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Minutes

Committee Hearing, May 12, 2004

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsMay 12, 2004

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Councilman Nutter

It's absolutely different. It's not consistent with anything in this document. I mean, we 595 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget could -- You know, look: You know me. We could sit here all night. I can read you page after page after page of what the Tax Reform Commission said and what it suggested be done, which is completely now different than anything you're talking about. You're not going to find: Do it a year for ten years in a row anywhere in this document.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, now, wait a second.

Councilman Nutter

You're not going to find: Do it if you think that everything will be okay. You'll find on a page that says, we acknowledge that there will be a fiscal impact.

Mr. Schwartz

Yeah, but what --

Councilman Nutter

But do it anyway.

Mr. Schwartz

Yeah. Well, what impact? And at what level? And Councilman, if you think that I 596 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget am the only one who is --

Councilman Nutter

Well, you know...

Mr. Schwartz

-- on this Commission who is sharing the perspective that I've brought here --

Councilman Nutter

If you had been able to do the other side of the job, which you weren't allowed to do, then, you know, maybe we wouldn't be having some of this discussion. But you know, as usual, as they say, there's still two things that you never want to watch being made, legislation and sausage.

Mr. Schwart

There's still two things what?

Councilman Nutter

, local implementation. Based upon review of economic literature and econometric research, the Commission believes that the recommended package of tax reform will generate significant economic growth. Of course, we can't talk about that. 597 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget That's not in the report. In the short term, while the economy adjusts, the Commission recognizes that its tax reform recommendations could have a fiscal impact. Do you remember that?

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

And it's a question of the level at which it was going to operate and what the real situation was.

Councilman Nutter

I understand. Well, look: It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. We can either make some serious changes or we can just continue to manage the decline. I mean, why don't we turn the City into a big hospice? We'll make everybody comfortable, and we'll die gracefully, but we'll do it with dignity.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, Councilman, I think that if we want to get this agenda through, which I did spend a lot of time with and agree -- 598 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Councilman Nutter

I know you did.

Mr. Schwartz

-- and helped shepherd it through --

Councilman Nutter

I liked it when you were --

Mr. Schwartz

-- and I think that we need to have --

Councilman Nutter

I liked it when you were on message.

Mr. Schwartz

-- a simultaneous, as I said before --

Councilman Nutter

I liked it when you were on message and on the same agenda. That's what I really liked.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I understand. I'm more complicated than one issue; that's true.

Councilman Nutter

Well... We don't want to go there. I'm sorry. I cut you off. Why don't you finish your statement.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm just merely saying that, in fact, the challenge really is to deal with the cost of crime. And now 599 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget we've discovered two other challenges that have become more serious: Namely, the medical benefits and the pension issue.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

Now, I don't know how much we can do about either of those.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

But I think we can do a lot, perhaps, about the cost of crime.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Schwartz

And I plan to spend quite a lot of my own time --

Councilman Nutter

So as soon as we figure that out, we'll be in a much better position to do the other stuff. Is that where we are?

Mr. Schwartz

I'm not waiting the ten years to figure that out.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Schwartz

I think that we need to have a measurable impact and significant on that one next year.

Councilman Nutter

Right. What's the -- 600 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

And I think, as I said --

Councilman Nutter

Well, let me ask you a question.

Councilman Nutter

What's the plan for that?

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I have my own plan, to take -- You know, I've already started working at it. If you want me to go into it more carefully, I'll be happy to do that.

Councilman Nutter

No, not at the moment, but I appreciate you having a plan or some thoughts about it. Are they actually going to get implemented? I mean, are you making stuff happen within the government?

Mr. Schwartz

I'm making --

Councilman Nutter

Are you taking that job over in the Police Department?

Mr. Schwartz

I haven't got a complete... I started through the prisons. And have I talked to the Prison 601 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget Commissioner? Yeah. Several times.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. All right.

Mr. Schwartz

Absolutely. See, I have my own idea of what to do here, and I'm doing it.

Councilman Nutter

No. I got it. I mean, like setting up a shadow government?

Mr. Schwartz

No. I'm an advocate.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Well, I'm sure this debate and this discussion will continue.

Mr. Schwartz

(Laughing.)

Councilman Nutter

And I appreciate you coming back. I appreciate your views. And I'll see you around.

Mr. Schwartz

And whatever happens with the bills -- I don't know what's going to happen -- I will say to you --

Councilman Nutter

What do you think should happen with the bills?

Mr. Schwartz

I think we should 602 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget get -- Well, I'll tell you: I think we should get as much out of the first year -- I haven't looked at every single bill to see which ones of -- of the... The Administration has agreed to what? Four? Brett.

Mr. Mandel

I'm still recovering from the "I haven't looked at every one of the bills."

Mr. Schwartz

Oh, I have looked at them, but I have looked at... I have looked at the bills. The question is where we stand now, in terms of which ones the Administration is not supporting that I might support, other than the two that we mentioned.

Councilman Nutter

Yeah. I mean --

Mr. Schwartz

And one of them has cost implications.

Councilman Nutter

Let's see what I've got here.

Councilman Nutter

We've got land value. 603 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget

Mr. Schwartz

That's pretty --

Councilman Nutter

Repeal of the non-utilization tax which I think is not going anywhere because --

Mr. Schwartz

Well, I'm the one who introduced the -- got Councilman Anderson to introduce that bill originally.

Councilman Nutter

Yeah. Well --

Mr. Schwartz

If they would ever enforce it, I would be very happy.

Councilman Nutter

Yeah. Well, just -- You know, no one seemed to bother to do the research to find out that Councilman Clarke had actually amended it a couple years ago.

Mr. Schwartz

I'm aware of that now.

Councilman Nutter

And I think he's not too thrilled about having his bill 21 repealed.

Mr. Schwartz

We've talked.

Councilman Nutter

We're going to close. The Administration supports a transfer tax loophole closure. You know, 604 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget that's a tough one. And time limit on, I think, how far you can go back and collect money from people or appeal...

Mr. Schwartz

Support that. To the Administration --

Councilman Nutter

And they support, which are not a part of the Tax Reform Commission, increase in the parking tax, and pushing the wage tax cut back from July to January.

Mr. Schwartz

And my feeling there is --

Councilman Nutter

That's a winner.

Mr. Schwartz

Well, my feeling there is that the wage tax reduction we called for the level. It's not much. Should be implemented. And that, again, I think that the...

Councilman Nutter

It's not going to be implemented in July.

Mr. Schwartz

No, no. I'm saying that there's a schedule that we set forth for wage tax reductions. And I think that schedule should be the basis for the wage 605 Whole - 5/12/04 - Operating Budget tax --

Councilman Nutter

Well, I understand that; but, you know, that's caught up in your ten-year plan bill, Bill 6 9.

Mr. Schwartz

We're talking about the amount of money.

Councilman Nutter

Right. I know.

Mr. Schwartz

And that's a modest amount.

Councilman Nutter

Yeah. Okay. All righty.

Mr. Schwartz

Thanks. Anyone else?

Councilman Nutter

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. COUNCILAN NUTTER: It's been a pleasure.

Mr. Schwartz

All right. Thank you. Have a good evening.

Council President Verna

Thank you. This committee will stand in recess until Monday, May the 17th, at 9:30. Thank you. (Hearing concluded at 7:45 p.m.) 606 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings and ence are contained fully and accurately in the ographic notes taken by me upon the public ing of The Philadelphia City Council, taken on 12, 2004, and that this is a true and correct script of same. _____________________________ LISA C. BRADLEY _____________________________ DAVID A. DEIK, RPR and Commissioner of Deeds (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)