2171 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA CONTINUED PUBLIC HEARING COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET - - - Room 696, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, March 11, 2003 9:40 a.m. - - - BILL 030004 BILL 030008 BILL 030010 - - - PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK J. DI CICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO - - - V A R A L L O, INCORPORATED Litigation Support Services 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 (215) 561-2220 2172 I N D E X WITNESSES REPSIE WARREN, Civil Service Commission .... 2173 LYNDA ORFANELLI, City's Personnel Director . 2174 KEVIN VAUGHN, Free Library ................. 2176 ROBERT DUBOW, City's Budget Director ....... 2180 FAYE MOORE, SEPTA .......................... 2182 FRANCES JONES, SEPTA ....................... 2203 CECIL BOND, SEPTA .......................... 2246 RHONDA COHEN, Community College ............ 2322 STEPHEN CURTIS, Community College .......... 2324 JACK NURASKIN (ph), Community College ...... 2349 DEBORAH COBB ............................... 2381 2173 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Good morning. We thank you all for coming, certainly, to make testimony before the Committee of the Whole on our Operating Budget. This morning our first department is the Personnel Department. And we ask you to identify yourselves to the record and begin your testimony. Thank you again and welcome.
Good morning. I'm going to defer my testimony to the Reverend Repsie Warren from the Civil Service Commission to start first, if that's all right with you, because she has hearings back at the Commission that she must attend.
Thank you again. It is always a pleasure to see Reverend Repsie Warren and thank her for all that she does in our community and with youngsters who are hearing impaired and who need help. Thank you, Reverend Warren. REV. WARREN: Good morning, Honorable Blackwell and Members of City Council. I am Repsie Warren, Chairperson of the Civil Service Commission. I'm very pleased to testify on behalf of myself and Civil Service Commissioners Marwan Kreidie and 2174 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Edward Keenan in support of the Commission's budget request for Fiscal Year 2004. Our total budget request of $164,385 represents an increase of $2,733 over our Fiscal Year '03 estimated obligation of $161,642. This increase is reflected in Class 100 primarily, and it provides for the negotiated salary increases for Civil Service employees. The remainder of our request is slightly reduced from our FY '03 level and will provide funds for training, necessary materials, supplies, and the purchase of minor equipment. This is our report. If you have any questions at this time, I'll be happy to answer them.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions? (No response.)
No questions. Thank you. REV. WARREN: Thank you. Have a blessed day.
Good morning, 2175 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Councilwoman Blackwell and Members of City Council, wherever you are. I'm Lynda Orfanelli, the City's Personnel Director. I'm here to present the budget for our Department. With me today are my deputies, Celia O'Leary, James Kimpson; my Administrative Services Director, Dan Earley, and a few other staff members in case there are questions that they can answer, if you have any. Our Fiscal Year 2004 proposed budget is $5,024,130. It contains $4,405,592 in Class 100, $550,132 in Class 200, $68,406 in Class 300 and 400. This represents an increase of $175,855 from Fiscal Year '03 estimated obligations due to negotiated pay increases for Civil Service employees and the cost of terminal leave payments for employees in the DROP. You have my testimony. I'll be glad to entertain any questions.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions? (No response.)
Thank you. Free Library. Human Relations Commission. Is the Free Library here? If not, we will move to the Human Relations Commission and then come back to the Free Library. Free Library, please come up. Thank you. You must forgive me.
Thank you very much. And the President and Director of the Library, Elliott Shelkrot, is on his way. He'll be here momentarily, but if you'd like me to begin.
Sure. Would you identify yourself for the record, please?
Sure. My name is Kevin Vaughn. I'm the Associate Director of the Free Library of Philadelphia. I want to thank you for having us here today. I know that you have the complete written testimony, so I don't want to cover the entire thing again, but I will say that today, the 2177 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Free Library is requesting a Fiscal Year '04 total budget of $50,310,256, including $38,281,893 in City General Fund and $12,028,363 in Grant Revenue Fund from the Commonwealth of the Pennsylvania. This total requested budget represents an increase of $2,968,373 over our Fiscal Year '03 estimated obligations of $47,341,883, of which $35,957,170 is represented in City General Funds and $11,384,713 represented Grant Revenue Funds. The resulting net increase specified above consists of payroll expenses resulting from mandated union payroll increases and minor increases in Grant Funding, fund appropriations, and it will allow for inflation. A few of the highlights of the current year is that we have a new circulation record. We circulated 7 million books in Fiscal Year '03. We also had, in the first half of Fiscal Year '03, we had $3,200,000 library visits, a 5 percent increase over last year. Hits to our Web totalled almost $42 million, a 53 percent increase in the previous year. Summer Reading Program totaled nearly 54,000 children, which represents a 13 percent increase over Fiscal Year '02, and actually it means that 32 percent of the City's 6- to 12-year-olds 2178 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET participated in the Free Library's Summer Reading Program.
Thank you so much. I assume the Governor's budget will effect our Free Libraries negatively, potentially. We're hoping that before we pass the budget that some of that will be rectified.
We certainly agree with you, Councilwoman. We currently receive $9.4 million, or are projecting $9.4 million from the Governor's budget for next year. And the decrease that was put into the budget that was submitted last week would be 50 percent, which would bring us down to $4.7 million. So we'd have a $4.7 million hole in the budget to fill.
It's taken us so long to get this far. We certainly hope we don't go backward. Thank you very much. Any questions? Councilman Rizzo.
I'd like to follow-up on that. When will you have a plan in place, after the budget is passed, in this 50 proposed cut? How 2179 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET are you going to react to that? What exactly will be the Library's plan, to close branches?
We are in the process of looking at all the options that we have. We hope that no branch closings would be necessary, of course; but $4.7 is a significant amount of money to our budget and we'll have to be nimble to try to find the best ways we can do it and still serve the people of the City of Philadelphia as best we can.
When will that be available to Council, that plan with this reduced budget?
I don't have a projected date, but as I said, we're trying to put together something as quickly as we can. Hopefully, the cut from the State won't be as hefty as proposed, but we're going to look at a couple of different scenarios.
Please, could you provide the Chair with the proposed date when that information will be available? And when it is available, would you provide your plan to respond to that cut in the budget?
Thank you, Councilman. Thank you very much, Mr. Vaughn. Next will be Human Relations Commission. Good morning, Mr. Dubow. We appreciate the fact that you can wear so many hats. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed.
Good morning, Councilwoman Blackwell and Councilman Rizzo. My name is Rob Dubow. I'm the City's Budget Director, and I'm here to provide testimony for the Commission of Human Relations Fiscal Year '04 Operating Budget. The Commission and the Fair Housing Commission are requesting a combined budget of $2,279,873 in FY 2004, a $90,173 increase over FY '03's estimated obligations. Increases necessary to support negotiated wage increases and higher court reporting services. The Commission is authorized for 44 staff positions, which is a decrease of one position from the '03 budget positions. I'd be happy to take any questions.
Thank you very 2181 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET much. Councilman Rizzo.
Mr. Dubow, is there a report available from the Commission on their activities, what they involve themselves in, or are they more confidential? It would be interesting to see what they do, where their interaction is.
Their testimony actually lays out many of the things that they do. But if you'd like a more in-depth report, we'll get that to the Chair.
Well, I'd be interested in some of the hot spots. You know, what exactly are they involved in. There might be issues that they're involved in that I'd like to know about. And I'm sure that we don't need names and addresses, but just complete information. I'd like to see exactly what services they're providing. I know they do good work, but it would be interesting to see what, where, when, what they do.
Thank you, 2182 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Councilman. Any other questions?
Seeing none, this hearing will be recessed until 2 o'clock when we will hear from SEPTA and, immediately thereafter, Community College. Thank you all.
Good afternoon. This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole. I would ask that the representatives from SEPTA please approach the witness table. Good afternoon.
Please identify yourself the record and proceed with your testimony.
My name is Faye Moore. I'm SEPTA's general manager. I'm joined today by Joe Casey of our Finance Division, and Frances Jones from Government Affairs. 5 million for Fiscal 2004 for SEPTA's Operating Budget request and to report on initiatives and milestones achieved over the past year. Included in this request are funds to pay for operating subsidies to leverage State operating assistance. SEPTA's 2,866 vehicle multi-modal network provides travel access for those who live and work in Philadelphia and the region. 1 million daily trips are taken on a SEPTA vehicle, with about 87 percent starting or ending in Philadelphia. Many of these trips are journeys to work. Last year we enhanced access by extending route service to Philadelphia business centers, creating mid-day service and establishing express service on access to job routes. , and Philadelphia residents who commute to suburban employment centers in Radnor, Strafford, Paoli and Great Valley. The value of public transit can be measured not only by where it takes riders, but also 2184 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET by accessibility improvements. Through an ongoing program of fleet upgrades, SEPTA is moving towards a 90 percent achievement rate for Americans with Disabilities Act, referred to as ADA, accessible buses and revenue service. Today 99 of our bus routes use either lift or ramp-equipped vehicles. Public transit also provides environmental value to the communities we serve. Transit vehicles promote energy resource conservation and alleviate local traffic congestion. SEPTA is currently testing an energy efficient hybrid-electric bus for inclusion in its 40-foot ADA accessible, low floor bus fleet. Powered by an electric battery, traditional diesel power system, these buses use less fuel and reduce fuel emissions. Maintaining a state of good repair, renewing mature transit infrastructures, introducing new technology and completing station renovation and new construction projects are all part of a comprehensive program to safeguard the value of SEPTA's assets and improve service delivery to customers. SEPTA's internal forces completed several station projects, including the start of a 2185 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET major renovation or rehabilitation project at Allegheny Station and cosmetic improvements at Hunting Park, Wyoming, and Erie Stations on the Broad Street Subway Line. Infrastructure improvements, including installation of new continuously welded track on Elmwood Avenue, the R8 Fox Chase Line and along portions of Broad Street Subway were also made. " This line is a main transit artery for the City providing strategic connections to the region. To date, work is nearing completion on the Frankford end with the reconstruction of the Berks, Church and Huntingdon Stations and the new Frankford Transportation Center Complex. In Center City, ADA improvements were completed at the 5th Street Station. And ADA and station improvements are being designed for the 8th and 13th Street Stations. In West Philadelphia, ADA renovations are underway at the 30th Street stop and work is occurring on the Market Street Elevated reconstruction project between 46th and 63rd 2186 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Streets. As part of this project, the five existing stations will be demolished and new stations built and the entire 11,000 of guideway will be replaced. In accordance with the US Department of Transportation regulations, small, minority and women-owned businesses, referred to as DBE firms, are afforded an opportunity to participate in the bidding and contract procurement processes established from major capital investment programs. Under SEPTA's DBE program, the goals for MSE contracts are established on a contract by contract basis. 5 percent is based on the contract award of four professional services and three major construction contracts. 4 percent for minority. SEPTA has also established a 10 percent employment goal for construction area residents.
There's another constituency, businesses surrounding the Market Street project experiencing changes in their daily lives who have specific issues that must be addressed during construction. One of these initiatives is creating temporary 2187 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET parking lots to offset the loss of on-street parking during construction. And for this, in her absence, I would like to thank Councilwoman Blackwell for her invaluable support in helping SEPTA to get these temporary facilities in place. In the midst of our efforts to improve the SEPTA system, we are also keenly aware of the heightened concern for safety and security. Septa's Transit Police Force employs modern policing techniques and Best Practice standards, including the deployment of specialized Canine, Bicycle, Criminal investigations and special operations response team units and officer assignment rotations. This enables them to work in decentralized geographic areas, protecting against traditional criminal activity while remaining constantly vigilant against the potential for terrorism. For the 13th consecutive year, crime in the SEPTA system was reduced through the efforts of our patrol officers. Last year, 7 percent decline in Part crimes translates into an overall 23 reduction of 91 percent since 1989. 24 Addressing the task of communicating 25 information to customers, particularly when 2188 1 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET temporary changes to published schedules are necessary due to weather or other operating conditions has certainly been put to the test with this recent snow that our region has experienced. A communication basic, like SEPTA's page in the Metro newspaper, has proven to be an effective way to update riders about service news. More advanced methods, like the Pilot Smart Station at the Cecil B. Moore Station on the Broad Street Line will combine state-of-the-art communication, security and life safety technology. Finally, SEPTA's financial outlook mirrors the conditions of government entities and other transit properties are facing, with growing deficits, escalating costs and decreasing revenues. Like the City of Philadelphia, SEPTA's fiscal disciplines are also guided by balanced budget mandate. Customer service and safety and security cannot be compromised if SEPTA is going to deliver on its core business goal of excellent public transit service. But with an uncertain economic future and the prospect of reduced State subsidy funding, the ability to do more with less is growing increasingly difficult. In addressing its financial 2189 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET issues, SEPTA, like the City of Philadelphia, must be realistic about the options available to achieve a balanced budget. In the face of these challenges, SEPTA remains committed to enhancing the vitality and quality of life in the City of Philadelphia by offering the citizens the ability to be mobile using public transit. President Verna, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony this afternoon. I look forward to working with you, Councilman Goode, Chair of the Transportation and Public Utilities Committee, and with other Members of Council to meet Philadelphia's access needs.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Moore, thank you for your testimony, I appreciate that. I have a question. It's just one that's been a little nuisance question for many, 2190 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET many years. It's the responsibility of the SEPTA Police. It seems very difficult to communicate with your Police Department in reference to some things that I've heard from police officers on the street that maybe you can explain or have one of your staff explain the responsibility of the SEPTA police in the area of parking and bus stops. I've been told that since our Police Department has been so very, very busy doing other things, that they've occasionally asked your chief to be helpful in enforcing the illegal parking in bus stops, and it seems that there is no cooperation in that area. And it's very difficult to get a SEPTA Police Officer to issue a parking ticket when a vehicle is blocking a SEPTA stop. So if we have a SEPTA Police Department and they have the authority to write a ticket, I would appreciate you instructing your chief to do what they're supposed to do and help our Philadelphia Police Department prevent bus stops from being blocked by illegally parked vehicles and using the resources that you have to get those vehicles towed. Your bus drivers constantly complain that they don't pull over and give up that lane of 2191 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET traffic because they can't pull over. Well, when SEPTA police ride by and see it, especially in Center City, and do nothing about it, that bothers me. Could you respond to that, please?
Well, the only thing I will tell you is I will take it back to the chief. As you pointed out, if we don't clear that area, our buses can't pull over. We get more complaints about the bus not being able to pull over. So I will take it back to the chief. Because I know we issue tickets. I just --
Well, I'd appreciate you having a response back to the Chair in writing in reference to that issue. A similar condition, not just blocking bus stops, we have issues in Center City where we have posted signs that say, do not park here because it interferes with the bus making the turns. And how many times I've been driving through Center City and there's a driver that won't budge the bus, won't back it up, won't move the bus because there's some rule that they can't back up without a supervisor being present, or whatever the situation is. I'm not even sure I'm accurate on that. That we have an 2192 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET intersection blocked by a SEPTA bus because someone is parked in the area that they need to complete their turn. It's not a bus stop. I forget how you refer to it. It's an area that the bus needs to complete their turn. And I think that's a natural job of the SEPTA police, that if they see those areas blocked, do something about it. Not take one of our traffic units or a district car out of service to enforce parking in areas that you need to operate your vehicles. So I'd appreciate those questions being responded to. Because I've tried to communicate with your Police Department with no 14 response. Thank you.
Okay. I'll follow-up that. And the area you were talking about is the turning radius that they need to actually --
I'm sure your people in SEPTA and you understand what I'm trying to say. You want to go from one street to the other and you need that area to make your turn and people -- I think sometimes it's an innocent error. They don't realize what the ramification is going to be of parking in those areas. But my point being is our Philadelphia Police are very, very busy, and I think 2193 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that SEPTA should be taking care of the prime responsibility keeping your right-of-way clear and all the other things that they do. But that should be one that not be forgotten.
Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Pretty good. What is the projected total cost for the reconstruction of the Market-Frankford El?
Let's see. I think on the west, it's valued at roughly $560 million and on the other end it might have been, at the point in time 2194 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET we started, about $300 million.
Well, I guess the Frankford area under the lease lease back is owned by the City, and the West Philadelphia end is owned by SEPTA.
I guess when all the enterprises merged. That's how it's identified in the lease lease back.
There's a host of things, but the other single biggest asset would be the Broad Street Line.
Can you provide a detailed list of what the City owns and leases to SEPTA? I'm also making that request to Public Property.
Okay. Because I was about to say, we'll coordinate with Public Property. Because what I'd probably say might not be quite 2195 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET what they would say.
Actually, I'd prefer a detailed list in writing forwarded to the Chair.
When is the lease of the Frankford side going to expire?
I think the lease lease back is the early part of 2004, so maybe the first quarter of 2004.
Well, some decision has to be about the assets. There are terms -- I can tell you right now SEPTA is -- and I'm sort of thinking the City is on the same wavelength. We're studying the lease lease back to make sure we understand the rights and privileges of what we view to be our side and then I think there's a series of discussions with the City. I would hope that SEPTA would continue as it is.
We have not sat down to have negotiations. I think both parties are studying the 2196 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET agreement to make sure we all understand it.
I'm not sure. I would have to guess it's under Strategic Planning, since that's where the transportation arm is. But I don't know.
Is SEPTA interested in purchasing the Frankford portion from the City?
At this point in time, I don't know what our rights and privileges are, so I don't want to speculate. But like all the other agencies around, SEPTA has limited money, so it just depends on how the two parties can negotiate terms and conditions.
What if the City decided it didn't want to lease or sell the Frankford portion of the El to SEPTA?
Good answer. Interesting answer, but a good answer. Could you forward a copy of all leases between the City and SEPTA to the Chair? 2197 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
It's a master lease on the Frankford portion? Is it on the entire El and it just gives the City ownership of the Frankford portion, and SEPTA the Market Street portion; or are they two separate leases?
It deals with assets that we're leasing from the City and assets that SEPTA would have, et cetera. It's pretty complicated. It's pretty thick.
And you're looking for the 1968 lease lease back arrangement with the City of Philadelphia? That's the agreement you're looking for?
I think it's the spring of 2004. We'll send that over. I think it's early 2004.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
On , I'd like to find out -- you said the work is nearing completion on the Frankford side of the line with the reconstruction of Berks, Church, and Huntingdon Stations. Could you detail to me whose doing the prime construction and repair in those places, in that area? What's the company?
I don't remember. We'll have to give that back to you. 2199 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Well, if you give me that, I'd like to find out a listing of all minority contractors that work in the Berks, Church, and Huntington Stations and the creation of the new Frankford Transportation Complex.
Well, that's what I'm asking. I'm asking for you to detail to me the companies that have those contracts, the subcontractors, and detail the minorities, African American, Latino, women. And if you can do that also in terms of the renovations that are taking place at Market and Frankford, the 5th Street Station, the renovations that have begun at 30th Street Station, the Market Street Elevated MSE project in West Philadelphia, the five existing stations, 46, 52, 56, 60 and 63 will be demolished and rebuilt. I'd like to find out who are the people who are doing the demolition part of it, if any subcontractors are there.
I understand. Forward the RFP, the bid to us and give us the 2200 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET companies, contractors and percentages. I would also like to -- if you can. I don't know if you can -- in each of these projects -- and I really don't know if you really can. I'm asking you to see if you can give to the President a list of people that have worked in each of these projects. Ask from the contractors, the prime contractors and the subcontractors, a list of the individuals that have been employed as laborers, skilled, whatever it is, down the line out of each one of these projects. And my colleague, Councilwoman Blondel Reynolds, asked for the addresses because we want to see how many of those individuals are actual residents of Philadelphia and who are not. And we'd also like to see, if you can, the percentages of minorities, women, Latinos and African American, Latinos and so on, that have been employed in these projects. As you well know -- and my good friend Frances has gone through -- there is a great deal of controversy about this and we want to be able to assure folks that we're being very conscientious and just in following through with these processes. I'd also like to find out the level of 2201 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET personal service contracts that SEPTA gives out. In terms of attorneys, law firms, and I'd like to see from you those law firms that have been employed in the last two years and, again, a breakdown of minorities. And other professional contracts also. I'm using law firms because I remember before you came on we had a meeting a few years back, around two years ago. We had a meeting and I was given a set of numbers and, one, there were no Latino professional contracts. There were names of people, but no contracts that had been admitted. There are firms, I figure, that were considered, but, again, no contract submitted. And I'd like to see, you know, how we're doing in terms of inclusion and this SEPTA money that gets spent in both the professional services contracts and in the contracts that go for the actual rebuilding of the system. So if you can do that, I really would appreciate that. Thank you.
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco. 2202 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Thank you. Good afternoon. Also along that line, on of your testimony, you stated that SEPTA has established a Voluntary Construction Area Residents Employment Goal of percent. Could you 7 tell me when that was established and what has been 8 your progress in hiring area residents on SEPTA 9 projects? 10
The time frame established would have been in the early stage, so at least three years. 1999. I can give you that information as of November. And the residential goal was 10 percent and our realization is 11.2 percent.
How does that work? How are you able to get the area residents hired on those construction projects?
Well, we have outreach. We actually have companies consultants that help us identify individuals. We have sign-in sheets when we have all of our community meetings and things of that nature. There's some training programs that they can go to to qualify for the work. So there are several outreach efforts that we do to get the residents. 2203 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
In some cases, yes. In some cases we recommend them to additional training classes, et cetera.
So what happens? How long are they in the training classes and do they ever get a job?
We have a definition between TOP/WIN and DAP. Frances is close to those two agencies.
I'm Frances Jones, Assistant Manager of Government Affairs at SEPTA. As a part of our extensive outreach, before we started the project, we did hear from the community that they were interested in jobs. In any instances where there were people that were interested that didn't have the appropriate training, we worked very closely with a community-based group that was established around the project, Urban Mass Transit Task Force. And a part of the task force were elected officials and community leaders. The training was a project that we thought a component that we felt was absolutely 2204 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET critical to the project. But because we couldn't use transportation allocated funds through FTA, Federal Transit Administration, we had to identify external funds for the training program. It didn't come directly through SEPTA. The monies came through an outside source and those dollars were funded directly through the Diversified Apprenticeship Program through one of the local unions. So those persons that were interested in getting training for the apprenticeship test were funneled through that training program. Those persons that were interested in getting construction skills were funneled through TOP/WIN, whose funding comes from Philadelphia Work Force Development Corporation. So we have two very specific tracks that we funnel clients through that are interested in training to work on the project.
Now, they go through the training process. Do they come back to SEPTA? They come to you. You put them in a training program. How long is the training program?
Both training programs, both tracks, have just started the beginning of the year. 2205 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET The DAP program is about, I think, to weeks. TOP/WIN is a little less. However, both we're in the process of structuring so that when the training is complete there will be jobs in those specific skills available to the trainees.
How will you 8 identify the jobs? How will you identify the 9 skills? They will be SEPTA jobs? 10
The skills are being 11 identified in cooperation and in coordination with 12 the contractor and our Capital Design and 13 Construction Department. And so based upon the 14 contracts, there are specific skill sets that will 15 be identified and the persons that are going through 16 the training program will be trained to be able to 17 work in those specific skills. 18
So your 11.2 19 percent is really your recruitment? You recruited 20 11.2 percent to participate in the training programs, or you have 11.2 percent workers on jobs?
Yes. These are individuals who are getting some degree of pay checks.
But are they through a training program or are they pay checks 2206 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET through employment on a SEPTA job?
They have actually been hired by contractors that are on the SEPTA project.
No, the number of people. I guess I'm asking, 10 percent of what? What is the 10 percent representing? 10 percent of what? And then how does that translate into numbers? Ms. MOORE: I'm leafing through documents. I think I might have it. Again, this is as of November because that's one of the latest pieces that we have. The actual hours worked would be 94,720 hours, so it would be 11 percent of those 95,000 hours.
Well, how many people are working? Because, you, know, they hire one person and work them around in different jobs. They play games with these numbers, you know. It's 2207 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET not always people. I had a guy try to explain to me -- and I never learned it -- something about man hours. I don't understand all of that.
I'd like to know how many people are actually working on SEPTA jobs that you have recruited, put through a training program, I'd like to know, out of the number of employees that are on those jobs, how many of them are African American or women.
Okay. The total number of workers is 534. Now, out of that, you want to know those designations?
I would like to know how many of them are part of your program. What does that 11 percent represent? Also, how many of your employees -- do they continue, these individuals who have gone through these training programs, and are working maybe on one project, are they successful in moving to other projects? And the other question I wanted to ask you is, who is in charge of monitoring your program?
I'll answer the last one first. We have an outside agency that works with 2208 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET us.
It is a minority-owned firm that has expertise in monitoring and working very closely with projects of the size that SEPTA is and monitoring their DBE goals as well as employment goals on projects.
Who is the executive director or president, the name of the person?
Contract Compliance, Inc. It's located in Philadelphia. The office is here in Philadelphia.
Could you get that information to the President, please?
The first part of your question, they are the employees of the contractor or subcontractor. They're not SEPTA employees. I guess my hope would be that if they are on one project -- these are transferable skills, so would one would think then they would be qualified to move to other projects, but they're not SEPTA employees.
So when you have a construction job, you require that 10 percent of the employees be minority?
Well, for this one case, there is a residential goal, but it's purely voluntary. So under the FTA guidelines, we can't mandate it. But we have been very fortunate in that our contractors have accepted the voluntary goal of 10 percent.
What skill trades do they have and what jobs are they working on? Who are they? What are the skilled areas they're working in?
They are all construction trades skills, under plumbing, carpentry -- 2210 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I would like to know the number of people on the jobs, the skills they are working in.
On of your testimony also you discuss the Diversified Apprenticeship Program and the Tradeswomen of Purpose/Work in Non-Traditional Work Program. How have these programs worked in reference to getting women and minority sponsors in the building trades? We've had discussions in the Council in the last two weeks about the same programs you talked about, the DAP program and other training program where women, particularly women from the TOP/WIN program and from the DAP programs, they receive the training, but they cannot get into the union, which is the ultimate goal of all of this activity and request for participation. Since it seems to be a requirement that you have to be a member of the Laborers' Unions in order to get work, our goal is to create an environment where they, not only are trained, but have permanent employment, not only with SEPTA, but with other construction jobs at the 2211 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET same time.
It goes back to what she was saying earlier. For our DAP and TOP/WIN programs, those training classes just started, so we haven't had a graduating class from each either one of them. I think they started in November or December of 2002.
Are you paying for the training in the DAP program or the TOP/WIN?
Neither are using SEPTA funding. Both were funds from outside sources.
And SEPTA, how did you ask them to train these employees?
Keep in mind, they're not our employees. They are employees of the contractor or subcontractor.
How do they come to the program? Where is your involvement here?
We're the owner of the project. We made the project available, and that's where we come into play. 2212 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
And so the DAP Program and the TOP/WIN programs train the workers to go on these projects and out of these training programs, you ask the contractors to take some of these trainees on.
The individuals who graduate from those programs should be eligible to then participate in the project, depending on, again, which craft or what skill they're going after.
If the contractor doesn't meet the goals that SEPTA has put forward and consistently misses those goals, does SEPTA have any power or does SEPTA have a policy that says to that contractor that they will no longer be eligible for bidding on SEPTA contracts because they have not done the job that they contracted for in terms of meeting the minority goals in terms of subcontracts and so on down the line? Is there a policy about that?
It's a complicated, as you can imagine, legal question, but what we do is we encourage our contractors. We routinely meet with 2213 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET them. Mr. Bond, who heads our --
I know that everybody encourages, but is there a firm public policy that says, you fail to meet these goals constantly -- is there something that goes towards the objective of getting people who get taxpayers' contracts and money to comply with minority set asides?
Well, we don't do set asides, just in case the federal government is listening.
I understand. I am just using the phrase. That do not meet the goals that you said in terms of minority and female contracts?
If contractors have demonstrated good faith efforts -- and there is a whole litany of definitions for good faith effort -- then it becomes extremely difficult for us to eliminate that vendor from bidding on future work.
Do you have in your specifications or your requirements that the goal of inclusion or diversity is one of the requirements of a project? 2214 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
We have DBE goals, as well as EEO goals. So DBE would be for businesses. EEO would be for individuals.
Well, it's a whole listing of, I guess, legal parameters, et cetera, demonstrated effort.
Well, I'm not sure whether it's federal versus legal versus whatever. Mr. Bond has reminded me it's sort of spelled out in the federal guidelines.
What's the worst that could happen to you if you just didn't pay it any attention?
If I didn't pay what any attention? I'm not sure I understand the question.
The good faith effort. If you saw that a contractor was not really making a good faith effort, what is the worst that could happen to SEPTA if you do not award them that contract? 2215 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
If they have demonstrated but we don't accept that as a good faith effort, then a dispute occurs, legal confrontation occurs. So lawsuits and dispute resolutions.
Let me ask you another question not only on construction. Now, this more directly involves SEPTA, because you are the primary contractor now on vendors in terms of supplies and services. What is your success rate in having diverse suppliers?
As part of some of the many regulations that we have to adhere to, the federal government requires that we send in a DBE report yearly. The first quarter DBE report went in, I guess, we're on the fiscal federal calendar, so it would have started October. That last report showed about a 29 percent DBE participation for goods, services, things of that nature. Now, again, that's just one quarter. Every year we send in a DBE report to the federal government, and I think our goal for the last two years has been 18 percent. And we have satisfied that 18 percent. And that's DBE across the board.
Do you have it 2216 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET spelled out? DBE includes a lot of different categories. You could have 29 percent of all women. You could have African-Americans. You could have 29 percent of Asian, Latinos.
Yes. We break it out by ethnic group. So every year we file it with the federal government. And we'd be glad to share the information. It is public. We can send that over for the last fiscal year.
What are the areas? Are they diversified areas of purchase or you have a heavy concentration in one area of service?
They're across the board. Supplies, paper products, consulting. It runs the gamut. And the DBE report, if my memory serves me right -- and correct if I'm wrong -- but the DBE report actually lists the vendor or at least the classification.
Could we have a copy of that, that last report to go to the President?
Thank you very much. 2217 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I, like my colleagues, am interested in the level of minority participation. Do you get recommendations from your Contract Compliance, Inc. on good faith recommendations, good faith efforts? Who is it that gives you information on what you consider a good, good faith effort?
We have a unit actually within our operation, we have a Small Business Development Unit. And those individuals are responsible for our DBE program. To the degree that something comes in and the goal is not met, that unit works with the bidding contractors to supply DBE firms that they can talk to, et cetera. And they monitor and have ongoing discussions with those primes. So we have a unit within SEPTA that is the primary focus for getting DBE numbers.
How long have you had this unit? 2218 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Can we get a 5 report -- I know you said in the last two years, I 6 believe, you've had 18 percent. 7
That's been our goal that we 8 actually publish and send to the federal government 9 as our goal for that year. 10
Can we look at 11 maybe the last four years to do a comparison of what 12 18 percent means now versus what was happening two, 13 three years ago? 14
I'm not sure I understand. 15 You want, for four years our DBE goal and sort of 16 looking at it to date, what we would have done four 17 years ago? 18
Okay. So just four years of 21 the goal and what the groups would have been. Now, 22 I'm not so sure -- I know the last couple of years 23 we have a lot of detailed information because we've 24 been tracking it in more detail. I'm not sure how 25 much is available for the first two years that you 2219 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET mentioned, but we'll send you what we have.
Because we'd just like to be able to look at the numbers to track progress, or lack of. I want to leave the minority contracting information for a minute and talk about snow removal. Does SEPTA have a snow removal plan, particularly for the overpasses, the bridges and whatnot? Because I have a lot of overpasses in my district that actually we have problems with.
Now, I'm not sure every overpass is ours, but, yes, we have a snow removal plan.
Well, some of the ones that I called the Streets Department about, particularly those that were near schools -- and I'll get you a list so we can determine whether it's SEPTA or whether it's Streets Department. Some of those were SEPTA's. But the Streets Department did remove the snow because children were walking in the street and whatnot to get to school. And I just want to know, do you have a snow removal plan; and, if you do, can you describe it somewhat to us now?
I cannot describe it. Yes, 2220 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET we have a plan, but I can't describe it, so we'll have to get back in touch with you.
Because I think that's a question that a lot of people have because, especially once schools opened, after this last storm, there was -- and I don't think you're miracle workers and I'm not expecting that. However, there were some concerns.
Yes. I will call Frances and give her those streets. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. Good evening. Maybe I misheard part of the response. There was a question that Councilman Ortiz asked, who had the contract for MSW; was that the question? I remember the response that some contractor had not been chosen?
Because I know that they're working out in my area. Driscoll Company is out there and as you know, many of you, 2221 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET when we were in Harrisburg yesterday, there was a tour yesterday with the press and some other members of the project and in terms of -- some of the reason I think we have problems are that, rightly or wrongly, some people in the community, for example, Ms. Basemore (ph)-- I'm sure Frances knows her -- says that the community was promised some of the small jobs, that they would be sublet to them and that they would have an opportunity to work. This whole issue of minority participation has just become so big because as we strive to do NTI and other neighborhood projects, and people don't see their neighbors working, they're upset. And that's only natural. I think that's the bottom line. Contracts have to include -- people have to see their own neighbors working or we're going to have a problem. It's that way now. That's the problem here and it's the problem across the board in the City. That's my own assessment of what's going on. Understand too, that there's a meeting scheduled for Thursday and that's going to be, frankly -- and I understand it just came up yesterday, but that's going to be impossible. I have three other affairs dealing with budget stuff. That's going to be 2222 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET impossible for me. Even though I obviously want to be involved, I think that the fact that the issue has hit the news media in a big way is good. I think that I'm hoping that ultimately will help the community because attention focused somehow often makes people all do even better when they know that the world is looking in on them. Certainly in West Philadelphia, I think from the beginning if ever there is a contract for people to do neighborhood work, neighborhood inclusion, I think that that group should always come from the existing community. I don't believe we would have so many problems -- you can't supplant groups in neighborhoods and think it's going to work. You can't pull somebody from West Oak Lane to 52nd Street or from Delaware Avenue to 60th Street and think it's going to work. You've got to deal with the people and the organizations that are in place. And so, I mean, hindsight is always 20/20, but I think that in spite of money spent on those contracts, I think conflict was built in. And furthermore, I would again say that we talked about having hearings. We had that introduced quite sometime ago, in fact, before my 2223 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET mother passed, I guess in the fall, we introduced a resolution calling for hearings to deal with how we help our neighborhood businesses. And in neighborhoods, businesses are in real trouble because their clientele, their clients, people who shop their businesses live in maybe three to six to ten blocks of that business. We've got big problems in West Philly from to 46th to 63rd because of the fact that businesses certainly are not getting the attention that they need and we are asking SEPTA if you would focus in on more advertising on the El, other facilities that run. We know that we've purveyed upon you to open up the sidewalks so that shoppers can walk down the streets. But we're requesting for Easter, not as part of the issue of advertising, that you also do additional advertising on buses, Els and other facilities that run so that they know that the stores are open and that we do what we can to not only advertise for that one day -- and I know we've been through this many, many times and I'll ask you to respond. And I'll say to my colleagues, we've been through the issue many, many times about what we do for neighborhood businesses because SEPTA always tells me, "We're 2224 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET SEPTA. " And obviously we as elected officials represent everybody and we have to try to help our businesses who are failing and can't sustain a six-year plan.
We've already prevailed upon the City to get a 50 percent match for facade treatment, but that's when the construction is over. That won't get us through the long haul. And we're asking in addition to your helping us with parking and we're asking that you make that a little stronger for a transfer of properties to the City so that we could have neighborhood parking when the project is gone so that we're assured of that. But we're also asking that you consider at this time help to neighborhood businesses that won't violate you but certainly help us. So, in other words, we still need, in addition to Easter advertising, we need some additional advertising to let neighborhood people know, whether it be fliers where we could have neighborhood people do that and advertising across the board, to let people know that our neighborhood businesses are open. If we can't do it directly, 2225 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET since we can't get direct subsidy to the neighborhood businesses, we're asking that you help us advertise even further that the businesses are still open.
We'll work that out with Portfolio and Baker, but it seems reasonable that we should be able to do that.
And then one final thing, let me ask before I relinquish the mike. And that is, we also want to ask you if you would consider hiring safety ambassadors. That may help as well. In West Philadelphia we have, for example, University City District that has safety ambassadors. It would help so that people would know -- they give directions. They let people know where stores are. They make sure they're safe. And then it would also employ a few neighborhood people. They would be called safety ambassadors. And we're happy to work with you individually on, you know, their earnings and that sort of thing.
Yes. Thank you. 2226 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. Let me first follow-up on Councilwoman Blackwell's quote and statement. And her quote was that hindsight is 20/20. So given the circumstance that we currently face in West Philadelphia, if we could replay the tape, rewind it, what would SEPTA do differently? Or what might SEPTA suggest with regards to this relationship with the community? What would you do differently?
Well, I'm not sure I have that much hindsight, but part of the limitations that we have continues to be -- obviously we can't. Within our federal guidelines we can't dictate that we only hire people from one geographic area or another one. So that will continue to be a problem in any project that we're going to have. Because in using, again, federal money, you can't have geographic preferences. That includes vendors as well as employment area codes, zip codes, et cetera. But I guess part of what we could do, is, again, the 2227 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET awareness, the advertising, seeing what smaller things could be done that might be in our jurisdiction that we could do. The safety ambassadors, on the surface, it sounds like a good idea. We have to look into it and see what's involved. But those items where we could engage a small population of the immediate area that's impacted, they have knowledge of the area, they would know detours, et cetera, so that could make some sense.
Can I just comment on that? You said the federal rules are omnipotent, I guess the word would be, in spite of the fact that the State's portion is 76 percent subsidy for SEPTA compared with 30 percent subsidy for the federal government, or are you speaking specifically about the dollars that come for the contracts?
Yes, that project. Eighty percent of that project's dollars come from federal government. And 3 1/3 percent would come from local, with 16 2/3 coming from the State. So you can see the State could also have a problem with just geographic preference for one ZIP code. The federal government, obviously, has a problem if we 2228 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET limit it to one state or one area since their dollars come from across the country. So we have two barriers to geographic preferences.
Is there any flexibility? What is the philosophical position of the Board as it relates to putting people to work from the community who pay taxes and are unemployed because they can't get jobs and this being a major economic development boom unprecedented for the area, what is the philosophical position of the board?
But I will tell you that part of what they counsel us almost at every board meeting is, we have to adhere to rules and regulations, especially the federal. Since this project is so big, to jeopardize the loss of federal money jeopardizes the project. So clearly we don't want to jeopardize the opportunity to do some good in that area. 2229 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
In addition to raising awareness more efficiently and effectively, what else would you re-do given the benefit if you have a chance to rewind the tape?
Well, I'm not so sure we're at a point yet to rewind. We're still learning. Every day we come up with items that we have to look at. We sort of, at different points in projects, sort of step back and look back to see if we could have done things differently. We did the same thing at Frankford for the Transportation Center. That's when it dawned on us we needed more community outreach. We're probably doing more community outreach for the west side than we've ever done. We have three or four consultants and everybody working hard to try to get information out. So that was the lesson we learned from looking back at Frankford Transportation Center. So at any point we take a look back and sort of see what could we have done differently. I am sure this is an ongoing process where everyday we're looking back to see what could we have done a little different than we're doing.
And for the record, how long is this project expected to last? 2230 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
2007. Everything complete, stations, everything, 2007 it would be over.
And given how projects like this go, how many setbacks have you had already, in terms of benchmarks with your timeline because that really drives whether we end up at 2007 or 2008 or 2010.
The project managers tell me that if financing stays in place, given they have a master timeline, that master timeline is being adhered to as long as financing stays in place, they expect to adhere to that master timeline. The slippage that could occur, we don't have that flexibility in this one. So the project managers are being pretty diligent on making sure that the contractors, subcontractors, everybody adheres to deadlines.
And you use that scary word "if." What would put financing at risk?
Well, if for whatever reason, we have to do bids -- like the five stations. The five station bids come in at $200 million, and we had $100 million budgeted then we have $100 million that we'd have to find. With 2231 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET reduced funding on several fronts, I'm not sure where we'd get it from. So it's that type of hiccup that might occur that we hope will not occur.
Let me move to another area that I am more interested in. I share collectively the sentiment of my colleagues around the whole world of minority contracting and where we are and where we are not. So I join that chorus. You state in your mission statement, and I quote, "To provide transportation services that enhance the quality of life to strengthen the SEPTA organization by becoming an essential partner in the community." So given that and Philadelphia's contribution of 53 percent, there's no discussion of young people, students, in your testimony. What is the percentage of student ridership?
I think we have about 60,000. And that's across the region, so it's not just Philadelphia.
60,000 students. In my first two years there was a lot of discussion concerning the school token issue. Tell us where you are now with that.
Effective July 2001 -- and, 2232 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET again, I caution the internal SEPTA people, if I raise my hand and say something, correct me. But effective 2001 we introduced the ComPass Program that we had offered to corporations to the school districts. So as of July 1, 2001 they were eligible for the ComPass discount, which is about 5 percent.
Given the, in my personal point of view, the exciting, long overdue reform that's happening at the School District and given the advocacy that our new superintendent does regularly on behalf of students, might you ever envision a day where we could give our students passes? Because there's a lot of anecdotal evidence that suggests that many of our students are so poor they can't afford to come to school and, therefore, they miss school.
Well, I have two prohibitions. One, I have a federal prohibition that tells me I cannot transport school kids. I should not be the primary carrier for school kids. We sort of -- not stretch it -- but we are allowed to have what we call trippers, so short distances. So we pick up some school kids at the end of a trip or the beginning of a trip, therefore, we call it 2233 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET trippers. But the basic route cannot be designed to transport school kids. In addition to that, I have on the state level, a prohibition for letting anyone ride free. So, you can see, I have two hands tied behind two backs.
So this new initiative you expect to implement July 1 --
Okay, then. Thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Mariano.
Thank you. Hi, Ms. Moore. Ms. Moore, I came in here at the end of Councilwoman Tasco's questioning, but there was a couple interesting things, and I think Councilwoman Blackwell touched on it, so if it's repeated, bear with me. If a contractor wins a bid for a job, SEPTA's not the prime contractor. SEPTA is just building something?
You're the owner, right. Say, Rizzo Contracting wins. They sub it out to the subs. Who's responsible for the women and minority participation, the generals or the sub?
We contract with the prime, so the prime is responsible to SEPTA.
So if a prime doesn't meet the minority participation goals for women and minorities, are they ever banned from bidding SEPTA work again?
I did sort of address that one. If they've shown a good faith effort, it becomes almost impossible for us to ban them. They are monitored. They are pulled in repeatedly. As I mentioned, we have a small business unit that is in constant communication. They have to send in monthly reports. So there is a constant monitoring to see where they stand with the DBEs.
So, if I understand what you told Councilwoman Blackwell, you really can't do it by neighborhood. So if you were building it in Frankford or in West Philly, if most of the people that lived in West Philadelphia -- and believe me, I understand probably some of the 2235 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET reasons why, but I think what everyone misses here, is this job is going to be a five-year job. There's probably a resident in that area that may be coming from TOP/WIN that needs to get an entree into one of the trades. And not just one of the basic trades, one of the mechanical trades, electricians, steam fitters, sprinkler fitters, whatever. So if a woman goes to that course, TOP/WIN, and -- what's that, a year? And that prepares her to take the test, now, we're a year into this project. She may be the neighborhood resident that everybody wants to have. By the time she gets into the apprentice program you may be in year two of this project. She becomes an apprentice and then she's in year three. A four or five-year program. Now, does anybody monitor this particular individual's existence in one of these programs? I mean, the stuff that Councilwoman Blackwell mentioned is nice and all, but I would rather see a woman or anyone get in a basic trade. When this project is done, and we're all dead and gone, that young man or woman could possibly learn a trade that could teach them to make $70, $80,000. Hopefully, they keep living in Philadelphia and 2236 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET don't go move to Jersey, which is very much the case. But I think there is a little bit of responsibility of SEPTA. And the little bit I do know about this, and most of it is from the seat of my pants, you know, being in the building trades and working for a union at once, I think a lot of the stuff here, is stuff we overlook. And we overlook it because once that project is done, nobody in West Philly is interested in what's happening. Now, I just sat through that whole Frankford thing -- and Councilman Goode, who worked for the City at the beginning, so we talked about this before he was Councilman. And this happens now, I'm sure. There's someone in Frankford that may have gotten into one of the unions, Ms. X, we'll say. She may be close to becoming a journeyman in one of the trades. She should still be able to get work on the job in West Philly. Because I got to tell you, if you become an electrician -- and I can speak for that -- if you're working specifically SEPTA work, that's a lot of heavy pipe laden work that any apprentice would want to know how to do. Now, it's not something that happens a whole lot, but it could really fine tune them to become a good 2237 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET master mechanic and have a good field of expertise. The other stuff you can always learn. But if SEPTA can't take responsibility and if the federal government tells you you're only responsible for this much -- and I venture to say a lot of the minority participation in my guess of the world is minority supply houses. Does that count?
You could, depending what supplies you have. But we have steel manufacturers, steel fabricators, so we have DBEs that have significant, meaningful positions in that contract.
Is there a way that SEPTA or us, as a body, or maybe the State or the federal government can tighten that up? I mean, enough is enough. We should be getting people that live in those neighborhoods and people that have a different complexion than mine into them trades and it should be happening. And it's happening, but not fast enough for anyone in this room or probably anyone listening to this. It has to happen. And it's not totally all SEPTA's fault. But if SEPTA, being the agency that's getting Frankford and West Philly probably -- Congressman Borski brought all that money to the table and I remember -- you said 2238 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET some figure, 79 percent was federal money. If the federal government can't step in and say, "Look, this is where it is, and this is where it has to be in 5 years, this is where it has to be in 10 years," because we can picket the building trades and we can do whatever we want to do, but it's still not going to do anything unless there are young people that have a taste of that maybe through some of these charter schools. Believe me, that's not an easy job. It's not an easy job for a young man, let alone a young woman to be out in the cold on a SEPTA site bending pipes, getting your hands dirty. It wears on your body. That's why I'm so short and ugly from doing that for all those years. It takes a long time. Again, there's women, I'm sure, who want to be in that. How did we get to this point? I mean, it's not SEPTA's responsibility. But it is. It's not my responsibility. But it is. And it's your responsibility and everybody's in this room. And we come here year after year. And I sit back for seven years and watch this go on and go, "You know what? Now, it's time. It's time for us all to sit back and see what we could do." 2239 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET I don't know if Congress has to make you do more things. I don't know if the building trades itself has to do better recruiting in the neighborhoods. If I was 47 years old -- I'm 47 years old -- there's no way I could start going through apprentice school, work every day in the cold, go to apprentice school at night, raise a family of young children, and expect to do well. It's a lot easier when you're 20, 21, 22, years 11 old. It's not easy when you're 45, 46, and 47. 12 Although there's no age requirement. 13 So, my point of all this is, what can we 14 do? What can SEPTA do and how can we help you? 15
Needless to say, I've been 16 thinking about this one myself. Because I agree 17 that the issue itself is bigger than just SEPTA. We 18 have just over the last two or three weeks started 19 pulling what we view to be -- I wouldn't call it a 20 coalition, because it hasn't gelled into a 21 coalition, but there are three or four other 22 agencies that have construction jobs going on, et 23 cetera. So we've met to kick some things around to see what can be done differently. Part of our dilemma has to start with 2240 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the federal government because they don't have to tell us to do something. They need to give us greater flexibility in order to do something, so there really does have to be some basic rules and regulations that have to get changed. But it also is a combination of, how are we training. How are they accepted in the trades. How are the trades selecting them for assignment to jobs, even. So all those items. And while we can be a player, it is an issue that is significantly bigger than just at SEPTA.
And, you know, another thing that amazes me is the federal government can ban a contractor from bidding on any SEPTA work because it's federal money because they may have cheated somewhere else in the country by not paying the Davis-Bacon Act, but they can't ban them by not doing a minority and women participation. That boggles my mind. And I'm sure there's greater minds than mine down in Washington that should be figuring this out. Thank you for your honesty. And if there's anything I can, or anything we can do, please keep in touch. Maybe we could have some kind 2241 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET of study group that can look into this. And finally, once and for all, maybe by the time I'm out of Council, which may be sooner that later, we can sit back and watch this, what happens. Thank you, Ms. Moore.
We are kicking some things around that over the next couple of weeks hopefully we'll have something similar to what you're saying, so we'll keep your name close by.
At this time, the Chair recognize Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Ms. Moore. When I came in -- and I apologize for going back over some of this territory. I believe you were responding to a question from Councilwoman Tasco, and I did not understand a part of the response, so I need to go back over that. I continue to hear you make reference to 18 percent. This was in a colloquy regarding contracting. And I could not figure out what the 18 percent applied to. So could you go back to that area and explain that, please? 2242 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Yearly, as part of our reporting process to the federal government, we have to develop a DBE goal. We send it in probably in September, October of every year.
The goal is percent. 9 Out of that 18 percent you can satisfy that goal by 10 a mixture of one of any 10 DBE categories. 11
African American male, 14 African American female, white female, Asian, 15 Pacific. So you have different ethnic groups that 16 fall in the definition of DBE, small businesses 17 minority businesses, et cetera. So we establish 18 that any of the dollars we are going to use for construction and construction-related services would be 18 percent DBE goal.
It is a goal developed by SEPTA. We look at our own vendor list. We look at our DBEs that have been certified. It's more 2243 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET complicated than that, but I like to do the simple way. Then we sort of estimate what we think our construction dollars will be for that next year and we say, based on everything else and the formula, about percent of that should be for DBE firms. 7
I think expenditures would 10 have been about $160 million. $140 million. 11
And how does the 12 amount that you're going to expend play into the 13 equation of what your goal number is? What does the 14 one have to do with the other? 15
Well, you have to have some 16 basis on how many dollars you think you're going to 17 award or spend during the year or you don't have any 18 idea of what to apply the percentage against. So every year -- as part of our normal capital process we look at on a cash flow basis what we expect to expend throughout the organization for a year. Part of that, I guess, forward-looking is what we expect to spend in capital dollars.
I understand that. I guess I'm still trying to understand the concept 2244 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET of how much you have to spend influences what the actual goal is. How does the one affect the other?
Well, it doesn't necessarily change how the goal is set. It is applied against the dollars we expect so we can get some flavor for the dollars that would be expended.
Let me go back again, then. Where did the percent number come 10 from? What is that based on? 11
Internally developed, based 12 on the vendors that we have and we have all these 13 special little codes that they have. I don't know 14 whether that would mean anything for you. But all 15 these folks are being broken into different 16 specialties. You take those specialties and you 17 look at the DBE firms that we have identified within 18 those areas of specialty and you just compare the two. So depending on their relationship --
Excuse me, Councilman Nutter. I guess the question Councilman is asking, posed another way is, are you doing the same type of 2245 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET development work every year and is it the same amount of availability of minority contractors? Why is the percent flat? Is the work the same? Is 5 the availability of contractors the same? Why is 6 there a flat number of 18 percent? 7
So the availability 10 of minority contractors does not change from year 11 to year? 12
Well, given the scope of 13 work that we had with the biggest piece of dollars 14 expected, the Market Elevated, the scope of work 15 pretty much dictated the general nature of the 16 primes. 17
When the original 18 contract was let, it was at 18 percent and so it has not changed under the contract, although the availability of minority contractors may have changed during the course of the contract?
The 18 percent is an Authority goal. That is not a contract goal at all. So we have a big umbrella of an Authority goal --
Is the availability 2246 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET of minority contractors on transportation-related construction increasing, decreasing? Is it flat? What is it? I think that's what Councilman Nutter is asking.
That's a part of it. I mean, I still don't understand where the comes 8 from, versus 19, 20, 14. I mean, just where does 9 that number come from? 10
Why is it a flat 11 number? Is it based upon the availability of 12 minority contractors? 13
Okay. I have Cecil Bond, 14 who is going to give you more information about 15 DBEs. 16
My name is Cecil Bond. I'm 17 Assistant General Manager of Business Services. 18 In the Minority Business Program, we set an annual goal every year. It may fluctuate between 18, 16 and 15 percent. The way the goal is set is we look at the number of contracts that are going to be awarded -- we think are going to be awarded the next year. We also look at the number -- we have a database that tells us the number of vendors that may bid on those contracts. Then we look at the 2247 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET number of certified firms that can perform in the various disciplines for those various contracts. So for an example, if there was an escalator being installed, there are very few minority firms that we know of that are in our directory that would qualify to do escalator work. On the other hand, if there's demolition, those types of disciplines, then we would set goals based on those disciplines and the dollar amounts assigned to the various disciplines under each contract. And each contract is reviewed based on the disciplines that are available and then based on the number of minority firms that are available. We try to match those firms that are available based on the dollar amount of the various disciplines in the total contract. So each contract has a separate goal. We don't have a standard goal that we set on all contracts. So we review each contract. Our Small Business Department reviews every contract. We determine the number of disciplines, we determine the dollar amount of those disciplines, and then we find the number of minority firms that are available to perform in those disciplines. And there's formula on how the goal is calculated. 2248 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
That figure varies between 400 and maybe 500. A lot depends on -- some days it's just like a telephone directory. You have people whose certification expires and has to be renewed. We do have a database. It's all computerized. We send notices out to all the DBE firms of every contract that's going to be bidded, for which they have an opportunity. If those firms are named as a part of the bid package, we will notify the DBE firms that they've been named for this particular discipline of work and for this particular dollar amount on every contract.
They have to be named as part of the bid package. It's a participation schedule that is --
How many of the 400 to 500 firms participated on SEPTA contracts last year?
I don't have that number in front of me, but we can get that number for you. 2249 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I would be afraid to guess. But I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 contractors.
No. The 18 percent is an 10 Authority goal. That goal takes into account 11 professional services, small procurements, et 12 cetera. So it's an overall umbrella Authority goal 13 that we aim, as an Authority, to satisfy. 14 In addition to that, we have a 15 contract-by-contract goal established, and that's 16 where it goes in with specific DBEs. 17
I understand. Let's 18 stay with the overall Authority goal of 18 percent. What was the actual performance last year?
Eighteen percent. We satisfied the goal. I'm sorry. And that's one the items that's been requested that we're sending over.
Is that a coincidence? Is that by sheer luck? Is that by magic? Your goal was 18. You met 18. 2250 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Very good. I mean, just as we kind of play this out, is it possible that if you had set the goal last year at 20, you would have possibly hit 20?
But the goal isn't arbitrary. The goal is developed from bottom up. So it's a realistic goal of expectations for what type of services we are going to be doing or contracts we're going to be awarding the next year.
So from your perspective, it was just excellent estimating and analysis that allowed you to set an percent goal 16 and you hit it at 18.2? 17
I'd love to say that by 18 itself. But it is also a lot of people working really hard to make sure that four contracts, all DBE firms that we know about, we send information. We have a Small Business Unit that's actively engaged with our small business enterprises. We also have a really active certification program, so that group is always trying to certify new small businesses. So it's a lot of effort that went 2251 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET behind it too, not just the estimating process.
Well, I understand that. Why don't we just take a chance this year or next year, and say instead of the 18, make it 20? I mean, I thought a goal was something that you are -- I mean, it's a little possibly beyond your grasp and that you really push the system and push an envelope to make something happen. I mean, are you saying that it's maxed at and that there's just not 11 enough work force out there to do anything more than 12 18 percent and it is what it is and we should just 13 accept it? 14
For the goal that was 15 established, for any of the goals we establish, we 16 also as part of that process must submit it to the 17 federal government for the federal government's 18 review and approval prior to implementation. So they review the way we compile the information. They do a critical check of whether or not we have been too aggressive or not aggressive enough, et cetera. So it's a pretty regimented process that we have to send to them.
Well, I understand that. So are you saying that if you sent them 20, 2252 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET because you were going to push hard for that and the feds went through all their analysis and said, "No, it's 18." What are they going to do?
They'll tell us it's 18. If there's no basis for the percent, if I just 7 pulled the number out of my hat, and said I want a 8 25 percent goal, and I send it to them, and I don't 9 have the basis for forming 25 percent, they will 10 reject the goal. They will also freeze our funding. 11
Is this based on 12 Executive Order that you reference in your 13 testimony? 14
What is that based 16 on? This is on every SEPTA contract? 17
The DBE goal itself, the 18 overall DBE goal that you're talking about? 19
It is a SEPTA goal that we developed that is based on federal guidelines.
It's not just an Executive 2253 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Order. It's in the statute.
I'd like you to forward to the Chair a copy of the statute. So you're saying that SEPTA's contracting guidelines are established by federal statute?
I'd be very interested to read that. Your testimony, though, also makes reference to an Executive Order. How does that come into play?
The Executive Order is the order where the federal government establishes certain goals itself. You know, we mention that there are contract goals that we establish. But then there are goals that the federal government establishes on behalf of all transit users, minority work hour goals. And those are the goals that are mentioned --
Work hour goals. That's at 6.9 percent and then at 17.3 percent that's 2254 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET referenced in the testimony.
I saw that. Is that for the whole country or is that just for Philadelphia?
Yes. Anybody that takes federal money, especially Federal Transit Administration Money, follows those EEO goals.
If they have construction dollars, they should be following the same goal.
So regardless of jurisdiction, regardless of the demographics of the population, there's one set of goals for the entire United States of America on federal construction projects?
That is my understanding. Again, this is for EEO. This is for minority work hour goals, but yes.
Right. This is based on the Executive Order you referenced in your 2255 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET testimony?
Yes, sir. I'm saying yes, but I'd be shocked if I cannot. But, yes.
No, it's not. That's why I say I'd be shocked if I couldn't send it. So, yes. Yes, I can.
How many contracts did SEPTA let last year for professional services, supplies, services and equipment, and Public Works contracts?
I have no idea. We'll have to get it to you. We have a vendor file in excess of 4,000; 4,500 vendors. We'd have to pull that for you.
And this was the $140 million that you made reference to earlier in terms of contracts?
The $140 million is construction-related dollars. 2256 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
So the entire amount of contracts would be more than $140 million?
You may have been asked this before. You'll tell me if you have. I'd like to see a list of all of the contractors working on the Market Street El project; who they are, what service they're providing, and the amount of their contract.
Yes. I'd also like a list, not by name, but by Zip code, of the people working on the project, as well. You've made reference to neighborhood employment goals and a wide variety of other pieces of information. I'd like to be able to make a determination of the total number of people from Philadelphia, as well as non-Philadelphians, if you have non-Philadelphians in the file, I'd like those further delineated by whether they are in the Pennsylvania suburbs or other states or jurisdictions around us. Are their people from other states working on the SEPTA El project? 2257 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Councilwoman Tasco, I believe, earlier asked you about participants in the DAP program, which is highlighted in your testimony, as well as TOP/WIN. How many people last year came to SEPTA through the DAP program?
The training for those programs just started November, December of last year. So we have not had a graduating class yet from either one of them.
This is not the first time you've used the program, is it?
Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Councilman Nutter. With respect to the DAP program, are you saying that you can only access the individuals that are coming out in the classes being trained now? Because my understanding is, there's approximately 2258 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET 150 people -- and there could be more -- that have already gone through a rigorous training program for various trades. Could you not access those individuals?
For the DAP. What I'm saying is the classes that have been identified based on the outreach that we've received just started in November. DAP does have an ongoing program.
Correct. Of which there have been a substantial amount of graduates?
You don't have to way for the existing class to graduate when you already have individuals that have graduated through the DAP program.
And one of which was in my office earlier this morning who's looking for work. And I can give you resume before you leave. It's my understanding that there's pool of individuals who have gone through that process that should be able to be accessed now, and you not have 2259 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET to wait until the current class graduates.
For DAP, yes. I think the question, though, was what's the track record for those programs. We can provide information, obviously for those programs while we're looking at it. But DAP has a separate program that, yes, can become eligible for work on Market Elevated, but DAP has to give you those statistics.
Maybe I misunderstood the question. I thought Councilman was asking about -- correct me, please, Councilman, if I'm incorrect. I thought the question was, in this process, how do you anticipate accessing individuals from the DAP program. And I thought your response was, that there's a class that's being trained by DAP currently and you anticipate soliciting individuals from that class once they graduate. My response was that we've already had a number of individuals who have already graduated from the DAP program, so why don't we simply access those individuals who have graduated and are seeking employment opportunities?
And you can. I thought the question was, what is our track record for those 2260 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET two programs. And with the programs starting November or December of last year for our particular sections, we don't have a track record yet because they're still in class. DAP does have a track record and DAP can place individuals in their apprenticeship programs, et cetera.
Councilman Nutter, I have a follow-up to Councilman Darryl Clarke's question. Your response was, yes, you can use individuals who have successfully graduated from DAP in the Market Street Program, correct?
Of individuals who 2261 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET have already been through the program and are currently employed by one of the contractors currently on the Market Street SEPTA project?
And if there is some reluctance to give it to us, we'll put the request that they send it directly to Council, if there is some hesitation.
That since DAP is an agency outside of SEPTA, we can make the request to them. If there is some degree of hesitation on their part, we'll ask that they provide the information directly to Council. I don't know why there might be, but they're not our agency, so we can't tell them, you must give me this information for me to send it on.
But DAP is not my program. So, again, I'm going to make the request and I'm just giving you a hedge that if for whatever reason -- 2262 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
This is the Market Street Elevated being run by SEPTA?
What's the level of involvement? I guess I'll ask that question. Your testimony says, through the initiatives of local elected officials, two outreach programs for construction employment opportunities have been established for the Market Street El project. Diversified Apprenticeship Program, DAP, offering job preparedness testing for individuals seeking access to union apprenticeship programs, and the Tradeswomen of Purpose/Women in Non-Traditional Work, TOP/WIN, which helps community residents with little or no construction labor skills to get job training. Now, what's SEPTA's role with either of 2263 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET those two programs in ensuring that people who come into those programs, or people who access SEPTA directly have an opportunity to participate in any projects, whether it's Market Street El or -- I mean, you guys do other construction work besides the Market Street El.
I'll start it and then I'll pass it over to Francis. I just want to, again, remind folks that throughout outreach we take a group of names -- well, I won't get into that detail. I'll let Francis do that. But both TOP/WIN and DAP are agencies separate and distinct from SEPTA.
I'll let Francis talk about involvement level and the coordination level.
I'm trying to follow this. SEPTA has engaged into a relationship with DAP and TOP/WIN?
They are two separate 2264 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET agencies where they are responsible for training. The dollars, their funding, are separate and distinct from SEPTA. So we have a coordination effort. We coordinate. We collaborate. But TOP/WIN is responsible for its program. DAP is responsible for its program. Their funding is separate and distinct outside of SEPTA.
So I'm curious about the provisions of the partnership, of the arrangement. What is the obligation for DAP to provide you with skilled, trained individuals who then win an opportunity to be employed in the SEPTA contract.
Francis Jones, Assistant General manager at SEPTA. The funding that they receive from DOT dictates -- or in the contract that have was let through DOT there's a specific number for the period of time that the contract is in place. That that certain number of people have to go through the training program and have to graduate and come out on the end. And I think the initial number in the initial contract is something like 33. Now, we worked along with the community and the number that 2265 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET we came up with for training was approximately 100 individuals would come through a construction skills kind of training program for the life of the project. So 33 was the number that DAP applied for and got funding for through DOT. So as a result, we interviewed any number, probably somewhere around 250 people and the list was further culled by people who were no longer interested, got another job, didn't want to do the training, or whatever. And they've come up with the number that they need to begin the training. Even as training and they started the initial training, some people have dropped out of the program. So that's the number that DAP has. TOP/WIN had another number because their funding came through Philadelphia Work Force Development Corporation. Now, what our responsibility is, is to monitor them. We go to the site. We've said it -- I personally sat in on the interview classes. I sat in on some of the training at TOP/WIN. We have not observed the DAP program as of yet, but there is a relationship. In addition to that, the program manager has a person that is also monitoring to make sure 2266 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that the numbers are constant so that we reach our goal at the end of the process.
So there is an intensified monitoring component, both internal at SEPTA and through the program manager, as well as through CCI. So it's multileveled to make sure that the training is going on.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess what I was not taking from the earlier responses -- and I'm not sure about the most recent one -- is I'm left with the impression -- and you'll correct me if I'm wrong -- that SEPTA is taking the posture that, well, that's either DAP's responsibility or that's TOP/WIN's responsibility and we have some kind of relationship with them, but is there an obligation or ownership of this particular issue by way of SEPTA? Because the earlier responses were, we don't know what the numbers are and we have to get that information from 2267 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET them. I mean, they're supposed to working on your project. It seems to me that it would be imperative of the agency to have that kind of information on your project. But for your project, they're not doing work. So, I mean, is there an ownership of this particular issue?
That's why I said, we'll get that information. I don't have that with me, but we can get the information.
Were their people from either of these programs on other SEPTA projects prior to the Market Street El?
We've planning for this project for some number of years. We did a small pilot project training project on the Manayunk Bridge and we had five people go through a training program through TOP/WIN. Out of that five, when the project ended, there were probably three people that went through the entire training. That's the extent of all training programs that we've had thus far at SEPTA. 2268 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
What's your goal or expectation for how many people are going to go through the program based on the $567 million capital investment on the Market-Frankford El?
The commitment, I think, that was and programed within the capital budget was a hundred full-time equivalents over the life of the project.
A hundred people would be on the Market Elevated Project during the life of the Market Elevated project.
How many people will work on the Market Elevated Project during the life of the project? This is eight-year project?
It's going to be over 2007, so five plus, I guess, the two years so seven, eight.
I mean, it started 2269 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET '01, late '01, early '02, right?
So how man people do you expect in total will work on that project for eight years.
I'll get back in touch with you. This one, I'm really shooting from the hip, but over of the life, probably no more than 500 jobs or 500 people. One major contract has --
Only 500 people will work on the Market Street El for seven years.
Who were the four professional services contracts under the DBE participation from your fact sheet?
We can send you detail, but they would include Baker Associates, Portfolio Association, Advantage, and Contract Compliance.
And who were the three, at least on this sheet, although your testimony I think indicates four, major construction packages. What were the names of those companies?
I have to get back to some notes. But it would have been like ATC -- and these 2270 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET are abbreviations, that's why I'm hesitating, to see if I can get something without the abbreviations.
ATC Automatic Train Control, the Guide Way package, Cobbs Creek package, and the Station's Package. Those are four major construction packages for the Market Street El.
I understand that. I'm asking for the names of the companies. Your fact sheet and your testimony indicate that three or four major construction packages were part of your DBE participation to date of and a half percent. 13 I'm asking, what are the names of the companies? 14
We can give you the detail. 15 It's a complete listing to come up to the 24 and a 16 half percent. We can give you that complete listing 17 or send it over. 18
Let me go back for 19 one second to this hundred full-time equivalent. So 20 your testimony is that you expect of the 500 people 21 working on the project over the seven to eight-year 22 life, 100 of them will come through either DAP or 23 TOP/WIN is that your testimony? 24
But you said you're 2271 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET not picking those people up until the come out of the current class; is that correct?
Just that piece that started November. That would be this class that started November. For those DAP that occurred prior to November, they are eligible and might very easily and very well already be on the project.
We will double check. In the information that's been requested, they wanted a listing of all of individuals that are participating on the Market Elevated.
I have two last questions. With regard to the Market El, the issue about keeping some lane of traffic open in order to help prevent all of the businesses on Market Street from going out of business, what is SEPTA prepared to do to provide some relief to the business people up there?
Francis actually had a tour, I guess, yesterday and some additional stuff on Friday. But what I've asked my engineers to do is sort of recap for me to see was it feasible. And there are some serious safety concerns about opening 2272 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET up a lane. But Francis can also give some of the examples of what saw when we went out yesterday.
We were actually out in the 6000 block of Market Street yesterday with a reporter from the Daily News as well as our teem that's working on the project, the program manager as well as our internal people. And what we found particularly in the 6000 block of Market Street, we've always had the street opened for emergency purposes. We're required to do that according to PennDOT and to the City of Philadelphia when we had to go for our permits. But there was a commitment to make sure the street was open if anyone had to get deliveries, if there were special events, or whatever is going on, that the fence could be pulled so that someone could get through. In fact, yesterday, there was a delivery that was occurring on Market Street where the big beverage truck was parked on the street. And we looked at that as a perfect example of if the street in fact was for through traffic that would present a problem because the street would be blocked. There was a car also that was parked on the corner. So that street would have blocked for through traffic 2273 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET because of the beverage truck as well as the car on the corner. We walked that entire block to look at the possibilities of opening up a lane. And with the range in motion of the equipment and how the equipment was staged, as well as the materials that are necessary for the construction work that we're doing now, it appeared to be almost impossible in that particular location to open a street for through traffic.
I appreciate your perspective. Let me share mine. There is a current construction project going on, I believe, on -- I don't know whether it's Route 202 or some part of the expressway out near King of Prussia. I think most of us lived through and survived the reconstruction of the Schuylkill Expressway. We had at least two lanes of traffic closed. The entire bridge was closed for a while and then they opened it up once they were able to get one lane on the City Avenue bridge. If we can reconstruct the Expressway and not shut it down to traffic -- because I don't think the folks in King of Prussia would like it too much if PennDOT closed the Expressway for a couple years while they did the 2274 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET reconstruction; it might have a little impact on the couple malls out there -- it seems to me that we should be able to keep a lane of traffic open for the folks on Market Street because as beautiful as the El will be when it's done, there won't be anybody out there. And I don't necessarily believe that it's good public policy to put people out of business while we're trying to beautify their area. So somewhere between the Police Department, the Streets Department, and SEPTA -- and maybe you could actually increase your neighborhood participation goals if you picked up some of the neighborhood people, trained them properly and helped them in traffic direction, we'd be able to -- you know, I wasn't out for yesterday's little tour around, but I did have staff there. Whether it's the delivery truck or somebody else's truck, I mean, the goal is to try to keep traffic flowing and moving. And there will be deliveries from time to time. But if you put everyone out of business, you won't have to worry about moving the gate because no 23 one will get any deliveries, and then you won't have to worry about clogging up traffic. I mean, what is the goal here? I 2275 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET thought the goal was to dramatically improve the area, move from a double-bent system to a single-bent system, but not put people out of business from 57th Street to 63rd Street in the meantime. We're working at cross-purposes here, it seems to me. You know, they'll be printing T-shirts out there soon talking about they were one of the few survivors of the SEPTA El Project. It cannot be in the interest of public policy to virtually put everyone out of business over the course of a seven-year period while you're trying to improve the community. Something's got to give, and you guys -- and I'll be glad to work with you on them. I'm not just throwing it back in your lap, but a plan has to be developed to keep traffic moving on Market Street to allow these business people to stay in business. They will not survive the project. So unless you're prepared to set aside some money to just buy everybody out of their business and welcome them back in 2007 and then give them a grant to re-open their stores, I think we have to figure out a way to keep traffic, keep it safe for the people are working. Everyone 2276 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET understands this is a complicated project, but it is not impossible. Let me remind you, 34 years ago we sent two people to the moon and brought them back safely. It seems to me that we can reconstruct the El and not put everybody out of business. It can't be impossible. That's not an option.
We'll be willing to work with you, between the engineers of the City and our engineers and do some briefings.
We will coordinate tomorrow to set up a briefing session to begin the dialog.
Thank you. Ms. Moore, my last question is, is it possible to get an answer -- because we have been around and around on this -- the question about the three trolley stops for the No. 10 Trolley on Lansdowne Avenue? You have to accept one premise. I will not go away. I will not stop asking about it. I am relentless in getting answers to questions. Accept it. Give me the three stops back. And I'll leave you alone. And then we can go 2277 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET talk about the Market Street El and keeping the traffic open. This issue will never go away.
And I recognize that. I've actually delayed this one myself. Staff had given me answers. There is one huge intersection that I will tell you for that safety reasons my inclination is no. But part of our annual process, we were actually looking at service levels, et cetera, and two of the stops are being considered.
What's the intersection that's the problem? There's 58th and Lansdowne where there is a traffic signal because I had that installed; 62nd and Lansdowne where I believe there is also a traffic signal; and 63rd and Oxford.
I think it's that one, because there's one where there's a big intersection and there's no traffic signal at. This one I have held up. It's been on my desk for about three weeks and I have not processed it. But staff did give me an answer, and they also reminded me that your are relentless and I probably should have brought the package over with me today.
It would make your 2278 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET life a lot easier.
I will make it point of getting the information over to you before the end of the week.
That would be great. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. Just one quick follow-up to the earlier questions because I don't understand this 18 percent issue. In your testimony you indicate that the 18 percent is by virtue of an Executive Order on the federal level?
No. The 18 percent is a goal we establish yearly to send it into the Federal Transit Administration, and that is the expected 2279 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET goal that we have Authority-wide that's construction, non-construction, small purchases, et cetera, that -- I'm going to use the word "target" --
No. No. The Executive Order is just for construction. The 6.9 percent, the 17.3 percent, separately than the percent. 11 The Executive Order is only for work hours. The 18 12 percent is a DBE percentage, and those are dollars 13 expected to be expended to disadvantaged business 14 enterprises. 15
So the Executive 16 Order speaks to person hours on a contract and not 17 necessarily for any particular trade; it's across 18 the board in terms of the trades.
So there some 18 percent reference by the federal government?
Okay, I'm sorry, 17.3 percent. 2280 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
As established by the federal guidelines, i.e., the Executive Order?
How is that determined? And you may not be able to answer this question. The reason I'm asking that, is there some flexibility? When you're talking about an Federal Executive Order, I'm assuming that any project that receives federal dollars, I'm assuming in Salt Lake, as an example, they will probably have a difficult time reaching this goal, I think.
Well, maybe not. If there are American Indians, Asian Pacific.
So they take into account across the country all of the opportunities for all the various --
I just wanted to make sure I understand that. Operations. I was asked to asked you this question by several of my staff members who have the pleasure of riding SEPTA to and from work. In the most recent snowstorm, they had some 2281 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET difficulty in getting into the bus stop. And apparently there was no strategy in place for snow removal for all of those various bus locations throughout the City of Philadelphia. We hope that we don't have to suffer that burden again of trying to remove snow, but in the event that we get another snow storm, what's the game plan for removing snow from the corners where we have bus stops?
These cut-outs, the cut-out/pull-ins for buses? Or are we talking about --
I'm assuming it's just any corner that has a sign where you catch the bus, cut-out, cut-in, bump-out. I mean, where people have to catch the bus. There was an inability to go to those locations and it appeared that there was nothing was in place. As a matter of fact, it was to some degree the problem was increased because the snow plows from the City were piling things up on the corner.
Let me make sure I understand. If you went to a bus stop, the shelter was clear, the street was clear, but you couldn't get between shelter and the street? Or are you 2282 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET talking about the cut-out.
Nothing is clear. Couldn't get to the shelter, couldn't get to the cut-out, couldn't get to the bus stop. So you either stood in the street or you stood on the porch and tried to run and catch the bus before it pulled off.
Now, snow removal for the streets -- and I assuming this bus stop is on the street.
On the street, but the stop itself where the pedestrians are, the people who would ride the business is on the sidewalk or in the shelter or in a cut-out.
I don't how Mr. Bond knows this piece of information, but we have 16,500 bus stops. If you're talking about clearing it on sidewalks, obviously you can't reach that within one day.
Well, the Mayor talked about how many miles of street he had to plow, so the fact that you have that many bus stops, I mean --
Well, it depends on where 2283 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the bus stops are. If the bus stop is on a City street, Philadelphia is responsible for the streets.
I'm talking about the sidewalk where the people have to stand. You can't get to the street where the bus is if you can't access the sidewalk where there's a bus stop or there's a bus stop shelter or there's a cut-out. It's a simple matter of having to traverse the street, the sidewalk, then get to the stop then get to the bus. There was no accessibility.
I'm not trying to make excuses. I think your point is well taken, and we probably need to look at that. But I think Philadelphia should be proud, even though we were not perfect. The State of New Jersey close their transit system entirely. The State of Delaware closed their transit system entirely and there was no transportation provided. Now, that doesn't excuse --
I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying to you is, it was an unusual snow. We very seldom in the last four years 2284 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET have had that much snow.
It's not the first time it's happened. I don't see any strategy. We've had several snows this particular year, and my understanding is that on each one of those occasions, there was no strategic plan in place or it appeared not to be where snow was cleared from those locations. I understand the 20-inch thing. It was abnormal.
There is a plan in place. Our top priority becomes for the system itself, the platforms, et cetera. For the City of Philadelphia where we have bus stops, many of those bus stops are on City streets and that part becomes clearing.
I'm assuming all of the streets are City streets. I'm talking about the sidewalk.
That's what I'm getting to. The shelters are owned by the City of Philadelphia as well. Now, the what SEPTA did on Tuesday or Wednesday, one of those days, we actually throughout the City of Philadelphia, dug paths between the 2285 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET shelter and the street so that individuals could get that. But, again, with 16,000, we concentrated down Market Street, Chestnut Street, Walnut initially. And then we sort of span out. So, yes, there is a strategy, but it did point out to us that if there's ownership of the shelter and ownership of the street, there was still some question about who owned the walkway between the street and the shelter. So we did it this year, but it also pointed out to us --
So it sounds like to me that the City of Philadelphia because they own the shelter and the street that they need to sit down with you to work out a plan on making sure that there's access to the shelter and subsequently the bus.
Right. This year we did it, but it did dawn on us that there was a gap in the plans that we had.
It's interesting. 2286 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET You really have to be a scientist to figure out on some days who does what. You know, inches from 4 the track. I called to report a pot hole the other 5 day, it was like, honestly, making a reservation for 6 a cruise. How far is the pot hole? It's so 7 confusing that I would hope that some day SEPTA and 8 the Streets Department and PennDOT would sit down 9 and try to work out something that really makes 10 sense. 11 I was driving up -- what motivated this 12 point of order, I was driving around 30th Street to 13 head out to West Philadelphia the other day, and 14 there's a gentleman living in one of the shelters. 15 I mean, he had everything in there but a big screen 16 television. Now, I don't know whose responsibility 17 it is to make sure that we don't have people setting 18 up housing in your stops, but I would hope that your drivers, your supervisors on street have a process, and we're talking about process here, of reporting -- the reason I'm bringing it up, I mentioned this to someone and they said, "Oh, yeah, he's been there all winter." So I would hope that a supervisor or a driver that sees someone setting up shop in one of 2287 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET these shelters -- and again, that is very confusing. You really need sit down and talk about all these nuisance things and whose responsible to fix it. Explain to me. The trolley used to 6 run for years in Germantown. I think the only thing 7 today is sometimes a little trolley in Chestnut 8 Hills. Why do we still have tracks? 9
We can't get a general 10 consensus whether or not to have trolley service or 11 discontinuance of trolley service so, therefore, the 12 tracks are still there. 13
Councilman, that's a 14 little beyond the scope of the question. 15
I'll come back for 16 that. I was just trying my strategy to see if it 17 worked. It, obviously, did not. I was caught. 18
It's real 19 interesting way of jumping ahead of your turn, 20 Councilman. 21
I'll come back to that. 2288 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
23rd and Race, what was the route, Ms. Jones? I can't remember. The bus route down there?
Okay. It's either 121 or the 44. But we know what you're talking about.
There was an issue about a line being taken off service during particular hours. That particular line service, a number of locations, in particular the Riverside Presbyterian Homes where we have more than senior citizen or disabled residents. At the time, we thought we made a case based on the residents in our investigation and our analysis that we should maintain that route. We were told that it would be more productive, more cost effective for the route to be shifted to 30th Street during those particular hours. I'm assuming that there was and analysis done since that's what was promised at that 2289 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET particular time. I want to thank SEPTA for providing a van, although I must tell you that the van has now cost Riverside more than $60,000 in repairs, so that in itself has not been a very cost-effective gift. We're currently seeking an opportunity to get some support there. What was the analysis done on the shifting of the route to 30th Street as opposed to continuing the 23rd and Race stop?
I will tell you that the boardings and one of the gauges that we wanted to look at the number of boardings and de-boardings that occurred at 30th Street, and those numbers have increased. We can send you the details.
We would have looked at boardings just recently. We just pulled out some recent information as an update.
There was a change in the route at a particular time. We were told at that time there was going to be an analysis done 2290 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET because we didn't believe that the information was provided by SEPTA was accurate.
So the initial analysis? I thought you were talking about the number boardings analysis afterwards.
I'm talking about during the period of time for the last two years. It was argument made by SEPTA that if they shifted the route it would be more productive and cost effective in terms of ridership at 30th Street as opposed to 23rd Street. And I'm asking has that analysis been done?
The answer is yes. And there are more boardings at 30th Street than there were before we detoured bus.
Well, obviously if you now have a bus going there, there are more boardings. The question is are there more boardings than there would have been if you had continued to have the route on 23rd and Race. That was the argument that was made.
Well, we didn't have any boardings at 23 and Race area that compared to the boardings that we're getting at 30th Street. I'm 2291 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET not sure whether I'm answering the question.
Ms. Jones, can you respond to that, please? You're a little more involved.
We have done an analysis, but we don't have the information with us right now. I know initially there were the meetings that we had and the hearing we had at SEPTA as well as the hearing that we had at 23rd and Race where the seniors were quite upset and expressed their concerns about not having the service there. We'll get those numbers to you.
I want to see the information on a timeline when the route was redirected to 30th Street, the increase in ridership as you sit here today during that timeline versus the ridership at 23rd and Race.
You're welcome. 2292 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET At the request of the witnesses, we're going to take a five-minute recess. (Brief recess.)
Good afternoon. I think I was next to ask some questions. I'd like to ask you a question about the percent. I guess you want to know what's the 9 issue around 18 percent. Is there any rule or 10 regulation that would prevent you from exceeding 18 11 percent? 12
You mean from the actual? 13 Can actual payments to DBEs be in excess of 18 14 percent? 15
So I guess the question becomes, how did you arrive at 18 percent?
There is a formula and process that we have to follow. When we send the 18 percent -- the report that we send into the federal government, when we send that over, we do a narrative to talk about the process that we undertake to develop the 18 percent. 2293 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
No, no. Two separate and 5 distinct processes: 18 percent businesses; 17 6 percent people. So they are not the same. Separate 7 and distinct. 8
My point of 10 information is, are you saying that the federal 11 government limits the expenditures for minorities to 12 18 percent? 13
No. That's what I said, it 14 is not a ceiling. We can exceed the 18 percent. 15
In actual payments. We can't have a goal higher than 18 that we can't support, but we can indeed through payments, et cetera, exceed the 18 percent.
Why does the law prevent you from having a higher goal? 2294 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
There is a process that we have to follow. It is based on the vendors we have, the certified DBEs that we have.
Isn't that a requirement of at least percent. I just can't 7 believe that the federal government would say you're 8 only entitled to spend 18 percent for minorities and 9 disadvantaged people and that anything above that 10 improper. 11
That's not what I'm saying. 12 We can in actual pay in excess. If we have a 13 contractor and that contractor comes in and he has a 14 miraculous 40 percent DBE, we can have a higher goal 15 than 18 percent in reality, in actual payments. The 16 goal we establish at the beginning of the year is 17 based on a federal rule and process. So that is a 18 goal of 18 percent. But at any point in time if we all wonderful and everything works out, the attained goal can be in excess of 18 percent.
18 percent is a goal of whatever you're trying to strive for set by the government, says you can't have less than that. 2295 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET They didn't say you couldn't have more than that.
They set a formula so that you will meet that minimal goal, right?
What is you effort to increase that goal? Do you sit there and say, "Well, it's percent today, we've got to do 18 10 percent"? 11 Why can't you say, "I think we want 20 12 percent or 30 percent"? 13
Again, we have to do -- the 14 over all goal of 18 percent is set -- 15
You're going to 16 meet 18 percent. That's the law. The commitment is 17 to get to more than 18 percent. We're trying to 18 increase more people in Philadelphia doing business with our agencies. What is the commitment of the agency to increase minority participation? That's the bottom line. Not just to meet the 18 percent, but where is the commitment to be more inclusive of the diverse community that exist in this City?
Part of what's built into that 18 percent, each contract is reviewed and it's 2296 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET done on contract-by-contract basis. Some contracts we have a percent goal; some, we have an 4 percent goal, others, we have a 19 percent goal; 5 others, we have 23 percent goal. 6
Not necessarily the amount 9 of contract, but the availability of DBEs to do that 10 particular scope of work. So when it all rolls 11 together, we would love for it to be in excess of 18 percent. For those agencies or those contracts that are having difficulty meeting their individual contract goals, that's where the individuals in our DBE unit or our small business unit work with vendors to encourage them. We have an active certification process, so we try to get more DBEs certified. So there is ongoing and active participation trying to make sure we, not only meet the goal, but the goal is as much as we can do. But it is developed contract by contract.
On of your of your testimony you talk your outreach programs and contractor recessions and meetings for prime and subcontractors to talk about the various projects 2297 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET and the contract practices. And after all of that outreach, how many minority majority contractors, contractors who could do the job as a majority as a contractor without being a subcontractor? Have you identified -- and have been certified? Do you do your own certification?
Based on what parameters? You develop your own guidelines?
No, it's federally -- we do our own, but it's based on federal guidelines that we have to follow.
After all of this outreach and contact, how many contractors, minority contractors and subcontractors have you identified that you have on your roster that you could, if you have a contract, go out and promote and ask them to bid on this contract?
I'm guessing. I think it's educated guess, but about 500. We have 500 vendors that --
Councilman Goode. 2298 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I think Councilwoman Tasco may have been asking how many minority contractors qualify for your process as prime contractors?
She wasn't talking about subcontracts. I think she was asking how many qualify as prime contractors.
We do a certification that is not about qualifications of the company to perform as a prime contractor or a subcontractor. Our certification is measured by ownership and stock ownership and control of the company. And your question, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, is how many minority contractors bid as primes. And we've had very few in the construction where minority contractors have been and been successful as prime contractors. I'm sorry. My name is Cecil Bond, Assistant General Manager of Business Services.
I think part of that question also, how many inside of the 18 percent goal, whatever goals you set how, many minority 2299 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET contractors have you anticipated filling the role of a prime?
Selection of minority contractors is based on the prime contractor who wins the bid. So the prime contractor bids on a project, whether it be minority or non-minority. If he's the lowest competitive bidder and he names minority firms to participate in that contract with him.
You don't start the minority participation process until after the prime contractor is selected; is that what you're saying?
The prime contractor selects the minority contractors, right, at the time of bid. They must submit the names of all the minority firms that are participating with their bid package. We identify firms that can bid on the project or can participate with the prime contractors way before the project is bidded.
Essentially, you're saying -- and I'm trying to really anticipate what the Councilwoman is saying. She's saying you don't anticipate that minority firms are going to get prime contractor work; you're not anticipating that. 2300 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Your minority participation process starts after the prime contractor has been selected.
We can't anticipate what minority firms are going to bid the projects.
I'm assuming she's saying within the percent, whatever goal you set, 8 17, 18 percent, that you're not anticipating 9 minority contractors becoming the prime contractor. 10
But you're not 12 anticipating it in he goals that you're setting. 13
Minorities could -- it's 14 only based on, again, the scope of work and the 15 certified DBE firms. 16
I guess the 17 question I'm really trying to ask, how many minority 18 contractors who could be prime contractors have you identified through your outreach program? How many subcontractors have you identified through your outreach program who could be subcontractors to prime contractors?
Now I think I understand. For the subs, we have increase -- and they're easier because we have increased the number of subs 2301 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET because as they come in and we do the networking sessions, they have also put their paperwork in to become certified. So those we can actually with the passage of time track to give you those firms, that number. For primes, that's harder because you have to anticipate that you have some minority or disadvantaged businesses that will grow or mature to the point that they can become the prime. And in this outreach that we've done over the last year, we have not identified any of those individuals. We've had one vendor who had indicated that he was going to potentially try to be a prime for the stations bid that's out. But again, that's out, so we don't yet whether or not he's going to propose as a prime.
Who monitors the your project and the relationship between the prime contractor and the subcontractor?
If there is a dispute between the subcontractor and prime contractor, who in SEPTA is there to provide the mediation role, to play the mediation role to work it out? Or is there such a thing?
I wouldn't necessarily call 2302 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET it a mediation role, but we have a DBE unit, we have a procurement unit. And those areas are responsible for dispute resolution. Now, what happens is because the sub and the prime have a contractual relationship, there are certain limitations to what we can do. We can, obviously, bring them in. We can tell them they're messing up our project. We can give them all sorts of reasons for them to resolve. But if it's, say, a quality of work and the prime isn't accepting the sub's work, then it's really up to the prime because we hold the prime responsible. But those two units that I mentioned are the primary ones within SEPTA for dispute resolution.
What is your role in the -- I know, again, it's a contractual relationship. You have a subcontractor with a prime contractor. You pay the prime contractor; they don't pay the sub. What do you do about it?
We modified our standard form contracts in such a way that there is now a contractual obligation that once we pay them, they have 15to 20 days that they have to pay the sub. Again, because of the contractual relationship we 2303 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET have the prime, the check must be made out to the prime. But we are also with tightening up of our own contract, we're pushing those requirements down to the prime so that the sub get its money faster.
I've been working in this area since 1971 when I was with the Philadelphia Urban Coalition, and we're no further along now than we were back then in terms of this whole issue of minority participation. And I dare say that the faces of the people who sat before the Council in the '70s and '71 did not look like the people who are sitting at that table now. The question I ask is, what is your commitment to removing the barriers to allow for minority participation? And there are ways that can happen. And how serious are you about overcoming the barriers that workers, contractors, subcontractors face in participating in this market? Because it seems that every time something progresses, a rule changes. Those of us who are in these agencies and have the responsibility and who have the power to change the system, I ask what is the commitment?
I will tell you that from a 2304 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET SEPTA perspective, to show you our commitment, even with our own hiring we've moved from a population that was 45 percent minority, we're now generally 56 percent minority. We have actively participated in all the networking sessions and all the other get-togethers. We are actively introducing primes and subs and just sort of periodically checking on those relationships. We do believe a diverse work group as well as a diverse population of vendors, et cetera, is the best way to handle business. And that is our commitment. Now, in addition to all that, as you mentioned, the rules change. And unfortunately, when you're receiving a big piece of your money from the federal government, you have to adhere to those rules. So sometimes those rules sort of limit some of the things that we can do. But we are committed to a diversified work force as well as a diversified vendor list.
Yes, I have many of them. May I first point of information is to 2305 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET ask how long it's intended that the hearing go on today? Because I know that there are members of the Community College that have been here a long time. And unless we're going on indefinitely, I think the Chair ought to consider whether they ought to be excused until a later date. Because I know I have a whole series of questions of SEPTA. I know Councilman Rizzo has. And there may be others who also have. So that's the point of question. I have no idea of how long we intend to go. With respect to SEPTA, firs, what do you know about Ogontz Avenue? You saw the pictures in the Daily News yesterday. It happens that the area between Nedro Avenue and 65 Avenue happen to be in the 17th Ward where I'm the democratic leader. For years we've been fighting. We've been told that SEPTA just refuses to do anything. They refused originally to remove the tracks so that a decent re-paving job could be done, as a result of which, the City or the State -- we're never sure who -- did some kind of patch work paving which leaves these huge craters, practically, right next to the tracks, within inches of tracks and SEPTA does nothing. Now in addition to that, we suddenly had bicycle signs 2306 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET posted so that everybody is compelled to ride on the car tracks even though nobody uses car tracks. SEPTA hasn't used them in years. So can you tell us what is SEPTA's role in this?
I will tell that when you say the paper, I left it with my engineers because I didn't see this morning. I left it with my engineers and they're supposed to be telling me something when I get back to the office, whenever I get back. What I've asked them to do is just research our role to make sure of our roles and responsibilities. And they're supposed to brief me on that when I get back to the office.
Well, can we get a promise from you that you will be subject to recall by City Council to be questioned on that? It isn't enough for us to have you briefed by your staff. It isn't enough for us to have you write us a memo enclosing the briefing by your staff. What's important is for us to begin get answers. That's been a problem for years. We hear again that somebody -- we don't know whether it s the State or City is supposed to do something beginning first it was March, now it's may. We have know idea because 2307 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET we went through the same thing last year and nothing was done. But we'd like to know why did SEPTA not pull the tracks up originally? Why did they leave this in such a deteriorated state because you have drivers on road every day, and it must be doing a lot of damage also to your buses and that's a big public expenditure. So do we have your agreement that you will be back here to tell us about the situation on Ogontz Avenue at the call of the President of the Council.
Now, I will tell you on the first part, we did not pull up the tracks because there was always the ongoing discussion about whether or not trollies would be back on that area or not.
Well, I don't know where there was discussion. No one ever discussed it with me. And I think I've been there since the 17th Ward was founded in 1965. There's never been any effort by SEPTA to raise the question with me or with any of the community organizations in the area. 2308 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET So maybe there was a question in somebody's mind somewhere, but if you find information about that, please do, because the people have never raised -- I've never heard the question raised by residents of the area asking that trolley tracks be reinserted. I was told that SEPTA decided it was too expensive to pull up the tracks and they weren't prepared to do the necessary repairs. I'd like to know if that's true or not and whose decision it was why nobody's done anything about it since. The place is really a mess to drive. It's very dangerous for, not only the residents, but for incoming traffic from the suburbs because that road carries, you know, from the Old York Road outside of the City all the way into the City. So we'll expect to you ready the next time this hearing is scheduled. Now, with respect to the main question, you know, it's about 30 years that we've been discussing in City Council the question of employment discrimination in the City. It's outrageous. I don't know what word -- you used the word "monitored." I haven't the faintest notion of what you mean. But I'll tell you what I sense from 2309 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET your attitude. Monitored means this is an excuse so we don't have to do anything. As long as we can create some paper trail indicating somebody else has some responsibility, then we monitor. I don't know "monitor" means. To me, if SEPTA was at all serious about getting these goals actually fulfilled, they would have not a monitoring to watch, they would have a team of people there working with every contractor saying, "Now, how are you going to ensure this minority attendance? How are you going the ensure that there's a capable work force? Don't you need special training for this kind of worker?" Do you have an analysis -- I'm asking now this question directly of you. Do you have an analysis of how much money you spend for the kind of labor that's involved in prevailing wage structures? You're bound by prevailing wage laws, aren't you?
And the prevailing wage laws at the federal level, at the State level and at City level. How much money last year went for construction that involved prevailing wage rates? 2310 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
We'll have to get that for you. I don't know off the top of my head.
And we're going want to know, in addition to that, what the percentage of the minority employment was in the work force that was involved in the prevailing wage rate, because it seems to me that when governments guarantee prevailing wage rates to any group, they absolutely have a responsibility to make sure that those groups are following democratic policies in employment. And in Philadelphia, for years we've been trying to get the kind of diversity that will produce a work force in all the construction projects that resembles the population of the City of Philadelphia. And the public sector has the greatest responsibility. You're not meeting your duty, I say respectfully, if all you're doing is hiring a company that somehow has been certified as a DBE company and you just kind of watch them. I think you've got to have a team ready to step in at any point and say, "How do you guarantee that you're going to have this work force. You know we're not limited to paying you only 18 percent. What are you doing to increase the minority employment in your 2311 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET firm?" They don't have to be minority entrepreneurs; they're fine. But the companies that are not minority entrepreneur-owned ought also -- I don't believe that these DBE rules apply only to minority firms. I believe that they apply also to firms that are not minority owned. I think the work force there has to be representative and diverse. Is that your understanding, or do you believe that only minority-owned firms have to hire minority and disadvantaged workers?
No. The definition DBE has small and disadvantaged and minority firms, so it's other firms as well.
Other firms as well. And I would like to know what you mean by monitoring. What is the staff? I'd like to know how many members you have in the staff that are fully assigned whose sole jobs is to guarantee the diversity of the work forces.
Of the individual contractors and subcontractors. Because we know the 2312 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET games that are played in the field. We know that there are many forces at work that work against diversity of the work force. And they will use whatever slack you give them to avoid meeting their responsibility, though on the service if you're only monitoring and watching paperwork, sure, it's easy to formulate paperwork that shows compliance with goals when in fact there isn't goals. We know, for example, in some places the apprentice program -- first, it's very difficult to get into. Second, when you get into it all kind of discouragements are thrown in your direction. And third, if you survive, then you get the worst work assignments so that when the ultimate outcome comes, there's hardly anybody available for work. What do you mean when you said during the time that you have different percentage based on the availability of work? You said some contractors have only 5 percent workers DBE workers so you have to make up in another way to get that average of 18 percent. What do you do about the company that only has 5 percent? How do you get them up to the 18 percent? We'd like to know those kind of answers. 2313 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET And if you can't answer them now, I'd be willing at the next hearing to expect you to have answers to those so we can engage in a meaningful discussion. Because it seems to me that SEPTA itself is playing games. It is going through the motions of making people believe it's interested but that it isn't interested really. Because if you were interested, you'd roll up your sleeves and would get to work and we would have diversity of work force. And you would take the steps necessary to see to it. You're a powerful agency. You have lots of money to spend. And you are paying these prevailing wage rates and you have a legal responsibility. So would you like me to begin raising the questions now, or do you feel you're going need more time to get that information? I will accept either answer.
I'd like to clarify something. The percentages that we mentioned are not work hours. They are not minority individuals. They are firms. We have two separate goals: We have an EEO goal that deals with minority work hours; we have another goal which is a DBE goal. The 5 percent and the other percentages that I 2314 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET mentioned were reference to DBE firms, because the scope of work for one area might only have a 4 percent goal because that's all the DBEs that might 5 function in that particular scope.
Well, do you go and -- suppose you're told by a company, "We can't find any minority employees"? Do you immediately sit down with them and say, "Let's work out a program of training. Let's get our outreach program working before anything else is done. Before we can give you a contract, we've got to make sure that you've arranged a change so that your DBE rate is a much higher rate than the 5 percent"?
For DBEs, the firm itself, if they come back -- if a prime comes to us and the tell us they can meet the 5 percent DBE, we have a unit that sits down with them and gives them potential companies for them to consider.
A list of firms for them to consider. Remember now, there's DBE firms and those are the items that I referenced before. The firms, not the people. 2315 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Let's assume you're doing some work and every firm reports percent or 4 less. What does SEPTA do to increase the numbers? 5 What does SEPTA do to help the company in the field reach that goal? Or do you just wash your hands of it and say, "That's not our problem. We'll try to make up the percentage somewhere else"? That's feeling I get that SEPTA does not accept any responsibility whatever. You work with what you find existing and try to put together a patch work that enables you to feel that if you're questioned by a legislative body at any of the three legislative levels, you'll have a satisfactory action. And I'll have to tell you the answer I'm hearing today is totally unsatisfactory. It's a very poor record, it seems to me, for a public agency to have the kind of record where all they're doing is monitoring other firms instead of developing programs where necessary to help those firms achieve the goals that SEPTA is suppose to by law achieve. Your comment, please.
Again, I'm trying to make sure that there is an understanding. The percentages that we mentioned are for DBE firms. 2316 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET The references that you're making are for the individuals that work for the firms. For those firms, they are responsible for their hiring. There are no goals that we have for that individual firm that says --
We can't place goals on individual companies for thier hiring goals.
You're not allowed to place goals and say that there has to be a fair percentage of diversity on every construction job that exists? Of course you're allowed to do that. Except SEPTA refuses to accept that responsibility.
Only under the Executive Order. The question that you were asking before, if a firm comes in and they have a hundred employees. I can't tell that firm that 50 of his employees must be minority and 50 people must be majority. What I can tell him is if he's on our project that there is 6.9 percent female goal of work that he has to do and 17.3 percent of the work hours have to be for 2317 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET minorities. But I can't dictate to him what the complexion business would be.
Well, how do you meet those goals that you said if there's only a 5 percent.
The 5 percent was merely an example of a DBE percentage. It was not supposed --
Suppose the company has 5 percent. How do you get from that company the percentage you said you can say to them that you need? How do you get 18 percent women and 18 percent other minorities from a company? How do you get those work hours from them if their work force only consist of 5 percent?
The 5 percent is not a real. The 5 percent was merely a DBE, Disadvantage Business Enterprise, the business itself. It had nothing to do with the minority hour requirements for the projects. Those percentages are called EEO percentages. Those percentages are reflected as 6.9 percent for the Market Elevated and --
The complaints we get in City Council and groups of individuals come in here and say they go to the work sites and they just 2318 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET see white faces everywhere and that seeing a woman's face or a minority face is a rare thing at a SEPTA construction site. Are you telling us that the people are not telling us the truth.
It might be the truth for that day. The population of workers changes daily. There are some workers that are back room operations workers that might be minorities. There are others that are in the hole, and maybe people are looking differently. But we have people that monitor, they actually go out almost every day now. They are taking a head count of minorities on that project and on that site.
We'll send you the report of the number of minorities, the work hours, the trades, how many are in what zip code. We'll send all that over.
Councilman, if I may have your attention for just a minute please. I think that Community College has been waiting here all afternoon. There are a number of Councilmembers 2319 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET that still have question of SEPTA. And I think that there have been a number of questions that have been asked of you today. If you could prepare something in writing for us with your response.
I'm not finished, Councilman. And we'd like copies of your 11 responses please so that every member could have a 12 copy of the responses. And we would like to have 13 you come back at another date when you're much more 14 prepared to respond to the many questions that the 15 Councilmembers have. Would you be agree able to 16 that? 17
I'm agreeable to the coming back. I don't care about written reports because written reports, as has been made clear at this meeting, cover up. They don't reveal information, they cover up.
Councilman, before 2320 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET you came in I think there were many Councilpeople that had questions. I don't know that they were answered to their satisfaction. So I am asking that the responses be put in writing and we will have a call back date for SEPTA to return and you can ask as many questions at that time as you choose that were not answered satisfactorily in the letter.
That will be agreeable. But I would want to add one other thing. I will be raising the issue of why haven't you taken the steps to provide that the school children of Philadelphia ride free transportation to and from school so that we don't have money problems causing youngsters to be away from school? That was going to be a major question I was raising. We've raised it over the years. We've never gotten decent responses. But often families have to choose which child goes to school this week because there isn't enough fare money. And I would like that also to be included among the questions to be asked of SEPTA with responses from them.
Thank you. 2321 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET At this time the Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you. And would you also see what you can do about deferring that Thursday meeting, because I understand your guy out there has put out flyers, and let me know.
The Chair at this time recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. I would ask as you prepare your reports, the pie charts are very instructive and given us a big picture of where you are with a number of your initiatives and specifically as relates to Councilman Nutter's questions around minority contract and percentage Philadelphia and percentage female. Pie charts help break down the narrative piece, so if you could include that with your backup information you will be providing, that will be helpful. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you very much. And we will notify 2322 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET you of the date and time you're to return. Thank you so much. At long last Community College. Thank you for your patience. We appreciate your staying. Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record proceed with your testimony.
Good afternoon, Madam Chair and members of City Council. Thank you for providing us with an opportunity to address this distinguished body. My name is Rhonda Cohen and I have the honor of serving as Chair of the Board of Trustees of Community College of Philadelphia. My colleagues on the board are dedicated, civic, and business leaders who represent a broad cross-section of Philadelphia. Each of us gives our time because we recognize the importance the of Community College of Philadelphia which provides access for many residents who might not otherwise earn a degree or even consider continuing their education. With your permission, I would like to introduce or at least mention the board members who are or were present day. Christine James Brown, Dan Mackelhatten (ph) and Dorothy Sumners Rush. On behalf of the Board of Trustees, I 2323 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET wish to express our appreciation to Mayor Street for recognizing the work of our faculty, administrators, staff, and students. The City support will help accommodate the growing number of workers who will need new skills sets to remain employable as well as the students who seek to transfer into the region's prestigious four-year universities. This past year, the college also expanded its work force development and corporate education programs with the opening of its Center for Business and Industry. Community College of Philadelphia was founded in 1965 and opened with an enrollment of 700 full-time and part-time students. This past year we were the higher educational institution of choice for a growing number of students. In an enrollment survey conducted last fall by the Philadelphia Business Journal, Community College of Philadelphia ranked first among educational institutions in this region. Over 46,000 residents enrolled during the 2001 2002 year, and the City's financial support was crucial in serving them. The college provides Philadelphians with a blueprint for their careers. One way to judge an institution's success is to 2324 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET evaluate the achievements of its alumni. Charlie Pizzi, a man who has made his mark on the corporate landscape currently is President and CEO Tasty Baking Company is an alumnus. So are State Senator Dwight Evans and US Representative Chaka Fattah. These are merely a few of our former students who have a powerful effect on the City's economy and quality of life. We have made quality education and student-centered service top priorities so busy students have greater flexibility in scheduling and registering for classes. At this time I would like to introduce Stephen Curtis, President of Community College of Philadelphia who will present the formal testimony to Council.
Thank you very much. Mr. Curtis, if you would summarize your testimony, I would appreciate it. And we will give your copy to the stenographer and it will be transcribed in full.
I'm Stephen Curtis, 2325 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET President of the College, and I thank you, President Verna and Members of the City Council for the opportunity to speak with you today and to answer any questions that you might have. In the spirit of making it brief, I'll say that included in the written testimony that we provided I think is, first of all, an indication of how we in particularly in light of the economy are trying to meet the needs and priorities of the City and the residents of the City. You've heard Board Chair reference the number of students that come to us for various reasons, whether it's to pursue degree programs, for work force training, for adult education, literacy programs, we think that all of these are part of the broad mission that are so important to us. I've mentioned in the written testimony three or four specific examples of new initiatives that we've undertaken in support of that mission. One was the opening of our new Business and Industry Center. And again, that's described so I won't go through that right now. But it will enable us to expand our contribution to economic and work force development in the City and the region, both 2326 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET actually on site at the new center, but also it becomes a visible symbol of what we do elsewhere on site with various companies around the area. We mentioned in the written testimony Opportunity Now, a program which offers one tuition-free semester to any Philadelphia resident who has been laid out from full-time employment. We started that last year. We're continuing it this year. And to date, we've had more than 400 residents take advantage of that program. We mention in the testimony our dual administration programs. For those students who want to move into the baccalaureate level, we now have an additional to our many articulation agreements six specific dual admissions programs. And the universities and colleges are name in your copies. Which means that by virtue of being admitted to us and then completing the degree, they're guaranteed admission at the junior level to these institutions often with scholarships. Since 1997, over 3,000 students have participated in those programs, those administration programs -- many more have transferred -- but that means that they can achieve a baccalaureate degree at basically half the 2327 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET cost. The written comments also speak to our expanding programs with the public schools. We talk there about the dual enrollment programs where high school students can take college courses for credit. A variety of other programs that we do in the public schools. I'm not sure it mentions our newest effort. We're working with the School District now and we'll attempt to pilot this coming fall what we call a Four Plus One Program, and that is in four years of high school and one full year of college, by starting the college courses early while still in high school, in those five years we would seek to have a student graduate with a high school and a two-year associate degree. That's in the works now. We'll pilot that this fall, and then hopefully expand it to a number of other high schools in the coming years. We cite some specific examples of students who've gone through programs like the Biomedical Technician Program that leads to, not just a job, but a real career path that makes a difference. We cite another example which is not a 2328 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET credit program, it's a training program that we do with CSX. And the specific students cited, after the five-week program taking the CSX exam and like 99 percent of the other students that complete that program then are put into the job begins at an estimated salary of $41,000. So we try to give you a number concrete examples of where we think we're making a difference for the City and residents of the City. 4 million.
We appreciate very much the Mayor's confidence in us and we accept that as a sign that we are indeed moving to meet the needs and priorities of the City. These are difficult times. At the state level we expect no increase of any kind. We continue not to have chapter monies coming from the State, so these are tight times for us. And again, in the document we've tried to cite both how we're addressing that through cost efficiencies, but also some of 2329 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET challenges we face which will not be unknown to you, the normal contractual salary obligations, the rising cost of health insurance, and the like. So having said that, knowing that this is a difficult scene in front of us, probably for the next several years, at lease, we believe that the college is part of the solution to the issues that the community faces. We think we make a tremendous difference in the individual lives of the individual citizens, both looking at them as employees in the work force, as taxpayers, and as citizens who really do bring citizenship to all of this as well. So for all of those reasons and everything detailed, we would appreciate your support and hope that you will support this budget request. We continue to be committed to working with you as a Council toward making our residents productive, not only in terms of the work force, but as I said in terms of citizenry and make their education at our institution a real investment on the part of the City. Thank you. I will be happy to answer any questions. 2330 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Thank you, Mr. Curtis. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. It's seldom I get the chance to jump start this. Congratulations on the opening of your new center, because I think it's a progressive step that suggests you're changing with the times and with the needs of the City. The tuition-free semester that you talk about, how is that publicized, about its availability.
When we first did it a year ago, we actually had a public event that was co-hosted by the Chamber of Commerce. We had the Director of Commerce from the City there. We had a full page in one of the major newspapers that was part announcement and part application. So it went out to thousands of residents across -- I guess tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, whatever the daily circulation is. Since then, we try to find a number of avenues. As an example, I spoke before the Chamber of Commerce again within the last couple 2331 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET of months and my focus was work force related initiatives. That was one that I brought to the fore. With any company that we worked with for training, we are able to facilitate training dollars from the State for the company. When we meet individuals that we know are associated with the company, even if we're not working with them directly, we try to put that out. So we have a variety of ways that we try to put that out there.
When you speak of the Chamber, does that include the African American Chamber as well as the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce so that they too are aware?
We notify all of them, yes. That particular session that I just described was for the Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce where I spoke to them. But we make that information available to everyone, yes, ma'am.
Very well. I know of your aggressive efforts with regard to diversity of faculty. Can you give us an update on where you are with that currently, some of the initiatives that you've --
Oh, some of the 2332 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET initiatives, I'm not sure I can quote all the percentages in terms of the update right now. We have done a variety of things over time. Some of it has to do with the way we develop the pool of candidates because once you have the pool together, you have a set group from which if you hire you basically are going to select. So we've put a lot of our efforts into the development of the pool. We have a stated set of procedures which we ask every department, whether it's academic or non-academic, to adhere to. We examine the pools before we allow the interviewing process to go forward. We examine the plan for disseminating the information about the job search, not just advertisements in newspapers but reaching out in some cases to graduate programs where we know we might have some capability of identifying persons of color who could apply. We continue to have our minority fellowship program. And someone will correct, we had four minority fellows last year, of that number -- how many were hired? Two of the four.
A year-long program. And in most cases where there's not a hire, it's because they have other choices. They go on to post-doctoral programs or take other positions. But out of fellows last year became part of permanent full-time faculty.
Could you please forward to Madam President a brochure or literature that talks about the Minority Fellows Program.
If you had to identify one, two, or three top areas where CCP will be impacted by the Governor's new budget, what would they be?
One will be student tuition. Another will be -- it may not be as specific as what you just asked me, but our capacity to handle what we view ill be the additional enrollment. So that means being able to create enough classes, but also the services associated with those. It's not just having enough instructors in the classroom, it's making sure you have enough 2334 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET people working in financial aid, or providing --
That's right. And we feel that not only is the economy going to drive some more students toward us, which is typical of the community college sector, but as you listen to some of the potential tuition rises in four-year institutions, probably a certain number of those students also may turn for the first two years to us. So it's in the general ability to handle students as opposed to an individual area like faculty or something else. It's just that general ability. The other area for us is capital. This is the second year in a row we receive no capital from the State. In the current budget as it's been approved halfway, the so-called bear-bones budget of the State, again, there's no capital. That means anything we do, we have to absorb a hundred percent ourselves. It limits what we can do in terms of a number of just capital purchases we need to make, equipment-wise, and so on. So that's probably, I would say, another major area where you'll see the 2335 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET impact.
What is on line maybe the next two or three parties as it relates to the Philadelphia School system. You've mentioned the Four Plus One initiative -- having been out of higher education for a long while, is that novel? Is that a new phenomenon? Is that happening nationwide?
It's starting to. It doesn't exist in many places yet. But it's an attempt to integrate the curriculum at the high school and the college levels and, as I say, basically to accelerate some of the programs. The premises is the first two years of high school are all high school courses, the next two years are a combination of high school and college, and then the fifth year is fully college. That's the four plus the one. But it means the curriculum really has to be integrated. You have to make sure that the preparation has been done properly even those first two years, as an example, in math or science or whatever it might be. So the areas that we're looking at initially are technology-based programs.
That sounds 2336 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET exciting. My final questioning is around, as I'm you are aware, the troubling concerns raised regarding part-time staff and what that means in terms of benefits and the like. Discuss where the university is with reckoning with that concern.
I'm not sure exactly all that's implied in your question. But in our last contract negotiations which finished about a year ago, we wound up providing a larger pay increase for part-time faculty than we did for full-time, and I think that was with the accession of every group involved, the agreement of every group involved.
Excuse me. Point of order. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
I am really sorry, but I think Councilman Mariano and Councilwoman Blondel Reynolds are going to some questions that I have about part-time employees which we're very concerned about. I have to leave now. But I think those questions have to be asked and, hopefully, the corresponding answers can come forward from your side. Thank you.
And I'm sure if I 2337 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET miss any, my colleague Councilman David Cohen will surely take up the back. Continue, please.
Your question is dealing mainly with part-time faculty, right?
When we go through a negotiation period, as we did a year ago, that's a time when we also examine -- we do this more often than that, but certainly at that time -- how our pay and benefits match in terms of other institutions because that's a benchmark, I think. And we are consistently in the top tier, I'm talking about the top four or five in the area in terms of part-time pay. I think our benefits are at least that good, if not better. So that is our goal, to be in that top tier when it comes to compensation and benefits for part-timers.
Top four or five community colleges or -- 2338 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
No, no. Institutions. Four-year too. We look at a variety, we don't just look at community colleges.
Do you believe that part-time faculty impact the quality of education or not or why not.
Well, again depends how you look at it. We consciously hire part-timers in many cases because they bring an expertise that we don't necessarily have resident in the full-time faculty. You get into specialized areas in some career fields. As an example, you may not have enough courses to offer a full load to someone who teaches in a very narrow aspect of a particular field, in paralegal or the health fields or whatever, but you want that expertise from the field. So that's a very positive impact, and I think it's quite purposeful. In terms of the overall quality, we assume and expect that the level of performance in the classroom is going to be the same for adjuncts as well as full-timers. And we would expect the departments would assure that that is so.
For my own understanding, define the difference between 2339 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET part-time and adjunct.
And am I hearing that the opportunity has been missed because the contract happened how many months ago? Help me out.
And that's a one-year, two-year, three-year contract?
Very well. Thank you for your testimony. I'm certain my colleagues have additional questions. Thank you very much for your testimony. Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Mariano.
Thank you, Madam President. Councilwoman Brown asked at the beginning of this question, but I'm going to go a little bit further. Is it true that the salary rate for courses taught by part-timers is less than 50 percent of that of the full-timers?
I don't think so. I think on the average adjuncts get about 70 percent of the 2340 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET entry level rate for full-timers.
Can you send us some examples, like not with names or anything, but someone that's like a full-time English teacher gets so much and then what a part-time English teacher is getting.
Well, remember now, it depends also on seniority and so on. The very entry level for full-time is about $34,000. Though many whom we hire start out actually a little bit above that.
Can you break that down for us? I guess if a full-timer is there longer, they actually get more money.
So the part-timer state at a certain rate and works up?
Could you break that down without -- I'm not interested in names. I just want to know.
No, you don't have 2341 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET to do that now, just get to her writing when you get a chance, okay.
Some of the people had to leave. You answered Councilwoman Brown, if I understood it, basically you're saying it's the union's fault because they did a contract before and it's tied in and you couldn't raise the part-time salaries even if you wanted to.
I'm not sure if "fault" is the word I would have used in any of this conversation. I'm saying that everything we pay is contractual.
So you're not paying a penny less or a penny more than the contract?
And that contract is in what year of a five-year contract?
We're in the second year 2342 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET now of a five-year contract.
So you're not going to be raising them salaries until the contract is up, basically?
Now, let's go back two years of the contract. Was that a negotiation point of the contract? Was there part-time salaries as opposed to full-time salaries?
Oh, no. No. Somebody want to give me -- You're asking numbers now, but there's a separate union that represents full-time and a separate unit that represents part-time. COUNCIL MARIANO: I didn't know that. I should have known that. Okay. But you negotiate with both unions at the same time?
That must be 2343 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET horrible.
We do all of it at once. Some level of coordination, too, obviously, discussion among the various units and so on. But we literally negotiate separate contracts with each one.
Is it a combined negotiation? I mean, you sit at the table with both leaders?
My other question is dose Community College have to justify the use of its part-timers as compared to full-timers for accreditation? Does that have anything to do with it?
Typically not. Accreditation has changed. I'll give you one exception in just a moment. But for our general accreditation, it used to be that they counted things, the number of books in your library, the number of part-timers, the number of full-timers. That is not the emphasis anymore. The emphasis is on outcomes. Regardless of whether you're taught by 2344 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET a full-timer or a part-timer, regardless of whether you're in a career program or a liberal arts program, regardless of any of those things, what kind of educational product do you walk away with. What value has been added and how can you demonstrate that. So from an accreditation point of view, that is not typical concern. Let me give you the exception, though. There are some external accreditation bodies for individual programs, and I'll use nursing as an example, that have very specific ratios, including their expectation in terms full-time and part-time. And obviously, we meet all of those. But the general answer to you would be no. 16
I attended community college twice. I attended first when I didn't go to any college and I attended it later when I needed credits to make up, and frankly, Community College credits were being accepted from the college that I wanted to graduated from and they were cheaper and it was great and it's a great school. But at that time, we're talking in my 20s as compared to my late 30s, early 40s, I never realized the difference between the teachers. I 2345 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET really have to say that. You go, you sit back and think later, well, he was probably a part-time teacher. Some I knew because I knew what they did in thier other lives. One was the baseball coach that I knew from somewhere else so he was obviously a part-time teacher. But this troubles us. It troubles us because of the lobbying of the union, of course, the part-time union. And I can only speak for myself, for us to approve a budget, and I know you're under all kind of constraints because what's not coming from the State, what you're not getting from anyone else. We're three months out of an election.
Eighty-six days. Thank you, Councilwoman. (Laughter.)
It's hard for us to justify this when people come around. And we get a lot of calls, not just from the union. We get people constantly coming in our office looking to better themselves. And my office, we recommend go to Community College, you can't beat it. You still have the television courses? 2346 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Best deal in town. Best deal in town, especially for busy working people. So you definitely have a product that needs to be promoted, as you all do. I see you have some very credible people here on the Board, but we can't have this discrepancy from different groups as to salary, if you catch what I'm trying to say. And I know, you come in, they get you run an organization, a school, and you're doing a good job, but this is the kind of stuff that really gets Council in a rut. We can go on for hours on this. And Councilman Cohen hasn't spoke yet. I will probably be home having dinner by the time he's done speaking, I assure you because he's been at this for a long time. When you come in front of our full budget, something's going to have to be done there, because I can venture to say you're probably not going to have support to get all the money that we give if we can't at least have some kind of agreement or something that we'll talk about that, you know, within the realm of your contract with these two unions. I don't like to delve into things I don't 2347 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET know a whole lot about. I know a tad about this, not a whole lot. So teach us and help us, but help us help them. And that makes my job easier.
And we'll be glad to engage you in lots of conversation about this if this doesn't allow us time to kind of give you all the answers. Can I just also make one other observation? What we expect, just so we're clear of full-timers and part-timers is different. I don't think it's different in the teaching side. I think the quality of what we would expect in the classroom is exactly the same. But full-timers have other obligations that part-timers do not, whether it's curriculum development, whether it's participating in the life of the campus through committees, keeping office hours. None of those things are required of part-timers. So I just want sure that we're clear on that. The responsibilities are different. The expectations are different. And that has a piece to do with the pay as well.
And that's a good point. That's something I wouldn't know because I've never, you know -- thank you. Thank you very much. 2348 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I'm looking on of your expenditure budget and the $60 million for salaries. How much of that is set aside -- goes to part-time workers? How many part-time workers do you have?
In terms of overall, we have about 800 full-time employees. And I'm not talking about faculty now, I'm talking about employees in general, and about 800 part-time. That's in terms of our entire employee base.
Correct. That's not talking faculty now, that's talking across the board, whether it's tutors, all kinds of things.
Now when we talk about part-time employees, they are instructors or 2349 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET are they across the board, too.
How many full-time instructors and how many part-time instructors?
Yes, but they have to, I believe, have achieved a certain amount of seniority first, am I correct?
Jack Nuraskin (ph), Director of Human Resources. For certain benefits, there is a seniority requirement. In other words, you have to have taught for a certain number of semesters in order to be eligible. And that will vary with the kind of benefit. But once you become eligible, normally after about six semesters, I think, the average.
Yes. This is part-time 2350 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET teaching. Then we contribute to a retirement fund, percent which is matched by the individual. There 4 is money that we contribute toward health insurance. 5 There is money that we even tribute when you are employed elsewhere and have health insurance at that other employer, we contribute some money toward the cost of that health insurance. There is life insurance that is available. So there is a full panoply of benefits that are available to part-timers.
A comparison of the number full-time employees you have, their salary range and benefits compared to the part-time workers and their salary ranges and their benefits?
It should go to the President. The $400,000 you're getting from the City of Philadelphia, what does that buy?
In the broadest terms, it means at least a dollar and a half that we won't 2351 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET have to raise tuition.
What is the normal -- and I should know, but what is the average yearly or is there a yearly contribution from the City over and above -- is there a annual increment from the City; and if so, what is the average annual increment?
There is no annual increment. Each year we ask for a particular amount and then depending on the year, the City gives us X dollars more or Y dollars more. There is no 13 average.
Where does the balance of your money come from, tuition and fees? You ge million here. You have State dollars? 17
We have State dollars. It's supposed to be roughly a third, a third, a third, but we never get a third from the City as the local sponsor. And that's true for most community colleges. A third from the State, and a third from students. By Statute, we don't exceed the third on tuition. There are fees that would add to that third, and then we are creative and entrepreneurial to help fill in some of the other gaps. 2352 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
So the City does not provide the third that it should provide?
If the City provided you with the third appropriation, would you be able to hire more full-time employees? Is it a financial issue or is it an issue based on how you run how operate the college?
No. A part of it is financial. That's not the only financial need that we would have, though, just so I've said that. If you're looking at faculty, by contract 60 percent of all courses at the college have to be taught by full-timers. So that 60/40 is the minimum that we have to meet. And there are many community colleges that don't do that.
Sure. The faculty contract requires that at least 60 percent of all courses -- see it's not the numbers here, of raw numbers of 2353 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET faculty. You could a thousand part-timers, but if they're teaching one course each, that's very different than if they were doing two courses or three courses each. So it's the percentage of courses that are taught by full-timers over all that are mandated by the contract. So my answer to you would be if we had a fair amount of additional funds, that would certainly be one area that we would look at. But there are others. And I'm going to put student tuition in this again. Every year we have to raise the student tuition a certain amount. And even last year when across the State the tuition increases at many of the universities were double digits, we didn't hit that double digit percentage increase. So we always try to make that at the top of our list in terms of what we're able to do budget-wise. But I want to say, again, there are other needs across the college too. So my general answer would be, yes, but I just want to be sure you understand there's a larger context as well.
What are of the courses that the part-time teachers teach? Are they basic to the core curriculum? Are the courses they teach essential to the core curriculum for the 2354 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET students?
So if you have a full-time instructor, the students major in various areas?
So if they're majoring in math or science or something, math or biology, is there a limit on the number of part-time instructors they have exposure to or can have exposure to or could the entire course be taught by part-time?
Well, in theory that could happen. But in practice, that's very unlikely. Now, all this is driven by the department. This is an administrative -- it's not an administrative decision. Departments do all the assigning of faculty in terms of when they meet, for example, whether you'd have all the full-timers in the day as opposed to the evening, all that kind of thing.
How they distribute whether it's part-time or full-time.
No, that's a departmental decision. Let me rephrase it. Full-time faculty may choose when they want their schedules in general. So that's what it's determined by.
Well, if you had more money and you were going to appropriate it to instruction and you said that you would look at increasing the number of full-time --
We would certainly take into account, if this is the nature of your question, where we are stronger or weaker among departments, where that ratio is. That's what you're asking me?
But it's left up to the instructional side of the institution in relationship with you making that decision?
No. I was talking about which courses are taught and when. That's the decision that gets made in the department. How many of the full-time lines that we have where they're assigned, that would be an administrative.
That was my 2356 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET question before.
Not what courses that are taught, but how do you determine in a core curriculum of a course what courses would be covered by full-time and/or part-time?
That's the part again that is not a decision that is an administrative one. What we would be able to determine is -- let's say -- I told you we have 400 full-time faculty. As faculty retire or leave the institution, there's not an automatic replacement in a given department. Most of the time, that's the way it would happen. But if a department, for example, has declining enrollment, that wouldn't automatically be a given, so you do wind up shifting positions around. You do it on a number of bases. One is certainly student enrollment. Another could be the relationship of full-time to part-time. That is the numbers that you're inquiring about. Another can e that exception that I have gave to earlier question, that is, is there an external accreditation reason that says we have to do such and so. So there are a 2357 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET variety of reasons. We also respond to individual departments request of us. Despite the fact that our funds are not unlimited and we couldn't go out tomorrow probably and begin to hire tens and tens of new full-timers. In general, we meet many of their requests, the departments come forward with. I can even think of a time or two where we've gone to a department to urge them to add new faculty, new full-time lines. And in some cases that was done, in other cases it did not necessarily result in a new hire. And again, that's not so much an administrative decision.
So the departments pretty much decide whether it should be full-time or part-time?
I want to be sure I'm answering your question accurately. They determine which teaches which courses. That's what I keep hearing in part of your question. The number of full-time lines at the moment is finite overall. So if they say, we have 400 lines and now a request comes to make it 402, we may not be able to accommodate that. 2358 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
Thank you. Could you explain in perhaps a little more detail the difference in the work responsibilities of a full-time faculty member as against a part-time faculty member?
Well, as I tried to say earlier, the full time faculty member will have certainly a full load of courses. There are limits on the number that a part-time faculty member can teach. What goes on in the classroom, I think, is no different. But the full-time faculty are the heart of the institution in terms of how it runs. Out of full-time faculty comes curriculum. When we change courses, when we develop a new program, when you do all those things that you have to do to keep up to date, et cetera, full-time faculty have that is responsibility. 2359 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I'm having trouble understanding. How does full-time faculty meet that responsibility?
Because their responsibility is not to just show up for the given hours of a class. They're expected to be much more engaged in the life of the college. We don't count hours beyond that. But they're expected to participate in the life of the college, meaning, to develop curriculum when it's needed, to participate -- we're going through our accreditation self-study right now. We look for them to participate in that kind of effort. That's part of the overall faculty responsibility. They must maintain office hours. That is not a requirement --
But don't part-time faculty often meet with students too?
Absolutely, they can. But that's done in a voluntary fashion. That is not a required part of the contract.
The reason I raise the question is a number of years ago my wife had a part-time job. She wanted to re-enter the work force so she applied because she had a graduate 2360 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET degree in education for a part-time instructor's job at Community College. She was given an assignment of one course one day a week. You know, it took her every day of the week to prepare for that and to be available to students. Nobody ever told her she didn't have to respond to the students. She was a good teacher, like I hope that all of your full-time faculty and all of your part-time faculty are. She was conscientious. So it took five days a week to prepare for that one course. I think she got $2300 a year for that one course. It must have been about years ago. Now, in my contacts with the 14 part-time teachers, I find them every bit as 15 dedicated to the work, sometimes more so, but I 16 don't want to draw that generalization then the 17 full-time faculty because to live the life of a 18 part-time teacher, which today often requires them 19 because other colleges follow the practices of 20 Community College, often means that one part-time 21 teacher maybe working at two campuses, three 22 campuses, or four campuses. They don't regard this 23 as just a job of teaching. They all are very 24 concerned about their teachers. They're all very 25 concerned about their students. They're concerned 2361 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET about the quality of their work. So I think that maybe there is not a full understanding of the great contribution of part-time teachers make. Maybe they're not required, and I suspect you have no way of compelling a full-time teacher either to do all of these things, but I think there's an equality of response. A good teacher does what's necessary outside of work hours to make sure that their teaching is as successful as it can be. So I just wanted to state that for the record. I don't think that justifies it. And I think it merely is an attempt to kind of disprove the statement of equal pay for equal work. In a society where there is supposed to have been established the concept equal pay for equal work, it is troublesome to find educational institutions lagging behind social progress instead of being model employers. I had occasion to criticize a couple of weeks ago the President of the University of Pennsylvania for her notorious anti-labor position. Imagine a university like the University of Pennsylvania where my family six members have six degrees and I have two of them, how ashamed we are 2362 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET of the university when it teaches people to be against unions because they fight the efforts of graduate students to organize. Apparently, at Community College they passed that step finally. They were able to organize, but now they're seeking to get fairness of treatment. And I'm very disturbed that the Community College, which I fought for very, very hard over many, many years, is not a model employer but is dragging behind. I have to believe that things are as they seem most of the time. Seems to me the reason Community College uses so many part-time teachers instead of full-time is because it's cheaper. And I think that's the plain fact. It is cheaper. And I think that's why you do it, and I don't think that's good example. The part-time teachers have a right to be treated with respect, and I think that requires full pay for the kind of work they do. And I think everybody would be dealing with each other more honestly if they recognize that. If the load of a part-time teacher is quarter of the teaching load of a full-time teacher, I think that person ought to get one-quarter of the pay. I don't think the college ought to be the beneficiary of a part-time 2363 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET employment program because it makes the college do things that a college ought not to do.
It it ought to be a leader and it ought not to be lagging behind and pulling down economic standards. So I would urge you to do things. And I have to tell you the argument that you're bound by the contract -- of course, you don't have a law school, but you don't really need a law school to know any contract isn't a law that can in the never be changed. The two parties to a contract can agree at any time to change it. And therefore, I believe it would be quite easy to get the consent of the necessary unions to agree to changes in the contract if you find anything in it which you think prevents them from supporting equal pay for everybody, because that's their position. They're all united in this fight. And I believe that that's just a false argument Dr. Curtis. We welcome your initiative. You brought a lot of good things to the Community College and we're grateful for that. But we'd like it to be fully rounded and we'd like you to feel the responsibility for making sure that you play the role of model in the City as well. And if you did that and you said that the money would be 2364 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET available and you told us how much money would be involved, and I'd like to know what that figure is, what would be needed to make sure that instead of 400 full and 650 part-time, how many full-time teachers would you need to complete the work?
I don't know that we can do that right here, but we could probably come up with a number.
That may be that there are certain circumstances in which a few part-time teaches might be needed, but certainly the proportion is way out of balance. I can see you may try to an experimental teaching course, you don't know how it's going to go, how many students will be interested or what the success rate will be. You may want to have part-time teachers for that until 2365 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET the course establishes its ability to continually attract students. But I'm thinking of a steady pattern. I don't think any college ought to employ personnel at a level which compels those personnel people to people live the life that so many of these part-time instructors have to lead in order to survive. It was easy for my wife because at the time she taught I was in the private practice of the law, so the teaching to her was a liberation from a life of just dealing with four kids and it involved maybe her sanity, because men usually don't understand, but I think I came to understand somewhat the problem of women who stay at home with children and that's their circle of life, and she needed desperately a change. But for most of these folks that are part-time teachers, that's their life and I think we waist their valuable time and I think we treat them like serfs when they ought not to be serfs. They ought to be treated with dignity and respect, because I think they help to carry the college. My guess is your 650 part-time teachers teach almost as many courses as 400 full-time.
Well, that I've already you, it's 60/40. It has to be at least percent taught by full-timers.
But 40 percent is a great percentage of your college time. It means most of your students are spending a lot of time with these part-time teachers, and I think they ought to have available to them -- the students ought to have available to them teachers that are not chasing from one end of the City or State or maybe going into another state in order to earn enough money to be able to raise a family. I think it would be awfully good if Community College took leadership in this fight and said "We're going to limit part-time teachers to the purpose for which they were really founded," and that was to meet certain circumstances where it was not clear at all that full-time faculty wise decision. A. But I think you depend very heavily on these part-time teachers and I think you ought to put an end to it.
If I may, I'll just say a 2367 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET couple words. And I'll try not to repeat what I've said before. First, I want to be sure that -- there are two different issues here. They are at times may be merge, but there are two. One is what is the percentage of full-timers that could be hired, quite apart away from the rate of pay issue. And I just want to be sure I've been clear on that. There are a number of reasons why it would be in the worse interest of the college to have anything approaching a hundred percent. One, it has to do with expertise, as I've mentioned before. But another is in part driven by budget and by realities of life. Of all the sectors of higher education, we are most susceptible to the vagaries of enrollment. We are counter-cyclical. In a good economy, and I use the '90s in the City of Philadelphia as the example, when the student population that we serve which is very job driven, can get jobs, they will take the jobs instead of college or they'll take the jobs and maybe go to college but often part-time as opposed to full time. What you see then is stable or declining enrollment. In an economy as we're experiencing right now, that is not true. It's the opposite; the enrollment increasing. If you go to a 2368 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET faculty specifically, but I would say this even about some other areas too, that is too high percentage of full-timers, what you face then is the potential of layoffs down the road. That is not what we want to do. I'm not at all opposed to the majority core of our institution being full-time. The obvious advantages of that, I think we all agree upon. But I would want to make that clear, at some point, and I don't know what that point is, it would endanger a curriculum, at least in terms of the ability to retain someone. Because we do fluctuate enrollment-wise much more than any other sector of higher education. So on the full-time piece, there are reasons. On the part-time, I would say, again, respectfully, that there are certainly a number of and many part-timers that fall into the category that you've described, that is to say, they teach at more than one place. That's not true by any means, though, of all. And not all fall in the category that your wife fell into. There are many who are practicing in a given field and want to teach one course or two courses and we want them for that reason. They're not making their livelihood from that and so on. That doesn't, in my view, mean that 2369 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET we shouldn't pay them what they're worth. Whatever the situation is, we should be paying for the value. I do believe there is a difference in the expectation of what a full-time faculty member brings to the life of the college. I agree with you that around the classroom we would want and hope that faculty will respond as your wife did, adjunct faculty, and give some time to the students and so on. But they are not obliged to develop a new course and they, on the whole, don't do that. They're not obliged to participate on committees or all the things that it takes to run the college, to advise clubs and so on. You'll find some that do, that volunteer that, but on the whole that is not what happens. That is the expectation of full-time employment. Whether you're an administrator or a faculty member that you're going to participate much more fully. It is not just a matter of teaching the course. And if we need to have further dialog to try to articulate that or define that better, as I said earlier, I'm happy to do that or have others engaged in that, too. But there is a difference.
There is a difference, but wouldn't Community College be 2370 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET improved if there were more full-time rather than fewer.
So that the claim for change from part-time to full-time is not an absolute. I think in negotiations where you would define the problems that you see exists, you would define the percentage that maybe 60 percent would move first to 70 or 80 percent or 90 percent instead of a hundred percent. Maybe you would have some clauses dealing with the question what happens in layoff. I agree with you, you want to make all the contingencies plausible. You happen to be a perfect case in example, I was arguing this morning with a newsman who didn't understand why when economic times are tougher, the City has a greater responsibility to folks in the neighborhood than when times are good. If a family is facing economic problems, it needs more supportive services, not less. Apparently, the same thing applies to community Community College. If people get jobs easily in times of economic strength then, of course, college looks less desirable. I don't think it's just a sign of community college, I think many 2371 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET universities find the same thing that their enrollment goes up. But let me ask you specifically, the teachers colleges in Pennsylvania, don't they now have a system of pay parity because that -- you know, if I have a system of pay parity, that removes this ugly element. Is the college really doing it to save money, is that the purpose? Because if you did that then neither I nor anybody else could have a suspicion you're doing it to save money. You're doing it for some educational purpose. But the fact is here it seems to me you save a lot of money and I'd like your staff to would work up how much money in your next appearance and be ready to answer that away. How much money would it take to achieve parity, say, at 70 percent, 80 percent to 90 percent as well as a hundred percent? And the teachers colleges, I understand, are at a hundred percent level. State teachers colleges in Pennsylvania. In other words, if a part-time instructor at a State teachers college teaches one-fourth as many courses as a full time instructor, that part-time instructor receives 2372 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET one-fourth of the pay and benefits. Now, that, to me, seems fair. No one can say that the teachers colleges are using part-time faculty for any reason other than the good of the college and good the students because you remove the element of pay benefit to the college by use of part-time employment. And I want to encourage Community College to think about it. You have a very special place in my heart because I've felt that Community College ought, as a matter of fact, be a four-year college because I've found not only my wife -- I use her merely as an example of the dedication that I find among all part-time teachers, but I used her merely to show my support for the concept I think community staff has a staff of teachers, full time as well as part-time, more did dedicated than I've seen in any full time university. I think you do. And the work you do, you do an astounded job of teaching, and I wanted to pay compliments to you and to all of the faculty and to everybody that participates at Community College. Now, one thing you have on your side, you have students who want to go. They're not 2373 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET compelled to go. And so I say you have that one advantage. But the other advantage you have is a faculty that has dedication, likes of which I've never seen at any other institution. And I don't want to derogate. I spent many years at the University of Pennsylvania and it's a very fine school. But if I had to consider faculty for faculty, I would take Community College over the University of Pennsylvania as a quality faculty because of the extreme dedication of its faculty full-time and part-time. So we'll look to your return. Madam Chair, I would look to the return of Dr. Curtis with the information. Again, thank you for participating.
Thank you. And we certainly agree with you in terms of the special mission and role that we think we play in the City and the dedication of all of our faculty and staff as well.
Let me just reiterate one point. I think I made it. Would you have any objection, if there were funding provided after you give us the information, that would enable you to 2374 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET consider increasing substantially the percentage of full-time as against the part-time, would you be acquiescing to a position if the other sides of the contract asked for a reopener of the contract to permit a change of language which would accommodate that?
I can't tell you an unequivocal yes, sir. First of all we're talking about -- while I don't have the exact figures, we're talking 8 to 10 million. We're talking a significant amount of money. Secondly, we need to know that whatever amount we're talking about is available then on an ongoing basis year after year. I also want to account, I've raised student tuition on purpose two or three times today because that's always a piece of the equation for us no matter what we're talking about in terms of bettering the college, whether it's hiring more full-time faculty or providing other kinds of opportunities. So I just want to be sure that from my advantage point I'm clear, this issue no matter how sympathetic we might be in terms of, let's say, the number of full-timers, there are other issues as well.
Could you explain 2375 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET those other issues either now or at the next time you're here? Because we'd like to have a full panoply before us because ultimately the City Council has to make its decision. And on behalf of the City Council, I would like to apologize for the fact that generally we've never met the one-third requirement, that we have not met our duties and responsibilities. We've always let Mayors find some reason, whoever the Mayor is, to cut down on Community College. They don't ever seem to cut down on business development. But somehow on the field of education to which all of us salute, every time we mention the word "education," it seems as when it comes to producing money, sometimes we fail our duties. And I want to apologize to you and would pledge if we got all the information, I would work very hard to rectify that. I have a feeling that this City Council would be the kind of Council that would want to do that. And to that I would pledge you and I would hope that you're willing to consider the changes we've talked about today. Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome, Councilman. Let me agree with all the wonderful 2376 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET things he said about CCP and certainly put plug in for our west branch under Ms. Smith. Lillian Smith is fabulous, and I'm sure the record will show from whence we've come under her leadership and her involvement and interaction with the community is phenomenal. So we appreciate all that you represent. Councilwoman Blondel Reynolds Brown.
Thank you. I do have a final question regarding support programs for students, particularly African American students who have to take English one, two, or three times. What kind of anchors, support programs are in place for those students who have to meet the standard until they meet the standard?
There are many. There are certainly general support that any student can take advantage of. We offer tutoring for any student; it's free. We have specifically in that area a writing lab, et cetera, et cetera. But you can talk about math lab, you can talk about technology and open computer lab and the like. So there are learning assistance centers on the campus. Some programs, specific programs particularly for 2377 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET students who come in not meeting all the basic skills requirements for some credit courses, for example, have specific staff attached to the program s support. So again, it depends upon the given program. But that's widely available. That's without regard for anything. Every student has access to those kinds of support services. That's a given with us. Students come to us, as you know, for a variety of reasons. Sometimes cost, and that's been mentioned that they can really move forward in their education at a lesser cost. In other cases, because they were in open enrollment institution, open admissions institution and they may not have exactly the thorough preparation education that they need. We provide that kind of developmental education opportunity that not all places do. But with that comes the support network. That's absolutely part and parcel of what we offer.
And they can take advantage of those kinds of programs prior to actually enrolling so that they get to where they need to be -- you have programs that get them to where they need to be after high school and before enrollment in Community College? 2378 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET
I wouldn't say that. There is a program, actually, in the summer that does just what you described, but it's fairly small. So most students don't take advantage of that. We're really talking about once they're enrolled they're taking advantage of a lot of these things.
Well, I think it just speaks again to the enormous responsibility, job that the Philadelphia School District has as it looks at its high school plan and as it moves to roll out the new high school movement, they're calling it, the opportunity to sit down with CCP, particularly CCP which does have open enrollment, and figure out how we can graduate high school seniors who at the minimum meets CCP requirements. Some view it as an opportunity. Others would view it as a challenge, but when I hear that any student has to take English four or five times is a sad commentary. If you follow dots, it tracks right back to what we're not doing at the public school level. So that's my own commentary with regards to the enormous job the Public School System has. Thanks again for your testimony.
Thank you Councilwoman Reynolds-Brown. And let me thank all who are here. Pay equity obviously is an important issue around the country. We thank all of you for raising the issue. And certainly for our Deborah Cobb, we thank you. Lynette Brown is looking into this issue again for us since she worked Deborah a few years ago, and certainly she is one of our wonderful people who's sincere about her education and we want to help her as well. Councilman Cohen.
Next to me is a sign, which I have some difficulty reading. But my aid has better eyesight and tells me it alleges some form of racism and unfair conduct in the English Department. I know nothing beyond that sign. But since the young women bearing that sign has been very patient and persistent, do you have comment? What is this about? We don't like to have people come to Council expressing an opinion without either giving them an opportunity to be heard or giving who ever is accused of unfairness an opportunity to reply. Do you have any knowledge at all?
I have a general comment. 2380 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET I don't have all the details, but I believe this does concern a grade and whether or not a course is passed. And again, we have a process for that. I think we have done some dealing with this particular situation before. We're happy to, again, provide opportunity, but we actually have a process when it comes to grade appeals or the success that a student fees he or she is or is not having in a given course, for that matter, any other kind of situation in a classroom. But there is indeed a process which we gladly support.
To the best of my knowledge, it began to be and then the student was given an opportunity to move to the next level and didn't take advantage of that. But again, we will investigate. I think we're committed to try to do that.
Madam Chair, I would like before this ends to give the person carrying the sign an opportunity to be heard.
Fine. Deb, please come around to the witness 2381 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET table. Thank you very much, Dr. Curtis and Ms. Cohen. Thank you both. And we thank you. Deb has been coming into my office for years with regard to this matter when she was a student and since she's had problems in this regard. She's been here before. In fact, last year to discuss this issue, and we welcome you again. Please state your name for the record love you to.
Yes. God bless. I'm blessed to be here my name is Deborah Cobb, C-O-B-B. I'm a taxpayer, a registered voter, a student, a native Philadelphian. My academic career has been unjustly interrupted by Community College English Department. I am not saying that Community College does not have its assets. I basically have loved the institution. I am saying that demagogical forces and ideologies have caused me to suffer, along with several other students that do not know what to do. Some have dropped out, some have given up, some have went on to other institutions. I myself have finally come out of the lion's mouth so that I can address this with litigation. 2382 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET The Congressman of the United States wrote President Curtis February of 2002 acknowledging a review of my records. In January of 2001, Dr. Curtis told me in the hall in the cafeteria of Community College as approached him -- I asked him had he received my notarized certified reports. They consisted of 9 Fs of fraud on my student transcripts. 10 In March 1, 1999 when I came to the 11 English Department to find out what was going on 12 with my records, I was taken into an office by the 13 chairman of the English Department, Dr. John Howel 14 and I was told, "Deborah, I'm an agent of the State. " I told him, "Dr. Howel, I have intellectual properties and I'll do just fine. " I did not realize really what he was saying to me. I am the underprivileged, the working poor, the disadvantaged. I have a right to a fair education before Thurgood Marshall and Brown v. 2383 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET Board of Education. I have a right. Everyone has a right. God meant for all of us to be something in life, and some of us must acquire a formal education. Maybe or 40 years ago you may not 7 have needed a college education, but today when you 8 go in employment offices, they ask what degree do 9 you have. 10 I'm a non-traditional student and I'm 11 also decent human being. I don't deserve -- 12 December the 12th, the teacher that was contacted, 13 she said -- "Katherine Pecullo told us in a meeting 14 with the vice president of the school Dr. Judith Gay 15 that she was contacted in the middle of the night 16 about me. I have about 86 papers from her class 17 from 1999 and I have about 76 papers from another 18 English 1012 class. My dispute is not only 16 Fs of 19 fraud on my student transcript, it's also -- 20 Community School school grading policy has been changed after three years I've been fighting them about honoring the school grading policy. It's stated that any courses above 100, such English 101 and English 108, you must get A, B, C, D, or F, a letter grade. I discovered I have MP grades for 2384 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET both courses. After Congressman Robert A. Brady wrote them in February Community College changed my MP grades that I had been fighting for almost two years, they changed them to a D and an F. Never notified me in mail. Everything I've ever sent to them I've sent notarized here in City Council and certified. And sometimes that has a struggle because I didn't always have 4 or $5 to pay for it to be certified. I demand justice in this. I will keep fighting. I will put it on a further public forum and I am planning litigation. No student should be treated like this. The people that were there to help me, they are constantly hindering me. I want my grade to reflect work. I am an A-B student basically. The work is nothing under a C, and I could not acquire nothing but MP grades. Dr. John Howel, when I kept insisting in writing that these were improper grades, I must receive a letter grade, he wrote back to me and put a black crayon through my name in the memo that the school grading policy was an oversight and that it would be changed in the next catalog.
Catalog 2000-2001 came along, but finally 2002 they 2385 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET changed English 101 and 108 stating the word that you may, may not get 3 credits towards graduation. When did English 101 and English 108, above 100 college level courses become remedial courses. I mean, you can't ask the to government to pay -- most of us are poor students. We're either working, laid off, on welfare to work, recovering people. How can you ask us to go to school for 4 to months and not give us college credits for college level courses. How can you ask the government to pay on scholarships and grant such a thing. And why did they change the two classes that I've been told to go take a train and black crayon through my name? The English Department, I am told, runs the school. They make all the decisions. I'm told it's household word with the sanitation environmental services that the English department are greedy and they're racist. I have been abused by the English Department and I will not stop. If the media will not come to me, I am going to go to them. There are several thousands students that have dropped out or repeating English over and 2386 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET over and over again. Please get the statistics. I will help to work on them, if necessary. I'm a paralegal student. I would have re-took the courses. I took English 101 paralleled with political science. I passed the political science and my political science said it's awful strange English didn't pass. English 101, she gave me an A October 29 on a nine-page midterm assignment. And then for the month of November you're out for a week for thanksgiving. I had four Cs in that time and December 5th, the grades go in and I still end up with MP grades when I'm telling them, these are improper grades. My hands are really full. I was trying to tell the chairman of the English Department of my delima that I keep receiving these letters that are cutting off my financial aid right in the middle of semester or that I'm on academic probation. Except that I'm going to end up a professional student. I love school. I'm 43, and if I don't go to school now, I'll never go. I've been out of school over year now behind fraud and racism. I end up going to Jannie Blackwell's office in May of 2000, and 16 Fs of fraud were 2387 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET discovered on my student transcripts by the help of Lynette Brown. Unfortunately, she works for the college. And it's a great institution, but there must be some change. Dr. Beatrice Jones and Debbie Allen -- and when we also put the other issue of the English 101 and 108, I wanted a letter grade. I wanted a grade also to reflect my work. And I had MPs, which means making progress. A black crayon put through my name and telling me it's an oversight. We cannot have a chairman of an English Department or English Department holding African Americans, anybody, for that matter, back. They're holding us back from getting our degrees. How did I pass political science, civil litigation, an A sociology, psychology and the English Department won't pass me. Apparently, I do know how to write an essay.
Thank you for the opportunity. I did not mean to be as passionate. I have really suffered. And they need to be mindful of violence in the workplace, because by the grace of God I was able with support and I'm decent person 2388 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET not to come in there and handle this in a violent manner. But I am very angry, I'm upset, but I'm going to deal with this in a logical, civil manner. And plus, I have the fight for the other students that don't have feistiness, the fight or the will. I don't even know where I got the strength from. But I know that God and public officials that have supported me and listened to me -- and Jannie, I wouldn't been able to go to school without the help of Jannie Blackwell. God be an instrument, where she was able to find what the problem was, that there was a problem. Also, I paid off the deficit. I end up with a deficit $400 with Community College. From the stress, I withdraw in September of 2001. I have had nothing but heartache since then until now trying to get my 30 college credits acknowledged. They had me for 27 college credits when it should have been 30. And in January of 2000 it cut off all my State funding where I couldn't even go to school because I didn't have 30 college credits, a high school or GED. I since then had to go to W. Wilson Goode's office, get his director Mr. Steven Bane to write to Harrisburg, and now I have my diploma. I 2389 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET have 30 college credits after almost and a half, almost years of school. And I also have a legal battle coming that I really don't understand, but I know right is right and wrong and wrong. The icing on the cake, and I'm going to leave with this, when the vice president of the school asked Katherine Pecullo who put in writing to build a case against me, they're saying that I didn't turn in research assignments, no revisions, no drafts, as if I didn't my work. I have all my work. They wouldn't look at my work. Her assistant did, but they would not acknowledge work. My work is A-B work and it will stand. The quality and the quantity of it will stand in the federal court and it will stand in the newspaper. It's not fair. I'm not playing. They must be fair to the students. And then here I didn't expect that their staff members and most of the teachers that teach are part-time staff members and most of them are very good teachers. I'm not saying even that the teachers with ideologies clashing they didn't what they taught wasn't well. I'm saying why would a teacher say that the English Department contact her 2390 3/11/03 - FY '04 OPERATING BUDGET in the middle of the night, that's why she lied on a student? Then saying I don't have research assignments. I have two research assignments, one pages, one 7, and they both had her handwriting all through it, and she didn't even know. Her response to that was, "I was contact in the middle night." That's all she could say. So I'm saying I demand justice.
Thank you very 11 much. We appreciate it. And as has been said, they 12 will continue to review that. You can always contact us for Deborah Cobb. Thank you, Deborah. She's been one of our friends for years now. Having said that, any other questions from Members of the Committee? (No response.)
We thank you all. This hearing will be recessed until Wednesday, March 12 at 9:30 a.m. (Council adjourned at 6:20 p.m.) - - - 2391 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of March 11, 2003, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. RE: COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ___________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR and Notary Public