COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING AND PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE ON STREETS AND SERVICES - - - Room 400 City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, May 16, 2000 1:30 a.m. - - - BILL 000121 - (Held.) Granting permission to Cavalier Telephone to construct, maintain, and operate a telecommunications system. . . BILL 000166 - Regulating the location, size, operation, and maintenance of newsstands on the public sidewalk. . . BILL 000183 - Authorizing Gino DeJesse to construct and maintain various encroachments. . . BILL 000213 - Authorizing the revision of lines and grades on a portion of City Plan No. 187 by striking from the City Plan and vacating the legally open portions of Belgrade Street. . . BILL 000218 - (Held.) Granting permission to Columbia Transmission Communications to construct, maintain, and operate, replace and remove a telecommunications system. . . BILL 000220 - Held at request of sponsor. BILL 000259 - Granting permission to Chestnut Hill Academy to construct, use, and maintain one water distribution line. . . BILL 000262 - Authorizing Whole Foods Market Group, Inc. to construct and maintain various encroachments. . . BILL 000263 - Granting permission to Girish Sanghvi, owner of newsstand, to construct, use, and maintain electrical service. . . PRESENT: COUNCILMAN FRANK DICICCO, Chairman COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN, Vice Chair COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 I N D E X Page Bill 000183 * Nancy Sen, Engineering Supervisor, Streets Bill 000213 * Paul Lonie, Survey Bureau Manager, Streets Bill 000259 * Nancy Sen, Engineering Supervisor, Streets Margaret Conver, Business Manager. . . . . . . Chestnut Hill Academy Bill 000262 * Nancy Sen, Engineering Supervisor, Streets Bill 000263 * Nancy Sen, Engineering Supervisor, Streets 12 Bill 000166 John Rocco, Chairman, Newsstand Association. . 23 13 Steven Peterscheim, USA Today. . . . . . . . . 26 Earl Rogers, Newsstand Operator. . . . . . . . 45 Howard Berman, Board Member, Newsstand Assoc. 51 Bill 000218 * John Cunningham, Right-of-Way Mgr, Streets 53 Robert Rockwood, General Manager . . . . . . . 55 Columbia Transmission Communications Steven Hire, Telecommunications Consultant . . 58 Columbia Transcom Christopher Boyle, Counsel, CTC. . . . . . . . 80 Bill 000121 * John Cunningham Right-of-Way Mgr., Streets 90 * Martin Arias, Director of Bus. Development 92 Cavalier Telephone John Young, Director of Sales, Cavalier. . . . 94 Dave Heffline, Chief Engineer, Cavalier. . . . 101 Harry Foy, Electricians Union, Local 98. . . . 182 (*- Also submitted attached written testimony.) Written Testimony Only (Attached.) Edward Neilson, Treasurer, Local Union 98 IBEW 3 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000183 P R O C E E D I N G S
Good afternoon, everyone. Before I officially open up these hearings, I just want everyone in the room to know that we will go out of order on the bills in front of us today because we want to deal with -- there are two or three bills that will require, I believe, a little bit more testimony than the other bills, so we will take those bills that are Streets Department bills on some encroachment -- I think there's one that has to do with an encroachment, which is a Streets Department bill 15 also. I don't suspect there'll be that much testimony except from the Department itself, and that will make things move much more quickly because we have a lot of City employees in here who can't wait to get back to work. And before we begin, I do want to apologize to those folks who are representative of the Newsstand Association and all of the folks affiliated with them for the confusion as to whether or not this hearing was going to be held today or not. I had been holding out up until 4 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000183 later yesterday 'cause I thought I would have some new amendments to offer to the bill, both from the Managing Director's Office and from the advertising industry folks that may have been helpful for Council in this committee during its deliberations on newsstand legislation. So because of that, there was a miscommunication on my part. I take full responsibility for that and I apologize for any inconvenience to the folks in the association or affiliated with it and also to my colleagues. So I apologize and I take full responsibility for that. That being said, I'd like to open up the public hearings on the Committee of Streets and Services. In attendance with me today are, to my extreme left, Councilmember Rizzo, Councilmember Goode, Councilmember Cohen; and to my right somewhere was Councilmember Clarke -- here he comes now. We have a quorum of five that is necessary for this hearing to proceed. The clerk will read the title of the first bill.
Bill No. 183, an ordinance 25 authorizing Gino DeJesse, owner of the property 5 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000183 1824 East Passyunk Avenue, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 19147, to construct and maintain various encroachments onto and over the east footway of 13th Street and the north footway of Passyunk Avenue adjacent to the property 1824 East Passyunk Avenue, all under certain terms and conditions.
Good afternoon, Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Nancy Sen. I'm an engineering supervisor for the Streets Department, and I'm here to testify on Bill No. 13 000183 on behalf of the Department. This bill authorizes Gino DeJesse, owner of the property 1824 East Passyunk Avenue, to construct and maintain the following encroachments: on the footways adjacent to 1824 East Passyunk Avenue; a fenced-in area for a Dumpster encroaching approximately 4 feet onto the east footway of 13 Street, leaving approximately 8 feet of unobstructed footway on 13th Street; and an electrified vestibule encroaching approximately 4 feet onto the north footway of Passyunk Avenue, leaving approximately 8 feet of unobstructed footway on Passyunk Avenue. 6 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000213 The Streets Department has reviewed the plans for these encroachments and has no 4 objections to the passage of this bill.
Thank you. Are there any other questions for this witness from the committee? (No questions.)
Is there anyone else here who wishes to testify for or against this bill? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill No. 213, an ordinance 16 amending Section 2 of an ordinance (Bill No. 17 980547) approved December 15, 1998 authorizing the revision of lines and grades on a portion of City Plan No. 187 by striking from the City Plan and vacating the legally open portions of Belgrade Street from Butler Street to Castor Avenue, under certain terms and conditions, by extending the time for compliance with the conditions stated therein.
Good afternoon, 7 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000213 Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Paul Lonie, Survey Bureau Manager with the Department of Streets, and the Department of Streets would like to offer the following testimony on Bill No. 000213: This is not an administration ordinance 8 but an ordinance requested by Mr. Leo M. Garonski & Associates, P.C., of 2700 East Butler Street, Philadelphia. The purpose of this ordinance is to extend the time period to legally close Belgrade Street to facilitate commercial expansion in the area. This ordinance is supported by the Department of Streets and is recommended to your committee for favorable action.
Thank you. Are there any other questions for this witness from the committee? (No questions.)
Is there anyone else here who wishes to testify for or against this bill? (No response.)
Hearing none -- 8 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000220
Excuse me. Did you want to testify? UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: No. 7
Okay. The clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill No. 220, an ordinance 13 amending Section 12-2409 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Towing Zone Location and Hours," by adding as a towing zone location the north and south sides of Green Street between 11th Street and 12th Street, under certain terms and conditions.
And there's no one here to testify? Councilmember Clarke, Bill No. 220, there's no one here to testify. Do you have any comments? It's your bill.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to hold that bill at this 9 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000259 point.
So noted. The clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill No. 259, an ordinance 7 granting permission to Chestnut Hill Academy, 500 Willow Grove Avenue, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 19118, to construct, use, and maintain one water distribution line, one sleeve with two telecommunication conduits, and one spare sleeve under and across Willow Grove Avenue east of Cherokee Street, all under certain terms and conditions.
Committee, my name is Nancy Sen, and again, I'm here to testify on Bill No. 17 000259 on behalf of the Streets Department. This bill grants permission to Chestnut Hill Academy to construct, use, and maintain underground water, phone, and spare conduit lines under and across the entire Willow Grove Avenue right-of-way at a point located approximately 460 feet east of Cherokee Street for the purpose of serving their playing fields across from the school building. 10 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000259 The Streets Department has reviewed the construction plans for this project and has no 4 objection to the passage of the bill.
Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good afternoon, Committee. My name is Margaret Conver (ph), and I'm the Business Manager from Chestnut Hill Academy, and I'm here to speak in favor of our ability to be able to water across to be able to water our playing fields. The playing fields are used by many members, and at the present time, we don't have any efficient way of being able to water them.
Okay. Thank you. Are there any questions for these witnesses? Councilmember Cohen?
To the person from the Chestnut Hill Academy. What is the purpose of this bill?
The purpose of the bill is to be able to run a water line and electric and other conduit lines connecting the two sides of 11 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000259 our campus across -- underneath Willow Grove Avenue so that we can run water from the main water pit out to a water pit in the middle of the field to be able to water our two soccer fields.
So the whole purpose of the bill deals with the question of making water available where it's not now available?
Thank you. And, apparently, that's the requirement that Chestnut Hill Academy undertake that work?
Does the City pay for the work or does the Academy have to pay for the work?
Thank you. Are there any other questions for this witness from the committee? (No questions.)
Thank you. The 12 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000262 budget of the City of Philadelphia thanks you too. (Laughter.)
The clerk will read the title of the next bill. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony.
Bill No. 262, an ordinance 9 authorizing Whole Foods Market Group, Incorporated, tenant of the property located at 929 South Street, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 19147, to construct and maintain various encroachments in and on the north footway of South Street and the east footway of Tenth Street adjacent to the property 929 South Street, all under certain terms and conditions.
Once again, my name is Nancy Sen. I'm here to testify on behalf of the Streets Department for Bill No. 262. This bill authorizes Whole Foods market Group, Incorporated, tenants of the property located at 929 South Street, to construct and maintain the following encroachments on the public right-of-ways surrounding the Fresh Fields Supermarket now being developed: seven brick- 13 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000262 faced planters on the north footway of South Street, two brick-faced planters on the east footway of Tenth Street, three metal bike racks on the north footway of South Street, and a metal pipe bollard located in the east footway of Ninth Street near Rodman Street. The Streets Department has reviewed the construction plans for this project and has no 10 objection to the passage of this bill.
Thank you. Do you happen to know whether or not -- I don't know if Mr. Rocco can answer this, but is there have any intention on the part of the owners of this newsstand to. . . I'm sorry, this is Fresh Fields, I apologize. I jumped ahead, apologize. Are there any other questions for this witness from the committee? (No questions.)
Is there anyone else here who wishes to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill. 14 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000263
Bill No. 263, an ordinance 3 granting permission to Girish P. Sanghvi, the owner of the newsstand located on the northwest corner of Tenth and Market Streets, to construct, use, and maintain an electrical conduit and an electrical service line and a fiber optic conduit and telephone service line in and under the public rights-of-way Tenth Street and Market Street for the purpose of supplying electrical service and telephone service to his newsstand, under certain terms and conditions.
Again, my name's Nancy Sen and I'm here to testify for Bill No. 263 on behalf of the Streets Department. This bill grants permission to Girish Sanghvi, owner of the newsstand located on the northwest corner of Tenth and Market Streets to construct, use, and maintain an electrical conduit and electrical service line and a fiber optic conduit and telephone service line in and under the public rights-of-way of Tenth and Market Streets for the purpose of supplying electrical service and telephone service to his newsstand the. 15 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000263 The Streets Department has reviewed the construction plans for this project and has no 4 objection to the passage of the bill.
Thank you. Since I've been involved in newsstand legislation for the better part of a year and a half, I know one of the questions or concerns that was recently related to me had to do with some locations in the City where over the years we have allowed newsstands to be installed but within, I think it's feet or something, from the traffic 13 signals. There's some restrictions on that. Are 14 you familiar with that? 15
Traffic signals? I'm not 16 familiar with that, but I'm sure the Code 17 addresses that. I'm not exactly. . . 18
24 feet, okay. I 19 didn't know if you were more familiar with that. 20 I'll ask the question.
I'm not sure of the number, but I believe there is a number quoted in either the regulations or the Code.
And, obviously, this would comply with that. 16 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000263
All right. Because there are certain intersections where, obviously, they're out of compliance --
-- for one reason or another. I'm not sure how that happened, but it did.
Yeah. This particular site has been existence, and they were just looking to upgrade to get the service.
Okay. But, again, I know there's some existing newsstands that they may want to upgrade. But they may not necessarily be within compliance as to the distance from the traffic device and the intersection.
And before we do the conduit installation, sometimes we may have to move them, and I want to make sure that if we do it this time, it's done right, whether it means being moved one way or the other a few feet.
Oh, most definitely. And I believe the good work that you did with a lot of 17 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000263 departments in the City to try to, you know, get the new legislation for the newsstand pretty much handles everything, that all the street furniture that you'll find that surrounds the newsstand, and surely, if there's anything that isn't addressed, the regulations will surely address them.
In reference to a fiber optic conduit service telephone line, is that something new?
I believe it's actually to run the lottery machines because they have to connect with a server at Harrisburg, so anyone who has a lottery machine has to have a phone hookup to. . .
Yes. That's what they're putting this in, to have a lottery hookup. 18 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000263
Is it a given -- and maybe you can refresh my memory. Every newsstand isn't eligible, because I remember we did pedestrian studies. Is every newsstand able today to have a lottery machine if they chose to?
The Streets Department only deals with okaying or making sure that the connection is constructed properly and doesn't interfere with any other utilities. I believe if you are applying for a lottery machine, you probably have to go through the State to first get permission. We don't get involved with that -- just the connection.
I think maybe I can clear that up. We -- from time to time, Council, on this type of legislation, had to deal with electrification, and in those locations where Council, the District Councilperson, or the committee was of the opinion that a lottery would not be beneficial to that intersection, we have 19 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000263 the right to put a proviso in there saying electrification without lottery. I mean, we can approve the electrification of it but a proviso that would prohibit a lottery from being installed. And that's what we've done in and around Broad Street, on the Avenue of the Arts, where they don't want lottery sales -- or any new lottery sales.
So I guess for the record, anyone that gets electrification, that's a prerequisite to get a lottery machine? In other words, anyone today that has electrification can get a lottery machine even if it would impede the flow of traffic at a particular intersection?
I think if they're electrified, they probably -- they'd have to still obviously get approval from the Lottery Commission whether sales -- but you're -- what I'm dealing with -- what I'm suggesting is new electrification. If the stand is not electrified today and they come before us for electrification, 20 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000263 then we have to make the decision whether or not we want that stand to be able to sell lottery tickets or not.
Mr. Chairman, in my involvement with the lotteries and newsstands, there was also a certain criteria associated with Harrisburg on the location. It has to do with the level of pedestrian traffic, the ability to sell a certain number of lottery tickets. I think initially they give these -- I forget the exact -- what you call them, but prior to you actually getting the actual lottery, there's these ticket sales that you just, you know, immediate payment. And then if you get a number of those sold out of that location, you then can qualify for the actual lottery machine. So there's a -- that criteria is regulated by Harrisburg.
But I also recollect that even though it would be a good location for a 21 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000263 lottery machine, that it was too good a location for the space available and there were some concerns --
-- about pedestrian foot traffic. I mean, the lottery people weren't concerned about the lines and the blockage of the sidewalk. So I guess there's two issues.
One, yes, it qualifies for a lottery machine, but then does it create a situation that blocks the sidewalk? And I remember -- I think we struggled with that around Fifth and Walnut or Fifth and Chestnut, where there was a --
Fourth and Chestnut. And then there was also an issue that if a person got electrification, that they -- automatically that did not include telecommunications.
There are a lot more newsstands in the inventory that have just electrification but they need that phone hookup to get the lottery. And the process is that the person who wants -- because the previous Newsstand Code -- I'm sorry, the new Newsstand Code that is being acted on by Council now includes a proviso that no 10 electric or telephone hookups can happen without the permission of Council. So the procedure is that the newsstand owner comes to Streets to get their location okayed, and we need to see a letter of sponsorship from the Councilperson in that district, and that would pretty much cover if the Council felt that it wasn't a good location for that.
So the Streets Department will continue to provide technical support to advise Council if a person at a newsstand location, let's say, wanted it electrified but they're not equipped with telecommunications but wanted a lottery machine. And part of the responsibility of the Streets Department or L&I -- I'm not sure who it would be 23 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000263 -- would be to determine whether there would be anything impeding the flow of pedestrian traffic. So you're telling me that that -- who's responsibility would that be?
That would lie with Streets. We would make sure that there's enough passage. Our policy is to have at least six feet clear for passage around the -- past the newsstand. And we also look at the street furniture right beside the newsstand that might affect queueing up, you know, to buy the lottery.
I suggest that someone go to the southeast corner of Broad and Chestnut today and look at all of the honor boxes that are surrounding -- or to the left of the newsstand that are surrounding the trash can. It's incredible. You can't see the trash can, it's a mess out there. But I would appreciate someone -- I was going to call your office today to see if someone could go out and check that situation now. It's a very hazardous situation. Are there any other questions for this witness? 24 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 (No further questions.)
Is there anyone else here who wishes to testify? (No response.)
Hearing none, the clerk will read the title of the next bill.
Bill No. 166, which was continued previously, amending Chapter 9-200 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Commercial Activities on Streets," by adding a new section 12 regulating the location, size, operation, and maintenance of newsstands on the public sidewalk; and by making conforming amendments to other sections of the Chapter, all under certain terms and conditions. Witnesses come forward.)
Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice Chairman, members of the committee, and members of the Newsstand Association and its supporters, when we initiated this project --
Yes. My name is John Rocco, the Chairperson of the Association. This 25 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 is Howard Berman, one of our Executive Council members, Steve Peterscheim (ph.) from USA Today, Mr. Rogers, one of our Executive Council members. And this is Aaron Sommers, who's one of our architects. When we initiated this project in February of '99, our goal was to build the most attractive and the most functional newsstands that the City ever seen. We believe on December 18th of '99, we proudly presented our two prototypes, and we feel as though we achieved our goal. We hope that this committee will look favorably on our request to improve the working conditions of the newsstand operator and to improve the streetscape throughout the City at no cost to the taxpayers. On behalf of the Newsstand Association, we wish to thank all the City agencies that worked with us on this project. We also would like to express our gratitude to Councilman DiCicco for all his efforts, and we wish to thank the committee for its time here today. Steven? Steven.
Yeah, Steve 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 Peterscheim with USA Today newspaper. We're just here 'cause we wanted to mention -- I wanted to mention that USA Today has been a partial sponsor of this project with the Newsstand Association, and in prior meetings, there has been a lot of discussion about commercial advertising.
Steve could you get a little closer to the microphone.
There's been a lot of discussion about commercial advertising. And what we are here to basically say is that it is possible to get this program started without commercial advertising. John Rocco has told us, and we have confidence -- he has a partial sponsorship from us as well as some other publishers, and then along with individual contributions from the actual newsstand owner, they have the ability to put out 20 newsstands in time for the Republican National Convention. And I just wanted to be here today to 27 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 say that -- to ask Council to take a look at this bill. If advertising is an issue, commercial advertising is an issue, if we can hold that back, keep discussing that, and working through the Managing Director's Office to put a plan together to solidify commercial advertising, but until that's done, we can still put out newsstands 9 and get 'em on the street and get the street 10 corners cleaned up. 11 So if we could possibly see to it to 12 consider this amendment without the -- or consider 13 the bill without the amendment for advertising, we 14 would highly recommend it at this point in time. 15
Could you just 16 describe the location, or locations, where the -- 17 where you are initially willing to install these 18 stands. 19
When we first began 20 talking about it, John had came to us at USA Today and he first asked us to pay for the newsstands. And we just -- as a company, we're not willing to pay the whole cost for the newsstands, so that is why he then began looking to other publishers, and eventually commercial advertising came in because 28 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 that was really the way to get the newsstand owner a free newsstand, was to use to commercial advertising; otherwise, he's going to have to pay a little bit. So initially, the publishers of USA Today in general -- I can't really speak for the other publishers involved, but we look at -- the locations that we want to sponsor are solely based on volume of sales, and where we sell the most newspapers is in Center City. So the initial locations we looked at were in Center City; those were the ones we wanted to sponsor. Those happened also to be the locations -- but, of course, it wasn't all the locations in Center City because, still, some of the newsstand owners in Center City could not afford their contribution. So we initially came up with a list. John Rocco, the Association, New York Times, and USA Today agreed on a list of 16 newsstands where we were willing to put up our sponsorship and the owner had the money to make his contribution. Those were in the Center City area; I don't know the locations off the top of my head and you'll have to excuse me 'cause I didn't bring the list 29 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 with me.
I'm a little bit confused. You said there were newsstand 10 operators that were prepared to pay all or a part 11 of -- 12
A part, a part of the 13 contribution. USA Today and the New York Times 14 was going to help subsidize the payment for the 15 newsstand; we were going to pay a portion of it. 16
And would that have made it unnecessary to consider commercial advertising?
At that point, yes. They -- the newsstand would have been on the street, so they wouldn't have needed commercial advertising. The commercial advertising was to come in, they were going to put the commercial on those stands, you know, get the first stands out on the street, with the hope that the Association 30 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 could get approval for commercial advertising. And the way that we understood that it was going to work was that the Association would collect the funds from the commercial advertising and distribute that equally among the members so that the guy at, you know, Fifth and Market would make the same money on advertising as the guy at, you know, Fifth and Spring Garden, or whatever. And that money was going to use -- the Association would keep a portion of that and that money would then be used to help subsidize people who could not afford the newsstands and who the publishers were not interested in subsidizing. So it was a way to bring in cash flow so that other newsstands could be built. That's really where commercial advertising came in. For USA Today New, the York Times in the beginning, we just wanted to put some newsstands in Center City, and we wanted to see 'em there for the Republican Convention.
Well, I'm one of the Councilmembers that are very much conflicted about this issue. I've been very supportive of the newsstands. I think the design is great, I think 31 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 the concept -- some form of uniformity is good, it clears up a lot of old stands. But I -- I have great difficulty in accepting the notion of commercial advertising and dealing with the question of content 'cause I think -- I think it ought to be done without having to advertise everything. You know, I think maybe businesses in general ought to pay more taxes so that they don't have to do the advertising to collect the funding. I know the Newsstand Association has done a great job on behalf of the members and on behalf of the City in what they've done, but'm hoping that this can be worked out in some way without being involved in advertising beyond the advertising of the publications that are for sale.
Mm-hmm, and that's what we would like to see as well. I mean, we are not necessarily -- though we're not in disfavor of commercial advertising, we're really not concerned with commercial advertising, USA Today. It would be better for us, I guess -- I mean, if there was no commercial advertising, that would be fine for us. 32 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 But the bottom line is if you want -- the issue was that these stands -- Councilman DiCicco's main concern in the very beginning was, are these going to be everywhere? You know, there's what, 200, 150 newsstands in this City, can we get them on every street corner? Well to ask me that question, USA Today is not going to sponsor a newsstand on every street corner; we're just not willing to do that.
Not profitable enough for us and we just weren't interested in going to that level. Like I said, it's based on volume, it's where we can really justify our ROI and all of that kind of good stuff. So in order to get them on every street corner, the best avenue that John could find was through commercial advertising, that was really the only way to get these to the people who couldn't afford them. And so that's where commercial advertising came into play. 33 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 So -- and this is why we're kind of here today. If commercial advertising is that much of an issue and it needs that much more discussion --
A question of affordability. Every business has to start with some capital. Very few businessmen in the beginning have enough capital to put money forward to, you know, to put in entirely the whole capital, so they arrange to borrow it to pay it over time. Why is this business situation different from all other business situations, which require -- you know, the amount is a substantial amount, but spread over 10 or 20 years, you know, it becomes, I think, manageable by a business, in the same fashion as any other business, and spare the City the spread of advertising. People have a right to see a nice city, without always having flaunted in front of them the sale of some item or other. And in 34 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 consideration of the whole city, I think advertising ought not to be forced upon people. And when you're walking and there's a sign there, it's forced upon you, just like a billboard is forced upon. You and I don't think the people of Philadelphia ought to have to, when they walk downtown, see all this advertising. I think they ought to enjoy the stores, they ought to enjoy whatever else exists. And that's basically the reason: from an environmental point of view, from an anesthetic point of view, I don't think it helps the City to have paid advertising all over. And I haven't understood why you say they can't afford it. I know almost nobody can afford the lump sum immediately, you know, to pay in full.
I asked that same question of John Rocco many times. Us as a business, we completely understand that, and, you know, these are business people. That is not a question that I can answer. Like I say, as far as commercial advertising goes, USA Today is not necessarily a 35 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 proponent of commercial advertising. We just want to see newsstands on the street; we'd like to see them there however possible. You know, we want to sell newspapers; that's really all we want to do. We can sell more newspapers at a nice, attractive location. Maybe John wants to talk a little bit about the financial situation.
Councilman, thanks for your kind words in the beginning there, we appreciate that. There are a lot of men and women who are in this business who simply cannot afford to put out the sum of money that will required for a metal stand. Wood, maybe, yes; metal, no. We have a member here, Mr. Rogers, who can attest to that, and we're trying to help Mr. Rogers and many of our members who are trying to move forward with their lives, who maybe are just starting out or have had a bad time of it. They go into the newsstand business as a beginning point, as a start-off point. Many of 'em don't have the ability to secure loans or many of 'em don't have acquire the resources 36 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 necessary. For this particular type of project, half of our membership cannot accrue the amount of money that is required. And I think Mr. Rogers can say a few words in reference to that. Earl?
Excuse me, before you begin, is there any additional compensation that the newsstand owner or operator benefits from the lottery sale, other than the volume of tickets or the percentage on the sale? As an example, Councilman Cohen speaks to advertising, and he and I obviously have a major difference here; with a lot of respect for each other, we do have a difference. When you see some of the stands that are out there today and you have a 4-by-8 Pennsylvania lottery sign on a newsstand, you're not -- correct me if I'm wrong, is there any fee or compensation for the advertising of the lottery to that newsstand operator?
So the only benefit they get is if you sell the lottery tickets, you get whatever percentage of your 37 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 sales.
So, in effect, you're advertising for the lottery but you're not getting compensation for it.
Well, Mr. Chairman, I'd say, respectfully, it's part of the contract of the lottery.
So that you are paying -- you know, there is compensation in the form of these commissions that the State Lottery Commission arranges for.
But I guess my point I'm trying to make is that if you didn't have some form of advertising for a lottery at that newsstand, most people would continue on their way until they saw some billboard or something that indicates lottery tickets are for sale at that particular location.
And I think what we're attempting to do here is to do it in a much more tasteful manner in which it is less offensive to the visual effect enhancements or the visual esthetics of the streetscape, while -- because advertising -- we can argue back and forth whether it's necessary. I mean, there are some times -- I think it has to be necessary because I don't think you would see companies and corporations paying so much money to advertise if it didn't mean that that would create more business for. So them what we're trying to say is, yeah, okay, if you want to advertise, fine, but we want some compensation for it.
And that's where the compensation goes directly to -- these are little business people in terms of what their investments are, and these are people who -- I mean, they have a lot of conditions they have to deal with, with the elements; some days the 39 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 weather's bad and people don't come out and buy a newspaper. So this helps them create a better working environment for themselves, and I think it lends to the streetscape, an improvement of the streetscape. At the same time, they're advertising on a stand that certain types of advertising is permitted anyway, but they really can't drive any financial benefit from it.
This debate is not sponsored by any agency. (Laughter.)
But let me just say very briefly that my position is that the finest kind of streetscape is the absence of advertising, that that's the greatest contribution advertising can make is by not being present. There's no way in the world that City Council can do anything about the lotteries; we have no power. If we had power, I would be opposed to the lottery advertising, but you don't help the situation by adding to it. And that's simply -- I'm just telling 40 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 you my concerns. I know you're working on plans. I want the newsstands to operate successfully, but there is a price that I feel ought not to be paid, and that's a price paid by everybody in Philadelphia and all of the visitors when they come into the City, they pay the price of being compelled to have this advertising forced upon them, and that's my concern. I don't think all the people that come downtown ought to pay the price of having to view the advertising. And so at that point, we leave it. Councilman DiCicco and I have been dealing with this and trying to see what could be worked out in some way. So far, we haven't succeeded in coming to a mutual agreement. I just wanted to express my concerns because I understand that -- despite earlier concerns of mine, I understand there's a proposal floating around to even increase the size of the advertising beyond what had been originally proposed.
And that's part of the discussion at the last meeting.
And that's the reason why for the first time I'm stating what my 41 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 views are. I was hoping that if it ever occurred, it would be confined to a smaller area. I also was disturbed by the concept of the kind of advertising that might go on, and I find that instead of dealing with that situation, there's an effort to make it bigger and to broaden the scope of the substance. So I'm just making public, 'cause I've been wrangling with it, I have not wanted in any way to get involved in any public dispute, because I do recognize the contribution the Newsstand Association has made under the leadership of John Rocco, and I was very active with him and was promoting the concept of the Newsstand Association 'cause I thought it was important that they get together. They were not being treated fairly, it seemed to me, before. And I think since their association, they're in the position to better, you know, get fair treatment, and they're beginning to get it, and I'm very glad for that. So I'm just making that statement for the record. I don't want anybody to be surprised at any given time, but I do hope that there can be a solution with a minimum -- if I had my way, a 42 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 total absence -- of advertising.
Maybe we can include it into one of my former bills where we had banned political posters from being placed throughout the City, we could ban all advertising. Councilmember Clarke?.
Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Peterscheim, you had alluded to the fact earlier that your ability to participate in the initial was based on the volume of sales 13 for USA Today and was it Time Magazine also? 14
New York Times? 16 Can we measure what the volume of sales are for 17 other accessory contents of the newsstands? I 18 believe there's magazines that are sold in 19 different newsstand. In other words, has there 20 been an assessment of the other volume of --
I mean, I would have no idea. I mean, we -- USA Today would not go through that; the newsstand owner would have to do that. If the magazine company is interested in knowing, you know, what John sells at 20th and 43 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 Market, then they, of course, can find that information. It's out there; it's just a matter of going and getting it.
Has there been an effort to touch base with the other publications?
To get them to participate in the program so we can expand that beyond 20?
We have Philadelphia Magazine involved, and he has -- and David Lipson, the president and publisher, has committed to five newsstands, that he feels his magazines are selling in those particular locations. We also have Investors Business Daily that has a lot of interest in the project also. So we're trying to bring this project to a broader level, aside from using the commercial advertising.
I know in some neighborhoods, some publications sell more than others.
And I guess what 44 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 I'm trying t say or would I'd like to see -- and not having known how much you are in a proactive manner to go out and solicit those other advertisements to participate in this program so we can broaden the scope throughout the neighborhoods because I know that some people sell things other than USA Today and the New York Times and Philly Magazine in other neighborhoods, the volume of sale associated with those other things are a lot higher, so I'd like to see them to participate in the program so this gentleman here could possible participate. You're at 56th and --
Councilman Clarke, I just want to address one point. You bring up a very good point in that there might be a possibility for some other publications to come on board. I can't speak for them; I can only know what we do. It's hard for a smaller publication to make this kind of an investment to an abstract idea or a drawing, which is kind of why we came here today. And I wanted to address to Councilman Cohen we really didn't to want to discuss 45 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 advertising today; what wanted to discuss today was, you know, if we can get the legislation passed, we can put newsstands on the street. 5 Once those 20 newsstands are on the street, then 6 maybe the other publications will begin to see it, 7 then maybe the effects are seen, and maybe the 8 sales will increase for the publications. Then 9 maybe, you know, John can get interest from other 10 publications to expand the project elsewhere. 11 But if the legislation doesn't go 12 anywhere, then nothing happens, and you're left 13 with what is on the books now, which is, anybody 14 who is made of wood can be shut down tomorrow. 15
And there are guys 17 who in this business, you know, they don't make a 18 lot of money, and especially the way newspaper 19 sales go, you know sales are going down, so there 20 isn't a lot of profit there. And so when some of these guys say, you know, I can't afford to build a new stand, it's true.
My name is Earl Rogers. And when I joined this association, it was for that sole purpose; it was for me to obtain a 46 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 newspaper stand. And, you know, I'm just here to, like, advocate the fact that having that advertisement would be beneficial to the organization because what it does, actually, is going to help little businessmen who does not have this money to get into business and also have something that they can be actually proud of. And, you know, I'm just here just here to implore to this committee -- I mean, the Councilmen, you know, to think about that. You know, because what it's going to do is, it's going to take a lot of young people who wants to probably start and own a small little business like a newsstand, you know, and give them a really difficult way to go. And, you know, they're just not having enough money to come up. And, you know, to pay for something like that is, you know, it's beyond words.
Thank you, thank you. The way I look at this, you know, we're dealing with stadiums possibly and we're talking about naming rights and who gets the revenue. I 47 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 mean, this is kind of like getting naming rights for the little business guy, where the little businessperson gets some of the revenues for the naming rights on the newsstand. And I think we owe it to the small business folks in this town to make every opportunity for them to be compensated and to continue to thrive as a business. Are there any other questions? (No further questions.)
For the record, Councilmember Ortiz is now in session with us. So I guess, Mr. Peterscheim, that what you're asking to do, then, is pass Bill 166 as is, without the amendments.
And with the understanding that this committee will continue to work with all the associations and all the interested parties over the next couple of weeks to see if we can come up with some of the amendments that we were discussing at the last hearing two, three weeks or so ago.
And at that point, 48 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 if we come to a resolution, then we can adopt and/or do the amendments that may change what the prototypes will be going forward; am I correct in that?
Councilmember Clarke is going to propose a amendment at the appropriate time, and this really deals with the location of newsstands as it relates to intersections and certain types of buildings or institutions around Rittenhouse Square primarily. So rather than hold the bill up because of this amendment, he will offer this as a friendly amendment, and I think at that point, it seems to be the general consensus of the committee that we can vote this bill out today.
We'd like just to show you, Mr. Chairman, what we're advocating now and what we have on the street now. And we think that the compare and contrast speaks for itself, and we hope that you indeed vote this out of committee so that we can move forward and improve the streetscape. (Illustration of proposed new prototype 49 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 newsstand is displayed for committee members.)
Are there any other questions? (No further questions.)
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to read this into the record in the hearing, an amendment to Bill No. 000166. Add new sections 9-212(4)(d), (e) and (f) to read as follows: 9-212, Newsstands. Number 4, location of Newsstands. There shall be no newsstand within 30 feet of: 1. any property classified as residential or; 2. any church, chapel, convent, synagogue, mosque, monastery, rectory, or other place of worship and adjunct residential dwellings. (e) There should be no newsstand in the following locations: 1. both sides of 18th Street, between Walnut Street and Rittenhouse Square; 2. both sides of West Rittenhouse Square, between Walnut Street and Rittenhouse Square; and 3. both sides of Walnut Street, between 18th 50 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 Street and West Rittenhouse Square; 4. both sides of Rittenhouse Square, between 18th Street and West Rittenhouse Square. (f) Any newsstand licensed prior to May 16, 2000 shall be exempt from any provisions of Subsection 9-212(4)(d) and 9-212(4)(e).
Yes. There's a newsstand on the corner of 18th and Walnut. He is not affected --
Steve Peterscheim, USA Today. Provision (f), just so I understand it, it says, "Any newsstand licensed prior to May 16, 2000 shall be exempt from the provisions above." Now the licenses are renewed every year, right? Now, when his license comes up for renewal, he'll 51 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 still be eligible for that location?
Mr. Chairman, my name is Howard Berman (ph.), I'm on the board of the Newsstand Association. In regard to the advertising, the main reason why we are interested in advertising -- and I don't know whether everyone is aware of this, but newsstands vary in price enormously. It can be 2,000 to 100,000 or better. The advertising is our opportunity to level the playing field.
We -- I don't think we need to -- and I appreciate your being here today, but I don't think we need to discuss the advertising today. That is something we're going to continue to work on as a committee with the Association, and I'm really going to do everything I can to get some resolution to that between now and June 22nd. I think it would only complicate some of the things we're trying to do today.
I mean, I think -- and I appreciate what you were about to do, but I 52 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000166 don't think it's going to be important. I think, actually, it might take us a few steps back if we get into that again today. Thank you.
Any other questions for these witnesses? (No further questions.)
Thank you, thank you all for coming. And, again, I want to apologize one more time for the confusion. I truly am sorry about that.
Bill No. 218, an ordinance 19 granting permission to Columbia Transmission Communications Corp., a Delaware corporation, its successors and assigns, to construct, maintain, and operate, replace and remove a telecommuni- cations system along, over, in, and under the public rights-of-way on City street, and/or to place such telecommunications system within the 53 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000218 existing facilities and by Bell Atlantic-PA, PECO Energy Company, Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, CSX Corporation, Norfolk Southern Corporation, Consolidated Rail Corporation Shared, or other entity holding a grant pursuant to other City ordinances, all under certain terms and conditions.
Good afternoon please identify yourself for the record.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name's John Cunningham, and I'm the Right-of-Way Manager for the Department of Streets. And I'm here to testify on Bill No. 000218 on behalf of the Streets. This bill grants permission to Columbia Transmission Communications Corporation, a Delaware corporation, its successors and assigns to construct, maintain, and operate, replace and remove a telecommunications system along, over, in, and under the public right-of-way and City streets and/or to place such telecommunications system within the existing facilities owned by Bell Atlantic-PA, PECO Energy Company, 54 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000218 Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, CSX Corporation, Norfolk Southern Corporation, Consolidated Rail Corporation Shared Assets, or other entity holding a grant pursuant to other City ordinances, all under certain terms and conditions. This is not an administrative ordinance 9 but an ordinance requested by Columbia Transmission Communications, a Delaware Corporation, 12801 Fairlakes Parkway, P.O. Box 10146, Fairfax, Virginia. The proposal is for a new conduit to be installed for a portion of the route in the SEPTA Route 3 right-of-way between Philadelphia city limits, near Cobbs Creek and 60th Street, to Woodland Avenue, near 48th Street, west of Woodland Bridge. For the remainder of the route, cable will be installed in existing SEPTA ducts, with the exception of the tie-in to the building at the end of the route, 401 North Broad, where a new conduit will be installed from 13th Street into the building. Consequently, there are no 24 anticipated railway excavations for this installation. 55 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000218 The Department of Streets Department has reviewed the preliminary plans and has no 4 objection to the passage of this ordinance.
Thank you. Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members of the Council, my name is Robert Rockwood, and I am the General Manager of Columbia Transmission Communications. I appreciate very much the opportunity to appear before this afternoon and the opportunity to describe the fiber optic telecommunications system that Columbia Transcom is building and what its relationship, we hope, will be with the City of Philadelphia. Columbia Transcom will need to install, as has just been described, an operating system underneath certain City streets and public right-of-way, and for that purpose, we have applied to the City for the right to install the fiber optic cable underneath those same streets. Columbia Transcom's state-of-the-art fiber optic system would be used by our customers 56 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000218 to provide diverse and technologically advanced telecommunications to the Philadelphia community, and for that reason, we believe that Columbia Transcom and its business plan will be an asset to the City of Philadelphia. Let me first describe my company to you. Columbia Transcom is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Columbia Energy Group, which is one of the nation's leading energy companies, and Columbia Transmission Communications, again, the fiber optics company that is before you today, is the affiliate that's charged with the creation of a fiber optic system. As a member of the Columbia Energy Group family of companies, Columbia Transcom is keenly aware of its responsibilities to the communities through which its fiber optic system will go, especially into Philadelphia. We're committed to installing and operating the system in a manner which satisfies all of the City's safety and other requirements. In recognition of the importance of the quality of safety conditions invoked by the City, we're working closely and well with (unintelligible). Columbia Transcom will be providing 57 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000218 dark fiber strands; that is, telecommunications highways in its fiber optic system to many types of customers, including telecommunications carriers, Internet service-providers, government agencies, and private businesses. The Columbia Transcom fiber system is a sophisticated, high-capacity system that will offer its customers capability or providing highly reliable, economically efficient, and advanced telecommunication applications and services. Those customers will, in turn, supply the electronics necessary to provide full-service telecommunications directly to the public, to the City of Philadelphia. We recognize -- Transcom recognizes Philadelphia's place within the community of cities in the mid-Atlantic, and in fact, its premier stature amongst those cities, and we feel that access to this state-of-the-art telecommunications system can only enhance the City's ability to do business and its stature, again, with the communities in the mid-Atlantic. Thank you, and I'll be glad to answer any questions. I'm going to be followed by Steve 58 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000218 Hire (ph.), who will describe some of the physical characteristics of the system itself.
Thank you. Good afternoon, and please identify yourself for the record.
Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Steven Hire, and I am a telecommunications consultant to Columbia Transcom. I've been involved in telecommunications for some years and in 12 Philadelphia for the past 15 years. I was one of 13 the founders of Eastern Telelogic Corporation and 14 I actually sat here before Council some 14 years 15 ago in association with Bill 1191, which granted 16 us the authority to construct a network in 17 Philadelphia. 18 For the last year or so, I have been 19 consulting, and most recently now, supporting 20 Columbia's efforts in obtaining an ordinance here in Philadelphia. I've been asked to speak to the rights-of-way and the method of installation for Columbia. In general, the installation of the fiber optic line in the City will extend from 59 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000218 Cobbs Creek through Southwest Philadelphia and then up to the area of 401 North Broad Street. The route begins at Cobbs Creek, CTC proposes to run in the rights-of-way of the SEPTA R3line to Woodland Ave., where the route transitions under the City streets within SEPTA conduit systems already in place to the area at 401 North Broad. The proposed facilities will be installed under a licensed arrangement with SEPTA. Substantially all of CTC's installations will be in SEPTA-controlled property or within SEPTA's existing conduits under City streets. Two exceptions where we will need to access to City streets for conduit construction are at the connection of the SEPTA R3 line and the SEPTA conduit system under Woodland Avenue. There is about a 30-foot area of need to construct conduit. And in that -- near the vicinity of 401 North Broad, we would need to construct about construct about 200 line of conduit line along Noble Street. These physical disturbances -- and these are the only two areas where we anticipate physically disturbing the streets of Philadelphia. Installation methods are comprised of 60 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000218 conduit work, where we would actually trench and install four 1.5-inch conduits within the SEPTA right-of-way of the R3 between Cobbs Creek and Woodland Ave. This is comprised of the trenching of the trench of about the depth of approximately 36 inches, and then laying in four 1.5-inch conduits. Work beyond that within the streets along the SEPTA system is compromised of what we call an interduct, a plastic interduct of about the same diameter within existing SEPTA conduits. And these installations would occur between -- along Woodland Ave. and continue onto in and about the area of 401 Broad Street. Now, in terms of access windows, there's two scenarios that we're (unintelligible) to work. Along the SEPTA R3 line, the working would be done in accordance with approved SEPTA times, which would take into consideration train traffic and so forth, and within the streets, where we would need access to SEPTA manholes, and there would be minimum inconvenience to traffic flow and so forth. Those hours would be coordinated with the City Streets Department. 61 5/16/00 STREETS, SERVICES - BILL 000218 Thank you.
Are there any other witnesses to be heard? (No response.)