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Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - February 5, 2025

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Feb 5, 20257h 1m

They started the process of repairing it.

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Obviously, COVID kind of kicked in and there was other delays due to their own personal health issues that kind of delayed a lot of their projects.

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Not typical for them, but there was definitely circumstances beyond their control.

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And so now we're, but they did pull the permit and secure the building so it wasn't no longer falling down and was no longer a danger to the neighboring properties.

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So, our proposal is to add a third-story overbuild with a green roof and patio above the second floor.

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So, let me just zoom in here so you can see dimensions.

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um so what you see here this is the front of the property line where this red red line is here

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right this is the front of where the front porch is this is the cornice line and this is where our

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building starts um let me actually get to a better drawing one second this is not this is not the one

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I wanted to show you because there's a really good example um here we go here's where you can

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see all the numbers. One second. Okay, so basically what we have here is that, I'm sorry, I'm trying

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to get to the correct elevation to show you. There's one that's really good and I'm trying

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to find it. Okay, so here we are. We have here that from the front of our cornice line to where

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this building actually starts, it's about 17 feet. It's not five feet as the refusal is suggestion.

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If you go from the front porch, it is 21 feet. And if you go from the front property line,

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because these are properties that have a little front yard here, right? We're 32 feet back.

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So why do we have a refusal for five foot one being the setback? That goes over to, let's pull

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up this plan over here. The building itself, like I said, is 17 feet back from the cornice line.

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But at five foot one inches back from the front of the cornice line, there's going to be a railing.

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And that railing separates what's going to be a green roof with some plantings and some stormwater control management systems.

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And this railing here is what counts when the plans examiner looked at it as the front setback.

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But like I said, actual setback from the front cornice line is a little short of 17 feet, 32 feet from the property line and 21 feet from the front of the porch.

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21 feet from the front of the porch. So I'm just going to pull up something that is on this block

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So I'm just going to pull up some.

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that's actually, we're also not proposing a pilot house with a roof deck above the third floor.

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We're just proposing to have this patio area over the existing second floor to provide some outdoor

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space for the upper unit. As opposed to what would be a buy-write project that exists at,

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But let me actually show you the picture first.

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One second here.

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And I think it's important we take some time to understand this because it's where a lot

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of the confusion with the neighbors is coming from as well.

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So this is 4211 Westminster, it's on the same block.

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This is not my client's property.

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But this is in fact a fully code compliant third story addition to a multifamily building.

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and here what they did is only have an eight foot setback then they have a pilot house and

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they have a roof deck above the third floor so these are the plans that I pulled that were

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approved for that project just so you can see here that again we have a refusal but are building

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17 feet back from the cornice line whereas this one is by right and only has an eight foot setback

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So practically, while I understand how that railing does create the border of what the setback is, we're actually way farther back than what's code compliant.

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And in doing so, we allow for not having a pilot house, not having that additional height and having rather just a patio area in the front of the property for the tenants to use.

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um let's see I did want to talk about let's see here uh what we're actually proposing

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um I know the neighbors um some of the main concerns of the neighbors was about the use

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itself um but like I said this is already a permitted two-family dwelling and that's our

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plan is to use it as a two-family dwelling there would be two bi-level units um each are going to

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be two bedrooms and two bathrooms. And I just want to focus on this top unit because that's

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where the third story addition is going to be. So, like I said, we have the permit for the use.

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And what happens is, sorry, I'm in the wrong, there we go. This is the right plans.

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um when you have a permit for a pre-existing use you're allowed to expand the floor area of that

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pre-existing use by up to 10 without a variance um what we are proposing is about a 15 percent

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increase um and that equals about an additional 147 square feet of space uh and what this allows

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that extra 147 square feet of space allows is really to have this bathroom on the third floor

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that goes with this second bedroom um and and why this bathroom is important um first of all i think

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we um all of us who may have lived in a house with one bathroom at any given time know that

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a second bathroom is always a good thing to have when you're living with more than one person

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um so but really it creates a better living space for this unit um that will attract hopefully

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longer term tenants and people who um you know maybe more families that sort of thing which was

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a concern of the neighborhoods was having longer term residents um so by having a nicer space with

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nicer amenities like a second bathroom and a bathroom for each bedroom um it creates those

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people that want to stay in that kind of unit and maybe grow their family and that sort

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of thing.

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The other structural issue is that by having this additional square footage, it allows

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for the addition to be lined up with the rear of the existing property.

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Let me just go to the rendering to show you.

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One second here.

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Let's go to the side-by-side.

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Okay, so we can't move necessarily this frontage back because of where the existing stairwells are.

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It makes sense to continue the existing staircase up, and I can have Angela and Mike explain that a little bit more.

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So what this, if we cut off that 174 square feet, we can't bring that structure all the way to the back of the building.

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And that creates another roof line that can create, you know, maintenance issues, another place for water to be accessed, all that sort of stuff.

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And it also makes it so that that additional bathroom can't be there.

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And it also makes it so that that additional bathroom can't be there.

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There's just no way they've tried to figure out if they could put a bathroom somehow in there and it just doesn't work out.

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The size of the bathroom would probably, it wouldn't be functional at that point to have a functional bedroom size and a functional bathroom size without that additional 147 square feet.

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So that's kind of the gist. You can see here a really good example of what this is the

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by-right project that would go forward if the variances were not granted. This is what

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it would look like if the variances were granted. And like I said, in comparison to what a by-right

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addition would look like, bringing this up by about nine feet and then putting a pilot

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house over it with a roof deck over this third story, I would argue that this has a much

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less impact from the street and for any of the neighbors.

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I also will say we're at a total height of 35 feet, where 38 is allowed in this neighborhood.

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And the new construction builds that are happening on 43rd Street that are kind of going to enclose

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this area are at that 38 feet.

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You can see from the renderings, the massings of the buildings around it.

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um so we did meet with uh let me just go first and explain a little bit about um

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Angela and Michael they do have um they do own many rental properties uh in Philadelphia and

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the surrounding area um they've been a long-term landlords um what I can say is that uh they have

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many long-term tenants and that is always their goal they have at least two tenants who have been

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there for over 15 years in their units, and several other who have been in their properties

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for over 10 years.

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And that's their goal.

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It's not to make a quick buck, it is to actually provide quality housing for long-term tenants.

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I've seen some of their other projects as well, and the goal is always to have finishes

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that are nice and accommodating for their residents, but not luxury apartments.

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Just nice, renovated, well-maintained, well-constructed units.

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So Angela went out, and I'll have her testify to this as well, but she did go out to the community, knock door-to-door, talk to people.

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Well, Jennifer, I don't want her to testify that, too, if you're going to say it.

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I mean, we've got to move on here.

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Let me talk about the RCO meeting then instead.

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So we had an RCO meeting on the 18th of December.

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um there were 13 people in attendance uh three in support six opposed and there was only one

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person who attended within the notification area um there were four main areas of opposition

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and i think a lot of this opposition came from people who did not understand the project they

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came in late they didn't hear the presentation um so the first was just an uh an opposition to

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any rental properties, which is not relevant to our zoning variances. The second was that they

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didn't want multifamily housing, which again, we have the permit for that. And the only difference

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here is really whether or not that second unit is going to have a bathroom or not. It's not having

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a second. Yeah, I think we've talked about that bathroom. I mean, all right. So and then there

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were people who were just opposed to the green roof which is not at issue here and then um people

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who did not want a railing at the front of the building which again is required by code um since

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the rco meeting i may have angela talk about this but just overall there's been definitely some

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misinformation spreading around the neighborhood about um them being drug dealers about putting

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drug dealers in this property um about people throwing beer bottles around we're not quite

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sure where any of this happened um but again this is not in any of our proposal this is market rate

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housing hopefully for long-term tenants so with that i would ask that angela raise her hand and

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I dropped my testimony and we'll talk a little bit more.

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Angela?

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Angela?

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Do we hear?

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It might be Michael.

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Last name is Bucci, B-U-C-C-I.

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Angela or Michael?

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Michael Bucci.

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Great.

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Okay.

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hello okay hi hi could you please

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i could uh who's going to testify

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angela okay oh angela please state your name and spell for the stenographer

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yes it's um angela de prima hyphen buchi uh

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Yes, it's Angela DiPrima hyphen Bucci, A-N-G-E-L-A, DiPrima, D-I-P-R-I-M-A hyphen B-U-C-C-I.

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Eight.

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Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?

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I do.

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Please proceed, counsel.

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All right.

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I'm just going to have you adopt my testimony first, and then we'll get a little more testimony from you.

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Angela, did you hear my testimony here today and believe it to be truthful and accurate?

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Yes. And would you adopt it as your own? Yes. All right. The first thing I wanted to ask you,

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have you done outreach to your near neighbors, both since purchasing the property and since

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applying for this variance? Yes. Can you describe a little bit about what you did? And did you at

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any point go to door to door asking for support for this project? I did. I went door to door.

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both my husband Michael and I both went door to door and talked about the project and asked for

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support yes and when you did that did you explain the variances you were asking for and what

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variances were needed before asking for that support yes I did we both did we had plans with

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us we had photographs with us we had the refusal with us as well and so yes so you feel like you

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inform the neighbors about what your project was before asking for their support?

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Yes, I did. Okay, great. So I just wanted to talk about that. And then I guess let's just talk a

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little bit about the plan. If the variances were not granted, can you explain how the project would

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change and how that might, you know, would that result in a better or worse project if you didn't

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have the variances granted. So it's our belief that it would be a worse project without the

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variances. And that's why we decided to go through this for, you know, really a small

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square footage that we were denied. We believe that a second bathroom is a great amenity to

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any household. Jennifer, could you change that? Because we've talked about this bathroom

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over and over. So, I mean, I know it's your client, but you really did a lot of this testimony

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yourself, and she's adopted that testimony, right? Why don't we move on from the bathroom?

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Counselor, if we can, can we explain what is the hardship? We're still trying to figure out what's

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the hardship on this project to grant these variances sure so i think the the the first

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for the variance for the setback it's just that it's way farther back um it's just a quirk of the

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code um that were hold on sorry one second let me get to the plans to really show you um

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so for the front setback like i said um our hardship is that we're trying to create

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a nice upper patio here, and by having a second railing to create the green roof space,

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it triggers a variance that- hold on, I'm trying to get to the right- one second, let me

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zoom in on this while I'm explaining this. Really, we keep- in order to create this green roof space,

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it creates a second railing here which is triggering the setback of five foot one

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where in reality our our actual building starts almost 17 feet back so i think it's just the

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hardship is a quirk of the code in this where we're really well beyond compliance in the setback

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um it's just that there's a railing to separate the green roof area from the patio area

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And then in terms of the hardship for the additional square footage, first of all, it's a fairly de minimis ask. It's 147 square feet above what would be allowed by Wright.

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um and we're not changing the use we're really just trying to um have a project that's more

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functional and in the space that's allowed for that expansion we can't have a functional

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bedroom and bathroom um and I think that you know in the other thing maybe Angela can explain it

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better about why it's important to have that addition line up with the back of the property

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and why it can't just be smaller and lined up with the back of the property. Angela, can you

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explain the benefits of having it in line with the back of the property?

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Yes, it would be adhesive construction. So basically, not having it line up with the back

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creates this roof, a small roof that now has to be dealt with and remedied.

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um that now has to be dealt with and remedied if if there's ever a leak and extra drains extra

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drain exactly um and there's really no you know you'd have to get a ladder to get up there so it

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just makes it more cumbersome um for really you know not that much more construction to just build

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it to the face where it's just one vertical plane great and and could you move the smaller structure

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all the way to the back without significant changes to like the existing building there's

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no way no because the stairs already been rebuilt per code uh which is under a difference it's

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existing and uh so no we will not and could not do that okay okay so so jennifer let's move on

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please great that's so that's um i guess that concludes my case in chief um i believe there's

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some neighbors here um i haven't i just want to note i haven't seen the letter of opposition from

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the neighbors nor have i seen their petition okay thank you um questions from the board

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yeah i just have a couple questions well i don't i don't know that i agree with the argument that

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the reason for the additional space is because you need to do another bathroom you've got a

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hole in that floor so you took that space up with the hole in the floor that you put

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other question that i have is there are comment that i have is there is there basement unit

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is that is the first floor bi-level to the basement i don't believe it is a bi-level unit

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correct however these are permitted units already and we're only here to talk about the additional

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Yeah, I just, I just, you kind of, you showed this third and second floor, third and second floor, I didn't see how the basement was laid out. Okay. And I just wanted to know where the basement unit.

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May I respond to that with the hole in the floor question? So that's not floor space. It's not counted floor space. So if.

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No, what I'm saying to you is that the reason it's a design decision that you made to have a hole in the floor, which is very nice, quite frankly.

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But that's why you need it. That's why you want to have the extra space for the for the bathroom, because if you didn't have the hole in the floor, you could have that space without it.

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The hole also accommodates the stairwell.

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Yeah, the hole the hole accommodates the stairwell that we need.

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And then and that's not counted as it's not counted as floor area.

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so it's not like you're asking for additional floor area and your your general purpose of

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doing that was to add a bathroom but you put a hole in the floor that took away floor area

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