You do not know how you intend to contract those dollars?
I understood the question as the reasonable amount of the number of small-dollar contracts. Is it reasonable to --
The first issue is if you know how you're going to allocate these dollars in terms of contracting. You already know what size contracts they're going to be in most areas.
Councilmember, 51 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 I'm not sure that we know that. I can query all of the grant managers to see the size of the grants that they anticipate, but sitting here before you, I also don't have an answer to that question.
Because even if there are smaller contracts in terms of subcontracts, an EOP is generally done with a prime contractor in some cases, who would they then, in turn, reallocate the money and distribute the money. Then the EOP is done with the prime contractor but applies to subcontracts. And that's one EOP.
So to be honest with you, I simply don't believe that at the end of the day that there are going to be so many smaller contracts that there's a need for a threshold. Until you can prove there's a need for a threshold, there's no need for us to accept it as being true. 52 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 Not to mention that Council already unanimously decided today that there should be no threshold, and that the stimulus dollars are that important to us in terms of economic inclusion. So that's something that, you know, I think needs to be roved. But separate from the economic opportunity amendment that Councilman Clarke did, you stated that this would already go for the normal process. So let's discuss what the normal process is. Dr. Anderson, in response to questioning about how we move forward, I talked about how, from 1998 to 2003, businesses owned by minorities received about 2.3 percent of City contract dollars. As of our annual disparity studies of 2006, 2007, that number is up to about 12 percent in terms of contract dollars committed to businesses owned by minorities. I asked Dr. Anderson, how do we move forward and what he would 53 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 recommended in terms of OEO and in terms of strategic plan. His simple statement was that in the context of disparity studies and in terms of what is actual economic parity, that utilization should match availability. But in other testimony by the Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware Minority Supplier Development Council, there was discussion of what availability really is and what it isn't. In the testimony by Darlene Jenkins, she said they have 16,000 businesses that are certified under their organization. What is the amount of businesses certified by the Office of Economic Opportunity?
Okay. So less than 10 percent, about two-thirds of -- or three-quarters of 10 percent of those businesses are certified by her organization. She also said in her testimony 54 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 that we must push for the acceptance of the National Minority Supplier Development Council certification by the City of Philadelphia for MBEs that want to be certified, and essentially said that that's the way that we reach what we need in terms of the pool of certification.
I happen to know from our discussion and meetings that the Office of Economic Opportunity, through its new strategic plan, is planning on opening up the pool of certified businesses by accepting our certifications.
In other words, are we going to be using the same 1200 firms? 55 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40
Will we reach a figure, a pool of businesses that is more appropriate, that actually deals with the actual availability of businesses that should be able to participate?
I think the answer is -- I know the answer is yes. Now, the question is how fast we are able to move in that regard.
And so, what we're planning on doing is to look at organizations like MSDC, Minority Supplier Development Council, and look at their process and looking at their certification as becoming something -- as becoming the City certification (indiscernible).
The question is: Are you going to broaden the certification? 56 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40
Immediately. I don't mean tomorrow, but in time to have a greater pool of people of disadvantaged businesses and workers that can take advantage of stimulus dollars? And at what point can you commit to us that we won't be dealing with the same 1200 certified firms, only about 2 or 300 of which get business?
At what point will we have a more significant pool of certified firms that are deemed to be available? 'cause there are actually more available firms with the capacity and that are certified, and that's where and why we should be meeting in terms of greater participation.
I agree. And as we've had some conversations about this, around the availability and the utilization. If we increase the availability of firms, then the 57 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 utilization, by theory, should go up, so that's one of our strong strategic objectives that we're working on. We are moving in that direction now to establish the protocols within the Office of Economic Opportunity as they're looking at current certifications to go ahead and consider what this might be. So if they -- "they," meaning a small business or a business comes into us that has a certification for somebody, that we should look at that as that type of reciprocal nature now so that we could begin that process. We would be full force in that January 1st.
I'm going to be real clear. There are only two things I need, there are only two things I want to evaluate, whether stimulus dollars had economic inclusion or not and whether they are prepared to have economic inclusion or not. One, what's the thresholds for 58 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 EOPs? And we need a real answer for that. And two, what's the pool of certified firms?
And we need a real answer to that immediately, or else you are talking the talk but not walking the walk. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Agostini, I just have one quick question, you might say. It's more or less alluding to what Councilman Goode has been questioning you about. And that is: As far as I know, the stimulus package, when it was passed, these bills were passed in Washington, D.C., I think the primary objective was to create new jobs. 59 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 And what I would like to know, is, of this $52 million, how many new jobs? Do you have a ballpark figure on how many new jobs would be created?
Councilman, there was an early ballpark figure that was put together, but I have been very reluctant to take those numbers without rigorously looking at them personally. The number that was calculated preceded my taking this role as the recovery officer. And as you may have read recently, there have been rather significant revisions to all of the job numbers from the federal level on the orders of 10 or 11 percent. So I am looking at the number for jobs created carefully and will go through that again and am happy to present that to you. But at the moment, I'm not willing to take at face value the job calculations that were a part of the applications themselves. I just haven't 60 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 felt -- I haven't had the opportunity to personally vet them myself.
Yeah, that's -- what I'm interested in is these contractors; would they be hiring new people? would they be creating new jobs?
For many of these, that is the expectation, that either as a subrecipient or a vendor to the City, that they will indeed be spending dollars in a manner that will create jobs, new jobs.
At the moment, I don't, Councilman. And I apologize for that, but I' prefer not to give you a number than one that's erroneous.
Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. 61 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40
Councilman O'Neill, do you want to be recognized?
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon again, sir. I just wanted to ask a couple of questions on a couple of the hearings we had earlier. I'd like to ask you a couple of west about the Office of Housing and Community Development stimulus dollars -- I'm sorry, American Recovery Dollars; that's the new name we're supposed to call it. I just want to get some clarity on the split. Earlier, we had a hearing and a subsequent discussion about the split, and in part of that, we came to a consensus on a certain amount going to housing, and I see we have it listed here 62 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 as approximately 5.7. And I know that a comparable amount was being, we were told, would be spent for gap financing for projects, some that were in the pipeline. Is that -- I just want to make sure that I understand. Is that the 4-3 that's listed here? It's Creative Industry Workforce Grants?
Or Liveable Communities Commercial development? What are you --
I believe, Councilman, it would best if I deferred to Debra McCullough. I do believe that some of the grants you're discussing are also grants that are being managed not only by Ms. McCullough but also by Andy Racklin (sp?). And so I would ask that both of them come up here --
Yeah, I just want make sure, 'cause we agreed on 63 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 a number, but I don't know if the terminology changed or if it's for the same purpose. But at the time, it was supposed to provide gap financing for projects that were shovel-ready. And I just want to make sure I understand where that money is in this package. (Witnesses come forward.) MS. McCULLOUGH: Good afternoon. I'm Debra McCullough, Director of Housing. The figures that appear in the testimony are the same ones that were in the consolidated plan amendment that we presented to City Council last spring, held a hearing on, and so forth. So the 5.75 million for housing gap financing, that's essentially the construction subsidies that we used for our various housing developments.
Right. MS. McCULLOUGH: Those funds are part of the request for proposals that was issued this fall and for which 64 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 we received 49 proposals.
That along with trust fund dollars. MS. McCULLOUGH: Yes.
Okay. MS. McCULLOUGH: We issued an RFP that included this money Housing Trust Fund earnings, if you will, regular Community Development Block Grant Funds, and home funds. So this becomes a part of that pot of funds that are available.
We're really asking about the agreed-upon amount for commercial-related activity. MS. McCULLOUGH: And these numbers are the same.
I mean, where -- is this for the 4-3, is that it? MS. McCULLOUGH: Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't understanding the question. Yes, yes. The 4.396629 is the piece -- is the --
So that's 65 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 -- is it called - MS. McCULLOUGH: It's the split that's going to Commerce for Commercial Corridor and Livable Communities.
So it's called Livable Communities, Commercial Development Fund now? MS. McCULLOUGH: Correct.
Okay. 'Cause they didn't have that name before, and that's why -- MS. McCULLOUGH: Right.
'Cause it's called gap financing -- MS. McCULLOUGH: Right.
So we got to -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
But it's the same -- MS. McCULLOUGH: There's been no change in the budget than what was proposed and agreed upon and passed by 66 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 this Council last spring.
But will it be used for the same purposes? because there was a list of potential projects that could be funded from that money. And my question is, I guess, if we change the name, does that mean we change the scope of how that money could be spent? Or will it still be spent on projects that are shovel-ready or close to being shovel-ready? That's really what I'm trying to get at.
Councilman, my name is a Andy Rocklin (sp?). I'm Deputy Chief of Staff for Planning and Economic Development. And the answer to your question is yes.
(Indiscernible.) 67 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40
No, it was Germantown -- well, Progress Plaza. So that's the type of project that we will use this for --
Okay. I just wanted to a little clarity on that. Since, I have you up here Miss McCullough -- MS. McCULLOUGH: Yes, Councilman?
-- I've been wondering about this. And I'm sorry, it's a little -- it's kind of totally unrelated to this, but the RFP was $10 million? MS. McCULLOUGH: Approximately, yes.
Okay, approximately. And it included block grant dollars from -- 68 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 MS. McCULLOUGH: The current fiscal year.
And the trust fund was how much? MS. McCULLOUGH: Um...
I guess my question is -- let me cut to the chase. MS. McCULLOUGH: Uh-huh.
I was a little concerned about the amount 'cause it was only $10 million, as I'm sure anybody who was interested in getting that money, because we had this obvious increase from the stimulus dollars and the trust fund, it went down a little bit. But I also understood that the block grant dollars had increased from the federal government. Is there a reason why we only did 10 million? 69 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 MS. McCULLOUGH: Well, because we have developments that are in the pipeline --
That were funded. MS. McCULLOUGH: -- that we're funding with available resources.
Okay. MS. McCULLOUGH: So there's always -- as you know, we always have developments in the pipeline from -- that may have come in through a previous RFP that are now being funded --
Okay. I guess -- you know, when I heard stimulus dollars, I thought it would be like a bonanza. I got ya. Thank you for that. And I have a question about the Managing Director's testimony. (Witnesses come forward.)
It talks 70 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 about the remaining -- I'm sorry. The total request is for $1,065,000. And a small portion is spent for administration of the Byrne Grant, but then there's a $953,000 for the Mayor's Office of Sustainability for various projects funded through the Efficiency and Conservation Block Grant. What exactly does that mean? MANAGING DIRECTOR BARNETT: What was that first --
What does that mean? MANAGING DIRECTOR BARNETT: I'm Camille Barnett.
I mean, what specifically -- MANAGING DIRECTOR BARNETT: I'm the Managing Director --
What are we doing with it? MANAGING DIRECTOR BARNETT: Tha t has to do with -- specifically the energy efficiency portion of this; is 71 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 that what you're asking about?
Yeah, the 900,000. MANAGING DIRECTOR BARNETT: Well, there are various projects in the Mayor's Office of Sustainability that this goes to, specifically those that are funded through the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Block Grant, so there's supervisory. There's 175,200, which is in Class 100, which is for salary; 483,000 in Class 200; and 295,700 in Class 300. Do you have some additional things that you'd like to add? He wants to know what this is for. And so, it's primarily implementation of our Green Works Plan as funded by --
So this is a part of the Commerce-related activity and the stimulus dollars a part of Green Works? MANAGING DIRECTOR BARNETT: 72 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 It's --
You're talking about a portion of it for, I'm assuming, staffing, because of the class. Is it -- does it supplant, or do you hire new people? I guess, what exactly is the money going go for --
I'm Katherine Gajewski from the Office of Sustainability. Under our EECBG banner, the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Block Grant Program, we're going to receive a total of $14.1 million in formula funds. 73 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 We are advancing separates programs between that $14 million. So the portion that Dr. Barnett was referencing, three of these programs, the funding is going directly to the Office of Sustainability. A number of the other programs are being administered by the Streets Department and the Commerce Department. The funding that she referenced is going to my office directly.
And so, my follow-up question is: What are the programs?
Or is that in the other testimony, in those departments that you mentioned?
So the funding that's coming to my office directly is going to fund primarily three different programs. One is a million dollars for 74 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 the Municipal Building energy-efficiency and renewable retrofits, which are going to be capital improvements made to City buildings to bring our energy costs down. The second program is to target energy budget support and training. There will be one new position created as a part of that program to oversee the transition to target energy budgets for the departments; again, part of the energy-efficiency and cost-reduction programs. The other program is the Green Works Philadelphia support; there's going to be one new position created there as well, which is what's reflected in the Class 100.
As Councilman Kelly was saying earlier, and I'm hearing that we're creating 75 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 approximately three jobs that will essentially oversee other activities in other departments or other funding sources. And I guess, will these be temporary jobs or will they be full-time jobs? Will the City be required to pay for the next fiscal year of that individual?
Because the funding is only for 12 to months as 17 part of this grant, we'll have to bring 18 these people on in a contracting capacity and then reassess --
Okay, I got it. 76 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40
Okay. MANAGING DIRECTOR BARNETT: It's more than just the supervision. When we're making capital improvements to City facilities, those will involve contracts to make those capital improvements --
And that's in the -- MANAGING DIRECTOR BARNETT: -- so they will be jobs in the private sector.
And that's in the R14 million part? MANAGING DIRECTOR BARNETT: Yeah.
Okay, thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Agostini, we talked to you earlier this afternoon regarding giving 77 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 us a list or a list to the chair of this committee regarding where the funding is coming from, what federal funding. And I just want to remind you that we're still looking for that information.
We can provide that in a summary form, as has been requested, Councilwoman. We did provide to Council a list of every one of the grants, with their funding source as well as their department. So what I will do is provide you with a summary that has been requested along with that list, but that list has been provided to Council previously.
Okay. And I think most of us here in City Council really want to see Philadelphians get back to work. We just don't want this money coming in and in a year from now look, we're looking back and nobody's really gained anything in terms of employment. 78 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 So I have some questions regarding the programs that's going to be delivered by the Mayor's Office of Community Services, the employment training program. Is anyone here from that department?
Hi there. I'm Jenny Serendera (sp?) from the Mayor's Office.
Hi. I'm Mary Mariner. I'm interim executive director of the Mayor's Office of Community Services.
Okay, great. Thank you. In your testimony, do you have a copy of it? What was actually submitted in this booklet?
Great. At the bottom -- and I know that one of MOCS's goals or MOCS's main purposes is to move people to self-sufficiency. So down at the bottom, at the last paragraph, you're talking jobs for a sustainable neighborhood. Can you tell me what a sustainable neighborhood is?
Oh, sure, absolutely. So one of the job programs that we've put together with the recovery dollars coming through MOCS builds off of the Community Land Care Program that is currently run through the Department of Commerce with CDBG funds. So that program -- it's called the Community Land Care Program. Its neighborhood cleaning and greening of vacant lots. So what we did was, we take folks who have these jobs, they're part-time and they're seasonal jobs. And we said, you know, here's a group of people who've shown every day, they can 80 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 show up to work, they've got some job skills. How can we get them to the next level of employment -- full-time, higher-wage positions. So we are taking the CSGB funds, we're using it to support them in terms of case management and literacy and job-training. And then the idea is that you move them into on-the-job training in more regular employment. And then it's a full-time employment off of the commercial corridors or out of the Community Land Care Program. And then you backfill all of those positions with folks from the neighborhoods who kind of can, with some barriers to employment, start working in those lower -- sort of lower job- readiness positions, if that makes sense. So it's a bit of an assembly line.
Okay. So that sounds pretty good, that you're going to take folks that are currently 81 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 doing the land care, move them up; and that way, the contractor -- the person that has the contract now can bring more people in, and you're sort of looking at it as a job-readiness program.
Because the people of 2009 should be moved to this sustainable job-training, et cetera and hopefully, then, in 2010, have a higher job when they complete the program.
But then the contractor can go get new folk, correct?
So it's like a little (indiscernible). 82 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40
Okay, good. And as a part of that program, you also have GED?
So if we want to refer someone to that person, then we need to call MOCS?
So the folks who we're recruiting for that program are already doing the commercial corridor work. We hope that if the program is successful, we can keep it going, and then we'll need people to backfill those positions on the corridors. So what we'll do is make all of this information available through MOCS 83 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 and any of the other job-training programs available through MOCS and through the career link centers that the Workforce Investment Board runs. But absolutely, if you want to pass along any information, we'll make sure that folks have the relevant info to find out about these programs.
Well, any of these programs, Council offices need the information.
Because we have constituents that are calling us all the time for employment leads and all kinds of service-oriented services.
Now, the job readiness and placement for ex-offenders, so this is just career counseling and wraparound services; job readiness, not training.
It's actually job-training and placement, placement of 84 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 260 ex-offenders into full-time employment. And they will receive retention services for 120 days after placement.
Have you guys been doing this in the past? I mean, I know this is -
You know, we can get back to you with their rate in terms of retention. I know they have a much lower recidivism rate for their clients than you see throughout the City, but we'd have to get back to you on the exact rate.
Okay. And with then, the construction trade, you're going to hopefully train 160 people to get into an apprenticeship 85 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 program.
That is actually the PHA program. That's been very successful, and we will have 160 people who will go through that program and take the apprenticeship test or get jobs within the construction trades.
Is there a timeline on these? I mean, are you looking to do this in what?
So our biggest challenge has been, in part, that the funds are still currently at the state level. So as soon as those dollars come to the City and as soon as we get through the process here in terms of the appropriation process, we'd like to get those programs moving as quickly as possible. We are going to be beginning recruitment efforts very shortly. And then, really, it depends a little bit on just the contracting process and getting those dollars through the state. 86 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 But as soon as any of these are ready to launch, there will be information available.
I just want to go back for a second to the ex-offenders. Are they -- that's different from what the Prisons is saying it's going to do with green jobs for ex-offenders?
No? Okay. Well, what we would like to know is just how many people are they targeting? Green jobs for ex-offenders, $700,000. Okay.
Councilmember, I 87 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 don't believe anyone is here from Prisons.
Is anyone here from the Mayor's Office of... the Mayor's Office -- the Mayor's Commission on Aging, the Senior Center, Senior Services? (Witness comes forward.)
Good afternoon. I'm Debbie Merlin. And I'm the Assistant Deputy Mayor at the Mayor's Commission on Aging.
Okay. Good afternoon. Can you tell me a little bit about this job-training program for low-income seniors that you propose?
This is the Senior Community Service Employment Program that the Mayor's Commission on Aging has had a contract from the Philadelphia 88 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 Corporation for Aging, where the money comes from the federal Department of Labor for over 35 years. The stimulus money is in addition to the money and programs that we already have in place. It allows us the opportunity to enroll additional people in the work-training program, where we place low-income seniors that have many barriers to employment at different not-for-profit 501(c)(3)s and government agencies throughout the City for work training, with the eventual goal of helping the people find employment.
So the work training then, if I decided to take a senior into an -- or if an agency decided to take a senior, that would be called work-training, and then would they move -- but would they get paid for that?
The senior gets paid $7.25 an hour, minimum wage, for 20 89 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 hours of training a week. And the type of training is anything from clerical aide to receptionist aide, maintenance aide, nutritionist aide, and some other types of training opportunities throughout the different host-agency sites.
Right now, with the stimulus money, they are able to stay in that area until the end of June of 2010. However, what our goal is at that point is either, hopefully, some of the people will have found jobs or will be able to transition them, if appropriate, into our regular senior community service employment, using our regular funds for that. That is our eventual goal.
The age minimum is 90 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 55 years old; you have to be at least 55. And we have people of every age after that, up to approximately 85, 86 years old.
Okay, all right. Thank you. And how many people -- this additional funding, how many people do you serve and how many do you anticipate serving with the additional funding?
Our average goal is people. However, right now, we 14 have in the program, as of today, 24 15 active participants that are work- 16 training throughout the City. The total 17 that we've served from June until today 18 is 33. 19
Okay, all 20 right. Thank you. Thank you very much. 21
Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.) 91 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40
Thank you. Is there anyone else here to testify? (No response.)
All right, thank you. That ends our public hearing. We'll go into our public meeting. The Chair recognizes... The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke for Bill No. 090737.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I make a motion that Bill No. 17 090737 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a request for a rules suspension to allow for reading at the next session of Council. (Motion duly seconded.)
All those in favor? Opposed? (None opposed.) 92 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 Therefore, Bill No. 090737 will be voted out of this committee with a favorable recommendation and a suspension of the rules so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke for Bill No. 090739.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill No. 090739 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and with a rules suspension to allow for reading at the next session of council. (Motion duly seconded.)
All those in favor? Opposed? (None opposed.) Therefore, Bill No. 090739 will be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation, with a suspension of the rules, so as to permit first reading at our next session of 93 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 Council. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke for Bill No. 090740.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I make a motion that Bill No. 8 090740 be reported out of committee with a favorable recommendation and a rules suspension to allow for reading at the next session of Council. (Motion duly seconded.)
All those in favor? Opposed? (None opposed.) All right. Therefore, Bill No. 18 090740 will be reported out of this committee with a favorable recommendation, with the rules of Council be suspended so as to permit first reading at our next session of Council. Bill No. 090736 and Bill No. 24 090738 will be held till the next session of Council, on December the 3rd, at 9 94 11/19/09 APPROPRIATIONS - 090736,37,38,39,40 o'clock. Thank you. (Proceedings end at 4:00 p.m.) * * * 95 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings of the City of Philadelphia Council Committee on Appropriations are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me on Thursday, November 19, 2009, and that this is a true and correct statement of same. __________________________________ JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)