Councilman, you're excused. Councilman Nutter, are you finished?
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. I have two questions. One, you've spoken to the importance of -- we've talked about what happens on back end once crimes are committed. I'm committed to this notion that if we do more work on the front end and actually invest the same kind of dollars on the front end, we might make a dent of a difference. Update us, if you will, on the truancy project, the Truancy Unit, what progress has been made from last year. You mention in your testimony 2378 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) that you honored the Mayor's request or supported the Mayor's request of no increases. Was the Truancy Unit affected by that and like?
No. Here's the essential issue. Truancy is probably one of the best predictors, although not universally, obviously, of problems down the road. If you don't go to school, you can't read, you can't work. Our business community complains that students that they see are not ready for work because they can't read, they can't do the fundamental things that you have to do, can't fill out the job application form. And so I believe that truancy is enormously important. We are finding it a real -- first of all, we don't have a truancy unit that goes all over the City. We only got funding for a couple of clusters, 20-some schools. I mean, as I said to Councilman Nutter in a different context, if I could, I'd ask for the world. I mean, it's virtually limitless what we can ask for to do intervention and crime prevention. One of the things that we would like to do more of is to do more truancy, but you can't be fiscally responsible and ask for things. And not only that, but since I've been coming here for so many years, I 2379 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) get tired of asking for things you know you're not going to get. So after a while, you don't ask. It doesn't mean that I don't want. Truancy, I believe if we don't get a better handle on truancy, if we have, if the figures are right, that percent of our kids aren't going 8 to school on any given day, 20-some thousand kids 9 unexcused. I'm not talking about excused absences, 10 unexcused absences. And if kids are going to school but they're not paying attention, they're sleeping -- in other words, to me it's not important if you're sitting on a chair and sleeping or listening to a radio or reading a comic book or just not paying attention, zoning out on whatever the teacher is doing. So it's bigger to me than just willfully failing to appear in school and having our juvenile unit and court system either make children dependent children or make the parents more responsible. It's quite a different thing for having a kid go to school and then sleep through the day or hang out in the lunch room or zone out. That's just the same, although, it's a less aggravating or less visible part of the whole problem of education in Philadelphia. So it's 2380 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) really more than just truancy, which is an enormously complex problem. Of the kids who are actually sitting down in a chair and going to school, how many are actively engaged in the educational process? And that is a tremendously, tremendously complex problem.
And the progress of 12 the program has not been impacted by the crisis 13 facing the School District, the very, very fluid 14 developments over there? 15
No. What impacts our 16 ability to serve is the intractable problems that we 17 are meeting with parents or parent or guardian in 18 recognizing their responsibility as parents to get 19 their kids to school. Never mind all of the other 20 issues that predated the child's going to school, a disruptive dysfunctional family structure, a parent who's mentally, emotionally, physically ill, addicted or both, privation, abuse, neglect, moving from house to house, being shunted from person to person. I mean, when you get a kid to school -- and 2381 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) I've been to many, many, many, schools, hundreds of them especially grade schools when I go there. You see kids who are unwashed, who have body odor, they're unwashed, their clothes are unwashed, they haven't eaten breakfast, they don't know letters, they don't know colors, they don't know ABCs. They start off at such a deficit and yet they go to school, and I tell you something, the teachers in our public schools, especially our grade schools, I'm not making blanket statements, the teachers that I've seen really work their fingers to the bone to get these kids up to speed. And the kids are engaged and interested. The problem happens when they leave school and they go back to the same environment they came from, over the course of time, a teacher, even the best teacher, is fighting a losing battle.
So what provision, if any, is in the current policy, where appropriate, support the parent or penalize lies the parent for their inaction, disengagement, or the like?
Well, there is so much that we can do. Social services we can provide them. But if you really want to get down to it, 2382 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) Councilwoman, if you wanted the best of all possible worlds, the minute a woman gets pregnant who is impoverished or lacking fundamental services, the best of all possible worlds, assign people to that person right now for prenatal, perinatal, neonatal care and then visiting nurses to make sure that a parent is not abusing. The whole panoply of social services which don't come in the purview of the District Attorney's Office, I regret to say, but unless or until we get to that point as a society, you're going to see the same kids who we see time after time after time committing a life of crime at 7, and 8, 9, beginning their life of crime at 7, 8 and 9, starting with truancy at 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9, starting to commit their life of crime at 7, 8, 9 and 10.
So have you been able to measure impact in any way since it's still such young program?
Whatever she explain to 2383 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) you, she is really working diligently. But again, the forces are arrayed against her because she can't impact the family. But she is doing everything humanly possible to make a parent or parent unit responsive to the needs of taking care of their children. It's a very tough sell, but she's really trying.
And so then finally, in your estimation, the School District is holding up its fair share in terms of notification to the appropriate professional unit or the like so that intervention happens --
No, I can't say that because I am without knowledge. Lynn Nichols can give you a better idea of the schools within which she is working how responsive the school or schools are. We didn't know that you'd might ask that so I didn't ask her to come, but as I have done in the past --
Please speak with her. She will tell you her tragedies and her triumphs, her frustrations and her small, and I emphasize the 2384 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) word "small" increments of success.
Finally, will your department be affected by the DROP Program?
It will be affected, but I am pleased to say that those people who are in DROP are those people who are most senior. To that extent, I will say to you that you cannot make up for years of knowledge and service. It can never 10 be recaptured. You have to live it in order to be 11 it. It's like any other thing you do in life. We 12 will be impacted to the extent that some people will 13 leave, although I don't know who signs up because I 14 don't ask, ut to the extent that we will certainly 15 take advantage of whatever resources we have, 16 obviously, people will leave. 17
And in cases like 18 that, I posed this question to other City 19 commissioners, not knowing where Civil Service 20 begins and exempt status starts and ends. Are you 21 in your position as District Attorney able to get 22 professionals of color and women on-line so that 23 they're able to move into the inclined opportunities 24 within your office? 25
We attempt as much as 2385 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) possible to recruit with as wide a net as possible. Obviously, when people move out of units, we promote people and usually we promote from within. It's not been the case that we've ever taken somebody from outside the office and said, "Okay, Ms. Jones, you're going to be our new Chief of X. Usually, the way it works is we promote from within end. So we move a person up who's had the most experience and the person who is ready to assume the responsibilities in whatever the position is. And because of the DROP Program, the benefit of it is that a person knows within X number of years he or she is going to leave so that way we can look within the office to see which person or persons can best take over that job and then train that person to assume the responsibilities. It's not like I come in and give you two weeks notice and say, "Oh, Councilwoman, I'm leaving in two weeks. I've got a better job someplace else." If you're in for DROP, and assuming one stays for the whole four years, at least we have some time to plan.
Okay. I was trying to follow the discussion between you and Councilman 2386 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) Angel Ortiz while I was upstairs in a meeting regarding this concern of the numbers of women and people of color in various capacities within your office. The outcome of that is that you will be submitting what those numbers are? Or what was the yield of that discussion?
I think he wanted to know minorities, Latinos, and African-Americans.
Thank you. I'm sure you never thought you'd be here for three hours testifying.
I've had such a good time, Councilwoman Verna. I always look forward to coming to Council because you just never know what's going to come over transom.
I want to say one thing, 2387 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) if I may.
I hope I haven't conveyed other than the impression that I enjoy this. Councilman Nutter and I have gone through this thing for what now, years, 10 years? It seems like 11. 8 I enjoy -- he ought to be a lawyer. He keeps saying 9 he's not, but I think he's lying. He ought to be a 10 lawyer because he's a good lawyer. As an advocate, 11 he's going to take his position. I'm going to take mine. I enjoy the give and take of advocacy. So it's no big deal for me. I enjoy it. I don't come away here with anything other than, that was a really interesting engagement.
It was very stimulating. A. Let me ask you a question, if I may. I know that you're not asking for any additional monies in your budget, however, I did notice that the Defenders Association is asking for, I believe, two attorneys and one clerk or secretary for the Philadelphia Community Court. That was quite a discussion one day this week. Why aren't you asking for help? You have ample help in that field? 2388 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET)
We did ask for two lawyers and a clerk as well. We only got enough for one lawyer. And because we were asked not to ask for anything more, we didn't ask for anything more. So we're going to try to make it work with whatever we can.
Fine. As I said, there was quite a lengthy discussion about the Community Court. And I know that Councilwoman Blackwell -- I don't know if she asked while she was here.
Well, we're going to have a callback at which time I think she would like you and judge McCaffery to be here regarding that issue.
Councilman Nutter, wasn't that Community Court? 2389 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET)
Yes, the change in the procedure from neighborhood police district preliminary hearings or some kind of hearing all down to the CJC.
Do you want me to also prepared, Council President about the Community Court?
So we'll notify you as to what date Judge McCaffery will be available also.
If you could, I'd just ask one point of personal privilege. I'll try to make schedule as available to Council as I can, but I may not be able to be back here when he's coming depending on how soon or when you schedule it. If I can't be here because I'm either out of town or unavailable, I'll have somebody else. And I'll come back at a different time if that's what you want.
Very well. 2390 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) Fine. Thank you. Are there any other questions from Members of the Committee? Thank you again.
At the request of the stenographer, we're going to take a five-minute recess. (Brief recess.)
We're now back in session. The Defenders association is the last group being called. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good afternoon. Thank you very much for your patience. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. We do have a copy of your testimony which will be given to the stenographer. So if you'd like to abbreviate it, we'd be very appreciative.
Thank you. I certainly will be glad to do that, as always. Thank you, Council President for the opportunity to present our testimony here today. We are grateful for your 2391 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) assistance, especially in the last year in terms of your efforts at bringing us together with the City Budget Department on issues around attorney parity. And this year we are working on parity for administrative staff for comparable positions with the City. That work is proceeding at pace, but I would respectfully ask that you allow us to continue our negotiations. It's kind of the situation we have been in, as you're aware, over the last several years where we have been in the negotiations with the City around what our requirements are but that we have not completed our negotiations.
When is it anticipated that you will be completed with your negotiations. I'm looking at Dubow as I'm asking you the question.
We would say probably a month. Does to work for you, Council President?
Well, I thought that perhaps you would have this done before we pass the budget. However, we'll work on it.
Thank you. We certainly do appreciate the work of the Budget Director and his staff in terms of the work on attorney parity 2392 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) and our budgeting needs. We are in a transition year again this year, fortunately or unfortunately, in terms of having to move our quarters from 17th and Arch to the Packard Building. This has been a huge project with which we have been involved with the City's Managing Director, Commerce Department, Budget Department, Capital and Property. It is expected that we will be moving, I would think, in late spring or hopefully not much later than that. That's still kind of up in the air. Part of what we're working on with the Budget Office is our request for additional funding for this move. There will be a one-time expenditure which we expect to be about 800,000 as is outlined here, one-time expenditures for moving itself, for wiring and new phone system and for new furniture and other equipment that we will need in your new space. We are also working with the Budget Office in terms of salary issues in terms of annualizing the salary increases that were granted as part of the attorney pay equity plan last year. We are also working around the issue of trying to provide sufficient funding that we'd be able to give some kind of increase to our senior staff and 2393 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) management who have not had an increase in two years. 5 percent deduction from the 3 percent that is being given to City departments. Part of the reason, Council President, for our request for this exception and for other funding is an accumulating deficit due to extraordinary increases in benefits costs. As you're aware, since we contract with the City and are not part of the City plan, we have to provide our own benefits, and the costs and the increases have been astronomical. We also expect benefits cost increases this year in health, life, long-term disability, Workers' Comp, and we are working in the Budget Office in these areas. In terms of looking at where we are and the work of the Defender Association, I don't want to overwhelm you with figures, but just a few to show what is happening in terms of the growth in the number of cases that we have experienced. It's been kind of astronomical. It stunned me when I saw these figures. From 1996 through 2001, we received a 50 percent increase in new cases. In terms of new Municipal Court cases, we have had a 90 percent 2394 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) increase in that time period. In terms of the number of court listings for Municipal Court cases, we have had a 103 increase in time period. It's just really out of sight. In terms of new Common Pleas cases, we've had a 58 percent increase in cases. And as to felony preliminary hearings, the increase has been 33 percent. So these numbers which are contained in our report are just really astronomical. And it really amazes me to think about what has been ability to cope with these numbers with what has been a relatively modest increase in the size of our staff over these years. And that is not by way of introduction for asking for staff increases. As you mentioned Council President, we are asking for increase staff for Community Court. We are not asking for other increase in staff. As you've seen in the testimony that we have presented, we talk about some of the highlights of what we do. What we do is to work, not only on providing representation to our adult and juvenile clients who are charged with crimes to our dependent children in our child advocate unit through out child advocate unit and our mental health clients, 2395 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) but also we work on trying to work with the other members of the system in providing solutions and innovation and reform.
We work with the stake-holders in the system in setting up and working on Treatment Court, which has been quite successful in terms of dealing with those with drug problems. We have worked tirelessly on the Community Court experiment, which I certainly hope is going to be a success that is finally under way. We have been with Judge Sylvester and before her with Judge Panapinto (ph) working on model court and those innovations are being spread throughout the dependency system. I think you can see that one of the benefits of that is that there has been a sharp decrease in the number of dependent children in the system. We've also had really enlightened leadership from Family Court under Sylvester and we expect that will continue with Judge Fields and also with the Department of Human Services under the very imaginative leadership of Alva Martinez. We work on the criminal side also. In working with the Health Department and the District Attorney probation and all the players on forensic intensive recovery and intermediate punishment 2396 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) plans. I would just like to mention -- it's not something that we usually stress. We usually stress our criminal representation to a great extent, extent but one of the things we've highlighted in the report is our social service interventions. I think it's important to note what our 70 social workers who are spread over six units are capable of doing. And our juvenile unit which deals with delinquency matters, in addition to working with clients and families, we do teleconference visits. An attorney and social worker visit placements in Western Pennsylvania primarily, but in other states as well, are able to see our clients there and to report back via teleconference. Those trips go on on a regular basis during the months. We also have in the juvenile unit grants that we are working under on special education as well as cases that involve mental health and complex disposition. And we have also worked in terms of multisystemic therapy in providing therapy to children and their families in their homes to keep them out of the system. These are some of the 2397 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) things that our juvenile unit works on, the attorneys and social workers together. In our Adult Social Service Unit, we are the hub, as the chief told me today, in processing clients. And last year we arranged for 1800 clients to go to 50 different programs, which means a very large net savings to the City with 1800 people who would otherwise be in the county prison being sent to 50 programs. It also, of course, has a large societal impact in terms of dealing with the problems that these clients have. In our Child Advocacy Unit, as I mention, the model court model of front loading services to children and families has been extremely successful in the number being released from that system is growing all the time. That's all I highlight for you today, Council President, because there's lot more in the testimony. I thank you for and the Members of City Council for your continuing support. We will certainly get with Mr. Dubow who is one of the hardest working people I know --
He certainly is. 2398 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET)
-- as soon as we can to resolve the outstanding issues that we can present to Council.
Thank you. Is the Packard Building the most economic space for your office?
It appears to be the most economical as well as a location that is feasible in terms of our working at the Criminal Justice Center as well as Family Court at 1801 Vine. The only other perhaps more reasonable were far east and were not really readily accessible for our staff to the courthouses. I don't know if Charlie wants to say anything more on that. Charlie Cunningham, First Assistant Defender and Linda Kosinski our Business Manager have been really the workers on this project of getting us relocated along with my Controller Selim Tawadros and Assistant Controller Kristen Muhl.
Thank you. I am trying to calculate exactly how much more you will need for FY '03.
I had hope to leave that 2399 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) open because it's a fairly substantial amount of money with the relocation.
Well, we have to have a figure so we can certainly look at it when we talk to Mr. Dubow. You indicated it's going to cost 800,000 to move, you're going to need furniture.
You also express the need for two attorneys and one secretary for the Community Court which amounted to 150,000.
There is a need for additional rent, Council President, also of the million dollars a year.
The 800,000 is not in the budget, I gather? Oh, it's in the '03 transfer ordinance? Mr. Dubow, it would be helpful if we 2400 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) could get some understanding of where we are. Is the 800,000 in the transfer budget.
For 02, yes. Rob Dubow, Budget Director. The FY '02 transfer ordinance that City Council is now considering includes money for the move because the move is anticipated to take place late in this Fiscal Year.
So let me get back to my question. How much are we looking for for FY '03 that is not included in the budget.
I think part of the reason that they're unclear is that we're still doing the parity study and until that's completed --
A study we're looking at trying to bring parity in pay in support positions. So until that study is completed, which should be in 2401 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) the next couple of weeks, it's hard for them to give you an exact number that they think should be added to their budget.
It's conceivable, Council President about a million dollars.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. Did I hear an answer to the question why the move, why are you moving?
Mr. Rouse is going to knock down our building and build a skyscraper. It certainly wasn't our choice. We're very happy where we are.
On of your testimony, you state, and I quote, "During 2001, the total number of CAU clients has continued to decrease and direct correlation with the reduction of a total number children entering the dependent system for whom we could receive appointments." Help me out with that. What does that mean?
The number of dependent 2402 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) children in the dependency system, that is under the care of Department of Human Service, is decreasing substantially. Part of it has to do with the court's decision to close cases more quickly, is one thing that they have done. And also, they have moved cases along more quickly in the system. But basically it has to do with their closing cases more quickly. They have had requirements under federal funding that they receive that children have been in custody so long have to get out. And they are really moving them along. Now, they won't all necessarily stay out of the system, but they are closing the cases. Cases that would have remained couple perhaps for a couple years are being closed in six months. Some of it is bookkeeping. And some of is it really because the services have been provided and they're no longer required.
So that's viewed as a positive trend, and our hope is that that will continue, correct?
Absolutely. The model court innovations are have a very great impact on families and getting children out of dependency and into permanent situations. 2403 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET)
You talk about the multisystem therapy which is a positive holistic approach to solving complex problems for the young people. How many youths do we have in the program? How many did we have last year? And what sort of measurements do you have in place to look at impact for dollars spent?
This is probably really the first full year of it. It's my understanding that there are about 100 children being served. It's a federal program. And it's being monitored by them. I don't know what results we have yet. It may be a little too early.
To the extent it is appropriate for this forum, can you give us an 2404 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) update on the Miriam White case?
Presently, the Miriam White case is on appeal to the Superior Court. What has taking place is she has been transferred to a school in Texas.
She remains in that school. We are presently awaiting a superior court decision in the matter in terms of whether or not Judge Hughes who is the judge involved in the case will continue to sit as the judge hearing the case. We would expect and hope that we'll get that decision within six months, but you can never tell with regards to the Superior Court. But that's where the case stands presently.
And while those proceedings are moving along slowly, it looks like she remains at Brown until --
She will remain at Brown School until this issue is resolved.
Okay. With the benefit of hindsight, what is your professional opinion or can you speak on that given where she is 2405 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) that that was the right thing to do?
Well, I think that we still believe that that was the right place for her to go. I don't think we have ever questioned whether or not she should be in Brown School.
You should know for the record that an overwhelming majority of this Body supported that decision as well and attended a press conference to make our presence and our position known. Thank you very much.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you. I guess we're going to talk about truth, justice, and the American way. What is the number of attorneys that are presently working for the Defenders Office?
And the District 2406 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) Attorney has over 300?
221. 305. Seems like the defense is a little bit outnumbered.
We do approximately 70 percent of cases, I guess. So the District Attorney has the other 30 percent to pick up and they have a lot of specialized units that we don't have. Not to that I need to apologize for the District Attorney having more people. They certainly have a lot of people.
What is the current case load per attorney in your office.
Well, with the horizontal system that we have, Councilman --
We don't have a vertical system, that is that a client is not assigned to an attorney, but our attorneys work on the basis of handling the cases that are in a particular courtroom on a particular day. So that they handle a lot more cases in that fashion. 2407 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET)
So you can't measure case loads as you do with a vertical system.
That also doesn't have that level of intimacy and knowledge between client and attorney that other individuals have.
That's certainly true especially at lower levels in the high volume court rooms. When you get up to areas like major cases there is certainly ample time to develop a relationship with your client. In the Homicide Unit, we operate on a vertical basis, that is, when someone charged with homicide, our team is assigned to that person's case and stays with that case. We also have vertical representation in the Juvenile Special Defense Unit for those Juviniles who are charged as adults.
Well, we handle only by court order 20 percent of court appointments. We get every fifth court appointment.
So the cases that the District Attorney judges within her -- I want to use 2408 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) the exact words she used so I don't make a mistake. The notice that she gives in terms of her judgement=.
How many of those 15 cases have you handled during the last three years? 16
Let me give you the 17 figure. We've only been doing this since April '93, 18 which is nine years. In that time we have handled 19 778 cases. 85 percent of them have been designated 20 as capital cases.
And those cases generally in terms of race and gender, do you have numbers on that?
Councilman, just today 2409 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) I spoke with the head of our Homicide Unit and I've asked him to try to put together some figures for us with regard to the cases that we've handled. He's indicated to me that he will indeed try to put together some figures with regard to how many cases we've handled in terms of whether or not they were death qualified. And we can look at it in terms of race and gender as well.
And the notice is totally at the discretion of the District Attorney, not the judge or any other person within the judicial system, right?
That is correct. We have, however, since we've been involved in the homicide situations filed motions to have what the Commonwealth thinks are aggravaters quashed. And in some instances we have in fact been successful and, therefore, have been able to stop a case from proceeding to trial on a capital basis.
I read a memo from Joe Martz to in which he recommendeds a pilot program in essence obviate the hearsay rule in order to, I imagine, process cases in a much quicker way and manner. I'd like to hear your take on that 2410 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) because when I was practicing law, we were able to get rid of a lot -- as a defense attorney, we were able to take cases and just at the preliminary hearing just be able to get rid of them and avoid this client from entering into the judicial system. Are we creating more clients for Common Pleas by doing this because we are not following the rules of evidence?
Indeed, at a very rapid rate we are creating a lot more work in the Court of Common Pleas. We just yesterday recieved a letter from Judge Fitzgerald who is the administrative judge saying that in large measure because of this increase and predicted continuing increase in the number of cases going to the Court of Common Pleas because of the Municipal Court practices that he intends to open three through courtrooms in the Court of Common Pleas. But Charlie can address that. He's a little more closer to the issue than I am.
When I read the memo -- first of all, it comes from Joe Martz who is not an attorney. And then to really say at this stage of the criminal system, which is the portal to 2411 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) entering, and in you many cases if I'm the District Attorney or the Police Department and I have to get rid of one law or one piece of the structure and the process that I need to be able to get this thing into the court system, the hearsay rule is very easy because I can say, So and so told me this and proffer no evidence as to that.
That is exactly what we are seeing today. And I think what we're saying is basically -- in my opinion, we're seeing a violation of the Supreme Court rules that require a preliminary hearing in matters where felony charges are involved. What is taking place is we're not seeing a speeding up of the process, which I think Mr. Martz has misled.
Nor are we saving money. We're not saving and we're not speeding the process.
We're neither speeding up the process nor saving money. All we are doing is shifting things from the Municipal Court System to the Common Pleas Court System and, therefore, taking up time in the higher courts creating a heavier load in the higher courts and therefore 2412 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) going to create a backlog in the higher courts. And frankly speaking, you're going to create a situation where the judges will not be able to handle the more serious cases because cases that shouldn't be in the Common Pleas Court System are still being followed up here because of this hearsay rule. Neater time nor money is being saved. In fact, I would dare say that what you are saying is the expenditure of more money and more time.
And we're also creating a problem for the prison system.
Because if you're doing this, it stands to reason that a lot more people are going to be found with probable cause to go forward and obviously then bail will be set and many of these individuals are too poor to post bail and they will then -- do you have any numbers along those lines of how many individuals that are ending up there and can we begin, as somebody said, put a cost to this?
I think we probably 2413 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) can.
You're going to see -- and we're already over crowded at the prison systems. We've already exceeded the caps. We have 7700 people in the prison system already. You're going to see an increase in that number because these cases that should have been discharged and should have been gotten rid of at the preliminary hearing stages are now being held over. These people are held in custody and, frankly speaking, they're going to be held in custody because more than likely when they're held over for that Common Pleas Court hearing, when the Commonwealth is still not ready to proceed because witnesses are not showing up, these cases are going to get additional listing and you're going to have people continuing to be in prison. Your prison system is going become overcrowded and it's going to become overcrowded in a very rapid fashion. We are already seeing the dockets of the Common Pleas Court becoming overcrowded so much so that the Common Pleas judges are looking at increasing the number of courts. This is not saving anybody money. This is expending 2414 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET) more money.
And if this happens, that also has an impact on your case load because it exponentially increases your case load incredibly quicker.
It's going to require more manpower, more womanpower. You're going to have to put more people in the courtrooms. You're going to have to put more judges, you're going to have to pup more court personnel, you're going to have to put more stenographers, you're going to put more DAs, you're going to have to put more defense lawyers in these courtrooms.
Someone said that the wheels of justice grind exceedingly slow, and they're going to grind slower.
Because we heard from the administrative judges yesterday and the Honorable Massiah-Jackson. And I don't think they're in tuned with this. I don't think they totally look at it as a positive way in terms of actually giving justice and reducing their case load as such. 2415 3/13/02 - WHOLE- BILL 020001 ('03 BUDGET)
We're beginning to track the numbers, but we don't have a long time yet to have tracked what this increase means. But there are going to be thousands of cases that are simply being passed along to Common Pleas and will have to be dealt with there, all at increasing cost. Just the cost of three additional courtrooms for us that Judge Fitzgerald is asking for, you're looking at more than 400,000 to staff that.
Then the oviation of the hearsay rule, then that causes additional problems because that gives grounds for the appeal process to step in, doesn't it?
We're also working on those cases and filing appeals on those issues, but it takes time.
Which causes incredible more time and causes more personnel to be needed, which you're not getting.
You're welcome. I'm sure there are know other questions from Members of the Committee.
Thank you for your patience. We appreciate you coming. Thank you. This committee will stand in recess until Monday, March the 18th at 9:30. Thank you very much. (Council adjourned at 2:45 p.m.) 2417 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of March 13, 2002, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. RE: COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ___________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR and Notary Public