And we had this discussion prior to COVID, but once COVID happened, it kind of crystallized in our mind that we did not need all the space that we had to do.
And we had this discussion prior to COVID, but once COVID happened, it kind of crystallized.
And that's when we went out and discussed with Larry what we thought we could do to repurpose this building or what we thought we could use to put on this property.
And how many trucks do you usually park there and how much activity is on site?
So prior to COVID, we had 30 employees in the office.
We have 25 service trucks that were in and out.
We had salesmen that are going in and out daily.
We had multiple vendors coming into the office, and we also had deliveries every day, including UPS and FedEx and other transport carriers.
All right.
And are you familiar with the Germantown Avenue commercial corridor that's within a block or less of this site?
Yes, I am.
And what's the nature of the vacancies and the occupancies?
Well, currently, there's been a number of vacancies and they continue to grow, specifically across the street.
The bank that is directly across from my property has already sent out a notice that they are leaving as of June 1st.
And if you drive up and down Germantown Avenue, you'll see multiple vacancies of commercial and retail properties.
All right. So when you met with Larry and you spoke with brokers and other people who are familiar with the market, what was the decision to do this as a residential development?
Well, the consensus, and that includes both my desire also, was that the best option for this site would be townhomes.
And you intend to live in one of them, correct?
That's correct.
All right. And you have met with the various neighbors and you've been involved with this very deliberate process through the Community Association.
And we're not going to get into the details, but we have submitted letters of support from your neighbors?
So back in the beginning of the project, we thought we might want to do this.
I reached out to all the contiguous neighbors that touched my property and had discussions and shared the plans with them.
And all but one agreed that they supported and they had no opposition to it.
Subsequent to that, the most closest neighbor, which you'll see on that screenshot, which owns 14, 16, 18 to 20 West Highland Avenue,
sent a supporting letter into the CACA community board supporting this project.
along with Killian's Hardware and a number of other ones.
We also, at the time, for the ZBA zoning requirements,
sent out 65 letters to neighbors within 250 feet
and asked for any feedback or discussions,
and we left it open-ended at that point in January
to please call me if you had any questions or concerns.
I did not hear from anyone until we had our first meeting
with the community association.
All right, and finally, in case I forgot,
you heard my testimony and you heard Larry's testimony?
Yes, that's correct.
All right. Were they both accurate? And would you adopt them as your own?
Yes, I would.
All right. I have nothing further, Mr. O'Reilly.
Thank you.
Thank you. Before we move to Mr. Clinton, is there any questions for either of the Mr. Primavera's witnesses?
From the board?
Okay. Mr. Clinton, you're on.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I'd like to ask some number of questions of Mr. McKeown, please, first, if he's still on mute it.
Mr. McKeown, please unmute.
Hello, Mr. McKeown.
This is Henry Clinton.
Can you hear me?
I can.
All right.
So I'm representing the 220 neighbors in Chestnut Hill area and 20 near neighbors.
and your neighbors, I define as the planning commission defines those who live within 250 feet
of the subject property. So can you go to slide number 20?
All right. So thank you. That's slide number 20. And the building, the stone building is to the
right. It's a two-story building with a bit of an addition on the rear, correct?
And you've lived in the area over 20 years?
I think you said 21 years?
31 years.
31, my mistake.
And you've seen this building over time.
Would you consider this building a well-maintained building?
Would you consider this building still usable in its current state?
Well, isn't there an ongoing business operation right now?
Oh, yes.
Yes, yes.
and that business operation could continue if the current owner or anyone else wanted to correct
well the current owner has already spoken out as to how this building is not meeting
is evolving business needs okay that's a little bit different from my question
okay that's a little bit different from my question though my question is that this building
My question is that this building is a serviceable building.
is a serviceable serviceable building and could be used by the current owner if he wanted to
or someone else if they wanted to use the building in its existing condition correct
for some use i guess i would guess yeah okay and in the ca1 zoning district there are a number of
uses correct like would you agree that business and professional offices is used for ca1
I'd have to look at the list to see what's what's allowed there yeah how about no that's true
sole proprietors are also permitted in in CA1 you agree with that
yes would you agree that financial services are also uh look you're you're reading from
the list of uses so obviously those are lists those are uses that are permitted in the CA1
zoning district okay i just want to make sure you agree with me on that um although ca1 as a zoning
district is really uh in terms of auto related commercial use uh is speaks to a previous time
in chestnut hill certainly okay um so it is a bit of a it is a holdover from an earlier time
but but those uses i just described are allowed are permitted in there but they
Those uses could also be permitted if the parcel was rezoned.
The city plan has a plan for the rezoning of the entire area.
It happens that CA1 was not proposed for rezoning.
Right, but all I'm trying to establish is there's other uses that this building could be used for which are permitted within the CA1 zone, correct?
Okay. Now, you haven't submitted any engineering report indicating that this building has any structural issues, correct?
We have not done that. The west facade, as you just look at it visually, is that stone wall is, there's some curvature in that wall, if you look at it.
For Mr. McKeown, as we talked today, you don't have any engineering report about that.
And you have no document indicating that this building is in need of any type of structural repair, correct?
Correct.
And would you agree that this building could be adapted as is to residential use?
actually no um not because partially because of the uh fact that one wall one entire wall of the
building uh would not be able to have any new windows in it due to its proximity to the property
line not with any amount of protection or sprinkler system right but the building itself
there could be an adapter for use for this building we look at it to residential if one
wanted to go down that route we looked at it and in our in our view we could not make it work for
what we wanted to do right it's based on whatever based on whatever parameters you set up
based on many uh parameters let me if i can interrupt if i can interrupt ms mcewen when
When you looked at the potential of retrofitting this as residential units, how many units
were you looking at?
Well, we basically, at most, it would have been parts of two, two units, but we would
have had to go up through the roof, go out through the side.
We would have had to open up walls in ways and possibly go to a third floor to get the
amount of program and uh or amount of natural light into this into the building so in your
opinion you wouldn't be able to just take this building and create two apartment units as an
example not easily not within a uh not in a manner that would really make the development of the site
really uh work out with financially sorry henry i didn't mean to interrupt you no thank you mr
chairman but mr mckeon that's that's based on the parameters that that you set as to whether or not
you could get sufficient amount of units in there to make it economically worthwhile isn't that what
you're saying that's right okay that's a real that's a real parameter right but but could you
not add on to the back of the building or build above the building to make additional units
so if we build above the if we if we went through the roof of this we would have to build a steel
structure inside the building to support that. The roof and the walls will not
and the walls will not support any additional load even though they appear to be very strong
support any additional load even though they appear to be very strong.
there uh we could not use that that structure to go any higher uh and if we make openings in
those walls that's those would all have to be supported by a steel frame those openings
okay i have a lot of i have experience with other stone buildings where that's been the case
okay and you're aware that this building is in the chestnut hill national registry district
this building is among the 80 percent of the buildings in chestnut hill that are ranked
contributing that's 80 percent of the buildings have the same ranking as this building right so
i guess the answer is yes then the answer is yes but somebody previously said this was a
significantly contributing building that's misleading it is a contributing but not a
significant building on the national register but it is contributing that was my question just now
it is a contributing building just trying to for everybody else out there trying to put some
context into what contributing means and and also it's not on the local register and we do have a
demo. I think my questioning of Mission McEwen is complete. I'd like, well, you know what,
let me ask you a few more questions. One, bear with me.
so would you agree that there's really no unique physical circumstance or condition
that would warrant the ongoing use of this building because there's a because there's
an operating business in there now i'm not sure i understand your question sir what's well i think
you've already established that the building is well maintained it's being used and it's solid
so you'd have to agree that there's no unique physical condition of the building that would
not warrant its reuse i object i think he said the opposite no actually he did not i'm asking
a different question you're asking me if it's a well-maintained building i said yes but you're
saying in terms of its reuse for res first of all it's reuse for commercial we have to we look
mr o'reilly looks at that and he's already he's already stated the obvious which is that commercial
the physicality of the commercial corridor in germantown avenue is shrinking not expanding
and so there's no there's not a need for commercial use there's not a need for some
of those uses you described but there are is a dearth of housing available in chestnut hill and
northwest philadelphia in general that is well documented in fact has appeared in the
chestnut hill local immediately adjacent to neighbor uh articles about this building
so people want to live in chestnut hill they want to live close to the avenue we like the idea of them
being able to support restaurants shops take part in a pedestrian environment in a nice community
I appreciate the commentary, Mr. McKillen, but all I was trying to establish is, and I think you've already said it, there's no physical limitation on this building that warrants it being able to be reused either by Mr. O'Reilly or somebody else because it's been well maintained.
Well, again, it's proximity to the property line being a little over two feet away from the property line means that no additional window openings can be made onto that, into that building.
Right. That's for residential. I didn't ask that question.
All right. I have no further questions from Mr. McEwen. I have a few questions from Mr. O'Reilly.
Mr. O'Reilly?
yes i'm sorry hello mr o'reilly hello have you been sworn in
yes i believe i have yeah okay please proceed so mr o'reilly have you signed any listing
agreements with any realtor commercial or otherwise to try to market this building
no i have not okay and have you advertised this building on loop net or any other commercial
vehicle to try to sell this building my existing building no i have not okay uh do you have any
competitive market analysis indicating that this building uh is is not saleable
competitive market analysis no i do not okay
and you're continuing to operate a business in the building that's correct and if another
That's correct.
And if another company similar to yours or another retail establishment wanted to come in, they could use that building in its existing condition?
company similar to yours or another retailer?
I think that Larry identified earlier slides when we tried to look at what we could repurpose this building, the problems with that.
Number one, off the top of my head, was the parallel parking would have to go away because we don't have room for that, and that's grandfathered in.
So anyone coming in with a new use would have to utilize that, which means you'd have to put a driveway around the backside of it and go into that alleyway that is already congested.
Number two is we had an asbestos report done, and there's asbestos that's not only on the floors and the ceiling, but also attached to the stone on the inside of the plaster.
So anyone that had to come in and renovate that would have to deal with that, and that's in the tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to remediate that.
While there is no structural plan I have that I work with in my business,
a number of structural engineers that I have had walk through and give me their opinions on that wall.
And one of those reasons why we are not comfortable with that is they're concerned about the structural integrity of that wall on the west side that's bowed,
if you physically go look at it.
Right. But Mr. Riley, Mr. McEwen already answered the question that you don't have any report from a structural engineer or otherwise indicating
that this building is not structurally intact.
No, I have no report.
I have no further questions for Mr. O'Reilly.
I just have one question.
Henry, if CVS or Walgreens were to pay you market rent
on a long-term lease, would you be adverse to that?
A retail space that was going to do that?
Yeah, if there was a viable retail market.
Yes, if there was a viable retail market, yes, I would be.
you're not against making money no i just would like a townhouse that i can live in
well that too but but you wouldn't want to make space and lose money if there's no market
well that would be silly i think i think so
mr clinton don't have any more questions all right um carl i have nothing further nothing further
all right um hold on a second um my question is to the sonographer does the sonographer need a
break i know we have a number of cases yet to finish on the two o'clock list if the sonographer
reads a needs a break please raise your hand or let tanya know uh sir i do not need a break thank
Thank you. Okay, thank you. All right. Henry, you have some witnesses?
Yes, I have one witness who is going to testify for a number of people in the interest of brevity
and time because there are a number of people who are on the call, and I don't think the board wants