COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE ON LAW AND GOVERNMENT - - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Thursday, November 20, 2003 - - - - RESOLUTION 030227 - Resolution authorizing the City Council Committee on Law and Government to investigate the effectiveness and efficiency of the delivery of public housing resources and services to the low and moderate income residents of Philadelphia by the Philadelphia Housing Authority in cooperation with the City of Philadelphia... PRESENT: COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN, Chair COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILMAN MICHAEL NUTTER COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 I N D E X BILL 030227 PERCY BANTON......................... TIFFANY ANDREWS...................... 14 PHIL LORD, Tenants Action Group...... 23 6 HABIB ALI............................ 38 NANCY SOLANDRIA, Disabled in Action.. 51 JIMMY SCHROED, Disabled in Action.... 58 ERIC VON SCHMETTERLING, Disabled In Action. ...................... 64 JEFFREY TOOLE, Liberty Resources..... 68 DAVID CORNELSON, Liberty Resources... 68 PATRICIA BALTIMORE................... 76 3 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - BILL 030227
I'm going to announce the opening of the Law and Government's renewed hearing on the Philadelphia Housing authority. This is a continuing hearing, and a quorum is present in that the quorum exists from previous hearings. This is a continuous hearing. There's been a series of hearings every since PHA decided it is free to choose whether or not to come. So I think people are interested in Philadelphia in finding out what's going to be the end of the story. I'm convinced the end of the story will be that the heads of PHA, whoever they may be at the time, will learn that they will have to respond to City Council as a legislative authority in the City. And although it is the question of whether the City contributes or how much it contributes is not the decisive factor in the City Council's power to subpoena. PHA is an agency that in different pieces of literature claims to house 78,000 Philadelphians. It is the largest landlord. 4 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - BILL 030227 Some people call it the slum lord of Philadelphia. What this hearing is aimed at, among other things, is to find out if that name is accurate, whether it's a landlord or slum lord. Some people will be here today who thought they were going to a meeting of the Executive Board, only to learn that the place had been changed without any notice to them. Well, that kind of unconcern about people's rights is something that marks PHA beyond all other agencies. Any agency that serves to house thousands of Philadelphians and is the single largest landlord in the City by far -- I think it's bigger than next four largest landlords added together. Any agency that houses that many people and employs 2000, less or more -- we'll find out in testimony -- is certainly responsible to the people of Philadelphia. There's nothing in the statement of powers of City Council that limits Philadelphia City Council in its efforts to investigate conditions which will finally 5 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - BILL 030227 result in legislation affecting the welfare of Philadelphians to agencies supported only by Philadelphia government. We have the right to investigate private businesses if that investigation is part of our legislative pursuits. And we get many complaints from people, some of whom live in PHA developments, some of whom work for PHA, that it more than any other agency grievously abuses the rights of the people who work for it and who live in its properties. So this Committee will always follow the policy of being open and available to people. Now, today we're going to follow a policy of interrupting our planned agenda for today to hear what people want to know. First, I'm going to ask the residents who have come here believing there was going to be a meeting of the Executive Board -- did you think it was downstairs in the Conversation Hall? Where did you expect the meeting to take place? Is there somebody who would like to be a spokesperson for the people from the various developments? 6 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - BILL 030227 Suppose we begin -- I was given a list by my staff, and to prevent insurrection on their part, let me accept their recommendations to begin with. Therefore, I will call as the first witness Tiffany Andrews.
Tiffany went to get her children, Councilman. She'll be right back.
All right. Then we'll go on to the next witness, Percy Banton (ph). Is Percy Banton here? Percy, would you come forward to the table where the microphone is? Now, because there are a good number of witnesses, I'm going to ask that there be brevity in what you say and proceed to tell us whatever you think we ought to know about whatever problem you are having or want to talk about. Mr. Banton, go ahead. Tell us what brought you here today and why you think we ought to know it.
What bought me here today is the shelter system, the people that 7 Greene are in shelter system. It's no PHA housing.
Start by giving your name; and if you live in the development or work in the development, please identify that, then tell us the nature of the question. You are Habib Ali?
You can act as the informal advisor. I've known you for many years.
Feel at home. But you have to speak directly into the microphone so you will be heard.
My name Percy Banton, and I'm currently homeless right now. And we had came from PHA on a demonstration we had earlier today. We was coming down here for their Board meeting or something, and they had moved it. But my gripe with PHA is that under the OESS system, Office of Emergency Shelter 8 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 Services, we have no type of housing available under that system for the men or the women with children. That's my argument. And then with Carl Greene, what they're trying to do with the cuts, I mean, you know, upping the rent with the people that's already in the units and stuff like that there, there's just no affordable housing for none of the homeless people. It's like they make the shelters permanent housing, and that's not the solution; it's only supposed to be temporarily. And ex-offenders, we're not eligible for no type of housing. Even if you finish your parole, your probation and done everything that's required of you, we're still not eligible for housing. It's no housing under the OESS umbrella. And the homeless people should have first priority at getting the PHA or Section 8 voucher. There's nothing there for us. So people are becoming homeless at a rapid pace for whatever different reasons. And the shelters are just not the way; it's supposed to be temporarily. 9 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 And Mr. Carl Greene, he don't want to answer to ya'll; he don't want to answer to us. He's holding back 20-something hundred vouchers that can go to families and single women or whoever supposed to get them. They're not getting them. You understand? And single men, we sho-nuff can't get nothing right now. So I have no other choice but to fight. You know what I mean? I have to fight. That's just where I'm at, whatever it takes. Because I feel as though Carl Greene, he has to answer to ya'll, to us. He owe the people some answers. Why is he doing what he's doing? Because if you're homeless, you're entitled to housing. Nobody asks to be homeless. Anybody can become homeless for various and different reasons. A lot of them is just a paycheck away from being where I'm at or whatever, but then you walk over us like we don't exist or whatever. We do exist. Everybody ought to be entitled to some type of affordable housing.
Well, that's supposed to be one of the main purposes of 10 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 City government is to provide a program of affordable housing. Ever since Mr. Greene has been the Executive Director of Philadelphia Housing, two things have happened simultaneously: The waiting list has grown, and the number of units available has grown increasingly fewer and fewer. And there is less housing available today than there was in the days before Mr. Greene came, and he is a strong advocate of reducing the number of Section 8 vouchers and reducing the number of affordable housing for the poor. He is an advocate for market rate housing to be inter-mixed with housing provided by Philadelphia Housing Authority with a net effect being that there's much less housing available for the people who need it most. And that's been a problem that we're trying to get to. And I guess that's one of the main reasons, in my judgment, why Mr. Greene is so anxious to keep things hidden. He doesn't want people to know that instead of being an advocate for housing, in fact, is an advocate of less housing for the 11 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 people who need it most. And I think that's one of the serious problems we have to deal with in Philadelphia. Further, he's supported in all of his bad behavior by the Mayor, because I cannot believe for a moment that the Mayor who is most influential in Mr. Greene's appointment is powerless to act. The Mayor appoints basically -- between the Mayor and the City Controller, they appoint all the members of the Housing Board, the Board you thought you were going to be meeting with. And there's one easy way to solve everything at PHA, and that is by the Mayor informing Mr. Greene and others that unless they shape up immediately and treat people with respect and with concern that they're not going to -- well, they'll be wasting their time reporting to work because they're not going to get paid anymore. And Mr. Greene gets an exorbitant salary which he tries to keep hidden. As the exponent for people, I believe his salary now is somewhere between 150 and $175,000 a year, while that's far from the income that a person 12 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 who lives in housing. Now, I think your point is well taken. We know that supportive services by Philadelphia City government has also dropped sharply during the period that Mr. Greene has taken over as Executive Director. And so we have very basic complaints about housing. We know that the workers who work for Housing Authority are being confronted by Mr. Greene with facing a future of retirement that is based, not on their base salary, say, over a three-year period as exists in Philadelphia if you work in regular City government. You, say, work 30 years, your salary is based upon the best three years of your career. Apparently, under Mr. Greene, we're being told, the salary is dependent upon the current three years of service and the next 20 or 30 years play very little role in determining how much you earn at retirement. Now, that's part of the overall attack by different groups of people on the retirement rights of poor people. Poor people and low income people have to understand if 13 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 they're going to be trained to fight for their rights, they have to understand that they're always the targets of bad government policy. The government seems to push people in two directions, make the rich richer and the poor poorer when it ought to be exact reverse. So that's why we want Philadelphia, the birth place of the nation, to be the birth place of new policies for City government, policies that put human rights and human welfare first and the profits of rich business people second -- maybe not even second, maybe they ought to be down at the end of the list, but certainly not first on the list. So we thank you very much Mr. Banton for your concern.
Very good. Welcome to the hearing. Why don't you tell us your story? And the next witness after that will be -- I believe we're going to change the schedule. I understand Mr. Phil Lord, whom 14 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 I've known for many, many years and who's an activist over many years standing for the people is here. And after Tiffany, I would like to ask him to speak. I hope you excuse us, Habib, and you follow him, all right?
Hello. My name is Tiffany Andrews. I'm kind of nervous, but I'm here to speak up for myself and my family. I'm years old. I live in the South 15 Philadelphia area. 16
The Chair wants 17 to note the presence of Councilwoman Blackwell 18 and Councilman Rizzo, Members of the 19 Committee. Thank you. 20 Go ahead. 21
I have four children. 22 I've encountered with plenty of good jobs 23 within the past years. But due to my living 24 situation and my depending or Public 25 Assistance, it has limited me to actually 15 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 finding a job paying halfway decent money and being able to make money to save up for a security deposit to move in. I've been on the waiting list for Section 8 and PHA for about -- Section 8 for about three and a half years; and PHA, about two years. Like I said, I call on a daily basis. I call every day, you know, hoping and praying that something different will be said. On numerous times I've called and I've got people with just no kind of caring at all. They'll tell me, "Well, you're still on the waiting list. There's nothing that I can tell you." I say, "Well, ma'am, do you know when the last lottery selection was done?" She said, "In August." I said, "Well, do you know when another one will come up?" She said, "Well, maybe November." Here it is November, I call back and they say, "Well, no, we're not doing a selection this month. 16 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 One time I called, they tell me -- I had one operator tell me -- she said, "I know your voice. You can't call here on a constant basis the way you do." I'm like, "Well, ma'am, every time I call, I'm getting told the same thing. I'm calling to try to find out something different."
And you have the right to call, and they have a responsibility to answer. But in their arrogance and their belief that PHA is a separate kingdom somewhere, that's the reason they behave in the terrible manner they behave.
I was down there in June of 2002 to put my daughter on my family size list because they say call if you have any complaints or change of address or anything. So I call there and I have my receipt from June 2002. I called back maybe not even a couple months ago and they say, "Well, we still have your family size as three." Okay. So she said, "You will have 17 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 to come in." I went back down, gave them a change of address. She punch my social security number in the computer, my name which is Tiffany Andrews and my social security number -- my social security number was under another person's name. She had to call her supervisor and it was like a problem. Why was my social security under someone else's name. So it's stressed out with four kids, you know, not having a stable place. I don't want to turn to DHS. I'm afraid if I do call DHS and let them know how I'm truly feeling, they'll take my children away from me. My children are not neglected, they're not abused and they're not hungry. I send my son to school every day. But it's hard for me right now. I'm on hard times right now. And I went to a shelter. I went to OESS with my three children; I was pregnant at the time. I went to went St. Barnabus out on 60th and Girard. In the summer, I had to come out every day, pregnant with three children and had to stay outside in the hot. 18 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 Leaving my home because I didn't come from a good background. My mother is an alcohol. I don't have my father. My brother is there, he's years old. So it's like 6 what do I do now? Go back home, you know. In 7 the mean time I'm still calling Section 8. 8 I'm there at OESS getting 294 every two weeks. 9 I have to pay my mother half. What am I left 10 with? I don't even have enough to save to 11 even try to even have a security deposit to 12 put down or anything. You know, I go down, I 13 ask them, I explain my situation to them. My 14 children's doctor -- all my children were 15 premies and my daughter is asthmatic. My 16 children's doctor has actually wrote me a 17 letter to take to Section 8. They say, "This 18 is not going to do anything for you, this is 19 not going work. All I can tell you is you 20 just have to wait." 21 I don't know what to do anymore. So 22 that's why I've been fighting with Sister 23 Habib and everyone else. I'm here today with my baby. I had to make other arrangements for my other children, but I'm here just to get an 19 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 opinion. I went to Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell's office one time. One of her secretaries gave me a list of housing. But what am I to do if I have two evictions on my credit report and don't have no money to even move anywhere? It's nothing to do but to go to the shelter. I cannot go to the shelter with four children with a crib and a bunk bed. It's nothing for me to do. Basically, I'm back at home with my mother. I'm battling that situation out, and it's like a different story every day. I can't really go out and look for a job right now because I need day care. In order to get subsidized, I have to be working. And I have to get on the waiting list and stay on the waiting list for a year to two. So best thing is to stay on Public Assistance, let Public Assistance put me in a program just to get child care.
Well, several months ago, we got a call late in the afternoon, I think it was a Friday afternoon, 20 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 about an apartment house where a judge had ordered everybody out of the house because of his fear that the place might have a fire. There was no fire alarm system working. And we discovered that under Mr. Carl Greene that there were no Section 8 vouchers available for housing and people had to be put up at little hotels that were not suitable for their needs as a family unit and it was very expensive to the City. But the supportive services that used to be available were no longer available. So Mr. Greene apparently favors people going to shelters or private rental space to maybe help landlords, I don't know why else the City ought to be paying the high rates of hotels when there's Section 8 housing available that people could shop around and pick the housing they want. Philadelphia is a City where everybody has a right to live wherever they want to live. And a free and open Section 8 policy is a sound policy. Over many years we've learned that complaints about Section 8 are often not Section 8 problems at all. But whenever 21 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 there's a complaint about a landlord, immediately people are concerned that it's probably Section 8 housing. Wherever there is a Section 8 housing problem, we in the City try to solve it. If people need help, we want to see that they get the help. Some people are not used to living together with other people and maybe they need help when they join a community, they need services, they need help with their children. And since Mr. Greene arrived, those supportive services have been going downhill rapidly. And your problem should never have happened and you should never be treated the way you are, because that's not the way government ought to be treating its citizens. We thank you for your report. But that's why this Committee has been meeting and will continue to meet until the PHA situation gets corrected and people are treated the right way. I want to congratulate you Ms. Andrews for continuing your struggle to be treated as every human being has a right to be 22 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 treated. And whatever this Committee can do on your behalf, it will do.
Do any of the members of the Committee have any questions they wish to ask of Tiffany Andrews or of Percy Banton? Councilwoman Blackwell, I know your name was mentioned by Tiffany. Is there anything you want to say about that circumstance?
We are always happy to work with her if she wants to go back on her individual circumstance. I do remember her. And certainly work with Habib Ali and know of her commitment to all people everywhere. So we're always happy to work with any individual tenant on their specific circumstance, and if she will visit us -- I think Penny may still be downstairs. If she is able to go down now or if she wants to come during the day if she wants to stay here for the rest of the hearing, then we'll try to see what we can do. Always happy to look into her 23 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 case.
All right. I would take advantage of that offer by Councilwoman Blackwell. Over the years, Councilwoman Blackwell has been a strong fighter for human rights. And we know that we can rely on her. So why don't you get together with Councilwoman Blackwell at some point in time and see if this can be straightened out. At least if we can get some problems straightened out, we're in much better shape.
Mr. Lord, the Committee welcomes you here. Mr. Lord, introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about your experience and then tell us what you'd like us to here.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify this evening. I'm here with Albert C. Wright, our lead organizer from Tenants Action Group of Philadelphia. TAG, as you probably know, has been 24 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 involved in the tenant movement for the last 30 years. And we've been having the opportunity to work with people who are suffering from PHA policies. In particular, we are forming a City-wide tenants union called TURN, Tenant Union Representative Network. And TURN has been meeting with Section 8 tenants and with people who are homeless who are distraught and distressed because of what PHA is doing. The three things that we're primarily concerned about fall in these categories: One, as already has been mentioned, that PHA is not using the vouchers that it has. And we think this a tragic situation, given the fact that people are staying in shelters for two years and more. We have one of our people who came in our office and is here this evening who's been around five years looking for a place on a waiting list. It's unattainable. They're going off the waiting list but not getting properties. We know that PHA has gotten the 25 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 opportunity to issue 2800 new vouchers and have chosen not to do that; they only issued 700. And they use that other money for other kinds of services. Now, the high profile issue is that they're using the money for helping Section 8 tenants to become better citizens. The fact of the matter is that there are 30 different groups that are being approached, each offering a hundred thousand dollars each to try to do work with Section 8 tenants. That adds up to $3 million. $16 million is being saved, which means a lot of money is going to other things that is not really clear to us what that money is going towards. Even that money that's going there to help people who are supposed to need help because they have to be better citizens is misdirected, we believe, because the fact of the matter is, Councilman, as you already said and Carl Greene himself has said, 90 percent of the people that get complained about to PHA are not on Section 8 at all. And he said that on the radio himself. So the reality is that the 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 complaints are coming in for any poor person or any person that seems to be disrupting, and Section 8 program and the housing program is getting blamed for that. And that's the classism and racism we have in the City of Philadelphia, not a matter of the Section 8 program. But Section 8 program does have problems in terms of keeping repairs up, in terms of proper maintenance of the properties, in terms of their workers being available to people who have complaints about their landlords. And even though PHA is working on this, this is where the effort needs to be going, not to cutting back vouchers. The other thing that we're very concerned about is the cap on Section 8, seven-year cap on the use of Section 8 certificates. We believe this is an irrational program. It reflects the federal program which did not get passed on the federal level and is an abuse of discretion by PHA. The truth of the matter is that people who are thrown off of Section 8 -- it hasn't 27 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 happened yet, but people who don't get housing choice vouchers seven years from now may or may not be able to be independent at that point, and that's just completely unfair. If the program doesn't work for them and they still need help, why throw them off? If they haven't had the opportunity to become independent, why throw them off the program? It's irrational, it doesn't make sense if the people are not ready to be off the program at that point. We value independence but not an arbitrary deadline. If someone is prepared before seven years to be independent, they should be off the program then. It's really about being able to be self-sufficient, not about an arbitrary deadline of seven years.
And finally, we've heard very recently about the new policy. I don't know if it's passed yet, but being considered, to make everybody pay rent on Section 8. We think this is another instance of abuse of discretion. The fact of the matter is that some people can't afford to pay rent. And even if you have a zero income, they're being 28 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 required to pay rent. How can you pay rent if you have a zero income. That doesn't make any sense. So the hardships being imposed are not connected to the ability of the people to pay. And we feel overall that PHA has taken different policies that haven't really helped folks that the program is designed to help. And we would appreciate anything that City Council could do to try to make PHA function better and to eliminate these policies. We think this has to happen soon because people need vouchers. Our people that come to us need vouchers, people in the City Philadelphia generally need vouchers, and we need more affordable housing. It's a desperate need for affordable housing. We've had studies that I'm sure you're aware of that show that the housing need in Philadelphia is in crisis proportions. We want to make sure something's done about that. So we thank you for the time. We have written testimony we'll hand up. We appreciate your concern about this issue and 29 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 look forward to further action by City Council. )
Thank you very much. Are the any questions by Members of the Committee of Mr. Lord? (No response.)
His record, as I indicated before, is a distinguished one in fighting for housing rights for poor people and working people. You know, we have in this country a strange thing. We have programs aimed at trying to convince people who are dependent on Welfare to work for a living, and instead of work bringing rewards, they learn largely that they have less working than they had when they were on Welfare. They loss, for example, medical services and often their actual dollar income is less. Now, if somebody works and our country is based on the concept of freedom of people to work and responsibility to see that 30 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 there are jobs for people, under those circumstances working ought to produce at least one benefit. It ought to give people enough income so families can live like people and not be forced to live by animals, as often they are compelled to these days. Therefore, in any campaign aimed at transferring people from Welfare rolls to the working rolls can't work unless there are certain rewards. One reward being a person can look in the mirror and say, "I can support my family. I'm part of the American workforce. I'm not asking for handouts for anybody because I'm doing work and I'm making a real effort and succeeding in that effort to produce on behalf of the American people." Yet that's not the way we treat -- we've developed a phrase "working poor." Those two words don't go together. It's like saying it's a sunny rainy day today. And it's the same kind of concept because it can't exist. And you ought to be poor if you're at work. You ought to be part of the middle class. Maybe not at the top, maybe not even 31 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 at the middle, but you certainly ought to be able to walk with your head high in the air knowing you are producing enough to earn a living for yourself and your family and you ought to be entitled to things like medical care and medical benefits instead of being treated by an alley cat with nobody to be concerned about them. Even alley cats often get more medical care from sympathetic people than human beings do in our society. And therefore, we've got to change that. Mr. Lord, I want you to know that your efforts on behalf of working poor people, because that phrase still exists today the way we treat poor people and working people, your efforts are very much appreciated. And before you retire, it may not happen when I retire either underground or whatever happens to older folk, but certainly in your lifetime I'm sure you're going to win the fight. And as long as there's breath in my body, as long as I'm in City Council -- and I wouldn't put any bets on how long that might be, it might be a long time, it might be short time, but we'll 32 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 let the Lord make that decision. But for all that time I'm going to be working on behalf of making government treat everybody fairly. That's what people are entitled to. And you're making great contribution to it, Mr. Lord.
I'd like to ask Habib Ali and then I will ask for questions from Members of the Committee.
I certainly want to commend Mr. LORD for his commitment in this area over the years. We were both young one and day we're now older, we've been around involved so long. I think that, certainly, I'm glad to have a copy of your testimony. I fought to get on this PHA Board of Commissioners because it is so important to 33 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 the people we try to service that we have advocates on the Board. And in fact, today we had another ground breaking at Wilson Homes for more housing for seniors and others, for families 2, and bedroom units. My point is that I think this whole issue of the seven years is one that we can talk about. Thank goodness we're at the beginning of that seven-year, so it gives us time to deal with that as a policy issue. I think the other issue of how we use the vouchers. I think Carl Greene is a visionary. I think he's been creative, I think that we can work together and I ask that we do that. You can contact, certainly, Councilman Cohen or myself or contact me through him, however you're comfortable. We certainly want to give our Chair the respect, so we can talk about the whole issue of vouchers and how they can be used. They have been transformed into housing and other ways that can serve the same constituency. But I think those are issues in terms of what you see, what your vision of the need is. I mean, 34 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 they're all people. No matter where we are, it's the same people we're all trying to help. So I think that's something we can do. I think the seven years issue we can talk about. And I think the issue of how we use vouchers is another issue that we can deal with and certainly try to -- and you know, PHA get vouchers get every year, and I think that is one that we can deal with as to what you view as need, what TAG views as need, and how we can best serve the population that we both so desire to. So I look forward to working more closely with you on this. The other issue, the whole pension stuff is separate, but this part -- and I know all that's in legal-smegal, but certainly the whole issue of affordable housing for people in need is one that's my commitment, the one that He above gave me to deal with and that is my life-long commitment. I'm happy to work with you in this regard.
Thank you, 35 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 Councilman.
We all appreciate the remarks of Councilwoman Blackwell who, as you all know, is Majority Leader and Chairman of the Finance Committee for City Council, and she expresses in addition to her role as leader of the Council forces in the 3rd District in Philadelphia, she also expresses them on a City-wide basis, holding two City-wide positions in City Council. So we thank you and are looking forward to working very diligently with Councilwoman Blackwell to straighten out PHA and get it to work for Philadelphia the way it ought to work. Now, Habib Ali, you're next. What comments do you wish to make?
Yes, Councilman. I'd like to thank you for giving us an opportunity to be heard this evening. I want to thank the Councilpeople who are present. And I'd like to know, did the other Councilpeople, were they aware that you were having a hearing this evening? Because their empty seats is not taken well. 36 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227
Well, I have to tell you, I was very impolite to my colleagues the last couple of days. We've been considering rich men's problems like should we get rid of the old Sam Eric but retain its historic traditions and have a new concert theater. And I was very concerned that the hearings on that attracted lots of Councilmembers. But when people come to complain about the conditions like today, there are very few Councilmembers who seem interested to listen to them. And I don't think that's a good example for Council to behave in that fashion. So I think you're right, but attendance at Council hearings is a matter that's voluntary to a Councilmember. The only resort people have in the democratic form of government is the election process. And I think on the whole we have a pretty good Council. We're working very hard to establish its independence so that its decisions represent the thinking of the ordinary people of Philadelphia. Most of us in City Council 37 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 believe that we actually have much more contact with the people of Philadelphia than the Mayor does, because the Mayor is too busy cutting ribbons of opening new business places, deciding how much money he needs for his campaigns and how he's going to get it. We in City Council raise far less money and spend much more time with people out in the area. And we want to have a cooperative arrangement with the Mayor, but our Mayor does not seem to believe that anybody except he ought to participate in decision-making in the City. And for that reason, we've not been able to get him to work with us. Imagine a Mayor permitting a person appointed by him to behave as Mr. Greene behaves. It's unthinkable, because what we have is anarchy in government. The Mayor has known about Mr. Greene's refusal to obey Council subpoenas or to accept Council invitations. What does he do? Twice already he's asked us for delays, that he thinks he'll straighten the matter 38 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 out. And then there's no indication that he does anything because Mr. Greene continues in his unreasonable behavior toward City Council. And that's what our concern is. We want the Members of Council -- we have a good Council, in my judgment. Every Member works very hard. Even if I spend most of my time disagreeing with some member doesn't mean he's not working hard. We represent different views; and that's okay. It's good for people in a legislative body to represent all the views that exist in government. But the one thing most important is that people agree on one thing and that's the main function of City government has to be making sure that people are treated fairly and honorably. And that's not the case today in Philadelphia, and that's what we've got to change and why we call on the Mayor to cooperate with us. So Habib Ali, why don't you proceed?
Yes, Councilman. I want to thank you. I'm here on a few topics, but they're all related to housing. 39 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 As you and some of the Councilmembers may know, I'm a formerly homeless mother of four children out of the late '80s and have been an advocate fighting for the rights of fair, decent, accessible, affordable housing for people in Philadelphia ever since. There are several things that are going on that we are very discouraged with PHA. First and foremost, I must say, while I was blessed to raise three of my four children in subsidized housing, I was recently laid off from very gainful employment. My unemployment has expired, and I'm currently receiving Public Assistance. I was forced to sign in April a contract stating that I would be out of Section 8 subsidized housing in seven years. I was also told that if I didn't sign that contract, as the rest of the women in the room, that we would lose our Section 8 subsidy immediately. I felt as though I was being threatened. And when I told the women how to sign, UCC1-207 so that they would not held 40 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 accountable because we were being coerced to sign this contract, PHA called seven police officers on me and a group of women. And I explained to them that they would be signing their children into homelessness in a matter of seven years. No one said it would be case by case. No one said that if you couldn't afford fair market rent or afford homeownership within the seven-year time period there would be any accommodations. In 2010, seven years from now, we're going to have droves and droves of homeless people on the streets of Philadelphia. I don't think that that's something that we want. We also realized that $48 million went back to Department of Housing and Urban Development, unspent money that was earmarked for Section 8 vouchers in the City of Philadelphia. Mr. Greene, as Mr. Lord informed you, is currently sitting on 2100 vouchers that he's refusing to release when we have thousands of people on the waiting list, thousands of people in the homeless shelters. The $48 million that went back would have 41 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 eliminated that Section 8 housing waiting list. It would have wiped it out. I don't know if it's advantageous to have a list, if it's keeping people employed, but it is totally unacceptable. Now PHA has moved their visions from Section 8 tenants to PHA Public Housing tenants where, I understand, 30 percent of PHA's budget has been cut because they did not pass a federal audit. So they're passing these lack of funding on to the tenants. The PHA rents have not been raised in 14 years. And you may say, well, inflation goes up and everything else goes up but nevertheless, people are going to be raised the PHA rent for people have zero income have to pay $50 a month and they have to come and report to PHA every 90 days. Now, I don't understand how someone who is reported zero income is being mandated to pay $50 a month. And in some cases the rent will be raised as high as a hundred dollars a month. This is what the Philadelphia Housing Authority is doing to us right now here today. 42 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 There are several things that I want to discuss, and I will not take a lot of time, but a lot of us came here today at 3 o'clock. We were under the understanding that there was going to a PHA Board meeting here in Room 201 that happens every month here at 3:00 in 201. And there was no meeting there. There was no 9 sign stating where the meeting was moved to. But we wanted to show our discontent because we were told that the Board would be voting today on passing those rent increases to PHA tenants. I understood that they all were to receive a letter in the mail as to what PHA intentions were and then PHA would have several hearings around the City and then they would go to PHA Board to pass these rental increases.
I don't think that the average tenant realizes these increases are being put upon them because PHA has lost funding so they're passing this on onto the backs of the most needy and the poor. While PHA and Section 8 has worked for many people, I don't feel as though, like 43 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 myself that had the opportunity to raise my children in subsidized housing, now that I am need of housing, what am I supposed to do? I have put my resume out in many places. I am now going to stay on the Public Assistance because I have a medical condition I have to address. So I'm blessed to have the medical assistance. I have to have surgery. So I'm going to take advantage of that opportunity. We have another crisis that is happening in Philadelphia shelter systems. Councilman, I don't know if you are aware, we have a mother here today to is an ex-offender who has served her time, who has been an outstanding citizen, whose parole has been washed away. As of October 31st, she is free and clear. But because she is a felon, she can't get subsidized housing. Now, I know that this is something that's on the state level, but I'm hoping if there's a Councilperson that is willing to pick up this banner and fight for ex-offenders. There are ex-offender men and women who are stuck in the shelter system who cannot get subsidized 44 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 housing. This woman cannot get her child back out of the system until she has housing. She can't get housing because he's an ex-offender. So what was the point in her going to jail, serving her time, walking off her parole, and now she can't get housing? A lot of them shred your application as soon as you show that you are a former convict. You can't get hired. What is she supposed to do with $105 every two weeks? And the system will not release her child until she gets housing. We are caught in a vicious cycle. You have programs like Tenants Action Group, and a contingent of us went up to PHA to protest today, and we're planning a massive protest. We feel as though the Mayor needs to get control of Mr. Carl Greene. How dare he refuse to come here at Council. He acts like he is above reproach, he is above the law. He needs to be brought down to size. He doesn't meet with people. He refuses to meet with people. His staff treats you like you're less than human beings. He has staff in PHA that's making over $90,000 a year living in PHA 45 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 properties. But yet, when I was making $40,000 a year, I was told that in six months I had to pay my whole rent and my voucher was leaving. Thank God I got laid off in the fifth month, because if I had gotten laid off in the seventh month, here I would be with no 8 income, $700 a month to pay when I know there are top officials in PHA housing making over $90,000 a year living in PHA housing. It is absurd. Those houses need to be made available for people to come out of the shelter system and the struggling working class. Councilman Cohen, I just pray that God keeps you well and strong, yourself and Jannie, and I thank all the Councilpeople that have thought enough -- yes, Mr. Rizzo, you're so very handsome. Yes, Councilman Rizzo. And I thank you so much for taking the time to come here. Jannie is an angel, but she is only one Councilperson. There are many seats here, and they are empty and we don't appreciate it. I've seen then running around today. I know they were at work today. But 46 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 they forget the small people. We have registered over 2100 new voters out of the low income and the homeless population. We have people who are handicapped, wheelchair bound. There's not enough accessible, affordable housing for those in need. I don't know what it is that is important to the City Council anymore. I understand that we have citizens, that we vote. " We went to Harrisburg yesterday to have cuts restored for mental health and drug and alcohol.
There were over 2,000 people there. We were not allowed in the State Capital. In the rain, we had to stay out in rain. There is something wrong with this government. So perhaps they want a ground swell. Perhaps they want people to unite and just take to streets and come down here and take over City Council offices or the Mayor's office; we're not above it, we'll do that. )
But if we can sit down like decent human beings and get some resolve to our circumstances, that is what we would prefer. But somebody needs to put a leash on Mr. Greene. He's like a wild dog that will bite and bark. No one has any control over this man. He needs to be stepped to in a major way. He's a human being just like I am. Again, the City has gone outside of Philadelphia and brought in some outsider. We have plenty of talent right here in Philadelphia that can run PHA. So he's putting up these pre-fabs and he's pushing home ownership. Everybody's not trying to have a mortgage. It's one thing when you can't make a Section 8 payment, they will cover your entire rent. But when you can't meet that mortgage, they don't want to hear your sad story. You have a foreclosure and now you have major damage against your credit. So, Councilman, I plead with you, I plead with the other Councilpeople here to please ask the Mayor to get control of Mr. 48 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 Greene or get him out of there. A lot people were not going to vote for Mr. Street to get out Carl Greene, but we didn't want Bush in here, so we made sure Street was here. So it was like the lesser evil. But we shouldn't have to go there. So I plead with you, I beg with you, we are willing to work, but we are also willing to do what we need to do in the street like we did the '60s, like we did in the '70s like we did in the '80s when we did the housing takeovers. We are ready to do it in the new millennium because we are sick and tired. (Applause.)
I can tell you that what you promise to do in the future, you may well be called upon to do it, because until government acts more sensitively and more responsibly, the people have to remember it's their government and they have the right to take whatever action is needed to see that that government acts responsibly to everyone, particularly to the needy. They have the 49 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 first call upon the government. And I think you're right in your assessment that the Philadelphia Housing Authority is a very bad example of government in action. It breeds cynicism, it breeds contempt, it breeds belief that government is only for rich people and doesn't work for the poor. So Habib Ali, we're delighted that after these number of years your spirit is unscathed. I know that you're going to continue that battle all the way. Councilwoman Blackwell, you're a member of the Executive Board. Do you have any explanation about this change of meeting that several witnesses have raised? Was there any particular reason for the change today? Or was it just a failure, some kind of an error that people were not notified of the change?
Today, they had a dedication, Mr. Chair, at a senior development, 2500 Jackson Street in Wilson Park. And since they were there already for 50 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 the dedication of new properties, they had the Board meeting there. That's all I can tell you. In terms of -- I just know that they had the dedication and so they continued the meeting at the same location and they informed us. I don't know anything about downstairs.
Councilwoman, do you know if the bill was passed today that's going to increase the rents across the board for PHA tenants at that Board meeting?
I'm checking through the schedule now. I was at another meeting, so I got there late, but I'll tell you in about two seconds.
We think you ought to let the officials know that if every there's a change, that change has to committed to the people in the developments who come to their meetings. Now I'm going to ask for a change of the panel. We thank all of you very much for your assistance. (Applause.)
Mr. Chair, 51 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 today, no, nothing happened today with regard to rents. There were resolutions. They 4 talked about rent simplification program or 5 how they can use vouchers and transfer them 6 within programs at the PHA. But there was no 7 resolution today about a rent increase. 8
Thank you, Councilwoman. 9 Thank you, Councilman. 10 Thank you, Council. 11
Thank you. Nancy Solandria (ph), who's going to speak to us about the problems of the Disabled in Action and how PHA treats the disabled. Nancy, we'll ask that you be relatively brief, though you have a lot to tell us, I'm sure. And the other two people with her may feel to come and join her. And we want you to know we're very concerned about the treatment of disabled at every level in City Council and particularly among the people that PHA serves. We think PHA has a very special responsibility to provide decent, affordable housing for the disabled. 52 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 Why don't you all introduce yourselves, beginning with Nancy first.
I'm Nancy Solandria from Disabled in Action of Pennsylvania.
And would you introduce the two gentlemen or have them introduce themselves?
My name is Jimmy Schroed (ph) and I'm with Disabled in Action. I've been a housing advocate for many years now.
My name is Eric Von Schmetterling and I'm with Disabled in Action. I'm a past board member of Liberty Resources Center for Independent Living here in Philadelphia, and on a national level I'm a member of Adapt and I live in Philadelphia. I'm a person with a disability and we're here to say that we have not gotten our fair share and that we are a part the population and we don't want any more than our fair share, but we're here to make sure we do get our fair 53 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 share.
Thank you. At the end of these witnesses, I'm going to ask the students from the University of Pennsylvania Law School if any of them wish to comment on what they've heard today and what they feel government's responsibility is and how they, as budding young attorneys, can be helpful in the efforts to improve the kind of quality of governmental assistance to people.
I just want to say that I agree with what everybody said before us and that 35 percent of the population of this City makes 20,000 or less, so we're a big population; percent of the population is 18 disabled. 19 And the reason that I was first here 20 earlier today was to come to the PHA Board 21 meeting with somebody that I had been working 22 for two years to get a voucher and advocating 23 with him. He's very angry and very upset. 24 And we come and there's no notice, that all of 25 a sudden the Board meeting isn't there and 54 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 there's no notice of where it is. So that just was more contempt again for the Housing Authority. I tried to convince that person to come tonight, but he's very frustrated. Our frustration is in, one, in dealing with the voucher system. People are not treated humanely. We're advocates and we'll go with them. But they jump through every hoop that is asked of them. And even when we are given specific vouchers for disabled people, it will take us one to three years for that person to get the voucher simply because of incompetence, of lost files, of change of people that are working with us from PHA. And it is so outrageous for us. People become so frustrated. And things are so difficult for them. My comments are also that I've heard, you know, Mr. Greene say that the Housing Authority is not for the poor anymore, they're more interested in the middle class. There is nowhere left for poor people to go without vouchers and without conventional 55 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 housing. And yet it's almost impossible for us to try to get any of these programs. We try to work with people in the City and they're just as frustrated because Mr. Greene will not answer their phone calls either. So we have a situation where no one is getting their needs met in housing. And in a City where people are becoming more frustrated and actually go into shelters and come out and still have no housing. I mean, that's dehumanizing, and it needs to stop. I mean, we have had our issues that we've had to sue the Housing Authority to get more accessible housing and we have won that, but that's an ongoing issue that we always have to be making certain that what's being built is accessible, that's what's being built is affordable. And that's the next question. Things are not affordable for our population of people. And for disabled people, a majority are on a fixed income far, far below poverty level. They're not going to be able to afford most of the what the Housing Authority is building, you have to have 56 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 perfect credit. And I don't know a poor person who can have perfect credit to get into these houses. So even though we fight and we might get some more accessible housing, it's not affordable, so that becomes our other issue. So it's, as Habib have said, it's the shear frustration, and I think we've had enough of it. We're not alone anymore. There are numerous organizations all feeling the same thing. And we are the fourth largest Housing Authority and we all feel that we're one of the worst. There aren't human beings you can talk to -- when I find other housing authorities outside of the City of Philadelphia, it's amazing that there are people there and you actually can call them up and you actually know when you'll get your voucher. For us, I have no idea. There are no time frames for how long it takes to get a criminal check, for how long it takes to get intake, for after intake how long it takes to 57 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 actually get your package, after your package how long it takes before you get it inspected. There are no time, so it's just a guessing game and people are left hanging all the time, in domestic abuse situations and in every situation.
There used to be some resident councils that represented tenants in the project. Does that still exist?
Apparently it does exist. My only experience with resident councils is when we've gone into neighborhoods to check out the visitability or the accessibility of something, they've come up to us and said, "What are you doing here?" We look like, what do you mean what are we doing here? So that their eyes and ears are checking on what's going on and wanted to know why we were there. And we would explain why we were there and it was more of suspicion than of being interested in what we're fighting for, which is accessible, visitable housing. So that's my only experience with 58 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 that.
We will have the other participants give us their information and we'll have questions. Incidentally, Councilman Nutter joined us. He's going to try to join us later on again. But as you know, he's very dedicated and very hard-working and is involved in all sorts of issues on behalf of City Council. But he, like Councilwoman Blackwell and Councilman Rizzo and myself and others, are determined that we're going to work on PHA until the whole thing gets cleared up and it works in the right direction. Sir, go ahead.
I was just also answering that the resident council, the people that belong on the PHA resident council not all get paid $95,000 to be on the resident council and live there, so money buys everything. My name is Jimmy Schroed. I've been working with Disabled in Action. I've been working with people with disabilities who are 59 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 homeless since 1996. And in that time, I've seen the City of Philadelphia become colder, more callous and turn its back. Not that the City even had anything to give us in the first place, but now what we get in return has been coldness, more callous treatment and a bureaucracy that feels that it's above everybody else, that it doesn't have to answer to anyone. I was in a meeting with Carl Greene. This was the first time I met him, in 1999; it was August 9, 1999. I'll never forget the date. I came to meet with him to talk about recommendations that the Housing Crisis Committee had for PHA and other top officials in the City of Philadelphia. Around that time, DIA sued the Philadelphia Housing Authority and began to initiate a lawsuit, because out of 70,000-something scattered site units, they only had 28 available that were actually wheelchair accessible for disability. In the middle of this meeting, Carl Greene decided he was going to yell, holler and lecture me for something that I felt he took 60 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 this so personally and I couldn't understand it. And I thought we were in the age where people were actually professional and you realized I was suing an institution, not a private person. Well, you thought I was actually suing him personally and this was somehow a slam against him. In that same meeting, however, he would give 30 emergency Section 8 vouchers to the Housing Committee. Since the lawsuit had taken hold and everything, the retaliation we have gotten has been unrelenting day after day after day. It has taken almost now over four years just to give away 30 vouchers to people with disabilities who were already living on the edge in the first place. And in the City of Brotherly Love, that is inexcusable. What really gets me is that in the City of Philadelphia in the year 1776 a bunch of people decided that they were going to sever ties with a country whose tyranny and callousness had robbed people of liberty, justice and any worth of life. And now, in this same City, we are finding that we are 61 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 slowly returning back to people who are nothing more than tyrants, a cold and faceless bureaucracy and that the people of Philly, the poorest of the poor, are now being shunned and turned out into the streets, being treated like animals. And then after you've treated them like animals, you're blaming them for even being animals in the first place. (Applause.)
And the horror of it all is that it happens here in the place where liberty was born. And now liberty is being smothered in the very same cradle that it was given birth to.
Everything I've experienced with PHA during the course of these extensive hearings indicates that your assessment is very accurate. I would not be able to disagree. Even today, for example, the attorneys for the law firm, one of the most expensive law firms in Philadelphia, that represent PHA -- because the money it spends for things other than the welfare of its 62 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 occupants is limitless, it seems. They came to order testimony of this hearing so that in any event they believed that something or somebody misspoke or gave information that was harmful to PHA, PHA could deal, not with the problem represented by the person, but could seek to intimidate. At every stage of these hearings, efforts have been made to intimidate the Chairman of this Committee. I think that's because we're getting very close to the warm body that we have to discover so that we can correct the situation. And every time we get close, like to the terrible things that seem to be happening to the pension system -- of course, we don't know. PHA has had full opportunity to answer, but they try to evade every answer. But instead, they make threats. They threaten to sue our staff members, they threaten to sue me, they threaten everybody in their effort to maintain their total control and secrecy. And I tell you, it won't work. It didn't work in 1776, and it's not going to work in 2000 century. 63 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227
I'm going to enter into the record a number of letters later. Every time it looks as if maybe we're getting close to compelling PHA to meet its Constitutional requirement of being responsible to the people that it serves, PHA comes through with a new threat. I'm going to introduce the letters indicating that into the record so it will be available to everybody to see. I think what happens to ordinary people who have to live in PHA or, for that matter, work for PHA is very important. And PHA's conduct is often -- I can't think of any worse word than to say dreadful. It's absolutely unspeakable. But to see that conduct maintained against the disabled is really unbelievable in this century of civilization, that any agency cold be as cold-hearted as PHA is. For them to take this reprisal action against you that you have spoken about because of this lawsuit is an insult to every American procedure. 64 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 And you have every reason to be very angry. And keep on fighting because PHA must be brought in line with democratic functioning, or it's got to be replaced, one way or the other. We cannot have a PHA acting in the fashion it does as responsible only for itself, which means responsible to Carl Greene. Do you know that the pension system of PHA, every member of that Pension Board -- and it's supposedly worth many, many millions of dollars. Every member of that Pension Board is appointed by Carl Greene. Nobody else has a word to say as to who a member is. Nobody seems to know very much about who, in fact, spends the money of PHA's pension system or in what way it's spent. It keeps that secret. And now it's making the threat I referred to at the earlier part of the session in reducing that. So it's both the workers for PHA as well as those who live on its property that are being very unfairly and unjustly treated. To that end, we're going to continue working. 65 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 Sir, you've not been heard from yet.
Well, my two colleagues pretty much summed it up. It's just that people with disabilities have always -- you know, we've gotten kind of the short end of stick a lot of times.
And we're not going to go away. And Carl Greene may think he can get rid of us or try to fool us or whatever; it's not going to happen. We will stick it through and we will out last him. It could have been that he could have worked with us and we could have, you know, achieved the goals together; but that's really up to him. If he wants to work with us, he's more than welcome to; but it doesn't look like he's willing to do that. And we're not going to go away. That's all.
And the City Council has its own beef with Mr. Greene. Shortly after the testimony by the President 66 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 of the Fraternal Order of Housing Police, Carl Greene dismissed the President of that union. He made a very fine statement at a public hearing of this Committee attacking the many excesses and poor judgmental decisions and failures on the part of PHA. He was discharged on a case that the Fraternal Order of Police tells me has no merit whatever. Now, when Carl Greene does that, he is intimidating and seeking to prevent City Council from doing its work. And I have to tell you, as you've told me, that this City Council is never going to cease and desist until Carl Greene either leaves or behaves properly as the leader of an agency that services so many Philadelphians as far as housing is concern and as far as employment. So I think we're all embarked in a joint effort to bring sanity and realistic and sound treatment to Philadelphia citizens. (Applause.)
I want to thank this panel very much and call up a couple of other people. 67 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 Any questions from Committee Members?
I would just like to thank them. We've been struggling through trying to get some effective legislation that would help them City-wide. We've been trying to work with them, trying to get the developers and others to support even more accessible handicapped and to have their needs met. You know, it's our responsibility to keep hope alive and to help people, all of whom who work and/or reside in our City. And so it is our commitment that we're going to stick with it until we can do something. I mean, we work with all the agencies and do what we can in my district to get more housing, more and better, and certainly to try to serve their needs. But certainly with regard to this group and their commitment to help other disabled people, we really are, Councilman, trying to work with them, and we have been for sometime now, to come up with legislation that the City, that the 68 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 government, and that developers can support so that we can get it passed. So we thank you always for being there and always for speaking out for people in need. Thank you. (Applause.)
Thank you, Councilwoman. Are there any of these students who wish to be heard? What year are you in the at law school? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Second year.
We'll give you until your third year to be able to come up, all right? Thank you. Are you both from Liberty Resources? David Cornelson (ph) and Jeffery Toole (ph). Go ahead with your testimony.
My name is Jeffrey Toole. I work for Liberty Resources, the Center for Independent Living for Philadelphians with Disabilities. We provide advocacy and support services for people with 69 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 disabilities. Liberty Resources helps hundreds of persons with disabilities obtain housing, many through Section 8. Section 8 is not effectively serving people with disabilities. There's a lack of accessible housing and there's no listing for accessible housing. And PHA needs to be accountable to the City and its citizens and all people with disabilities. Thank you.
I'm David Cornelson. I'm a service coordinator at Liberty Resources. I'm fairly new to advocacy. I just wanted to give you a little bit of background. Before this, I worked as a social worker discharge planner at Moss Rehab. I had to leave after a period of time because I was in the position of doing discharge plans for people with spinal cord injuries where I was sending them to nursing homes because they didn't have the resources to go to live independently on their own, so I decided that 70 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 this really didn't fit the way I felt as far wanting to advocate my -- what we called them there was patients, using the medical model, to be able to live to the highest level of independent functioning that they could. I found that moving to Liberty Resources really met more with my disposition to advocate and to really push for people to live independent lives. What that means is not to be shuffled off to nursing homes, but to live in their own housing with attendant care services. However, finding attendants wasn't really the problem. One of the biggest problems was finding accessible homes for people, and finding, not only accessible, but homes that are affordable. So we have a double problem here of accessibility and affordability. I have been, I guess, somewhat of a privileged person in my lifetime. I became disabled 16 years ago. I had a spinal cord injury myself in an auto accident out in California after leaving Philadelphia. I thought I'd never come back to Philadelphia, 71 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 primarily because I found when I came back to visit my family here, Philadelphia was probably one of the most inaccessible places I had found in the United States, mostly because the infrastructure was so old and there probably wasn't the resources to make a lot of changes like there was in California. I've traveled around the world. I've peddled around the world, and I've seen much more accessible cities around the world except for those eastern European countries and a lot poorer countries. I found a lot more accessibility in other countries than I found here. Getting back to the point of accessible housing, however, now I'm in the position of having consumers that are ready to move into positions of being independent. They're hooked up with attendants, but I have people right now that are stuck in living in transitional living facilities and might be there for years before they can move out and live independent lives, truly independent lives, because they cannot get Section 8 72 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 vouchers. I have one consumer, for example, in West Philadelphia, he's been waiting for some time now. He's found apartments. He's had people hold the apartments for him, and they've had to give the apartments up to someone else that has the money to pay for them. This person now is 30 years old. He has never been able to live on his own, although he's been ready for sometime, primarily because he cannot find the housing. This is becoming a larger problem. We're at the point right now, we're beginning to have to build a waiting list for these kinds of services. And it's just, I think, unforgivable. I, myself, if I had the opportunity to move back out to California, I would do it on a dime. My family lives here and I've committed to stay here for some time, as difficult as it is. I came back here because my family is here. I would not have come back had I not been able to stand and get around out of my wheelchair a little bit because of 73 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 the problems that living in this City presents for me with a disability. You don't see people with disabilities out of the streets very much around here because it's so hard to get around here. You do in California all the time. As a result, people with disabilities on the streets in California are much more normal. It's much more normalized to see people with disabilities. It's not that way here.
If I just ask somebody for something around here, they're likely to hold out their hand and try to give me a quarter or a dime rather than respond to what I'm asking.
Mr. Cornelson, could I ask you to meet at some point with my staff in order to get a full picture of, say, the situation in California as compared to Philadelphia so that we can begin the process of specifically trying to follow California's leadership? You know, instead of dealing generally with the subject of California, and try to match and go ahead of them. We need very specific help. Would you be willing to participate with my staff in developing an 74 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 immediate program for Philadelphia to adopt?
Absolutely. Yes. Advocacy is something that's new to me. I didn't think that I would be moving in this direction at all when I came back to Philadelphia. When I first came back here, one of my first jobs was commuting by train into Philadelphia. And I started to run into a lot of problems not just with -- housing is new now that I've become an advocate here at Liberty Resources. But I used to get into a lot fights with SEPTA, for example.
Because I think your assessment of Philadelphia is totally accurate. While the Mayor talks about neighborhoods and improving life, he improves life for the rich people. He seems to believe that government exists to make the richer and to do nothing, despite his own background, his own history and activity, he seems to have left that field and instead is concentrating on developing the rich portions. Part of the rebuilding of downtown Philadelphia is to make disabled people invisible, to present 75 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 Philadelphia to the outside world as a City where nobody is disabled or nobody is poor so, therefore, you concentrate on rebuilding Center City and forget the neighborhoods. So there's a lot of talk about the neighborhoods, but very little is being done in the neighborhoods and very little is being done, say, for people that are disabled except to try to find some way of pretending they don't exist. And we've got to break through that, make clear that everybody knows they exist, that they have rights and that we've got to help everybody live independently wherever that's possible. So we look forward to your assistance in that program. I suggest you call my office, or before you leave today make sure you see Ellen Berkowitz or Jason Mayland. Make sure you get their phone number and make a date with them to come in and talk and give us a beginning of a program for Disabled in Action. Is there anything else you wish to add? 76 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227
Thank you. I know you could go on for hours because the injustice takes many hours to describe.
Well, I don't want my car to be towed. They've since changed that rule also for the handicapped placards in Pennsylvania.
Is there anyone else who wishes to be heard today? We took our program today and we changed it because we think always the needs of people in Philadelphia come first. Come forward to the microphone. Identify yourself, give your name and tell us.
Hi, my name is Patricia Baltimore. I'm not going to be personal, but I just wanted to say that I've been homeless for five years. I was homeless because I came into -- I went to Germany to 77 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 live with my daughter and I changed my mind after a year and a half. Before I left, I was in PHA. What happened is, when I left, they said that I didn't close my house up in the right way, which I did. I went over and gave them all this information. And come to find out when I come back to start over, I'm homeless. What happened is, I was on the waiting list for PHA and for Section 8 and I found out after waiting for two years that I owed a bill for a house that was not closed when I left the country. This was in 1998. The rug has pulled from under me so many times because of my situation from PHA. I've had so many horrible things which, like I said, I will not get personal right now. My thing is, because my problems I had in PHA where I only paid $62 a month, so how they let a house stay open so long that I now owe -- I found out about three months ago that I now owe $2,400 after I was paying $62 a month. The house was supposed to have been closed, but it was not closed. I was put into a shelter and I was told that I would be able to 78 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 get Section 8. They were saying the house was open then. I had no jurisdiction over it. But anyway, I went to Section 8 and asked them what was my status. And they told me that I was still on the list but they couldn't give me a time or whatever about where I was on the list. The bottom line is, after waiting three and a half years, they tell me that I'm not even qualified for Section 8 because my house was not closed in 1998 when I went to Germany. And what happened was I filed two lawsuits against OSHA Shelter because they threw away all my belongings which means I cannot proof that my house was closed down legally with me doing whatever I was supposed to do. I crossed my Ts and dotted by Is. It's just been a nightmare and I've been trying to get this PHA situation straightened out. I tried to show my passport or different documents to maybe show that I was not even in the country. Even if I was -- which I wasn't, I can prove -- how would they leave a house open? The rent is only $62. How long did they leave it open for me to have 79 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227 to owe them that much to get back into PHA. Like $62 and I owe $2,400 for a house that was open from -- it still may be open for $2400. So I just wanted to say that, but I've been through a lot. And like I said, some of them are personal that I maybe can handle myself. Trying to handle.
Thank you for coming forward and telling us about your problems. Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Certainly, we've not Ms. Baltimore for years; years ago, long before she went to Germany. She was our friend and one of the folks we worked with many, many years ago. And if she'll come back and visit us, we're temporarily in 319 since my office caught fire.
So we'll try to work with you to see what we can do to help you. 80 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227
Yes, they are; 30 and 28. It's like a life sentence because I'm told now that -- because I'm in the shelter now. I've been on and off living on the street, but I thank God he keeps reaching down and grabbing me, because what happened is they want to put me in a boarding home. I'm very highly functional, have a very good education. I am under mental health and diagnosis is major depression. And this definitely doesn't help. It doesn't mean I cannot read and cannot write, but I've been really -- I think you know. Like I said, I'm not being personal because I do have common sense. You understand? But it's been a little tough.
I'll follow-up with our staff. Give us a call tomorrow, Ms. Baltimore. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 81 11/20/03 - LAW & GOVERNMENT - 030227
The Committee will stand in recess until Thursday, December 5th, unless anybody wishes else to be heard who's here who has not spoken yet. It's the first Thursday in December. My staff is in disagreement with each other. One says it's the 4th, the other says it's the 5th. Whatever that Thursday is at 5 o'clock this hearing will resume. The current hearing is recessed until that date. The