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Minutes

Committee Hearing, June 4, 2007

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsJun 4, 2007

People mentioned

Names our system found in this transcript. Automatically extracted, so it can include anyone named in the record, not only officials or parties.

Organizations mentioned

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Absolutely.

Councilman Kenney

-- to be able to ask them what they're doing or how they intend to proceed.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Well, Councilman, I hope that we will have the end-users selected and they will 57 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 come in and sit here and tell you absolutely how it will be used.

Councilman Kenney

Not including this parcel though?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Well, this one is still -- I'm assuming that we -- if we can have a selected winner by Wednesday and that we all understand what the ultimate use of this one will be as well, that we could move forward.

Councilman Kenney

How long have the negotiations been going on with the three parties?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

About two months.

Councilman Kenney

And the fact that we haven't done this already has not slowed those negotiations down correct?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Correct.

Councilman Kenney

So why would completing the negotiations and coming up with a deal be problematic if we don't approve these today or 58 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 Wednesday?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Because I wanted -- the idea is for those folks -- it's urgent for those folks to get possession of it. And also, it's an asset sale for us that we were counting on for revenue.

Councilman Kenney

But if we've been negotiating it for two months, and I know we're coming up on the summer, why the rush before the summer recess? We can come back here and September and approve it after we've had a chance to discuss all of this with everybody. I get suspicious -- and I'm not suspicious of your motives, but I get suspicious when we get told a couple weeks before the end or a week before the end of session that we got to do this. We can't tell you how much it's worth, we can't tell you what it's going to be used for, but we got to get it done before the summer starts or a 59 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 calamity's going to happen. I can't imagine what calamity would happen. You've been negotiating this for two months, you could negotiate it, you could pick the person next week, two weeks from now, and then come back to us and we'll approve it -- if it's acceptable use.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Okay. Well, again, I wanted to be clear. The other two parcels are valued, our key process happened. I would ask or request that we don't combine the two and keep them separate.

Councilman Kenney

Even though that process is further along the road, you still can't tell me today what they're going to do there.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

No, but I'm going to tell you Wednesday, and then we'll have people here to tell you what they're going to do.

Councilman Kenney

You can tell me -- it's Monday and you're going 60 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 to tell me Wednesday?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

That's how close we are, yes. That's how close we are, yes.

Councilman Kenney

All right.

Councilman Clarke

What are the other two on the calendar today?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Pardon me?

Councilman Clarke

The other two bills? So it's -- we have already approved PAID --

Councilman Kenney

One bill.

Councilman Clarke

Just the one?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

No. 17

Mr. Herzins

It's -- 070434 is the companion bill that the Commissioner will have people to testify on Wednesday.

Councilman Clarke

All right. So we'll move that until Wednesday.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

So you'll move both of them.

Councilman Clarke

Yes. 61 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Okay.

Councilman Clarke

So we'll move that till Wednesday at 11:30 also, and you'll be prepared to talk about it.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

I'll be prepared. And the end-user, or end-users, will be here to also explain.

Councilman Kenney

Could you tell us who they are now? PRPA and what's the other company?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

I actually -- I actually don't know for sure who's going to be here.

Councilman Kenney

So there's three entities: PRPA, a dredging company named...? Named...?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

It's called the Fort Mifflin Reclamation Association, FMRA.

Councilman Kenney

But that's seeming to me to be a corporation that was recently formed. This is not like 62 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 Browning Ferris or --

Ms. Schlotterbeck

He's the dredger.

Councilman Kenney

Who?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

FMRA is the dredging company.

Councilman Kenney

No, I understand that, but the fact that it's called Fort Mifflin Dredging Company would lead me to be believe that this has just been created. This is not a long-term company like trash hauling firms that have been national companies. Who are the principals in Fort Mifflin --

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Well, I have all of that.

Councilman Kenney

Okay. Do you know it now?

Mr. Herzins

Bill Rinaldi.

Councilman Kenney

Who?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Bill 25 Rinaldi. 63 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430

Mr. Herzins

Bill Rinaldi is the principal. And he's currently operating a small dredging down there now -- not on our particular land but on the land adjacent to the site.

Councilman Kenney

I want as much information as we can possibly find on this company. PRPA, they're a potential end-user for what purpose?

Mr. Herzins

It involves relocating another tenant from another parcel onto this site.

Councilman Kenney

Do we know who that tenant is?

Mr. Herzins

Riverside?

Councilman Kenney

What do they do?

Mr. Herzins

It's Anderson Construction Company.

Councilman Kenney

Okay. Now, I know who they are. So it's so much easier --

Ms. Schlotterbeck

We have 64 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 all of that. We just --

Councilman Kenney

But in all due respect, we weren't being given that today. Until we started this conversation, we weren't going to have any of this information.

Mr. Herzins

Councilman, there --

Councilman Kenney

We were going to be asked to cut these bills loose, give them to PAID, and we're going to go away. I don't think that's responsible.

Mr. Herzins

Councilman, honestly, it had been our intention to have a selection made prior, of course, to Council recessing, but when that didn't happen, we didn't want to slow the process --

Councilman Kenney

And we're not perfect, either, and we intend on doing lots of things we don't get to, but it doesn't mean we go and jump ahead and do it and put the cart before 65 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 the horse before we know what -- I'm sorry, but it's just asking a little too much without the knowledge. And the third company -- potential company is who, the construction company?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Anderson.

Councilman Kenney

Well, I thought that was the PRPA tenant who was being relocated.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Oh, I'm sorry. Riverside Materials.

Councilman Kenney

That's Anderson Company, right? And that's a tenant from PRPA that's being potentially relocated to this site?

Mr. Herzins

It's another, I think, subdivision of Anderson.

Councilman Kenney

So who's the third entity?

Mr. Herzins

The three people who are short-listed?

Councilman Kenney

The third entity, yes. PRPA, Riverside -- 66 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430

Mr. Herzins

And FMRA.

Councilman Kenney

Okay. See you Wednesday. Thanks.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you. So we're clear on those two bills?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

They're going to be held on Wednesday. I'll be here Wednesday with the selected winner and anybody that's going to be using the property to testify about their uses, correct?

Councilman Clarke

Yes.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Okay.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. Will the clerk please read the title of Bill No. 070438. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Inaudible.)

Councilman Clarke

I'm sorry. You wanted to testify on the bill that we're moving till Wednesday? Do you want to come back Wednesday? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 67 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 (Inaudible.) (Witness comes forward.)

Mr. Ali

Good morning. My name is Jahad Ali. I'm a taxpayer and I frequently attend some of the PAID board meetings. I started going a few months ago because there was a project that I had a concern about. And one of the things that -- some of the thoughts that I came upon, after having attended the PAID meetings, is, a lot of times I question, how could some of the deals that are occurring at PAID take place at the board meeting, and you can't find out any information? When I ask about the jobs, when I ask about the diversity, I was told, Well, you will just be given a form of paper, more like what you had. And then if they treat you like this, imagine what they do to a taxpaying citizen that comes up there. I was told -- when I come to 68 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 those board meetings, I'm questioned -- what is my relationship? what is my interest in it? And I'm just a taxpaying citizen that is exercising my right to be informed. One of the things you asked, Councilman Kenney, was there somebody from PRPA? But this document says "Philadelphia Authority for Industrial Development." Is anybody from Philadelphia Authority for Industrial Development here today?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

The answer is yes.

Councilman Clarke

Mr. Deegan.

Mr. Ali

A lot of times at the board meeting, when I go and I ask about the decisions that are made, I'm told that the decisions were made by PIDC, who, by statute, is the management agent for PAID. " But when stuff passes out of the City Council, when it gets to PAID's desk, a citizen can't find -- it's very hard to find out something. I went there on March 10th to question a project that was $28 million of affordable housing. To this day, I haven't gotten a response. I submitted a right-to-know request, I submitted all kinds of documentation, I attended the TEFRA hearing -- I don't know if you are all familiar with the TEFRA hearing -- which was the bond hearing, and then I attended the PAID board meeting. They never responded to that. I mean, everybody's nice guys, 70 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 they're all polite; let me just say that on the record. But there seems to be like this vealed attempt. I refer to them as "the CIA of Public Property" because you can't find out anything. When you look at it in detail, you see that the decisions are made at the board meeting of PAID, which consists of five people. The decisions that they render are based on their recommendations of their management agent, which is a board of 30 people, and that meeting is closed to the public. I've tried to attend that on four different attempts. Four times I was told I couldn't attend. Yet the legislation says it's an open meeting, but I was told I'm not able to attend because it's a private nonprofit that was created in 1958, but the legislation doesn't support that. When I call, I'm told, Well, you know, that's just the way it is. And as a taxpaying-citizen, I think 71 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 that all of your questions are right on point. I've attended, as you well know, a lot of meetings over here. And one of the things that I remember Councilwoman Tasco saying, when we were doing the stadiums, everything was always the last minute. The last minute they come over here, the last minute they want you all to approve this stuff. And then once PAID gets it, it's really just a negotiation deal. Like the Public Property Commissioner pointed out, she has three potential end-users. Well, that sounds like a team. Now, PAID has to have talked to them, but yet, this is a shell game where, if you're not on point, once you approve this out, PAID, through their management agent, the 30 board of directors, and there's only one City Council that sits on that board, and that's Councilwoman Jannie 72 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 Blackwell representative that attends that board meeting. But there's no way for a taxpaying citizen to find out what's going on. And I'm like Councilman Kenney. I don't oppose none of this; I think all of this is good stuff. But I think, as a taxpayer, I should be aware, and we all should be aware of seeing how that cycle is. There's some firms that have an unfair advantage. They have an -- I won't say "unfair" because the business is not fair, they have an unethical advantage, because they get everything. You know, there's some firms that are buying land at 5,000 a square foot -- and PAID, he can correct me if I'm wrong -- at $5,000 square foot on the Navy Yard, at the Navy Yard. Now, you know, I know that we're talking about jobs because the legislation says that PAID is empowered 73 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 for jobs and for the morale of the citizens of Philadelphia, and that was a big thing back in '67 and '58 was jobs, how do citizens participate. Now, I've attended a hearing at PAID, and I asked, How do we follow the jobs? how do you get an applicant come up there for a grant or a loan? They say that they're going to provide jobs. The question is, Well, how are they going to do the outreach for jobs? Then PAID says, Well, we have hands off on that; that's between the applicant and whatever they do; we don't follow that.

Mr. Ali

And the question is: We're empowering these people and giving these people land and discount capital. How come we can't track the jobs? PAID is an organization that has an annual budget. I've tried to get a copy of their annual report; I have still haven't gotten it, and that's been over 120 days. 74 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 So my question is -- I really came because of the subject matter. I wanted to tell you as a citizen that I think you're right on point. The point is -- and like everybody's nice guys like you said, Councilman. I don't want to disparage anybody, but there are also agendas that you -- you're my representative, and if I can't come to you and get anything, you can be assured that I can't get it on my own without your help. And the way that thing was set up, it's -- the ball stops right there, at the front of this Council. And the fact of the matter is, you have to take a hard line, because if you don't, it's part of the game is to keep your judgment not fully enlightened so that you can make a decision without facts. And then we get this perpetual cycle where a citizen comes up and it's already done deal. 75 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 And then we say -- like the Councilman said, we say, how did our Councilpeople do this? We don't say, how did the Public Property Manager do it, how did PAID do it; we say, how did our Councilperson approve this? So thanks for giving me the opportunity, Chairman and members of the Council.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Mr. Ali. Real briefly. Commissioner, once you convey to PAID, what level of interaction do you have on the negotiation side? Do they notify you that they're close? 'Cause you're saying now that you're very close to consummating the deal, and we haven't even authorized you to convey it to PAID yet.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

The complete disposition and negotiations rest with the City. We don't -- PAID doesn't do any of that for us. We do 76 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 it.

Councilman Clarke

So PAID does what, negotiate the sale?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

They market it and go through that process for us, but they don't make any decisions about what happens. We tell them we've selected so-and-so and the sale price so-and-so, and then they process the paperwork.

Councilman Clarke

Well, how does it then not come back to Council for disposition? I don't understand that. You're essentially telling me that the property never leaves the ownership of the City of Philadelphia. You simply have PAID --

Ms. Schlotterbeck

No, I don't know -- now you're asking -- Henry -- I mean, I don't -- when you start asking me the legality, I would assume that it does in some way legal way transfer over. We control what 77 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 happens to the process. It's not --

Councilman Clarke

Yeah, but who owns the property?

Mr. Schwartz

Henry Schwartz of the City Law Department. Councilman, in a typical transaction like this, you're authorizing the Commissioner to transfer it to PAID and for PAID then to transfer it to a third party. It all happens simultaneously at the closing table. So the property doesn't get transferred to PAID in advance, but when the ultimate user is ready and ready to close on the deal, at the same closing table, it goes from the City to PAID, and then from PAID to the end-user.

Councilman Clarke

So Public Property is in it right up until the end?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Oh, yeah. It's completely our process, our 78 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 decision.

Councilman Kenney

PAID is like the settlement agent?

Mr. Schwartz

Because of the City Charter, it's transferred to PAID, and for a second, it's in PAID's name, and then it transfers to the end-user.

Councilman Clarke

And the purpose for having that arrangement is what? And actually I think I know the answer, but I'm going to ask you: Why do we do that as opposed to the normal City conveyance?

Mr. Schwartz

Under the City Charter, the City would have to have a public auction.

Councilman Clarke

Right. And then it goes to the highest bidder?

Mr. Schwartz

Right. And other factors like jobs created or other issues may not be relevant in the bidding.

Councilman Clarke

All right. Councilwoman Tasco? 79 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, if you say that the conveyance is at the settlement table, this ordinance says it's an ordinance authorizing the Commissioner of Public Property, on behalf of the City of Philadelphia, to execute and deliver to the Philadelphia Authority for Industrial Development for nominal consideration a deed conveying fee simple title to all or parts of certain parcels of land with the buildings and improvements thereon located in the general blah-blah-blah- blah-blah. So if the conveyance takes place when you make the settlement, why are we giving you the ability now to convey this land to PAID? If the conveyance takes place at the settlement table, after the owner has been identified, after they have done their marketing study, what are you entering into now? Why are we doing this ordinance now? 80 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 Why don't you have a contract with PAID that they can market the land, bring you possible developers or the people who want to purchase the land? and then we know who the possible developers or owners might be. Why can't we know what they want to do with the land, have that discussion, and then you make the decision after the discussion with the Council, and we have some input as to who may want this land to make that decision.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Right.

Councilwoman Tasco

And then we give you the ordinance conveying the deed to PAID to continue the settlement. It's a little backwards for me. Once we give you the authorization...

Ms. Schlotterbeck

That is our process. One particular parcel was outside of our normal --

Councilwoman Tasco

No, but 81 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 I'm not talking about this land; I'm talking about the process. I'm talking about how the process is a little backwards to me. It seems to me that after this discussion, we ought to know who the possible purchasers of the land might be.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Right.

Councilwoman Tasco

What if they want to put on the land, and then we give our input into that thought, then we give you the authorization to enter into an agreement with PAID to do whatever they do to convey the land and blah-blah-blah-blah-blah at the settlement table. 'Cause what you just said, Mr. Schwartz, is that you conveyed this at the settlement table -

Mr. Schwartz

Right, but I believe --

Councilwoman Tasco

-- once all the negotiations are done and the 82 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 purchaser is identified.

Mr. Schwartz

That's correct, but I --

Councilwoman Tasco

So we give you the right to do this now without any further involvement so we don't know who might purchase the land, what they will purchase it for. And so, it seems that we are -- this process is a little convoluted.

Mr. Schwartz

Sure. And just two comments. One is that PAID doesn't take title; they hold it until they're ready for the final disposition. And I think the reason, as the Commissioner, mentioned they had short-listed, and they want to close this summer. So I think the reason it's here now is a timing issue. But I think the Commissioner indicated that on Wednesday, she'll bring you the end-user for your review 83 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 and then the consideration of the bill.

Councilwoman Tasco

But you all are missing the point. The point is that this process is backwards. The next ordinance, 070438, says the same thing. Now, there doesn't seem to be any urgency about that. I'm talking about the process of how we convey the land to PAID so that PAID can do the final settlement, whatever you need, and I don't know the process and I'm not a Realtor.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Actually, Bill 070438, we know who's buying it and we know the value of it. That's -- what you're asking is the normal process. What you're saying the is that's how we normally do it. We identify something for sale, we use PIDC to market it for us, do an RFP. Oftentimes Councilpeople come to us with a buyer. You know, we have an appraisal. Sometimes it works that 84 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 way. We then identify the winner, if you will. We then come before you, asking permission. And normally, I know -- I have a conversation with the affected Councilperson, and they know that PRPA is going to buy this for this use, and the value is 1.6 million. I mean, that's a known fact.

Councilwoman Tasco

So you're saying that normally, you come to us once you have identified the purchaser and all of that.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Right.

Councilwoman Tasco

And you give us all of that information at the time we pass the ordinance.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Correct.

Councilwoman Tasco

You're saying this one piece is out of the ordinary.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Yes.

Councilwoman Tasco

Is that 85 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 what you're saying?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

That's what I'm trying to explain, yes.

Councilman Kenney

No, two pieces.

Councilman Clarke

Two of the ordinances.

Councilman Kenney

There's two ordinances that are out of the ordinary today.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yes.

Councilman Clarke

Commissioner, so you would not have a problem if Council, by ordinance, required that you have the ultimate purchaser identified prior to the authorization to PAID to purchase or convey the land since this is abnormal, and it would be...

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Normally, we do. Actually -- and I always do. I don't --

Councilman Clarke

Yeah, I 86 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 understand it's not a requirement. I mean, you normally -- and I agree 'cause I've been involved in these hearings a lot of times. You normally come to us with a purchaser or a developer and the deal that has to be consummated, but you would not have a problem if there was a requirement by ordinance for you to have the end-user identified prior to the request for authorization to convey to PAID for ultimate consummation of the deal.

Mr. Schwartz

(No immediate response.)

Councilman Clarke

And I know you want to have some flexibility to -- in the case that we're going on recess or whatever, but you can see that this is a problem.

Councilman Kenney

Mr. Chairman --

Mr. Schwartz

This really is not -- I mean, that's why Episcopal is here today, in case there's any 87 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 questions about the real estate. I mean, normally, I don't have any objection to it being a requirement. To be frank about it, I can't -- I wouldn't come before the committee if I already didn't have buy-in by the Councilperson. I know better.

Councilman Kenney

I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, but on these two bills, where's the buy-in?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Well, I've actually had conversations with the Council President about what was going on, who the three short-listed firms were, what the negotiations were, and what they were trying to accomplish. She does know that. But these two are unique; the Emerson and the other parcel are unique in the way we normally do things.

Councilman Kenney

But think about this: You came here today with these bills and if we were snoozing up here, we would have just, by normal 88 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 course of business, approved those things, and you go along your merry way and you pick whoever you pick, and then they start doing their operation, and people, and if something goes wrong, they say, "Well, what are you doing?"

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Right. No, I understood.

Councilman Kenney

I mean, I don't think three short-listed firms is enough specifics for me individually.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

No, understood.

Councilman Kenney

I mean, don't give me three and you're going to pick one. I need to know who's going to be where and what they're going to be doing and that they're going to be paying for it and who are the principals involved and what other companies and entities do they run, and do they have a track record. All of those lists of questions. It's just... 89 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Okay, that's fair. I mean, that's normally the way we do it, Councilman, so...

Councilman Clarke

All right. So those two bills, Wednesday, 11:30 you'll have the specifics and the principals on those.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Yes.

Councilman Clarke

The remaining bills on the calendar that authorize an agreement between Public Property and PAID, you do have an end-user.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Yes.

Councilman Clarke

All right. And with the understanding that there's probably going to be some legislation coming out of this body to some degree altering the process. I'm just giving you notice. It's not a question. I'm just giving you notice, okay?

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Okay. And so in the vein that I could not come 90 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 before you again without having an identified --

Councilman Clarke

Well, this is not the first time that we've had this conversation.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Yes. No, I know.

Councilman Clarke

Don't worry about today.

Mr. Schwartz

All right, okay.

Councilman Clarke

Don't worry about that today. Councilwoman Tasco?

Councilwoman Tasco

I know this is not a hearing on the operations of PAID, but since we had a citizen to raise some issues and you're here, Mr. Deegan, could you please respond.

Mr. Deegan

My name is Paul Deegan, D-E-E-G-A-N, and I represent PAID and PIDC. I've met Mr. Ali. I'm not sure which specific questions you would 91 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 like me to respond to; I think he had a few questions.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, it's information, public information, that he stated he had requested.

Mr. Deegan

Yeah, I'm surprised to -- and I'd like to talk to him and find out which pieces of information he hasn't gotten that he's requested so that I can make sure that he does get the information.

Councilwoman Tasco

This 30-member management board, it -- he said he tried to attend the meetings and was told he could not attend the meeting; is that true?

Mr. Deegan

Oh, PIDC is the 30-member board he's referring to, and PIDC is a private nonprofit corporation, and the meetings are not public. PAID is a public authority, which PIDC makes recommendations to PAID. PAID is a public authority 92 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 covered by the Sunshine Act so that those meetings are public. And I'm sorry if we haven't provided him with all of the information that he requested and I'll, you know, get a list of things that he's asked for and hasn't received and get back and go to work on them. But that's the process and, you know, we welcome anybody to come to the PAID meetings. We publish notices of them, we distribute information, we answer any questions. And Mr. Ali has attended these meetings and asked specific questions and I thought we had answered his questions but apparently we haven't, and I'd be happy to go back between and provide whatever answers he feels are necessary.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Councilman Clarke

Councilman Kelly? 93 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430

Councilman Kelly

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Commissioner, I'm just curious, this morning, we have about 6 bills. Is this just a coincidence that 7 it's always a week before our recess 8 that -- you know, I'm a little, I 9 guess, concerned that sometimes that we 10 could miss something, as Councilman 11 Kenney pointed out, with these two 12 bills. 13 You know, it seems to me it 14 may be a rush to judgment here that you 15 throw all of these bills together and 16 then we have very little opportunity to 17 really go through these bills. 18 And I don't know whether it's 19 just a coincidence that you have 20 of 20 these bills just merged into, you know -- before June 14th or whether you had some of these bills already ready to go months ago. And I don't know what the rationale is to bring them all together at one time. 94 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 Just curious.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

It -- it's not any covert operation or anything. I just -- basically what happened --

Councilman Kelly

No, I have the utmost confidence in your office, believe me, and you, Commissioner, I have no problem. But I think that it's something that we could look at and saying that what is the reason, what's the rationale of having all of these bills in here at one time in one committee session.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Well, I've been working on a lot of different real-estate transactions for a long time, and they do -- each one of them takes a lot of time. And then they -- I need cooperation and time from the Law Department and it gets -- it just -- I don't know. It just happens that they seem to always happen in groups. 95 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430

Councilman Kelly

Okay.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

I mean, I have all types of bills here today. Some of them are sales, some of them are leases.

Councilman Kelly

Yeah, most of them, I'm sure, are routine.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

In the cases of the leases, they're saving a lot of money, so it's like -- But everything was negotiated and time was spent. They don't happen real quick. Real estate is not an easy thing to turn around quickly.

Councilman Kelly

Well, it just seems a coincidence that they all merged just before our break. And it would be nice if we would have these in, you know, different settings or different committee hearings. Break them up a little bit is what I'm saying.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Okay.

Councilman Kelly

That way we 96 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 could take more time with each bill. Okay. Thank you.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

You're welcome.

Councilman Kelly

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Councilman Rizzo

Mr. Chairman, could I add to that?

Councilman Clarke

Councilman Rizzo?

Councilman Rizzo

Maybe because of the fact that we're just getting hit up with this volume, maybe there's things that you could delay until we get back that you could put a circle around them and say that they're not time-sensitive.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Oh, that's a tough question for me to answer because I'm trying to save money. I'm all over the place. And, again, real estate, there's not nothing about real estate -- you all know that just from 97 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 your own personal -- it doesn't happen quickly.

Councilman Rizzo

But you have to understand our responsibility that we can't rush through things that -- you know, we have the responsibility to act intelligently and with knowledge.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

I understand.

Councilman Rizzo

And when you're dumping stuff at the last minute, it puts us in a really awkward position. So I'm just saying that if there are things that could be delayed in this entire list, tell us. We'll talk more about it later.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Okay.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Councilman. Thank you, Commissioner.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Thank you.

Councilman Clarke

Okay, so 98 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 we're clear on that. We're ready for the clerk -- actually, I think we read the title of the next bill, so we will --

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Are we still on Bill No. 070348?

Councilman Clarke

Yes.

Mr. Deegan

Do you have any more questions? Would you like me to remain here? I'd be happy to --

Councilman Clarke

Yeah, hang around. You can take your seat in the back again, but you may want to hang around here.

Mr. Deegan

I'd be happy to stay here.

Councilman Clarke

Thanks, Mr. Deegan.

The Clerk

(Inaudible.)

Councilman Clarke

We didn't read it? All right, the clerk will please -- Before I proceed, any other witnesses on the last two bills that 99 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070430 we've been discussing? (No response.)

Councilman Clarke

There being none, will the clerk read the title of the next bill. * * * 100 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070438

The Clerk

Bill No. 070438, an ordinance authorizing the Commissioner of Public Property, on behalf of the City of Philadelphia, to execute and deliver to the Philadelphia Authority Industrial Development for nominal consideration a deed conveying fee simple title to certain parcels of land, with the building and improvements thereon, located on the southwest side of East Tioga Street between North Delaware Avenue and I-95, for further conveyance at fair market value, all under certain terms and conditions.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

I'm Joan Schlotterbeck. I'm here today to testify in support of Bill No. 070438, an ordinance authorizing me, as the Commissioner, to execute and deliver to the Philadelphia Authority for Industrial Development for nominal consideration a deed conveying fee 101 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070438 simple title to a certain parcel of land, with buildings improvements thereon, located on the southwest side of East Tioga Street between North Delaware Avenue and I-95 for further conveyance at fair market value, all under certain terms and conditions. This bill will enable the City to convey these parcels to PAID for the Philadelphia Regional Port Authority, PRPA, at fair market value, with the net proceeds being deposited into the General Fund. PRPA is in the process of purchasing 3200 East Tioga and wants to purchase this additional adjacent parcel. The Department supports this measure; and accordingly, I ask for support to approve Bill No. 070438. I also ask that the rules be suspended so that the ordinance may be passed upon the second reading of Council. Thank you. I'm available to 102 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070438 answer any questions.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Commissioner. Any questions of the Commissioner by members of the committee? (No questions.)

Councilman Clarke

There being none, is there anyone else to testify on this bill? (No response.)

Councilman Clarke

There being none, will the clerk please read the title of the next bill. * * * 103 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070446

The Clerk

Bill No. 070446, an ordinance authorizing the Commissioner of Public Property to execute and deliver to the Philadelphia Authority for Industrial Development for nominal consideration a deed conveying fee simple title to certain tracts of City-owned land with the buildings and improvements thereon, known as 234 Diamond Street and 2052-64 North Philip Street, located on the west side of North Philip Street in the City of Philadelphia, for further conveyance at less than fair market value.

Ms. Schlotterbeck

I'm Joan Schlotterbeck. I'm testifying today in support of Bill No. 070446. This is an ordinance 21 authorizing me, as the Commissioner, to execute and deliver to the Philadelphia Authority for Industrial Development for nominal consideration a deed conveying fee simple title to a certain 104 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070446 tract of City-owned land, with the buildings and improvements thereon, known as 234 Diamond Street and 2052 to 64 North Philip Street, located on the west side of North Philip Street in the City of Philadelphia for further conveyance at less than fair market value. This bill will enable the City to transfer the property to PAID for further conveyance to David Auspitz, owner of Famous Deli Street Cookie Company, where the property serve as the new cookie manufacturing plant. The Commerce Department has requested a 50 percent reduction in the sale price due to the creation of jobs the plant will bring. The Department supports this measure; and accordingly, I ask that City Council approve Bill No. 070446. I also ask that the rules be suspended so that the ordinance may be passed upon the second reading of Council. 105 6/4/07 PUB PROP/PUB WORKS - BILL 070446 This is an economic development use. And basically there -- is someone here from Commerce to also testify, but what we're doing here is, we're -- this parcel's being conveyed and they're meeting the required number of job creations as well as the development per acre. So it meets the requirements that they have for economic development, and that's why we're asking to sell it for 50 percent of the value.

Councilman Clarke

Yeah. Actually, you know, that was going to pique my interest when you said "less than fair market value."

Ms. Schlotterbeck

Yes.

Councilman Clarke

I guess I do have a question for the Commerce Department about the guidelines associated with the reduction in the sale of property. (Witness comes forward.)