COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, March 10, 2015 10:40 a.m. PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN MARIA D. QUINONES-SANCHEZ, CHAIR COUNCILWOMAN CINDY BASS COUNCILMAN WILLIAM K. GREENLEE COUNCILMAN BOBBY HENON COUNCILMAN KENYATTA JOHNSON COUNCILMAN DAVID OH BILL 120103 - An ordinance amending Title 4 of The Philadelphia Code, Subcode "F" (The Philadelphia Fire Code) and Subcode "A" (The Philadelphia Administrative Code), by providing that building owners shall follow applicable requirements of State and City Construction Codes to conduct periodic inspection and testing of fire dampers... BILL 150079 - An ordinance amending Title 9 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Regulation of Businesses, Trades and Professions," by adding a new Chapter providing for the licensing and regulation of donation bins... - -
The Committee on Licenses and Inspections will now come to order, having established a quorum. To my far left, Councilman Henon. To my left, Councilman Greenlee, and to my right, Councilman Kenyatta Johnson. Before we read the title of the bill, we are going to hear -- I want to make a note for the record that Bill No. 12 120103 has been held at the request of the sponsor to the call of the Chair. With that, will the Clerk read the title of Bill No. 150079.
An ordinance 17 amending Title 9 of The Philadelphia Code, entitled "Regulation of Businesses, Trades and Professions," by adding a new Chapter providing for the licensing and regulation of donation bins, establishing penalties, and making conforming amendments and technical changes, all under certain terms and conditions.
Thank 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 you. Rebecca, Mr. Butler has been here since early and needs to --
No. You can sit there. Stay there. Where did he go? Oh, Mr. Butler, can you come forward. We're going to allow him -- he doesn't have written testimony. He wanted to get his stuff on the record, and he's been waiting patiently since 10 o'clock. (Witness approached witness table.)
You may proceed. Start with your name for the record and you may proceed.
Jay Butler. I own a property and a business at the corner of 21st and Hunting Park, which also extends to the corner of 21st and Erie. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 And before I say another thing, I would like to thank Councilwoman Bass's office for helping me get rid of the donation bin.
One day I went to work and there was this blue -- I didn't even know what the name of it was, but there was this blue box on the far corner, not on my property but on the other side of the fence on the sidewalk. So I felt I would -- okay, it's a nice thing to do. A couple weeks go by and now the bin is full. A couple weeks go by, clothes are falling all over the place. So I call 311 to help, and nothing happened. Then a mattress and a television set showed up. Called again, and that they could take care of. So two or three days later, I guess the City department came by and took the mattress and the TV set and left the clothes, 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 which I thought was funny. And at the same time, I must say that the Sanitation Department of Philadelphia stops at this corner every Tuesday. I've asked them to do something. It's not their job. I call again the 311 complaining. Nothing happened. Then some smart person told me to call my City Councilperson. So as fate would have it, I did call. A young lady named Elliot helped me out, and it was the same day that the Inquirer was doing a piece on the donation bin problem, which I didn't know was a problem. Any case, at that time she asked me if you don't mind coming at the donation bin so they could take a picture of me. I didn't know why they needed a picture of me. So they only took a picture of the bin, and at this time, of course, the clothes was spread out. Now, of course, we had some alcoholic beverages also in the bin. And the piece came out on a Monday and I think a couple 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 days later the Sanitation Department came by and with shovels took all the clothes and threw it into the dumpster -- into the truck, and then a couple days -- I called the City Councilperson and thanked them. And a couple days later, the donation box was gone. Very happy. Called, thank you very much. And just a little caveat to this whole story, coming down today, I passed the corner -- I don't live at 21st and Hunting Park, but there is -- a nice neighborhood. We live right near the Police Department. It's right near the 39th District. And, actually, I did go to the 39th District police to ask them if there's anything I can do, because I was getting nowhere for probably a month. And they told me, well, if I want, I could move it myself. So anyway, I didn't move it myself. But, lastly, on the way down today, I now have a mattress at the corner of 21st and Erie. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 Thank you very much.
Thank you so much for your patience. Any questions for our witness? (No response.)
Thank you so much for coming down and putting your story on the record. We greatly appreciate it. Proof positive that government works. I want to acknowledge Councilman Oh to my right. And with that, Rebecca.
Good morning, Chairwoman Sanchez, members of the Committee on Licenses and Inspections and sponsor Councilwoman Bass. My name is Rebecca Swanson. I am the Director of Policy and Legislative Affairs for the Department of Licenses and Inspections. Today I'm here to provide testimony on Bill No. 150079, which, if enacted, will add to Title 9 of The Philadelphia Code a section regulating donation bins. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 The Department would first like to thank the sponsor as well as the offices of Councilman Jones, Councilman Henon, and Councilman Neilson for their collaborative work on the amendments to this bill. The Department supports this bill with the proposed amendments and its intention to improve the quality of life for citizens by making donation bins subject to certain maintenance requirements. Specifically, the bill 14 holds the owners of these certain properties upon which the bin may be placed, as well as the owners and operators of the bins themselves, accountable for the proper design, placement, and maintenance of the bins. It is incumbent upon these owners to take full responsibility for all associated obligations under Title 9 and the Property Maintenance Code. The Department is prepared to enforce the provisions of this bill, as 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 amended, should it become law. The Department will, on a complaint basis, inspect the property upon which a bin is located and, if a code violation is found, will cite the property owner and the bin owner, if known, accordingly. Thank you for the opportunity to provide the Department's testimony on Bill No. 150079. I will be happy to answer any questions at this time.
Thank you. Any questions? Can you quickly tell us what this bill will allow L&I to do. You talked about responsibilities for the property owner as well as the bin owner.
Sure. What it will allow L&I to do is go out on a complaint basis. So if we receive a complaint through 311 about these bins being placed on private property, we will go out, we will inspect the bin, and if a code violation exists, which would be a 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 violation of the Property Maintenance Code typically for exterior trash or graffiti, we would cite both the owner of the property and the owner of the bin. In some cases, it's very difficult to ascertain who the owner of the bin is, but we will cite everyone we can find. And with that code violation notice, it would be either a ticket handed right on the spot or it would be a notice of violation that's sent out to the owner.
Yeah. It could be a CVN or it could be a notice of violation.
Well, we'd be able to find the property owner because we would have a record of who the property owner is. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079
So, for example, if the property owner says, I don't know where that came from.
Typically the bins do have some sort of name or contact information on them or at least the name of the owner. So we would do some research to try to find who the bin owner is.
My question is, is there some point where if you can't get in touch with the owner, there isn't contact information, the property owner doesn't -- that the bin can be removed?
Well, we would -- it would be incumbent upon the property owner to then clean up whatever the violation is. So if there are clothing or items around the bin, if there's graffiti on the bin, because it's on the property owner's property, it is incumbent upon them to maintain everything on their property, which would include the donation bin. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079
Okay. If it's on public property, abandoned property, something like that, is there a procedure whereby instead of letters going out, the bin gets thrown away, removed?
The right-of-way would be the Streets Department, because L&I only goes up to the property line. So if someone calls in and says that there is a bin on the right-of-way, the bill specifically prohibits anything from being on the right-of-way, so sidewalks, streets, anything like that. That complaint would be directed to the Streets Department, and then they would handle the citation and eventual removal, if that's appropriate. L&I would stick to just within the property line itself.
The citation and the eventual removal, is it clear who removes that? 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079
Again, if it's on the right-of-way, that is the responsibility of the Streets Department. If it's on private property, it would be incumbent upon the property owner to maintain -- because they're not prohibited on private property. They just need to be maintained well on private property. The prohibition is on the right-of-way only.
I guess like, for example, let's say it's on private property, but nobody knows where that private property owner is, as it turns out to be the case in more than one occasion, and then instead of just kind of citing the property owner, is there like, if they don't respond in a certain period of time -- like, in other words, it's kind of like you live in a neighborhood and there's a property and nobody is responsible for it, it seems, and there's some tenants or maybe there aren't tenants and this bin is there and 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 it's been there for a number of months, and there's citations going out. Does somebody remove that after a period of time, like it could be removed?
There is a provision in the bill that would allow for the removal of the bin if it poses a public safety hazard. And, again, this is limited to private property where they are not -- where they are allowed. If there is a public safety threat as determined by the Department of Licenses and Inspections, there is a provision that it could be removed.
So L&I would determine that it's a public safety hazard and it could be then removed?
Thank you, Madam Chair. And, Ms. Swanson, thank you for your testimony in support of the bill. I want to thank the co-sponsors of this piece of legislation, Majority Leader Jones and the Vice Chair of L&I Committee here, Councilwoman Cindy Bass. I think there has been an increasing amount of proliferation of these bins just popping up and showing up everywhere, destroying the quality of life of our neighborhoods, and L&I is extremely important, the first line of defense in handling these types of issues. I know my office specifically has been receiving a tremendous amount of new calls as well as ongoing for the past year and a half of these donation bins just showing up without authority, and we keep getting the runaround on who authorized, who didn't authorize, and I 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 think that this legislation collaboratively has been well thought out and protects our public rights-of-ways, especially when it comes to commercial corridors and the quality of life. Have you been receiving more calls regarding these types of bins just popping up in the neighborhoods?
I don't know if we've been receiving more calls, but we do receive calls typically, and we will go out, and if it's on private property, we will investigate, and we do treat that as a Property Maintenance Code violation, because trash and graffiti are both -- they are both enumerated in the Property Maintenance Code. As far as complaints for the right-of-way, I don't have a figure on numbers because those would be directed to the Streets Department.
We have the gentleman who testified a little bit ago here prior to you, and it's the broken 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 window theory, and that's exactly what the Property Maintenance Code helps to prevent. You have an irresponsible bin that is placed there illegally, without knowledge or permission of whomever, and it gets filled. It's not regularly checked, and next thing you know, it becomes short dumping. And that's what's happening at least in my district and I think with some of my colleagues. But I also want to note for the record that there are good, responsible donation bin owners that are out there that are doing the right thing for the causes that they all believe in and that we share and echo. So for those that are good actors, this is not to regulate them in a sense that it's going to hurt what their goals and objectives are. This is for those who are irresponsible or illegal and taking advantage of the citizens of Philadelphia and the City as a whole. So I just wanted to clarify 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 that and show that there is a difference. But enough is enough with the irresponsible donation bins.
And by putting some onus on the property owner, we do believe that that will help the property owners distinguish between the good actors and the bad actors and they will be much more discerning as to if someone does approach them to ask permission, they will -- because they have some risk in being cited themselves, that they would be much more limited in who they allow to put the bin on their property.
Thank you. Any other questions for our witness? (No response.)
I have Beth McConnell and James Harvey. And then after that, I have a Terry Kaplan and a Rick Serai. (Witnesses approached witness table.) MS. McCONNELL: Good morning, Chairwoman Sanchez and members of Council, members of the Committee. My name is Beth McConnell, Policy Director with the Philadelphia Association of Community Development Corporations, PACDC. We want to thank Councilwoman Bass for her leadership in introducing Bill No. 150079, as well as Councilmembers Jones and Henon and Councilman Neilson as well who worked collaboratively to craft an amended bill 20 that address these donation bins for used goods. PACDC's members, which include groups that work to revitalize and improve the conditions of our residential neighborhoods as well as our neighborhood 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 commercial corridors, have repeatedly contacted us to express frustration about these used goods donation bins popping up in their neighborhoods. The bins have been placed in the public right-of-way and on vacant lots, have been the source of illegal dumping, including household garbage, are consistently tagged with graffiti as well as plastered sometimes with illegal event posters. And when they are poorly placed and poorly maintained, they are a blighting influence and a drag on neighborhood reinvestment. PACDC is fully supportive of the individual donors, non-profits, and companies who put unwanted goods back into productive use rather than a landfill, but we believe that bin owners as well as the owners of the property on which they are placed have a responsibility to nearby residents and businesses to prevent the bins from becoming an eyesore. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 So we support Bill No. 150079, as amended, which would prohibit the placement of the bins in the public right-of-way. It would also restrict the bins to private commercial property; require the expressed written permission of the property owner allowing the placement of the bins; require that the area around the bins be free of debris or other donated items; and require that the bins be kept free of graffiti and, importantly, would hold both the property owner as well as the collection bin owner responsible for any violations. And I've shared, attached to my testimony, a couple photos of some bins that we've seen. The blue one is in Olney. I think it's North 6th and West -- I can't remember the exact address, but it's in Olney. The other one, this one is from Esperanza's service territory near the commercial corridor that Esperanza manages on North 5th and just examples -- they actually -3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 Esperanza actually tries to keep this clean. They actually clean it up themselves when they can, which is a huge task. And this other is actually in my neighborhood. You'll see it's tagged with graffiti and has been there for months. We have two suggested additions to the legislation. First, if it's legally permissible, we would advocate for language that would prohibit placing the bins on vacant property that is either in the public or the private inventory. That's because if there's not regular ongoing activity at the site by the property owner or the tenants, it could take days or weeks or longer for the responsible party to even become aware of the fact that there are maintenance issues, let alone act on them. And we already have huge challenges keeping our vacant properties free of litter and garbage, and we think that this can exacerbate the problem. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 Second, we recommend that it be required that the property owner post in a very conspicuous manner what the City's fines are for illegal dumping at the bin location. It's certainly going to take an awful lot more than just notification to ensure compliance and catch violators, but at least posting the fines puts the potential dumpers on record that if caught, they're going to face steep penalties. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.
Good morning. My name is James Harvey. I'm a committee person at 17/4. I want to thank Cindy Bass and Ed Neilson for helping me get two removed off Stenton Avenue by Medary. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 It's been an ongoing issue in our neighborhood for the last four or five years about these bins. The bins is a problem because it become dump sites, and like the lady was saying before how she would try to do it through L&I, me, that's not going to work, because for one thing, I called 311 on numerous occasions and tried to explain to them where the bin was in my area, and they told me they was on private property. I told them it's on City property. They said, Well, we have to cite them. Well, how you going to cite the Recreation Department? See, I really think what's going to happen, it's going to get lost in the mix, because the turnaround -- right now the paperwork to get these removed is going to get lost, because they were saying that they going to try to notify the owners of these properties which is vacant, but you can't find the owners anyway. The lot is still dirty. The lot still has trash and you have a 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 bin that's clothing on the lot. So how you going to do one to get the other? And our problem is that the owners had came in to Philadelphia and just dumped these throughout. Numerous times we called the owners. They very nasty, irresponsible people in the areas. And that should be the bin gone right then and there. We appreciate the bill, what everybody is doing, but like with everything else, it has to be retooled over better than how it's going to be, and that's with the 311 operators, which has no idea how to do this, because my neighbors, they was calling and we was calling. Luckily they called Cindy Bass and Councilman Ed Neilson, and we jumped on it, but how about the person that don't know? And when you tell me you couldn't do anything because it's on private property, which is a City playground, that's wrong. So then when I turned the paperwork in to L&I for this 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 to get cited, there's a 30-day, a 30-day, a 30-day, a 30-day. We over-swamped. We going to get -- I foresee it will be a year turnaround before you even get one removed, because where's the revenue going to come to get a tow truck to remove it? But I just can't understand. I really can't understand. I've been a committee person for the last 30 years. I can't understand how these companies are allowed to come into the City of Philadelphia, drop their things without really nothing more that's been said to pass a bill. I can't understand it. To me -- and I've always been blunt -- something just ain't right. Because if I can tell you you don't do something and you keep doing it, it's not right. But I hope the bill works. I'm for the bill and everything, but the calls into 311 that calls in, somebody has to really be accountable for the paperwork, because they get ready to get 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 swamped, because they everywhere. I have one other thing and I'll stop. I really think it should just go back to have them where they used to be in shopping centers. Years ago you used to have one in a shopping center serving an area, and that's only where you see them. But you're talking about right-of-way on a vacant lot and the lot is dirty with trash and you have a bin and I'm calling you about the lot a year ago, now I'm going to catch up for the year for the bin, that's not the answer. Thank you.
Thank you, both of you. Rebecca, can you come back up and answer the question about can it be prohibited in vacant lots and stuff? I don't understand if there's a legal issue. (Witness approached witness table.) 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079
Well, it would have to be -- the provision in it is, it has to be zoned commercial or industrial. So that obviously limits -- they're not going to be placed on a residential lot in between two occupied homes or anything like that. And in addition, again, it would be incumbent upon the bin owner to ask permission of the property owner. I don't believe the City would ever provide that permission on a City-owned vacant lot.
So for interpretation purposes, anybody who has a bin in a vacant lot that is City-owned should not be there.
That is correct. And, again, then it would become -- we would -- if we are called to that, we 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 would cite the bin owner and then we would let Public Property know that the bin is on that property, and then the discussion would ensue as to how it gets removed.
So that implies, as the gentleman was talking about, rec centers and other places, because they would require authorization?
Yes. Anything that the owner is Public Property or whatever City department, they would have to provide permission.
Okay. I just wanted clarification for the record. Do you have a question, Councilwoman Bass?
Yes. Well, really more of a statement for Mr. Harvey back there, who I know very well, is one of my committee people in the 17th Ward and has been doing a great job in the community for a very long time. And I just really wanted to say that I 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 certainly understand the frustration. I think that we all feel the frustration, and that's the purpose of the bill, because you ride by these bins, they look awful. They are a magnet for other trash and dumping and debris. And I agree, it feels as if a lot of our neighborhoods have become dumping grounds for anything people don't want in their own neighborhood. They don't live near it, but it seems to be okay to dump it, whether it's in the 17th Ward or the 12th or 13th Ward, it's okay to dump it in West Oak Lane or Germantown or North Philadelphia. And so I just wanted to say that and say I certainly understand. We're going to work closely on enforcement on this. So it should not take a year. Actually, it should take a whole lot less than that. And if you are having difficulties, we want to know about it so that we can move it along, and we encourage you to call our office. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 You can contact 311 also, but call our office as well. Thank you.
Thank you, Rebecca. And then our last panel is Terry Kaplan and Rick Serai. (Witnesses approached witness table.)
I should be better at pronouncing anything that ends in a vowel.
Good morning, Councilmembers. My name is Rick Serai. I'm with Planet Aid, along with Terry Kaplan.
First, we want to thank you for the opportunity to speak regarding Bill 150079. First, Planet Aid has operated bins in the City of Philadelphia for over eight years now. We have over 300 bins within the City, 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 which collect annually over 700,000 pounds. Our bins -- prior to placement, we get written consent from either the property owner, the tenant or the lessee of that property, very systematic approach that we utilize to make sure we gain authorization to place the bins on the property. There are a few concerns regarding Bill 150079 which we would like the Council to consider. First one is Section 9-4102(b) concerning the permitted use of donation bins. It states that, The property owner or the property owner's authorized agent has provided written permission to the owner or operator of the donation bin for the placement of the donation bin on the property. I would like to see if that could also be amended to include the tenant or the lessee to have permission. There's a lot of absentee owners of properties or businesses where we're not 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 able to gain access. In Section 9 --
Excuse me. I just need clarity. What are you asking for?
You're saying that because you can't locate an owner, you want us to remove that provision?
Section 9-4103 No. 21 4 where it states, No donation bins shall be placed within 20 feet of any building nor within 20 feet of the public right-of-way. Not having the ability to place 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 a bin within feet of a building severely hampers our efforts in collecting clothes. It also minimizes --
I'm 6 sorry. Can you speak into the 7 microphone. We're having a little bit of 8 trouble hearing you. 9
This minimizes our 10 opportunity to place bins where they're 11 actually visible or strategic placed 12 where citizens can donate. 13
Okay. Section 20 9-4104(1), The name, address and telephone number of the owner or the operator of the donation bin and the property owner or property owner's authorized agent shall be printed in clear and legible letters, not less than 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 three inches high or in the front of the donation bin. All of our bins we've had in the City for numerous years now, all of ours are two inches. We wanted to see if there's any way that can be grandfathered in with existing bins. It's very cost prohibitive. We manufacture all of our labels throughout the country from various vendors, but we would have to go through a large change in order to make it three inches instead of the two inches that we utilize right now throughout the country.
We place our name on all four sides. We state clothes and shoes donations on there, but they're not three inches. Our name of our 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 organization is two inches.
Yes. As in Sections 9-4105, Points (1) and (2), we feel that the bin operator or the owner should be held liable for any violations of this Chapter, not solely the property owner. We feel the bin operators -- with the proliferation of bins throughout the City, that bin operators should be held liable to a higher degree and accountability than they are now. And in addition, we wanted to see if the licensing and bonding could be done with bin operators with the City. Also, specific instructions on how to seek permits and the cost of doing so for bins if we had to tag our bins with labels. And whether the bin operator or the owners, they should disclose whether they are non-profit or for-profit on their bins as well. And the last one is, the 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 operators, the owners of these bins should submit tonnage reports to the City on a quarterly or annual basis to indicate what they're collecting and how much they're collecting.
You're asking that the operators submit a report to the City?
Did we want to take the other testimony and then ask questions or you need clarifying questions? Because I know I'm a little confused. I'm trying to follow this.
And I appreciate the opportunity to speak today to the Council. I just want to say that I've heard some of the testimony earlier today, and a lot of that is geared towards some of these other entities that are here. I know that Councilman Henon pointed out there were good actors and bad actors here, and I feel we've operated on a higher level than some others, and I just wanted to point that out that that should be understood. And 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 I think even some of the witnesses you have here can testify that we've operated on a different level than they have. And I also would like to address the green initiative that the City has, where I know the City has a goal of eliminating 70 percent of what's going to the dump sites, and I'd like to say that having clothing bins in the City is helping that goal, not hindering it. And that's it.
Thank you very much. So thank you for your testimony, and I think we all understand there's good operators and bad operators, but I don't exactly understand the nature of the business, be it non-profit or profit. I think I understand the non-profit side. I think I understand the business side. So let me just go through this with you. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 So your company alone -- and I know there's other companies, but your company alone has about 300 bins and collects about 700,000 pounds of clothing per year?
And when you collect the clothing, where does this clothing go?
The clothing that's collected is brought back to distribution centers within 14 states that we operate in. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079
Hatboro, okay. And so all these bins, the clothes go to Hatboro. And what happens there?
We bale the product and then we ship the product, whether it be domestic or international.
Where do they go internationally? How many countries do they go to?
Okay. Fifteen different countries. And the cost of shipping, the cost of delivery, the cost of transportation, the man hours involved 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 in all of this process, how is that paid for?
All the internal costs of the operation are paid for by Planet Aid. It's paid through the sale of those clothings.
It's paid through when we sell the clothing to fund our programs around the world. That's how we cover all of our expenses, all of our operating expenses.
Okay. So when you sell the clothes, how do you sell it? Do you sell it per pound or do you sell it per garment, or how do you sell it?
Do you know the salary of the highest paid officer in your corporation?
You already put two-inch lettering on all four sides of the bin, and does that include the contact information?
Thank you. So you have 20,000 bins nationwide and you said you have about 300 in Philadelphia. Can you tell me where they are in Philadelphia, what neighborhoods?
They're spread out 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 throughout the City. I don't know the exact locations. I can give you those.
Can you give us an idea maybe where the majority of your bins are? Are they in the Northeast or Southwest?
They're spread out pretty equally. They're not very -- we're not really represented very strongly in the Center City area, because it just doesn't make sense. It's too congested and it would cause too many problems for the public and even for our collections. But we're probably strongest throughout North Philadelphia and West Philadelphia.
Okay. Because my concern is that a lot of these bins, as we said earlier, in my own opinion, are problematic. They become eyesores. They get tagged up and all of those sorts of things. And so when we 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 put them in areas that already have considerable blight issues, your bins become issues now. And so I don't know -- do you have any bins in some of the more affluent neighborhoods in Philadelphia?
Yes. We do -- except for Center City itself where it's really tight and the streets are too small, we're pretty much represented in all the other neighborhoods.
I'd really like to see a list of where the bins are and what neighborhoods, because I think that speaks to your thoughts about those neighborhoods and also your thoughts about other neighborhoods that are not -- where there are no bins. So I'd really like to see a list.
We try and keep our bins clean in all the neighborhoods. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 We don't --
-- try and say, Well, this is a nicer neighborhood, we're going to keep it cleaner here. We actually try and do a very strong effort in keeping our bins clean and neat. The only -- we have a little problem with graffiti. We can't control that, but we do have a shop and we do have one person that when we bring bins back when it's reported to us and somebody tells us there's graffiti on it, we will repaint them and reconfigure them. We do a very good job with keeping all the trash from our bins, because we have -- if people call us, within hours that trash is 19 removed. And I think there's some 20 separation from us and other vendors in 21 that. We really make a great effort in 22 keeping our bins clean. If somebody is 23 going to be nice enough to host our bin, 24 we don't want them to have those kind of problems. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079
Okay. And do you currently have any bins on residential properties? Do you currently have any bins on --
We use an agreement that we sign that the authorized agent of that property signs off on before we even approve it. It comes back to our facilities and the operations manager approves it before placement.
Okay. And you said you remove trash once you get a complaint within hours? 20 (Mr. Kaplan shakes head in the 21 affirmative.) 22
And in 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 terms of suburban Philadelphia, in the different counties, what kind of count on bins do you have in the surrounding counties?
We have probably an additional thousand bins spread out throughout the metropolitan area. So they're in a wide range of markets that we have them in.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you guys for coming in. I have a few questions. One, how does this piece of legislation affect your business? If you're one of the good actors that are out there, how would this be an obstacle or a hindrance for you to continue to do what you have been doing? 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079
Outside of some of the points that I discussed, we're in full support of it, because we think there needs to be an ordinance in place.
So at this current time, you do know where every bin is being placed. So if the City had asked Planet Aid for an inventory list, you would be able to provide them?
And you have a call line, a hotline that is indicated on the bins for any kind of issues or complaints? And how often -- and if you do, how often is it being monitored or people working the phones?
The number rolls into a land line at our address on 2940 Turnpike Drive in Hatboro, Pennsylvania. It's monitored between 8:00 and 6:00 p.m. daily. After that, messages are checked the next morning. Depending on seasonality of the business, sometimes 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 they're run five days, mostly six days. On an off day, managers are responsible for checking that probably on a quarterly hour basis, checking messages on the weekends.
And do you have a regular -- I guess you have somebody going out who is a supervisor or the eyes on the street to take a look at -- physically taking a look at the bins that you can provide the inventory to the City for on a regular basis or is it as somebody calls and says, Hey, your bins are overflowed?
We have a very systematic approach. We know how many pounds each one of our bins yield, and based on that, we develop a frequency of how often we should go to that bin. If we do get a call, we'll immediately respond. We have a field manager that responds. Terry Kaplan is our community relationship manager, and he responds for any other issues outside of the 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 collection of clothes. Collections are responsible by the field manager, transportation manager, and an operations manager at our facility.
And as far as the graffiti, through the Property Maintenance Code we do have provisions for dumpsters and for properties, and we've actually tweaked it over the last year or so where the days of remedy was from ten down to five, because what happens is upon -- and that's always a discretion -- upon notification or notice of the graffiti, which could be a month, who knows, but the reality could be a few months. So it's just a suggestion. I'm sure you operate and a good actor as your business goes. Some graffiti removal as you're going along and inspecting probably would go a long way with you moving forward. We address graffiti on a regular basis. We address bandit signs on a regular basis and hold business 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 owners and property owners responsible for the clutter and the litter of our neighborhoods, as well as the benches that just appear everywhere throughout the City. And I'm afraid that if we don't regulate behavior now, not as an obstacle for somebody to do business but to regulate it for the quality of life, it will just continue to get worse, and I think that's what's happening here. So I'm hoping that your relationship with the City Department of L&I, I suggest that on a regular basis, you should check in with them, submit inventory, and see how we can be good partners with the City of Philadelphia.
Yes. We have a full-time -- employed a full-time bin maintenance person that refurbishes all the bins, so if we get a call that there's graffiti or there's a problem with the bin, we pull that and replace it. If there's a need to replace the bin due to graffiti, then we'll bring it 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 back, we'll put a new bin out that's been refurbished. It's never an issue that we wouldn't respond.
And I would be remiss, I would be foolish not to mention we'd appreciate if you want to move your Pennsylvania headquarters into the City of Philadelphia. That will be great. We do have a good Office of Manufacturing and Industry that would love to see you here. Thank you.
Thank you. And one other quick question. Actually, a couple of quick questions. So can you talk about the actual clothes cleaning process. Who does that? What goes into the clothes? Can you talk about that in a little bit of detail.
There's no cleaning of the clothes. We minimize how many times we actually touch the product just 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 purely from an operational cost perspective. We pick up the bins. The drivers pick up the clothing, excuse me, from the bins. We bring them back. We offload it. We weigh it by driver. We scan everything in. At that time, we start the baling process. So we place them in like a cardboard bale that you'd see in a grocery store. We bale the product. We don't sort it. We don't clean it. We don't do anything with it. We just bale the product and then we ship it out on an ongoing basis. So we don't clean it. We don't sort it good from bad or anything like that. We just bale the product and we ship it out to the customers.
Okay. That's interesting. So when you just sort the clothes and send them out, do you have any -- I'm sure you've had to have issues with, you know, whether it's bedbugs or other infestation. Is that not an issue when you send the clothes 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 out? And I know this isn't directly related, but I'm just curious.
What happens is, when the driver goes to the donation bin, they sort the trash, number one. They pick up all the trash and they put it in a separate area in the truck. So that's kept separate from all the clothing. All the other clothing, if it's wet, if there's mildew, if they feel something is wrong with that, they put it in the trash cart, and then when it comes back, we discard it after we check it, because we go through -- unfortunately, we do get a lot of trash, and we pick up all of our trash. Once it comes back, we recycle. We try to recycle almost all of it. We separate all of our paper, our books, our cardboard, electronics. We donate toys. We try to minimize the amount of tonnage that goes in the waste stream. Number one, it's cost effective for us if we minimize that, and plus we're helping the environment as a whole. 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079
Okay. So when these clothes come in, they're not cleaned or sanitized in any sort of way, and then they go to this production facility in Horsham and then they're handled and bundled and sent abroad often, and that's what your production is?
Correct. When it's collected from the donation bin, it's taken straight to Hatboro, and there it's processed, being it's baled, and then it's shipped right out of that facility domestically or internationally, wherever the customer is based out of.
We don't sort anything. So if you go to a donation bin and you drop a bag in there, we'll pick 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 that bag up, we'll take it and put it in our truck, take it back to our facility, take that same bag and just throw it in a baler and make a bale out of it. We won't touch that product. We won't open that bag up. We minimize how many times we'll actually touch that product. We're not a clothes collector that collects it and sorts everything out of it good from bad. We send whatever we get to the end user, and the customer gets that product.
They then actually would go through and sort everything through that. The only thing we take out are some of our shoes that come out. That's the only thing we take out of it. Nothing else.
Thank 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 you, Madam Chair. Just quickly. Sir, I think when you were going over your suggested changes, I think the first one you said was that the bin operator could also make an agreement with the tenant or the lessee. Was that your suggestion?
I think the problem with that -- maybe Ms. Swanson could address it -- ultimately the property owner has to be responsible for the property, and I think if you don't make it with the property owner, the property owner could then say, Well, I didn't know it was there. And I think you said that oftentimes owners are hard to find. Well, I got to think the tenant knows where to find the owner. They have to pay them rent, right? So I don't see that, at least on that one, as a problem.
What's your thought on that? 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079
We've encountered it numerous times. In all the different cities that we operate in, it's very difficult to find the owners on numerous occasions.
We deal mostly with business owners. So we would just ask the business owner of that facility to sign off on it, and if they signed off on it, when it came back to the operations manager, then he would approve it and allow the placement of the bin.
But, I mean, in the end, the property owner would still be responsible, right?
Correct, or the owner of that business would be responsible. They would be held liable through the property owner.
But L&I can only cite the property owner, correct? They couldn't cite the lessee, 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 right?
Could amend it. If the tenant signs on behalf of the property owner, they'd be responsible.
Could Ms. Swanson just address that, please. (Witness approached witness table.)
The difference between an owner and a tenant for enforcement purposes and, my interest, for collection purposes.
For Property Maintenance Code violations, we would cite the property owner. So if there are tenants in the property that are committing -- their building is covered with graffiti or whatever, we would still 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 cite the property owner, because they are responsible for the conduct of their tenants.
So my point is that the owner would then -- for purposes of this bill and what the gentleman was asking, you really have to have the permission of the property owner rather than the tenant, right?
Absolutely. Absolutely. And because of the way the provisions of this particular bill, we would also be able to cite the bin owner, but the bin owner --
The bin owner would have to have the permission of the property owner, not just a tenant or business that is using that property.
So I'll just make the point that even for many of the very large buildings in places like 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 Manhattan and here in Philadelphia, there's a property management company, and it depends on the lease, and the lease can say that the tenant is responsible for everything and indemnifies the property owner and the property owner is responsible for nothing. So any type of fines or whatever that you give to the property owner then goes to the tenant anyway. And so I don't think it's a bad idea they're suggesting ultimately, that in addition to the bin operator, the property owner, that the tenant or the lessee, who may have a 20-year lease, could have a 30-year lease, could have a 15-year lease, that they be held responsible as well and ultimately just an additional party. What it does for them is that it gives them the opportunity if there's a tenant who is dealing with a property management company that you cannot get to the owner -- because a lot of times, for 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 example, even here in Philadelphia, the property management company is in New York and you never find the owner. You don't get through to them. What happens is, they can get authorization from the tenant, who is fully responsible for that property. And at any rate, it might help us as a city if we would do that in other circumstances, because that may be a hole where we are not effectively dealing with the property owner.
That's not something that we can do, because we don't get involved in leases. We don't get involved in private contracts between the owner and the tenant. That's not something that's really our business. We focus on the property itself and what the conditions are at that property. The property owner, under the Property Maintenance Code, is responsible to keep that property code compliant. So we don't want to get involved in the personal disputes as to who has what 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 lease, who is responsible under the lease. It's not something for L&I to work out. That can be civil court or however the owner and the tenant want to work that out.
I think one of our issues has been -- and Councilman Henon and I know Councilwoman Tasco has been working with this. Even when we require folks to give us a list of their property maintenance and their telephone numbers and so forth for the normal code stuff for residential properties, it's very hard to enforce. So it puts, as you said, L&I at a disadvantage.
If I can add. I'm sorry. If there is -- if there are licenses and proper documentation, we will have the information about the property manager as well who is acting on behalf of the property owner. Obviously 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 they need to have somebody in state if they are an out-of-state owner. So that information, if they have the proper licenses, we will be able to contact the property manager as well. We wouldn't be citing the property manager, but we would use them to get to the owner.
Yes. I just wanted to clarify that one of the problems that has been -- why we're having this issue is that there have been a proliferation of bins which don't have identification and they appear to be for-profit companies, and I think it's misleading. Many times people like to donate their clothing to the homeless and to people who need clothing, and if they know it's going overseas to some poor countries, I think they would be happy about that, but when these businesses are operated in a for-profit manner and are not being -- the cost of business of 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 maintaining them is not incorporated -- and it goes true for non-profits. You have to maintain them as well. But I appreciate your suggestions, and I think, quite frankly, if we remove some of these bins of these irresponsible companies and we identify that they're for-profit or non-profit, it would actually probably help you in your non-profit work. I do appreciate the good that comes of it, and I think people support that in general. So if you have these suggestions, if you would speak to the sponsor and the Chairwoman further to work out some of these details. Okay? Thank you.
Thank you so much. Any other questions for our witnesses? (No response.)
Seeing 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 none, anyone else here to testify on this bill? (No response.)
Seeing none, the Committee on Licenses and Inspection will close its hearing and enter its meeting. The Chair is going to recognize Councilman Greenlee for the amendment on Bill 150079.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move the adoption of the amendments to Bill No. 150079. (Duly seconded.)
Seeing none, before we move to final passage for the bill, the bill sponsor is willing to look at some of these things, and if 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 there's any additional amendments, it will be made on the floor. Do you want a suspension of rules?
Okay. So the Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee for a motion on the amended bill for 150079.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill No. 13 150079, as amended, be reported out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation and that the rules of Council be suspended to allow for first reading at our next session of Council. (Duly seconded.)
Seeing 3/10/15 - L&I - BILL 150079 none, Bill No. 150079, as amended, will be moved out of this Committee with a favorable recommendation and, further, rules of Council be suspended to allow first reading at our next public session. This concludes the meeting of the Committee on Licenses and Inspections. Thank you all. ) - - CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings, evidence and objections are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me upon the foregoing matter, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. -------------------- MICHELE L.