunting when you get a chance to read their histories and to get to know them. The thing that also -- and I will be brief -- that I think we often forget is that for many of these people that we're talking about, not only is recidivism just another way of life -- and that we've heard about this morning -- but the thing that gets me is that many of these young people or people are parents. And if we don't do something now to help these young people who are in trouble and that their destiny is sort of set unless we interrupt that, we're not going to have a chance. This is the second generation of young people who have not been parented, and we have to do something to interrupt this repeating cycle. So I always think that when we're working with our youth partners, if we are effective in changing the life of this young man, we are in turn hopefully 142 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 setting a future for his children and that maybe we can break this cycle of young people who haven't been parented and give this next generation a chance. So, again, as part of YVRP and part of the Administration out of the Managing Director's Office, we wholly support the efforts of Probation and Parole and also want to underscore the importance of having more probation officers so that more intensive services can be given to those most at risk. Thank you for having me today.
Very good. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Any questions? (No response.)
Yes, there are. Certainly disproportionate to the men, but, yes, we do have a number of females.
Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you all for 143 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 coming and sharing. We have Ed Schwartz and Bob Zimmerman. Unfortunately, we're running a little behind. We have another committee scheduled at 1 o'clock. Good afternoon. Whoever wants to go first is fine with me. Mr. Schwartz, do you want to go?
I'm Ed Schwartz. I'm President of the Institute for the Study of Civic Values. My testimony on the whole problem of reentry, actually three years ago when this Committee held a hearing on it, ended up on our website for quite some time and has stimulated this follow-up activity. According to the CrimeBase database, also located on the University of Pennsylvania's Neighborhood Information System, which is publicly available, there were more than 88,000 serious Part crimes committed in the City in 2006, not even counting murders and rape. 144 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 One year later, at the request of the Institute for the Study of Civic Values, the Philadelphia Probation Department provided us with a database showing where by zip code more than 43,000 ex-offenders out of a total caseload of roughly 52,000 on probation live in Philadelphia today. Interestingly enough, 9,000 people on probation do not presently live in Philadelphia, which raises the question of why we are responsible for monitoring them. Trying to keep track of 43,000 people on probation is difficult enough. In fact, the spreadsheet we released today, which is at the back of this testimony, shows us the close relationship between the number of people on probation in a neighborhood and the level of serious crime that takes place there. The six zip codes with the highest number of serious crimes are also the six zip codes with the largest number 145 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 of people on probation. Fifteen thousand, six hundred and sixty-four live in these six zip codes, more than one-third the total number of people on probation living in Philadelphia. At the same time, nearly 26,000 serious crimes were committed in these zip codes in 2005, roughly 30 percent. The percentages are nearly identical. These high-crime zip codes are scattered across Philadelphia. They include 19143 in Southwest Philadelphia, 19134 in Port Richmond, 19124 in Frankford, 19121 and 19132 in North Philadelphia west of Broad and 19140 centered around Tioga-Nicetown and Hunting Park. Overall, there are 17 zip codes with more than 1,000 people on probation. Fifteen of these zip codes had more than 2,100 serious crimes in 2005. As an example, more than 5,600 serious crimes were committed in Port Richmond in 2005, an area where there are more than 2,800 146 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 people on probation. We have known for years that most crime is committed by repeat offenders. This data literally brings this general proposition home. Over the past several months, the public debate over neighborhood safety has focused exclusively on where crimes are being committed and what weapons are being used to commit them. The two favored remedies are hiring more police and finding a way to get guns off the streets. This is what we've been trying to do for the past eight years. These statistics tell us that if we want to get serious about crime, we need to look closely at who is committing it around the City and what we can do to get them to stop. Probation is to crime as outpatient care is to disease. Until someone is completely cleared, he or she still poses a threat to the City and a threat to our safety. We either cure 147 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 them of crime or we face their bad behavior again and again. Nothing like this philosophy guides our criminal justice system today. 3 billion we spend to reduce crime in Philadelphia, nearly 50 percent of what we raise in local taxes and fees, $498 million goes to the Police, $194 million goes to the prisons, and by my estimation, another $450 million goes to pay for employee benefits owed to the people working in those departments. We're spending as much as $7,300 to keep a detainee in the Philadelphia prison while they wait three months for trial. 3 billion, only $18 million is spent on probation, a little more than one percent.
And people on this staff are expected to monitor between 180 and I was told at some point 300 people, although we heard somewhat different numbers but still overwhelmingly high, who live in our 148 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 neighborhoods and are responsible for most of the crime. Does this make any sense? In my estimation, the Probation Department now seems to be seeking 100 additional probation officers to pay closer attention to the people most likely to commit crimes in Philadelphia, as determined by a computer analysis that you've heard a lot about this morning, undertaken by Dr. Larry Sherman of the University of Pennsylvania. I support this request and am pleased that I don't seem to have to urge the Mayor and the City Council to support it since they have stepped forward here this morning and already pledged their support. We need a probation system that can hold ex-offenders accountable for their activities on probation, just as organizations administering welfare to work programs hold TANF recipients accountable for fulfilling their 149 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 responsibilities under welfare reform. But beyond ensuring accountability, we need a probation system to oversee the expanded system of support that ex-offenders need to transition into responsible roles within our community. And you've heard some about this this morning in scattered ways. Let me kind of lay them out. Drug treatment. District Attorney Abraham talked about this. We offer this now through the FIR program, which has a demonstrated record of success. But its state and federally funded budget is woefully inadequate to meet the need. How can America claim to be committed to a war on drugs if we are unable to provide treatment to those who need it? That should be a major cause for those of us fighting for a probation system that provides genuine support. Mental illness, which was not mentioned much today. Thousands of 150 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 people in our prison and in our neighborhoods are committing crime because of untended mental illness. Years ago we closed inhumane mental hospitals without replacing them with the community care facilities that were supposed to take their place. So a significant number of people who end up in prison here and elsewhere really need treatment for mental illness. This is a second support system we need to build for people on probation. I would add that the 60 Minutes had a devastating portrait of this problem in the State of Michigan just on Sunday night, mentally ill people in the prisons and how they were being treated, really mistreated. Affordable housing. You've heard about this this morning. Most ex-offenders simply cannot find affordable housing. They're banned from public housing by federal statute. Wouldn't it make more sense to a 151 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 probation system to have a probation system where a probation officer could vouch for the good behavior of an ex-offender and insist that he or she show up regularly for appointments as a basis for letting them live in public housing instead of ending up in homeless shelters or the streets? Job training and jobs, which you've heard about. The same could be also said for these. We need a system to help ex-offenders get job training and jobs. Right now there is no back-up system to reassure an employer, however, that an ex-offender is being monitored for bad behavior. An ample probation system could play this role. None of this will happen, however, until we set as a goal for this City not just to reduce crime but to reduce the number of people who commit it. In 1987, there were more than 5,000 people in homeless shelters in 152 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 Philadelphia. Mayor Goode set a goal of reducing people in the shelters by 300 a month. Groups like Project HOME and People's Emergency Center stepped forward with a continuum of care programs that really made a difference.
Today there are only 2,500 people in shelters and we've cut the City budget to support the homeless in half. The same holds true of welfare reform. In 1997, there were more than 67,000 households in Philadelphia on welfare. Today there are roughly 30,000 households on welfare. To be sure, some are in prison and others are homeless and too few of them have risen above poverty. But thousands of people who were on welfare ten years ago are making a living today. Why? Because this country and this community decided that helping people move from welfare to work should be a national priority and here in Philadelphia we've made it work. That's what we need to do in 153 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 this area in Philadelphia now. We need to set as a goal reducing the number of people who commit crimes as our major strategy for reducing crime itself, by focusing on drug treatment, mental illness, affordable housing and jobs. And at the center of this system should be a probation department with a staff large enough to hold ex-offenders accountable and provide them with needed support. These are already emerging as the City's priorities in fighting crime, as you have heard at this hearing this morning. Looking ahead, we need to insist that every candidate running for Mayor pledge that they will work to build a probation system that can hold ex-offenders accountable for their behavior and that can provide them with the support that they need. This hearing on our probation system is an important step in the right direction. 154 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 The Institute for the Study of Civic Values, in alliance with Philadelphia FIGHT, will do what we can to ensure that this important discussion continues throughout the year until we as a city build the accountability and support system for ex-offenders that all of us need. Thank you. Let me just say one moment about the table in the back just to be very clear, and I'm pleased to say that the Philadelphia Daily News devoted a full page today to this issue prompted, in part, by our work and by this hearing, and they have included a map that takes the top ten zip codes. I found this startling. I didn't know what to expect. We got the data on probation, and you just see the rank and find out 19119 where we live. And then I just went over to this public database that you can easily access at Penn and looked for Part crimes by zip code, and what you see in 155 1 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 the right is the rank of those crimes in relation to the rank on probation. And really they're not absolutely identical, although many of them are, but they are so close. And I think that if we're talking about a culture of crime, really bearing down on helping the people who commit crime turn in a different direction has to be the heart of that system, and the probation system, in my judgment having looked at this for a while, is where that activity needs to be centered. I'll stop.
All right. Thank you. You always bring such good information to these hearings.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning. My name is 156 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 Bob Zimmerman and I am President of Local 810. We represent the 550 probation, parole and hearing officers of the First Judicial District. I thank Councilman Savage for convening this hearing today so that we can begin a dialogue with the City Council, the administrators of the First Judicial District and all the agencies of the criminal justice system that serve the citizens of Philadelphia. We all know about the crime and the violence that is plaguing our City. We at 810 absolutely support the effort to hire more police, probation and parole officers, assistant district attorneys and other professionals that can work on this crucial issue. We also recognize the budgetary restrictions that face our City. Therefore, today I would like to offer some ideas that I and my members have discussed and we, from our years of experience, feel would make us more effective and productive officers. Many of the crimes being 157 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 committed in Philadelphia are being committed by the individuals already under the supervision of the courts. Therefore, the members of Local 810 know that the officers need to have a more manageable caseload so that more intensive supervision of offenders is happening. We know that hiring more officers will help with this issue, but we also think it is important to have more officers in the neighborhoods and not supervising offenders from an office in Center City. We encourage more intensive orientation and ongoing training for our officers; the formation of more specialized units like the Youth Violence Reduction program both in the juvenile and adult court and a gun court in adult; ongoing in-service training for our members so that they can share their experiences with administrators to better supervise the offenders and ultimately protect our citizens. We would like to 158 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 work more closely with the Philadelphia Police Department. It is imperative that I remind you that in many instances Local 810 adult probation and parole officers are able to conduct a search without a warrant. This is an effective crime-fighting tool. Retention of our officers is a very important issue. We have a 40 percent turnover in officers every three to five years. The officers of Local 810 strongly advocate that changes be made so that we will be able to retain officers who will act as teachers and role models to new officers. We lose our officers to federal positions and, most recently, to positions in the surrounding counties. Therefore, we must be competitive. Today we are here to join our partners in the criminal justice system to ask for more officers to better manage caseloads, but we hope to have additional opportunities to address you regarding other issues facing our officers, such as improved 159 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 working conditions, competitive salaries and updating of personnel policies. Again, we appreciate this opportunity to open the lines of communication with City Council, the First Judicial District and our partners in the criminal justice system. We are all in this crisis of crime and violence together. Local 810 members are highly professional and knowledgeable and stand ready to work with you to alleviate violence in our City. Thank you.
No. I can just say that I've been with the Probation Department --
Lisa Podickins. 160 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 Good afternoon. I'm a YVRP officer and I'm here in support of the resolution, and I want to thank you all for listening to our concerns and ideas, and I'm just here in support.
Okay. Thank you. I just have a quick question. What is the starting salary of a probation officer here in Philadelphia?
I believe the starting salary is somewhere in the neighborhood of $38,000.
That's coming right out of college. You have to have a Bachelor's degree, correct?
And when you say that you're losing officers to some of the surrounding counties, they actually are going to those counties to take a similar job as a probation officer?
Correct. Historically we always lost a certain 161 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 amount of numbers to federal probation, but recently, the last six, seven years or so, I've been seeing a substantial increase of officers that are leaving to go to Bucks County and Montgomery County as probation officers, something that was unheard of years ago.
The problem is, the starting salary is -- they're attracting into the Department. There's no doubt about that. It's the motivation and the retention that we're having a problem with. Like they're bringing officers on in the neighborhood of 38 and maxing them out at 44, 45. What really brought this to my attention was that probation and parole officers in the City of Philadelphia are $6,000 underpaid that of a City social worker.
The social worker in the City starts out $5,000 162 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 less, but through a series of years increases to $6,000 more. So although salary isn't the only issue, it's the main issue, because we have families and bills and things of that nature, and I think that can be a contributing factor why we're losing officers at an alarming rate.
Okay. You said that there are retention issues. So what would be some of the things that we would need to do to keep people, other than salary? Improving working conditions you have down here.
The main culprit, Madam, is the pure number of caseload size. I'd just like to add one issue that hasn't been -- if you have a 40 percent turnover rate, the probation officer -- me and you are working side by side and we both have 160, 170 bodies, you leave, that caseload has got to be split down. So on paper we're 163 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 supervising 160, 170, but through the turnover rate, I'm just getting 40 more, you know. I think salary, caseload size. I believe we need to look at the possibility of getting more flex hours as opposed to the 9:00 to 5:00. I think we need to be out of the community more. Years ago we had satellite offices. They all shut down and we're all housed at 1401. So although salary isn't the only issue, I think that it's a main issue. But, again, the caseload sizes are just a pure stress. I mean, it's impossible to follow judges' stipulations because of the pure caseload size.
Sure. And plus even a 9:00 to 5:00 work schedule, you don't have the flexibility to maybe do a 11:00 to 7:00? I mean, they have to take off work to come to you?
We have one 164 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 late night a month, and our statistics show -- and most times we are in align with the Administration, but our statistics show that that's very beneficial as far as collecting money. So I would question whether -- I mean, yeah, you got to take the -- tell the offender, what are you going to do, take off, because I'm only working 9:00 to 5:00. I think the current Administration is looking at that, though, in all due respect to them. I would like to see a more flexed-out schedule. Here's your caseload, supervise it. When I was first coming through years and years ago, we were out in the community. We knew the rec centers. We knew the churches. We knew the families. We've lost that. We've lost that.
Thank you for coming out today, Mr. Zimmerman. 165 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 So basically if you had more parole officers, you would be able to have that human touch that's needed to prevent recidivism that you talk of when you early on were a probation officer?
No doubt about it. I mean, like Bob Malvestuto mentioned earlier, a lot of the smaller caseloads are going to be through the intense supervision. We're still going to have a certain amount of officers that are going to have a higher amount of caseloads. But the smaller the caseload, the more personal you can get with that caseload, especially when it comes to the family. And I think Madam Chair brought that issue up as far as the family addressing the need of the offender through trust as opposed to like diming them out. We lost that touch with the family, and I think that's a very important element and I think that would enhance our -- smaller caseloads would enhance that connection. 166 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947
We really appreciate you guys coming in. Is there anyone else here to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Just one final comment. This is one of the areas where the government is way ahead in the way of the people. Usually it works the other way. But there is much more serious discussion and understanding of this within the government than I think exists out there. And nationally what's fascinating is that even very conservative Senators like Brownback of 167 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 Kansas are now making reentry a major part of their own philosophy. My reasoning about getting this data by neighborhood is to drive home that all people who commit crimes aren't living within three blocks in North Central Philadelphia. I think people are going to be somewhat shocked about the number of people in Frankford in your Seventh Councilmanic District and Port Richmond. So the idea is to convey to the people in neighborhoods that we need to get together and figure out what's happening with these folks who are living not too far from us and giving them more support and, yes, holding them accountable. So we will be doing, the Institute and FIGHT as we did on Martin Luther King's day of service, as you, Councilwoman Miller, participated in, we are going to be doing other community kinds of meetings. And I think you may 168 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 know, I manage a website and e-mail list that reach several thousand neighborhood activists a day. All of this will be up online over the next day or two. So we look forward to working with you to see whatever we can do to get the public on board with the initiative that you have presented here and that the Administration appears to be supporting.
Okay. And that will be great. Thank you. I used the Probation Department to help me with a clean-up on a Saturday, and they said, of course, that all the persons that were out there to help were on probation, and when I looked up, I saw a couple of my neighbors. I had no idea that they were on probation. So it is a whole community effort. We do need to work together.
Seeing that there are no more people here in the Chambers to testify on this bill, we will 169 2/13/07 - PUBLIC SAFETY - RES. 060947 recess this Committee to the call of the Chair. Thank you. (Committee on Public Safety adjourned at 1:05 p.m.) - - - 170 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on February 13, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)