civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - November 9, 2022

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Nov 9, 20226h 28m

Yes.

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The name is Holman Copeland.

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H-O-L-M-A-N-C-O-P-E-L-A-N-D.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Okay. Proceed.

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Thank you. Mr. Copeland, good morning.

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Good morning.

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Are you a neighbor of 2783 Roberts Avenue?

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Yes, I am.

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And where is your property located?

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I'm located in the rear of the property in question.

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And do you own a business there?

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Yes, I do.

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What's the name of your business?

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Cars or us collision.

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And how long have you been located there?

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About 35 years.

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Do you have any objection to the proposal that Ms. Martin has to have a special assembly license at that location?

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No.

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Thank you. I have nothing further.

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Okay.

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Ms. Nichols, I'm going to open it up to the board and the diverse audience.

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Did you have a chance to look at the documents that we sent you?

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Mr. Chair, yes.

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And may I respond to them?

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Do you want me to respond to them now?

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That's why I'm trying to figure out what you want to do with that one document.

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It's a kind of damaging document.

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Well, I would like to respond to it.

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Yeah, that's right.

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Okay.

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Yes.

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All right.

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So with regard to the incidents at 2783, what have been identified as Roberts Avenue,

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um these incidents appear to be out not even appear to be they're outside of the

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These incidents appear to be, not even appear to be, they're outside of the location. If you recall from the photographs, this is a long block of two properties. So for example, there's an incident from August 23rd, 2020, at 5.13 and 10 second AM, which says no premises info. And it's an investigation. It's on a Sunday.

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There's no specific, this could be someone just on the highway outside of the property

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and a radio call is made, the police get there and they're at that corner.

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The second incident is from August 30th, 2020 at 2.37 a.m.

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Again, it says highway, outside structure, vandalism, private property.

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Someone could have been trying to break into the property.

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This is again on a Sunday morning.

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um on august 30th 2020 at 5 49 p.m when the business is not open these all have so far been

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when the business is not open this is outside the structure it says other assaults simple

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on a sunday we don't have any information about what this was and at 5 49 p.m we don't know

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on a Sunday who was fighting at that time. And Ms. Martin has proposed to have her events from

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8 p.m. on the days she's asked permission from the board to have the variants until 2 a.m. But

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again, on August 30 of 2020, we don't know what this other simple assault. It could have been

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someone in a car who stopped on the highway somewhere and got into a fight outside or

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walking somewhere. On August 31st, the next day, on Monday morning at 4.30 a.m., it says

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no premises info, and this is a Monday of an investigation. We don't know what they were

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investigating. On August 31st, 2020, auto theft, outside destruction. Sounds like someone was

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trying to steal a car on a Monday morning at 4.40 a.m. On October 26, 2020, no premises info

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investigation on a Monday morning. November 15, 2020, no premises info investigation on a Sunday.

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On February 15th, 2021, no premises information, an investigation on a Monday.

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On June 9th, 2021 at 2.36 p.m., no premises information.

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It has a code here for what this particular response was.

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This is a Thursday.

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Without having any more identification of who, if anyone, the police spoke to, it is hard, in my opinion, looking at this to say that these were specifically related to 2783 Roberts, as opposed to the police just being given a radio call and responding.

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I was a former prosecutor for 22 years, Chair, and it's hard to know what these incidents are related to without having the actual 75-48 that specifically identifies what is anything.

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You even have the number right.

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Yes.

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So I hear you.

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Why don't we do this, right?

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There may be someone, I'm told, from the East Falls Zoning Committee.

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why don't we let them testify i think they're the ones that sent the document in

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but i i just want to make sure you saw the document before we got to that point okay

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yes okay all right so questions from the board first no mr chairman

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carol

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no mr chairman

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No, Mr. Chairman.

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Okay, all right.

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So, questions or comments from the virtual audience?

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Chair, we have Hillary Langer.

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Okay.

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Hi, could you state your name and spell for the court reporter, please?

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Hillary Langer.

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H-I-L-A-R-Y-L-A-N-G-E-R.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Proceed.

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Yes, thank you. We held the RCO meeting. The only neighbor in attendance was 2781 Roberts. The problem with the notifications is that it goes 250 feet. These are very large blocks.

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goes 250 feet. These are very large blocks so there's a group of about 150 homes

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in the 2600 block of Roberts Avenue that was not included or notified. That is beyond my control

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but just to let you know there are about 150 households approximately one block away.

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The issue for us when we were on the call which was the census of the zoning committee meeting

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was the the principal issue was that events were being held here without the assembly

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variants being granted. So that further backs up the

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kind of establishing the responsibility of the the use of the property. As far as the police

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reports are concerned that was what was made available to me and I think I could say that

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those would be incidents of the variety that Ms. Nichols describes but then that may not have

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in all the incidents, because quite often the police are not called and they don't make incident

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reports. So really, that's all we can say here. It was a meeting with negative input and

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our letter stands. Okay, thank you. Chair, can I just respond briefly?

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well what why don't why don't we wait to see if there's anyone else in the audience

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and then i'm going to give you a chance to respond to it all okay yes thank you all right okay is

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there anyone else in the virtual audience that has a comment chair we had mr copeland

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okay so mr copeland already testified right i'm not sure did he want to i i don't know if he

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wanted to say anything else i don't know why he raised his hand again it's up to you chair

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bring him back in a minute yep okay all right mr copen you've already been sworn you have

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additional comment sir please unmute yourself yes you have additional comment well no additional

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comment uh i was listening to counsel um from from miss martin and uh i agree with counsel

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for miss martin there in regards to the the leverage amount of parking that we have here

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and uh also agree uh with counsel for miss martin uh that these events i've never even seen one of

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events because my hours of operation is 8 a.m. in the morning to sometimes 5 o'clock and again

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like I said I've never seen the gathering because the gathering is held when the businesses are

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closed we're never here. Okay thank you very much for calling back in. Is there anyone else in the

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virtual audience? I see no hands, Chair. Ms. Nichols, you want to respond? Yes, Chair. Ms. Bernstein,

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I'll give you a chance to respond when she's done. Thank you. Thank you so much, Chair. What we

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didn't hear was that there were calls made by the neighbor at 2781 Roberts about any of the issues

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that they have raised. I didn't go into the second page of the police reports. I can, which is

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essentially the same as the first page. These are instances that, in my opinion, from viewing them

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are all outside of this property that are between the hours of at least 2 a.m. to 6 a.m.

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And they all speak to mostly outside the structure, which, in my opinion, without having the 75-48 to show exactly who they spoke to and what the circumstances were, cannot be directly tied to 2783.

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As I stated, it could possibly, not even possibly, these are incidents that were outside.

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Who these people are, we don't know.

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So I think it's a little unfair for them to bring these incidents up, specifically trying to connect them to Ms. Martin without any other information.

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Mr. Langer spoke to some other additional houses.

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Well, we notified based upon the list that was provided to us who should be notified.

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who should be notified. We don't have any control over who specifically should be notified. So again,

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We don't have any control over who.

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I think it's a little unfair to try and expand who should be notified. If we were supposed to,

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we would have. We followed that process. But Chair, Ms. Martin is a 30-year business owner

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with experience, and we have provided a proviso that we believe will address the concerns

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You know, with regard to why she should be able to have a special assembly license, as we stated, these events are private, they would be operated between hours of 8pm to 2am. This is economically the least minimum that she can afford with regard to this property. And there's no reason that we believe she should be denied.

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I mean, if there's some other basis that they have, again, we've addressed it.

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So I really appreciate the board listening to our presentation, and thank you.

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All right, thank you.

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Ms. Bernstein, do you want to give us a...

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Yes, thank you.

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Just quickly, and in some ways, Ms. Nichols is totally right.

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We don't know for sure what these police incidents are related to,

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But we do know that from surveillance cameras that are on 2781, that the prior parties did continue past 2 a.m. into the morning when the tenant arrived, that there was a lot of behavior that was indecent, such as yarn eating on their property, that happened outside.

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And so the concern, again, is that if this use were to be permitted, that it would result in kind of this inappropriate behavior that leads to litter and safety issues outside of 2781, even outside of these limited hours that they're agreeing to, that it would be very difficult for them to kind of curb the behaviors past 2 a.m.

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if they didn't have security guards there after that time, things of that nature that would be

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concerning. Additionally, Ms. Martin has mentioned that she, you know, operates a union business.

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This is an industrial area. She hasn't explained any sort of hardship as to why this property can't

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continue to be used in a way that is compliant with the current zoning laws and why this new

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type of use needs to go into this location in a way that, you know, continuously has created

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safety concerns, maintenance, management, you know, other types of concerns for the neighboring

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property and the fact that they need to go and clean up in the morning that the tenant arrives

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and, you know, has to deal with kind of patrons that have been partying all night and things of

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those behavior. But to the extent that you guys feel that this is an appropriate use for this

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area, we do ask that the provisos that were placed and that were discussed be the bare minimum

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of what would be attached to this use so that there would be some type of enforcement mechanism

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to kind of potentially address any kind of issues that take place going forward.

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Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Clark.

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Chair, Ms. Bernstein, did your client ever call the police when you stated that they observed what you said they observed?

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So my client has a tenant that uses this property, and I'm not aware if they have actually called the police.

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Their concerns, again, have been about the parking on the sidewalk, the kind of behavior that they've seen on the surveillance, the people that they encounter when they arrive, the litter that is kind of covering their property, and they have been contacted by the police in connection with a shooting incident.

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So, again, we weren't aware of a lot of the others, but there does appear to be kind of repeated concerns and activity, you know, police coming, and I don't believe that they're the ones calling, but I don't know.

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My understanding is that they were contacted in connection with the investigation, not that they, you know, reported it.

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but again chair my point to these investigations they're not directly tied to 2783 yet they're

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trying to make it seem as if they are that's my point i know you get it i appreciate it i hear you

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i hear you and i said i think council bernstein did say that they're you know outside or whatever

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it is okay planning commission thank you chair bergman in hegarty for the philadelphia city

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planning commission board members in 2015 the zoning map was amended in this general area

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this parcel remained i2 medium industrial to support an industrial retention goal

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The North District Plan, part of the Comprehensive Plan, which was adopted in 2017, reinforced this industrial retention goal by recommending that this block remain I-2.

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the north district plan part of the comprehensive plan which was adopted in 2017 reinforced

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Now, while this structure has a history of non-industrial use, it has never had an assembly and entertainment use.

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We don't believe the appellant has demonstrated that there are no other viable uses in this space that would be allowed under the existing zoning.

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And so the City Planning Commission recommends that the board deny this variance.

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Thank you.

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And thank both counsel for your presentations.

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So MI 2021-001-753-2783, Roberts Avenue.

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I vote yes with provisos.

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Hours of operation, Thursday, Saturday, closed, 8 p.m. to 2 a.m.

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On from the, I'm sorry, Thursday to Saturday, 8 p.m. to 2 a.m.

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Sunday to Wednesday close

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all vents inside building

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commercial trash pickup

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and temporary variants to be issued

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from

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12-1-22

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to 12-1-24

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for two years.

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Harold Tenere, my vote is yes

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with provisos.

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Thomas Holloman, my vote is yes

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with provisos.

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Sorry about that.

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I was trying to get on there.

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uh chairman uh james snell yes for proviso yes we're providing thank thank both you um okay

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thank you thank you is there anyone in the virtual audience whose case is now been closed

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i see no hands chair thanks everyone see everybody at two o'clock okay okay thank you everybody

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Good afternoon, my name is Bill Bergman, and I will be chairing this afternoon's EBA hearings.

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With me is Carol Tenere, our Vice Chair.

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Present, Mr. Chair.

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Ismail Shahid, our Board Secretary.

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Present, Mr. Chairman.

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Thomas Holliman, our board member.

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Present, Mr. Chairman.

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And James Snell, our board member.

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Present, Mr. Chairman.

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All right.

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Also present is our board attorney, Hillary Emerson, and Lakeisha Dandy, our ZVA hearing

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supervisor.

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Before we begin, here is our virtual format.

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