Committee Hearing, February 21, 2007

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Madam Chairman, if I may offer one more thing that I think will give a lot of insight. If we were just complaining about this development, I could see some people say we were a special-interests group. We are preparing to propose to the Philadelphia Regional Port Authority on March the 2nd -- it's a plan. It's a plan that will show how we go from 300 million containers -- I'm 279 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through sorry -- from 300,000 containers to 3.5 million containers. Our industry last year paid $43 million in taxes to the City and State government, with 300,000 containers. If we take it to 3.5 million, can you imagine the tax revenue that the City will -- will generate? So in response to the casino who said, "We're the only solution to your problem," what is happening in our community right now in the maritime industry has never been seen before. The teachers' pension has just invested $2 million to purchase a stevedoring company, $2 million. American International Global Investment Company has just spent $2 billion, okay, of their money to buy P&O Court -- that was the Dubai Port travesty. They just spent $40 million just to be licensed to work in New York. They're an investment company, and what they're saying is that we're not 280 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 changing anything. The maritime 3 industry is where the money is right 4 now, okay? 5 My concern is Philadelphia is 6 closing the doors to something that 7 could replace any need for casinos. 8 Thank you. 9

Thank 10 you. Thank you very much. 11 (Applause.) 12

Good 13 afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record.

Yes . My name's Rene Goodwin, I'm a member of the Board of Pennsport Civic Association, Chair of Riverfront Communities United, and a member of Delaware River Neighborhood Alliance. Thank you for the privilege to come here and speak to you today. My remarks are, first of all, to support the ordinances, the various bills and ordinances introduced by Councilman 281 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through DiCicco. My remarks are addressed mostly to the fact that I am opposed to the casino sites and specifically Foxwoods only because it is the one I am most familiar with; although the facts that I will touch on, I think, are relevant to both sites. Fiction: A casino will enhance the value of an area. 6 drop in value when a casino moved into the neighborhood. That is with a buffer of 2,000 to 5,000 between the properties and the casino. At Foxwoods, the buffer is 480 feet. 6 reduction in value in the neighborhood in this area is a dollar amount in excess of $109 million, and that does not even take into consideration the accelerating real-estate prices even in a somewhat smaller market in the Queen Village, 282 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 Society Hill, and Pennsport areas. 3 Fiction: Casinos will generate 4 revenue in the form of tax revenue. 5 Fact: Foxwoods has not agreed 6 to forego the ten-year tax abatement 7 and, I understand, have not yet paid 8 this year's current real-estate taxes on 9 the property, which exceed a million 10 dollars. 11 Fiction: Foxwoods will donate 42 percent of its profits to designated charities. Fact: Family charitable foundations are a way of preserving personal wealth, and they reduce significantly the tax burden on such wealth. For example, if one leaves a $100 million estate covered by a foundation, virtually no inheritance taxes would be paid. You will have saved your heirs a mere 47 percent or $47 million. Fiction: Foxwoods' traffic 283 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 mitigation plans, which include a new 3 I-95 ramp will address existing and 4 newly-generated traffic congestion and 5 will reduce congestion by an approximate 6 30 percent. 7 Fact: A federal consent decree 8 prohibits the building of additional 9 I-95 ramps between the Ben Franklin 10 Bridge and the Walt Whitman Bridge. 11 Fact: According to Delaware 12 Valley Regional Planning Commission, as 13 a result of additional traffic, quote, there will be adverse impacts to the local communities and infrastructure. Forty percent of casino-generated traffic will use local roadways. Big-box retail stores contribute to the congested nature, and the proposed traffic generation from this site will have increased problems. Fact also: Some of the mitigations that Foxwoods has consistently proposed are relatively simple steps that can be implemented 284 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 right now by the City of Philadelphia 3 and PennDOT. 4 Fiction: The Pennsylvania 5 Gaming Control Board adjudication report 6 of February 1, 2007, states neither 7 Philadelphia entertainment, nor any of 8 its affiliates, including the tribal 9 nation, own any interest in any casino 10 located in Atlantic City. 11 Fact: According to the 12 Associated Press, the Mashantucket 13 Pequot Tribal Nation and MGM Mirage have discussed building on a 14-acre site in Atlantic City. This was never disclosed. Fiction: The casinos will create jobs. Fact: Yes, most of which are $9 an hour. I heard Foxwoods representatives state in front of a group of people that for most of the upper-management jobs, consideration would be given to in-house personnel 285 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 because that is their policy. 3 Fiction: Casinos will generate 4 revenue. 5 Fact: They don't generate 6 anything; they take from other sources 7 by drawing in persons to gamble with 8 monies that would be used for food, 9 clothing, rent, and so forth.

10 Additionally, an increase in 11 crime results, with an average increase 12 of $34,000 per year, which is what is 13 spent by the State on correctional institutions, $34,000 a year a person for every person who is incarcerated. We should count on at least the 17 percent increase in crime. Fiction: The design of the casino will make it a destination, a waterfront destination, and develop an area in need of development. Fact: According to the current situation, the two casinos are not in control of riparian rights; and contrary to what the gentleman said from 286 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through Foxwoods, the review that we have made of the riparian-rights maps indicates that approximately one-third of their 5 acres would be negatively affected by 6 the loss of riparian rights. 7 In fact, to go further, on 8 November 14th, at the Pennsylvania 9 Gaming Control Board hearings, the 10 Foxwoods representative said that 11 although they'd like to have them, they 12 are not sure they really want them 13 because it would be so costly to develop on the waterfront, and without the riparian rights, they can actually increase the size of their casino by 30 percent. I'm assuming they're talking about building up. Fiction: It's a done deal. Fact: Maybe not. )

The 287 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Thank you, 4 Madam President. 5 I appreciate both your comments 6 so far and applaud you for being here. 7 One of the issues -- I mean, 8 it's -- obviously, this legislation is 9 an attempt to kind of redefine the 10 conversation and slow things down or 11 stop 'em, whatever, whatever we finally 12 come up with. 13 One of the ways to slow this down is the agreement that no 15 riparian-rights bill would be introduced in Harrisburg by any House member or any Senate member. Has your coalition taken a position formally?

Yes. In fact, the letters are just about to go out, signed by -- or signed by signatures representing all of the community groups who agreed to that, letters asking all of the Senators, members of the House, 288 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through the Governor, the Attorney General, just to --

Are those 5 letter coming from the coalition or 6 coming from each individual civic 7 association? 8

Both. 9

All right. 10 So Pennsport has sent let -- 11

Both. Yes, our 12 letters have actually already gone out. 13

Okay.

And the letter requests not only that legislation regarding riparian rights and associated parcel not be introduced, but that any other legislation that would be accommodating or friendly to the casinos not be introduced.

Could you, if possible, get the committee copies of those individual letters --

Absolutely.

-- from 289 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through your civic association and from any other groups, okay?

Absolutely. 5

Thank you. 6

Thank you. 7

Thank 8 you very much. 9

Thank you. 10

Good 11 afternoon. Please identify yourself for 12 the record and proceed with your 13 testimony.

Hello. I'm Mary Reinhart, and I live in Pennsport, and I'm here simply to talk on my own behalf because I want to tell you that I live a two-minute walk away from the proposed Foxwoods site. And so on December 20th, when I heard that they had been granted a license, I was stunned and I was sickened. And, in part, I was feeling that way because I was there in 290 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through Harrisburg on November the 14th, when Foxwoods made its presentation to the Gaming Board, and I actually heard their spokesman say that they plan to put an offramp over Front Street and to widen Front Street to the west to accommodate the traffic. And I live right there. And if they widen Front Street to the west, dozens of houses and buildings will go down before a bulldozer. And this stunned me, this upset me. I'm furious about it. The spokesman there was as cool as a cucumber as he talked about our fate, and the Gaming Board was mute. They followed up with no questions. They simply accepted calmly and placidly, apparently, the fact that these casinos will do these vile things to our neighborhood. If people choose to spend their time gambling, to spend their money gambling, you know, that's really their 291 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 business. But it's my business when the 3 State wants to drop these slot parlors 4 into my neighborhood to corrupt it, to 5 destroy potential jobs, to take our 6 homes. Then it's my business, and I'll 7 do anything to stop that. 8 (Applause.) 9

I've 10 demonstrated, I've blocked traffic, I've 11 written to the newspapers, I've written 12 to State Representatives, to the 13 Governor, I've written to you, I've collected hundreds of signatures on a petition to put this question on the ballot. I'm even here testifying in front of you in a T-shirt in this beautifully elegant room so that you can see that I'm prepared to do almost anything to stop this. And I hope that I won't have to stand in front of bulldozer to stop that bulldozer from tearing down my 1860s house. And so I'm prepared to do that, 292 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through but I hope I don't have to. I'll also be in the voting booth on May 15th supporting all of you who help us. So I'm helping you. (Applause.)

Frankly, 8 frankly, I'm pleading with you now to 9 use your zoning-rights abilities to keep 10 this corruption away from our doors. 11 Thank you. 12 (Applause.) 13

Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

I just -- I want to bring to your attention a legislative nuance that's important to understand when it comes to Harrisburg.

Yes.

In January, when the members of the State House were sworn in, it's quite a different situation now. 293 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2

Good. 3

The 4 Democrats are in the majority. 5

Good. 6

Okay? The 7 people who represent most of 8 Philadelphia in the House are Democrats. 9 In the past, any piece of legislation 10 that would be introduced by a Democrat 11 from Philadelphia in the House 12 controlled by the Republicans was most 13 likely to ever see the light of day. That has changed. We have a different Speaker of the House, we have different chairmanships of all of the committees. So anything that's introduced in the House to slow this up or to change this or to make this better will see the light of day because the Democrats are in control. Now, when it gets to the Senate, it's a different story because the Republicans still control it, and the Governor supports gaming, so it -- 294 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through but the point is that if you can get a piece of legislation to the floor, which you can in the House of Representatives, because of the change in leadership, that is another arrow in our quiver to try to do something the right way. So you got to really stay on your State House members to move legislation through, because they have the authority now to do it. They've all moved up in seniority, they're all heads of committees now, and it's easier to get something on the floor of the House than it is the Senate.

I appreciate that guidance.

Good.

And I'm going to use it. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. (Applause.) 295 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2

Mr. McPherson? MR. McPHERSON: The next panel consists of Joe Dougherty and Sam Staten.

Joe 8 Dougherty and Sam Staten? 9 (Witness comes forward.) 10

Good 11 afternoon. 12

Good afternoon. 13

Would you please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

I'm Ryan Boyer, Secretary-Treasurer of Local 332. Mr. Staten could not be here so I'm here in his stead to read his testimony. Madam Chairwoman and members of the committee, again, my name is Ryan Boyer, and I'm the Secretary-Treasurer of Local 332, and I thank you for this opportunity to appear before you with my brothers and sisters in the union 296 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through movement to discuss the importance of the casino construction projects which are coming to Philadelphia. As many of you may know, my local is primarily made up of African-Americans who live in Philadelphia. In fact, many of them live in the very neighborhoods where these casinos will be built. For them and all other members of my local, gaming offers a unique opportunity, an important economic opportunity. It's an opportunity to obtain union jobs in both the construction and hopefully the operation of casinos, which offer meaningful, liveable wages, significant benefits, and a real chance to both support a family and maintain hope for the future. Not only will these project create hundreds, and eventually thousands, of new jobs, but they will also pump hundreds of millions of dollars back into the City and the 297 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 State, a portion of which will be used 3 to reduce our city's wage taxes, which 4 is an important issue for our members. 5 Moreover, an issue which has 6 gotten lost in the arguments is the fact 7 that some of these taxes will be used to 8 support the expansion of the 9 Pennsylvania Convention Center, another 10 critical source of new jobs for both my 11 members and the City of Philadelphia. 12 The gun violence which 13 permeates our city, and in particular our minorities neighborhoods, is a serious problem which weighs heavily on everyone in this room. While there is no magical single solution to this unrelenting problem, the training for the creation of real jobs which produce hope rather than despair has got to play a significant role in any resolution. These casinos projects create real potential to create significant jobs and long-term hope for many. It is rare for a building (indiscernible) 298 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 industry to come to Philadelphia and 3 announce that it is prepared to create 4 thousands of new jobs in both 5 construction and operation of these 6 facilities. 7 For my members, these casinos 8 projects are not abstract arguments, 9 which are the subjects of editorials and 10 long legal briefs; rather, they provide 11 meaningful and tangible opportunities to 12 take real steps toward economic security 13 for the future. In the world I live in, these types of economic engines are too far and few between. As elected representatives with the responsibility to all citizens of this great city, we should embrace these opportunities rather than seek to delay them at every turn. Every casino executive has publicly committed to creating economic opportunity for those individuals and small businesses particularly in the minority communities who are often left on the outside 299 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 looking in. In addition, they have 3 vowed to be good neighbors, both to the 4 neighborhoods surrounding them and the 5 City overall. 6 If they fulfill these 7 commitments, it will be good for them 8 and great news for Philadelphia. For 9 their benefit and ours, they deserve the 10 opportunity to try. 11

Thank 12 you very much. We appreciate your 13 patience. Thank you. I would ask Mr. McPherson to please call the next panel. MR. McPHERSON: Jeff Rush, Richard Wolk, Kathy Dilonardo. (Witnesses come forward.)

My name's Jeff Rush and I am president of the Queen Village Neighbors Association. (Interruption.)

Good afternoon, Madam President, Councilman DiCicco, and other distinguished members of City 300 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through Council. My name is Jeff Rush. I'm President of the Queen Village Neighbors Association and a charter member of the Delaware River Neighborhood Alliance. I'd like to thank Councilman DiCicco and all of you for allowing us the opportunity to speak with you this morning. This is not the first time I've appeared before City Council. You may know me. I'm a 25-year resident at Old Swedes' Court at Delaware and Christian Street. And you may recall the last time I appeared before this august body was to ask for residential zoning for the site previously occupied by Philly Ship and the infamous chicken slaughterhouse across from Swedes' Court. Your approval enabled the construction of 50 new townhomes and an end to a hundred years of blight. We are ail witnesses to a remarkable period of development in many 301 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 areas of our great city. Nowhere is 3 this more evident than in Queen Village. 4 The vibrancy and diversity of our 5 community is the cumulative result of 6 thousands of homeowners and businesses 7 who have worked hard for many, many 8 years creating a truly great 9 neighborhood, one that I am proud to 10 call home. As a result, we and our 11 neighbors to the north and south are 12 rapidly helping to rebuild 13 Philadelphia's tax base. But the trust in our political leadership engendered by such enlightened local-government actions as the rezoning of Philly Ship -- excuse me -- and the slaughterhouse properties is now in jeopardy. That's because without transparency or adequate consultation, State authorities and their agent, the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board, have highjacked our rightful participation in the decision-making process, and 302 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 selected totally inappropriate sites to 3 locate slot parlors in our 4 neighborhoods. 5 Swedes' Court and Gloria Dei 6 Church across the street from it are 7 only three blocks south of the double 8 slide-under ramp that would service the 9 Foxwoods Casino that the State would 10 site just three blocks down Columbus 11 Boulevard. 12 The result in traffic will 13 absolutely overwhelm Columbus Boulevard, not to mention Christian Street and Washington Avenue, which are gateways to Queen Village and Pennsport. As you are no doubt aware, we are already inundated with the traffic from Ikea and the other retail developments to the south. The threat of an additional estimated 50 to 60,000 visitors a week descending in and through our streets would have an immeasurable negative impact on our way of life. 303 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 I am here to tell you, this is 3 not acceptable. I do not believe that 4 City Council wants to, or should, 5 abdicate or otherwise abandon its 6 responsibility to Queen Village or any 7 other neighborhood in the City. 8 The State has systematically 9 stripped Council's rightful 10 decision-making power on behalf of its 11 residents and business-owners in the 12 strongest possible terms. 13 We urge Council to take back its power. Continue to refuse zoning to predatory gambling operators. Force the State, by any means, to allow Philadelphia to choose whether or where to site any slots parlors. Continue to support Councilman DiCicco's proposals that will save our neighborhoods. And, finally, support our request for a referendum signed by nearly 28,000 tax-paying residents of the City of Philadelphia, and put the question of slots parlors on the May 304 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 primary ballot. 3 (Applause.) 4

And, finally, be the 5 strong, committed City Council doing 6 what it was elected to do. 7 Represent the best interests of 8 the citizens of Philadelphia. And by 9 doing so, restore our faith in equity 10 and justice. 11 Thank you. 12 (Applause.) 13

Thank you. Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record.

Good afternoon, Madam President and members of City Council. Thank you for the opportunity to speak at this hearing. I'm Kathy Dilonardo. I have lived in Queen Village for 32 years. During that time, I've worked for the National Park Service at Independence National Historical Park 305 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through and in the northeast regional office as the Chief of Visitor Services before I retired last year. My husband and I have a son who's a senior in high school. I'm a member of the Queen Village Neighbors Association Committee on Casinos and their impact, and so I've been doing a lot of reading on the effects of casinos -- books, news articles, studies by universities, and reports by state governments. And no matter what I've read, nothing that I've read is positive. No 16 matter what I've read, the numbers, the conclusions, the data were all very similar -- equally horrific -- and have far-reaching effects on our community. Data from gambling communities across the country indicates that gambling fosters a significant increase in crime. S. News and World Report analysis found crime in casino communities to be 84 percent higher than 306 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 the national average, and Philadelphia's 3 already well above the national average. 4 Court cases in the Mississippi 5 County, host to a large casino complex, 6 went from 689 a year to 11,100 five 7 years later. That's a 17-times increase 8 in court cases. 9 Police calls quadrupled in 10 Ledyard, Connecticut -- that's the town 11 adjacent to the Foxwoods Casinos -- from 12 4,000 to 16,700 five years later, four 13 times as many calls after Foxwoods opened. So imagine four times the number of calls for the Philadelphia Police Department. A lot of those increased calls and crime would take place in Queen Village, Pennsport, and Society Hill. Our concerns deepen when we read about the unseen but, nevertheless, real damages casinos will do to our communities. Adolescent gambling increases dramatically. Almost 307 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 two-thirds of Atlantic City high school 3 students have been in the casinos in 4 Atlantic City. 5 Suicide rates go up. Atlantic 6 City found that abnormally high suicide 7 levels for residents and visitors 8 appeared only after casinos opened 9 there. Nevada has had the highest 10 suicide rate for more than ten years, 11 both residents and visitors. 12 Bankruptcy rates have reached 13 record levels in the country despite a relatively robust economy. States report that the counties in which casinos are located have the highest rates of bankruptcies in their respective states, including Iowa, Tennessee, Maryland, California, New Jersey, et cetera, et cetera. The study of the personal bankruptcy crisis, which is related to no gambling interests whatsoever, pro or con, says that it now appears gambling is the single fastest-growing driver of 308 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 bankruptcy. 3 Divorce rates, child abuse and 4 neglect, domestic violence, gambling 5 addiction, and job loss all increase in 6 communities that have casinos. After 7 the casino arrived in Harrison County, 8 Mississippi, divorces are up by 850 each 9 year. 10 At Foxwoods in Connecticut, 11 authorities have had to put up signs in 12 the casino parking lots warning parents 13 not to leave their children in cars unattended. What kind of parent needs a sign to remind them of that. As Jeff Benedict noted, before Foxwoods and a second casino appeared in Connecticut, the state had one gambling-addiction center; now it has 17. And one last point about jobs. Casinos don't create new revenue; their revenue is cannibalized from other businesses where the money would have been spent if a casino were not 309 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 available. Gamblers spend 10 percent 3 less on food and 25 percent less on 4 clothing.

5 The job casinos create are 6 real, but one job figure casino 7 companies don't advertise is that for 8 every three slot machines, we will lose 9 two jobs in the economy that hosts the 10 casino. That is due to the $100,000 per 11 year per slot machine that will not be 12 used somewhere else in the economy. 13 And for every dollar of casino revenue going to the State, $3 will be spent on the social-service needs created by the casino -- the added addiction centers, the court-appointed lawyers, unemployment, welfare, counseling, prison, et cetera. That's $2 more the State has to find. All of the money that casinos give to the government in revenue cannot offset the tsunami of economic and human devastation their presence ignites in the community. It's folly to think that 310 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through we will be immune. We need for you to work together to find ways to keep casinos out of not only Queen Village but all of Philadelphia's neighborhoods. Thank you. )

Good 10 afternoon. Please identify yourself for 11 the record. 12

My name is Richard 13 Wolk, and I'm a member of the Board of Directors of QVNA, Queen Village Neighbors Association, and the Delaware River Neighborhood Alliance. And today, I represent the new people who are moving into the City and why. Madam President and Councilmembers, I thank you for this opportunity to voice my support for Councilman DiCicco's bills that are before you today. Almost four years ago, my wife and I moved to Queen Village, after 311 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through spending months looking at properties throughout the City. We chose Queen Village because it is truly a village within a large city, an historic village comprised of rowhouses, many of which are the oldest structures in our city, some inhabited by five- and six-generation families. The historic significance of Old Swedes' Church adds a testament to the Swedish immigrants who settled here before even William Penn. The Shot Tower, one of only two still standing in our nation and its significance to the War of 1812. The houses and factories along Front Street are a testament to the earliest merchants and workers who came off the ships and settled here. All of this history facing the Delaware River, a stone's throw from where a casino might be built with its massive, windowless boxes and garish neon signs. 312 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 What is it about Queen Village 3 that my neighbors and I love? It's the 4 diversity and community of my neighbors. 5 It's the pleasure of walking its 6 historic streets. It's the 7 accessibility by foot to wonderful 8 dining, shopping, culture, and to the 9 Delaware River itself. It's the green 10 parks, community gardens, and the 11 playgrounds. 12 We have a community that is 13 involved and works tirelessly to preserve the heritage of our village. Even the quality of the neighborhood's public grade school has remained one of the best because of active parent-teacher involvement, and that is quite something to say in Philadelphia. Philadelphia is a city that thrives on tourism based on its historic place in the formation of our country. Families far and wide bring their children here to see where it all began. Visitors from foreign lands come to 313 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 Philadelphia to experience the Cradle of 3 Liberty. 4 Families, I repeat, families 5 are the backbone of Philadelphia 6 tourism. 7 (Applause.) 8

They stay at our 9 hotels, eat at our restaurants, and shop 10 at our stores. 11 Las Vegas is the perfect 12 example of where gambling and family 13 entertainment does not mix. It started out as the Sin City, spent millions, millions trying to turn it into a family resort; it did not work. You've heard their slogan, "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas." Do we want this to be Philadelphia? Queen Village is a quiet, wonderful neighborhood. At community meetings, unfortunately, people who have been here for years talk about moving their families out if the casinos come. Please, please help us save 314 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through this historic jewel for future generations who may not have the opportunity to see how people lived in the 18th and 19th century. Thank you very much. (Applause.)

9 You're welcome. Thank you. 10 Are there any questions of 11 these witnesses? 12 (No questions.) 13

Thank you. Mr. McPherson, would you please call the next panel. MR. McPHERSON: Rick Levins, Eric Rudy, Phillip Bogaten, Dave Dowling. (Witnesses come forward.)

Good afternoon, Madam President and members of Council. My name is Richard Levins, a lifelong Philadelphian and a resident of Fishtown for the last 25 years. My wife and I 315 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 13 have raised my family -- two daughters -- in Fishtown. Thank you for holding today's hearings on this important topic of casino zoning and for allowing me to testify. Thank you also for your leadership on important zoning issues affecting Philadelphia. With your attention to planning and economic development, our city has undergone a major transformation this decade that has strengthened Philadelphia's position as a world-class city. As chairman and president of the New Kensington Community Development Corporation, coach for the Fishtown Athletic Club, and participant in other neighborhood organizations, I spend a considerable amount of time volunteering in my community. Today, however, I testify as an individual who lives just a few blocks from the SugarHouse Casino site, and my 316 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through remarks pertain to this project. At one time the SugarHouse site housed the Jack Frost Sugar Refinery. For generations, Jack Frost served as a major employer for the neighborhood. Nearby residents could walk to work, earn an honest pay, and receive company benefits that could help raise a family. Unfortunately, Jack Frost went the way of other factories along its Delaware River. After closing, Jack Frost became a rat- and trash-infested eyesore, and it continues to this day to be a barrier to the river. As one would expect, the proposal for SugarHouse has spurred healthy debate in our neighborhood regarding the future of the waterfront and its impact on residents. While neighbors are concerned with increased traffic and the drain on existing city resources in the vicinity, they also see the casino as a contributor to the local economy and a means to improve their 317 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 family's quality of life. 3 Many of the residents I have 4 spoken with expressed their view that a 5 casino will bring many positive 6 developments. They see opportunity to 7 walk to a full-service restaurant, to 8 see a show, and enjoy a view of the 9 river. 10 They see opportunity for 11 employment for themselves and their 12 children. They see opportunity to 13 receive a fair wage, to obtain solid health benefits, and advance the City's growing hospitality industry. Local merchants also see opportunity for local vendors such as flower shops, bakery, dry cleaners, and other small businesses to expand their operations in our neighborhood. These are not the type of opportunities that are afforded by high-rise gated communities that offer increased traffic congestion while denying waterfront access and other 318 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 economic benefits that a casino would 3 yield. 4 In my various volunteer roles, 5 I have seen firsthand the challenges 6 that many families face when they are 7 trapped in low-paying jobs that offer no 8 health or life insurance benefits. 9 Many times, these Fishtown and 10 Kensington families cannot afford the 11 $45 registration fee to enroll their 12 child in a sports team that plays on a 13 rock-and-cinder field. Sometimes they cannot pay their heating bills or afford decent housing. Often, members of these families work jobs -- corner store by day, bartending at night, and odd jobs when they can get them. Many of these families speak of "the good old days" not too long ago when their parents worked at the American Can Company at the old Sugar House and other neighborhood manufacturers. To these families, a 319 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 casino means jobs and the prospect of 3 not having to leave their neighborhood 4 to secure decent employment.

5 It also means having a 6 reputable business that is willing to 7 give back and work as a partner with the 8 community to ensure its future 9 prosperity. 10 Again, thank you for holding 11 these important hearings on this topic. 12 As you consider legislation to amend 13 Philadelphia's zoning laws, I ask that you take care not to prevent responsible business enterprises from making investments that will strengthen the fabric of our neighborhoods while building upon Philadelphia's role as a world-class convention and tourist destination.

Thank you very much. (Applause.)

The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee. 320 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2

Mr. Levins, just a quick question, if I could. I take it by this, you have had conversations with the SugarHouse people; and if so, how have they gone?

The answer is yes, 8 Councilman. 9

Mm-hmm. 10

I started 11 interactions with the SugarHouse Casino 12 along with several other community 13 residents early last year, probably February, April. And I can say that every time we called them to any meeting, they were there. And I can actually compare the relationship that we had with the SugarHouse applicant to the Pinnacle applicant, and it was night-and-day. The Pinnacle applicant, with a lot of notice, came unprepared to every meeting, made to commitment to the community in any way, shape, or form. Whereas, the SugarHouse, as early as 321 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through last April, sent us a detailed letter with a detailed commitment, financial and otherwise.

Okay. 6 And do you think, as time goes on, you 7 could reach a real community agreement 8 with them? 9

Yes, yes. 10

If it 11 continues? 12

Yes. 13

Okay. I know the other residents from there too, but I just wanted to get that on the record. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you. Any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.) 322 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2

Please identify yourself for the record.

Good afternoon. 5 I'm Philip Bogaten, and I've been born 6 and raised in Philadelphia. 7 I've had my own business in 8 Philadelphia for the past 60 years, and 9 I bought the real estate north of Spring 10 Garden Street to Shackamaxon for the 11 last 30 years. 12 And most of the properties that 13 I bought were abandoned, as this gentleman explained. And over the years, I have spent millions of dollars to rehab all those properties so that now it's a wonderful neighborhood. I own Building 1080 North Delaware Avenue. It was -- I brought a picture to show you, if you would like to see what it looked like, and now there's millions of dollars that have been spent, there's hundreds of people that work in the property, and it's a wonderful neighborhood. 323 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through And we're right across the street from the SugarHouse, and it's going to be marvelous to bring in and rebuild that whole area. As a matter of fact, here's 1450, which is part of the SugarHouse, which is anticipating two condominiums to be built on that area, which is absolutely going to be magnificent. So I really encourage the Council to consider favoring the SugarHouse. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you. (Applause.)

Please identify yourself for the record, sir.

Hi. My name is Eric Rudy. I'm a resident of Fishtown since 1991, and I've been involved with Fishtown Athletic Club since 1998. 324 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through Since then, I have started out as a parent, became a coach, soccer director, and treasurer of Fishtown Athletic Club, and that's where I am right now, in all four of those capacities. Being involved about eight years ago meant the 10- and 12-year-olds that I worked with are now at the age where they'd be looking for jobs, and they're not finding a lot of jobs in the area that are high-paying that are 40 hours a week, provide health benefits, and so on. Being with the club for eight years, I've seen also that we have registration fees that are, in large part, covered by people in the community and by businesses in the community. A lot of the mom-and-pop stores that we had years ago have, with the increasing values of the houses and with the bigger stores, the chains like Home Depot and places like Applebee's, you 325 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 know, a lot of the mom-and-pop stores 3 are no longer. They've either been put 4 out of business or they've sold out at a 5 good value as our housing values went 6 up, but these are a lot of jobs that 7 have moved out. 8 In this last registration for 9 baseball, it will cost us about $125 to 10 outfit one player for baseball. We're 11 only charging $65 for that, and that's 12 because we hope to get $40 for each 13 person playing baseball or softball. We're hoping to get donations that will offset that. We may fall short; the last couple years we have. Our balance has -- has gone down really low. It now is in danger. If we put registration fees up where they should be, we're going to be losing a lot of players. We're going to have a lot more kids that will not be able to play for the club. They're going to lose a lot of experiences, they're going to lose those values that you learn 326 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 through playing athletics. 3 Last spring, I met with Ken 4 Snider. He was touring around, looking 5 at what is going on in the community. 6 He met with us at the club and got to 7 know, like, what our needs were and what 8 we'd like to see. 9 If casino gambling does come to 10 our area, we would love to see a 11 community-benefits agreement that will 12 help stabilize the neighborhood, 13 stabilize our charities such as ours -- we're nonprofit, something that will give us a lot of control on how we can see the benefits of the casinos, you know. So I think that's it.

Thank you very much. We appreciate your patience in staying to testify. Thank you so much. Any questions? (No questions.)

Thank 327 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through you, gentlemen. PANEL: Thank you.

5 Mr. McPherson? 6 MR. McPHERSON: The next panel 7 consists of Joe McNulty, A.J. Thompson, 8 Matt Ruben, Matt Pappajohn, Katie 9 Recker, Laura Lance. 10 (Witnesses come forward.) 11

It's still 12 Wednesday, right? 13

Pardon me?

It's still Wednesday, right?

As far as I know.

Good afternoon, members of Council and Chairwoman Verna. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My name is A.J. Thompson and I'm a member of many things but I'm here today as a father and a husband. And I'm here because of some 328 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through recent comments that I've read from none of the people in front of me but some members of Council who have sort of given up, and the Solicitor's testimony wasn't very encouraging, either. And my testimony today focuses on what I think Philadelphia and this Council should be doing is to be standing up for everybody in Philadelphia. And I say this because it's almost as if members of Council, the Solicitor, and some other people have treated the State as this all-powerful Leviathan that can do whatever it wants in this nebulous concept of Harrisburg and how all-powerful it is, and nobody wants to touch this third rail of casinos, because Harrisburg is going to do what it's wants.

Madam President, I'm sorry. I think we've been on the third rail of casinos for the past number of hours. I don't -- 329 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2

I know. 3

I mean, 4 you're saying we're -- we don't want to 5 touch the third rail of casinos, the 6 Council here? What have we been doing? 7 We're listening to -- 8

This is today. 9

We're 10 listening to people. We have ten pieces 11 of -- 12

Councilman 13 Kenney, I've sat here --

We have ten pieces of legislation.

I have sat here for five hours --

So have I.

And I haven't been paid for that time --

So have I.

-- so can I have --

So have I.

-- some time to 330 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through talk, please?

So have I. 4 But you got to tell the truth. 5

Just 6 a minute. 7

I'm not here -- 8 I'm here to -- 9 (Indiscernible; parties talking 10 over each other.) 11

12 Please do not both -- 13

That's what you need to do.

Everybody else --

You need to tell the truth.

Listen to me, sir, listen to me. That's all I ask you. That's all I ask you to do.

(Inaudible, off mic.)

Okay. And before I said it, I said nobody in front 331 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through of me has done that, okay? If you don't like it go back to your cell phone.

Tell the 5 truth. That's all you need to do. 6

But what I see 7 is a change happening here in 8 Philadelphia. I think we do -- we are 9 gaining an upper hand here in terms of 10 how we deal with the State, okay? Maybe 11 because of some of the efforts of what 12 you've been doing. 13 So if you would have listened to me, maybe you would have heard it, okay? Try to jump down my throat before I said anything, okay? I'm here as a resident. You're here 'cause I pay you to be here.

Whoa. Now, listen. Let's have respect for each other, please.

Okay. Well, I don't believe I was respected.

Well, if I didn't respect you, I apologize. 332 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2

Okay. 3

But I just 4 want the truth here and not some twisted 5 version of it. 6

I haven't 7 twisted anything. 8

Not that 9 you've done it. 10

Okay. 11

12 Please proceed. 13

On many levels, what was once used as an unchecked reality to us on the waterfront has become something that many don't view as a forgone conclusion anymore. Where people once thought we had no power, the conduct of the PGCB and its false reasons for choosing these sites have proven to be an indictment on the process and a reason for all of us to question whether this development is really meant to benefit taxpayers or a select few. 333 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through I say this as someone who supports gaming in this city, and I do. I believe there are many people on Council who do. I say this as someone who's spent a better part of my life in the last year learning about the intricacies and the issues and the problem that face my community. And I've done it, every minute of it, because I believe and I care about my neighborhood. I'm a fifth-generation Fishtowner, and I've done it because I care, okay? I didn't do it because I wanted to twist any truth or accuse anybody of not doing anything. But I did it because I care about my neighborhood. And I say that it's possible to be in favor of gaming and support the bills that are before you today, it's possible to do so. It's possible because people have gone out there and got signatures for a referendum, 27,000 people in a 334 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 couple weeks. It's the largest act of 3 citizen-initiated democracy in my adult 4 life -- and maybe in my life -- and 5 that's to be applauded. 6 People are looking to you to 7 stand up here to Harrisburg. We're 8 looking for you to do this. We're 9 looking for your votes on behalf of us 10 to take back what we see as the ability 11 for us to control our own destinies. 12 And if we pass the zoning provisions 13 that Councilman DiCicco has introduced, we will do that. Because I believe, and I think many people also believe, that the PGCB and its adjudication and the laws that this is all resting on are on thin ice. No politically savvy person would agree that if this bill was introduced today, in light of the pay-raise shenanigans, that this would have passed, no one. So it's time to turn back the clock. We've seen press releases from 335 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 the Governor's Office and everyone else 3 and the PGBC touting property tax reform 4 and how people in Adams County and 5 Potter County and Beaver County are 6 going to get $120 off a year at the 7 expense of some of my neighbors. 8 And I've been out there as a 9 proponent 'cause I believe maybe gaming 10 will work in this city, but it's not 11 being done properly. 12 Representative O'Brien, 13 Councilman DiCicco, to some extent yourself, Councilman Kenney, my councilman, Councilman Clarke, have been out there speaking about trying to get a hold on this process and to get this train that's been barreling out of control since last year back on the right track. I think it's possible that, you know, people who are for gaming think that those of us who are now talking about it in a different light say we're drinking the Koolaid. Well, I don't 336 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 drink Koolaid, and I know that you guys 3 aren't drinking Koolaid, because I think 4 we've taken a shot of courage here. 5 And I think everybody on 6 Council needs to take a shot of that 7 courage, maybe ten shots, and vote these 8 bills out of committee. And when they 9 get in front of the whole body, vote 10 them so that they're veto-proof and that 11 they go up there. 12 And unlike the Solicitor, who, 13 I'm sure, is a legal scholar and an eminent legal mind, but when I hire an attorney, I don't want him to tell me I'm going to lose before I even start. And if we pass these bills, let the Supreme Court tell us that we're wrong but give the people of Philadelphia a voice here. I liken this situation that we're faced with right now with somebody coming into your house as a guest.

You know, we invited this guest in -- the State, the casino companies -- come on 337 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through in to our house, you know, I'll give you a room upstairs. You know, we let the person rearrange the room a little bit. We damn sure don't let an interior decorator come in, start knocking down walls, and knocking everything down and telling us what we're going to have in our own home, 'cause we need to treat our riverfront and our neighborhoods like they're our home. And they are our home. And if you asked -- if you take the Solicitor's comments today, he's saying to us, Why should we even speak up? Well, because if we don't do this now, I believe that this gaming development may not work the way we want it to in the best way for our neighborhoods. So I think it's time for everybody to -- to -- you know, when you guys -- everybody's up for election. When you guys are talking about running, 338 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 everybody says, "I fight for our 3 neighborhoods," let's fight for it. 4 Well, it's time to fight this 5 Harrisburg nebulas, this monster that 6 everybody talks about -- Harrisburg, 7 Harrisburg, Harrisburg, Harrisburg. 8 Well, I think -- and, you know, 9 nobody would ever accuse anybody from 10 Fishtown of not being able to fight or 11 at least know what a fight was, but I 12 think it's time that Council fight for 13 us and for everybody who wants to have this gaming development work, if it's going to come. But fight for us, pass these bills, and live up to what I think you guys want to do, and fight for our neighborhoods. Thank you.

Thank you. Who would like to testify next?

My name's Matt Pappajohn. I am a resident of Fishtown. 339 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through I've lived in Philadelphia all of my life, and I thank you for having me here today. Madam President and members of Council, I'm a member of NABR -- that's Neighbors Allied for Best Riverfront, and I am its delegate to the Delaware River Neighborhood Alliance, which comprises civic groups which span the 11 Delaware from the Betsy Ross Bridge to 12 the Walt Whitman Bridge. The DRNA was 13 formed to enable our collective communities to better deal with the booming menace of gambling in Philadelphia. I also belong to the Fishtown Neighbors Association, and I hope that's the body that you will look to for guidance on casinos vis-a-vis Fishtown. I respect Rich Levins and what he had to say, but he does not speak for our community. The Fishtown Neighbors Association is the recognized civic group there. And, again, please look to 340 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 us for guidance. 3 To protect my family, my home, 4 and my community, I've been forced to 5 live and breathe casinos for the last 6 year, and I resent that. 7 The legislature could have 8 easily drafted Act 71 to benefit and 9 protect anyone they preferred. They 10 clearly preferred the politically 11 connected rather than write provisions 12 into the law that would empower and 13 protect neighborhoods where these out-sized slots boxes would be dropped. Pennsylvania legislators instead chose to include provisions which would benefit their cronies, casino operators, Pennsylvania horsemen, and even themselves. When it came time for the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board to draft its regulations, it could have done so on behalf of anyone it chose. In spite of its primary mandate of protecting above all else the residents 341 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 of the Commonwealth, the PGCB chose, 3 however, to favor and protect casino 4 operators and the politically connected 5 with its regulations. 6 Neither the legislature nor the 7 PGCB ever saw fit during the two-year 8 process to put forth a single community 9 preservation initiative or to offer any 10 assistance or guidance to communities 11 faced with these looming menaces. 12 Even as the Pennsylvania Gaming 13 Control Board and the legislature were busy doing nothing for the residents and communities of Philadelphia that might host these slots parlors, they were vigorously trying to take something from us. In spite of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court's tossing out the provision in Act 71, which would allow the State to preempt local zoning, legislature was making a grab for it again. Senate Bill 862, one of the 342 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 most contemptuous bills ever to come 3 down our river, among other things, 4 sought to assert Philadelphia right of 5 home rule and placed zoning control over 6 casino sites back in the hands of the 7 PGCB, an unelected body of political 8 appointees who have thus far not 9 demonstrated anything but contempt for 10 the City. 11 This particular aggression by 12 the State is unprecedented. When has it 13 ever tried to take so much from us while giving us so little? As you know, though, many people in the room, elected or not, fought tooth-and-nail, kicking and screaming to make sure that SB862 did not pass. With the help of our State Representatives O'Brien, Taylor, Lederer, and Keller and this Councilmatic body, we won. This victory cannot be squandered. We must maximize and use 343 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 the zoning power for which we fought so 3 hard. 4 Councilman DiCicco's 5 resolutions strengthen our zoning 6 position vis-a-vis casinos. These 7 developments have the potential for 8 grave and irrevocable consequences for 9 our citizens and neighborhoods. 10 I can't imagine a Philadelphia 11 in which communities and Councilmembers 12 have no controls over what happens in 13 their districts.

Please do not let the casinos be an exception to our deciding how, where, and even if development happens in this city. Many of us have repeatedly been told that casinos are a done deal here. I say they're not. They're far from a done deal. And, in fact, they're a bad deal. And your helping to pass Councilman DiCicco's resolutions will give us all a new deal. Please give him your support. And thank you. ) 3

Our 4 next speaker? 5 MR. McNULTY: Hi. I'm Joe 6 McNulty. I'm with New Kensington CDC, 7 and I'm here to speak directly to two of 8 the proposals that would amend the 9 Commercial Entertainment District in 10 order to minimize negative impacts from 11 any gaming facility near a residential 12 neighborhood. And these are namely 13 070008 and 070010. The first one, 08. This amendment would ensure that the City retain zoning control of any Commercial Entertainment District by eliminating any provisions that would undermine local zoning control. Philadelphia has already been forced to accept two licensed gaming facilities and was in danger of losing local zoning control under the auspices of State Bill 62. That the City narrowly escaped 345 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through losing this local zoning control is a testament to how delicate the situation is. If we as a city are forced to accept licensed gaming facilities for the economic good of the entire state, then we ought to, at the very least, have a say in how these facilities integrate themselves into our city. Moreover, the neighborhoods immediately adjacent to these gaming sites should have the most input on how the sites look, interact with local traffic, and affect the overall quality of life for those living closest to the casinos. There is a common perception that the citizens of Philadelphia, and particularly the residents of the adjacent neighborhoods, have had very little say on the placement and development of the casinos. Zoning control is the last line of defense the City has for determining how these sites will integrate into surrounding 346 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 neighborhoods. And public zoning 3 hearings would allow for citizen input 4 on design and other impacts of casinos. 5 Furthermore, City Council could 6 even amend the zoning ordinance in such 7 a way as to prohibit casinos altogether 8 as a permitted use in the Commercial 9 Entertainment District if it is 10 ultimately proven that casinos are not 11 in the best interests of the City. 12 It should be an obvious 13 decision for this committee. Home Rule dictates that Philadelphians have the ultimate say on what goes on in our city. While recognizing that gaming legislation presents an economic benefit to the entire state in the form of property-tax relief and to the City of Philadelphia in the form of wage-tax relief, new jobs, tax revenue and potential of increased tourism, the bulk of the burden of hosting a gaming facility should not be borne by a few 347 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 neighborhoods without their even having 3 a voice in shaping the development of 4 that facility. 5 Onto the next one, number 10. 6 This amendment to the Commercial 7 Entertainment District is crucial in 8 that it seeks to directly offset the 9 compound and negative impacts that will 10 befall any neighborhood forced to accept 11 two casinos and further addresses the 12 negative impacts of siting even a single 13 casino close to a residential area. As the Council knows well, the northern neighborhoods of Fishtown, Kensington, and Port Richmond along the Delaware River are adjacent to three of the five proposed sites for casinos, including one of the approved facilities, the SugarHouse Casino. There is a remote possibility, assuming that good cause is shown, that the license for one of the approved gaming facilities could become portable. It is also feasible that another casino 348 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 could be approved in the future. 3 Under such a scenario, the two 4 non-approved sites and possibly other 5 sites in this area could come under 6 consideration to accept a gaming 7 facility. In this case, the proposed 8 amendment to the Commercial 9 Entertainment District would prohibit 10 the gaming facilities from being sited 11 within one mile of each other.

12 As the I-95 Girard Avenue 13 interchange is about to be realigned in a process that PennDOT estimates to take no less than three years, including a newly planned temporary ramp to alleviate casino traffic and other redirected traffic, it would be unwise to allow two gaming facilities to be sited in as close a proximity as the three original northern-site proposals would demand. The expected influx of traffic from even one gaming facility has already rung alarm bells in the northern 349 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through neighborhoods, as the SugarHouse facility would likely bring a number of cars through neighborhood streets. The expected increase in traffic through these local streets would present a safety hazard to neighborhoods where children often play in the streets. It would also tax an infrastructure that is not designed to handle such increased traffic loads. The obvious extension of this argument is that two sites would affect the safety and infrastructure of local neighborhoods to an even greater extent and would likely cause traffic failure at many of the already-inefficient intersections on Delaware Avenue, as thousands of visitors are expected daily. Furthermore, the proposed temporary ramp during the reconstruction of the Girard Avenue interchange would be the main road for visitors using I-95 and would not likely be able to handle 350 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 the traffic loads brought in by two 3 casinos in the northern neighborhoods. 4 The siting of two casinos 5 within a mile of each other, without a 6 significant increase of resources, would 7 also present an acute drain on social 8 services, police enforcement, and 9 infrastructure elements such as sewers. 10 Just one Commercial 11 Entertainment District within a short 12 distance of a neighborhood will likely 13 tax such resources to an extent and will require effective planning to accommodate a casino. Once again, siting two casinos within a mile of each other would compound this effect and place the bulk of the burden on a limited geographic area. As for the other provisions of this ordinance, City Council should consider the prohibition or limitation of electrical signs that could cause a greater nuisance to adjacent 351 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 neighborhoods. Signs that are lit or a 3 mid light will likely have a spillover 4 effect into the nearby residential areas 5 if they are permitted to be situated 6 next to the road. 7 The committee should, 8 therefore, address both orientation and 9 design of any proposed signs to ensure 10 that adjacent neighborhood are given due 11 consideration, and any spillover effects 12 from light and noise or other forms of 13 nuisance are minimized. Next, the waterfront setback should be set at the level that will afford the greatest public realm, waterfront access, environmental protection and flood control, and allow for the alignment of a continuous trail along the riverfront, connecting residents to other current and proposed forms of riverfront development. For these reasons, New Kensington CDC urges City Council to adopt both of these resolutions in order 352 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 to minimize negative impacts on 3 neighborhoods nearest the casinos and to 4 afford a greater quality of life for 5 residents of these neighborhoods and, 6 indeed, all Philadelphians. ) 8

Thank 9 you very much. 10 Please identify yourself for 11 the record. 12

My name is Matt 13 Ruben, M-A-T-T, R-U-B-E-N. Thank you, Madam President and members of Council, for the opportunity to testify today. I am a resident of Northern Liberties Neighborhood of Philadelphia. I am former president and a current board member of the Northern Liberties Neighbors Association, or NLNA, which represents one of the two communities in whose boundaries the proposed SugarHouse Casino would be located. The NLNA is also a member of 353 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through the North Delaware Avenue Unity Coalition and the Delaware River Neighborhood Alliance, which collectively include more than civic 6 groups representing approximately 7 200,000 Philadelphians. 8 Personally, I have no moral 9 objection to gambling. I am also 10 opposed to casinos in Philadelphia. But 11 I'm not here to talk about my personal 12 view; I'm here to talk about the view of 13 the Northern Liberties Neighbors Association and the community it represents, which I speak for today. Northern Liberties is a community that is growing faster than perhaps any community in Philadelphia and perhaps any in the Commonwealth. From the last census to the next census, our population will double, if not triple. That is, as far as I know, fairly unprecedented in recent history in Philadelphia. We are not an anti-development 354 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 community. We are experiencing 3 tremendous growth, with approximately 4 3,000 new residential units under 5 construction or planned for the Delaware 6 Avenue corridor alone, with hundreds 7 more in the interior of the 8 neighborhood. 9 We have worked with developers 10 and successfully inked development deals 11 for projects with budgets as large as 12 $800 million, which is approximately 13 double the budget of most of the casino applicants. So we are very much pro-development. We want to see more people come into the city, and we are in favor of responsible development that will positively impact the city. And we are capable of taking a larger view. The NLNA is also the only river civic association that I'm aware of that has both officially opposed casinos and has tried, as part of the North Delaware Coalition, to negotiate with them. 355 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 And from that unique 3 perspective, I am here to tell that you 4 we are not in a place where it is 5 possible to properly protect our 6 interests and our quality of life at 7 this time, and that is why the bills 8 before you are so important. 9 Let me repeat that. Regardless 10 of whether you think casinos should be 11 stopped entirely or they should come 12 here with community protections, it is 13 my feeling, and I'm here to tell you, we are not in a position as communities to sufficiently protect our neighborhoods and our quality of life should the casinos be built. (Applause.)

We all know the conditions under which Act 71 was passed at the State level, and some of you up there have spoken eloquently about the extent to which the State legislature expressed its utter contempt for the people of Philadelphia and of 356 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through Pennsylvania from the beginning, when this last was passed, right through to frankly what has often been puzzling and, in some cases, appalling behavior by the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board. We have also talked a lot today about the questions of jobs. Will casino jobs, which the only applicant that we heard specific figures from was Pinnacle, and they said their jobs would average $19,000 a year. Would casino service jobs take away family wage jobs in the ports and elsewhere? Will they compete -- and if so, how much -- with locally owned restaurants, taverns in neighborhood commercial corridors. How much will crime increase in the vicinity, and will we have the resources to police it properly? Can a city as large as Philadelphia, with residential areas as dense as Philadelphia's, cope with 5,000 357 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 slot machine facilities covering 3 multiple acres right on their doorsteps? 4 We don't know the answers to 5 these questions, although a lot of us 6 certainly have our good guesses. 7 And the reason that we are in 8 this situation, the reason that we have 9 this dilemma and don't have the all of 10 the facts and are in no way prepared to 11 understand in an educated way what could 12 really happen, is because this situation 13 that we find ourselves in is the fruit of a poison tree, which is the process by which casinos have been conceived, legalized, and licensed in the State of Pennsylvania and, therefore, in the City of Philadelphia. No one has ever given us the ability to answer the basic questions, the most basic questions, that anyone in a democracy should be able to answer: Do you want slot machine casinos in your city? If so, where do you want them, and how do you want them implemented? 358 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 There are many ways to do this, 3 and we have fundamentally been denied 4 the right to have even the most basic 5 input into these most important 6 questions. 7 Some of the measures that 8 Councilman DiCicco has put before the 9 committee today would give the City 10 greater regulatory control over the 11 development of the two proposed casinos. 12 Such measures are certainly useful. The 13 City should have as much regulatory control as possible. But other measures before you would perform a much more valuable function. They would stop this process as it is in its tracks and confront the Commonwealth on the very heart of this process, the very roots of the clear and present danger Philadelphia's river communities, ports, traffic system, and social fabric now face because of the way this process has been conducted at the State level. 359 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 It is very important to 3 understand that casinos are not private 4 development. As has been made very 5 clear from the Governor's Office on 6 down, they are public policy. They were 7 legalized in order to raise revenues. 8 And, therefore, as public policy, the 9 public -- us -- and our elected 10 representatives at the City level should 11 demand proper input as we would into any 12 public policy that affects our daily 13 lives. (Applause.)

We're telling you today we want a meaningful say on whether casinos constitute a part of our future; and if so, how? We're urging you in the strongest possible terms to stand up for your constituents and say, We draw the line here. Not one more step, not one more inch until we have a process that respects the rights and prerogatives of citizens who live in a democracy. 360 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through The tree is rotten. Cut it dow. (Applause.)

Pass these bills, 6 and we can stand together for what is 7 right for our communities, our families, 8 and our great city. 9 Thank you. And I'm happy to 10 entertain any questions on any community 11 process or issue. 12 Thank you. 13

Thank you very much. (Applause.)

Just a moment, please. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Thank you very much, and thank you all for your testimony. I appreciate it. I do agree with your analysis of the rotten tree; I think it's quite well formed and very illustrative. 361 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through The tree, as we've said earlier, was planted in Harrisburg and is growing rotten fruit that we're having to deal with. What's -- we've heard your suggestions on what we should be doing here. What do you think are suggestions of what the legislature should be doing to try to help assist us in working together to either stop or reform the process?

Councilman, I just want to say that anything I say from here on end is my own personal view --

Absolutely.

-- and not representing my organization.

No, absolutely.

There's legislature that has been introduced in the State legislature that would strike all mention of Category 2 facilities in Act 71, and, I presume, would 362 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 13 potentially increase Category and Category licenses. I think that would be a concrete improvement on the quality of life of people in Philadelphia. While I certainly would prefer not to have casino development in Pennsylvania, I think putting 500 slots in areas that are already resort areas and putting slot machines in places that already have race tracks is certainly something that I would prefer than having stand-alone new slot facilities in the locations that are proposed for us or anywhere in our city. So I think that's one step. Of course, I would love to see the repeal of Act 71 and the whole thing start over. I think that if the question were put, as it was in Ohio on November 7th, there was a statewide referendum: Do you want slot casinos? No. It so happens it lost 57 to 43. But even if it didn't lose 363 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 here, people would at least have a voice 3 and there would be a public conversation about how to implement them. So I think those are just two examples of what could be done at the state level. And I'm sure there's a lot more. I mean, per se, I'd like to say the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board eliminated. I think that its formation constitutes an improper delegation of legislative authority by the State. And as I said in my testimony, I don't want to sound overly rhetorical, but it has been my experience as a citizen of this commonwealth and this city that the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board has acted in an utterly unprofessional incompetent, and imperious manner towards the citizen of Philadelphia since its inception. (Applause.)

I'd like to add that I think that the way that the 364 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through Gaming -- the State went about --

4 Mr. Thompson, just a minute, please. 5

Oh. 6

7 (Addressing Councilman Kenney.) Are you 8 finished with your line of questioning 9 of the witness? 10

No, I'll 11 entertain -- I think he's piggybacking 12 on Ruben's answer. 13

Very well.

I think anybody who looks at this process would agree that this was done backwards. The Gaming Board chose places and sites without investigating any of the sites. If you are going to put something somewhere, wouldn't you investigate the best site for this, taking everything into account, and then take requests for proposals for that site? 365 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through Here, the Gaming Board picked people and sites without even taking the sites into account. They don't even have a traffic study for all of Delaware Avenue. How insane is that. It's impossible to think that if you were putting responsible development out there, you wouldn't have a traffic study done for one of the main arteries out of and into Philadelphia and then you would put a place where 10 million people are going to go to a year? How crazy is that.

There was discussion earlier and testimony from SugarHouse Casino that the issue of riparian rights was critical to their development as it relates to the ability to provide potential amenities like access to the waterfront, pedestrian walkways, green space and the like. In the event that either the State preempts -- we do something here and the State preempts us again, or the 366 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through casino people sue and the court overturns us, what is your opinion on the status of riparian rights as it relates to the specific project in your neighborhood, the SugarHouse?

Well, I'm not sure 8 I fully -- well, I'm not -- I understand 9 the question. I'm not sure I understand 10 the specifics, but let me say this about 11 riparian rights. 12 And, again, I'm only speaking 13 for myself. If SugarHouse comes and is built, if they don't get riparian rights or if there is some arrangements for them to get riparian rights, personally, I would prefer a fully publicly-owned and controlled riverfront access in that area to one that a private developer leases and then, by its good graces, let's the public walk on. So, for example, I would certainly want a better project rather than a worse one, but there is no reason 367 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through that a casino operators has to have all of the riparian rights that it's asking for. I'd like to see a multi-acre public park in that area, and if a casino comes there, then there should be a wide path right through the grounds of the casino is on as a part of their arrangement so that the public gets to go its own public area and not something that's a part of a promenade that can be closed, as we've heard proposed, for weddings and other events and that is actually an accessory to a private food court and restaurant area but something that actually belongs to the public, because my understanding is, it's the public's land and it's the public right. So I think that even if casinos do come, I personally would not support them getting the riparian rights; or if they got them, I would not support them getting all of that land because some of it at least should belong totally to the 368 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 public and should be under the exclusive 3 control of the public because it's our 4 land and it's our rights. 5

If riparian 6 rights were an issue of the SugarHouse 7 development and it comes to fruition, 8 will you have concerns about the massing 9 of the building or the setback of the 10 building or the parking issues relative 11 to the site if it's affected by the 12 riparian rights and their ability or 13 inability to obtain them?

We have concerns about that now, but I think A.J. wants to speak on that.

I could say I think I'm probably the only one on the panel who remembers sneaking down past the waterfront restaurant when it was down there and being on the riverfront. And I think my daughter who's two, I'd like to have her to be the first generation of Fishtowners in a long time that didn't have to sneed through 369 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through weed-choked lot to get to the river. And if this happens, I think the City Council and State Representative O'Brien and everybody else should do their best to make this as public a place to go as possible, because if you look at the riverfront now, you have Penn Treaty Park, which is, you know, on the rebound, but it's pretty small compared to the amount of waterfront space that we have. And if we don't guarantee some access to the river, we're going to have het another generation of people in Philadelphia, and especially in my neighborhood, whose only connection to the neighborhood is a little bit of Penn Treaty Park, and they deserve better, I think.

So based on both your -- the way you approach the issues, you're not out of hand dismissing the acquisition or use of riparian rights for development? 370 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2

Whatever gets people to the river is what I want.

I would like to see 5 another type of development besides 6 casinos in that area, and should that 7 type of development come, I would expect 8 that our city and state officials will 9 work with us and together with each 10 other to ensure that other better kind 11 of development would substantive public 12 access and use on the river. 13 (Applause.)

No, no. 15 What I'm trying --

For example, if the RiverWalk site is publicly owned landed that the Penn's Landing Corporation land-banked for many, many years, and now it's eleven acres, nine of it on land that could be used for a public use, and I hope that the Penn's Landing Corporation will change its policy of land-banking and allow true public use. And I'd love to see the same 371 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through kind of approach taken in a cohesively planned manner on the SugarHouse site and the Foxwoods site so that you could have mixed use combined with public use, jobs and construction, commercial activity, maybe some residential, and something for people to actually enjoy when they got to the river instead of gigantic block-busting 5,000-slot machine, 4,000-parking garage structures right on our river. (Applause.)

What I'm trying to assess is not your position or the -- not your organization's position, is that if it affects -- if the alternative uses of the riparian rights affects the massing and the look of the building, that's something you'll have to wait and see what happens and have an opinion about that then, or do you have an opinion about that now?

My organization would have to see alternative renderings 372 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through in such a situation.

Okay. 4

I can tell you 5 that. 6

All right. 7 Thank you. 8

Thank 9 you very much. 10 Thank you, gentlemen. 11 PANEL: Thanks. 12 MR. McPHERSON: The next panel 13 consists of: Ahmeenah Young, Pennsylvania Convention Center Authority; Wanda Paul and jack Ferguson from the PA Convention and Visitors Bureau; Deborah Diamond, Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corporation; Valerie Ferguson, Bill 20 Walsh, Ed Grose, Philadelphia Hotel Association. (Witnesses come forward.)

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon. 373 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2

Thank you for your patience. Please identify yourself for the record.

Good afternoon. I 6 appreciate the opportunity to speak to 7 Councilmembers today. My name is Bill 8 Walsh, and I am the general manager of 9 the Philadelphia Marriott Hotel. 10 And I'm not here to speak to 11 you today as an individual but rather as 12 an officer in the Greater Philadelphia 13 Hotel Association that represents 85 hotels in our region. I'm here today to urge you not to support the ordinances that have been introduced that will either delay or prevent casino development. Over the past several years, the Philadelphia Gaming Advisory Board has worked with a great vision to compile a comprehensive report that covers every facet of the gaming initiative in our city. This includes everything from site expansion to casino design. It 374 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through takes into account the social and economic impact that gaming would have on our community. The revenues that would be generated by gaming in Philadelphia have been well documented. According to the task force, two proposed casinos would generate approximately $685,000 in revenue during their first full year of operation alone. This would be able to reduce the City's wage tax by 13 percent for our residents and 8 percent for our nonresidents. Additionally, the City would receive between and $30 million 18 annually in host fees, with more than 19 7 million in dollars of that going back 20 into our Philadelphia school system. 21 In addition to the tax savings 22 for residents, two casinos will create 23 over 1500 real casino jobs and between 24 2 and 3,000 new jobs in ancillary 25 operations from casinos from the growth 375 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 13 and other industries that service patrons and businesses that support casinos. The over 1,000 new construction jobs that will be created during the building of these facilities will pay between 30 and $34 million in wages. The indirect construction-related jobs will provide employment to almost 1500 individuals and pay roughly $73 million. At this moment, I'd like to deviate from my prepared remarks. Earlier as I sat here, I heard some testimony that said that the creation of jobs and development from casinos was not a reality. Being somewhat of a curious individual, I took the opportunity to excuse myself from the room, and I have hotels that are located in both the areas up in Connecticut near the Foxwoods site and up near Niagara Falls, where the SugarHouse site is. Both of those hotels report 376 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 that their occupancies are at an 3 all-time high and that both environments 4 are proposing and considering 5 development of future hotels. That, to 6 me, lends credence to the theory that 7 there is further growth and development 8 that can come from the advent of 9 casinos. 10 However, what I want to talk 11 about, I think, that has the most 12 potential today is that with the revenue 13 generated through gaming, there is one critical factor to consider when deciding upon the proposed legislation, and that is the impact it would have on one of the city's largest economic engines, that being the convention business. The expansion of the Philadelphia Convention Center is absolutely necessary in order to maintain economic growth, development of new business, creation of new jobs, and providing to the City a vitality it 377 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 needs to remain a top destination in the 3 United States. 3 billion. And that's just on the 11 mere promise of an expanded center. 12 These are real numbers. 13 Unfortunately, we have also turned away approximately the same amount of money because our current center has already been booked, or the meeting that wants to come here is not able to come to our convention center 'cause it's not large enough to hold it. Once expanded, it will be projected that more than 2,000 hotel rooms would be needed resulting in more than 1500 newly-created real jobs.

The expansion of the center will occur only if gaming can come to 378 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through Philadelphia. Gaming is the primary funding mechanism, and without it, this project will not happen. The revenues created through gaming in Philadelphia are the catalyst that would spark further growth in development just -- not just in a few select areas of the city, but for the entire city. I believe that any proposal that delays or prevents gaming would not be prudent and would have a negative effect for our city for a long time. In closing, I would like to recall everybody's attention to the October 15th article in National Geographic that named Philadelphia one of America's next great cities. I ask you not to support these proposals, and I believe that that would impede the vision by not allowing us all to grow to reach our fullest potential. Thank you. ) 379 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2

Thank you very much. Good afternoon. Welcome. Thank you for your patience. Identify yourself for the record.

Good afternoon. My 8 name is Wanda Paul. I'm senior vice 9 president for the Philadelphia 10 Convention and Visitors Bureau. 11 The Philadelphia Convention and 12 Visitors Bureau is a membership 13 organization, and 85 hotels are a vital part of that membership. When the idea of gaming was initially brought forth and discussed, we serve a concierge, bell service, front-desk personnel to of those 19 membership hotels. What we found was 20 that guests' requests for arrangements 21 were made to Atlantic City ranged from 22 percent to 40 percent -- as high as 40 23 percent of all questions regarding 24 information for nighttime activities 25 each year. 380 1 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 13 This means there are huge dollars, and those are real dollars going out of state for gaming, plus other expenditures such as shopping and dining. And in some cases, it actually may mean someone checking out of the hotel in Philadelphia to go to Atlantic City or Delaware. We want revenue to stay in Philadelphia, meaning more jobs for the citizens of Philadelphia. And speaking of jobs, the Philadelphia Convention and Visitors Bureau and our Multicultural Fair Congress have already met with one of the casinos in regard to the importance of diversity and the creation and operation of these new destinations. Many convention attendees and their spouses as well as tourists already leave Philadelphia for the night, traveling to neighboring Atlantic City or Delaware play, where they the slots, dine in restaurants, see a show, 381 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through or shop on the Boardwalk. Why not have them spend that time and discretionary dollars in Philadelphia. And we haven't even mentioned the impact the slots could have on attracting new tourists to Philadelphia, including motor-coach tour operators and our fast-growing international visitors, now at an all-time high. We support the value-added attraction of the casinos as an additional entertainment option for the City of Philadelphia. Thank you. (Applause.)

Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record.

Thank you. Good afternoon, Madam President and City Councilmembers. I'm Jack Ferguson, the executive vice president of the Philadelphia Convention and Visitors 382 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through Bureau. The Philadelphia Convention and Visitors Bureau is the official tours and promotional agency for the City of Philadelphia and the primary sales and marketing organization for the Philadelphia Convention Center. We generate economic impact and growth by increasing the City's hotel occupancies and revenues while affecting all segments of the hospitality industry. Philadelphia hospitality's package is unique and with the Pennsylvania Convention Center as its hub. In most cities, convention business makes up about 27 percent of all hotel rooms consumed each year. But in Philadelphia, the convention and meeting business accounts for 40 percent of all of the rooms that are consumed. And Philadelphia has a solid market mix of leisure and business travel as well. One of the greatest 383 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 attributes that Philadelphia offers is 3 the variety of free-time choices for 4 convention and tourism visitors when 5 they come to our city. The selections 6 we have currently are top-notch, but 7 they can always be enhanced as well as 8 improved. 9 Philadelphia is rich in the 10 history with new attractions that 11 Independence Park offers. Philadelphia 12 is second to none as a destination for 13 the birthplace of the nation. Culturally, Philadelphia offers a wide variety of choices. Philadelphia's theater district can be experienced on the Avenue of the Arts, providing an array of entertainment. Philadelphia is in the big leagues when it comes to sports as well. You can just ask any Philadelphia sports fan. Night life abounds in Old City, South Street, Penn's Landing, Rittenhouse Row, and in the hip area of 384 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 Manayunk. 3 As a convention and tourism 4 destination, Philadelphia provides our 5 guests with great choices. Providing 6 choices ensures Philadelphia's continued 7 growth in its ability to attract 8 meetings, conventions and visitors to 9 hotels, restaurants, and venues, and to 10 keep the city with a fresh, new, and 11 exciting position. 12 To remain competitive as a 13 first-tiered city and to have the ability to attract and rebook conventions, we have to have the visitors return again and again. Philadelphia must continue to provide more choices as we expand the Pennsylvania Convention Center. The two new casinos will expand our nightlife offerings as well as customers that are -- as well as our customers always look for, and the casinos will develop the waterfront to become a wonderful visitor destination. 385 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 When the casinos were first 3 being discussed, the PCVB and the Center 4 City District hosted a series of forums 5 to educate the hospitality and business 6 community and the local media on the 7 impact that the casinos have had in 8 other destinations and what they might 9 mean to Philadelphia. 10 Those findings were overall 11 positive, and it is why the Philadelphia 12 Convention and Visitors Bureau supports 13 Pennsylvania's desire to bring casinos to Philadelphia. Thank you.

Thank you very much. (Applause.)

I just have one question for this. The issue relative to funding of the Convention Center expansion, I kind of understand and get, and I don't mean to put you on the spot, but could you tell me the top-rated restaurants outside of the 386 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through casinos in Atlantic City? Could you give me a name of a top-rated restaurant outside of a casino in Atlantic City?

Probably Docks or 6 Knife and Fork in Atlantic City. 7

But that's 8 like about it, right? Everything else 9 is inside of the casino, right? 10

Well, they have a 11 few other -- 12

I've been 13 there, and those two places are decent places and Chef (indiscernible), but it's not an overwhelming restaurant town outside the casino. What -- what -- if the goal of the casinos is to maximize the machines by keeping people in front of them, how does that enhance our nightlife in Old City or -- I don't understand -- I don't understand that comment, I really don't. (Applause.) (Cheers.)

Let me 387 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through just -- if we're looking to maximize revenues for the City, for the State, for tax reduction, for Convention Center expansion, I can buy all that, I really can.

Mm-hmm. 8

I can't see 9 or fathom how a restaurant or a bar 10 outside a casino benefits from 5,000 11 people sitting at -- from 10,000 people 12 sitting at 10,000 machines. I don't 13 know how that enhances it.

I think, to answer your question from the standpoint of the visitor, the visitor, he or she comes in and stays in the hotels, goes out for dinner, and the dining experiences all over the city are wonderful.

Yeah.

After they dine, what do they do? That's the question. And that's where Philadelphia falls short. 388 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2

Wait a minute. If I'm going to -- and we could have this debate all day, and I know it's been a long day, but if I'm going to a destination point, all right, and I have a choice, and I'm coming from Ohio or Texas or New York State, and I'm going to come and stay in a hotel for a weekend or a week, am I going to the Bellagio, or am I going to Delaware and Reed? I mean, if I'm going to go to a hotel, I'm going to go to a hotel and stay there and gamble there. I'm not going to come to the Marriott and then get in a cab and go gamble at -- when 60 miles away are some of the nicest hotels -- not that we don't have nice hotels -- and some of the more expansive gaming opportunities like table games and other things that if I'm traveling -- if I'm going to get on JetBlue or AirTran and I'm going to fly into this region to gamble and to stay 389 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2 overnight, I'm going to Atlantic City. 3

But there's -- I 4 think there's one other component to 5 consider, Councilman. 6 That may be true of individual 7 transient leisure travelers -- 8

Right. 9

-- but when you 10 talk about conventions, convention 11 people will spend multiple nights in the 12 hotel and want to experience various 13 nightlife activities. The casino environment might only be one of those evenings. It might be a night in another venue, so I don't believe they're going to go there every night; it's just another alternative to them.

I'm just having trouble understanding why a conventioner from Texas, and he or she wants to spend a gaming night, would not get in a shuttle and go to Atlantic City and gamble where they can gamble on 390 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through other things. I've seen -- I've seen -- I don't go to casinos a lot, I don't really gamble, I don't -- it's not something that I like. But I see what gets off the bus at Atlantic City for the slot area. It is -- it is not your high roller. It's your basic senior citizens and, you know, working people. I don't see -- I don't get it, that whole -- this whole argument about that it attracts the nightlife. I think in some ways, like Councilman DiCicco said --

It's just another option. We're not suggesting that --

It enhances the nightlife.

It enhances it. It's not a cure-all for the City of Philadelphia; it's just another entertainment option.

Right. 391 2/21/07 RULES - Bills 070006, 08 through 2

You know, there will be a night where they'll go out gambling, there'll be a night where they go to the Franklin Institute Museum. Conventioneers don't necessarily -- that's one of the attractions Philadelphia currently has. They don't necessarily want their conventioneers going to Atlantic City; they want them in Philadelphia. They have an option of spending a few hours in the casino after they dine, after their sessions are over. It's not like taking a hop to Atlantic City and coming back.

Okay. (Applause.)

All I'm saying is it's pretty close. Atlantic City is pretty close.