civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - December 1, 2020

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Dec 1, 20208h 28m

I get it. That's why I asked that question. I didn't ask you about specifically the way you did, but I just don't understand who is back there, other than people on Curtin Street, who are quite a distance away from that brick wall, and unless they leave their house and walk across that driveway, and then into that section that looks like employee parking, I can't imagine.

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Great notice of this. And we also sent out prior to the November 16th RCO meeting a full set of exhibits to Mr. Bonney. I didn't send it to Mr. DeMarco because I did not know he was involved because his RCO, again, is not listed as an RCO covering this area.

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So I didn't send it to him, but I did send it to Mr. Bonney. He's had it. He knows what we're about. We've discussed this. I told Mr. Bonney it was our intention to go ahead, especially because we've had two different attempts at an RCO meeting.

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And we at least wanted to start with some of our testimony because we have six witnesses, and this is going to be a lengthy case.

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Even though it's only a special exception, it is not a major variance like Councilman O'Neill's project was.

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This is a special exception.

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We have a very low burden to meet to be able to get the special exception granted.

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So it is totally different from Councilman O'Neill's case up in the northeast on a very large.

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This is a 2,600-square-foot facility inside of a 22,000-square-foot facility.

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This is not an acre-and-a-half apartment complex like Councilman O'Neill's was.

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Yeah, I understand that.

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I understand that.

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I understand that, and I only was using Councilman O'Neill's case as a reference point as to how we've been handling rather than here and hold.

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and we understood i understand at least that this case is going to be rather lengthy that we get

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some of the testimony because i believe mr bonnie in his statement earlier this morning said they

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weren't even aware of what was being proposed here or something like that and if i misquoted you i

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apologize but i have a suggestion i have a suggestion that might allow us to all get what

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we want here um and i you know mr demarco mentioned it if you want to make the best use

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of everyone's time my suggestion is that we allow the applicant to go forward today with presenting

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their witnesses but that we hold our cross-examination until the next session that was

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what excuse me this is this is sharon saletta i was going to suggest the same thing mr bonnie and

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that mr mattione agree that he will return with his witnesses in order for that to happen right

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i thought we agreed to that this morning that's what all right so we're all agreeing thank you

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Thank you. Thank you.

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Now, I have, unfortunately, one other matter that I'd like to bring up before we start, and that is that we are sort of, I'm letting you know now that we are contesting the accuracy of the referral.

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We believe that this, in fact, should be a variance case, not a special exception case.

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And so, therefore, what we would like from the board, in order to make that argument, we would like the board to issue a subpoena to L&I to require the L&I examiner to attend the next session or whenever our case starts.

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This is Sharon Saleta. We don't usually have to subpoena them. They will agree to come, but we would ask that before we request that, that you submit something in writing and copy all parties, laying out the grounds for your position.

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This is Sharon Salota.

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We don't usually have to.

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Should that request be coming from the board or should it be coming from the attorney representing the opponents?

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well i think mr bonnie is asking if he can um challenge the refusal yeah i think that he is

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entitled to do so yes but yes if the board would subpoena he's asking if the board would subpoena

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representatives from l and i i mean i don't know if that's within our power to do that or not i

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don't have any problem if we do but it isn't it is within our power but it generally isn't necessary

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I will contact Mr. Reuter at the law department,

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ask him to have someone here at the next hearing.

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If for some reason he opposes that,

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then we will issue a subpoena.

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Does that satisfy you, Mr. Bonney?

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Yes, I can put my request in writing tomorrow.

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But what we also want is not just the person,

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but also the file.

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And so, you know, beforehand.

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And I think that's standard fare,

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but, you know, we would like to see their file

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and notes on this before the testimony of course i'll request that of them too and i will um

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get them to confirm in writing and send that to you so you'll have before the next hearing

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the protocol is though we'll ask them to adhere to that that's all i have thank you

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i just want to note anything provided to uh mr bonnie i would expect a copy

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It will be through all three of them.

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Absolutely.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Mr. Medione.

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With that, are we ready to proceed, Mr. Chair?

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Yeah, and I just want to remind everyone that we're still in the 930 list.

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We have a two o'clock list.

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So I know this is important, and we always expected it to be rather lengthy,

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but we hope we can get as much in prior to two o'clock.

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I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yes. It would have to be prior to 1-1-15.

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You need the break, right? Yes. The staff has to take lunch. And if I could ask a special request

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to all attorneys to please not speak over each other so that the record can be clean for the

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court reporter. I thank you kindly. Okay. Thank you for reminding us. Staff needs to have their

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break, and we're required to make sure that happens. Please proceed, Mr. Mattione.

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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, I'm Michael Mattione, and I'm representing City Turf Club,

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our subsidiary of Parks Casino and the operator of the Parks Race and Sports Book,

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which presently is located at 700 Packer Avenue. I have six witnesses today to present.

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Whether we get to them is another issue, but I have six witnesses.

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Park Sportsbook has entered into a lease for a small 2,600-square-foot area

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in the existing Chickie and Pete Sports Bar at 1526 Packer Avenue.

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Their goal is to relocate their existing sportsbook there inside of Chickies and Pete's.

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The use is classed as an assembly and entertainment use in the zoning code

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and is permitted use as a special exception at 1526 Packer Avenue.

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A special exception is a conditionally permitted use so long as the applicant shows that the use

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will not cause greater congestion or other harm as outlined in the zoning code than what is

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expected to be caused by the use. Importantly, this is not a variance and no showing of unnecessary

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hardship is required for this project to move forward. Presently, the park sportsbook occupies

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36,000 square feet of space

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at 700 Packer Avenue.

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Again, they are seeking to relocate

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into a 2,600 square

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foot area

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in the rear of the existing

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Chickies and Peets.

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Excuse me.

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And there's our tax clearance certificate

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as well.

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This is a

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plan showing the existing Chickies

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and Peets. It's

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about 22,000, 23,000

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square feet, and this little portion

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back here is the 2,600-square-foot area where the sportsbook would be relocated.

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This would be an added amenity to Chickies and Pete's, which will help Chickies and Pete's

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maintain its status as the best sports bar in America.

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Chickies and Pete's has had its business adversely impacted by the pandemic, as many others have.

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They are presently closed to indoor dining.

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and also new competition, including the soon-to-open live casino,

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which will open a sports book and have 24-7 casino gambling right down the street at 900 Packer Avenue.

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casino gambling right down the street at 900 Packer Avenue.

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This application will not bring slot machines, table games, or any other casino features to

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Chickie and Pete's, as only a casino may offer those type of operations. Again, this will be

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just in a rear room, only 600 square feet inside the existing Chickies and Pete's.

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In the space being converted right now, there are presently 138 restaurant seats in this area.

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This will be reduced, if this is approved, to 59 seats, comprised of 27 lounge seats, 20 dining seats, and 12 viewing seats, greatly reducing the number of patrons and overall capacity in this space.

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If approved, there will be nearly 80 fewer seats in the sportsbook than in the present space where the restaurant and bar operates.

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There will not be any separate outdoor entrance to the sportsbook.

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The only way in will be if you come in through Chickies and Pete's and into a separate entrance

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area into the sports book. The sports book will only operate when Chickies and Pete's is open.

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It will not be a 24-7 operation. It will have its own security personnel. Inside Chickies and Pete's

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is required under the Game and Control Act, in addition to Chickies and Pete's already existing

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personnel. In addition to this, we do have 60 letters, which I submitted last night,

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of support from neighbors for this project moving forward. With this overview, what I'd like to do

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next is call on Pete Chiraki as my first witness, if he could be unmuted.

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I'm sorry. Could you repeat the name of your first witness?

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Chiroki. Chiroki. Chiroki, correct.

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So we don't look for them. They would have to put their hand

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up in order for us to reach out to them. Okay, he told me he was on.

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I have him. He's been unmuted.

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Pete?

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Good afternoon, Mr. Chiroki. Would you please identify yourself with a record? Spell your last name for the sonographer and then I'll swear you in.

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Sir, you have to unmute yourself.

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my name is peter chiroki c-i-a-r-r-o-c-c-h-i

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we're infirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth

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i do please proceed mr mattione thank you mr chairman uh pete what is your relationship to

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chickies and peats i'm the president and ceo

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and how long has chickies and pete's operated its restaurant and sports bar in south philadelphia

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we opened in 1977 but we've been open in south philadelphia since 2003

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and what ties do you have to the south philadelphia area most of my family members live

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in in south philadelphia we're the only ones that moved to northeast uh i've been in south philadelphia

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all my life most of my friends are down there that's just part of the neighborhood and could

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you describe to the board your current business at 1526 popper avenue uh it's a restaurant sports

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bar uh crab house and you signed a sublease with the parks race and sports book what will parks

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race and sports book be bringing to chickies and pete um we will be putting in a boutique

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high-end sports book, which will only take up 2,600 square feet, including offices in the back

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of Chickie and Pete's. And I will add, we're already a sports bar. So the consumer that comes

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in watches sports and to open up a sports book, renting out to the Parks Casino, renting out that

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spot would be great for us because it would be an amenity to Chickie and Pete's. So not only can

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you watch sports, but you can bet on sports. It's not like the same customers would be

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in a sports book that would be in a sports bar. And do you already have any working relationships

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with the Parks Casino? We've been with Parks Casino for 11 years up on Street Road, and we

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also have a sports wagering at our Egg Harbor Township location on the Black Horse bike for

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last two years. And is that Egg Harbor Township location that's similar but different but similar

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to what you'd be bringing here? That's correct not not high-end like this this is much more

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high-end first class plus that's not all sports betting that's just uh horses.

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all sports betting that's just uh horses. And where inside of Chickie's and Pete's will this

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be uh located? I'm gonna show the the floor plan. So if you came in the front door

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um of Chickie and Pete which is on the corner where the signs are posted um you would walk straight

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back to the you'll see that there's two curves there that's the back doors those doors take

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you to the sportsbook. So you'll have to enter through the front door of Chickie and Pete's.

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There's no way you will know that that sportsbook is in there from the outside. You only know by

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coming in the Chickie and Pete's. You can't get to it unless you come in.

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Let me interrupt you. Is that the area, I'm not sure if my other board members have ever been

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there, but I've been there several many times. Is that the area where fundraisers sometimes

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were being held that's that's correct and those rooms will be moved to the plate two area but

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that's exactly right uh chairman thank you um we uh we do have some park parks representatives

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here as well but can you describe from your perspective what this proposal will mean to

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chickies and peats well as you know and you mentioned that uh you know xfinity live opened

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And then they're opening up the live casino up the street from us.

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And they take a lot of business away because we can't,

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we don't have the money that they have to build these palaces and,

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or the size.

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But what we do that will help us compete, keep people working,

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give Chickie and Pete's continue to be the number one sports bar in North

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America. You know, a lot of people, when you go into a sports bar,

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you see guys on phones and you think maybe they're on Facebook.

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They're not on Facebook. I can tell you what they're doing.

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They're betting because now it's legal.

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Now you can bet from your phone, from your house, from your bathroom,

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anywhere you want. So it's not like they can't wager now,

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but this will help them for the people who are from a out of town tourism.

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When they come to the city of Philadelphia to watch a game,

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like a lot of people travel to go to see Eagles games out of town or Phillies games out of town

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when they come here also when they come here they can't make a bet on their on their draft

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king or their fan duel because that only works in the city they're from that's the way they set up

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the accounts so they either have to set up a new account which is ridiculous to do in another city

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or walk into a place like Chickie's and Pete's

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that'll have a sports book, make your wager,

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go to your game, enjoy your fans,

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cheer for your team, come back

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and hopefully they get paid.

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Then they could buy a drink or have a sandwich

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at Chickie and Pete's and continue on their way.

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But I just think it's going to be somewhere.

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And I think it's a perfect marriage.

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It's a perfect complement,

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a sports bar with a sports book.

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Let me ask a question. Will there be, how many employees, will you be increasing the number of employees?

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We will be. Let me say right now, as of right now, in year 2020, we have 318 employees. And this is a rough year.

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I'm speaking about specifically for this, for the Packer Avenue site.

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yes not only will they be hiring more employees for back there but they will be

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union employees the tellers and so on are those employees who has the jurisdiction are they

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your employees are they parks employees or the combination of the two the okay the um we're we're

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just the renting that area to parks we're a landlord okay we will have our servers can go

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back and serve drinks or food to those to their people that's part of the deal so we can make some

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money but if their workers all their tellers all the people that work for the uh for the uh sports

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book are their employees our employees just has a cross where they can come in and get a drink

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for someone or a uh something to eat and would you happen to know how many employees that would be

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Our amount of employees won't change.

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