COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON HOUSING, NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT AND THE HOMELESS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, June 7, 2010, 10:20 a.m. - - - BILL 100159 - Amending Chapter 21-1100 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Community Development," by amending Section 21-1108, entitled "Economic Development," to increase the percentage of funds that must be allocated to economic development. BILL 100160 - Held at request of sponsor. RES. 100379 - To examine the roles of the RDA and the Department of Public Property in improving housing in the City of Philadelphia. COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Jannie L. Blackwell, Chair William K. Greenlee, Vice Chair Darrell L. Clarke Curtis Jones, Jr. Brian J. O'Neill Maria D. Quiñones-Sanchez Also Present: Blondell Reynolds-Brown - - - 2 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Good morning. We thank you all for being present, and we're calling to order the City Council Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development, and the Homeless. We're going to begin this morning with regard to Resolution No. 10 100379, which was introduced by myself to examine the roles of the Redevelopment Authority and Public Property in improving housing in the City of Philadelphia. We would like to inform you that at the request of the sponsor, Bill 17 No. 100160 will be held. We will also consider Bill No. 19 100159, dealing with mixed-use development today. We're going to begin our hearing, and we ask all those Councilmembers who are in the building to come to chambers with regard to our beginning our hearing, but we're going to 3 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 get started, and we will wait for a quorum, of course, before we do any voting. Having said that, we're going to ask the clerk to read the entire resolution with regard to Resolution No. 8 100379.
A resolution 10 calling for public hearings before the City Council Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development and the Homeless to examine the roles of the Redevelopment Authority and the Department of Public Property in improving housing in the City of Philadelphia. Whereas, the Redevelopment Authority and the Department of Public Property have the responsibility to work with the District Councilperson and Councilpersons-at-large to improve the City of Philadelphia; and Whereas, it is vitally important to have a clear, transparent process to accomplish these ends; and 4 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Whereas, the Redevelopment Authority and the Department of Public Property are involved in the acquisition and disposition of properties in our city; and Whereas, the Redevelopment Authority has the responsibility for condemnation and aid of redeveloping blighted neighborhoods in our City; and Whereas, there is much confusion with regard to the role of the Redevelopment Authority and the Department of Public Property to publish these goals... Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Council of the City of Philadelphia that the Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development and the Homeless will hold public hearings to examine the roles of the Redevelopment Authority and the Department of Public Property in improving housing in the City of Philadelphia.
Thank 5 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 you very much. Since there are just a few people, and we promised Pastor Jones -- Reverend Jones is pastor of Bibleway Baptist Church -- that he could come forward, since we have just a few people, we realize that this is pretty much a discussion for us. So, as they say on the inside, those of us who work for City Council and who are Councilpeople and those of us who represent housing agencies, we're going to allow him to come forward, invite him to come forward to begin his testimony, introduce himself to the record. And we will call forward anyone else. I'm not sure if we have anyone else who wants to testify on this bill. I'm not sure about -- I'm not sure about this Belfield property, if this is the bill you want to testify for, or if you want to testify for the housing one. This is the -- all right.
(Inaudible; off-mic.) 6 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Thank you. All right. Then we will certainly call on Sister Habiba Ali next. (Pastor Jones comes forward.)
Pastor Jones, please identify yourself for our record.
Good morning, and thank you for allowing me this opportunity to testify this morning. Councilwoman, thank you for convening these hearings. I serve as a senior pastor of the Bibleway Baptist Church, located at 1323 North 52nd Street, in the Third Councilmatic District in the City of Philadelphia. I am here today to express my concerns and, consequentially, my extreme displeasure and frustration as it relates 7 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 to a series of corresponding vacant lots located at 1326, 1328, 30, 32, 34, and 36 North 52nd Street. These vacant properties are located just across the street, on 52nd Street, from the Bibleway Baptist Church building. I came to the Bibleway Church as senior pastor in January of 1994; and not long after that, in 1997, we began a vigorous pursuit of these properties for development. At the time, these properties were occupied by dilapidated, uninhabitable buildings. And when the buildings were demolished, our church voluntarily, and at our own experience, fenced off the property to prevent the lots from being a further eyesore to our community. We've also utilized our own manpower and resources to keep the grass cut on the lot. We have maintained these properties at our own expense for at least 16 years now. And over the years, 8 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 we have dreamed of a number of projects for that property that would both serve our community and enhance the beauty of the neighborhood. So as of this moment, we have a commitment from Keystone Mercy Health Plan to build a full playground on the site for the children of our community. The bill for the project will be covered in its entirety by Keystone Mercy. And so, it goes without saying that our community could use a safe, off-street, modernized play center for our children. Our church has also paid $850 in January of 2010 to the Redevelopment Authority, the owners of these properties, with the exception of one. We waited patiently for a response, and it was not until we contacted our City Councilperson, Councilwoman Blackwell, that we were given a written response on June 3, 2010, via fax to her office, dated March 30, 2010, but never forwarded to our church. 9 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 I have difficulty understanding the significant time gap between our inquiry, payment, and response. And we followed the procedures and the process set forth by the Redevelopment Authority to the letter, which leaves the question that I would like an answer to, if possible: How do we, as citizens, abide by a process that almost seems nonexistent? And why does it take so long for responses to appraisals, particularly after they have received payment of requested fees? I've asked Mayors Rendell, Street, and now Mayor Nutter, for their assistance in securing these properties. I've been asking the Redevelopment Authority for at least the last 13 years. And I've also approached then-Councilman Nutter, when our church was in the 4th Councilmatic District, and now, of course, Councilwoman Blackwell of the 3rd Councilmatic District, since our church 10 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 was affected by redistricting. Again, this is an opportunity to vacant lots and transform them into a beautiful and safe place for our children to play. This projects benefits not only the church but more so, and most importantly, the residents of Carol and Cathedral Parks, in West Philadelphia. 30, to 36 North 52nd Street at 95,000, for a total of $115,000. And this is for properties that have sat as an eyesore to our community, with absolutely no attention from the City, nor the Redevelopment Authority in at least 13 years. So I respectfully request that the cost for properties, including 1328 North 52nd Street, currently owned by PHDC, be given nominal consideration inasmuch as a reputable and an 11 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES.
100379 accomplished developer has already committed to create a beautiful, safe place for our children to play. And I would like to know, why would responsible adults in positions of such great responsibility sit idly by and allow such an opportunity to evade us. And, again Councilwoman, I thank you for this time to testify.
Thank you very much, Pastor Jones. And I realize that the executive director of the Redevelopment Authority, Terry Gillen, has not yet made her testimony, but I would certainly like to request that she come forward and respond to this. (Terry Gillen comes forward.)
Reverend Jones said he's been dealing with this 16 years, and it's time that we get some kind of response with regard to this. I've spoken to the Mayor about 12 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 it. I've -- we've been doing all we can. Everybody knows about it within the system, but certainly nothing seems to move. And the church has gotten someone to agree to build a playground, to donate it, to build a playground there. And if they had the money to, you know, do it -- with money, everything is easy. But certainly, the church has someone ready to donate a playground right across the street from the church, if they can get this land. So we're asking you to respond and let us know what you can do in this regard.
Sure. Good morning, Councilwoman. My name is Terry Gillen, and I'm the executive director of the Redevelopment Authority. And I do agree that 13 years is a long time. I'll have to go back and figure out why it's been in the system for 13 years 'cause that really is a 13 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 signal that the system's really not working well, because years is a 4 really long time to be sort of in and out 5 of -- I mean, it sounds like it's the 6 third administration that this project's 7 in. 8 So I'll be happy to look into 9 it and get back to you quickly about it. 10
11 Certainly. And for all of those who are 12 here and those who are listening in their 13 offices, we only do this publicly when we can't resolve it privately. All of us, as District Council members and Councilpeople-at-large, have issues in our respective districts that beg a response. And certainly -- certainly, if in 13 years we haven't heard from this, it's just unconscionable. And that is one of the reasons we're having this hearing, because we couldn't get this and many other issues resolved in short order. 14 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No questions.)
As we said, this is a 13-year-old project; the church has been working on it for 8 years. They have people who are willing 9 to donate and build a playground on the 10 spot right across the street from their 11 church; all they need is the land. And 12 it's still hanging in abeyance. And, 13 certainly, we need a response. 14 And this is just an example of 15 why we are having this hearing today. 16
You know, we have to be able to -- we feel that housing, our development agenda in this city is stuck, it's stymied, it's not moving. And we need things to move forward. We're elected to make sure that projects move in our city. We have people who come to us. Those who want to 15 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 buy property haven't been able to buy it. People who need side yards haven't been able to get them. And people like this, churches like this, who have someone willing to build a project for free, and we don't know why -- we don't even know why appraisals take so long. And we believe these appraisals are high; that's one of the questions we want to ask Miss Gillen. But we want to know just how we move from here and when we can expect a response to this issue.
Well, Councilwoman, I hear the last point you made, which is about appraisals, and I share some of your concerns about the appraisal system. Sometimes -- I mean, we know for a fact that appraisals are sometimes inaccurate; and sometimes they come in high and sometimes they come in low. It's very -- it's one of the issues that we've been grappling with a lot. 16 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 So I will be more than happy to take a look at the appraisals here and to find out whether there's something off about the appraisals. I hear you and --
And Dr. Jones said one was for -- what were the two amounts?
Well, 1326 was for $20,000. And 1330 to 36 is 95,000, for a total of $115,000.
And as I said, they have someone ready to donate a playground and build it for them. But it's just unconscionable that you have to wait we don't know how long or why, and we'd like an answer to that, why appraisals take so long; then after you get them, you can't depend on them being fair and honest and that they are compared to projects in that area. We've seen appraisals where 17 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 we're told they're compared to projects in an area so far away that it's an exorbitant amount. It's not compared to like-minded properties on the block. So we would like a -- we're asking you to respond to that as well.
Okay. And can I -- can I ask, Councilwoman, do you have a sense of what you think the appraisals should be? I can talk to your staff about this afterwards, if you want.
I'm -- we believe that they should be given a nominal consideration because they're getting 'em built for free.
And the company is donating all of the labor, donating the playground equipment; they're going to do all of it, if they can get then land. So we're asking for nominal consideration.
Okay, I 18 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 understand.
And thank you, those who have come from your church. Thank you very much. Any other questions?
I think this is a good opportunity, and I've been participating with Ms. Gillen on the Vacant Property Task Force for the City, and I know that the problems that we see as it relates to RDA and this disposition of property and Public Property is not new. But, Terry, for the record, I think if you could provide a summary update of where we are and some of the issues that I think are of concern for us at Council that we're attempting to address as it relates to that discussion.
The vacant 19 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 property discussion?
And the whole disposition, 'cause I think part of the frustration is, you know, everybody's known about the housing alphabet soup that we have, and we are all waiting for an articulation from the Administration about what we're going to do around property in a comprehensive, cohesive way to ensure that we are leveraging our property and property as a resource around community development. And I think the Vacant Task Force, while it addresses some of the issues, it doesn't address the bigger issue, but at least where you think we've made some progress, that should go on the record.
Sure. Thank you. Yeah. I've certainly been working with the Redevelopment staff since I came into the Redevelopment 20 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Authority two years ago to try to figure out how we can reform the City's vacant property system, which is clearly broken. I mean, it's -- you know, the example that was just here is a symbol of how broken the system is. And there have been many studies documenting that the system doesn't work, that vacant land is sitting out there 10, 20, 30 years. And there have been various attempts to try to fix the system; I would say none of them have really been able to get at some of the fundamental problems. So early last year, in early '09, we became a part of a national vacant land coalition because this is, as you can imagine, a problem that many cities are seeing. And there are a number of cities that have really tackled this issue in a way that I think is worth looking at. And so, as part of a Ford Foundation-funded effort, our staff got 21 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 trained a little bit in some systems that have been developed in the Midwest, most notably in Genesee County, Michigan, which is where Flint, Michigan is, which completely overhauled their system I would say about six years ago in a way that -- what Flint essentially does is, it's brought the land management part of the government together with the tax foreclosure part of the government. And they've determined that one of the main reasons for vacant land sitting out there is because the sheriff's sale process essentially was broken in Flint. And so, what they've done is, they've revamped the sheriff's sale process so that properties now go through the tax foreclosure process in no 20 more than three years. And as a result, vacant land doesn't sit out there for longer than three years. So they've completely revamped the sheriff's sale part of the process. 22 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 As a result, they then take all of that land into a publicly-controlled land-bank system that does a couple of things. The first thing is that it sets up clear and transparent rules about how you sell land and how you give it away so everybody understand the rules. So that if they've all determined that certain uses need to be get nominal consideration, the way we do in Philadelphia, we've decided that we'll give a property away if it's for affordable housing. They list all of that. Or they'll say, for certain types of uses, it will be less than fair market but it won't be zero. So everyone, you know, the city council and all of the land management agencies have gotten together and have determined what the rules of the game are so that developers understand. What that enables them to do is get to scale because, rather than in Philly, where every transaction is being 23 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 done one at a time -- and we never get to scale. We've got 30, 40,000 vacant properties out there, and we're not going to fix this problem if we keep doing it in onesies and twosies. The appealing thing about their system is that it enables them to get to scale, and the land bank agency, which is self-funded because of the foreclosure situation, then has the resources to do the development and to get the properties out. So they feel that it's been a success. So in Philadelphia, what we've done is, we've started to take a look at that system and to think about would what that sort of system look like in Philadelphia. Not saying we're going to import it to Philly but to take some of the elements of that system and think about what that would look like in Philadelphia. And one of the things, Councilwoman, that you've been helpful in 24 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 helping us think about is that, obviously, different neighborhoods in Philadelphia have different needs.
And so, it may be that in certain neighborhoods where we have a really healthy market, we want to sell the property for fair market value. But in other neighborhoods, where the market's not so strong, we need to give it away or to do a nominal or a less-than-fair-market consideration. So I think the ability to rank the neighborhoods and to really make the disposition sort of dependent on the neighborhood considerations is one of the ideas that we're exploring, 'cause up until now, we've had this one-size-fits- all policy. And what we've learned, I think, and what other cities have learned too -- I mean, we're just sort of piggy- backing on it -- is that one size just doesn't fit all, and we've got to have a more nuanced, sort of market-based 25 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 disposition system that really is going to be more responsive, I think, to the needs especially of the District Councilmembers. I also just want to make one more point, which is that we are working with other cities in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. They're, you know, not only Pittsburgh, and Allegheny County but many cities in Pennsylvania, and we've been working with the Housing Alliance of Pennsylvania because there is -- there are different people in the state looking at how to reform this system on a statewide basis, and we're -- you know, we're working with that group as well. It may be that in the next term of the General Assembly, we'll be able to work with members of the General Assembly to try to get some of the tools that I think we don't have in Philadelphia to bring around vacant land reform.
Yeah. I think one of the frustrations -- 'cause I 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 think everybody knows that our systems are broken and we have to fix it. I think until we get to that, to whether we decide, whether it's land banking, virtual land banking, or whatever, I think what my Council colleagues and I would like to see is, can we at least agree on a process in the interim, where good projects, like the one being spoken about this morning, do not get held up in our deciding where we're going to go for the future.
And I think it's incumbent of us -- I mean, many of us are frustrated as it relates to NTI, October tax-credit deals, the timeline is set that while we wait out this reform process, and we know it's going to take quite a bit time, there are things that are being stalled. And I think it's important to note that a lot of these projects, or potential projects, are things that 27 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 people have been working on for a very long time. So I guess, is the Administration at this point willing to say, you know, let's move this bottleneck and let's get through what we have in the pipeline or in the stuff that's bottlenecked, and then let's engage in a dialogue around some shared responsibilities in this. And I think that's where we're at. I was a little disappointed that in the meeting hosted by Councilwoman Blackwell that you were not present, because I think that rather than get to a hearing stage -- although we should have hearings 'cause I think it's important for people to hear the complications and the frustrations of all of this --
-- I think that we could be at a better place now. And it's very difficult for us to 28 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 potentially lose NTI money and tax credit deals because we want to get it right and perfect, and we're not going to get it right and perfect. Do you think that we are going to be able to work through the summer on some of this so we can move these projects?
Yeah, Councilwoman. Absolutely, Councilwoman, absolutely. And I think that's a good way to put it because I do think you're right. I think we've got to work on an interim basis at least to try to get these projects moving now, while we try to do long-term reform. I think it's sort of like changing the tires on the car while you're driving the car. I think we've got to do both of them. And I'm not the expert on VPRC. I'll just say for the record that even though VPRC projects get disposed of 29 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 through the Redevelopment Authority, we do not staff the vacant property system, so I'll let the Public Property Commissioner and the Director of the Housing Office talk about that in more detail. But, as you know, we have been trying to move the VPRC backlog. When we came in, there was a huge backlog in the VPR system. And my staff, working with those staff, have tried to figure out, are there any of these projects are pretty -- that we can all agree need to move immediately, where we can all agree that these fit certain criteria that make sense to move. And, you know, we've -- and your staff has been incredibly helpful with that process and unbelievably knowledgeable and really helpful in helping to move that forward. So I think we're committed to that. I understand the frustration on NTI. I think a lot of these projects 30 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 would benefit from NTI dollars. It's not my fault that the NTI faucet was turned off; it's not anybody's here's fault that the NTI faucet was turned off. Happily, it's been turned back on, so I think now, any land acquisitions that need NTI dollars can move forward, you know, and we're prepared to certainly move those this summer.
So will RDA be leading that process of NTI? And when can we begin to sit down to talk what's our NTI pipeline?
We do -- we will not lead it. We will -- our staff will certainly do all of the acquisitions. But the way the -- it's going to be similar to the way it works before the faucet was turned off so that you all, I think, had meetings Deb McCulloch, the Housing Director. She's got those lists from last fall; I think she's in the process of updating them with you guys. And when those lists are -- and for some 31 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 of you, we know that the list is ready to go now. And so, we have this internal committee that used to be called IRAT, the Inner Agency Review-something or other, that we have that exists now. And the internal committee is the Office of Housing, staff from the Redevelopment Authority, staff from the Mayor's Office, staff from Commerce, and staff from Planning that get together and review all of those projects, make a recommendation to the Chief of Staff. Because, as you may remember, as a result of the Controller's audit, now the final responsibility, which wasn't in place before, now rests with the Chief of Staff's office. So anything that needs Chief of Staff sign-off we'll send over there. But in most cases, it will be pretty standard to just move the land acquisitions along. And all of that is in place now. So I would say, you know, we're 32 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 prepared to move all of this summer. And we're mindful of the bond deadline, so we understand that it's going to be a lot to crank out this year.
I mean, we've gotten very comfortable with having Governor Rendell and Brian Hudson and those folks. But, you know, if we don't take advantage of this next round --
Exactly, exactly. And we are, you know -- and, fortunately, we believe we have not lost any tax credit opportunities as a result of NTI. The City got its full share of tax credit funding in the last round. But the Mayor has instructed us to make sure that we get our full share going forward. So we 33 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 will work with any tax-credit deals to make sure that that process moves quickly.
Thank you. I don't want to manipulate it. I don't know if anybody else --
Madam Chair, are we going to have the other witnesses, or should we just proceed with Terry?
We have Sister Habiba Ali. I don't believe that... And I believe that -- I don't see Steve Williams from the Partnership CDC or Michael Mattioni.
Yes, he's here. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's in the back.
Oh, Steve's back there. Yeah, so we will 34 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 have them, so we will...
We will allow our guests to testify; there's only a handful. That's why did it in reverse. Then we will come back to ask. And during the interim, we ask the executive director of RDA, we really want specific times. Working on it over the summer and then we come back in mid-September is not tight enough for me. You know, a person who's been waiting 13 years should be able to know certainly in about a week where we are. And certainly with regard to NTI and these issues, we want specific answers because that's why we're here, 'cause we can't get it done any other way. So that is why we're here to deal with this. So you can consider that while we call up other people to testify. And then we'll take questions. 35 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Meanwhile -- excuse me, Ms. Gillen. (Addressing Councilwoman Miller.) You wanted to ask on this issue. And before the Councilman speaks, let me note that we do have our quorum. Councilman Bill Greenlee is vice chair; he's sitting next to me. Councilman Clarke, Councilwoman Miller, Sanchez, Councilman Jones are here, and this committee does have a quorum. And we do thank Councilwoman Reynolds-Brown who's also here and concerned and thank you very much.
Ms. Gillen, I'm going back to the discussion about the church and the playground and the appraisals. And so, it's for Councilwoman Blackwell's -- hopefully to try to help her.
It would 36 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 seem to me that the logical way for the City to approach this would be to see if the City could lease the ground from RDA, sublease it through the Department of Recreation and Public Property to the church, the church taking responsibility for, first of all, constructing the playground; and secondly, for maintaining it and keeping it up. So the City doesn't have any operating costs to speak of. And that seems like the solution that makes more sense than arguing over whether 115,000 or 50,000 or nominal is the right number, because you don't have the appraisal issue at that point, and you have the public good, with the City not being able to afford to this service either on the construction side or the maintenance/operation side. And it's a win/win from a public policy standpoint. And I would just ask you to consider doing that and ask Councilwoman 37 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Blackwell to -- that's something we can actually move on fairly quickly, if we can do it.
Sure. No, Councilman, that makes great sense. I don't know whether anybody thought of that before; I certainly didn't.
You know, years 11 is a long time, and I don't know what 12 people have sort of been doing for 13 13 years.
But I will absolutely consider that because I think that may be one way to break the impasse.
Thank you. And, Dr. Jones, you can think 38 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 about that as well, as one of the options on the table. Thank you. Steve Williams, Executive Director, Partnership CDC. Is Mattioni Limited here?
Please identify yourself for the record, and thank you for coming.
Good morning. My name is Steve Williams. I'm the executive director for the Partnership CDC. We are located at 4020 Market Street, in the Third Councilmatic District. I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify this morning. The Partnership CDC is coming before the Council to speak about a development that was a partnership between the Partnership CDC and Charles 39 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Lomax Company for the 4500 block of Sansom Street. We were a part of this development that started back in, I believe, 2004. And it was -- approximately units were completed by 7 2007 on the 4500 block of Sansom Street 8 and on South 46th Street in West 9 Philadelphia. Of those 16 units that 10 were developed, two of those units were 11 affordable, and 14 were market rate. 12 The development strategy for 13 this project was to develop the market- 14 rate units and cross-subsidize the 15 affordable units. As I said, this 16 development happened between 2005 and 2007. The Partnership CDC entered into a redevelopment agreement for two parcels, 4530 and 4534 Sansom Street, in March of 2004. As the development of the block progressed, the market-rate units began -- we began doing predevelopment work for these two parcels and submitted the first proposal to develop these 40 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 parcels in 2006. As we moved along, the development partners realized that these units being developed as two standalone were not feasible to stand forward, as the market-rate units started slowing down, which we were using for a cross-subsidization. And during the next couple of years, the financing for these two parcels became very difficult to move forward. I became the executive director in June of 2008. And I was -- I received a letter from the RDA in August of 2008 saying that we needed to move the project forward or we would be in default. I was given a 180-day period. I scheduled a meeting, and I met with RDA and OHCD to discuss the matter. We did have a $80,000 subsidy from the Housing Trust Fund for the project at that time. When I met with them, it became apparent that to try to develop these as 41 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 two standalone projects using the subsidy would not work, that we had to change the mix up. So what I came up with -- I met with Charles Lomax, who was the original partner in the development, and we came up with a development scheme where we would do a duplex that would allow a moderate-rate and affordable unit to be created. So four units will be created on those two parcels. Along with that, we secured financing from a PNC affiliate. At this point, we have financing and the plans that were developed for the site. I reached out to -- I reached out to Councilwoman Blackwell to assist with talking to the RDA and in expressing that we did have the financing and were able to move forward. Unfortunately, in 2009, October, I received a letter stating that my extension would not be granted based on securing financing and having a 42 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 development partner. I acknowledge the delay in developing the parcels, but at this particular point, we've demonstrated that we have a commitment to completing the Sansom project. The CDC has pulled together the financing and the development partner and can move forward immediately. And this would generate four units in the Penn Alexander are catchment area that would allow affordable families to take advantage of a great public school district, which is a great amenity for this. If the -- if we are forced to buy this at market rate, it will eliminate the possibility of doing affordable units in this particular catchment area. Thank you.
Thank you. We're going to ask Ms. Gillen 43 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 to come and respond. This is an area we worked on for many, many, many years. It was a terrible block. And certainly, with Lomax involved -- and we've had -- this was one of the -- that the corner of this block was where the Mayor announced his NTI agenda and the NTI bond that he would float, right at the corner of 45th and Sansom. And so, it's a historic place, and it is one that we've come a long way. And to get funding and be told that projects are snatched back are -- is a big issue. So we want to ask Ms. Gillen to respond.
Sure. Let me just make sure I understand. So you want to move ahead with this project as an affordable housing project not market-rate; is that correct?
Okay. Again, I'll -- I'll have to just double-check on 44 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 exactly where it is. But if it's got financing ready to go, we will grant an extension and move it along. So I -- all I can think is that in general, we're being -- you know, if we look at a project and it's really ready to go and there's plans and financing in place, we're generally granting extensions and letting those things go. So is that the status of this right now?
Thank you. Thank you very much. And thank you both. So we have our answer. We're ready to go. So you will then -- we appreciate getting that issue resolved. And this will raise why -- can Ivan Tancredi and Mattioni come forward. This is a big issue. As you know, Ms. Gillen, we'll talk a little bit 45 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 later, after they testify, with regard to the Sign Center -- I know that's in court -- and other major issues, that Morman Church, issues that are in court, when people who have means are in the process of developing things just don't make sense to us, but we'll talk about that a little bit. Thank you both very much for coming. (Witness comes forward.)
Please identify yourself for the record and begin your testimony.
Council President, John Mattioni for Michael, who's otherwise engaged.
Thank 46 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 you. Thank you for coming. Mr. Tancredi, thank you for what you've done to support projects in the neighborhood over the years.
Madam Chairwoman, Mr. Tancredi has been involved in the business of roofing supply and related products for many years.
He's been in the community for 15 years and completed a significant expansion three years ago with the addition of a 12,000-square-foot warehouse and has made, as you recognize, a substantial commitment to the community.
But at this point, what he would, like, to do is 47 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 start planning for the future. He's attempting to assemble and acquire a number of properties adjacent to his parent location, has widespread community support. And of course, with the present economic situation, doesn't have the ability to immediately undertake the full expansion. But he has, for the past three years, been attempting, through RDA, to prepare for acquiring properties. At that point, if -- and this will all be through private funding. All of his previous acquisitions and expansion have been privately funded. And he has a facility in South Philadelphia. This is his West Philadelphia commitment, and it's a tremendous commitment to the City. The problem we've been having is that it's -- I've been listening to the problems of 13 years and 16 years. And we're almost like babies in the sense that we're only talking about a three- 48 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 year process. On the other hand, that process seems to have ground to a halt. And while we have great assistance from your office and have been working diligently to try to assemble the package and move the project along, we've kind of reached the point of impasse. And so, basically, that's where we are. The facility itself, as you know, is in the 4600 block of Lancaster Avenue. The properties are on Lancaster Avenue and on Merion. And the difficulty, as we said, is the garnering full support from RDA in getting the package together so we could move forward. Our present plan is to acquire the properties for future expansion and, as the circumstances permit, to do that future expansion with -- it's, again, fully privately funded.
Thank you very much. We're going to ask Ms. Gillen to respond to that. 49 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 And keep in mind that Mr. Tancredi and Mattioni Limited have not only tried to expand their business, but they have helped other small businesses. They have contributed in the area and they have hired ten to twelve people from the community to work there. So they have done all the things that we ask businesses to do, and we're asking you to find a way to work with them. Thank you. Ms. Gillen is going to come back.
I started the business in 1981. We have four locations in this city. All of my businesses -- most of our business is done in Philadelphia. All four locations are in Philadelphia; one in South Philadelphia, one west, and two north. Thank you. 50 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
And, Councilwoman, I'm just not familiar with the project, so I will look into it and get back to you within a couple of days and let you know --
That will be fine, because they have been wonderful in our community. Thank you.
As I said, they've hired ten to twelve people, they have other small businesses, they help community groups across the board. And this is an example where the it seems -- we understand that the RDA has been taking properties where there is not a specific plan. But if RDA works with them, they will -- given the economy, they will -- and to acquire the properties, they'll be ready to go. By the time all is done, they should be ready to move. And, hopefully, our economy will change. I don't believe that we 51 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 should penalize our businesses for the downturn in the economy because it means they get punished twice -- punished by the very nature of the economy and then punished again because we won't work with them do be in place to get things done, especially when the Councilpeople agree with them, understand them, and support their projects. So we look forward to hearing from you in a few days about this. Thank you.
Thank you, both gentlemen. And this is an example --
As I said, we'll talk a little later about the Sign Center and this Morman church because these are issues where land was taken back, or threatened to be taken back, because of a lack of an initial 52 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 program with developers that have means. So it's hard enough for small businesses, but for whose who have means and we take 'em back. When this Council has to support by resolution for someone else to get 'em, it doesn't make sense. If we support 'em, why can't we work it out. Sister Habiba Ali, thank you very much. Rays of Hope, come forward and make your testimony. And we believe that is it for community people. If you are here and you would like to testify at this time before we go back to the Administration with regard to this resolution, please let us know. Come to the side, Mr. Christmas will take your any name and we will let you testify. And then it will be our discussion with regard to Redevelopment Authority, OHCD, Office of Housing and Community Development, and VPRC and Public Property. Thank you. 53 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning, Chairwoman Blackwell. Good morning, Councilmembers. And good morning to Council President Verna in the event she's hearing from her chambers. My name is Habiba Ali. I am the founder and executive director of Rays of Hope, Incorporated, which was incorporated in 1993. As most of you know, 'cause I've grown up in front of a lot of you, that I am a formerly homeless woman of four children, who was homeless in Philadelphia in the shelter system in the late '80s. I'm here today regarding a project that is called the Belfield Avenue Development. I notice Miss Millen or Gillen, or whatever her name is, has left, and I would like to hold my comments or statements because she needs to be able to respond. And if she has to take a 54 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 ladies' room or a cigarette break, if she could be made to return to the room, whatever the case is. Perhaps some of staff know where she's gone. Because I've asked several times to meet with this woman, and I have never been given the opportunity to meet and/or speak with her. And she is the first person running the Redevelopment Authority in the twenty-some years that I've been dealing in housing for the homeless and low-income that I have not been granted a meeting or as much as the respect of a phone conversation. This is the first time I've laid eyes on her. At least I know who she is when I see her again. I don't appreciate her leaving. If she has to go to the bathroom, I understand, but I want the same respect that she gave everyone else.
Yes, ma'am. But it's 55 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 imperative that she hears what I have to say.
You can hold your statement. And when she comes back, we'll have you -- she will be right back. Is this there anyone else who wants to testify before we begin our Council discussion? Okay. Then we'll wait a moment.
And as we said and we will repeat when she comes back, we made a copy of our concerns available to her, and we want to go through each one while we're here today, 56 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 to hear her response with regard to those issues.
I would just like to ask, Councilwoman, does the members of the committee have the folder that was supplied from Rays of Hope this morning?
I'll make sure that they -- yes, everyone has their folders. Thank you for making that available because we didn't duplicate it; Sister Ali did.
Okay. So we'll just pause a moment as we wait for her. And, again, I realize where we are in Council at this point on our calendar year. But, certainly, it is important that we deal with these issues, that we have a timeline, and that we understand what will happen so that we 57 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 may clear the air and have a process for moving forward. We can't wait a whole term. Next year, we run for reelection. We can't wait a whole term and then say what's going to happen; it's just too long. And we don't have the -- funds have deadlines, and so do people who live in neighborhoods that need attention. So we're looking forward to full dialogue on these issues. While Ms. Gillen is out of the room... Thank you. So, Sister Ali we'll call you back?
And meanwhile, Sister Judith Robinson, would you come forward. (Witness comes forward.)
Please 58 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 identify yourself for the record and make your testimony. Welcome.
Let me ask the sponsor of the bill if he would like to comment on why the bill is being held, 100160.
Short answer, a short story made shorter. We have worked with the Administration to figure out how to address a more specific need, and it will be addressed in the bill that addresses mixed-use development and dedicating 5 percent of the mixed-use funds going 59 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 towards commercial downstairs and residential upstairs properties. And that will be discussed in that particular portion of the bill. Satisfaction on that bill has led us to at least hold that bill until further notice.
Right. Okay, thank you very much. And I have clarity right now. I'm Judith Robinson, here to testify on Bill No. 100379. And I am very interested in the Redevelopment Authority and their whole process as well as the Department of Public Property. For many years now, I've attended Redevelopment Authority board 60 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 meetings, and they are very, very much instrumental in how our communities develop. That being said, the things I have been concerned about over the years is when -- and I'm going back to Neighborhood Transformation Initiative. When that program was implemented, I know for a fact that people were not getting fair market value for their homes when they were taken through eminent domain. I found out recently that there's a licensed real estate broker on the board of -- not on the board, I'm sorry, that's part of the Redevelopment Authority's process. And now, they're able to use the multiple listing service, the same one we as professionals use. So it's hard for me to understand from using that process that they would have come up with such low market value. If we're all using the same information, why would a market value so low for people who are losing 61 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 their homes through eminent domain, they did not get fair market value, some as low as 3500. And upon protest, I think a few thousands were added to these folks' value at the time that they went to settlement on their property that was taken through eminent domain. I was very concerned about that. Now, I notice that has quieted down a bit; we don't have as much eminent domain. But I'm just saying let's get some clarity here, let's have some real transparency here, because on one hand, you give low market value; when you're taking someone's property through eminent domain, that's the only property they have, they've lived in it for many years, and here you come, government, and you want to take the property. At least give the people fair market value so they'll be able to live the rest of their lives and feel like they haven't been ripped off by the government. So that's one 62 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 area of concern. Consistency in value. When you take property, give fair market value. Then let's talk about disposition. When you dispose of a property, it's a very much inconsistency here. When I found out that there was a professional real estate broker on -- in the process, in the Redevelopment Authority's process, I found that out because they had put a property on the market, using the multiple listing. I said, How did you do that? Oh, well, we have a broker on staff. All right. If you have a broker on staff, use that broker. You're using them for one thing; use them to make sure that people are getting a fair value when it goes to disposition. There's some inconsistencies there. And I don't want to be disrespectful to any of the professionals who are doing their job. But you give a weak, low market value when you're taking 63 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 people's property, and you're given a strange inconsistencies of market value when you go to dispose of a property. It's like wheeling and dealing in real estate. Yes, you are. And you should be fair about it and clear and transparent so everybody can know it is what it is. If you're going to sell property at fair market value, then we all get the same fair market value. I'm concerned that African- Americans don't get the same type of disposition that other folks get; I want to be clear about that. You know, how many African-American developers are there? Are they treated with respect, in the same kind of open-door policy that other folks are? All of these things should be brought to the table, because as we wheel and deal in real estate, I just don't want the time to pass where we play like we don't know who can develop and who 64 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 can't.
I mean, it's not that complicated. Especially with all these deals that are in the paper lately -- $1 for your (indiscernible) here and some wheeling and dealing over here with the children's -- the center, the court center. I mean, it's a bunch of nonsense, especially when we don't have a lot of money, so we say. So some of my questions are: What is the criteria being used to determine who's considered a land developer? You know, what are the open and transparent process that one would have to take to get some land from this land-banking that's been going on for the past 35, 50 years, okay? Let it be open and clear. I want to know -- 'cause I asked this question before -- how much money is left from the NTI? How much money is available? Now, two, as our city moves 65 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 towards selling some of the public land, to be honest with you, I'm really happy about that, but I want to make sure that that process is open and transparent. There are some people who have been waiting to try to get a side yard next to their home, can't get it, it's tied up in legalese. You got letters stating that the property is not available. Sometimes, if it's an abandoned house, it sits and rots while we get this notice saying that it's not available. City-owned properties. City of Philadelphia comes through the Public Property process. Let's make sure it's transparent, let's make sure everybody can partake in the bounty. You never know who has money, and people are looking for opportunities. Let's just hope that we can make this a transparent process, where we go through one, two, three, four, five steps at the maximum to get properties in 66 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 the hands of people who can develop them. I've seen at RDA where you have people who say they're going to develop. They get a chance to stretch their development agreement out, they get all kinds of amendments to it, et cetera. But some people can't even get to first base. How do you do that? Where's the clarity, where's the openness, where is the transparency? Thank you, Madam Chair, for having this hearing today. Maybe I'll have some other questions, suggestions, or answers after I hear some additional testimony. Thank you very much for your attention.
Thank you, Miss Robinson, thank you. Miss Ali? (Witness comes forward.)
And this is our final community person. Then we'll get to our discussions on these issues. 67 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 And as we've said, we've made our concerns available to the Administration. And so, we would like to deal with them issue-by-issue, and that is how we intend on dealing with the rest of this hearing in addition to whatever issues my colleagues may raise. Thank you. Miss Ali?
Thank you again, Chairwoman Blackwell, for allowing me to speak. I'm speaking today, again, on the behalf of Rays of Hope, Incorporated. As I stated earlier, I am the founder and the executive director of it. Rays of Hope deals with housing, the homeless, and low-income. I've had firsthand experience with homelessness. When my children were small, we were in the homeless shelter system in the late '80s. And I was the first-tenant council president of Dignity Housing; I served on their board for many 68 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 years as the first-tenant chair of that organization. It was an $11 million program at the time. I learned quite a bit in those years, working with Dignity Housing, in terms of how the mechanisms of housing works in the City of Philadelphia, with the RDA and OHCD. It's going back as far as Mr. Eisenstat and John Kromer. We have been very successful, though we're very small. 2 million fund from HUD and OHCD to build units in Councilwoman Miller's, the 8th Councilmatic District, at 1735, 7, and 9 Belfield Avenue, which we acquired from VPRC, our nonprofit. Things were moving along very well. And there's documentation that will substantiate everything that I'm saying to you today in terms of the funding that we received, the $200,000 predevelopment money that we received 69 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 from OHCD under Mr. Kevin Hannah at the time and Dainette Mintz as well as Miss Deborah McCulloch. Councilwoman Miller, on our request, met with the authorities at the Redevelopment Authority and OHCD to find out why is it that this project is stalemated. I heard you say a few moments ago, Councilwoman Miller, regarding resources; and if you have money, then you can do things. Well, the money is here; that's not the problem. The money has been allocated. As far as we're concerned, as the nonprofit, our project left OHCD prematurely. It left the predevelopment phase before it was supposed to, to go onto the Redevelopment Authority. We have been stalled for a while because as we signed with an entity that OHCD recommended, they were mismanaging this project. Someone in the office of Diamond & Associates signed a $75,000 contract without our permission 70 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 and/or authority, so we had to let them go, and it stalled this project for a while, until we were able to identify a new technical consultant, and we have, which is Thelma Jackson of TJ & Consultants. Unfortunately, Miss Jackson's on vacation till tomorrow and was not able to be here today. We had a oral commitment from Miss McCulloch, from OHCD, that the Office of Housing and Community Development would support this project, understanding that there were environmental issues when did the eco testing at this site, and there would be additional revenue required. OHCD had made a commitment in a meeting with Councilwoman Miller and with Herb Weitzel and some of Councilwoman Miller's staff. I believe in attendance to that meeting also was Deborah McCulloch, Miss Mullen, Millen -- if I'm saying her name incorrectly, please forgive me, the director of RDA, and 71 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 another gentleman from the Redevelopment Authority. It was stated that if Rays of Hope was willing, because we are new at building from the ground, if we were willing to take a partnership or backseat -- I don't want to use the language that may have been used in that meeting -- to give our project to someone, a developer -- this is HUD money. We can't give this money or reallocate it to anyone other than the nonprofit that it was issued to, that we were willing to join into some type of partnership with a developer, that they would support this project.
I'm happy to say that in this environment of the City and with Mayor Rendell -- I'm sorry, Nutter, stating that he wants Philadelphia to be the first city to go green in the nation, we are blessed to have entered into an agreement with Onion Flats, LLC, who is building in Northern Liberties and are 72 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 building multi-million-dollar properties all over the City and around the country as well as the world, and we were able to do this with the help of Councilwoman Miller and her office. So this nonprofit will be the first nonprofit in the City that will be able to build a hundred percent green housing that's accessible, affordable, low-income for homeless families that are stuck in the shelter system. The money is not the problem. We have gotten -- jointed into -- we have found a developer that is willing to build these houses for the money that is allocated on the table. In the meeting with Councilwoman Miller and her staff, there was a oral made from these powers to be over my left shoulder, stating that they would put the necessary monies together if we were willing to join into a group, to take the backseat, let the developer develop it, let them be responsible, because we haven't built 73 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 from the ground, though we have many years in rehabilitation, and then to turn the project back over to Rays of Hope when we are ready to put the families in the units. We had an emergency board meeting with our consultant. Our board of directors agreed, let's move forward. It's going on two months since we made that decision. It is our understanding and feeling and position -- and we could be wrong; we've been wrong before, and so have these people over my left shoulder. This money is time-sensitive, it is HUD-allocated, it is time-sensitive. You don't have to have a 3rd-grade education to know that they're trying to stall it until you go out on your summer break. We come back in September, we have to have this project done in a certain time frame. Every time I would call the young lady or meet with the young lady, 74 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Miss Holland, who was assigned this, I'm constantly given this document. You have to meet all of these criteria, you have to meet all of these criteria. And I'm sure they have a copy of this criteria; I saw it over there this morning. Well, this is for a development. We are in predevelopment. We have begged and written and pleaded for these powerful people, so they think, to please put this back in predevelopment, take it from development stage because it moved prematurely. I don't know what the problem is. I'm bringing it to you all before I take it to HUD and to Washington and to around this country. If the homeless, handicapped people in this city is not given the opportunity to live in beautiful, subsidized, affordable, green housing due to OHCD and RDA dragging their feet, pushing them from pillar to post, playing ping-pong with us, they will know, 75 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 everyone in this country will know, that the taxpayers' money in the City of Philadelphia is being played with because people can't use the -- I can't get on the phone, or they're traveling, they're in a meeting, we don't know, blah-blah- blah. And then they're going to lie to my Councilwoman. And enough is enough. With these big salaries that they're getting, they need to be held accountable, and they need to be replaced, just like everybody else can be laid off. Welcome to the new world. These people need to be held accountable. This project started in 2004. They have the invoices that they are holding from 2008. They have the invoices, they have the contract, they have the money. I don't know what the problem is. I'm a very excitable person, as you know, Councilwoman, but as you know, I've always been on the side of the poor, 76 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES.
100379 the downtrodden, and the homeless, 'cause I've been there. And I prayed to the creator to help use me to house those people from where I come. I am sick and tired of the political games. I am not getting paid for what I'm doing, I've never done what I'm doing for money. I think that these people get big salaries and forget who it is that they are working for. They are working for the citizens of Philadelphia. You are their bosses. They need to either piss or get off the pot or be laid off or removed or replaced. I'm begging and pleading with you all for these people to tell us why. We have crossed every T, dotted every I, jumped through the circles. When they set the circles on fire, made me put on kerosene underwear, I jumped through 'em backwards and forward. I've done everything I possibly can. If they want Sister Habiba to come with all the masses and the 77 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 bullhorns and the people with the wheelchairs and block traffic and blah-blah-blah, I'm not above doing that. I'm in my fifties now; I don't want to do that if I don't have to. But I am willing to do that. I'm going to the media, I'm going to HUD, I'm going to the White House. I'm coming to you first because it is the right thing to do. I have talked, I have written letters, we have spent money, I'm blue in the face. This is my last resort. The pen is mightier than the sword. They can give you answers today. We need to know by the end of this week what is their position, what is the holdup. Enough is enough. I have had it. The activists are ready to roll.
I'm so sick of tying up traffic because these people are 78 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 acting like they're too busy. Or, you know, just let Rays of Hope -- oh, oh, oh, Habiba. It's not about Habiba; it's about the homeless people in the shelters, where I lived and slept on the floor with my babies that I'm try to provide housing for. The money is there. What is the problem?
Thank you very much. Thank you, Sister Ali. We want to thank you for your passionate testimony. We are going to call them back up now. We've heard your request that you hear by the end of the week. We've talked with Councilwoman Miller, who certainly is concerned as you are and obviously has supported you in the past. And we'll ask that that be our first question to them, to respond within the next few days, as they have on these other projects, that we should hear 79 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 something on them all.
If Councilwoman Miller could please speak on this project, because she has taken the time out of her schedule during all of the budget hearings to talk to these people.
Thank you. Councilwoman Miller? Thank you, Sister Ali.
I just want to add a few words to some of what 80 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 you've already said. And that is that, you know, we've been working with you on this project since 2004, and things seemed to be going, you know, pretty quickly at one point. Then it slowed down, and then we had to get -- do a land substitution. But we did meet what, I guess about a month ago?
I met with RDA and OHCD around six weeks or so or whatever ago --
-- to discuss the final stages, or what I was hoping was the final stages of this project. And at the end of the meeting, there were a couple of things that they asked me to do, which I did, and that was 81 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 talk to you. You talked to your board, and we talked to Onion Flats. And that's where it stopped. So I am very frustrated also. We sent a letter out and sent a e-mail out last week again regarding the status of this project to RDA, Terry Gillen. And I think -- I don't know whether I sent one to Deborah McCulloch or not. But we need to get an answer. We did what you asked us to do; now we need to hear back from you, from RDA and from OHCD.
Yeah, they're coming up now. 82 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
-- professionals have any questions for me or concerns for Rays of Hope.
Okay. You'll be here for a minute, and we'll ask them to respond first and let you know.
Thank you. All right. We're prepared for the Administration to come back. Ms. Gillen, we're prepared for you to come back. (Ms. Gillen comes forward.)
And we will begin our testimony. As we have said, we will deal with the information that you received from me, some two or three pages of issues that we were 83 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 concerned about. And while you do that, I did have a request from Councilman Rizzo's office, and I'll read it verbatim: "Properties disposed of by public agencies in Philadelphia for redevelopment often do not come with clear title because liens for old tax and water bills have not been extinguished by the City. "As a result, old tax liabilities remain with the property and are passed onto new owners, whether a CDC, a for-profit developer, or new homeowner, which can also prevent them from obtaining a ten-year tax abatement. "What can be done to alleviate this issue?" And I'm told by my staff that part of it is the relationship of the City agencies, one with the other, where the right hand should know what the left hand's doing; sometimes they don't. So I'll ask first for a response to 84 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Councilman Rizzo.
Well, without knowing the specifics, it would be hard for me to answer. But I think, Councilwoman, you're correct. The general answer has to do with the various City agencies sometimes having to work on the same parcel of land. And so, you've got Water, Law, Revenue, whatever the disposition agency is, whether that's Redevelopment Authority, Public Property. And so, we spend a lot of staff time trying to clear title on parcels of land. And it's one of the reasons that, as I spoke earlier about, the need for system reform. We've got to have system reform because the amount of time and resources that we use trying to clear title, parcel by parcel by parcel, is just not going to solve the problems in the long term, but that is essentially the theory behind it.
And 85 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 before I call on Councilman Jones, will you resolve -- get back to Councilwoman Miller and myself with regard to Sister Ali, Rays of Hope project. We all know comes here for years and is committed and passionate about she does. Or you may want to ask one of your staff members who are here about this project. Do you want to respond to her issue? MS. McCOLLOCH: My name is Deborah McCulloch. I'm the Director of Housing. I would just say we continue to work with Miss Ali, and she's -- the new developer that's been brought to the table, Onion Flats. We're working with them to try to move the project forward. I think there's still a funding issue that's not resolved yet that we need to work on resolving. And we have committed to the project. The project's listed in the Consolidated Plan that is coming back 86 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 before you later this week, and we're continuing to work through those issues. I don't know what specific paper Miss Ali was showing about what documentation is still needed by the project manager at the Redevelopment Authority, but we can follow up on that and get clear answers about what is still needed to move it forward. But I reiterate, we're still committed to the project.
Yes. It's my understanding that the federal funding will no longer be available after August. Will she lose that funding, that McKinney money. MS. McCOLLOCH: August is not the deadline that I understand for the McKinney funding, but the McKinney funding is through the Office of 87 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Supportive Housing, and I can follow up with my colleagues there to confirm what the date is. But I do not believe that it was an August deadline. So it's not my understanding from the last time when we met.
Okay. Well, someone actually told me that after August, she will lose that funding. So for us -- and we will confirm it too. MS. McCOLLOCH: Okay. I will follow up.
We will confirm it also. So for us, time is very important.
Will you get back to us on this -- MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
-- within a matter of few days as with as with the others? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
Okay. 88 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Thank you.
Thank you. Before I call on you, Councilman Jones, Councilman O'Neill?
Madam Chair, I have a meeting in my office. I would just like, in case I don't get back, to have my vote recorded as aye on Councilman Jones's amendment and bill, as amended, which I expect to be the case.
Thank you, Councilman. Certainly leave is granted, and thank you for your support on the legislation. (Addressing Ms. Gillen and Ms. McCulloch.) Oh no, we need you to stay here. We are at that point in our hearing. Councilman, now we're back to the issue that was raised before we deviated back to make sure Sister Ali was respected. Councilman Jones? 89 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Yes. I would like if you and Miss McCulloch could just, for purposes of general understanding, a lot of people that actually during the day tune into these proceedings and don't have the benefit of the knowledge base that some of us that do this for a living have but are nonetheless impacted by it. In general, a piece of property -- and I know it varies. But in general, from the time someone gets a good idea to do a project to the time it's conveyed to a developer for purposes of development, what's the average time?
Boy, I don't even know that -- I wouldn't even know how to give you an answer, Councilman. I know that at the Redevelopment Authority, if everyone is moving, it can move in -- it certainly moves in less than a year. I can't tell 90 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 you for Public Property -- you'd have to ask them -- 'cause that's a different system, that's the Vacant Property Review Committee system.
And it was my standing way back in another lifetime that the Vacant Property Review Committee was put together for the purposes of expediting and moving properties, and it was Council's bill, to have a group of entities at the same table -- whether it was Public Property, PIDC, and at some point, PCDC was there -- in order for them to see things that came into public domain, figure out collectively its highest and best use and then dispose of them in a way that was beneficial both to the public and to the City. And now, we have that entity and the entity that I just heard you talk about. Can you explain the disposition process, the property disposition process in the City of Philadelphia for a 91 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 layperson in plain speak?
And with that regard, we support the legislation, obviously, that Council passed, and we also support -- what's our bill number, 17500? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 16400.
16400, that certainly empowered the Vacant Property Review Committee to dispose of properties. It is -- Council created that legislation because we needed it to be able to service members in our community, service the homeowners, service people in need with side yards, to be able to come up with a way to give properties out nominally, to help develop neighborhoods. And we believe in that. We're having a hard time getting things moved, and that's in keeping with -- I'm sure that's part of the intent of this question as to why it takes so long, why aren't these moving. Now, we're reasonable people. 92 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 All of us have been involved in development for a lot of years; and even our new folks. As we all know, Councilman Jones was head of PCDC. And we all know about Councilwoman Quiñones's role in her area, in doing development. She's headed many groups in education and housing, which is one of the reasons she's here. And Councilwoman Miller and I have been dealing with housing in our area even as Councilpeople for many, many years. So we understand when there are legitimate concerns about holding land transfers, land conveyances, holding things up. But, honestly, we don't see why it takes long, why our VPRC can't work, why people have to wait for appraisals. I remember years ago -- one year, I had eight hearings under former Councilman Street in June. Between May and June, we had eight hearings to deal 93 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 with these kinds of issues. And at that time, we were told the City was hiring appraisers, that was the problem. But here we are again with things stopped and with my colleague asking for a process to answer the questions of what happens with properties. And inherent in that answer that's (indiscernible) to deal with it, I know that the Science Center, I know that the Morman Church, I know that these projects with people with means, I know you can't respond technically because they're with the Sign Center, they're in litigation. But since we -- and this is a long question, but you can answer it. But since we have to introduce, by resolution, legislation that will inveigh you to convey it to somebody else, why fight projects that we support in the beginning in our areas when you got to come back to us to reconvey? If you take 94 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 it back, we're not going to reconvey it to somebody we don't believe in. And so, we don't understand that, nor do we understand why there's still an issue about properties going to the board before they come to us, going to the RDA Board before they come to us in areas, because we know what communities will accept and what they won't. So all of that is the same part of Councilman Jones's question.
But we can repeat it all if we need to. If I gave you too many pieces at once, we can repeat it all.
That's okay. What I will do is, I'll answer the part of Councilman Jones' question that relates to the Redevelopment Authority, and then I'll allow the folks who run VPRC to answer the part that relates to Public Property. 95 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 So I can tell you that -- your question was about disposition, right? That when we -- right now, we have any number of ways that that we'll dispose of a property. But, basically, the Redevelopment Authority disposes of a property at fair market value unless it's for an affordable housing project; in which case, we can dispose of it for nominal value. The way try to establish fair market value is either through an appraisal or through putting it out, say, up on the market or -- so we can either -- we now list all of our property on our website. So if someone called us up and said, Hey, I want to buy, you know, 1234 Market Street, what would that cost? we would either ask them to pay for an appraisal. We'd go and get an appraisal and then tell them what the property costs. 96 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Or the other way we can do it is, we are starting to think about putting properties up on the multiple listing service and then seeing what people offer us by doing it. So we just sold a property, for example, on Hancock Street, an historic property in Old City, that had been appraised at a certain number. It wasn't moving, it sat there for about two years. And so, what we did was, we put it up on the Website. And the number came in a little bit lower. But we felt like that was the legitimate fair market value for that property. And it's now being rehabbed. And it was for about $350,000, so we got a substantial amount of money. So, that's essentially the way the Redevelopment Authority disposes of property. I want to address Councilwoman Blackwell's -- sort of two questions I think were in there. 97 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 One is, I agree with you. I think that we're in agreement that we should be sharing this information with you earlier in the process. I think, when I came into the Redevelopment Authority, we were -- we got lots of complaints from developers, I'll just say, or from folks out trying to buy parcels who said that they thought that sometimes the process of having to go to Council slowed things down. So, frankly, we took a look at that whole process, but I think there are ways now that we can make sure that it moves, while still sending it to you guys earlier in the process.
We don't slow it down. Your department slows it down, not us. We have the people who ask us.
Like I've said, many times, back in 1999, we had a PowerPoint, we tried to market our area. We had 30 developers who wanted to come in to get properties.
That's when we could -- VPRC could give properties nominally. They could go for tax credits, and it worked.
Now, to try to do it in reverse, I mean, we don't know what the board may try to agree to. And then we've got zoning issues that we have to go to communities about and all of that. We're clear on what our neighborhoods want. We do not slow the process down; it is your department that slows the process down, not us. 99 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Or you who slow the process down. The people who work for you aren't trying to slow it down, but you won't free stuff up and let things go. It is you who slow us down, not -- your departments. You have people who work for you, people who work for the City we worked with for many, many years, 12 years, 30 years, 35 years. We kind of 13 all know how to work together. We accept 14 the rules that we need to accept. We're 15 okay. 16 But you at the helm have to 17 agree to let things go and let us work 18 and let us do the things that we need to 19 do to improve our districts and improve 20 the quality of life in our city. We can do it if you let us.
That's why we're here at this hearing. Councilman Jones, she said she 100 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 was answering the question. And then Councilwoman Miller.
You kind of got passionate about this issue, which I appreciate, Madam Chair. My question was more germane to a couple of specifics.
One, if we have a half dozen agencies that have the ability to hold and/or acquire property ranging from Philadelphia Housing Development Corporation, Redevelopment Authority, the Philadelphia Industrial Development Corporation, Public Property, PHA, the Sheriff, and a sundry number of others, what is confusing to me and this body and probably dreadfully confusing to a community person and/or developer, God forbid, in a recession, what door to go through, what process to begin, and how to do that. So my question becomes: If you want to develop a parcel, A, in a org 101 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 chart that we talked about, in a process evaluation review technique, where does it begin? Does it begin at sheriff's sale? does it begin in the Vacant Property Review Committee? does it begin talking to your Councilperson? If you were answering a developer, not just for your agency but for the City of Philadelphia, is there a PERT chart that someone with moderate intelligence can look to, to gain access to property information today?
All right. So there is no predictability, there is no transparency because it -- and not to say that in a nefarious way, but there is no openness to how to acquire and have interest in properties in the City of Philadelphia. So it's left to the silos to determine. And if you're lucky enough to walk through one door, there it is. But 102 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 if your misfortune is to call 4-1-1, you could be on a merry-go-round until the next recession. So the point -- I understand that you guys have taken this on, and I think it's an important thing to let this committee know how to try to make sense of this. And I wanted to know where we are in the process of providing the public with a -- or developers or people with engineering degrees on how this property acquisition disposition process in the City of Philadelphia works. And I know you were working on it, and I wanted to get a update on it.
Well, yeah, I share your frustration. It is a source of just wonder to me that we are where we are today. I agree with you. I can tell you that the Redevelopment Authority has pretty good data. We are -- you know, we're trying to work with the other land-holding agencies. We have a pretty good 103 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 relationship with PHDC. As you know, the Mayor appoints that boards, I sit on that board, Deborah McCulloch sits on that board. So we are now in the process of putting together a pretty good list that PHDC has developed. And there's no reason that I believe, by the end of this year, which, I think, gets to Councilwoman Quiñones's point, that in the interim, there are things we ought to do. I think there's no reason that by the end of this year we couldn't have a single list at least of the Redevelopment Authority, PHDC, and Public Property properties posted on the City's website, with a phone number or someone that somebody should call to say, I want to buy one of these. Because your point is that a developer doesn't want to have to go to three different agencies, and they shouldn't have to. And I think that's an interim solution that we could put 104 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 together, because we've got the technology to put together. And some of it is just a question of staffing that Public Property's staff and our staff would have to work together, but I think that's certainly an accomplishable goal. So that's all I can tell you, but I don't want to speak for Public Property because they're here and they should speak for themselves.
I happen to know, Madam Chairwoman, that there are developers that come to Philadelphia from New York and surrounding areas with a interest and intrigue as to how our property values are so much lower than Washington, D.C.'s, so much lower than New York's, and we are strategically located in between the two, that a lot of people are looking for North Philly to be the fifth borough of New York based on the transit ability to get to that area. But there is a constant frustration of 105 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 how to plug in. And if we are in a recession and if we are looking in the couches for quarters to balance budgets with 6 million here and 20 million there short, 7 these are ways that we can build our way 8 out of our condition. 9 And it is frustrating when 10 people do come to us, not for any other 11 personal interests other than they are 12 interested in my district. They say, 13 Well, how do I get started? who do I talk 14 to? where is the line? where do I bid? 15 Those kinds of things. 16 And, again, we have to have a 17 city process, because when I start 18 explaining to them alphabet soup -- PHD, 19 RDA, PHA -- I mean, their eyes glaze 20 over, and they pack their bags and move to Camden. And I'm saying that we have to address this. Councilwoman Blackwell makes a excellent point. We're in the third year of this administration, third year of 106 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 this administration. If you're talking about next year, well, there's four years of -- you know, I used to go at PCDC to ribbon-cuttings all the time; it was one of the favorite part of my job. And we have slowed that down almost to nonexistent; I haven't used those scissors in quite some time, and I'm wondering if I ever will if we don't start churning the pump. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. You know, I just want to say that I have the same concerns that you've expressed. And, certainly, I think the public needs to be educated on how to purchase properties. I had this discussion last week with Joan Schlotterbeck regarding the surplus property, and I just think the 107 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 public needs to be more aware of how to get a property and what the steps are for acquisition. But I also just want to make some of my own comments. I'm glad to hear, Ms. Gillen, that you decided that it's best to talk to City Council early on in the process rather than later. When did you make that decision? I mean, how long in terms of time?
We've been sort of inching in that direction, but a couple weeks ago, after talking to some Councilmembers and to folks in the Redevelopment Authority.
Okay. You know, one of the things that I keep hearing -- and I'm very frustrated. I've been here for a while and, you know, out in the community before I came here, was involved in development and building. And at this point, I'm frustrated. Someone called me the other day and wanted to know what they should 108 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 do to acquire properties. I said, you know, I haven't had it in so long, I forgot. And I feel that way. Who is in charge here? Who reports to RDA? Who reports to you? Does OHCD report to you?
Okay, 'cause it seems like, you know, there's some influence going on, things changed. We've been working -- I've been here 14 years, and I've been working with OHCD and PHDC and all of these agencies for a number of years. And it changed two years ago, it changed when you came. And I thought that actually everybody -- I thought that you were influencing other departments because they report to you.
Okay. 109 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 One of the things that in terms of holding up development, I get calls all the time, people actually saying what Habiba said, that she cannot get a return phone call. I get calls from developers that say that they call you in particular and cannot get a return phone call. So for anyone to even imply that City Council would hold any development up is just a little bit -- a little bit crazy, because we're interested in rebuilding our neighborhoods. We would not be there to hold up any development. One of the other rumors that I hear is that a lot of the new people that you've hired think that we don't know what we're doing, and some of the other parts of that comment I'll have the same -- I'll have to save it and have a private discussion about some of the other comments I've made -- I've heard about Councilmembers. You know, we were here, we've 110 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 been here a long time, most of us. I think you and Maria and Curtis came at the same time. But the rest of us have been here for a while. And most of us, our only interests is in developing neighborhoods. Rays of Hope. I drove through Belfield Avenue last night on my way home from an event, and I showed my girlfriend a site there, and we also looked at that entire block. There's so much work to be done on that block. If we can get this project started, we're hoping it will kick-start other interests. I mean, people have the nerve to have a for-sale sign up at a house that looks like it's falling down and a for-rent sign. So, you know, we want this done, we want to get it done as soon as possible. We don't want next winter to come and can't break ground because it's too cold and the ground is too hard. I don't know the reason for that. 111 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 But I'm just perplexed over -- I feel like I'm in a fight, in a struggle, and I don't want to be like that. I didn't come here to fight, I didn't come here to be frustrated. Something's not happening right. And we have to move this rebuilding-our-neighborhood agenda forward. I don't want to fight you. I don't want to fight any housing agencies. So whatever the holdup is -- and if we all need to sit down maybe together again and get it done, we need to sit down and discuss this stuff, air it out. We are going to be here. Whether the RDA and its staff likes it or not, we will be here. Our interest is in rebuilding neighborhoods. And we need you. We should be partners, we should not have to struggle like this; it doesn't make sense. If I call you, call me back. 112 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 If I e-mail you, e-mail me back.
Well, Councilwoman, I do want to say that I'm surprised to hear anybody say that I wouldn't call or e-mail anyone 'cause I --
No, ma'am. I respectfully but firmly disagree with that. I have to say that I have a pretty firm rule that I return all phone calls and e-mails within hours. 15
I'm just saying 22 that that is the one issue that I'm going 23 to take issue with, number one. 24 And, number two, I do want to point out that this administration and 113 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 the Redevelopment Authority last summer went after some competitive federal monies, some stimulus money, called the Neighborhood Stabilization Program, a very competitive program. And my staff and I, you know, sort of worked very hard with the Office of Housing to apply for those funds. And we were able to target three neighborhoods for those funds and two of the neighborhoods are -- one is in the Third District, Mantua, which is Councilwoman Blackwell's neighborhood. And one is in your district, in the Nicetown neighborhood. And, with all due respect, we've done a lot. I mean that money just started -- you know, was just freed up in February, so we haven't started spending it yet. But I do think that we are trying to work as good partners with you. I think we're trying to bring resources to your neighborhoods because we 114 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 recognize, and the Mayor recognizes, that those are neighborhoods that have lots of troubles, lots of vacancy, lots of dilapidated housing and the need for affordable housing. And that is one reason that we targeted your neighborhoods. So I want to keep working with you as a partner and to try to address your concerns. And I think we're doing that. But I did want to remind you that we have tried to bring additional resources to your neighborhood in addition to the ones that we've been discussing today.
Well, you don't have to remind me; I think I sent you a letter that stated I appreciate the additional resources that are being brought to the district. And, yes, we did work together very well on that NSP2, with Nicetown being one of the target areas, because my next actual e-mail to 115 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 you is going to ask you, when will the RFP going out? because I noticed -- I believe you sent the RFP out for Point Breeze, so I wanted to know what was going on with NSP2 and the Nicetown project. And those are things we work good on. But then, all of a sudden, something else happens, like the 21st and Venango. You know, like when do they get it, when do they get it? We've been working in these neighborhoods for a long time. We have priorities too, and maybe that's where we butt heads. You have priorities, we have priorities. Let's sit down and discuss the priorities and agree on what they should be, okay? And I do -- and I'll say it publicly again. I do agree and I do appreciate the fact that additional resources have been added in the 8th District. Some of our neighborhoods are still in dire need, even after NTI. And 116 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 there's a lot of work that needs to be done, a lot of work that needs to be done. And we want to do this in a honest way, honest way. But -- so, you know, I'm not going to dispute you on that because I agree with that, but then on the other hand, something else will happen.
Well, I agree. I just want you to be aware we are aware of the needs of your district. Absolutely, absolutely.
Thank you very much. Thank you. With regard to urban farms, you 117 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 know I've had an issue for several years on the Mill Creek Farms when you mentioned Mantua. You know, we have -- it's in that area, the Mill Creek Farms on Haverford Avenue, where we have the opportunity to change the land to have the farm and the neighbors agree to have a farm next to Sulzberger School, where can't build on land due to the creek and have that land be used for low-income public housing, a block square. Why won't you consider allowing us to do it? Or maybe you've changed your mind. Why can't we have a block square of low-income housing built by PHA as well as a block for the garden that is so used by homeless people, by neighbors, by everybody? Why can't we have both? Why do we have to keep holding up on that? And we also -- PHA was even willing to do the borings, but they -- you wouldn't even let 'em do the borings to prove their case. Why can't we have a 118 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 farm and a housing development? Why can't we have both?
Well, Councilwoman, all I would say is that that's a larger land-use question. And my understanding is that it's -- that's in the Mayor's Office, and I had thought you and the Mayor had discussed that; is that not correct?
And the people who have said they want to keep it there don't live in -- I don't know where they live. The neighbors across the street from the project are fine with going a few blocks down to Sulzberger. But the people who don't want to move it are people who do farms and move around the City or wherever they move to, but I don't know them. And we have the opportunity to 119 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 have a housing development and satisfy the other need that is wonderful too. They do grow vegetables and give it to PhilAbundance and various homeless projects. It's a great project, but where we can have two, I don't know why we have to keep having it listed as an unresolved issue. We would really like to -- we'd like to be able to have housing there, that four-block square. Do you know what it's like in the winter, when it's just all weeds and dirt and nothing? I mean, why can't we, when we can make the -- And not only that, but Sulzberger has a school and they have a watershed program with the students, and this would expand it because it's right across the street, next to the proposed Lucien E. Blackwell Community Center. And we would like to -- you know, we've been asking, you know, for this since the beginning of this administration. 120 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
And I'm going to have to just check in with the Mayor's Office, because my understanding is that's the place where this decision was being made. So all I can tell you is that I will check with them.
I mean, this issue only came up because we were at the end of the garden agreement --
But these are issues that frustrate us and make us not understand why we -- you know, why we have these kinds of problems. We shouldn't have these problems. We know -- we're elected to know what people want in our areas, what people want in our neighborhoods. And we certainly are concerned when we can't get 121 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 these -- get these issues resolved. I know we mentioned the NTI Program, and I know that's a big issue with my colleague Councilman Clarke, who had to step out for an opening; he'll be back. But we would like to -- we need our acquisition, we need money for our projects. And what -- where are we with the NTI issue?
Well, as I said earlier, the process has started 'cause it's really -- it's cranking up and it's at the OHCD stage right now, so I'll let... (Deborah McCulloch comes forward.) MS. McCOLLOCH: Good morning. Deborah McCulloch, Director of Housing.
Good morning. MS. McCOLLOCH: On the NTI funding, as I testified last week at the Con Plan hearing, some of the money has 122 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 been released and is going forward now; that's sort of what we're calling on the program side, so that additional funding has been made available for the Basic Systems Repair Program and the Adaptive Modifications Program so that cases can move through, using NTI funding. On the acquisition side, we're prepared to start moving that forward also. I met with each Councilmember last fall and reviewed what was in the pipeline for each district. In each case, there were some questions on both sides. Sometimes some Councilmembers needed to give me a list of priorities; in some cases, there were questions that OHCD or the Redevelopment Authority had to answer. I am reviewing all of those letters now. You'll be getting your sort of updated letter from that meeting to say, okay, this is the list, let's look at it again and make sure this is what you want. 123 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 In some cases, I have gotten responses from Council people but not from everyone. So everyone will get a letter so that we're back all sort of at the same place. In some cases, meetings have been scheduled already to start reviewing that. They're all going to be scheduled as we get through this week. I've got to get through the Con Plan hearings this week, and then we'll get those off and going. And and over the summer, we'll be off to the races to finalize the list. And then the Redevelopment Authority is the agency that actually carries out the acquisitions. As they're moving forward this, committee that Terry mentioned earlier, IRT, which stands for Interagency Review Team, will be reviewing each of those lists to see what properties are on the list. The IART Committee is composed of representatives of the Redevelopment 124 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Authority, OHCD, the Planning Commission, Commerce to make these -- for the new ones to make recommendations to the Chief of Staff, who's the point person on the -- approving the acquisitions. So you'll be giving us the lists, we'll be reviewing them through IART, making recommendations to the Chief of Staff, and then we'll be ready to roll. We have to, as you know, align each property with a funding source, that there are different funding sources for the NTI -- of different types of NTI bond proceeds, so we have to ensure that properties are aligned with the proper funding source in order to move them forward so that we don't have the sorts of issues that we had in the past.
I have a 125 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 question, Deborah. And, again, you know, hindsight. I guess the issue is, you -- we -- this Council want to improve a concept plan that will impact NTI and our NTI planning. So on the one hand, we're going to go through this review process that's going to be post your Consolidated Plan approval. And I'm just wondering, where do those things come together? because one thing may leverage the other. So, for instance, in some cases, what my pipeline is -- and my list hasn't changed; if anything, it's grown since we last met. Some of that requires NTI acquisition so that then you could do, you know, some CDBG funding and so forth. So I guess I'm asking you, what's going to be the timeline on that? 'cause I feel like we've been here before and we've had this conversation before. So are we going to say 30 days? You're saying you're going to get a 126 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 letter to us when, before we approve the Consolidated Plan or after? MS. McCOLLOCH: The letter will not come before the Consolidated Plan process. The Consolidated Plan -- well, the Consolidated Plan is still in committee, so it needs to be passed out of committee --
Point of view, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, point of view.
And in your mind, what's the deadline for the Consolidated Plan? MS. McCOLLOCH: The deadline is June 17th.
Why? 127 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 MS. McCOLLOCH: Because that's last day of City Council hearings, and the Consolidated Plan must be submitted to HUD no later than August 15th.
And we've never submitted a consolidated plan after August? MS. McCOLLOCH: We have never submitted a consolidated plan after August; and by statute, it must be submitted by August 15th.
Is there any way that we can get a sense from you based on those lists we gave in the fall, prior to the Consolidated Plan? MS. McCOLLOCH: Get a sense of them?
We gave 128 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 you a list of pipelines of what we wanted to do. I guess my issue becomes that because we've held up the NTI, a lot of this stuff was dependent on several different things. And I just want to know at what point that comes together in the summer, 'cause, again, we have the October deadline of tax-credit deals for folks who are doing stuff independent of us. So I just feel like, you know, what's your timeline? Can you guys say in the next 30 days, this is what we're going to do; in the next 60 days, this is what we're going to do; this is going to be the point person, and this is how we're going to move forward? MS. McCOLLOCH: I can say to you that, certainly, by the end of June, I will have reviewed all of the information that I have and be scheduling. In some cases, another meeting may need to be scheduled with the City Council representative; in some 129 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 cases, we may not need a meeting because what whatever we have is what we have.
Mm-hmm. MS. McCOLLOCH: And so, we would be able to begin to move those forward. I just -- each district may have a different list and may have a different set of --
But the problem becomes that even for us, as we begin to spend the NTI money, unless we have access to staff to tell us a range of some of the land acquisition pieces we're putting together -- sort of like if we wait for the one meeting, I just feel like there's a whole bunch of work that we could be doing prior to finalizing that, that we've not been able to do because staff has not been available to us to sit down and say, Okay, we're bundling this parcel. You know, give us some estimated numbers so that we can move forward. So I'm feeling a little 130 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 apprehensive that we're delaying and delaying and delaying. And I'd like to get at least some sense that we can move some of those. MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm sorry, Councilwoman. Staff -- I'm not sure, when you say staff hasn't been available, which staff you're referring to.
Well, mainly from the RDA's perspective to sit down and start looking at what are going to be the market value on some of these things as we bundle stuff. There's a whole technical piece to this. MS. McCOLLOCH: Okay.
You know, we want to be ready. We've met with all of our CDCs, we know what all the pipelines are, we know the land what are the lands that we want to bundle. We need to begin to meet with the legal teams to begin to look at how much are these parcels going to cost, what are the projects, and so forth. 131 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 I just feel like if we have to wait to go to the top to the come back to the bottom to go to the top to the come back to the bottom, there's a lot of time that's being spent there. So can we get some agreement that staff -- and I don't know how it's going to be coordinated in terms of staff from OHCD and RDA because, again, we haven't had clarity around who's taking the lead or how that's being coordinated. This is the first time I'm hearing about the intergroup. But we need to be able to take this in front of somebody that begins to work through some of that process.
Yeah. I think that we're ready to start that work now. I mean, I think that in -- we're not going to hold up all ten Council Districts for one or two; you know what I'm saying? So I think we're ready, especially on the Council Districts where 132 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 we feel like the Council list is pretty much agreed on and everybody sort of knows what the goal is at least. I think we've got RDA staff ready to start doing the technical work as you describe it now, appraisals and title issues and things like that. So I think this is going to be an iterative process. I don't think it's going to be where every single -- it's not going to be, nor was it in the past, that every project went on the same timeline.
I think it's a constant coordination, and everything's got to go, and I think we've got to get these projects moving as we can get them moving. And we'll stop and take snapshots probably on a quarterly basis and say, Where are we? and how's spending going? and how's this Council District's projects going? 133 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 But I think that's the way we see it. So we're prepared to start now. I just want to make sure that's clear.
So what does that mean? That means your staff will sit down with my staff?
We have been ready -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.) MS. McCOLLOCH: Actually, we have a meeting scheduled already. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
I just feel like there's -- 134 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
-- a certain amount of work at our level, and there's a certain amount of work that my staff could be --
... even as it relates to vetting some of this stuff --
Do you hear that, Jennifer? MS. McCOLLOCH: -- particular case, your staff meeting has already been scheduled. 135 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Thank you very much. Now, we have RDA's commitment that when people come to you, you won't take it to the board without coming to the Council people.
Okay. Now, let me ask another question. With regard to publicly-owned properties, we want to bring up the issue that some property under RDA ownership, PHDC or PHA, that we will consider all of those properties without selling bits of 'em off, because sometimes these entities want to buy it for a big project, or would consider it. So we need to -- we need -- and that's a Public Property issue as well, that we will ask Ms. Schlotterbeck that we look at properties in one area, so if 136 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 they're publicly-owned, we can have one project as opposed to them possibly being sold off or doled out, and then we're stuck. So do you agree with that?
I certainly agree that's the goal. Obviously, I can't bind those other agencies, so that's above my pay grade.
Well, the others are easy to work with, Ms. Gillen.
We've been asking a lot of questions. Do we have more questions?
Yes. Let's -- I'd like to go back if I may, Madam Chair.
And then we'll ask Public Property, we'll bring them up next.
Madam Chair, I'd like to ask some questions. 137 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Thank you. So my colleagues will ask questions, and then we'll ask Ms. Schlotterbeck to come forward.
I want to understand kind of this appraisal situation 'cause we've been doing this desktop appraisals, and I think Councilman Jones alluded to this earlier. The radius in which we're doing comparables -- and I have a case right now and it's actually in front of Public Property. We need to agree on an appraisal process for the City-runs. I know that -- and when I -- quasi-City, PHDC, at least Public Property and RDA; I know PHA has its own process, they got to get federal approval for their disposition. Because what happens is, in certain neighborhoods where it abuts -- for instance, everything south of Lehigh abuts Fishtown and Northern Liberties. You do a desktop appraisal, there's a 138 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 two-mile radius, and I'm getting a comp that comes from Northern Liberties, which is just ridiculous. You know, we've asked for reconsiderations. Again, these are the ones that are caught up in, I'm sure, Clare Arbruster's desk. We got to come up with a better way of saying what's an actual comp and not. I'd rather have a comp from Southwest Philadelphia that's my reality versus these Northern Liberties and Fishtown appraisals. What are our legal caveats? And ultimately, what is the level of discretion we have on those?
Right. And we're dealing with one that is in, I would say, on the edge of Kensington right now that has the exact same problem, where we know the appraisal is too high, we know they're comparing it to Northern Liberties. It's making the deal not workable. 139 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 And the problem is that the RDA is required to sell properties basically within appraisals, so we've got our lawyers looking at this very issue right now, to figure out how do we make realistic adjustments for neighborhoods because neighborhood boundaries could --
But what are we telling our appraiser? I mean, we hire them, and we say, Hey we want an appraisal that's fair?
Well, there are standard guidelines in a appraisers use. And, unfortunately, they don't necessarily -- they -- you know, it's much art as science, as we're finding out. So we -- you know, what we have done is, we've gone back and said to them, for instance, We know that you're comparing this to properties that are going to be sold for housing purposes, but this is a non-housing use.
Mm-hmm. 140 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
So can you do an appraisal based on that. So there are certain ways that we can give the appraisers realistic directions or better directions that we haven't done in the past. So we're trying to do that to see if that's getting the appraisals to be more realistic.
And in one case, we had an appraisal come in, you know, based on Northern Liberties. You know, one is commercial.
It should not be acceptable. And moreover, Councilwoman, the other problem that we're seeing is, lots of appraisers' appraisals are coming in 141 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 high because they're comparing it to folks who are speculating.
And under the Redevelopment Authority, as you know, we're saying to people, No, you've got to go and develop it now. Well, that lowers of value of the property.
And the appraiser, in the past, has not taken that into consideration. So we are absolutely trying to figure out a way to tweak the appraisal process so that it is more realistic, it's producing more consistent numbers, both high and low. Again, as I said, we've seen appraisals come in both too high and too low, which makes us concerned. We're looking at the way other places do it, because this isn't just a Philly issue, so we're trying to figure out, what does Boston? what does 142 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Baltimore do? what do other places do? And how we do it so that it's not subject to mishandling, you know, so that it's not subject to somebody giving an appraiser a wink and a nod and saying, Hey, give me a low number, because that's -- you know, we don't want that either. So it's really hard. This has turned out to be way harder than I thought it would be. But we are -- you know, all I can tell you is, we're working on it. And anytime any of you get an appraisal that you think is out of whack, we --
We have been sending them back. And it leads me to another issue that's been one that's difficult, because every time we bring it up, there's this notion that we're doing something bad, and it's the ability to give folks sweat equity. You know, we set up processes 143 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 where, you know, we've given people urban garden agreements and they now want to buy them. And these appraisals are coming back at -- you know, so high. And there's, like, this reluctancy to say -- and we've done it before. You know, we've done sweat equity before; that's where the whole $1 house program came in, and people had to put in -- You know, I can't understand why we can't say there's a value to the fact that people kept these properties clean for all these years. Many of them did improvements. And that's complicated.
To me, it's not complicated. If you maintained it for ten years, you know, it costs us a thousand dollars to clean a lot. This person has kept this lot clean for 20 years, you know. If we had cleaned it in our normal vacant lot, they'd have put 144 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 in -- we'd have spent $20,000 potentially on that lot. Why is it so, you know, out of the norm to say we're going to do, you know, a 50 percent credit to these folks for maintaining it?
Right, yeah. And I haven't thought about that as much, but it ought to be a problem that we should be able to figure out. I agree.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Councilwoman. Good afternoon now. I just wanted to first follow up on the questioning of Councilwoman Sanchez with respects to appraisals. And we actually had a similar problem up in some areas up and around the Strawberry Mansion community, where we were looking at values; and frankly speaking, the appraisals they were valuing, they were appraisals based on property at 15th and Cecil B. Moore, which were Temple -- people were purchasing lots to build 145 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 student housing, so you know those appraisals out of whack. But what we looked at -- and never got to implement it because the market tanked -- is, if you do an appraisal and you standardize the appraisal process, and the market value is what the market value is based on the appraisal, but in a case where the sales value of that particular project won't make -- won't -- will not allow the project to move forward because the value of the acquisition is too costly to accommodate the development, we looked at a possibility that if you put a soft second or third mortgage that amortizes over a period of time, so if the person -- we want to do affordable housing or, you know, workforce housing that doesn't have a deep subsidy, that person buys the property, but you sell it for, say, 50 percent, and the remaining 50 percent amortizes over a period of time if that person agrees to stay in the 146 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 house. So, therefore, as it relates to the purchase price, the deal works because the purchase price is not so high that it won't -- that it will support the construction loan and the mortgage. We actually think that that's a process that works. It allows you to keep a standardized appraisal process so that, as you said earlier, Ms. Gillen, people aren't winking and saying lower to appraisal, because that's not a real value. But it gives the government the ability -- and we did the research; it is actually allowed under the statute to give that -- the rest of that sales price as a soft second or a soft third, depending on what position you would like to have that in your mortgage. So, therefore, you sell it at a reasonable amount, the deal works. That person has a commitment to stay in that property for a period of time. It stops 147 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 the speculation, 'cause if that person sells the property, that 50 percent kicks in immediately at the close, so they have to immediately pay the remainder of that purchase price. So it gives you an opportunity to work a deal, but it also makes sure that you have the appraisal process in a standard way and also gives you an opportunity, in the event that that person does not comply with that agreement, to recapture that additional 50 percent. So that's just one thought. And we were actually ready to proceed, but the market tanked, and we didn't get a chance to implement it, but it made sense.
All right. Well, we'll take a look at it. I mean, anything that we think makes sense, I mean, because this has been an area of great frustration for everyone, I think, and I'm open to all suggestions on this. 148 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Yeah. Well, we're actually -- as we proceeded, we've actually been driving up the cost of our own acquisition process.
So the government is probably paying more than anybody else in the City for land, because we have to pay the maximum amount --
-- in addition to putting money in the court. So we're driving those values up in the neighborhoods. And, frankly speaking, they're not realistic.
I just want to get a question 'cause I'm a numbers guy. I know we want to do things differently and we're looking at other cities and other states, and we're working on systems. But at the end of the day, it's 149 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 always been my belief that housing production -- in particular, affordable housing -- is about the numbers, providing as many opportunities to build affordable housing as possible. And I think that's what we all should be here to facilitate. So what I would like to ask you, Miss McCulloch, is if you can give us analysis -- not very detailed, but just on the bottom line, what are the numbers in terms of the number of units that we have funded both in rental and in homeownership for the last six years? MS. McCOLLOCH: Total?
Total -- no, I want 'em broken down by year, though. How many units were funded and how many units were completed is not really at issue 'cause that takes a long time. I just need to know how many units we've funded over the last six years. 150 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 MS. McCOLLOCH: Okay.
'Cause I think that ultimately, at the end of the day, our ability to do that and position ourselves to take advantage of leveraging PHFA or Federal Home Loan Bank or any of the other funding entities is most important. And I'm a little concerned that I'm not seeing the level of production as we move ahead. Fortunately enough, Councilman Greenlee and I just left for a groundbreaking. It wasn't even affordable housing, Councilwoman; it was market-rate housing.
But it was in a community in Francisville, where we had done a significant amount of affordable housing. And the reality is that that market-rate housing now works because of the investment over the years. And Miss McCulloch and Scott, you all know 'cause you've been involved 151 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 in a very aggressive way. Half a block away, on Poplar Street, affordable housing is coming up out of the ground; Councilwoman Blackwell is seeing the development. And it was a gentleman, a development team; they're building market-rate housing, and the only thing we had to do to facilitate that was to assist 'em in zoning and, you know, pull the appropriate community groups together. So I'm very concerned. It's a good thing. I'm very concerned about the numbers, 'cause at the end of the day, if we're not here to facilitate the building of affordable housing, then why are we here? I mean, it's just -- You know, I was with the Mayor Saturday, up on Germantown Avenue, looking at a development, Warnock Place. And we were up on the roof. The senior citizen development had a green roof sitting there, and it was wonderful. And the people there were so happy and 152 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 thankful to have an opportunity to have affordable housing that was quality housing. So I think that that should be our primary focus. So with all of that, I just want to say that I'm a little concerned about -- and if I didn't hear this 'cause I was not here -- this process, as it relates to being in the position to meet the October timeline, as Councilwoman Sanchez said. We have tax credit submissions due in October. It will conceivably be -- and I hope I'm wrong. The possibility is it's the last time we'll have a friendly governor in place -- a friendly government; I'm not going to say "governor." Mr. Hudson is somebody that we've worked with all the years. And he's very, very receptive to Philadelphia-based projects. So my understanding is, the way this works, we have to be in a position to show site control. So that October 153 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 deadline, particularly as it relates to PHFA, will require that we have site control. So if do not facilitate the acquisition process as quickly as possible, 'cause you now say that that process won't start till after the comp grant, that: One, we won't be in a position to show site control, which is critical. Two, the way the projects are awarded -- 'cause, contrary to popular belief, Councilpeople don't actually select funding for projects. I know most people think we get to decide what's financed; that's just not the way it works. So understanding the fact that you all have a process where you would determine what projects get funded, and given the way the process currently works, they may not coincide with what Councilmembers are interested in having acquired to facilitate a project down the line. 154 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 How do you -- do you see my concern about the possibility where those two things may not... MS. McCOLLOCH: I haven't received confirmation that the PHFA tax credit applications will be due in October; but if that's the case, then we're going to have to deal with that deadline.
I'm only repeating what the director told me. MS. McCOLLOCH: Okay. I'm just saying I haven't -- I heard it from you, so that's great. I'm happy to hear that. The current -- we currently have a set of tax credit applications at PHFA, not all of which do we expect will receive funding. So some of those that are currently there will be held over until the next round. So I expect that we'll have some there already. And then we need to, as you say, line up whatever the next set are. So the Office of Housing and Community 155 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Development will have to issue an RFP because it will depend on part of our subsidy for part of it so that there's the question about how much subsidy is the City willing to contribute to the deals, and they also have to have site control. Now, the question for PHFA will be: Will a resolution of Council be sufficient for site control? And that has been a debate that we have gone back and forth with PHFA about what PHFA will consider as site control. Because if there is an October round, we could have a resolution of Council for any new properties that are needed.
A resolution authorizing condemnation. MS. McCOLLOCH: Exactly.
Mm-hmm. MS. McCOLLOCH: And so, if that will be sufficient for site control, then we'll be okay. If that won't be, we'll have to negotiate with PHFA about what we 156 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 can give them to demonstrate site control.
So this is my concern, though, and I understand that. If the Councilmember says that they are interested in acquiring these set of properties and you all may decide that you don't want to fund a project there, then what happens to that property and what happens to something that you fund? Or are you going to be in a position -- 'cause I need to know this. Are you only going to fund that there's current site control? 'cause I think that's going to limit us dramatically. Do you understand what I'm saying? MS. McCOLLOCH: I want to make sure I understand. You're asking, will we only support where the subsidy developments that have site control?
Correct. 157 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 MS. McCOLLOCH: Because our expectation is that PHFA --
Correct. MS. McCOLLOCH: -- will only accept developments that have site control.
Correct. MS. McCOLLOCH: And I think there, again, the question will be: What do we think PHFA will accept as site control, that if a resolution of Council authorizes --
Yeah, but it doesn't matter. If there's no site control, they're not going to accept that. I'm not talking about whether or not the resolution suffices; I'm talking about if -- assume they do accept the resolution -- MS. McCOLLOCH: Because --
It's not the same -- MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm -- 158 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
If the Councilmember is interested in acquiring "Parcel A" -- MS. McCOLLOCH: Mm-hmm.
-- you all don't fund that; you want to fund "Parcel B" that may not have entire site control. So I guess what I'm trying to say is: Are we going to be able to get on the same page in terms of what should be funded? 'cause you're not going to issue our RFP until the fall. MS. McCOLLOCH: Well --
I don't want to go out here and acquire property 'cause I'm assuming we're going to start this acquisition process relatively soon. MS. McCOLLOCH: Mm-hmm.
And then that property not be given consideration for funding from the City, 'cause, 159 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 frankly speaking, it's just a waste of acquisition dollars. MS. McCOLLOCH: I understand what you're saying. So we have to figure out how to coordinate the RFP for the subsidy with the acquisition.
Correct. That's my -- and normally, you know, if there's this long timeline or pipeline, eh. MS. McCOLLOCH: Right.
But I'm just -- you understand what could potentially happen. MS. McCOLLOCH: I understand the issue. Let me sit down and think it through and go over it with you what an appropriate schedule would be.
All right. You understand it? MS. McCOLLOCH: I understand the issue.
All right. Thank you. 160 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Thank you very much. And the Councilman confirms what we know, that income is different from the quality of housing. We have, in Lucien Blackwell Homes, rental and homeownership side-by-side. And he said they had a dedication, he and Councilman Greenlee, at market-rate housing across the street from low-income housing. Now, all of it rises. You know, if we subsidize those things we need to, the quality of life improves. And we have found that from homeless people to people at the lowest level, when it comes to income. If you give them a good product, as Carl Green says, they will treat it that way. So the quality of life rises for everybody when we do the right thing. Having said that, I think we should go to Public Property.
Can I ask one more question? 161 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Yes. After Councilwoman Miller asks her question.
Thank you, thank you. All right. Good afternoon. And, hopefully, this is my last question for RDA. RDA has reported new hires 11 during this period since you came there? 12
That's -- that sounds right. I don't know if that's the right number, but I think so.
Probably. Okay. Do you have a minority recruiter there?
Are you specifically looking for minorities? 'cause it looks like 73 percent of all 162 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 your hires are non-colored folks.
Well, we work very hard to try to get as much diversity as possible, including, you know, minorities, African-Americans, and Latinos. So, yes, it's a significant goal for us.
So there's a diverse population of folks that are applying?
In some cases, yes. And I'd have to check on all of them. I do know that, in most cases, we have really worked very hard to -- when people of color have not applied, to 163 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 do some outreach and to try to circulate the job description and get more people of color to apply. So it's something that we have to work at.
Okay. Can you give this committee, through the Chair, information on your recruitment process, how many jobs have you -- how many positions have become available and how many folks have applied and how diverse that group is, where your needs are?
Because the report I have says that your hiring has actually been 73 percent Caucasian, 27 percent African-American. And then we look at salaries. So I'd really like to get some additional information.
Okay, all 164 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 right. Thank you.
And let me mention that we've heard rumors about Wayne King, a minority, who's been in the City as long as many of us, and they say he lost his job, got a cut in salary, had his office taken, and he's in a little cubby. And we all know him to be a excellent worker. Obviously, it's rumor. I don't know the details of it, but it's an issue that concerns us since he is one of the minorities who had worked his way up to having a decent job and one who's committed to our city and its neighborhoods.
And I support the Wayne King comments too, Jannie. I know that he's been very professional and has worked well with our office, extremely competent.
Exactly, that's right. So you can figure 165 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 out how you respond to that with us, but it's an issue.
Thank you. So we will need you, Ms. Gillen. Maybe you can stay while we call up Public Property, because many issues overlap. Deb, we think you can probably sit back. Thank you. I'm sure you regret it. (Laughter.) (Commissioner Joan Schlotterbeck comes forward.)
Thank you. And thank you for letting us go to -- Mr. Herzins is sick. Please give him our best. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: I will.
We appreciate the work that he does. And our issues are issues that we mentioned. 166 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Many of them overlap; Public Property owns some, RDA has some. But we are concerned about the side yard issue with VPRC and the urban garden issue as well as the policy for public surplus property. So it's kind of the same issues in adjacency. I guess those are the issues. So we'll maybe start with side yards and urban gardens. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Okay. Joan Schlotterbeck, Public Property Commissioner. Urban garden agreements? In an effort to simplify the process, it's a license agreement. There's no reason for them to go through the VPRC process. So we figure we would just do a license agreement direct and have the Mayor's Office of Sustainability work with us and get it done quicker. In your correspondence, apparently it stated that I had suspended it, and that's not the case, so there's a 167 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 misunderstanding. We're just trying to make it simpler by doing licensed agreements.
All right. Then would you ask your people -- because our people have gotten formal notices that everything is on hold so that they know that this continues. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Okay.
Also with appraisals -- in fact, we just went through all of that with RDA. We had one in two small blocks in West Philly. The people wanted the side yards. One was appraised at 10,000 on Montrose Street; and on Mantua Avenue, one was appraised at $15,000. And they're just side yards that people have been taking care of for years. So my office asked them then to for an urban garden agreement. That's when they were written that they were contacted, saying that the urban garden 168 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 agreement policy was on hold. But can't we -- it seems to me -- and that was one of the values of the Vacant Property Review Committee, that people who had side yards could get them nominally. They're taking care of them, they're keeping them clean, they're planting gardens and flowers and that sort of thing. And if they get them nominally, then they help maintain the block. But if we ask them to pay fair market value for them and then at times the value is not taken narrowly by that area, then it makes it untenable; it just makes it not reasonable for them, and everything falls down. Can we look at that? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Sure. And I think it's two separate -- what I'm trying to point out is that the agreement is simply a license agreement. So rather than have it go through the Vacant Property process going forward, we 169 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 would just issue them directly. The issue of value -- and that's a function of the Office of Housing now. It used to be in RDA, but it's now in OHCD. (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.) COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: So the answer is yes. I mean, with the new policy, that's what we're going to do; we're going to address all of these concerns.
Absolutely. And we ask Miss McCulloch -- we won't pull her back today on that 'cause we still have to do Curtis Jones's bill, and there is another hearing, they tell me, at 1. So we'll try to wind down. But, at any rate, maybe our next time, you can talk a little bit -- if you are doing the whole issue of property appraisals for Public Property, you can respond to that at our next 170 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 meeting, okay?
Thank you, Commissioner. So if Public Property is now going to do these agreements with OHCD, how is that working? Walk me through the process for renewals and for new ones. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: If somebody wants to apply for a garden agreement, they just contact us.
So who's -- John's going to be the point person on that? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Yes.
So the application goes to John, OHCD signs off on it? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: I don't believe OHCD has to sign off on it. 171 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Okay. No, but you said something around the value. It goes to -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: No. I was trying to clarify the two issues.
Okay. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Going forward, we thought it would be simpler not to have people apply through the VPRC process; it takes more time.
Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: What has already gone through that process and has -- an appraisal happens; that's not something that I'm involved in.
Okay. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: It's more of a function of the process of VPRC.
Okay. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: That's what I was trying to clear. 172 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
I think one of things that would be important -- and I know I was working with VPRC on this -- was the whole issue of when -- how is Public Property then going to conduct due diligence on the urban agreements when they get renewed? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Well, we were going to work with the Office of Sustainability; and, actually, they were going to partner with us, so most of it would fall back on them.
So they're going to do the site visits to make sure -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Mm-hmm.
-- people are in compliance -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Absolutely.
-- to their urban garden agreement? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: 173 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Absolutely.
Do they have the staffing for that? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: I believe they do, yes. You know, I wasn't in the meeting. John took them directly with those folks, but yes -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
Who runs the Office of Sustainability? I don't even remember what -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Katherine Gajewski.
Pardon me? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Katherine Gajewski.
Now I know as much as I did before. Thank you, though. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: I'm happy to get back to you with how it's going to work; I'm happy to do that. 174 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Yeah. I mean, again, we -- I'd like some recommendations in terms of how do we do that process -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Okay.
To facilitate but at the same time have some accountability as it relates to those. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Okay.
I know the Chair had asked you about the appraisals, a discussion we've also had. So given the discussion we've had prior, how are you guys handling appraisals when they come higher, in response to some of the issues? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: We have recently done a broker program pilot. And then we did -- we have three Council Districts that we're doing the online bidding process. And we haven't gotten appraisals. The market is 175 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 dictating the price.
Yeah, but on those properties where we've seen high appraisals, what's your process if an appraisal comes in with comparables that are like what we've been talking about here prior to -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: I actually haven't run across that yet. Remember, I -- if it's through the VPRC process, those appraisals are done through OHCD, not --
Thank you very much. We would like a report on this Office of Sustainability. I don't know which -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: I'm happy to do that.
Thank you. And how -- and whose role they 176 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 take -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: I'm happy to do that.
And how it changes things. Thank you very much. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Sure.
And disposition procedures is on our -- I assume, with adjacency, you're willing to work with us for -- and not dispose of a public piece of property if we're developing the whole area. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: That goes without saying.
Yes. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: My role is never to interfere with any development.
I'm sure. Is there a new disposition program that you're undertaking? Is this 177 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 what you're talking about with this Office of Sustainability? Then we'll wait to here with that.
Your pilot. She's confused. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Well, the pilot program that we were talking about, we sought permission from three Council Districts. Met with the Councilpeople beforehand and got their buy-in, and then they understood what the program was and how it would work.
Give us more details of what that program is. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: It's -- primarily, we targeted rowhomes, you know, middle of a row, like a house in the middle of a row that was a vacant 178 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 lot. And we ran the addresses past each Councilperson, and they gave us permission to put them on the website and to solicit bids. And it's been very successful. They're all red-zoned residential, so as not to -- you know, it doesn't mean that someone can't come back and try to go through another zoning process, but that's a hearing that would take place, you know, in another venue.
Thank you. In which districts was this pilot program? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Council President, Darrell Clarke, and --
DiCicco? COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: And Frank DiCicco, yes.
Which brings up a question for me. 179 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Mm-hmm.
It seems to me that in areas where there is more marketability, greater value in real estate, that we get innovative, that we get creative, that we think outside of the box, that we, you know, try new and different things. And when it comes to distressed areas -- without using "the lack of priority"; I don't want to say that -- it just doesn't -- we just don't get creative. And that's unacceptable, I want to tell you now. The way neighborhoods get hot, the way neighborhoods become viable, the way neighborhoods take on value is when government goes in first, establishes a beachhead, shows that it can be done, and then the private sector follows. Now, yes, Center City is a no-brainer; you know, those properties will probably find takers in the natural 180 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 course of things. It is the help of government that makes places like the 3rd District and the 4th District and the 7th District and the 9th District viable. And so, I don't understand how, you know, all the time, you know, the best things happen in those districts, and we, you know, and we out in the regular communities representing working-class people wind up without innovation. I don't understand why they were chosen over us. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: We just picked areas that we --
There's no 18 "just" -- not those three districts. That's not -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Actually --
-- you're pulling them out of a hat. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Actually, when we worked with the Council 181 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 President, she was reluctant to have us do anything creative in Point Breeze. So, I mean, there's dueling opinions about this.
It is not coincidental to me -- at least I don't -- I won't buy that, that DiCicco's district, Darrell's district, and our president's district, all of which represent higher-income areas -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: That's true.
What they have in common is that they touch Center City property values. And for us to use our resources there, when the private sector can just as easily step up to the plate because of those values, it seems to me a little bit discriminatory, I mean, quite frankly. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Well, we just wanted to see how it went, and we were --
Well, we 182 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 could have saw -- COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: -- on your doorstep.
We could have saw how it went in the 4th District, we could have saw how it went in the 7th District. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: Sure.
You didn't pick 'em out of a hat; you picked 'em out of rational, and I want to know what that rationale was. COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: I don't really know what the rationale was.
Madam Chair, I just wanted to add, again, and I think this is a broader alphabet discussion. I think it's really important. I think what we're seeing is a need to liquidate properties, 'cause we want to bring in money on the short term, 183 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 and I'm all for there are certain parcels that we need to get rid of. My only concern, and I've said this before; I've said it to Terry and to Deborah and to the Commissioner -- is where we have the greatest value is where we have to ensure that we are building for the reality of the City. And if we let those valuable parcels go without looking at the need to ensure affordable and access to those neighborhoods, we're going to, as a city, concentrate poverty in districts like mine. And I think that this is why it is so important that this administration articulate a housing and a community- development strategy that ensures that we are building for our -- the reality of our poverty. And so, my concern is, when ewe sell the highest value, those are the places where we need to ensure that people have access, that Philadelphians have access. 184 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 And that's where my concern is as it relates to your point, Councilman Jones. If everything that's affordable is going to be in my district, then I'm always going to represent a district that is not diverse and does not allow for some market-rate accessibility. And that's a concern that I have, because this city, 36 percent of our children live in poverty, percent 12 are in poverty. That is our reality. 13 When we're building for 14 everybody who's coming in and not 15 realizing that these are the people that 16 we have to take care of, we're going to 17 have sections of the City that have high 18 concentrations of poverty and problems. 19
On that 20 note, well done and well put. 21 How many deals were done in the 22 1st District last year for the 23 Redevelopment Authority and OHCD? 24 COMMISSIONER SCHLOTTERBECK: 25 You're asking me? 185 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
No, I'm asking Miss McCulloch. How many deals were done in the 1st District last year? (Ms. Gillen comes forward.)
Terry Gillen. By "deal," you mean a sale of land for an affordable housing project?
And while you're getting that, I want to know: In the 1st, the 5th, and the 2nd, in those districts, how many deals were done?
And then I want to know how many were done in the 4th and the dollar values.
Okay. MS. McCOLLOCH: I just want to make sure I -- you just want affordable housing ventures in each of those 186 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 districts.
I want every transaction done in the 1st, the 2nd, and the 5th compared to my district, the 4th. Now, probably other Councilpeople would want that as well. MS. McCOLLOCH: Okay.
Okay. Well, you understand you're going to get through me anything that goes through that RDA; you're not going to get PIDC and you're not going to get Public Property from me. So I'm just pointing out to you that --
All right. Matter of fact, I don't see why we can't ask you to get it all and do a matrix to give us where things are, because I'm -- I know we did very little. 187 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 MS. McCOLLOCH: Actually, Councilman, you had requested this last week of me, and we're preparing it to be given back prior to the Con. Plan hearing.
Thank you, Councilman. Are there more questions? (No response.)
Because we are going to continue this hearing. But if there are no questions, then it is time for us -- Deb, you might as well stay -- to consider Ordinance 19 100159. Will the clerk read the title of Ordinance 100159.
An ordinance 22 amending Chapter 21-1100 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Community Development," by amending Section 25 21-1108, entitled "Economic Development," 188 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 to increase the percentage of funds that must be allocated to economic development, all under certain terms and conditions.
Thank you very much. Miss McCulloch, would you like to present your testimony? MS. McCOLLOCH: I'm not sure if Councilmembers received a copy of my testimony in advance or did not. They did? Okay. Then you don't need it.
Thank you. Feel free to present your testimony. MS. McCOLLOCH: Good afternoon, Councilwoman Blackwell and members of the Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development, and the Homeless. I am Deborah McCulloch, Director of Housing, and I am here on behalf of the Nutter Administration to testify on Bill No. 24 100159.
Excuse 189 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 me, one moment, Miss McCulloch. Let me say to those who are leaving the room that we're going to continue the rest of the hearing until June 16th, at 1 o'clock. So we'll ask all of those who are here now to be present then, because some people are preparing to leave. Thank you. Continue. Excuse me, Miss McCulloch. MS. McCOLLOCH: This bill would mandate that at least 5 percent of Community Development Block (Grant CDBG) funds be allocated to economic development for mixed-use projects on or around commercial corridors. As drafted for Year 36 -- that's Fiscal Year 2011 -- that 5 percent requirement is more than $3 million based on the new CDBG entitlement of $55.3 million and projected program income of $13.1 million. The City supports the concept 190 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 of mixed-use residential and commercial development on commercial corridors. In the past, the City has supported mixed-use developments on commercial corridors. OHCD has supported the residential portion, and the Commerce Department has supported the commercial portion. For example, the Nicetown Court development on Germantown Avenue combines commercial space on the ground floor with affordable rental housing units above. The Allegheny West Foundation recently completed a smaller mixed-use development on Lehigh Avenue, that combines retail space on the ground floor, with four apartments above. In the past, the State's MUFI, (Mixed-Use Financing Initiative) Program, which was part of the Pennsylvania Housing Finance Agency's Homeownership Choice Program, provided funds to support mixed-use development. Local MUFI projects have been carried out by 191 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 Allegheny West, People's Emergency Center CDC, Mt. Airy USA, and New Kensington CDC. Because of the State's budgetary constraints, the PHFA is no longer funding MUFI or other Homeownership Choice activities. The Administration and Councilman Jones, the prime sponsor of Bill No. 100159, have had very productive discussions about the benefits and funding possibilities for mixed-use development. Councilman Jones has prepared an amendment to Bill No. 100159 that postpones implementation of the 5 percent requirement until Fiscal Year 2012, CDBG Year 37, and clarifies the basis on which the 5 percent calculation will be made. Funds not expended in any fiscal year for mixed-use development, as outlined in the amended bill, will be available for reprogramming for housing and economic development activities. Projects will be selected through a 192 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 request-for-proposals process. The Administration supports this amendment. In the interim, OHCD and the Commerce Department will support a pilot program funded at $1 million in CDBG resources in Fiscal Year 2011. To fund this pilot program, the Administration will present an amendment to the Year 36 Consolidated Plan at the Finance Committee hearing on June 9th. Assuming this amendment is adopted, the City will issue a request for proposals for mixed-use development on commercial corridors in FY 2011, using the resources of this pilot program. I have discussed this approach with the bill's sponsor, and I believe that he is supportive. Mixed-use development is a concept that we all support. I'm happy to answer questions you or other Councilmembers may have. Thank you.
Thank 193 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 you very much. Are there those who would want to testify on this bill? Rick Sauer, Executive Director of CDCs, is here. And James White is here. We invite them to testify. (Mr. White comes forward.)
Thank you, Mr. White. Thank you, Miss McCulloch. Thank you for your patience.
Good afternoon, Madam Chair and distinguished members of the Council. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is James White, and I am the policy coordinator of the Philadelphia Association of community development corporations. PACDC is a citywide association of more than 80 community development corporations and other organizations that have extensive experience developing residential and commercial properties, including mixed-use developments. 194 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 We would like to applaud Councilman Jones and the Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Economic Development and the Homeless for providing a public forum to discuss the creation of a local dedicated funding source to advance mixed-use development projects. As you know, many properties located within our neighborhood commercial corridors consist of street- level store fronts, with residential apartments based in the upper floors. Rehabilitation of these mixed-use buildings as well as development of new ones offers a key means of stabilizing and revitalizing commercial corridors and surrounding residential neighborhoods. Such developments attract and retain businesses, providing increased job and housing opportunities for residents near public transit. Communities that stimulate -- these also stimulate an 195 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 increased investment and strengthen our city's tax base. Mixed-use developments also contribute to community safety because they bring a double presence to a once-vacant space, the store and the residents of the apartments upstairs. In response to the challenge our members face accessing financing for mixed-use residential or commercial projects, PACDC convened key stakeholders and developed the concept that led to the creation of the Pennsylvania Housing Finances Mixed-Use Facility Financing Initiative in 2003. This initiative is designed to create a funding mechanism to help bridge gaps that often exist between housing lending and commercial lending and that may negatively impact the availability of financing for mixed-use developments. Through this initiative, PHFA has committed nearly $12 million in funding that has leveraged $120 million 196 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 to support mixed-use development projects throughout the Commonwealth, including five projects sponsored by CDCs in our association. While PHFA has not had the resources to support any of their Homeownership Choice programs, including MUFI, for the past two years, it is our understanding that this is one of their priorities, to re-fund the MUFI program. PACDC supports the goals and intent of Bill No. 100159 to create a local dedicated funding source to advance mixed-use development projects. 75 million in CDBG funds would be redirected from during Fiscal 2011. It is our understanding that the amendments have been agreed to that will address this issue by launching a pilot program in FY 2011, with the implementation requirements in the bill 197 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 taking effect in FY 2012. We fully support such an amendment. We believe that the creation of a dedicated funding source for mixed-use development will help develop a pipeline of projects and give the City an opportunity to leverage additional matching resources from PHFA's MUFI programs when it becomes refunded and also from private lenders. PACDC's members are engaged in housing and economic-development activities critical to sustainable neighborhood revitalization and would welcome the much-needed resources this legislation will bring to their communities. We look forward to the opportunity to work with Council, the Administration, and other stakeholders around the implementation of this new dedicated funding source to advance mixed-use development that will strengthen the City's neighborhood commercial corridors and address 198 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 residents' needs. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Mr. White, let me commend you for the great job that you do and for your commitment and diligence as well.
Only to echo the Chairwoman's comments. And I look forward to and always engaging in an ideas exchange with you because what it tends to do is make our ideas better. And when we look at legislation, sometimes we don't recognize the unintended consequences on CDCs and people that are doing the actual work. And by coming to us and exposing us to those unintended consequences, the 199 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 end-product is always better, and I just want to thank you for it.
Thank you. We are waiting for two members of our committee. For those of you who are in office, who just stepped out, please come back. We need members of our committee so that we may report out Bill 13 No. 100159.
I just wanted to thank -- also, Madam Chair, while waiting for our members, this important piece of legislation and why it's so important. One, as a young boy, I grew up in West Philadelphia on a commercial corridor near 60th and Market, a border that we now share. And one of the childhood memories I have is visiting a friend of mine who lived on 60th Street, who lived above the corner store that we 200 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 used to frequent. So whenever his mother used to send him to the store, he would right down the steps, go right around the corner, go right in and buy the bread, butter, eggs, and milk. Well, somehow, during the '60s, '70s, that trend changed, and people began boarding up the top part of their properties as safety hazards, and it took away from quality of life that we shared in that West Philadelphia neighborhood. Later on, as I became the president PCDC, Philadelphia Commercial Development Corporation, we did a study; we did a study of one block in Philadelphia, Germantown Avenue. And one of the things that struck out at us, Madam Chair, was the fact that the further you went up Germantown Avenue towards Chestnut Hill, the higher the number of occupied commercial properties above. There was a correlation between second-floor occupancy and viability of the strip. 201 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 So when we dug into it further, it was because of some simple truths. The more people you have in density around businesses, the more customers you have. The perception the security is there because there's more people. The less roll-down gates, the less kind of imprisonment that some commercial corridors feel, because, at 6 o'clock, the roll-down gates go up, and then there's a sense of abandonment and a sense of fear. I believe this legislation will go a long way in changing that condition, and I want to thank all of the members of this committee for considering it.
Thank you very much. I know there's another committee. Miss Robinson, we gave you a chance. We'll give you a moment till someone comes in, because we do have another committee that has assembled. 202 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159
Right, I understand that, Madam Chair, and thank you for very much for the opportunity.
I neglected to mention one thing in my testimony in the past. I want to make sure, with all of this development, that you have community participation. I neglected to say that; it's very important. We have hired you all as our representatives, but you don't know everything that goes on in the community until the people in the community tell you. I would just appreciate it if with each one of these developments, before any letter is sent from any of our representatives, that they know that a community meeting has been held in their district by real constituents of their district. 203 6/7/10 - HOUSING - BILL 100159 And I appreciate your time.
Thank you, Miss Robinson. And, certainly, we agree. And it is the law that we have to have community participation.
And so, certainly we agree with that and concur. Thank you, Mr. Sauer, for being here. We see you back there. As soon as we get another member to come, we can have our vote. Thank you very much. We will conclude our hearing portion of this meeting and go into our formal stated meeting. * * * 204 6/7/10 HOUSING - PUBLIC MEETING
The Chair will now recognize Councilman Jones for a motion with regard to Bill No. 5 100159.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move for the adoption of the amendment to Bill No. 100159, which has already been circulated to the committee members. (Motion duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that the amendment to Bill No. 100159 be adopted. All in favor will say aye. Opposed? The ayes have it. And so, the amendment is adopted. The Chair now recognizes Councilman Jones for a motion with regard to this bill -- with regard to the amended Bill 100159.
Thank you, Madam Chair. 205 6/7/10 HOUSING - PUBLIC MEETING I move that Bill No. 100159, as amended, be reported out of committee, with a favorable recommendation and with a suspension of the rules as to allow for first reading at our next session. (Motion duly seconded.)
It has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 10 100159 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation, as amended, and also that the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. All in favor will say aye. Those opposed? The ayes have it. And so, this bill is reported out. And we note that Councilman O'Neill left his vote on both the amendment and the bill. His vote is accept it and include it. As well as Councilwoman Maria Quiñones, who was in the chambers. We have your vote, Councilwoman. Yes. She 206 6/7/10 HOUSING - PUBLIC MEETING says yes on both the amendment and the bill. Bill No. 100160 will be held subject to the call of the Chair. Bill No. 100359 will be continued until June 16th, at 1 p.m. That is, again, 100159 has been reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a suspension of the rules. 100160 is held subject to the call of the Chair. And 100359 will be continued until June 16th, at 1 p.m. That concludes our deliberations. Thank you all very much. Some of you we'll see next Wednesday. And for everyone else, thank you very much. Thank you to the committee. (Proceedings end at 1:14 p.m.) * * * 207 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings of the City of Philadelphia Council Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development, and the Homeless are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me on Monday, June 7, 2010, and that this is a true and correct statement of same. __________________________________ JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)