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Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - April 28, 2021

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Apr 28, 20217h 7m

to hear redundant testimony. So I will qualify this individual that she has the knowledge

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and the contact information with almost all the people on the call.

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So I'd like to call Elizabeth Wright.

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Any objection to that, Mr. Primavera?

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No, I would just like to make sure that she's authorized to speak.

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And if Henry Clinton says that she is, then fine.

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Okay, normally, you know, we would not entertain that.

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That's why I asked you.

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All right, Mr. Clinton.

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Elizabeth Wright, if she could be on mute it.

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Ms. Wright, if you, Ms. Wright, please raise your virtual hand.

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this right has been allowed to speak good afternoon miss right please identify yourself

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first spell your first and last name and i'll swear you in good afternoon sir yes my name is

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Elizabeth Wright. Elizabeth, E-L-I-Z-A-B-E-T-H, Wright, W-R-I-G-H-T. Do you swear or affirm to

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tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do, sir. Thank you. Please

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proceed, Mr. Clinton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, Ms. Wright. How are you today?

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I'm fine. Thank you. Good. Can you describe to the board what your role is as coordinator of

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the West Highland Neighborhood Group and how many individuals are involved with that group?

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Yes. I got involved with this project early on, I'd say in February, when we were first made aware that it was going to happen.

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Yes, I got involved with this project early.

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And through a survey issued to the community, we received responses from about 225 neighbors, near neighbors that are within 250 feet or so as defined for us,

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but also neighbors down all of the peripheral streets, West Highland, East Highland, Shawnee, Germantown, Navajo, Mead, et cetera.

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I have been, in a sense, the keeper of the data and the communicator, principal communicator with the group,

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emailing, speaking with them directly.

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I've canvassed many of the neighbors, in particular those within the 250-foot radius.

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So I've heard both in person as well as via email what their views are concerning this project.

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And Ms. Wright, within that 250 feet of the 30 West Highland, how many residential properties are there?

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There are roughly 24, 25 residential properties.

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And of those 24 residential properties, how many owners have you been in contact with directly?

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i would say uh 20 of those so 20 of those individuals are part of your organization

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yes and are you authorized to speak on behalf of those 20 as well as on behalf of the other 220

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yes and can you give the board a sense of uh those near neighbors concerns and and issues

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not only just with the project, but with the process. Let's start with the project first,

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if that's okay with you. Yes, please. With regard to the project, those within the 250 feet foot

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radius, let me say largely the 225 group, we are all concerned about various things. But first and

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foremost it is about the size of the building it is the height it is the scale it is the blockage

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of light it is the sense that this building looms over the adjacent properties and in essence many

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of us have described it as becoming visually even taller than the centerpiece of that top of the

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hill the fire station people had expressed concerns overall about yes traffic garbage various

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things. I will say that the owner, through the offering of an HOA, has resolved some of those

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operational issues, but it has not resolved the number one concern, which again is the height,

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the scale, the massing of that building as it goes on the site.

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the um please your question yeah uh in in terms of being heard and participating in the process

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why why do you feel that the near neighbors have not been heard and why do they feel they've not

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been heard uh for many reasons um i would begin with uh the the suggestion that the neighbors were

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contacted at the beginning. Andrew Ingersoll, who is a near neighbor, just emailed me to say

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I was sent a letter sometime maybe end of December, January, but when I contacted them back,

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I was not invited to any meetings. I had never saw the plans. And I think Shane Creamer might

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agree with that as well and others on that block. So I question when Mr. O'Reilly or Mr. McCune

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say near neighbors i'm not sure who that means to us the definition of near neighbor was that 250

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foot radius the process further we were really made aware of this project at the february

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i believe 15th 16th drc meeting it might have been a week earlier and at that time

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that was really the first time any of us had seen plans, suggestions of what this building

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would look like. I believe someone earlier said that this project had been known to the community

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back in October, and I disagree with that statement because none of us knew about it.

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We will say that we revisited the minutes from that discussion, and ironically it was known to

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that committee even then that the neighborhood would be in opposition to the design because of

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the height, scale, etc. We didn't get a chance to weigh in until February. Subsequent to that,

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through our voicing concerns, there was a willingness to create an ad hoc subcommittee.

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a willingness to create an ad hoc subcommittee um and forgive me if i'm sort of airing laundry

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of the community i don't mean to but that subcommittee our membership was told not to

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communicate with the neighbors that it was uh not allowed until after all of the proceedings

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however many meetings that however many meetings that was were allowed to take place and so

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So the neighborhood really didn't get any details from our representation until the subcommittee, I'm sorry, until the architect presented again.

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I believe that was on March 16th or sometime. Yes, March 16th.

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It was back and forth and back and forth with what was proposed.

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proposed, and ultimately what we saw in the presentation was that there were modifications

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cosmetically to the design.

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Some minor pullback at that time, which was then pulled back further in terms of the setback,

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but really none of the neighbors' principal concerns were heard, acknowledged, and remedied.

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So we were left at that point with trying to work through, for example, the Conservancy,

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another of our RCOs.

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The Conservancy hasn't really been mentioned by, I believe, the owner, architect, or Mr.

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Primavera.

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The Conservancy voted 12-2 against this project.

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From our understanding, it's an equal RCO, though the CHCA takes the lead.

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he referenced the HCAC which is a subcommittee for the process that committee also voted 12 to

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against from our perspective this community as a whole if we're really honest is not in consensus

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that this project should go forward there is serious opposition if the DRC votes 3-2

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in favor. That's one vote, whereas the HDAC votes 12-2. Again, so not to belabor, I think that at

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no step in this process were the neighbors' principal concerns listened to or remedied.

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Ms. Wright, if you don't mind, Henry, could you spell out what those concerns are?

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Yes, our concerns are largely due... Let me stop for a second. I'm not an architect,

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and most of the membership of our group is not understood neither am i okay good sir um i will

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say that um we we are not going to offer to redesign segments of the building because we

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can't but what i will say is that as we imagine ourselves walking by this structure along highland

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looking at it from highland um and there's reference i think consistently to the frontage

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Imagine, if you will, that the frontage of this building is really, as you walk up Highland, or as you walk up Germantown Avenue, you will see this building towering above what is to us a historic village.

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No, height. Not to be, I don't mean to interrupt you, but height is an issue, correct?

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Yes, sir. I'll try to be brief.

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yeah height is an issue you mentioned something about trash earlier but i think that's resolved

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through the homeowners association we hope so well that would be part of a proviso if this

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were to be approved uh so trash height and any what else i would say the uh density of the

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building the number of townhomes in a monolithic block and now granted the last two that are at

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the back i believe those are seven and eight property um those are set back that's density

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correct it is an issue yes and and i forgive me density is a word that that many have bandied

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about in different ways i don't know if we always are using it in the same way um density is not

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about the number of people um it is about the number of structures about the number of units

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right structures okay and then miss right the frontage on highland avenue yes sir i said the

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The frontage is, the frontage to many of us, again, it's very tall, very imposing.

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The setback potentially could help, though we've not really had a chance to digest those documents.

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They were presented at the meeting to us, the community, the day that we were supposed to make a decision on them.

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It may help that that is set back, but what we still will see is six structures of that height basically moving back into the parking lot.

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parking lot. So, Ms. Wright, you're talking about plans via the sketch that were presented around

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So, Mishra, you're talking about plans via the sketch.

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April 22nd. Is that what you're referring to? Yes, the hand sketch on the paper. Okay. And then

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you also mentioned the Chestnut Hill Conservancy. And that is Ms. Cove, C-O-V-E? That is correct,

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Patricia Cove. And she submitted a letter of opposition to the ZBA, correct? Yes, she did.

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Was it just, Henry, was that just a letter of opposition or did it identify the reasons for?

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It identified four reasons, three or four reasons.

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Massing, density, height, scale.

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What Mrs. Wright is talking about, right?

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And if I may, it also mentioned the owner's failure to really demonstrate that this property could not be reused.

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amongst. Okay, thank you. Henry, anything else? No, I think Ms. Wright has covered everything

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on behalf of herself as well as her 250 members of her neighborhood. Okay, I do have, if Ms. Wright,

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if you're still there, would you happen to know, and if you don't understand that, of the 220 some

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folks who expressed opposition, do you know if any of them participated in any of the

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uh rco meetings um many of us did if i may say i mean we we made a point of going and of um trying

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to get our voices heard i spoke uh at two or two of those meetings others did as well um there's

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been very strong if i can say it this way there's been very strong uh participation but we're not

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being listened to listening today we're listening mr chico i really appreciate your saying that

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Thank you.

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Thank you, sir.

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All right.

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Mr. Permavere, do you have any questions?

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Yes, briefly.

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Ms. Wright, I'm looking at an article that was published in the Chestnut Hill Local that you wrote.

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Yes, sir.

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And was it accurate?

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To my knowledge.

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All right.

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So it says here that you're very upset that these properties may get a 10-year tax abatement?

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Yes, correct.

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All right. And that's because you don't want any tax savings to the developer. That's correct?

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That's not what you say.

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That's not what I'm saying, sir. Actually, if I could go through that.

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No, let me just ask the questions. All right. You've had a chance to testify.

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Yes, sir.

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I just want to ask the question. It says a massive profit and a 10-year tax abatement.

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That's how you describe the tax abatement, right?

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In that letter, I don't have it in front of me, sir.

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All right, but we'll submit it. Second of all, the 38 feet is problematic, correct?

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The 38 feet height?

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Of height, yes.

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The 38 feet plus the pilot houses above, which lead to 47 feet, that is problematic. Yes, sir.

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All right, but you said that the 38 feet was problematic. And did you hear the testimony that 38 feet is allowed in this district?

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Yes, I did, sir.

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So in essence, can I respond to your question, sir?

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Yes.

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So the 38 feet is problematic because you add then a pilot house, which then brings it up to 47.

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Now, it is my understanding that the pilot houses from Philadelphia's perspective don't count towards that height dimension?

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That is correct.

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Okay.

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So it's 38 feet that you're unhappy with because the extra pilot house is not height for zoning and not relevant,

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even though it may make you unhappy the same way the 10-year tax abatement makes you unhappy.

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Understood.

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The demolition of the building, is it correct that you've been on a tear as some of the near neighbors

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complaining that this building is going to be demolished?

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Isn't that a driving force in this process for you?

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No, it is not.

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It is not.

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Not a tear.

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Can I respond to that, sir?

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No, I'm just trying to find out.

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I believe that the unhappiness around this project stems from the many people who want

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to keep the building because either they say it's historic or they want to block any new

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development by keeping it on the site. Now, hasn't the desire to maintain this building

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been a key part of the opposition? May I answer the question? Yes or no, please, and then

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you can describe whatever else. You can answer the question. Initially, when surveyed, there

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is great concern. And I will say that the Conservancy is a proponent for preservation

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of historic and historically contributing buildings. As we have gone through this process,

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we have been led to believe that trying to save this building is really a losing proposition.

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led to believe that trying to save this building is really a losing proposition

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because of forces that are beyond our control. Many of us have made peace with the notion that

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this building may not be savable, though we disagree that commercial options aren't possible

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if the building were allowed to be saved. So we actually are of many minds and of very many,

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many of us are very willing to move forward with the notion that residential is the direction

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and our option. And so we are not on a tear, sir. We are willing and wanting to work with you all

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to make a building that fits well within this community. All right. And you also mentioned in

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your letter the very real concern about more traffic congestion due to the number of cars

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is that also in your letter to the chestnut hill local it is in the letter and you have since

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responded to that with your traffic study all right and you say that letter is traffic versus

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pedestrian problems so you're very free in your letter talking about traffic concerns when in

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reality if you read the report it says clearly and obviously that the amount of traffic

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from eight townhouses will be far less than the 20-plus service vans, employee vans, and deliveries

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that you obviously see every day at the site. Mr. Primavera, if you let her finish the question,

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she acknowledged that that letter was written before your traffic study.

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Except that these 200 people read the letter, which is inaccurate, and no wonder they signed

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a petition. How close do you live to the property, Ms.? Mr. Primavera, may I answer the first

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question which is please please answer miss right thank you mr chico the individuals who responded

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to the survey are all residents of a neighborhood that frequently walk within chestnut hill and see

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the problems that exist on west highland and germantown outside of killians the notion that

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there would be any construction any new development there when we watch what happens on that block

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on a daily basis because it is the only block, north or whatever direction that is, of Willow

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Grove Avenue that allows two-way traffic, you can imagine that neighbors were immediately

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concerned that this would make it worse.

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Your traffic study ultimately perhaps resolved that.

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It would have been better, I think, had that traffic study been released early on because

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it was clear that traffic would be a major concern without any knowledge or information to back that

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up. All right. So, and I understand people overreact if they don't know the facts. Now,

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