COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON LAW AND GOVERNMENT Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, October 29, 2024 2:15 p.m. PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN KATHERINE GILMORE RICHARDSON, CHAIR COUNCILWOMAN KENDRA BROOKS, VICE-CHAIR COUNCILWOMAN CINDY BASS COUNCILWOMAN RUE LANDAU
Good afternoon, everyone. I now note that the hour has come. Clerk, will you please call the roll to take attendance. Members that are in attendance will please indicate that you are present when your name is called.
Present. Thank you. I also note that Councilmembers Isaiah Thomas and Councilmember O'Rourke are present for this hearing today. A quorum of the Committee is present and this hearing is now called to order. This is the public hearing of the Committee on Law and Government regarding Resolution No. 11 240834 and Bill Nos. 240004 and 240817. Clerk, will you please read the titles of the bills and the resolution.
Bill No. 17 240004, an ordinance amending Title 11 ("Streets") and Title 19 ("Miscellaneous") of The 20 Philadelphia Code to amend 21 requirements concerning publication of notices and newspapers, all under certain terms and conditions. Bill No. 240817, an ordinance providing for the submission to the qualified electors of the City of Philadelphia of the proposal set forth in a Resolution 5 approved by Council proposing an amendment to the Philadelphia Home Rule Charter relating to the creation of the Philadelphia Prison Community Oversight Board and authorizing the appropriate officers to publish notice and to make arrangements for the special election, all under certain terms and conditions. And Resolution No. 16 240834, a resolution proposing an amendment to the Philadelphia Home Rule Charter to provide for the creation of the Philadelphia Prison Community Oversight Board and the Office of Prison Oversight and providing for the submission of the amendment to the electors of Philadelphia.
Thank you. Before I call on the Clerk to call the first panel, I'd like to recognize any of my colleagues who would like to make opening remarks. The Chair now recognizes Councilmember Thomas.
Good morning, Madam Chair. I'm going to be very brief. First of all, I want to start by saying thank you for your patience. For those who don't know, this is something that we tried to look at last year. We appreciate you and your team for working with us to get us to this point today. I want to thank the prime sponsor of this bill, Councilmember Nicolas O'Rourke who's behind me. Excuse my back, good brother. But we appreciate you, your entire team and every -- oh, I'm sorry. He's not behind me. But either way we appreciate you, your entire team for working with us, the work that you've done prior to being on City Council as well as working together collaboratively. It has been amazing. I want to thank all of our partners for helping us get to this point. Of course, I had to thank the Public Defender's Office. Ms. Hudson and her team are amazing. A huge shout-out to Kate for her leadership and the work that she's doing and all of the folks at the Public Defender's Office who's been working with us. I want to definitely give a huge thank you to the team at Amistad Law Center. I know Saleem who's the Executive Director couldn't be here, but he's a great brother. We appreciate him and the entire team for working with us throughout the course of this process to get us to the point that we are right now. I also have to thank the Mayor and the Admin for agreeing to a bunch of different things as it relates to helping us getting across the finish line. So thank you, Mayor Parker. And I have to thank Councilmember Helen Gym, former Councilmember Helen Gym, who prior to me was the primary sponsor for this legislation and led this advocacy effort and clearly resigned from City Council to do things a little different than work in this legislative body. But without her, we would not be to this point. And of course, last but not least, the 16 members of City Council who co-sponsored this legislation who all agree that we have issues as it relates to our prisons and we need to do something different as it relates to accountability. I want to also thank the union members of District Council 33 as well as District Council 47, not just for being here today but for agreeing to be good partners with my office on a number of different issues, and this issue is no 12 different. To my colleagues that's on the Committee, I'm respectfully asking for your vote today. There will be a number of things that will come up both positive and negative as it relates to this particular administra -- this particular bill. And I want you to know that myself and Councilmember O'Rourke, we're committed to working with the Admin from now until the last Council session to make sure that we have a product that we are all proud of. So even after today, praying that you all support this legislation and pass it out of Committee, myself as well as Councilmember O'Rourke, along with all of the parties who I just thanked, are committed to having a working group where we will meet once a week so we can finalize what this bill will look like and be able to pass it out of City Council before we all go on "recess," -- because it's not going to be a recess -- but before we go on recess this December. So thank you all. I appreciate you, colleagues. Madam Chair, thank you for giving me a few minutes just to address the Committee. Thank you all.
Thank you, colleague. And I thank you for your ongoing work on this legislation. I'd like to also take a moment to recognize Councilmember O'Rourke.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to the members. Good afternoon and thank you to everyone who's come out for a hearing on this critical topic of prison oversight. A big, big, big, big ol thank you goes to of course Councilmember Thomas, Majority Whip Thomas and his team, for holding and pushing this work forward over the last couple of years, also to the Prison Society for their work and their contribution to this effort, their standing vanguard and sentinel on these matters, and really all the aforementioned groups and contributors that Whip Thomas has already named. I'm grateful for all the different stakeholders who have been part of the conversation throughout from our Public Defenders to Philadelphians, working to reimagine how community safety is made real, union workers and the Parker Administration. It's an honor to roll alongside you all as you do your essential work. I'll be brief because I believe one of the panelists, Ms. Jacobson, will speak to this much better than I can. But we're here because prison oversight is a sore spot for PDP because previous efforts haven't had enough independence, enough influence, oomph, gravitas to help address the serious and meet the serious situation that we have up on State Road right now. Just last week another case was filed over a death in that system that occurred last year, a needless death, of course which there have been far too many in recent years. And, yes, we know about and we celebrate the improvement that we've seen at PDP, like the reduction of the health care backlog and a data collection team that's reworking the old process for tracking information. This is all of paramount importance and we acknowledge that and celebrate that. And also, given how much PDP is costing the City when it comes to the public purse and public perception, it's key to create real active oversight for the system and it is our job as the holders of the purse strings of this town to see to it that's the case. So I'm excited, encouraged and ever thankful for the opportunity to help put this opportunity for oversight before Philly voters. And again, this too is what democracy looks like. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chair now recognizes Councilmember Thomas.
I just want to put on the record that I apologize and I said the wrong name. I said Amistad and I meant Abolitionist. So the Abolitionist Law Center, thank you all, appreciate the work that you're doing. And I just want put that on the record. We know names are important. So thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Thank you, Councilmember Thomas. And thank you, Councilmember O'Rourke. Thank both of you for your great work on this legislation and for your continued commitment to the Committee that you'll continue to work through any additional opportunities with the legislation. And so, we will now proceed with Bill No. 240004. Testimony was submitted in writing. The Administration is available for questions only. Colleagues, if you have any questions regarding Bill No. 11 240004, I will now recognize you for any questions. (No response.)
Okay. Seeing none, are there any additional witnesses here to testify for Bill No. 240004? (No response.)
Okay. Seeing none, we will now proceed with our next bill, which will be Bill No. 240817 and Resolution No. 240834. Clerk, will you please call the first panel we have to testify on Bill No. 240817 and Resolution No. 240834. And thank you to the Administration official who was here for the previous bill. We appreciate your presence. I see you here. Thank you very, very much.
Commissioner Michael Resnick. (Witness approached Witness table.)
Okay. Thank you very, very much. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER RESNICK: Good afternoon, Majority Leader Gilmore Richardson, Chair of the Committee on Law and Government and members of the Committee. My name is Michael Resnick. I'm the Commissioner of the Philadelphia Department of Prisons. I'm here to provide testimony in response to Bill No. 4 240817 and Resolution 240834, which propose a Home Rule Charter change to allow for a Prison's Oversight Review Board. First, I want to state that I respect the motivation for this measure sponsored by Councilmember Thomas and co-sponsored by Councilmember O'Rourke. I noted that it stems from a deep concern for the safety, health and well-being of the incarcerated people who are within our care. It is a concern that I very much share as the Commissioner. However, the PDP does not believe that this proposed Charter change is necessary for the following reasons: First, there was already a Charter change through the voting process in 2015, which allowed for a Prison Advisory Board. Accordingly, our initial suggestion is to incorporate a new Prison Advisory Board composed of members from key criminal justice stakeholders in the community. This board could serve the purpose being sought without the need for another Charter change. We are open to your input regarding the representation of the Board composition, which again is already empowered by the Charter. Otherwise, our position is that there are already several layers of oversight for the PDP and will not be helpful to add another and potentially create conflict and confusion. Currently, the PDP is subject to a substantial amount of inspection, monitoring, oversight and public reporting. Below are some examples: Monitors from the Pennsylvania Prison Society routinely visit the PDP to inspect conditions, interview inmates and receive their complaints. The Prison Society's findings from their visits are posted publicly and they work with the PDP administration to resolve inmate complaints. The Public Defender represents most inmates housed in PDP facilities. Their lawyers maintain a constant and active presence in the PDP facilities and routinely relay their concerns to PDP administration for resolution. Additionally, we work closely with the Defender's Office to identify individuals and cohorts of inmates who could be considered for release. Biannually independent medical and psychiatric experts conduct extensive reviews of medical and mental health care at PDP and make recommendations for improved care. Annually the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Department of Health inspects our Prison Health Services wing, the hospital at the Detention Center. Additionally, each facility is credited by the National Commission on Correctional Health Care and undergoes periodic in-depth onsite inspections. S. Attorney as well as the City Inspector General's Office to share information and cooperate in investigations regarding staff misconduct with respect to use of force and abuse of inmates. This type of behavior will not be tolerated and PDP cooperates with our law enforcement partners to uncover and prosecute these cases. Regarding use of force investigations, for instance, every use of force incident is reviewed by the PDP's Use of Force Review Team followed by, if necessary, an investigation by our office of Professional Compliance. Our Office of Professional Compliance in turn refers cases of clear unnecessary force to the District Attorney's Office for potential prosecution. Both local and federal law enforcement conduct investigations and bring prosecutions and cases regarding use of force, contraband and any manner of staff corruption. Additionally, the Remick Monitoring Team and the subject matter experts that are part of that monitoring team make announced and unannounced inspection tours of the PDP. The reports are shared with the plaintiffs, the court and filed on the public docket.
PDP then develops action plans to address any deficient findings. I understand that the motivation behind this measure is a desire to improve conditions at PDP for inmates and staff, but I submit that the causes of the current conditions do not stem from lack of oversight. As I testified, a substantial amount of inspection, monitoring and public reporting already happens. We know the root causes of our current conditions. We have too many inmates and too few correctional officers. Respectfully, I submit that it would be more prudent therefore to address population management and staffing and I welcome Council's assistance in these endeavors. The Parker Administration recognizes the challenges that have plagued the prisons in recent years and is committed not only to reform and resolution of the current issues but to making the Philadelphia Department of Prisons a national model of a just, humane and secure correctional environment for justice-involved people. For the reasons stated above, what we really need is not additional oversight but support. We need support with increasing our staffing and getting cases processed by our criminal justice partners so that people can be released from the PDP. Various initiatives have already begun regarding these key needs, but there is still much work to be done. Once we achieve our staffing needs commensurate with our population being lowered, we will be much better enabled to provide the proactive care we are always hoping for regarding our incarcerated population. Lastly, we respectfully request that you consider holding this proposed legislation in Committee while we work with your office, the office of Councilmember O'Rourke, Councilmember Thomas and interested advocacy groups to develop proposed amendments. If not, in the alternative we respectfully request that this measure be held on the Council calendar as we continue discussions. We are committed to long-term accountability. Thank you for your consideration. I'd be happy to answer anybody's questions.
Thank you. Thank you very much, Commissioner, for your testimony and for being here this afternoon and also for your willingness to continue conversation in addressing some of the pain points in the process to ensure that we can get to a better resolution. And thank you again to Councilmembers Thomas and O'Rourke for your willingness to continue the conversation with the Administration. Are there any questions for this panel? (No response.)
Any questions from colleagues who are present who are not members of the Committee? The Chair now recognizes Councilmember O'Rourke.
Thank you, Commissioner Resnick, for your testimony. Thank you for the work as I mentioned in our opening statement. Very appreciative of the advances that have been made, some of that happening since you've stepped in as Commissioner -- I'm getting a good ring here, sorry -- so I just wanted to thank you for those things. You did mention in your testimony that every use of force incident is reviewed by the PDP's Use of Force Review Team followed by the Office of Professional Compliance, if necessary. And in turn, cases of unnecessary force are referred out to the partners like the DA, the FBI, U.S. Attorney, Inspector General, so on and so forth for investigations. How many times per year do you refer cases out beyond your internal review processes? COMMISSIONER RESNICK: Since I've only been there since April, Councilman, it hasn't been a full year. But last month or July I referred two cases to the District Attorney's Office for prosecution for excessive force. They've accepted those cases. Just this week I fired three employees for excessive use of force. I'm referring that to the District Attorney's Office. I've referred cases of introduction of contraband to the District Attorney Office. They're prosecuting two of those.
Gotcha. So roughly somewhere between 5 and cases since April? 13 COMMISSIONER RESNICK: 14 Since April. 15
Thank you for that. I just want to just state for the record that there are 420 episodes of use of pepper spray from May 2023 to 2024. And when you think about the amount of cases that could be reported on and how much actually gets done knowing that you got here in April, right, not taking for granted, I just want to name just the disparity on that point. That having been said, no 4 further questions, Madam Chair.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you very, very much. Commissioner, I just had a question relative to the population management piece. What is your current census and then how many current offices do you have or is that information that you're unable to share, the second question? COMMISSIONER RESNICK: Population today, Madam Chair, is 4529, certified juveniles and 330 19 females. Our current staffing is -- 20 the last number I saw was around 21 900. We currently have a class of 22 50 in the academy and we have a 23 class approaching 50 ready to start probably mid-November.
Excellent, excellent. So to repeat; 4,529 for the population. I'm just confirming for my colleague. juveniles, 330 6 females? 7 COMMISSIONER RESNICK: 8 4529 overall, correct; 23 juveniles, 9 correct; and 330 females. 10
Excellent. Okay. And 12 you have that, colleague? 13
Okay. Great. And then 17 you have one class in the academy, a 18 class of 50 and then 50 ready to 19 begin? 20 COMMISSIONER RESNICK: 21 Correct. 22
Okay. Excellent. That's along with the new recruitment efforts, and we've seen the advertising and all the work that's going into sort of the workforce development of this picture. And so, we're happy to hear that we have about 100 coming into the department. COMMISSIONER RESNICK: Correct. Yes, I have appointed a recruitment coordinator to coordinate our recruitment efforts. We are working with the City's office of Human Relations -- Human Resources and their media people. We're bringing on a recruiting consultant who is expert in corrections and recruiting ex-military. We've moved our training academy to a newer more modern facility. We will be able to train simultaneously classes of around 50, so 100 at a time. So these changes have all been made since April.
Okay. Excellent. Excellent. Are there any further questions for this witness? (No response.)
Okay. Seeing none, we thank you for your testimony, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER RESNICK: Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Okay. Will the Clerk please call the next panel to testify.
Michelle Dietch, Tom Innes, Claire Shubik- Richards and Sarah Jacobson. And we'll start with Michelle Dietch who's on the screen, Councilwoman.
Okay. Thank you so much for being here virtually. We know you have joined us from a very long way. We ask that you please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Thank you so much. Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of the Council. My name is Michelle Dietch and I'm here to testify in support of this Charter amendment to create the Philadelphia Prison Community Oversight Board and Office of Prison (inaudible) -- the Johnson School of Public Affairs at the University of Texas at Austin, where I'm also a distinguished senior lecturer. The Prison and Jail Innovation Lab, which we call PJIL, is a national policy resource center focused on trying to ensure the safe and humane treatment of people in custody. PJIL also operates the national resource center for correctional oversight which works with policymakers and advocates to improve oversight of prisons and jails. My research and my expertise is in the field of prison oversight. : The Status of Prison and Jail Oversight in the United States. I also co-chair the American Bar Association Subcommittee on Correctional Oversight. I've served as a Federal court-appointed monitor of conditions in the Texas Prison System and I've served as general counsel to the Texas Senate Criminal Justice Committee. I wanted to share with you some of the reasons why I think this Charter amendment is in fact necessary. More than 35 years of working in this field have persuaded me that independent oversight is absolutely critical for the safe and humane operation of prisons and jails. Correctional facilities are among the most opaque institutions in our society, and the public and policymakers have very little idea about what actually happens behind the razor-wire fences. Insular environments like these put people in custody at risk of abuse, neglect, unsafe or inadequate conditions, poor health measures and ineffective programming, but independent oversight of the type envisioned by this resolution shines a light on what's happening behind bars, and that kind of transparency is absolutely necessary for ensuring the safety, well-being and rehabilitation of people who are incarcerated. I want to emphasize that oversight such as this type envisioned by the resolution is necessary not only when conditions are problematic but for every correctional system. Scandinavia's famously humane prisons need oversight just as much as Philadelphia's prisons do, and that kind of oversight exists even in Scandinavia. That's because every correctional system is capable of improvement and every system can benefit from an outside set of eyes. It allows the community's values and perspectives to be brought to bear on a very insular system in which norms rarely get challenged. Oversight ensures transparency which is fundamental to our democracy. It also helps set institutional guardrails for the long-term, ensuring the protection of vulnerable people regardless of who's in a position of leadership. Not only does oversight like this benefit incarcerated people, it also benefits corrections officials by helping them to improve their agency, by offering them objective feedback and sharing best practices. It helps policymakers like yourselves better understand how public monies are spent and it gives you the information that you need to exercise effective legislative oversight. Having an oversight body helps families of incarcerated loved ones to have a safe place to go with their concerns. And when you have preventive inspections of facilities, it allows for early identification of problems that can be addressed before they turn into scandals or expensive lawsuits. As an analogy, think of this as it's far better to identify cancers when they're Stage 1 rather than when they've already gotten to Stage 4. For all of these reasons, the American Bar Association has a policy calling on every jurisdiction to establish an independent oversight body to routinely monitor conditions of confinement in prisons and jails and to report publicly on their findings. The ABA's policy on this subject sets forth a checklist of the essential elements for what makes oversight effective.
And when it comes time to draft enabling legislation, I hope that the legislation will follow the ABA's checklist in order to ensure that the oversight body is in fact effective. Now, Philadelphia's prisons are of course under current court oversight, and it's important to note that independent oversight of the type envisioned by this resolution is not duplicative of court oversight. Court oversight is reactive and it exists solely to correct specifically identified constitutional violations, which is a very low bar. Such court monitoring is going to go away and it perhaps is going to go away sooner rather than later given the reforms that are underway with this new Administration. And as an aside, I want to mention that I'm very impressed by many of the reforms and the initiatives that Commissioner Resnick has testified about. I really do hope that these efforts are successful. But even if they are successful, it wouldn't change any of my thinking about these issues. And that's because as I noted earlier, oversight isn't needed because there are problems. It's needed because the people inside these prisons are always vulnerable and because transparency and outside review is essential for any public institution. In contrast to court oversight, preventive oversight is routine and permanent and can help to elevate a prison agency well above constitutional minima. This kind of oversight can also help prevent backsliding after the court case goes away. Ensuring the sustainability of reforms is an ongoing challenge everywhere that the courts have been involved in prison oversight. You only need to look to the notoriously violent and deadly New York City jail system or the prison systems in Georgia and Alabama to realize that backsliding today can happen after long-term oversight by the court has ended. The United States lags far behind the rest of the Western World when it comes to correctional oversight. Every European country and most other Western nations have well-resourced prison oversight bodies that conduct routine inspections of conditions of confinement. But over the last decade or two, many states in this country have recognized the importance of independent oversight and they've established a variety of different oversight mechanisms. In particular, I want to flag New Jersey, Washington state, Hawaii, Nebraska and Connecticut which all now have prison oversight bodies. And just earlier this year in 2024, Virginia and Maryland both established new prison oversight bodies with unanimous bipartisan support. Also in 2024, Congress passed an Oversight bill for the Federal Bureau of Prisons with unanimous support. Many other states and local jurisdictions are trying to pass similar jurisdic -- similar legislation. There is tremendous momentum all over the country to create these entities as a way to better protect incarcerated people and staff and to ensure that policymakers and the public are kept well-informed about conditions behind bars. I also want to flag that while there are other oversight measures that Commissioner Resnick has flagged in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania, all of those existing measures are a reflection of a healthy system of what we call layered oversight. Each of those bodies serves a very different purpose and it serves a different constituency. And that's why it's necessary to have all of them. They're not in competition with each other. As someone who's studied legislation that establishes these kinds of oversight bodies, I can state with confidence that passage of this resolution and dedication of the appropriate level of resources for the work of the oversight office will make Philadelphia a national leader when it comes to jail oversight. Philadelphia can become a model for the rest of the country when it comes to local leaders showing that they take their responsibility seriously to ensure that local jails are operated safely and humanely.
I appreciate the hard work that City Councilmembers Thomas and O'Rourke and the rest of this Council have put into this legislation and I offer my strongest possible support for its passage. Thank you for your consideration and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you. Thank you very much for your testimony and for joining us from such a long way. Thank you very, very much. Will the Clerk please call the next witness -- prior to doing that, are there any questions for this witness? Any questions for this witness? (No response.)
Okay. Seeing none, we will now call the next witness to testify.
I want to (inaudible) everything she said, right. But let's talk a little more. My name is Tom Innes. I'm the Director of Prison Advocacy at the Defender Association of Philadelphia. I want to thank you to Councilwoman Gilmore Richardson, Chair of this Committee. I'd like to thank Sponsor Isaiah Thomas, Co-sponsor Nick O'Rourke and all the members of City Council for the opportunity to speak in support of the ordinance which proposes a Charter change to establish an independent Office of Prison Oversight and a Prison Oversight Board. The Defender Association, let's make it clear, is in full support of this critical initiative to address the persistent lack of oversight and transparency within Philadelphia's jails. I've submitted full written testimony for the record. I'd like to use my time today to summarize the key points raised in that testimony and leave more time for discussion and questions. I've worked as a public defender in Philadelphia for over 45 years, including the last as the 11 Director of Prison Advocacy. I'm 12 going to be clear, I've spent as 13 much time at the jails as anyone 14 outside of the staff, incarcerated 15 person milieu. Over that time I've 16 seen consistent issues of 17 overcrowding, understaffing, limited 18 medical care, restricted access to 19 confidential spaces for attorney 20 meetings and abuse of solitary and 21 so much more. 22 Despite 32 of the last 43 23 years of being under federal consent 24 decrees, including the last three years with the Remick case, the problems persist. In that regard I want -- we prepared an exhibit for you all to see and I believe it may be up on the tech board. And also, I have individual copies for Council. So here we have the history of lawsuits against the Philadelphia jails. It began with Commonwealth v. ex Rel. Bryant v. Hendricks. That was a lawsuit involving two men and the prison conditions that they suffered. That turned into, morphed into Jackson v. Hendrick, which as you can see, lasted for 30 years. That Jackson v. Hendrick case involved a three- judge panel who oversaw and did a great deal in terms of changing the conditions of the prisons and getting and helping with overcrowding. In the interim, there was Warrington v. The City of Philadelphia. That was a class action -- these are all class actions except for Commonwealth v. ex Rel. Bryant. Warrington involved people who should have been out of jail but weren't. And part of the reason for that, only part of the reason but a good part of the reason, was because the jail didn't know who was supposed to be out and who was supposed to be in. So people spent days into months being in jail when they should not have been. Harris was filed in 1982 because of the lacking in the Jackson v. Hendrick's case that was filed in federal court and all of the rest of the litigation was filed in federal court. Jackson dealt with prison conditions. Harris dealt with overpopulation in the prison. And then in 2006 and 2008, Bowers was another case involving overpopulation at the prison. From 2008 to 2016 was Williams. Yet another prison conditions and overpopulation case. And then with the advent of COVID, a case was filed in 2020 involving the conditions at the jail and that sort of morphed into a matter of lack of staffing, as Commissioner Resnick talked about, but also overpopulation and the draconian methods that the jail had to take, did take, could take in order to protect everyone from COVID, and that lasted for four years. So as you can see, Councilpeople, from this the federal and state lawsuits have really actually been the only proper oversight that there's been. Be clear, during all this time there was a Board of Trustees and there was a Prison Advisory Board. But, in fact, this was the oversight that was provided.
So think of it as incarcerated people as patients and maybe even going back to what Professor Dietch talked about in terms of it being Stage 1 cancer, and they have Stage 1 cancer but instead of going to the ER or going to urgent care, they go to the federal courts, right. And so, federal courts deal with some of it. They give them some band-aids, some quick fixes and then they don't deal with the underlying illness and they send them home. Three years later they're back at urgent care again and it lasts for years. The result is they get back to court sooner or later; the suffering of the clients who are in jail, the vast majority of people in Philadelphia County jails to be honest are pre-trial, they haven't done anything wrong except get arrested at that point; the expense of attorneys' fees, the fines and penalties that have been imposed. In fact, just in the Remick case alone there's a penalty of $25 million against the City of Philadelphia. And lastly but not least, the community at this point believes almost nothing that emanates from the jails. There is no confidence in what happens at the jails or what emanates from the jails as the reasoning for it. Past efforts at oversight, the Board of Trustees and the Prison Advisory Board have failed. I know this because for eight years I was appointed by then Mayor Michael Nutter to be a non-voting member of the Board of Trustees. And so, what I saw during that eight years was lack of transparency, rarely engagement in the public. There was a lot of rubber stamping of budgets and little exercise of oversight. And even when there were serious issues to happen, they were unchecked. Let me give you a couple specific examples just from the last months. In the past months, 9 there have been over 20 deaths in 10 the Philadelphia County jail. Yet 11 in-depth details remain shielded 12 unless the families file a lawsuit 13 against the jail. 14 At that point, counsel 15 can ask for discovery and a lot of 16 information comes out. Very often 17 that discovery is embargoed so that 18 counsel can't release it to the 19 public and there's no light shining 20 on it at all. So we don't know whether those deaths could have been prevented, what caused them and so on. Secondly, from May of '23 to May of '24, an average of 106 people a month, 106 people a month were taken from State Road from the jail to emergency rooms. That's over three individuals a day without any public explanation or ability to review. And as Councilman O'Rourke mentioned, during that same period there were 420 incidents involving the use of pepper spray to control incarcerated persons, sometimes occurring up to three times a day over that period of time. There's no external review of their necessity or justification. The only review is inside the jail, and I'll talk about that before I finish. Was there a pattern? Was there use or abuse of the pepper spray? Who knows, we have no idea. And lastly, I want to give a personal episode. I've been doing this a long time. In 2016 I was going to the jail and I was realizing that more and more there was a queue of men who were standing out in front of CFCF in the morning at o'clock. They were waiting for 6 the cashier's window to open. 7 I started talking to the 8 men. I found out that they had been 9 released the night before, the evening before, and they could not get their goods. With that, I mean the cashier's windows were closed at the time they left because either the bail had been placed and put up too late or because the orders from the court hadn't been put into the system correctly but not in time. So they got out of jail. They were released to the street without their phone, their SEPTA card, their driver's license, their ID, their car keys or their money. So some of the lucky ones had somebody pick them up.
Some of the not-so-lucky ones -- if you know State Road -- went across the street to Pennypack Park and slept there and waited until the next morning so they could come out and get their goods and go home. I immediately contacted then Commissioner Carney and said, is there something we can do to solve this problem. She said, we don't have resources to do that right now. I continued to watch this happen. I went back to her a number of times to the point where she no longer took my phone calls and no longer answered my emails. Frustrated I then realized that the Philadelphia Inquirer was interested in the story. I gave a long interview to them. I brought the reporter out. He talked to the men. There was a front page article. Honestly did nothing except embarrass the City and the jail. Lo and behold two weeks later that issue was solved. They found the resources. So that's the kind of thing that needs to be solved with something other than -- and believe me, there was a Board of Trustees then, something other than the present Board of Trustees, Prison Advisory Board system. Commissioner Resnick, and I know him, he's a good man, he's a great leader. I respect him. I've known him for years. Okay. He's 15 trying admirably to address these 16 issues as you've heard. However, 17 honestly no single leader can 18 substitute for a structured, 19 independent and funded oversight 20 body. The alternative that he's presented includes giving these duties to the Prison Society, to my office, to the Defender Association, but none of these organizations had the authority or resources necessary to make meaningful and permanent changes. Plus, any time we ask for documents, investigations, reviews, the answer can always be what do you need them for or no. 8 And so, what we need is somebody who doesn't have to take no 10 for an answer and doesn't have to answer a question of why do you need them. True oversight demands constant access and presence inside and throughout the jail like I was up there every morning and got to see these men sitting outside, with full access to records and the ability to engage with staff. The proposed Charter change would finally create an entity capable of ensuring accountability and transparency, with resources and authority that have been absent for too, too long. The public deserves and needs better visibility into what happens behind the prison walls. Answering, you know -- the question is what would the Prison Oversight Board do that the Prison Advisory Board and Board of Trustees wouldn't do. Well, first of all, if these bills pass, there won't be a conflict as Commissioner Resnick said. It would rid the Charter change of the Advisory Board and the Board of Trustees, but also it would allow for in-depth investigation. It would allow for an investigation that doesn't suffer from confirmation bias, the confirmation bias that you hear from inside the prison. So lastly and I'm out of here, the public deserves and needs better visibility into what happens. I urge you to support this Charter change to provide consistent, effective oversight and transparency for the benefit of all Philadelphians and the community at large. Thank you for your attention.
Thank you. Thank you very much for your detailed testimony and particularly for this history document that I will really review. And the additional notes that I was able to take, it was very, very informative. We appreciate you being here and just all of your years of work on this issue. Are there any questions for this witness? (No response.)
Okay. Thank you very, very much. Will the Clerk please call the next two witnesses for this panel. We will take the testimony from those two witnesses and then we'll conclude with questions for that panel before we go into Panel 3.
Claire Shubik-Richards and Sarah Jacobson. (Witnesses approached Witness table.)
Thank you both so much for being here. We appreciate your presence. We ask that you state your name for the record and then proceed with your testimony.
Thank you. All right. You can state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good afternoon. My name is Claire Shubik-Richards and I'm the Executive Director of the Pennsylvania Prison Society. Thank you, Councilmembers, for having us here, particularly Councilmember Thomas and Councilmember O'Rourke. Thank you for coming on the inside with the Prison Society and having your staff come with us on the inside. I want to thank all of my colleagues in the constellation of advocacy organizations that have brought us here today, the Abolitionist Law Center, the Defender's Association. And I want to particularly thank my colleagues Noah Barth and Leigh Owens at the Prison Society. Founded in 1787 by Benjamin Rush and Benjamin Franklin, the Pennsylvania Prison Society is the nation's oldest human rights organization. For 238 years we have protected and promoted the health, safety and dignity of incarcerated Pennsylvanians and families. And Michelle mentioned -- Professor Dietch mentioned the number of -- the proliferation of oversight bodies across the Nation the last several years. I'm really proud that the Prison Society is again and again referenced as a model for the entire nation and it is something that has always been here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, but we are not enough. While we are the only governmental organization in the state with statutory authority to enter any prison and jail and meet with incarcerated people privately, we compose of a staff of and a volunteer network of 20 -- of 250, charged with protecting the health safety and well-being of a combined incarcerated population of 62,000 people across the Commonwealth. We are a drop in the bucket. But what we do is very important. We bear witness to prison conditions. Today the Prison Society operates a helpline for family members and incarcerated people to get information and report issues related to prison conditions. Prison Society volunteers assist individual incarcerated people with concerns they are facing related to their health, safety and dignity. In 2024 to date, our volunteers have assisted 268 people in the custody of the Philadelphia Department of prisons. And to the extent that there is a Prison Society volunteer watching this hearing, thank you, you are the salt of the earth. In Philadelphia for the last three years, we have conducted quarterly walkthroughs at the Philadelphia Department of Prisons facilities. org. Look, our work is really important. It's critical, but it's not enough. We strongly support the creation of a Prison Community Oversight Board. The proposed board and the related Office of Prison Oversight will add two critical components to oversight in Philadelphia. Firstly, the proposed Charter change will mandate regular public hearings in which the prison will need to respond to the public in open forum. The institution that has complete control over the people in its custody needs to be able to answer regularly and publicly for what it is doing and how. The leadership of the prison and for that matter the leadership of all three branches of government need to be responsive to the public regarding how they are treating the people this City has stripped of liberty. There are no other citizens for which the City has a higher duty than the citizens that it has total control over. As an observer of Prison Oversight Boards around the Commonwealth, Philadelphia is long overdue in joining the ranks of Allegheny County and Dauphin County in holding monthly publicly broadcast meetings in which the public servants responsible for the prisons answer to the people they serve. Secondly, the proposed Charter change will require regular reporting on and investigation into systemic issues at the prison, including fatalities, assaults, issues like use of pepper spray, the functioning of the grievance system.
While the Prison Society can identify systemic issues, we don't have the capacity to conduct the extensive types of investigations required to fully uncover the scope and nature of these problems. While the prison may conduct its own investigations and refer out to the Office of the Inspector General, the District Attorney, they may all conduct their own investigations. But when they do, those investigations are not made public. It is fundamental to good government that there are regular, public, detailed reports on issues related to the health, safety and dignity of people in the City's custody. Now, Mike mentioned -- Commissioner Resnick mentioned that the motivation is to improve conditions. And, yes, that is a motivation, of course. But another primary motivation is public accountability, good government full stop. This proposal will not resolve the current crisis at the Philadelphia Prisons. Commissioner Resnick, the First Judicial District, all of you and your political will, will stop the current crisis at the Philadelphia prisons. This Charter change won't. Today the City's jails are overburdened. I agree that the City jails are overburdened by needless overincarceration caused by slow, fragmented and (inaudible) criminal court process, crushing understaffing and years of mismanagement. It's time the City and all the different players in the City step up and end this ongoing tragedy. This proposal won't do that, but this proposal will create the infrastructure needed now and into the future. Oversight is a necessary prerequisite of reform. It is necessary but insufficient on its own. Some day the current Commissioner will be gone, the current federal consent decree will end. Some day Philadelphia will again be known as a city that protects the health, safety and dignity of its incarcerated citizens. A Prison Community Oversight Board will be just as important today as it will be then. To paraphrase Jeremy Bentham, Secrecy ought never to be the system of a regular government. Without public accountability, no good is permanent, and under the auspices of public accountability, no evil can continue.
Thank you. Thank you very much for your testimony. We will address questions at the end of this panel, but I have to say I was thrilled to learn more about your organization relative to the longstanding history back to the 1700s with Dr. Benjamin Rush and Benjamin Franklin. As a Pennsylvania hospital person, that was wonderful history. So thank you very much. All right. We will now ask you to state your name for the record. Proceed with your testimony. Then we'll address any questions at the end. Okay.
Thank you so much. My name is Sarah Jacobson. I go by she/her pronouns. I was a member of the Prison Advisory Board from 2017 to 2022. I resigned from the Board in 2022 when I realized that the Prison Advisory Board would not and could not function in any way to give real advice or real oversight. And worse than that, that it was a pretense, right. It was pretend input from the community which frankly made it dangerous. I'm going to talk about why the Prison Advisory Board is insufficient, why the Community Oversight Board proposed here is so much better and what to consider in future negotiations about details as the legislation continues. But I want to start by thanking you, thanking you for the opportunity to speak today. And thank you both for your leadership in carrying forward what Councilmember Gym started. This is critical work. And I as a citizen, I'm grateful to both of you, so thank you. As someone who served on the Prison Advisory Board, I saw firsthand why it was insufficient. When I was on that Board, it met irregularly and met with agendas entirely set out by the Prison administration. The meetings weren't public. When I asked, hey, aren't there sunlight -- Sunshine regulations, shouldn't we have people in? I was treated with scorn and then occasionally maybe one meeting would have some input from the public, but then that would disappear. And if I brought it up again, I was kind of derided for that. So there wasn't public input. We didn't really tour the prisons. Maybe across those five years we went twice. We didn't meet independently with people who were outside of the Prison administration, right. There were no conversations with, say, rank- and-file corrections officers or no 6 conversations with folks incarcerated there without people from the Prison administration hovering around. There was no data. We didn't ever give any advice. And frankly, we were told that, hey, if you gave advice, it's not going to matter anyway because we don't have to follow it. There wasn't paperwork we could turn to, to say these are our powers. When there was reporting on deaths that happened at the prison, that also happened sporadically. Sometimes it would be me seeing something in the paper and saying, hey, did everybody on the Board see this, but we would be told, yes, there was an incident, someone died, it's under investigation. That's it. There was never any follow-through to find out what might have come of the investigation and we had no access to anything about use-of-force data or any other data regarding out-of- cell time or conditions there. They were very much pro-forma meetings so any suggestion that some version of what's currently there may be just with different people, I would suggest that that is a bad idea. I would -- yeah, that's not going to work. One last note on why that Board was so insufficient, part of what drove me to leave at the end, I think there was one time that the Chair of that Board came and provided testimony to City Council. And, in fact, we had met for months as a group to figure out what that testimony would be. And then the Chair of the Board met separately with the Commissioner without us, changed the testimony entirely. When we begged him not to give it because it was not the view of the Board, I'll say he dismissed us and presented that anyway as though that was actually testimony of anything other than the view approved by Commissioner Carney. In the end, it doesn't matter that it was a lousy experience or we didn't do well. But what matters is what was going on at the time was real need. This was across the pandemic. There were deaths. There were things that the papers called riots. Correction officers took to the streets begging for help because of what they saw from the inside.
And I got to a point when I couldn't live with myself on this thing that wasn't really a thing, because all of that suffering and pain from the people who were incarcerated and the people who worked there that happened when I was on that Board is -- it's mine, I own that and I couldn't fix it. But this is so much better. This is a possibility for so much better. I'm going to talk about why this is better, particularly because there's still going to be discussions about some of the details. This is better because it has an employee and staff and budget that's tied to the Prison's budget so that it's not subject to any political whims or disfavors that may come from future administrations. It's better because it has public hearings. The public hearings you've already heard talked about where people from the community can give input and the people on the Board have to listen to that and hear that input. It's better because it gives guidance on who is appointed and how and the time frames. It's better because the Board includes voices of people who have been formally incarcerated so that those voices, voices we didn't get input from, are part of it. And it's better because there are provisions for access to documents. I knew of no way to get the Prison to turn over any documents for any data that we needed because they were just going to tell us no. 18 The things I recommend, I'll keep this quick to just a few, as conversations continue. And I say this as someone who doesn't -- I'm not a municipal lawyer, I don't know what should be in a Charter change or in later legislation. I recommend explicit guidance on when reappointments made when there's a vacancy, say that those reappointments happen maybe within like 90 days. I don't know that I was ever replaced. Someone else left when I was on there. They were never replaced. If there's specific guidance, then it can't atrophy through inaction. I recommend as explicit guidance as possible on the Board's power to get data and documents from the Prison so that there aren't questions about it, be that's subpoena power or something else. I recommended to issue an annual report and that report be made public and that report includes things like data on use of force, on conditions and advice on how to improve things. And lastly, and I don't mean to create controversy here, there's a provision on the Charter change that says that no 3 member of law enforcement or Sheriff's office or Prison staff be a part of the Board. I actually think that with some parameters it would be important to have a voice of someone who formerly worked in that space on the Board. I mean, parameters so it's not law enforcement, it's not Sheriffs, but someone who worked in a Philadelphia prison who doesn't currently work there but who was not part of administration, right, the rank-and- file who were there, I think that's important also. We want our prisons to be humane, safe facilities where everyone is treated with respect. That sounds so simple. Yet we are so far from it. It's going to take all of our best efforts to get there, and this brings us a whole lot closer. So again, thank you. Thanks.
Thank you. Thank you very much for your testimony and for all of your insight as a former member. I was completely struck by some of the information you shared regarding the lack of receipt of reports and data and information. And so, I was taking a lot of notes there and also with the recommendations that you shared. Are there any questions for this panel, any questions? (No response.)
All right. Seeing none, we thank you all so much for your testimony and for all your great work on this matter. We will now proceed with Panel 3. Will the Clerk please call the first witness for Panel 3.
Thank you very much for being here and for your patience. If you could just state your name for the record and then proceed with your testimony.
First of all, I just want to say thank you, City Council, for allowing me to testify today as well as City Councilman O'Rourke and City Councilman Isaiah Thomas. I deeply appreciate being here. I just want to say -- again, my name is LaTonya Meyers. I'm not only a person that's system-impacted, has been housed within the facilities on State Road, but I also worked and was employed as a public defender and was able to witness not only as a employer to help individuals come home but also as an ex-inmate, the horrific conditions that's inside the PDP. I first want to also acknowledge all the lives that was lost and the individuals that can't speak from the grave currently to advocate for this change, for this amendment in the Charter. Sorry guys. I'm a little nervous. As an individual deeply invested in the welfare of our community and someone who has been directly impacted by the system's issues within our justice system, I cannot overstate the critical need for the establishment of an Independent Oversight Committee for the prisoners in Philadelphia. Having witnessed firsthand the conditions and unaddressed injustices within Philadelphia County jails, I fervently believe that a meaningful oversight is imperative to safeguarding the rights and well- beings of individuals and incarcerated individuals. Over 40 percent of the individuals housed on State Road have mental health disorders. I've watched people not only -- or known people that not only lost their lives but their spirits was also broken. They returned home to our communities more hurt, more in despair than when they entered. And that's why I think having this oversight is really important. My grandmother used to have a saying, What happens in this house stays in this house. But that cannot happen when it comes to people's lives, when it comes to the welfare of our individuals. As a system-impacted person but, most importantly, a taxpaying citizen of Philadelphia, I'm urging y'all to please do what we can to make sure that our institutions are being held accountable in the same respect that we're being held accountable over at CJC. Such oversight committee would be severe as a critical mechanism for accountability, transparency and protection of basic human rights within correctional facilities. By providing independent monitoring and evaluation of conditions, treatment practices and overall welfare of prisoners, this committee will help ensure that no individual within system falls victim to neglect, abuse or deplorable conditions. And when we talk about individuals, I just want to put a face to that. We're talking about elderly abuse. We're talking about women that's impregnated. We're talking about people that are dealing with severe mental health issues. I've personally witnessed staff-on-staff violence. I personally witnessed people being beaten while handcuffed and being afraid. Because if your cellie don't tell your family or have someone to contact, no one knows how to reach or what's going on. There's no real way for us to hold accountable. We don't even know where our grievances are going when they're being written, are they being heard or are they being seen. I know that when we purchase products off of commissary, there's tax dollars associated with the products that we purchase. And I think, and I speak for those that can't be here today, that we're begging and we're asking our City Councilmembers to make sure that our welfare is being taken care of, our best interests are at the forefront and that there's some oversight when it comes to the Department of Pennsylvania Prison Department. I witnessed things that was just criminal up there, but it seems as though that no one was being held accountable but us. It just really breaks my heart when I see individuals return home more broken than when they went in, return home more addicted to drugs and synthetic drugs than what they ever was exposed to on the street.
So I stand here today to speak for those that can't speak from the grave and those that's behind bars currently that can't be here now. And as an individual from the community that's deeply committed to advocating for individuals like myself, I'm fully committed to working with whomever, institution, City Council to make sure that these issues are being addressed and that we have a say into what's next or how these steps are going to be implemented. As an individual also within the LGBTQ community, I've witnessed discrimination and plain- out humiliation. Individuals, staff members taking people in the rooms and having forced Pap smears because of certain situations. I've personally witnessed that. I even witnessed a woman on a pregnant unit at the time, A-Unit. The CO was sleep at night, and she was like nine months pregnant and she was going into labor. And we was constantly banging, banging, banging on the doors to wake the CO up. By the time she got back, we learned that she had the baby in the toilet. She went to the bathroom and she wasn't supposed to go to the bathroom because she was in labor and the baby had fell in the toilet. So these are some of the things that I just wanted to express, some things that I personally seen myself, witnessed. And as a community activist going up to State Road, working with the women throughout Mother's Day, advocating for individuals, creating post-release plans, I just want to ask you guys to please strongly consider making sure that we hold our institutions accountable as they hold us accountable in court. Thank you. )
Thank you. Thank you so much, LaTonya, for your personal testimony and story. We are proud of the work that you continue to do across the city of Philadelphia and appreciate you taking the time to be here today.
Thank you. All right. We have three -- are there any questions for that witness? No questions? (No response.)
Okay. All right. We have three witnesses who have signed up to provide testimony so I'm going to ask the Clerk to call those three witnesses. After those three individuals are called, if you are here to provide testimony for this bill and resolution and you do not hear your name called, if you could just indicate that after the names are called. Thanks.
Okay. If all three of you could approach the witness table. We're going to take you in that order. (Witnesses approached Witness table.)
And while they're approaching the witness table, is there anyone else here to testify on this matter whose name has not been called? (No response.)
Okay. Seeing none, we see two witnesses here. They will be our last two witnesses for this bill and resolution. For all the colleagues who are watching, we will need one more to go into the public meeting. Thank you. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Yes. I'm John Thompson. I'm an organizer with the Abolitionist Law Center. I come here today in support of the Oversight Board. I was formerly incarcerated, and I've been in the County prisons before so I know what's going on. It seems like the whole County prison now is a solitary confinement unit because of the lockdowns, the amount of time that they stay locked in and stay in their cells. I understand they're saying that they don't have guards to let these people out, but you have to release people then. If you don't have enough guards to man the population, then you should be trying to find a way to release people. Some of those bails, lower some of those bails or something. But the Oversight Board will be in addition to everything that the Commissioner talked about in the sense that it will give the public confidence in what's going on behind those walls. Because right now no one knows. Things happen behind those walls and we never know. It's the public confidence. It's the fact that those are human beings in those cages who have not been convicted of anything. They're there pre-trial and being treated like that. I invite all City Councilmembers and anyone else to take a tour of that prison and they will see how that prison looks, how people have to live every day. And you heard someone testify about 40 percent of the prison population has a mental illness. Well, by the time they're released it'll be more than 40 percent because that type of incarceration causes mental illness, causes frustration, causes anger, right. Do we want these people to come back home worse than they were when they went in? You already lose a lot when you go to prison. You already lose a lot. You know, you lose your family sometimes, your home, your car, all your possessions, right. So while you're there, the best thing that can be done is to treat them like a human being and that is one of the aspects that I think that would help with the Oversight Board. I sincerely think that, having someone look and see and having that focus on the prisons. And it's not just a thing -- everybody think it's just for prisoners. It's going to benefit the staff also because the Prison Oversight Board will be taking ideas from them as well as prisoners, but the main objective is to make sure that people are safe, that they are being treated humanely. I'm not going to take up a whole lot of time because I could literally sit here all day and talk about this. But I do want everyone to understand that this is extremely important. And like someone else said, it could be a model for the rest of the country because we need to have eyes on inside those prisons. Just like when you were younger, you didn't do stuff when your mother was around or your father was around. But if they wasn't looking, you sure did it. Well, it's the same concept. If people know they're being watched, they conform. And with that, I conclude my testimony. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you very much for your testimony and thank you very much for being here. Thank you. Please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Hi. My name is Sam Lew and I'm an organizer with the Abolitionist Law Center as well. I am going to share some of the things that I've heard directly from incarcerated people or their family members. And what I want to name is that these things that I'm sharing are not coming from the PDP raising the alarm on themselves. They are coming from incarcerated people and loved ones who are the first responders when something bad happens in the jail, who are the ones that are saying, hey, there are lots of human rights violations going on and wanting to get their loved ones out because they see how much that they're suffering on the inside. In the last couple of months there have been women in solitary confinement who are there weeks on end who are only able to shower three times a week and this includes women who are pregnant. Some of these women have been hospitalized because they are not able to receive enough water because they can't get it themselves sometimes when they're in solitary confinement. One woman who was in solitary told me, we cannot get into group programming because there are not enough shackles. And so, even when they're outside of solitary confinement, they're shackled. And when there aren't enough shackles, they can't be outside. And people are really just being treated like animals. People are living with feces on the walls. They have mold. Multiple people have told me about mold in the facility and that they fear that the PDP is just painting over the mold because their respiratory issues continue. There's also something called the multi-purpose room. It's also known as the closet. This is a room where four people are staying in one room. The lights are on nearly 24/7 and there are no windows. This is not a solitary confinement unit. It is just a place that people are placed and detained. I heard from a dad whose son was stabbed times and he had to walk himself to medical. He was then put in the hospital. And when he got out, they immediately placed him into solitary confinement. When he asked for mental health services and said he was suicidal, they refused to give him any services. He was only able to tell his dad what happened because a family member died. And so, he was able to go to Chapel and call his dad. Otherwise, he would not have been able to reach his family. We have heard that there are kids who are in Mod 3 who have not been outside in more than a year. And there are many, many instances of sexual assault. And I think that's really one of the things I want to raise. People are being raped -- there was a 21-year- old youth who said an officer walked all the way in the shower with me and tried to pull me out naked, and these are things that people feel like they cannot share because, one, the process around discipline is that the jail will investigate themselves, and also they fear so much retaliation when they have to continue to be in a jail with these correctional officers that are sexually assaulting them. And these are our young people that need to be protected and are there pre-trial. So I guess I just want to conclude by saying these are really, really horrific things that are happening. And while the Oversight Board is important and that we need more of that because it's such a black box in the prison. These are people that need to be getting out of the jail now. Our young people shouldn't be scared of being sexually assaulted while they are 21, 22, years old because that is 4 something that is going to affect 5 them for the rest of their life. 6 And so, as much as we can try to 7 have oversight and accountability it 8 is imperative that we all work 9 together as a city to get people out 10 immediately. Thank you so much. 11
Thank you. Thank you 13 very much for your testimony and for 14 sharing. And we heard what you 15 said. I know that Councilmember 16 Brooks and some of our other 17 colleagues earlier, I think it was 18 this year, you all toured one of the 19 prison facilities. 20 I want to put the offer 21 out there while the Commissioner is 22 here we would love to set up a tour 23 with the members of Council who would like to tour the facility. I know I have some years back when I was Chief of Staff here in Council but would love to come again. I know we recently did a trip, some of us, up to SCI Phoenix to visit with some of the Families and Children Together Program. We would love to set up that tour as mentioned so that we have an opportunity to go in this new term. COMMISSIONER RESNICK: (Inaudible).
Hold on one second, Commissioner. Can we just have you approach the witness table so that we can get it on the record so the stenographer can hear you? COMMISSIONER RESNICK: I'm sorry, Councilwoman. Mike Resnick, Commissioner of PDP for the record. Any time Council or your staff want to come to the department to visit to tour, you're welcome.
Thank you. We appreciate that and we will follow up to ensure that we have an opportunity to tour. Okay. We thank you both for your testimony and for being here. Are there any questions for those witnesses? Chair now recognizes Councilmember Landau.
Thank you all so much for your testimony. Every time we hear about what's going on in the prisons it's heartbreaking, it's awful and to just know how many years it's been going on for you is actually even more painful, because I had a whole hearing on issues and obstacles affecting the LGBTQ community before this one and we just keep talking about the same things and making little fixes, but it seems like we need some systemic change. I'm curious just even -- I don't know if we want to just go back to the last horrifying things that we heard about. I think you said in women are in solitary confinement. The showers are only three times a week, mold, and that the kids are in solitary confinement and how much sexual assault or rape is going on. Can you tell us specifically how you see this Oversight Committee helping for this? What exactly will it be documenting? I know that it will have subpoena power. It'll be able to get documents. But I wanted to just maybe go through one -- let's take one horrifying scenario and go through the steps to tell us how you see it working. (Witnesses approached Witness table.)
Thank you, colleague, for that question. As you approach the witness table, please again state your name for the record and then respond. Thank you.
Hi. Sarah Jacobson. I spoke before. A couple things, Councilmember Landau. One, at regular public meetings this could be addressed in the open, transparently, regularly in ways that -- presumably the Prison administration would be there as well, but they would hear about it and have to answer to and speak to this on a regular basis. I also think that an annual report that had recommendations would be useful when it came to combating sexual assault as well not only to document it in ways that were accessible to the public, but also to make recommendations such that every year, every however often we could see whether the Prison administration was following those recommendations. I can't sit here and promise you that those things will solve sexual abuse in prison, but it will -- I think the increased transparency and having to answer regularly to the public and answer regularly about what improvements they're making, I think, will help and that public awareness can only help that.
Tom Innes, testified from the Defender Association. I think there's two things in addition to what Sarah said. And, that is, first of all if they're with a Prison Oversight Board and a staff that goes into the jail I think there would be much more confidence in speaking to them after a period of time as opposed to speaking to officers and people who are completely personified with the jail, right. That's number one. And number two, there's a lot of protections under PREA which is the Prison Rape Elimination Act. And so, hopefully this Prison Oversight Board would be able to garner a lot more information from that. Now, when I ask for information from PREA, all I can find out even as counsel is that we notified them about a sexual assault and that they're investigating. I can't get anything more than that. Theoretically, hopefully, wonderfully we, the Prison Oversight Board, would get that information. There might be some work having to be done to get that, but I think it needs to be. And I think that's a really good point, Councilwoman Landau. Thank you.
If I could just add to under the existing Prison Advisory Board, we wouldn't have been given any data or information and would have been told -- we would have been given the sunniest version, I don't know, of prison sexual assault possible. We would have been told that anything that happened outside the cameras they couldn't talk about. We couldn't talk about the cameras because that was a security risk. We would have never delved into that and it would have never been on the agenda because the administration set the agenda.
Thank you so much for all the work that all of you guys are doing.
Thank you and thank you, Councilmember Landau. The Chair now recognizes Councilmember Brooks.
Yes. Y'all probably should stay. I think you guys probably will be answering the question that I had. I'm sorry I was trying to catch you before you all got up. I know I was out a little bit. I had to handle other Council business. However, our office and myself personally get calls from family members reporting complaints. How do you see the Prison Oversight Committee being able to help us navigate that, because a lot of the information I get comes from family members of folks that are incarcerated reporting issues to my office? And then when we check on it, to your point it didn't happen. How do you see the Prison Oversight Board helping us help these families feel like they're receiving some level of justice when they report things?
Well, first of all, thank you for asking that question. I'm Claire Shubik-Richards, Executive Director of the Pennsylvania Prison Society. And if you don't already, I would recommend that your office's Constituent Services have the family members call our family helpline which is dedicated specifically to helping families and individuals experiencing concerns related to their health safety and dignity on the inside, and we do follow-up. We have a dedicated group of volunteers who service the Philadelphia Department of Prisons facilities, who will go in and meet privately with someone experiencing concerns. And if they give permission, report back to the family. And what we hope, you know, Commissioner Resnick talked about concerns about redundancy and confusion by creating an Oversight Board. I actually think that this proposal adds two key components that are missing from oversight in Philadelphia and would not be redundant, and hopefully would continue to bolster our work in supporting families and being the front door for people that have individual concerns about loved ones in the prison.
Hi. Sarah Jacobson for the record. There's also I think language in the proposed Charter change regarding a possible investigation in an investigative power, up to you all obviously to work out the details as to whether you would want this to operate similarly to, say, the Police Oversight Commission, Police Advisory Board or not --
Right, or better. But that would provide another option, right, so that it's not just the prison investigating itself, investigating its own folks or leaving your office to deal with a complaint and a concern with all the other things that you all are regularly doing, right. That would be a body that you could refer issues to perhaps investigate that's not the Prison investigating itself. So that's my thought on that.
And, Councilwoman, you could always reach out to me at the Defender's Office. And I know Councilpeople do that and we help as much as we can, but we're like one person, two people. And that's part of the point of this Prison Oversight Board and Office is to allow those things to be developed both in terms of investigations and sort of in a more fulsome way, both individually and generally.
And also, as part of this plan will there be some advocacy so family members and incarcerated folks know that -- from personal experience since I've been a Councilmember, I'm not afraid when I go visit to the prison to talk to people. So many people, they'll tell me something but I don't really want to report it because it's a box over there, I don't know where the information is going, I can call and tell my mom, my mom's afraid to say something, can you help me. So is there a way for them to know that we're creating a system for their needs and fears to be at least heard and recommended without retribution? Because a lot of times they were having -- most of the people that spoke to me were talking about guards.
Right. And I think part of this, Councilwoman, is what Claire talked about in terms of much more confidence in the Prison Society and that whole avenue of complaints and feedback. But I also think that once the Oversight Office and the Board got on the ground and people began the word of mouth in the jail, which is everything, right, when the word of mouth in the jail gets around, you can talk to these folks and it ain't going to get back to the guards and the staff and the corrections. I think that'll help as well.
Thank you. Thank you, Councilmember Brooks. And as you all were reviewing some of those questions and information, you know I had to pull out a copy of the resolution to see some of the clauses that were included. And again, thank Councilmembers Thomas and O'Rourke for their continued commitment to address additional items that have been heard today and other items that have been raised by the Administration to ensure it gets into the body of this legislation. I know that we will review amendments that have already been circulated, and the totality of the legislation to address some of the things that we have heard today. So thank you very much for your testimony. Okay. Are there any further witnesses here to testify on Bill No. 240817 or Resolution No. 240834? (No response.)
Okay. Seeing none, we 5 will now conclude the public hearing 6 on Resolution No. 240834 and Bill 7 Nos. 240004 and 240817 -- is there 8 public comment? Is someone here for 9 public comment? 10
Oh, I'm sorry, dear. I 14 didn't see you. Please approach the 15 witness table. As you're 16 approaching the witness table, 17 please state your name for the 18 record and proceed with your 19 testimony. I apologize. I didn't 20 see your hand. 21
I'm sorry. 22 Good afternoon, Council. When 23 addressing this resolution, my 24 question is when dealing with the incarcerated population, people that are used to not being heard, people that are used to being overlooked, when addressing this, I've dealt with -- of course, you had Tom up here, Tom Innes and a couple other people up here from the Prison Society. A lot of times the incarcerated, it's a trust factor with our incarcerated individuals. So my question is, I understand we're going to have formerly incarcerated people on the Board. Will formerly incarcerated people be a part of the staff in addressing the issues that are taking place in the prison? I know having somebody that has been formerly incarcerated that can understand their plight, understand their struggle, understand the adversity they go through is essential to somebody that is currently formerly incarcerated. So will that be available to this Oversight Commission as well? Thank you.
Hassan Bennett, Commissioner on the Police Oversight Commission.
Okay. We want to make sure we had that for the record. Do we all have any questions for this witness?
All right. Thank you and thank you very much for that recommendation as well. So I'm sure you all have that. Wanted to recognize Councilmember Thomas.
Real quick, I just want to thank Mr. Bennett for his testimony and thank him for his question. The point of us having a working group over the next couple weeks is to be able to address questions just like that, so we want to invite Mr. Bennett to be a part of the dialogue with my staff, with the Admin, with the advocates and the entire team so Mr. Bennett's perspective can be included in the final version of the legislation, if the Committee does vote it out of Committee today. But then also communicate his experience working on the previous board to make sure that we do better in the future than what we've done in the past. So thank you, Mr. Bennett, for being here and thank you to the Committee for considering this legislation.
No, thank you very, very much, Councilmember Thomas, and again to Councilmember O'Rourke. Thank you both for being here, for hearing these recommendations firsthand with your team members. Is there anyone else here to testify on Resolution No. 240834 and Bill Nos. 240004 and 240817? (No response.)
Seeing none, we will now conclude the public hearing on Resolution No. 240834 and Bill Nos. 240004 and 240817. We will now go into the public meeting to consider the action to be taken on these bills and resolutions. Will the Clerk please call the roll to take attendance, and members that are in attendance will please indicate that you are present when your name is called.
Thank you. Thank you so much. Again, recognize the presence of Councilmembers Thomas and O'Rourke. The Chair now recognizes Vice-Chair Brooks for a motion on Bill No. 240004.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill No. 11 240004 be reported from this Committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the rules of Council be suspended to permit first reading of this bill at the next session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
Thank you. The Chair notes for the record that Councilmember Bass seconds the motion. It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 240004 be reported from this Committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the rules of Council be suspended as to permit first reading of this bill 6 at our next session of Council. All those in favor will signify by stating aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and 15 the motion carries. 16 The Chair now recognizes 17 Councilmember and Vice-Chair Brooks 18 for a motion on the amendment to 19 Bill No. 240817. 20
21 Thank you, Madam Chair. 22 I offer an amendment to 23 Bill No. 240817. A copy of the 24 amendment has been circulated to all members on the Committee. I move that the amendment to Bill No. 3 240817 be approved. (Duly seconded.)
The Chair notes for the record that Councilmember Landau seconds the motion. It has been moved and properly seconded that the amendment to Bill No. 240817 be approved. All those in favor of the motion will signify by stating aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the amendment to Bill No. 240817 has been approved. The Chair now recognizes Vice-Chair Brooks for a motion on Bill No. 240817 as amended.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill No. 4 240817 as amended be reported from this Committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the rules of Council be suspended to permit first reading of this bill at the next session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
The Chair notes for the record that Councilmember Phillips seconds a motion. It has been moved and properly seconded that Bill No. 17 240817 as amended be reported from this Committee with a favorable recommendation and further move that the rules of Council be suspended to permit first reading of this bill at the next session of Council. All those in favor of the motion will signify by stating aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. The Chair now recognizes Vice-Chair Brooks for a motion on Resolution No. 240834.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Resolution 14 No. 240834 be reported from this Committee with a favorable recommendation. (Duly seconded.)
The Chair notes for the record that Councilmembers Landau and Phillips seconds the motion. It has been moved and properly seconded that Resolution 24 No. 240834 be reported from this Committee with a favorable recommendation. All those in favor of the motion will signify by stating aye. (Aye.)
The ayes have it and the motion carries. Resolution No. 12 240834 will be reported from this Committee with a favorable recommendation. There being no further questions from members of the Committee and no other witnesses to testify, this concludes the business before the Committee on Law and Government today. Thank you all very much for your attendance. Have a good day. (Committee on Law and Government concluded at 3:55 p.m.) C E R T I F I C A T I O N I, hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence noted are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me in the foregoing matter, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. __________________________________ TANEHA CARROLL