Committee Hearing, September 17, 1997

Yes. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: And you heard the testimony glowingly -- I mean everybody speaks glowingly -- about New York.

Because the flip side, because the underside, of these policies have not been discussed nationally. And it is only now that we are even beginning to break into national media. We had a rally in Washington, D.C., this weekend, where we brought a number of families from New York whose children have been killed, whose loved ones have been killed, whose families have been beaten by police. And for the first time we got national attention to this issue. That's the flip side of this policy. That's this policy gone bad. And let me just read this statement. Because one of the authors of The Broken Window Theory -- CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Can the policy be 208 RESOLUTION 970176 done in a correct manner?

Well, that's the issue. That's the issue. Because we have no problem with computerized targeting of crime. And we have no 7 problem with tough enforcement of crime. But there is a difference between tough enforcement of crime and wholesale violation and suspension of civil rights. And that is one of the challenges for all leaders. And it has been raised here a number of times. If we don't want to move in the direction of totalitarianism, then we have to pay a lot of attention and not just disregard these as like civil liberty, you know, quacks. These are our young people. We are being asked -- I have an 18-year-old son. We are being asked to abandon one kind of fear for another kind of fear. So now I no longer have to worry that the main thing that could happen to my son when he goes out is that he will be caught in a cross-fire between drug gangs, because that's less of a problem 209 RESOLUTION 970176 in New York now, and that's wonderful. Now I have to worry that he will be caught by policemen who see a young man and a woman of color, with their baggy pants and their hat on sideways. And the first thing they will see is a potential perpetrator, go over to him and say, "Let me see your identification, and what are you doing here." CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: I was watching CNBC the other day. Phillipe Luciano was on with Charles Groden from Crown Heights, and he was interviewing three African-American young men. And at one point Phillipe asked them, he said, "When you see a police car coming, what is it that you do?" And the three individuals, they all did the same thing. First they took their pockets, pants pockets, they took them and turned them inside out, and they raised their shirts, like that. I don't understand that.

It is that routine. That's how routine it has become in New York City. It is that routine. 210 RESOLUTION 970176 And we have a -- CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: That's for searching. So that they are telling the cops, "We don't have anything."

So that if they empty their pockets, show they have nothing, they have no 8 gun, they have nothing in their pockets. Because routinely the police will come out, go over to you and start patting you down. So that's to stop them from doing that. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: That's really powerful, a black kid in Crown Heights and a kid in 110th and Lexington will do the same things.

Yes. Well, let me tell you this: There is a racial factor in how this law is applied. Because white kids in the city are not rousted the same way. They are not arrested at the same rate, they are not stopped at the same rate, and they are not harassed by the police at the same rate. So there is a racial factor that plays in here, and we can't ignore that. One of the authors of The Broken 211 RESOLUTION 970176 Windows Theory recently was disturbed by what's happening, especially in New York City. His name is George Kelling, and he is a Rutgers University professor. He helped Bratton implement the theory in New York. And this is what he said -- and I included this article in the packet that I gave you -- "There is an enormous potential for abuse," he says. "He criticizes departments that encourage cops to demand IDs from residents or conduct neighborhood drug sweeps, indiscriminately stopping and frisking people, too often involving excessive force." This is The Broken Windows Theory taken over the other side. But this is the main danger. Because what we're saying is that there is inadequate training, there is inadequate supervision, that many of the police officers in New York City, at least, that are patrolling innercity communities come from segregated communities on the fringes of the city, in the suburbs, who don't understand the culture of the people, who bring with them the fears and the racial anxieties of the 212 RESOLUTION 970176 larger society, and view people of color as potential perpetrators before they view them as human beings. So that this approach -- because The Broken Window Theory, one of the principles was, it can't work unless you have community policing along with it. Unless you have a collaborative relationship between the police department and the community, you can't do this targeted computerized targeting. Because every act of police abuse undermines the community's ability to collaborate with that police department. So that the 90,000 juvenile arrests, four-fifths of which probably should not have occurred -- CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Is the community not integrated in terms of the community policing?

There is no community policing in New York; that policy was abandoned. That policy was abandoned. The money is not for community policing; the money is for quality-of-life street sweeps. 213 RESOLUTION 970176 And officers receive promotions based on the number of arrests they make, not based on the number of crimes they prevent, because that is one of the principles of the -- CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: So you heard that we have Town Watch programs.

Forget the Town Watch. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: So those Town Watch programs are not integrated into the overall aspect?

Forget Town Watch programs. No. No. 15 CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: We are going to have Commissioner Bratton on the 21st.

Well, you know, I was hoping that Commissioner Safir would be here today. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: No. He is concerned with what is happening with a Haitian person.

I know. I may get a chance to speak on that. But let me say this finally, because your question is why do people support this. The streets are safer, but there are a number of reasons 214 RESOLUTION 970176 why they are safer. Many of the people who comment and study this will also tell you that in New York City, one of the reasons why drug violence has stopped is because it is already shaken out, there are no 7 longer competing drug gangs. The gangs that are the drug gangs now control their areas, and they have moved inside. They are not fighting for corners anymore. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: And the drug is different, you said.

And the drug is different, but the drugs are still there. Because the phenomena is that we are arresting street-level users; we are not arresting the distributors and the dealers. But there are a number of factors that need to be taken into consideration. Because the danger in the application of this theory in New York City is that everything is seen as a police action solution. We would say that, as important as a police action, are the strengthening of all of the factors that I said, the gang truce, the community 215 RESOLUTION 970176 initiatives against drugs, the church-based initiatives against drugs. All of those are extremely important. You can't say that you are going to fight violence and crime and cut funding for after-school programs. In New York City, they have been practically eliminated. You can't eliminate all of the programs where the kids are supposed to go. And then, when they are sitting on the corner, arrest them and harass them because they are sitting on the corner. Where are they supposed to go? They have no place to go. And that's the dilemma that people are facing. So in New York City parents -- and you can speak to any parents of teenagers in New York City -- they worry about the police and their children. That is the worry that has replaced other worries. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: My daughter lives in Manhattan, and she worries. She is an actress. You know her. She has told me she worries about the police. 216 RESOLUTION 970176

Okay. So let me just -- well, for the sake of time, let me just say, I attached to my presentation some recommendations for changes. Because the balance between fighting crime and protecting civil and human rights is a fine balance. And it is a challenge all the time to figure out how best to address that. And we attached some recommendations for things that could be done both at the local level, at the state level, and at the federal level. So I'm not going to speak too much about that. Perhaps I could just let you ask me some questions. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Do you have anything to say? I think my thing -- and I think I have asked you the questions as you went along -- is the issue that worries me about this whole thing. That's why I call it Giulianization. And it worries me because it comes from a perspective of law enforcement, without taking into consideration the actual social aspects 217 RESOLUTION 970176 that go into creating criminal activity, in a sense. And that, on that quality of life, as we come to be seen as poor people because they have no other alternative and they're out there. And if a person that is a cook in a restaurant is not safe, that worries me. But it also worries me -- and I think Councilwoman Verna and the other folks -- we went through that, and we paid a lot of money in terms of the city budget. And if you heard anything about the City of Philadelphia's debt, we don't have $70 million to be able to pay because of police mistakes. We don't even have a couple of million dollars to be able to pay. But we are paying already. So I appreciate you coming down. I really will keep you abreast of what we're doing. I wish more of the folks from the police department, and even the media, would have stayed to hear. Because they would have heard another message about the same system. And, hopefully, in the next hearing 218 RESOLUTION 970176 we'll have a couple of the Democratic mayoral candidates here from New York City, because they want to carry the message. And one of them, Sal Alborese, an Italian-American from Brooklyn -- who I have become friends with over the phone, and we share many of the same political philosophies as such -- said to me that he was going to come down, but the primary in New York just ended, so he is like decompressing, but that he will make it on the 21st. Because we want to hear about what are the different viewpoints from all of these cities. And we are bringing some people from Boston, so that we can hear that. Because I think if change is going to happen, it is going to have to be pushed from this body. If we are going to get some change, and we are going to get the right change, it is going to have to be done by us in City Council. So I appreciate it, Richie and the young lady and the man, for your coming down. And we have been through that here in Philadelphia in the '70s, and we don't want it to come back again. But we want to be able to get rid 219 RESOLUTION 970176 of the street-corner drugs. And the next people that are coming on, Sister Carol and Miriam and Will Gonzalez and other folks, can speak to that sort of thing. So if you could stay, I would appreciate it. ) CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Miriam. Charles, Will, Miriam, Sister Carol, why don't you all come up at the same time. And, Charles, come up. Will. And Gregory Allen, Joe White. Why don't you come up. Okay. Charles, you can begin, and then, followed by Will, then we can go down the line. I just want to give everybody a sense that we're reaching the end. CHARLES P. : Good evening, Councilman Ortiz, Councilwoman Verna. When I was asked to come here and speak, I wasn't sure exactly what you wanted from me, in terms of what it is that I do. I'm the Executive Director of the Police Advisory Commission. And the impression I 220 RESOLUTION 970176 got was that you might want from me, or anyone else who spoke here, some ideas on how to approach the drug problem in Philadelphia.

And so I won't talk to you about the Police Advisory Commission, unless you want me to. And I can come back on the 21st, if you want. I mean, I have all kinds of statistics prepared. But I got the impression that you wanted something else from me today. And so let me read my statement, and hope that it is what you wanted. And, please, if you want me to come back on the 21st and talk about the Police Advisory Commission in general, and civilian review, I surely will.

Thank you.

I am sure that Mr. Gonzalez is going to do that. The mission of the Police Advisory Commission is to improve the relationship between the police department and the community. Our tasks, that is, the Police Advisory Commission's task, is to find ways to significantly reduce civilian complaints against police. 221 RESOLUTION 970176 Your focus here today is, what can be done about the drug plague in this city, which seems to overwhelm efforts to bring it under control. And I stole that right from your brochure. I have read your eleven-point approach in your resolution, and heartily applaud it. Your suggestion that more undercover agents be hired to make drug buys, leading to better evidence and more convictions, is certainly not without merit, and as is your suggestion that more uniformed police officers be detailed in and around drug hot spots. It is on this first approach of yours that I would like to focus attention and suggest one remedy which perhaps dovetails your concern and ours at the Police Advisory Commission. Let me preface my comments by assuring you that despite my quarter-century service as an FBI agent, I am by no means an expert in that area. Rather, these are observations I have made over the years through contact with the 222 RESOLUTION 970176 Philadelphia Police Department, both as an FBI agent and now as Executive Director of PAC. Most of us know the stress our police officers are under serving us in the violent world of police work these days. Let's call it external stress. I would like to focus on one aspect of internal problems within the police department which causes what I call internal stress on police officers, and which I am convinced causes frustrations resulting in civilian complaints and, yes, their ability to concentrate on the serious crimes, among them the drug problem. It is called activity. Activity can be loosely defined as the number of car stops, pedestrian stops, traffic citations, curfew violations, Part and Part arrests, et cetera, that a police officer accumulates during the course of his or her tour of duty. As explained in the Police Academy many years ago, the purpose of a car stop or a ped stop was for information gathering. In layman's terms, officers were to 223 RESOLUTION 970176 stop suspicious cars and individuals in their individual sectors, record that information on an incident report called 75-48, and turn those stops into the district when they report off. This information was then sent to the various detective bureaus for evaluation. If a crime was committed in a particular sector, the detective in charge would review the car and ped stops reported in that sector, in the sector where it had taken place, and in and around the time of the crime. The detective would then investigate those individuals listed in the 75-48 for possible suspects to the crime. That was, and still may be, the purpose of activity today. Activity in the Philadelphia Police Department has lost its original purpose, or somehow been overshadowed by the old numbers game. Our entire society is based on numbers. Production workers are measured on the number of widgets the produce every shift. Lawyers are measured by the number of cases they win. Salesmen are measured by the number of sales order they bring into the companies. Sports teams are 224 RESOLUTION 970176 certainly measured by the number of games they win. So, too, are police officers measured by the amount of activity they submit. There are districts in the Philadelphia Police Department who have set up point systems to evaluate and reward officers who submit the most activity in a measuring period. There is a negative side to the point system. Police officers who have the lowest points scored for the period are subjected to unwanted details in and out of the district.

If an officer does not agree with the point system philosophy, he or she is labeled as not being a team player, and often finds his or her assignment changed, transferred, harassed, and a victim of peer pressure often encouraged by supervisors. The numbers game is played out at every level of the police department. And, as evidenced in a recent Daily News article, has its origin at the very top. In that article, the Police Commissioner identified the new shift changes as a major factor in the numbers being up. 225 RESOLUTION 970176 Commissioner Neal is quoted as saying, "Our numbers have increased, arrests, tickets, car stops, ped stops are up, and that's across all shifts," is what he said. Nowhere in the article does the Commissioner identify the word quality car or ped stop. There is a significant difference between a car stop and a quality car stop, if I may use an analogy. One police officer stops a caravan of out-of-state nuns driving from their hotel to the 14 Cathedral, and tickets the last nun in the caravan 15 who drove through a red light trying to keep up with the other 14 nuns. At the end of his shift or her shift, 15 car stops and 1 traffic ticket is turned in, and that officer looks very productive. A second officer stops two cars, both of which fit the description of a vehicle involved in an armed robbery. Some time later the detective bureau investigates both of these car stops, and one leads to an arrest. But at the end of that officer's 226 RESOLUTION 970176 shift, he or she has only two car stops to turn in. Quantity versus quality. One of the other factors to consider in a numbers game, officers who write activity, whether quality or just for numbers sake, require backup on their investigation, a necessary evil. While the investigating officer is churning out activity, his backup is not. The police department will argue that this procedure will even itself out if both cars are active. When two cars are out of service during vehicle and pedestrian investigations, a third car must cover three sectors for radio calls. This could and often does affect response time to emergency calls. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Mr. Kluge, it reminds me, because in the East Division -- and Councilwoman Verna just showed me a chart of her district --

A very small area. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: -- in a very small area in the East Division --

Locations. 227 RESOLUTION 970176 CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: -- 40 percent -- and that's where the barrio is at -- over 40 percent of all the drug arrests in 1996 were done in the 25th and 26th District, and parts of the 24th. And I asked the Commissioner, and I didn't get a good answer. I asked the Commissioner, that's a heck of a lot of arrests. Right? However, it had no impact at all because it didn't change from day-to-day. The drug activity did not go down; it actually stayed the same or went up. So all of the arrests that were being done -- you know, you talk about quality stops and quantity stops, and I think that can also go for drug arrests. Because they are kind of easy to make. I mean, you go to 4th and Cambria, and you stop five people, and probably two of them may have a couple of bags in their pocket, you know, but it is a couple of bags. This is not a big, big guy in terms of drug dealer. Probably a kid, whatever it is. But it goes down as a drug arrest. It is not a quality arrest that 228 RESOLUTION 970176 impacts on the traffic and so on, but it is an arrest. And the policeman can say, "Well, I arrested two drug dealers today."

That's basically where I am going with this thing. Because the numbers game that's created by the police department on the street officer is causing him to make more stops. I mean, I think that's how the Police Advisory Commission and how Will's group gets so involved, as we do. They're going out and they are making stops. They are stopping people for no reason, because it is a numbers game. They have to produce numbers to look good. And there is a level of frustration with that. And that frustration is coming out on the street, and it is being taken out on the people. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: I think that is the level of frustration that is being shown by City Council, in terms of the changes and so on that are being asked about. Because I think that's what we're talking about. 229 RESOLUTION 970176 If you have all of these corners, but you're not able to intercept the people who are supplying those corners --

I guess where I'm going with this is to try to explain that, if you don't reward or punish police officers by numbers, they might do quality investigation for you, the kind of investigation that you are going to want to combat the drug problem in Philadelphia. They're not busy and frustrated by doing all these nonsense things that it takes for their report card. Don't measure them by that; measure them on the quality of what it is they are doing, and maybe this impetus will make them be a little bit more -- CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Well, that's what we are trying to get out of these hearings. It is like the DEA and the FBI and the Commissioner and the U.S. Attorney have come before this Council and have told us that in the East Division are 70 percent of all drugs that are distributed across the city. So the drugs that are going into the 230 RESOLUTION 970176 corners that Councilwoman Verna is talking about are coming from the East Division, the distribution center. And we're not able to go after that. I mean, we haven't made an impact. That was told to us two years ago. It was told to us again a few months ago. And I don't think it has changed. So what I'm saying is, again, the numbers game is something that I am very concerned about, and it is something that we will pursue in terms of the following hearings. Continue. Yes. Can you summarize it so that we can get the other folks, too?

Yes. As a matter of fact, I will go as quickly as I can. Our experience at the Police Advisory Commission is that far too many insignificant or even unnecessary car and pedestrian stops are being made. And when the civilian questions the stop, the incident escalates into a verbal or physical confrontation, resulting in a complaint against police being filed. 231 RESOLUTION 970176 Do we fix blame on the uniformed officer or on the system that rewards the officer for the numbers; that is, the activity? I will conclude this as soon as I can. In fact, what I can do is, I will get this typed up, and you all can read it later. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Remember, Charles, this is not the end of these hearings.

Okay. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Okay? So that we will come back.

All right. And I guess the other thing that I just wanted to add is that, in conclusion, there is no greater source of knowledge into the internal workings of any organization than the employees themselves. Maybe some consideration could be given to conducting a poll of sorts among the rank and file for ideas on how to fight the drug problem -- CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Thank you.

-- if they are not pressured by these statistics. And, by the way, I would like to talk 232 RESOLUTION 970176 to all of you about the Police Advisory Commission and what it is that we do, and civilian review. I just didn't think you wanted it tonight. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: We know. We have been involved. Remember, we overrode the Mayor, the Mayor's veto, on the civilian review board. So all of us are very well acquainted with the civilian review board.

I have to confess, I do not make myself visible enough, and I promise to. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Councilwoman Verna.

I'm just rather curious. Have civilian complaints increased or decreased in the last year?

They decreased. My office is showing a decrease this year, but I blame myself for that. We simply were not doing enough outreach. When the Commission first started, we did a lot of outreach; that is, to tell people who we are, what we do, where we are. And we slacked off, and that's my fault. And I have just developed a whole new 233 RESOLUTION 970176 plan that I am working on now, and already the complaints are beginning to increase again. It is out there. I mean, it increases at the police department, so it should in my shop. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: What's the number that you have right now?

As of August 29, we were three years in business, if you will. And at that point we had 350 complaints received. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: And do you have this distributed by areas?

Yes. I can tell you -- when you want it from me -- CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: You don't have to tell me now.

I can tell you the type of person that filed the complaint, the type of complaint it was. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: If you can write that up and submit it to us.

What district it came out of. I can do all of this. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: If you can write it 234 RESOLUTION 970176 up and submit it to the Committee, I would appreciate it. I will make sure that it gets distributed to the Council people.

Are you surprised that, with my limited budget, I have a computer? I wish Councilman Nutter was here. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: I think he heard you. He is probably in the office.

Well, I am honored to appear before you. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Thank you for staying.

Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Will, and then we will have the street fighters, as I call them all, coming in, Miriam and Sister Carol and all the other folks. WILL GONZALEZ: Thank you for inviting me today. My name is Will Gonzalez. I am the Executive Director of the Police-Barrio Relations Project. The Barrio Project is a community-based, civil rights organization that is trying to improve relations between the Latino 235 RESOLUTION 970176 community and the police by addressing the issues of police misconduct and the delivery of public safety services to the barrio. We believe that no comprehensive effort against the problems of drugs and violence in our communities can succeed without suring up the mechanisms that promote good relations between citizens and the police, and which also address police misconduct and corruption. The need to improve relations between the police and the Latino community is critical. In the barrio, relations between the cop on the beat and the man in the street are ruled by mutual fear, mistrust, and lack of understanding. Police misconduct, we believe, is one of the root causes of that distrust. The evil effects of police misconduct transcend the civil rights violations of its direct victims. The trust and security of all communities is affected by each act of misconduct. If the community is afraid of the police, then to who does it turn to address its public safety concerns? If the police cannot rely on citizens to help them, then how can they deter 236 RESOLUTION 970176 and stop crime? A lot of discussions have taken place over the last few months about the New York City policing model. That model, in terms of deployment of officers, its focus on quality-of-life crimes, and its improved accountability of police to their commanders is worthy of Philadelphia to emulate. In looking to New York City, however, we caution you to avoid the turning of a blind eye to issues of police misconduct that took place in New York. The most evident manifestation of that deliberate blindness was Mayor Giuliani's evisceration of the New York City Civilian Review Board. Civilian review board, for those of you who were not following, he basically came in and fired a number of people, got rid of a number of investigators, and basically slashed their budget, rendering them inoperable. Civilian review boards are integral to addressing issues of police accountability. In this era, police departments professing to develop closer working relations with citizens, review 237 RESOLUTION 970176 boards are the epitome of community policing. Review boards bring citizens and police together to work together on the issues that most affect the trust between them, allegations of misconduct. Review boards also serve as a vehicle for the department to hear of complaints that otherwise they might not have received. It should be easy to understand why a victim of police misconduct will be less hesitant to present a complaint to a review board than to a division of the police department. Philadelphia, therefore, should not only preserve its Police Advisory Commission, but strengthen it with the resources and the personnel to do its work. This will put Philadelphia's reforms, when they take place, ahead of New York City's. Yesterday New York sought to address this deficiency in their policy. They announced that there will be a 28 percent increase in funding for the review board -- that is, $1.5 million -- and a 20 percent increase in the staff, new people. 25 I just hope that Philadelphia can be 238 RESOLUTION 970176 ahead of the curve, rather than behind the curve. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: That was because of the incident?

Exactly. And we don't want to have Philadelphia reacting. Because I believe that Mr. ^ Luiema, in this litigious society, will collect more than $1.5 million. So if the city had spent that money ahead of time, they might have prevented the Luiema situation. It is a matter of paying up front and preventing, or paying double or triple at the back end. Civilian review boards, however, do not obviate the need for the police to continue to have their own internal accountability division. We need as many tools as possible to address all situations that can harm the relationship between the community and the police. So we also emphasize the need to strengthen the Internal Affairs Division of the police department. The police department needs to make IAD a bastion of trust and respect for the community 239 RESOLUTION 970176 and its police officers. That cannot take place, however, until IAD is provided with the personnel, facilities, and tools to do its work. And I am pretty sure, as Councilpeople, you have had the opportunity to go to IAD offices. But go again and see. They are working out of a facility that is antiquated, that at my understanding at one time was submitted to be condemned. They don't have enough equipment, they don't have enough personnel. And these are the very people that you are asking to investigate those officers who violate their trust. I'm not saying that every officer does. There are very great, good, wonderful officers who are working very hard under very trying conditions. But in a situation where I am talking about millions of dollars going through in the distribution of drugs, there are some officers for whom the temptation is just too much. And you are asking a division that is 240 RESOLUTION 970176 underequipped, understaffed to try to investigate these situations. Please, for the integrity of the police department, for citizens, we need you to make sure that that unit is given the tools to do its work. Responsibility to improve relations between the community and the police does not rest solely with the department. Citizens also need to increase our efforts to improve that relationship. However, for the Spanish-speaking community, certain organizational improvements need to take place in the department to help us better work with the police, to build a bridge over the barriers of a language and culture that sometimes separates us. One improvement is to increase the department's ability to communicate in Spanish. Currently, the department does not have a professional Spanish language interpreter. It relies on volunteers from within and outside the department to interpret for them. We would like to see the department retain its own Spanish interpreter, or interpreters, 241 RESOLUTION 970176 to help with its investigations. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: And if they are in South Philly, Cambodian.

Yes. And in the Northeast, Russian. I mean, look, you need every tool possible to carry out a job. And I know that people are focusing on computers and high-tech equipment, but the human element is as important. For example, I mean, the Martinez case, a family saw their father, husband killed by a robber. That person, that robber, came back to the store a month after the incident. They called the police, the police come, have this person in custody, and they let him go because they did not speak Spanish. And the store, the people in the store, were trying to tell the police why they had called and what was going on, and they let this person go. It took the police another two and a half years to finally get this person again. And, so, that shows how important it is to have the language skills, especially for Spanish. We are the largest language minority group 242 RESOLUTION 970176 in the city. To give you another incident -- this was relayed to me by one of the officers from SALEA, Spanish American Law Enforcement Association. They were doing a drug raid, and they had come upon this location where they had good intelligence that this was a place where drugs were being stashed. But they looked everyplace, and they couldn't find it, and they couldn't find it, and they couldn't find it. And one of the people who was being detained in the room said to the other in Spanish, "Wow, I'm glad they haven't looked under the pool table." So this officer, who understands Spanish perfectly, heard it, stepped outside, and said, "Guys, look under the pool table," and, boom, they found what they were looking for. Otherwise, they would not have found it. So the need for language is so key. And in doing investigations, especially in homicides, and other investigations, you just don't go by what the person says; you also go by how they say it, whether they were -- 243 RESOLUTION 970176 CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: By the way --

So all that is important. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: District Attorney Abraham said to me that right now the drug investigations are being hampered from her office, being hampered because they do not have personnel detectives, detectives that can do the investigation. So sometimes they have a wire tap on a key individual, and they miss it all because they can't speak either Cambodian or Spanish or Russian, which is becoming a very big factor in drug aspects in the city. And they don't have detectives that have the language skills to be able to do that. And that is one of the reasons we have been asking her, why don't you put that forward. Go ahead.

And there is a tool in the City Charter, which is Selective Factor Certification. And we encourage you to continue to ask the city to use Selective Factor Certification 244 RESOLUTION 970176 in the hiring and promotion, to help bring people of various-speaking languages into the department to do this work. Another needed improvement in the department that will break down the barriers of defective communication between the community and the police is to improve the mechanism that promises confidentialities to citizens that call police. Unfortunately, if someone calls the police to complain about a neighbor's criminal activity, that neighbor finds out immediately who called the police on him or her. In some cases the police go to the house of the caller before they go to the house of the person against whom the allegation is made. I am not suggesting that the police throw discretion out the window and never contact the caller, or blindly follow calls and allegations it receives; however, what we need is an increased awareness and sensitivity for the safety of those who are willing to inform the department about problems. We hope that while you look at improving the department, that you also look beyond 245 RESOLUTION 970176 improvements in the size of the force. The size of the force is but one component. Diversity of the force, the compensation of officers, the state of the equipment they use are equally important. The Philadelphia Police Department must do everything it can to better reflect the community it serves. Currently, the Philadelphia Police Department does not reflect the diversity of the city. While the city is over 70 percent people of color, the department is only 30 percent people of color. Eliminating this diversity gap is important to building a better relationship between citizens and police. Philadelphia must also improve the compensation for its police officers. Currently, Philadelphia police are underpaid, vastly underpaid, for the dangerous and demanding work they do. A pay that better reflects the risks and demands of the job will help the department draw a better pool of candidates and retain experienced officers. 246 RESOLUTION 970176 Improved compensation will also help alleviate some of the pressures that lead some officers to corruption. Philadelphia police must also be provided with the equipment necessary to do its work. I'm not talking about high-tech tools or cutting-edge computer equipment. The need for basics, like sufficient police vehicles that are operational, enough radios, and physical plants that are more productive, working environments, is also critical. In closing, we ask you to support the reform efforts that are part of the settlement of the class action lawsuit between the City of Philadelphia and the Police-Barrio Relations Project, the NAACP, and the ACLU. It was over a year ago that we reached a settlement, and there is a slow but steady progress in fully implementing its provisions within the two-year implementation period. We need City Council's support to continue to move forward on these reforms. Thank you for your attention. And if 247 RESOLUTION 970176 you have any questions --

Thank you. Your testimony was very enlightening. Thank you very much. Sister. Would you please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. SISTER CAROL KECK: My name is Sister Carol Keck. I am a School Sister of Notre Dame, and I am the Executive Director of Norris Square Neighborhood Project, an urban environmental education center; and a volunteer member of the United Neighbors Against Drugs. In Norris Square we work with children and neighbors to improve our community, turning vacant lots into gardens, covering graffitied walls with murals, and working with families just to generally improve our community in which we live. And school children come to our center for environmental lessons during the day, cultural lessons, help with homework after school, arts and crafts, et cetera, and summer day camp. We have a number of children that we 248 RESOLUTION 970176 accommodate in summer day camp. And we find children like our 9-year-old Stephanie, who, on a three-day camping trip that our staff took the children out to French Creek State Park -- camping is a lot of work, you know, putting up the tents, getting the wood, building the fire. So one of the board members asked the children did they like camping, with all this hard work. And little 9-year-old Stephanie says, immediately, "Yes. " You know, and that's a dramatic statement from a 9-year-old, that this is obviously something that's on her mind all the time. And it was this concern for our children and our neighborhood that caused, about eight years ago, a group of people in our neighborhood, members of Norris Square, Woodrock, St. Boniface's, First Spanish Baptist Church, KJAC, to come together with the police to form United Neighbors Against Drugs. And then after intensive community organizing, community members of all ages, races met 249 RESOLUTION 970176 every Monday night with the police, for six or seven years, giving information, turning over information on tip sheets. Neighbors would report what was being sold where, who was doing it, giving descriptions. And the police came back the next week and reported to us what they had done about that. And during these efforts, we have kept over $25 million worth of drugs off the streets in our small area of Philadelphia. Friday nights found us out on the streets, marching together with the police, chanting anti-drug slogans, going to some of our neighbor groups, to West Philadelphia, they coming to help us, to send out the message to buyers and users and dealers that we didn't want this on our streets. The persistent citizen actions, working with police over the past six or seven years, has made a difference in the Norris Square area. S. Attorney Mike Baylson wanted to do some intensive community work along with law enforcement, after attending one of 250 RESOLUTION 970176 our meetings, it was to UNAD that he sent an invitation in saying, we want to work with the community on this concentrated way to weed out the criminal elements in our community, and to seed it with community rebuilding efforts. We can't have one without the other. And this particular federal project brought some resources to our part of the East Division. And the disadvantage is that it's only a small part of the East Division. We need a mammoth Weed and Seed Project, with the adequate resources to do that. And the Philadelphia police have worked effectively with the community, which has a high percentage of Latinos and African-Americans. And one gets to know others pretty well standing around on street corners until 2:00 or 3 o'clock in the morning. So the people have developed a different type of relationship with the police than probably some other community groups in the city. And this particular brand of community policing has benefited both the community and the police.

251 RESOLUTION 970176 And neighbors tell the police that, yes, drugs is a problem, but so are the high numbers of cars sliding through stop signs, abandoned cars left on streets, abandoned buildings where prostitutes go in and drug dealers. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Those are quality-of-life issues. SISTER CAROL: I didn't want to use that word. And no one is stopping these infractions -- we were telling the police this -- so it gives the impression that it is okay to commit the next-higher level of crime. And they get by with that, so the next higher level is committed. And pretty soon we have what looks like the wild west. East Division has been called any number of names. I spent part of this morning out with the reporter and a photographer in the infamous G section of the 25th District, which is right around the corner from our so-called Safe Haven, where we have replaced the windows several times. We have 18 bullet holes in the ceiling from drug dealers shooting that. 252 RESOLUTION 970176 We had to close the Safe Haven for several months, until the police put the mini-station outside in order to regain some stability in those few blocks, to be able to have a Safe Haven where children could come. And so, anyway, going back to organizing the community mobilization, which is really important. The police found out that there were more good people in these areas than the bad that they first had the impression. And the police were the ones that really couldn't seal the abandoned buildings. The police weren't the ones that needed to replace the stop signs. But the police are on the front line. They are the one city service that people know about, so they are the one that, the police department is the one, that gets the complaints. In our experience with the Weed and Seed Project, the police officers have become more proficient at referring people to the right department, so that they're not handling all the complaints. And with us, working with us, the 253 RESOLUTION 970176 city did this amazing thing called coordination. You know, if we take a target area, and we clean the streets, we install the stop signs, the Health Department works there, L & I seals the buildings, there are amazing results. You know, it seems like such a simple tactic. And neighbors then came and swept in front of their buildings, painted over the graffiti. And criminals began to say, you know people care here, and they moved on. And it look us a lot of soul-searching, but UNAD members take a pledge of nonviolence. So there were a lot of discussions about, do we want all of our young people in jail. And we came to the conclusion that, yes, we do have to have a number of them in jail to give us a breathing period to regain the community. And we follow -- and the Inquirer has documented this several times -- we follow some of our cases into court. I think Councilman Ortiz knew about a particular case that a judge told him he would have thrown the case out, because the ADA wasn't prepared. But he saw 15 people sitting there with 254 RESOLUTION 970176 white shirts and white hats on that said United Neighbors Against Drugs, and he figured he better follow through with that case. And I can't emphasize enough how the courts, and their falling down on this, where the police department is doing their work, but the courts are falling down on this. We went back to court eight different times before that case was finally heard, the young man was sentenced. And he had become a folk hero in the neighborhood. People looked up to him because he had gotten by with so much. And, finally, he was made to pay, and some people began to look at it in a different way. " The other piece of this, then, is, after following them into court, there are some of us that are in prison ministries, so we go into the prisons. And that was sort of the last straw 255 RESOLUTION 970176 for some of these young people, including this one young man who had finally been sentenced.

It's like, "We can't get away from you anywhere. " But we are also there when they come out of jail, to support them, because they come back to the same neighborhoods. And the other piece of this is, we try to concentrate on some of the customers who come in. They are not people from our neighborhoods; they are the many cars that are coming in from Jersey and Delaware, coming in by cabs. We researched the records to find out to whom does this brown BMW belong, of this well-dressed young man. Could be a lawyer, stock broker. Found out that he lived in Phoenixville. We instituted a system of sending postcards. Because you know what happens when a postcard comes in the house and it is put on the table, everybody looks at it as it goes there. So the wife who didn't know what her husband was doing at lunchtime, now did. Or if parents didn't know what their kids were doing with that car, they now did, because 256 RESOLUTION 970176 this postcard said, "Your brown BMW, Tag ABC-123, was seen in a known drug area. This is an unhealthy and unsafe condition. Please stay out. United Neighbors Against Drugs," and we put our address. We wanted them to contact us. We haven't heard from anybody, yet. And, incidentally, you can imagine the look on the face of this young man, who a few months later, as he was getting his brown BMW into a parking place at the Valley Forge Shopping Center, sees me getting out of the car next to him. Because I had been in the group that had chased him several blocks, and telling him to stay out of our neighborhood. And, you know, he was sort of surprised that here we are in his neighborhood, and didn't know what was going to happen next. Another effective tactic that we have been able to use with the Weed and Seed Project is to utilize some of the funds to purchase a mobile police station. And this has now become very popular, because it is an effective means. And it is something that the community devised, with the 257 RESOLUTION 970176 police, as a way to solve the problems. And there are now seven or eight of those in the city. And they have been accompanied now by bike patrols, because that's much more effective than walking the streets. " We went to corporations and we came up with money to buy that first set of bikes. And I hope you are hearing this constant theme here of strategizing, problem-solving together, coming up with a solution, and being proactive about it. And, to me, that is a real part of community policing. We could do all of this. But if the higher-ups didn't buy into it, it wouldn't work. And we have had very good cooperation from supervisors, sergeants, lieutenants, captains, on up to the Commissioner, but it has to become a department-wide not only philosophy, but a practice. And this whole issue of numbers that Charles spoke about, you can't continue to answer 911 calls, get numbers, and do quality community 258 RESOLUTION 970176 policing. That has to be proactive and preventive, and people need time to do that. With our Weed and Seed Project, which I think is one of the more successful models of community policing and problem-solving and community improvement, the seeding piece can't be ignored, also. " And our city can't do that. Some of our direct wars are going to be won on the playgrounds. So that when Commissioner DiBerardinis comes to you for an increase in his budget, he needs to get it so we can reopen places like -- CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: I tried to do that. SISTER CAROL: So that we can go back to reopening pools that have been closed and recreation programs for children after hours. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: You know, most of the juvenile crime is committed between 3:00 and 8 o'clock in the afternoon. 259 RESOLUTION 970176 SISTER CAROL: Yes; when young people need things to do. And so, for this reason, we have set up Safe Havens in our communities in buildings that have been taken away from drug dealers, confiscated and forfeited to our community groups.

We have also utilized an AmeriCorps project, where young people give a year of service to their community and set up Safe Havens, Safe Corridors, increase Town Watches, and install smoke detectors, doing playground peace patrols. And for this service they are given a living stipend, health insurance, and child care, and an almost $5,000 award for their education. More of these kinds of efforts -- and out of these 30 AmeriCorps members, 80 percent of them are community members. This has been a five-year effort, and we have seen some success. S. Attorney Mike Stiles. And we took a month's break last month, and we came back. We had our meeting yesterday. S. A. on help that we need in that area and the coordination that they work with. Yesterday morning they had a violent trafficers meeting in which their plans for, in this case, the 25th District are being laid out. And I have some hope that soon we're going to see some improvements in these areas. But I want to bring out a point of, we in the community are very disturbed when this is working, we are working with police, and those people are yanked out of our areas. And that just doesn't make sense, that officers have gotten the people in the community to trust them, to give them the information, and the department pulls them out. It just seems to me that, do they really want this to work. And Managing Director Certaine mentioned the Town Watch, increase in Town Watch. And he also mentioned that there would be two additional coordinators hired next year, one to work 261 RESOLUTION 970176 in the American Street area. And I would just call to your attention, yes, that's true. And I Chair the Community Safety Committee, and it was one of our projects. And it has taken us two years. We have the money. We wanted to allocate somebody to go out and mobilize people. And the city's law department can't get the bloody contract through in two years to do that. You know, which is an outrageous thing that maybe you can help do something about. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: I wish you would let me know when that happens. SISTER CAROL: Well, you are on notice, it is happening. " SISTER CAROL: I mean, we have the money. We want to transfer it through the Managing Director's Office, hire a person. We could have had 20 or 30 coordinators, Town Watches, going by now in these two years. But coming back to this Weed and Seed effort, I just want to point out that we must be 262 RESOLUTION 970176 doing something right. During the past year, UNAD as hosted, and the officers from the mini-station have hosted, a number of visitors: The Police Commissioner from India, who was spending some time here at the Olympics, and he wanted to study what we're doing with the community and with the police; A high-ranking police official from China; a group of journalists from the Middle East; One of the few female members of Parliament of another province in India. Her husband was the Police Commissioner there and was killed by terrorists. She was very much wanting to see how we implemented the Town Watch program. Because she was convinced the police are not going to be able to handle the terrorist problem there, but people in the community working together could. Other visitors have been the Constitutional Committee from South Africa. You know, after all of those years of struggle, and they finally are now going to write a constitution, and they came to America to study federalism. And they came to our part of East Division to find out how we're working with the police. 263 RESOLUTION 970176 And several months later their equivalent to your Committee, the Public Safety Committee, and what's their governing body, came back to visit us, at their recommendation, to get more details of how the police are working with the community. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Sister Carol, with all of that, the East Division -- SISTER CAROL: But this is only one little part of East Division.

CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: You look at it -- SISTER CAROL: It looks like a third-world country. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: It is 129 rapes during '96, 80 murders. I mean, that constitutes -- when they say crime is going down, it is not going down in the East Division. That's what I have been trying to tell the Commissioner and I have been trying to tell the Mayor. It is not going down over there. SISTER CAROL: It has improved in our little part of East Division around the Norris Square area. And we have mobilized the community. 264 RESOLUTION 970176 The community has put out the word that we are not going to tolerate it, and that is important. We have had good cooperation from the city, but it is not all of the -- we are only a little part of East Division. And it is this model that has to be spread out to more of the East Division. And the Commissioner can't put additional federal-funded police officers there, who are brand-new out of the academy, but then tell them to come in with huge numbers, if they are telling them to follow the community policing philosophy. They really have to do one or the other. And I'd just like to point out that, you know, that's with one little patch of one part of East Division that there is some hope. And I know that it could be expanded and include other areas. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: I mean, we are not dealing with rocket science. SISTER CAROL: Exactly. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: We know what can work. The thing that is frustrating is, why 265 RESOLUTION 970176 isn't it being done? SISTER CAROL: At every meeting you go to, people want safe streets, clean streets, a safe neighborhood to raise their children. I'm sure that's what you hear all the time. That's all anybody wants. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Okay. Yes. That, to me, is the frustrating thing. Because we ask, why is it not being done? And when you ask and you ask, and you say, how are you deploying people in the East Division, and then you look, and it is not equitable -- I mean, if you put the people where the crime is, it is like when they asked Willie Sutton why he robbed banks, he said, that's where the money is. Where do you put police? You put them where the crime is. So let us begin thinking that way. And that's what I hope these hearings accomplish. SISTER CAROL: And one of the recommendations is that we ought to take some of those officers that are in management review, doing what seems to us nothing, and out on the streets. 266 RESOLUTION 970176 These are more experienced police officers; they know. If they have to fill out reports, let them sit at the corner of 4th and Cambria and fill them out. We don't need that number downtown in those offices; we need them out on the streets day and night. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Okay. Miriam, then. MIRIAM COLON: For the record, thank you for inviting me here. My name is Miriam Colon, and I am CUNAD, Community United Neighbors Against Drugs. CUNAD started in 1989. And we started as a group of parents, a priest, just regular people from the community. And the reason we started was because at 8th and Hutchinson, 9th and Hutchinson, there was a church, which was St. Bonaventure's, and there was a school. And in front of the school, there was a lot of drug dealing, and there was a lot of vials. And our kids had to come out there and play in that street, because that school didn't have any playground. 267 RESOLUTION 970176 So from the window of the school, the kids were able to see all the drug dealing that was being done around that school. And we finally kind of realized that we had to start talking and getting organized. And a group of parents and the priest became organized. We started talking to other organizations, which became CUNAD, because of UNAD. We called ourselves cousins. What happened was that we looked at what they were doing. They were going to the corners, and saying, "Get away from our corners. We don't want no more drugs," and so forth and so forth.

And we did this for a year or two, and we just helped other organizations and went out there. In the years that we were there, the community started saying, "Well, okay. " So we started looking into the neighborhoods and what was in the neighborhoods, and there was no after-school programs. From there, we 268 RESOLUTION 970176 started doing after-school programs. And we saw that we had to start helping our kids get out of the neighborhoods, to become empowered. Our streets were completely with graffiti. It was too much. One of the things that we started looking into in talking to our parents was, they did not know what was their rights as parents, as community residents, as voters. Our residents did not know anything, basically. A lot of the streets, they weren't cleaned. The sanitation did not go through their streets, and the officers were not seen around. So we started helping and working in the neighborhoods, and we started working with the police. We also saw there was not enough police. Every time we did a vigil, we didn't get enough police because they had to be doing other things. When the Weed and Seed Project came about, it was to us, like, a relief or something, that we felt that it was going to really help our neighborhoods. We saw that it was going to be 269 RESOLUTION 970176 weeding and seeding, and that was what we were all about. The police would come in and weed out the vandals. The organizations were really going to work out really good. But what we really didn't realize, there was not enough police in the neighborhood for the neighborhood that we served, which is the Fairhill section, which is where 4th and Cambria and 3rd and Indiana, and all those nice little neighborhoods. We have been organizing, we have been doing rallies, we have even brought out up to 14 schools to march in the neighborhood because our 15 parents needed to take charge of their lives. And I 16 think we're seeing a little bit of that light on the 17 other end. But what I'm saying is that, we need to start working, you know, getting more police in our neighborhoods. We don't have enough police officers, especially in the 25th District. Sister Carol, on the other hand, she has a little bit of that corner, you know, where she is in Norris Square, and they are seeing that light. 270 RESOLUTION 970176 But in our neighborhood there is such an abundance of so much drug dealing, that we need more officers. We need more officers into doing problem-solving, not just arresting. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Doing what, though? What do you want those officers to do?

The officers -- CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: This is for the record.

Yes. Yes. We want the officers to be out there with the community. And if there is a situation -- like when we started a block captain's curriculum training, eight sessions, when the officers are there, the community gets to know the officers and they get to start talking about the problems in their blocks. Not in the whole neighborhood; their blocks. And just by answering that problem, how to solve one simple problem, gets the community, or the residents, to really work with the officers. But if you don't have enough officers to come to one meeting because they have to be doing a lot of arrests in just those little kinds of 271 RESOLUTION 970176 arrests, not problem-solving, then this is why we have so much arrests and not a lot of problem-solving. And this is what we're asking for, more officers in our neighborhoods that are problem-solving, working with the community and the residents. And that's basically what I have to say. Thank you. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Okay. Mr. Gregory Allen.

Boy, my involvement with our particular case has to do with a property. And I need to be clear about that, because that's my involvement. And I want to thank you for inviting me. And two people here, Wanda Correra from your office and Joe White had a lot to do with our success. And my participation is more on a -- I'm a graduate student at Temple. And about seven years ago I was doing some training with Jack Green from the Center for Public Policy, on a grant called Urban Initiatives, in the Cecil B. Moore community 272 RESOLUTION 970176 of North Philly, North Central. And I have done stuff with the Mayor's Office, Community Services, Richard Allen, Hope 6, and things of that nature. So my interest is in community and organizational development. So I'm doing this training with the residents of Cecil B. Moore, and they ask me, what am I doing in my community. And about the same time, a man that I grew up with had sort of begun to take over his grandmother's home. And she is an older woman, and drugs are being sold and used out of her home. And we didn't know what to do, because we didn't know if it was grandmother who kind of knew what was going on and was getting a cut -- though we all knew her; we have all been long-term residents of this block -- or we didn't know if she was being held hostage. We had no 20 idea. And, in fact, one of the members of the training program I was doing introduced me to Wanda Correra for the District Attorney's Office Public Nuisance Task Force. And up until that point, you know, 273 RESOLUTION 970176 the classic things that happened; you know, lots of traffic, foot and car traffic, like the sister mentioned, with out-of-state plates, and gunshots. And all of my neighbors had called the police multiple times. And windows in cars had been broken. And a classic profile of a drug house. So I contacted -- you know, I guess being the person who had the least to risk -- everyone was sort of afraid of retaliation; and I'm single and I don't have a family, and all of my neighbors have children or are caring for older spouses -- so I went ahead and contacted Wanda and got a packet, affidavits, and circulated it through the block. I took the initiative. And about at that same time I ran into Joe White. I don't believe in coincidence, so I knew this was, you know, an act of God, that God was kind of walking us through this whole process. And, you know, Joe and his group came out, and bull horns and, you know, the drugstore is closed, you know, call the police. If you don't like what we're doing, call the police. And, so, in a very short period of 274 RESOLUTION 970176 time, these guys got frustrated, and they left. And the D.A.'s Office, in cooperation with, I think, L & I and a couple of other folks, came in and closed the house up. And they did such a good job of it. They used corrugated steel from the inside, so you can't really tell that it's kind of an abandoned house. And, boy, you know, it was a collaborative. You know, I know my neighbors are kind of looking for one person to thank for everything. And a lot of times that tends to be Wanda or Joe or myself. But it was truly a partnership that involved Wanda, Joe, myself; and the local churches who provided a space and came out and stood with us; block captains; the captain and the officer, the community relations officer; the D.A.'s Office; Councilman Nutter; State Representative Bishop. Everybody. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: It isn't just the police.

Not at all. In fact, it couldn't be just the police, because we had done that for five years. 275 RESOLUTION 970176 We called, they came out, they arrested the guys, the guys came right back and the house was open the same day. In fact, the day they shut it down, the guys had been arrested and come back the same day. So it was a partnership; it was a collaborative effort. And it took us two years. The District Attorney's Office tried the case in court, and it took us two years before Judge Denise Brinkley granted forfeiture of the house to the District Attorney's Office. And at this point I believe they're looking for a buyer to purchase the house. And we have an agreement that a portion of the proceeds will be shared with the community to improve Tustin Recreation Center, which is right near by. So from my perspective, what can be done is to increase public awareness of, you know, initiatives. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Can we take four minutes? My kids are in daycare after school. I have to make one phone call. Thank you. (Short recess.)

The only thing I can add 276 RESOLUTION 970176 is to increase public awareness of community-based organizations and initiatives like the D.A.'s office, or other community-based organizations. And, thirdly, the D.A.'s Office has made a commitment to us to use a portion of the proceeds from the sale of the property to improve our community. I know that when property or when material is sold, a lot of organizations benefit from it, but a lot of those proceeds don't actually reach the community. And we are the guys on the front line. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: I don't know if you were here, but we asked the D.A. to give us a full accounting of those funds and how they are spent. Once we get it, you know you are going to get it, so we can all then have a discussion as to where this should go and where they will be more effective.

Thank you. And, also, to encourage collaboratives and partnerships. Because, truly, in our situation, the one I am connected with, it was truly a collaborative and a partnership. 277 RESOLUTION 970176 And I guess, lastly, I have one more to add. And you know I want to compliment you on having these hearings and for, you know, staying with it until the end, when the community, the folks that are on the front lines, are involved. But it is interesting to me, you know, it is kind of curious, how do you get community residents involved? When it is their time to really say things, nobody is available to hear it. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: I think they need to understand because I think, like Sister Carol, I remember when I first got here, 8th and Butler was going on. And at that point everybody was scared, because there were no UNADs, no CUNADs, no 18 anything, no one out there. And I remember I began going out and holding meetings in churches. And the first time we held a meeting up at around 8th and Butler, Hunting Park, nobody came. And then we held another couple more meetings, and a lot of people came. But then when we got there, the back rows of the church got filled 278 RESOLUTION 970176 up by the drug dealers, so everybody got scared and nobody spoke. So I was like holding monologues with some people, and so on. But then people began to understand that the police were not going to act until they began to get involved, and we held our first marches and our first vigil, and so on. And out of that, you know, all of these things. 8th and Butler, I remember that it became national. I mean, we had videotapes on the news and everything else. And all of the sudden the Latino community up at that area was -- I mean, I remember John Wilder was part of the DEA at that point, and he and I worked very closely together. But like Sister says, there it was like a drive-in. I mean, you actually saw lines of cars just moving through. And the police were doing absolutely nothing. Nothing. And there was not a community involved at that point. And now, you know, we have lots of community, but now we have to get the police to begin understanding that it is not just a police problem; there are other aspects. So hopefully we will push the Mayor 279 RESOLUTION 970176 to do certain things, and this Council to propose certain things, that will be of benefit and that will begin making changes. I'm tired of the bad lands and everybody saying, "Well, the bad lands." And even the kids now, the Julio DeBurgos School, they wrote a whole song about the bad lands, with that title. And so it is kind of something that we have to work on. Mr. White, do you have anything else to contribute? I don't know if you have anything else. I mean, almost everything -- JOE WHITE: Just a few things. My name is Joe White. I am with Laborers Local 332, also the President of Overbrook Against Drugs. I thank you for being here, for inviting me. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: Thank you for being here and staying.

We do have a problem. The problem, you know, is in the communities. The problem is, a lot of times, with the communities. We have to make a stand to let them 280 RESOLUTION 970176 know that we are tired of these drugs being sold in our area. Myself, we had a bad area that was heavily infested. It looked like the bad lands. You understand? But we went out and we dealt with it. We met with Herman Rice. Herman Rice, he travels all over the world organizing communities against drugs, you know. He started the White Hats. He did things with Lynne Abraham with this program that's called the Lions Program. It is an excellent program. It started in the 18th District, and then it came over to the 19th District. It is a program where they go out, you tell them, you make a call and you tell them that they're selling drugs here, and who they sell to and everything, and they will go out and make a buy. When they make that buy, they come back and go out again and lock them up. And once they lock them up, they follow that case with one D.A. all the way through the system. 281 RESOLUTION 970176 And say if that person get out and open the store back up, or the home back up, they'll -- when you call and tell them that they are opened back up, they will come right back out and seal it up. They confiscate the property, no 7 questions asked. And when they go to court, see, a lot of times when they go to court, a lot of the drug dealers don't go all the way through. They have a court date, and they don't show up. So what the judge do, he give a subpoena to the D.A., they give it to the detective, and they go out and lock them up. We found out that that program works. We wish it was all over Philadelphia. Because they're there, they're involved. They helped us a lot. Also, Laborers Local 332, Sam Stanton, Sr., along with Michael Nutter, Herman Rice, and the FOP with Michael Lutz, are coming together to form -- to help us in our fight against drugs. And what they are doing, they are getting the people, the bodies. See, where the 282 RESOLUTION 970176 communities are scared, we're getting the bodies and going into the communities. All we need is a couple of people in that community to say they are tired of this problem. And what we will do is, we will go into this area, and we will stay there and help them fight drugs. We will help them. We will show the drug dealers that these people is not alone, there are people out here that care about them. And with that, and also working with the police department, we found out that that works. Because a lot of times we don't get the bodies. You know, we might get 5 percent out of a neighborhood that will come out. So with the union and the FOP, and Herman Rice and Michael Nutter, we're doing things, we're putting this thing together, and we're going into other areas now. You understand? We're helping in sealing up houses. We are helping get the graffiti off. We are involved. This is what we need. We need more unions, more people involved with our fight. 283 RESOLUTION 970176 Because we can't sit here and deal with these numbers. These numbers don't mean anything to us. All they are is just for paper, shuffling paper. We need people to be involved. And this is what we need, the bodies. And this is what we're putting together. We hope that everybody in City Council would get involved. Because, see, we're dealing with a large area, Philadelphia, but it works everywhere else. Herman Rice go to Africa, he went to Florida, Texas, all over. We was up Pottstown a couple of months ago. But everybody gets involved; that is the key. You know? So I'm not going to keep you here. I just want you to know that I, you know, I would like to come back and tell you more about this program that we're doing. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: That's very good.

Get other unions involved in this thing, because it also helps the kids. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: It might interest you and Sister that the followup hearing is going to 284 RESOLUTION 970176 be about juveniles. And we are going to have the court system. We are going to have the judges, the administrative judges, come in and talking about the programs and what happens once an arrest is made. So -- SISTER CAROL: The court system is where so many of the problems are. CHAIRMAN ORTIZ: We're going to have that in the next hearing. And so we are going to be talking about the juvenile aspect of this. And I hope that as we keep on going, I want to hold and take this Committee to the community and hold a hearing in which we actually go up to Hunting Park or 5th and Lehigh, and hold a meeting up there, and hear, and take the Commissioner and let the Commissioner and some of the judges and the D.A., and let the people come in and testify. And I think that's one of the areas in which we want to begin pushing for reforms. Because unless the community and the people are pushing for the reforms, just because I talk about it, it is not going to happen. 285 RESOLUTION 970176 We have to have an army of people saying to the Mayor and the City Council, this is what you guys have to do, and you have to begin going in this direction. So I want to thank all of you for staying the course and being here. And we are going to call on you again as we proceed with this. I want to read a letter from the Fraternal Order of Police, from Richard B. Costello, President. "Dear Councilman Ortiz: At approximately 5:20 p.m., on Friday, September 12, 1997, I returned from court to find your invitation to appear before your Public Safety Committee on Wednesday, September 17, 1997. "Unfortunately, at this late date I will be unable to break several other commitments which have already been made for September 17, including among which is the murder trial of a Philadelphia police officer. Nevertheless, I would like the opportunity of testifying at a future date. "I am already aware that these hearings are ongoing, in that several months ago I 286 RESOLUTION 970176 was invited to appear pursuant not to this Committee, but I was invited to appear pursuant to a same or very similar Council resolution. "I appeared to testify, as requested. And after waiting for seven hours, I was advised by the Council President that I would be rescheduled at a later date. I am now respectfully requesting the same courtesy in return. "Thank you for your consideration. Sincerely, Richard Costello." And that goes into the record. I want to thank all of you. It has been a long day, and I have to see if I can find my two kids. Thank you. I did not adjourn the Committee. The Committees on Law and Government and Public Safety hearing on Resolution 970176 is adjourned until October 21, 1997, at 10:00 a.m. (Hearing adjourned at 6:15 p.m.) 287 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Wednesday, September 18, 1997, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COMMITTEES ON PUBLIC SAFETY and LAW AND GOVERNMENT _____________________________________ DEBRA A. WHITEHEAD, RPR