Do Members have the amendments? We don't have them up here.
The amendment to the ordinance. We had them on the table, Madam President. We think they were distributed.
Everybody apparently has the amendments. Thank you, Mr. Cuorato.
We just wanted to make sure that was on the record. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. I'm glad you called that to our attention. Janice Price, please. Good afternoon. Thank you for your patience. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good afternoon, and thank you. President Verna, Members of Council and distinguished guests, my name is Janice Price. , 147 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 which is the non-profit organization that manages and programs the Kimmel Center for the Performing Arts and the Academy of Music. I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to testify today. We are incredibly grateful for the City's enormous investment in the performing arts in Philadelphia through the transformation of South Broad Street into the Avenue of the Arts over the past decade. First, let me say that the Kimmel Center is in full support of historic preservation efforts to restore the Sam Eric movie house. Having just completed a $40 million renovation of the magnificent Academy of Music with the Philadelphia Orchestra, we are sensitive to the value of preserving our historic entertainment facilities. The Academy of Music renovation was undertaken as a key component of the regional Performing Arts Center business plan, which called for touring Broadway to fill the renovated Academy's stage, thereby providing vital revenue to the Kimmel Center and thereby its resident companies. This restoration, 148 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 including updating the back stage with modern lighting and rigging systems to accommodate the largest of Broadway touring shows, and last spring we launched the first season of Citizens Bank Broadway at the Academy which brought new life to the venerable theater and more than 120,000 patrons onto Broad Street. I believe you have a copy of our first season Broadway brochure at your desk. A highlight of our season last summer was Beauty and the Beast which played for two weeks, closing their national tour, and this is the first of many Disney productions that we plan to bring to the Academy of Music. Today, I'm here to join with other members of the theater and performing arts community in requesting additional analysis of the impact of the proposed Boyd Theater project on the existing theater community. Simply stated, we believe that there are significant questions about both supply and demand in the current theatrical marketplace. Public financing of an additional venue, 149 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 without a defined statement of the need, would directly impact the viability of established community organizations, including Kimmel Center, Inc. First, I'd like to address the issue of supply. Currently, Broadway programming in Philadelphia is presented by a half dozen theaters. A cornerstone of the Boyd project is to present an extensive array of Broadway programming. Securing quality programming for our theaters is an already challenging task due to increasingly limited offerings on tour. In fact, as we have previously heard, two of the largest commercial theaters in our community are dark anywhere from 35 to 50 weeks a year. There are simply not enough touring Broadway shows, musical theater and specialty events to fill all of these theaters. Second, let's consider the audience's demand. Boyd Theater Project Plan assumes yearly attendance of over 441,000 patrons. This reflects more than a 50 percent increase over the estimated attendance at 150 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Philadelphia's major theaters, which we estimate in our informal survey of our fellow theaters to be 770,000 in the year 2003-04. This suggests that there may in fact currently be excess seating capacity in this community. While each of us has seen success in developing audiences for all of our theatrical and other performing arts programs, we have serious concerns about what it will mean to add a 50 percent capacity increase to the marketplace in only one year. In the past decade, as you've heard, new theaters have opened in Baltimore, Chicago and Boston; marketplaces that already had, as you've also heard, a considerable supply of theater seats. As a result, some formerly active venues are now dark.
We're very excited about our new Broadway at the Academy serious. Just last night we celebrated opening night of the critically acclaimed, three Tony Award winning program, "Urinetown," which will be at the Academy through Sunday. This winter, "Oliver" and "Les Miserables" will fill the stage as we 151 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 continue to fulfill our vision of creating a thriving cultural district and bringing world class programming to Philadelphia. In closing, we're simply asking that a study be commissioned that thoroughly examines the impact of this proposed additional venue on the existing producing and presenting companies in the Philadelphia region. If I may just respond to a few of Mr. Cuorato's and the other witnesses' remarks on that front, there is a study that I have heard today was consulted that purports to study this impact. And to my knowledge, certainly no one in our organization or others of our fellow theater producing companies were consulted for the study, nor have we seen a copy of it. To Mr. Anderson's testimony with respect to three theaters in Philadelphia who produce the volume and the size theater that they are going to produce at the Boyd or propose to produce at the Boyd, those three theaters, I would contend, are very different 152 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 from Boston, Houston, Chicago or many of the other markets he mentioned and that they are a mere 90 minutes away from New York City. The American League of Theaters reports that only percent of audiences for Broadway theater 7 come from Philadelphia and its region. So we 8 do need to take into account that even 9 producers who are considering booking shows 10 here in Philadelphia will often ask us to wait 11 an additional season beyond the time that 12 program would be touring in other markets as 13 they still consider the Philadelphia audience 14 an audience for them in New York City. 15 In closing, I would also just like 16 to add in response to some of the other testimony that I'm not entirely in agreement with Mr. Anderson when he says that their ownership or management of theaters in markets where they seek to place shows where they have an investment interest is always the case. I do think that that should be taken into consideration. They do control investment in many of these programs. They also control the theaters in which they then play in many of 153 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 these markets, and they additionally control many of the booking and touring organizations who actually do negotiate with other producers in markets to place those shows. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to testify today, and I'm open for any questions.
Thank you very much. Councilman Nutter, do you have a statement or a question? Your light is on.
Thank you, Madam President. Good evening. Real quickly, I want to ask you a couple questions. In your testimony, you reference the public financing of this particular facility. Did the Kimmel Center receive any public financing?
The Kimmel Center received significant state financing. It 154 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 received, obviously, also significant city funding, most specifically through the grant of the land on which the center was built. We do not get ongoing subsidy from either state or -- a very small amount, obviously, through the Cultural Fund of ongoing funding from the City.
But it did receive substantial, and I mean substantial public financing.
With respect to the garage that supported, as I was told at the time when I was asked to introduce the TIF ordinance, supported the Kimmel Center -- and I'm not sure if you were around during the course of the testimony.
It was said to me by the developer of the garage that without the garage the Kimmel Center would not work, and they had lengthy testimony to support that claim. And that particular garage also required public financing. You obviously 155 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 aren't familiar with that.
I'm familiar with the garage receiving public funding or being a TIF project. I'm not familiar with the fact that there's any direct income ongoing coming to the Kimmel Center as a result of that garage.
No, there's no 9 direct income. We were told, and frankly speaking, we probably would not have been able to get the TIF bill passed if it were not its relationship to the operation and the ongoing success of the Kimmel Center, and that's what we were told by the developer and also from individuals from the Kimmel Center who testified at that particular hearing. You're not familiar with that?
I'm not familiar with what went into the rationale to allow a TIF for that garage development, no. 21
I just wanted to make those couple of points, very succinct points with respect to public financing for both the facility itself and the facility that we were told that would support the facility, 156 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 the Kimmel Center. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you, Madam President. Thank you for your testimony. I'm still a bit torn on this whole issue. I do support TIFs. I've enjoyed the support of many of my colleagues on TIFs that I've had the opportunity to introduce in my district. But the ending of your last statement where you suggest that Clear Channel -- I assumed you were referring to them -- had the ability to attract and market certain types of entertainment venues at this proposed facility. For lack of a better word, it almost sounds as though they can steer business to them that may have looked to go to other venues throughout the City. Is that an accurate account of what you were suggesting?
I find that to be somewhat disturbing. 157 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Is there anyone from Clear Channel who can help us with that comment?
Mr. Anderson, you can't have a private conversation. The stenographer has to hear you. You have to identify yourself, please.
For the record, before you answer that, I fully agree with the comments made by Mr. Cuorato earlier this afternoon that Philadelphia just needs to continue not to say, "We're satisfied with the status quo." We do need to think big. I think that most of the time my legislation bills that I've either introduced or support are in that vein. I was in New York this past Saturday. I went to see "Hairspray." And I know we're not in New York. We don't have 8 million people and the tourists that they get, but it is a wonderful experience to be able to have a variety of places to go to. And I hope that some day we could say the same for Philadelphia. 158 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 But I have a problem with the lady's comments about Clear Channel's ability and marketing ability, if you will. Could you explain a little bit about that, what Clear Channel does in addition to managing these types of facilities?
The marketing piece of it, I'm not sure that she spoke to. Clear Channel owns several radio stations and a lot of the outdoor advertising venues in the Philadelphia market. But they charge the same rates to our entertainment division as they charge to Exxon or Verizon or any of the local banks. So I would say that we have very little crossover in the marketing piece of it.
But one could assume that if there were competing interests for billboards that if the tour, the show that was being promoted would have a first preference towards getting that billboard because it kind of goes hand in hand with what Clear Channel is doing in addition to the advertising. Is that an accurate --
Again, the outdoor 159 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 and the radio pieces of the Clear Channel business, I'm not terribly familiar with them. I do know that in this market there are at any given time 30 percent of the billboard spaces that are empty, that are unused and that are available for anybody to use. So it's not a question, I don't believe, of whether it's saturated and Clear Channel product forcing somebody else out of the ability to advertise. As far as the product itself, the theatrical product itself, Clear Channel is not a controlling partner or general partner, executive producer in any of the touring Broadway shows that are on the road now.
Do you know of any situations in the other 16 facilities, entertainment facilities, theater facilities, where there's a package deal where the touring company will get a discount on advertising?
Again, Clear Channel 160 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 is a huge public entity and it is a target for accusations and for investigation.
I know you're not; she was. Clear Channel by virtue of what it is, is subject to an incredible amount of public scrutiny. And it is required by the Justice Department, for example, to maintain enough separation so that there is no 13 retrainive trade. It has accumulated the strength and the size that it has through acquisition, to a large degree. And every acquisition that they've undertaken has been scrutinized by the Justice Department to make sure that it didn't cross those lines.
Thank you. Councilman Nutter, do you have any questions or comments of Ms. Price.
Just a piece of 161 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 information. The Q and A between Councilman Clarke and Ms. Price on the issue of the garage that Councilman Clarke was talking about, my recollection of that particular TIF is there was a need for a garage at that location because that would then enable the Kimmel Center to meet its attendance projections because you had to have parking. So I don't recall the flow of funds. There may be no flow of funds, but given the location of the Kimmel at Broad and Spruce, and I think the parking lot is at 15th and Spruce diagonally across the back, the proposal at the time -- and there was a lot of discussion about why we need to do a garage, et cetera, et cetera. So there may not be any financial connection between the garage and Kimmel but, clearly, in order to meet patron attendance projections for the Center to work, there was a need for a significant parking garage nearby. So I think that is the connection between those two, as I recall it from a couple years ago.
I would say it would 162 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 definitely be seen as an amenity enhancement. And I do apologize for knowing only peripherally about what happened with the construction of the garage. It did happen before I arrived. But I will get knowledgeable about it.
There are two main companies involved here; is that right?
I don't think Ms. Price can answer that question. Is Mr. Cuorato here?
Councilman Cohen, we're waiting for Mr. Cuorato to address your question. In the interim, the Chair recognizes 163 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Councilman DiCicco.
Thank you, Madam President. Ms. Price, the Academy is a non-profit organization?
The Academy is a non-profit organization owned by the Philadelphia Orchestra and managed by Kimmel Center, Inc., which is also a non-profit organization.
Mr. Anderson, does Clear Channel ever provide any discounted or free advertising for non-profits, that you know of?
I believe they do from time to time, but, again, I'm not familiar with the advertising policies. I can tell you that our Theater Management Division definitely provides discount and free use of the theater spaces that we operate for not-for-profit organizations.
Which is the part of this combination which engages in the 164 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 heinous details of billboards?
Clear Channel Outdoor owns an amazing number of billboards in this market. I can't tell you the percentage. I'm not familiar with the specifics. But Clear Channel Outdoor is a significant operator of billboard advertising in Philadelphia.
Councilman Cohen, do you have any further questions?
Yes. I would say that that is not a plus, at least from this Councilman.
To the person from Kimmel Center. Is there a realistic thought in your mind that this new project 165 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 proposal would be harmful to Kimmel? Or do you think it would cause both to fail? What is the concern of Kimmel?
The core of the testimony really is to say that we don't feel that sufficient study to answer that question has taken place or not study that has been shared with those of us in the sector who are currently engaged as practitioners in that field. We have significant internal information to indicate that we and many of our colleagues in the field, while we have obviously grown the audience tremendously for all forms of performing arts since the opening of Kimmel Center a mere not even two years, and that to add an additional 50 percent of capacity into the marketplace at this point in time, we would just like an opportunity to at least see the study that's been prepared or input to an additional study to answer that question.
The Chair 166 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 recognizes Councilman Rizzo for a point of information.
Could I just ask a question of the Administration and also Clear Channel? Trying to be cooperative and giving me an opportunity to gather additional information and the request from the Kimmel Center, I would like to ask the Administration and Clear Channel, if we did delay and brought this over to the next Session of Council, what the impact would have on this project? I don't see this project as something that is so very time sensitive that a short delay in moving forward could cost this project. I'd like to ask the Administration and also Clear Channel to comment on that, because we're pretty reasonable people around here. And I think we have cooperated before and cooperated and waited until additional information became available. So I'd like to ask the City Rep what the ramification would be of a few months delay on this project? 167 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663
Just the question I was going to add. There seems to be a number of spots which, if cleared up, might lead to a different conclusion. We're being asked at the end of a term to rush through something very complex. Where you've studied it for years, we're asked in one afternoon to get together and figure all this out. It's a pretty difficult assignment even if we're hard-working and willing to stay late to listen. It's nonetheless very difficult. And I think Councilman Rizzo's suggestion makes a lot of sense. We would like, if possible, to conclude unanimously one way or the other, but we feel that there's so many questions unanswered. I'd like to know in addition to the question Councilman Rizzo asked, what experience do you have with the State? What is the likelihood of you getting approval from the State? Or do you feel it necessary to get approval from the City or that you'll be laughed out by the State unless you do? 168 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 That's so easy to give us an answer, but it's really not a compelling answer. If your program has merit, then both legislative bodies will be interested in the subject. So I think Councilman Rizzo's question deserves a lot of consideration.
On behalf of the Administration, Councilman, we believe we've presented a strong case for this project to move forward now. I have stated that state funding will be essential, that if we don't get the state funding, we likely do not have a project. It certainly strengthens our case with the State if we are able to say that the City has stepped forward and done its share of the public funding for this project. Again, we've made the case. We've talked about the fact that we've had certain objectives for this property. We wanted to preserve the building. We wanted to put it to an effective reuse. We believe, as Councilman DiCicco stated better than I did earlier, that we should not settle for the status quo. We should not simply say, "We have a certain 169 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 number of theaters and, gee, we can't bring another one on." We can certainly grow this market. Delay for projects like this is never a good thing. The costs will go up.
Mr. Cuorato, would you say that your general statement to that effect holds in view of Disney Quest. Nothing could have had a stronger build-up by everybody in the Administration. Everybody told us it was the most wonderful opportunity Philadelphia ever had or ever likely would get, and we cooperated fully. And yet, it didn't avail because ultimately a decision has to be the decision of the private developer.
Mr. Cuorato, I hear what you say about the state funding, but a delay wouldn't affect the state funding. Whenever we start, the process would start. I don't understand why a short delay to gather 170 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 additional information would affect any of the process. I don't believe there's some time line to apply for the state funds.
Councilman, delays are not good for any project. The costs are certainly not going to go down; they're going to go up. And, again, we believe we put before you today all of the information that you need to consider this carefully. And we hope that you will support it. I don't know that a delay would accomplish anything, quite frankly, except, No. 1, create some uncertainty as we seek state funding; and No. 15 2, certainly would lead to the project cost increasing which would further put the project in a financing situation that we'd have to find a way to deal with. I just don't believe there's any additional information or benefit to be gained by waiting. I think we've presented as much information as we had.
I did hear the request of the Kimmel Center. But, again, we don't 171 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 believe that Philadelphia is a City that cannot afford to bring on another performance venue. We should not be approaching this project as though it's status quo. It's everything stays the same. We can't afford to take on another project that would add such a great economic benefit to the City.
Again, I don't disagree. But, again, it's how the project is being financed that's the question here today. We're not against the project, it's just the way it's being funded.
If I may, Councilman, just one other point about the TIF because I know there are continued references to public subsidy, tax dollars being used to support this project, et cetera. This project represents the renovation of the Sam Eric Theater, which is a goal that we all, I think, all agree that we would like to see achieved. If the project does not happen, there are a couple of alternatives. One is the developer would be forced to demolish the building. So perhaps the No. 1 goal that we've all sought 172 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 to achieve would not happen. The developer would be forced to take the building down, as is their right, and likely there would be another development. So would we be foregoing tax revenues if there were a development? We likely would have the tax revenues, but we wouldn't have the last major movie palace in the City. If the project does go forward in accordance with the terms that we've put before you here today, we have demonstrated, I think, that there will be additional revenues to the School District over the years, 15 additional revenues to the City. We get a 16 spectacular, new performance venue in a 17 renovated Sam Eric Theater which will 18 revitalize that Chestnut Street corridor. And 19 there is no reason -- I continue to insist, 20 there is absolutely no reason why we have to settle for the status quo and we can't grow the market. It's too easy to just sit here and say, "We're here. We have these venues. We don't want anymore competition because it will take our patrons away." It's too easy to 173 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 sit here and say that.
Mr. Cuorato, I don't think anybody is saying that.
Madam President, with all due respect, I think that we've already heard testimony to that effect.
Mr. Cuorato, let me just ask a question, if I may. I know that Councilman Rizzo has made a request of you. If the TIF creation date is not until July 1, 2004, why are you requesting the approval now? Now, you said you have to go to the State. Well, this is November. I'm sure that -- wouldn't this have to be approved by the legislature? And are they going to be in session December, January, February?
Yes, President. But part of our funding program for this project is that we need the commitment of the City to help us sway the Governor to fund the rest of this project. And it's very difficult for us to be able to go ahead do all the other 174 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 preliminary studies and surveys and drawings that we would need to continue to proceed and progress this project without the City's commitment at that time. Delaying that would put us at a greater disadvantage.
Councilman Cohen, your light is still on. Is there a question or comment that you have, sir?
Yes. You know, I was holding myself back because, Mr. Cuorato, you're very insulting to us. This Council has been most cooperative in project after project. Yet you come at the end of a session, you hold a gun to our head and say, "We've given you all we have. That ought to be enough for you." I think we make the decision as to what's enough for us. You don't make that decision, Mr. Cuorato. And I resent your believing that you have the power to make that decision.
I certainly did not intend my comments that way, Councilman.
I think your 175 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 request is very reasonable. We've given you all the reasons why we want this request.
Councilman, I certainly did not intend my comments to be taken that way. I only said that in response to your question and Councilman Rizzo's question that I thought we had presented all of the information that we have.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Madam President. In response to your funding program time line, how helpful do you think it's going to be if this bill does not pass in Council or if this bill does not pass with a large majority of Council? Do you actually believe that helps in your lobbying efforts toward the Governor? 176 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663
I think the fact that this TIF legislation would be passed would be very helpful.
Regardless of whether many of the Members vote against it?
I think the passage of the legislation coupled with the public support that has been shown already to the Governor in regards to a letter campaign and all of the different documentation that has been provided by Save the Sam Eric, I think it will be very effective.
But if the Kimmel Center wants an industry analysis and several Members of the Council want more time to consider it, you think just a mere passage, not the overwhelming passage, is actually going to send a message to the Governor who is a former Mayor of this City?
I'm sure I can't say that an overwhelming passage would probably be beneficial, but I do not think that if it's not an overwhelming passage that we cannot still utilize it in a positive way in lobbying 177 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 the Governor.
Let me ask a rather cynical question. How long did you think this hearing was going to take?
Well, I knew that I had a long list of witnesses that wanted to come and testify on our behalf, so I thought it was going to be rather lengthy.
I had no idea, but I was prepared to stay here as long as was necessary because I'm committed to the project.
No, absolutely not. I know this is a challenged project, but I also know that it's a project that I'm very committed to.
I absolutely did not think this was going to be short. That's why 178 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 I came with a long list of people that I needed to support it.
I'm talking about in terms of our questioning of Goldenberg --
-- our questioning of Clear Channel, our questioning of the economic development agencies in terms of whether this project is being funded right, in terms of what information we are due before we give up taxpayer dollars and whether you sought out philanthropic sources, whether you put us first rather than go to the State, whether you thought this was a first easy step or not. I think you thought it was.
No, I didn't. I think it is your obligation to ask these challenging questions.
Even if this bill 22 passes, you should not assume that people won't even lobby against the funding for it until the Kimmel Center's questions are answered. 179 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Thank you, Madam President.
I respect your comments, but I would like to have the opportunity to respond to them. By no means did I expect this to be a short or very easy public hearing. I came here prepared to answer all of your questions. I came here prepared with people that I know that are in support of this project. I have lived and breathed this project for two years now. I'm very committed to it. I believe in it like everyone else that's here today. And I appreciate, I truly appreciate the questions that you are proposing and I am here to answer every last one because I believe in this project and I believe that the City should believe in this project and what it can do for this City.
Your two years of preparation and knowledge base does not compare to coming in here for a couple hours and think we're going to give up $5 million in Tax Increment Financing.
You're not giving up 180 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 $5 million. You are actually gaining taxes from this proposed project.
I don't believe that. I believe that if you tear it down and build something else, you get tax revenue over the next years. I believe that if you find 8 other funding rather than use Tax Increment 9 Financing, you get tax revenue. 10 This whole notion this project 11 doesn't happen without TIFs is ridiculous. 12
Then obviously you 13 are not a proponent of historic preservation. 14 That's one of the things that we are trying to 15 focus on here. 16
I don't think 17 it's worth using taxpayers' dollars. 18
Thank you. 20 Are there any other members who have questions of our witness, Ms. Price? (No response.)
Seeing none, our next witness will be Howard Hass, Friends of the Boyd. 181 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663
Hello. My name is Howard Hass. I am the Center City attorney and member of the Theater Historic Society of America who organized the Committee to Save the Sam Eric months ago. I also 7 incorporated the Friends of the Boyd which is 8 the non-profit organization dedicated to 9 saving the Sam Eric Theater. 10 A year ago we quickly gathered 5,000 11 petition signatures and handed them to Mayor 12 Street. We stood every Saturday last year in 13 front of the theater so we could meet with 14 people and explain our cause. Hundreds of 15 volunteers have demonstrated with us. 16 Why save the Sam Eric? Why have so 17 many people from web masters to graphic designers, from architects to preservationists, from film fans to community activists devoted so many hours volunteering to this cause? Because the Sam Eric, built as the Boyd, is Philadelphia's last first-run movie palace. It's opulent lobby, foyer, upstairs foyer, lower lounge, and glorious auditorium market is the last of its breed. A 182 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 building of Hollywood fantasy where for a couple of hours, the common man could feel like a king. Philadelphia cannot just be 18th Century history. We need to save our 20th century history, too, just like every other City in the United States. No American City has knocked down every last movie palace. We would be the laughing stock of the nation if we knocked down our last movie palace. We have been in the Boyd Theater many times in the last year. We have worked closely with the Goldenberg Group on plans for restoration. We have researched the theater's history, gathered artifacts from the last 75 years to exhibit in the theater and are looking forward to being part of the public/private partnership that will reopen the theater and operate it. We are very excited about the Goldenberg Group's plans. This will be a spectacular restoration and an art deco showplace akin to Radio City Music Hall that Philadelphia will be proud of. 183 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 We will help fund-raise to ensure authentic restoration of the Boyd Theater to its art deco. We have already identified foundations that if, this project becomes a reality, will help to restore the original art deco marquis and vertical sign and ticket booth and art deco class. You can't count upon them to give $18 million, but we will raise money. The Goldenberg Group found Clear Channel. Clear Channel is the A Team. They will bring in first-rate shows. The friends of the Boyd will operate a film program, a very special program of film festivals in conjunction with the Philadelphia Film Society and our own classic film series. C. Field's film at the International House as successful film fund-raising events. Ed Bacon is our special guest on December 5th when we show the "The Philadelphia Story" also at International House. I put the flyer in those folders that we provided all of you with those photographs. 184 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Real Philadelphians from the neighborhoods will be able to once again afford to feel like king for a couple hours at the Boyd by attending one of our movies. We are also speaking with the Goldenberg Group and another developer about their interest in bringing terrific restaurants to the 1900 block of Chestnut Street. And we recently insisted that the lovely art deco buildings neighboring the theater at 1900 and 1902 Chestnut Street be preserved rather than demolished. They will be preserved. But the Boyd Theater cannot be an anchor of Chestnut Street, it cannot revitalize Chestnut Street with restaurants and retail without your support. We ask for your vote today. Frankly speaking, we won't allow the demolition of Philadelphia's last movie palace. We will stand in front of the bulldozers and we will stand in front of the wrecking ball. Please don't let it come to that day. Don't vote no for yourself, vote for your children, your grandchildren and your great-grandchildren.
185 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 We gave you copies of photographs including all those school children in front of the theater 50 years ago. Please vote yes so once again the children will be able walk into the Boyd and enjoy a movie in a movie palace. Don't make the children go to New York City. Save the theater here in the great City of Philadelphia. I would like to hand in a letter from State Representative Babette Josephs which I've copied for everybody, along with a copy of my address. And I would like permission from Madam Chairman because Mr. Raymond Murray of the Philadelphia Film Society had to be in Brazil at a film event today, if I could read his short letter.
Thank you. "Dear City Council Members: Over the past 15 years, film festivals have become significant economic and cultural stimulus for cities. The prestige of a successful film festival - like those in Toronto, San Francisco, Montreal and Seattle - have 186 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 contributed to the positive image of those cities. "The Philadelphia Film Festival drew almost 60,000 patrons from around the city, region and world last April and the Philadelphia Gay and Lesbian Film Festival, the largest such festival on the east coast, attracted almost 30,000. The festivals attract out-of-towners who stay in hotels, go to restaurants, experience Philadelphia in a positive way and in turn expectedly spread the good word of our City to others. "But our film festivals have had difficulty in finding large, professional Center City venues to showcase the biggest films and stars. The Prince Music Theater is tremendous, but at 450 seats, it quickly sells out. Like all other top rank film festivals, the Philadelphia Film Society craves a large venue with a grandeur and glamour to evoke the dreams of filmmaking. That venue is obviously the Boyd. I see our opening and closing night films screened at the new Boyd as well as our most important film and honors presentations. 187 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 "The addition of the Boyd for the two film festivals can help catapult our festivals into the top ranks of American film festivals. "Sincerely, Raymond Murray." And again, I'd like for the Councilmembers to have a copy of Mr. Murray's letter.
Thank you. And State Representative Babette Josephs' letter will also be made part of the record. A copy of it will be given to the stenographer. (Copy of letter attached to transcript.)
We thank you for your time. Many of our supporters have spent these last few hours here and we thank them for coming. Are there any questions?
Thank you very much, Mr. Hass. Councilman Goode, do you have a question or comment, sir? 188 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663
Yes. Thank you for your testimony and for passion. How much money have the Friends of Boyd Theater raised from the foundation community?
7500 from the Samuel Fels Foundation. The City of Philadelphia granted 2500. The Philadelphia Film Office is here, 500 --
Well, we have a couple fund-raisers such as Jim McClellan whose been fund-raising from foundations for 35 years. And he's come to me with --
Just the 7500. If I can finish my answer. The problem is, until there's a committed project, the fund-raisers can't raise from the foundations. We've had several meetings with the foundations. They're very eager to assist the project, but they can't do it until the 189 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 project is a definite go. And that won't happen until there is City and Harrisburg money. And then we will raise the funds because we will recreate those art deco elements that have been missing or damaged over the years..
We anticipate about at least $750,000 for the art deco restoration. And we are also approaching foundations for some of the programming money for the community access as well.
Thank you. Any questions or comments from any Members of Council of Mr. Hass? (No response.)
Our next witness will be Judith Robinson. 190 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663
Thank you for your patience. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
My name is Judith Robinson. I'm here as a member of the 5th District. I am always interested in TIF financing. There have been quite a few in the 5th District. And I'm always looking at the equity in how the resources are being spread to finance various economic development projects. I want to first commend all the people who worked very hard to create the non-profit entity to support the historic significant Boyd Theater. I commend you very much on your hard work. And historically significant building preservation is very important to me also. So I want to say that very much up front. But I am very much concerned when there's a TIF being used because every time 191 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 there is a TIF used, I look at the Economic Opportunity Plan, because that's very much important to me as a community activist. So there is my area of concern. I am concerned that when there are amendments and they say that they're in the Chief Clerk's Office, and we go to do our research and the documents are not there. So I would respectfully request that the Chair really address some of those issue with documents not being in Chief Clerk's Office when we as citizens go to try to find out about what's going on and do our research. So I'm really concerned that the Economic Development Plan was just delivered today. I am concerned because every time there is an Economic Development Plan, it is written in the plan that there will be a certain number of jobs created and that it will have a certain economic impact. This project is in the 5th District, so I'm looking at it as a 5th District project. And I see where there is supposed to be X number of construction jobs and then so many permanent 192 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 jobs. I'm very much concerned that you read the Economic Plan, but the reality once the project moves forward, if in fact it does, that it's not reality. The plan and the facts are not the same. So I'm very much concerned that we have some enforcement, some follow-up on all of these plans, because we know there are tax dollars being used. Our school children are not getting funds or they're being abated for a period of time, to use that word instead of saying that they're just not getting any overall. But there are some tax benefits; I heard that today. But I'm more so concerned about the economic impact prior to or as you go along with this development. So those are my main areas of concern: That documents are not here and that although we're very much concerned about historic preservation, I'm really concerned because the Uptown is an art deco type theater also in the 5th District and this project, the Boyd, has been aggressively worked on for about 17 months, and I think if you go back to 193 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Council hearings in the past, the Uptown process has been waiting, lingering for many, many years. So I'm really concerned how equity is spread around, how PIDC uses their resources and then the economic development benefits. So I would encourage you Council folks to please look at those areas and follow up and make sure that this Economic Development Plan is, in fact, enforced. And I thank you very much for your time.
Thank you, Ms. Robinson. Our next witness is Terry Gillan. And is Mr. Gallery here, John Gallery? You will be next, sir.
Good evening, Madam President and Members of Council. I am the Democratic Leader of the 30th Ward and member of the Committee to Save the Sam Eric. I'm here testify on behalf of the proposal to provide a TIF for the Sam Eric Theater. I do this with the full knowledge of the policy issues raised by doing a new TIF. Indeed, in 194 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 my previous positions as Senior Vice President of PIDC and Director of Policy for the State's Department of Community and Economic Development, I have on many occasions wondered about the utility of TIFs. Many of us felt, for example, that the City was too liberal in the 1990s in its provision of TIFs for hotels. It is interesting that some of the opponents of this bill are concerned that the TIF might provide the Sam Eric with an unfair competitive advantage. We do need to be careful about this because in the economic development business, we provide competitive disadvantages all the time. Sometimes the law of unintended consequences means that we even put other enterprises out of business as a result of our actions. Indeed, the same argument has been made about Keystone Opportunity Zones, for example, and with good reason. At the State level we have heard many stories of businesses that have suffered because a competitor was put into a zone across the street. Policymakers need to view these 195 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 tools with more careful and thoughtfulness than they have in the past, both at the city and state level. There is, however, a good policy basis for this TIF proposal, and this is it. Historic buildings do need subsidies in order to be successful. There is no way that an old building can be rehabbed for the same cost that a new one can be built. We can debate what that premium is. It may be 10 percent or it may be 200 percent, but there is a premium for historic properties. That premium is cost worth paying. If cities, especially downtowns, are to thrive, we need policies that make it economical to rehab old buildings and discourage new construction at the expense of blighted buildings. This policy is at the heart of both Mayor Street's NTI Program and Governor Rendell's program to end sprawl and promote cities and towns throughout Pennsylvania. This policy is behind the national historic tax credit and a current effort to get a tax credit at the state level, which I support. 196 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Old buildings are worth saving and rehabbing even if they cost a little more, because in the long run they vitalize neighborhoods and fight suburban sprawl. So I would urge City Council, as you deliberate, to adopt a new policy. You should use TIFs and other economic development tools only to subsidize the cost of renovating old, historic buildings, not to build new office buildings, not to build new stadiums, just historic buildings. It is important to develop a clear policy, but also to understand that the cost of not doing anything in this case is high. Without some sort of subsidy, historic buildings such as the Sam Eric will not get reused and they will continue to blight our neighborhoods. Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Madam President. Just a few questions. In view of the fact that there are state and federal historic tax credits being sought, do you actually believe we should be 197 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 contributing in terms tax incentives in this project specifically for the purpose of historic preservation?
Yes, I do. But let me clarify. There are no state historic tax credits right now; that's in the form of legislation that's pending in the legislature, so they don't exist at the state level. I think they should. But, yes, I do think it's appropriate to do it at the city level.
Second question is, do you actually believe that a TIF is required for this project?
I believe that some sort of a subsidy is required for this project. Now, whether that has to be in the form of a TIF, I don't know. I honestly am not privy to the numbers, so I don't know if a TIF is required. It ought to be the last form of a requirement. You and I, I think, are in agreement on this point.
Because we are in agreement, I will ask the last question. How do you think the use of TIFs in 198 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 the '90s in terms of hotel development and even within this project, even though you haven't looked to numbers, fit into the future context of what we need to do in terms of tax reform in the City?
Oh, my God, that's such a big question. How does it fit within the context of tax reform?
Can we continue to do -- supposedly, we are doing TIFs because of the lack of competitive nature of our tax structure, and continue to do it and have done 20, projects potentially for half a billion 15 in TIFs. If those projects have gone through 16 or we continue to do TIFs because of our 17 competitive disadvantage in terms of tax 18 structure, doesn't it take away from our 19 ability to really do comprehensive tax reform 20 and improve the business environment for all 21 of Philadelphia? 22
Well, what I think it 23 does, Councilman, is I think doing subsidies 24 or policy through the Tax Code is always 25 dangerous because it's off the books. I think 199 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 that it would be better to provide these sort of subsidies up front as a line item so that everybody can see them, because when we do them as a tax abatement or a tax subsidy, they get hit and the cost gets hidden and then the law of unintended consequences comes in. And when you start fiddling with the market, which I think is what you're getting at, you often have strange results. So I think it's better to do these things not through the Tax Code, but as up front subsidies where we can be clear about what we're doing and be clear about what the costs are.
Thank you. I just wanted to have a good economic development discussion with you. (Laughter.)
Thank you very much, Ms. Gillan. Mr. John Gallery. It's very nice seeing you. Thank you for your patience.
It's always a pleasure to be here. My name is Gallery, I'm here as 200 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Execute Director of the Preservation Alliance. I've handed in a written testimony, and in the interest of time, I'm not going to read that. I'd like to just speak to a few of the points that are in that and also to some of the discussion that's gone on. First of all, I would like to encourage all of you, if you have not already, to pick up the manila file folder that was distributed by Howard Hass to each of you that has in it some photographs of this building. I think if you look at that building and ask yourself the question, "Do you want to be the City Council which authorizes the demolition of that historic resource?" I hope those photographs will make you think twice. This is a unique building in Philadelphia. It is one of most beautiful buildings of the period that we have. It is one of the greatest art deco buildings in this City, of which there are relatively few examples. And it's an important building, not just as a piece of architecture, because it represents an important social and cultural 201 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 phenomena of our past. I cannot think of any other building in Philadelphia at this time that has the potential of the Boyd that is more important to be preserved. In my long history of work in Philadelphia, I have not seen as much public support for the preservation of the Boyd as I have seen for any other preservation project for the Litt Brothers building back in the 1980s. This project has brought out thousands of people. And if Council has an interest in what is important to the citizens of Philadelphia, I think the incredible response there's been to this shows that this has a tremendous interest. But because this is a unique property, preserving it and developing it is also a unique problem. I looked at this building in the 1980s as a private consultant. I've looked at it again as the Goldenberg Group has studied this. Finding a use for this building is very difficult. And we have been blessed with the opportunity that has come here through the participation of Clear 202 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Channel. There are relatively few, and I am not sure there are any other, potential uses that can preserve this building other than the proposal that's been put before you. And so the choice really is not between if we don't do this, what else will happen. The choice is, losing this building or preserving it. A second point that has been made about the market issue, I'd like to remind you that Clear Channel is already involved in programming shows into both the Academy and the Merriam Theater. Why would they come into the City to do another facility if they didn't believe there was a strong market here, given the fact that they already know the market here, they're already booking things here? They're going to bring to this facility things that would not go to the Academy or someplace else. They're going to bring things which will never come to Philadelphia if we don't have the resource of the Boyd. Lastly, let me just say I've been involved in a lot of financing of historic preservation and other development projects in 203 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Philadelphia. It has not been unusual for me to look for a combination of public funds that may be 40 percent of the project financing for a difficult project. When I structured the financing for the Litt Brothers project, the percentages of public support were very high. And had there been a TIF Program at the time, I would have been here then with the developers trying to get your support. This is an important project for this City Council to be behind. Its financial support is critical to the completion of the project. And on behalf of the entire preservation community, I strongly urge you as a Committee and as a Council as a whole to really put your full enthusiastic support behind this project. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Gallery. And we will make certain that your testimony will be given to the stenographer so it will be transcribed in full.
Councilman 204 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Goode has a comment or question of you.
Thank you, Madam President. I hear your testimony that there should be some local public support in the name of preservation. But in your judgment, does that have to be Tax Increment Financing?
Councilman, if you have $5 million from another source that you'd like the City to put into it, I think we'd be happy to have it.
I'm sure there are many sources publically and privately. My question to is, in your judgement, does it have to be Tax Increment Financing?
I think I answered your question. I said, if you as a City Council would like to appropriate $5 million from a different source in the City other than Tax Increment Financing, that would be fine. But do I think it's necessary --
Councilman Goode, I'd 205 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 appreciate it if you'd let me finish answering your question.
I'm answering the question. Yes, I do believe that since you have no other way of supporting this project, this Tax Increment Financing is essential and is appropriate for the City to do and it is necessary for the project, yes.
So, in your judgment, there is no other form of financing other than Tax Increment Financing?
Every other form of financing is already in there. Clear Channel has already a very substantial equity commitment. All of the financing that can be obtained through federal historic tax credits is already in there. There is no other "in there" to be had. So yes, we need it, absolutely.
Thank you 206 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 very much. Thank you, Mr. Gallery. Adrian Fine.
Good evening. My name is Adrian Fine, I am the Director for the Northeast Field Office of the National Trust for Historic Preservation based here in Philadelphia. C. I just have some brief remarks. On behalf of the National Trust and our 11,000 members in Pennsylvania, I'm here in support of this TIF District for the Historic Body Theater. In 2001, the National Trust for Historic Preservation placed historic movie palace theaters on our America's 11 most endangered places listing. And we wanted to draw attention to the issues impacting these types of highly specialized historic buildings. We also wanted to promote viable alternatives to demolition -- and, certainly, that's what we've seen, demolition 207 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 after demolition -- across the country and many creative partnerships that can and should occur to put these landmarks back into use. For these reasons, the National Trust has a strong interest in Philadelphia's Boyd Theater and the efforts that can result in a preservation outcome. Boston, Detroit, Los Angeles, Washington, Atlanta, Baltimore, Chicago, Tampa and Minneapolis are just a few recent examples of cities where restored historic theaters have become significant entertainment venues and tourism attractions. We strongly believe a restored Boyd Theater has the same, if not greater potential to serve as an anchor and contribute directly to the growing revitalize of the Chestnut Street corridor. Public investment funding for a restored Boyd Theater also has the ability to generate direct and indirect economic benefits to the Philadelphia region and the Commonwealth. And as a cultural attraction and companion piece, the Boyd Theater undoubtedly will also further the success 208 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 already achieved through Avenue of the Arts initiative and Kimmel Center instead of detracting to from it. TIF funding has fostered in many other cities the restoration of significant architectural landmarks. It's intended to support development only in properties where improvements won't otherwise take place or, in other words, where it isn't otherwise likely to be cost effective. And that's exactly what we have with the case of the Boyd Theater. TIF incentives such as this should be used as a gap filler and as a project enablement. Without TIF support, we have no doubt and we are certainly concerned that the Boyd Theater may not and will not be restored and potentially lost down the road. There is a precedent for doing this, supporting arts and culture as a driver of economic development here and in other places such as Cincinnati, such as Pittsburgh, such as Chicago, for instance. 2 million in direct subsidies while generating 102 million in private investment. This includes the Oriental, the Palace, the Goodman, and the Chicago. In Minneapolis, the City has taken an active role purchasing three historic theaters and restoring two in the last 10 year. F. Keefe, the Modern, and the Paramount. Pittsburgh's Cultural Trust has assisted five historic theaters. The 1927 Coronado Theater in Rockford, Illinois, has benefited from a direct $7 million direct subsidy from the City. Detroit's Theater District, one of the largest in the country, specific the Fox, the Capital and Gem and others have generated tremendous commercial interest and investment in the surrounding area with new start-up restaurants, comedy clubs and others. 210 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Lastly, Center City Philadelphia has only one remaining intact 1920s spectacular art deco movie palace, and they can't afford to lose it. To the City's credit, a restored and re-opened Boyd Theater can make a significant and positive economic impact on the Philadelphia region. However, it needs the City's help to make this happen. Therefore, the National Trust for Historic Preservation certainly urges you to support this TIF District application.
And I will say lastly that in our work all across the country in community after community where we're working with groups like Save the Sam Eric and local governments and groups like Clear Channel, this is what we hear over and over and over, is that these types of projects are one of the most difficult types to get off the ground. These buildings are highly specialized, highly costly to rehabilitate and bring them back on line. And that's certainly the case with the Boyd Theater. And in all of the examples where you have success stories from all the 211 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 cities I've mentioned and many others, it's resulted in a direct and tangible involvement by the local government in helping to make that happen. So we're certainly urging you to do that with the Boyd Theater as well. So I thank you.
Thank you very much, sir. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
In your citing of TIF projects or TIF financing for historic preservation of cultural districts in other cities around the nation, did the establishment of those TIF districts and did that TIF financing -- was it directed toward a single property, or was it actually directed toward the preservation of a district and several properties within that district?
In the case of Chicago, it was directed towards specific theater buildings.
I'm sorry, can you repeat that? 212 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663
In the case that I cited for Chicago with the four theaters that I specifically mentioned as far as TIF assistance --
So in your knowledge of how TIFs are done in other cities, whether it's for historic preservation for cultural districts, there are probably several different developers and several properties involved in the creation of that TIF district; is that correct.
Our next witness is Mr. Michael Barnes. Mr. Barnes, please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
Madam President, 213 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Members of Council, my name is Michael Barnes. I'm the business manager of Stagehands Local No. 8 here in Philadelphia. I'm also a Vice President on the International's Executive Board for Theatrical Union in North America. I come before the Council in support of the bill. I don't have a lot of stats to put forth. I am basically coming from my knowledge of the theater industry as person whose family's been involved in it since 1917. My grandfather got into the union in 1917. My father was in 1947. I have brothers, sisters, nephews, cousins that all work in the theaters. My father who was the stage manager for the Philadelphia Orchestra from 1953 to '86 and my oldest brother currently now has his job and has managed the Philadelphia Orchestra for the last 50 years. So we have somewhat of a knowledge of the theater industry in the City of Philadelphia. I started in the industry in 1980 in the Merriam Theater which was then the Shubert Theater. " I remember Mickey Rooney going out on stage and making a comment that he knew he was in Philadelphia because of the orange paint on the walls. At the time, the owner of the theater had run out of money and couldn't renovate the place so he left the primer on the walls. And I bring that story up because I think it's relative to some of the concerns that are expressed to so many other employers that are in the City, and I have a relationship with those employers because I negotiate with them and represent the stagehands, ushers, ticket sellers, and wardrobe people that work in their theaters. And I'm in somewhat of a unique situation because a lot of times I sit on the opposite side of the table from Dave Anderson of Clear Channel, but today I'm on the same side. When I started working in the Merriam Theater in 1987, I remember there was a concern expressed by so many other theaters at the time that the competition from the Merriam, there wasn't enough product. I 215 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 became the business agent in 1992, after working at the Merriam for five years and watching the industry build up with the two theaters that were in town. In about five or seven years I was contacted about the Kimmel Center. And people asked me if we would be support of a new performing arts center, which absolutely we were in favor of. We thought it would enhance the theatrical community in the City of Philadelphia. And I negotiated with Dave Anderson during the construction of Kimmel Center. And the concern that Dave Anderson expressed to me was that, with the new theater, would they be able to book enough shows in Philadelphia. And I find it ironic now that both people have a concern. My feeling on it is that looking at what's happened to the industry, looking at the amount of jobs it's provided for my membership and the amount of product that has increased as the theaters increased, I think -- while I don't have the exact numbers and I would have prepared myself if I knew it was needed -- I think the trends indicate that 216 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 additional theaters do mean additional product and additional jobs. For IATSE who had 75 stagehands in 1987 with the initiation of a ushers local at the Kimmel Center, we now have over 500 members, and we continue to grow. In regards to income, our local's income has seen an increase over a thousand percent in the last 10 years because of the entertainment industry and the growth of the additional theaters in the Kimmel Center. There's another trend that I think we can look at to maybe address some of the concern, and that's the trend that occurred in the arena industry. In the arena industry, we only had one arena at one point in Philadelphia, which was the Spectrum Arena. We then built at the time I guess it was First Union Center, Global Spectrum, now the Wachovia Center.
There was a concern whether we could sustain two arenas, and then the Liacouras Center was built and then the Tweeter Center was built and the Sovereign Bank Arena was built in Trenton, and the 217 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Convention Center opened up in Atlantic City, and we upwards to eight arena venues within a 60 mile radius. This was in an area where we've only one arena upwards to years ago. 6 As a result of those eight arenas, we've seen 7 an increase of employment and we've seen an 8 increase in product. 9 The same issues have occurred down 10 at Penns Landing. We now have two stages at Penn's Landing. We do shows at the Electric Factory, we do shows at the Mann Music Center and Tweeter. And, again, we've just seen an increase in job and an increase in income opportunities for our members. So because of those two issues, I do stand in support. I think for the economic reasons and the jobs reasons, this is good for the City. But on a personal note, I can say being in this industry and knowing what's going on in North America, people are not rushing in to build these theaters throughout the country. The only company that I've seen that's been actively, aggressively putting these theaters up in Boston and Baltimore has 218 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 been Clear Channel. If they leave and we don't make the deal with them, I don't see another suitor coming in to fill the void. And while, yes, I do think that the building will be replaced by another tax ratable, you cannot replace a theater of that magnitude and you can't replace the cultural benefit that a theater brings to this City. When I bring people into the City from all over the country, which I do, I drive them by the Kimmel Center, I drive them by the Convention Center, I drive them by the Wachovia, the Lincoln Financial Field, I drive them by the buildings that demonstrate what the City has culturally. And it does give us identity and I think it does make us recognizable as a first class City throughout the United States. I talk to people all the time in my travels in the United States and Canada, and I think the addition of a 2300-seat, first-rate, Broadway theater will do a lot to elevate the status of this City.
Thank you very much. 219 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 Are there questions or comments of this witness? (No response.)
Good evening President and Councilwomen, Councilmen. We're here because we feel that the investment that the City will be making on the movie theater, besides for the art which is very substantial, important for the City of Philadelphia, also for the vitality of the neighborhood. I own and operate three restaurants in the City Philadelphia. And I've been a pioneer on Front Street, on Front and Market. And I also adventured myself a few years ago on Chestnut Street. And I look at the area and I visualize the area to be like the rest of Center City, like Walnut Street, 18th Street, 19th Street. And I felt that Chestnut at one point in this City was a very important avenue. And I believe that with this investment that the City will be making with 220 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 the new Goldenberg proposal, it would be beneficial for the economic aspect and also it will be an investment in the future, more revenue, more of everything. And I'm all for it for this substantial investment that the City will be making.
My name is Anthony Massopolo (ph), I'm the general manager of one of Giussepe's restaurants. And I think we have to look at the bigger picture and look at how much impact it's going to have on the whole area of Chestnut Street. The restaurants, more employment, more revenue, more taxes. You know, we're looking at 5 million from the City, but we're also looking over a long period of time of generating a lot more than that $5 million that they're putting into it. I urge City Council to kind of just support this. And I think that the City needs another venue like this. Other people are against it, but competition in any business is 221 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 always good, and I think we can always bring in more people. Philadelphia is a great City and I think we shouldn't limit ourselves to what we have, we should continue to strive or grow. And I think that this is something that will really benefit that area as well as the City of Philadelphia. Thank you.
Thank you very much. And thank you for your patience. You've been very patient waiting there. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. I too would like thank my wonderful friends Giussepe and Anthony for your patience, for being here all day, and for your contribution to our City. Certainly, we know all that you've done for that area and all that you've done to help people. People don't realize how much you've done to help people in need. And certainly we thank you. You've helped us as we try reach out for even the homeless. People don't know that. But we 222 11/19/03 - WHOLE - BILL 030663 know your love for the City, of your contributions, not only for South Philly, but to people everywhere. And we say thank you.
Thank you. I also want you to know that we will doing this year the homeless dinner again. You will get all my full support for all the pastry. And I heard that we might have a little problem with the dinners. So you call me and I try to help you on the other side as well.