COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND PUBLIC UTILITIES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:00 p.m. - - - PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN CAROL ANN CAMPBELL, CHAIR COUNCILMAN FRANK DiCICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN WILLIAM GREENLEE COUNCILMAN JACK KELLY RESOLUTION 070179 - Resolution authorizing City Council's Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities to hold public hearings to investigate and determine the progress of the Market Elevated Reconstruction Project... RESOLUTION 070212 - Resolution authorizing City Council's Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities to determine the safety of our public school children who are transported to and from school buses not equipped with seat belt restraints... - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 2
Good afternoon. I am Carol Campbell, Chair of the Transportation and Public Utilities Committee. The Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities is now in session. Let the record reflect that in attendance are Committee members Councilman Bill 10 Greenlee, Councilman Wilson Goode, Jr. Would the Clerk please read the title of the resolution.
Resolution 070179, resolution authorizing City Council's Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities to hold public hearings to investigate and determine the progress of the Market Elevated Reconstruction Project and to further investigate and determine whether SEPTA cannot do more to alleviate the displacement and financial desolation suffered by many of the small business owners and residents who are directly impacted by this project and the Philadelphia community at large; and to 3 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 investigate and determine what SEPTA has done, as a neighbor for the neighborhoods adjacent to this project and to determine why SEPTA cannot be more responsive to the complaints of the community and the larger Philadelphia community during the course of this reconstruction project.
That's incorrect. That's not the first one. That was inadvertently placed. That wasn't supposed to be placed. It's the other one.
Resolution 070212, authorizing City Council's Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities to determine the safety of our public school children who are transported to and from school in school buses not equipped with seat belt restraints; and to determine whether there are not immediate alternatives available for the protection of our children when riding school buses; and to determine the means, methods and criterion used by the Philadelphia School 4 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 Reform Commission to ensure the safety of children transported to and from school under their supervision.
Would any of the Committee members wish to make a statement? (No response.)
Would the Clerk please call the first witness. I believe it's Mr. Lombardi; is it not? Is there a Mr. Lombardi?
Good afternoon, Councilwoman Campbell and members of City Council Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities. My name is John Lombardi and I am the Administrator for Transportation Services for the School District of Philadelphia. I am pleased to offer testimony on Resolution No. 5 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 070212. The School District of Philadelphia is Pennsylvania's second largest transportation operation and the nation's sixth largest school bus operation. The mission of the Transportation Services Division is to provide safe, effective and efficient transportation to and from school for those eligible Philadelphia resident students in accordance with federal and state mandates and District policy. To realize this goal we utilize school buses, taxicabs, tokens, free and subsidized, and reimbursement to parents. Transportation Services provides high quality, low cost repairs to the School District's bus fleet and automotive fleet, as well as a preventive maintenance program for all School District vehicles. It is the further responsibility of Transportation Services to provide such services economically and in accordance with sound management 6 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 policies and procedures under the direction of the School Reform Commission. Thus, the Transportation Services Division is an integral part of the total education system, contributing significantly to the learning process by providing safe and dependable transportation. In order for a student to be eligible for transportation services, the School District policy requires that the student be a resident of the City and be designated by the Office of Specialized Services as a participant in a special education program pursuant to an Individualized Education Plan, IEP, and whose participation requires transportation is needed to enable the student to get to and from school; or Live more than one mile from his or her school and be participating in the voluntary school desegregation program of the School District of Philadelphia; or 7 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 Be in grades one through six and live one mile and a half or further from the assigned school; or Be in grades one through eight and whose route to school is determined to be hazardous by the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation or be designated by the District administration to attend a school other than his or her regularly assigned school for reasons of overcrowded conditions and be in need of transportation, as determined by the Transportation Services; and Lastly, have extenuating circumstances that dictate an extraordinary need for District-provided transportation, as recommended by District administration. In addition, state law requires that when provisions of free transportation services are made to public school students, the District must also provide the same service to the students who regularly attend non-public 8 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 and charter schools. Currently, the School District provides safe, timely and economical service to approximately 38,000 students who are eligible for free transportation in accordance with federal and state mandates, court orders and School District policy. Fourteen hundred and thirty-nine routes are utilized to transport public, non-public or parochial and charter school students to and from school each day. Of the 1,439 transportation routes, 858 routes are for public school students, 234 routes are for charter school students and 347 routes are for non-public students. Furthermore, the School District operates 488 routes in-house, private contractors operate 768 routes, and 50 routes are operated by schools that do their own bussing; for example, charter or parochial schools. The route development and student assignment is supported from the Office of Transportation Services. 9 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 In addition, 133 routes are facilitated by taxicabs.
These daily routes transport students approximately 43,315 miles one way on a daily basis and cover 1,290 square miles. In addition, 30,000 educational, cultural and athletic trips are scheduled during off-peak hours. Nationally, school buses are considered the safest form of transportation for students. 5 million children to and from school and school-related activities. On average, six school-age children throughout the United States die in school bus crashes as passengers each year. During the mid 1970s in an effort to address the issue of safety on school buses, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration established a Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards 10 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 group to increase the strength of school buses and to improve occupant protection. Under the existing regulations, the primary means of occupant protection for large school buses is the safety concept known as compartmentalization. Compartmentalization protects occupants by using strong, closely spaced seats equipped with high-absorbing seat backs. Compartmentalization provides passive protection, meaning that the protection is there when needed without the need for passengers to take any action such as buckling the seat belt. Currently, four states have enacted laws requiring seat belts on school buses. New York enacted a law in 1987, New Jersey in 1994, Florida in 2001. The requirements in these states was to have lap belts on their school buses. Lastly, in 2005, California enacted legislation that requires lap and shoulder belts on all newly purchased school buses. 11 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 Pennsylvania does not require that school buses be equipped with seat belts. Additionally, there is no federal mandate for installing seat belts on school buses. While there have been numerous studies over the years to analyze the effective seat belts for school bus safety, there have been no 10 conclusive evidence that the use of seat belts on school buses make the ride any safer for passengers. Recently, Michael Martin, Executive Director of the National Association of Pupil Transportation, stated that the results of a recent study conducted by the National Highway Safety Administration did not conclude that seat belts provided any safer ride for students. As a result, there will be public hearings in Washington, DC on July the 11th, 2007 facilitated by NHTSA. This hearing will focus on passenger crash protection on school buses and the safety benefits of seat belts. We await 12 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 the results of the July hearings and guidance from NHTSA on this matter. Absent clear guidance from NHTSA on the safety benefits of requiring seat belts for students, the School District has not undertaken the expense of retrofitting their school buses with these safety restraints. In addition, the installation of seat belts on school buses results in a loss of seating capacity on the bus, which will consequently increase transportation costs through the addition of new routes to meet capacity. Thank you for the opportunity to present before you today. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you, Mr. Lombardi, for your comments. Can't sound management policy and procedures under the direction of the School Reform Commission create a conflict of interest for your department?
No, ma'am. Not 13 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 in this case for seat belts.
What I mean is that on one hand, the safety of our children should be paramount, but your testimony rests on a fiscal analysis cost first, right?
The reason that the seat belts are not mandated is because there's no conclusive proof or evidence to support that they would provide a safer ride. The cost for seat belts on school buses might be about three to four thousand dollars per vehicle. So that's not really driving the issue. It's whether it's going to provide a safer ride for the kids.
Well, that's not exactly so. It's under the School Reform Commission's direction that you provide transportation services economically, correct?
You have talked about the national averages 14 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 for bus safety with six school-age children dying in school bus crashes each year, but what is the number of children nationally who suffer from serious injury from school bus accidents?
That information I don't have with me, ma'am. I will say --
I will say that in the six fatalities a year, there's no 14 evidence to support that seat belts would have resulted differently in the consequences for those students.
That's not what I asked you. Let me reiterate what I said to you. I said you have talked about the national averages for bus safety with six school-age children dying in school bus crashes each year, but what is the number of children nationally who suffer from serious injury from school bus accidents? 15 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212
What is the number of school-age children in Philadelphia who suffer injury from school bus accidents yearly?
There's injuries that range from a bruise on their leg to a bruise on their arm.
Sir, I'm talking about statistics. I said what is the number.
You knew the purpose of this meeting and you didn't bring the information that we need 16 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 for this?
How many Philadelphia children transferred on school buses have been injured this year?
I do not have a specific number for that. I can provide that to you. 17 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212
I don't have that information either. I can speak on how many accidents we had, but I don't have specific numbers of injuries.
Well, you should. Has Philadelphia had any fatal injuries of children on school buses?
The information you have provided us today comes from reports and position papers by the National Association for Pupil Transportation, the National Association of State Public Directors of Public Transportation and the National School Transportation Association; isn't that correct?
These organizations represent the three largest lobbying groups on behalf of private 18 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 companies that contract with local school districts to provide school transportation; isn't that correct?
You even quote Michael Martin, Executive Director for the National Association for Pupil Transportation, in your testimony to suggest to us that there is credibility in his position, right?
Yes, ma'am. He believes that there needs to be further studies on the matter.
You have not provided this body with a view of the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration. Why is that?
They have conducted tests that have been inconclusive regarding the effectiveness 19 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 of seat belts on school buses.
The National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration has already concluded that there is benefit in the three-point seatbelt on school buses; isn't that right?
The most recent study of school bus safety by the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration was conducted in April of 2002, and one of the conclusions of this study was that seat belts, lap shoulder belts, when properly worn, could provide additional protection for school bus passengers, right?
This is from the School Bus Crashworthiness research report.
The public hearing that you refer to in your 20 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 testimony to be conducted by NHTSA on July 1, 2007 are rule-making hearings to formulate and implement their view that the three-point seat belt offers more protection to students on certain school buses.
You also do not include in your testimony the fact that federal law requires seat belts on small school buses weighing less than 10,000 pounds. Why is that?
I mention large buses, but, yes, we do comply with that, ma'am. There are seat belts on those school buses that are less than 10,000 pounds.
Do you not think it is important for this body to have this information?
Your testimony further does not provide us 21 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 with the perspective of the National Coalition for School Bus Safety, which is one of the largest national pro-school bus restraints organizations. Why is that?
There are many organizations that have overseen tests on school buses and that's one as well.
I was asked to provide information regarding studies that have been conducted with regard to seat belts, and the conclusion that most transportation experts in the field have made is that the seat belts are not providing any safer ride for students, and we're looking for the federal government to provide clear direction so that we proceed, if that's the case, to 22 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 purchase school buses with seat belts.
But the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Medical Association support three-point seat belts. Are you aware of this?
Yes, I am. There are many organizations on both sides of the fence that feel strongly about their positions.
You would agree that these pro-seat belt organizations would not appear to represent the interest of the private companies that contract with local school districts to provide school transportation?
You testified that four states have enacted 23 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 laws requiring seat belts on school buses: New York, New Jersey, Florida and California. But Virginia enacted such legislation in 2006 and Texas just recently signed such legislation. Are you aware of these states?
Yes, ma'am. There have been others as well that have done pilots on the effectiveness of seat belts on school buses.
Are you aware that in addition to these states that has enacted such legislation, that Missouri, Kansas, Tennessee, Minnesota and Louisiana all within the last 17 months introduced legislation for 18 mandatory seat belts on school buses?
Finally, you conclude by stating that we await the results of the July hearings and guidance from NHTSA on the issue of seat belts. However, Dr. Roger Saul, 24 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 Director, Office of Crashworthiness Standards for NHTSA, has indicated that the earliest new performance standard could be enacted 2010 or 2011. Do you know that?
Okay. He has further stated that with the industry making the transition required of the new performance standards, actual implementation of the new standard would not take effect until 2013 or 2014. Did you know that?
You certainly can't be suggesting that we wait until 2010 or 2014 to consider this matter.
Sir, 25 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 you sit there, I think, to have the audacity to place the lives of our children over the cost to make them safe. This is what this really comes down to, and this is wrong.
No, ma'am. The safety of our students is primary. We take the matter very seriously.
School buses are safe, but they're not safe enough. Accordingly, the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration has demonstrated that in their reports. Can you enlighten me anymore? I mean, I don't understand you. You know you come to this hearing, but you don't have any precise statistics, yet you have not given us a clear picture of really what the situation is. I mean, I find it -- seat belts are mandatory for adults. An adult can control their body much better than a child can in a crisis of accident.
The seat belts 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 are mandated on passenger vehicles, ma'am. It's a different vehicle than a school bus, with different safety features. They're higher off the ground than a car. They have not concluded that the seat belts provide a safer ride at this time.
Sir, what this looks like, it looks like there's still more concern about economic than they are the lives of these children, and that's intolerable, because nothing --
Well, I'm sorry to give you that impression, but that's not --
I'm not finished, sir. Nothing comes before protecting these children. Do they have any other plans that they're working on to deal with this problem?
Okay. 27 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 No further questions. I want to say that Councilman Kelly has arrived. I want the record to note that he's here. Councilman Greenlee.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Lombardi, good afternoon. Just a question you answered a little earlier, you said about accidents that I think you said were not -- or injuries that were not preventable by seat belts.
How do they determine that? Maybe you don't know. I'm just trying to --
Because it would seem like any accident, if a kid is in a seat and is not restrained, it increases the chance, no matter how the accident occurs.
Most of the accidents occur in the loading and 28 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 unloading zone.
In the loading and unloading zone, kids getting off the bus.
Yes. And where there have been fatalities with a bus, it's usually a case with a significantly large vehicle that they've concluded in many of those tests that it would not have been any different conclusion in the result of that accident.
I mean, I can see if the bus isn't moving. That makes sense. I mean, obviously the kid wouldn't be restrained. But it would seem like any accident that involves a moving -- or the bus moving at the time, it would seem to me hard that the child being restrained doesn't factor in somehow. 29 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212
Doesn't factor in to the injury. You know what I'm saying? I mean, it just seems like -- I'm not arguing. I'm just trying to -- just common sense. Again, if the vehicle is moving, it would seem like the child not being restrained has to be a factor.
I don't know. That's why I said I don't know if you --
Well, we're looking for the experts, the engineers, to give us guidance on how we should proceed. They've given us information about stop arms on school buses and cross arms and forward-facing wheelchairs and additional mirrors on school buses, and we're looking for guidance on that matter as well. There's a reason most of the states don't have seat belts on their 30 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 school buses. They're not convinced that they would provide a safer ride for kids.
But it's a different vehicle, sir. It is a much different vehicle.
I'm just trying to, I guess -- and you may not know the answer. I'm just trying to think out loud here, how if a bus is moving and a child is hurt, how they could determine that the seat belt didn't matter there. Do you know? Again, using your example about getting out of a bus, yeah, getting out of a bus, that makes sense. A kid wouldn't be restrained no 23 matter what. But if the vehicle is moving, it just seems like that -- it's got to be a factor in there. 31 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212
Some of the conclusions that were reached regarding accidents that occurred, a bus might have turned over. Let's say the student was unable to unhook themselves in a seat belt. They're saying that that could have caused more significant injury than just falling out of the seat. There was an accident many years ago in Kentucky where a truck ran into a school bus and it was engulfed in flames and many of the students died in the fire trying to get out, and there was discussion even back then, some 15 years ago, about seat belts, that if there were seat bets on those buses, that some of those kids who got out safely may not have gotten out. Please understand that our position is not opposed to seat belts on school buses.
If it's 32 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 mandated, we will comply, as we have every other law that's come down. It's just at this time there isn't conclusive -- and Mr. Martin's position from the National Association was exactly that. We were looking for further guidance on this. We were looking for a stronger direction on how to proceed with the purchase of our school buses. We do not -- school bus operators are very much concerned with the safety and welfare of our kids, and we are as well.
Good afternoon, Councilman. 33 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212
The Chair and chief sponsor of the resolution did such an excellent job, I was going to let you go, but you made a statement that the reason why most states do not have seat belts on buses is because the inconclusive evidence. Is that your statement?
So do you believe that those states removed the seat belts or the seat belts were never on the buses?
They were never on the buses, sir. They never purchased them with seat belts.
So they didn't remove the seat belts because of inconclusive evidence?
No, sir, they did not remove them. 34 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212
Is there a reason why you believe you're the only witness today?
Is there a reason why you believe that you are the only witness today?
Why I was the only witness? No, sir. I'm not sure who else would be testifying.
That's exactly my point. No one is sure who else will be testifying. You are in fact the school bus guy.
Most states never purchase seat belts, whether they should have or shouldn't, because the evidence is inconclusive.
You are in 35 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 fact the school bus guy for Philadelphia.
I believe within the next three to five years there will be legislation mandating seat belts on school buses.
And why do you believe that there will be legislation mandating seat belts?
It certainly appears that seat belts -- a three-point, not a lap belt, but a three-point system on a school bus would provide a safer ride. It certainly would appear that way.
That's why 36 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 you're the school bus guy. Thank you.
Mr. Lombardi, you mention in your testimony that it would cost approximately about two to three thousand dollars per van or school bus?
The school buses vary in price, depending on size, depending on whether you buy a conventional school bus, which are the old-fashioned looking, or the transit styles. Approximately $80,000, $85,000 we would pay for a 66-passenger transit style school bus. So it would add about $3,000 to the cost of that. The flooring 37 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 would have to be --
Well, how about the present school buses that we have for installing seat belts?
The last couple years the buses were coming in with reinforced flooring in the event there was some law change regarding that.
So it's only the newer models then that would be capable of putting in seat belts?
And how many would you say -- what percentage would you say that are --
The average age of our buses is about five years old. This year we're taking out of service buses that are over ten years old. We're buying 44 buses this year. So with that, our fleet will be about five years old on the average.
So what's the percentage of buses that could be 38 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212 capable of having the seat belts installed?
And then it would be slowly as you buy or purchase the school buses?
I want to note that Councilman DiCicco is here in attendance. Are there any other questions of this witness? (No response.)
Thank you. 39 6/12/07 - TRANSPORTATION - BILL 070212
Are there any other witnesses here to testify on this resolution? (No response.)
At this time, I want to recess this resolution to the call of the Chair. We have not gotten the answers that we really need to get here. This is too serious a problem, as I see it, that just we cannot take it lightly. So we're going to recess this to the call of the Chair and we'll proceed with the next bill. The next is Bill 070211 -- this will conclude the hearing on Transportation. We're waiting for the members to come down for the other Committee. Thank you. (Committee on Transportation and Public Utilities adjourned at 1:30 p.m.) 40 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter on June 12, 2007, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. ______________________________ MICHELE L. MURPHY RPR-Notary Public (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)