COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, December 8, 1998 10:20 a.m. - - - RES. 980766 - Calling for the Council Committee on Education to hold joint hearings with state officials and the Philadelphia City Council on Charter Schools. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE L. BLACKWELL, Chair COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER, Vice Chair COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO COUNCILWOMAN ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILMAN ANGEL ORTIZ COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN AUGUSTA A. CLARK - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center Plaza, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 I N D E X RES. 980766 PAGE Dwight Evans, State Representative-------------- Derrick Spahn, PA Department of Ed., Director, Project Community Building------------------- 5 Dr. Tim Daniels, Director, Office of Educational Initiatives---------------------------------- 16 Joseph Proietta, Community Academy Charter School--------------------------------------- 23 Dr. Martin Ryder, World Communications Charter School--------------------------------------- 29 Taylor Frome, Youth Build Philadelphia Charter School--------------------------------------- 33 John Skief, Harambee Institute of Science and Technology Charter School-------------------- 38 David W. Hornbeck, Superintendent, School District of Philadelphia--------------------- 86 Germaine Ingram, Chief of Staff, Superintendent, School District of Philadelphia-------------- 117 Clarence D. Armbrister, Managing Director, School District of Philadelphia-------------- 118 Michael Horsey, State Representative------------ 151 Jackie B. Sparkman, General Counsel, School District of Philadelphia--------------------- 152 3 RESOLUTION 980766 CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Good morning. Let me thank everyone for coming this morning. And now let me formally begin the City Council Committee on Education. This is a joint hearing with state officials to discuss charter schools. Before we make a statement, let me have the clerk please read the title of the resolution.
Calling for the City Council Committee on Education to hold joint hearings with state officials and the Philadelphia City Council on charter schools, their role in relationship to the School District of Philadelphia, and their future impact on education in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. Let me say for the purpose of a quorum that we have, to my left, Councilwoman Miller, then Councilman Frank DiCicco; to my right Councilwoman Anna Verna. And let me give me opening statement. Today, Tuesday, December 8, the City Council Committee on Education is holding joint public hearings on Resolution No. 980766, with State 4 RESOLUTION 980766 Representative Dwight Evans and other state officials. This hearing is a joint efforts between the Education Committee and the state to investigate charter schools, their role in relationship to the School District of Philadelphia, and their future impact on education in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. As charter schools are a relatively new phenomenon in our city and their number is quickly increasing, it is important that we evaluate their impact both locally and statewide. I am sure that everyone here will see that this will be a very informative and productive hearing. State Representative Dwight Evans' involvement in organizing this hearing and even in giving the idea, setting forth that idea, is greatly, greatly appreciated. And we appreciate him for certainly stepping out on the charter school issue, when all elected officials were afraid to do so, and, in fact, taking a lot of heat for helping to create these wonderful schools that have become a part of 5 RESOLUTION 980766 our public school arena. With that, let me call on Representative Dwight Evans for any remarks he may have, and then other members of the committee. REPRESENTATIVE DWIGHT EVANS: I would first like to say good morning to all of you. I would like to thank the Chairperson, Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell, for, one, hosting this particular hearing, as well as the other members of the Education Committee. As the Councilwoman expressed, this is a joint effort between the city and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. In my view, too often, too many times I think that there's been unnecessary friction between the city and the state. I think it's long overdue that the policymakers at the city and the state level begin to work together for the interests of all of the children in the City of Philadelphia. Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell, my understanding, has visited all of the 13 charter schools. And she clearly understands that people need options and choices available to them. In my view, that does not mean that 6 RESOLUTION 980766 the public school system as we know it today is not functioning, but fundamentally is saying that people need to have options and choices available to them. I am prepared as the Democratic Chairman of the House Education Committee to work closely with Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell, as well as other members of the City Council, as we move forward in the next budget fiscal cycle. I have expressed to Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell that I think that this is the first in the history of not just this Council, but the city, where you really have a joint effort talking about city policy regarding education from the local and the state level. So I applaud Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell and the other members of the Council for the willingness to have this open discussion about charter policy. Thank you, Madam Chairperson. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you very much. Any other comments from members of the committee? Seeing none, we will begin our first 7 RESOLUTION 980766 panel. Let me note that representatives from all four panels are here, and that our Superintendent of Schools is certainly here, David Hornbeck. And we have you on Committee No.
2, so that we can first talk about who and what charter schools are, and then we will quickly -- we understand your time constraints, and we will try to do our best to respect that. Now will be Panel 1, State Representatives and original charter school operators. We're calling on Mr. Derrick Spahn, Pennsylvania Department of Education, Director of Project for Community Building. Thank you for coming.
Thank you, Councilwoman. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Would you pull the mike a little closer. And we would ask each speaker to identify yourself for the record and then proceed.
I am Derrick Spahn, Director of the Governor's Project for Community Building. I am delighted to have an opportunity to come here to talk about a program that Governor 8 RESOLUTION 980766 Ridge unveiled approximately two years ago, with the express purpose and interest in revitalizing our communities and investing in economic growth, creating empowerment in our communities, preventing teen pregnancy, fighting crime, and essentially giving individuals and families hope in transforming communities that have turned to wastelands into beacon lights of hope. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Excuse me one moment. All of those, I assume, who are there, if you would bring your chairs up closer to the witness table, for those of you who are on this committee, if you would. I'm sorry. We should have moved those up before we began, so that it is obvious that you are a part of this committee, this panel. And, again, we want to thank Representative Dwight Evans for even suggesting a format for us to make it a lot more organized and easier for us to explore the issue. Thank you. Please continue, Mr. Spahn.
I was appointed by 9 RESOLUTION 980766 Governor Ridge approximately two years ago to direct the Project for Community Building, which is the centerpiece of the Governor's plan to ensure that all Pennsylvanians thrive in the new economy of the 21st Century. The philosophy behind the project is that people, not government, are really the true builders of communities, and that inherent in every community across the Commonwealth is talent and potential and good will. The Project for Community Building seeks to tap into those qualities and stimulate self-help strategies and solutions. The focus of the Project for Community Building are five areas that are critical to community restoration and revitalization. Eight of the initiatives are offered under the Project for Community Building to community-based organizations in an effort to help communities build themselves from within. Let me very quickly just talk a little bit about some of those eight initiatives, one of which, pertinent to this morning, happens to be charter schools. 10 RESOLUTION 980766 The primary goal of the Project for Community Building is to build community assets, empower individuals and families, create opportunities for student achievement, prevent teen pregnancies, and improve neighborhood safety. We do that by bringing together approximately eight initiatives, which are the Pennsylvania Community Development Bank, the Self-Employment Assistance Program, the Family Savings Account Program, education mentoring, abstinence education, crime prevention and housing opportunities, and, of course, our charter school program. And we also do that through six state agencies which come together and are comprised to make up the Project for Community Building; that being the Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development, the Department of Labor and Industry, the Department of Health, the Department of Education, Pennsylvania Housing Finance Agency, and the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. First, just let me talk a little bit about those initiatives. 11 RESOLUTION 980766 The Family Savings Account Program is a program that uses restricted funds to help low-income families attain self-sufficiency through savings and asset accumulation. Matched savings from the state can be used to purchase a new home or pay for educational expenses or start a new business. And the program impact is to modify economic behavior in terms of creating savings accounts for poor families, self-sufficiency, and asset accumulation. The Community Development Bank is a program of the Pennsylvania Economic Development Financing Authority. The Pennsylvania Community Development Bank makes capital available for community and economic development lending and provides capacity building and technical assistance grants to promote the creation and expansion of community development financial institutions within the distressed communities. And the program impact behind the Community Development Banks are to promote new business start-ups or expansions, assist local 12 RESOLUTION 980766 CDFIs, encourage comprehensive community development plans, and support a network of nonprofit organizations. The Self-Employment Assistance Program targets workers who are likely to exhaust their own employment insurance benefits before being re-employed. And the program provides these workers with entrepreneurial assistance and training to create their own jobs through self-employment. And the impact of that program is designed specifically to create community empowerment, self-sufficiency, provide communities with products needed, and create employment opportunities. Through our Education Mentoring Program, which is also offered by the Department of Education, that program is designed to link responsible, caring adults with at-risk youth and children.
And the program works on the notion of the pool of expectancy, which suggests that a positive, respected adult can provide an admiring child or youth with the ability to recognize their 13 RESOLUTION 980766 own qualities and their own talents. And, of course, the program impact of the Education Mentoring Program is to establish positive roll models for at-risk youth, improve school attendance and performance, and eliminate potential for at-risk youths to become involved in drugs and in crime. The next program is the Community Crime Prevention Program, offered by the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. Here we seek to design programs that allow communities and organizations to develop community-driven, community-directed strategies which eliminate the factors that contribute to juvenile crime and delinquency. It's also a program specifically designed at helping communities develop programs to inoculate themselves against the disease and ravishes of crime and violence. Our Abstinence Education and Related Services Program, offered through the Department of Health, assists communities in the development of strategies to reduce teen pregnancy, community-directed abstinence-based education 14 RESOLUTION 980766 programs are -- is created to discourage and postpone sexual activity and avoid pregnancy among children and adolescents. And, in addition to that program, helping to reduce teen pregnancy, it also seeks to -- there is a side benefit, in that it helps to lower STDs, as well, through or Abstinence Education and Related Services Program. The final program that we also offer under the Project for Community Building is our charter schools. And I'm going to read the brief bio of Dr. Timothy Daniels, who heads up the charter school. And it is for that purpose that this gathering has been convened. And Tim then will talk about charter schools under the Project for Community Building. Dr. Tim Daniels is the Director of the Office of Educational Initiatives in the Pennsylvania Department of Education. Programs currently included in this office are charter public schools and school performance funding. An experienced field administrator, Dr. Daniels has been a junior high teacher, a junior 15 RESOLUTION 980766 high assistant principal, a middle school principal, a school district business manager, an assistant superintendent for curriculum and instruction, and a superintendent of schools. As part of the Pennsylvania Charter School Initiative, Dr. Daniels has visited charter schools in Pennsylvania and states throughout the country, overseeing the awarding and administration of 159 charter school planning grants in the Commonwealth, published several journal articles about the development of Pennsylvania charter schools, and spoke to numerous groups throughout the Commonwealth. Topics of the presentations include the development and operation of charter schools in Pennsylvania, the Pennsylvania Charter School Planning grant process, and the analysis of Pennsylvania charter school legislation. He is currently involved in assisting the six charter schools that opened in the fall of 1997 and the that have opened in the fall of 23 1998, Organizing the fourth round of education 24 charter school workshops and planning grants, and 25 administering a $9 million federal grant awarded to 16 RESOLUTION 980766 give start-up funding to Pennsylvania charter schools. 4 million for this purpose. Tim chaired the task force that designed the guidelines for school performance funding, and his office is responsible for its implementation. And so now I'm going to give the mike over to Dr. Tim Daniels.
Thank you, Derrick. An update on that fourth round planning grant announcement from the state is that 33 additional grants have been awarded. And it is noteworthy in this setting to tell you that 15 of those grants are here in the City of Philadelphia. Charter schools, a mission-driven, deregulated, independent public school choice. It is a mission, freedom, and independence with consumer choice concept. If numbers speak, Pennsylvania's charters were invented right here in Philadelphia. 17 RESOLUTION 980766 I can recall being on the Parkway on the Charter School Symposium in June of 1997 in a room that was addressed by Council President Street, Superintendent Hornbeck, Secretary Hickock, and Governor Ridge right before the bill was signed and in the Free Public Library down in Philadelphia. And with that beginning, eight weeks later in Pennsylvania we had six charter schools, four of them operating right here in Philadelphia. And to prove that I'm a Delaware Valley resident, I want to show you something I taped at home on my VCR. This is one of those moments where it worked great before the performance. And the technician is not here. And if it doesn't warm up and go on -- there we go. Sometimes technology is a little scary. It is still scary. (VCR presentation.)
That says more than I could ever say about the mission. You had an operator there, a parent, student, everybody there for the same reason. Charter schools in the country 18 RESOLUTION 980766 started out in 1991, as a law in '92, with one charter in Minnesota. This chart went up to last year. S. Department of Education, second year study that was just released. And a lot of charter operators who are here have it. It shows that last year there were 800-and-some charter schools. This year there's 1,100 charter schools, with over 200,000 students, in the country. It is a national initiative and that puts the perspective in a nonpolitical one. That is, I believe, there is a difference in political parties between the national and state Administration, when I last checked. The national Administration has first of all. So this year we have all over the country as I say, over 20,000 students. In the states, 31 charter schools with 6,000 student, excess of 6,000 students. What does that mean for us here in Pennsylvania and as a consumer of education? It means last year there were six charter schools. You will notice one way out in 19 RESOLUTION 980766 here in Mercer, near the Ohio line -- which was the first charter school, which was a regional charter school of two school boards -- voted to nothing 5 for a charter school, one in Chester County, which 6 is a continuation of a Head Start Program, and four 7 in Philadelphia, whose operators are here today. 8 The second year, we have 31 charter 9 schools. You can see that the greater bulk of them 10 are still in Philadelphia, with 13 charter schools 11 operating. But they are spread throughout the 12 state. 13 For example, there are two up in the 14 State College School District, which are small 15 charter schools. They are each about 50 students. 16 One is a basic skills school, and the other is a 17 interdisciplinary unit school. 18 We have three operating in Pittsburgh, and, as I said before, 13 in the city. But that's all that's been approved. There are 35 that have been approved. And I want to point those out. Erie up in the left-hand corner there, and Philadelphia in the right-hand corner down at the bottom. There are 15 approved in 20 RESOLUTION 980766 Philadelphia, 13 operating. There's two additional approved to open next fall, Christopher Columbus and Atlas at this particular point. There's also a fourth one in Allegheny County that's approved. The Thurgood Marshal Charter, which will open next September, and the Lehigh Valley Performing Arts Charter, which has been approved north of here to open next September. 35 have been approved. And we have currently 52 applications in front of School 12 Boards in the Commonwealth, for those of you that 13 are keeping box scores there. 14 I will return briefly to the 15 definition of a charter school. Not to cover plowed 16 ground again, or plowed plowed ground again, but to 17 get our charter operators into their presentation 18 here. 19 Mission: I'm not going to talk that 20 that, when the people that can best talk about the mission of a charter school, which varies in a customed design way from school to school, the best people to describe that are the chief administrator officers of the charter schools. But freedom has to do with 21 RESOLUTION 980766 deregulation. You hear a lot about, you're not going to get anything different by doing the same thing. Well, if the rules for charter schools are the same as they are for our schools, after a while, you are going to have more of the same stuff. To get something different, you have to change the rules. It is called deregulation. There has been a lot of deregulation in services to people in our society, and right now schools are no 13 exception. Charter schools allow for deregulation. What do we mean by that? 80 percent of all state laws and regulations are waived, gone, but so is the local School Board policy.
And when I was a School Board business manager, and in charge of policy, I made sure we had two policy books that thick. They're gone, as is any contract line. Now, people have all sort of opinions about no contract, no teacher's contract, no School Board policy, no state law. But the point is that if you are waiving regulation, you are waiving it at all 22 RESOLUTION 980766 levels, not just some level. Everybody is giving it up to let charters do something different. And the last thing is independence to sustain this. When you create a chart school as an independent entity, it is a new sort of political entity in Pennsylvania. And in the eyes of the federal government it is a local education agency, which means on some maters it deals directly with the state education agency. And as we work the school districts, we found, for example, that federal money is not passed through the school district, but comes directly from the state to the charters. And that really underlines that definition of a charter school as an LEA. That is a distinction that does need to be made. And it took a little while to work that out after the bill was passed. I'm not going to say any more because you can't talk more about charters without talking about mission, and the people that do that are sitting with me at the table. And I think we're going to go with 23 RESOLUTION 980766 first school in Philadelphia first, as we're reminded by Mr. Proietta, Community Charter, High School Charter was first. And the first shall be first. And in addition to that, I am happy to say, having been there, we were there at the dedication of his new addition. So not only was it a new charter school last year, but it is growing this year. Joe.
My name is Joe Proietta, and I am the principal of Philadelphia Community Academy. Since 1990, ten -- CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Would you spell your last name for the stenographer. And, again, welcome to all of you.
Oh, sure. Thank you. Joseph Proietta, P-R-O-I-E-T-T-A. And John has asked me to remind everyone that I'm also the President of the Philadelphia Alliance of Charter Schools. And I guess before I begin also, I would like to thank Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell 24 RESOLUTION 980766 and the members of the committee for having these hearings today. And we also at our last PACS meeting, we discussed the fact that we were so proud and happy to see that newsletter that came from your office. And we were very grateful for that, and we wish to thank you for doing that. Getting back to Philadelphia Community Academy. Since 1990, ten of our students or graduates have been victims of violence. We've had ten funerals in the last eight years. Heroin, crack cocaine are sold in the public parking lot right next to the school. The Inquirer reports that over 10,000 students are truant from school every day within a one-mile radius of our school. That's our mission. The mission of Philadelphia Community Academy is to save, to re-educate, to rescue those students who have fallen through the cracks and have become victims to a society that doesn't seem to care. And caring becomes the big issue with them when they come to us. We've existed really for 20 years. We're about to have our 20th Anniversary. I'm sure 25 RESOLUTION 980766 Councilwoman Blackwell and many Councilmembers from our years of fighting in Council are aware of us as the Community High School. Because of that, we are also in a very unique situation as a charter school. And that situation is that we're the only charter school I know of in the country that is accredited. And we are a middle-states-credited high school. Part of our mission and part of the way we see the way in which we can carry out this mission is by providing a full-service high school. And our high school not only has what I think is an excellent educational program, but we also have a health clinic in the school, staffed by the Philadelphia Health Department with nurse practitioners. And, as you know, nurse practitioners act as family physicians and are able to prescribe medication, do tests, and make necessary referrals. Through our health clinic, we have recently found two young women, 16 years old, with morbidly high blood pressure and have been able to get them the proper medical care, something that might have, again, slipped through the cracks. RESOLUTION 980766 We also provide daycare within the school, and we work very closely with teen mothers. And we have young children in our daycare right 5 now who are the children of children. 6 We also provide full social services 7 for our students. We have a social worker on staff 8 who works full time and is able to provide help with 9 things like getting a house, paying the gas bill, 10 getting a protection order, all the kinds of things 11 that come up during the day. What we want to do, and the reason that we provide these kinds of services, is that we want to create an environment where a student is free to study, free to take their academic load and deal with it. Because many times -- although there are problems, and we're all aware of them, in the public schools -- one of the things that the public schools and us as an inner-city school must deal with are those problems that are going on outside the school that make it impossible sometimes for a young person to come into a building, sit down, and do their work. And on the scale that we can do that, 27 RESOLUTION 980766 I think we're doing a very good job. And I hope as that, one of the other advantages of charter schools is that we can be a model that the public school system, which, of course, will have a much greater impact, can follow. Our attendance in our school is 86 percent. That's something that we're not happy with. But compared to what we're surrounded by, and by the problems, again, of urban education, it's very high for attendance for general comprehensive high school. We're working on that.
And we have programs, including home visits, that we perform. Our registrar and our social worker go out to the homes and try to find out what's going on and encourage students to come to school. This past June we graduated 40 students. Over the almost 20-year history of the school, we've graduated a thousand students. We think they are a thousand students who would not have graduated from high school if it weren't for our school. That's our mission. We're very proud of what we do. And we're very grateful to 28 RESOLUTION 980766 Representative Dwight Evans, who pushed the charter school all through, so that we could continue the good work that we've done. And I see that Councilman Cohen is here. And I know that Councilman Cohen is very much aware of our year-to-year-to-year struggles. And one thing that the charter has done for us, has given us the freedom to expand, as Dr. Daniels said, has given us the freedom to grow. We've gone from 180 students last year, to 250 students this year. The charter has allowed us to get bank loans. Because previously with the one year-to-year-to year contract, it was difficult for us to convince lending institutions that we would be around to pay off the loan. So that's made it possible for Community High School to do construction for Philadelphia Community Academy. And thank you very much. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you very much.
Well said. Right at the mission. And open for visitors any time; right, 29 RESOLUTION 980766 Joe?
Absolutely. We love having people come in. Councilwoman Blackwell knows.
Dr. Ryder is the Chief Administrative Officer of the World Communications Charter. And I've been there a lot. And one of the things that really made an impact on me was, seeing his teachers teach, and then talking to him about his veteran staff, is, many of his staff members took significant pay cuts to teach in his building. And he still had more people that wanted to teach there than he had slots. Dr. Ryder.
My name is Martin Ryder from World Communication Charter School. And we are located about five blocks from here. And you can walk right down Broad Street, and we're open. And we invite you to come any time. The mission of World Communications Charter School is, we think, is a unique mission. And our mission is to make sure that any student graduating from that school has access, has the 30 RESOLUTION 980766 skills and competencies such that they can enter the corporate world entry level without compromising the profit margin of those corporations who are working with us. And that's a tall mission. And as part of that tall mission, what we do is to do an extensive program with corporations. We have several specific programs. We work very closely with the Graphic Arts Union and with communications agencies and corporations here. And we are working very hard to make sure that our kids have those saleable skills and the skills are there. Our curriculum is basically an academic curriculum. And we begin our students in algebra and in language in sixth grade, and we make sure that those children are proficient throughout the program. Part of what we -- part of the secret in terms of how we do that is that we have mandatory parental involvement. And we sort of rest our laurels on that. As a matter of fact, I thank the parents who came to support us. Can you sort of 31 RESOLUTION 980766 raise your hands? Okay. Thank you. (Parents stand.) (Applause.)
And these parents came out. Well, usually we have very large parent meetings in the evenings. But these parents came out in the morning, and a couple of them took off from work just to make sure they were here. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Dr. Ryder would you pull the mike a little closer.
These parents took off from work. And many of them are here in these early morning hours to show support for charter schools. Our population now is 450 students. And our grade levels go from 6th through 10th at this time, and eventually we will go from 6th through 12th. We in the school have -- I'm trying to read my own writing here. We work very closely with the concept of developing human capital in our community. And one of those concepts is sustaining community curriculum. What Derrick Spahn was talking about 32 RESOLUTION 980766 earlier here, in terms of putting together that community model, is a process that we live inside the school. And we live this by involving corporations and parents. And our major objective is to make sure that the values of the parents and community equate with those values of corporate structure so that that transition from corporate structure or to entrepreneurism is an easy one for our children and families. Thank you.
Dr. Ryder, how many students do you have on the waiting list?
I just wanted to make sure I heard that right. To my left is Taylor Frome, Chief Administrative Officer of Youth Build. 33 RESOLUTION 980766 That's a program that's often on my mind because Youth Build in York, Pennsylvania, is trying to start a charter school. And it is engendering a little bit of -- how shall I put it? -- conversation. So I know Taylor Frome has been involved there, and I have, too, in helping to create another charter school. But in her charter school, you really believe when you go out and watch them pour the footers down on Cherry Street, when she is reconstructing old houses. I have been there and done that, and I am glad I was wearing galoshes.
Good morning. As Tim, said I am Taylor Frome. I am the Executive Director of the Youth Build Philadelphia Charter School. Briefly stated, our mission is to provide career-based educational opportunities for high school dropouts. You have to put that in a context of Philadelphia, where the school districts stated dropout rate is 51 percent, to realize that 34 RESOLUTION 980766 providing opportunities for this population has to have an impact on public education. And we see our mission as broader than what our school can do, and have put a lot of time and energy into developing and maintaining relationships with the school district so that the work we do can have a larger impact. Last year, 95 former high school dropouts earned their high school diplomas at the Youth Build Philadelphia Charter School. The way that we are able to be successful with this population is a combination of providing a really high level of challenge, with high expectations, and also providing the supports that they need in order to meet those goals and expectations. The students that graduated last year had an average of 97 percent attendance for the year. And what that means is that they were absent very, very few days. That requires a huge commitment from the student and a huge commitment from the staff to deal with each absence. So each student is accountable every day. 35 RESOLUTION 980766 And we do that because we're career-based. We expect our students to be able to succeed in the workplace when they graduate. At this point our whole career-based curriculum is built around construction. And our students rebuild abandoned houses in three different parts of Philadelphia. If Councilwoman Anna Verna was here, she could talk to you about the fact that we have been doing housing in South Philadelphia since 1992, with her support. We also have been doing housing in North Philadelphia for the last three years, and in Germantown this year. We may do housing in other parts of the city as we expand. Students spend half their time in classes and half their time as part of a construction crew rebuilding houses. So it is a serious level of investment and time that they spend working on houses. Last year we built 12 houses with that group of 95 students. So in addition to earning their high school diploma, they really knew they had done something. They could see the houses, 36 RESOLUTION 980766 families moved into those houses, communities are being rebuilt. In terms of our relationship with the school district, this is our sixth year in a direct relationship with the school district around the population of high school dropouts. We were original members and continue to participate in the School To Career Work Team. And in that team we take the role of helping think about out-of-school youth and the school-to-career transition. We were on the committee that established the Next Step Centers in Philadelphia. One of our graduates sits on the task force on truancy. We're developing a curriculum that we think is much more effective with out-of-school youth and also with at-risk youth. And we have been developing a teaching model that's significantly different from what's going on in the public schools and what's going on in education in general that we're interested in offering to the school district and having piloted in other schools throughout the system. We have been doing portfolio 37 RESOLUTION 980766 assessment for the last three years and have been working with the school district on that because they see that and we see that as one of the ways to make education more concrete and more -- to make the assessment more tied to the product that a student can produce after they graduate or after they're promoted each year. So that it has to be directly tied to what they're able to do. And we're very, very interested in the larger repercussions that our program can have on the district as a whole.
When we look at the 51 percent drop out rate, there isn't any way that our school has the ambition to serve that whole population. It would require another system the size of the comprehensive high schools in Philadelphia. And that's never -- that's not our goal. Our goal is to develop the methods, develop the relationships to make it happen, and to maintain and bring the school district along with us every step of the way. Thank you.
Thank you, Taylor. Last, certainly not least, for those of you who know 38 RESOLUTION 980766 him, John Skief, Chief Administrator Officer of Harambee Charter School. Two things. One, you just, in terms of parent involvement, you know it when you go down to a meeting for a small talk and 200 people show up. It's nice to have an audience. And he does get parent turn` out for his meetings. And also as an ex-church choir director myself, hearing his student body sing at the Thanksgiving assembly was really wonderful, too. It is a wonderful school. John.
Thank you, Tim. And good morning to the Councilmembers and the State Representative. And thank you for the parents that came out in support of what we're trying to do. As was said before, my name is John Skief. I am the Chief Administrative Officer of Harambee Institute of Science and Technology Charter School. We are located at the Penn Memorial Church, which is at 54th and Wynnefield Avenue. We have 240 students from Grade to 8. Harambee's mission is based on the needs of our community. Our first parent interest 39 RESOLUTION 980766 meeting was one that consisted not of us telling the parents what we were going to do, but we put a microphone and a video camera in front of the parents and we asked them two questions: What are the needs of our community? The second question was, if we were to establish a school, what is it that you feel we should teach these children in order to meet the needs of our community? That became the basis of our mission. Because Harambee, and based on what the parents and community have responded to us, Harambee believes that education should lead to self-reliance. Harambee also believes that our children should leave that institution with an identity, who they are; a purpose, why they are in school; and a direction, what they're going to do with the information and the knowledge and the resources once they have it. Harambee also seeks to empower parents to see themselves as equal partners in this goal and struggle of education. So we have empowered parents and we 40 RESOLUTION 980766 also offer to those parents seminars in terms of how to deal with their youth in these very, very difficult times of trying to develop their children. We also believe that all of our children, regardless of where they live, should have the opportunity to have a challenging educational program. Because I lived in the West Philadelphia community. My children went to a neighborhood school. Although they may have made the honor roll in these schools, unfortunately their test scores weren't high enough to make it into some of the better schools. This educational Apartheid, as I call it, needs to be addressed. So Harambee offers a very challenging educational program, irrespective of what their so-called test scores were previously, as long as the children are educationally ready. I have worked in the Philadelphia public schools for 28 years before Harambee was established. And in spite of what you heard, I believe in the system. And I believed in public school and I believed in change. 41 RESOLUTION 980766 So much so that in 1989, I became the first of the restructuring leaders at West Philadelphia High School. The 9th grade initiative at West Philadelphia was led my me. The Philadelphia Schools Collaborative, which was set up to push change within the public schools, employed me in many cases to do workshops. 1 million grant, which was given to Philadelphia because it pushed high school reform and community revitalization. I believed in the system. Both evaluations of the U Grant, as well as the Philadelphia Schools Collaborative Initiative, the evaluations reported that the Administration of the Philadelphia school system has been ambiguous when it came to supporting reform. The teachers' union was looked upon as being an impediment to school reform. 1 million was poured into the West Philadelphia 42 RESOLUTION 980766 community, that the middle-level leadership, including the principal, did not really support reform in the public schools. I've always been about reform because I've always been a resident of Philadelphia, particularly of West Philadelphia, where I taught. And it was only through the frustration of attempts to reform the school system from within, and the dissolution of the Philadelphia Schools Collaborative when they pushed too hard in the Philadelphia school system, and it was dissolved, only through that, and once I saw the opportunity of charter schools, I jumped on the band wagon.
Much of what's supposed to go down in the charter schools was supposed to go down in the Philadelphia school system, had they listened to the Pew Foundation's suggestions and had they gone along with the ideas that were set forth by the Philadelphia Schools Collaborative. It was only in the failure of reform that I switched over to charter schools. But, I must say, I was very, very naive. Because I've always seen charter schools as 43 RESOLUTION 980766 public schools. " And I am the first. I am West Philadelphia cluster's first charter school. I really believed that we were going to have a partnership as far as education within my community. But I found very early on through the chartering process, with the Philadelphia School Board, it became more of an adversarial relationship. We talked less about education and much more about finances and money. My issue with charter schools is for us and for this community to see charter schools as a choice in public education, in which we would work hand in hand with the Philadelphia public school system because we had the opportunity and the freedom and the independence to do some innovative things. Hopefully, that these innovative initiatives that we had sponsored would be replicated in the public schools. But I guess I was very, very much 44 RESOLUTION 980766 naive about that. Because I do not see a partnership going on with the charter schools, as well as the Philadelphia public school system. My issue today is one of equity. The children who attend Harambee Institute and all the other charter schools in Philadelphia are public school children, but they do not receive the equity that the Philadelphia public school receives of the $6800 and change that go to or follows a child into the public school system. The charter schools get 5200 of that money. Our special ed subsidies, which we need desperately to handle our children with special needs, have been denied, delayed, held up because of implied mistrust and basically bureaucratic impediments. Regardless of the ambiguities of the law, regardless of that, our children are still not receiving equal resources when it comes to education. The most troubling situation to me is the fact that if you choose, if a parent chooses, to send their children to a private school, they will get busing from the Philadelphia school system. 45 RESOLUTION 980766 If parents choose to send their children to a Catholic school, they will get busing from the Philadelphia school system. And, more recently, if parents choose to send their children to Bucks County to the Mosaic School, they will get busing from the Philadelphia school system. But if parents choose to send their children to a charter school in Philadelphia, the buses run right by them. At 54th and Wynnefield, there are a number of private and Catholic schools right around there, and our children watch as the buses ride by. It's troubling to me because we have and elementary school, from -- and we service children from Grades 1 to 8. And because I have the economic means, I can drive my ten-year-old daughter to Harambee for education. Because the parents of Devon Smith, who live in East Falls, they don't have the economic means, so Devon, a ten-year-older, has to get on the bus with his 8-year-old brother, his 7-year-old twin brother and sister. That ten-year-older is in 46 RESOLUTION 980766 charge. They have to take three buses on the way to and from school. Sometimes the buses pass them by going home from school, and it takes these children hours to get home. I don't know what the law is or what it shouldn't be and how the law should be interpreted. The final results are, our children get less resources and are put in a dangerous situation of trying to find their way to and from school. It is the idea of equity that I'm really talking about. Because grants that are sent in Philadelphia from the federal government and private foundations, unfortunately we're locked out of those grants.
The after school program initiative that has been voted on, and I understand the school system enjoys, we hardly even knew about it. If we do not provide a choice in public education, then we will be forced to deal with those new initiatives that we do not like. I would like to paraphrase a statement by the late John F. " Thank you. ) CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you very much. Thank you very much. And let me say, I think, Mr. Skief, that you got to the heart of the matter about why we need these hearings, to talk about what charter schools are and even why you, all of you, are involved. Let me ask you, if all of you, it seems to me, came from the heads of schools, came from the school district, and/or why you chose to get involved in the charter school system, as opposed to a regular public school or maintain your direction in education as it was going. Mr. Proietta, let me ask you first what made you pick charter and the others.
Well, I wasn't a public schoolteacher. The community high school was a contractor with the school district. And I had been committed for well over 20 years to the idea of alternatives and the 48 RESOLUTION 980766 idea that every kid just isn't going to fit into the same system. So back in 1980 -- and Councilman Cohen was there when we first started in 1980 -- we were looking for ways in which those kids that fell through the cracks would have a way of getting back into school and back into education. So, basically, my whole professional career has been committed to the idea of alternatives and the idea that over the last probably ten years or so, that the children of Philadelphia deserve more than what they've been getting. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. Let me, before we continue, introduce the other members of the panel who are here. To my extreme left, Councilman Angel Ortiz. Next to him is Councilwoman Augusta Clark, who before I assumed Chairperson of this committee, held it for about a dozen years, as she says. Next to her is Councilman David Cohen to whom you just referred. Next to him is Councilman Rick Mariano. To my right, again, we introduced them, the co-chair, as State Representative Dwight 49 RESOLUTION 980766 Evans. To his right, certainly he's one of our State Representatives in West Philadelphia, my district, and we're absolutely very happy to have -- I am getting ready to call you Councilman. State Representative Michael Horsey. We thank you so much for being part of this committee. And again Councilwoman Donna Miller, who we introduced earlier. And sitting there, who has also been a part of all the hearings we have and always comes out, Councilman Frank Rizzo. Thank you. With that, let me ask Dr. Ryder what made you go this route, as opposed to the traditional educational system.
Jannie, as you well know, I had a son, I have a son, and I was in the Philadelphia educational system. And we -- and my wife and I decided to use public education, and so we did. And although my son did finally get a scholarship and went on to college, the problem was that we were not satisfied with his education once he left 8th grade. And we found that my son was, in fact, cheated. 50 RESOLUTION 980766 And how I say cheated is because, in fact, that in his educational system, he wasn't given the opportunities and the support to do a lot of things that we thought he ought to do. So I sort of made up my mind at that point that parents needed choice. And even though we had the means for choice, this system did not offer other parents choice. And we had talked to many, many parents there. As a matter of fact, I can sort of tell you, I was working as the principal of a middle school when several parents came to me, knowing that at that point I was getting ready to leave and go to a charter school. And those parents asked me could they come. And they -- and probably a few of the first students we had were the students that came with those parents and the students that came with the people who were planning with us in the charter group. Choice is a very, very important aspect. If choice is not allowed in our system, we are going to fail these children. If you look straight across this 51 RESOLUTION 980766 board, and you can look at even your magnet schools, you can take Central and Girls High and also look at Engineering Science, and what you're going to find is that the playing field is not equal, and it is not equal for our children. And I'm not going to mention any statistics, but I'm going to tell this panel to go up and take a look at how many minorities drop out of the 9th and 10th grade at Central. I didn't say West Philly, and I didn't say Bartrum, and I didn't say University City; I said Central. Now, if you take a look at that, then you will understand why choice is the most important factor that our parents have in the Philadelphia community. And if you take that choice away, you will fail, you will continue to fail, generations of our children. And that dropout rate that Taylor was talking about of 51 percent is only modest when you look at comprehensive high schools. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. Taylor Frome.
I also never worked for the School District of Philadelphia. I came into 52 RESOLUTION 980766 educating high school dropouts from working in Crisis Intervention Network and the Philadelphia Anti-drug and Anti-violence Network, where I was working with the young people involved in gangs and youth violence and found that -- that was how I discovered what the dropout rate was in Philadelphia and discovered how few opportunities there were for those young men and women to get off the streets once they had made the mistake of leaving school and getting into trouble. And in forming the organization Youth Build Philadelphia, we established a relationship with the school district from the very beginning. So that we were originally in partnership with Bartrum high school. Because we knew from the beginning that the problem was way too big for any small nonprofit, and that it needed to be deeply connected to the school district and feeding what we learned into the district. So it's always been, I guess, part of the vision to be doing exactly what we're doing. But charter school status has given us the ability to really step up our activities, take further -- 53 RESOLUTION 980766 take larger steps towards developing the curriculum and the teaching model, set our own standards, and expand. So we're very pleased to be able to be a charter school at this point. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. Let me ask John Skief. Because all of us know Harambee that has been around a long time. It wasn't a charter school initially, but I know you had an after-school program, also. But I know you've been fighting for Harambee Institute I guess as long as I have known you, and that's a long -- I don't remember when I didn't know you, so it's a long, long time. You mentioned several things. One, you said that the school district provides -- and we say this because our next panel will be the Superintendent of Schools and people from the Board who deal with charter schools. And we want to ask them if they will try to respond to some of these issues so we all have a better understanding of where we are and where we are going in this arena. You mentioned $6800 per child, but the charter schools get 5200. But you mentioned 54 RESOLUTION 980766 other issues, as well, special ed money and busing money. And I've heard charter school operators complain about issues like tokens and all of that. And when I tried to check on these issues, I've been told at the board level that charter schools sign a contract, and they kind of know what they're getting before they come, and that's the long and short of it. Can you give a little insight into what you mean by equity or inequity?
Well, if that's the answer that you got, that was really an unacceptable answer, the last statement that you said. Because we have to look at charter schools as another example of school reform. And as far as I'm concerned, in a community where we know and it is proven that our children are educationally deficient, every cent of the educational subsidy should follow the child. I don't know what happens to the 1600 or the 1400 that the school district keeps. I don't know what happens to that. But I do know that we are expected to do the same, if not more, with less. 55 RESOLUTION 980766 The aspect of special education was tied to mistrust. Because at first it was believed that charter schools did not have the integrity to properly tag a student for special ed. And then the means of getting charter school funds have always been ambiguous, and the recordkeeping and following the records and even obtaining records. Because we have had children to matriculate into Harambee Institute that were on behavior modification, but we didn't know that. We have had children that matriculated into Harambee Institute that were illegally written off or taken off of special education, and we had to deal with that. So regardless of the problems we may have obtaining records, obtaining resources for our children of special needs, we are held accountable by the state to make sure that we provide free and appropriate education for these children. And regardless of the ambiguities of the law, thank you, from what I have heard, Philadelphia is one of the only cities that have a problem busing children across the state. 56 RESOLUTION 980766 So it became very, very obvious to me that we were into an adversarial relationship, fighting over the little bit of crumbs that were brought down as far as education is concerned. And I initially did not see the school district as my enemy in that. I thought that we needed to get together and show the public that we can produce a quality educational program, and in that way the public would be with us when we came as a group to Harrisburg to ask for more funds. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Let me ask another question. And we will ask one of the other panels to respond. When a charter school -- obviously, and I guess, Mr. Daniels and Mr. Spahn might in part respond to this. If a person decides they want to take advantage of a charter school opportunity, they want to start a charter school, what they first have to do is get -- where do they get and file their proposals? Because we know charter means you get a charter from the state, which means you get permission from the state to have your own school. 57 RESOLUTION 980766 How does that start?
Slightly differently than just stated. But it starts with, we have planning grants of up to $25,000. We have awarded now 192 planning grants of between and thousand. 8 Right in Project Community Build is 9 the application, with Mr. Spahn. He has the 10 applications here, if anybody's interested. 11 CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. 12
And that is the state 13 involvement. That's a competitive grant. 14 Usually we award about between 50 and 15 60 percent of the grant applications grants. So it 16 is competitive. Of the 192 awarded, we've had well 17 over 300 groups apply. 18 However, once the group gets the 19 grant, they work as a group and apply to a local 20 School Board, as happened here in Philadelphia. 21 I believe 25 have applied before the 22 deadline of November 15 to open in September of 23 '99. And it's really, a charter is a contract with 24 the school district and the local chartering group. 25 It's not with the state. 58 RESOLUTION 980766 The state receives a copy of that contract, we keep it in our archives, just as we receive the annual report of the charter school. That's a little sidebar on accountability. People say, what about the accountability of charter schools. You are going to read a lot in the papers pro and con on that. Studies say they are doing well, studies say they are doing poorly. But, at any rate, it is the only school an annual report is required. It goes to the school district and also to the Secretary of Education. And I will throw in the fact that charter schools must also take the Pennsylvania System of School Assessment, and the results will be published on a profile. Derrick, in terms of starting a charter school, do you have anything add on that? CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: You said the contract is between whom and whom? It is not the state; it is between whom?
The school district and the chartering group. 59 RESOLUTION 980766
Dr. Daniels has clearly indicated -- CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Please pull the mike. We didn't hear one word you said.
Dr. Daniels has clearly indicated the process of starting the charter school. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: We still can't hear you. Pull the mike closer.
Dr. Daniels has spoken adequately and accurately in terms of how to start a charter school. And, of course, again, the process is a competitive one. Once an application reaches our office, we glean information from it, from the project office. And within 48 hours those applications are sent over to the Department of Education, where we then wait for that department to convene a review committee to begin reviewing those applications, or those applicant's application who are requesting a planning grant. Much of the project office is involved in that reviewing process. After which, 60 RESOLUTION 980766 those allocations are made. But Dr. Daniels has adequately indicated the process by which you get underway to start one. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. Let me ask that the parents again, for Councilmembers who might not have seen you, would the parents please, this is Work Communications Charter parents, would you stand up so other members of Council can see who you are, people who have taken off work and made a commitment to be here. We thank you again for coming. (Parents stand.) (Applause.)
There are also some Harambee parents here, also. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Yes, Harambee parents, we can't ignore you. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. Thank you all for coming. Taylor, and then we will take questions, Councilman Cohen and Councilman Ortiz.
I just wanted to make a 61 RESOLUTION 980766 point, because in the last couple of questions you touch on an issue which I think for the charter school operators is part of the confusion and complication in dealing with the school district, which is that in the state's commitment to deregulation and freedom, they turned over the regulation of charter schools to the school district without a lot of defining parameters. So that, for us, we are told that we are a local education agency with the same standing as the school district, and yet we are basically regulated by the school district. And it turns into a lot of tension and confusion, which is, I think, a piece of what Mr. Skief is talking about, also, in that the state will say, well, we didn't -- this is not our regulation, it is the school district's. And yet as an LEA, we basically are supposed to be a school district, each of us, each charter school. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. We will field questions from the panel. Councilwoman Clark.
Thank you for the opportunity. I know that we have a chock full 62 RESOLUTION 980766 schedule this morning. Do charter schools consider themselves to be public schools?
Do you consider yourself to be equal to the school district or a subunit of the school district in the locality where you reside?
I'm not sure the question is what we consider ourselves to be. The state considers us to be equal to the school district and subordinate to the school district both.
But you can't be both. You can't be both equal to and subordinate to. First I want to know what you think of yourself as being, and then I will ask the school district what they think of you as being. And the more we define who and what you are, the easier it is going to be for your consuming public to understand and know who to ask for what.
We do see ourselves as a 63 RESOLUTION 980766 public school and we see ourselves as a choice, another alternative, in public education.
I think that's even more important. In order for us to survive, if you look behind you, we have to have freedom and independence. And as you well know, Ms. Clark, in terms of looking at the freedom to develop our curriculum and to make those relationships and partnerships, we have to mate with business, industry, parents, and community. Then to say that we are subordinate to and therefore governed by regulations that have already proven to be failure would limit our successes. The fact that we are charters and can do things that are slightly different and offer alternative educational designs and processes to the school district is extremely important. And in order for that to happen, we have to maintain that independence. 64 RESOLUTION 980766
One other point should be noted. And that is, another question may be, not necessarily what they feel themselves to be. I think an important question is what they feel themselves not to be. And, that is, competitors of the school district, or even enemies of the school district. And certainly the Governor's intent here is to create schools of choice. Not necessarily making charter schools opponents or in competition with public school systems, but rather providing an opportunity for choice and empowering parents and teachers and communities to design custom-designed educational programs to meet the specific needs of children and, indeed, specific talents of children. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Councilman.
We have two classes here from Roberto Clemente School, one over there and one over there. Kids, will you stand up. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Welcome. (School students stand.) 65 RESOLUTION 980766 (Applause.) CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you very much. Councilman Cohen.
Thank you. I think these hearings are very important because I know of no other subject that's been as confusing for the public and for me personally. For example, right at the moment, I would say I'm opposed to charter schools, I'm opposed to vouchers, but my mind is open. But I've always been supportive of what Mr. Proietta did, and that seems to have been a very early example of the charter school. His case was very clear and easy, because he was dealing with children who had fell through the cracks, they were out of school and somehow, miraculously, his faculty, he himself, put together a curriculum, put together a lot of side issues that helped educate a group of children that the public schools said were not educable because they had dropped out. That was a very clear case. These other cases are not so clear to me, and it may be because I don't understand them. 66 RESOLUTION 980766 So I have a few questions I would just like to direct to different members of the panel in an effort to get a better understanding. To Mr. Ryder, I think it was you, sir, who spoke of the Central High dropouts. And that would be a matter of very deep concern. Let me ask you, does your charter school, have you accepted Central High dropouts? And, if you have, what has been the record in your case?
Okay. My charter school, first, has only been in business for two years. I'm not Joe and John and Taylor here, who have 10 to 15 years or better behind them. I'm -- at the time this was organized, I was the new kid on the block. So we haven't had that many Central students apply to us, because last year we only went to 9th grade. This year we are going to 10th grade. And I'm sure if they would apply, I would be happy to accept them.
Well, and if they do apply, and I hope they do, we would like to hear what happens to them, how you fill in the gaps which 67 RESOLUTION 980766 caused them to drop out of Central High School. That would be very important. The word "choice" is not a word that attracts me because I'm for choice and I'm against choice. For example, when it comes with respect to women's right to choose, I'm for choice. When it comes to choice moving away from public school education, I'm against choice. So the word "choice" itself is a very difficult one. Under some circumstances choice seems to me good, and other cases I find myself in opposition. What I would like to know from any member of the panel is, how does the charter school differ from the vouchers as a potential threat to the public school system?
One of the things -- I'm going to take that one from my colleagues. One of the things about charter schools, you have to understand, is that it is a public school, it is not a voucher school. The second thing about the concept of choice is that while you may be able to say whether 68 RESOLUTION 980766 or not you are against it or for it, most parents don't have that choice. They can't say whether they are against it or for it. If the public school fails that child, guess where that child ends up? You know, he ends up with that parent. That family will continue to carry the economic burden of that child whether or not the public school is successful or fails. And, incidentally, when you look at a charter school, if a charter school fails to provide that educational choice, fails to provide that quality education, or doesn't make its mission, they close down. Now, I would like for you to understand that. What we're saying here is that if a charter school fails to provide a quality education, they will be made to close down. And --
And it is that parent's choice that either makes it or break it, and it is those -- and it is that concept that it is a performance-based program that allows charter schools to survive or not to survive. 69 RESOLUTION 980766
Could I hear from the other members of the panel? Mr. Proietta? CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: And I will note that in my experience with meeting all the charter school directors and principals, they have absolutely the parental input and support that, unfortunately, many of our neighborhood public schools lack.
I think that's a very important factor. (Applause.) CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Yes.
I think that throughout American history, we have come to the conclusion that monopolies don't work. And, as John mentioned, and he was quoting President Kennedy, there are two ways to go about breaking up monopolies. And one way is that you can go a very radical route. And as you mentioned vouchers, that might be the most radical route, or supporting private schools. Or you can go with a kind of controlled, temperate reform. And charter schools present that 70 RESOLUTION 980766 because charter schools are public schools, are regulated by the state in the way the public schools are. And I know we've talked a lot about deregulation, but most of the essential rules apply, health, safety, discrimination. Those laws all apply to us in the same way that they do to the public schools. And, therefore, I think, we are able to offer an alternative, offer something that challenges the public schools, as well as supports the parents.
Yes. I would also like to add that since 1967, there have been many reform initiatives within the public schools, such as the Parkway Program. There's nothing new in what's going on with charter schools. When the Pew Foundation put in, I guess, around $16 million into the Philadelphia school system for reform, if you look at the mission of what supposedly was reformed, you will find that the charter schools meet that. 71 RESOLUTION 980766 But I'd also like to remind you that the Clark report, which was the evaluation team of the Pew Foundation money into the Philadelphia school system, stated that under Dr. Constance Clayton, her leadership and promotion of that school reform was ambiguous. They said that a major impediment were the work rules that were established through the PFT. Now, these impediments, both administratively, as well as through the workplace, were impediments to the change that was supposed to go on within the system. And it seemed that the system was not able to reform from within. One of the things that you'll find within the school system today is that we have clusters of schools and we have small learning communities in which teachers come together as teams. Well, a team is just that, people who have common missions, people who have the same type of commitment. But when that team is made up of seniority and the work rules that have been set up, 72 RESOLUTION 980766 they become impediments to change. And, once again, through the failure of change from within, we get charter schools. And charter schools are the last effort in public education to provide a meaningful alternative in public education. The failure of charter schools, along with the failure of public education, will give you the very thing that you don't want, and that's vouchers.
Mr. Skief, just one question. Could you be specific on the impediments? You have referred several times to them, the impediments created by the union.
Well, in terms of the union, when you have seniority as being the reason why teachers are coming together, or the only way teachers can come together -- let's look at the one that I had in West Philadelphia High School, the Community Development Charter. That's what we called it when I was at teacher at West. We never had a science teacher. Never had one. Because every time one came in, they were either a substitute. We didn't have the choice 73 RESOLUTION 980766 of choosing a science teacher. Every year we had a different one because of the work rules. We had a good one, but she couldn't stay because she had to pick another school because someone was more senior to her. These are just some of them. Now, as a leader in the school restructuring effort, I would go to the school district collaborative meetings, and I would hear about all of the wonderful innovations and changes that we could do. But then I would bring it back to my school and try to do it, and my principal really wasn't interested in that. And sometimes department heads weren't interested in that. So --
But the principal's action was not governed by the union, was it?
No, it wasn't. But as I said, in that Clark report, that evaluation said, it stated, that the Administration was not clear in its support of the reform. Because, you see, once that reform 74 RESOLUTION 980766 was suggested, that means that the power basis of many of those entities like department heads were all gone, that the principals had to share power with community and parents, and listen to teachers, share decisionmaking. You know, these were the changes that were bantered about, but the reality never came. And in my situation, I've been out and out suspended because -- in my own school because I believed in what was said at these meetings.
A very persuasive man. May I just ask Ms. Frome for her version.
I can understand your concern about vouchers and the ways that charter schools and vouchers are often mentioned in the same phrase in terms of ways to give parents more choice about charter schools. From the school operator's point of view, I think that there are substantial differences, in that we are a part of the -- we are a public school, and we are part of what I would 75 RESOLUTION 980766 consider to be the school system's education reform efforts. And I think that, for me, that's the substance of the difference, is that, as far as I can tell, the voucher system really just gives the parent a choice, but does not create a relationship between the institutions that then get those public funds and the larger system. There's no impact on the group as a whole. We have an opportunity where we are now, which we still haven't completely actualized, for charter schools to become a resource for the school system in terms of systems and ideas and grass-roots-generated assessment of what parents can contribute. I think that that's part of the goal of charter schools that's been difficult to implement, partly because of the struggles over money. But I think that, for me at least, that that's a big piece of what the potential for charter schools is.
Did that cover the suburban school in Bucks County that's a for-profit 76 RESOLUTION 980766 school, and I think it's considered a charter school? Is there anybody here that --
Pennsylvania requires that the schools be not-for-profit. So, therefore, the way that those schools are set up is that they hire Mosaica as an administrative body to run the school on a contract. But the school is not a for-profit school; it is a nonprofit school.
The board of directors, the board of trustees of that charter, is not a for-profit. And the provider of instructional services is the Mosaica Corporation. I want to say something about choice, and it has to do with a personal perspective. Both of my children went K through 12 through West Chester area school district. I am very proud of what they did. But as a lifetime public school employee myself, my satisfaction was increased by choice. My wife happens to teach at the Westtown School, the oldest continuously operating public school in the country. 77 RESOLUTION 980766 And as a spouse, we get almost a zero tuition option for our children. I had the choice, and I kept my kids in the public school. But I felt better about it because I had the choice. When Dr. Ryder points out the fact that some people don't have the choice because their spouses don't teach in alternative, if you choose the public schools, you are going to feel a lot better about it. So if there is choice, people that remain in the public schools by choice, their consumer satisfaction comes up too, because people want to be there. And when you want to be there, then achievement is bound to come up, if everybody agrees on that.
For the record, I have four children. They are all adults. Every one of them went K through 12 through the public school system.
Under circumstances where many other parents were 78 RESOLUTION 980766 making -- we didn't call it choice then, but making other choices. But I believe if a case can be demonstrated that charter schools strengthen the public school system, it is clear to me it is a very positive movement. If, on the other hand, if the evidence indicates that charter schools weaken the public school system, then I think it's as strong a negative. And it's that that I am struggling, and I think most people in the city are struggling to understand. We don't know enough. And your panel that is been very, very helpful in beginning to define the parameters. And I thank the Chair for the privilege of asking these questions. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you.
Can I respond very quickly? And my very quick response is that whether or not charter schools will strengthen the public school system is up to the public school system. 79 RESOLUTION 980766 We're here, we're doing a good job. And if we get the cooperation and if we work as a team, then I think that will happen.
I think all of you ought to stay here for the next panel, because we'd like to have your response to what the public school system tells us. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. We will hear from Co-chair, State Representative Dwight Evans, and then Councilwoman Clark. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I want to again thank the Chairperson for convening this particular hearing. Because, as Councilman Cohen and Councilwoman Clark and Councilman Ortiz said, this is a great exchange and it is important. And I guess the question I want to ask, because this charter school is going into its second year, I want to ask the question about the friendliness of the city school district, as well as the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And I hear that question. The School Board will always say that this school district is the most friendliest charter school school district 80 RESOLUTION 980766 of the 501 school districts. I hear that constantly of the school district saying how friendly it is. I'm curious to know that when the School Board votes to approve charters, and you have the policymakers saying one thing, what happens when you begin to deal with the people who are within the process, below the policymakers of the Board, when it comes down to how friendly they are first. And secondly I ask that same question, even though Dr. Daniels sat at the table and everyone else, because this is helpful as we deal with the budget in Harrisburg next year and as we move to the whole review of this particular legislation, how friendly are people in terms of being child centered, the school district as well as the state. How child friendly are they?
Well, as President of the Philadelphia Alliance of Charter Schools, I hear a lot of complaints. And my own experiences with the school district have not always been good. And friendly is not the tone that I would use to describe what has happened. I believe that there's no discussion, no consultation, no input when it comes to dealing 81 RESOLUTION 980766 with the school district. That decisions, as you said, that on the highest levels appear to be very charter friendly. That when they work their way down through the system, that they don't become that way any longer, that they're not carried out in a way that would be considered charter friendly. The issue of input, the issue of consultation, is something that really, I feel, is important. Because it seems sometimes that people are sitting around in their offices downtown at 21st and the Parkway, where there are no children, and they're making up rules and they're making up regulations and they're coming up with new ideas of things that we should do. Very often we have to change them after they come out. I made up a list of things, I made an appendix to the annual report. It turned out that the appendix wasn't correct. It asks for personal information about special education students in a public document. It amazes me that nobody saw that. What happened is, we happened to get it in our mail at the same day that the Director of 82 RESOLUTION 980766 Special Education from the state was in our building. I took it over to him and showed it to him, and he immediately called the school district to tell them, "You can't put this on a public document." I don't know how these things happen. We are sent a memo from the school district telling us that if we exceed the cap, that that's a violation of our charter. And so I have to go and call members of the School Board, talk to people, try to get them to back off from that. And after I've been told by the School Board that it's not a violation of our cap, we won't get paid for anyone over the cap. But if we have 250 students in our cap, we have 251 students in our school, we haven't violated our a charter. I then get the memo resent to me again. We put our attendance on the computer. We send in requests for change of records. But then they come up with a brand-new form just for charter schools that we have to fill 83 RESOLUTION 980766 out and send in to them. Again I talk to the School Board. The School Board says, well, we really didn't authorize that. I don't really see why you have to do it. Then they come around again a few months later and ask for it. They send us a completely unintelligible financial summary. I don't -- you know, we get this thing, we give it to our auditor, the auditor doesn't quite understand what it is about. The law seems to say that they're supposed to pay us 12 equal payments over the year, with the right to reconcile in quarters, at the end of the quarters. But they are reconciling daily. They asked us to go on their computer system, which we did. They then said to us that they wanted us to put our attendance on it. And as independent LEAs, we didn't think that was right. So we had to fight that, and then they backed down from it. As John has pointed out, they don't pay for transportation. I don't think any of the current charter schools have ever received 100 84 RESOLUTION 980766 percent of the special ed money that they have requested. I know right now that we haven't. We have gotten some since the beginning of the year, but we haven't been paid for every student. We're not sure whether those students who they did eventually decide to pay for, whether they went back to July 1 and paid for them or not. That's going to be very difficult to figure out. And I think -- CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Mr. Proietta, if you would keep your points, and we will have the opportunity to ask those questions.
Okay. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Mr. Hornbeck has to leave, he has told me twice. Councilwoman Blackwell is ready to bang me on the head. But we want to get your points. Don't lose them. We want to ask all those questions. And certainly we want to have the opportunity to ask Mr. Hornbeck, while he is here.
Briefly, and into the mix and into the discussion, this relationship that we're talking about, in any change of delivery of 85 RESOLUTION 980766 services of this magnitude, you have regulatory groups. The PIC, the Pennsylvania Insurance Commission; the PUC; the Federal Trade Commission; the Securities and Exchange Commission. The full definition of this bill will not be complete until our regulatory body, the Charter Appeal Board, the CAB, sits on July 1, when some of these things can be sorted out. Until that time -- and the bill was written that way with a moratorium. Until that time, the full independent nature of an LEA and a charter can't be defined because it's more of a local deal. Once the appeal board is in place, then, as with any delivery of services changes with a regulatory board, we'll see the full impact of the bill. And some of these questions can be more adequately resolved at this time. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: All right. We really want to, and we want to hear more. We hope that you will stay so that we will have an opportunity to explore. We are really, really at an important 86 RESOLUTION 980766 part of this hearing. We want to have Panel 2 come forward before they leave, and certainly want to thank all of you for where the rubber hits the road. ) CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. All right. We understand the Superintendent's schedule, and we want to give him an opportunity to begin right away. We thank you and all the members of the committee. We would ask you, Mr. Hornbeck, to begin immediately, as we understand the constraints under which you function. And with that, Mr. Hornbeck. SUPERINTENDENT DAVID W. HORNBECK: Thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman, members of the Council, Mr. Evans, Mr. Horsey. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you to testify about charter schools and commend the Chair for, as Chairwoman of the Education Committee, constantly being on top of the really crucial issues of this city. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. SUPERINTENDENT HORNBECK: It is an 87 RESOLUTION 980766 important leadership that you provide. I think as has been noted before, that the impetus for charter schools, along with vouchers and home schooling, arise primarily from dissatisfaction with the public schools. Thus, I begin this testimony with a brief report on the achievement status of Philadelphia's public schools. That's where the vast majority of our children will attend school, whatever forms of alternative opportunities might be created. Two years ago, the Philadelphia Board of Education set a goal of 95 percent of our students reaching carefully defined world-class standards in reading, math, and science in one student generation of 12 years. I am happy to say that we're on our way to meeting that goal. The district has exceeded the two-year performance targets set by the Board in our first accountability cycle. Moreover, the results from our own testing program were corroborated recently by our students' participation and achievement on the Pennsylvania state tests, as well. 88 RESOLUTION 980766 That fact is that our students read better, do math better, and know more science. In the context of the higher standards and the tougher tests, 241 of the 249 schools made progress, and 145 of our schools exceeded the very high two-year performance targets set for them. Moreover, these 145 schools included our lowest-income schools, our racially isolated schools, and our schools with the highest proportions of youngsters whose first language is not English, as well as students in schools at the higher end of the income scale. But what is most notable are not the 145 individual school stories and the thousands of individual classrooms in these schools, although they are wonderful stories to tell. What is most notable is that we have been able to bring success to scale. There are more than 103,000 students and 6,000 teachers in those 145 schools.
I'm not describing the hot house effect of carefully calibrated experimentation. I am describing the remarkable progress resulting from 89 RESOLUTION 980766 hard and smart work by ordinary students and teachers and principals and parents who, if you just counted the 145 Philadelphia public schools exceeding their performance targets, would constitute the 23rd largest school district in the United States. , Detroit, Boston, Denver, or Cleveland. With that as prelude, let me make three specific points about charter schools. First, the School District of Philadelphia supports the underlying principles of the charter school movement because these principles form the basis of our own reform agenda, children achieving. That's the reason I was present on the day that the bill was announced at the Free Library, to which Mr. Daniels referred. We are in favor of accountability for results, for community ownership, for local control, for deregulation, and I might add some of the other areas of flexibility that have been held up. I hope, in fact, that the state legislature will consider extending some freedoms to this Administration that you have deemed appropriate 90 RESOLUTION 980766 for another Administration, should the state decide to want to run the schools themselves. The facts about our support speak louder than any rhetoric. In less than two months, after the state's charter bill was signed into law, Philadelphia approved four out of the five charter school applications it had received for 1997-'98, making Philadelphia home to more than 90 percent of the state's charter school enrollment for that year. And in '98-'99, Philadelphia approved an additional 11 charters, 2 of which have been deferred until 1999-2000. Philadelphia is now home to almost half of all the charters in the state and more than half of the state's charter school enrollment. And we have accomplished that without any increase in administrative staff. Second, the school district does have some very real concerns about flaws in the state legislation. When we speak out about these flaws, we are seen as anti-charter. But we must be aware that a drain on the school system translates into 91 RESOLUTION 980766 less money for the students who choose to stay in the Philadelphia public schools. Charter schools create an overall financial drain on the district. During the 1998-'99 school year, our payments to charter schools will result in a net cost to the children remaining in the district of approximately $12 million. There are three main reasons for this drain. The legislation is based on the premise that dollars follow the child, which might work in theory, but not in practice, at least for a large school district. Students don't leave the school district in neat packages of 30 students from a classroom. They come from across the city, here and there, making it virtually impossible for us to reap savings on a one-to-one basis by eliminating the bulk of our costs, which are teacher salaries. Even with 11 charters in operation, we haven't yet reached the scale where we have equal offsetting savings on which the legislation's financial theory is based. Number two, the school district pays 92 RESOLUTION 980766 charter schools for every student enrolled, even if that student was formerly enrolled in a parochial or private school, and for which we never had any corresponding expenditure which could be reduced even if they did leave in groups of 30. In Philadelphia's charters, approximately out of every students enrolled in a charter school was not formerly enrolled in one of our public schools. The school district never paid to educate those children before, but it is paying now, which means we have less money to spend on the students still in the system. The theory is that we would have had to educate them in our schools, if they had come to us. But the fact, not the theory, is that most do not.
Moreover, when children do come into the school district, since the change in the school finance formula in the early '90s, we have to educate them without a corresponding increase in the state's subsidy. Three, while the district is capped on how much money it receives from the state for 93 RESOLUTION 980766 services to special education, charters are not. Furthermore, charters receive a payment that is based on an average of what the district spends on all its special ed students, including the severely disabled. It may cost the school district ten times more to educate a severely disabled child than a mildly disabled child. No charters currently enroll severely disabled students, yet we pay the charter schools an amount built on an average expenditure that assumes they enroll severely disabled students in the same proportion that we do. But our concerns are about the flaws in the legislation, not the charter schools, per se. This leads me to my third and final point. Charter schools should be our natural allies, particularly around the larger issue of funding for public education. More money for public education in Philadelphia means more money for Philadelphia's charter schools. Consequently, we should be forging alliances on school funding, not fighting over the same small pie of funds. 94 RESOLUTION 980766 I'd like to turn your attention to the kinds of information contained in the Citizens Guide to the Philadelphia School Budget, produced by Greater Philadelphia First to the Greater Philadelphia Urban Affairs Coalition. The publication was produced to help citizens have a clear picture of where school funds come from, where they go, and how Philadelphia's funding compares to that of other school districts. The data shown in the Citizens Guide is compelling in many ways for both charters and traditional public schools. First of all, it shows a growing funding gap across Pennsylvania since the state placed a freeze on its formula for education funding. In 1995-'96, for example, using the Pennsylvania Department of Education's own calculation of selected expenditures, the average Philadelphia area suburb spent almost $1600 more per pupil in '95-'96 than Philadelphia did. Even the statewide average is $600 more per pupil than Philadelphia. I emphasize the $1600 figure because 95 RESOLUTION 980766 Southeastern Pennsylvania is our marketplace where we compete for teachers, for example, not rural Pennsylvania. Lower Merion spends $4196 more than Philadelphia, and Radnor $5721, almost twice as much as Philadelphia. In the past, the amount the state gave to school districts in Pennsylvania depended on a formula that took into account the number of students, special needs of the district, its ability to raise local taxes, and other factors. However, in 1993, the state placed what is, in effect, a spending freeze on that formula. The freeze means that no matter how fast enrollment grows, state subsidies do not keep pace with enrollment. 9 percent for the rest of the state. 9 percent. All this happened while enrollment in Philadelphia went up by 11 and a half percent. 96 RESOLUTION 980766 So the legislative belief in money following the child is reflected in the charter school legislation, but it does not follow new children coming into the Philadelphia School District. 4 percent in '97-'98, as a reason why it shouldn't provide more, implying that Philadelphia should fix the problem by raising local taxes. But we need to put this in a larger context. In order to enlarge the local share of education funding, Philadelphia would have to raise property tax or cut funds from other city services; such as, police protection, transportation, and trash removal, to name a few of the key services that are funded by the city. This simply doesn't make sense, in my judgment. Philadelphia residents already pay more of their income in local taxes than residents anywhere else in Pennsylvania. , or Los Angeles.
97 RESOLUTION 980766 A little more than 75 percent of city taxes collected from schools are property taxes. 2 percent in Philadelphia, more than 30 percent in the rest of the state. 7 percent. Furthermore, while public school enrollment has gone up in the last eight years, overall city population has gone down. We have a dwindling tax base to work with. While the number of families living in poverty across the state has dropped almost 18 percent in the last five years, it has actually 19 increased by almost 10 percent in Philadelphia, 20 stretching the resources of this city already. This problem will only worsen when the public assistance changes begin to take effect in March. I close with the following observation: There is a connection between the 98 RESOLUTION 980766 expectations we have for our children, all children -- those in public schools, charter schools, parochial schools, and private schools -- and funding policy. Disadvantaged children are at a cross-roads. Those with whom we have historically failed, those from low-income homes, children of color, and those for whom English is not a first language, need our collective support in all of those schools and political power exercised on their behalf, giving them reason for hope in the future. Anyone who cares about all the children, in my judgment, cannot limit their efforts to experiments with vouchers, charters, home schooling, or other efforts that serve only a few. While those initiatives have their place, our policies and our practice must extend real opportunity to all of our children. Madam Chairwoman, the reason that I have to leave is that I have a speech at a foundation going again with a tin cup in my hand. And I apologize for that. I have with me the people who actually address the day-to-day issues that 99 RESOLUTION 980766 particularly were beginning to be raised at the end of the last panel. Germaine Ingram, who is the Chief of Staff; Clarence Armbrister, who is the Managing Director; Jackie Sparkman, who is the General Counsel of the District; and Dianne Castelbuono, who is my Special Assistant, who, among other duties, has the responsibility for overseeing the administration of the charter program in the school district. And they will, of course, be glad to answer any of those detailed questions that any members of the panel may have. If there are a couple of things that are of an over-arching policy character that I can be helpful with initially, let me stay for another five minutes and try to respond to those, and then, with your permission, skidaddle to see if I can't put another couple of bucks in the till. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: I will ask one, and open it up to everyone else, since we have time constraints. My question is, I have visited all the charter schools. And I have always felt, as I feel from your testimony, that the charter states 100 RESOLUTION 980766 are in the middle of this state/local funding fight. And they kind of feel like the child who gets pushed every way and don't know how to survive, and feel victims of something that's bigger than they are. That's my impression from visiting all of them. I have heard them complain about tokens and money for busing. And we know they're funded 76 percent, and the rest they're supposed to raise. But they seem to have problems even with that, albeit they have some kind of contract, a contract that they signed with you. They still seem to have problems getting what John Skief called equity, and even with the contract they sign. I know that's a very general question. But in terms of those issues that go under equity, like busing and tokens and special ed, can you give us an answer about that? SUPERINTENDENT HORNBECK: Well, let me start that answer and leave perhaps some of the details of it to Clay and to others after I have to leave. 101 RESOLUTION 980766 But I think you're absolutely right, which is a part of what I was trying to say in my testimony.
That this is another one of those examples where those of us, in my judgment, who are each of us too poor, fuss with each other, rather than focusing attention where it really belongs. And I think, that's the reason I think, that charters and the school district ought to be natural allies in this process. In terms of the specific amounts of money that make up the whatever it is $5300, and the 90-something-hundred-dollars, those numbers are simply derived, from our judgment, as to what the law says. They're not made-up numbers. They are an assessment from our perspective on what the law says about transportation, what the law says about food services, what the law says about these other things. There is the observation from time to time that we make money off of charter schools. I would be pleased to open those books to anyone, for you to discover that, in fact, this year we lose $12 102 RESOLUTION 980766 million. And what we've got to do, both in the public schools, in the charter schools, if vouchers ever come to pass, is to be about the business, on behalf of all kids, to delivering for them. And that's why I appreciate your leadership in convening this panel. Because I do believe, even though we obviously have differences among and between us, that the folks who are committed to charter schools -- because it is a tough business to run a charter school -- are also committed to children. So the issue is not about kids; it is about a law which, in my view, had good intentions, but also has some essential flaws in it. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Questions? Representative Evans. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Mr. Hornbeck, you indicated a policy question, and I would like to ask you somewhat of a global policy question. And I guess the question I would like to ask you is, you indicated that the School Board, yourself, have certainly been the most friendliest to charter schools in terms of its growth and 103 RESOLUTION 980766 opportunity in the state. My question to you is, have you or the School Board in some very specific way used the charter schools in terms of research analysis? Because it would appear to me if you indicated and the School Board indicated how friendly you are, then I would think in the year or two years that it's been in existence, that either you or your Administration would look at those charter school and say what works, what doesn't work, what can we do better. I am asking you the question. SUPERINTENDENT HORNBECK: Well, I think that's right on target. Because one of the reasons the charter schools make sense is, when they actually do begin to produce some results, we will have a basis for looking at what works. As a couple of the operators just indicated, it's been -- they have not even had at this point the three years of outcomes that permit me to say that 145 of our schools have made dramatic gains. It's not their fault; they just came into existence two years ago. 104 RESOLUTION 980766 Certainly one of the things that I'm extremely interested in is to see the growth patterns in the charter schools in reading, math, and science. And as soon as that data exists, in a way that it does for public schools, then we will want to take advantage of that. It is my hope, for example, that in the spring, we will have identified a half a dozen or more public schools that should become demonstration schools for various instructional practices. And I would hope that we would see the opportunity, if they would like to do that, in which one or more of the charter schools would also become demonstration schools not for charters or for private or for public, but for kids, so that we can grow together. So as soon as there is data so we know whether it works or not, then absolutely that will be something we want to look at.
REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: In other words, are you saying to me you either have a mechanism in place currently or you do not have a 105 RESOLUTION 980766 mechanism in place, although the charter school law is relatively new and this is only the second year, do you within your office or does the Board itself have any type of mechanism in place to do evaluation or is tracking what's taking place in the charter schools? SUPERINTENDENT HORNBECK: Sure. It is the same accountability system, in effect, that we have got in the public school system. Because we wouldn't want to compare apples and oranges. And in each of the charters is the requirement that the same outcome measures be used as in the public schools. So that when, for example, in these 145 schools, the reason I say that they made dramatic improvements and have done it faster than Chicago or Houston or any of these other big cities that get touted, it is because we have a systematic way of looking at reading, math, and science. And the same will exist-, when we have the data from the charter schools. All we've got at this point is the baseline data in four of the charter schools. We don't even have the first year of the comparative 106 RESOLUTION 980766 data. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: I guess my question is, who is in charge? When you said that it is under -- it is already under the accountability, who is in charge of that accountability regarding the charter schools? SUPERINTENDENT HORNBECK: The office that would track that would be Catherine Connor's office. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Second question. Have you encouraged as a policy, you or the Board, any conversions of existing public schools or any clusters, have you encouraged any conversions? Have you, for example, gotten your people to organize, going to a school and saying to a particular school that we would like for you to become a charter school. We are going to organize the parents, we are going to organize the teachers we are going to organize the staff, and we are encouraging you to become a conversion. Have you set that as a policy? SUPERINTENDENT HORNBECK: For the 107 RESOLUTION 980766 first two or three years, even before the law passed, while people were talking about it, the answer is yes, particularly initially with the cluster leader Karen DelGursio and the Strawberry Mansion cluster. In the last six months, the last round, the answer is no. Because I've reached the conclusion that, at this point, the conversion to charters and the additional expenditures that are necessary out of charters, we can't afford it. " I may have some great $12 million ideas; I just don't have $12 million. And so the notion of conversion, both of clusters, as you and I in fact have talked about, both at the cluster level and at the school level, is in theory a very attractive one. Indeed I've said before, I would like to have what, in effect, are 259 charter schools in 108 RESOLUTION 980766 the public school system. I think the kind of flexibility and setting standards and dealing with equity and all that belongs to the central part, but people ought to have the flexibility and the freedom at the local level. So when we get -- if we could get the flaws in the law straightened out, so that it doesn't end up with some of the problems that exist, I think that makes a lot of sense. And, in fact, if we extend some of the things that arise out of collective bargaining agreements, so that it is more attractive to the half of the teachers voting, and so on, then I think that's going to begin to happen. And I think that's all to the good. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Last question, Madam Chairperson. You tried to reconstitute two high schools. And, unfortunately, you, as you know, you certainly was not successful as you went through the labor issue.
In those particular high schools, which obviously you talked about your -- you measured your success in the numbers, and obviously 109 RESOLUTION 980766 high school reform leaves something to be desired, in my observation, my sense is, why don't you try to get those high schools to be converted to charters, since you were not successful in terms of reconstituting those particular schools? Because I would think those schools, in the case of Olney and Audenried, would be prime to be converted. Obviously you thought it should be changed, and obviously, you know, it didn't seem like you put any resources. And I'm talking about resources. I'm not talking about fiscal resource. I'm talking about resources of manpower of your office to say, "We're going to go in that school. " SUPERINTENDENT HORNBECK: In the case of Audenried, I'm happy to say there has been real progress there. And so I guess while we might have lost the battle there, we've, in my judgment, won the war. And there is a faculty there that's 110 RESOLUTION 980766 moving ahead, kids are moving up, they are performing better, and so on. In the case of Olney, I would be enormously interested in the percentage of faculty necessary to convert being lowered. Because I think that there might be some very interesting things that go on at Olney. As you sort of alluded to -- and certainly people have noticed from the newspapers - I've not been enormously successful with the faculty at Olney. And the prospect of 51 percent of that faculty voting to convert because I ask them to, I confess, I think at this point is somewhere between remote and nonexistent. But very radical changes there, as you have also noted, I think, need to take place. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: But in the meantime, I guess my only concern, if you are talking about a child-centered system, children achieving, and you are saying that you haven't been successful in a particular high school, children and parents are caught in the middle. They are caught in the middle, with 111 RESOLUTION 980766 adults who may not be focused or interested in the children. It seems like, are you giving up in terms of fundamentally trying to do something with that particular high school? SUPERINTENDENT HORNBECK: No, not at all. And I think that you will begin to see additional things take place at Olney even during the course of the spring. And it may even be that the state legislature can strengthen our hand in some of those ways that I alluded to a little while ago, and as we've talked about in other settings. Madam Chairwoman -- thank you very much, Mr. Evans -- I really have to go pretty soon. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Mr. Hornbeck, just one question from Representative Horsey. SUPERINTENDENT HORNBECK: Absolutely, Representative Horsey. REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: We don't want to do this, and that is make a comparison, but I am going to ask you to make a comparison today by asking you, are charter schools at an advantage or disadvantage relative to public schools? SUPERINTENDENT HORNBECK: Well, I 112 RESOLUTION 980766 think in terms of substance, I think an awful lot that's going on in the charter schools is very good for the children that are in charter schools. And that's the reason that I support charter schools. I think that there are two ways in which charter schools, in the way they've been treated so far in Pennsylvania, are bad for public schools. One is, I illustrate with the fact that it takes $12 million out of the 259 schools, of kids that are left, and puts it someplace else. And I don't begrudge that to the charter schools; it just ends up hurting the kids that are left behind. And, secondly, I fear that there are people who are in favor of charter schools that, having passed charter schools, think that they've really done something for the large number of children. When, in fact, they have done something very important for some children.
And we have a long history in this city of doing things for some children, but not enacting policies that are good for all children. And if folks could join together and 113 RESOLUTION 980766 be in favor, as the School District of Philadelphia is, and has demonstrated, in my view, both charter schools and the kids in public schools, then I think that we can solve these problems together, and I think good things could happen. So on the whole, I think, we continue to think, we are reviewing however many applications this year. How many did we get? applications. 10 We are plunging ahead with this. 11 We are trying to have the two things 12 come together because the kids are the same in the 13 final analysis, and that's our focus. 14 May I be excused, Madam Chairwoman, 15 please? 16 CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Yes. 17 Councilwoman Clark has agreed to waive her 18 question. 19 SUPERINTENDENT HORNBECK: Thank you 20 very much. 21
The rest of you 22 get triple. 23 SUPERINTENDENT HORNBECK: Thank you 24 all very much. 25 CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. 114 RESOLUTION 980766 Let me add that --
I am going to ask my questions of Germaine and Clay and the other panel from the school district. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: But let me say, to kind of flip the Superintendent's remark about charter schools being helpful for some students, I think public schools can only be helpful to the students in those schools, and that goes both ways. So I am sure that since charter schools are public schools, that when they talk about the dropout rate being 51 percent, that somehow that will be better this year when they average in now the excellent attendance that takes place in charter schools. So it seems to me we are still in a position, since we are still all public schools, of rising or sinking together. And that out of this hearing, we begin to see the problems that one can feel the back and forth, the antagonistic feelings and activities and actions that are taking place as charter schools try to be creative enough to not only come up with a 115 RESOLUTION 980766 building and figure out architecturally what you do and try to order books and try to put programs together with less money, but feel kind of like a stepchild of the system. I think that these hearings have made that, all of that has come out in the open, which is very, very important for the public to realize so that we can begin hopefully to set up some mechanism. When Tim Daniels talked about an appeal process, we didn't have an opportunity to go further into that. But at some point before this hearing is over, we would like to revisit that question, and who that appeal process involves. Is it the charter schools somehow with the Board or with the state? But that's another question that we kind of cut you off, Mr. Daniels, that we would like to revisit further. Any questions from the panel? Councilwoman Clark.
Madam Chair, I think, first of all, these hearings are enormously important. Because this is an issue that has been simmering that needs the bright light of day. 116 RESOLUTION 980766 Where people ask the question that's on their mind, and then evaluate the concept in the light of the answers that you get to the questions that you ask. What is clear from the language, from both the school district and the charter operators, is that while you say that you are one system, you speak of yourselves as being separate and different. Even the Superintendent speaks of charters as being separate from public schools. So you need, I think, to determine whether you are fish or fowl. And while fish is not better than fowl, we need to know what you are. And we need to be consistent in our language as to what you are, and what we can expect of you so that we end forever the "we they" kind of push and shove that is going on now. I think some of this pushing and shoving is because of the newness of the concept. And there's probably no group more resistant to change, if you will pardon me, Madam Chair, than educators. They love yesterday better than they love today and tomorrow. And so they look so fondly on the way 117 RESOLUTION 980766 it always was, and it is very difficult to see the bright tomorrow. It may well be that the charter organizers have not done as good a job as they hoped to in positioning the school as an asset and resource, and not a competitor. Now, if you will just accept that this might be a fair assessment of where you are, then there is a chance of solving the problems without having bodies all over the floor, like the third act of a Shakespearean tragedy. Give me some numbers as to how many students have left the Philadelphia Public School System for charter, and how many have come from other sources to charter schools. Now, the superintendent says something like two out of three, didn't he, or was it one out of three?
About one-third of the charter school enrollment, as we understand, come from parochial or private school. The other two-thirds come from traditional public schools.
Now, he speaks of not being able to reap the savings of the reduced 118 RESOLUTION 980766 population because the students don't come in neat blocks of 30 and, therefore, you are not able to reduce the teacher load by having one child less in a classroom. Is that a fair assessment?
When do you see yourselves being able to recoup this year's losses of one out of this class and three out of that school? How does that one day work itself out?
We have actually start today recoup some of those savings. I think the point that the Superintendent made, for example, is that we have in total enrollment in charter schools about 3,000 students, let's say. And let's say if you had an average class of 30 students, you know, one might conclude that you might be able to reduce the school district's teachers by 100, let's say one teacher for every class. Unfortunately, as the Superintendent indicated, that does not -- the students don't leave in neat packages of 30, so for every 30 students you can reduce a class. 119 RESOLUTION 980766 But we did and we have taken into account, there are some savings because of the reduced population in the charter schools.
Mr. Armbrister, at some point we are going to need you to put some numbers.
I am going to give YOU A number right now. The number THAT we have calculated with respect to the current fiscal year for savings for teachers that we didn't have to budget is about $3.6 million. And that's included -- when the Superintendent talks about the net costs of charter schools to the district, that has been taken into account.
So but for the 3.6, the cost would have been 15, and not 12?
All right. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: I am absolutely trying to figure out why there is all this fighting over 3,000 students out of almost 214,000, and why charter school operators -- I don't 120 RESOLUTION 980766 agree with my colleague that charter school operators have maybe done all they can. I think they have done all they can and all everybody else can do.
I was only speaking for myself. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Right. 3,000 students out of 214,000, for people to have to suffer and go through what charter school operators are going through, to me, is just kind of unbelievable.
But some of this is growing pains, Madam Chair. And I don't want to have a back and forth with you. Because I know that just because we disagree wouldn't make either one of us right or wrong; it would just make us different. But I am just now trying to get a record as to what has been the experience of the school district, and what you can expect when the growing pains level itself out, as it surely will, when the newness wears off and you become just another institution providing education in Philadelphia under the broad umbrella of the public 121 RESOLUTION 980766 school system. Because I'm still seeing it as public school. I do not see it as two competing systems.
I think it's very difficult to answer your question at this point in part, and in large part, because of the newness. You know, to what expect there will be the -- we will continue the significant increase in the number of charter schools, three years, five years, ten years from now, that's hard to say. There are -- charter schools aren't disbursed throughout the district evenly. So there are some geographic areas of the district that have larger concentrations of charter schools than others. Those are --
Ms. Ingram, introduce yourself to the record, so that the transcript will be clear.
Germaine Ingram, Chief of Staff, School District of Philadelphia. So those are types of factors. Charter schools are different sizes. They are diverse in the great organization that they accommodate. Most of the charter schools at this 122 RESOLUTION 980766 point serve elementary school students. So those are the types of variations and factors that will, to a great extent, determine the degree to which we can get to a point where there is a corresponding reduction in outlay for the school district, as there is an increase in the use of charter schools as a choice.
But isn't that a reasonable way for charter schools to develop? Shouldn't they start off educating primary grades, and then, as that need progresses, then go to middle school, senior? Does that make sense?
I think it depends on where the need is within a community. As Representative Evans says, has indicated, there are people who may look to charter schools as an alternative to addressing some of the needs of our high schools. And we wouldn't want to deny those communities the opportunity to do that. It also depends on the particular expertise of the people who want to start a charter school. We would want to see people apply their expertise in the area where they are most capable. 123 RESOLUTION 980766
So each charter is granted based on an assessment by some panel of the abacus ability to do the job they say they want to do; is that correct?
That's where we look first. And what's the intention, and how, what's your capacity to reach that intention of providing effective education.
And we certainly haven't gotten anywhere near maxing out on meeting the defined educational deficiencies in Philadelphia. But what is the school district's concern, what is your gut concern, about the proliferation of charter schools?
Our principal -- you know, I don't know whether you want to call it a concern. Our principal desire is to have charter schools serve as a vehicle for expanding instructional options for parents and communities. 124 RESOLUTION 980766 And we have an interest in seeing that charter schools provide effective education, provide equity, and deliver on the promise that is indicated in the legislation, to expand those opportunities.
I would like to follow up on Representative Evans' question. Who and where in the district is this ongoing assessment taking place? And when problems are encountered, what is offered, and what praise is offered? How do we lower the adversarial tone and fling open the welcome gates?
Well, let me say this: We aren't -- we don't take, the school district does not take, an adversarial posture towards charter schools.
So let's just establish that you think you are not, and they think you do. And now I am asking you to tell me 125 RESOLUTION 980766 what steps and what process you have in place that integrates them as part of the growing Philadelphia Public School offerings.
No, please don't. And listen, Germaine, you respond to me. Okay?
Well, I just expect a level of respect from people that we are trying to --
We have devoted a great deal of administrative capacity to try to bring this system, which, as you say, is new. We have been -- we have not been provided with funding for administrative support of the process and the program that we have had to mount in order to approve charter schools, in order to fund charter schools, in order to provide the type of ongoing recordkeeping and assessment that's occurring in this process.
Somehow you have provided the funds and somehow they are here. 126 RESOLUTION 980766 Now, how will you assess how well they do what they say they're going to do?
Part of our process is, part of the charter obligation of every charter school, is to take the Stanford 9. That is our essential mechanism for determining whether charter schools are progressing in their student achievement.
But that's test scores; that's one. What's another measure?
That is our principal measure. What you need to -- that's our principal measure. In addition to that, the state requires that each charter school submit an annual report that covers a number of areas with regard to the instructional program, the facilities. All the principal areas of the legislation are addressed in the annual report that charter schools submit to the state in the school district.
What would be an indicator to you that they were not doing well? 127 RESOLUTION 980766 Would attendance? Would dropout? What other things do you look to?
That's one thing that we look at for traditional public schools, and that's what we would look for in charter schools. We would want to look to see how many children were leaving or are being suspended or being expelled from charter schools, and the reasons for that. We would certainly look at attendance, look at persistence, how many children who start in a charter school progress to graduation or the culminating grade of that charter school. We would want to look at climate indicators; you know, to what degree children and staff and parents feel that the school provides a safe and supportive environment. 128 RESOLUTION 980766
How would you test the last thing you just said, the degree to which children, staff, and parents believe that they have been provided a safe environment? How would you test that?
I think principally you have to talk with those constituents, those children and staff and parents.
-- the law states that charter schools are independent schools. And part of the difficulty here is that when we have asked questions of charter schools, very often the response we get back is that, "We aren't responsible to the school district. We are independent." And so I think that part of -- one thing that needs to be clarified by the state or by whatever mechanism the state uses to followup this process is to bring greater clarity as to just what 129 RESOLUTION 980766 accountability charter schools have, and to whom, and --
That's exactly point my. And until we get that cleared up, we are always going to be bumping into whether you are fish or fowl, whether you are in, out, whether you are part of us or an adversary.
Clarence Armbrister, and I just wanted to piggyback on the point that Germaine was making. I think it is a point that Mr. Tim Daniels made that really should be underscored. Which is that, I think he said that the state is now preparing regulatory guidance that might be available in July. So we have been working with a statute, but without the fill-in, the regulatory guidance, to interpret many of the gray areas that both the charters on one side of that had to interpret and we on the school district have had to interpret. So that's been a very difficult problem, to try to go through this mine field to try 130 RESOLUTION 980766 to interpret the legislative intent of a bill that was passed rather quickly, and which we attempted, quite frankly, somewhat miraculously, to implement in that very short period of time in the first round in which we actually got four charter schools approved. So we are looking forward to the regulatory guidance and the interpretations that come out which will help answer a lot of these questions. But there is this tension, a very significant tension, between our regulating the charter schools, to the extent that we can, and their independence, which in many respects we try to honor. And it is something that's not just between the charters and the school district. We have it in the school district. I mean, we have people within the school district who misinterpret, who misunderstand. And it is a constant vigilance on our part as the senior staff to try to make sure where we are not trying to step on the charter's toes and give them the independence. 131 RESOLUTION 980766 So we have had, quite frankly, some of the instances that Mr. Proietta identified are -- have resulted because there have been confusion among our own staff, quite frankly.
There is confusion in this room as to what is and what is not a proper role and relationship between the two entities of the public school system. Okay? And I listened to your language, I listen to provider's language. And you could hear that we/they language that I'm dealing with because it is new. When the regs are finally written -- and lawyers know that between writing the law and implementing, you have to have the regulations to say what is permitted and what is expressly prohibited. You will at least have the benefit of these years of experience that will go into the regulations, hopefully. If we can keep from getting so fiercely adversarial that we start to protect turf, we can come up with regulations that are good for all of us. 132 RESOLUTION 980766 (Applause.)
But I think we are going to have to work at that. And until we do that, I am going to ask everybody to kindly sheath your sword, okay, put the safety on your gun, lock the safety, let's try to get through this test period -- which all of us have to admit this is a test period -- to see. We're testing a concept. And I think that that's our best shot. Madam Chair, I will not go further at this point. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. Representative Evans. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I would like to deal with the issue which I've heard a great deal about, this cost question of this number. And I want you to correct me if I make a mistake. I think the number you talked about, I heard you and the Superintendent talk about, $12 million is what the school district has lost. And I guess my question is a couple of 133 RESOLUTION 980766 things. Obviously when this law went into effect, which was 1997, and the school district certainly has its fixed costs, and the school district at that particular time already had contracts in place, so obviously you did not have the flexability, there were changes made, so you couldn't just turn around and make changes in the system as a result of the fixed costs. Can you explain in a very specific way, very specific, what exactly do you mean by you have lost $12 million? Because I heard Councilwoman Clark indicate that after some conversation, that you have a savings of 3.8, yet I heard the Superintendent say you are losing money. I am very curious. Tell me. And the numbers I heard -- and, Gussie, I have not always been too good at math -- I heard one-third comes from the parochial and the private schools, two-thirds comes from within the system. And I am trying to figure out if one-third comes from the outside and two-thirds come from within the system, then are you saying as a 134 RESOLUTION 980766 result of that one-third, that's the loss of the million? You have to explain that.
I would be happy 5 to. And bear with me, if you can. Let's start on 6 the expenditure side. 7 As you know, the state provides a 8 formula -- and I have copies of the calculation of 9 how we arrived at the per-pupil expenditure that we 10 provide to the charter schools. 11 For the current fiscal year that 12 number is $5,246. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: For the charter school?
For the charter school. So for every student who is enrolled in a charter school, the school district is required to provide -- and this is a regular ed -- we are required to provide $5246 for each of the students, the regular ed students. If you bear with me in terms of the pro forma that I have here with me -- CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Excuse me. Councilwoman Clark asked that you repeat that figure 135 RESOLUTION 980766 and the class of people.
Certainly. It is $5246. And that figure is derived from a state formula based on total expenditures of the school district. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Is this per charter school child?
Yes. It is basically a calculation for regular ed children -- nonspecial-education children is probably the best way to describe it. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: But for charter schools?
This is for all students, actually. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Because you mentioned 6800 -- REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: One thing Mr. Armbrister should explain, there is no specific language in the law that says $5200 per child. What he is describing is, there are criteria that follows the child driven by a formula. And then from the analysis that the 136 RESOLUTION 980766 school district has done, they make a transaction of the 6800. And then they -- there is a gap between the 6800 to the 5200, that I am interested also in that gap between that 52 to that 68, and how do you come to the interpretation. Because you are either come to the interpretation based on law or regulation. And I would be very interested in how you make that determination, since there is no specific language that says 52 versus 68.
The clerk is handing out to you -- REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: 52 is their number.
Right. The clerk is handing out to you right now the forms that we used to calculate the per pupil revenue for the charter schools. And maybe that's the best place to start on this. You have one -- I will wait until he finishes passing that out.
Mr. Armbrister, it is our practice to provide materials to the committee. 137 RESOLUTION 980766 If there are additional requests, we will try to provide them. That is not yours to explain; that's ours to explain.
Yes, ma'am. If we look at the one entitled, on the third line, Total 1997-'98 expenditures, and then it has parenthesis at October 1997, this is the calculation that the state provides us to calculate the per-student expenditure for charter school students. We start out with the total expenditures of the school district, which is on that top line of $1.5 billion, $1,529,822,300 -- REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Excuse me. That's the school district's budget?
That's correct. And this is in the law. This is explicitly set forth in the law. And, in fact, I have a copy -- and I have multiple copies -- of the form that we actually file with the state that includes these numbers. And what the formula tells you to do is to take a total number of expenditures, and deduct from those expenditures those items listed 138 RESOLUTION 980766 below, which include monies for special education programs, which is noted on the form as $153.8 million. They tell you to deduct nonpublic school programs. The school district did not have any expenditures in that category, for example. Adult education programs, for which the school district spends $1.7 million. Community junior college education programs, for which we have no expenditures in that column. Student transportation services, $50 million. Facilities acquisition, construction, and improvement services, for which we have no 15 expenditures. Debt service, the amount that we pay on the bonds that we borrowed to build schools, and et cetera, of about $53 million. Internal fund transfers. These are fund transfers among what we call our enterprise funds. So food service funds, things like that, that the general fund supports from time to time of a half a million dollars. And then the federal expenses which are, in effect, the Title grants that we receive, 139 1 RESOLUTION 980766 which are noted here as about $144 million. Now, these are the categories based on the state form that we are required to deduct from our total expenditures. Then the total deduction -- REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Let me stop you. When you say deduct the federal, you are deducting the federal because the federal money is going directly to the charters?
Are intended to go directly to the charters, that is correct. So they should not receive the -- and my philosophy. Excuse me. But I think the philosophy of all of these deductions, quite frankly -- and maybe Mr. Daniels can speak on behalf of the state -- but we interpret the philosophy of these deductions is that it would not be appropriate for the school district to pass on the revenue because these are not generally expenses which the charter schools are going to incur. That is my interpretation of what the state law provided. But that's the basis for the 140 RESOLUTION 980766 deductions. So when you get down, the total amount of those deductions total $405 million. And you come up with a net expenditure of $1.1 billion. The formula then tells you to go forward and to take what we call the ADM, or the Average Daily Membership, which is basically the enrollment of students to use a --
This is average daily membership, so it is effectively enrollment. It is enrollment. So 214,397 students, as we report to the state. And you basically divide that number into the net expenditures, and you come up with $5,246. Now, what the math will -- and then the bottom half of the table reflects -- excuse me, reflects the calculation for the additional amounts that charter school students who are deemed to be special education students would receive. And that calculation is based on the special education program expenses versus the 141 RESOLUTION 980766 average daily membership based on those numbers. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: One thing I would like to, if I could, say to the members of the Council. You heard the Superintendent make a statement about special education. And the statement was made that the difference between charter schools and regular special ed was that in 1993, special red was changed. And the reason that the state changed special ed from what was called excess costs is because school districts were abusing special ed and was dumping individuals in special ed to get more money. And the reason that the state changed the formula is, basically, it hasn't come up with a formula that it can strike a balance between school districts dumping individuals in special ed, and gaining $10,000 more, versus to how they figure they strike a balance. So if you hear local school districts scream about, well, you don't pay us for special ed, and there is some question about decisionmaking by local school districts in terms of where they put 142 RESOLUTION 980766 kids in special ed and do those kids stay in special ed for their entire existence there in the education institution, and the problem is, it doesn't seem those kids are coming out of special ed, and the state and the General Assembly is taking the position, people need to figure out a better system. It is an issue we will probably address this year. But I want you to be clear. When the statement is made, well, the state just put a cap on it, it is driven by local school districts who just didn't, in my view, deal with it in an honorable way.
If I could address the last point, which is the difference. I would call your attention to that $405,000. And this is where I think charter schools, who indicate that there is this difference between what the school district spends per child, which is the total cost, would be the $1.5 billion, versus what they receive, which is the base on the $1.1 million. And if you divided the 214,000 students into the $405,000, you would have just 143 RESOLUTION 980766 under $2,000, maybe or hundred dollars, which I think represents the difference that many of the -- you know, that was represented here today as the difference between what the charter schools get and what the school district actually spends. But, again, you would have to ask the state as to the rationale for the deductions that they required us to make in calculating the formula. So that, in fact, is the basis for that distinction. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: But it seems to me, Mr. Armbrister -- I understand what you are doing is, basically what you are doing is, you are bringing the gross amount down of the Philadelphia School District, and then you are dividing in the number of 3,000 in a less amount. So you figure that's basically why they should receive less.
We're not doing it. We are doing -- REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: I understand you are saying that the state. But my question is, when you say student transportation services, which is $50 million, how is that line item listed? 144 RESOLUTION 980766
That is what we report to the state as to what we spend every year for student transportation. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: And you are saying that charter schools do not necessarily, based on state law, this is what you're saying, do not necessarily qualify for state transportation, so you, in a sense, are removing them from being eligible for that.
I am not saying anything. I am following the rules that the state provided. And I think you would have to ask the state for the rationale. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Do you have specific language either in some type of regulation or law that says --.
Actually, I have a form that the state requires us to fill out that tells us what to deduct. Do you have a copy of the law with you? Because the law is pretty clear, and it is not ambiguous. This is one of the few places in the law where it really is not ambiguous. This is not 145 RESOLUTION 980766 left to interpretation at all. We are following the exact edict of the state law. We are going to find that for you. We have a copy of the law with us. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Madam Chairperson, if I could at some point, Dr. Daniels, I think it would be appropriate if we brought him to get some clarity between the Department of Ed's interpretation, if we could bring him up to the panel. Dr. Daniels, can you come up to the panel. I would like to get some clarity on this issue of these line items that Mr. Armbrister has described. Have you seen a copy of this?
Yes, I have; both here and in my office. So I had pre-knowledge. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Do you have a copy with you? DR. DANIELS; I can share. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Can you respond to what Mr. Armbrister just described?
Mr. Armbrister, you were about to share a form with us which you 146 RESOLUTION 980766 said required certain reports.
Sure. We have the form, and we have also found the appropriate reference in the legislation. We don't have multiple copies.
We have Xerox, obviously. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Go ahead.
The $50 million for transportation. Basically, the law was set up to not pass through to the charters costs that school districts were incurring that weren't relevant for charters. For example, in many counties in the Commonwealth, school districts pay a significant contribution to community colleges, whatever line that is, Function No. 1700, whatever. I am an old business manager, but the memory is fading. So they don't pass it through. Now, that's not relevant to Philadelphia. But there are some other costs that aren't passed through because the district would still provide the services; therefore, the district 147 RESOLUTION 980766 should retain the money. So specifically on transportation, since the law envisions charter school public students having access to transportation, as they have now for public schools and nonpublic schools, Section 1361 of the law was specifically put into the bill by reference to bus miles beyond a 9 border of any district. 10 And I can tell you there are some suburban districts west of the city whose kids are coming into charters. And in some cases they are arranging transportation, if it is within 10 miles. They are following the law. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: So you are saying --
They retain the obligation, as well; is that what you're saying? They keep the money.
Let me clarify for myself. 148 RESOLUTION 980766 They retain the money, and they retain the obligation to transport students to a reasonable district. And according to 1361, that reasonable district is miles of the city's 6 boundaries? 7
Correct. 8 So transportation funds are deducted 9 and kept in the school district because any 10 transportation services provided to the charter school are provided by the school district. And if you look at the common practice in interpreting this law throughout the Commonwealth, whether it be Erie, whether it be State College where they considered this issue very carefully, they are providing busing both to charter schools beyond 10 miles and to charter schools within their district at the same level of service that they provide to the other students of their age range. Now, in terms of the state point of view on this, we issued over a year ago a basic education circular to that effect. Every other school district --
Do you have that 149 RESOLUTION 980766 circular with you, or a copy of it?
I don't. It is in every charter's operators manual. And I believe all our school districts have a copy of that manual. I can get you a copy.
Representative Evans has seen a copy of that, where we clarified that it should be provided at the same level. And I am not being disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable.
The school district is providing transportation in that fashion. And there is a difference in the outlook between the Commonwealth and the School District of Philadelphia in that regard. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Dr. Daniels, I would like to say this particularly to my colleagues to the Council. As Councilwoman Clark said earlier, I think that the purpose for this hearing is to really 150 RESOLUTION 980766 figure out a way that it is not we versus us. It is really a process to try to figure out if we can do clarity. I don't think that court is the way to solve things, and I don't think that, obviously, getting into these legislative battles. So there does seem to be a difference of opinion. The state did put out a particular position that clearly stated throughout the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania -- and obviously the school district has to answer to the state. I would like to have the school district answer in a very specific way why haven't you, if every other school district around the issue of transportation, why haven't you in a very specific way adhered to what the Department of Education has stated, which is the organization which we in the General Assembly empower to oversee 501 school districts, why haven't you in a very specific way adhered to what came down from the Department of Ed without going to court?
We didn't take ourselves to court on this; we were sued by someone else on this issue. 151 RESOLUTION 980766 But I am going to allow Jackie Sparkman, our General Counsel, to address this issue. REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL HORSEY: Excuse me. May I ask the same question in a different way? Why hasn't the school district developed a funding process for charter school children? (Applause.)
I am sorry; I am not sure I understand the question. REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: The gentleman stated that you are bound to provide transportation under a formula for children in Philadelphia; isn't that correct?
It is issued on a basic education circular over a year ago, that is correct. REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: We have a new educational structure known as charter school. This involves children. Why hasn't the school district developed a process for getting those kids to those 152 RESOLUTION 980766 charter schools? If they fall into the process in public school, or parochial school, and they are now members of charter schools, why hasn't the Philadelphia School District developed a formula to get them to those charter schools?
Basically because -- REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: Which is the same question that Mr. Evans asked.
And I understand that now. I didn't understand that when it was asked originally. Basically our answer to that is because we feel that the bulletin that Mr. Daniels refers to is not consistent with the charter school legislation itself. And I will let our General Counsel respond further. JACKIE B. SPARKMAN, ESQ.: Jackie Sparkman, General Counsel, School District of Philadelphia. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Pull the mike closer. We can't hear you. We know Panel 3, you are pushed. 153 RESOLUTION 980766 We are going to try to tie this up and ask all of you to stay for more questions, get Panel 3 before we lose one of the main participants, and then we are still going to tie all this up. Thank you. Talk a little louder into the mike. And identify yourself first.
Jackie Sparkman, General Counsel, School District of Philadelphia. And my answer is somewhat constrained by the fact that we are in litigation over that issue. But the law very clearly says to all school districts, you are to provide charter school students within your borders transportation on the same basis that you provide your own students. The Philadelphia School District does not transport all of its students. We have definite rules about who gets transportation and under what circumstances. We provide transportation. We don't provide transportation, for example, to most of our kindergarteners because we try to provide them an education facility within their communities. 154 RESOLUTION 980766 We transport children for desegregation purposes. We transport special education students, when that's required by their IEPs. We cannot afford to transport all of our students. And, in fact -- REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Can I interrupt you? Isn't that really the issue about costs? Because what I heard you say is that you have rules. Obviously your rules, your policy, which is established by your School Board, is derived from -- where are your rules derived from?
If the question goes to if you have a pie and ten groups of expenditures, and your pie only satisfies eight, within what you have, you divy up to satisfy as much as you can. So if your question was going to is money part of the reason for your rules? No doubt. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: That's what I hear. But what I'm trying to get a sense of is, I heard one thing from the state department, which is the department that regulates every school 155 RESOLUTION 980766 district. You would agree with that? You would agree that the department regulates every school district; right?
Absolutely. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Since you agree that the department regulates every school district, then I do not understand how, if you tell me about some rules, and I'm trying to figure out what's the basis of the rules. Is the basis of the rules the school district's policy or is the basis of the rules the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania? Which one is it?
No. No. No. 18 REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: The rules regarding transportation.
To the extent that State College might be transporting everyone, the law as passed, as announced by the Supreme Court of this Commonwealth, is that no public school district has any obligation whatsoever to transport any child. So every school district in this 156 RESOLUTION 980766 Commonwealth creates its own transportation rules and guidelines. Some school districts don't transport any students. So the state doesn't require every school district to transport. To the extent that you transport, you have to treat charter schools and public schools the same. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: I yield to the Councilperson.
Ms. Sparkman is it your interpretation that the state regulation requires you to extend to every charter school student the same transportation as you would to every noncharter school student, not more and not less?
Yes. We are to provide -- well, first, when the statues were first written, they were in written in terms of public and nonpublic. And we are required to provide nonpublic school students transportation on the same basis as we transport public school students.
So that pulls it into one system. Whatever you provide for your own 157 RESOLUTION 980766 system, you provide for them in terms of transportation?
But we already established that charter schools are public schools.
Yes. And they are two prongs of a public school system today. They are separate prongs. Sometimes when you're talking about it, you are trying to say that they are an offshoot of our prong. They are not. The state law makes them separate, independent schools.
But however they got here, they are here, and they are now a part of you. They are a part of -- everybody I ask says charter schools are public schools.
They are public schools, but they are not part of the School district Of Philadelphia. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Well, why are they in other districts across in Commonwealth, 158 RESOLUTION 980766 which the Philadelphia school district is a part of this Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, why is this being treated somewhat different than other locations?
Every other location. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: Every other location. Why is this being treated -- I don't understand, why does this Philadelphia School District think it is above the law and it is unique? I don't understand that. I don't understand, if every other school district, if every other school district is adhering to what the Department of Education is stating, I don't understand with whatever you just expressed, why do you think you are above it? I don't understand that.
We certainly do not think we are above the law. We do think that we have a right to express our view of what is an appropriate interpretation of state law. And if it becomes necessary for a court to determine what that interpretation is, then that's the way that the Democratic system provides 159 RESOLUTION 980766 for people to have issues of law determined. And we cannot speculate or make a judgment as to why other school districts have responded to this issue in the way that they have. REPRESENTATIVE EVANS: I guess this would be my last comment, Madam Chairperson. I apologize, because I don't want to be argumentative with anyone. Obviously this will be solved in court. And I personally think it is a mistake from a perception standpoint. Now, you may argue from a legal standpoint. And you and Clay seem to be very intelligent and adept attorneys, and that's great. But you are going to lose from a perception standpoint. Because my observation is that if 500 other school districts are addressing this particular issue because of common practice in some way, I think it is a mistake. I am just giving you my opinion. I am no lawyer. I am giving the perception of the John and Jane Q. Citizen.
We appreciate your opinion. 160 RESOLUTION 980766 CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Madam, members of the panel, we will hear these last two questions from Councilman Cohen and State Representative Horsey. And then we will bring up Michael Carp and Panel 3 and ask that you stand by, because we are not done. Just as in the case of Superintendent Hornbeck, we don't want to lose an important panel member.
Chairwoman, we all can't stay here this afternoon. We have some other obligations that we have to address. So we will try to stay as long as we can and have someone here throughout this session. But we all cannot stay for the duration of the afternoon. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Certainly. We all have other obligations, too. Please work with us. Now, we excused the Superintendent, but we will ask that you work with us. We all have other obligations. REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: Madam 161 RESOLUTION 980766 Chairperson, I just have one observation to make just one quick one, and that is, you have not answered my question. My question is, why hasn't the Philadelphia School District developed a process, a plan, a plan, for transportation of charter school kids? You have not. You just said you have gone to court. You just said there is nothing in the provision. But the Philadelphia School District hasn't developed a plan for charter school children. I mean, the state will mandate one, if that's what you're interested in. But why hasn't the Philadelphia School District done that? (Applause.) CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: With that, we are going to hold up, our stenographer has to change. So we will take a break for a few minutes to allow that time. (Short recess.) - - - 162 RESOLUTION #980766 CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Last question for 3.
Thank you, Madam Chair. If I were sitting at the desk at the table where the school district representatives are and I were asked the question that Representative Evans asked, I think I would want to be able to say "we treat the charter students the same as we treat the public school students," and I'm mystified that I'm not hearing that. And I hear a lot of other things that I have great difficulty understanding, "we're in court, we can't talk," all of which from a public point of view is not healthy conversation. Why can't you say "We treat charter students just like all other public school students."
Thank you, Councilman Cohen. I'm sorry, I thought I did say that, that we provide transportation to the charter schools on the same basis that we provide transportation to our own students. If they're special ed students whose IEP requires that they have transportation, they get transportation.
All right. Thank you 163 RESOLUTION #980766 for that answer. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: We'll ask you to stand by. Panel 3. Thank you. We know we're rushing everybody and we know we're holding up everybody at the same time. Everybody's testifying does not have a schedule, and we're sorry to rush everybody. I will read Panel 3 names: Charter school representatives, Ms. Gail Hawkins Bush, Alliance Charter School; Ms. Madeline Shikomba, Center for Economics & Law Charter School; Mr. Hector Bonilla, Eugenio Maria de Hostos Community Bilingual Charter School; Mr. Michael Carp, who has to leave, Family Charter School, so we're asking him to come up immediately and make his presentation; Dr. Vuong Thuy, Multi-Cultural Academy Charter School; Dr. Phil Esbrandt, Drexel University/Foundations Technical Assistance Center for Public Charter Schools; and Dr. Gail Meister, Drexel University/Foundations Technical Assistance Center for Public Charter Schools; West Oak Lane Charter School; and also Ms. Christine Wiggins Imhotep Charter School. 164 RESOLUTION #980766 Michael Carp, would you make your presentation first? Would somebody pass him a mike because he has to leave. I promised him this morning, and we want to allow him to make that presentation and then we will continue. Thank you very much. We will not call on Mr. Michael Carp, Family Charter School to make his statement.
Thank you very much, Councilwoman Blackwell, and thank you everybody who is with you today. I just wanted to say that our charter school, which is Family Charter School, has dedicated itself to serving the children in the Mantua Section primarily who we felt had the most needs. We actually went to the local elementary school and we asked the principal to identify for us the children who are in the pre-K and the K program in her school who had the most needs and needed the most help. We went to the public housing development, we went to the Scattered Site Housing Office, and we asked all these people which children are most at risk, which children have the most needs, We'd like to work with them and give them a very humanistic approach and a very intensive approach to help them and work with their families. 165 RESOLUTION #980766 We view it as a whole family program. I think what you'll find, if I divert just for one for second, among all the charter schools that you've seen here and from my experience in speaking to all the charter school people, every charter school is special in that it is really, truly committed to a section of the community which is identified. Some work with older children, some work with younger children, they're all different ranges. But what you will find consistently is the charter school groups have said we have a group of people who are not well served by the system as it is and we want to put our hearts and our soul in to dedicating ourselves to giving a better life to these children. And it's that compassion, that sense of commitment which translates through the whole school. That's really -- to explain to everybody, that's I think the most important single thing that makes these schools work. It's that human element that the leadership in that school and the staff together with the leadership have really imbued into the students. In our school, I say our most singular attribute is we view it that every child that's in 166 RESOLUTION #980766 our school, every child, we take a personal emotional commitment that we want that child to succeed. We take the view that every child has a right to have a decent life, that every child has a right to be loved, every child has a right to go forward into their life with some kind of strong, good self-image, and not just educational piece, but also the sense that someone loves that child, that someone cares about that child, and that child can grow up in an emotionally healthy atmosphere. We, in fact, doubled the number of people in each classroom after the first week because we saw the devastation that many of these children felt. We have 14 children in a classroom. After the first week, we had an aide in every classroom besides the teacher because we saw that children needed that extra nurturing. But that's typical of the kind of feeling that the charter school folks often have. They really want to reach out and help the children. In our school, again, we are seeing that by early on putting in the effort to working with the children, being patient, and especially working with each parent. I'll give you an example of a 167 RESOLUTION #980766 couple of things we do that are a little bit different. We start off with attendance. By the way, our school has children, mostly kindergarten and 1st grade. We have one combined class of 2nd and 3rd grade. In every year we will add on another grade. As the kids get older, we'll move on. But we start off with attendance. We want every kid to be in school every day. When we have parents who don't deliver the kids to the school, we call up immediately. When no one's answering the phone, when the mother is sleeping, when there's a problem getting the child to school, we go to the home, we pick up the kid, and we bring that child to the school. " We extend that to working with parents. We require the parents to drop off the child into the school building, not just the kid walks over.
We expect the parent to drop the child off every morning and pick the child up inside the school building every afternoon. We're able to have contact almost every day where necessary with the parent. Where the parent doesn't bring the child and someone else does, we will contact the parent on 168 RESOLUTION #980766 the telephone in the afternoon, in the evening, we will follow through to speak to the parent. But again, our focus is -- and we do have parenting programs, but the focus is having everybody have a strong personal commitment to helping that child to do well. And that's what we feel is necessary for children. And I will tell you, we have seen in the last three months -- we've already been in operation three months -- a truly dramatic improvement with many children who being at the beginning of the school year we thought maybe would not be able to work out very well, would need a lot of special assistance, would need a lot of individualized learning programs. And we've seen by having a lot of compassionate understanding with the child, there's been a big different. By the way, another thing is different from a lot of other schools, we never send a child home from school for discipline. When a child does not act well in school, we have found the child has to be worked with and talked to. But for us, saying to a child, "you misbehaved, you're being suspended," this does not help the child. This teaches the child that if you want to get out of 169 RESOLUTION #980766 going to school, just misbehave and they'll reward you by sending you home. But again, this is all part of the that compassion and dedication to the child that we have found to be successful. It's not easy, but that's why charter schools, hopefully, will get more public support because of the dedication that all of us in the movement have to truly focusing on the child. That's our basic thing. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Let me say that this school is in my area. It's located in Mantua. This school has a lot of parents who are fourth generation folks who receive assistance. It's in the same area as McMichael Public School where we a kid, a youngster named Tylon Kyler (ph) to meningitis I guess about a year and a half ago and with whom many of the parents -- these are like fourth generation kids who've come from broken homes and who've had a very, very difficulty time. " And what Michael Carp is bringing to 170 RESOLUTION #980766 treat a whole family, he calls it Family Charter School, to double the adults who are in the classroom, to try to reach out to make sure a whole family eats, to try to really, really take on people at the bottom rung of the ladder and to seriously be involved with them is a 24-hour-a-day job. And all that it entails, going to homes, interacting with these families in this community really, really are he absolutely deserves to be commended, and we personally and certainly this committee and all of us owe you a sincere debt of thanks for what you're doing. We thank you. Thank you for being here.
Thank you very much, Jannie. (Applause.) CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Gail, you can introduce yourself and then proceed with your testimony. Thank you.
I want to thank you very much for having this hearing today. I think it's been both worthwhile for the school district as well as for the charter school movement. I'm Gail Hawkins Bush, and I am the chief operating administrator and director of the Alliance for Progress Charter School, which is 171 RESOLUTION #980766 currently located in a temporary facility on North Broad Street, but as of January 1, we will be located 18th and Cecil B. Moore Avenue. We are founded by Women's Christian Alliance, which is the oldest social service agency in North Philadelphia. It's over 80 years. It was started by a black female doctor, Dr. Coppen to foster programs for foster children and specialized social services. We are from K to 3. We have three Kindergartens, two 1st grades, two 2nd grades, and one 3rd grade. We are open from 7:00 in the morning until 6 o'clock at night. We are a 11-month school with a total wrap-around services. I'm very lucky this afternoon to have several parents from the Alliance for Progress Charter School. I ask that they raise their hands. Some of them were here earlier, as well as our parental engagement coordinator Jacklyn Winston who works hand in hand with our parents. We believe very firmly that young people in particular this age need to be steeped in standards, computer technology, as well as foreign languages. We teach two foreign languages from the kindergarten, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grade. We are very 172 RESOLUTION #980766 much meeting a need in our community because of the influx of lots of housing development, and we are fortunately located across from a local public school and we're providing a need because of our class size. We are class size in all our 7 classes. We originally were going with two 8 kindergartens, and we found the need was so great 9 that we decided to open a third kindergarten. 10 We are very much involved in the 11 partnership between the parent and student as well 12 as the school. And so we work very, very closely 13 with the parents. We have embarked on some very 14 creative endeavors. We're getting ready to launch 15 what we call the observation card which will be like 16 the said report card but it will have a joint 17 feedback from the teacher as well as the parent so 18 that we can work very collaboratively together with 19 our students. 20 Because we are fortunate enough to be 21 founded by Women's Christian Alliance, we can offer 22 the kind of intimate social services designed to make families whole in that particular North Philadelphia area. We are very excited about our new 173 RESOLUTION #980766 facility, and we will moving in our new facility as of January to start the new student year. Our parent participation is overwhelming. We get more parents out than I've seen in other endeavors that I have been involved in in education in Philadelphia. And you all know that I come from a long history of both higher education as well as being a consultant to many educational agencies here in Philadelphia. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Questions?
Our anticipated capacity eventually will be almost 300 students.
Do you plan to maintain primary grades or are you going to go up through the middle grades?
We are looking to going up to 174 RESOLUTION #980766 middle grades. That is our future goal. At this point, we'll take the third grade to the fourth grade, the fourth grade to the fifth grade, and we're chartered to the sixth grade. We are very -- the board at Women's Christian Alliance realizes there's a great need for additional forms of education in our particular area. So they would like us to consider going up to the eighth grade or perhaps even into high school once we reach that plateau.
But your plan as you're presently structured is K through 12 --
Right. Or two grades, depending on the need. But we find that in your our particular area, as you know, Councilwoman Clark, there is a great need for the earlier services such as kindergarten and comprehensive kindergarten care. As I said to you before, we are from 7:00 in the morning until 6 o'clock at night. We have a full breakfast program and lunch program, and we provide both before-school and after-school care. 175 RESOLUTION #980766 We're also an 11-month school, which is a very different kind of concept.
You said that, I wasn't quite sure what I that means. What does an 11-month school do and how does it compare to a or 7 a 10-month school. 8
Well, we will keep our 9 students involved in an educational process practically up until the end of July 30th, and then August, everybody needs a vacation, August will be a free month both for the teachers as well as the students. But we will engage them in, to coin another person's phrase, edutainment during the summer that will then grasp the concepts that they've learned for the full year. So education will be an ongoing process.
So your kids don't go to school from September until June?
No, they'll go from September until July. We started September 13th. We opened a week later, but they will go from September to July. We also -- other than just the normal holidays, presentation as we call them, the Christmas holidays and Thanksgiving, our school day 176 RESOLUTION #980766 is longer and we attend school longer. Our school year is longer.
How do you do with respect to holidays? Is the holiday schedule the same as the Philadelphia School District schedule?
We don't have some religious holidays off, and we're not off on certain major holidays that we feel that it's important for our students to be involved in school. As you know, our community is steeped in latch-key kids, and so for us, having our particular student population with us is much more of a benefit kind of educational experience than it would be for them to be at home.
May I? Just to pursue that further, do you do this within the funding the school district provides?
Not at this point, other than supplementary grants that we're all entitled to and are expected to apply for.
Well, I don't 177 RESOLUTION #980766 understand how you manage the longer school year and the longer school day.
Yes. We have a before-school program and an after-school program. We have teachers that we've contracted from September to July 30th.
Yes, they do. And they get professional development. They're contracted -- by contract, they are required to attend professional development sessions once a month. We have teacher meetings every two weeks. We're very steeped because we have some collaborative relationships with some of our universities in our area.
What percentage of your teachers are certified by the State?
In other words, would 178 RESOLUTION #980766 you meet the regular requirement?
Yes, we meet -- we just went through a very intensive evaluation from the State. We all did. And ours was very successful. We had a very fair and just evaluation.
Gail, just let me be clear. You have teachers who come to work at 7 o'clock in the morning?
No, no, no. I'm sorry. Our teachers start at 8:30. I don't want to mislead you. We have a before-school program. That is, we have part-time people that work in that before-school program. We have one of our teachers, though, who operates and administers the after-school program that starts from 3:00 to 6:00.
At the same rate as a person who works from 8:30 -- 179 RESOLUTION #980766
No. Her teaching salary is contracted through the Alliance for Progress Charter School. Her after school component which is connected to the Freedom School is contracted through Women's Christian Alliance.
I just want to be clear that as wonderful as your staff is, and I know some of them and I know them to be wonderful and I know the work that you're doing, they do regularly work a fairly standard school day.
And an elongated school day actually is a before-school program and a after-school program?
Managed by professional teachers as well as part-time people in the before-day and part-time people in the after-school program?
And you do this to accommodate working parents whose schedules require them to drop their children off and still get to work on time and get home from work without breaking 180 RESOLUTION #980766 speed laws in the evening.
Okay. What has been the acceptance of this program? How old are you?
I was going to say, wait a minute, Councilwoman Clark. Can we talk here? Is this a matter of record? And we know each other well. I'll let Dwight deal with that. Is that on the Scrabble board or what? (Laughter.)
All right. I thank you very much. I wanted to ask those questions to clarify the record. Thank you, Madam Chair.
My name is Chris 181 RESOLUTION #980766 Thomas Wiggins. I am the principal of Imhotep Institute Charter High School. Imhotep is I-m-h-o-t-e-p. And we are a math, science, and technology twilight school. Right now we are at 7500 Germantown Avenue, and soon we'll moving to 21st and Godfrey in the community that is known as West Oak Lane Germantown area. We service, as many of our schools do, high school students. And I wanted to correct the record. I heard the School District say that most of the charter schools were elementary. There are charter schools, eight of 13 them service middle and high school children. So I think that math teaches me that there are more serving middle and high school students in this City addressing the needs of middle and high school children. Our school day is 12:30 to 6:00. We have a before-school program that has the students going to places of work or across this community being involved in education, and they are all required to do service learning in before-school program, and we are multi-site. Once a week, like today, there are 50 students at the African-American Museum. There are students that go to Arbory for science. There are students that will be going to Freedom Theater. 182 RESOLUTION #980766 They go to the libraries, but it is part of their actual school day to travel once a week and learn from around the City of Philadelphia and use those resources that are available to them. I wanted to make note that my colleagues all are concerned in talking to you about children families, parents, community, education, teaching and learning and realize that some of our challenges come from the issues of School District of Philadelphia who basically had lawyers and accountants talking about issues. And we basically are dealing with how we can address the needs of children in this City. So most of us came up with an idea that met the needs of children and families in this City. I am a School District of Philadelphia child. I went School District of Philadelphia schools. I had all of my children to attend School District of Philadelphia schools and I am the child of two administrators from School District of Philadelphia. So I have a strong love for public education. My only reason for opening a charter school is realizing that there were needs of a lot of parents and children that were not being met in 183 RESOLUTION #980766 our traditional public schools. And I also know when we talked about school reform, as a former teaching and learning network facilitator trying to go into the classrooms and work with school reform where doors were shut and people were told not to go in deal with change in the Martin Luther King cluster, not being allowed to work with teachers for the benefit of children, that charter schools came about because many of us wanted to do that after school reform and make it happen now. As a parent of a child that was in the top 10 percent, but yet when she went to the college was said that she was a remedial reader, I was concerned because I totally supported public education and thought that sending my child to public school was the best thing I could do for her. And then sitting there and having college professors say that this child did not have writing skills or research skills to do a research paper because in the traditional schools it is not mandatory to do a research paper until grade 11 or 12. And yet and still colleges and university want our young people to be able to do research and to write very well they need to start it in elementary school. So 184 RESOLUTION #980766 we're not trying to have an adversarial relationship with any system, we're just trying to do what's best for children and address the needs of our parents. Generally, I know that in working with all of the directors, I see a completely different environment than when I went to cluster meetings or meetings with administrators that were only dealing with my school or my building or my environment.
Everyone comes together to see how we can support each other and help the children in this community. The equity issue is a big issue especially because as community-based organizations, we need support to make sure all of our children get the same things as a child in the School District of Philadelphia. A charter school cannot write a $38 million check to go and build a building for their school. They must find a way in that same basic operating budget which should be just for the program, to not only build a school, pay the salary, have a after-school, before-school program, have any other extra program, everything has to come out that operating budget. And quite often, it is a challenge because it is moved by the community. We just need to make sure that the School District of 185 RESOLUTION #980766 Philadelphia, the City and all see us as public school and that our children get what is fair and equitable and free public education since that's what our parents in community asked for.
Good afternoon. I have a question for Gail, and I guess Christine can also respond. This is regarding the equity issue. I met with Christine and a few of her staff on Friday, and Yvonne Epps and I were having a discussion about the communication school. And, Gail, you're building a new school. And in your testimony you said that there's a collaboration that you have with several universities. I don't want to get into all the details or don't really want to know a whole lot, but how can you do a new school and -- is it because of some outside fund-raising?
No. Our school, as you know, and perhaps I didn't make that clear, we are founded by Women's Christian Alliance. Woman's Christian Alliance is, as you know, one of the oldest social 186 RESOLUTION #980766 service agencies in North Philadelphia; it's over 80 years old. And our school -- and when we say we're building a new school, we have to make that real clear. Yes, it is a new facility, but it is a modular facility which makes a big difference in building construction, as you are aware of. Because we were founded by Women's Christian Alliance, Women's Christian Alliance then decided that in order to bring this to fruition that they would lease a building for our particular use as a school. And we've had some angst because we have not been able to get into that building. We will be moving in that building very shortly. And so we had to seek other options for space such as the Y and the OIC Human Service building. Our collaboration with the local universities is not in dollars. It is in kind, professional development. My personal relationship, I am, as you know, a full-time ABD student at Temple, and I was lucky enough to have some working relationship with the School of Ed. So we formed those partnerships that way, but not with dollars. And I have to make that real clear. Of course, you know this, Donna, that the -- Councilwoman Miller, excuse me. The charter school 187 RESOLUTION #980766 law does not allow us to buy any kind of facility. We have to renovate within certain specifications and certain rules and regulations. So WCA which is our founding agency, and that's very important, under the leadership of Marilyn Rivers decided to deal with this because of the need of their particular survey in the community, and as you know, what's going on as far as the development of housing and the increase of people moving into that part of North Central Philadelphia. There's no doubt that there's lots of movement on Cecil B. Moore Avenue. I mean, it's amazing to see what happened, but we're not reaping any kind of empowerment zone money or any kind of specialization based on that other than our relationship with Women's Christian Alliance which is the founding agent for the Alliance for Progress Charter School. I don't know whether I've answered your question, but I wanted to make that clear.
Our collaborative efforts with -- and that's a plus for us. As the other directors know, that we are fortunate enough to have an agency that is steeped in history and tradition 188 RESOLUTION #980766 in that community and to be connected with that. But we have universities, as you know, are crying and colleges. Michael Horsey knows this, I have a very long intimate relationship with Community College of Philadelphia. I've been working there for too many years to even mention because then Councilwoman Clark will understand how old I am. So quite frankly, that is what I bring to the table in essence in developing this particular process. But it's all in kind, and that's important.
That's great. And people also ask how did West Oak Lane Charter School, Representative Evans, seems as if in terms of just their facility just a little different, a little bit better, and I was wondering if it's better for a charter school to connect itself with maybe a CDC or with an organization such as Women'S Christian Alliance.
I'd just like to mention, my name is Phil Esbrandt and I'm the executive director of Foundations. One of the sets of observations we will be making about some of our 189 RESOLUTION #980766 work with charter schools deals with just that kind of concept and we take a look three different kinds of organizations that the current charter schools seem to fall in the categories, and that's one of them. Having some association with CDC or community based organization, and it's had success already.
Okay, thank you. I do have a couple more questions. Does your faculty belong to the PFT? Are they unionized?
No. Charter school law says that they have the right to form or they have to do that, but they can't belong to PFT to the current organization as representing the teachers' union in the City.
Councilwoman Miller, they can organize, all the schools can organize. People can organize the school. It can be the PFT, it can be the UAW, anybody, or their organization. They can organize.
Earlier when Dr. Ryder testified, he said that -- I don't know 190 RESOLUTION #980766 whether he said it or Mr. Skief said it. That one of the good things about a charter school is that they can be independent of the state mandates that make it burdensome to do some of the things you've talked about in terms of reform. What are some of those mandates that seems to be a barrier to improve the quality of education to our children? Anybody can answer. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: While he's coming, let me say that State Senator Shirley Kitchen was here, so we do want to note her for her attendance and to thank her. She couldn't stay, but she did come and we want to acknowledge her presence at our hearing. Thank you.
John Skief is my name. One of the most important impediments is the fact that if you -- nowadays, the public school system is divided into what is called small learning communities. Each one of those small learning communities has a mission or something that brings the teachers around that. One of the important things for a charter school is that we can choose who our staff will be. So therefore, those who are serious and committed to what we're trying to do can 191 RESOLUTION #980766 be a part of us. A lot of the work rules which forbid certain things to go on, we can do and we have the opportunity to do. So it's those types of bureaucratic things which have been identified within the public school as impediments we're free of.
If they unionize, won't you still have those kind of things happen?
Well, as far as we're concerned, we have to, charter schools must provide the same benefits as the public schools do. And as far as I'm concerned, if you relieve the need for a union, that is, you listen to your teachers, you take advice and consent from your teachers, and you're fair to your teachers, then we don't have to worry about some outside entity deciding for us what's best for our children.
Well, I've heard that teachers have helped paint and helped clean and helped fix up buildings and all those kinds of things that you just don't normally don't have. I'm used to doing that type of stuff coming from a nonprofit world where everybody wore a lot of different hats. Okay, thank you. 192 RESOLUTION #980766
Again, Phil Esbrandt from Drexel University Foundations. There's a lot of flexibility, but there's also a lot of ownership so people who start an organization begin to build it from the bottom up have a certain pride and ownership of that which they then translate into personal action to get things done. And so there's a commitment to participate with leadership to make the school work, something that also cuts across the parents that want to be involved as well as staff members. I think all these groups will explain in some way how that happens because that's part of their record so far.
Good afternoon, Madam Chairperson and Members of the City Council and also State Representative. I don't know your name, but I know. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Michael Horsey.
Excuse me for that. My name is Vuong Thuy, V-o-u-n-g; the last name, T-h-u-y. I am not the Principal of a charter school, but I'm the headmaster of a charter school. I am the headmaster of the Multicultural Academy Charter 193 RESOLUTION #980766 School in the Logan Section of Philadelphia, one of the poorest neighborhoods. You represent us, Councilwoman. At this point, we're serving 125 student from many different part of the world, from Asia, from Europe, from South America, from Africa. Next year we will serve 150, and the following year we'll serve 200. Our children are international, many of them LEP students. LEP means Limited English Proficient student. They come as far as Northeast. Many of them are children of Russian emigrants or Ukrainian emigrants. I'd like to talk about that. That create a problem for us. I realize that this hearing has been going on for quite a while and many of you have not had a chance to relax or to take lunch. I'm not here to brag about our school. I'd like to take this opportunity to show to you that the concept of charter school does work. For example, our daily attendance is 95 percent, and we have one or two latenesses every day; sometime none. I remember vividly five years ago when I was still a teacher at Olney High School, the new principal and he raised the attendance rate from 40 194 RESOLUTION #980766 to 60 percent, and he got $150,000 award. And we are achieving now up to three months 95 percent. So we must have done something right. Beside that, when we have the first parent meeting, 85 parents out of 125 show up. For years I was serving at 7 Olney High School, I did not see many parents 8 showing up for that. Here again, this is an 9 indication that we must have done something right. 10 Talking about the staff, 100 percent of 11 our teachers are certified, 100 percent. And we pay 12 them from 8:00 to 3:30, but many of them stay until 13 6 or 7 o'clock every night, weekend as well. Don't 14 think that I'm exploiter. They volunteer their 15 time. They must love the school, they must like the 16 children. When I was teaching at Olney high school 17 I came to the school five minutes before 8:00 and I 18 left 2:30, and now my school day is 6 o'clock in the morning until 9 o'clock at night, seven days a week. If you don't believe me, pick up the phone; I'll answer the phone. So there's dedication right here. Why do we dedicate ourselves? Because we believe this will change the public education. We are a public school. Many times the parent called the School District of Philadelphia, 195 RESOLUTION #980766 they were told we are not, we are a private school. And that is very misleading and very troublesome for me. There are many things that I feel troublesome because of communication between the School District of Philadelphia. Many of you have covered these issues very well, but let me remind you of the law. The law right here that you and other people wrote. Section 172 say transportation must be provided to our students. So if the School District of Philadelphia refuse to do that, then maybe the staff have to do that. Now, we lost so many students. Most of them came from Russia, from Ukraine and they could not come to school because there's no 16 transportation. And the children emigrants, they do not have money to pay for the transportation. Believe me, some of them was crying. They wanted to come to school, but they can not because of this. There's something wrong right there, right here. And also communication from the School District has been troublesome many times. They make the public statement saying that they work with us, they support us, they do everything to make us survive. This is an example. In October, we 196 RESOLUTION #980766 received communication from the School District of Philadelphia about free workshop. And there's $333 per participant, $333 per participant, and they said they want to work with us, they want to support us.
I'd like the City Councilmembers and Lady Chairman to have a copy of this. This is really bothersome because it seems to me, and I hope that I'm not wrong, that they want to make some money out of this. To pay $330 for workshop, that doesn't make sense to me. Now, here again they say that they open the facility for you to use. " That bothers me, too. If they cannot provide it, don't make the statement. That is bothersome and misleading. Now, we have educated dropouts and former gangs of -- students who are former gangs. We're going to showcase the school on the 10th of December when the Indochina-American Council supporting organization will have the 16th annual award dinner. Many of you have received invitation. Come, we'll showcase to us. 197 RESOLUTION #980766 So my point here is that I left the public school system after years of service 4 because I believe that this work and I think is 5 working and very much for your attention. 6 CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you, Dr. 7 Thuy. A question from Councilman Cohen. 8
Doctor, was this Bowl 9 Content Institute, was this available to the 10 teachers in the regular schools and did they have to 11 pay the tuition? 12
The tuition was 14 charged to teachers in the charter schools but not 15 in the rest of the public schools? 16
I think your 18 complaint is well made. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Yes, and we would hope that the School Board would take Mr. Ingram will take a flyer back. And Mr. Armbrister, please take one of these and then if you would report to the Chair of this Committee, we will make -- myself and Dwight Evans as co-chair, we will make sure that we 198 RESOLUTION #980766 communicate the response to other members of the committee and to charter schools. Question from Councilwoman Miller to Dr. Thuy.
May I ask one more thing about transportation? When I was at Olney High School, all the students, Limited English Speaking student who live outside the neighborhood school was provided with transportation. And we have many LEP students in our school right now. I'd like to you look into that to see if there's any equity in that. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. I'm sorry, question will be for Mr. Armbrister. We'll let them testify, but Councilwoman Miller has a question for you with regard to this.
With regard to funding, special ed funding. I wasn't in the room 19 when the School District's panel was up. It's my understanding that the charter schools received special education funding but that funding does not include additional dollars for mentally gifted children whom it's my understanding is also -- regular public schools, it's my understanding they receive money mentally gifted as well as the 199 RESOLUTION #980766 learning disabled under special ed, and someone told me that charter schools cannot receive that funding for mentally gifted kids.
Under Act 22, the special education funding mechanism was changed so that there would not be a reliance upon funding for individual classifications, but that the funding would be averaged for a variety of classifications in the local school district and so a flat rate is now applied for special a ed student attending a charter school.
Irregardless to whether they're mentally gifted or whatever. You want to add something?
Yes. Clarence Armbrister, managing director of the School District. I'm advised by Ms. Castelbuono that with respect to mentally gifted, the definition that's used for funding purposes is a federal definition, and apparently the federal definition does not recognize mentally gifted as a classification, is my understanding.
Does that mean that payment is made on the basis of the mentally gifted child being a special ED child?
It means exactly the opposite, Councilman, that they're not because it's not recognized under federal law.
Councilwoman Miller's point was very well taken. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Mr. Bonilla.
My name is Hector Bonilla. I'm the principal of the Eugenio Maria de Hostos Community Bilingual Charter School. Our story is similar to the others. Hopefully by early spring of 1999, we'll be in a new facility on North Fifth Street and Cuyuga. We are a dual immersion bilingual school for the Spanish and for the English. We also have a core value system that we insist that all our students adhere to, citizenship cooperation, fairness, honesty, integrity kindness, pursuit of excellence, respect, and responsibility. We are located in one of the most economically depressed sections of Philadelphia, and we decided that we wanted to have smaller classes. So we are limited to 20 students per class, and 201 RESOLUTION #980766 presently we have 4th, 5th, and 6th grades. We will have a 7th grade next year, and by the year 2000 we're going to add an 8th grade. We have an extended year. We went from September 8th, and our class will last until July 16th. We have an extended day. We start classes at 8:30 sharp and we let them out 4:15 in our present facility. When we move to the Cuyuga Street facility, we will go to 5 o'clock. m. m. Because we are in a depressed community, it is our belief that sometimes our kids need to be with us more than other places. We have all of our parents have to sign a contract to have their students the matriculate in our school, that they will participate in the school and that they will adhere to the rules of the school and that includes helping students with homework. We also have a Parents' Council which now has recently constituted itself, which means eventually that the majority of our school board members will be parents. And again, I repeat, that since we serve a disadvantaged community, and although our students all over the City of Philadelphia, we earmarked the Hunting Park area as 202 RESOLUTION #980766 our target area. However, since we're not located on Sixth Street and Lehigh, we've had to provide bus services to our students who live in Hunting Park area because most of them come from very disadvantaged families, and that is costing us $700 a week. Our projection is that by the time we open up our new building, that will cost us between 80 to $90,000 to bring our students to our school. At present we have 93 percent attendance rate. I think that measures favorably with any other -- with the School District's standards. I don't want to editorialize, but I've heard a lot of speakers. And again, the other principals or headmasters of the charter schools, we all say the same story, we deal with children. That's our primary reason for doing this. I've heard some things said by people from the School District. I'm a new kid on the block, I'm not native to Philadelphia so I'm not privy to some of the stuff that happened before. However, I do know that federal law requires that special ed students be bussed. But that's not really something that's coming out of the goodness of the heart of the District of law Philadelphia, that's mandated by 203 RESOLUTION #980766 federal law. And yesterday I lost a student, an outstanding 4th grade student because her mother who is a full-time student in a physicians' assistance program at Temple University who walks four miles in each direction with a 10-year-old and a 6-year-old, drops of the 6-year-old at another school, then drops off her daughter at our school, had to leave because she no longer has an automobile. Secondly, she has a sister who has a problem with substance abuse so now she's had to take in children of her sister, which means that she has to take those kids to another facility. So rather than come to our school which she wishes to be at, she has to take them to a school that's closer to her, not necessarily her choice. Her choice is that because of economic constraints, she has to take her children to the school that's nearest to her neighborhood school as opposed to the school that's going to provided her children with the best education.
CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you, Mr. Bonilla. Truly sorry. Thank you. We have Dr. Gail Meister. 204 RESOLUTION #980766
Madam Chairperson, there is more school at the table to make a presentation -- two more, excuse me. And then maybe Gail and I can make our presentation. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: All right. Ms. Madeline Shikomba, you want to go next, Center for Economics and Law Charter School.
Hi, my name is Madeline Shikomba, spelled S-h-i-k-o-m-b-a. I'm the director of the Center for Economics and Law Charter School. I would like to extend my heart-felt thanks to Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell and State Senator Dwight Evans for the support they've given me and my school during the past couple months. Without their support and help, I don't think I would be around here today. And I'd also like to extend my thanks to Ann Verna for her support. As you know, my school ran into some difficulty in the past couple weeks in terms of the location of the building in which we were in. The owner of the building had misled me in terms of the situation in terms of how fast he would have the building ready. And as a result, some of the things that were supposed to be ready were not prepared to 205 RESOLUTION #980766 have ready. And our building was shut down because it violated certain fire code regulations. Despite the fact that it was shut down, we were able to reopen and relocate ourselves within two weeks at the Lincoln University Urban Center. Despite the shutdown, to attest to the faithfulness of my parents, I only lost 40 students out of 183 students I had. Now, that tells you the faith that the parents have in the charter schools by the fact that they remained with me. In fact, during our shutdown, we gave out educational packets so that the students would not lose too much time in terms of their education development. " So you can see that they believed in the program. They believed in my program and wanted to stay with my program. Since we have reopened, we have readmitted at least six students who had transferred to other schools. And today in the past week we have admitted three new students who were never were even in the school. So that also attests to the fact of how strong people believe in the charter 206 RESOLUTION #980766 school and also in a program that I am conducting. If you read the newspaper articles, the articles dealt with the building. It didn't deal with my program or say anything negative about my program because my program is strong and it's a very good program. We offer courses in economics, math, science, language, English, entrepreneurship, and computers. Macon has allowed us to use their computers, and so our students are now involved in a computer program. We are now at the point where we are asking the State to give us our funding because we are in compliance with them as far as we understand. We have submitted our budget, and that was due to some misunderstanding on the part of my accountant as to what he was supposed to do. But a budget was submitted. We are compliance with our staff. Everyone is certified except for one teacher. And we also received our certificate of occupancy from Lincoln, and we're in the process of negotiating with them for a lease. So we feel that State should be willing to release our funding that they have held up and so we're asking them to release our funding. 207 RESOLUTION #980766 The School Board has, because of our lack of CO and a lease, we have not signed our charter. However, because we do have both of those now inhand, we expect to sign our charter very soon. They have sent in an investigating team to investigate my program, but my understanding from what I've talked with the team, they have not found anything wrong with my program per se and I do not expect to have any negative things in the report that they will be sending in. Again, I'd like to stress the fact that parents are gung ho for charter schools. They want us and they feel that we can answer a need that they've been missing in terms of their children's development, and I think that we can fulfill those needs. I do not think that the crisis that I was involved in is in any way negatively impacting upon nor should it be negatively impacted upon the charter schools. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you very much, Ms. Shikomba. We know of your struggles and certainly support you.
You've really been, quote unquote, hanging in there. 208 RESOLUTION #980766
Excuse me, Madam Chairman. May I say one thing for the record? When we implemented charter school legislation a couple years ago, we recognized that some charter schools would have growing pains. So being cognizant of that, I'm willing to send a letter Secretary Hickcock and try to get your funding also. Thank you. (Applause.) CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you.
Good afternoon. My name is Tod Reynolds. I'm the director of operations for the West Oak Lane. West Oak Lane Charter School opened up on September 15th of this year through no small effort of State Representative Dwight Evans and the Ogontz Avenue Revitalization Corporation. We were fortunate enough to be of the charter schools to work with the CDC who was established in the community and it was a large, large effort on their part that enabled the school to open up. We currently have 548 students in our school, kindergarten through fourth grade with plans to go to 5th grade next year and a grade each subsequent year. Our curriculum is science and 209 RESOLUTION #980766 technology based. We have over 110 computers being placed in the last rooms and the computer lab in the school. So students and parents will have a large amount of access to the curriculum and the things that will be done in the classroom. We have a very successful parent volunteer program where parents when they come in the morning have the option to stay with their student in the classroom and act as volunteers to see the activities that are going on in the classroom and to work throughout the building supporting the staff and their child while they're in the school. We have a large after school program that services 75 to a hundred young people from the school on a daily basis and they are through various activities until their parents can come pick them up that goes through approximately 6:30. We have a successful program that is working very well and students are being monitored and they're working in small reading groups and their reading levels are being chartered at an early stage where if there are any problems they can identified and dealt with in an early basis instead of waiting until they're in the 4th, 5th, 6th grade to identify those problems. I'll be brief because I know other 210 RESOLUTION #980766 people have things to say. But some of issues that have come up concerning transportation and allocation are very important issues, but as my colleagues have also brought up, the lack of funding or capital for facilities to be built, there are a lot of new charter schools that are coming into existence, there are a lot of existing charter schools that wish to expand, and the lack of funding in the charter school law to accommodate or to assist us in expanding these schools to service more children I think needs to be addressed. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you very much. Let me say to those on the next a committee meeting Health and Human Services Committee, we are sorry to delay you. We have one more panel to hear so my guess is we'll be here a half hour and then we should be done. We have one or two speakers here and then we have one more panel and we will done. We have wrap up and be done. But I think it will take us a half hour if anybody's waiting or has to make a phone call or step out for a minute. Thank you.
Councilwoman 211 RESOLUTION #980766 Blackwell, Councilmen and Councilwomen and State Representatives, it's a pleasure to be here and share the microphone today with a number of educator entrepreneurs. I use that phrase warmly to describe these people who have more than stuck their necks out to make a difference for their school and their community. Actually, one other way I describe this group, they help communities achieve dreams. That's how we look at the start of charter schools in the State of Pennsylvania. My name is Phil Esbrandt and I'm the executive director of the Drexel University Foundations Technical Assistance Center. Freddie Reeseman heads the Division of Education at Drexel and Ronda Lower (ph) who is the CEO of Foundations formed a partnership last year. The partnership was originally designed to develop charter schools and charter school models. That program led to the formation of a Technical Assistance Center. We have worked with in the last 14 months 70 charter founding groups and operators, 70 different schools. Most of those, I'd say about 90 percent of those, in Pennsylvania, although we've worked in other states as well. 212 RESOLUTION #980766 There is a different dream for every one of those 70, a different plan, a different concept, yet all of them, I found, have been on target with holding children first and trying to serve parents and community in very positive ways. To try to put a handle on these 70 groups, Gail and I have worked to try to identify them in small groups, in groups of three. And Gail Meister who is the Associate Direct for the Technical Assistance Center will start to review and give you some of the characteristics of the group and some of the background generally that has described this movement in charter education today.
Good afternoon. I think you've heard in the descriptions of how people got started with their charter schools, as we have heard, there are three different types. We characterize them as grass roots groups of individuals who may not be educators; they might be. They might be parents who get together because they're seeking a more appropriate education experience for their children. They're not associated with any particular non-profit groups. The second kind of group are those that 213 RESOLUTION #980766 represent existing non-profit or profit making groups that deliver educational services to children or provide other youth serving activities. These have some kind of experience in the community already and exist as organizations. Generally speaking they're providing supplementary services and then now seek as charter schools to expand into the schooling area. The third type of group we see is a group that is associated with something like a community development corporation. They seek to establish a school because it's an outgrowth of their mission to serve the community and to revitalize the communities they serve. Schools for these groups are instruments to attract or retain families in the neighborhoods and serve as a means for improving the educational outcomes they want for their whole community. There's some implications for these three different types as they struggle to become charter schools to acquire their resources and the facilities they need to have smooth operations. Just some of the things we see very quickly. For the grass roots groups that he have 214 RESOLUTION #980766 no kind of affiliation with a settled or established group institution, they labor under the disadvantage of institutional informality and newness. They lack a formal organization. They lack the kind of history such an organization would bring. They also lack the resources to absorb the planning that has to go into the long and careful planning that has to go into establishing a charter school, and they lack access to capital. For the second category of groups that seek to establish charters, those that are existing preschools or private schools or other youth serving organizations, they actually have an advantage when they seek to become charter schools that they have some established policies and procedures and so they're able to start up more smoothly. They have an initial advantage. Thirdly, the charter schools which grow out the association with community development organizations have a deep advantage in terms of resources because those organizations with which they're associated have track records in the community, they have proven ability to obtain financing, and they often have facilities for a 215 RESOLUTION #980766 school. An issue that also affects how charter schools work is size. There is several ways that size impacts what charter schools can do and become. Now smallness is generally a characteristic that's a positive distinguishing feature for charter schools. Starting small and staying small allow an organization to solve some of the issues of identity and unity and leadership and vision that are problems for larger organizations. But in Pennsylvania it's economically infeasible to be too small because they have to look to fund-raising and large volunteer efforts to provide the kind of capital and resources they need to run their schools that is not provided by the per pupil allocation. So it's a problem especially in the first year we are they're at their smallest.
The Technical Assistance Center has five full-time employees, but it has 40 part-time consultants that work a little bit or in great detail with individual charter planners and operators. Some of the major issues we would like to reinforce came out dealing with financing and facilities today for many of the speakers. From our 216 RESOLUTION #980766 observations, there are some very credible partnerships that have been created through charter schools that may not have been possible without the start-up of charter schools. Some of the facilities, YMCA's community centers, church community centers, all have now served as facility partners with some of the charter schools. So some of the citations Gail made about the cost of start-ups and the inability of small groups to be able to finance certain facilities needs are made up by a community commitment and a partnership with charter schools. As indicated, charter do not receive any subsidy from the State concerning renovations, small amounts of construction, and purchase of property, which could lead to charters. I've heard from more than one charter planner that the good facilities are gone. Where do you go to next to find the facilities that can be converted to charter schools? There are only so many abandoned A & P type stores or factory buildings or office buildings that can be utilized for charters. And so some provision needs to be provided to establish a revolving loan fund or bond fund at the state level so that subsidies can 217 RESOLUTION #980766 be made to support the school renovations and constructions that needs to be done. We are also disappointed this year that the conversion process was not followed through on through a number of school districts, including Philadelphia. Approximately charter school 8 groups attempted to move from the planning document 9 stage to the application stage through a conversion 10 process. Some of those schools, the faculty and 11 parents voted. In other schools, they realized they 12 couldn't get majority votes and they couldn't get 13 information about the cost of converting a facility. 14 In areas where there are very few students 15 proportionally to ten years ago, using a facility, a part of the school could be used for a charter school or the entire school could be. But without a definition and an agreement on what it costs to convert from public school operation normally in a school district to a converted charter school,1 that becomes an impossibility. So we recommend that a committee be formed to be begin to work with state officials, local school district officials and some people in charter school conversion process to try to develop a formula that can be used, not only 218 RESOLUTION #980766 Philadelphia, but state wide, to guide the respective sides through the process because voluntarily I don't see too many school districts and chatter applicants seeing eye to eye on the process as well as the cost for the conversion. So we recommend that the task force become part of the consideration that the legislature that makes this coming year. We also are in the process looking at the differences in the start-up experiences of charters in their first year. The experience for many schools has been the opening, the approval and then actual work to get the school open has been very close to the opening day of school. In part, the State Department to their credit has begun to try to shorten the amount of time it takes to get start-up funds available to the local charter approvals. And so what we see this year as planning for this next round for applicants to be approved state wide which should make money available as close to April 1st as possible. So we're seeing in many application budgets a full-time position for a principal, for instance, for from July to June 30, '99 to 2000.
But we're also seeing one-quarter of 219 RESOLUTION #980766 principals from April 1st of '99 to June 30th of '99 to be involved in the planning process and successfully organize the very large number of details that are necessary to open a school and to go from nothing through a construction process through a program development, hiring all staff, developing policy or regulations that govern how we're going to take this vision and implement it, try to extend it from a month or two or three to at least five or six months prior to the opening school. I think we will guarantee more success and fewer starter problems in the first year if the State Department and local charter applicants that are approved work on that start-up funding earlier. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you very much. Certainly we will have one statement and then we will ask our last panel, Panel 4, to come forward. Mrs. Wiggins wants to make a statement. And if my colleagues don't mind, we will waive questions in the interest of time.
I just wanted to say, I know it came up earlier about Central, that Imhotep does have students from Central, we have students from Bensalem, from Cheltenham, from Darby who take 220 RESOLUTION #980766 public transportation. I have students from Sol and a couple of the 38 process schools, so I wanted to make sure -- I hear you talk about a lot our young people who are at risk that are applying for these charter schools. But I also have a lot of our academically talented young people from across this City applying for these charter schools, and it's not just at risk children. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you very much. Your point well noted. Thank you so much. Ms. Pat Halpin-Murphy, Director for Government Relations Philadelphia Federation of Teachers; Ms. Shelly Yanoff, Philadelphia Coalition for Children and Youth; Ken Campbell, Advantage Schools; Venard Johnson, Healthy Family Healthy Life; Dr. Walter Palmer, The Philadelphia Coalition for Education Reform and School Choice; Ms. Janet Dubinsky, Garden Court Community Association; and Mr. Eugene Bivens, N.A.A.C.P. We're glad to have all have all of you. And we will say to the next committee meeting that this is our last panel. Commissioner and all who are here, this is our last panel and we're glad you get a chance to hear what we do on 221 RESOLUTION #980766 the Education Committee, but we know this was not your plan. But we thank you for your patience. And certainly this last panel, I know many of you, I know Janet Dubinsky was here at 8:30 or 9:00 this morning. I know all of you have been around all day long, Ken from out of town, and just we thank you, thank you for your patience and we're sorry it's taken so long to get here, but we're grateful that you persevered. And as Councilwoman Clark says, you certainly developed a fore-record on what has happened here and what the issues are. Shelly, you want to begin?
Thank you, Councilwoman. Good afternoon, legislators and councilpersons. I want to thank you for having me here. I'm Shelly Yanoff, Executive Director of Philadelphia Coalition for Children and Youth. I want to thank you for having the hearing. It is critical that we establish a public record about what's going on in all of the schools in the City and in the charter movement as well. We believe the questions are important ones, and hearings such as this one will begin to answer whether charters can be major instruments of change and positive for the 222 RESOLUTION #980766 kids, not only that attend them, but throughout the system, or whether they're sort of boutiques on the education highway. In many ways charter schools can strengthen public schools because they can operate differently, reshape their practices to meet student and teaching needs, and implement different practices because kids must be and can be reached in a variety of ways. Since charter schools can throw off some of the system-wide constraints, they can show us by some of the results and practices what differences some changes can make under what circumstances. And that what was Representative Evans you were alluding to earlier, is a system in place to do that. It is hoped that the learning from some of the experiences can be brought then to the larger system. But charter schools also can hurt the public system by draining off needed resources by unfairly avoiding trying to educate the less able or fewer children with special needs by promising to provide quick fixes and by isolating some children. In order for charter schools to help in the critical task of educating the City's children, 223 RESOLUTION #980766 there must be educational, fiscal and governance accountability. You've heard today about educational accountability and about some fiscal questions. I want to skip down; the hour is late. I want to say that if we could do a couple of things in changing the charter law or practice, we probably could cut down tremendously on the adversarialness of the atmosphere. The main thing I think is if the State could create a separate pool for charter funds, then the public system will not feel that it is being jeopardized when one child from the 3rd grade in this school and two children from the 4th grade go because -- in fact, the Commissioner of Health is here, and her previous experience will tell you when you close one system, you don't seeing start seeing savings for a while. And so the system that you're seeing in one school, you can't start closing a classroom just because 5 kids or 10 kids have left. And so you've got a real loss with a public system this way, and that's been explored earlier today. So if the state could, number 1, create a separate pool of dollars for charter schools and then hold the school districts harmless for the first five years and then 224 RESOLUTION #980766 see how big is the pool, what has happened, what can we do, what is the results, then we would tremendously advance, I think, both the atmosphere and our ability to see what's going on. The second issue is that there's been a lot of discussion about transportation. And Councilwoman Blackwell, you co-authored a resolution 9 in the spring to deal with the fact that it costs Philadelphia school kids alone in the Commonwealth, we are the only ones that it costs kids who are in high school or who choose to go to a school not in their neighborhood, not who were sent because of special ed needs or deseg, but who choose. Those kids don't get bussed or free transportation. It costs them $9 had a week; $9 a week in a school district in which 80 percent of the kids are eligible for free or reduced lunch is a lot of money. So that when you see the argument and tension over transportation, it is a sense of unfairness that the public school kids feel and families feel because they're not having their children bussed in the same way or provided free tokens.
So if we could seriously deal with the high cost of SEPTA tokens for all of our kids, whether in 225 RESOLUTION #980766 private or public school, we would advance that wall a lot and, again, have more of a sense of equity then we've seen so far. Further, if we're not willing to create the pool of dollars -- Representative Evans, you and I have discussed this before. If we would then take the cap off of the State funding and start again having one shot, one reimbursement for each child in the school district that comes in, then the funds could more easily follow the child. But they can't follow the child if they don't start with the child, and they currently don't. At least that's my understanding of the current state formula. All in all, I think that charters can be a tremendous instrument for change if we monitor them, if we make sure that we give the governance issues the kinds of tools that are needed in order to make decisions, and we don't set up competition unfairly for funds in the earlier days particularly. So we would urge you to hold the systems, all of the school district -- and I was talking with people from Bucks and Allegheny last night about this. If we would hold the districts who are sending kids to charter schools harmless in their funding pattern 226 RESOLUTION #980766 for a period of five years, then we could assess and then we might see what works and what doesn't and we would have severely cut down on the animosity or adversarialness of the system. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. Ms. Pat Halpin-Murphy, Director of Government Relations Philadelphia Federation of Teachers.
Thank you, Chairwoman Blackwell. Thank you for inviting us here today. I'd like to thank also Councilman Cohen, Representative Dwight Evans and Representative Mike Horsey Michael. I'm here today for the Pennsylvania Federation of Teachers, and I do bring greetings from Ted Kirsch and Jerry Jordan from the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers. Also, my colleague Janet Rider from the Pennsylvania Federation of Teachers is her, or at least she was earlier, and I'd like to recognize her as well. Pennsylvania is now in its second school year for charter school operations. It may be early to reflect on the specific record of charter schools established in the fall of 1997. And it is 227 RESOLUTION #980766 certainly, in my opinion, too early for those charters opening in the fall of 1988 to look at them in any specific way. However, I think it's an excellent time to look at the impact of charters on the public school system and its children, and I'd like to make two points in that regard. First is that charter schools cost the school district over $12 million a year. And of course, we support the funding of the charter schools. That's the law; that's what needs to happen. However, currently, this money is taken away from the instructional program for children in the regular school system in order to be given to the charter public schools. And we do of course recognize the charter schools are public schools. And an I agree with many of councilmen and representatives who was making that point today. I don't think that that in general is understood by the public at large that the charter schools are public schools. But this $12 million is lost to the regular public school students. Also this $12 million expenditure nearly wipes out the total of City Council special $15 million appropriation for the school district. Each year recently the 228 RESOLUTION #980766 council has appropriate had special amount of money for the school district, and as it turns out, the amount of money lost in funding the charter schools almost wipes out that appropriation. The state does not fund the cost of the charter schools, with a small exception and that is for those children who are transferring from private or parochial schools into charter school, and there's a small pot of money to reimburse the school district for that additional cost. But the State does not fund the charter schools. And actually, Shelly Yanoff and I did not coordinate our testimony, but we did come up it seems with a somewhat similar idea. And that is for the State of some responsibility for this funding. Many of you may know three weeks ago right before the legislature adjourned for the session, there was a voucher bill circulated in the Senate caucus and in a few other places. In that proposed voucher school bill, there was language that would have held the local school districts harmless had a voucher proposal passed. It's unfortunate that the charter school bill did not contain a similar provision. I don't think it's too 229 RESOLUTION #980766 late, but it did not that contain that provision. So you have an unfortunate situation -- and it isn't just the Philadelphia School District, by the way. It's all of the school districts. You've probably read about Neshaminy and, I think, Bensalem, they were not aware that a particular charter school was opening in their area, didn't budget for it and they had to appropriate money that left their budget completely out of whack for this school year. And I would suggest to you that when you're reviewing what happened today, that you consider if there is some way to hold the school district harmless for the very appropriate costs of funding the charter school system. The state does not make that provision.
Is it then your suggestion there needs to be a separate line item at the Harrisburg level for charter schools so as to not reduce the grant for the Philadelphia Public Schools?
That would be one way to handle it, a separate line item. 230 RESOLUTION #980766
Yes, that would be one very, I think, expeditious way of handling it.
Perhaps Representative Evans might be in a better position and more knowledgeable about that than I would be. But I certainly would make that recommendation, and we would certainly support that kind of effort.
Ms. Halpin, what answer do you give to the suggestion made by many people that since the charter schools came into existence, the public school system is educating less children and that the funds are allocated fairly according to the formula that was presented to us previously by the school district?
Perhaps I'm not the most appropriate person to comment on that, Councilman Cohen. But my understand is that the 231 RESOLUTION #980766 funds are allocated to the charter public schools on the basis that was provided for in the charter school legislation. And many of the concerns that both the district and the charter schools have really are in areas that are outside the law. I think probably both groups agree that if you look at the specifics provided for in the statute, the State requires the local school district all across the state to fund their local charters in a very specific way, and my understanding is that Philadelphia as well as the other districts are in fact doing that.
The second point that I would like to make in this regard is that starting in 1999 a state appointed board will be able to approve the creation of new charter schools that a local school district has disapproved. The school district here in Philadelphia will no longer control what charters operate in Philadelphia, nor will any local school district have final say on what charters operate in their district. This has enormous quality and cost implications. Those charter schools that have been approved so far both 232 RESOLUTION #980766 here in Philadelphia and other areas around the state, have genuinely been community initiated schools that have grown from local needs and from local people. Once you move away from that, you are opening the possibility of others instituting charter schools in the district, and neither Philadelphia School District nor the Philadelphia City Council will have any say about that. You may in fact think that a particular charter school application is not worthy either because of the quality of their management or for whatever reason when they seek approval, and the local district may say, no, it doesn't meet the criteria. But that decision can be overturned. I'd also like to make note that the charter schools that have been approved so far have in fact be genuine non-profit organizations in Philadelphia. We're beginning to see for-profit companies operating charter schools. Now, the law says that the governing body must be non-profit, and in fact, the letter of the law last been met, but we're increasingly seeing both here in Pennsylvania and in other areas throughout the State, for-profit change quite frankly looking to start charter 233 RESOLUTION #980766 schools in a much wider basis. And I think we've seen that in the Philadelphia area as well. Mosaica, which is a for-profit company opened a charter school in Bucks County. In fact, many Philadelphia children are going to it. And recently Mosaica announced that they're going to be opening I believe three additional charter schools in the suburban right near Philadelphia but right outside our boarders. And starting in 1999, the local school district is going to have really has no say over. There will be another board can approve them.
Excuse me. If you can't do it directly, how then does the State look the other way and permit it to be done indirectly? If it can't be a for-profit and run a charter school, it is a legal fiction to have a non-profit run the school and then sub out the actual operation of the school to a for-profit. I mean, we're certainly capable of seeing -- that's not even opaque, that's just clear.
I can't disagree with you, Councilwoman Clark. But that in fact is what is allowed under current law and is beginning to happen. And I would suggest to you that it's 234 RESOLUTION #980766 probably going to happen on an increasing level.
So Goddard and all of the proprietary schools will start to mine this rich load of ore.
I think that's something we definitely have to consider as a possibility, and I think the ability of a non-local board making that decision increases the possibility. So this is two general points I'd like to make. Additionally, we know that this committee the council persons and the state representatives are concerned that Philadelphia children receive the best education possible, whether those children are in regular public schools or charter public schools. With this in mind, however, we ask you the following -- and this is in no way a comment on any existing charter school and certainly is not a comment on any charter schools we heard about today. These are overall concerns that we have that we'd like to alert you to. And we'd like to ask that you insist charter schools be staffed by certified teachers. And I was delighted to here from Dr. Thuy and others that there are 235 RESOLUTION #980766 schools using certified teachers. We believe that all professional staff must be appropriately certified. Currently only 75 percent are required properly certified in the charter schools. We believe that is a defect in the law and we think it's going to come back to haunt us, our children, and the charter schools. Secondly, we ask that you insist that no 10 charter school discriminate on the basis of religion, race, culture, economic status, or any other unique feature. Again, I want to emphasis this is no comment on any of the existing charter schools, but this is a concern that we have seen because of developments in other areas of the country and we're concerned about that. Also be particularly vigilant that no charter school screen out children with disability. Charter schools are public schools and must not be allowed to discriminate. We also ask that you insist that charter schools be institutions designed to generate financial profit for investors. One for-profit company is already operating in Bucks County and enrolling Philadelphia students. We think that is just the beginning. 236 RESOLUTION #980766 And my last point is that we've heard testimony and we know from our own experience that there are a number of children who have great difficulty in public schools, particularly the older children, and have a great difficulty functioning in current regular public school system, and alternative schools have grown up both within the public schools and outside. In fact, one of the original charter schools, Community Academy, was one such school. And we think that for those students who -- particularly we have students that come back from incarceration situations and we think maybe charter schools might be an appropriate aspect for those particular students. The Pennsylvania Federation of Teachers and the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers stand ready to work with you as you evaluate the impact of charter schools on Philadelphia school system and school children, and we that you very much for holding this hearing. Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you so much. Thank you.
Madam Chair? CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Councilman 237 RESOLUTION #980766 Cohen, a question for the PFT?
Throughout the discussions, I noticed an underlying criticism, not only of the school district, but of the unions that represent these school district employees. And I'm wondering, I'm hoping that somehow or other the charter schools do not become a vehicle for anti-union activity, and I'm also hoping that the school unions are concerned about the criticisms they've heard so that maybe at some point we can come together so that the labor organizations are not viewed as impediments, I think that was the word that was continually used, as impediments to the fully effective teaching of students, particularly students that don't seem to be learning as we would hope they would in the public school system. But I would like to see the day when we don't have demarcation around union represented schools and non-union represented schools. I just think it's an area that everybody's got to pay a lot of attention to. I cannot accept the notion that have unions 238 RESOLUTION #980766 which exist to protect the people that perform the services can in anyway been detrimental. And I just think it's a subject that all public service unions have to consider. And I'm hoping that in whatever fashion unions work that they consider that. One other question to ask. There were also questions raised about organization and the ability to organize. I believe I understood that there's no impediment to union organization to charter schools, is there?
The law specifically provides that charter schools may be organized under Pennsylvania's Act 195, Collective Bargaining Law. The restriction is that they may not belong to the same collective bargaining unit, U-N-I-T. I spell that because people sometimes thing I'm say "union." They can belong to the same union but not the same what they collective bargaining unit. So that is provided for under the charter school law.
I'm just not clear. They may not be in the same bargaining unit as what?
As the employees in the regular public schools. A way to compare it might be with the way AFSCME is organized who works 239 RESOLUTION #980766 for the City of Philadelphia. Each of the different bargaining units, like the water employees are in one unit, the trash collectors are in another unit, the social workers may be in another unit, but they can all belong to the same union.
Except that in the examples you cite, people are perform being different duties. I would understand that teachers in the charter public schools are performing the same function as teachers in the traditional public schools.
As Councilwoman Clark says, and I think I have to accept it, it seems like an artificial distinction. But that's the law, you said.
Yes, I think it's very artificial. And we proposed in the law that the charter school employees be allowed to organize in any way that they see fit just as any other public workers are entitled to, but we did not carry that argument.
Your suggestion makes 240 RESOLUTION #980766 an awful lot of sense. Thank you.
Pat, one of the things that organized labor needs to do is insinuate itself into this dialog because its silence is being construed as opposition.
I understand that. But this just can't be "an" episode. There has to be a continuing dialog with unions actively involved in it or else you will be seen as the impediment; and if you don't speak up, it will be on your own head that you haven't taken the opportunity to help structure a position that everybody can live with. And I do think unions have been very, very silent with respect to this.
Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. Representative Mike Horsey. REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: Just one or two questions real quick. So a person who goes from the Philadelphia School District and works for a charter school, he gives up his or her union membership? How does that work? 241 RESOLUTION #980766
Yes. I taught in the Philadelphia Public Schools. If I was still teaching at Simon Gratz and left to teach at one of the charter schools, I would terminate my employment status with the Philadelphia Public School and I would become an employee of that charter school. And that charter school would be able to set the terms of my compensation and working conditions with the exception that the law does provide that they have to provide health benefits and that I would still stay in the state retirement system. But other than that, you're not under the protections of the PFT contract. REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: I don't know if this is an appropriate question or not. Has your encouraged members of charter schools to join or come or become or to be unionized?
We are very open to the employees of charter schools becoming organized. REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: Has your union encouraged such organization?
There are conversations going on as we sit here, Representative Horsey, and I would be happy to talk 242 RESOLUTION #980766 with you appropriately about that where I would not be perhaps getting into an area that is, you know, a private situation. Not private to me, but private to the employees and the school involved. REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: I understand. Just one last question. What is the total number of teachers who work in the City of Philadelphia, just teachers?
Approximately 12,000. REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: And what is the total number of paraprofessionals?
Well, there's approximately 26,000 employees in the school district. Approximately 12,000 of those are teachers. The others are paraprofessionals, non-teaching assistants, other -- REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: So the general percentage rate is 50/50, a little less than 50/50 teachers, so on and so forth.
Right. Something slightly under a majority are teachers. 243 RESOLUTION #980766 REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: Thank you. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you. I think we can continue this discussion. We were talking to Representative Evans about folks who start all over when they have benefits, and he was talking about people being a sabbatical. So I guess at some point in our growing pains we'll have to deal with that as an issue. And I've been approached by many charter schools about them trying to have people from their other schools work with them and work with them part-time, which we're told they have been told they can't do. That's another issue that seems to be a real problem and kind of a punishment. And when I asked the School District about it, they said it was the City's fault somehow.
I don't know what the status is on sabbaticals. Sabbaticals are provided for state law, not by local district arrangement. And I'm sorry, but I've never really thought through that issue or looked into it. If the charter school employees are public school employees, then conceivably they would be covered by the sabbatical arrangement. But I can't speak authoritatively on that until I look it up, but I'd 244 RESOLUTION #980766 be happy to do that. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: At some point we really would like that issue resolved. I've had many, many charter school operators complain about people that worked with in their other jobs before they came not being able to work with them at night or on weekends or run some program, another sports program and that sort of thing because of city law.
It's not city law. That I do know definitively. In terms of sabbaticals or working for two different school districts, it's not a city issue. Now, there may be, if they work City Recreation Department, there may be city ordinances that cover that. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: I mean people who work in other schools. A lot charter leaders came out of the public school system. They, of course, have relationships with people in their old schools, their former schools. And they are told that those former employees, as long as they work for the same school district, they cannot in fact work with them part-time or on weekends or at night.
That's the law governing sabbaticals, which says that if you 245 RESOLUTION #980766 accept --
Yes, if you're on sabbatical you cannot then accept paid employment. I believe that's how that is written.
But if you want to work in a volunteer status or if -- a person that's dead on the horns of the dilemma, they have to decide whether they want to stay in sabbatical status or whether they want to be employed. But you can not have the benefits of both because they collide in the law on sabbaticals. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Councilman Cohen.
Just one question. In the charter schools, they get paid by check.
What's on the check? Does it Philadelphia School District or does it say the name of the charter school? 246 RESOLUTION #980766
I would perhaps would ask that someone from a charter school would be a better position to respond to respond to you, Councilman Cohen.
I think you're right. Is there anybody here from the charter schools that would know the answer? Before you answer, does it apply also to the Mosaica School?
Well, one of the benefits of a charter school is that you can do your own contracting. And so therefore, any employee of mine will get a Harambee Institute of Science and Technology check. Just to clear up the other statement that was made, I was formerly a teacher in West Philadelphia High School, but I was also a teacher of their evening school, their teacher preparation program, their in-service program which I taught in the evenings. Once I got my charter, I was told that if I worked for a charter school, I could not in any way work for the public school on my own time, during the summertime or any other time. So it goes both ways. Also, those teachers who are 247 RESOLUTION #980766 working in the public schools that may want to work after school with my school have been prohibited from doing that.
And what is the reason for that? REPRESENTATIVE HORSEY: Is that in the charter school legislation?
Once again, when Philadelphia is unique, Philadelphia is unique to other districts around. I had never heard anywhere across the state that you cannot work after your employment for a charter school or vice versa. That's the rule.
John knows I've told him he can work anytime he wants to, as long as he doesn't want to get paid. There's a provision of the Philadelphia charter, the home rule charter against dual employment. It says if your employee is getting part of his salary out of the City budget cannot go over work for the State or for the school district or anyone else. You can't double dip. There's a provision in the charter against double dipping if your salary is paid for out of the city treasury. So I've told John, sometimes we have 248 RESOLUTION #980766 summer institutes that are being paid for totally out of grant funds. The not money's come from the City. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: But if it's all the school district, how are you double dipping when everybody works for the school district? Excuse me, I'm sorry. We should identify you for the record.
They do not work for the school district, they work for the charter schools. They are not working for the School District of Philadelphia. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: This is one in and out questions. On one thing that seems to the advantage of the board it seems they are out, and on other instances they're in. This is the in and out whole nature of all of this business that creates problems.
Part of the things we're talking about here are some ways that the laws are inconsistent and need to be changed, and this is one of the things we're bringing up. This is one of those instances. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKMAN: Thank you. That 249 RESOLUTION #980766 was Jackie Sparkman and Clay Armbrister from the school district for our stenographer. They are listed under Panel 2 of your listing. Janet Dubinsky. Thank you for patience to all of you.
That's all right, Councilwoman. I'm very happy and pleased to be here. I don't come as a member of the professional education community. I come as a representative of a 50-year-old community organization, Garden Court Community Organization, of which I am currently proud to be the vice president and education chair. We're in Councilwoman Blackwell's district, and I believe part of our district is also in Representative Horsey's area, including the school I've been working most closely with which is a K through 8 school, the Henry C. Lee School, which I'm sure he knows quite well. I came to this as a novice on charter schools, and I did a lot of homework to play catch-up. I've taken a great deal of interest. I spend much time every week over at Lee working with the parents, working with teachers, working with various projects questioning the administration, 250 RESOLUTION #980766 questioning the students, which is led me into the exploration when I was asked to testify about charter schools. We have a lot of problems in the school system that until you actually set foot in the schools on a daily basis are not necessarily apparent to everyone. I'm going to try to bring my focus around where we started. Do we need charter schools? Quite probably, we do. They are here whether we like it or not. They're in states. 12 They're in the State of Pennsylvania, they're in the 13 District of Columbia. This is something that we 14 have to deal with. Some people may like them; some 15 people may not. Many people in the general 16 community even among so-called, quote, educated 17 segments of the community have to be made to 18 understand that, A, they are not voucher schools; 19 people don't understand that, that they are part of 20 the public school system. And there seems to be a 21 lot of confusion about that here today. 22 We found that in Lee School this is 23 certainly one area among those of us who work with 24 the parents and the teachers could be something that 25 could be explored. I wouldn't have necessarily 251 RESOLUTION #980766 thought that a couple months ago until I did some charter homework with getting some information from your colleague Representative Robuck's office. And doing my homework, I did not realize, for instance, that a charter school could be set up as a sub-set of an already existing public school. This is something that would help deal with among other things probably both gifted and behavioral problem children depending upon which end you wanted to approach it. I think that I'm not going to make a big long statement among all of you who are far more versed in educational matters than I am except to say that this is something that needs to and must be further explored to afford all the children in this school district the best education that we can give them, and I don't see that that's necessarily happening as things stand at moment. So we can't around to turn down any explosion that we can achieve to further and better the education of our children whether they be K through 8 or across the street at West Philly High 9 through 12. These kids need all the help that we can give them. I myself don't have any children in 252 RESOLUTION #980766 school district. I am a product of the Philadelphia public schools, K through 12. And I am a tax-paying home-owning citizen in this City. And my interest isn't personal; I don't have a personal ax to grind, I don't work for the school district. I try and work for our community in general and try to bring the best I can to it, and that's what I'd like us all to try and do for our kids. If this means further explosion by all of us and a little accommodation on each side for possibility of charter schools, I think it's something we need strongly to consider. And therefore, I personally support this resolution that we continue to explore it. And basically that's what we're here about, to see -- to bring it to it's most basic terms, should we go forward, should we go backward?
We're approaching a new millennium. Things aren't the same as they were when I was in school. My suggestion is that we go forward. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you, Ms. Dubinsky and thanks for all the volunteer work you do at Lee School. Ken Campbell, Advantage Schools.
Good morning. I am 253 RESOLUTION #980766 Ken Campbell from Advantage Schools. And I'll start out by saying I am actually proud to be from one of the companies that a lot of people like to talk pretty negative about right now, which one of the for-profit companies operating schools around the country. We operate exclusively in urban areas where kids, we believe, need it most. I'm going to talk to you today not really about Advantage Schools because that's something I do now and I haven't done that long. C. I'm a big supporter of public charter schools, and I'm big supporter because we need to talk about and find innovative solutions to help kids. There's been a lot of talk about money today. But you know what? Kids are out there struggling, and I'm not ashamed to say in most cases those are kids of color. Those are kids of color who are stuck in communities where they don't have options and who are stuck in schools where they don't have options. So we can talk a lot about where the dollars go and that sort of thing but there were a 254 RESOLUTION #980766 whole group of parents back here in the back of the room that send kids to some of these schools and right now they feel like that's the only lifeline they have to make sure their kids are able to get a quality education. So let's kind of put it in right context if we're going to talk about charter schools and what it is they're designed to do and that's to help kids. We've had a lot of talk about where the money goes, does the school district -- are they treated unfairly because dollars flow with the kids. I haven't heard a lot of talk today from the school district about what they're doing to retain some of those kids. They have, in my opinion, a monopoly right now. And I can guarantee you right now, Microsoft is not allowing AOL and all these other places to just step into their market and take their customers without a fight. Microsoft each day is becoming more and more innovative to keep people attached to and working with Microsoft. People don't want to leave because they provide a quality product. And so I really think what we should focus on and what I would like to hear the school system say is, "this is what we're doing in response to. " And I think with a little more innovation and a little mor creativity, they can negate of the some of the pull that charter schools have right now pulling students away from the public schools. And I guess all the creativity right now is just in the charter schools, and I think that has to change. I would like to see much more cordial working relationships between the school system and charter schools. I think it's a natural. I think there are a lot of things they can learn, not just how well students perform, but how do you pay teachers. All charter schools don't pay teachers the same way. All charter schools don't evaluate teachers the same way. Not all charter schools use the same curriculum or the same teaching methods. How the school is the school structured? How much power do the teachers have? How much power do the parents have? Why are charter schools getting 95 percent attendance with kids who have dropped out of traditional public schools. All those are the types of things that I believe the public school system should be studying and not simply waiting for the Stanford 9 to come out to see how well the students 256 RESOLUTION #980766 have done at the end of year. I think there are ongoing lessons. Each charter school is very different. It's impossible to lump them all together and say charter schools did X or charter schools did Y. A charter school is simply a vehicle, and a group of people have gotten together and done a whole lot of work to put a proposal together that they think is going to be effective with kids. And some of those are going to work, and quite honestly, some of those are not going to work.
But right now in our public system, a lot of schools aren't working, but nobody's really looking at them to figure out are they working; and if not, why not? So I think we need to do some of those things. I think there are a lot of impediments right now to charter schools for them getting up, open and operating on time and starting on time the way they're supposed to be. I hope the City can do some things about that. " So that when it's time, you 257 RESOLUTION #980766 know. " All those sorts of things are just obstacles that are kind of in the way of these schools and it's a very sharp learning curve that they have to go up in order to be able to operate effectively. So I would hope that the City can help, you know, to bridge some of those gaps tort schools. And another thing I think is very important is finding a way to just provide general for. I was listening to one of the charter operators talk about some of the problems she had, but my question would be how many people in the City or the school system picked up the phone and said, "hey, I hear that you're having some problems. " These are all kids, kids who in most cases don't have any other options. " And that bothers me, it just bothers me. Finally, I think another way the school system can really help is just to provide more -- they can actually provide fee-based services to schools. There's some expertise that you have in the public school systems that charter schools don't yet have that can really make for a win win situation for both. One good example would be employee background checks. All schools have to do them. Why not pay the public school system do them for you when they're doing them for everybody else? What about athletics. There are any number of ways. Charter schools aren't looking for a free ride. They are looking for some equity and they are looking for some help in ways to make this whole thing work for them. I have a prepared statement. I think you all have a copy of it. I just totally blew that away just interest of time. But I just wanted to kind of give some general thoughts and comments after the conversations that I heard today. I mean, I really want to see public schools, traditional public schools rise to the challenge. I want them 259 RESOLUTION #980766 to do more innovative things. I want them to increase the amount of programs that are available. " And if you haven't seen a charter school application, I don't know if anybody has one with them, by the time you get finish it's about that big. That's for a single school to operate because think they can do a good job with kids. I would encourage every public school to have to do the same job, even half, you know. Even half, I think would be a big plus. And Madam Chairman, thank you for inviting me. It's been interesting day. I've actually enjoyed it quite a bit. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you for coming. We know you come from out of town, that you come Washington and also Boston. We appreciate you coming in and being so patient with us all day. Councilwoman Clark is twisting my arm, but it's the only question. We have three people, Mr. Bivens and Dr. Walt Palmer, and Vernard Johnson in order that they choose, and we are done. I promise. 260 RESOLUTION #980766
Mr. Campbell, I thank you for your comments, and I wish we had more time because I am one who has a very strong skepticism about proprietary schools. And nothing that I've heard from you today has done anything to dissipate my skepticism and I can't do it on the record. Maybe you and I will stand out in the hall and have a go at it. Still, all of us have the same shared hope that young people will be educated to a level that permits them to function as adults, either in advanced education or directly into the world of work. But quite frankly, in Philadelphia it is all a hope because we don't have enough experience to go on. We now must look at the components of these systems and guess at whether we have enough of the right things to make it work. And I have devoted this day, not looking for ways to kill it, looking for ways to support it. And I listened creatively to see whether there are things that I in my 12 years of chairing the Education Committee and almost 20 years here can contribute. Public education is not perfect. But it and labor unions made the middle class. And when public education was as new as charter schools, they had a 261 RESOLUTION #980766 100 percent attendance rate. So let's not brag about our attendance rate until the newness has warn off and people are then starting to exercise that natural apathy when the newness is gone. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Gentlemen, in any order.
My name is Vernard Johnson. , and I'm the parent of a 7th grader at the World Communications Charter School. I had a daughter who graduated from Philadelphia Public Schools, and by her report card, was a good student and decided that she wanted to be a nurse and went to community college, and we paid a year for remediation. We wanted to pay for her education as best we could. That's why as a family we chose community college because it was something that we could do for our daughter in terms of paying for her education and not having to have her pay a grant or a loan back. And the year that we had to pay for remediation was really a surprise to us because she was a good student. Next year she's going to go to Westchester and we won't be able to pay for that, but she won't have so much to pay 262 RESOLUTION #980766 back. I wanted to say that because we've been supporters of Philadelphia Public Schools. But you can't sacrifice your own and then sacrifice another one and get the same results. So in 4th grade, the elementary school that my 7th grader who is now in 7th grade was in was having some serious discipline problems, and my fourth grader began to complain to us about it, and we took her out in the middle of year and sent her to a private school and paid tuition for two years. And this year we decided that when we had an opportunity to apply to the charter school that Dr. Ryder operates, we did so. And she's a happy kid right now. She's happy because she's around a bunch of kids who are happy being in that school. And they believe they're learning. I asked her why she's so happy. " She didn't actually think she was learning in the private school that we sent her to, so it's not that you always get what you give your dollars for. I wanted to make that point. On the other side of this, my company has a focus on public health. And we focus a lot of children and children's health and children's safety. And for six years or so we were active in 263 RESOLUTION #980766 the traditional Philadelphia Public Schools where we called in the question in front of this Council and other places their concern about the children's health and safety to the point that one nurse, at least when we were active in the traditional public school was responsible for 1500 students' health care. And we're now working -- and had no 9 intentions of changing. We were disappointed that we don't believe that the traditional public schools have a very good plan for emergencies and disasters, not just fires, but emergencies and disasters. And it's like beating your head against a brick to get them to understand what you're talking about. So at some point you want to move on. So we've moved on and are more involved in charter schools in Philadelphia and in Chester, and they seem to have a willingness, this kind of open-arm kind of approach where they're willing to at least sit and listen and to invite others in who can help them develop health and safety plans and curriculum that can help -- I think the biggest part in I'm saying is to help develop curriculum that it may not always be a licensed teacher, a licensed professional who bring to you what you need. Certainly the firemen may not 264 RESOLUTION #980766 be a licensed profession. But he certainly can come into a school environment and talk to children and talk to teachers and other staff about the health and safety of a school and what needs to happen and help build that into the curriculum. That's what I'm seeing at least in charter schools here in Philadelphia at this point. We're involved right at this moment with a construction company.
I don't think they mind me saying their name, Barkley White Construction Company, where the president of that company and partner have been meeting with Dry Ryder and his staff in the World Communications Charter School to look at developing a constructions trade curriculum, something that I think is sorely needed, not just for the children in this town, but for the adults as well so that we can study the construction trades and industry that we've been locked out of. Our children could study that at an earlier age and qualify for apprenticeships in the trades when they become seniors or Grade 13. That's something that we had a hard time working with the traditional public schools in introducing those kinds of programs. 265 RESOLUTION #980766 I just want to tell you about the connection between the charter school and the community. This lady over here from Garden Court was talking about that. I think that there's a spirit that exist, I don't know that it's a new spirit. I think people just been waiting for an opportunity. There's spirit that exists between charter schools and communities that I don't believe exists in a traditional public school, at least for us. And I want to give you a couple examples of some things that we're doing in the Worlds Communications Charter School and then get out of here to go meet 30 of our health club students who meet every Tuesday at 2:30. We'd invite you to come and see what we're doing with them at the school at Broad and South. There is a critical need in southwest Philadelphia for better services from retailers who sell food. And a lot of the stores in our community sell food especially dairy products that are expired. The dates have expired. I'm glad to see the health commissioner in the room so she can hear what we're saying on this piece. A lot of mothers who are entitled to WIC commodities shop in these 266 RESOLUTION #980766 stores where the items are a day or two away from expiring if they haven't already passed the expiration point. We're working with students both in Chester and at the World Communications Charter School here and in what we call an action research project. That project involves them going out into the Kingsessing Paschall community in southwest and researching what stores exist in the community, what they sell, and looking at the expiration dates of the products that they sell, especially the milk. And we're going to release a report soon about what we have found. On Friday this week we're going to Washington with students from the World 16 Communications Charter School here and 20 students 17 from charter school in Chester to meet with former 18 Mayor Goode who is with the Department of Education 19 and the Secretary of Education as well as some 20 people from the Department of Agriculture to discuss a couple of things. One is America Reads. Our students are going to get involved with the America Reads program. They are going to kind of cross what they do with American Reads and connect that to a good solid nutrition program. And we're hoping that 267 RESOLUTION #980766 the Department of Education and the Department of Agriculture will work with our kids here in Philadelphia and in Chester to support their efforts to open and operate a food cooperative in southwest Philadelphia, one where we will have fresh fruits and produce available for sale but we're also going to explore what it takes to sell WIC commodities. And the students are also working with people of Haitian decent and Asian decent and helping them to write down what their concerns are about the foods that are available through the WIC program. Now, a lot of folks may say "well, what does that all have to do with anything," but it's addressing a major issue that exists in our community and the charter schools both charter schools, both charter schools, the one here and the one in Chester, were open to working with us on that effort and having their kids do the research project.
And I just use that as a basis to say that I think there's a good opportunity for the traditional public schools to look at what charter schools are doing in a short period of time to develop relationships in the community. I'll close with this, these two points. 268 RESOLUTION #980766 I've been to about four parents meetings this year at the World Communications Charter School that has 450 students. There haven't been less than 200 parents at any one of those meetings. For me, that is a change. The first meeting that I attended was at the Board of Education the auditorium right down the hall from Superintendent Hornbeck's office where there were about 400 parents who signed the sign-in sheet. I think that's a change. It shows something. The other point I want to make is this: This guy other over here was saying about the dollars, we talk about dollars today and we talked very little about curriculum, what's being offered, what kids are learning. I don't hear any squawking when a kid goes on office role and the school continues to get the money but the kids out in the street. I don't see anyone going after him or her. All I see is a district that let's the kid stay in the street, be on office role, and gets the dollars. I think my oldest daughter was a good student and a good person. I think my 7th grader is a good student and good person. I think that my wife is good person. I think I'm a good person. We're 269 RESOLUTION #980766 active in our kids' education. We're active in the community. When we left the district, there was no 4 effort at all to ask us why or if we wanted to come back what conditions we wanted to come back under. It was like, "bye, see you later," and the only thing that they're concerned about now is the dollars that really belong to my child and my family that could be used to support us to make sure that she gets a quality education. I heard a concern about not discriminating against the disabled. But at the same time I heard that maybe charter schools would be a great place for those returning from incarceration. If that's not discrimination, I don't know what it is. And, you know, I'm not much on profit organizations doing what I consider to be public and private sector work, but we've allowed Tenent to come into this town and to provide health care for folks without really understanding what they're going doing and who they're going to serve when the times get hard. So I'm willing to work with anyone who is willing to work and has demonstrated that they're willing to work with our kids for the 270 RESOLUTION #980766 betterment of the kids and for the communities that we live in. And I'll close with this: The construction people that we're working with are concerned that the school district isn't producing the kind of student to be the kind of employee that they want. And I think if we have an opportunity to mix the professional world with our kids and their education in schools, I think we should take the opportunity to do it. And if the traditional schools have shut down their wood shops and their metal shops and their autobody shops, if there's an opportunity to bring an Ike Tillman from Ledlow Autobody into a school that wants to put a focus on that trade and Ike doesn't have a teaching certificate, I think we need to find a way to get the Ike Tillmans of the world into the classroom. So I would caution you about listening to the rhetoric around, make 100 percent of the professional staff teachers because you see what we've got right now with 100 percent of the professional staff being teachers. We've got a state representative who's concerned about a school in his area. We've high school in South Philly that 271 RESOLUTION #980766 they say is producing well and is questionable if those statistics are real. We've got the School of Science and Engineering on the disabled list based on the schools own evaluation plan, it needs special attention.
And the old head around the teachers are not teaching our kids because they maybe come from a different ethnic background has kind of raised its head again. So that's what I wanted to say. Thank you for letting me be here. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you very much. Thank you Vernard. Dr. Walt Palmer. Thank you, all of you for your patience.
Only councilwoman Jannie Blackwell could get me to come early and say late. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: But I've done this to all of you before. But I promise next time you will be first. Vernard, Walt, Dr. Bivens, I'm telling you, they're always last, but I promise next time, and I say that on the record.
First of all, I want to thank you, Councilwoman Blackwell, for inviting me here. My name is Walt Palmer. I am director of the 272 RESOLUTION #980766 Palmer Foundation which is a research training institute on social justice and social action which I've run for over 40 years. I'm also here representing the Philadelphia Coalition for Education Reform and School Choice and the African-American Grassroots Coalition for School Choice. I also recognize State Representative, my dear friend, Dwight Evans, and State Representative Mike Horsey as well. I'm want to say up front that the notion of charter schools is not a new notion. Today we heard a lot of people talk about charter schools and talking about it as if it somehow just came out of the blue. Charter schools have been for years, or the concept, the model of charter schools have for years been alternatives to education which was absent in various communities. Historically in American society if it were not for alternative schools many African slaves would never have been educated. If it not for Christian decent people white and black setting up alternative ways to educate the slaves, they would never have gotten educated. Poor white indentureds of Europe and America would have never gotten educated had there 273 RESOLUTION #980766 not been models of charter schools, schools operating without a charter both in pre-colonial and post-colonial period. The idea that charters are new also disturbs me because clearly in the 1900s when the great migration of blacks from out the southlands to the north when they were meeting hostility northern whites, they too had to find alternative ways of education. African-Americans were late to get into education in elementary, secondary, junior high schools, and colleges in American society. We need to constantly remember that. You talk about charter schools and alternatives, you talk about choices. Everybody in America has choices, particularly the middle class. Today I'm here to talk about black and poor because the truth of the matter of the 217,000 students, over 75 percent are African-American and/or Hispanic. Of the numbers you talk about 50 percent to 60 percent or more dropping out before they finish high school, we're talking about largely African-Americans and Hispanics whose numbers drop out faster than African-Americans. In American society we have gone through almost several hundred 274 RESOLUTION #980766 years of white skin approach and black skin disadvantage, which clearly is phenomenal which suggest the social hierarchy maintained a status of whites different than that have blacks. The truth is that unless we look towards alternative ways born within the community many times outside of the structures for finding ways to deal with these social conditions, there is no answer. I'm an educator. I've been an educator all my life. When I graduated from high school in the 1950s, I set up my own school, the Black Peoples University of Philadelphia at 329 South 52nd Street, and ran it for 30 years. And it was there that John Skief learned about alternative education and reform. It was there that Dr. Ed Robinson was able to hone his skills in helping to train people in the community. It was there that young David Richardson, the former state representative, learned his skills. And the list can go on and on of people in Philadelphia who took advantage of alternative education when it was not popular in the 1950s and '60s. In the 1950s cents and '60s after I had acquired a degree in education and had already 275 RESOLUTION #980766 passed certification for teaching both in day and evening schools, while I was still teaching in my own school for 30 years, I helped to organize and lead a demonstration for reform in the City of Philadelphia against the Board of Education.
On November 17, 1967, through the help of and the call of young African-American students in the junior high schools and high schools, we orchestrated a call for a shut-down of the public schools of Philadelphia for educational reform. Over a hundred thousand children marched out of the schools and a significant number marched on the Board of Education, but we had already trained some or 30 15 students representatives on how to negotiate with 16 former Mayor Richardson Dilwort and Superintendent 17 Mark Shea and were successful in negotiating for 18 reforms like a student Bill of Rights, like a dress 19 code, like being able to have their representation 20 inside the history books. America American was not 21 a reality before 1967 in the public schools of 22 Philadelphia. 23 The public schools of Philadelphia has 24 been good for a lot of people. And I believe in 25 public education and I support public education, 276 RESOLUTION #980766 particularly good public schools. But I take the same stance that former secretary of education Bill 4 Bennett takes, be damned public education if it's destroying our children, shut it all down and start all over again. Radical approach. Certainly our state legislators and our City Council people are never that radical, and we don't expect that. But clearly they've got hear the moaning and crying of the new, the neo-slave, young black men and women and young African-American poor and young Hispanic poor and poor whites who are trapped in a system. The problem is not just more money to solve it, because we're talking about a problem which is structural, a problem indeming, a problem that is institutionalized, a problem that has cultural pressure, imposing cultural values on children who can't rise to meet the same demands we put on them. Charter schools were a natural outcome. Teachers unions were not in favor of charter schools in early days. I helped five years ago to help legislation which went into the State of Pennsylvania, and I personally lobbied and fought to try to get people like State Representative Evans and State Representative Mike Horsey and others in 277 RESOLUTION #980766 the black caucus to take the leadership in education reform in the City of Philadelphia because what's good young black African-Americans and young Hispanics is good for young whites as well. We've proven that through a hundred or more years of fighting with civil liberties. When blacks acquired those civil liberties, guess who else got them? All people in American society. Charter schools are not an experiment. When you talk about charter schools, holding them to a standard that we've never held the public schools to charter schools have yet to talk about having these large disparities. Truly a good strong charter school is a progressive school which allows us to be able to have not 75 percent teacher certification, but only 50 percent. You need less teacher certification. Martin Luther King and Albert Schweitzer could never have taught in a public school without being certified. What do we a miss when we in fact put the same constraints on everyday people who are fighting for their lives? It's a battle of their lives. This is not a battle of money, which is really what this issue is more about than anything else. 278 RESOLUTION #980766 Education is a growth industry in American society. The fight against charter schools and this whole idea of the driving of money lies more around the fact that people want to maintain the status quo because of privilege. If in fact we maintain the status quo, the people who have traditionally been able to get the contracts will keep them. The people who continue to get the promotions will keep them; the tenure, will keep them. The people who will continue to buy or sell the toilet paper, the pencils, the books, they'll keep it. The construction contracts will stay in the same place, they'll keep them.
It's a golden opportunity for African-Americans to see themselves not being students, but to run their own schools, become entrepreneurs. The State of Pennsylvania put 15 to 17 billion dollars a year in education. That's an awful lot of money. And yet what happens is we do not get the same bang for our buck. If we were in fact in a business holding people to a business standard, the product that we now see coming our of most of public schools would force that business into bankruptcy. And no banker would put more money 279 RESOLUTION #980766 into it. No, the charter schools are good. The charter schools need support. The State needs to go further. Tim Daniels and others need to really lobby for greater capitalization so many of these schools when they're starting up have greater start-up capital. They need to reduce the down time for them getting the money to operate. It's a business opportunity. Wouldn't it be wonderful if in fact many of the African-America churches on every corner had a school? Wouldn't it be great if they replaced the bars with schools? But as long as African-Americans don't believe they have the ability to control the education and run the education of their own children, they'll leave them in the hands of other people. Representative Clark makes a good point. Teachers' unions are seen as adversaries because they block the doors for many of reforms. You cannot do that and at the same time be seen as a person who is participating. Public education has magna schools which are great. Nobody wants to shut down Jenks, nobody wants to shut down Henry, nobody wants to shut down good schools. But often times 280 RESOLUTION #980766 those who criticize the faults of the school system are often times seen as pariah within the community. They attempt to shut their voices down. Well, mine is not one of those that can be shut down. Special education can be handled in public schools and also in charter schools, and more money should be made available for that. We need to recognize the fact that there's a culture within the public school system that you're fighting, a culture of nepotism, a culture of internal controls, a culture of greed, a culture of politics, a culture of special interests. And that is why there is much resistance. It is conceivable that the public schools will have to learn and do as all other business do in America, consider the possibility of out-sourcing. Larger is not better. We don't ever need to see again two and three and four thousand children inside of one great big megalopolis, all concrete. I've challenged the black clergy, where were they when the fight for reform was going on? Where was the black clergy when in fact prayer was taken out of the schools? Where is the black clergy 281 RESOLUTION #980766 when dogs are allowed to come in and sniff? Where is the black clergy when in fact lockers are being searched and seized? First and fourth amendment rights being violated. Where are were they? Where are they now? You cannot really support two masters. The gift they may get from union alliances and from political alliances are not sufficient. They're not sufficient. Charter schools are often times been used and seen in the same way as some of the people sitting behind me are treated. It's all right but not in my backyard. The truth of the matter is if it's all right for one, it's all right for all. We won't take those who may be mentally challenged in our backyards or those who may in fact be mis-educated in our backyards, but we'll take prisons and halfway houses in our backyards. More driven by profit and greed than it is by need. Clearly, I think what happens is it's very, very important for us to look at education reform in its totality. It is impossible for us to not to talk about public education and the maintenance thereof. At the same time, it's impossible for us to talk about meaningful reform 282 RESOLUTION #980766 and not take into account home education.
It may be as many as percent of the American population who 4 have the ability to have children in school are 5 educating themselves in their homes. You cannot 6 talk about reform without talking about charter 7 schools and magna schools. It's a part of the 8 equation. 9 Finally, you cannot talk reform without 10 talking about scholarships and vouchers, where parents will be given the right to choose a school of their choice and the money should follow the child. Because in America, the American democracy, it's fundamental. Freedom is the ability to make choices and know what the consequence of the choice is before you make it. Most Americans have understood that and have had choice. But the poor, particularly African-American poor and Hispanic poor seldom get the choice to pick housing, to pick a job, to pick education. Those who would dare block the door for those reforms are really the enemy of the people whether they're black or white. Middle class black people suffer from some of the same malaise that often times their counterpart white middle class professionals suffer from, too, and 283 RESOLUTION #980766 that is, they already experienced using and operating and selecting choice to send their children to the school of their choice and at the same time would have the audacity to talk against the prospect of the poor having the same right. Thanks you. ) CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you, Dr. Palmer. Last, but certainly not least, Mr. Eugene Bivens. And we're sorry your wife Dr. Bivens had to leave but we thank you both.
I have copies of my presentation here. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you.
I'm Eugene Bivens representing the NAACP Education Committee. At the outset, we want to say that we lament the fact that the public schools have declined to the point where this public hearing has to take place. Public schools could have been saved if school districts had reformed disciplinary procedures so that youngsters who wanted to attend school could do so in a safe environment. Most 284 RESOLUTION #980766 acknowledge that charter schools and vouchers were first proposed to establish safe school environments for pupils and fearful parents. This could have been done if school districts shortened the process of due process when transferring an unruly pupil to an alternative setting. The signatures of 80 percent of the teachers of a disruptive pupil should be enough to have that pupil transferred to a discipline school. There are other reforms that unsuccessful school districts failed to address. Such failures include: The failure to develop an administrators exam recruit the most committed individuals. Two, the failure to adopt or examine strategies used successfully elsewhere and pleaded for by the public. Such strategies are now being used successfully in charter schools such as uniforms in the schools, cameras in the classroom, cameras on school buses, and finally the use of phonics so pupils can learn to read. The Philadelphia Inquirer articles of August 25, 1998 and March 19, 1998, pages listed here report these successes. The American Teacher newsletter states 285 RESOLUTION #980766 that the Learning First Alliance, an alliance of organizations that includes the AFT, NEA, and national organizations representing school boards, principals, school administrators, teacher educators, parents and others issued a paper calling on educator and policy makers to adopt policies consistent with available research on how to teach reading effectively. That research, asserts the paper, calls for a strong emphasis on phonemic awareness. Superintendent David Hornbeck has steadfast refused affirmatively act on the use of phonics in the teaching of reading. We posit that the main reason young males lose interest in school is because of their inability to read. These tragic circumstances lead to low self esteem often an even more tragic journey into criminal behavior. An idle mind is a devil's workshop. These strategies, rejected by unsuccessful school districts, can now be implemented in charter schools. This is good. The charter choice is not to be confused with the voucher choice. The proposed voucher plan as reported in the Philadelphia Inquirer would give 286 RESOLUTION #980766 parents $350 to $1,000 per child, based upon income. A voucher system would lead us back to the same old problems. The same unready pupils would be forced upon the schools, and there would be further destruction of what is left of the public schools. A myriad of other problems would ensue. Inept administrators would cause school after school to fail. When schools fail, we find brand new materials that unsuspecting teachers ordered, now out on a school platform waiting for the trash truck, promoting further waste. I've seen it. I've seen it with the Keystone school. What then happens to the child who wants a transcript to attend college and his high school has closed? This is only one example of what vouchers could bring about. To a lesser extent, same could happen to charter schools. The idea to establish a joint State/ City committee to guide us through this critical period of educational and social development is good. We hope that joint hearings lead to this initiative. Certainly we cannot go on with charter fighting the school districts for scarce resources, 287 RESOLUTION #980766 each with their own bias. A house divided cannot stand. Nebulous areas of funding like transportation, where the school district claims inability to perform, need to be attended to.
Possible recruitment of some of the parents to be licensed bus drivers with the appropriate vehicles may be one solution. A joint, odd member, City and State Charter School Committee funded by both bodies, with staff from the Education Committees of each, may be one method of alleviating the growing pains of charter schools in Pennsylvania. The Pennsylvania Department of Education should have representation on the committee. The committee should elect its own chairperson. The Pennsylvania Department of Education should have the task of initiating the formation of the committee with authorizing legislation. Let us move on. Thank you for listening. CHAIRWOMAN BLACKWELL: Thank you very much. We certainly thank you for staying all day. We apologize to the those committee members for the 288 RESOLUTION #980766 Health and Human Services Committee. We did not mean to delay you. We did not expect some of my colleagues asking questions that would delay you. We hope your hearing goes as well as ours has. And with this, if there are no further comments or questions, we would recess the committee subject to the call of the Chair. Thank you. Certainly, all of the guests who were here, let me say a special thanks to State Representative Dwight Evans who co-Chair and State Representative Mike Horsey, all the guests who came out of town, all the people from across the State. All those who represent private company and interests were all contacted by State Representative Dwight Evans and his office, and we certainly thank him because we could not have had a hearing without the State being involved. Thank you. ) - - - 289 I N D E X RESOLUTION 980766 PAGE MICHAEL CARP, Family Charter School --------- 164 GAIL HAWKINS BUSH, Alliance Charter School -- 170 CHRIS THOMAS WIGGINS, Imhotep Institute ----- 180 DR. VUONG THUY, Mult-Cultural Academy Charter School --------------------------------- 192 HECTOR BONILLA, Eugenio Maria de Hostos Community Bilingual Charter School --------------- 200 MADELINE SHIKOMBA, Center for Economics & Law Charter School ------------------------- 204 TOD REYNOLDS PHIL ESBRANDT, Drexel University/Foundations Technical Assistance Center for Charter Schools -------------------------------- 211 GAIL MEISTER, Drexel University/Foundations Technical Assistance Center for Charter Schools -------------------------------- 212 SHELLY YANOFF, Philadelphia Coalition for Children and Youth ------------------------------ 221 PAT HALPIN-MURPHY, Government Relations Phila. Federation of Teachers ----------------- 226 JANET DUBINSKY, Garden Court Community Association ---------------------------- 249 KEN CAMPBELL, Advantage Schools ------------- 253 DR. WALTER PALMER, The Phila. Coalition for Education Reform and School Choice ----- 271 DR. EUGENE BIVENS, NAACP Education Committee- 283 290 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of December 8, 1998, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. RE: COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION ___________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR and Notary Public ___________________________ Debra A. Whitehead, RPR and Notary Public