COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON HOUSING, NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT AND THE HOMELESS - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Monday, June 7, 2010, 10:20 a.m. - - - BILL 100159 - Amending Chapter 21-1100 of the Philadelphia Code, entitled "Community Development," by amending Section 21-1108, entitled "Economic Development," to increase the percentage of funds that must be allocated to economic development. BILL 100160 - Held at request of sponsor. RES. 100379 - To examine the roles of the RDA and the Department of Public Property in improving housing in the City of Philadelphia. COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Jannie L. Blackwell, Chair William K. Greenlee, Vice Chair Darrell L. Clarke Curtis Jones, Jr. Brian J. O'Neill Maria D. Quiñones-Sanchez Also Present: Blondell Reynolds-Brown - - - 2 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Good morning. We thank you all for being present, and we're calling to order the City Council Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development, and the Homeless. We're going to begin this morning with regard to Resolution No. 10 100379, which was introduced by myself to examine the roles of the Redevelopment Authority and Public Property in improving housing in the City of Philadelphia. We would like to inform you that at the request of the sponsor, Bill 17 No. 100160 will be held. We will also consider Bill No. 19 100159, dealing with mixed-use development today. We're going to begin our hearing, and we ask all those Councilmembers who are in the building to come to chambers with regard to our beginning our hearing, but we're going to 3 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 get started, and we will wait for a quorum, of course, before we do any voting. Having said that, we're going to ask the clerk to read the entire resolution with regard to Resolution No. 8 100379.
A resolution 10 calling for public hearings before the City Council Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development and the Homeless to examine the roles of the Redevelopment Authority and the Department of Public Property in improving housing in the City of Philadelphia. Whereas, the Redevelopment Authority and the Department of Public Property have the responsibility to work with the District Councilperson and Councilpersons-at-large to improve the City of Philadelphia; and Whereas, it is vitally important to have a clear, transparent process to accomplish these ends; and 4 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Whereas, the Redevelopment Authority and the Department of Public Property are involved in the acquisition and disposition of properties in our city; and Whereas, the Redevelopment Authority has the responsibility for condemnation and aid of redeveloping blighted neighborhoods in our City; and Whereas, there is much confusion with regard to the role of the Redevelopment Authority and the Department of Public Property to publish these goals... Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Council of the City of Philadelphia that the Committee on Housing, Neighborhood Development and the Homeless will hold public hearings to examine the roles of the Redevelopment Authority and the Department of Public Property in improving housing in the City of Philadelphia.
Thank 5 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 you very much. Since there are just a few people, and we promised Pastor Jones -- Reverend Jones is pastor of Bibleway Baptist Church -- that he could come forward, since we have just a few people, we realize that this is pretty much a discussion for us. So, as they say on the inside, those of us who work for City Council and who are Councilpeople and those of us who represent housing agencies, we're going to allow him to come forward, invite him to come forward to begin his testimony, introduce himself to the record. And we will call forward anyone else. I'm not sure if we have anyone else who wants to testify on this bill. I'm not sure about -- I'm not sure about this Belfield property, if this is the bill you want to testify for, or if you want to testify for the housing one. This is the -- all right.
(Inaudible; off-mic.) 6 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Thank you. All right. Then we will certainly call on Sister Habiba Ali next. (Pastor Jones comes forward.)
Pastor Jones, please identify yourself for our record.
Good morning, and thank you for allowing me this opportunity to testify this morning. Councilwoman, thank you for convening these hearings. I serve as a senior pastor of the Bibleway Baptist Church, located at 1323 North 52nd Street, in the Third Councilmatic District in the City of Philadelphia. I am here today to express my concerns and, consequentially, my extreme displeasure and frustration as it relates 7 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 to a series of corresponding vacant lots located at 1326, 1328, 30, 32, 34, and 36 North 52nd Street. These vacant properties are located just across the street, on 52nd Street, from the Bibleway Baptist Church building. I came to the Bibleway Church as senior pastor in January of 1994; and not long after that, in 1997, we began a vigorous pursuit of these properties for development. At the time, these properties were occupied by dilapidated, uninhabitable buildings. And when the buildings were demolished, our church voluntarily, and at our own experience, fenced off the property to prevent the lots from being a further eyesore to our community. We've also utilized our own manpower and resources to keep the grass cut on the lot. We have maintained these properties at our own expense for at least 16 years now. And over the years, 8 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 we have dreamed of a number of projects for that property that would both serve our community and enhance the beauty of the neighborhood. So as of this moment, we have a commitment from Keystone Mercy Health Plan to build a full playground on the site for the children of our community. The bill for the project will be covered in its entirety by Keystone Mercy. And so, it goes without saying that our community could use a safe, off-street, modernized play center for our children. Our church has also paid $850 in January of 2010 to the Redevelopment Authority, the owners of these properties, with the exception of one. We waited patiently for a response, and it was not until we contacted our City Councilperson, Councilwoman Blackwell, that we were given a written response on June 3, 2010, via fax to her office, dated March 30, 2010, but never forwarded to our church. 9 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 I have difficulty understanding the significant time gap between our inquiry, payment, and response. And we followed the procedures and the process set forth by the Redevelopment Authority to the letter, which leaves the question that I would like an answer to, if possible: How do we, as citizens, abide by a process that almost seems nonexistent? And why does it take so long for responses to appraisals, particularly after they have received payment of requested fees? I've asked Mayors Rendell, Street, and now Mayor Nutter, for their assistance in securing these properties. I've been asking the Redevelopment Authority for at least the last 13 years. And I've also approached then-Councilman Nutter, when our church was in the 4th Councilmatic District, and now, of course, Councilwoman Blackwell of the 3rd Councilmatic District, since our church 10 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 was affected by redistricting. Again, this is an opportunity to vacant lots and transform them into a beautiful and safe place for our children to play. This projects benefits not only the church but more so, and most importantly, the residents of Carol and Cathedral Parks, in West Philadelphia. 30, to 36 North 52nd Street at 95,000, for a total of $115,000. And this is for properties that have sat as an eyesore to our community, with absolutely no attention from the City, nor the Redevelopment Authority in at least 13 years. So I respectfully request that the cost for properties, including 1328 North 52nd Street, currently owned by PHDC, be given nominal consideration inasmuch as a reputable and an 11 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES.
100379 accomplished developer has already committed to create a beautiful, safe place for our children to play. And I would like to know, why would responsible adults in positions of such great responsibility sit idly by and allow such an opportunity to evade us. And, again Councilwoman, I thank you for this time to testify.
Thank you very much, Pastor Jones. And I realize that the executive director of the Redevelopment Authority, Terry Gillen, has not yet made her testimony, but I would certainly like to request that she come forward and respond to this. (Terry Gillen comes forward.)
Reverend Jones said he's been dealing with this 16 years, and it's time that we get some kind of response with regard to this. I've spoken to the Mayor about 12 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 it. I've -- we've been doing all we can. Everybody knows about it within the system, but certainly nothing seems to move. And the church has gotten someone to agree to build a playground, to donate it, to build a playground there. And if they had the money to, you know, do it -- with money, everything is easy. But certainly, the church has someone ready to donate a playground right across the street from the church, if they can get this land. So we're asking you to respond and let us know what you can do in this regard.
Sure. Good morning, Councilwoman. My name is Terry Gillen, and I'm the executive director of the Redevelopment Authority. And I do agree that 13 years is a long time. I'll have to go back and figure out why it's been in the system for 13 years 'cause that really is a 13 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 signal that the system's really not working well, because years is a 4 really long time to be sort of in and out 5 of -- I mean, it sounds like it's the 6 third administration that this project's 7 in. 8 So I'll be happy to look into 9 it and get back to you quickly about it. 10
11 Certainly. And for all of those who are 12 here and those who are listening in their 13 offices, we only do this publicly when we can't resolve it privately. All of us, as District Council members and Councilpeople-at-large, have issues in our respective districts that beg a response. And certainly -- certainly, if in 13 years we haven't heard from this, it's just unconscionable. And that is one of the reasons we're having this hearing, because we couldn't get this and many other issues resolved in short order. 14 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No questions.)
As we said, this is a 13-year-old project; the church has been working on it for 8 years. They have people who are willing 9 to donate and build a playground on the 10 spot right across the street from their 11 church; all they need is the land. And 12 it's still hanging in abeyance. And, 13 certainly, we need a response. 14 And this is just an example of 15 why we are having this hearing today. 16
You know, we have to be able to -- we feel that housing, our development agenda in this city is stuck, it's stymied, it's not moving. And we need things to move forward. We're elected to make sure that projects move in our city. We have people who come to us. Those who want to 15 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 buy property haven't been able to buy it. People who need side yards haven't been able to get them. And people like this, churches like this, who have someone willing to build a project for free, and we don't know why -- we don't even know why appraisals take so long. And we believe these appraisals are high; that's one of the questions we want to ask Miss Gillen. But we want to know just how we move from here and when we can expect a response to this issue.
Well, Councilwoman, I hear the last point you made, which is about appraisals, and I share some of your concerns about the appraisal system. Sometimes -- I mean, we know for a fact that appraisals are sometimes inaccurate; and sometimes they come in high and sometimes they come in low. It's very -- it's one of the issues that we've been grappling with a lot. 16 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 So I will be more than happy to take a look at the appraisals here and to find out whether there's something off about the appraisals. I hear you and --
And Dr. Jones said one was for -- what were the two amounts?
Well, 1326 was for $20,000. And 1330 to 36 is 95,000, for a total of $115,000.
And as I said, they have someone ready to donate a playground and build it for them. But it's just unconscionable that you have to wait we don't know how long or why, and we'd like an answer to that, why appraisals take so long; then after you get them, you can't depend on them being fair and honest and that they are compared to projects in that area. We've seen appraisals where 17 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 we're told they're compared to projects in an area so far away that it's an exorbitant amount. It's not compared to like-minded properties on the block. So we would like a -- we're asking you to respond to that as well.
Okay. And can I -- can I ask, Councilwoman, do you have a sense of what you think the appraisals should be? I can talk to your staff about this afterwards, if you want.
I'm -- we believe that they should be given a nominal consideration because they're getting 'em built for free.
And the company is donating all of the labor, donating the playground equipment; they're going to do all of it, if they can get then land. So we're asking for nominal consideration.
Okay, I 18 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 understand.
And thank you, those who have come from your church. Thank you very much. Any other questions?
I think this is a good opportunity, and I've been participating with Ms. Gillen on the Vacant Property Task Force for the City, and I know that the problems that we see as it relates to RDA and this disposition of property and Public Property is not new. But, Terry, for the record, I think if you could provide a summary update of where we are and some of the issues that I think are of concern for us at Council that we're attempting to address as it relates to that discussion.
The vacant 19 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 property discussion?
And the whole disposition, 'cause I think part of the frustration is, you know, everybody's known about the housing alphabet soup that we have, and we are all waiting for an articulation from the Administration about what we're going to do around property in a comprehensive, cohesive way to ensure that we are leveraging our property and property as a resource around community development. And I think the Vacant Task Force, while it addresses some of the issues, it doesn't address the bigger issue, but at least where you think we've made some progress, that should go on the record.
Sure. Thank you. Yeah. I've certainly been working with the Redevelopment staff since I came into the Redevelopment 20 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Authority two years ago to try to figure out how we can reform the City's vacant property system, which is clearly broken. I mean, it's -- you know, the example that was just here is a symbol of how broken the system is. And there have been many studies documenting that the system doesn't work, that vacant land is sitting out there 10, 20, 30 years. And there have been various attempts to try to fix the system; I would say none of them have really been able to get at some of the fundamental problems. So early last year, in early '09, we became a part of a national vacant land coalition because this is, as you can imagine, a problem that many cities are seeing. And there are a number of cities that have really tackled this issue in a way that I think is worth looking at. And so, as part of a Ford Foundation-funded effort, our staff got 21 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 trained a little bit in some systems that have been developed in the Midwest, most notably in Genesee County, Michigan, which is where Flint, Michigan is, which completely overhauled their system I would say about six years ago in a way that -- what Flint essentially does is, it's brought the land management part of the government together with the tax foreclosure part of the government. And they've determined that one of the main reasons for vacant land sitting out there is because the sheriff's sale process essentially was broken in Flint. And so, what they've done is, they've revamped the sheriff's sale process so that properties now go through the tax foreclosure process in no 20 more than three years. And as a result, vacant land doesn't sit out there for longer than three years. So they've completely revamped the sheriff's sale part of the process. 22 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 As a result, they then take all of that land into a publicly-controlled land-bank system that does a couple of things. The first thing is that it sets up clear and transparent rules about how you sell land and how you give it away so everybody understand the rules. So that if they've all determined that certain uses need to be get nominal consideration, the way we do in Philadelphia, we've decided that we'll give a property away if it's for affordable housing. They list all of that. Or they'll say, for certain types of uses, it will be less than fair market but it won't be zero. So everyone, you know, the city council and all of the land management agencies have gotten together and have determined what the rules of the game are so that developers understand. What that enables them to do is get to scale because, rather than in Philly, where every transaction is being 23 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 done one at a time -- and we never get to scale. We've got 30, 40,000 vacant properties out there, and we're not going to fix this problem if we keep doing it in onesies and twosies. The appealing thing about their system is that it enables them to get to scale, and the land bank agency, which is self-funded because of the foreclosure situation, then has the resources to do the development and to get the properties out. So they feel that it's been a success. So in Philadelphia, what we've done is, we've started to take a look at that system and to think about would what that sort of system look like in Philadelphia. Not saying we're going to import it to Philly but to take some of the elements of that system and think about what that would look like in Philadelphia. And one of the things, Councilwoman, that you've been helpful in 24 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 helping us think about is that, obviously, different neighborhoods in Philadelphia have different needs.
And so, it may be that in certain neighborhoods where we have a really healthy market, we want to sell the property for fair market value. But in other neighborhoods, where the market's not so strong, we need to give it away or to do a nominal or a less-than-fair-market consideration. So I think the ability to rank the neighborhoods and to really make the disposition sort of dependent on the neighborhood considerations is one of the ideas that we're exploring, 'cause up until now, we've had this one-size-fits- all policy. And what we've learned, I think, and what other cities have learned too -- I mean, we're just sort of piggy- backing on it -- is that one size just doesn't fit all, and we've got to have a more nuanced, sort of market-based 25 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 disposition system that really is going to be more responsive, I think, to the needs especially of the District Councilmembers. I also just want to make one more point, which is that we are working with other cities in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. They're, you know, not only Pittsburgh, and Allegheny County but many cities in Pennsylvania, and we've been working with the Housing Alliance of Pennsylvania because there is -- there are different people in the state looking at how to reform this system on a statewide basis, and we're -- you know, we're working with that group as well. It may be that in the next term of the General Assembly, we'll be able to work with members of the General Assembly to try to get some of the tools that I think we don't have in Philadelphia to bring around vacant land reform.
Yeah. I think one of the frustrations -- 'cause I 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 think everybody knows that our systems are broken and we have to fix it. I think until we get to that, to whether we decide, whether it's land banking, virtual land banking, or whatever, I think what my Council colleagues and I would like to see is, can we at least agree on a process in the interim, where good projects, like the one being spoken about this morning, do not get held up in our deciding where we're going to go for the future.
And I think it's incumbent of us -- I mean, many of us are frustrated as it relates to NTI, October tax-credit deals, the timeline is set that while we wait out this reform process, and we know it's going to take quite a bit time, there are things that are being stalled. And I think it's important to note that a lot of these projects, or potential projects, are things that 27 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 people have been working on for a very long time. So I guess, is the Administration at this point willing to say, you know, let's move this bottleneck and let's get through what we have in the pipeline or in the stuff that's bottlenecked, and then let's engage in a dialogue around some shared responsibilities in this. And I think that's where we're at. I was a little disappointed that in the meeting hosted by Councilwoman Blackwell that you were not present, because I think that rather than get to a hearing stage -- although we should have hearings 'cause I think it's important for people to hear the complications and the frustrations of all of this --
-- I think that we could be at a better place now. And it's very difficult for us to 28 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 potentially lose NTI money and tax credit deals because we want to get it right and perfect, and we're not going to get it right and perfect. Do you think that we are going to be able to work through the summer on some of this so we can move these projects?
Yeah, Councilwoman. Absolutely, Councilwoman, absolutely. And I think that's a good way to put it because I do think you're right. I think we've got to work on an interim basis at least to try to get these projects moving now, while we try to do long-term reform. I think it's sort of like changing the tires on the car while you're driving the car. I think we've got to do both of them. And I'm not the expert on VPRC. I'll just say for the record that even though VPRC projects get disposed of 29 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 through the Redevelopment Authority, we do not staff the vacant property system, so I'll let the Public Property Commissioner and the Director of the Housing Office talk about that in more detail. But, as you know, we have been trying to move the VPRC backlog. When we came in, there was a huge backlog in the VPR system. And my staff, working with those staff, have tried to figure out, are there any of these projects are pretty -- that we can all agree need to move immediately, where we can all agree that these fit certain criteria that make sense to move. And, you know, we've -- and your staff has been incredibly helpful with that process and unbelievably knowledgeable and really helpful in helping to move that forward. So I think we're committed to that. I understand the frustration on NTI. I think a lot of these projects 30 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 would benefit from NTI dollars. It's not my fault that the NTI faucet was turned off; it's not anybody's here's fault that the NTI faucet was turned off. Happily, it's been turned back on, so I think now, any land acquisitions that need NTI dollars can move forward, you know, and we're prepared to certainly move those this summer.
So will RDA be leading that process of NTI? And when can we begin to sit down to talk what's our NTI pipeline?
We do -- we will not lead it. We will -- our staff will certainly do all of the acquisitions. But the way the -- it's going to be similar to the way it works before the faucet was turned off so that you all, I think, had meetings Deb McCulloch, the Housing Director. She's got those lists from last fall; I think she's in the process of updating them with you guys. And when those lists are -- and for some 31 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 of you, we know that the list is ready to go now. And so, we have this internal committee that used to be called IRAT, the Inner Agency Review-something or other, that we have that exists now. And the internal committee is the Office of Housing, staff from the Redevelopment Authority, staff from the Mayor's Office, staff from Commerce, and staff from Planning that get together and review all of those projects, make a recommendation to the Chief of Staff. Because, as you may remember, as a result of the Controller's audit, now the final responsibility, which wasn't in place before, now rests with the Chief of Staff's office. So anything that needs Chief of Staff sign-off we'll send over there. But in most cases, it will be pretty standard to just move the land acquisitions along. And all of that is in place now. So I would say, you know, we're 32 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 prepared to move all of this summer. And we're mindful of the bond deadline, so we understand that it's going to be a lot to crank out this year.
I mean, we've gotten very comfortable with having Governor Rendell and Brian Hudson and those folks. But, you know, if we don't take advantage of this next round --
Exactly, exactly. And we are, you know -- and, fortunately, we believe we have not lost any tax credit opportunities as a result of NTI. The City got its full share of tax credit funding in the last round. But the Mayor has instructed us to make sure that we get our full share going forward. So we 33 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 will work with any tax-credit deals to make sure that that process moves quickly.
Thank you. I don't want to manipulate it. I don't know if anybody else --
Madam Chair, are we going to have the other witnesses, or should we just proceed with Terry?
We have Sister Habiba Ali. I don't believe that... And I believe that -- I don't see Steve Williams from the Partnership CDC or Michael Mattioni.
Yes, he's here. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's in the back.
Oh, Steve's back there. Yeah, so we will 34 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 have them, so we will...
We will allow our guests to testify; there's only a handful. That's why did it in reverse. Then we will come back to ask. And during the interim, we ask the executive director of RDA, we really want specific times. Working on it over the summer and then we come back in mid-September is not tight enough for me. You know, a person who's been waiting 13 years should be able to know certainly in about a week where we are. And certainly with regard to NTI and these issues, we want specific answers because that's why we're here, 'cause we can't get it done any other way. So that is why we're here to deal with this. So you can consider that while we call up other people to testify. And then we'll take questions. 35 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Meanwhile -- excuse me, Ms. Gillen. (Addressing Councilwoman Miller.) You wanted to ask on this issue. And before the Councilman speaks, let me note that we do have our quorum. Councilman Bill Greenlee is vice chair; he's sitting next to me. Councilman Clarke, Councilwoman Miller, Sanchez, Councilman Jones are here, and this committee does have a quorum. And we do thank Councilwoman Reynolds-Brown who's also here and concerned and thank you very much.
Ms. Gillen, I'm going back to the discussion about the church and the playground and the appraisals. And so, it's for Councilwoman Blackwell's -- hopefully to try to help her.
It would 36 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 seem to me that the logical way for the City to approach this would be to see if the City could lease the ground from RDA, sublease it through the Department of Recreation and Public Property to the church, the church taking responsibility for, first of all, constructing the playground; and secondly, for maintaining it and keeping it up. So the City doesn't have any operating costs to speak of. And that seems like the solution that makes more sense than arguing over whether 115,000 or 50,000 or nominal is the right number, because you don't have the appraisal issue at that point, and you have the public good, with the City not being able to afford to this service either on the construction side or the maintenance/operation side. And it's a win/win from a public policy standpoint. And I would just ask you to consider doing that and ask Councilwoman 37 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Blackwell to -- that's something we can actually move on fairly quickly, if we can do it.
Sure. No, Councilman, that makes great sense. I don't know whether anybody thought of that before; I certainly didn't.
You know, years 11 is a long time, and I don't know what 12 people have sort of been doing for 13 13 years.
But I will absolutely consider that because I think that may be one way to break the impasse.
Thank you. And, Dr. Jones, you can think 38 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 about that as well, as one of the options on the table. Thank you. Steve Williams, Executive Director, Partnership CDC. Is Mattioni Limited here?
Please identify yourself for the record, and thank you for coming.
Good morning. My name is Steve Williams. I'm the executive director for the Partnership CDC. We are located at 4020 Market Street, in the Third Councilmatic District. I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify this morning. The Partnership CDC is coming before the Council to speak about a development that was a partnership between the Partnership CDC and Charles 39 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Lomax Company for the 4500 block of Sansom Street. We were a part of this development that started back in, I believe, 2004. And it was -- approximately units were completed by 7 2007 on the 4500 block of Sansom Street 8 and on South 46th Street in West 9 Philadelphia. Of those 16 units that 10 were developed, two of those units were 11 affordable, and 14 were market rate. 12 The development strategy for 13 this project was to develop the market- 14 rate units and cross-subsidize the 15 affordable units. As I said, this 16 development happened between 2005 and 2007. The Partnership CDC entered into a redevelopment agreement for two parcels, 4530 and 4534 Sansom Street, in March of 2004. As the development of the block progressed, the market-rate units began -- we began doing predevelopment work for these two parcels and submitted the first proposal to develop these 40 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 parcels in 2006. As we moved along, the development partners realized that these units being developed as two standalone were not feasible to stand forward, as the market-rate units started slowing down, which we were using for a cross-subsidization. And during the next couple of years, the financing for these two parcels became very difficult to move forward. I became the executive director in June of 2008. And I was -- I received a letter from the RDA in August of 2008 saying that we needed to move the project forward or we would be in default. I was given a 180-day period. I scheduled a meeting, and I met with RDA and OHCD to discuss the matter. We did have a $80,000 subsidy from the Housing Trust Fund for the project at that time. When I met with them, it became apparent that to try to develop these as 41 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 two standalone projects using the subsidy would not work, that we had to change the mix up. So what I came up with -- I met with Charles Lomax, who was the original partner in the development, and we came up with a development scheme where we would do a duplex that would allow a moderate-rate and affordable unit to be created. So four units will be created on those two parcels. Along with that, we secured financing from a PNC affiliate. At this point, we have financing and the plans that were developed for the site. I reached out to -- I reached out to Councilwoman Blackwell to assist with talking to the RDA and in expressing that we did have the financing and were able to move forward. Unfortunately, in 2009, October, I received a letter stating that my extension would not be granted based on securing financing and having a 42 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 development partner. I acknowledge the delay in developing the parcels, but at this particular point, we've demonstrated that we have a commitment to completing the Sansom project. The CDC has pulled together the financing and the development partner and can move forward immediately. And this would generate four units in the Penn Alexander are catchment area that would allow affordable families to take advantage of a great public school district, which is a great amenity for this. If the -- if we are forced to buy this at market rate, it will eliminate the possibility of doing affordable units in this particular catchment area. Thank you.
Thank you. We're going to ask Ms. Gillen 43 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 to come and respond. This is an area we worked on for many, many, many years. It was a terrible block. And certainly, with Lomax involved -- and we've had -- this was one of the -- that the corner of this block was where the Mayor announced his NTI agenda and the NTI bond that he would float, right at the corner of 45th and Sansom. And so, it's a historic place, and it is one that we've come a long way. And to get funding and be told that projects are snatched back are -- is a big issue. So we want to ask Ms. Gillen to respond.
Sure. Let me just make sure I understand. So you want to move ahead with this project as an affordable housing project not market-rate; is that correct?
Okay. Again, I'll -- I'll have to just double-check on 44 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 exactly where it is. But if it's got financing ready to go, we will grant an extension and move it along. So I -- all I can think is that in general, we're being -- you know, if we look at a project and it's really ready to go and there's plans and financing in place, we're generally granting extensions and letting those things go. So is that the status of this right now?
Thank you. Thank you very much. And thank you both. So we have our answer. We're ready to go. So you will then -- we appreciate getting that issue resolved. And this will raise why -- can Ivan Tancredi and Mattioni come forward. This is a big issue. As you know, Ms. Gillen, we'll talk a little bit 45 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 later, after they testify, with regard to the Sign Center -- I know that's in court -- and other major issues, that Morman Church, issues that are in court, when people who have means are in the process of developing things just don't make sense to us, but we'll talk about that a little bit. Thank you both very much for coming. (Witness comes forward.)
Please identify yourself for the record and begin your testimony.
Council President, John Mattioni for Michael, who's otherwise engaged.
Thank 46 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 you. Thank you for coming. Mr. Tancredi, thank you for what you've done to support projects in the neighborhood over the years.
Madam Chairwoman, Mr. Tancredi has been involved in the business of roofing supply and related products for many years.
He's been in the community for 15 years and completed a significant expansion three years ago with the addition of a 12,000-square-foot warehouse and has made, as you recognize, a substantial commitment to the community.
But at this point, what he would, like, to do is 47 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 start planning for the future. He's attempting to assemble and acquire a number of properties adjacent to his parent location, has widespread community support. And of course, with the present economic situation, doesn't have the ability to immediately undertake the full expansion. But he has, for the past three years, been attempting, through RDA, to prepare for acquiring properties. At that point, if -- and this will all be through private funding. All of his previous acquisitions and expansion have been privately funded. And he has a facility in South Philadelphia. This is his West Philadelphia commitment, and it's a tremendous commitment to the City. The problem we've been having is that it's -- I've been listening to the problems of 13 years and 16 years. And we're almost like babies in the sense that we're only talking about a three- 48 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 year process. On the other hand, that process seems to have ground to a halt. And while we have great assistance from your office and have been working diligently to try to assemble the package and move the project along, we've kind of reached the point of impasse. And so, basically, that's where we are. The facility itself, as you know, is in the 4600 block of Lancaster Avenue. The properties are on Lancaster Avenue and on Merion. And the difficulty, as we said, is the garnering full support from RDA in getting the package together so we could move forward. Our present plan is to acquire the properties for future expansion and, as the circumstances permit, to do that future expansion with -- it's, again, fully privately funded.
Thank you very much. We're going to ask Ms. Gillen to respond to that. 49 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 And keep in mind that Mr. Tancredi and Mattioni Limited have not only tried to expand their business, but they have helped other small businesses. They have contributed in the area and they have hired ten to twelve people from the community to work there. So they have done all the things that we ask businesses to do, and we're asking you to find a way to work with them. Thank you. Ms. Gillen is going to come back.
I started the business in 1981. We have four locations in this city. All of my businesses -- most of our business is done in Philadelphia. All four locations are in Philadelphia; one in South Philadelphia, one west, and two north. Thank you. 50 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
And, Councilwoman, I'm just not familiar with the project, so I will look into it and get back to you within a couple of days and let you know --
That will be fine, because they have been wonderful in our community. Thank you.
As I said, they've hired ten to twelve people, they have other small businesses, they help community groups across the board. And this is an example where the it seems -- we understand that the RDA has been taking properties where there is not a specific plan. But if RDA works with them, they will -- given the economy, they will -- and to acquire the properties, they'll be ready to go. By the time all is done, they should be ready to move. And, hopefully, our economy will change. I don't believe that we 51 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 should penalize our businesses for the downturn in the economy because it means they get punished twice -- punished by the very nature of the economy and then punished again because we won't work with them do be in place to get things done, especially when the Councilpeople agree with them, understand them, and support their projects. So we look forward to hearing from you in a few days about this. Thank you.
Thank you, both gentlemen. And this is an example --
As I said, we'll talk a little later about the Sign Center and this Morman church because these are issues where land was taken back, or threatened to be taken back, because of a lack of an initial 52 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 program with developers that have means. So it's hard enough for small businesses, but for whose who have means and we take 'em back. When this Council has to support by resolution for someone else to get 'em, it doesn't make sense. If we support 'em, why can't we work it out. Sister Habiba Ali, thank you very much. Rays of Hope, come forward and make your testimony. And we believe that is it for community people. If you are here and you would like to testify at this time before we go back to the Administration with regard to this resolution, please let us know. Come to the side, Mr. Christmas will take your any name and we will let you testify. And then it will be our discussion with regard to Redevelopment Authority, OHCD, Office of Housing and Community Development, and VPRC and Public Property. Thank you. 53 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning, Chairwoman Blackwell. Good morning, Councilmembers. And good morning to Council President Verna in the event she's hearing from her chambers. My name is Habiba Ali. I am the founder and executive director of Rays of Hope, Incorporated, which was incorporated in 1993. As most of you know, 'cause I've grown up in front of a lot of you, that I am a formerly homeless woman of four children, who was homeless in Philadelphia in the shelter system in the late '80s. I'm here today regarding a project that is called the Belfield Avenue Development. I notice Miss Millen or Gillen, or whatever her name is, has left, and I would like to hold my comments or statements because she needs to be able to respond. And if she has to take a 54 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 ladies' room or a cigarette break, if she could be made to return to the room, whatever the case is. Perhaps some of staff know where she's gone. Because I've asked several times to meet with this woman, and I have never been given the opportunity to meet and/or speak with her. And she is the first person running the Redevelopment Authority in the twenty-some years that I've been dealing in housing for the homeless and low-income that I have not been granted a meeting or as much as the respect of a phone conversation. This is the first time I've laid eyes on her. At least I know who she is when I see her again. I don't appreciate her leaving. If she has to go to the bathroom, I understand, but I want the same respect that she gave everyone else.
Yes, ma'am. But it's 55 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 imperative that she hears what I have to say.
You can hold your statement. And when she comes back, we'll have you -- she will be right back. Is this there anyone else who wants to testify before we begin our Council discussion? Okay. Then we'll wait a moment.
And as we said and we will repeat when she comes back, we made a copy of our concerns available to her, and we want to go through each one while we're here today, 56 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 to hear her response with regard to those issues.
I would just like to ask, Councilwoman, does the members of the committee have the folder that was supplied from Rays of Hope this morning?
I'll make sure that they -- yes, everyone has their folders. Thank you for making that available because we didn't duplicate it; Sister Ali did.
Okay. So we'll just pause a moment as we wait for her. And, again, I realize where we are in Council at this point on our calendar year. But, certainly, it is important that we deal with these issues, that we have a timeline, and that we understand what will happen so that we 57 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 may clear the air and have a process for moving forward. We can't wait a whole term. Next year, we run for reelection. We can't wait a whole term and then say what's going to happen; it's just too long. And we don't have the -- funds have deadlines, and so do people who live in neighborhoods that need attention. So we're looking forward to full dialogue on these issues. While Ms. Gillen is out of the room... Thank you. So, Sister Ali we'll call you back?
And meanwhile, Sister Judith Robinson, would you come forward. (Witness comes forward.)
Please 58 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 identify yourself for the record and make your testimony. Welcome.
Let me ask the sponsor of the bill if he would like to comment on why the bill is being held, 100160.
Short answer, a short story made shorter. We have worked with the Administration to figure out how to address a more specific need, and it will be addressed in the bill that addresses mixed-use development and dedicating 5 percent of the mixed-use funds going 59 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 towards commercial downstairs and residential upstairs properties. And that will be discussed in that particular portion of the bill. Satisfaction on that bill has led us to at least hold that bill until further notice.
Right. Okay, thank you very much. And I have clarity right now. I'm Judith Robinson, here to testify on Bill No. 100379. And I am very interested in the Redevelopment Authority and their whole process as well as the Department of Public Property. For many years now, I've attended Redevelopment Authority board 60 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 meetings, and they are very, very much instrumental in how our communities develop. That being said, the things I have been concerned about over the years is when -- and I'm going back to Neighborhood Transformation Initiative. When that program was implemented, I know for a fact that people were not getting fair market value for their homes when they were taken through eminent domain. I found out recently that there's a licensed real estate broker on the board of -- not on the board, I'm sorry, that's part of the Redevelopment Authority's process. And now, they're able to use the multiple listing service, the same one we as professionals use. So it's hard for me to understand from using that process that they would have come up with such low market value. If we're all using the same information, why would a market value so low for people who are losing 61 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 their homes through eminent domain, they did not get fair market value, some as low as 3500. And upon protest, I think a few thousands were added to these folks' value at the time that they went to settlement on their property that was taken through eminent domain. I was very concerned about that. Now, I notice that has quieted down a bit; we don't have as much eminent domain. But I'm just saying let's get some clarity here, let's have some real transparency here, because on one hand, you give low market value; when you're taking someone's property through eminent domain, that's the only property they have, they've lived in it for many years, and here you come, government, and you want to take the property. At least give the people fair market value so they'll be able to live the rest of their lives and feel like they haven't been ripped off by the government. So that's one 62 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 area of concern. Consistency in value. When you take property, give fair market value. Then let's talk about disposition. When you dispose of a property, it's a very much inconsistency here. When I found out that there was a professional real estate broker on -- in the process, in the Redevelopment Authority's process, I found that out because they had put a property on the market, using the multiple listing. I said, How did you do that? Oh, well, we have a broker on staff. All right. If you have a broker on staff, use that broker. You're using them for one thing; use them to make sure that people are getting a fair value when it goes to disposition. There's some inconsistencies there. And I don't want to be disrespectful to any of the professionals who are doing their job. But you give a weak, low market value when you're taking 63 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 people's property, and you're given a strange inconsistencies of market value when you go to dispose of a property. It's like wheeling and dealing in real estate. Yes, you are. And you should be fair about it and clear and transparent so everybody can know it is what it is. If you're going to sell property at fair market value, then we all get the same fair market value. I'm concerned that African- Americans don't get the same type of disposition that other folks get; I want to be clear about that. You know, how many African-American developers are there? Are they treated with respect, in the same kind of open-door policy that other folks are? All of these things should be brought to the table, because as we wheel and deal in real estate, I just don't want the time to pass where we play like we don't know who can develop and who 64 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 can't.
I mean, it's not that complicated. Especially with all these deals that are in the paper lately -- $1 for your (indiscernible) here and some wheeling and dealing over here with the children's -- the center, the court center. I mean, it's a bunch of nonsense, especially when we don't have a lot of money, so we say. So some of my questions are: What is the criteria being used to determine who's considered a land developer? You know, what are the open and transparent process that one would have to take to get some land from this land-banking that's been going on for the past 35, 50 years, okay? Let it be open and clear. I want to know -- 'cause I asked this question before -- how much money is left from the NTI? How much money is available? Now, two, as our city moves 65 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 towards selling some of the public land, to be honest with you, I'm really happy about that, but I want to make sure that that process is open and transparent. There are some people who have been waiting to try to get a side yard next to their home, can't get it, it's tied up in legalese. You got letters stating that the property is not available. Sometimes, if it's an abandoned house, it sits and rots while we get this notice saying that it's not available. City-owned properties. City of Philadelphia comes through the Public Property process. Let's make sure it's transparent, let's make sure everybody can partake in the bounty. You never know who has money, and people are looking for opportunities. Let's just hope that we can make this a transparent process, where we go through one, two, three, four, five steps at the maximum to get properties in 66 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 the hands of people who can develop them. I've seen at RDA where you have people who say they're going to develop. They get a chance to stretch their development agreement out, they get all kinds of amendments to it, et cetera. But some people can't even get to first base. How do you do that? Where's the clarity, where's the openness, where is the transparency? Thank you, Madam Chair, for having this hearing today. Maybe I'll have some other questions, suggestions, or answers after I hear some additional testimony. Thank you very much for your attention.
Thank you, Miss Robinson, thank you. Miss Ali? (Witness comes forward.)
And this is our final community person. Then we'll get to our discussions on these issues. 67 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 And as we've said, we've made our concerns available to the Administration. And so, we would like to deal with them issue-by-issue, and that is how we intend on dealing with the rest of this hearing in addition to whatever issues my colleagues may raise. Thank you. Miss Ali?
Thank you again, Chairwoman Blackwell, for allowing me to speak. I'm speaking today, again, on the behalf of Rays of Hope, Incorporated. As I stated earlier, I am the founder and the executive director of it. Rays of Hope deals with housing, the homeless, and low-income. I've had firsthand experience with homelessness. When my children were small, we were in the homeless shelter system in the late '80s. And I was the first-tenant council president of Dignity Housing; I served on their board for many 68 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 years as the first-tenant chair of that organization. It was an $11 million program at the time. I learned quite a bit in those years, working with Dignity Housing, in terms of how the mechanisms of housing works in the City of Philadelphia, with the RDA and OHCD. It's going back as far as Mr. Eisenstat and John Kromer. We have been very successful, though we're very small. 2 million fund from HUD and OHCD to build units in Councilwoman Miller's, the 8th Councilmatic District, at 1735, 7, and 9 Belfield Avenue, which we acquired from VPRC, our nonprofit. Things were moving along very well. And there's documentation that will substantiate everything that I'm saying to you today in terms of the funding that we received, the $200,000 predevelopment money that we received 69 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 from OHCD under Mr. Kevin Hannah at the time and Dainette Mintz as well as Miss Deborah McCulloch. Councilwoman Miller, on our request, met with the authorities at the Redevelopment Authority and OHCD to find out why is it that this project is stalemated. I heard you say a few moments ago, Councilwoman Miller, regarding resources; and if you have money, then you can do things. Well, the money is here; that's not the problem. The money has been allocated. As far as we're concerned, as the nonprofit, our project left OHCD prematurely. It left the predevelopment phase before it was supposed to, to go onto the Redevelopment Authority. We have been stalled for a while because as we signed with an entity that OHCD recommended, they were mismanaging this project. Someone in the office of Diamond & Associates signed a $75,000 contract without our permission 70 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 and/or authority, so we had to let them go, and it stalled this project for a while, until we were able to identify a new technical consultant, and we have, which is Thelma Jackson of TJ & Consultants. Unfortunately, Miss Jackson's on vacation till tomorrow and was not able to be here today. We had a oral commitment from Miss McCulloch, from OHCD, that the Office of Housing and Community Development would support this project, understanding that there were environmental issues when did the eco testing at this site, and there would be additional revenue required. OHCD had made a commitment in a meeting with Councilwoman Miller and with Herb Weitzel and some of Councilwoman Miller's staff. I believe in attendance to that meeting also was Deborah McCulloch, Miss Mullen, Millen -- if I'm saying her name incorrectly, please forgive me, the director of RDA, and 71 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 another gentleman from the Redevelopment Authority. It was stated that if Rays of Hope was willing, because we are new at building from the ground, if we were willing to take a partnership or backseat -- I don't want to use the language that may have been used in that meeting -- to give our project to someone, a developer -- this is HUD money. We can't give this money or reallocate it to anyone other than the nonprofit that it was issued to, that we were willing to join into some type of partnership with a developer, that they would support this project.
I'm happy to say that in this environment of the City and with Mayor Rendell -- I'm sorry, Nutter, stating that he wants Philadelphia to be the first city to go green in the nation, we are blessed to have entered into an agreement with Onion Flats, LLC, who is building in Northern Liberties and are 72 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 building multi-million-dollar properties all over the City and around the country as well as the world, and we were able to do this with the help of Councilwoman Miller and her office. So this nonprofit will be the first nonprofit in the City that will be able to build a hundred percent green housing that's accessible, affordable, low-income for homeless families that are stuck in the shelter system. The money is not the problem. We have gotten -- jointed into -- we have found a developer that is willing to build these houses for the money that is allocated on the table. In the meeting with Councilwoman Miller and her staff, there was a oral made from these powers to be over my left shoulder, stating that they would put the necessary monies together if we were willing to join into a group, to take the backseat, let the developer develop it, let them be responsible, because we haven't built 73 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 from the ground, though we have many years in rehabilitation, and then to turn the project back over to Rays of Hope when we are ready to put the families in the units. We had an emergency board meeting with our consultant. Our board of directors agreed, let's move forward. It's going on two months since we made that decision. It is our understanding and feeling and position -- and we could be wrong; we've been wrong before, and so have these people over my left shoulder. This money is time-sensitive, it is HUD-allocated, it is time-sensitive. You don't have to have a 3rd-grade education to know that they're trying to stall it until you go out on your summer break. We come back in September, we have to have this project done in a certain time frame. Every time I would call the young lady or meet with the young lady, 74 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Miss Holland, who was assigned this, I'm constantly given this document. You have to meet all of these criteria, you have to meet all of these criteria. And I'm sure they have a copy of this criteria; I saw it over there this morning. Well, this is for a development. We are in predevelopment. We have begged and written and pleaded for these powerful people, so they think, to please put this back in predevelopment, take it from development stage because it moved prematurely. I don't know what the problem is. I'm bringing it to you all before I take it to HUD and to Washington and to around this country. If the homeless, handicapped people in this city is not given the opportunity to live in beautiful, subsidized, affordable, green housing due to OHCD and RDA dragging their feet, pushing them from pillar to post, playing ping-pong with us, they will know, 75 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 everyone in this country will know, that the taxpayers' money in the City of Philadelphia is being played with because people can't use the -- I can't get on the phone, or they're traveling, they're in a meeting, we don't know, blah-blah- blah. And then they're going to lie to my Councilwoman. And enough is enough. With these big salaries that they're getting, they need to be held accountable, and they need to be replaced, just like everybody else can be laid off. Welcome to the new world. These people need to be held accountable. This project started in 2004. They have the invoices that they are holding from 2008. They have the invoices, they have the contract, they have the money. I don't know what the problem is. I'm a very excitable person, as you know, Councilwoman, but as you know, I've always been on the side of the poor, 76 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES.
100379 the downtrodden, and the homeless, 'cause I've been there. And I prayed to the creator to help use me to house those people from where I come. I am sick and tired of the political games. I am not getting paid for what I'm doing, I've never done what I'm doing for money. I think that these people get big salaries and forget who it is that they are working for. They are working for the citizens of Philadelphia. You are their bosses. They need to either piss or get off the pot or be laid off or removed or replaced. I'm begging and pleading with you all for these people to tell us why. We have crossed every T, dotted every I, jumped through the circles. When they set the circles on fire, made me put on kerosene underwear, I jumped through 'em backwards and forward. I've done everything I possibly can. If they want Sister Habiba to come with all the masses and the 77 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 bullhorns and the people with the wheelchairs and block traffic and blah-blah-blah, I'm not above doing that. I'm in my fifties now; I don't want to do that if I don't have to. But I am willing to do that. I'm going to the media, I'm going to HUD, I'm going to the White House. I'm coming to you first because it is the right thing to do. I have talked, I have written letters, we have spent money, I'm blue in the face. This is my last resort. The pen is mightier than the sword. They can give you answers today. We need to know by the end of this week what is their position, what is the holdup. Enough is enough. I have had it. The activists are ready to roll.
I'm so sick of tying up traffic because these people are 78 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 acting like they're too busy. Or, you know, just let Rays of Hope -- oh, oh, oh, Habiba. It's not about Habiba; it's about the homeless people in the shelters, where I lived and slept on the floor with my babies that I'm try to provide housing for. The money is there. What is the problem?
Thank you very much. Thank you, Sister Ali. We want to thank you for your passionate testimony. We are going to call them back up now. We've heard your request that you hear by the end of the week. We've talked with Councilwoman Miller, who certainly is concerned as you are and obviously has supported you in the past. And we'll ask that that be our first question to them, to respond within the next few days, as they have on these other projects, that we should hear 79 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 something on them all.
If Councilwoman Miller could please speak on this project, because she has taken the time out of her schedule during all of the budget hearings to talk to these people.
Thank you. Councilwoman Miller? Thank you, Sister Ali.
I just want to add a few words to some of what 80 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 you've already said. And that is that, you know, we've been working with you on this project since 2004, and things seemed to be going, you know, pretty quickly at one point. Then it slowed down, and then we had to get -- do a land substitution. But we did meet what, I guess about a month ago?
I met with RDA and OHCD around six weeks or so or whatever ago --
-- to discuss the final stages, or what I was hoping was the final stages of this project. And at the end of the meeting, there were a couple of things that they asked me to do, which I did, and that was 81 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 talk to you. You talked to your board, and we talked to Onion Flats. And that's where it stopped. So I am very frustrated also. We sent a letter out and sent a e-mail out last week again regarding the status of this project to RDA, Terry Gillen. And I think -- I don't know whether I sent one to Deborah McCulloch or not. But we need to get an answer. We did what you asked us to do; now we need to hear back from you, from RDA and from OHCD.
Yeah, they're coming up now. 82 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
-- professionals have any questions for me or concerns for Rays of Hope.
Okay. You'll be here for a minute, and we'll ask them to respond first and let you know.
Thank you. All right. We're prepared for the Administration to come back. Ms. Gillen, we're prepared for you to come back. (Ms. Gillen comes forward.)
And we will begin our testimony. As we have said, we will deal with the information that you received from me, some two or three pages of issues that we were 83 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 concerned about. And while you do that, I did have a request from Councilman Rizzo's office, and I'll read it verbatim: "Properties disposed of by public agencies in Philadelphia for redevelopment often do not come with clear title because liens for old tax and water bills have not been extinguished by the City. "As a result, old tax liabilities remain with the property and are passed onto new owners, whether a CDC, a for-profit developer, or new homeowner, which can also prevent them from obtaining a ten-year tax abatement. "What can be done to alleviate this issue?" And I'm told by my staff that part of it is the relationship of the City agencies, one with the other, where the right hand should know what the left hand's doing; sometimes they don't. So I'll ask first for a response to 84 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Councilman Rizzo.
Well, without knowing the specifics, it would be hard for me to answer. But I think, Councilwoman, you're correct. The general answer has to do with the various City agencies sometimes having to work on the same parcel of land. And so, you've got Water, Law, Revenue, whatever the disposition agency is, whether that's Redevelopment Authority, Public Property. And so, we spend a lot of staff time trying to clear title on parcels of land. And it's one of the reasons that, as I spoke earlier about, the need for system reform. We've got to have system reform because the amount of time and resources that we use trying to clear title, parcel by parcel by parcel, is just not going to solve the problems in the long term, but that is essentially the theory behind it.
And 85 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 before I call on Councilman Jones, will you resolve -- get back to Councilwoman Miller and myself with regard to Sister Ali, Rays of Hope project. We all know comes here for years and is committed and passionate about she does. Or you may want to ask one of your staff members who are here about this project. Do you want to respond to her issue? MS. McCOLLOCH: My name is Deborah McCulloch. I'm the Director of Housing. I would just say we continue to work with Miss Ali, and she's -- the new developer that's been brought to the table, Onion Flats. We're working with them to try to move the project forward. I think there's still a funding issue that's not resolved yet that we need to work on resolving. And we have committed to the project. The project's listed in the Consolidated Plan that is coming back 86 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 before you later this week, and we're continuing to work through those issues. I don't know what specific paper Miss Ali was showing about what documentation is still needed by the project manager at the Redevelopment Authority, but we can follow up on that and get clear answers about what is still needed to move it forward. But I reiterate, we're still committed to the project.
Yes. It's my understanding that the federal funding will no longer be available after August. Will she lose that funding, that McKinney money. MS. McCOLLOCH: August is not the deadline that I understand for the McKinney funding, but the McKinney funding is through the Office of 87 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Supportive Housing, and I can follow up with my colleagues there to confirm what the date is. But I do not believe that it was an August deadline. So it's not my understanding from the last time when we met.
Okay. Well, someone actually told me that after August, she will lose that funding. So for us -- and we will confirm it too. MS. McCOLLOCH: Okay. I will follow up.
We will confirm it also. So for us, time is very important.
Will you get back to us on this -- MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
-- within a matter of few days as with as with the others? MS. McCOLLOCH: Yes.
Okay. 88 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 Thank you.
Thank you. Before I call on you, Councilman Jones, Councilman O'Neill?
Madam Chair, I have a meeting in my office. I would just like, in case I don't get back, to have my vote recorded as aye on Councilman Jones's amendment and bill, as amended, which I expect to be the case.
Thank you, Councilman. Certainly leave is granted, and thank you for your support on the legislation. (Addressing Ms. Gillen and Ms. McCulloch.) Oh no, we need you to stay here. We are at that point in our hearing. Councilman, now we're back to the issue that was raised before we deviated back to make sure Sister Ali was respected. Councilman Jones? 89 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379
Yes. I would like if you and Miss McCulloch could just, for purposes of general understanding, a lot of people that actually during the day tune into these proceedings and don't have the benefit of the knowledge base that some of us that do this for a living have but are nonetheless impacted by it. In general, a piece of property -- and I know it varies. But in general, from the time someone gets a good idea to do a project to the time it's conveyed to a developer for purposes of development, what's the average time?
Boy, I don't even know that -- I wouldn't even know how to give you an answer, Councilman. I know that at the Redevelopment Authority, if everyone is moving, it can move in -- it certainly moves in less than a year. I can't tell 90 6/7/10 - HOUSING COMMITTEE - RES. 100379 you for Public Property -- you'd have to ask them -- 'cause that's a different system, that's the Vacant Property Review Committee system.