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Minutes

Committee Hearing, February 15, 2000

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsFeb 15, 2000

People mentioned

Names our system found in this transcript. Automatically extracted, so it can include anyone named in the record, not only officials or parties.

COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE OPERATING BUDGET HEARINGS-CONTINUED - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, February 15, 2000 9:35 a.m. - - - BILL 000005 - An ordinance adopting the operating budget for Fiscal Year 2001. PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA, Chair COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE L. BLACKWELL COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK J. DICICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN JOAN L. KRAJEWSKI COUNCILMAN W. THACHER LONGSTRETH COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN BRIAN J. O'NEILL COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 386 I N D E X JOSEPH PERRELLO .............................. 388 JUDGE CERMELE ................................ 397 LINDA ORFANELLI, Director of Finance ......... 399 JOE HERKNESS, Executive Director, Board of Pensions and Retirement ................. 401 MARK BONAVITACOLA, Chief Investment Officer .. 413 VINCE JANNETTI, Secretary, Sinking Fund ...... 424 ROBERT DUBOW ................................. 429 JOE FARALDO, City Treasurer .................. 435 KAREN YANCY, Deputy Treasurer ................ 438 LOUIS APPLEBAUM, Procurement Commissioner .... 455 JAMES ROUNDTREE, Deputy Finance Director ..... 459 JOE MARTZ, Managing Director ................. 470 FRED VOIGHT, Committee of Seventy ............ 485 NANCY KAMMERDEINER, Revenue Commissioner ..... 574 DENISE GARRETT, Chief, Water Revenue Bureau .. 578 MICHAEL ISARD, ............................... 593 NIKKI MARX, Deputy Revenue Commissioner ...... 597 DAVID GLANCEY, Chairman, Board of Revision of Taxes ................................ 599 JOSEPH MARTZ, Managing Director .............. 618 ESTELLE RICHMAN, Director, Social Services ... 627 DIANNE GRANLUND, Deputy Managing Director for Criminal Justice Population Management .. 629 SYLVESTER JOHNSON, Deputy Commissioner, Operation Philadelphia Police ........... 653 DONNA WOLF, Director, Targeted Assistance .... 661 JOHN F. TIMONEY, Police Commissioner ......... 692 CHARLES BRENNAN, Deputy Police Commissioner .. 715 SYLVESTER JOHNSON, Deputy Commissioner, Operation Philadelphia Police ........... 719 TOM NESTEL, Deputy Commissioner, Police Dept.. 736 THOMAS COSTELLO, Commissioner of Prisons ..... 789 PRESS GROOMS, Deputy Commissioner, Prisons ... 792 DANIEL RAKOWSKI, Administrative Service Director ................................ 795 DIANNE GRANLUND, Deputy Managing Director for Criminal Justice Population Management .. 802 HAROLD HAIRSTON, Commissioner, Fire Department 807 BRIAN ANDERSON, Chief Information Officer .... 818 ROBERT DUBOW ................................. 829 JOAN DECKER, Records Commissioner ............ 837 387 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 P R O C E E D I N G S

Council President Verna

Good morning, everyone. This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill No. 5. We were in the process of hearing -- well, we did hear testimony from the Finance Director -- Your button's on, did you want to be recognized, Councilman? Your light's on. Do you want to recognized? Number one? Okay. What I'd like to ask is that we continue with the questioning of the Finance Department. (Finance Department representatives come forward.)

Council President Verna

Each Councilmember will be given five minutes of questioning on the first go-around. Mr. Perrello, you state in your testimony that your division plays a vital role in freeing up funds that would otherwise be spent on claims or claims-related issues making them available for other uses. Then why, Mr. Perrello, does the City's General Fund indemnity account continue to increase from year to year? And when 388 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 do you see a reduction in this account?

Mr. Perrello

Madam President, the division as a whole, through the efforts of the employ disability unit primarily, has basically saved the City, if you add up all the savings from the medical payment plans, medical costs, as well as the lost time days and the wage replacement costs, hundreds of millions of dollars in the last six years. That's primarily where we're looking at our savings and contributions to the City as well as insurance savings where we have resulted in an $8.5 savings in insurance cost in the last five years and an additional $13.4 million in savings in the wrap-up programs. These are the areas that we're attempting to really stress the savings that we can plow back into the City for beneficial programs. The cost of the indemnity budget is primarily made up of two components, the Law Department caseload as well as Risk Management caseload. And the Risk Management Department manages both General Fund and Water Fund money. And it is our attempt to continue to try to reduce the cost of the claims that go to litigation by expeditiously settling them on a claims basis. 389 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 The numbers continue to go up on a reserve basis because the number of claims filed against the City continue to increase.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Also on of your testimony, you mention that your unit crafted a comprehensive insurance program to cover the Republican National Convention. How much is that going to cost and who will be paying for it?

Mr. Perrello

That's being paid for out of the budget of Philadelphia 2000, and the approximate cost of that insurance for the entire convention, which includes both the City, Philadelphia 2000, and the R & C, in fact, is approximately $700,000.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

My light's not on.

Council President Verna

Yes, it is.

Councilman Kenney

It's not on here. Mr. Perrello, just a question on strategies as opposed to litigation and your comments that the Reserve Fund has gone up because the claims have gone up. We read from time to 390 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 time -- and of course, we don't have access to every claim and every settlement, but we read from time to tome what seem to be obnoxious settlements from people who either assaulted a police officer and wound up with broken nose winds up with a $25,000 check. It's almost as if it seems that the claims are going up because we're settling them quicker and with some money. Is there some kind of strategy or balance we need to find in ones we decide to take to court in order to put the claimant who may not have a legitimate claim through kind of the mill of the court process so that we just simply aren't handing out checks to people who apparently are in the wrong themselves? It is somewhat disconcerting to the citizenry and myself when I read about settlements of people who, you know, had stolen a car, you know, and wound up, you know, after the police were trying to pursue them, killing three people and we wind up paying all three families as if they were rewarded for their kids stealing a car. To me it doesn't seem -- and maybe there's a strategy that in long run shows it to be cost effective, but is that a reason why maybe we're getting more claims 391 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 because people think we're going to pay them?

Mr. Perrello

Unfortunately, Councilman, this is one of the most litigious cities in the United States.

Councilman Kenney

There's too many lawyers.

Mr. Perrello

We deal with this issue on a lot of fronts. Unfortunately, the third-party claim situations is one of the biggest ones. In Risk Management, we handle only those prelitigation claims, and it's our philosophy that if we can settle the claims at a prelitigation stage, it will cost substantially less than if the claim goes to litigation.

Councilman Kenney

Less in potential award or less in the amount it costs from a City employee standpoint to do them, or a combination?

Mr. Perrello

Well, from all facets of that, Councilman. If I have a claims adjustor who's basically an employee that's making somewhere about $40,000 a year versus a Law Department attorney who's making probably double that, the time and effort that it takes us to settle that claim versus going to the Law 392 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Department where then the plaintiff has his own attorney and their expenses involved, normally the factor goes up two, three, or four times. So the value of the claim, just because of the value from both the City standpoint and the plaintiff's standpoint, is much more if we let it go to litigation. The fact remains, though, that we in Risk Management will never settle a claim that we feel has no merit to it.

Councilman Kenney

Well, no merit or minimum merit? I mean, have you ever been -- without being specific, have you ever been in a situation where you really authorize the issuance of a check when it really just got you in the throat that you really shouldn't be giving this clown money?

Mr. Perrello

At that point in time we won't do it, no. If we feel there is some merit, even though it's marginal, we'll offer a minimum settlement to see if we can make the claim go away to avoid it becoming --

Councilman Kenney

I recognize the cost-effective strategy potentially of doing that. In some way do you think, and I guess it would 393 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 just been your supposition, does the reputation that you're going to get something out of it make it more likely that someone's going to file a claim? I mean, considering the litigious nature of the City and considering the number of lawyers and the number of ambulance chasing so-and-sos that are out there, at some point in time aren't people just filing because the City's going to offer them something? If they file a claim for 100,000, the City offers them 10; we save 90, but the person is inappropriately getting some money.

Mr. Perrello

Primarily, the only two ways to attack that are, one, through a more enhanced fraud program, which we're trying to do now.

Councilman Kenney

I'm sorry, a more enhanced --

Mr. Perrello

A more enhanced fraud program, which we're trying to do now in cooperation with the Law Department and the District Attorney's Office. And secondly, by thoroughly investigating the claims before we make any offer to settle.

Councilman Kenney

Have we looked at 394 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 the potential of hiring outside help in investigating fraud and those types of things? My thought is I would much rather be paying a company the money that I would save in paying some deadbeat and spend the same amount of money but changed the reputation that somehow simply filing the claims will wind you up with some amount of money in the end. I mean, are there firms out there -- I mean, I know in private industry when a worker claims that he or she is hurt, they've gone as far as -- and I'm from South Philadelphia and down near the waterfront, and they've gone as far as to send guys around with cameras in vans taking pictures of people fixing their aluminum siding and then use that against them on their Workman's Comp or on their disability claims. Do we do anything like that with these people?

Mr. Perrello

Yes, we do, sir. First of all, we are members of the Citizen's Crime Commission. And secondly, we do have an anti-fraud claims adjustor on the Risk Management staff whose job is to get cases referred to him by the other adjusters and then work through the Citizen's Crime Commission and with the DA's 395 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Office to investigate and prosecute these claims.

Councilman Kenney

I'm even talking about something else, as far as hiring a company that has an economic incentive to ferret out these people. For example, our fraud investigator, does he or she work on commission or on salary.

Mr. Perrello

Pardon me?

Councilman Kenney

Do they work on commission or salary, our fraud investigator?

Mr. Perrello

Salary.

Councilman Kenney

I'm wondering whether or not a commission-based approach would create a resource for the City that is almost a dogged attack on some of these people. I know people myself, whether it's the City or whether it's SEPTA, I mean, it's just, you know, you win the lottery. People complain in Philadelphia about the cost of auto insurance. I mean, you go up to Tioga County and two farmers bang into each other, they go to each other's barns and fix their bumper. They don't have a pain clinic and a lawyer and a psychologist and everybody. There's a whole wealth of people out there that are just feeding off the public. And that, again, as you 396 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 know with private auto insurance, creates an untenable situation for citizens of Philadelphia because insurance rates are usually a thousand bucks above those in the suburbs or in the rural areas.

Mr. Perrello

That is correct.

Councilman Kenney

And I don't criticize your efforts because I think you have probably in the end saved us a substantial sum of money. I just think part of the problem is that these shysters and their clients belief that they're going to get some money by simply filing a claim even if it's not what they asked for originally.

Mr. Perrello

I do like your recommendation about putting this on an incentive basis, and we will look into that.

Councilman Kenney

Okay, thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning. I wanted to ask Judge 397 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Cermele some questions about the Office of Administrative Review. From the testimony and the budget documents, can you tell me how many hearings do you have on an annual basis for the littering violations? JUDGE CERMELE: I'd have to get back to you with an exact number. There are not a lot of --

Councilman Nutter

Judge, can I get you to talk into the mike there? JUDGE CERMELE: Excuse me. I'd have to get back to you with an actual number of actual hearings that are conducted on the violations. The way the process works, it is somewhat unlike the process that we use for parking tickets. That is, we do not render a final judgment on code violations notices. Rather, what we attempted to do is to settle those matters with the individual. And by settle, we want them to pay a $25 fine.

Councilman Nutter

As opposed --

Mr. Cermele

Or by paying nothing.

Councilman Nutter

As opposed to what?

Mr. Cermele

As opposed to a $300 which the ordinance calls for. Those cases that 398 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 we're unable to settle, either by saying, "no, we don't think you're liable for anything" or "yes, we think you should be paying $25," if the person then does not pay the $25 or does nothing, we eventually file all of those cases in the Municipal Court and seek judgments in the amount of $300. So I will provide to you through the Chair in writing the number of cases that we actually hear on the informal basis at the BAA and a number of case that we bring to judgment in the Municipal Court.

Councilman Nutter

That would be helpful. And can you also get same information for any code violation notices issued in '97, '98, or '99 for the tobacco ordinance?

Mr. Cermele

Yes, we'll do that, too.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you very much. I have a couple of questions, one for the Director of Finance. On , 8-43, it's just an interesting line I just noted. Line 298, "Payment 399 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 for Burials and Graves," could you explain that, please?

Ms. Orfanelli

Certainly. Sadly, there are people who have no families and no one to provide for their burial. And the City for many years has taken care of people who are homeless, whatever, who have no one to bury them. And the City basically -- there used to be what we used to call Potter's Field. But we provide burials for those people, that's one thing. The other thing that's covered under there is the amount of money that is paid for veterans, and I think you may have seen that in the paper on Sunday. Veterans, a long-standing law apparently in 1935 was passed by the State and it's a county service function and we pay $75 to the widow or widower of the veteran.

Councilwoman Tasco

All veterans?

Ms. Orfanelli

All veterans.

Councilwoman Tasco

Going back to the non-veterans.

Ms. Orfanelli

Okay.

Councilwoman Tasco

Individuals who have no family, are they buried in Potter's Field 400 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 or are they buried in private graves? And what is the process for a family to access or someone to --

Ms. Orfanelli

Well, these are people that have no one.

Councilwoman Tasco

No one.

Ms. Orfanelli

No one's come forward. The medical examiner basically has these bodies. They may be someone that was picked up, you know, frozen, whatever, sadly. I guess a certain period of time an investigation is done to make sure that no one's been located, and that's really handled -- we don't really handle any of the details. It's really handled out of the medical examiner's office, and they would really be able to explain to you what the process is.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you. Could I ask Mr. Roundtree some questions? Is he here?

Ms. Orfanelli

No, his testimony is later on, so he hasn't arrived yet. If you'll hold that, please.

Councilwoman Tasco

I think that's it right now. 401 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

Councilwoman, are you finished?

Councilwoman Tasco

Yes, I am.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)

Council President Verna

Seeing none, the next department is the Board of Pension and Retirement. Thank you. (Board of Pension and Retirement witnesses come forward.)

Council President Verna

Good morning. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Herkness

Yes, ma'am. I am Joe Herkness, Executive Director for the Board of Pensions and Retirement, and I'm here on behalf of the Finance Director, Linda Orfanelli, to render testimony for the agency Board of Pensions and Retirement.

Mr. Bonavitacola

And I'm Marc Bonavitacola, Chief Investment Officer of the 402 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Pension Fund.

Council President Verna

Good morning. Do you have testimony, Mr. Herkness?

Mr. Herkness

Yes, ma'am. Good morning, Council President Verna and Committee of the Whole. I am Joe Herkness, Executive Director and Director of the Municipal Pension Fund, and I'm here to present and deliver testimony on behalf of the Director of Finance, Linda Orfanelli, Chair of the Pension Fund's Board of Trustees. With me is Marc Bonavitacola, Chief Investment Officer for the Pension Fund. 6 billion unfunded crude liability. As we entered Fiscal 1999, the fund had only one half of the assets required to meet its long-term obligations. 3 billion. 74 billion. 2 billion in proceeds from the single pension bond issue, which happened to be the largest bond issue that was ever issued in the state of Pennsylvania. 07 percent. 38 percent. The Pension Fund's investment performance improved from what was the 90th percentile or the lowest 10 percent ranking in the -- we use the William M. Mercer public funds universe as a barometer, to the 67th percentile, and that was on a three-year basis ending in the of FY '99. On a one-year basis, the fund rose to the 17th percentile. 1 billion. In FY 2001, the number of participants receiving monthly annuity payments will have surpassed the 32,000 mark, continuing a very small 404 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 but steady annual increase in the number of recipients. The more than 32,000 retirees, survivors, and beneficiaries will receive over $400 million in pension benefits during the next fiscal year. Sixty-five percent of those receiving the benefits will have their monthly payments electronically deposited. That is a little short of our goal of 70 or so percent, but we continue to make progress. We'd like to have almost everyone on deposit, but 65 percent from about 40 percent four or five years ago is steady progress. In addition, by the end of FY 2001, nearly 20,000 eligible participants -- I'm sorry, that's FY 2000, sorry. Nearly 20,000 eligible participants will have received the second and finally ad hoc bonus payment that was afforded by Council Bill 990001, and that will total over $36 million a loan. There was a payment that they received on April 30th of 1999, this is the second one and that will go out in June, June 30th. Two other important legislative initiatives have occurred over the last year. Council Ordinance 990001-A established a Pension 405 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Adjustment Fund with the sole purpose of affording regular pension benefit increases to the system's participants. This legislation created a mechanism by with the annual investment gains greater than percent and less than percent 7 on an actuarial adjusted basis will be shared 8 between the participants and the Pension Fund. 9 The assets will be available for benefit 10 increases -- half the assets will be available for 11 benefit increases and the other half will remain 12 in the Pension Fund. The first annual calculation 13 for this pension adjustment fund will take place 14 in the second quarter of FY 2001. 15 As you know, Council has adopted a Deferred Retirement Option Plan, better known as the DROP Plan. This extremely popular option has drawn over employees in its first four months in existence. The option allows employees who have reached normal retirement age to continue working up to four years while their monthly pension benefit accrues in a lump sum. That lump sum DROP account is then payable to the employee at regular retirement. Over 21 percent of eligible employees are presently in the DROP, and that figure is 406 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 expected to double over the next three years based on experience of other funds and basically our guesstimate on the popularity of the fund. We think it will be close to 50 percent or more in the next couple of fiscal years. The Pension Board has had a policy of attempting to use minority firms and local managers whenever possible, investment managers.

Mr. Herkness

At the end of December 1999, nearly 10 percent of all the funds under active management were managed by minority-owned firms and well over half the fund's actively managed assets were managed by firms located in or around Philadelphia. 3 percent of the assets actively managed were held by minority-owned firms and just 31 percent of the funds under management were handled by Philadelphia-area firms. This year, the board of trustees also established an opportunities fund, which is comprised of $100 million to be invested by 8 to 10 local and minority managers whose firms are 407 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 just not large enough to be employed or be hired by the huge Philadelphia Pension Fund. Initial allocations for that fund are expected to be made within the next 60 days. In FY 2001, the Board of Pensions will establish a Web site -- well, it has established a Web site. The Web site will be expanded to include a link to all the funds public investment information. We will also have a summary plan description on the Web site, pension ordinances, and various other important pieces of information that might be relative to pension benefits. Hopefully, we will have that up and running and updated within the next three to four months. The Board of Pensions continues to have oversight responsibility for the City's Deferred Compensation Plan. The plan's assets have grown to over 300 million, and the number of participants in that plan have increased by 10 percent since 1997. There's presently a little over 11,000 participants in the Deferred Compensation Plan. Reducing administrative fees remains major objective, and since 1997 over 300,000 in annual administrative fees have been 408 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 eliminated from the plan. Participants' statements continue to be received to days 4 after each quarter's end, increasing a previous 5 delivery time by at least 15 days. This year for 6 the first time quarterly investment education 7 presentations for plan participants were 8 successfully introduced. These presentations are 9 announced by payroll and will become a permanent 10 component of the Deferred Compensation Plan. 6 million. 8 million in 14 debt service for the pension obligation bond that 15 was issued in Fiscal '99. 16 The administrative costs of the Pension 17 Fund are borne by the fund itself and there no 18 direct appropriation from the General Fund. 1 percent. In FY 2001, we'll have 62 budgeted positions for investment counseling, technical active services, our health and welfare support and general Pension Fund support as compared with 61 in FY 2000. 409 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Mr. Bonavitacola and myself will be glad to answer any questions.

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. Mr. Herkness, you mentioned in your testimony that the second ad hoc bonus payments will be made in June. I'm rather curious. If a retiree did not fall within the requirements in FY 2000, however, they now fall into the requirements, would they be eligible to receive a bonus in June?

Mr. Herkness

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

If they become eligible this year, they can get that bonus?

Mr. Herkness

Yes, ma'am. If they were ineligible in July of 2000 based on the criteria then but become eligible for the program within the next 12 months, they will receive that bonus effective on June 30, 2000, yes.

Council President Verna

Thank you. I know that there was a great deal of controversy when the City adopted the DROP Program, and apparently, you have indicated that 410 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 it has been rather successful. The current length of the DROP Program is four years. Do you think that this is an adequate time period, or should it be lengthened?

Mr. Herkness

My opinion, my personal opinion is that four years is a good solid pilot program. This legislation that was passed is a pilot program, and the Board of Pension and Council will be making a decision at the end of four years based on the actual cost it will be estimated -- the actual costs that will be calculated by an actuary. I think four years is a solid pilot program. And at the end of the four years, I think it gives you enough room to make your decisions out into the future how has it affected the work force, how has it affected morale, is it good, does it make the plan better, more popular? I guess a long-winded yes.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter. Oh, I'm sorry. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you very much. 411 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 On the DROP Program, can you give us an idea of the impact it has? Does it have any impact on the Pension Fund? Is it good for us, is it bad for us? Having that program, is there an advantage to us?

Mr. Herkness

Yes, ma'am. Councilwoman, when we designed or created the initial parameters of the DROP Plan, the objective was to make it the target of being revenue neutral for the General Fund based on the General Fund's present allocation and then we can calculate what the entrance, the DROP entrance might cost because of the changes in experience. If it causes the average retirement age to increase, that saves the City money technically on an over the long run calculation. If the average age of the participants begins to decrease, that causes an increase in the City's contribution. There is checks and balances within the plan itself, the interest rate, etc. The object is to have a zero cost. The language in the ordinance says that it should not have a material impact on the City's normal cost and General Fund, annual General Fund contribution. That word "material" is going to be 412 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 the largest challenge. What will "material" mean? You know, is it 500,000 a year? If it ends up a million a year, at what point will the Board and the Administration say, "This is costly and, therefore, we want to terminate the program." But we're confident in putting the parameters in that the cost would not get to those levels because -- will not reach those levels because the participation in the plan is percent out of the 11 box, so to speak, and even if it reaches 60 or 65 12 percent of the eligibles at any given time, we're 13 confident that it still will not incur the General 14 Fund to increase its annual contribution. That 15 will be looked at person by person and year by 16 year, and when the Council will be making the 17 decision probably sometime in the fourth year, 18 late in the fourth year of the plan. They will 19 the actual numbers of the DROP Plan costs because 20 people made decisions versus what they what the cost would have been had there been no DROP Plan. It's not an easy number to reach, but that's the objective, and the objective is to have not a material impact on the City' annual contribution.

Councilwoman Tasco

You stated in your 413 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 testimony that there is minority participation in the fund. Are most of those minority firms who participate, are they in the opportunities fund program or how many of them are in who are just regular investors?

Mr. Herkness

They're both in the regular -- in the large fund, we have over 9 percent of the actively managed. That's dollars 10 managed by individual firms and not index accounts are in the large fund. There is -- why don't I let Mark, the Chief investment officer handle that question.

Mr. Bonavitacola

We have approximately four firms that are minority owned in the large fund, managing about $400 million of assets, 350 to 400 million of assets. And the opportunity fund was approved. Presently, there are 11 management firms to manage a total of 11 -- $100 million. There is one more firm that will probably be addressed at the next investment committee meeting. But these firms are relatively small firms who are unable to handle what we would consider a full allocation in the large fund.

Councilwoman Tasco

Those companies in 414 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 the large firms, what is the average investment amount do they manage?

Mr. Bonavitacola

To the large fund?

Councilwoman Tasco

The large fund.

Mr. Bonavitacola

Approximately $100 million.

Councilwoman Tasco

That's basically all fund managers, some fund managers? What's the largest fund managed by any one firm, investment firm?

Mr. Bonavitacola

There is one firm that manages what we consider a tactical asset allocation portfolio which is some what of an index portfolio that's as large as 350 million, but that's not really an actively managed account. The largest actively managed account would be $227 million.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay. And the others fall at $100 million?

Mr. Bonavitacola

The average is 100 million.

Councilwoman Tasco

That would include majority as well as minority funds that are in the large fund? 415 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Bonavitacola

Exactly publicly-owned companies, um. . .

Councilwoman Tasco

One other question. The stock mark, are our fund managers, are they fairly conservative? How have we benefitted from the positive market?

Mr. Bonavitacola

Our objective is to attain the highest risk-adjusted return that a prudent investor could attain with the supervision of various consultants and the oversight of the investment staff of the Pension Board. We are invested in the stock market. We have investments in stocks of foreign companies, we have venture capital investments, so we have the whole spectrum of impact vestments which is how we were able to attain an excess of 14 percent for fiscal year '99. Is it risky? We like to think that it's not very risky, that it's very well diversified and that will continue to produce superior returns, risk-adjusted returns going forward.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman 416 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Miller.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you, Madam President. I'd just like to get some information for myself around the DROP Plan. In your statement it says that when no one reaches normal retirement age, that's when they can enroll in the DROP Plan. So does that mean that if 55 is your normal retirement age, you can't enroll until you reach age 55 and then stay in the program for four years? Or can you enroll at 51 and stay in the program for four years? I never quite understood that.

Mr. Herkness

You cannot -- Councilwoman, you cannot enter the DROP until your normal retirement age, which is 55 for Plan J. So that you can apply within 90 days, but you can't officially go into the DROP and have your contribution cease until you are normal retirement anal. Now it's 55 for Plan J, it would be 60 for Plan Y which is the other tier of the non-uniform plan. For some police and fire it's 45, and in the other tier for police and fire it's age 50. That's why we say normal retirement age. It's 417 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 different for different plans. But you have to be that particular age. You can't go in four years before and then retire.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay.

Mr. Herkness

That's called a drop-back.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. If 1200 people have signed up for the DROP Plan and you predict the number with double over in the next three years, since this is a four-year program which is supposed to be cost-neutral, do you have any opinion yet as to whether we can afford to continue this pension benefit on a long-term basis?

Mr. Herkness

Yes, ma'am. We are confident that the numbers of active participants who enter the DROP would have to go well over 60 percent before there would be a material -- any type of material increase in the City's contribution. We sort of tried to calculate that when we put the parameters in, which is why the interest rate is 4.5 percent. As you know, the City assumes a 9 percent rate on the vestments, so that if the investment return for the Pension Fund 418 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 was not percent, let's say it was 8 percent, the City technically is on the hook, the General Fund, taxpayers, for the extra percent. But by the same token, if they make the percent, the General 6 Fund accrues that benefit over the long-run 7 calculation. So it's 9 percent, we get 4.5 8 percent on a tax-deferred basis to the DROP 9 participant. The other assumed 4.5 percent remains in the pension fund. So that's, you know, on the asset side of the sheet, so to speak. We pay 4.5 out, but we save 4.5 because the normal cost is then not -- there's not a contribution on an annual basis when you're in the DROP. The City's contribution stops because you are technically not accruing any more pension benefit. Even though you're working, your pension is not growing, it is frozen, your DROP account is technically what your pension is. You accrue it for four years or the number of years that you choose to stay in the DROP and then you take that as a lump sum and your DROP account payment is then your monthly annuity payment for the rest of your life as a pensioner. So the City saves the normal cost contribution and it picks up on a 419 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 actuarial adjusted basis to 4.5 percent every year that they assume on the interest investment. So that's how -- someone says, "How can this not cost, you know, where's the shell? This is a shell game. Herkness, you're just --" The thing is, there's dollars on each side of the ledger, so to speak, so that you can target that cost-neutral point, and what will drive that is if there's an enormous increase in the participation. For instance, let's say it's 80 percent or 85 percent, then it's possible that there could be a material increase to the City's contribution. We will be able to calculate that precisely because we'll know who's in the DROP and we'll be able to tell City Council and the Board the precise costs of the decisions that the people have made to go into the DROP Plan.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Good morning. 420 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Herkness

Good morning.

Councilwoman Brown

Good morning, gentlemen. Hello.

Mr. Herkness

Good morning.

Councilwoman Brown

I have a couple follow-up questions to Councilwoman's Tasco' inquiries. First, let me commend or at least I recognize the dramatic improvement that the Board has made with regards to participation of minority and women or at least minority and local. The operative words for me are "local" and "minority." Does local mean Philadelphia or the Philadelphia five-county area or South Jersey?

Mr. Herkness

That is a great question. "Local" has been a very fluid term. We have struggled with that question, what does local mean. The firms that we list as local, some are in Wayne, Pennsylvania; some are in Conshohocken, but I think it's fair to say that the Delaware Valley.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Herkness

Maybe if we get same weather forecast or whatever, but it is a very, ver difficult term. And we debate with the 421 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 trustees on, you know, what do you mean by "local"?

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Herkness

But it has not over the last several years meant just the City of Philadelphia. It has basically been, you know, the Delaware Valley.

Councilwoman Brown

So that would not include Southern Jersey.

Mr. Herkness

Voorhees, New Jersey, some parts of South Jersey, we have one of the our minority firms is in Voorhees, I think, right across the bridge.

Councilwoman Brown

Very well.

Mr. Herkness

So that's considered the Philadelphia area but inside the City of Philadelphia. Local is a more expansive term.

Councilwoman Brown

And there would be those of us who would agree that southern Jersey is a part of Philadelphia. Secondly, "minority," break that down. Women, Latino, and African-American, what are those numbers?

Mr. Herkness

The precise numbers? 422 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Brown

If you can share that. If not today, forward that information.

Mr. Herkness

We can come very close to total amount. The total number is just over 6 percent of the minority firms. The local and 7 minority combined is well over half, it's around 8 62 percent of all the assets that are actively 9 managed so that there's like 25 or more individual 10 managers who are -- the dollars that they manage averages around 100 million each. Of that group, 62 percent of those firms are in the Delaware Valley.

Councilwoman Brown

Very well. Final question. How does professionals of that field hear about opportunities? What's your process for sharing, getting information available to those who are in this particular profession?

Mr. Herkness

I'll let Marc handle that, sure.

Mr. Bonavitacola

I would say that the investment community is very well informed of any ongoing searches for new management firms. The Board has approved two local management firms to 423 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 oversee the opportunity fund, and both firms maintain databases of these firms and, as needed, would solicit additional information from the firms for any replacement allocations in those funds.

Councilwoman Brown

Your answer sparks another question. The Board has approved recent firms. How long is it from the point that an application is submitted for consideration through to a final approval for a particular firm to participate?

Mr. Bonavitacola

It's more of a function of a need.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Mr. Bonavitacola

First thier need, we have to establish a need to hire a firm. The Board then initiates a search. We gather information with the help of outside consultants and then we bring the information to the Board, and it varies depending on the complexity of the assignment or the contract.

Councilwoman Brown

Very well. My finally final request is that could you please provide to the Chair a listing of the firms in 424 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 those categories we just talked about. Thank you very much.

Mr. Bonavitacola

Sure.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you very much, gentlemen. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)

Council President Verna

Thank you, gentlemen.

Mr. Herkness

Thank you.

Council President Verna

The next department is the Sinking Fund. (Sinking Fund witnesses come forward.)

Council President Verna

Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.

Mr. Jannetti

Good morning, President Verna. Vince Jannetti, Secretary of the Sinking Fund Commission. I'm here to testify on behalf of the Commission's Fiscal 2001 operating budget. In the General Fund request for Fiscal 425 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 2001, we are looking at $157 million which includes 47.8 million for lease payment in Class 200, for payments on such facilities as the Criminal Justice Center and the Municipal Services Building. We have 109.7 million for general obligation debt service and other debt-related costs. The requests from the Water Fund all Class 700 totals 152.3 million. This is all for payments of principal and interest on water sewer bonded debit. The Aviation Fund request in the amount of 72.7 million is like the Water Fund, all Class 700 and for payment of airport debt service. The Commission also has a request in the amount of 4.5 million in the car rental tax funds to provide for payments on stadium debt from car rental tax revenues. This concludes a brief testimony -- a brief summary of my brief testimony, and I'd be happy to answer any questions that Council may have.

Council President Verna

Thank you. What are the assumptions in your budget 426 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 with regards to new borrowings and the assumed interest rates?

Mr. Jannetti

On the new borrowings, there's an assumption for a $250 million blight bonds. The interest rate could be up to -- it's projected to be somewhere up to -- it's from 4.5 to 6.5 percent.

Councilwoman Verna

From 4.5 to --

Mr. Jannetti

To 6.5 percent. There's also a provision in the budget for a new transit tax revenue anticipation notes. These are projected to be $275 million at 5 percent.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you very much. Good morning.

Mr. Jannetti

Good morning.

Councilwoman Tasco

On -4, I just need you to explain to me under the General Fund you have a decrease in rent. What does that mean?

Mr. Jannetti

I'm sorry. A decrease in. . . ? 427 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Tasco

"Rent-Other," what does that mean? Is that a decrease?

Mr. Jannetti

Yes, ma'am. That is in the -- we make payments on the Redevelopment Authority's housing revenue bonds.

Councilwoman Tasco

You have to talk slower. I have old ears.

Mr. Jannetti

I'm sorry. We make payments on the Redevelopment Authority's housing revenue bonds, and the cost of those bonds in fiscal 2001 are dropping. So basically that's the decrease in my 200 Class. You're talking about the --

Councilwoman Tasco

$216,400, it says "Rent-Other" on -4.

Mr. Jannetti

Right, the 216,400, yes, for housing revenue bonds.

Councilwoman Tasco

Housing revenue bonds?

Councilwoman Tasco

The long-term, the $1,244,113 in temporary loan notes, explain that to me.

Mr. Jannetti

As I just described the 428 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 annual trans, which is the money we -- the bond issue we sell early in the fiscal year to bridge the gap until February tax revenues in the current year in Fiscal 2000 the costs were 14.9, almost $15 million. The projection for Fiscal 2001 is for $13,750,000 in interest costs which would, you know, be a drop of $4.2 million.

Councilwoman Tasco

And you've calculated in the debt service on the borrowing for the blight removal initiative?

Mr. Jannetti

Yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Tasco

And that's based on $250 million?

Mr. Jannetti

Yes, 250 million with an interest rate 4.5 to 6.5 percent which would be -- I think it comes out to $16.9 million.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay, thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

What is the new borrowing referenced in the Aviation Fund? What is that for?

Mr. Jannetti

I'm not totally sure, Councilman, what the airport is planning on doing. 429 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 During the appropriation of this budget staff at the airport and their consultants gave me these numbers. So. . .

Councilman Nutter

Well, you know, you got to be careful of what people try to put in your budget, you know?

Mr. Jannetti

Yeah, you're correct.

Councilman Nutter

You never know what they might be up to over there. Is Mr. Dubow around or. . . (Rob Dubow comes forward.)

Mr. Dubow

I'll have to get back to you on that. I'll have to check with the airport.

Council President Verna

Mr. Dubow, is that for the Scott Paper building?

Mr. Dubow

I'm not sure.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And Mr. Dubow, from yesterday I think we had reached agreement right before the break that you're going to provide us with information on various aspects of different lines in the Sinking Fund budget on total cost of the blight removal program?

Mr. Dubow

Yes, we will get that to you. 430 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Nutter

Okay. And you'll let us know about the Aviation Fund, right?

Councilman Nutter

Okay, great. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Any other questions from members of the committee? Seeing none the next -- oh, I'm sorry.

Councilwoman Tasco

Where do you note the debt service for the Blight Program, which page is that?

Mr. Jannetti

That's in Class 701 for the interest portion and 702 for the principal in the General Fund.

Councilwoman Tasco

In the general -- okay.

Council President Verna

It's not 701 and 702, that would be City debt.

Mr. Jannetti

The budget provides for a full year's debt service on the blight bonds which would be two interest payments and one principal payment on -9, the center section, the Schedule 700. 431 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

Why wouldn't that be in Class 200?

Mr. Jannetti

Pardon?

Council President Verna

Why would that not be in Class 200?

Mr. Jannetti

When we originally laid the budget or when I originally did the budget, I had it in the wrong class. I was under the impression that it was going to be, you know, a City bond deal.

Council President Verna

What class is it under?

Mr. Jannetti

It should probably be in 704.

Councilwoman Tasco

For reserve payment?

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter. I think it should be in Class 200.

Councilman Nutter

Your testimony is just slightly confusing about -- I mean, you have the dollars in 700. Some of us, I think, believe it should be in 200. How are you going to do 432 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 this?

Council President Verna

He's saying it's 701 and 702.

Mr. Jannetti

Right now, Councilman, where it is in the document is in 701 and 702.

Councilman Nutter

Right.

Mr. Jannetti

I agree that it's improperly classified there.

Councilman Nutter

So you're going to leave it there? Are you going to come back with an amendment sometime later on?

Mr. Jannetti

We can put it in 200.

Councilman Nutter

What, you're just going to send us a new page next week or something? It's in the budget, it got introduced, it's in 700. What do you mean you can just switch it? I mean, it's not like a memo or something.

Mr. Jannetti

Councilman, it becomes a function of how they structure the deal when they do it as to, you know, where it is.

Councilman Nutter

Well, how is a deal structured?

Mr. Dubow

A deal has not been structured yet. 433 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Nutter

Is it in the proper classification or not?

Mr. Dubow

I think we won't be certain until the deal is structured.

Councilman Nutter

And if it's not in the proper classification, then what would you do?

Mr. Dubow

We would have to do a transfer ordinance next year when they structure the deal.

Councilwoman Tasco

Transfer out of 702?

Mr. Dubow

If it's properly in 200, we'll have to do a transfer to move it from 700 to 200. If it works it would be in 704, then we wouldn't need a transfer because it's already in the right class, but we won't know that until the deal is actually done.

Councilwoman Tasco

So you have to leave it in 701 and 702, you can't move it to 200?

Mr. Dubow

We'd have to do a transfer, yeah.

Council President Verna

Mr. Dubow, is the Blight Program going to be against our constitutional debt limit? 434 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

Why would it remain in 700?

Mr. Dubow

The deal at 704 don't go against our debt limit. For instance, we have the reserve payments on some of the garage deals are in 704.

Council President Verna

Would this be a reserve?

Mr. Dubow

We'll wind up having to do a transfer then when the deal is done and we know what the actual numbers are.

Council President Verna

Mr. Dubow, we want something in writing on this, please.

Council President Verna

And can we have it in the next two days?

Mr. Dubow

Yes. We will do it immediately.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)

Council President Verna

Thank you 435 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 very much.

Mr. Jannetti

Thank you.

Council President Verna

City Treasurer is next. (City Treasurer witnesses come forward.)

Council President Verna

Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record.

Mr. Faraldo

Good morning, Madam President and members of City Council. My name is Joe Faraldo, I'm the acting City Treasurer. And with me today is Karen Yancy, Deputy City Treasurer. I appreciate this opportunity to testify before you today about our Fiscal Year 2001 budget request. The City Treasurer's Office is requesting 949,572 from the General Fund and $25,000 from the Grants Revenue Fund for a total request of $974,572 for a total Fiscal Year 2000 budget request. This request is $22,077 increase over fiscal year 2000's estimated obligations, and the entire increase is in Class 100 and the increase represents our fully funding of the negotiated pay increase scheduled for spring of this year. 436 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 What I'd like to do at this point is go through the major expenditure classes of our budget and explain how they relate to our entire budget and what they represent. Our class 100 request is $802,190. This represents 82 percent of our entire budget, and in this class -- this class contains our increase of $22,077, and as I stated, this is the fund, the pay increase due to employees in City 11 Treasurer's Office. 12 Class 200 request for Fiscal 2001 is 13 $143,719. This represents 15 percent of our 14 entire budget request and there is no change in 15 our request from Fiscal Year 2000 to 2001. This 16 class represents in excess of 82 percent -- I'm 17 sorry, 82 percent of this class is allocated to postage, professional services, and maintenance and support of computer equipment. Our Class 300 requests $26,713. This represents approximately 3 percent of our entire budget request. Again, there was no change from Fiscal Year 2000 to 2001. A hundred percent of this expenditure class is allocated to office supplies, printing, and books and publications. 437 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Class 400 request for 2001 is $1,950. This represents less than 1 percent of our entire budget for 2001. The entire amount of this class is allocated to updating and maintaining our equipment. I thank you very much, and I will answer any questions you may have at this time.

Council President Verna

Thank you, sir. What are the four financings you are anticipating in Fiscal 2001, and what is the projected size of each transaction? Are you planning on any refinancing in the coming fiscal year? And if so, have the projected savings been factored into the budget?

Mr. Faraldo

I can tell you what our -- what we anticipated as financings in our 2001 budget what they represented, and then I'll turn it over to Karen Yancy. She's the deputy in our public finance area, she can deal with some of the other aspects of the question. In our budget, we anticipated what typically represented from the City's Treasurer's Office a tran note barring which is a City 438 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 short-term borrowing for working capital purposes we do every year. Last year the size of that deal was 270 million. At this point we probably anticipate something similar in size in terms of a tran note borrowing. The other issues we typically would be involved with would be a G.O., a water deal, and quite frankly, the fourth one could have been -- it's basically we weren't sure exactly which deals may come before us, but typically an airport deal or a non-City related deal may come before us, a Parking Authority deal, a PAID deal. At this point I'd like Karen to maybe discuss any potential deals or size of those deals.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Ms. Yancy

Good morning, Karen Yancy, Deputy Treasurer. The only deal for certain that I know is coming in 2001 is the tran. Of course, there is the possibility of the Blight Program through RDA and maybe an airport deal or Parking Authority deal, which we will be notified by those agencies. As far as any refundings, at this time, because interest rates have gone up a little bit between 6 and 6.5 percent, the City has had an 439 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 opportunity to refund a lot of their bonds at levels of or percent. I don't foresee any 4 refundings in the future as interest rates have 5 increased above levels where we're currently invested.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Just a couple of questions. On -14, under your purchase of services, how much were you able to recover from the private collection agencies for dormant fees due to the City?

Mr. Faraldo

Well, the way this works, Councilwoman, is that when the City recovers from one of these asset locators any monies, the monies are deposited into the City's Grants Revenue Fund, and depending on the commission, the asset locator is entitled to -- it could be anywhere from 10 percent to percent, we record the expenditure 23 in the City Treasurer's budget. So based on this 24 budget estimate of 25,000, assuming that the 25 recovery commission is 25 percent, probably 440 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 somewhere around $100,000.

Councilwoman Tasco

They don't work directly for you, these agents? I didn't hear what you said?

Mr. Faraldo

No. They approach the City. Actually, it's kind of sporadic. It only happens once or twice a year. I think last year was the first year we really realized any revenues, and the portion that we had to remit to the locator was $25,000, so we just basically estimated a similar situation for 2001.

Councilwoman Tasco

So the venders will approach you about collecting fees --

Mr. Faraldo

Yes, they notify us. They tell us that they found monies that are entitled to the City, and when we recover, we pay them.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Faraldo, I notice in your testimony 441 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 on that you had the pleasure of working through PAID to sell the $1.2 billion pension obligation bonds which worked on last year. There was some discussion yesterday about the prospect of structuring some financings to deal with either proposed renovations to the now well-known rat-infested Veterans Stadium or possibly financing the $21 million in voting machines. Could you provide to us through the Chair the Treasurer's Office's suggestion on if we wanted to pursue one or both of those types of transactions how you would structure it and provide for, naturally, the payments for that? Do you think it's possible to structure a transaction of that type for either of those purposes?

Mr. Faraldo

Again, I'd like to defer this question to Karen Yancy, our deputy for public finance. I would, in my opinion, I think probably if we were to structure a deal like this it would be part of a --

Councilman Nutter

Could you either speak up a little or get the mike a little closer?

Mr. Faraldo

Yes. I'm sorry. I'd like to defer this question to Karen Yancy, our 442 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 deputy for public finance. Maybe she can answer it better than I could at this point.

Ms. Yancy

Councilman Nutter, I know yesterday I did say that the City Treasurer's Office does not normally live get involved with pay transactions. Although the pension bond is in our testimony, it's here to represent the present the value savings, but I do have to say that the Treasurer's Office was not intimately involved with the pension fund. We basically worked on the exterior as far as, you know, getting ordinances in or signatures documented and not so much on the structuring of that deal.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Ms. Yancy

I have to say that when it comes to structuring deals in reference to your Veterans Stadium question that we do look to the agencies themselves, we look to the Finance Director, and we also look to our financial advisor and different investment bankers with ideas. We evaluate those ideas and that's, you know, how we would come about structuring what would be best, you know, in line with the City and its intent. 443 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Well, I appreciate the response. I guess my question is a rather narrow one. One, in your professional opinion, is it possible to put together such a deal to either finance $40 million in capital improvements to a facility or provide $21 million for the purchase of new electronic voting machines? Can you do that, can that be done?

Ms. Yancy

I will say, from my opinion, I believe it can be done, however, the scope of the Treasurer's Office is very limited and when you talk about capital -- you know, issuing monies for capital improvements, that would go against the G.O. There is a whole 'nother department within the City which determines, in fact, if we have the revenues to cover a $40 million, you know, G.O. for those types of capital improvements. There's a capital team that would evaluate that question and be able to have an answer for you. It is not under of Treasurer's Office purview.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Thank you.

Ms. Yancy

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Do you have 444 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 any further questions, Councilman?

Councilman Nutter

No. 4

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Madam President. Good morning, Mr. Faraldo. In your written testimony, it says the City Treasurer's Office will also work close with other administration officials and agencies, develop and implement a financing strategy that will permit the timely and cost-effective implementation of the Mayor's blight elimination initiative. Are you referring to public financing?

Mr. Faraldo

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you, sir.

Councilman Goode

Are you referring to financing?

Mr. Faraldo

To the extent it would involve our office, yes.

Councilman Goode

Well, with regard to private investment, are you satisfied with the community reinvestment track record by our depository banks? 445 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Faraldo

I am pretty unfamiliar with that aspect of the --

Councilman Goode

Well, if we're going to invest a quarter of a billion dollars in blight removal and we have deposits in banks, are we also going to look at the private investments that might come from those banks to invest in those neighborhoods?

Mr. Faraldo

Again, I couldn't hear the last part of your question.

Councilman Goode

Are we also going to look at the private investment that might come from our depository banks in those neighborhoods if we're going to spend a quarter of billion dollars on blight removal?

Mr. Faraldo

I'll defer this to Karen again. But quite frankly at this point, our office has had no discussion with anyone in terms of a blight bond deal. Who's going to do it, when it's going to happens, the size, it hasn't been mentioned to us at this point.

Councilman Goode

Well, aside from blight removal initiative, are you examining the community reinvestment track record of depository 446 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 banks?

Councilman Goode

Yes.

Mr. Faraldo

Our office, no. 6

Councilman Goode

Your office does not?

Mr. Faraldo

The City Treasurer's Office does not, no. 10

Councilman Goode

Does anyone within the City examine the track record of community reinvestment with regard to those banks?

Mr. Faraldo

I don't know.

Councilman Goode

Who do you believe would be responsible for that?

Mr. Faraldo

If my memory serves me correctly, at one point the Finance Director's Office was involved with that.

Councilman Goode

Well, the reports that I have received actually say the Finance Department and the Treasurer's Office. But your office is not involved in that?

Mr. Faraldo

I haven't seen those reports, Councilman.

Councilman Goode

I'll be glad to 447 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 furnish them to you, if you'd like.

Council President Verna

I think we have the acting Finance Director here. Perhaps she can answer your question.

Ms. Orfanelli

Councilman Goode, those reports --

Council President Verna

Kindly identify yourself.

Ms. Orfanelli

I'm Linda Orfanelli, acting Finance Director. The reports regarding the community reinvestment of banks were prepared with the help of Treasurer's Office and the Finance Department for over a four-year period. There was significant improvement shown by community -- in this area by the banks, and the report was not done after 1998.

Councilman Goode

There was significant improvement as it relates to home mortgages. Why has the department not examined small-business lending?

Ms. Orfanelli

I was not the Finance Director at that time and I was not involved in the decision to stop doing the report. 448 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Goode

In earlier reports, in the 1995 report, the first report that was done, it said that the reports in the future would examine small-business lending. Is small-business lending in low-income neighborhoods not as important as home mortgages?

Ms. Orfanelli

I was not involved in the decisions or the policies regarding that, so I can't really illuminate this.

Councilman Goode

Well, as acting Finance Director, do you have any intention of continuing to analyze community reinvestment of depository banks?

Ms. Orfanelli

Since I've been acting Finance Director for about a month and a half, I have not looked at any of those policies. I don't know the length of my tenure and I have not really gotten into any of those things at this point.

Councilman Goode

But both the Finance Department and the Treasurer's Office would look to engage in a blight removal initiative that would cost the City a quarter of a billion dollars?

Ms. Orfanelli

I'm sorry? 449 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Goode

But both the Finance Department and the Treasurer's Office would look to engage in a blight removal initiative that would cost the City a quarter of a billion dollars without examining private investment from depository banks?

Ms. Orfanelli

At this point, I can't tell you that. I have no idea.

Councilman Goode

Okay, thank you very much. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.

Councilman Ortiz

Good morning. What is our current debt service payments?

Mr. Faraldo

I would refer that question to the Sinking Fund Commission, Councilman. Debt service payments are not in our budget, they're not a part of our budget.

Councilman Ortiz

Excuse me? I know they're not out of your budget. You say you have debt management issues here and you manage the debt.

Council President Verna

I think we 450 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 have someone else, Councilman, who can answer that question. (Vince Jannetti comes forward.)

Councilman Ortiz

I want to know how much we're paying in terms of debt service and if you can begin specifying as to towards which bonds are the payment's going? I want to know how much we're paying in terms of debt service for the Convention Center.

Council President Verna

Before you respond, please identify yourself for the record.

Mr. Jannetti

Vince Jannetti, secretary of the Sinking Fund Commission. For the first part of your question, Councilman, on the general obligation bonds of the City, in the current fiscal year, fiscal 2000, we were going to spend $39.3 million in interest and we were going to spend $40,753,000 in principal payments. I think you asked about the Convention Center?

Councilman Ortiz

Mm-hmm.

Mr. Jannetti

We don't make the payments on those.

Councilman Ortiz

You haven't yet? 451 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Jannetti

Pardon me?

Councilman Ortiz

We don't pay any payments?

Mr. Jannetti

No, sir. At least not through the Commission.

Councilman Ortiz

In terms of the when you say we have gone to the speculative grade now to investment, could you explain that for the record, the investment grade?

Ms. Yancy

Karen Yancy. Councilman, well, prior to 1992, the City's debt rating was below investment grade. Investment grade means that you get to have -- you get to borrow at lower interest rates than you would if you were below investment grade. The City, having attained an investment grade rating on its G.O. bonds, is a major accomplishment. I'm sure that the current administration will continue to keep the bonds at investment grade and also to see them increased even further in their ratings in other order for us to attain lower borrowing costs.

Councilman Ortiz

How much can we borrow in this fiscal year?

Ms. Yancy

I'm sorry, how much can we 452 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 borrow?

Councilman Ortiz

That's right. (Rob Dubow comes forward.)

Mr. Dubow

Our remaining general obligation capacity is $288.2 million, and then that will change over time as we pay off existing debt or as assessment values change.

Councilman Ortiz

How do you see that changing over the next two years?

Mr. Dubow

Well, if we didn't borrow anything, capacity would continue to increase. But since we plan to also do borrowings over time, that capacity will go down each year. We continue to seek authorizations. It actually works off voter approved authorizations. Each time we get an authorization, our ability --

Councilman Ortiz

I mean, we have a five-year plan. What is our projection in terms of the next four years.

Mr. Dubow

We project -- it's actually shown in the capital program. Based on the borrowings we anticipate for our capital program, we project that by 2006 we'll actually be down to about 30 million in capacity. 453 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Ortiz

In your testimony, you say that you're working with other agencies to develop and implement the financing strategy that will permit the timely and cost-effective implementation of the Mayor's blight elimination initiative. Where are we on that?

Ms. Yancy

That process has not proceeded very far, and basically that statement just says that the Treasurer's Office is there to support the agency and the program once the Administration has decided what avenue they would like to take.

Councilman Ortiz

So this is just a phrase.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you. Could you detail to the President the minority firms that are currently involved in all of our transactions that you reach out to in terms to bring them in terms of bonds work and so on and so on, and how many of them are local and how many of them are from outside the City?

Mr. Faraldo

The five money managers we currently utilize in the treasurer office, two 454 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 of them are minority firms.

Councilman Ortiz

Are they from the City.

Mr. Faraldo

No. They're not local. One's based in Houston and one's based in Virginia.

Councilman Ortiz

Where are the other three?

Mr. Faraldo

The other three are out of, New York, Harrisburg, and North Carolina.

Ms. Yancy

On the bond issuance side, we have several minority firms that we use, investment banking firms, bond counsel firms, and currently offhand I do not have a number but would be happy to provide you a list of those firms.

Councilman Ortiz

Well, not a list of the firms, but how many transactions have occurred and the involvement of different firms, be they local or outside of the City, and whether they're black or Latino or women?

Ms. Yancy

I can provide that to you in writing.

Councilman Ortiz

To the President.

Ms. Yancy

To the President. 455 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)

Council President Verna

Thank you both very much. The Procurement Department is next. (Procurement Department witnesses come forward.)

Council President Verna

Good morning, Commissioner. Thank you for your patience. We do have copies of your testimony, so if you would like to give it to us in brief, we'd appreciate it. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Good morning, Madam President, members of City Council. I am Louis Applebaum, the Commissioner of the Procurement Department. With me today are Deputy Commissioners of Procurement Marla Mason and Harry Hillock; our administrative services director, Deborah Beatrice; and our MIS director Alice Deyoung. 456 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 I am going to present for your consideration the Procurement Department's Fiscal Year 2001 budget. James Roundtree sitting to my left, the director of Minority Enterprise Council will follow my presentation with separate testimony on the City's efforts to create equal access to business opportunities with the City. You do have my full testimony and I will briefly summarize the highlights. 2 million. This represents an increase of $731,000 above Fiscal Year 2000 projected obligations. The additional fundings of $231,000 in Class 100 provides for the negotiated wage increases and full funding for the authorized position level of 79 employees. An increase of 500,000 in Class 200 provides for the increased costs of mandated advertising. Our major accomplishments this year includes the implementation of the new speed application and the services, supply, and equipment division. Speed will decrease bid turnaround time for SS & E bids by producing 457 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 electronic bid tabulations, work sheets, and templates for processing bid award letters. Contract documents for public works previously prepared by the Law Department are now prepared electronically in Speed and mailed directly to the vendors for signature. In addition, information from Speed is now on the City's Internet for reference by the operating departments that manage construction projects for the City. The Procurement Department is also responsible for maintaining the inventory records for all City-owned furniture and equipment. To improve inventory tracking and reporting capabilities, we have implemented an automated personal property database. This database has real time and on-line access for update, query, and reports and replace our procurement's punch card input. City departments now have inquiry and reporting capabilities. Our current objectives include participation in the electronic voting machine procurement committee in accordance with the November 3, 1998 voter referendum mandating this initiative. The department has prepared and 458 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 released the requests for proposal for the purchase of direct recording electronic voting machine system, and vendors submissions are now being evaluated. Vendors have made presentations and we are scheduling trips to visit jurisdictions on the voting days. The next step in the process will be to select a vendor and enter into negotiations. As part of the mayor's initiative to eliminate abandoned vehicles from City streets, we are working with the Managing Director's Office, the Police Department, L&I to procure salvers to remove, store, and dispose of abandoned vehicles. The procurement goal is to expand the number of salver companies with which the City contracts for the removal of abandoned vehicles and to improve the policies governing the public auction of City vehicles. The department is responsible for overseeing the City's Class 300 inventory consisting of consumable materials and supplies. To improve the warehousing of this inventory, a consultant was retained to conduct the warehouse and inventory management study. The Procurement 459 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 will participate in the implementations of recommendations resulting from this study which is expected to be completed during this fiscal year.

Council President Verna

The Public Works Division is finalizing the first update to the standard contract requirements that are part of the City's construction contract. This document which has not been revised since 1979 is being rewritten in conjunction with the Law Department and various City agencies. When completed, the document will reflect modern terms and conditions and will also allow for the elimination of certain other contract documents now in use. Madam President, this concludes my testimony. I will now turn the floor over to Jim Roundtree, director of MBEC. We will then be glad to answer any questions you or the other members of City Council may have regarding our testimony. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you, very much, Commissioner. Mr. Roundtree?

Mr. Roundtree

Good morning, Madam Chair. My name is James Roundtree, the Deputy 460 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Finance Director and an executive director of the Minority Business Enterprize Council. Today I have with me Kenneth Hitchcock who is e deputy of operations for the Minority Business Enterprise Council. We are pleased to request for the Minority Business Enterprise Council FY 2001 budget appropriation of $1,1632,000 (sic) which is increase $9,237 over Fiscal Year 2000 operating budget. The increase to MBEC operating budget is the result of the annualization of this year's 4 percent increase which will be implemented on March 15th. The MBEC is charged with administering the City of Philadelphia anti-discrimination and Affirmative Action purchasing policy under Executive Order 193 and formally under Chapter 17-500 of the Philadelphia Code. On December 31, 1998, the following legislation for Minority Business Enterprize Council of 17-500 expired. The Executive Order 193 was established to provide equal access and opportunity for all businesses in the City contracting program. It ensures that the City's funds are not used directly or indirectly to promote, reinforce, or perpetrate discrimination 461 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 on contracting practices. This concludes my brief testimony this morning, and I'm available to answer any questions.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Mr. Roundtree. Councilman Clarke?

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

You're welcome.

Councilman Clarke

Good morning, gentlemen. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Good morning.

Mr. Roundtree

Good morning.

Councilman Clarke

Mr. Applebaum, I asked a question yesterday with respect to voting machines. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I heard the question.

Councilman Clarke

The question essentially was what services that were going to be provided to people who have to administer these new voting machines? We find that a lot of times, 462 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 a lot of these individuals are somewhat older and may have difficulty acclimating themselves to this new technology and I'm just a little concerned about that. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Councilman, we have a lot of bright older people around, you know that.

Councilman Clarke

Well, I say that and that I myself have difficulty acclimating myself to new technology. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I fully understand. Included in the RFP for the voting machines is quite an elaborate program for training. We have included in the purchase price of the equipment the vendor will include training initially for 1681 people, and we hope to attract those young people from colleges to assist and be placed at each polling place during the first time we use the new equipment. These people will be trained thoroughly in the new equipment and will be assigned to each polling place. In addition, they will also be preparing training programs and train the existing people that you talk about who do work at the polling places, but we don't feel 463 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 comfortable that that's adequate so that's why we're bringing in 1681 new people. Also, the training programs, the training programs, the videotapes, etc., etc., will be handled via minority vendors who will be brought in by the prime contractor to handle that part of the program. So we feel that through that requirement in the RFP that the day that we go live there will be adequate people adequately trained to properly handle the brand new equipment.

Councilman Clarke

Let me understand this because this is important. As a ward leader, I need to know this. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We understand the problems that many people have had and we anticipate not having any problems with the brand new system.

Councilman Clarke

All right, now, currently, the process is that individuals are called to various locations throughout the City to receive this training one, two, three weeks prior to the actual Election Day. Is that what you plan 464 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 on doing with this new training program? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We are going to negotiate with the vendors and have them prepare for us the training program. We know that we will have -- they will be required to have certain training classes. The first goal is to have attract 1681 people who will be willing to go to school for as long as it takes and then provide the transportation to be at each polling place the day of the first election. They will be adequately trained. And whether it takes -- whether it's one location or two locations, that will be up to the training company. We've had some -- in our presentations, we've had some very good vendors training companies who are adequately going to cover that program. And I feel real confident that there's some real good vendors that I've worked with and Jim has worked with that will handle that.

Councilman Clarke

Can you keep me up to date and other members of Council up to date on this as you proceed and you get more specificity in terms of the arrangements that you're going to make because this is very important, as a person 465 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 who had a landslide victory -- that was a joke. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I will be glad to have constant communications with you, but if I may, I can bring the Councilpeople up to date on where we are now. We did issue, as everyone knows, an RFP. The RFP was released on August of '99. We had a mandatory proposal meeting that was attended by five vendors. The RFP was open October of 1999. Four presented RFPs. From a period in late November, each vendor presented their program. We had eyeball-to-eyeball presentations. They brought in their equipment that was reviewed by the complete committee, including the MBEC was at each presentation and also the voting -- the City commissioners who are also participating. The committee is now making -- will be making visitations to jurisdictions to review election processes. Actually, today we were planning to go to Baltimore, but that was called off. February 29th we'll be in Virginia, March the 7th there is an election in Baltimore, Maryland, so we'll be there. Also on March 7th there's an election in 466 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Columbus, Ohio; people will be visiting that. And on March the 10th there will be an election in Denver, Colorado; a people will be going there. We are visiting jurisdictions that have the machines sold to them by the vendors that we are dealing with. Mid to late March, the committee will make our determinations and we will negotiate with the selected vendor. The equipment that we're getting are call full ballot direct recording electronic voting machines, which means the people will go into the voting place, similar to what they do now. They will walk into a machine that will be covered, have protection with a curtain to give them privacy. They will look at the full ballot as they look at today. They'll have lights on each little block. And if you want to vote for someone, you just touch the block, So it's a touch screen. You touch the block, that will record your vote. When you're all done making your selections, you push a button, the vote is recorded. It's electronically captured within the guts of the machine. At the end of the night, the machine will print out a paper tape with the 467 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 totals, but more important, at the end of the night you will receive a very small electronic cartridge that will come out of the machine which will contain all of the totals of the vote for that day. The cartridge will be delivered to ten regional tabulation centers throughout the City. The cartridge will be entered into a reader machine that will be transmitted to Election Central, and all of the totals will be automatically handled through electronic media. And it is our goal and hope that within two hours or so after the conclusion of the election, the count will be done and it will be over. That's a brief description of what we're anticipating to get.

Councilman Clarke

Okay, Thank you. One other question relating to a public hearing that was chaired by Councilman Ortiz on a resolution that we had submitted with respect to the abandoned vehicles and creating this RFP process for salvers. Can you kind of bring me up to date, or is that also going to be incorporated into the Mayor and Managing Director's -- COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I can report 468 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 the procurement role to date on that particular program. We did invite to a meeting all salvers from four counties within the Delaware Valley, Montgomery, Bucks, Chester, and Delaware. Our goal is to expand the number of salvers that we have working with us in the City of Philadelphia. We currently have, I believe there's 9 Philadelphia salvers who are currently working 10 with the Police Department in removing cars. Our 11 goal is to expand that number as high as we can. 12 We had a meeting. We invited 140 salvers from the 13 surrounding counties to come to our meeting. 14 Seventeen companies showed up, and we believe as 15 we sit here today we have at least 10 to 12 who 16 will be signing up and they will be added to our 17 existing salvers to help us in our program to eliminate abandoned vehicles from the City of Philadelphia.

Councilman Clarke

My question was related to the particular resolution that called for the selection per police district. And we wanted somebody to ultimately be responsible because in its current form, if any of those salvers decide that they don't did want to pick up 469 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 a vehicle, they're not mandated to do that. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We have worked with the Police Department, and I feel that that would best answered by the Police Department who I know are taking steps to accomplish what you're suggesting. But I think in all fairness, the Police Department should respond to your question because this is a specific Police Department issue, and I think they'll be here today and they will respond to that.

Councilman Clarke

Okay, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very much. Would you like to have that responded to now, Councilman? Is it possible to have a response to his question now? While you're coming forward, when do we anticipate using new machines, Commissioner? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Excuse me, what was the question?

Councilwoman Blackwell

When new machines? When do we anticipate using them, for which election? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We anticipate 470 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 having the machines ready for use in a primary election of May of the year 2001.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you.

Mr. Martz

Councilman Clarke, my name is Joe Martz the Managing Director of Philadelphia. I don't want to get too far ahead of the Mayor on this because I believe he will be making a specific announcement about that, our actual abandoned auto program in the next couple of weeks. But what you were asking about the specifics of tying salvers to a particular police district is part of the program and part of the reason that we went about getting some of these outside vendors to see if we couldn't do a little better coordination that way. So we are going to try that out as part of the pilot.

Councilwoman Blackwell

So in other words, Mr. Managing Director, you're saying you anticipate that this issue will be resolved when this plan is announced?

Mr. Martz

I believe what we'd like to do is to find out if, A, it works, and then to try it at a specific location and then give you measurable results that we can report back. And 471 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 if it does, then we would be expanding it.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Councilman Clarke, does that answer your question? A follow-up, Councilman Rizzo?

Councilman Clarke

I yield to the Councilman.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you very much.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Certainly.

Councilman Rizzo

I've done some research and I've learned that in Chicago and New York, both Chicago and New York have made money on their abandoned vehicle removal. New York, 2.3 million; Chicago, 3 million. I'm hoping we're exploring the same course of action where we could turn this abandoned car problem into a money-maker for the City of Philadelphia both like New York and Chicago.

Mr. Martz

Councilman, we are. As a matter of fact, there is two paths, and again, I don't want to get too far out ahead of the Mayor on the specific issue, but there are two courses of action that we're taking and we're taking them simultaneously. One is that we're going to correct the existing system as we operate under 472 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 right now. But also, we need to have some legislative from Harrisburg and there are some bills that are both the House and the Senate that we're working with that we think will lead us to the path, to the ultimate goal of turning this into at least a no-cost situation, but possibly a revenue-producing one.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you. I just wanted to make sure we're on that track.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you. Councilman Clarke, do you have other questions about this or other issues?

Councilman Clarke

Yes, one last question. As a part of that discussion, I don't know if anybody's here from the City Solicitor's Office, there was an issue about the federal consent decree, it's a modification on elimination and we never got a response. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Elimination of what?

Councilman Clarke

Pardon me? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Elimination of what?

Councilman Clarke

Councilman Ortiz? 473 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Ortiz

Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Councilman Ortiz, you wanted to follow up on that question?

Councilman Ortiz

Yes.

Councilwoman Blackwell

The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.

Councilman Ortiz

I've had meetings with CLS and I've informed the Chief of Staff, Stephanie Suber and she was -- Stephanie Franklin-Suber. I don't want to get fired. (Laughter.)

Councilman Ortiz

We're supposed to have a meeting with the Mayor, Councilman Clarke, myself and so on, but I'm still waiting for a date for that meeting together with CLS because CLS is willing to make modifications and go forward in terms of making the consent decree workable or eliminating it altogether, if possible.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Councilman Ortiz, for those who were not here or weren't privy to that conversation, would you explain more in detail what you're talking about?

Councilman Ortiz

Well, during the hearings that City Council had last year, the 474 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Police Department, the Chief of Police brought up the issue and the City Solicitor brought up the issue that one of the biggest stumbling blocks was essentially a consent decree that the City entered into with several plaintiffs in late 1979, 1980. As a matter of fact, I participated on the other side in that. (Laughter.)

Councilman Ortiz

Well, the issue was that there were many cars being taken out of neighborhoods that used to belong -- that had owners. And Community Legal Services went into court to prevent the City from doing that. And the Court entered this order, and right now, what it does is that the City has to give at least a 13-day period and then notice to the owners and so on and so on, so it lengthens the day, the time of being able to detail when a car is abandoned, when it gets notified, and then when it finally can be towed away. We've been discussing with legal services the consent decree and the time period, and I think those things are doable. The issue is now having a meeting with the Administration, the City Solicitor and the Chief of Staff and the 475 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 mayor to be able to work out the arrangements and how do we proceed from there. So a meeting is to be set by the Chief of Staff with the Mayor and City Council and Legal Service.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you. Would you make sure that the Chair knows and that certain Councilman Clarke is made aware of that?

Councilman Ortiz

We're trying to get a date.

Councilwoman Blackwell

I know. I'm waiting on another issue, I'm waiting for a meeting as well. We understand. Thank you very much. Councilman Clarke?

Councilman Clarke

Thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

I'd like to go back to the voting machines in terms of the training. How intimately involved is the Election Bureau in this process? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: The Election Bureau you're speaking of are the city 476 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 commissioners?

Councilwoman Tasco

Yes. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: The city commissioner are involved. They have been party to every presentation made by the voting machine manufacturers. The city commissioners are going to visit two jurisdictions, they're going to Denver and to Columbus, Ohio, to go to see two different companies that are actually running elections those days. Bob Lee, the supervisor of the whole operation, is part of our procurement team. So on balance, I would say that the city commissioners and the people who are responsible for the voting are intimately involved in the process.

Councilwoman Tasco

How did you arrive at the -- I can figure out the number, 1,000 people you recruited. Did you say they were coming from colleges? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Our goal -- during many of our discussions, we were trying to figure out how we were going to get people to perform that service, and someone suggested --

Councilwoman Tasco

And the service is 477 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 to -- COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: To be train adequately on these machines and be at each election district the day of the election, to be there early in the morning to supervise the election judges opening the machines, closing the machines, doing whatever has to be done and being there --

Councilwoman Tasco

You will pay them?

Mr. Applebaum

And staying there all day to observe the election and make sure that everything goes right.

Councilwoman Tasco

Is this a one-shot deal on the first time or is this an ongoing? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We included in the RFP and included in the price is a one-shot deal. We are then asking them to give us a price in case we decide to do that for the second time. So there's a separate price that they're giving us. We'll have the option after that first election to determine whether we'll need them again for the second election.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, it might be good if you would ask those of us who run the 478 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 election every year to identify someone from the neighborhood who would like to be trained. That person, in addition to being there those two times, if we wanted to have them later on, we could access those individuals. They come from the neighborhood, they don't necessarily have to be politicos, but there are people who live -- there are young people who live in my neighborhoods where I could ask them to be a part of this training rather than have someone come from the University of Penn or Temple who might not be here the next time around. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: That's a great idea. In addition to the colleges, we were also going to go to the high schools to get students who are the senior year of high school to also learn the system and participate in the program. But I would say that if there are people who in the neighborhoods would like to do that and are qualified, the company that will be doing the training will certainly be looking for those names, and we can get -- you can get in touch with that company to suggest the people.

Councilwoman Tasco

I'm real concerned 479 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 about the training because we have a debacle over at PGW because of the lack of training and the time frame for the training. So, you know, we do this, those of us who run elections every six months, know what it takes to get that done and the commitment of the people who are going to do it. And so if I know the young man or lady who lives in my division and I've recruited them to be there, they will be there. Then after the second time, they become part of the payroll, right? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Well, as understand it, under the law, the people who work at the polling places are elected. I think they're called judges.

Councilwoman Tasco

Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We cannot control those people. They're elected; how that happens, I don't know. Our main goal is to have people that we select who are trained adequately, and they could be high-school students, they could be the people that you're talking about from the neighborhood, who will absolutely positively understand those machines, understand the process, and we'll end up with at least the first election 480 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 being successful and then we can go forward.

Councilwoman Tasco

But at the same time, you're going to have to train those judges of election. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Correct.

Councilwoman Tasco

They have to be trained simultaneously with your volunteers.

Mr. Applebaum

Right.

Councilwoman Tasco

Because once the volunteers leave, you will have a vacuum if you haven't adequately trained the judges of elections. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Councilwoman, number one, these people will not be volunteers, they will be paid. They will be paid for their services. They also, as I mentioned earlier, part of the training program will be two parts, training the what's called the students, but also training the judges of elections who were there who are on the books, so to speak, right now, they will also be adequately trained. So we'll have two groups of people adequately trained at each polling place.

Councilwoman Tasco

I want to yield to 481 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Councilman Nutter.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Mr. Commissioner, in fact, I was just told by former commissioner that they went to Denver and really had mass chaos because a lot of the people there at polling places had not been to get instructions and that if you don't have people at each polling place who are experienced and who can guide that process with judges who some may know and some may not know, we could be in real trouble. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: That's precisely why in the RFP we demand that 1681 people will be adequately trained to have one person at each polling location on that May date.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Councilwoman Tasco, you wanted to yield?

Councilwoman Tasco

I want to yield to Councilman Nutter.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Councilman Nutter and Councilman Kenney also wanted to also follow up. All right, Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Commissioner Applebaum, first, are any of these elections 482 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 taking place in Puerto Rico, St. Maarten, or any of these other locales that you were talking about? I just want to go on the site visit to see the machines, to see how they operate. (Laughter.)

Councilman Nutter

That's the throw-away question. Now to the more serious issue. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I won't responds to your question.

Councilman Nutter

That's all right. Commissioner, you know that I respect you greatly and you've been going through a process to get the machines, you know the Council worked on this and we had hearings, Councilman Cohen and I put forward the bill, all of that, that's wonderful. Now we're getting to the deeper details and the mechanics on how this can function and operate. So first, I would be deeply concerned, I mean, I love people and, you know, I was young one time, too, but if you're going to have high school and college students as the primary trained people, you know, they have to go to school on Election Day. Election Day is a school day for at 483 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 least high-school students who should be in school and most college students are still in school on Election Day, so that's first. Or have already left. If we have a late election in May, many of the colleges get out first week in May, so they're gone, they're back to Poughkeepsie somewhere. So my concern is, as the Councilwoman raised, and we don't want to complete destroy the program, but the voters in Philadelphia for the most part are used to going to their polling place, they either know a committee person or know they know the judge of election or the machine operator. These are people in the neighborhood who they know who they will take some level of direction from. The prospect of having an unknown high school or college student responsible for the operation of the machine at Election Day, I think could be a little bit of a problem. And second, I mean, did you in the training component, did you give thought to first targeting the judge of election and/or the machine operator for those particular polling places -- The machine operator is not elected, the judge is -- to be the primary people for the training 484 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 because they are used to conducting elections? I mean, you just can't throw a person -- knowledge about the machine is one thing. The conduct of an election at the polling place on Election Day takes a person a fair amount of time and training and experience just to do it. I mean, those are some of our concerns. We don't necessarily have to decide all of these issues today. What I would like to strongly recommend is some opportunity for many of us who are involved in that particular side of the business to have a chance to sit down and talk with you in deeper detail about a lot of these factors. You have the Committee of Seventy and their folks and ward leader, elected officials, and a whole bunch of people who, you know -- I mean we do part of this for a living. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Councilman, let me respond. Number one, the Committee of Seventy is an active participant in our election procurement team.

Councilman Nutter

I know that. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We're using their expertise. 485 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Nutter

Okay. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Let me respond to your question of concern over training. We are very much concerned that at each precinct it goes smoothly. Our goal was not to have someone come in to run that election. Our goal was to have the 1681 people trained to be at that particular location to work with the people who you're talking about anyway. So this is just a backup.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: It's an additional stopgap to help us to make sure that there's no problem.

Councilman Nutter

This is like a technical support person at the polling place? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Absolutely correct.

Mr. Voight

That's exactly the point, if I might interject.

Council President Verna

Mr. Voight, excuse me. Kindly identify yourself for the record.

Mr. Voight

My name is Fred Voight, I'm with the Committee of Seventy. I'm part of 486 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 the procurement team who was asked to serve by the prior Mayor. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: If I can just before you continue, just to respond, what I'd like to read is one sentence that's in the RFP that will clearly identify what we're attempting to do, and it's called -- it's under System Support Services, "For the May 15, 2001 primary election and at the City's sole option the November 6, 2001 election, the successful proposer must provide at its sole cost one person per voting district fully trained in all operational tasks of the DRE voting device. The successful proposer must provide separate pricing for the November 6th election. The successful proposer will recruit Philadelphia residents to satisfy this requirement. In accordance with the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, the city commissioners will appoint each of these individuals as an overseer for a specific voting division. The individuals will be required to be present in their assigned polling places from 6:30 a.m. until the district tabulation is complete to oversee and ensure proper an efficient operation 487 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 of the DRE voting devices and to provide assistance to polling place officials if necessary." So it's a backup, it's two levels.

Councilman Nutter

I understand, right. And my last question on this, because I'm actually still working off of a yield from Councilwoman Tasco, is there will be coordination between this person selected by the company to be at the polling place for 13, hours that day and 12 the Election Board so that everyone knows who the 13 other is and what their role and responsibility 14 and who can do what and who can't do what and all of those kind of issues?

Mr. Voight

This provision is actually put in at the request of the commissioners themselves. And the reason that it's still work in progress is that the primary for us is obviously is training the Election Board, the people in our divisions who are going to be there responsible for running elections forever, so they've got to know how to do this. This is not intended to be a substitute for them in any way, but by the same token, this is not meant to be 488 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 some kind of perk that's going to get members of the election board angry that they're being treated unfairly. It's really going to be worked so that this is a one-time assistance.

Councilman Nutter

Well, are the judges and the machine operators going to be trained also?

Mr. Voight

Absolutely, absolutely. The whole training, the thrust of the training is for the Board.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Voight

That's really where we're going to make it or not make it. Having this person for one election isn't going to do it for the next four elections. That's really the thrust of it.

Councilman Nutter

That's right.

Mr. Voight

Identifying who and where you get that person is a subject of continuing discussion.

Councilman Nutter

All right.

Mr. Voight

Your point is well taken, but the whole point is that there's a logistics problem, there's a reliability problem, there are 489 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 all sorts of problems in terms of ensuring that someone is there doing this job on Election Day. Work in progress. Hopefully, this process will continue as the procurement process continues because it really is important that these machines be purchased and put into place for the 2001 elections. We don't want to see these going into place in an election where we have a high turnout. We want it ideally to go into place at the lowest turnout election in the four-year cycle which is the DA's election in 2001. The ideal is to get it done, use it for the primary for the first time, the lowest turnout election of all. If you can't get it done then, then fall back to November. The ideal is, and that's the way the RFP has been written, the whole process has been approached, get it done for that spring primary.

Councilman Nutter

Madam Chair, I was asking questions based on a yield from Councilwoman Tasco, but my light was on earlier and I'd like to not lose my place in the queue.

Council President Verna

Very well. The Chair now recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Now, I have other 490 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 questions, but if other councilmembers want to talk about the voting machines while they're here, I will yield to them on the voting machines but I want to come back to my time.

Council President Verna

Do you have questions on the voting machine? The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you very much. Commissioner, you indicated in your testimony that it was going to be the sole cost of the vendor. Well, in reality, it's going to be o our costs because we're buying a machine that's a part of the contract. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Of course.

Councilman Kenney

One things that I would suggest is that since you're going to go look at elections -- and I don't mean this for Fred because I know Fred's got experience in this. If you're going to go look at elections in Columbus and Chicago and Baltimore and wherever, we ought to look at election here in Philly. Have your people go out into the polling places in Philadelphia, in South Philly, Northeast, West 491 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Philly, and see how that ebb and flow of that election works because part of the problem here, and I think it's been alluded to by a number of people who have questioned and have concerns, for a Penn student in a division in the 1st ward on a new election or a 2nd ward or 56th ward on a new election with a new voting machine, and you're look are for trouble. One of the things that I've learned and heard over the years, there's a whole staff of people that are there already, from the judge, minority inspector, the majority inspector, the clerk, all of these people that are in there and for years have been sorely underpaid and underappreciated for the length of time and the work they do that day. Pay them the extra money or look at potentially paying them the extra money, have a roving supervisor of some kind to be responsible for 10 or or 25 different 20 divisions. If there's a problem, they pick up the phone, beep somebody, have them come and fix the machine. You're dealing with 1981 people seems to me to be a amazingly difficult and complicated task of placing them, finding them, training them, and then having them interact with these people 492 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 that have run elections, some of them for and 25 years. While I recognize the desire to do this right and to get off on the right foot, I mean, this is going to be a big change for people to begin with, and hopefully it's going to be a big positive change. I hate to see it get off with some problem at a polling place DA's Office and Fred's people and the police have to come respond to because there's some dispute as to what's going on in the division. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I just would like to comment on one and then Fred would like to comment. Realize that the committee has been working very closely with the City commissioners an all of their people and also with the Committee of Seventy, so we are learning from everyone and they certainly know all there is to know about locations and they are the ones who made the requirement that we put that in the RFP.

Councilman Kenney

I think your committee members need to go out and spend a couple hours in a division in the polling place just to kind of see the dynamic of it. It's 493 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 different in any state and in every city in the country, and it's certainly unique here, good and bad. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Everyone on the committee is a Philadelphia resident and all of us have all voted and I personally have seen it and understand it and so has all the rest.

Councilman Kenney

I just want to move on to one other aspect of the machines.

Council President Verna

Excuse me, I think Mr. Voight also would like to be recognized.

Mr. Voight

Again, this is not fixed in stone, this particular element. It's a work in progress, and as a work in progress to try to ensure, number one, that the Election Boards themselves are well trained. And two, that there's a backup. And how that backup, where comes from, and how its drawn is still a work in progress. All of the people involved are intimately familiar with how elections are conducted. I have spent more time in my life in the voting machine warehouse than probably anyone other than Tommy Montag (ph).

Councilman Kenney

I excluded you in 494 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 my comment. I said from the beginning you were --

Mr. Voight

What we've tried to do is to give them nine election people the benefit of that. The choices of the jurisdictions that we're going to see in part are not an attempt to replicate Philadelphia. One of the ironies is, you know, when you go to someplace else you go, "Well, gee, it's like us because it's got X-number of people." Well, it's not like us. We are unique in many respects. But we try to pick jurisdictions that most adequately reflect the kinds of things we want in a desirable system. That's why we picked Baltimore, that's why we picked Fairfax, Virginia. In Fairfax, Virginia, it was just a Republican primary, but it's the kind of machine that we may want to have. And this is the final stage. I mean, this thing has been going on for -- well, since Commissioner Tasco was involved and before that. So this is nothing new. It's a culmination of a process, not the beginning.

Councilman Kenney

Let me ask you a question about the vendors. How many companies in this country make voting machines? 495 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Voight

Depends on what kind. What we did, the methodology that we pursued was to identify through the Federal Elections Commission first every company. Second, what we did was identify those companies that are certified in Pennsylvania that make full-face ballots. Now, there are lots of different jurisdictions that use punch cards, they use all different kind of ways, they use imaging systems, they use scanning systems. But based upon the prior work of the committee that was appointed by the Mayor back in 1994 that was bipartisan, included everybody, it was decided that what we wanted to have in Philadelphia was a system not dissimilar to the one we have, that our voters for good and sufficient political reasons in a positive political fight like to see the whole thing. They don't want to go in and see a scroll where they see part of the ballot, but they want to see the whole face. That's what our voters are used to.

Councilman Kenney

How many companies make those machines?

Mr. Voight

Well, those are the people 496 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 that responded to the RFP.

Councilman Kenney

How many?

Mr. Voight

There were four. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: No, I believe there were eight companies certified within the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania who could respond to our RFP.

Councilman Kenney

To a full-face request. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: They were all invited -- no, I'm sorry. There was not eight that said full face. There were five had full face. Only four came and submitted RFPs.

Councilman Kenney

How many are we considering now? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We are evaluating all four. I will -- let me say, we're in the midst of the evaluation, so let's say that we are evaluating the four companies who did present their RFPs. We have not made any cuts yet.

Councilman Kenney

Will there be a cut down to a certified list -- not certified list, but a short list. 497 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We will probably end up with a short list of two, yes.

Councilman Kenney

Of two. Now, of any of those companies, the four or the potentially short list of two, we've had this discussion about and we've talked about nothing but purchase of machines for this whole discussion. Have we ever investigated or looked at the possibly at a lower cost over time leasing, lease-purchase, leasing the machines with a maintenance contract? Has there been in other type of scenario other than a straight out $21 million purchase. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: At the appropriate time during the course of negotiations with the successful vendors, we will ask them and entertain alternate financing programs such as leasing. I would also like to add --

Councilman Kenney

Excuse me, before you add that, are there potentially any companies of the four that would say they wouldn't be interested in that kind of arrangement and it would be eliminated from the short list? Isn't appropriate to kind of ask that question now 498 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 before we short-list them? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Let's say any company who wants to do business with anyone with that size of order can provide alternate financing through leasing by going to independent companies. I mean, there's no magic to go to a major leasing company and write a lease, so I cannot imagine anybody saying, "We're not going to talk to you because you're going to lease." So at the appropriate time, that will be a point of discussion. I would like to add one other thing that I hear a lot of conversation about alternate methods of funding the voting machines and whether we can use an authority or not. I have not checked with the City Solicitor's office or the Finance Department with that, but I do know that last year or two years ago we successfully acquired our automatic meter reading equipment for the Water Department through the Municipal Authority. So I believe that we will be able to handle these if it's so desired through one of the authorities.

Councilman Kenney

Is the final 499 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 selection and recommendation and then request either for outright purchase or lease going to be coming back here to Council? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: No. 6

Councilman Kenney

Why? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Today it's in the capital budget. If the capital budget is approved, it's like anything else, the process continues, award is made, and so forth and so on.

Councilman Kenney

A $21 million expenditure. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We've had larger expenditures that have gone through that once they are adopted and included in the capital budget, they then proceed along its course.

Councilman Kenney

Would you have any opposition to it having coming back at some point in time to Council for information and/or approval? I mean, we're talking about a major expenditure that will have an affect of the average citizen's life over the next 10 to 15 years. So at some point in time, four years from now if we do this deal with X company and it 500 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 doesn't work out and Commissioner Applebaum is no 3 longer the commissioner and Fred is -- COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Are you telling me something?

Councilman Kenney

The question is, is that I have some discomfort with once we agree, once we approve the money that somehow it is now totally out of our hands and you guys can go and do what you want. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I feel that if City Council would so desire to have a briefing, we certainly could do that, a briefing and a discussion. But realize, we're up against the clock.

Councilman Kenney

We've had some briefings lately that have been very elusive, so I'm a little worried about briefings. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Let's say we're up against the clock. Our goal is to have equipment ready for us delivered January in the year 2001, ready for an election May 2001. In order to accommodate that, most likely we would have to make an award to the successful company by July 1st of this year, So the time is short. 501 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Now, I believe that based on what you're saying there that if City Council would suggest that we bring that to City Council for discussion and for information, I would have no 6 problem with that, but I don't think there's any legal requirements for a vote of any kind. But I think it's important to bring to your attention where we are and what we're doing, and I would certainly recommend we do that.

Mr. Voight

It's important for another reason. Because many of you are actively involved in the running of an election, you're a part of the educational process, that is, part of this ought to be educating you as to how this works so that you in turn can communicate to your constituents. I mean, that goes a long way towards everybody being on the same page. In the first instance, the commissioners themselves, the voting commissioners are going to have to agree that this is the direction that they want to go in. Everybody's going to be on the same page if we're going to get this done. Remember, it was a very, very short time frame, and the last thing we want to do is have everybody trying to 502 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 micro-manage the process. But ultimately we're going to need anybody's help in making sure it works. Remember that Montgomery County, a county very adjacent to us, decided to go in a different path and they bought all new machines. Now, we knew at the time that that's not the kind of machine that we would ever by for Philadelphia County. They were scroll machines, they fit in a suitcase. Well, fitting in a suitcase is nice except, you know, people in Philadelphia sometimes take souvenirs. (Laughter.)

Mr. Voight

They can't use the thing for anything else, but you know those metal machines that we had, the fabricated machines? How many do you think have walked? I mean, what use --

Councilman Kenney

I'm sure there's one or two.

Mr. Voight

We looked at that and we go, "Oh, my God," and then they scroll so you had to go all the way through the full ballot in order to vote. Well, people don't want to do that. They want to vote, they want to skip, they want to 503 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 be able to go here and there. Well, we don't want to have to relive that kind of thing because we're not going to go in that direction, but we will need your help in making sure that it gets done and it works.

Councilman Kenney

Madam President, I'm finished on the voting machines, but I'd like to get back on line on some other things.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Councilman Cohen, is this regarding the voting machines?

Mr. Roundtree

Madam Chair?

Council President Verna

Yes, sir.

Mr. Roundtree

May I say something?

Council President Verna

Yes, sir.

Mr. Roundtree

I'm James Roundtree and I'm director of the Minority Business Enterprize Council, and I just wanted to add that each one of the vendors that we have interviewed thus far has meaningful and substantial participation for both minority and women firms and it will depend on which firm that is ultimately selected, the final amount of participation that will occur in each instance. 504 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.

Councilman Cohen

Mr. Roundtree, if we went ahead with the selection of 1618 different people, who would pick them? Is there anything in your agreement, in the RFP? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: The responsibility -- this is Lou Applebaum, not Jim Roundtree speaking. The responsibility of providing the trained people will be of the vendor who is hired by the manufacturer to handle and control and be responsible for the training of those people. They will make the selections. It will be under their control.

Councilman Cohen

I would have some question about that very seriously. I think the point Councilwoman Tasco raised is a very valid point. With due respect, Mr. Voight, to you and to the folks in the warehouse, there's nothing like the dynamics of a voting precinct. People have to work together and the people who work there year after year are very jealous of their responsibilities. They almost automatically 505 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 resent anybody else coming in. They grudgingly permit a repair person to fix the machine because they have a real need for that. An therefore, it would seem to me that the selection process ought to go in the same way that the machine inspector process goes and that the City ought not to advocate its responsibility for picking people, but the City itself ought to pick the people. It's the best way also of enforcing the minority rules that we want enforced in all cases. And it seems to me that by your statement in the RFP, whoever proposed this understood it because you want the person there, they have to be a City resident there from 6:30 in the morning until the end the voting. It means that person can't vote at his or her vote at his or her own polling place unless they live right in that polling place because the voting machines won't open till 7:00. If they have to be there all the time, they're not going to be able to get away to vote. And I don't think we want to force people into voting absentee. So I think that whoever proposed this probably assumed that the choice would be among the people in the voting precinct, and that may 506 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 make since, but I think Councilwoman Tasco' proposal is the only one that makes sense in real life. If there is to be such a person, I'm not convinced that this need be, but I can see your underlying reason of wanting somebody specially trained to backup, it's like having a repair person there present. But the relationships of people there are very delicate, and you run the problem that the person who comes in will believe, no matter how often you say you're just there to backup, that person often comes to believe that he or she there as the real overseer. They'll learn this word, you know, in the Pennsylvania statute and they'll act as the overseer and you're going to have problems.

Council President Verna

Councilman, I think Mr. Voight would like address that for the last time.

Mr. Voight

Again, it's a work in progress. All of us are sensitive to how a polling place works and how you don't want to disrupt that process. You don't want to interject something that's going to make that polling place an unpleasant place for the people who have to 507 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 work there. They're the most important part of it. There's nothing fixed in stone. This was a suggestion that was put in here originally at the behest of the commissioners. How you worked it out, how you get the people, how you get the people to know how to get to someplace.

Councilman Cohen

But what we're trying to find out --

Mr. Voight

It's not final.

Councilman Cohen

Mr. Vogel (sic), we want some assurance that we're going to have something to say about that aspect because --

Mr. Voight

The three elected commissioners are the ones who have the legal authority to appoint an overseer under the election code. I would suggest to you that those three commissioners are responsive to you on a bipartisan bases. They're not going to do something -- I'm not speaking for them, but I can assure you that I know them. They're not going to do something stupid. They're not going to do something without consulting with you both in your capacity as Councilpeople and in your respective political capacities. Again, they want it to 508 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 work. Ultimately if it doesn't work, the people whose necks are on the line and who will be hung by the citizens of Philadelphia aren't you, aren't me, it's the three of them, okay.

Councilwoman Tasco

It's us.

Mr. Voight

Well, to a lesser degree. They go up the pole first. They're not going to do that without actually going through the process.

Councilman Cohen

Well, what they've done so far -- and we think they're all fine people and we respect them a lot. But what they've done so far is put in language that distresses us because they're looking at it from one position operating the whole thing citywide and we're looking at it from our own local experiences. We'd like to have assurance that before there is a final decision, that it comes back to this body in some fashion. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: As I indicated before, prior to making an award, we will sit down with City Council and we'll have a complete discussion and briefing of the whole matter and 509 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 everyone will have their appropriate input. And we, as Fred said, are not going to do anything foolish/ the voting commissioners are part of this. They have their full responsibility and we believe strongly that we're on the right track, and maybe your suggestions are absolutely right and we shouldn't use that mechanism then we might not, but we'll continue.

Councilman Cohen

At this point, we miss the elegance of Councilwoman Clark who would tell us about the story about "trust me." (Laughter.)

Councilman Cohen

And that's what we're being asked. We don't feel as if we would like to just trust. We feel we have a responsibility, being the 17 or people elected 18 to make general policy decisions, we'd like to have a little more than having to trust. We'd like to be involved in making the actual decision or at least having an opportunity to say "yes" or "no." That's the concern. I don't think we have to maybe debate it anymore, but I wanted to make it very clear -- COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Thank you. 510 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Cohen

-- how I think we feel.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any other questions regarding the voting machine issue? The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. Thank you for the assurance that Council will have a final look at as you proceed down the line. And in an attempt to honor the deadline you're under, to the extent that it's possible, if you could forward us information prior to this ultimate sit-down and re-look-at, that would be helpful. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We will do that.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay.

Councilman Nutter

Madam Chair?

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. Mr. Applebaum, just very briefly, we've had extensive 511 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 discussion about the training issue for the workers. My concern is for voters in this part of the discussion. And I know the RFP talked about what the vendor had to provide in terms of 1681 people at the 1681 polling places and all of that. Is there a laid-out game plan at the moment for how we're going to communicate to the voters of this City about these new machines? Are we going to do mailings? Are we going to have a video presentation on cable TV? Are we going to have models of the machine at libraries in anticipation of the election? Tell us a little bit about that. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Everything you just stated, the answer would be yes. Part of the proposal requires the vendor to supply us with VCR tapes, with training classes. We talked about having them in libraries and as a full public relations task to introduce to the citizens of the City of Philadelphia this new equipment.

Councilman Nutter

Wonderful. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: And also the company that -- one of the companies that were brought to us, and it so happened that some of the vendors brought the same companies to us who are 512 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 going to do that work.

Councilman Nutter

That's amazing. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: And they are all companies that are in our MBEC book, so we feel comfortable that whichever vendor we select of the two that we short-list, the participants will match, will work.

Councilman Nutter

Can you forward to us through the Chair information you have on the past three fiscal years and the two elections in each of those two years on the transport and pickup operation that we utilize to get the machines from the warehouse to wherever they're going, who's done the work, size of the contract, companies involved, and whether any of those firms are minority or female or other companies? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Yes, sir.

Councilman Nutter

It's my understanding that the new machines are going to be picked up, they have to be stored by the vendor at a particular location for eventual transportation to polling places, and I'd like to know about potential storage opportunities for the new machines as well as their eventual kind of 513 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 final resting place. We had some decision last year with the Public Property Commission. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I believe I presented you with a report on that, but we can do that. And again, the three contracts or the three years you're talking about are contracts issued by procurement for transportation of machines from the ware house to the polling places.

Councilman Nutter

Right. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We can get that for you and also the new plans for the temporary warehouse for the new machines. We'll present that to you again.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco. I only meant to give 30 seconds when I started and everybody went off on my time. I just want to make three points for the record so it will be clear. One, we do not consider offering a recommendation for that position as a perk. Two, I think you will have some standards for that person in terms of their 514 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 ability to understand computers and things of that nature, and certainly, we can find people in our community to do that. And finally, Mr. Voigt, most people don't know the commissioners. When the machines don't work and the polling places don't open, they get on us. I'm finished with the voting. I'd just like to ask two questions, one of Mr. Applebaum. On -1920 you and in your testimony talked about the contracting function where you contract for special services to capture overpayment for the state sales tax. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Yes.

Councilwoman Tasco

What special and unique service this vendor provide that a staff person on your staff could not provide at a lower cost? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: The contract that you're speaking of is a professional service contract with a vendor who has access to all of the bids that they're all public information. They then through their staff, it's all done externally by this company, they visit the construction companies who have been awarded 515 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 contracts and have completed contracts. They work with the vendors, they go through their accounting records, they go through their paid bills, and through that procedure determine the amounts of overpayments that they might have made to their suppliers for products that are ultimately going to the City of Philadelphia to be included in our construction. And the vendor, based on that information, files a claim with the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. If the Commonwealth honors that claim, we then receive a refund check. If not, the vendor takes it into court and the vendor handles the total program. We then receive checks from the Commonwealth for these refunds, and the vendor is then paid a percentage of that check as his fee. So there's absolutely no cost to the City of Philadelphia for any of this process.

Councilwoman Tasco

So the 250 comes from what you recapture. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Correct. The problem is, the fee that we pay them is chargeable to the Procurement Department, it's in our budget, so to speak, but when the funds come in from the Commonwealth, they are deposited in the General 516 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Fund and not allocated to procurement even though it does show in our budget documents the amount of money we collected.

Councilwoman Tasco

One question, Mr. Roundtree. We had some discussion in the last couple of weeks about the airport's master plan and some advertising RFPs that are on the street and I asked about the affirmative minority participation. To date, I am still waiting for the information about the affirmative action program there, and I'd like to know from you just what the status is. I can't seem to get an answer about what they're doing about minority participation.

Mr. Roundtree

Unfortunately, Councilwoman, so are we. We are waiting for the same information. I think the Department of Aviation will also be here, and that would be a very good question to ask the director because we haven't receive that information either.

Councilwoman Tasco

Are you a part of the discussions on the whole master plan and the other advertising RFPs that are going on? Are you at the table during those discussions? If you're 517 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 not, why not?

Mr. Roundtree

Again, that's is a very good question to ask the aviation director. Initially, what MBEC is involved in is when they first do their initial draft of an RFP. They send thier request to the MBEC and ask for us to help them develop ranges. Once we do that, we send it back and it's advertised. We're also asked when the proposals come in to review the proposals and make a recommendation, but I have not been a part of the selection process or the interview process.

Councilwoman Tasco

Have you in the past been part of the -- what was your involvement prior --

Mr. Roundtree

Prior to the new director, I had been involved in most of the major activities at the airport from the selection standpoint. With the major vendor, I participated with the Law Department in drafting the DBE program. I had some conversations on the transportation contract and about three other major pieces of business that the airport had under prior directors.

Councilwoman Tasco

But under this 518 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 director, you have not been at the table.

Mr. Roundtree

No, I have not.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you. I'll come back.

Council President Verna

Thank you. I think we're definitely going to have to go by the five-minute rule here. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you, Madam President. MIT is going to get a lot of requests from several ward leaders for computer experts to come in and handle Election Day elections for them. I can see that now, "hacker wanted, working elections in Philadelphia, Make your test for democracy," I guess, right? Mr. Roundtree, MBEC, we have a lot of building going on in the City of Philadelphia, and a lot of this building is going on by the fact that we have given TIFs, tax breaks, all the way down the line. Do we have figures in terms of one, how many -- what is the percentage of minority contractors involved? Are there any primary minority contractors? If there are 519 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 subcontractors, what are they doing and in what places? And in terms of the skilled jobs in the building trades, we passed a prevailing wage bill 5 after much discussion here last summer. A few commitments were made to this Council in terms of minority hiring and the minority percentages that were going to be going into those different jobs that are currently being performed across the City. You were supposed to be working with the building trades to set up a series of regulations and, I would imagine, objectives to be reached and dates that we would reach those objectives. What has happened? I know that's a lot of questions in one but, you know, see if you can make sense.

Mr. Roundtree

There are so many, Councilman. What I'm going to have to do is when we go back to the office review every last one of them and provide you a written response for that. But I can tell you that from the standpoint of meeting with the various trade unions, nothing has happened.

Councilman Ortiz

Nothing has 520 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 happened?

Mr. Roundtree

Nothing has happened. Let me quantify that. I have gotten from the electricians and the carpenters indicating that they would be willing to sit down and help draft a procedure of how they can be involved. And by being involved, giving me the information that we --

Councilman Ortiz

This is February 15th. We passed the legislation in September.

Mr. Roundtree

Yes. And as you know, during the time we passed the legislation, it was election time and basically no one wanted to do anything during the election period. I have had a tremendous amount of --

Councilman Ortiz

The government continues.

Mr. Roundtree

Yes, it does. Yes, it does. But nobody would like to make commitments until they find out what administration is going to be in office next, and I have been very frustrated in trying to establish anything without anyone wanting to make a commitment.

Councilman Ortiz

Well, when this 521 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Council passed that legislation, we were not -- that's not a part of the legislation that no one wants to make commitment. Commitments were made to this Council during the process of hearings of that legislation. We had a great deal of debate because a lot of us had a lot of reservations about it and we did not put and say, well, you know, we're going to see and ask questions about who's going to be in what place and so on.

Mr. Roundtree

Right.

Councilman Ortiz

It was a commitment to begin doing the things that are to be done. We have people working today in construction projects in the City of Philadelphia, many individual that come from Texas, Florida, that come from different states, and we're not hiring individuals from the City of Philadelphia. And that, to me, is unconscionable when we go through the process of passing emergency legislation because it had to be done at that time and then our citizens are not enjoying the benefits of this boom in building that we're having. I said one time that I was in this Council when the Convention Center got built and our community and our citizens did not 522 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 participate in that boom. And now we're going through another boom, and I want to see some results in terms of the citizens of Philadelphia participating in the jobs that are being done in Philadelphia. And I really cannot understand why is it so difficult if MBEC is there to get that data and the reasons why these things are not happening. An election is not an excuse.

Mr. Roundtree

May I respond before you go on, because I'm going to lose your train of thought.

Councilman Ortiz

Go ahead.

Mr. Roundtree

Until September you had not empowered MBEC to do anything other than monitor the business participation. As of September you gave us that responsibility. However, the bill that you passed did not give us any implementation power, so the next issue for us is to develop policies around implementation. That is the level of frustration that I was telling you about. You also need to know that the amount of construction that is going on, although there are a number projects that are on the bill, the actual activity has slowed somewhat. There's 523 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 going to be a boom, and you're absolutely right, there are people on what they call temporary cards from as far west as Texas and as far south as Florida. However, until -- and I talked to Councilman Clarke. Until we can get together and come up with an implementation policy, we don't have the responsibility right now to go in and order anybody to give us any information.

Councilman Ortiz

I asked at that time for a census, a census. I wanted to know how many individuals, first of all, from Philadelphia were in the skilled trades from Philadelphia. Two, I wanted to know in terms of ethnic background. We never got that.

Mr. Roundtree

Who did you request this from, Councilman.

Councilman Ortiz

We requested that from the people and they were supposed to get it to you.

Mr. Roundtree

It hasn't happened.

Councilman Ortiz

They were supposed to get it to you. We have right now the Penn's Landing project, Disney Quest, two stadiums, one practice facility, a couple of hotels that are 524 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 going to go up, a whole series of buildings going on, all of them, all of them are being financed in one way or the other through taxpayers, Philadelphia taxpayers' money. And all that I want to know is, what are they and we as a city receiving as a benefit in terms of jobs and contracts and I want a description of those contracts and those jobs and the people who are manning them, that is all. That's the main function of MBEC.

Mr. Roundtree

No, sir. May I remind you that our main function is to provide assistance on City projects. But when you go into a TIF, it is a different set of circumstances. If it's funded through PAID or if it's funded through the Municipal Authority or some other entity, once it's funded through that entity, it becomes their responsibility to provide information or to monitor that process. The most difficult aspect of what we do is that a number of the quasi City agencies had not at that point had affirmative action policies, nor did they name MBEC as monitoring authority or agency. When you, again, talk about how it's funded when it has matching 525 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 dollars, there are other entities that are involved in the actual monitoring process. I'll give you a painstaking example. The Kvaerner, the Navy Yard, although the MBEC was involved in the initial review of their plan, the actual monitoring procedure went to OHCD at the time and they hired the urban coalition. One of the things that the MBEC did to stay involved was to try and help the activity to assure this Council that they would have some participation, but we are not the authority that can evoke any activity. If they don't do what you ask, we don't have the authority to say, "You won't get paid, you can't do any" --

Councilman Ortiz

I understand. There are very little teeth that is in the MBEC, but at least the ability to get the data necessary. And Kvaerner, Kvaerner's a great example of the failures of like the Gussie Clark saying that she said, we trusted in the Kvaerner deal and we got shafted. But I think that we have one legislation that we passed, some commitments were made, nothing has been done. We have projects that are going on and we want should data. 526 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Roundtree

I can get you some data on the project.

Council President Verna

Would you forward that to the Chair, please, and I will make certain that each Councilmember receives that?

Mr. Roundtree

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Councilmen Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

I actually wanted to respond somewhat to Councilman Ortiz. There actually had been something done, although informally, when Miss Hamilton who was then the director of MBEC for City Council was here. She drafted a letter in conjunction with Mr. Roundtree and forwarded that letter to Mr. Dougherty who was the business agent for the electricians union. He subsequently forwarded a copy to that letter to the head of building and trades, Mr. Gillespie. My understanding is that he said he would be willing to respond to the information and the questions that were put in that letter and it asked about the things that you now speak of, the locations of the individuals, zip codes, the all nine yards. The problem was, as a follow-up, Miss 527 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Hamilton left to do other things, and I kind of think that's where the breakdown occurred on our end. But I don't know about MBEC as it relates to Mr. Roundtree. But I can say that's where it kind where it broke down with us. So I think that we can potentially get some dialogue going along with Mr. Gillespie and the building trade union as it relates to the response of those questions.

Councilman Ortiz

I know about the letter that Miss Hamilton sent, but it was through MBEC. And I believe that at this point in time because of the commitments that were made, because of everything that is going on in the City of Philadelphia, we have to make sure that the citizens of Philadelphia are participating in all of the things that are going on. It makes no 18 sense, it makes no sense to have this huge economic boom in this city in terms of construction, in terms of development, and have no 21 participation either by contractors or by people in terms of their jobs. It makes no sense to have people from Southwestern Texas coming in to do jobs here in Philadelphia that can be done by Philadelphia residents. I think it's 528 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 unconscionable. Madam Chair, I have no further questions.

Council President Verna

We have quite a list here. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Good morning.

Council President Verna

Again, I'm going to start timing. We will have five minutes for the first go-around. I think everybody's been given a great deal of latitude. We have a number of Councilpeople that want to ask questions and we've had a number of witnesses in the audience since 9 o'clock this morning. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you very much, Madam President. Commissioner Applebaum, do we have a system or any procedure to tack our contractors who either fail to perform up to their -- up to what they have contracted to do or that have violated state or city laws or federal laws and attempt to go through department by department to identify those contractors and to eliminate them 529 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 from future City building? For example, if an individual's contracted with the Water Department or the Department of License and Inspection to do certain demolition work and that stuff winds up being dumped on the street somewhere in West Philadelphia and the Police Department catch them and the DA's Office is now proceeding with whatever they do, are we aware of that and do we prohibit or preclude those contractors in the future from bidding work? What happens with that? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We are aware of those instances because the operating departments must bring them to our attention, and it is our responsibility to start the process to default the vendors and also go against their performance bond if they so exist. On future bids, before every award is made, a determination is made whether that bidder who happens to be the lowest bidder is also responsive and responsible. Vendors who are non-responsible who have done poor workmanship or who have short-dump, the ones that you're talking about, I'm quite aware of that. We then make the decision to not make awards, call 530 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 them a non-responsible vendor and we will not award to them.

Councilman Kenney

Have there been situations in the past that you're aware of not retrospectively that people had slipped through our net, so to speak, and have acquired additional City work while either in dispute with another department or under investigation or under arrest for various violations of state and city law? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I don't believe so. In the public works arena, every vendor who requests to bid on a Public Works contract must submit a prequalification questionnaire. The prequalifications questionnaire has those types of questions inserted asked in the questionnaire. It then goes to the operating department. They make a determination whether that bidder should be allowed to bid or not. So I would say through that process, we catch 90, 95 percent of it. I cannot say that there's absolutely no one who falls through the cracks; they might.

Councilman Kenney

Does the same holds true for payment of taxes, payment of other types 531 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 of requirements that have not been paid? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: The Revenue Department -- it's either the Revenue Department or the Finance Department, I'm not sure who controls that, has programs that where a check is going to be issued to a vendor on a city contract is matched against the delinquency list. And if delinquency, they will not issue that check.

Councilman Kenney

Do we go down as far as dealing with individual principals of companies. I know there's often a shell game going on where XYZ Company becomes ABC Company after their XYZ Company got in trouble, and we have the same basic principles just basically operating under a different corporate veil. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Well, we've had that and we've caught them. And we had one recently, I'm not going to mention names, that the company was defaulted, all the contracts canceled. In fact, the DA is -- we brought that to the attention DA's attention, and they're investigating them. And then the same principles came up in another company. We were aware of that and stopped them. So we try our very, very best 532 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 to --

Councilman Kenney

Let me ask you a related question on the abandoned car removal program and the salvers. We are now going to go out and solicit, and we have already, a large number of salvers from the region. Do we have similar requirements to do background checks on the principals of the company and on their employees? I don't want to bad mouth directly the towing and salving business because there are a lot of reputable people in it, but there seems to be that gray area where what I'm afraid of is that one of the salvers that we may hire from the suburbs is going to come in and pick up a junk, hawked it, six months before hand one of his employees dumped on the street himself. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We have stringent, stringent background checks. They must, first of all, be certified by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania with a salvers license. Their equipment must be looked at by L&I and they certify tow trucks. The Police Department visits their location to make sure that they have adequate storage facility for the 533 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 abandoned cars, and they also -- the Police Department does background checks on the principals and on their employees as part of the program.

Councilman Kenney

Also making sure that their employees are licensed drivers in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I would assume when Police Department makes the background check, that's part of it, that's probably they start with the driver's license and through that get other information.

Councilman Kenney

Could you provide me what criteria we're imposing upon these people who want to bid on this work as far as what they're required to provide? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Absolutely. We have that. We just issued that statement to all of the salvers who came to our meeting all of the requirements. We have that. I'll be glad to issue that to the Chair.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair. 534 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Councilman Cohen.

Councilman Cohen

Thank you, Madam President. Who makes the decision as to the priority of picking up the cars? Does the salver do it? Does the police captain do it? Who does it? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: That, I believe, is handled by the abandoned officer that at the current time is located in each police district. There's an officer within each district who has the responsibility and control of the abandon car program.

Councilman Cohen

And that officer would have the power to direct the order? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I believe so.

Councilman Cohen

Because the answers we get in the 35th District is that it's up the salvers, they make the decisions, they pick which cars, among the cars that are sent to them, they are the ones that pick them. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: No, the cars 535 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 are picked out by the Police Department, by an officer, and then it goes to the abandoned officer person in that district how has a responsibility for it. Salvers are not permitted to come in and just take cars away.

Councilman Cohen

So it's the police abandoned officer who can determine the priority? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Correct.

Councilman Cohen

Because there have been instances where cars have been in the middle of the block for a week and the salver says, well, he's busy with other cars. We're told that, but you say that should not happen, the police captain would have would have the power to direct the salver to go to a particular car and get that next? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Absolutely.

Councilman Cohen

Very good. Now, back to the voting machine on a different aspect. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Sure.

Councilman Cohen

I may have not heard this accurately. I thought at one point it was said in the procedure that something was going to be taken at the end of the voting, something was 536 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 going to be carried somewhere else and that two hours after the election we think we could have a result. Isn't this an electronic system? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Of course.

Councilman Cohen

Well, I thought that one of the values of doing this was that maybe two minutes after the election, at 9:02, there would be reports. Say if the voting stopped at 8:00, then at 8:02 there would be reports because all the results would electronically be transmitted from every polling place in the City to one central location. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: It is not possible to have every polling place in the City of Philadelphia set up with the correct equipment that will be able to take the electronic data and read it from each polling place. Realize, the polling places, some of them don't even have telephone lines. So in order to properly control it, we are establishing, I believe the number is 10 regional centers. So where the electronic media that is removed from the voting machine will be delivered to that location, will be inserted into a reader, that reader will then transmit the 537 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 information from that electronic media directly to a mainframe that will be under control in Election Central. I said two hours; I would hope that it will be a lot less than that, but it will depend upon the traffic moving the electronic media from polling places to ten central locations. And also, you must realize we have to have a backup to that electronic media. So at each polling location, there would be a process that they will go through to close the polling location. And part of that process is closing the machine and having the machine print out a paper tape that will have all of the totals inscribed. That paper tape and the electronic media will be delivered to the regional's tabulating Centers. Also, the information is also contained within the machine. So there's three sources of information: It's in the machine, it's on a paper tape, and it's in a piece of electronic media, a diskette or whatever. And then it will transmitted, as I mentioned, to the regional centers that will who then read the media, transmit it to Election Central. Most likely it will take less than two hours. But if there's a snowstorm that day and you have trouble, 538 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 difficulty in moving the media to the regional centers, that will slow it down.

Councilman Cohen

Well I find that, I have to tell you, terribly disappointing because often in the mayoral race we know very quickly. We often know within a half an hour the radio is broad casting from the preliminary result because the police pick it up at the polling station and get it -- I think they bring it right downtown or they get it to some central location very quickly, you know, on the quick tally that the police take right after the end of the voting. I -- COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: There still will be --

Councilman Cohen

What we were talking act with the evidence, I was clearly under the impression we'd know within minutes and nobody would have any questions and there wouldn't be time for anybody -- COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I think it's impractical to think that within a couple of minutes you're going to have the results from 3500 voting machines within two minutes fully tabulated and completed, even if you put -- if you put 539 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 cellular telephones in every machine had them phone them in, the results into some central computer, it would still take time. You have 3500 machines that you have to report on. Now, there will be flash returns that will occur fast, but my comment at the two hours, it will be absolutely 100 percent correct, the numbers will be verified, entered into the computer and completed.

Councilman Cohen

Well, could we get more information on that part? Because I find that very troubling because it seems to me electronically the moment the voting is ended, I understood the machines already had the votes tabulated. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Of course --

Councilman Cohen

That it took no time to tabulate the votes in the machine. By the moment the machine was closed, there would be a tabulation. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: There is. The moment the machine is closed --

Councilman Cohen

And then electronically to have 3500 polling, you know, voting machines to go into a computer is nothing 540 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 today. They have billions in a second. There are billions of operations that take place. So I would like to yield to Councilman Rizzo who apparently wants to discuss this issue, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Councilman. You want to yield to Councilman Rizzo and then unfortunately your time is up.

Councilman Rizzo

I was aware that the new voting machines are not on line. And what you described and what Councilman Cohen described in today's world of technology, downloading 3500 locations to a central location is a piece of cake in the computer world. If we're spending $21 million on voting machines, I would hope that we wouldn't still be utilizing part of the old process and not using the entire world of technology if we have to equip these polling places with a portable device that makes that vote on line, and the minute the polls close it downloads to a central location. It seems as though that's something that we should explore. I'd be interested to know throughout the country that's using this technology, are any cities, 541 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 communities, using the technology that we're describing that we wish we could be because to use a system where you have to still run cartridges to a satellite location then download it to a central location seems to me that we're spending $21 million and not utilizing it to the degree that it could be utilized.

Mr. Voight

Let me just, if I might, answer your question, both of your questions. One, there's a big myth, the myth of computer world, the myth of the Internet, and in fact there are experiments in voting on the Internet. For those of us read the papers last week, we might have seen a little problem with hackers bringing down systems. Well, what you want to avoid in terms of technology is you want -- you want speed you want accuracy, you want security. And one of things that you have to be able to do is have a paper trail, have an actual trail so that you can go back, no matter what disaster befalls you, and totally reconstruct the election. There was a panel that was put together in California by IBM, the secretaries of states of five different jurisdiction to review the Internet 542 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 and to look forward in terms of how one could use the most modern technology developed. And what they in unanimously came back and said was, "No, we're not ready for that yet." What we're looking at is state-of-the-art technology. We are looking at stuff which is right at the cutting edge, but which is used and has been used successfully in other jurisdictions. What we don't want to do is to be guinea pigs. We may want to be risk averse. We may want to be conservative because we want to be right. Now, one of the things that people talk about is, gee, why couldn't you use cell phones. In fact, the commissioner was one of the proponents of that. Well, it happens to be our polling places in Philadelphia and in Pennsylvania by law are in our neighborhoods. We have lots of places that don't have telephones, some of them don't have running water, some of them don't have bath facilities, some of them are fairly primitive, but they're in our neighborhoods. Now, many of those places may or may not be conducive to the cell phone. Again, we have this myth of technology that somehow a cell phone can be used 543 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 every place in the City. I can tell you there are places, where we have polling places in public buildings where you can't use a cell phone. Now, again, we went to the FEC which has catalog state-of-the-art equipment which has been certified. The key is certification. We went to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, state-of-the-art technology which has been certified and which has been used in a jurisdiction of comparable size, that's the kind of criteria that you have to use, not myth, not belief, reality. And that's what everybody is involved with bid.

Councilman Rizzo

I understand the potential problems association with the Internet, but we're not talking about the Internet here, we're talking about a closed system that is a secure system that we're talking about the transmission of data either through a telephone line or digital signal through a cellular telephone. I don't want to continue this, but all I'm suggesting is that if we're going to spend all of this money on technology, assure me that we can some day get there, that maybe in the first election we'll have to do with what Commissioner 544 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Applebaum described, but we have equipment that can be upgraded to meet the needs of --

Mr. Voight

Councilman, I can't make that commitment so long as we choose or are compelled to change polling places with frequency where we use polling places that are in people's homes, where we use polling places that are in commercial establishments which change and change almost every election. So long as you are not in a position to guarantee that you're going to use the same site and are able to hardwire that site, and I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Well, there's another comment I would just like to add and that's the security factor. The transmission of the data from the cartridges to election central must be done on a secured site. You cannot use open telephone lines. So you would then -- in order to have each location do it on their own, we would have to have 1600 or how many locations hardwired with a telephone system to each one of those locations for each election. That could be very costly because we have to be -- in addition 545 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 to everything else, we must be very conscious of the security factor and no one can break in and change the numbers.

Councilman Rizzo

Again, I don't want to continue this, but I'm hoping that the equipment that we spend all of this money isn't something antiquated when get it, that if there is something out there that can have add-ons or enhancements -- COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Let me just add one thing. One of the members of the committee is a representative from the Mayor's Office of Information Services, and this particular gentleman is very experienced in computers and computerization, and he is -- we're using his ability on the technology issues and he, I feel confident, knows the technology that we're talking about.

Councilman Rizzo

Good. Thank you Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very much. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown. 546 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Certainly.

Councilwoman Brown

To your testimony, , second paragraph, and I quote, "An increase of 500,000 in Class 200 provides for the increased cost of mandated advertising." Can you speak first to what that is? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: The Procurement Department is responsible for placement and paying of all advertisements that appear in the local newspapers. These are legally mandated ads for procurement for election, et cetera, and et cetera. Every year we have gone back at the end of budget year, and through the transfer process, have had requested monies transferred to us because we've always been short.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Hopefully, this additional allotment of $500,000 will prevent us from running out at the end of the year and resorting to a transfer. But the advertizing, the election advertising, the bid advertising, all of these advertising costs are on the Procurement 547 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Department's budget.

Councilwoman Brown

To follow up in the spirit of Councilman Ortiz's comments, what percentage or is it a practice to include minority-owned print media and/or electronic media? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Yes, we advertise regularly in the two, the Philadelphia Daily News, the Philadelphia Inquirer, and then we advertise regularly in the Philadelphia Tribune, and the Al Dia newspaper and the other minority newspapers.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you very much. Mr. Roundtree, you speak to, your testimony, second paragraph, second sentence, "This represents a decline from FY '98's 14.8 percent of the total $316 million awarded," with regards to contract participation. Why the decline?

Mr. Roundtree

Jim Roundtree, MBEC. There are a number of reasons, contract variations. On the next page you'll see a graph that depicts public works versus service supply 548 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 and equipment, and the most glowing thing in that area is the actual service supply and equipment because we did pretty well with public works. But because of the nature of how the City's been purchasing a number of equipment purchases and supply items, we've had a lack of participation in those areas. And that's the response.

Councilwoman Brown

You say lack of -- so is that due to -- what is that due to?

Mr. Roundtree

In certain items, we've gone directly to the manufacturer versus distributors so, therefore, at this point, we don't have any minority or women manufacturers that the City purchases from. Not to say that there are no minority and women manufacturers in the country, but the City of Philadelphia has not been purchasing from any.

Councilwoman Brown

Did you want to add something, Mr. Applebaum? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: No. That is correct.

Councilwoman Brown

Another thing, of your testimony, Mr. Roundtree.

Mr. Roundtree

Yes. 549 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Brown

Firms certified.

Councilwoman Brown

In this instance there's been a dramatic increase, so what factors have sparked that progress?

Mr. Roundtree

We have gone to an automated application tracking process where we can input the information and then it can take a little bit more time and do the desk audits, so we feel that the automation has helped us increase our level of efficiency in that area.

Councilwoman Brown

Referring, again, to Councilman Ortiz's passionate comments, aren't those type of technical services, can't they also be utilized with regards to the kind of issues Angel Ortiz spoke of?

Mr. Roundtree

Yes. We just purchased a tracking system for employment and business activities. But up until September, the MBEC was only responsible for tracking business participation with the exception of Executive Order 95, which is a labor agreement, labor management agreement. We have two projects that we've had participation of those that we actually 550 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 had -- we actually monitor the employee side. But heretofore, the MBEC has only been responsible for monitoring the business of the city.

Councilwoman Brown

So we have some work to do on our end.

Councilwoman Brown

Last , first paragraph, the guide that speaks to how to do business with the City, I'm always concerned about outreach and making sure word gets out in the hinterland, if you will, so what entities do you first look to? In addition to PCDC, what other avenues do you look to ensure that information gets to persons who want to do business with the City?

Mr. Roundtree

These seminars are based on people who have submitted applications to the City to either be certified as minority women or disabled businesses or businesses who are interested in utilizing those firms for City contracts. PCDC and PIDC and the Procurement Department participate with the MBEC in assuring firms that they understand what requirement are needed to participate on City contracts. Those 551 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 are what those workshops are about.

Councilwoman Brown

I would ask that you also look to and consider those who have the aspiration but don't have a clue of how to start. And so vehicles like the Northeast chamber and the West Philadelphia chamber and the various local chambers there's also opportunity there for individuals who want the opportunity, but have no 10 clue of where to start with regards to the City bureaucracy.

Mr. Roundtree

Yes. So that you know, Councilwoman, we have gone on many occasions to various sections of the City to put on, if you will, a show as to how you get certified, how you get into the procurement system, and then invited them to this more formal activity. We have worked with the North Philadelphia chamber, we have worked with the West Philadelphia chamber, and it's another group out in West Philadelphia, the West Philadelphia Incubator -- they escape me.

Councilwoman Brown

Incubator?

Mr. Roundtree

Yes. We've worked with them where we've gone to their establishment, talked with people who are interested in starting 552 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 their business and then telling them the nuances of the City procurement process and inviting them to a larger workshop where they can meet other individuals who are either interested in starting their businesses or expanding their business to include City contract opportunities.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you. My final comment is being 45 days old, but also recognizing oftentimes there's a criticism that City departments do not talk to each other. Let me commend you for what I've read on paper with regards to your two departments, but I'll always be looking for tangible examples where what's on paper is reflected in reality.

Mr. Roundtree

Okay.

Councilwoman Brown

Very well. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very much. Councilman Goode.

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll try to be brief. Mr. Roundtree, in following up to Councilman Ortiz's questioning and the follow-up 553 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 to my questioning related to economic stimulus program outlined in the five-year financial plan, for the record, Minority Business Enterprise Council has no oversight or monitoring authority over PIDC or PAID or Redevelopment Authority; is that true?

Mr. Roundtree

That's true.

Councilman Goode

And the affirmative action policies of those agencies are inconsistent with the City's affirmative action policy; is that true?

Mr. Roundtree

Well, I wouldn't say that. I would defer to them to respond to you on that, but from what I know, they have agreed in many cases to use Executive Order 193 specifically where calls for certification of businesses to be counted toward participation. Now, beyond that is where you need to ask them specifically.

Councilman Goode

By inconsistent, I don't mean to what extent are they inconsistent. I mean, it's not the exact same policy. They do not always follow the executive order.

Mr. Roundtree

Exactly. They have the option. 554 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Goode

Furthermore, your agency does not have any monitoring or oversight authority over loan contracts at all?

Mr. Roundtree

No, we don't.

Councilman Goode

For the record, would you please make formal recommendations to this body as to how we could give you that monitoring and oversight authority particularly on development projects as it relates to quasi public loan contracts?

Mr. Roundtree

Yes, sir.

Councilman Goode

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Councilman. We brought up that issue before because monitoring is very important to make sure the job gets done. Thank you for bringing up that issue. Councilwoman Tasco. Did she leave the room?

Councilman Nutter

She said I could take her place whenever she was on the phone. (Laughter.)

Councilwoman Blackwell

That's pretty 555 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 good. What can we say? Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Roundtree.

Councilman Nutter

To follow up on Councilman Goode's question, he ask you, I thought, did MBEC have any jurisdiction with regard to I think the wide list of alphabet soup agencies, was that PIDC, RDA.

Councilman Nutter

Who else is left?

Councilman Nutter

PHA, all those. And your response was no. 17

Mr. Roundtree

No. 18

Councilman Nutter

What is your response based on?

Mr. Roundtree

My response is based on those are quasi City agencies and not direct City agencies, not the City operating department, so to speak.

Councilman Nutter

Have you received legal advice about that issue? 556 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Roundtree

I can provide legal advise for you -- I mean, a legal brief for you, but I'm pretty sure about that.

Councilman Nutter

That wasn't my question.

Mr. Roundtree

Have I received? No, I have not.

Councilman Nutter

Have you received advice from the Law Department that you are not able to either get information that was responsive to the Councilman's question or that you definitively have no jurisdiction whatsoever with regard to those particular authorities or agencies?

Mr. Roundtree

No, I have not gotten legal counsel.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Then I would ask you directly or -- Mr. Dubow, are you technically in charge today? Are you responsible for this vast array of incredible governmental talent and they're all under your jurisdiction today?

Councilman Nutter

Good answer. 557 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Somewhere between the two of you --

Mr. Roundtree

I'll take that responsibility and get it to you.

Councilman Nutter

A formal request to have Law Department advice on that particular issue?

Mr. Roundtree

Yes, sir.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. Thank you Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you. Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Certainly.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner Applebaum, I have a two-part question so I'll ask the whole question and then you can respond. I'd like to get a status on the 800 trunking radio system, where we are with that since that's such a substantial purchase by the City of Philadelphia. Also, and I've had conversations with the Administration, this probably will be one of the finest communication systems in the country once it's installed. It's been installed with a 558 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 lot of thought, a lot of just excellent engineering, and it's also being installed with a lot of extra capacity, Capacity that's thought that could be sold to other agencies like Delaware River Port Authority, the School District, SEPTA, etc. How could people or could you explain how that concept could work and the Procurement Department could solicit users of that system and create revenue for the City of Philadelphia? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Okay. Councilman, the 800-megahertz system is, from what I understand and the weekly reports that I get, is moving quite well. I would suggest that when Public Property is here, you direct that same question to them and they'll give you the real specifics.

Councilman Rizzo

I'm talking about the purchase of it. Is it all bought? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Oh, the award was made after six, nine months ago. The award was made and it's in process now. Their towers are being constructed. City Hall is being set up. It's under construction, yes. 559 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Rizzo

The amount during the last budget process was kind of a subject that we weren't discussing. Could you tell us how much this system is going to cost us, how much this bid was awarded for? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I believe it was $52 million.

Councilman Rizzo

Fifty-two million? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Fifty-two million over a three-year period with a complete installation of the 800 megahertz system. I believe that's the correct amount.

Councilman Rizzo

And that's over three budgets. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: It's a three-year process to get it from beginning to end, Phase 1, Phase 2, and I think it's 36 months from beginning to end. And there will be budget allocations in each year to meet the requirements that are necessary to fund the purchase orders.

Councilman Rizzo

That a 52 million, there's obviously other expenses in there from City employees and other support to make that system work that's not included in that 52 560 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 million. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: The $52 million number is the contract with Motorola, that's the contract.

Councilman Rizzo

That's the number with Motorola? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: That's the purchase price of the system.

Councilman Rizzo

My second part of the question. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: The second part of the question is the potential selling of sites of the extra capacity that we had spoken about. That is something that hasn't been brought to the forefront now, but certainly is something that we discussed early on and that the Procurement Department will be involved through the issuance of what we call concession agreements to try and sell that extra capacity. But of course, before you can sell something you have to have it and it will take us two years to complete the system. But that is something that we definitely will be looking into.

Councilman Rizzo

The reason being 561 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 that we really need to move now because many of these agencies are in they're engineering stages for the purchase of similar systems at a smaller capacity. Like, just an example, I'm not suggesting that this is happening, but the Delaware River Port Authority might want to spend $15 million to build the design and install their own 800 trunking radio system, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense if we have one that has 30 percent capacity available to it. They need to know early on that this is available to them before they start spending millions of dollars in engineering and so on. So I would hope that whoever's I believe the Managing Director is interested in this concept, but I'm just wondering, it would be a Procurement Department function to put all of that together? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Most likely it will. The Procurement Department is responsible for what they call concession-type agreements where we receive money from outside people, and we will be involved in that and your point is well taken to try and see what we can do sooner than later on these events. But realize our system is 562 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 built to supply radio coverage within the City of Philadelphia, and I'm not sure of the ranges of the Delaware River Port Authority, but we certainly -- that's one thing that we should look at, absolutely.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

You're welcome.

Councilwoman Miller

This question is for the Procurement Department. My office received a complaint from a pest control company who was unable to bid for City contracts because his business doesn't have an 500,000 annual gross. His best year was 200,000 annual gross. What is this rationale for this have a million dollar threshold as a requirement to do business with the 563 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 City, and is it unfair to small businesses? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: There is no 4 threshold that I know of in dollars and cents on specific contracts. I'm not familiar with the contract that you're speaking of. Generally speaking, our contracts require that the vendors who are awarded a particular contract have experience, background with similar-size accounts and can bring to the City of Philadelphia the expertise that is needed for the particular contract that they're bidding on. So it's not a dollar figure that we establish at all. It's just a judgment that is made that the vendor must satisfy the requirements that he has experienced similar contracts to our size so that we're assured that we will get appropriate service when we need it. If you could give me that name of the company after this or you could call my office, I certainly would look into it and get back to you directly on that particular contractor.

Councilwoman Miller

I'd appreciate that. I know that this vendor was one that we referred for work with the state government when I work for Representative Richardson, so he does 564 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 have the experience. But I will get you the name. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: I would appreciate that. I will look into it and respond to you.

Councilwoman Miller

A couple other questions. This is regard to MBEC. In your testimony, you mentioned the creation of a disadvantaged business enterprise plan developed by MBEC. The question: Please describe the disadvantaged business enterprise plan that was developed and what percentage of the airport's retail merchandising units does this 605 number represent of the total availability?

Mr. Roundtree

That 600 number is a misprint, it's a typographical error. It's supposed to read 60 percent which -- that's the percentage of actual what we call merchandising retail units, which is the carts that are out at the airport. Initially, what that program is supposed to do is to take people who are interested in the retail business but does not have the financial wherewithal for an in-line store, but to take a concept and see how successful it can be; also to provide them with 565 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 the support to make the actual entrepreneurs more successful to the point that once an in-line space becomes available that they would have access to that.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. I wanted to ask you a follow-up to that. It just slipped my mind, but I'll just move on. The graph that you provided in your testimony reflects that the amount of women who have been awarded public work contracts has steadily declined. What measures have been set in place to address that, if any?

Mr. Roundtree

The only thing we can do is aggressively increase the goals for women business participation in certain areas. And the only thing that I could use as an example of that if there are contracts where we have more women businesses than we have minority, then we will increase that portion. I have to tell you that from a public perspective, it's decreasing; but from a private perspective, it's increasing because most of the advisor committees that I participate on, there is almost more women business participation than 566 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 there is minority. I mean, they're gaining, so it will surely reflect in the level of participation that we're able to get moving forward.

Councilwoman Miller

In the survey that you speak of in your testimony is going to be completed sometime in the year 2000. Do you have a projection on a month?

Mr. Roundtree

Right now we've finally got in the process of paying. What I would like to do is render you that in writing because I need to talk with the Law Department and look at their schedule because there are some things that we are trying to do through the Law Department that will have a direct bearing that, on the conclusion of that.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. But maybe we can have it by the summer?

Mr. Roundtree

Oh, yes. I mean, for the first time in two years, we're actually in the process of paying them because they've given us the bulk of the documents that they asked for, so we're really in the final stages of the review, and it's in the Law Department at this point.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. Just a 567 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 couple other questions, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Go right ahead.

Councilwoman Miller

Why will a firm be denied minority certification? In your testimony on at the bottom --

Mr. Roundtree

Do you want all of the reason? They're ineligible for one reason or another. They're at least five to ten reasons why we would deem a firm not acceptable. One could be for economic size, one could be for business size, one could be for ownership or control. It could be the economic status of the individual principals of the firm. I mean, there are a number of issues where they could denied certification.

Councilwoman Miller

Economic status, meaning what, high debt?

Mr. Roundtree

No, the size of the company or the -- right now, in order to be considered disadvantaged, you cannot have a person net worth greater than $750,000. So if your personal net worth, excluding your equity in the business, excluding your primary residence, is 568 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 more than $750,000, than you are not economically disadvantaged by the criteria that we use.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. And for those firms that are not financial advantaged, what would be a reason to deny?

Mr. Roundtree

Ownership or control. The very primary one would be ownership and control. They have not demonstrated that the company is an independent firm that is owned or controlled by a person in a something class.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. And why would a firm be denied recertification? Would that be the same types of reasons?

Mr. Roundtree

Generally, it's because of size, they outgrew the program. Or there's this myth out in the street that if you're a minority firm and you sell your business then the minority status goes along with it, but that's not the issue, that's not the case.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. And what relationship does MBEC have in regard to the entire bid process, example, bid specifications, preparation, review, and decisions as to who gets the bid? 569 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Roundtree

That's an MBEC question. We have two bites at the proverbial apple, so to speak. Once RFP is drafted, it's sent to the MBEC to develop ranges. We review the range, we then submit it back to Procurement Department for their consideration. Once that's done, in many cases we participate in the pre-bid conferences. And then when the bids are actually submitted, we review it for compliance to determine whether or not the bids are responsive and responsible, then we make that recommendation to the Procurement Department for consideration. Now, there are a number of other processes where there's actually a selection as part of the bid process, and the MBEC participates with the Procurement Department in those activities. As an example, the voting machines, I am on the review committee for the voting machines. And so I review the participation from the vendors or the MBEC is responsible for making a recommendation to the Procurement Department and the City Administration as to what firms are responsive and responsible.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. One other 570 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 question. Can you give us a update on MBEC participation at Kvaerner? If not today, some future time.

Mr. Roundtree

Yes, I can, yes.

Councilwoman Miller

I'd really like to see that.

Councilwoman Miller

And I'm sure other Councilpeople do, too.

Mr. Roundtree

I may have to defer to the Finance Director and the Chief of Staff because one of the things that the City Administration may want to do is request that information directly from Kvaerner and then have Kvaerner submit it to us. Council has met with them on several times and I'm not sure as to what legal responsibility they have to give the information to MBEC.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay.

Mr. Roundtree

But I surely will pursue it.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very 571 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 much. Did you receive a letter, Mr. Roundtree, by chance from Congressman Fattah asking for some information on participation?

Mr. Roundtree

On the Kvaerner project?

Councilwoman Blackwell

No, in general. He asked for some participation level.

Mr. Roundtree

No, I haven't received that yet.

Councilwoman Blackwell

All right. Perhaps it wasn't you. I'll verify. I see Councilwoman Tasco is not here, nor is Councilman DiCicco and Clarke for the moment. If they are here, we are ready for you to submit your questions to the Procurement Department and to MBEC. Are there any other questions? Councilman Mariano.

Councilman Mariano

Thank you, Madam Chair. Sorry I'm late. If somebody asked this question, please accept my apology. Handicap accessibilities, Mr. Applebaum, for people in wheelchairs, some of the 572 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 divisions that I have, I can think of one division at 56th ward where there's like three people in wheelchairs. Has that all been factored into it as far as the machines not being up too high? COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: You're talking about the voting machines?

Councilman Mariano

Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: The voting machines will all be handicap accessible, positively. That's one of the requirements in the RFP and that will be absolutely positively handled.

Councilman Mariano

Thank you. Thank you very much. That's the only one I have.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very much. Are there any other? Councilwoman Miller? Sorry, we can't hear you, Councilwoman. Can we have her Mike?

Councilwoman Miller

Is there any information that you can give us on the level of participation at the hotels, I don't have a list handy right now that I can compare with, of those 573 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 hotels that are currently being developed and have already been developed under the TIFs?

Mr. Roundtree

I believe that's being monitored by the Office of Housing and Community Development.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. So we'll ask them that.

Councilwoman Miller

All right, thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you very much. Are there any other questions? (No further questions.)

Councilwoman Blackwell

All right, gentlemen, it looks like you haven't been here very long. It looks like it's time for us to move on. COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: We've been here since yesterday. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER APPLEBAUM: Thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

The Revenue Department is next. (Revenue Department witnesses come 574 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 forward.)

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you for your patience. Good afternoon. I know that you, too, were here yesterday. Maybe we can get yesterday's schedule done pretty soon. One moment please, let me check with the stenographer. (Brief recess.)

Council President Verna

I'd like to now recognize Revenue Commissioner. Commissioner, please identify yourself for the record and proceed with testimony. COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: Thank you. Good afternoon, President Verna and members of City Council. My name is Nancy Kammerdeiner and I'm the Revenue Commissioner for the City of Philadelphia. With me this afternoon is Denise Garrett, Chief of Water Revenue Bureau. We're pleased to be with you today to discuss the fiscal year 2001 operating budget for the Department of Revenue and for the Water Revenue Bureau. I'll start off with some highlights regarding the tack side of the operation, and Denise Garrett will follow with testimony about the Water Revenue 575 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Bureau and its budget. The Fiscal 2001 General Fund appropriation request for the Department of Revenue totals $17,918,802. This is an increase of $360,779 over the Fiscal Year 2000 estimated obligations and provides full funding for 327 full-time positions. For all other expenditure classes, the department is requesting appropriation levels equal to the estimated obligations for Fiscal Year 2000. In the Grants Revenue Fund appropriation which provides funding for school tax enforcement activities and for payments to collection agencies, revenue requests an appropriation of $2,353,688. This is just $9,369 more than the Fiscal Year 2000 estimated obligations. Finally, in the water fund appropriation request which covers payment processing, we are requesting a total of $1,634,344. This provides funding for 42 full-time positions and is an increase of $126,060 over this year's estimated obligations. I'd like to make just a few comments 576 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 about our revenue collection activities. 78 billion this fiscal 7 year. This increase in tax collection has been 8 achieved at the same time that tax rates reduced 9 and the personal property tax as well as four 10 nuisance taxes were repealed. A number of 11 significant tax changes have affected these 12 collections. Some of these include the 13 legislation mandating the withholding of City wage 14 tax for Philadelphia residents who work in 15 Pennsylvania, that was state legislation, and the 16 changes that this Council has approved for the 17 business privilege tax. The increased use of data 18 matching has also served to enhance revenue 19 collection, and probably one of the largest factors in the department's ability to increase revenue collection has been the implementation of the technology improvements. The department is building single consolidated taxpayer information processing system in phases. TIFs now includes all of the self-assessed taxes and we plan to 577 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 merge the use and occupancy tax into TIFs this coming summer. With funds requested for Fiscal 2001, we expect to complete the integration by bringing the real-estate tax system into the consolidated accounting system, and we'd hope to do that by June 30, 2001. The department's cashiering remittance processing and scanning equipment has been upgraded to take advantage of technology improvements and document imaging has been added to our capabilities. These recent legislative changes and technological improvements have been design to improve taxpayer service. In addition, we continue to work to reduce telephone and walk-in waiting times, increase telephone answer rates, reduce the time it takes to answer correspondence, and improve the maintenance of correct addresses for taxpayers. Efforts are also underway to improve the accuracy and clarity of the information that we provide to taxpayers. In addition, the department is exploring the use of web-based technology to provide faster and wider access to its information 578 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 and services. These services will ultimately include the filing of tax returns and the making of payments over the Internet.

Council President Verna

I'll pause now and ask Denise Garrett to review the activities of the Water Revenue Bureau and their budget request. And then we'll both be available to answer your questions.

Councilwoman Verna

Thank you. Miss Garrett.

Ms. Garrett

Good afternoon, President Verna and members of City Council. I'm Denise Garrett, Assistant Finance Director and Chief of the Water Revenue Bureau. Thank you for the opportunity to present testimony on the Water Revenue Bureau of Fiscal Year 2001 operating budget request. The Water Revenue Bureau continues to operate under the direction of Director of Finance while maintaining a close working relationship with the revenue and water commissioners. The bureau is requesting a water fund allocation $17,418,351 in its Fiscal Year 2001 operating request, with $9,501,225 for personal services. This will include funding for 262 full-time 579 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 employs and part-time employees. We're also requesting $7,212,900 for the purchase of services and $704,226 for materials, supplies, equipment, and contribution wards. This is an increase of $484,346 from our Fiscal Year 2000 appropriation due to a negotiated increase in wages effective in the spring of 2000 and continued investments for the improved delivery of customer services and virtual call center initiatives. Focussing on its mission, the Water Revenue Bureau has undertaken many initiatives resulting in numerous achievements in the past eight years. As many of you know, in September of 1997, in conjunction with the Water Department and with the support of City Council, we began the installation of more than 460,000 automatic meter readers in all residential homes in the City. I am pleased to report that we completed this project ahead of the two-year schedule and are now in the process of automating our large commercial meter base. AMR installation means the end of inconsistent estimated readings and the beginning 580 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 of consistently accurate billing every month. We are closely tracking changes in receivable growth and decline to determine the impact of AMR. percent from one year earlier. percent for the same period in Fiscal Year 1999. 7 percent for the same period in Fiscal Year 1999. We will continue our collection strategy, which includes the use of professional collection agencies and agents to implement enforcement programs such as the Utility Services Emergency Tenants Right Act. The success of these programs can be measured in the revenue they generate. Since Fiscal Year 1998, these programs have generated gross revenues of approximately $70 million. 9 for Fiscal Year 2001. In Fiscal Year 1997, the Bureau and the Water Department initiated a complete system redesign project, including reconfiguration for Y2K compliance. This effort was successfully completed in January of 1999. The focus is now on implementation of the new customer data information system known as CDIS. The specifications were for Phase 1 delivery within Fiscal Year 2001. The CDIS contains expanded capabilities that will meet both the customer needs and the needs of representatives responsible for the delivery of efficient quality services. The new CDIS in conjunction with major changes underway in the recently combined Water Revenue Bureau and Water Department Call Center is he cornerstone of our customer-focused approach. The successful implementation of the fiscal year 1999 of the virtual Water Revenue Bureau and Water Department Call Center has allowed customers to call one number and reach all services of both departments. As a result, we experienced a 582 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 reduction in call activity and improvements in response rate and we also reduced repeat calls. With the implementation of CDIS and the expansion of our call center, we project that these improvements will continue into Fiscal Year 2001. In addition to improvements in customer service, we have stepped up our enforcement programs. This draws attention to the issue of our most vulnerable customers, the low-income customer, the elderly customer on a fixed income, and the customer with extenuating and long-term medical hardship.

Ms. Garrett

Safety nets such as grant assistance outreach and the moratorium are designed to protect customers from the loss of water services. We continue our commitment to ensure more reliable identification and sensitive handling of customers with hardships. As a result, our Water Revenue assistance program database -- as a result we are upgrading our Water Revenue assistance program database with the intention of incorporating it into the new CDIS system. We have expanded our outreach by actively participating in the energy coordinating project team reach. The ECA project which focuses on 583 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 holistic approach to helping customers solve their long-term utility affordability issues. In Fiscal Year 1999 we serviced 10,808 customers with low-income agreements, bill credits, and grant assistance totaling $897,035. In Fiscal Year 2001 our goal continues to be improving collections by improving delivery of the services to customers so that they feel they are receiving value for the rate they pay. We seek to establish excellence in performance standards and measures that hold each employee responsible and accountable for the delivery of efficient and quality service to the water and sewer customers of the City of Philadelphia. I thank you for this opportunity and am happy to answer any of your questions.

Councilwoman Verna

Thank you. Miss Garrett, how many collection agencies does the Water Revenue Bureau contract with?

Ms. Garrett

Initially we contracted with approximately seven. We had two collection agencies per portfolio, we had three separate portfolios and we had one agency that was 584 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 administering our utility services tenants rights act program.

Council President Verna

Do they receive a portion of whatever they collect?

Ms. Garrett

No. They must remit full payment to the city and then they bill back for the service fees based on the contract negotiation that we have in place. So each agency that was selected submitted a fee percentage that they would bill us for, and we subsequently receive their invoices and reviewed them and pay them that way.

Council President Verna

Is there any thought to bring back this work in-house?

Ms. Garrett

There is some thought to bringing some aspects of it, but the program has been relatively successful and very cost effective. To train our staff to be professional collectors would really be really somewhat prohibitive and it would involve expanding our staff at this particular time. As you will note in the record, we currently have 226 employees. That's down from approximately 390 employees about two years earlier. So what we're doing is we're 585 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 really sort of containing our cost by utilizing services that will give us more return for our investment dollar.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Commissioner, what is the current status of the tax lien portfolio? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: As you know, the tax lien sale took place on June 30, 1997. At that time, we sold a little over a hundred million dollars in tax claims and were paid through a bond issue approximately $75 million. That was a combination for the City and the School District. The properties that had tax claims that were included in the sale, the tax claims were referred to three servicers who are engaged in collecting those tax claims. At this point, one of those servicers has turned their portfolio over to another, so we're at two servicers who are engaged in collecting those tax claims. At this point, one of those servicers has turned their portfolio over to another so we are at two servicers who are managing the collection of the tax claims. The payments to the bondholders have 586 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 taken place on time, on schedule, for each quarter. All of the interest payments have been made and some payment has been made against principal in each quarter. The first of the sheriff sales for foreclosure on these properties took place last month. Another sale is scheduled for, I believe, tomorrow. And basically, what we are seeing is that the servicers, having exhausted normal methods in terms of contact with the owners of the properties have gone through the court process and filed and are now at the foreclosure stage on a number of properties. And as we have with the City's tax sales, they are starting to find that people who otherwise were ignoring notices are starting to come forward and pay. And so we're expecting that we'll see a lot more activity in terms of payment in the coming months as a result of foreclosure process actually taking place. People now realize they're serious.

Council President Verna

All right, thank you. Councilman Nutter, your light is on. Did you want to be recognized?

Councilman Nutter

Yes, Madam Chair. 587 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Miss Kammerdeiner, yesterday, somehow you got drug up to the table. COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: Yes.

Councilman Nutter

And we had a discussion about some wage tax issues and I think you were going to try to get for us a copy of a particular memorandum. Have we had any success with that? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: Yes, I have that. I was expecting to include that with written responses to any or all of the questions that might come up. But there is a memorandum of understanding that has been signed off by each of the sports leagues and all of the teams within the leagues including the home teams are covered by that memo of understanding, and it does provide for payments for duty days, payments of wage tax for duty days in Philadelphia. And for the home teams, that means practice days in addition to actual game days. For visiting teams it's basically game days.

Councilman Nutter

How does that agreement treat issues like incentive pay, signing bonuses and the like? 588 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: If it's part of the compensation, that becomes part of the payment that is captured within the wage tax, so it would be based on that. If that's part of their compensation in a given year, then that becomes part of the factor that would be used in calculating the tax.

Council President Verna

But that's not for visiting teams, is it, Commissioner? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: Yes, it would be -- no? I'm seeing someone shake their head no. I will verify that, but I thought any compensation was included as long as it was part of their basic compensation.

Council President Verna

Would you please check that? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: Yes, we certainly will.

Councilwoman Verna

I'm sorry, Councilman.

Councilman Nutter

That's all right. I'm assuming, Madam Chair, you were talking specifically on the signing bonus issue or the visiting teams in general? 589 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

Visiting teams in general.

Councilman Nutter

Visiting teams in general, okay. And could you indicate again just for the record that if there is some signing bonus is all of that subject to the wage tax or whatever portion the person is supposed to pay or how is that treated? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: It depends on how that is established. Sometimes those bonuses are deferred over time or it really is a matter of determination of whether or not that's a part of their compensation. As you know, with the wage tax, it's your compensation that is taxed, your earned income.

Councilman Nutter

With all due respect, Commissioner, I don't think it's a gift or I don't think it's given to them because I think they're nice; they're giving them a signing bonus because they expect them to perform. COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: That's why I'm saying that I believe that's included as part of their compensation, and depending on the 590 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 definition of the compensation, would include signing bonuses and a number of other things in the calculation.

Councilman Nutter

Now, you said depending on whose definition of the compensation? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: The City's definition. It's in regulations.

Councilman Nutter

Okay. Well, can you imagine a situation where that kind of payment would not be covered? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: I'm just going to double-check with staff who have looked at it more closely than I have and see. (Pause.) COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: What Debbie was, the Commissioner was clarifying for me and is what I was intending to say is that a signing bonus could be or would be a part of their compensation in a given year and all of the compensation in that year should be included in the calculation of their earnings for that year and the wage tax is based on that.

Councilman Nutter

And do we know that that has been the practice of the various teams as 591 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 it relates to the various players who get signed. Almost yearly they sign somebody and -- COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: That's the kind of issue that our auditors review, and this is not just with sports teams, but seeing more and more with law firm, accounting firms, and others where there are people who are in demand, there are bonuses paid or additional compensation paid, finders' fees, things like that. We look for that type of information as part of our audit and would be verifying that if someone received that as part of their compensation that was included in the firm's calculations of wage tax that were turned over to us.

Councilman Nutter

Have we had an audit of the various major sports team recently? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: I don't know that I can really indicate specifically with business tax confidentiality laws whether any particular entity has been audited recently or not, but that is an issue that we would look for in an audit.

Councilman Nutter

Okay, all right. And you said you'll provide with us a copy of the 592 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 agreement? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: Yes, I'll provide copy of the memorandum of understanding with a written response on this or any other questions that might come up.

Councilman Nutter

Great. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Commissioner. The forecasting model that you used for economic forecast when you laid the tax revenue is the REMI model, Regional Economic Model, Incorporated? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: That's correct.

Councilman Goode

How long have you been using that model? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: It's two to three years now.

Councilman Goode

It's my understanding that model was used to analyze 593 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Arthur Anderson analysis of proposals done for the stadiums? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: It was one of the things that we used as an opportunity to review the work that they had done, yes.

Councilman Goode

So you've reviewed and analyzed that information related to the construction stage or beyond the construction stage? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: I'm sorry?

Councilman Goode

You used that model to analyze things related to the construction stage or beyond construction stage? COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: Mike Isard who has been involved in using the REMI model has joined me at that table, and I think he would be in a better position to answer directly on what was used and how.

Mr. Isard

Michael Isard. The question about the REMI model, yes, it was used to forecast the impact of the contribution phase of the stadium project.

Councilman Goode

Were there any studies done beyond the construction stage? 594 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Isard

There were other studies, but they did not use the REMI model per se. They mostly relied on research used from our taxpayer database.

Councilman Goode

Aso those studies are available for Council?

Mr. Isard

I believe that the intention of the Mayor's Office is to make them available to Council, yes.

Councilman Goode

I'm sorry. I didn't hear you.

Mr. Isard

I believe the intention of the Mayor's Office is to make them available to Council.

Councilman Goode

They're not available directly through your office, through your department?

Mr. Isard

Not at this time, no. 20

Councilman Goode

Excuse me?

Mr. Isard

No, they've been forwarded to the -- okay, yes, we can provide that. It's a sensitive issue. Excuse me.

Councilman Goode

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. 595 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you, Madam President. This question is for the Revenue Department. In your testimony, you talk about one of your objectives of improving taxpayer services, and do you still have the system in place for the senior citizens or those sick and shut-in taxpayers? Because, you know, during the lien when people were coming in to make agreements and whatnot with their taxes, there were some people that were unable to stand in long lines and you did put together a special provision for those individuals. COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: At the time you're referring to, we did take and make agreements -- take information and make agreements over the telephone. We do not at the present time make payment agreements for real-estate taxes over the phone, but we will deal with it by mail and 596 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 have the cards. We can take the basic information by phone, but we will send the cards to them, have them sign the agreement cards and send them back to us, so they will not need to actually be physically present to finalize the agreement if they are unable to come in.

Councilwoman Miller

Well, one of the problems that I encountered with a constituent and some of the seniors, older adults seem to have the same problem, is that they don't deal with the checking accounts. So they either have cash or, you know, maybe they even have a hard time getting out to get a money order. I know that I personally went to someone's house and picked up their cash to bring it down and make a payment for them. And I know that might be a little bit difficult. COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: Right. I'm not sure how we can deal with that because we really can't go door to door to actually collect.

Councilwoman Miller

No. 23 COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: But we do have two service centers that have cashiers. Now, they will only take checks or money orders at the 597 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Municipal Services Building. We will accept cash. There's a security issue in terms of the service centers.

Councilwoman Miller

Right. COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: And they are not suited for cash payments in a reliable way that would be safe for both the taxpayer and the staff who would be working there. In the municipal services building, we do have a secure area and we will collect cash there.

Councilwoman Miller

In your testimony, you referred to a broader definition requires that any firm with ongoing activity in Philadelphia pay the business privilege tax. Could you explain the definition of "ongoing" that you apply in order to have the business pay the BPT. COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: You're referring to the active presence legislation that was approved by the Council two years ago, and I'm going to ask Nikki Marx to elaborate a little bit on how we're defining active presence for this purpose and how that will go into effect.

Ms. Marx

Nikki Marx, Deputy Revenue 598 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Commissioner. The active presence regulations are just about ready to be filed, and basically what it means is that anybody doing any business in the City would be required to file. If you come into the City to attend a meeting that's not otherwise involved with your business, then that would not be considered doing business in the City and you would not be required. But if you have even one customer is in the City, if it is a business customer, then you would be required to file even if you don't actually have an office or salespeople who are physically located in the City. COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: I will add to that that with the business privilege license, which is a $200 license that is in perpetuity, it isn't a renewable license, a lot of people found that if they were only coming in for a short period of time, for example, a convention and selling at a trade area in a convention for two or three days that that was onerous. There is a short business license for the purpose of providing trade show or other short duration. I believe that's a three-day period in a given 599 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 calendar year. If you're going to come back on a recurring basis, then the business privilege license, the full license, would be the most appropriate. But even that person who is here just the two or three days for a trade fair or conference where they're selling in Philadelphia would be liable for the business privilege tax for that time period.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you. Just a couple more questions.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. COMMISSIONER KAMMERDEINER: Thank you.

Council President Verna

The Board of Revision of Taxes. Mr. Glancey. (Board of Revision of Taxes witnesses come forward.)

Council President Verna

Good afternoon. Thank you so much for your patience.

Mr. Glancey

Good afternoon, Council 600 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 President and members of City Council. My name is David Glancey and I'm the Chairman of the Philadelphia Board of Revision of Taxes. With me today are the Secretary of the Board Robert Nix and the Executive Director of the Board, Rick Folia (ph). Harvey Levin, our newest member was here and he did have to leave, but he sends his regards. Harvey was elected our board in November and served on the Board of Review for about seven years. In the interest of time, I intend just to point out a couple of things in our testimony as opposed to going through and highlighting everything. If you just look on , the School District budget for this year is actually $60,000 more than you see on the printed budget. And that reason is -- thank you, Council President and your staff for all the help that you've given us. The School District now has a step program and a career path for our School District employees. That was passed by resolution on February 7th, and the reason that it is not in the testimony as you see is because we had to preprint the testimony prior to that date. 601 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Also, if you would look on , which is the only other thing point out to you before we take any questions, It shows a chart of residences. If you look at the row dwellings from 1997 through 1999 and if you look at the mean price increase, it's about percent. And if you 8 look at the semidetached dwellings, the twins and 9 duplexes, things like that, you'll see another 10 lesser increase. And then finally, if you look at 11 the detached dwellings, you will see another substantial increase over the time period 1997 through 1999. The 1999 raw figures are really about half year. We do not have the full year figures in for '99 simply because we don't have those documents yet in from the Department of Records. However, I think it does show for the first time in a long while that we have seen residential values increasing at a rather nice rate in the City. We've seen that happen with commercial properties for the last three or four years, and it does look like residences are attempting to catch up and I thought it would be important to note that to City Council. And with that, we'll take any questions 602 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 that you might have.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Mr. Glancey, you state in your testimony that the board's 2000 predetermined ratio remains at 32 percent. Are you able to maintain this level throughout the five-year plan period?

Mr. Glancey

Yes, I believe we will.

Council President Verna

Is there any danger that the predetermined ratio could drop?

Mr. Glancey

Well, I suppose there's always that danger if the market just happens to go absolutely berserk, but under normal circumstance it would seem to me that the 32 percent will not drop over the five-year plan's life.

Council President Verna

Were you consulted by the City's Finance Department with regards to the assessment growth assumptions contained in the FY 2001 budget and the City's five-year plan?

Mr. Glancey

I don't know if "consult" would be the right word. I mean we get asked --

Council President Verna

Discussion, inquiry? 603 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Glancey

An inquiry was made, Council President.

Council President Verna

Okay.

Mr. Glancey

In all seriousness, this has happened.

Council President Verna

I think the word really is "consulted."

Mr. Glancey

It, quite frankly, it makes sense for the Finance Department to see what we are projecting as growth, if anything. And the real growth that we would show for the year 2001 is there. So sure, that does take place, but it really is just transferring numbers as opposed to consulting and talking about it or trying to say "is that all you can do" or "are you doing too much?" None that takes place. It's just "what are the numbers".

Council President Verna

So they simply make inquiry?

Mr. Glancey

That's correct.

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Mr. Glancey

You're welcome.

Council President Verna

Councilman Nutter, your life light is on. Do you want to be 604 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 recognized?

Councilman Nutter

Mr. Glancey, in looking at the , I notice that there is a pretty significant drop in the number of row dwellings sold between 1998 and 1999. Actually, for every type of unit there is a drop from 16,000 in '98 to 6,000 in '99; 3100 in semidetached to 2000; and 1200 to 700 in the detached dwellings. What, if any, significance --

Mr. Glancey

I'm sorry. I guess I didn't make it clear. Those are not complete figures for 1999. What happens is, is that we get the most current figures that is we can get from the Department of Records of recorded instruments.

Councilman Nutter

Okay.

Mr. Glancey

Those are the ones that we have used. It's about a half a year figure what you're saying seeing for 1999. If you would look at -- and I know you do, Councilman, you keep our testimony from prior years. If you would look at our testimony from prior years --

Councilman Nutter

Oh, I have a warehouse of it. (Laughter.) 605 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Glancey

If looked at our testimony from prior years, you would see that the $16,000 figure last year came in here around this time at about 8,000, so it's just simply not a complete year.

Councilman Nutter

It's a matter of trying to catch up.

Mr. Glancey

That is correct, that is correct.

Councilman Nutter

I'll add this to the pile.

Mr. Glancey

Yes, sir. Thank you.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Mr. Glancey.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you, Madam Chair. We've utilized many, many TIFs, tax increment financing schemes, to move forward development of many, many projects, I guess for the most part, hotels, but other types of entertainment, recreational projects that have either been on the board ready to go or soon to be on the board. 606 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Do you have an opinion over watching through the number of years we've been implementing this tool, the direction that we're going? Are we at our TIF limit? Are we under-TIFed, over-TIFed? Are you TIFed off? (Laughter.)

Councilman Kenney

You guys have been watching this now for a long, long time. What do you see?

Mr. Glancey

Again, as you say, it's our opinion.

Councilman Kenney

Yeah.

Mr. Glancey

I don't think we're over-TIFed. Once this phenomenon of TIFs and abatements and other kinds of tax incentives started to in the last eight or ten years really get a foothold in the City, we have watched I think some substantial development. What we did as a board was just make some very, very quick and dirty studies of other cities throughout country. I suppose the TIF capital of the world is Chicago, and that's what we've discovered. And Chicago has done extremely well in doing what they've done. And again, we all have to remember that these 607 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 structures that we have, the tax structures, differ if city to city. The authorizations differ from city to city. In Pennsylvania we are so restricted by what is known as the uniformity clause, it has a terrific effect. We can't have two tiers of taxation for various types of property. As that as a background, Councilman, my opinion is the more the better. It seems to me that the benefits that we get, whether it be in the actual wages paid to people who are working on these projects, but even more importantly, and not just with the hotel because some of that is very temporary, we need to increase the population in the City of Philadelphia, and I think we have to do that in any way possible. And one of the ways that we have seen, or at least in my opinion, have seen that take root is to offer these kind of incentives. Again, not just for the construction, but for the permanent base of some office building, some folks moving in here because of the abatement, the development of apartments, the ten-year apartment abatement, all of these things taken together I think are very important. And my 608 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 sense is that if you take one away, it might have an impact on the whole, so I don't think we are over-TIFed. I believe maybe that we should look at the projects maybe somewhat more carefully. And again, I'm not criticizing anybody for what has been done in the past. I think all of these things have been very important, but in the future maybe what we ought to do is to say, "Well, we have enough of this type of property. Maybe we ought not to be TIF-ing this type property. But we don't have this type of property and maybe that's some place where we really ought to put our muscle and our incentives to try and get that."

Councilman Kenney

Without saying so, we maybe have utilized this tool maybe in our limit on hotels, you know, because as we look past the Republican National Convention, we're talking about the expansion of the Convention Center to keep up with hotel occupancy and number of rooms.

Councilman Kenney

The other problem that we have, I think, is that we really don't offer middle-class families a residential choice within their pocketbook range. The people that I 609 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 know are simply anecdotal who have moved from the City to either South Jersey or the suburbs are people who wanted to move from a rowhouse to a single family home with a garage or a lawn, some other amenities, a family room. Their pocketbook range was the 130 to 160 kind of range that you find in Turnersville and Washington Township and Springfield, Delaware County and places like that where a lot of these people have moved. There are very few places in Philadelphia that you can find a single detached stand-alone home with the suburban amenities that people are looking for when they move up from rowhouses in Mayfair or South Philly or Fishtown and those places. Unless you move into the suburbs or South Jersey, if you go into East Falls, for example, you're not going to find a single home under 275, 300. If you go to places in the Northeast, you're not going to find them under 200. We basically have invested a lot of our money, whether it's state federal dollars, into low and moderate income housing, which I think is wonderful to do because we're housing as many people as you possibly can. But there's that whole cohort of people that are the 610 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 ones we're trying to save that we're really not giving any choice to other than moving outside the city. I mean, even in South Philadelphia, for example, in places that have traditionally been stable neighborhoods like Packer Park and Britton Estates, they're not even detached homes. They're townhouse-type homes that are selling for 180, 190, 210, 250. But that 120, 130 to 160 range, I don't know if you can find it here in Philadelphia. And we've been looking at some ways to incentives that, and any information or any incentives that you could think of that would help us get there, any kind of residential TIF in that regard. Because a lot of people who have moved said, "You know, I really didn't want to go. I wasn't unhappy with the schools. I wasn't unhappy with my neighborhood. My wife just drove me crazy because she wanted a bigger house and we couldn't find a bigger house in Philly that we could afford." We really do fall sort of giving people those kind of options.

Mr. Glancey

I agree with you. I'm not so sure it is necessarily an incentive. I 611 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 think we have a limited supply of what we need to solve that problem, and that's land. We have a limited supply. Up in Councilman Nutter's district, there is a development that is taking place. I think it's 85 or 90 of the type single-family homes that you're talking about. There is some supply up there. If we had a, you know, if you had the land, I think you can find developers who are going to do this with the incentives that we currently have to offer.

Councilman Kenney

Well, projects that are going on had been completed in northern New Jersey across from Manhattan in old industrial brown fields land that have reclamated and reused and have really created a neighborhood. And what's nice about is you wind up creating an integrated neighborhood but of all people with same economic background. Because I know people who have moved to the suburbs for fear of changing neighborhoods and find out that their neighbors are now of a different color background in their new home, but say, "Well, you know, the guy works same kind of job I work and it's the same kind of people." I'm glad you had in our epiphany, but 612 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 you had to leave the city to find that out. And I think that's one of the things -- anything that the Board or your staff could come up with to help us get there would be a help.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Goode.

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Mr. Glancey.

Mr. Glancey

Good afternoon.

Councilman Goode

With regard to the Keystone opportunities, there's a chart in the back of your written testimony, KOZ chart that cites Commerce Department applications. Can you tell me what those applications are for?

Mr. Glancey

I'm sorry?

Councilman Goode

Can you tell me what applications are for?

Mr. Glancey

They're applications to be located in the Keystone opportunity zone.

Councilman Goode

Are property owners 613 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 that are tax delinquent able to apply?

Mr. Glancey

Tax exempt property owners?

Councilman Goode

That are tax delinquent property owners.

Mr. Glancey

Oh, I would doubt that. The reason I can't say for sure is because we keep these applications, the Department of Commerce really does the -- they do the follow-through. You file first with Commerce and then the follow-through is with Commerce. But I'm just informed by the Revenue Commissioner that they, in fact, do tax delinquency checks. And if you do have a tax delinquency, you will not get the benefit of being in a KOZ.

Councilman Goode

There are tax delinquent properties listed here.

Mr. Glancey

If you will point those out to the Revenue Commissioner, I'm sure she will look that up.

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco. 614 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Tasco

Just in time. You thought you were going to get away.

Mr. Glancey

I thought I was getting away Scott-free.

Councilwoman Tasco

I just have a couple of questions if I can find them here. You're familiar with the Logan area, the sinking home area.

Councilwoman Tasco

Is there any possible way that your department could help us identify -- let me just first say, there are a number of -- all of that land there at one time there was a house on the land.

Councilwoman Tasco

A number of the people who were there, some of them have left and some were settled, others were not. Is there any way that the Board of Revision of Taxes can help us identify who might have been --

Mr. Glancey

About how far back do you need to go, Councilwoman?

Councilwoman Tasco

This would go to '86. 615 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Glancey

Oh, yes, I think we can help you that. I think we may have some of that in our records as they exist; if not, we can certainly using our staff go to the Department of Records and get you that information, we'd be happy to do that.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay.

Mr. Glancey

I guess the best thing in order for us to help you if you would just send us a list of those properties.

Councilwoman Tasco

I'll have someone -- they do have a staff person. I'll have the staff person from Logan contact you. They can better decide which way you can help.

Mr. Glancey

And we'd be happy to that.

Councilwoman Tasco

I don't think I have anymore at this time.

Mr. Glancey

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you, gentlemen. And again, thank you for your patience.

Mr. Glancey

Appreciate it.

Council President Verna

Oh, I'm 616 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 sorry, Councilwoman Brown's light just went on. Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. As a new Councilmember I will be looking and paying close attention to children, youth, education; education, children, and youth. That's what I care about. In reading the testimony I look to see how numbers impact that community. So to that end, I see that the School District received a total of 427 million in the year 2000. Is that the fiscal year or the program year?

Mr. Glancey

That is in our calendar year.

Councilwoman Brown

Calendar year?

Councilwoman Brown

What's the history, if you will, as well as the projection of the future real-estate tax revenues?

Mr. Glancey

I'm sorry I didn't hear you, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Brown

The history as well as the projection of the future of real 617 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 estate tax revenues? And if this forum or this opportunity is not long enough, can you provide that information to Madam Chair?

Mr. Glancey

Certainly.

Councilwoman Brown

Could you please?

Councilwoman Brown

Add to that, when you provide that information, what have we collected in the last few years and what do you project revenues to be in the upcoming, I guess, 48 months.

Mr. Glancey

What you're asking us is a history of what we -- our values would project out as real property tax collections for the School District in the City?

Councilwoman Brown

Yes, yes.

Mr. Glancey

Okay, I will work with the Department of Revenue to get that and I will also do the same thing with any projection that you ask. Basically, we have done some projections for the five-year plan. I don't know if you want us to just give you that or give you something more comprehensive.

Councilwoman Brown

I think that's a 618 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 beginning, yes. Thank you.

Mr. Glancey

You're quite welcome. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)

Council President Verna

Again, thank you.

Mr. Glancey

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Managing Director's Office is next. (Managing Director's witness come forward.)

Council President Verna

Thank you for your patience.

Mr. Martz

Good afternoon, President Verna and members of Council. I am Joseph Martz Managing Director of City of Philadelphia. Joining me Estelle Richman, City's Director of Social Services. Today we're here to present testimony on the proposed Managing Director's operating budget for Fiscal Year 2001 and to answer any 619 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 questions you may have. 3 million in grants funds. The Fiscal Year 2001 General Fund budget request represents an increase of $107,000 from Fiscal Year 2000 estimated obligations. This increase is entirely in Class 100 to support negotiated wage increases. The budget in the Grants Fund contains an increase of approximately $825,000 from Fiscal Year 2000 estimated obligations. The majority of this increase is the result of increased grants funding for hazardous materials removal programs, alternative fields programs, and other environmental and solar energy initiatives. 7 million to fund the administration division to perform both administrative and management functions such as fiscal personnel and grants administration and management analysis as well as neighbor-based functions such as management of the 620 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 municipal service centers in Northeast Philadelphia. $392,000 for the Office of Emergency Management and the Emergency Operations Center which is responsible for coordinating the City's response to crisis situations such as environmental incidents, natural and man-made disasters, and weather emergencies. 1 million for the targeted assistance program to provide employment-related social services primarily to refugees and entrants recently arrived from eastern Europe, Africa, southeast Asian. And translation services for members of the refugee community in routine matters as well as in police contact. 2 million for the Criminal Justice Coordinating Office to ensure that the prison population is managed to continue to seek appropriate alternatives to incarceration for non-violent criminals. The offices also serves as Mayor's coordinating arm for drug control policy. $2 million for the Municipal Energy Office, which is responsible for optimizing energy use in City facilities, reducing city government's 621 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 energy-related expenditures, fostering the development and implementation of energy efficient technologies and protecting the environment. And 390,000 for the Police Advisory Commission which advises the Managing Director and the Police Commissioner on policies and actions of the Police Department in order to improve the ability of police personnel to carry out their duties and improve the relations between the Police Department and the community. Traditionally, the Managing Director's office provided oversight, support, and assistance to the 13 operating departments that it directly supervises. Too often this assistance was delivered on a departmental basis with little coordination on cross-cutting issues. Complex urban problems including blight, graffiti, crime, homelessness, and the loss to both jobs and residents to the suburbs have demanded that comprehensive coordinated initiatives be developed to target a variety of special needs. In the last few years the Managing Director's Office has broadened its mission in order to assume responsibility for organizing, coordinating, and 622 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 supervising major inter-departmental programs. This approach has yielded some impressive results. The Partners for Progress initiative which coordinates personnel from the Streets, Water, Police, L&I, Public Health, and Human Services departments as well the office of Fleet Management and the Mayor's Office Community Services is just one example of benefit of this approach.

Mr. Martz

The success of Partners for Progress helped paved the way for Operation Sunrise which combines the blight removal resources City's department with a strong police presence in the West Kensington section of the City. Moving forward, the Managing Director's Office will continue this approach by expanding successful programs such as Partners for Progress, Operation Sunrise, Town Watch, and Anti-graffiti Campaign while helping to coordinate new initiatives such as an expansion of the City's abandoned vehicle program and the Mayor's saving neighborhoods campaign to eradicate blight. The MDO through the Director of Social Services will also help coordinate the Mayor's KIDS involved in developing skills initiative to help expand 623 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 after-school programs throughout the City. Further, to help improve coordination of municipal service delivery, the MDO has begun the progress of reorganization its administrative division so that oversight of the City's operating departments and offices will fall into three different areas, public services, social services, and City services. The public services area will encompass the services provided by police, fire, streets, and Records Departments, the Department of Licenses and Inspections, and Fairmount Park. The social services area which is headed by Estelle Richman will include the Departments of Health, Human Services, Recreation, the Philadelphia Prison System, and the Office of Emergency Shelter and Services. The City services area will oversee the services provided by the Office of Fleet Management, the Department of Public Property, the Capital Program Office, and the Mayor's Office of Information Services, and the Municipal Energy Office. In addition, at the direction of Mayor 624 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Street, the MDO has begun working with the Streets Department and the Office of Fleet Management to experiment with different types of snow-fighting equipment that will be better able to maneuver down some of the City's smaller streets. Among the options currently under review are purchasing new equipment, outfitting smaller vehicles in the City's existing fleet with snow fighting equipment or building a reserve snow-fighting fleet from older City vehicles. I would also like to note that the MDO will play key logistical role in planning and coordinating the delivery of all City services required for the Republican National Convention. I'm personally excited by this challenge and am looking forward to coordinating all departmental workers involved with the convention to help ensure that the City puts its best face in front of the nation. Finally, I'd like to take a moment to commend the excellent work of the City's Emergency Services personnel during last week's construction accident at the Regional Performing Arts Center. The quick response of City workers in the fire, 625 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 police, and Licenses and Inspections Department helped ensure what we all hope to will be a speedy recovery for all injured workers. As I was reminded during the recent snow emergency, City employees in every department work tirelessly when needed most performing the otherwise thankless task of keeping City and its residents safe, and I would publicly like to thank them. This concludes my testimony. Thank you for your time. Estelle and I are available to answer questions.

Council President Verna

I would like to thank you personally for doing such a wonderful job during that snowfall.

Mr. Martz

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

I have a couple questions. I know you have indicated the role that the Managing Director's Office will play as far as the organizational. Could we have a chart of the functions so that we could refer to it in the future?

Mr. Martz

I will provide that for you. 626 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

What role will the Manager Director's Office have in the Abandoned Vehicle Program, the Blight Program and the KIDS Initiative?

Mr. Martz

Let me start with the Abandoned Vehicle Program. We are actually coordinating the activities for the Abandoned Vehicle Program. We're working cooperatively with the Office of Fleet Management, the Procurement Current Department, and most importantly the Philadelphia Police Department. I believe in the next three weeks that the Mayor will be holding an announcement and will more than likely brief you ahead of time on what the overall program's going to be. As far as the Blight Initiative is concerned, I think right now we're actually waiting for the Neighborhood Revitalization Committee of the Mayor's Transition Task Force to complete its report and provide that to Joyce Wilkerson, the Secretary for Strategic Initiatives. Our role likely will be one of just what it would be for abandoned vehicles, which is a coordinating function. A number of our agencies 627 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 will be involved in the Blight Initiative and we will act as coordinating arm. As far as the KIDS Initiative is concerned, I'll let Estelle talk a little bit about that.

Ms. Richman

I'm Estelle Richman, Director of Social Services. We are looking at all services for children, including after-school programs and formulation of children's budget to coordinating all of the departments that have any activity with children in this area. At this point in time I'm meeting with all of the key commissioners, the Commissioner of Public Health, Human Services, Recreation, Homeless, all in some way have children in their program and have to arrange for after-school programs, child care programs, and health care programs. There are those children, and what the Managing Director's Office will do now is coordinate.

Council President Verna

KIDS Initiative, what the age for the children who participate in any of the programs?

Ms. Richman

As we formulate the Office of Child Care, we'll be looking at children 628 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 who are preschool which means children as young as could be or whose parents need child care in order to return to and we'll be working up to the age of 18, although we certain work with young adults who for other reasons may need some type of care because of a disability or a handicap, so we'll be looking at the full range of childhood.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Mr. Martz, you indicate that your office will oversee the Mayor's Office of Information Services. Will that office be reporting to your office and who will set the priorities?

Mr. Martz

The office as it stands right now, yes, the office will be reporting to me. And I hope to work cooperatively with the head of the Mayor's Office of Information Services in establishing policy, but as it stands right now, that person is it technologist and like the professionals we find in the specific fields I like to work cooperatively with those commissioners that work with me, for me. I don't see that being any different with the Chief Information Officer of the City of Philadelphia. 629 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

What changes, if any, should we expect to see as a result of the change?

Mr. Martz

Hopefully, a little better coordination maybe between all of the affected departments. I mean, there are obviously a lot of IT initiatives that take place around the City right now affecting, for most of part, most the departments and agencies that report to the Managing Director's Office.

Council President Verna

What is the City's current prison population, and what steps is your office taking to keep the prison population level at an acceptable level?

Mr. Martz

Dianne Granlund is here just to answer that question for you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Okay. (Dianne Granlund comes forward.)

Council President Verna

Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record.

Ms. Granlund

Dianne Granlund, Deputy Managing Director for Criminal Justice Population 630 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Management. Good afternoon, Madam President and members of Council. This morning's population was roughly 6500 in-house. We are continuing to develop alternative to incarceration for non-violent offenders who are evaluated for whatever kind of program is deemed necessary to hopefully reintroduce them to the law-abiding life and make them taxpayers which we need desperately. We have over the last several years gone from having roughly 250 people in active treatment at any given time to the present number today is over a thousand people who otherwise would have been in jail.

Council President Verna

Tell us about the programs, the alternative programs, please just for the record, if you will.

Ms. Granlund

If I could just have one moment here.

Councilwoman Verna

Take your time.

Ms. Granlund

Thank you. I write this down so I don't have to remember it. We have -- and it would depend on the point at which the offender is in the criminal 631 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 justice system. For example, he might be pretrial, he might be posttrial, he might be sentenced, he might be out on parole. So these programs address offenders at every single stage of the process. The first program that we developed back in 1993 was called the Forensic Intensive Recovery Program, F-I-R, we call it FIR, that is an early parole program for offenders who are presently incarcerated in the Philadelphia prison system. As of December 31, we had 447 people active in that program. These folks are evaluated by a clinical evaluation unit to determine level of care and length of stay. The Department of Public Health through its office of drug and alcohol programs closely monitors these programs. We offer housing and parole supervision through the court system, electronic monitoring if it's necessary. And these people are followed up for roughly 12 to 18 months during their parole period with constant supervision and constant treatment. Funded by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania through the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency is the Restrictive 632 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Intermediate Punishment Program through which people who are perhaps in jail pretrial but perhaps not in jail pretrial, but who if convicted would be in jail in our local facilities are directly sentenced to treatment in lieu of incarceration. And again, it's the same kind of clinical evaluation and follow-up and after-care and constant monitoring by the parties that are involved in the process. We had 222 active people in the Intermediate Punishment Program on December 31, 1999. The Female Offenders Comprehensive and Integrated Services Network, FOCIS for short, is funded by the Center for Substance Abuse Treatment which IS a federal program. It has been in operation since September of 1995. It IS directed, obviously, to women offenders at any stage in the criminal justice process, whether they have children or they don't have children, and it's a fully -- as the title suggests it's a comprehensive service to women. It's culturally relevant and gender specific. We have a Philadelphia Treatment Court which was the first treatment court in the 633 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. It is judicially supervised treatment where an offender who is jail-bound if he's convicted reports periodically to the court and is supervised directly by the court and treatment coordinators within the court system. Judge Louis Pesenza as a the presiding judge of this court. And as of December 31, there were 264 active people. We have new directions for women which is not a treatment program, but we are using as a housing program for women who will get drug treatment in another location, And they have capacity for women. 15

Council President Verna

Thank you 16 very much for your very informative response. You 17 are well prepared. You must have known that 18 question was going to be asked. 19 (Laughter.) 20

Council President Verna

Thank you. 21

Ms. Granlund

You're welcome. 22

Council President Verna

Mr. Martz, on 23 of the detail, it indicates that your 24 office will spend $1.5 million on anti-drug and 25 Town Watch initiatives. Would you please provide 634 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 us with a breakdown of the various groups that will be funded?

Mr. Martz

Yes, I'll provide it to your office, I absolutely will.

Council President Verna

Could you send that to me and I'd be more than happy to circulate that. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Martz, I want to echo something that you said earlier and also complement you. The efforts of the City employees and your office in coordinating snow removal in this past storm was phenomenal.

Mr. Martz

Thanks, Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

I know you were here back in '96 when we got dumped on probably two times or more what we received in January, but I remember your efforts back then which were phenomenal. As a matter of fact, I think I remember you driving by my house one evening with a front loader yourself.

Mr. Martz

Thank you. 635 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Kenney

So I mean, you talk about hands-on, we have it. I think what the responsibility of the City is generally is kind of getting those main arteries open, the snow emergency routes, getting the buses running, getting people back to work. I guess the question that I'm moving towards is the issue of snow removal on little streets. I think in '96 our former mayor, no matter how much we may have loved him, probably presented the case in such a poor way that upset a lot of people when he, and I will paraphrase him, kind of get a shovel and start digging yourself out, which is probably not the appropriate way to put it. And I think that this mayor to his credit is attempting to go approach this problem in a more sensitive and understanding way to those people who have lived on -- I don't live on a small street now, but I did for 32 years -- what people go through living on small street in 15-inch or more snowstorm. In addition to looking for appropriate equipment to kind of move the snow around, because we do one of two things often with the snow, we 636 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 either pick it up and take it somewhere or we move it around, kind of just push it around. In '96 I think we got special permission to kind pick some stuff up and put it in the River over the first 6 or 48 hours. I think EPA allowed us to do certain 7 thing which let us get kind of ahead of the curb a 8 little bit. I called your office and I'm sure 9 Councilpeople did many times both this snow and in 10 '96 when came to people who needed to get out for 11 dialysis, children who needed to get out to 12 school, really kind of accommodating special 13 circumstance on little streets. 14 Considering the number of small streets 15 there are in the City and how difficult it is to 16 move it around and you can't really pick it up, 17 how realistic are we being in raising the bar of 18 expectation that somehow the next snowstorm or 19 snowstorm afterwards the person living on Cantrell 20 Street is somehow within a reasonable length of 21 time is going to have a clean street that they can 22 drive their car out of? 23

Mr. Martz

That's a great question. 24 If you think back to 1996 a little bit, we spent $23 million to move the snow out of the City of 637 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Philadelphia that year, and that included us dumping, I don't even remember how many metric tons of it into the Schuylkill and Delaware rivers, but $23 million. At the end of that process, we would determined it would cost us between 40 and $70 million to have the properly equipped fleet to deal with snow removal in the City of Philadelphia. That's a tremendous amount of money that comes out of the General Fund that essentially isn't used for any other services if we decide if we're going to approach snow-fighting the way they do in Buffalo and places like that. So absent that, what else can we do and what could we do a little bit better, and what new techniques have developed since then? And interestingly enough, one of the things that did come out of '96 storm was that our Office of Fleet Management began to change out some of the equipment that we had in the City of Philadelphia. We have a number of four-by-four pickup trucks in the City of Philadelphia which we didn't have in 1996. And as a result of that we can put plows and salt spreaders on to those vehicles. We didn't necessarily have the equipment, the necessary 638 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 plows and salt spreaders at this time, but we certainly had the equipment to at least get through the snow. So my expectation is we'll be able to do more of that kind of thing. Now, are there other techniques that are available? Interesting enough, we were down at the airport a week after the snowstorm. They now, because they have limited space down at the airport, melt snow. They don't just go stack it up somewhere, they actually melt it. It's extremely expensive equipment at this point because it is fairly new still. But could we use this kind of equipment? They're the kind of things that we're looking at. Could we bring snow out of the neighborhood possibly and into, for the very small streets and say, for example, South Philadelphia and put it in Veterans Stadium parking lot, put salt melter there and begin the process of melting it? The possibility is there. The cost of that is something that we'll have to collectively decide. We'll come back here and say, "Look, these are the ideas that we have. This is what it's going to cost us to do it. Do we want to go it that far?" I think we can do a better job of 639 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 pushing the snow around right now, something that we aren't doing well enough at this point. But I don't know at what point we have to determine whether the cost is too high to either take it somewhere else or melt it. I mean if we have to make $20 million decisions every time we have a 15-inch snowfall around here, that definitely has an impact on the other things that we want to do the rest of the fiscal year.

Councilman Kenney

I think some of the problem that we face is where we're located in our snow incidents. Again, you mentioned Buffalo and places like Erie, places in Minnesota where their government is geared to dealing with snow probably from November to April. We may have a major snow incident once every three, four, or five years, and I think what happens is -- I think part of the problem is our people themselves, and as a citizen of Philadelphia for my lifetime I think I can say this. I think times changed where 20, 25, 30 years ago, neighborhoods shovelled each other out. They didn't throw the snow from their pavement into the middle of their small street. One of the things I found a problem in South Philadelphia, 640 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 for example, is instead of kind of shovelling their snow to the end of the curb, they had this fascination with getting every ounce of snow off every square inch of their pavement, wind up throwing it in the middle of the street creating snow mountain that doesn't leave till May. And I think part of it is education, part of it is levels of expectation and what people really expect the government to do and what they're responsible for doing. I think we have -- if you're young enough and healthy enough, you have a responsibility to take care of the pavements of the older people on your street, something that I was raised to go -- my mother's would say, "Here's a shovel, go shovel Mrs. O'Malley's pavement because she can't get out." I mean, that was something you grew being told to do. Again, times have changed. Nothing is like it used to be. I just don't want to be in a position where we at some point in time allow people to expect in two or three snow storms from now that somehow the Cat in the Hat -- I have a little kid so . . . The Cat in the Hat Comes Back is where the cat takes off his hat, waves his wand 641 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 and all the snow goes into his hat. We're never going to be in that situation, and I do admire thinking of the box, trying to maybe move the snow from the end of each street so that the storm drains work better and do things that kind of make it easier or less cumbersome on people when it snows. It is a natural event and it happens and eventually it goes away as we just saw this weekend.

Mr. Martz

It's interesting. I should probably take a little bit of the blame for what happened to the Mayor Rendell in '96 because he actually asked me, "What did you do when you were younger?" I said, "Well, we dug out our street." (Laughter.)

Mr. Martz

So he gets on TV and actually talked about it. But you're right, it cost an awful lot of money to move snow. And this was an unprecedented cold spell we went through. Rarely do we have a four week stint where we don't get warm weather somewhere in the midst of it all.

Councilman Kenney

I just want to have some discussion with you, and again, thank you for 642 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 the good work you guys did.

Councilman Rizzo

Council President?

Council President Verna

Yield. Do you mind?

Councilman Rizzo

Managing Director Martz, I have a question about 1996 when you claim we spent $23 million on snow removal. Today, if had another snow incident like that, an event like that, are all these contracts in place? You said something very interesting that how do you we know how many tons of snow we're paying to remove from the streets of the City. $23 million when there's an emergency doesn't sound like a lot of money, but in July it does. Do we have all these contract in place, and how pay for snow removal? How are all these contracts assembled that when you push the button and say "Get out there and start removing snow," that there's an accounting process that adds up to $23 million?

Mr. Martz

We actually have a -- we decide our own overtime costs associated with moving snow, and we can obviously verify that pretty easily. We pay, if bring contractor equipment in to do something, we pay by the hour 643 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 for that equipment, and it's depending on type of equipment we use. It has an hourly rate associated with it. So we actually can control how long or how short we use the equipment. If we bring it on for a snowstorm, we generally have to keep it on for eight hours. But anything over eight hours, we can say at the ninth hour, "you're cut loose and go," and we know how pieces we ordered and how much pay an hour for it.

Councilman Rizzo

Do your Streets Department supervisors have supervision over those contracts for productivity purposes? Do we know we're getting eight hours of --

Mr. Martz

Yes. We have supervisors on the street. We have district highway engineers and then we have supervisors on the street that supervise the contractors as well as our own City employees. We bring people in from the bridge division and other things just to oversee the actual removal of snow.

Councilman Rizzo

So an example, a contractor's frontend loader breaks after one hour of use, we don't wind up paying for eight hours?

Mr. Martz

That's theoretically, 644 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 correct, yes.

Councilman Rizzo

Theoretically correct? So that's all down in black and white?

Mr. Martz

Yes, it is.

Councilman Rizzo

Great. Thank you Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

If I have any time, I'll just ask the final question.

Council President Verna

How much more time do you need?

Councilman Kenney

Just one question on the prisons.

Council President Verna

Fine.

Councilman Kenney

What I wanted to know is whether or not we've explored any opportunities of dealing with prison space, perhaps renting it, so to speak, from other counties throughout the Commonwealth, throughout the region, or exploring opportunities for privately-built and run prisons similar to what they've done in Delaware County with the Wackethut 645 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Company (ph), what we're doing about that?

Ms. Richman

We are renting space from Delaware County, in fact, for prisoners.

Councilman Kenney

At the Wackethut facility?

Ms. Richman

We have approximately 260 people there, and we are continuing to look for other space for prisoners. We haven't investigated at this point a private contractor to do that, but it's something that we could take under advisement and begin to look at. But we are trying to first control some of our population factors in the City as opposed to moving. But moving puts so much out of it because there's certainly limitations upon transportation, monitoring, and other factors when we have people out of the City.

Councilman Kenney

From my perspective, that's an economic development issue. If we can secure someone who is terrorizing a community in a facility and they're in the community again at least until their trial or even after, certainly that's something that's going to make our neighborhoods a lot better to live in. 646 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Martz

I just wanted to add, if you don't mind, and you might want to talk to the commissioner about this a little bit, but interestingly enough, a lot of times when we do find capacity somewhere else, they want to select the type of people that we send to them. They're not really anxious to have some criminals.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.

Councilman Goode

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Mr. Martz and Miss Richman. Under organizational chart for the Street administration previously released, the Mayor's Office of Community Services is placed under the jurisdiction of the social services area under the Managing Office's Office. Is that still the case?

Ms. Richman

That is still the case.

Councilman Goode

Would MOCS still retain oversight of the Empowerment Zone Program.

Ms. Richman

While the Empowerment Zone falls under the Empowerment Zone, they really 647 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 operate two separate programs and so there is not a reporting relationship between the Empowerment Zone director and the MOCS director. I know that the budget are combined, but there's not a reporting relationship there. It's a budget oversight.

Councilman Goode

But there is fiscal responsibility, fiscal oversight?

Ms. Richman

There is fiscal oversight, and that will probably fall, as it will for many of the departments falling under Social Services, much of that physical oversight will be done by my office and the Managing Director to make sure there's integration and that there is some coordination between all of the services as opposed to seeing them operate totally independent of the each other.

Councilman Goode

So you will now have fiscal oversight over the Empowerment Zone Program?

Councilman Goode

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Councilwoman 648 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon. In your testimony on , you indicated that the Administration provides neighborhood-based services such as the management of municipal service centers in North Philadelphia, Northeast. Do you anticipate locating additional service centers in other areas, for example, West Philadelphia?

Mr. Martz

It's not programmed at this time, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Blackwell

What can we -- nothing on -- what do we need to do to get a little bit of something on a modified scale? Can we talk about it?

Mr. Martz

We sure can. We absolutely can.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You might include South Philadelphia in that, too, please.

Mr. Martz

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Anybody else 649 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 want to be included? (Laughter.)

Council President Verna

Councilwoman, are you finished?

Councilwoman Blackwell

Yes.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Madam President. Madam President, we still have the five-minute limit? I'm going to ask all of my questions at once and hopefully extend my time. Mr. Martz, in your testimony, it talked about Partners for Progress, and I don't know, the Police Department may want to follow up a little later on, particularly Operation Sunrise. One of the problems that I've had in the eastern part of my district is that my understanding is that the crime-related activity, the drug-selling, the abandoned vehicles are fining their way into other parts of the area. Essentially, you're running them from Stage and Stage to Stage 4, which happens to be my district. And my question is, what are we going to do to respond to that? And this has been going on for about a year now, and 650 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 I've really been getting beat over the head with this inundation into crime and drug selling and things of that nature. The second part, because I want to extend my time. The question of accessibility compliance, I've had difficulty getting some responses on this. On a lot of these intersections, we ask for the handicapped ramps for the sidewalks. Have been unable to get a lot of those done. Is this a process or is there any sort of strategic plan as to where those are done? I mean, it seems to be kind of haphazardly. I've actually got one corner where three of the corners are done and the fourth one is not and I can't seem to get an answer to that. I actually have a question -- can you give me some specifics on the targeted assistance program, on employment related social services. And if you can, maybe you're not the appropriate person to answer that. Do we have a similar initiative for people who happen to have been born in the City of Philadelphia?

Mr. Martz

I'll actually bring the director of the program up to speak about that. 651 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Clarke

Okay.

Mr. Martz

Should I start with number one or do you want to --

Councilman Clarke

It's up to you, sir.

Mr. Martz

We are in actually Stage now, so the goal is to move into Stage as soon as we complete Stage 3 of Operation Sunrise. And the Mayor has also charged us with the responsibility of looking to ways to expand the program, so we're in discussion. If I wasn't in the midst of a couple of snowfalls and then the incident last week, I might have been able to answer that question a little bit better, but one of the charges is to try to find a way of expanding the overall Operation Sunrise program. So you and I will have to talk a little bit more about the problem separately.

Councilman Clarke

Before you go to the next one, with respect to that, because what's going to end up happening is they're going to run them over to Councilwoman Miller's district. Have you gotten a sense of a pattern developing as a result of the 1, 2, 3 stages whereas possibly you 652 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 can be in a position to deal with those individuals before they actually get there so when you go Stage 4 you'll have a sense of we are they're going to go based on three prior stages and essentially be there to shut down shop before they open it up?

Mr. Martz

Let me just stop right now because somebody got up and sat back down back there, so I'm going to ask Commissioner Johnson to come on up here. You can't hide from me Commissioner. We're going to ask you to answer that question.

Mr. Martz

Let me just real quickly while we're waiting talk about the handicapped ramps. My understanding was that we actually had completed the ramp program. There were only, I thought, a few left around the City that require some special care. But if you have a specific ramp, we came up with a program for replacing all the ramps. I believe the City of Philadelphia's done actually an excellent job of handicapped ramps around the City.

Councilman Clarke

By and large.

Mr. Martz

But if you have some 653 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 specifics that, for whatever reason, weren't completed, please, just provide them to us and I'll have Debbie Russo look into it right away for you, okay?

Councilman Clarke

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Good afternoon.

Mr. Johnson

Deputy Commissioner Johnson, Operation Philadelphia Police. With Operation Sunrise, there were four phases. Phase 1 we began in March of 1998 -- well, in June of 1998. We stayed in that phase and it was from Trenton over to Kensington Avenue for approximately seven weeks, and we stayed there until we felt as though that the neighborhood was stabilized, not by the amount of arrests we made but whether the neighborhood was stable. Stabilization meant to us is that kids can come out and play, their parents can come out and do things. The reason we went there first was because we have more community involvement at that particular location. We left there in August to Phase 2. We stayed in Phase 2 for approximately seven months, and we felt that was stabilized. We 654 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 left there, I'm not sure exactly, but I think it was August. We've been in Phase 3 for a little over to close to a year right now. We feel at this point that it's not stabilized. And one of the good things about Operation Sunrise, at least in my opinion, that there was no time limit, we would stay there as long as it possibly could take. As we went from east to west, the drugs were more intense and they're fighting back. But one of the main things also is that in the Operation Sunrise area between January of 1998 until the present, the homicides rate went down 42 percent. We will probably move into Phase 4, although we have people in Phase 4 at this point still making those kinds of arrests even though we're not in that whole phase right there. There's still narcotics people there working along with the District Attorney's Office, working along with the DEA, working along with the FBI. So I guess maybe in approximately three or four weeks when we feel as though it's time to move on, we will move into Phase 4. But as we go into Phase 4, we may be there well over a year, a year and a half because the drugs are so intense there. So, 655 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 again, I'm not sure how long it's going to take, but it's the commitment to the City government and to the Police Commissioner that we will stay there as long as it will possibly take to stabilize this area. At this point, just in the Sunrise area we've made approximately -- just the Narcotics Bureau alone has made approximately 8,000 arrests. We don't go by the amount of arrests we've made not because it's not really that important at this point, but we also taken down something like that 17, major organizations which is our main goal 13 right now. The Narcotics Bureau is now going 14 after organizations which we didn't do in the 15 past. Between 1992 and 1998 we made 54,000 drug 16 arrests in the City of Philadelphia. And as our 17 arrest rate went up, our crime rate went up 18 because I think we were locking up the wrong people. Not so much the wrong people, we were locking up the sellers. That is no longer the case; we're going after organizations. So again, question is how long we will in Operation Sunrise, we will be there for a while. The other thing, we have a plan and 656 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 can't fragment that plan. If we fragment that plan, it starts taking over the whole city we're going to lose it. But what the commissioner did approximately a month, a month and a half ago, we sent or 34 more people to narcotics, so we now 7 have narcotics traveling team. They go to certain 8 areas of the City as a group. So in addition to 9 the people in the Sunrise area, we now have a 10 narcotics strike force that now travel through all 11 parts of the City. 12

Councilman Clarke

Deputy, thank you. 13 I hear what you're saying about having a plan, but 14 the reality is that people in a particularly area 15 of my district have been suffering as a result of 16 that plan. I call it the 37th Ward. I don't know 17 in the police terms. I've got to get those people 18 some relief and I can't just tell them that 19 there's a plan and you can't deviate from that. I 20 mean, earlier on when we talked about Partners for 21 Progress part of it, I was told that Partners for 22 Progress would still be available to put out those 23 hot spots. I found that not to be true. And 24 essentially, the bulk of Sunrise was going to stay 25 in those particular locations and those various 657 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 stages. Right now in Stage the last year and a half now, those people are crying out for help and I can't just go back to them and tell them, well, they may have to wait another year because you have a specific plan in place. And I'm not asking you to divulge the strategy as it relates to how you can deal with that issue about people moving, nor would you want to give me that response. My question was is there a pattern developing that you see these people moving in a particular way that will now give you a clear sense of how you need to address the outlying areas? I know you can't answer that because if you give that, somebody hear it and the criminals will just adjust their thinking.

Mr. Johnson

I don't have a problem answering it because we were actually in Phase 4. We have our undercover people in Phase 4 and we have our strike force in Phase 4. Phase 4 is from Fifth Street over to Germantown Avenue after we've gone over to Broad Street. We also extended to Tioga Avenue. So this summer, we went to Phase 4 full-time for approximately two months when they took down the houses on the 3000 block of, I 658 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 think, Ninth Street and another area. The whole Operation of Sunrise went into Phase for 4 approximately two months until we felt as though that we made some significant progress there. When I say that Sunrise is in one particular area, it does not mean that there's no 8 other narcotics people working in Phase 4 because they are. There's undercover people working there, there's uniformed people working there, there's strike force people working there, but the main focus of Sunrise is still in that area. But in all parts of City we have narcotics people. We went from -- 1997 we had approximately 200 people in narcotics. Today we have 440 people assigned to the Narcotics Bureau. In addition to that, prior to this administration because of the 39th district scandal, the District was not allowed to be involved in narcotics, but that is no longer the case. Under Commissioner Timoney, every single district in the City now has a narcotic enforcement team, a net team, which consists of a sergeant six officers. So they can respond to street-corner drug sales, which if you add that to 23 districts, that's an additional 136 people that 659 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 are involved in narcotics enforcement that wasn't involved before. Although they're assigned to the net team, they still handle the robberies, the burglaries, the thefts and other crime. But if get call in particular districts about a narcotics problem on the corner, they can respond to that. The main focus of the Narcotics Bureau at this point is going after the organization. In addition to that, for the first time approximately 30 people detectives assigned to the Narcotics Bureau and every persona arrested debriefed. During those debriefings, we get a lot information, not just on drugs, but on robberies, on burglaries, on homicides. What I can tell you, Mr. Clarke, is that the area of Phase 4 is not being neglected. Except the drugs are so intense there and it's going to take a period of time for us to go there. And the other thing is that we finally decided or realized at least in the last couple years that we will never do it by ourself. The committee has been very supportive of us. Other parts of City has been very supportive of us. When Partners in Progress did moved on to Phase 4, we went over 660 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 there to help them and to assist them and we stayed there for approximately two months, but they're not being neglected.

Councilman Clarke

Okay, all right.

Mr. Martz

Councilman, I just want to add about the Partners program, We do -- Operation Sunrise has really dominated a lot of resources of Partners for Progress program to the point where we're really down to two days a week doing the Partners program. If you do have hot spots, I'd be interested in knowing what they are. And one of the things, I believe, about mayor's Blight Initiative is that it's going to give us an opportunity to decide what additional resources we might need to expands the overall notion of Partners for Progress. Do we need more people? Maybe I need to dedicate resources five a week strictly to Operation Sunrise and I still need a whole 'nother group of people to just do Partners for Progress. So in the last six weeks those are some of the discussions that are going on inside of our office right now.

Councilman Clarke

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Martz

Actually, I have Executive 661 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Director of the Targeted Assistance Program right now, Councilman, for your third question, okay?

Ms. Wolf

Good afternoon. My name is Donna Wolf and I'm the Director of Targeted Assistance Program. Your question, Councilman, pretty much related to whether or not the refugees received services?

Councilman Clarke

The first part is, what specifically is that program? And second part is, do we have a similar program for people who are born in the City of Philadelphia?

Ms. Wolf

The Targeted Assistance Program is a hundred percent federally funded --

Council President Verna

I'm sorry, we can't hear you.

Ms. Wolf

The Targeted Assistance Program is a hundred percent federally funded program to supply support services specifically in employment to persons who have been resettled here through State Department activities, a recipient arm of the State Department. And the Targeted Assistance Program works primarily with individuals in the employment setting who are on public assistance, and we work as a 662 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 welfare-to-work component almost in the same fashion to get people employed as quickly as possible so that they don't maintain long-term assistance. And actually, we'd be a very small subset of welfare-to-work which is a large amount of grants are going into at this point in time for other than refugee populations. The particular program component that we work with is the public safety and we supply some small amount of funds to a variety of refugee community groups themselves to form and join in with regular Town Watch activities. So there's actually nothing special that's offered. It's something that actually -- our goal is always to get people mainstreamed into their communities.

Councilman Clarke

So those individuals have to be on welfare to participate?

Ms. Wolf

The employment, for the most part, yeah. And for the wider community activity of funding the small Town Watch activities, no. 22 We like to improve relations between neighbors in the City neighborhoods so...

Councilman Clarke

Okay, thank you.

Council President Verna

Councilman, 663 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 are you finished?

Councilman Clarke

Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you, Madam Chair. Joe, congratulations.

Mr. Martz

Thanks Councilman.

Councilman Ortiz

And Estelle, congratulations on your positions and nice to see all old friends and old faces back again. Just for the record, I really would like you and Estelle to explain structure of the MDO and what her function is, your function, Estelle, in terms of social service secretary and how that is going to work and. . .

Council President Verna

Councilman, I think that Mr. Martz did indicate that and I have asked him to send us an organizational chart so that we would be able to have that in our offices for future reference.

Councilman Ortiz

Very good. Well, if that's been asked, that's fine. But I really -- and individuals within your departments that are going to be very pertinent for us to be 664 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 contacting, so that we know who to call.

Mr. Martz

I'm going to just say because you know what the responsibility of the Managing Director is, so why don't I just let Estelle talk a little bit about what her role is going to be as one of the three chief deputies in the department.

Council President Verna

But you are going to send us an organizational chart?

Mr. Martz

I absolutely am.

Ms. Richman

Part of what I'm trying to do is begin to coordinate and integrate those areas of social services that have traditionally fallen within the Managing Director's Office. I think they've been listed, but let me review them real quickly: The Department of Health, the Department of Human Services, Recreation, the Office of Emergency Shelter, Prisons, the Anti-graffiti Network, and the Mayor's Office on Community Services. All of these offices share a lot of initiatives together. Previously they have worked very independently in terms even though there's been major overlap in what their goals and missions have been. Part of what we're looking at 665 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 now is to identify those policy and planning-related ideas and begin to coordinate them both from budget perspective, quality management, and any activity that pertains to how the operations part works and how the policy and planning pieces work. For example, one of the first initiatives we're working on is the after-school program in the Office of Child Care. One of the people that will be working within the Managing Director's Office and reporting directly to me is a child policy person to begin to look at policy as it overlaps the seven departments.

Councilman Ortiz

Has that person been hired or designated?

Ms. Richman

That person has been identified but has not started as of this point. My hope is that they will start sometime this mid-March. We'll also be looking at budgets for all of these departments. There's a great deal of overlap, and I think intuitively we've known that, but we've done little to use that knowledge to direct, to drive operations and to drive policy. 666 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 One of the ones I think Dianne Granlund referred to a lot. There's an awful lot of overlap between the activities within our drug and alcohol program and the prisons. We have a lot drug and alcohol programs behind the walls within the prison and after-care when people leave. We need to ascertain whether these programs work. Are we putting a lot of money into programs that are giving us a little return and what else can we do to make sure we're, quote, getting money's worth for what doing.

Councilman Ortiz

Will the after-school programs be centralized in one area then from all the different departments?

Ms. Richman

Their policy and their operations and quality of management will be centralized, but the programs may not be all in Recreation Department. Some may be in Recreation, some may be in the Department of Human Services, some are some are already existing in the libraries, some may be in the Mural Arts Programs. What we're after is making sure we understand the policy that's driving it, we're getting what we're paying for, and we're and able to track and 667 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 demonstrate that.

Councilman Ortiz

So these departments will report to you?

Councilman Ortiz

And you report to Joe, and that's the way it works?

Ms. Richman

That's the way it works.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Your welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Krajewski.

Councilwoman Krajewski

Actually, my questions will be for Dianne Granlund. I also want to compliment the Managing Director and congratulate Estelle for their positions.

Ms. Richman

Thank you.

Mr. Martz

Thank you, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Krajewski

I received many calls from my constituents saying what an excellent job the City did on the snow removal.

Mr. Martz

Thank you, Councilwoman. That means a lot.. 668 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Krajewski

My question to you is, put it in way, when someone is put out on bail and cannot afford the bail and they're sent to prison, I understand -- I don't know how true it is but I'm being told -- they are released without paying that bail. Is that true?

Ms. Granlund

Well, there is several answers to that question. If they don't make bail initially and are incarcerated pretrial, they are looked at again by the court system, by Pretrial Services. They may be allowed to sign their own bail with certain restrictions, and there are various levels of restrictions including active electronic monitoring. If they don't get released at that point, they would be reviewed again by my office, and if eligible, be put on a special release list where, again, they don't have to post the money, they are permitted to do sign their own bail but restrictions, again, are put on them and they are supervised by pretrial services. And then the Jackson Court, the state action on prison conditions, Jackson versus Hendrick, they have their own review process and they review more 669 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 serious offenders than my office reviews. And again, the same kind of review goes on.

Councilwoman Krajewski

I'm being told the ones that are not paying their bail, that they're free to go out and commit the same crime again.

Ms. Granlund

In terms of my own program, if they have been released through special release and they go and they commit another crime, they are not looked at again. Now I cannot speak, obviously, for what the court system does.

Councilwoman Krajewski

How do choose which ones would be permitted to --

Ms. Granlund

In cooperation with the First Judicial District and the District Attorney's Office and other court agencies, over a period of several months we develop the criteria that would be acceptable for people to be considered for special release. These are non-violent offenders.

Councilwoman Krajewski

What is that criteria?

Ms. Granlund

Well, among other 670 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 things, they are nonviolent, which means they may have a simple possession or a simple assault as opposed to an aggravated assault.

Councilwoman Krajewski

To rob the place.

Ms. Granlund

No, they're not going to rob.

Councilwoman Krajewski

Usually when they're put on bail, it's for a reason.

Ms. Granlund

Oh, absolutely. We look at people who may have had bail put on them but who under ordinance circumstances would fall within non-bail guidelines and for some reason the trial commissioner maybe doesn't have enough information and has a bad feeling about the guy and says, "I think I'll put bail on you."

Councilwoman Krajewski

Would you mind submitting that to our Council President?

Ms. Granlund

You want the criteria?

Councilwoman Krajewski

Yes.

Ms. Granlund

For my program?

Councilwoman Krajewski

Yes.

Ms. Granlund

I'd be glad to.

Councilwoman Krajewski

Madam Chair. 671 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

Thank you.

Councilwoman Krajewski

Also I have one more question. Is it true that the only ones eligible for the drug treatment program are the drug dealers?

Ms. Granlund

No, no. When we evaluate people, they have to be a user. They play deal to support their habit, but they are not major players.

Councilwoman Krajewski

Accused of selling drugs.

Ms. Granlund

To support your own habit.

Councilwoman Krajewski

Is it true? The ones who are selling drugs get that treatment?

Ms. Granlund

Only if they're users as well as sellers. In other words, if they're just selling without being a user, they stay in jail. I don't deal with sellers. Not unless they're using, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Krajewski

How about the buyers?

Ms. Granlund

They're users. They're eligible for the programs. Again, they have to be 672 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 evaluated. They have to be motivated, they have to be evaluated clinically.

Councilwoman Krajewski

All right, thank you.

Ms. Granlund

You're welcome.

Councilwoman Krajewski

I appreciate it.

Council President Verna

Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

On top of Councilwoman Krajewski's request for information, I want to know if information is available that any prisoner that was released against the recommendations of the Bail Commission -- the Bail Commissioner makes a recommendation on a prisoner, a prisoner can't make bail, they go through a process, ultimately wind up in your office for review, non-violent offender. Of those offenders, how many were rearrested again on a another charge, a separate charge, within 30 days of your office's decision to release that individual? What I get is anecdotal information from the Bail Commissioner that says when a prisoner is rearrested and comes before them again, the bail 673 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 commissioner says, "I remember you. I just put, you know, $50,000 bail on you. How did you get out. Who paid your bail?" The common phrase is "God paid my bail." I don't know if "God" is referring to you or your office. The question I have is we all make mistakes and decisions analysis based on the prison cap and other things that force us into these positions that none of us want to make, but of those people you say "that's a good shot, let's give them a chance," restrictions, how many within 30 days are rearrested?

Ms. Granlund

Let me clarify the record. First of all, if a defendant has $50,000 set bail accused of something, I won't even look at,, that's number one. Number two, I don't make this decision unilaterally. This is done in a setting where there is a trial commissioners who out ranks bail commissions. The District Attorney sends a representative, the court system from pretrial from adult probation and parole, the prison system is present, the Public Defender is present. All we do is present people who are eligible under the 674 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 guidelines. I don't make the decision to release these people; I'm not a judicial officer. A judicial makes that decision.

Councilman Kenney

Who is that?

Ms. Granlund

A trial commissioner. Either the Municipal Court or Court of Common Pleas, depending upon the week.

Councilman Kenney

The request I have is of those people who have worked their way through that system wind up being presented to the appropriate judicial official and then are released against the recommendations of the bail commissioner --

Ms. Granlund

This is not really an appeal process. Understand that the Trial Commission are outranks the Bail Commissioner.

Councilman Kenney

But in effect it is an appeal of the bail that was set by the Bail Commissioner based on circumstances in the prison system and what is presented to the Trial Commissioner.

Ms. Granlund

No, it's a review that's based upon the criteria which I'm going to supply for Councilwoman Krajewski. That's all it is. A 675 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 lot of these people do not get released upon presentation.

Councilman Kenney

My addendum to her request is of the people who make it through and get released as a result of this process, how many within 30 days have been rearrested on other charges?

Ms. Granlund

I will get that information.

Councilman Kenney

Thanks.

Ms. Granlund

That's not a problem.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you, Madam President. Just a minute. I have several questions, but in the interest of time, I won't ask them of this department, but of those departments as they come forward. But there are a couple things I do want to talk about now. In the KIDS Initiative, what are the plans for children between the ages of 14 and 18 that really won't be going to a traditional after-school program? We were wondering if those 676 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 activities were going to include maybe as a volunteer or paid tutor or some type of after-school work or just what?

Ms. Richman

One of the reasons that we're trying to look at this as an integrated exercise now as opposed to just putting money in a couple departments, is to actually put forth a plan to look for after-school activities, not programs necessarily, for all children including that to 18-year-old group who may not -- for 12 whom some youngsters just aren't going to go to 13 the library or to a recreation center for baseball 14 or basketball, they're going to need and want something different. One of the reasons for beginning to look at this as a system as opposed to just on a single department was so we could begin to brainstorm and plan for the full battery of youngsters who may need this level of support as opposed to just some. We are preparing also to look at summer camp first, since that's fast-approaching us. But we also want to put together a comprehensive plan. We haven't done this before. We will try to make it as inclusive as possible in bringing people both from the 677 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 neighborhood, hopefully representatives of Council and other people who are involved and know children as well as members of this Administration who will be working with me.

Councilwoman Miller

Right, because I think I have some ideas particularly for that teenage group.

Ms. Richman

I will be glad to talk to you about that.

Councilwoman Miller

The other question I have is regarding prisons. Dianne, I didn't get Diane's last name.

Ms. Granlund

Granlund.

Councilwoman Miller

On my way home from work yesterday, I was really distressed to hear that a 12-year-old was certified as an adult. And immediately what comes to mind, and I'd also received some correspondence in my office maybe a few weeks ago regarding the other 11-year-old who is now housed in a Philadelphia prison, and I wanted to know what is it going to be like or what is it like particularly for the 11-year-old? I heard she's in the infirmary, she's housed in the infirmary. I guess I just wanted some data right 678 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 now, some preliminary data on how many young people are certified as adults that we have right now in the Philadelphia prison? When I say right now, I don't mean you have to give the numbers right this minute, but -- well, the Prisons come up today. I forgot. But anyway, before it's all over. And what are they charged with? Just emotionally I believe that 12- and 11-year-old children incarcerated in these prisons, they won't get the nurturing, the hands-on touch. They will become -- I believe the correctional officers will now become their parents, you know, their mother and father, and I just --

Ms. Richman

Councilwoman, I've particularly looked into the 12-year-old that we've had there the last several months and was informed by the Prison Commissioner today that the second 12-year-old will be in a room next door to hers. But the circumstances surrounding both of both of these and the support and mental health services they need is significant. We're trying to provide that support to the prison system. We would prefer not having 12-year-olds within an adult prison in somewhat of isolation because they 679 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 are housed separately and apart. So this is one of the activities that I will be looking in. Again, it's an integrative activity. How do we begin to work with these youngsters around all of their issues that cause them to be in this circumstance, and would be glad to get the rest of that information to you regarding the details.

Councilwoman Miller

Thank you. One last thing, will the Partners for Progress Program continue and Operation Sunrise continue as separate from the blight elimination or will they all just be combined?

Mr. Martz

That's part of the greater discussion going on right now and whether or not it makes more sense to combine them. Right now they operating independently or they're working cooperatively with. Partners works cooperatively with Operation Sunrise, but it still is stand-alone operation. Should we continue to let it stand alone? Should it be part of the Blight Initiative? Should we expand Partners? I mean, all of those discussions are now taking place. It's probably going to be a little bit of time before we work it all out. 680 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Miller

All right, thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

In your organizational chart, I know you're going to give it to you us, but you have Commissioner Richman -- is it commissioner or secretary now?

Ms. Richman

Director.

Ms. Richman

Sometimes I'm not sure.

Councilwoman Tasco

Will there be other directors over the City service and a director for the --

Mr. Martz

Public Services. That's the plan.

Councilwoman Tasco

They have not been --

Mr. Martz

They have not been selected yet by the Mayor.

Councilwoman Tasco

All right. Do you anticipate savings to the City by the combination of these different duties and responsibilities? 681 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Martz

I'm not sure we'll anticipate savings, but we anticipate better coordination of activities.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay. So, now, how will we interface with -- if I want something from the Health Department, Social Services Department, can I just go directly to those commissioners or should I deal with my commissioner there at the table, my director?

Ms. Richman

As we begin to reorganize ourselves, if the issue around policy, budget, or planning, I would appreciate it if you will call me. If it's an operational issue directly, I think you should call the commissioner.

Councilwoman Tasco

Now, Mr. Martz, I wanted to say this to you: I have a letter here from some of my neighbors up near Cedarbrook and Durham who sent a letter to the Streets Department thanking them, the first time they had ever seen a snowplow on their block. (Laughter.)

Councilwoman Tasco

Since we're up in the Northwest section of Philadelphia are considered part of the Montgomery County when it 682 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 comes to snow because we get the northwest snow and we really have a lot of snow and the snow was there until the rain came. You wouldn't believe you were in Philadelphia. So we did get a few complaints along my commercial corridor, Wadworth and Ogontz Avenue, not a lot, didn't get a lot of complains. I wanted to let you know we did get a thank you letter.

Mr. Martz

That's great.

Councilwoman Tasco

Overall we were able to move, but when we get large snow storms like that, just think of us as being in Montgomery County, we need a little extra support up there so we can get out and we have a lot of small streets and even some of our large streets could have been done a little better.

Councilwoman Tasco

But overall it was pretty good.

Mr. Martz

Thank you.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you. I can't find my notes. I think some of questions I had have been answered, particularly about Partners for Progress. Does that 683 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 department, the services from the Partners for Progress targeted for certain sections of the City or can that program or is that program administered or provided to all of the neighborhoods in Philadelphia?

Mr. Martz

Right now we've basically targeted Operation Sunrise as the primary area that we've been using Partners to go out and deal with individual issues. So yeah, we're not targeting the way we had in one census track like we did in the beginning. What we'll do is if need us for a few days in a certain area, we'll go over for a few days over there. What I've asked our people to do is to get back into a more traditional line like we had in the beginning. What resources do you need to put Partners back on the map as a full-time operation instead of to part-time operations essentially?

Councilwoman Tasco

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Do you plan to deploy the Anti-graffiti Program on a constant basis throughout the commercial strips? I notice that, you know, you wept through Broad Street from the stadium to Cheltenham and removed the graffiti, which really mad a difference. 684 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Martz

I won't speak for Tom. I think he's actually here.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay, I'll wait until he comes then. Thank you very much.

Mr. Martz

Just so you know, with the cold weather sometimes our ability to do some of the removal using high pressure water is reduced because we just can't get out there as much in the really cold weather.

Councilwoman Tasco

Sure. Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Mr. Martz.

Mr. Martz

Councilman.

Councilman Nutter

And Director of Social Services Richman. Mr. Martz I have one question which revolves around the fence issue. First, let me say there's a young lady behind the rail who probably should get hazardous duty pay for the number of phone calls that she gets from me regarding fence requests, and I believe that 685 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Frankie Hughes would probably go to a supply house and get some cyclone fence just to get me to leave her alone with regard to those particular requests. (Laughter.)

Councilman Nutter

But a situation seems to have arisen somewhere toward the tail-end of last year with regards to some funding issues and just kind of the state of the fence program, and I'd like to get a sense from you of where things are with regard to fence requests. As best I've been able to figure out, it seems to be pretty much lodged in the Managing Director's Office as oppose to over at L&I. Can you tell me what the status of the program is?

Mr. Martz

Unfortunately, I can't tell you exactly how many outstanding requests we have for fencing right now. I'll have to get back to you privately or share it with the Council President.

Councilman Nutter

I wasn't necessarily asking how many outstanding requests we have, but your response may be an indication of -- is there activity going on? I mean, are we 686 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 doing fences presently?

Mr. Martz

I can't answer that question right now, Councilman. I wish I could. In the grander scheme, I do think that it is part of the overall Blight Program that we're talking about. Some aspect of the money in each community is going to be spent the way the people in that community want to spend the money. If that means more use of lot fencing, then we're going to do just that.

Councilman Nutter

All right. For the moment, I'll just kind of deal with that. On the other hand, I mean, we won't be able to do blight removal or fences or whatever is going to come out of the program everywhere all at one time. There are people who are dealing with real-live situations where we have come in at the neighbors' request, at the community's request, and removed an abandoned building that was presenting a danger that it might collapse, which is great. We take the building down, we stucco the side wall or walls, and then we leave, which then leaves that neighbor with a new problem which is in addition to the fact that the druggies and the crazies and 687 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 all the other knuckleheads that were breaking into the house and causing the problem, and maybe burn it down because, you know, their crack wasn't right or whatever their problem was, we dealt with that. Now all they do is congregate in the new side yard that we provided for them and have access to the back of the person's house. They are now completely unprotected, whereas the building provided some level of protection, although people were breaking into it, now they have a new problem. What we basically tell them today is, we took the abandoned building down and it won't fall on you, but if people want to be in your backyard, that's your problem. I mean, I can't necessarily wait until, you know, kind of the next program comes on line for those folks. I mean, it's a very serious issue.

Mr. Martz

I understand.

Councilman Nutter

We had a fence program and until we know what the next program is going to be, I'd like to see if we could have some dollars made available in the course of this fiscal year that would allow us to do some work.

Mr. Martz

Yes, I understand what you 688 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 mean, and I will look into it.

Council President Verna

Mr. Martz would you let us know what the policy is going to be between now and the Blight Program being implemented, please?

Mr. Martz

I will, Madam President.

Council President Verna

So that we could all send you our lists. (Laughter.)

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. First, let me join my colleagues in saying hats off to you. Your sense of commitment resonates. So I'm excited that I come at a time when departments are talking to each other and children and youth are up on the radar screen in a real tangible way with teeth in it in terms of coordination of budget and programs. As you move to shaping this comprehensive child policy for our 689 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 City, please remember the public schools. And I know that that's another big elephant, but those two worlds are very much alike in terms of constituency so at some juncture, they need to be a part of that overall agenda.

Ms. Richman

Secretary Kahn and I plan to work together and have already begun to plan jointly begin to talk about the after-school programs in the Office of Child Care, so we will be working closely together.

Councilwoman Brown

Very well. The after-school programs becomes a real close opportunity for that. And I, too, will look forward to the KIDS information that you'll be sending to the Chair as well as the table of organization to see where there might be a relationship between KIDS and the Office of Child Care as well. -46 of the budget, I notice that there's a federal grant of $50,000 for the child advocacy project and it says that the grant will provide counseling services to the families of homicide victims. Just brief us on that, if you would. First of all, is that new, is that a. . . 690 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Ms. Richman

I don't know a lot about that program at this point, but I will be able to get you some information on it and we will make sure we can complete that.

Councilwoman Brown

Terrific. Town Watch. My experience is that Town Watch works and, of course, I looked at that budget item, too, to see if there was a decrease or not. There was not a decrease, that's the good news. The funding level is stable. And so, we know that they work. What have you considered -- there's some public schools that have active safe corridor programs. And again, in an attempt to ensure that the different worlds are talking to each other as it relates to kids, if you haven't, consider thinking through how the safe corridors programs that are currently in place at some of our public schools can become a part of an extension of the Town Watch programs.

Mr. Martz

We'll do that.

Councilwoman Brown

The other question's regarding --

Mr. Martz

Councilwoman, Anthony just informed me that they actually have been meeting 691 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 about extending the Town Watch program to the safe corridor program.

Councilwoman Brown

Wonderful. So at some juncture we'll get some feedback on how that's coming along. Very well. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Councilman Goode, would you mind putting Councilman Ortiz's light off, please. I don't believe he's in the room, and it's very distracting. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)

Council President Verna

Thank you very much.

Mr. Martz

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

And again, thank you for your patience. The next department to be called is the Police Department. (Police Department witnesses come forward.) 692 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

Good afternoon, gentlemen. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Good afternoon, Council President Verna and members of the City Council. I am John F. Timoney, Police Commissioner. With me today --

Council President Verna

Excuse me, Commissioner. I think you deserve a little more respect than that. Excuse me, the people in the back of the room that having a conversation, please do so in the corridor. Thank you. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Thank you, Madam Chair. With me today is the First Deputy Commissioner, Sylvester Johnson, and sitting next to me is Deputy Commissioner Nestel, also in the audience is Deputy Commissioner Brown and Deputy Commissioner Norris and some other staff members who will be available for any questions that I can't answer. 4 million. 6 million more than 693 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 the estimated obligation in FY 2000. 8 million; and 5 million in additional personnel and equipment costs associated with the RNC Convention coming up. The General Fund request will provide 6,903 uniformed officers, including three classes of 120 recruits each, 974 civilians, 1,000 school crossing guards. Another 113 officers are assigned to the airport, which brings our total sworn personnel to 7,016, the highest number of police officers in over 12 years. 4 percent. However, these budgets increases have allowed our department to embark on and sustain some significant changes to its exists operations. 694 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 I'm happy to report the changes that we have implemented so far over the past few years have begun to have a real impact. Since 1997, homicides have decreased by nearly 30 percent to lowest level in years. The number of arrests 7 have increased by 20 percent, and the number of 8 narcotics arrests have doubled. 9 The department's FY 2000 General Fund 10 budge request is sufficient to continue the of the 11 department's ongoing program as well as provide 12 for new equipment purchases and launch new 13 programs. The focus the department in FY 2001 14 will continue to include strong emphasis on 15 narcotics enforcements gun control. In addition, the budget will allow the department to begin building the Police Integrated Information Network, which is a computer system that will automate incident reporting processes and all internal affairs investigations. The department is also working with the Managing Director's Office and Licenses and Inspections to increase the number of abandon vehicles towed each year. As I said before, we have made significant progress in the last two years and 695 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 particularly in the last year. Homicides decreased for a second year. Last year they were down by appears from 338 to 296. 5 The arrest activity, as I say, is up 6 over 20 percent over the last two years, 3 percent 7 last year up to a total of 77,000-plus. Our 8 narcotics arrests over the last two years rose 9 from a little over 10,000; 10,500 to over 22,000 10 in 1999. 11 The operation Sunrise which was 12 referenced earlier has resulted in confiscation of 13 $6 million worth of drugs, almost 1 million in 14 cash which was confiscated and the arrest and seizure of 234 firearms. Additionally, last year we began Operation Ceasefire, which is a joint effort between our department, the Federal Attorney, the DA, and the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms where we target folks arrested for gun possession and some other felony charge target and we target them for federal prosecution. We did 66 of those cases in 1998. Last year we went up to 231. We've also establish a gun tracking and permit unit which is now supervised by a captain 696 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 in headquarters where we take much more aggressive approach to revoking gun permits for those who are engaged in criminal activity. And so for example, last year we revoked the gun permits of 303 individuals, which was a 49 percent increase over 1998. S. Marshall's Task Force. Just in the last 11 months of that warrant unit being in effect, we have arrested and brought back to justice slightly under 1,000 people who had absconded from justice.

Council President Verna

We have reorganized the special victims unit which I know has gotten quite a bit coverage in the press over last six months, and I'm sure there will be some questions on that. The abandoned vehicles is an issue that comes up all the time. It's something that under the Street administration working with the Managing Director's office and Licenses and Inspections, the Mayor soon wil announce and all-encompassing plan. Nonetheless, even last year with a renewed emphasis, we increased our 697 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 tows of abandoned vehicles by some 14,000, from 22,000 in 1998 to above 35,000 last year. We're also in planning stages for the last six months for Republican National Convention which is coming into town in late July, early August. This department took a very proactive stance on the issue of racial profiling which is an issue that has come across the American law enforcement landscape, and I'm proud to say we have been one of the leaders in facing up to the issue the racial paroling, putting into place systems that mitigate against it, recognizing that race is an issue in policing, creating additional training and creating a training video for every police officer in this department. That video and the corresponding protocols have been requested by over two dozen police departments across the country. And just last week at another conference of legislative chiefs, there were some additional requests and a great deal of talk on this whole issue. Our training at the academy has been completely overhauled and enhanced and the 698 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 training has been expanded from five months to just under nine months now. The total hours went from 449 hours to over 1,050. We are as much as possible utilizing technology in a whole variety of ways, including enhanced 911 system, our crime mapping system, and our on-line complaint system and a whole bunch of other systems to get more timely accurate information that helps us in our fight on crime. The Police Aviation Unit which, quite frankly, I was not necessarily a big fan of coming into Philadelphia, I've become a huge fan because we've used them much more effectively in operational, whether it's assisting in making arrests or in reducing the need for police vehicles to engage in high-speed pursuits. The Aviation Unit has performed tremendously over the last year and a half. We've also embarked upon an enhanced upgrading of police facilities, along with developing with the Managing Director's Office and Property Division the first of a nationally accredited forensic laboratory which should be in about two years up and running. 699 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 There's a whole host of other programs which I'm sure we'll get into during questioning, such as our anti-truancy unit, the videotaping of homicides cases now, and a whole host of changes in protocols regarding our integrity unit within the department. The internal affairs unit has been completely reorganized under a deputy commissioner now reporting directly to me, Deputy Commissioner Norris. We have the Quality Assurance Bureau set up, we have the Integrity Control Unit which goes out and make sure that officers doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. So overall last year, I think, was a modified success. There's still an awful lot of work to be done, but we think with the leadership of the Street administration, the Mayor's hands-on approach to the issues of policing and crime and quality of life, I think this year will leave me better than has year. And so I'm looking forward to this year great expectations, great hope. We will raise the bar some more, and I think come this time next year we'll have even better results. 700 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Again, Madam Chair, I want to thank you for the opportunity coming before your committee, and I'm available for any questions you may have.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Commissioner. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

You're welcome.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, I have a few questions that I'm going to just ask you one in this go-around, and it has to do with the convention. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, sir.

Councilman Rizzo

Are you prepared to deal with this with the number of police officers that you have? Is there going to be a big impact on your personnel, vacation cancellations and things like that to deal with this? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: We have a sufficient force to deal with this convention. But clearly, since it happens summertime at the height of vacation, that brings other things into play. As you are well aware, there is $5 million 701 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 additional in the budget to help pay for police overtime in the event that we have to cancel, and we will, cancel some vacations. We want to make sure that we're able to police this event without draining officers from the local districts out in the neighborhoods, and that's the intent. And so we've got some great people under Commissioner Mitchell running the event. The planning -- it's been in planning already well over six months. Quite frankly, the issues raised in Seattle creates for us a whole host of other problems, and I met with the folks from Seattle just last week. I'm going down to Washington at the end of this month for another briefing. Commissioner Mitchell has been in contact with those folks in Seattle. And there are some lessons that can be learned from Seattle that will help us as we move forward dealing with demonstrators at the convention.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, you just said that there may be a need to cancel vacations. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Mm-hmm.

Councilman Rizzo

Could that decision be made as early as possible to the degree that 702 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 that will affect your people that are making summer plans, that deposits for a week here, a week there? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Sure.

Councilman Rizzo

Could that decision be made, because I'm already talking to some officers that are a little concerned about what your plans are and they haven't really heard anything. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah, as soon as I can safely make that, we'll do it and we will work -- obviously, we'll work outwards beginning with patrol and then out to specialized units.

Councilman Rizzo

Just another for this round of questions. It's in reference to the Police Canine Unit. You've asked for $21 million more in the budget, and I would hope at this point we could at this point be beyond where we have to ask people to donate dogs to the Canine Unit. What's happening, Commissioner, we're getting dogs donated to the Canine Unit that are not meant to be police dogs. They spend two, three weeks at the academy, they wash them out, we spend a lot of time in men and women hours to train these dogs 703 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 and they wash out and they have to be returned. Don't you think in this big budget that we could find the money to purchase a dog that's bred to be a police dog that has a guarantee if doesn't work be returned to the handler or to the breeder and replaced with another dog because from what I'm hearing, we're spending a tremendous amount of money training dogs that never make it. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, you know, in large bureaucracies there's always the issue of getting the cart ahead of the horse. In this case it was the dogs ahead of the police commissioner because when I read that in the paper, it was the first I read about it and I'm not too happy. So we'll address that issue.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Commissioner.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Councilman Rizzo. Councilman Ortiz.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Certainly.

Councilman Ortiz

Commissioner. 704 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, sir?

Councilman Ortiz

Let's begin with Operation Sunrise and some data. I know that there have been a lot of arrests, but the issue is, is it safer? Is the area safer today than it was -- the old Reagan question: Is it safer today than it was three years ago, and how are we able to determine that it is safer? Not just because kids come out to play at 3 o'clock, but in terms of street-corner sales and the data in terms of assaults, robberies, burglaries. How are we able to quantify that? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: It's quite difficult. As you're aware, I think Commissioner Johnson mentioned earlier, in that area, the Sunrise area, homicides are down 40 percent, shootings are down, robberies are down. However, the ultimate judge on how safe it is are really the folks that live in that area, and they need to see two things, I think: Strong narcotics enforcement and a strong uniform presence. The only thing I can tell you, and you and I had this discussion my first week in Philadelphia, that neighborhood over there had been quite literally 705 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 abandoned, for want of a better term, by the Police Department. That's not the case now. So whether it's I think -- I'm convinced that it's safer, but I can guarantee you there are a lot more uniformed and narcotics officers over there than there were a little over two years ago. It's going to take a while. Sometimes there is a lag in perception to reality, and so even though realistically by statistics it may in fact be safer, until the people feel that comfort -- and that's going to take a while. It's going to take more than arrests, it's going to take going to public meetings, reassuring. We're trying to do all of that. Commissioner Johnson, as much time as he spends on fighting crime, he spends just as much time, him and Jerry Daily and Chief Rooney, going to community meetings, doing drug marches. It's not just one way we're attacking over there, it's the whole idea of real arrests, but also perception, working with the community in a real fashion, not just lip service, actually out there. My sense is that the best judge of that is the folks in the neighborhood. By and large, when I go to the communities meetings over there, we get 706 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 more thanks than we do criticism, but we still do get criticism because a neighborhood may be safe but if the drug dealers are on my corner, it ain't safe.

Councilman Ortiz

And I have to congratulate you and Sylvester Johnson. We did have this conversation around two and a half years ago about what was going to happen and it did happen. We had always said that that was a warehouse of drugs in the City and that from there almost all crime emanated. But the question is, and I believe, I think there's a different feeling in the community. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

Councilman Ortiz

I think you can see it in the community meetings that we both attend and go to. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

Councilman Ortiz

Commissioner, in terms of Operation Sunrise, and I think Councilman Clarke said, because it is a stabilizing program of a neighborhood and it's a long-term program. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right.

Councilman Ortiz

As it expands 707 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 towards Broad, the forth-year period is hopefully going to extend to that area. And will that then go across Broad Street? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes. We will -- we're doing a variety of things, and I don't want to get too far out ahead of Mayor Street because he's got -- you know he ran on a platform he's got some ideas also, and we've been meeting on that to come up with a variety of anti-crime strategies. And we should never stay with a pat hand because, you know, drug dealers and criminals adapt their tactics to police tactics and so we must have enough flexibility. At the end of the day, and everybody's welcome to come to COMPSTAT, you know, it's pretty simple stuff, we put the cops where the dots are. You know, if we've got an area where there's shootings and there's homicides and there's robberies and it shows up on our maps, I mean, that's how we're going to respond. And while we have overall macro plans, we also have little plans that go into a block that may be suffering from a series of robberies or shootings. We had the issue in the last weeks of last year the first two weeks of this year down in 708 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 the Southwest where there was quite a bit of gun playing including two incidents where police officers were shot at. That required us redeploying resources down there. That by and large has quieted down down there. We made quite a few arrests. Our highway cops are down there making lots the gun arrests. That doesn't mean because we put people down there we've abandoned other parts of the City. And I've said this at public meetings, one of the down sides of Operation -- Operation Sunrise has got a lot of play, good positive play. But one of the down sides is that people think it's a zero sum game, that if they're over there, they can't be in my neighborhood. We have not abandoned any neighborhood in Philadelphia. We have our field narcotics teams throughout Philadelphia. They are augmented by the narcotics enforcement teams at the district level. Two years ago, as Commissioner Johnson said, there were about 230, 240 police officers devoted to narcotics. Now, including the narcotics enforcement teams, we have around 600. That's a lot of officers devoted, that's almost 10 percent of the force devoted to 709 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 narcotics enforcement.

Councilman Ortiz

Commissioner, what usually happened before prior to a lot of the drug forces and programs that we have implemented is that once you began working in an area that what happened was that the drug movement would just move to another neighborhood, that it just really we did not eliminate it from that neighborhood, they just picked up and went away to another area while this place cool off. Do you see that happening? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I would never try to minimize that this isn't any displacement. But what there is not, there is not displacement 100 percent. So in other words, if we're in an area pressuring drug dealers, they just can't get up and move down, you know, a mile and a half into some other area because the other area may have in fact have drug dealers and face it or not, you just can't walk in and set up trade where somebody else is. Our first indication when that happens is we get gunfire and turf battles. We monitor that very closely. But is there displacement? You get 710 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 some of it, but it's not 100 percent. It's not even 50 percent. You do get some of it and we try and track that. By the same token, when we leave, for example, Phase and and we're in 3, it doesn't mean we've completely gone from 1 to 2. We drop back, we do maintenance days. There's a whole host of things that we're doing.

Councilman Ortiz

A few years ago the question asked and was not answered here -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right.

Councilman Ortiz

-- was, do you know how many drug corners we have in the City of Philadelphia today. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I think the last time I checked it was about 10,580 or 10,850. What is it? It must have dropped down, 10,814 as of this morning.

Councilman Ortiz

How many? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: 10,814. And by the way, last year, if you remember, I testified to a little over 8,000. I think it was almost evenly divided half and half. It's a cumulative effect. How we get these locations are from phone 711 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 call to 911 and one of the steps goes to narcotics or as we debrief informants or as we get letters from the community. All that gets filtered into our narcotics division and we maintain an ongoing list. Now, by the way, I guarantee you some of them have been closed down, but we still keep them there because I get evidence. Just, I guess it was Saturday and I was at a community meeting in West Philadelphia with one of the state senators out there, Tony Williams, a place that we actually sealed up and then the drug dealers after a month went back in and opened up shop again. We're going back again. Commissioner Johnson went back Monday or Tuesday. And so we don't completely take them off the list even though some of the locations may be de-active right now.

Councilman Ortiz

Well, we have them identified and we have people working at those corners? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes. And what we have is, and I try and be honest with people, you know, if you give me a location, I'm not going to guarantee that we'll be there tomorrow or next week. But I'm going to guarantee you it will not 712 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 be thrown in the wastepaper basket, it will be dealt with in the near future. At a minimum it will become a part of the intelligence base so we get an overall picture of the narcotics trade in Philadelphia.

Councilman Ortiz

Madam Chair, I've got my five minutes. I'll come back with other questions.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.

Councilman Dicicco

Thank you Madam Chair. Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Good afternoon, sir.

Councilman Dicicco

There were some questions asked today and Councilman Kenney and Krajewski were going in the direction about repeat offenders. I remember asking Common Pleas Court President Judge Bonavitacola the question last year, do you have any indication or statistics as it relates to repeat offenders. And at the time, 713 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 I believe he said that the court was not in a position to give any of that information out because they don't have a tracking system where they don't keep those records. Without divulging names of the defendants, does your department keep those records? Is there a way of giving us some of those numbers as a the number of people who are arrested and rearrested? Do you have anything like that you can share with us? If not today, give it to the Chair. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I can give you kind of an overall view of how things are because we do in fact do this every Thursday at COMPSTAT and often have the detectives testifying at COMPSTAT or explaining about a case they're working on and they've locked up this guy for a shooting or a robbery or a burglary, and often I'll ask, "So what was his sheet like, what was his priors?" It is not uncommon, it really isn't, for them to say 10, 15 occurrences. We know for a fact when we do Center City, which suffers tremendously from car break-ins, it is not uncommon, not an exaggeration, to have the same guy locked up month after month having 25, 30 714 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 arrests for car break-ins. I will say that in the last two years the courts have become more responsive, especially to the area of property crime. There's been a feeling or sense that, "well, it's just a car break-in, what's the big deal?" In the whole scheme of things, it seems to dwarf in comparison to a shooting. And I think that's a bad way of viewing it. I think even if it's only a car break-in and you're a multiple offender that you've got to spend some time, I mean, the public deserves some kind of a respite even if it's only for 90 days. Give us a break for 90 days or 6 months, whatever it is. We're starting to see some of that, but very oven -- well, let me just say, it's the exception where somebody doesn't have a previous.

Councilman Dicicco

I was a member of the court system for a number of years at Philadelphia Traffic Court, but I interacted with the other courts when we would have our staff meetings, administrative meetings. And I recall five, six years ago when I was there the numbers were somewhere between 80 and 85 percent of the people who are arrested are really repeat 715 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 offenders. I just was curious if it was still up in that range. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Commissioner Brennan, he's the -- Charles, do you have that handy?

Mr. Brennan

I have rough figures I can give. My name is Charles Brennan, Deputy Police Commissioner. What we do, we have a system that we can positively identify everyone we arrest. It's a fingerprint system. And we know from that system that between 60 percent and it's gotten as high as in the 90 percent of the people that we arrest come back again, over and over again. I'm not sure it's ever gotten below about 60. I know those figures are rough, but they vary from week to week considerably.

Councilman Dicicco

Again, there's always the discussion as to whose fault it is that people are out there, and I think the police have done a fantastic job even prior to your administration, Commissioner. Unfortunately, when you go into the communities, most people feel as though people aren't being arrested. I think we need to continue to stress that, not only to the 716 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 public, but to the courts. And I for one, as an elected official who participates in the electorial process of many of these judges, need to somehow get that message across that when the police are making arrests and good arrests that they really need to take into consideration more of the fact that they are releasing the same people which really clogs up the system and is costing us a fortune. I mean we spend over $100 million a year as a city to support the court system. You guys are out there doing your job, ladies and gentlemen are out there doing your job, and we need to give you some more support. So I would appreciate those comments and those figures. One other thing I just wanted to mention. Since you've been the commissioner, up until about seven or eight weeks ago, no matter where I went you've been praised for your leadership abilities. But I want to share this with you and you may want to comment, you may not want to comment. I happened to be in a room with several distinguished members of our judiciary talking about a new court that we're looking to form in the City of Philadelphia. And I won't 717 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 mention the judge's name, but we were talking about the number of arrests and the fact that the courts now have a much more higher number of cases to deal with. And he said, "Sure, this guy Timoney comes to town and all he thinks he needs to do is arrest people." I was just wondering if you'd like to comment on that? (Laughter.)

Councilman Dicicco

Kind of tongue in cheek. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I know. It was expected the arrests would go up, and they did go up around percent. But last year it was only 15 up around 3 percent. We expected it to go up, 16 level off, and then eventually as crime goes down, 17 the arrests should decline. That's the pattern 18 I'm expecting, just that, 20 percent, last year it 19 was up 3 percent, maybe even we will go below this 20 year.

Councilman Dicicco

So I guess it would be fair to say that you're actually pleased about that comment? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I am.

Councilman Dicicco

You're doing your 718 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 job. Thank you. Thank you. No further questions, Madam Chair.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon, gentlemen. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Good afternoon, sir.

Councilman Clarke

A couple quick questions. Drug recovery community, I happen to have interacted with a lot of those organizations, and it became increasing clear that a lot of those people have vast knowledge about the drug industry, where the drugs are coming, what kind of drugs, who controls what area. Does the Police Department interact with them at all to any degree, to providers. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: No. Well, I'm going to give a philosophical --

Councilman Clarke

What I mean by the drug recovery community, I mean like the 719 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 organizations heads. I mean, they have this ability to get things out of the people that they service that others don't. Do you to talk to them at all? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I'll let Commissioner Johnson answer because he's been working with a few different groups.

Mr. Johnson

We do, and what I basically did about a year and a half ago, formed an advisory group and that advisory group, we meet once a month. They come down and we share information. And this advisory group, I know there's like four or five organizations inside North Philadelphia that comes down and they participate. In addition to that, in a lot of the drug markets they also participate. We use them, not just for information, but we use them for advice. We try to form that type of partnership with them. There's a Mr. Campbell from the 2400 block of Germantown Avenue who has a recovery program. I think there's a person in West Philadelphia. There's quite a few groups that we have constant communications with.

Councilman Clarke

Is it a formalized 720 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 advisory -- I mean, the reason I ask this question, when I was out campaigning doing my thing, one of the major concerns that they had is that they had no interaction with the Police Department. And I'm just telling you what they told me, it's clear to them that they would like to get the drugs off the street as much as, if not more than all of us in government. They didn't feel that they had that wherewithal to have those kinds of discussions, other than drug marches.

Mr. Johnson

It is formalized. As a matter of fact, I think you were at a major drug march that we had in October. Most of the groups that I have contact with was at that drug march. As I said, we meet approximately once a month. Anyone can join it. At this point, we have approximately well over 60 or 70 people from different organizations that are a part of this group, and we constant communication with them. They have my number, I have theirs, so we're in constant communications. We set up a program where they get information without having the people actually come forward, they can just make a phone call to keep their identity confidential. 721 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: If I can just interrupt. He even has an ex-offender group working with us. So it isn't like we're an exclusive club.

Councilman Clarke

Can you do me a favor? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Sure.

Councilman Clarke

When you have the next meeting, can I get a call and be invited? What I'm hearing from them and what I'm hearing today is different.

Mr. Johnson

The next meeting is next week.

Councilman Clarke

Okay, great. I'm going to take off my Council hat right now, if I can, if the Chair will allow me. Personally, a guy, I grew up, born and raised in North Philadelphia, happened to live in the 22nd Police District. Statistics have shown over the last years the highest number of shootings. They would be higher, but fortunately most of these guys can't shoot straight. As an individual who frequents the neighborhood, lives in the neighborhood, I don't understand why 722 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 individuals are allowed to stand on the corner all day and all of us who live in those neighborhoods know that these individuals have guns. I guess my question is, if you had a wish list, Commissioner, Deputies, what would you need legislatively to put you in a position to get these guns out of the hands of these individuals who are standing on the corner? And be as radical as you can, because it is to the point, I mentioned to the my legislative aid and he thinks I'm crazy, I was going to request that the military police pull up in a jeep and a 50 caliber machine gun on some these corners, and I'm serious about that. That's just how desperate I am. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: We are completely sympathetic, but the one thing we've said from day one that we are not going to break the law to enforce the law. So if we're going to search somebody out there, we need at a minimum to be in that search reasonable suspicion.

Councilman Clarke

Can you change the law? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: That's the Supreme Court. What's easier to change if we can 723 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 get somebody's attention in Harrisburg, if we just went to one gun a month and reduced the availability of guns and take the profit out of guns, that would good be a tremendous, tremendous lift in reducing the number of guns in Philadelphia. Because it isn't that the Philadelphia Police aren't doing their jobs, because last year and the year before we've seized and made 5,000 gun arrests and seized almost 5,000 guns. That's the equivalent of the New York City Police Department taking 25,000 guns off the street. In its worst day when it had 2500 homicides, the New York Police Department confiscated 17,000 guns. So in New York City's worse day, in our best year we've outdone them. Philadelphia Police Officers make ten times as many gun arrests as New York City Police Officers. There's far too many guns in Philadelphia. I think part of the blame rests in Harrisburg. I've been up there. I went with Mayor Rendell. I'll be going up there with Mayor Street. It's not to curtail the right to bear arms, it's to take the profit out of the gun trade and remove the easy access, easy availability of guns that get in the 724 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 hands of kids and criminals. This is a no-brainer. And until we do that, unfortunately, no matter how good Philadelphia Police Department does it, and it's doing a great job, there will always be a high homicide rate, a high shooting rate in Philadelphia. That's just a sad fact of life.

Councilman Clarke

That's the one magic bullet? Excuse the pun. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: That would be one thing that would do more than anything else, yes.

Councilman Clarke

I guess I'm just, you know -- I yield, I yield to Councilman.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Councilman Nutter.

Councilman Nutter

Thank you. Thank you, Commission, for your response. But I got impression that the Councilman's question went more to -- I mean, maybe none of these guys hang out on the corner have bought another weapon in any recent time. Maybe this is the gun they got when they were 15 and they're now 25, so one gun a month doesn't 725 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 mean that much for that particular person. They have their one gun now. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right.

Councilman Nutter

I thought the Councilman's question was half a dozen guys hanging out on the corner, it's about degrees 8 outside or it's 88 degrees outside and they're just hanging there. Now, everybody down to about 5 or 6 knows who these guys are, what they're about, and what they might possibly be up to. I thought his question was more on the nature of cars go back and forth, various officers on patrol, and I got the impression he was talking more about either moving those people along -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right.

Councilman Nutter

-- or engaging them in some way that might provide some opportunity and something that gets close to, I guess, a probable cause to say either "What are you doing? What's going on? Get off the corner. What's that bulge I see in your jacket, in your pants, in your back or whatever, and I'd like to check that out." Councilman, were you more in that area of either moving people along or trying 726 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 confiscating the weapon based on some kind of PC?

Councilman Clarke

Frankly, Councilman Nutter, I'm a little dismayed at the response. Not knowing statistically what you know, I was hoping that you would say something along the lines that would the Police Department more authority to move those people along to possibly go up and search those individuals when their standing on the corner for six hours. I know there are various civil libertarians that will say that we can't do, but I ask you what radical law you can have, because, you know, frankly speaking, I'm getting sick and tired of having to go home every night and have people look at me because I'm still the guy that stays in the neighborhood and they don't understand why can't get these guns out of these guys' hands on the corner. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: But, in fact, they're doing quite a bit of that. They're recovering a lot of guns just in the 22nd on New Year's Eve. We had two officers in a shoot-out there with two guys. The police are out there. But also, by the way, they're also changing their MO, their modus operandi for drug dealers. We've 727 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 found now in parts of 35th District, this is what the officers are now -- as a result of being aggressive, they're coming up on the corner, they'll find four guys, they come out to confront them. One guy will confront the cop, and say, "Listen, Officer, I have a gun, I have a license to carry it. The drug dealers aren't carrying the guns. They've got some guy who's over without 10 a record, he's got the gun. We're now in the 11 process of holding gun hearings where we're 12 revoking those permits on a kind of common scheme. 13 So as we're moving aggressively, they're also 14 changing their habits. So it may look like some 15 of them have guns, some don't. It is quite as 16 easy as people -- and I understand. I'm not in 17 the least not sympathetic. I'm as frustrated as 18 you are. 19

Mr. Johnson

Councilman, we tried that 20 a few years ago. It was called Operation Cold 21 Turkey in the Spring Garden area. And what basically happened is that the federal government -- that thing cost like $15, $16 million for doing that. And one of the things about Operation Sunrise, I think the Commissioner 728 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 pointed, that we're not going to break law to enforce the law. One of the concerns of Councilman Ortiz is when I talked to him approximately two years ago and the entire neighborhood went to the community meetings was that we were going to be an invasion force, that we were going to come over ther and we're just going to harass people, stop people and violate their constitutional rights.

Councilman Clarke

I go to community meetings three, four times a night, and they're asking for an invasion force. The people that live in that community are asking for an invasion force. At some point, we have to decide who's going to dictate what the policies are as it relates to their communities. Is it some lawyer from Washington or is it the people in that community? People are asking for drastic changes. I think that they should get some reasonable response.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, in your response to Councilman Clarke's question you said that you would not break the law to enforce it. 729 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Correct.

Councilman Rizzo

Probable cause. Police officers for a probable cause are able to ask motorists to submit to a Breathalyzer test. I can't even believe I'm making this suggestion. Would it be within the law if a supervisor, if an officer wanted to detain these four guys on the corner, could a hand-held metal detector be used legally by police to determine whether or not a person's carrying a gun? Could they be frisked with a hand-held metal detector legally?

Councilman Ortiz

(Off mike.)

Councilman Rizzo

Councilman, I'm just asking the question. Obviously, the constitution is a concern because I've asked can it be done legally. Thank you. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I'll be quite frank with you, you know, I've not thought about that. We've actually joked about that. It's a common joke in policing that you should go down some corners with a metal detector, but I've never really given it serious thought. I actually don't know if that's -- in other words, here's the assumption, if I had a metal detector and somebody 730 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 decided -- I walked up and somebody decided to just walk away, you then run into the argument of does them running away from a metal detector provide reasonable suspicion. I have no -- I mean, I would be willing to sit down with the lawyers and talk about this, but I just don't know.

Councilman Rizzo

In other words, those four people on the corner, the officer suspected that they may have a gun because someone told them. They could do the search right then and there. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right then and there. If somebody calls -- and Supreme Court's pretty clear on this. It isn't just there a hundred guys on Broad and Olney and one of them got a gun. You just can't go start tossing people. It's got to be there's hundred guys on Broad and Olney, one guy is wearing a red hat, he's got a polo sweat shirt, something more than guys on the corner one of them carrying a gun. You need some specific information that provides the basis of reasonable suspicion. Reasonable suspicion gives you the ability to pat somebody 731 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 down. If you find something hard, you go inside the pocket. I understand the frustration, and I'm not being dismissive, I'm really not.

Councilman Rizzo

We're trying to be a part of the solution. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: But my sense is we're making quite a few gun arrests, we really are. And so it's not from lack of effort. There are just far to many guns, it's far too easy. Time and time again where we can spot people going up in Valley Forge and King of Prussia to these guns sales bringing back 15, guns to South 15 Philadelphia. We have our people following them. 16 They may lock them up, but sometimes they get rid 17 of 10 or 15 before we get them. 18

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, 19 Councilman Clarke. 20

Councilman Clarke

You're welcome. Okay, I know my five minutes are up. Commissioner, can I possibly in the near future sit down with you off the record -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Absolutely.

Councilman Clarke

-- and talk about 732 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 some of these radical ideas that I have? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, sir.

Councilman Clarke

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you very much. Good afternoon, gentlemen. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Good afternoon, ma'am.

Councilwoman Tasco

I support Councilman Clarke. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: You're on the left, you're on the right; something's wrong here. (Laughter.)

Councilwoman Tasco

Listen, at some point you just reach a level of frustration because these people are really harassing and terrorizing neighborhoods and people are held hostage in their homes and I have a respect for civil rights and all of that, but at some point, I mean, they just can't be allowed to take advantage 733 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 of --

Councilman Ortiz

Don't ask for a cure that's worse than the disease.

Council President Verna

Let's not have conversation between us, please.

Councilwoman Tasco

Well, maybe --

Councilman Ortiz

Because in black communities and Latino communities --

Council President Verna

All right, let's not have conversation between us, please. Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Tasco

Maybe they don't have the drug dealers standing on the corner harassing people when they go out. But I think that we ought to find some way, as you say within the law, and if not, we can work to change the law so that we can address some of these issues. My question's a little bit more back to the street neighborhood stuff. I have one concern that has been brought to my attention over and over again from my staff as we deal with truck parking in neighborhoods, and it's a far cry from the drug stuff, but very important to the quality of life to people when look out the door and 734 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 there's a tractor-trailer or a school bus or a large truck parked on the street. When we call and ask that the these vehicles are ticketed, we are told by the Police Department they can't ticket these trucks because there are no signs up that says "no truck parking." But we have an ordinance, there is an ordinance that says that a bus can only park in a bus zone, and we also have a an ordinance from the Streets Department that says that these tractor-trailers of a certain tonnage can not park on the streets. So what we want from the Police Department is that you inform your police officers that these ordinances do exist, they do not need to have no-parking signs in a residential neighborhood, and that they can be ticketed. Because if we're going to spend a lot of money putting up signs just to accommodate us to allow to get the police officers to give a ticket or enforce that code, that's a waste of money when ordinance clearly state that there should be no trucks parking on the street of a certain tonnage of truck and buses can't park on residential streets. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Okay. 735 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Tasco

Only if designated a bus zone. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Is there a specific part, or all over of Philadelphia?

Councilwoman Tasco

I know it happens in my district. If you go down Stenton Avenue, turn on Broad Street going north on Broad, you turn left on Stenton, between Old York Road and Ogontz, there are five tractor-trailers there. They shouldn't be there. Somebody's running an illegal business. They shouldn't be there. We've had trouble with that spot over and over again. We get them in certain parts, but what we want is when we call and issue a complaint, we want the code enforced. We don't want to be told that you have to have a no-truck parking sign in the community to remove the truck or ticket the truck. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Okay.

Councilwoman Tasco

We're just asking for enforcement. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

And I think the that happens in just about every area of the City. 736 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Tasco

Right, every neighborhood, but it's really a problem for us because we get a lot of those complaints about these trucks, these buses, vendor trucks. All of these things are not wanted in these neighborhoods.

Council President Verna

Exactly.

Councilwoman Tasco

Because the issue of abandon cars, I think we've talked that to death. Oh, and I just wanted to ask you a question. We've hired a number of police officers under the Federal Crime Bill. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Tasco

And at some point in time, we're going to have to pick -- I noticed you mentioned it in your testimony. Pick up the cost of those police officers. At what point are we working on making sure that we don't have to give up those slots but be able to retain those officers on our General Fund budget? COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Tom Nestel. Councilwoman, the majority of those officers are off of the federal grant and are being paid with 737 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 the City funds at the present time. The Administration has made a commitment that none of those officers, the level would not be reduced and as the federal monies stop, the City has budgeted right within the five-year plan to take up those salaries. There will be no cuts in those personnel.

Councilwoman Tasco

Okay. To the 911 system, have you completed the installation of the 911 enhancement system and all the other components to your system?

Mr. Brennan

The answer to that is yes. In the last, I would guess four to five years --

Council President Verna

Excuse me, sir. Would you please identify yourself for the record?

Mr. Brennan

I'm sorry. I'm Charles Brennan, I'm a Deputy Police Commissioner. In the last five years we've dumped probably an excess of $15 million in upgrading 911, the computer systems, the room, the furniture, the floors, the cabling, the mobile data computers, the communications network, so for 738 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 all intents and purposes, it's done.

Council President Verna

Amen.

Mr. Brennan

Amen is right.

Council President Verna

Long overdue.

Councilwoman Tasco

I don't get complaints about the 911 system that I used to get.

Mr. Brennan

Thank you very much.

Councilwoman Tasco

It's now trees and truck-parking. (Laughter.)

Councilwoman Tasco

And I'm glad we don't hear that because that was always a topic of discussion at community meetings, so we thank you for that. Thank you very much. I'm going to ask my staff to get a copy of the code to you because we have copies for the trucks parking.

Council President Verna

Are you finished, Councilwoman.

Councilwoman Tasco

Yes, thank you.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam 739 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 President. Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Good afternoon, ma'am.

Councilwoman Brown

And your team of professionals over there. I want to call your attention to of the testimony. And again, the topic is children and youth. You indicated in the enhanced grants that you've received over 2 million for drug prevention programs, GREAT and DARE. DARE, I'm somewhat familiar with; GREAT, I am not. So we can handle that one of two ways, give brief description now and/or send more detailed to the Chair for dissemination to the Councilmembers. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Okay. Captain Jerry Gallagher from Community Relations heads up the GREAT program. The GREAT program is the Gang Resistance Education and Training program. It's a federally funded national program dealing with kids, gang prevention, lecturing to schools, a whole host of things, but rather than go into it, I will have Captain Gallagher provide the information to the Council. 740 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Brown

Terrific. You mentioned schools, so there is some linkage, some coordination with Philadelphia Public Schools? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: That's correct.

Councilwoman Brown

Moving now to anti-truancy efforts. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Brown

Here you indicate that the department has increased it's efforts to curb truancy. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right.

Councilwoman Brown

Should I assume that your role is primarily transport, pick up and then transport and it ends there? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Correct.

Councilwoman Brown

So then I'll have additional questions for the School District, I presume, around the truancy piece. When you say you have increased efforts, what does that mean? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Prior to two years ago, the effort on truancy was sporadic and segmented. Some of it was done in Center City and some was done up in the northeast. It wasn't 741 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 applied equally throughout the City for a whole variety of reasons.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: We now, under Inspector Joe Fox, have a citywide truancy program so safe havens, there are no neighborhoods where you can play hooky and get away with it. It's a citywide effort. We sat down with the Board of Education. In some areas we bring them right back to the schools. Down in South Philly we have what's called catchment area in the Polumbo School. The first year there was some growing pains, some problems. Last year it went without a hitch.

Councilwoman Brown

And as a result of a uniformed citywide effort, you've noticed a decrease in truancy? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: They are finding, and the Board of Directors will be better with the statistics, that there has been an increase in attendance which would be expected.

Councilwoman Brown

Very well. Let me draw your attention now to 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 4, last paragraph, the special victims unit. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Brown

It indicates clearly that you saw the problem and you fixed it. What linkages or coordinating activity exists with any of the advocacy groups, women and children's advocacy groups which ultimately contributes to the success that you're experiencing? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: There are at least two things of significance. One is there is a plan afoot to merge about or detectives 13 with the Child Advocacy Center to handle all 14 cases that involve young children. 15

Councilwoman Brown

Repeat that. I 16 didn't hear it all. 17 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: There's a plan, 18 an institution called the Child Advocacy Center 19 where detectives who investigate crimes will 20 cohabitate (sic) with social service providers, counselors, so that when you have a child who's the victim of a crime is being interviewed, they're being interviewed only once. They're not going through three or four different layers of government. 743 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Brown

Very good. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: We have that plan afoot. On the Special Victims, the sex crime part we, have been meeting with over the last three or four months various members of a variety of women's groups who have really been quite helpful in our reforms towards the investigation of sex-crime cases. We've also with their assistance established a working committee that meets on a regular basis with the captain and the detectives from the Special Victims Unit because we firmly believe that we have taken as many steps, reform steps as humanly possible and that we have nothing to hide and that as we move into the future, we will have these women's groups there with us saying yea or nay regarding how we're doing our investigations, because we don't feel there is anything to hide, no situations. Clearly there are confidentiality issues --

Councilwoman Brown

Sure, sure. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: -- regarding victims of crime. But how those investigations are conducted, whether they're unfounded, whether they resulted in arrest, whether the 744 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 investigation's completed, we are willing to have a committee outside because we feel that the damage has been so great that we probably need that, and that's fine. We just kind of, if you will, vouch, an independent voice vouching saying, yes, what they're doing is correct.

Councilwoman Brown

Very well. Thank you very much. Thank you Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Commissioner. How much does your department spend in court-related overtime? I know that there has been ongoing meetings to try to curtail the overtime of court-related business. COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Court-related overtime for non-reimbursable overtime amounts to in excess of 50 percent of our entire overtime budget.

Council President Verna

Repeat that, please. COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Court-related overtime in the non-reimbursable area accounts for 50 -- in excess of 50 percent of our non-reimbursable an overtime. 745 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

Commissioner, have there been ongoing meetings between you and the District Attorney and the Courts regarding this issue? COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Yes. There are -- in fact we actually meet with Municipal Court every week over prisoner processing and other issues. There have been series of meetings specifically related to the court-related overtime issue. We have a pilot program in one narcotics courtroom that is restricting the number of officers who appear at that preliminary hearing to one. Prior to that, three or four officers were subpoenaed to a preliminary hearing in every case. Now in that one courtroom, there is one officer. And hopefully, that program will be extended to the other preliminary hearings.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Commissioner, on of your testimony, you cover the upgrading of police facilities. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, ma'am.

Council President Verna

What is your overall assessment of the condition of police 746 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 facilities throughout the City? I personally think some of them are absolutely deplorable, however, that's my assessment. Does your proposed FY 2001 capital budget address your needs regarding the police facilities? COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Tom Nestel. The police facilities within the past eight years there has been a tremendous amount of money and effort put into rehabilitating our facilities. In this coming year, we do have money for upgrading air-conditioning in some of the districts, for some other maintenance-type issues. We also have in the budget the monies for a brand-new facility for the 24th, 25th district, a brand-new facility for our laboratory division, and just within the last couple of months, our Internal Affairs Division has moved into a new facility. So there's still a lot of work that needs to be done, but we are addressing those issues.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you, Madam Chair. 747 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 I'm going to go back to Operation Cold Turkey because 1100 people were arrested during that time, and I remember that occurred in April of '85. COMMISSIONER NESTEL: That's right.

Councilman Ortiz

On May of '85 right after that I think 1100 people were arrested during that period of time where they with a cross violation of civil rights and I think they got a total of seven ounces of grass. And then a month later, the MOVE incident occurred in essence. And today, you go and you take a look at what happens to certain cities, New York is an example today, where you have the Dealo case happening today of an overzealous Police Department. We have the other case in terms of New York. We have a case, a situation in New York City, my daughter lives there. She's Puerto Rican. And between blacks and Latino neighborhoods, there is fear of the Police Department, constant fear. There is no 22 trust, but there is fear. I don't think that's what we want to go towards. I think we can do the things that we need to do, but if we become overzealous, we might do what Benjamin Franklin 748 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 said, you know, we may lose -- if you're afraid, sometimes fear makes you lose your own liberty. And I believe that we have to strike a balance there. But that's not here or there. You know, the frustrations that we have in poor neighborhoods sometimes are overbearing. But we do have to be able not to cross those lines. And I think we managed in Operation Sunrise. I think in Operation Sunrise there has been a sensitivity that has been developed in which people and the corners where people were there, a different methodology has been used and I've been seeing it. Sylvester Johnson can testify to that. That we have not -- I would hate for us to go back to the 1970s in Philadelphia in which there was a sense of fear of the Police Department in black and Latino neighborhoods in this City. And the Police Department really felt that they could go to a corner and if you were Latino or black, you just were moved or beaten or just arrested. And we had a lot of problems with the federal government. We ended up losing federal grants. We ended up losing HUD money. We ended up losing because of the gross violations of civil rights that took 749 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 place. So I think that you came from New York. There was a mayor there that believed in certain strong-arm tactics, and they did not work or at least I don't believe because right now what we have is a system. But, you know, we just have to be very careful that we do not go overboard on that. Commissioner, on the Affirmative Action in terms of minority hiring in the Police Department, how successful have we been in being able, one, to attract minority individuals to take the test? How many have taken the test? How many have passed? And how many have gone on to the academy in terms of blacks, women, and Latinos? How are we doing in that area? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right now the Philadelphia Police Department, probably more than any Police Department in a big city in this country reflects more accurately the population of the people it serves; not gender-wise, but certainly the racial aspect. However, the exam we just administered four or five months ago was meant to do a few things. It was meant to get the department out 750 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 from underneath a hiring consent decree, that it was going to be an exam that was produced that would result in no or little disparity impact in regards to racial minorities. And we administered that exam and we were -- us and I think the last administration and the personnel department are satisfied with the results. Unfortunately, for who knows what the reasons are, we started off with a huge number that applied. That number went down as far as those that actually showed up to take it. The passing mark, there was no 13 significant disparity impact so we were satisfied with that.

Councilman Ortiz

But when we began to call people down to get qualified to go into the academy, we have a declination rate, that's people declining to come down or when they come down opting not to sign up of equally 50 percent on both sides, on African-Americans and on whites. It's resulted in us putting in one class. We were hoping to put in three classes out of this last list. We've put in one. We may get half of a second class. We just announced another exam, I guess, a week or two ago. We're having a huge problem nationwide getting people to enter right now the police 751 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 profession. I was at a meeting last week of the major city chiefs. And while we're having a difficult time, in places like Los Angeles, Honolulu, and New York they're having a desperate time. Los Angeles has 600 vacancies that they cannot fill. Honolulu has 300 vacancies that they cannot fill. New York City just spent $10 million administering the exam and was hoping to realize between 2500 and 3,000 finalists. They wound up with about 1300. They just announced a new exam. Across the board in every major city throughout the United States, there is a huge problem regarding police candidates. So when you add on top of that its impact on racial minorities, it's almost at this stage a secondary issue that we have to get people to come in and take the job. It's gotten that bad.

Councilman Ortiz

What is the percentage of African-Americans right now on the Police Department and Latinos and women? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: On African-Americans, it's 35 percent; 5.5 percent Latinos; and females, 24 percent female. 752 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Ortiz

What is the breakdown in terms of captains, lieutenants, inspectors, by ethnic group? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I can get that for you. I don't have that handy, but clearly the upper ranks of the Philadelphia Police Department --

Mr. Johnson

I can tell you from the top of my head. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I was going to say there's very little at the top. (Laughter.)

Councilman Ortiz

I knew you would have the answer.

Mr. Johnson

Chief inspectors I think out of 12 we have Afro-American. And inspectors, I believe we have 40-something. There's Afro-Americans, one Latino.

Councilman Ortiz

How many women?

Mr. Johnson

Excuse me?

Councilman Ortiz

How many women?

Mr. Johnson

As inspectors, I believe there are two, two women. Captains, I believe we have like 753 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 approximate 110, 114. Anyhow, I can tell you the Afro-Americans there, there's nine.

Councilman Ortiz

Nine captains?

Councilman Ortiz

Nine captains out of 109.

Mr. Johnson

There might be a little more than that. I mean, there's nine captains, but there might be a little more captains. There's nine Afro-American captains. I think there's one Latino captain. Lieutenant, I believe we have in the area of close to 300 and something lieutenants. Afro-Americans we have approximately 25, 28, I think 31 at this point. I'm not sure how many Latinos we have.

Councilman Ortiz

I think it's three?

Councilman Ortiz

I think there's three, I think. I'm not sure. Mr. JOHNSON: I'm not sure of the sergeant figures, but from lieutenant up those are the figures.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you. I have no more questions. I think my five minutes are 754 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 up.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller. I'm sorry, because of the time I'm going to have to insist that everybody be given five minutes, and then we'll have a second go-around if we have to. But I think everybody should be given the opportunity to ask questions. Councilwoman?

Councilwoman Miller

I have a question regarding on of your testimony, the racial profiling. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Miller

I have a young man that works at a store in my district. I happened to go in that store last week and he has this wild hair. His hair is like really big. It's a huge, huge bush-type hair and he's constantly stopped by police. He asked me last week if I could help him, and I am going to help him set up an appointment to go up and talk to the captain at the 35th. And I think also he drives a coworker home from work who living in Kensington. So I'm not quite sure whether it's the 25th 755 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 district or what district he's speaking of there. Now, I see that we've created a new policy or a new form, the newly created form where officers are supposed to write -- now, isn't that a situation where they should write up if they're stopping kids just because they look different? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, they shouldn't be stopping anybody because they look different. So if doing that, they're wrong.

Councilwoman Miller

But if they're doing that, if they stop him, they should be filling this form out, am I not correct? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: That's correct.

Councilwoman Miller

Well, I don't know whether filled it out. That's something that we're going to work on. But if in fact they haven't filled it out, what would be his next step? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Discuss it with the captain at the 35th, and if he's not satisfied with him or his explanations, then by all means, come to myself or Commissioner Johnson. There may, in fact, be very easily satisfactory answers. I have no ideas. 756 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Miller

Well, neither do I. I'm just glad to see this form has been created, that there is now a process that hopefully will track these types of stops. So that's one question. I have a question. I'm not really clear. Are you going to keep and upgrade or get more mini mobile stations or that's it? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Not so long as I'm here.

Councilwoman Miller

Well, I didn't think you were too crazy about them when we, you know, questioned you before. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah.

Councilwoman Miller

I didn't think you liked them. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I don't know.

Councilwoman Miller

But I just wanted to be clear since it was mentioned in your testimony. Another question, I know that there's an effort to revise the disciplinary code by shortening the grievance in arbitration process. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Mm-hmm. 757 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Miller

I think right now you can grieve anything above a reprimand which leads to hundreds of grievances each year. Could you talk for a little bit about what you think would be a fair grievance and arbitration system for our officers. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: We're limited to five minutes. Let me just say, we actually have made some progress. Sitting down with the FOP, we've come up request command discipline system that allows the district commander to administer discipline up to five days. The officer must sign off on those disciplinary case, and therefore, they are not appealable, you can't grieve them. That has reduced the number of grievances. However, I would like to see that expanded to 10 or 15 days. Really, the ideal for me would be that when it comes to grievances that it be limited to cases of termination. I know I'm not going to get that, but you asked me what I'd like; that's what I will like.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. And while I'm asking you what you like, what would you like me to do to help you keep Chris DePasquale from 758 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 getting his job back? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: That case, I think it would be unfair for me to comment on that case right now. It's being heard, it's being litigated, and so I think that's inappropriate in a public forum like this.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. We can talk about that later. And one other question -- I have some other questions, but I can always talk to you about them later. Like we have some people that have concerns about how much the bikes costs for bike patrols, and if they can buy them all through you, maybe they can get a better price. And, you know, when they raise the money to buy the bikes, raise the money to buy the uniform, then an officer is transferred then that uniform sits there unused. So those kind of things we can always talk about later. But I did want to bring this one topic up. For about the past year my office has been contacted by police officers, both white and black, concerned about the treatment they have received by their fellow officers when they are 759 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 addressing racist remarks and behavior by fellow officers, being threatened with job loss, promotion, in some cases, more serious threats. What steps are being taken to solve the most serious of abuse of authority? And I wanted to add that some officers in Internal Affairs have also been mentioned as collaborating in these type of situations. Where can an officer go for help when this type of behavior is evident? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Well, I'm not so sure that type of behavior is evident. But if somebody has a complaint regarding being harassed because of their race or gender, then there are appropriate mechanisms. Every officer knows about that. I think I know, though, the folks that you're complaining about, and this has been an issue. Before I got here there is a certain group of police officers who have maintained this issue that there is racism, disparate treatment, some cases have been investigated, some have been sustained by Internal Affairs. But since every case hasn't been investigated and sustained they've concluded wrongly, I think, that somehow Internal Affairs is incompetent or racist also. I 760 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 think it runs whole gamut, my sense is while there was some cases where we found merit, in an awful lot of those case they were just disgruntled employees.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: And by the way, they weren't just African-American, they were African-American and white.

Councilwoman Miller

They were African-American and white. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yes.

Councilwoman Miller

And my five minutes are up. I understand. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair. My question today, I believe I'll ask this of Commissioner Brennan if that's okay since it's a question about technology. It pleases me and at the same time it troubles me when I hear about a situation where a person calls 911 and it's a prank call. Would it be -- I think it 761 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 would beneficial to the Police Department to publicize the fact that you have technology that identifies caller ID? many people that commit these pranks are not aware that they can be identified and apprehended for making these prank calls to police radio. I constantly hear stories that assist officers, etc. Now, my question: When a person calls police and falsifies a report like a police officer's in trouble, a police officer's been shot, I thought that we had some follow-up process where we would dispatch a supervisor to the location from where the call came from to try to make an apprehension of a person that's falsifying a police report, especially when it's endangering police officers responding to go an assist. So there are my -- one's a comment, and my second one is a question that I think we really need to publicize to the public that their phone calls to police radio, and especially the young people that might think that this is cute to see police cars responding at high rates of speeds, that they can get in a lot of trouble, that you have the technology to know who they are or at least know where the call was 762 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 originated from. That's something that I would like to see happen. And secondarily, I'd like to know how we're using that technology to apprehend people that are making prank calls to 911? And also, are we to the point where we can identify cell calls on the caller ID at police radio?

Mr. Brennan

I think, Councilman, you're probably referring to an article that appeared in the paper. I don't know if you saw it recently about the cellular phone caller who called us 5,000 times. He called us 5,000 times, 911. It was very difficult to track him down. What happened in that particular -- he used the a cellular phone company that does not sends us their phone number. There is one in the City that does. Bell, for instance, now sends us the phone number of the cellular phone from which you are calling. The other cellular phone companies do not. So when we get a cellular phone call in which -- they are becoming, by far, our biggest headache. The numbers of them are growing quite a bit every year. So what we did in that particular case is we got detectives involved and we used a 763 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 tremendous amount of manpower to track him down through the cellular phone company. What he did was he bought a phone that you pay like so much up front and you get a phone and then when the time runs out, you go back and pay again and you get the phone recharged. He used a phony name and a phony address to buy the phone. He used a reference on there that was his girlfriend, and luckily for us she was a spurned girlfriend so when we contacted her, she gave him up very quickly and we were able to find him. Now, took us probably about a month to track that one guy down. It was very difficult. And we had another one right after him, believe it or not. Both those cases are now in court. We do get a lot of prank phone calls in the area of about 6,000 a month. Many of them are by -- as a matter fact, we know the time of day when they come in; they come in when school lets out. When school lets out, you know, 2, 3, 4 o'clock, they hit the phone booths and they dial 911 and they're either yelling obscenities or something else and then they hang up. You can see the peak in the day is right there and then they 764 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 go away. What try to do is on the ones from private residences where become issue, like they continue over and over again, we started to track those and send them out to the captains for some remediation. Most of the times it's kids. But I'll tell you that it's difficult sometimes to figure out what a prank is. If someone calls up a man with a gun and we go there and there's no 10 person with a gun, does that mean it was a prank? Maybe not necessarily so. Maybe the guy's just not there anymore. I will tell you it is a big problem. We're trying to do something about, but at 6,000-plus a month, they are very difficult to track that individual.

Councilman Rizzo

Commissioner, I believe there's federal registration that's going to require all the cellular providers to provide 911 calls the data in the very newer future.

Councilman Rizzo

To use that example, the man with the gun, rather than dispatch a police officer, do we ever call people back and say, "You just called from this phone number and 765 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 reported a man with a gun." Do we do any kind of follow up at all?

Mr. Brennan

No, we don't. And the reason we don't is that the way the 911 call-takers are trained is basically to get the information. We do assume that it is true and we dispatch it. Now, if I had them call back in the volumes that we see in 911 -- keep in mind we're talking about anywhere from 6, 7,000, up to 15,000 calls a day that we get, plus we get a lot of the fire calls, too, come through us, or the MS calls they come through us. The time we would need to call everybody back I think would prohibitive and we would tie up that line from other people getting in.

Councilman Rizzo

Obviously, a call like, an assist officer, might warrant some investigation that if it's unfounded.

Mr. Brennan

I think, and I think the Commissioner would agree that an assist officer I think for the officer's safety that we dispatch, and we do that very quickly.

Councilman Rizzo

No, I meant if it's unfounded. In other words, if you have somebody 766 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 call in saying that officer's been shot or needs help --

Mr. Brennan

And we get there and it's unfounded. I agree with you that we probably should do better follow-up on those. I agree with you.

Councilman Rizzo

I know we're running out of time, but --

Council President Verna

Time's up, Councilman.

Councilman Rizzo

Can we publicize that somehow that the technology now can catch you?

Mr. Brennan

Yes, yes, we will.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Commissioner I inadvertently forgot to ask you about PAL. I know it's in the material you provided that the PAL centers increased by one, but number of young 767 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 people served dropped. Help me to understand that. It's Page -- actually, it's next to the last page of your testimony. And while you move to that, if a community is interested in starting a PAL center, who on your staff is the point person to call to determine if that's possible and/or if there are dollars there to make that happen? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: The commanding officer is Jacqueline Daly, Lt. Jacqueline Daly. And we are in the process of looking for two of the sites, including one in West Philadelphia, but was I'm looking for that reference you're making because there was no indication to me -- I may have glanced over it, but it usually fluctuates between 24,000 and 25,000 children being served by about to PALs. 19

Councilwoman Brown

Currently, it's 20 actually 9, 10, 11 of the materials you provided 21 on the next to last page. Let me hear the name of 22 the lieutenant again. 23 COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Jackie Daly, she's the commanding officer. I can get all the information over to your office, Councilwoman. 768 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Brown

Great. I'm just curious to know why there's a drop in the number of children served. You see the very last column all the way over to the extreme right, service level impact statement? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Oh. I'm looking at the text narrative.

Councilwoman Brown

Forgive me. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Forgive me.

Councilwoman Brown

FY 2001 projected. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I will get that information for you.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER NESTEL: I think I can clarify that, Councilwoman. When that initial project was made for FY 2000, there was an anticipation there was going to be one or two additional PAL centers entered, so therefore, we had projected there would be more people served than there actually were. Actually, there has been no decrease, it's just there had not been the increase that we had expected. 769 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Brown

Okay then, thank you very much. And then lastly -- well, no, because another question was sparked by Councilman Clarke. With DARE and GREAT, the federal funding for those programs go out through 2000 -- help me out, 2001, 2000, how long does that -- COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Actually, that grant for the past, I'm going to say approximately five years, has been renewed each year and our anticipations are that that will continue.

Councilwoman Brown

Excellent. Coordination of other various police departments like PHA, the universities, is there a policy? Is that commission directive? Has there been any conversation about the value in blending your work force since you're in the same business? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: As far as a merger, a merger is out of the question right now because there are civil service issues, there are pay issues and a whole host of things.

Councilwoman Brown

Sure. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: But that is not to say that we don't work close. We work ver 770 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 close with PHA, with Penn, with Temple. And every Thursday morning, in addition to the informal and formal meetings at the local level with the district commanders, at our level every Thursday morning at the police academy in our COMPSTAT meetings, depending on which district is up, for example, if it's the 22nd, 23rd, and those in North Philly, Temple and Temple Police will be in attendance. If it's the 18th, Penn, Drexel, they'll all attend. St. Joe's if it's the 19th. So we do meet at least once a week at my level and then almost daily on an informal basis down at the district level.

Councilwoman Brown

And I guess to share information about how your -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: The crimes, the deployment. In our narcotics enforcement, Commissioner Johnson has a team of police officers from PHA assigned over to his the Narcotics Unit that does narcotics enforcement in PHA properties. So there's a lot of close cooperation with PHA. And let me tell you, Rich Zeppeli (ph) does not sit on his laurels, he pushes it every day.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you very 771 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 much. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you, Madam Chair. So that the record's clear, based on Councilmember's Ortiz's comments about Latino communities experience during the '70s with the police, I can assure him that some Irish-Americans standing on the corner at Second Street drinking beer from time to time were told to move by the police. And if not moved too quickly, you often got a rap to the back of your head, sometimes to the back of your legs. That didn't come anywhere close to how bad it would be if your mother or father found out that you didn't do what the police told you to do. I think you get worse than the cop gave you. So I just wanted to make sure it was across all ethnic and racial lines that we were all banged around a little bit, but maybe we were better off for it, I don't know. (Laughter.)

Councilman Kenney

Police chases. And 772 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 I don't know whether this has been covered or not. We seem to be in a bit of a no-win situation here. In Philadelphia it's becoming more and more likely that if you steal a car or leave the scene of a crime that's not involving a gun or some violent act, the chase, the pursuit will more times than not be called off by supervisors on the street. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Mm-hmm.

Councilman Kenney

Granted, we've had terrible situations where being -- just recently a young hard-working pizza delivery man was killed -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right.

Councilman Kenney

-- in an accident. How do we find a balance between really catching these people and not putting our citizenry at risk? And also not only involving the money involved in paying out the settlements on these lawsuits, but the human tragedy of loss of innocent life. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: There are two extremes. One extreme, you have no policy at all and so you wind up like a small Police Department outside of Washington, DC. Actually, it's not, 773 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 it's right up here in the outskirts of, what is it, Montgomery County, John Norris? They just paid out $2 million on a high-speed auto pursuit just on one case. That's where you have an insufficient policy. On the other extreme is what Newark, New Jersey had upwards of five years ago. Under no circumstances would you pursue. So you had teenagers ramming police cars knowing that the cop cars wouldn't chase them, running all over Newark, New Jersey. The balance is, you take into consideration was is the crime committed. Clearly, if it's serious violent felony, you do the pursuit, but again, do it with care. You should stop at red lights. It can't go on forever. There should be a supervisor monitoring it. If it's a situation where there was some shoplifter robs something from a store, jumped in a car and now takes off, as happened up in Montgomery County or in King of Prussia and they come down here and they have an accident in the 18th District over somebody stole a $10 item. It's up to the sergeants or the CIB commanders or 774 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 the district commanders working to monitor and then call them off. And so I know the police officers get displeased when these situations get called off, but that's the way it has to be. We've got a balancing act we've got to do where the danger to the public outweighs the propriety of continuing that pursuit. You have to call it off, you absolutely have to call it off. The very fortunate thing that we have here, especially at night is we have the helicopters. I didn't read the statistics, but a couple times a week helicopters are involved in vehicle pursuits where we call off the ground unit, the chopper takes them, and then when we finally get them into an area, either a dead-end street or some secluded area then we call the ground units. That's been quite effective. But it's an ongoing battle. I mean, I just wind up in federal court of a case that happened before I got here where we paid out, I think it was 1.7 million. We have an obligation to the public for their safety, for their lives, and then a fiduciary responsibility also. 775 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Kenney

This is an issue facing, I assume, every major city in every -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: It's every single city, it's a serious, serious issue.

Councilman Kenney

But you think the helicopters have been a substantial -- COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: And as I say, when I'm wrong, I'll admit it. That's one of the cases where I was wrong. I was not a big fan of the helicopters coming in here because I didn't have such a good experience with them in New York. We've used them entirely different down here.

Councilman Kenney

Let me ask you a lower level of pedestrian and vehicular safety issue. Is there any statistics that we can compare with the number of red light and stop sign moving violations that have been written, say, over the past year or two as compared to maybe the past five years? I notice outside, just outside this building alone outside City Hall, no one pays attention to red lights anymore. They just seem to have very little meaning. And I think in the list of broken window theory problems, this continual violation of law is putting people in 776 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 jeopardy. That one, for example, the northwest corner of City Hall where there's that's blind spot coming around that turn, I mean, someone's going to be killed there or seriously injured. But I notice that not only in Center City, but in just about every neighborhood that red light, stop sign, has very little meaning. Do we ask our people to pay attention to that, to write them up to try to increase in certain areas where we have these complaints? What's the status? COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Tom Nestel. Councilman, yes, we do stay on top of that. As a matter of fact, as part of the COMPSTAT process, one of the -- there is a form that we go over, their activity. We compare the moving violations and look at the number of accidents that have also occurred in those areas. And if their accidents are up, and I don't just mean police accidents, meaning accidents in general, then we want to know what are you doing as far as enforcing the law, because that certainly is a problem related to that.

Councilman Kenney

So that's one of the things the commanders are taken to task for in 777 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 their own districts? If numbers begin to rise, they need to show some way that they're going to solve that problem? COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Absolutely. And we identify top problem corners throughout the City, and that's distributed to the officers and we look to see what kind of enforcement there is in those specific areas.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you. Have your commanders responded to you in any way about the effectiveness of night court in their district, whether they felt that night court program has had any positive effect? It certainly has had a good public relations effect, and I'm wondering whether or not that they've noticed any on the lower-end crime, vandalism, corner-hanging, drinking, public urination issues, whether or not night court has been effective and would you recommend that we try to find ways in having it funded it on a regular basis? COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Again, that topic has also come up at our COMPSTAT meetings, and the majority of the commanders do feel that there are good benefit to having that night court that 778 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 they're able to enforce some of these quality-of-life issues, get those offenders before a judge immediately, and it does appear to have a positive effect.

Councilman Kenney

So the department would support an effort to have this funding institutionalized as long as it doesn't come out of your budget? I'll say that before you do. (Laughter.)

Councilman Kenney

But there would be a supportive attitude about trying to find a way to institutionalize? Because right now what it is is it's staff people volunteering, judges volunteering, and we really need to find some way to fund an institutional court at night. But that would be something you would support? COMMISSIONER NESTEL: Yes, sir.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Commissioner, I think we're going to have to offer you a cot soon. We still have other questions. Councilman Clarke.

Councilman Clarke

Yes, thank you, 779 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Madam President. I'll be brief. I just wanted to get some clarification into my earlier statements with respect to the response by Councilman Ortiz and a discussion with him in the hall and the chairperson of the Police Advisory Commission which I spoke to in the hall, and actually, some comments you made. I'm not asking for us to do what New York did, that was referenced on a couple of occasions. And I'm definitely not asking to elect Giuliani to be our mayor. With respect to the fear issue, I understand that there was -- because I've worked here during Cold Turkey and I understand the concerns associated with what happened in Spring Garden and I don't want our residents to fear the police, but I do want the criminals to fear the police. And with respect to the potential of doing some legislation, I would like to look at it just as we are looking at the rethinking of the accents decree as it relates to abandoned vehicles where the problem has changed so maybe we need to rethink that position. So it's clear, I want everybody to understand I'm not asking for storm trooper tactics, but I just need to see something 780 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 happen. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I didn't suspect that. What I was saying is I understand your frustration. I mean, but, you know, that's kind of the way it is.

Councilman Clarke

I understand. Okay, thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner, crossing guards. How many are we budgeted for this year? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: A thousand.

Councilman Ortiz

You have met and we had public hearings here in which we had representatives from across the City. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Right.

Councilman Ortiz

And from the alliance organizing project. And they identified a series of other corners and other schools that were needed and were desperately seeking to have crossing guards on those corners because of those kids. Obviously, a thousand will not do in order 781 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 to fulfill this. They have identified across the City over 37 corners. And after a study, those 37 corners were justified because of the traffic and the movement and the children. And given the guidelines set up by the Police Department, those corners qualify for a crossing guard. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Mm-hmm.

Councilman Ortiz

The need has grown. What can we do to satisfy those communities and those schools and those parents? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: As you're well aware, sir, we are constrained by budget. We have budgeted 1,000 school crossings that have been analyzed and, you know, allocated as we think in the most appropriate manner. If there is a possibility of going through those one thousand, reviewing them, and finding something that maybe no longer meets the criteria, then reallocating that money or that position --

Councilman Ortiz

We're not asking to eliminate any of the corners because that only would send one neighborhood to complain and we don't want that. We don't want parents from one school in West Philadelphia or North Philly coming 782 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 in here and saying -- I think we have a thousand corners that need crossing guards. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Mm-hmm.

Councilman Ortiz

Parents across the City have identified at least 37 more. What would it cost to have those covered? As every Councilperson here knows, crossing guards are very, very sacred. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I know. I get letter all the time. Each school crossing guards costs a little over $15,000; $15,288.91. So do the math, if you do 37, you know, it is what it is, that's what I costs. You know, in defending our budget, you know, we make these calls all the time. Would I love to have 1,037 or 1,050, I would, but I'd also like to have -- yeah, but there's a limited budget. I'm sure Commissioner Hairston, he would like some more firemen and fir officers and what have you. So you know, it's an issue of prioritizing, managing the budget you're given with, and that's part of the charge. It's not that I'm insensitive to those requests, but there also seems to be an insatiable appetite for cops, 783 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 school crossing guards, a whole host of things.

Councilman Ortiz

Well, it's not insatiable. It's just that these parent groups that have come before us in City Council have kids, And these kids go to schools that have a volume of traffic and accidents have happened. So they have they have come in and they have said to us -- we held hearings last year on crossing guards. You were there. We asked them to go out and identify what corners across the City were the priority ones, and they did their work. They identified 37 corners that meet the criteria set by the Police Department. And that's not a big addition to make to accommodate 37. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: It would cost about 600,000 for the 37 guards on a per annum basis. I mean, I wish I had it in my present budget. I'm being quite frank that there isn't an extra penny in this budget. You know, there are certain other initiatives in regards to crime and quality of life that we use in the budget in addition to grant money. If I got a million dollar grant tomorrow and I could afford to purchase those 37 school crossing guards, I'd do 784 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 it. But right now in the budget I have and the grants money that I have, they're allocated out to the penny.

Councilman Ortiz

Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

Commissioner, are you aware of the 35 corners that the Councilman's referring to? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Yeah, I think we have a list. Commissioner Nestel has the list.

Council President Verna

And has your department looked into the locations to ascertain if a school crossing guard is warranted. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I know Chief Prior and Inspector Deloqua (ph) who was working on this whole issue have looked at them, have done an analysis. What their findings were, I don't have it handy.

Council President Verna

Could you let us know? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I will, but let me just say, I was talking to, for example, yesterday Captain Hailey where an issue of a school crossing guard was injured on duty. So the 785 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 community, I understand to be so was complaining up in the 15th district that there are, you know, 180 kids pass that intersection. Turned out it wasn't, it was 40, but we still put a police officer out there. So when it comes to situations like that, if we find a dangerous intersection, then we will on a short-term basis put police officer out there. When I get back tonight, I will speak to chief Prior and I'll speak to Inspector Deloqua and I will get back to you, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, thank you, Madam President. Commissioner, I was just handed a phone call from a disabled person that is mobile and can get around, and I don't know whether -- and I tried to explain that maybe it's just as a result of the snow storm. In many of our rowhouse, townhouse neighborhoods, I call it a rowhouse, years ago when these homes were built, the off-street parking was designed for one large car and a garage. Now, during in the last few weeks, 786 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 many people have been parking their cars in their driveway, a small car and a second small car and they're overhanging impeding flow of pedestrian traffic in many of the neighborhoods. I know that that is a violation of the motor vehicle code, I believe, and obviously this handicapped person cannot use their wheelchair to get through the neighborhood to get where going because they have to go out into the street to get around the vehicle that's hanging over the sidewalk. I tied to explain that maybe just a temporary situation that because people can't find when there's mounds of snow piled up in the street to find adequate on-street parking and they're trying to take advantage of every little space they have. But if that would continue, would that be something that the district officers would enforce? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: We will. You know, I had this conversation with Mayor Street. We've been very fortunate in the last four years that there's been no snow. But as a result of there being no snow, people forgot what you're supposed to do as far as common courtesies, cleaning the sidewalks, and they almost have to be 787 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 retrained, if you will, because we've gone four years without snow and people forgot what's expected of them with regard to the law and then common neighborly courtesies. It's been interesting to watch. We did issue summonses and you saw the outrage that it caused.

Council President Verna

Particularly in South Philadelphia. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: My phone never stopped ringing. They said, "We haven't got a ticket in four years." Well, that's because there was no snow in four years. So it's an issue.

Councilman Rizzo

When you drive around, you'll see that many people are trying to crunch two cars into a driveway and block the sidewalk. Many of us that are not disabled don't realize what a burden that puts on some of our constituents. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank you, 788 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Madam President. In night court, there was a time, and I understand the legislation. I understand there is some policy before when the police officers rounded people up the judge could ask them -- could take whatever money confiscated --

Council President Verna

Councilwoman, would you mind speaking into your microphone. The stenographer is have difficulty hearing you.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Before the judge could confiscate any monies that the people have when the were shooting craps or suspected of other misdemeanor crimes in night court. And I don't understand why, but the supposedly there's a policy change that they can't do that, that we can't do that anymore? COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: I'm not familiar with that at all.

Councilwoman Blackwell

All right, if you're not sure, then I'll get it from the judge and he will explain it and I'll just contact you after this. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. 789 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)

Council President Verna

Gentlemen, thank you all very much. COMMISSIONER TIMONEY: Thank you, ma'am.

Council President Verna

Philadelphia prisons. (Prison witnesses come forward.)

Council President Verna

Good afternoon, Commissioner. Thank you for your patience. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Good afternoon.

Council President Verna

We do have a copy of your testimony. A copy of it will be given at the stenographer, so if you will abbreviate your testimony, we'd appreciate it. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: I will, Council President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Thank you for the opportunity to be here today to present our brief summary of our budget. With me on my left 790 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 is --

Council President Verna

Excuse me. Just identify yourself for the record. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Yes, Thomas Costello, Commissioner of Prisons. On my left is Deputy Commissioner Grooms, and you know Ms. Granlund, our director of Criminal Justice Population Management. And today also is Ed Szymanski and Dan Rakowski from our business office. During the first half of Fiscal Year 2000, we provided safe and secured housing for a daily average of 6,761 inmates. The 139.4 million operating budget request for FY '01 is based on a projected average daily population of 6891. The Class 100 request increase includes an increase for positions to staff the any new women's detention facility. Also, this increase includes the wage increase that goes into effect March 15, 2000. The FY 200 request includes a net increase of about 6.5 million. This increase is due primarily to the rise in inmate population and the transfer of the behavioral health services to the prison health system at about $4.5 million. 791 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 As stated earlier, there are a number of initiatives spearheaded by the Director of Criminal Justice Population Management, and I believe she did give us a synopsis of all of the initiatives. And I would just like to conclude by saying that although the City's developed strong population management initiatives, these can only be partially mitigate the demand for prison capacity. All participants in the criminal justice system will need to do their part in order to prevent our budget, the Philadelphia Prison System, from expanding beyond the City's tax base. That basically sums up my presentation, Council President. I'll entertain any questions that you may have.

Council President Verna

Thank you, Commissioner. Why has the funding for behavioral health been transferred from the Health Department to your budge? I believe it amounts to $4.5 million. And when did that transfer take place? COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: The transfer is going to take place place for FY 2001, and the reason is to provide complete services for mental 792 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 health with the responsibility of the Prison System in coordination with the Department of Health and other agencies outside of the Prison System. One of the key responsible persons is here today that is coordinating, and that is Deputy Commissioner Press Grooms, so he may have a few comment on that.

Mr. Grooms

Basically, what our concern is is to provide a mental health services and a physical services for the inmate within our care so that primarily we could have one person that reports to the Prison System in dealing with contracts. We would have just one CEO for the system rather than having two different entities.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Mr. Costello, what are some of the population management strategies that you are considering in order for the Prison System to stay within the acceptable limit? COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: I think the strategies are set forth under population control. The Earned Time/Good Time program is continuing, and that has been very effective. Continuing on, all the population management initiatives, and it 793 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 will be ongoing for 2001. I believe that as far as the housing for the future populations, we've addressed that, especially with the construction of the new women's detention facility. That will really give the system the beds that they need to control the population, or at least house them properly.

Council President Verna

Thank you. On -5 of the detail, it reflects a $1.2 million reduction in overtime for the Prison System in FY 2001. How were you able to reduce your overtime by that amount? COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: By simply hiring staff to fill those positions?

Council President Verna

How many staff will you hire? COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Presently we're running into the same problem that the Police Department is running into concerning hiring. We are probably about 80 positions right now.

Council President Verna

How many? COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Eighty that we would like to hire instead of utilizing overtime. We just gave a test and we'll have a list very 794 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 shortly and we hope to hire those positions in order to curtail the amount of overtime for next fiscal year.

Council President Verna

-26 of the detail reflects a savings of over $9.2 million from delay in filling new positions and turnover. What -- COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: I think I'm going to ask one of our business people here. Ed, would you --

Council President Verna

When was the last time a test was given? Why did we wait so long? Is there an existing list? COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: We give testing every year, President Verna. The problem is we exhaust the list his then have to give another test and there's certain delays and parameters we have to work within the system as far as putting a new CO class together, putting them through eight weeks of formal training and another additional four months of on-the-job training.

Council President Verna

How long have these positions been vacant? COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: We have not 795 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 been able to fill all of the positions that were allocated for the department. I don't have -- I don't know the exact number. Ed, do you? Dan.

Mr. Rakowski

My name is Daniel Rakowski, Administrative Service Director. The delay in filling in this case relates mostly to the positions for the new women's detention facility. There are roughly 230 positions in the budget for that. Since it is not scheduled to be open until sometime very late in the fiscal year, we're providing only about two months' worth of funding for that. So the delay in filling is ten months that they will not be on board because the facility will not be open yet.

Council President Verna

That gives us an explanation. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you. Good afternoon, gentlemen. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Good afternoon, Councilwoman. 796 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Brown

of your testimony here under educational services. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Yes.

Councilwoman Brown

It has here that 150 inmates -- well it shows a decrease, but it also speaks to why the decrease in the number of inmates who have received their GED. What is the total population? So to get a sense of what of the population is indeed participating in educational kinds of activities. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: The total population today is about 6750. We have about 6450 within our facilities today.

Councilwoman Brown

Opportunities like the GED, is that voluntary. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Yes. It is only mandatory for our juvenile-aged direct file 19 certified population that are 17 or younger.

Councilwoman Brown

For someone who -- well, part of my career was in juvenile justice, and at that point you're able to help young people understand the value for a GED, but do you officer any inducements to help inmates understand that without that, there's very little hope. 797 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: We certainly encourage them in every aspect of the classification, starting from the initial classification at intake. So they are encouraged if they do not have their GED to participate in the programs. That's also affiliated with other programs that we have that may not require a GED or a high school diploma, but we encourage them to attain it in order to pursue that particular vocation.

Councilwoman Brown

We know that the library a few years back endured, some might say, criticism that was due them with regards to the matter in which or don't handle their books. Do you have something in place where the Prison System at least takes advantage of the overabundance of books that the Free Library gets rid of every year. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: We do not have a leisure library, but we do not have -- currently, we are not utilizing the hardback books. Most of those books are hardback covers because of the contraband use that they have used the books for in previous years. 798 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilwoman Brown

I see. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Because they do use books for contraband, we restrict right now to the soft covers. However, the Commissioner may want to expand on that point, we are looking to change that policy and try to at least incorporate a portion of those books to the Prison System.

Councilwoman Brown

Please do, because again on , second paragraph, you speak to how 80 percent of the -- I'm so inclined to say young people, but in this case it's inmates, who come into the system are former substance abusers and given the reality that you've just outlined, how are you going to reconcile that? You said the deputy could speak to that in greater detail. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Well, I wanted him to at least talk about the possibility of the use o hardback books.

Mr. Grooms

If I may, we've had some discussions with all the wardens. As you know, five major institutions that, and of course, of the major institutions, several of them are medium and minimum custody. So what we're entertaining as the start-up is to have hardback books placed 799 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 in those minimum custody institutions.

Councilwoman Brown

I see.

Mr. Grooms

And hopefully, if that works out fine, and we think it will, we can also put the hardback books into the maximum security institutions. But we certainly want to do that as a pilot program in minimum custody institutions first.

Councilwoman Brown

I'll certainly be interested in seeing how that goes. And so next year, I'll have a follow-up question on that.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to address an issue that I get lots of people asking me the question, why in the City of Philadelphia we don't utilize prisoners like other counties do, Montgomery is one that I know that use prisoners to pick up trash, debris, clean strewn lots. I tell many of the people, giving the best answer that I can, that it's a 800 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 labor town and it's difficult to use prisoners to do certain work that other people do. But could you address do we do anything? Do we shovel snow with some of them or do we have -- could you explain why we don't do what Montgomery County does? COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Basically because of the labor contracts. We are restricted from utilizing inmate labor to do bargain work. We do have various crews that go out in specific areas, such as cleaning the park, things of that nature, very close to the prison campus. And we once in a while we do have work release inmates who are used for special community details, but the main reason why we do not use this labor extensively is because of the union contracts.

Councilman Rizzo

If the unions would allow in certain areas -- an example, Fairmount Park is in desperate condition when it comes to clearing bridle paths and downed trees, and I've talked --and I won't name names. I've talked to some folks in the parks that would just welcome having some help dealing with some of the timber that's blocked trails and help restoring some of 801 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 trails. If the labor unions would agree to allow whatever is necessary to do that, could you accommodate them? COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: We could accommodate them, however, there would be cost a cost affixed to that because inmates cannot work unsupervised. So the average detail would be about -- for a minimum, low minimum, or a 10 community custody level inmate work group, we 11 would need at least one staff member for 12 approximately 12 to 15 to supervise them properly 13 if they were classified and cleared to work in the 14 community. So there would be some cost, but 15 again, the obstacle here is the labor contracts.

Councilman Rizzo

When a person is charged with DUI they have to one weekend a month report for an overnighter, or I'm not sure exactly. Have what do you do with those folks? COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: We have a group of right now of about 35 to 45 weekenders who come in on Friday night and stay the weekend. They work a normal work week during the week, and most of them are DUIs. And actually, during the day they are given work details in work details around 802 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 the grounds of the prison system. So that during the day they are given the special details to work. They stay for two nights, and then on Sunday night they're discharged and they go home and go back to work on Monday morning.

Councilman Rizzo

So obviously, you've been able to deal with your union.

Mr. Costello

Well, use them around the prison complex. The problem is outside of the prison complex. As long as they're working within a prison facility, it's not an issue. In fact, one of the areas that we've used them for is to keep the area outside of Holmesburg clean and inside, too. Even though that facility is inactive, we store many things in that facility, and it needs to be maintained. We used weekenders basically to do that.

Ms. Granlund

Councilman, I'd like to address that issue.

Council President Verna

Excuse me, please identify yourself for the record.

Ms. Granlund

I'm sorry, President Verna. Dianne Granlund. Part of the restrictive intermediate 803 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 punishment program is a court-mandated community service component of approximately 100 or 200 hours, depending upon what the offense is that you were accused of. These people, although, they are not inmates, are required to perform this community service. And this community service component is dedicated to Fairmount Park. So that's already in place; it's just not inmates. But we are already working with people in Fairmount Park.

Councilman Rizzo

I'm talking beyond just picking up papers at valley Green. I'm talking about at some significant work which the park -- and I spend a lot of time walking in the park. Most trails are blocked with trees, and what they're doing now is just trying to do the minimum cut and just kick over to the side a piece of that timber. I was told that if this could be worked out, obviously, with the agreement of the labor unions and the prison system, that they could use as many people supervised to perform these, the park would be a better place.

Ms. Granlund

Currently there are -- well, there are Risk Management issues evidently 804 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 with allowing either inmates or parolees to use such things as chain saws.

Councilman Rizzo

Well, I'm not -- I'm talking working with people that have that talent. I'm talking about some of labor, picking up a piece of wood.

Ms. Granlund

Sure. And I think that if you look at the community service component, you're going to find that people doing that.

Councilman Rizzo

Okay.

Ms. Granlund

Now, if they're not doing enough, I would encourage Fairmount Park people to call me.

Councilman Rizzo

I constantly -- again, the buzzer's going off. People refer to Montgomery County and they deal with the same labor unions in many cases that we deal with, that that has been very effective. 422, if you drive up there on a Sunday, you'll see trash bags lined up for miles that those inmates have picked up and waiting for collection on Monday morning. And people ask me constantly why we don't do that. And again, I knew part of the answer, but I think it's something that should be pursued and maybe 805 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 there'd be some agreement between labor to utilize some of those folks and with Risk Management. Because if it works other places, it should be able to work here. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Commissioner, in that vein, several years ago Councilmembers had visited the prison, and that was before your appointment. It was said at that time that there was a possibility that the inmates could in the print shop do much of our stationary. Was there ever done, to the best of your knowledge? COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: We have a very sophisticated print shop and available to perform those jobs, quote/unquote, when you're ready to utilize PhilaCorps (ph) for that.

Council President Verna

Has the City ever taken advantage of that, to the best of your knowledge? COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Yes. We have several contracts. Dan, did you want to expand on that? 806 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

Very briefly, Dan. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Dan Rakowski oversees the PhilaCorps operations.

Mr. Rakowski

Quite simply, the prison print shop has for years printed stationary and forms for many, many City departments.

Council President Verna

Really?

Mr. Rakowski

We do probably close to a million dollars worth of business a year in printing, and very shortly they'll be able to do the gold seal as well as the standard. But we do printing for most City departments, and Council can just give us a buzz.

Council President Verna

Very glad to hear that. Thank you very much. Are there any other questions? (No further questions.)

Council President Verna

Thank you very much. COMMISSIONER COSTELLO: Thank you, President Verna.

Council President Verna

Fire Department. 807 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 (Fire Department witnesses come forward.)

Council President Verna

Our very patient commissioner. Commissioner, we do have a copy of your testimony, so I will give it to the stenographer. It will be printed in it's complete form if you simply want to abbreviate your remarks. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Sure. Good afternoon. I'm commissioner Harold Hairston from the Fire Department. With me to my right is Deputy Commissioner William J. McNulty, and to my left is the Budget Officer Dave Beatrice. Our General Fund calls for $139,963,217. Our Aviation Fund calls for 4,032,400. Grants Fund of $551,893, which really accounts for salary and benefits for five employees which total $268,800, and the remainder is for supplies and EMS equipment for $283,093. That brings for a total of $144,547,510. That's an increase of $1,396,027 over our previous year's budget. That really accounts for a $1,122,027 which really go for salaries, raises, and so forth. That's uniformed 808 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 members got a percent raise as of 9/15/99, and our non-uniformed members received a percent 4 raise on 3/15 of 2000. And we added $240,000 for some additional sets of bunker gear. We automatically buy bunker gear every year. What we're doing is adding this so that we can really kind of speed up our replacement. A set of bunker gear really costs $960 per set, so that's going to give us roughly 450 sets that will be replaced in a year. We need to replace about 1800 sets over the next four years or so. It's going to be state-of-the-art, it's a little bit lighter, and a lot more protective. For staffing, this budget really calls for a total of 2493 persons for our General fund. The Aviation Fund calls for an additional 70. And our Grants Fund gives us five more people for a total of 2568 employees. That present staffing really calls for 40 people that we just started as of Monday, so it gives us a total of $2,565 members. We've been very fortunate over the last few years to see fire deaths come down. If you look at the calendar year, we reduced the 42 809 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 compared to 46 over the previous year. Structure fires have also come down. They've decreased from 2859 in FY '98 to 2797 in FY '99. Our medical runs have continued to go up, though. More and more that's what year responding to. They've increased over last year to 165,234. We project and we hope that we can keep these fire deaths down because right now this month they're kind of out of control. We've had five so far that have been due to arson, which is very, very difficult to control because that's really using fire as a weapon. We had two people that died from fires that were left over from last year and other six really died this year. Our medical runs continue to go up, and we project that in FY '01, they will probably be up to about 174, 175,000. Our EMS revenue has continued to go up. It was probably going to stay just about the same as it was this past year, though, to somewhere around 13.2 million. If you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them. 810 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

I've read your testimony. I personally don't have any questions, but I do have a comment. I just want to applaud you and your department for doing an absolutely fabulous job, and I congratulate you on your reappointment. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Thank you very much.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you. Good afternoon. Commissioner, I know you've been a commissioner now for a number of years and you've been a fire fighter for probably three or four times longer. You've taken a little bit of grief in the newspaper and otherwise about this issue of Hepatitis C. I know that the Mayor stepped forward and made some commitments financially, which I know you've applauded that happenstance and that we're going to try to move forward in deal with this. The one issue that keeps coming up that I need your input on or your viewpoint is an issue we raised yesterday with Risk Management as it relates to fire fighters who 811 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 are infected and the process by which they go through to determine whether or not it was work related. Risk Management has indicated through their testimony that they start out trying to at least give the employee the benefit of the doubt and try to work their way through this process and if any possibility of giving leeway to deem this work-related, considering the difficulty that the employee would have in proving it over a 10- or 12- or 15-year period when they may have contracted it and when it really starts to become evident. What's your on this whole thing and where do you stand and what's your department's policy on this issue? COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Well, a few years ago, and I guess the person who can probably give you the most detailed information about this is the person who is right to my right, which is Bill McNulty. It used to be that a large part of his job when he was a personnel director was to prepare information for the Commissioner for people that wanted to make a claim for service connection, and that went on for years. But people in the traditional sense are not making a 812 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 claim for service connection because that really falls under Regulation 32. That would be a simple case for me, because the cases that come before me primarily for Regulation 32, unfortunately, deals with people who are severely injured on duty, which is very obvious career-ending kind of things, or unfortunately where somebody dies. It's relatively simple, they die on the fire ground, I've got witnesses to it, very easy for me to make the claim and so for. It's a little more difficult making it to the state or the federal government and so forth. As far as Hepatitis C is concerned, it's very, very difficult to deal with something that really does not come before you, because nobody is asking me to make that kind of adjudication. Nobody has asked me at all to come before me to make their claim. What they've asked to do is to treat me like a funnel, which is for them to make a claim, notify the employer, which is me, and then for me to pass that information on to Risk Management. And so they go through a different process there. I believe that based on the way 813 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 everything has happened with this that what you're going to see is a very, very clear process that really will enable people to err on the part of the employee. I believe that that's what will happen. I believe what happens with these claims, very frankly, is that they're going to fall into three categories: Ones that are going to be very clear because we will have done everything that we could to protect the employee and the employee has a bona fide contagious disease contact and we're going to have a record of it. We're going to have others that clearly, because of the information that comes forward through this process where Risk Management is able to get information to determine based on some basic criteria that the person either had it before and you find out through getting the information. Or there will be others where it won't be clear-cut, it could go either way.

Councilman Kenney

The fortunate part about it, very frankly, is that there's so much attention that has been brought to this that I believe that a person, a referee in this case, will probably err 814 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 on the part of employee. Now, that's probably going to be a difficult process, but that's really what happens. The other half of this, very frankly, really deals with how to look at dealing with the health plan. Because there's some employees that clearly are spending a lot of money out of their pockets and they need help. I believe that's why the Mayor stepped forward gave that money. I believe that there will be a reasonable process that happens out of that where they will be able to work with the unions and come up with some criteria that allows for people to be able to pay for this. That's an imperfect world at best, though, with all of these things because it's the kind of thing you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. Nobody knows when they're really going to be affected with it. From my own personal standpoint, I want the fire fighters to get every bit of help that they can possibly get. And whatever that means -- I don't really care who they get it from, I don't really care how they got it, from a personal standpoint. They have it, they belong to us, they go out every single day 815 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 and do something that I consider very courageous. I believe that they will continue to do that. But, you know, this is not the kind of job where you make a tremendous amount of money, but you do make a tremendous commitment. So somebody has to decide as to whether or not that commitment really is worth something in terms of dollars and cents, and that's what that really comes down to.

Councilman Kenney

Well, I'm glad you had an opportunity to express it for the record and publically, and you've done so eloquently. One of the questions I have is the issue the sick time and vacation time while this process kind of moves forward. And I know maybe Risk Management can kind of -- if they have some jurisdiction in this area can kind of give some input. I know a lot of people that are going through this process of determination and dealing with the disease or at the same time going through a period of using up whatever available sick time there is as a result of the complications and the reaction to some of the medication they're taking maybe even into their vacation time and some of their accumulated comp time and those things. And 816 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 I'm wondering whether or not there's going to be some way to, once it's determined that this was in fact work-related, to restore or give to credit for that. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: We have meticulous records. When I tell you we have meticulous record, I think you can go to the bank with them. We can tell you who used sick time, when they used it, how much they used, why they used it. I believe because of the records that we have that should it come to a point where we are to return time to people, that will be a relative live painless process. What happens prior to that, though, is the fact that people do get ill. And while they're ill, a determination is made at present by their own personal doctor in most cases, a doctor decides whether or not they can work or not. What I've been able to do in many cases is if I had a job available, whether or not it was sitting on the desk as close as I can come to not feather bedding, as close as I can come to not doing that, I have allowed people to do other things. I plan to continue to do that unless someone stops me from doing that. So I'm going to 817 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 be as compassionate as I possibly can in order to see that that happens. I will continue to do that as long as the budget allows me to do that. Now, when it comes down to returning the time, that will be a decision that won't be made by me, but be made by others. And when it is, I certainly will return the time to anybody who uses it for that purpose.

Councilman Kenney

Fine. Thank you very much for your explanation.

Council President Verna

Commissioner, thank you very much. I think we have aired that issue out and I appreciate your honesty. Thank you. COMMISSIONER HAIRSTON: Thank you.

Council President Verna

Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)

Council President Verna

And thank you for waiting so long. The next department is Information Technology. (Information technology witnesses come forward.) 818 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record. We do have a copy of your testimony. A copy of it will be printed in full. If you would simply abbreviate your remarks, we'd appreciate it.

Mr. Anderson

Good afternoon, Council President Verna and members of City Council. I am Brian Anderson, Chief Information Officer for the City of Philadelphia. With me here today are key senior members of my staff Karl Bortnick who is our chief program manager; Rich Congo, who is our deputy CIO; and Jacqueline Henry, who is our personnel and administrative officer. The Mayor's Office of Information Services is requesting a total of $12,893,485 from the general refund for Fiscal Year 2001. From the water fund, we are requesting $596,872 in Class 100 for 12 full-time positions; $268,364 in Class 200 for hardware and software maintenance; and $26,967 for materials supplies and equipment. With the Fiscal Year 2000 budget, we will continue to enhance service and support for the City's 819 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 central and departmental computer systems and expand our use of new technologies such as the Internet, mobile computing network based applications, analytical reporting software, and GIS mapping software. In Fiscal Year 2000 we have a number of accomplishments that we'd like to note. One major accomplishment was the year 2000 readiness initiative. Through this initiative we had a citywide assessment of the risk that was imposed to the City by the year 2000 problem. Through our assessment, we identified a number of risks that could disrupt or actually fail critical City services. With that information, we initiated several projects. We upgraded over 400 computer systems citywide. This upgrade not only minimized the risk of disruption to a central City services, but it as well prepared us for future use of information technology and there were a lot of lessons to be learned from the way we approached and managed that initiative. Other key accomplishments include our massive data center upgrade. For the first time, the City actually has a brand-new mainframe 820 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 computer that is sizeable enough to support citywide information, technology, improvements, for the next several years, Many years going forward. A network infrastructure upgrade. We made substantial upgrades to our City's network infrastructure. The City of Philadelphia has the largest integrated network in the country for municipal government. Other cities like New York do not have an integrated network where agencies can communicate with each other. This is another major infrastructure implementation that will prepare us for information technology investments in the future. In addition to the upgrades that we made, we continue to the support and development of citywide business software applications, including several GIS implementations. Another significant implementation and set of activities that we accomplished in the year 2000 was electronic government. As everyone knows, electronic government is changing the way we work, changing our economy, and as many of know, we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg in 821 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 terms of what it can do for government and what it can do for our City. Gov Web sites. Some of the Web sites included a Police Department Web site, a new procurement Web site that provides procurement services to the citizens as well as the fit and free Web site in which in one week we received over, I think the number was 50,000 hits. So that was -- it was a massive amount of people coming in to visit that Web site. It's just a demonstration of what a powerful medium that can be going forward in the future for communicating City Council information as well as other government information. In Fiscal Year 2000, we have a number of initiatives that we plan to complete. One is the electronic initiatives around electronic government services. Gov more useful to citizens to make upgrade information to make it more current.

Mr. Anderson

Beyond providing extending City government to services, we think there's a lot of value in providing more complete and accurate 822 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 information to citizens, more useful information to citizens. So we have several developments under. That we plan to implement a new citywide e-mail upgrade. We've actually begun that initiative and we plan it in FY 2001. This new upgrade will make our central e-mail system more reliable and stable, and we'll also offer new services such as video conferencing and other things that will be built right within our existing network infrastructure. We plan to continue to expand our network. We have major initiatives including networking all of our school systems so that our children we can have educational Internet service that will be provided to our schools. We also plan to continue to expand our geographic information systems. The City of Philadelphia has been recognized as a leader in its use geographical information systems. There are many applications in our Water Department, our Streets Department as well as our Licenses and Inspections Department. One new initiative that we plan to implement is a data warehousing initiative. The 823 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 City has a massive amount of data and information. We plan to use data warehousing technology to make this information intelligent so that we can use it to make business decisions going forward. Key initiatives include our financial data warehouse so that everyone can analyze their budget and we can actually see relationships to contracts and budget information. Other initiatives that we look to implement include data warehouse initiatives in our social services programs so that we can see how residents or citizens go through different services, from our prison systems to our shelters through other human services agencies. One key initiative in our effort to enhance the awareness of 21st century skills throughout the City, we plan to implement 400 computers throughout our recreation centers or Class A recreation centers that will provide computer learning centers. We've implemented it on Martin Luther King's birthday. We actually implement two of those centers where we provided ten computers and created computer labs where children can come and log on and get education 824 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 through CD-ROM educational software. We also plan to make these centers connected -- give them connections to the Internet so that they can get other education as well.

Council President Verna

What are the two centers?

Mr. Anderson

The two centers are the Martin Luther King recreation center and -- what was the other? I'll have to get back to you on the other center.

Council President Verna

Okay.

Mr. Anderson

Madam President, this concludes my testimony. I want to thank City Council for your ongoing support, and I will be glad to answer any questions that you may have.

Council President Verna

Thank you, Mr. Anderson. Over the last eight years the City has made tremendous improvements in its information systems. Has the Administration asked your agency to assess the information systems at the School District and at PGW?

Mr. Anderson

I have not been asked to assess their systems. We have had a coordinated effort related to Y2K, the Y2K initiative. 825 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Council President Verna

I would request that you offer services to both the School District and PGW and present an action plan to the Administration and City Council, say, within the next six weeks. Do you think that's doable?

Mr. Anderson

I would have to get back to you on that. I think it's something that we can potentially do.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.

Councilman Rizzo

Mr. Anderson, you went through a list of many things that you plan to do in the next fiscal year and your budget is approximately close to $13 million. Are there any projects that you really -- and I know you Information System people would like to do a lot of things and all at once, but are there any projects that you really need to get done, like one that's close to my heart, back-up systems and things like that, that you're not able to get done because $13 million isn't enough? Did you have to postpone anything or any major -- these hearings are to put you on the spot, so are there things that you really need to make this City move 826 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 forward in the area? Like the president just asked, if you could assess PGW and assess the School District, well, you might not have the people or the money or the talent to be able to make a first-class assessment or something else would have to suffer as a result of you assessing those two areas. Could you tell, me are there some things -- and I'm hearing that there are some things that you really would like to get cooking here that maybe million isn't enough to make it 12 all happen and you guys take the hit every time 13 something doesn't work, the e-mail takes two hours to go from Point A to Point B or a week. And you mentioned that you're upgrading the e-mail system, and I'm pleased to hear that. But can you tell me, is there some things that you really need to get done to make this a first class system?

Mr. Anderson

Councilman, there are a number of things. I think the major thing that is that it is a challenge for our agency within our target budget to keep up with the demand and growth of the citywide use of information technology, in particular with regard to the support of our network systems. When 500 new 827 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 computers and locations are added to our network, the system doesn't allow for an increase in our target budget to support all of that, and we have a number of people that are working very hard to try to keep up, but if I had a chance to pick one project that we could get more support on, that would be additional funding to support the growing needs and growth citywide that corresponds to the growth. If 500 computers are added, we should get budget dollars to support that new upgrade.

Councilman Rizzo

That makes a lot of sense. We just can't be dumping requests on your operation and expect you to make it work properly or perform well if you don't get the additional money. And I don't know, maybe Charlie McPherson or the President would know if other departments have a similar situation as they grow, and your growth is sometimes not known, especially right now with the change in this Administration. You're getting new employees that were never here before and you're expected to provide them the equipment that they need to do their work, but you're not given the money to make it work. So I don't know, Madam President, Madam 828 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 Chair, I know Mr. anderson indicated that he's being asked to add computers, he's being asked to add a lot of things as the weeks and months go by, but he's not given the additional money to support that growth. That's not right. And I'd rather not have a computer at all if it's not going to work well. Like upgrades to equipment, I'm hearing people constantly complaining. As a member of City Council, if I'm not able to have good equipment, I sometimes wonder what it must be like to be in the trenches and try to work every day for this government. If a member of City Council has a computer that they tell me that those people put in the trash at home. So I think what we need to -- we need to know how monies can be added to -- Charlie, we need to know how monies can be added to Brian Anderson's budget when 500 new computers are requested and dumped on him and then he doesn't have the money to make it work.

Council President Verna

Mr. Dubow is here. He'll respond.

Councilman Rizzo

Okay. I didn't know who. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're 829 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 welcome. (Rob Dubow comes forward.)

Council President Verna

And if this is your way of telling us that you need a new computer, we will take note of it. (Laughter.)

Council President Verna

Okay, I think we got the message.

Mr. Dubow

I'm sorry I didn't hear the question.

Councilman Rizzo

I have to repeat that all over again? The question is this, and is not a planted question, this is just a question. Mr. Anderson's organization has a budget of close to $13 million. The Street Administration's got a lot of ideas in changing government, the way it looks, adding people, adding offices. He is asked to provide government 200 new computers, 500 new computers. Well he's expected to do that with $13 million. He's not given a budget that has the ability to grow when he's asked to grow IS system. That funny look on your face, didn't I explain that? 830 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Dubow

No, I actually -- I understood the question. I'm just not really sure that that -- (Mr. Dubow confers with Mr. Anderson.)

Councilman Rizzo

You can whisper into the microphone.

Mr. Dubow

Obviously the first approach is that Brian will try to manage his resources to meet our needs and then we'll work with him to look and look how his budget can accommodate that.

Councilman Rizzo

I just can't figure how a man walks in here with a budget and then is expected to add 500 or 200 or 300 computers and expect to make it work with the budget that he came in before those 500 computers were added to the IS system. And we're just throwing numbers around. I don't even know if 500 --

Mr. Dubow

I mean, I don't know where the 500 number comes from.

Councilman Rizzo

Well, Mr. Anderson made a statement. You want to make it again since Mr. Dubow wasn't here? 831 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Anderson

Well, the 500 was just an example of what's happening when departments add to the network and add users and employees and we buy new computers. We have -- you know, the mechanism we have is developing a justification statement in the budget to try to get the extra funds that we feel is needed to properly support this growth in the network. And you asked me if I had a chance to get something funded what would I get, and I feel that that is our biggest challenge, keeping up with the demand that employees have across the City for support of this network and all of the software systems that are required to run it.

Councilman Rizzo

Mr. Dubow, do you have it now?

Mr. Dubow

Yes. I'll still go back to my initial statement which was -- I mean, we don't -- the 500, I think, was just an example that Brian was giving for potential.

Councilman Rizzo

Could be a thousand.

Mr. Dubow

Could me a thousand, could be 100, could be 50, could be 10. And I don't think we're going to add money on speculation. I 832 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 think we want to look at where his budget goes, what needs actually are and where we see him now is the budget he has to accommodate his needs.

Councilman Rizzo

That's not what he said. He said -- and I'm not going to speak for him. He said he would like to have a system where when there's growth that the money is there to cover the growth. He's not asking you just to throw a pile of money at him. He wants a mechanism that if he has to add a thousand computers that he doesn't have to do it and put something else on hold to support those 500 computers or 900 computers or 50 computers. He wants to have a process that pays him for that extra support.

Mr. Dubow

Well, there is a process. And if he gets to the point where he really needs to add 500 computers and that becomes clear to us and becomes clear that he can't accommodate that within his budget, then we go through the transfer ordinance process. But don't put the money in his budget up-front in case something happens later.

Councilman Rizzo

Again, you didn't hear what I said. I said I didn't want to just a 833 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 pile of money or transfer ordinance, I would like to recommend a mechanism that's there to support his need. If he has a need to service or support 200 computers, then it doesn't require a transfer ordinance, that there's some business transaction that adds the money that he needs to his budget.

Mr. Dubow

I'm not sure that we're -- I guess we're obviously not communicating right here. What I'm say is I think that what his budget now meets his needs as we know them. If nine months from now his needs are different, he has a mechanism.

Councilman Rizzo

I would suggest the two of you talk and get back to me because I understand it differently than you do.

Council President Verna

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Good afternoon.

Mr. Anderson

Good afternoon.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. I'm 45 days old here in Council. Do 834 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 you have a pamphlet or a description of services and information that your office provides that you make available to the public who is simply interested in the work of your office?

Mr. Anderson

Yes, we do.

Councilwoman Brown

Could you please make one available to the Chair and she'll see that I or we receive that? On under executive direction, you have budgeted a position called architectural standards. Can you explain what that is?

Mr. Anderson

Yes, I can. One of the many things that we're challenged to do in the City is we implement technology across the City, we need to make sure that it's implemented in a structured and standardized way. To do that, we need a group of people that can go out look at new technology and to find those standards. So that position is for someone that will come in and do that.

Councilwoman Brown

And then finally, I'm always encouraged and pleased when I see efforts underway that enhance or augment educational activities. So the 400 computers that 835 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 you plan on putting in Class A recreation centers is great news. How do you plan to maximize their use in terms of training of either Recreation Department personnel who then train young people and just the general maintenance of computers when we know what comes with a lot of young people using that type of equipment?

Mr. Anderson

That's a very good question. When we looked at the program, we obviously wanted more than just putting computers in a room. There are several programs that we're looking at from the third ever had to the sixth grade we have a whole library of educational software that's available for kids to come in and use. For the adults, as you probably have heard, one of the fastest grow industries is the industries of information technology. There are over 500,000 jobs available currently. The prediction is by the end of 2001 there will be over a million jobs available. There's a major shortfall in skills related to these jobs. We need to create an awareness about these jobs. When you ask children what they want to be when they grow up, none of them say computer 836 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 technologist. There's no awareness about this new industry and these new jobs and this new market that's growing. When you ask what their driver is, they say money. When you ask 12th graders what driver is, they say money, money, money. So one of the things we wanted to do is make, number one, a better awareness about where the industry is going. We have a major change going on. The other thing we want to do is there are computer-based training programs that we would like to implement as well as mentoring in workshops. And we have some success in other areas where we've had high school student going through these programs. Actually, I had two working on Web development team that came out of the School District's twilight program. But we'd like to set up these certification programs in the recreation centers.

Councilwoman Brown

So when you say "we," you mean your department handling all those types of activities?

Mr. Anderson

We are working with the Recreation Department.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. 837 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Mr. Anderson

We are also identifying partners that include IBM, Microsoft, as well as Cisco and some of the other major corporations that have a vested interest in developing skills, IT skills.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Thank you. Are there any other questions? (No further questions.)

Council President Verna

Thank you very much.

Mr. Anderson

Thank you.

Council President Verna

The next department is the Records Department to be heard. (Records Department witnesses come forward.)

Council President Verna

Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Joan Decker, Records Commissioner. And with me today is Jeanne Reedy, Acting Deputy Commissioner. I know you 838 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005 have my testimony, so I will not be reading it.

Council President Verna

You will summarize, I believe. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Three short comments. We have no backlog. We recorded more than 204,000 documents last year, more than any other county in Pennsylvania. We returned --

Council President Verna

Isn't this the first time in years that you're current? COMMISSIONER DECKER: This is probably several years ago. I think a year ago, yes, actually two years now that we've had no backlog. We returned documents with an average of three days, which is really a dramatic improvement in comparison to the early mid-90s and our performance really exceeds the performance of other Pennsylvania counties. This past year Fiscal '99 we collected approximately $108 million and that included transfer taxes, recording fees, and copies of documents. I'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have.

Council President Verna

I think it's wonderful. Congratulations. 839 2/15/00, Operating Budget, Bill 000005

Councilman Ortiz

No backlog? COMMISSIONER DECKER: No backlog.

Councilman Ortiz

No more shoe boxes? COMMISSIONER DECKER: No more shoe boxes. Our customers are very happy.

Council President Verna

Any questions from members of the committee?

Councilman Ortiz

Good news.

Council President Verna

That's very good news. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Good way to end the day, right?

Council President Verna

Congratulations, and thank you for your patience. Sorry you had to wait so long. COMMISSIONER DECKER: Thank you.

Council President Verna

The committee will stand in recess until tomorrow, Wednesday, February 16th at 9:00 a.m. Thank you very much. (Adjourned at 6:00 p.m.) - - - 840 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, February 15, 2000, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE BILL NO. 000005 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter