you had engaged a a traffic and parking operations engineer to like let you know what the impacts were
going to be of of this new development in terms of traffic on Ridge Pike and similar matters yeah
I was concerned about how the traffic how this was going to affect our our local traffic patterns and
I, as a resident and as the person right next door, I felt like I really would like to learn
about that. Okay. And so Terra Firma started asking you to meet with them and you asked
several times, you said, I'd like to meet, but please send me your written plans for your revised
plan so I can see what you're proposing. And you had set up an appointment for September 10th,
but then it had to be canceled because of your car broke down, correct?
Yeah, unfortunately, I had to go and get two new tires out in Norristown because of Philadelphia potholes, I'm afraid, are very damaging to tires.
Yeah, unfortunately, I had to go and get two new tires out in Norristown.
And it was an unsafe condition. I had to go and get new tires.
So you intended to meet with them and you did attend on September 10th, the Ridge Park and whatever UC Community Association meeting is where they showed the plans, but they didn't hand out.
They didn't provide anybody with actual access.
access, you couldn't download them and look at them or, or printed, right?
That was September 10th. That's correct. Right.
So then you sent an email.
So just as just so I understand this is 12.
Yeah, this is 12 houses. Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
She started asking for them in August and she didn't get them until September
13th. So, you know, she, she wanted to see it before. Correct. Is it,
am I correct? But I'm just saying it's 12 houses we're talking about. Yes, correct. Okay. So,
okay. So you were finally given the plan in mid-September and it had a notation that it
could be changed if the applicant wanted to, correct? Correct. And so you didn't know which
plan would go forward, in fact. Not at all. Right. And at that same time, neither the
zoning board of adjustment website nor ATLAS linked to the revised plan or the second
application for a zoning permit. That's correct. Right. So it was unclear what they were going
forward with. Yeah. Okay. But you attend the meetings, you ask questions of the architect
about things like the number of houses, the amount of air and light, the circulation on site,
how will garbage trucks navigate the site, what will happen on Ridge Pike, correct?
Not Ridge Pike, Ridge Avenue. I'm sorry.
So on October 16th, 2024, you were finally sent the notice of refusal of the revised plan.
And that was the same day as the Durnley Park Civic Association meeting.
That's correct.
So you were only given hours to digest the information before your civic was going to vote on it.
That's correct.
Okay. As soon as you received the notice of refusal, did you start reaching out to the traffic engineer? And did I start reaching out to the traffic engineer again?
I asked you to do so. Yes.
Because until then, we weren't sure they were going forward with that plan and that had been refused and that had been healed.
That's correct.
And at that point, did you learn from the traffic engineer that his mom was diagnosed with cancer and was entering hospice?
And then last week that she was not expected to live much longer and he just couldn't turn around, do a revised report for you?
That's correct.
Okay. So, Dot, tell me about your objections in general to the 12 units.
Well, the application for variance, it doesn't, we got, we went down to L&I and even in the first place, it didn't provide meaningful answers about why the variances are required or requested.
It contains only conclusory statements without facts about why this is the minimum variance and why traffic and parking won't be a problem.
So I asked at the meetings, what's the hardship and why so many units?
I didn't get the answers.
So I'm here to find out these answers and more for the first time when they should have been provided in the application.
So here you are and you've seen the revised plans.
We haven't seen all of the applicants' exhibits, but in good faith, we're trying to engage with them.
Based on what you know and the limited amount of materials you've seen, what are your objections to the revised plans?
Well, during the October 16th meeting, that was when I was able to share the most detailed plan we've seen before with the numbers on it.
And I pointed out to our membership the separation between the houses, which was, as has been asserted earlier, 8 to 10 feet between the houses.
We could look at the plans.
I looked at the separation between my house and my next door neighbor's house. It's 23 feet.
I looked at separations on Atlas between houses on Harmon Road, which are newer houses that were
built and they are 30 feet apart. And when I asked Ms. Lachman, 13 feet, 15 feet, 30 feet apart,
that's the zoning requirement. That's the zoning requirement between single family houses in an
RSD 3 zoning district. So it's the density. And again, when you look at the plans, you can just
see that these houses are much closer together, even than the houses on Roxburgh Reserve,
houses on Harmon Road. This is still a very dense development. So that is an enormous
This is still a very dense development. So that is an enormous concern for us. Light, air, noise, etc.
Before you go on to the next, did you go to Epiphany Place to take a look at a similar development, at a similar lot size that was developed?
I did.
How many units and does it have a cul-de-sac?
It certainly has a cul-de-sac. I couldn't be sure of how many units. I'll accept the
testimony earlier that it's less than 12. It certainly looked that way. It's behind a local
grocery store called the ShopRite. And I had not driven in there before. It's up a slight slope.
It feels very navigable. You can drive in, you can turn around, and you can drive out again.
It's an extremely good, smart design, which unfortunately is sadly lacking still, despite our protestations in the proposal that we see before us.
That is that's one of our major concerns.
OK, Dot, last question.
What are your concerns about the parking, loading and internal circulation and egress out to Ridge Avenue from this common driveway?
Again, it's 18 feet wide.
How are they going to be able to turn around delivery vehicles, repair vehicles, larger vehicles like moving trucks, and even in a case of emergency, emergency vehicles that are going to have to turn?
Inevitably, and I believe the traffic engineer, Mr. Savage, earlier testified, and our engineer, Mr. Tovani, concluded that such large vehicles, because of the turning radius, would not be able to navigate this skinny driveway in the middle of this development, and they'd have to back out onto Ridge Avenue.
Now, again, some of you may not know this, but some years ago, there was an unfortunate accident
where a young girl was killed, fatality, right outside Roxburgh Reserve. Those people from
Roxburgh Reserve probably came to understand this because there's a memorial cherry tree there
in a little garden area, which has been preserved. My understanding is, having talked to another
neighbor at 7350. There was a car totaled on Ridge Avenue, happily with no fatality this time.
But it's a dangerous street. Ridge Avenue is fast and dangerous and has a curve and almost like a
blind hill as you come around it and you come down towards Domino Lane. So it's a great concern.
Backing vehicles onto Ridge Avenue, onto a busy street, is a recipe for disaster.
There's bike lanes.
There's going to be overspill parking that inevitably will be up and down Ridge Avenue,
and will also spill possibly onto Harmon Road.
We are, we would like, well, I'll leave it at that.
And then, finally, it's not the minimum variance necessary to afford relief.
20 units, we believe, are too many for the—
Well, this one's 12, not 12.
My bad, excuse me.
I'm looking at 12 and saying 20.
Pardon me.
12 units, we believe, I believe, and my civic believes, is too many units for the site.
Ms. Lachman, are you done with that?
Is that your last question?
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
All right.
Ms. Misner, how long do you think your cross will take?
Not long, sir.
All right.
Why don't you proceed?
Thank you.
Ms. French, are you able to see the zoning notice that was sent on August 23rd on your screen?
Can you confirm you received this letter?
I did.
Can you describe, read the product description that's listed there?
Property description. This property is a project. Project description. Excuse me. The design of this proposed project has been revised since the last public meeting held to discuss the project on July 9th, 2024. The project now proposes new construction of 12, numeral 12, single family houses with 12, numeral 12, accessory parking spaces.
so when you testified that you first received notice of 12 in september that was incorrect
correct well this is a letter not a notice this is a public notice that's in accordance
with the zoning code that she just testified she received this is on august 23rd okay
so she was aware of the reduction to 12 in august my clients immediately reached out to discuss with
My clients immediately reached out to discuss with her thereafter.
her thereafter, she
She refused to meet with them, whatever the circumstances are.
We understand things happen.
We provided the plans with the reduced density, and you received those plans on the 13th, correct?
I'm sorry, Ms. French, excuse me.
I guess I didn't just refuse to meet with them.
I wanted to see the site engineer's site plan.
I would meet with them if they would have supplied that to me, but they didn't.
But they did on the 13th, correct?
Eventually they did, yes.
But, you know, when I, Mr. Robertson asked me to meet by mail on the 5th, and I, you know, I asked for the plans.
And then I said, we'll talk about it when I have the plans.
And they've been willing to meet with you the entirety of the time, is that correct?
They've never once refused to meet with you?
Yeah, and by the same token, I have been willing to meet with them, too.
So when they presented the revised plans on the 18th of September to your meeting, which was not a coordinating RCO meeting, but an additional meeting that they agreed to attend, they presented 12 units, correct?
We were currently an active civic at that time. So I do think that we were the coordinating. We were the coordinating.
coordinating um the two court coordinating rcos are the rcos appointed by council
councilman jones appointed upper rocksboro civic and ridge park civic to serve as coordinating
rcos for this project that is park was not an rco when this application was made yeah but we were
at that point and the the project had been revised and and and we were and i also sought um sought
clarification from mr goins at the rco office and and he was inconclusive but he didn't say no you're
not so we yeah we i think we were i think we returned the governing and we are the governing
rco for for dormy park then and currently when we became active we became the governing
i i think i think we're you know it's apparent to me that i understand mr chairman are there
two other rcos were the coordinating rcos and it looks like your client decided to meet with
during after that we did yes yes in an effort to meet with everybody our records still show
that two coordinating rcos were ridge park and uh upper roxburgh that's right
um miss french can you describe the development that's located at 493 harman road
493. I think that's across the street from me. It's houses that are adjoined together
and are not single family. So I'm not quite sure of the exact technical term, but they
are co-joined row houses, maybe? I'm not sure.
There are eight townhomes, which are attached homes that are connected, right?
So the 8 to 10 feet proposed between these homes is significantly larger than zero space between those homes directly located in front of your property, correct?
Are they pre-existing, non-conforming? I mean, what are they, new or old?
I'm sorry. And in Roxborough Reserve, would you agree that there are twins as well as single families?
I think there are some twins it's I haven't gone over there and looked at them very closely but
yes I think there are maybe six homes that are twins I'm not sure yes so they're connected as
well um so just to establish the record there are other homes in the immediate vicinity that are
much closer together than what we're proposing today the proposed 12 single family homes are
detached as is consistent with the rsd3 zoning district d standing for detached and they are
single family for purchase okay you have to establish whether they're old pre-existing
non-conforming or new construction i'm not sure the nature of the objection but sure
um those homes exist today our proposal is consistent with the surrounding properties
and we have remained as amenable to community input throughout this process as any other
developer has. We've started meeting in February of 23. We're now at the end of October of 24.
We've reached a amenable project to both coordinating RCOs and the councilman's office.
So we have no further questions for Ms. French. We unfortunately are not able to please everybody,
but we have met with everybody. We've responded to everybody. We've been amenable to
We've been amenable to the majority of suggestions, but we're not going to make everybody happy.
the majority of suggestions, but we're not going to make it.
So here's what we're going to do.
We're going to have a resumptive hearing.
The purpose of that resumptive hearing will for Ms. Logman to introduce her traffic study expert.
As soon as we finish that, everything else will be closed.
We're going to open this up to the board, to the public, and also to the Planning Commission.
We both agree?
Yes, but Mr. Chairman, I request that I be given copies of all exhibits that were submitted to the board and for all, as well as CVs for everyone who testified here today.
And if I want to ask more questions after I've had a chance to review them, I request they be brought back.
Mr. Chairman, she's requesting a full new hearing.
No, I think you can make reference if you want, but we're not going to bring everybody back. We specifically, we laid this out to you before we started. We're going to be closed. Listen to me, listen to me. We're going to close today, other than your traffic expert when they come back.
Ms. Mesmer will have a chance to talk to your traffic expert, and then I'm going to open it up to other people, the public, the planning commission, and also the board. Okay?
Thank you, sir.
Please just note my objection for the record.
I most certainly will.
And the coordinating RCO testified today
so she doesn't have to come back.
I think she just had a comment
that she wanted to get on the record
before we close out today.
Who's that?
Marlene Schleifer.
You're coordinating any RCOs
when I open it up to the public.
Both coordinating RCOs can...
So she'll have to come back?
Yes, yes.