Okay, Ty is here.
Okay, ready to start?
Good morning, everyone.
My name is Bill Bergman, and I will be chairing this morning's meeting.
With me is our board member, Cheryl L. Gaston.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Or board member Tanetta Graham.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Or board member Michael Johns.
Present, Mr. Chairman.
Or board member Ty Wynn.
Ty should be on very shortly.
Also present is our attorney, Hillary Emerson.
Our zoning board director, Ian Haggerty.
And I should mention that Mr. Haggerty also has his son with him today, Jesse Haggerty.
And our board administrator, Lakeisha Dandy.
Recording of this hearing will be posted on the ZBA website.
By participating, you can send to be recorded.
This is an in -person meeting with remote capabilities.
Whether remote or in person, if you're called to speak, you must state and spell your name, then wait to be sworn in.
Once you've been sworn in, please state your name each time before beginning your testimony.
Any person may enter their appearance to become an interested party to the case.
There are three ways to enter your appearance.
You can identify the case property address on your Zoom webinar.
You can see a staff member, or you can call the ZBA appearance line by the close of business
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Call 267 -270 -5548.
Leave a message that includes your email address and the address of the property they appeal.
The following guidance is for our remote attendees.
First, when directed by the chair, you raise your virtual hand in order to be
recognized to speak. Second, if you are called to testify, you'll be prompted to join as a
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about the hearing. Do not comment on any case in the Q &A. And fourth, if you're participating by
phone, press star nine to raise your hand and star six to unmute. For our in -person attendees,
and I guess we have one, Mr. Richardson's here
from Council Member Bassett's office.
So please refrain from talking, eating or drinking
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Verbal and physical aggression will not be tolerated.
Restrooms are across from the elevator.
Water fountain is just outside the room to the right.
When speaking on the record,
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please follow the directions given
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the nearest stairwells to the left and outside the doors. In case of an evacuation, the rally
point is Love Park directly across Art Street. Please remain there so we can account for you.
So let's look at our schedule for today. Number one, MI 2023, 000489, 4800 North A Street.
John Griffin is the attorney. I understand he has a request for a continuance.
Mr. Chair, just a note for the record, it's 4400 North A Street.
Good morning, Chair. This is Nadia, and I'll be your co -host today.
John Griffin, if you're in the virtual audience, please raise your virtual hand.
Chair, I have somebody by the name of Jake Griffin with their hand raised,
and they are being promoted to panelists. Thank you.
Chairman Bergman, can you hear me? I can, sir.
please state your name and spell for the stenographer. Sure. John Griffin, G -R -I -F -F -I -N.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
I do, sir. Could you give us an update on your case at 4400 North A Street?
Sure. By way of some history, we had presented everything. I believe it was January 8th.
everything was in the record. In an effort to comply with the RCO's request, we were to
In an effort to comply with the RCO's request, we were to seek an amended refusal.
Hillary had advised us, I believe, a few days thereafter.
And candidly, we just dropped the ball and getting it done.
We thought the client was doing it.
Client thought we were doing it.
So we sent out to the board yesterday, as Hillary had previously instructed us, a request to the board to allow for that to occur.
We got an email this morning with a letter to the city for that.
We'll follow up on that immediately.
That's really all we need.
We should have accomplished it very soon thereafter.
And candidly, it just didn't get done.
And that's that's our form.
So MI 2023, 000489, 4400 North A Street.
This case is continued to 91625 at 9 .30 a .m.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you, sir. May I be excused?
You can.
Thank you.
Number six.
MI 2024, 004, 576, 5963 Kimball Avenue.
There's a request from Councilmember Bass's office relative to a continuance in this
case. Mr. Richardson's here, he's coming forward.
Mr. Richardson, just for the record, could you please state your name and spell for the
Certainly. Charles Richardson, R -I -C -H -A -R -D -S -O -N, Office of Councilwoman Cindy Bass Room, 508 City Hall.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
And hold on one minute. Is Stephen Gaines in the audience?
Yes, Chair. Stephen Gaines will be promoted to panelists. Please accept the panelists' promotion.
Thank you.
morning mr. Gaines how are you sir thank you could could you please state your name and spell for
the stenographer? Stephen Gaines. Stephen, S -T -E -V -E -N -G -A -I -N -E -S. All right. Thank you,
sir. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
I do. Mr. Gaines, I'm going to allow Mr. Richards here from Council Member Bass's office to say a few
words. Mr. Richardson, please proceed. Yes, sir. I communicated with Mr. Gaines a few days ago.
He was seeking to have a RCO meeting scheduled with the coordinating RCO.
They've had a hard time communicating, and unfortunately, they did not have a community meeting up until this point.
I told him he needed to request a continuous, and from that point, when you give him the next date,
then we will reassign it or have somebody tell him who the new coordinating RCO will be.
Thank you very much. Mr. Gaines, did you hear that?
Yes, I did.
And you agree with that?
Yes, I do.
Okay, so 5963 Kimball Avenue, this case is continued to 91625 at 930 a .m.
Thank both of you.
Thank you.
All right, then we have case number two.
MI 2024, 001 -548 -1307 Rodman Street.
Ann Johnson Sachs and Eric Sachs are the owners. This is a pro se. This is the third listing.
We understand we have an email, but not a letter requesting a withdrawal are the Sachs in the audience.
if you're in the virtual audience please raise your hand and johnson sacks and or eric sacks
i see no hands thank you so number two mi 2024 001 548 1307
robman street third listing no exhibits i vote to dismiss
michael aston my vote is to dismiss michael johns my vote is to dismiss
tenetta graham my vote is to dismiss
Tenetta Graham, my vote is to dismiss.
And number seven, MI 2025 -002 -171 -2626 East Allegheny Avenue.
and and no
This case has been withdrawn.
Thank you.
We're going to our first case, number three.
jesse haggerty will read the the address and the numbers into the record
mi 2024 -001644 -2135 west finango street thank you very much i'm a little concerned about my
job right now, but that's besides the point. Vern Anastasio is the attorney.
Good morning, and I think you should be concerned. He did a hell of a job.
Okay, let's take that down. Could you please spell your name
for our court reporter.
It's Vern Anastasio, A -N -A -S -T -A -S -I -O
for Sheree Minor, my client.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,
the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Do you agree to the waiving of the reading
of the special exception?
And do you agree with its accuracy?
Why don't you proceed?
Thank you.
and i and i should mention um the rco has sent us 90 signatures 58 from the immediate block
opposed and the applicant also has sent us 28 signatures five from the media block
yeah we have even more of that submitting today into evidence we have a 110 page
exhibit binder with lots of neighbors in support of this. My client is here. This is a special
exception. And as the board knows, that means what we're trying to do, the proposed use is
already assumed to be compliant and consistent with the code. So long as we can demonstrate
that the use will be executed in a way that does not hurt the community.
My client is looking to do what she's always done.
And now in this particular home, which is take care of young women who lack the fundamental blessing that most of us get in life, which is a family who loves them.
These children are these young women will not be coming from the criminal justice system.
They will not be coming from a drug and alcohol treatment program.
They're coming from DHS.
They're coming because they don't have a family who can care for them and give them the building blocks needed to have productive lives.
She wants to open up this property to them so that she can continue to do what she's always done, which is take care of these girls.
The property previously has been before you for a three -family dwelling, by the way.
um so in case that was something you wanted to take note of let's take a look at the property
itself here's the ground floor you come into the house there's common area dining area large kitchen
a bath we have a bed in the back bedroom in the back uh would be for the house mom
and then
there's our second floor
as you can see
mostly bedrooms, some common space
for downtime, for leisure time
and for school work
we're talking about eight or nine girls
of school age
obviously they've been
If they're in the system, they're certainly in need of behavioral therapy, which they would be, those arrangements and care would be made for them by the house, and they would be transported there.
Transportation would be provided.
And, of course, life skills.
Here's a third bedroom.
As you can see, another common area in the center, another full bath, and two beds on either side.
Let's take a look at some photos.
let's take a look at some photos very large property
It's a very large property.
Here's the exterior.
Here's the immediate area.
Lots of multifamilies in the immediate area as well.
this would not be a multi -family as you know this would be a single -family home we would
we need the special exception because she'd like to house more than three unrelated individuals
we just wanted to give you an idea of the
area itself
that's just the trash container that we'll be using
And here are some interior shots that I think you'll like.
My client's been doing this for many years.
And she has already submitted her paperwork for state approval for this particular site.
All of those materials have been submitted to you as evidence.
children will learn life skills resume building help them get it's a part -time employment help
them with schoolwork like i said take them to their therapist
and teach them how to handle the traumas of life,
which unfortunately at a very young age they've already experienced.
some raw pictures
you see it's very well very well done up very well maintained
there's proof of posting
here's the letter that went out to everyone inviting them to the community meeting and to the zoning board
Very few people from the immediate neighborhood actually showed up at the RCO meeting.
My client's going to explain her experience with the RCO meeting.
It was, let's say, different.
88 individual households were mailed.
They are the immediate neighbors.
They have proof that the taxes were paid.
And then we have our deed.
let's take a look at the site itself there are significant vacancies in the area
and this will breathe some new life into that particular property which i think as
you can see it's extraordinarily deep the lot
here are the signatures from neighbors
and please note all of these are from venango
and right around the corner
and here's more
we did meet with the 13th ward we'll get into that in a minute do want to take you through
some of the materials that were submitted this company will have a civil rights
compliance compliance requirements from the heart youth haven is the name of the residential
facility that Ms. Minor
would run.
From page 78, 79
onwards, all of this
to 110 was submitted by my client to the state of Pennsylvania.
Organizational chart, board member guidelines, committed to ensuring that all the staff receive
comprehensive training to provide a safe, nurturing, trauma -informed environment for
youth age 16 to 21. The training plan outlines required initial and ongoing training for
all employees, their specific training goals, their specific training hours, not only for
the director, but for the certified trainers and providers.
That's a pretty comprehensive plan.
There'll be exterior lighting and security cameras.
i'm like you're going to hear testimony from my client that she's been doing this for years
not at this particular site oh and that she's done very well and the the children grow up to
be very successful then we have more uh listing of classifications with the functions
Ms. Minor is my client.
They'll also have a director of programming,
childcare supervisor,
recreation workers.
There are a list of client rights and responsibilities
for each child coming into the facility from the system.
there are formal grievance policies
emergency evacuation plan for the property
and as part of our exhibit packet we also have insurances and all other
relevant information.
With that, I'd like to call my client
Sheree Minor to the stand.
You mentioned you were going to talk about the RCO.
Do you want to have her talk about it?
I want her to start talking about it.
Okay, sure.
Sheree Minor, if you're in a virtual audience,
Please raise your virtual hand.
They have been promoted to panelists.
Please accept the panelists' promotion.
Good morning.
Good morning.
Could you please state your name and spell it for the stenographer?
Good morning.
My name is Cherie Miner.
is spelled s -h -a -r -e -e last name minor m -i -n -o -r you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole
truth and nothing but the truth i do please proceed counsel thank you first miss minor
good morning miss minor first i'd like to ask you three uh housekeeping questions to get that out
of the way okay did you hear my presentation to the board this morning i did the true and accurate
to the best of your knowledge. Yes. And do you adopt it as your own testimony? I do. Okay. The
chairman had asked for some insight into your relationship and experience with this particular
RCO. So instead of hearing it from me, I think it's probably best if we put it on the record
from you. Do you mind explaining the experience? Yes, I do. Back in, during my first RCO meeting,
I felt like I was treated unfairly. I was cut off while speaking. And the only person that was entertained was my neighbor who lives next door to me, who's been trying to, I believe it's maybe like a five rooming house or apartments in that house.
And she's just been going around the neighborhood trying to obtain signatures, expressing to people that I am trying to do something other than what I'm trying to do.
I'm sorry.
Did you say she runs a rooming house?
No, she doesn't run a rooming house.
I believe it's five apartments next door to me.
And she rents a room.
She rents a room there.
I see.
So she's a tenant.
She's a tenant.
in and okay and in the apartment building next door okay yes and during
In and OK. And in the apartment building next door. OK.
Yes. And during the first RCO meeting, I was pretty much cut off several times by her stating that I was trying that the neighbors didn't receive the letters that I was trying to backdoor them.
I tried to offer my number to her. I tried to have a conversation with her, but she was just being unruly.
after the RCO she was allowed to keep cutting me off and anybody that spoke for me
was just kept being was in my favor just kept being placed on mute I mean the neighbors yes
also after the meeting I decided to be proactive and go door to door to obtain to introduce myself
to the neighborhood, explain to them what it is that I was trying to do. And everybody that I met
was for it. Everybody that answered the door was for it. The next day, I got word that she's been
going around the neighborhood getting signatures from different people, especially in the building
across the street in which I obtained signatures for them, for that building. When I tried to go
in and get more signatures. I was just, you have to be buzzed in. And I was just met with so much
resistance from one of her friends. So I decided not to go in that building again. And that's the
address at 2104 West Venango. And you believe the information to obtain those signatures was
based on misinformation about your mission. Is that right? Yeah. Or just her being, she has a
friend that live in that building. And I believe that, you know, she helped her, you know, walk
around well not believe um one someone who's going to speak
um a lot of the you know a lot of the residents feel bad for me she has been nothing but a nuisance
to the neighbor i don't really want to speak about her but this is expected of her and what
about the rco what about and then talk about the rco itself the second time you went uh the the rco
so during the meeting yeah charles corn during the meeting with you i want to say that he was
he wasn't it wasn't like when i was on a meeting with him the first time like i said the first time
he was you know he kind of like scolded me um he kept cutting me off while i was speaking
and he allowed uh the neighbor to do so as well and anybody that was for me you know he kept
cutting them off and putting them putting them on mute did you get a do you think you after two
meetings you got a fair hearing and presentation to the community without any interruption or issues
no thank you now let's talk about your mission because it's important now again the use that
you're proposing is already assumed to be compatible with this property uh the board
just needs to hear that you are professionally going to operate this home and your history
in doing so and your mission. So speak a little bit about that, please. Okay. I've been a foster
parent, a therapeutic foster parent since April 12, 2012, fostering nothing but teenage females
who are currently in DHS care. And that's what I plan to do so in this property as well. I have
I've also been a case manager for over a decade for at -risk youth in the city of Philadelphia.
I also have a letter of support from the director of that agency as well.
The name of my business is From the Heart Youth Haven.
And I actually have a letter that I don't know if you'll mind me reading.
Do you want me to share my screen or?
You could read it into the record. That's fine.
Okay. Okay. So I had, you know, when I was introducing myself, my name is Cherie. I am a passionate advocate for at -risk youth in our community. I have an identical twin sister, Marie Minor, and we are extremely close. For over a decade, my sister and I have been fostering therapeutic teenage girls together.
Growing up within walking distance of 2135 West Venango Street, I witnessed firsthand the challenges faced by our neighborhood's most vulnerable teenagers.
Since April 12th, since April of 2012, I have opened my home and my heart to teenage girls.
My decade -long career as a case manager for juvenile and adult probation has equipped me with the skills and passion to serve youth at risk of violence or drug abuse.
Our city faces a high demand for finding suitable placements for these teens.
Unfortunately, many are left sleeping on cots and floors in the Department of Human Services building,
hoping to find a foster parent like us to take them in.
With no more space left in our home, my sister and I decided to take action to better...
With no more space left in our home, my sister and I decided to take action to better support
teenagers in need. My sister opened a shelter and I opened a group home. This way we can provide a
more suitable living environment for these teenagers until they can find a permanent
placement. Today, I stand before you with a vision to transform these challenges into
opportunities for our youth. Currently, there's over 10 ,000 youth in the city of Philadelphia
that are homeless and that that's that's facts that's on the city website and i'm looking to
only house nine and it's up to nine in this property thank you thank you miss minor mr
chair at the rco meeting that i attended there was no uh absolutely zero uh testimony or discussion
about this particular operation, about this particular home, and about the care and programming
for these particular girls. It was, it was all about how the, there were complaints about how
the neighbors have had enough of too many people, too many children, and too much crime in the
community. Uh, it, it was, it was a quick de -evalation, uh, uh, into, uh, more of a, uh,
Ad Hahnemann attack on my client. And it ended with a final question from, uh, one of the members
of the committee where they asked, uh, why don't she open up across the street from my own personal
home? Uh, my answer is to her, to that RCO and to this board. If there were a property, uh,
available, I would welcome it. Ms. Minor is nothing but professional. Her vision and materials
speak nothing but professionalism, and her mission is she wants to open her house and her home to
these young girls who just need a chance. This board can give her that opportunity, and I ask
for that today. Thank you. Questions from the board? Yes, I have a question. So the photos that
you showed us were the interior of the property correct yes okay and so what are the plans for
the exterior that's the first question a lot of work go ahead miss minor i have got um i have
gotten siding done on the outside of the property and i plan to maintain uh trash removal and
landscaping and snow okay so my question is what um my other question is so what outdoor space
will be available for the youth,
whether it's in the front or the rear?
There's a large yard in the rear of the property.
The actual lot goes from street to street.
So it's extremely deep, over 100 feet deep.
So it's plenty of yard space.
Ms. Minor even mentioned to me
during one of our conferences
about starting some gardening for the girls as well.
Just show them how to take care of the earth
and take care and grow their own food.
So there's a lot of space back there for them.
And we're going to assume that it's going to be fenced in in the rear.
Yes, ma 'am.
Okay. So in terms of, and this,
I'm asking this question because it's going to have some,
especially the front footage would be something that the neighbors will get
to see. So what's the intent for the front yard of the property?
Just landscaping, you know, investment. It'll, you know,
an investment in the landscaping in the front so that it's a vast
improvement over what it is there now.
Am I still on mute?
Other questions for the board.
Yes, question.
So what age young women are we talking about?
Ms. Minor?
I'm going to do ages 14 to 20.
And the reason being is one girl that I currently have in my care is 19 and she'll be graduating 12th grade this year.
sometimes they'll let um sometimes their parents decide to hold them back or due to their
circumstances they might be held back a grade or two okay so and then how many how many bedrooms
are there or how many how many bedrooms are there in the house let's go back to the plan if you'd
like but go ahead miss minor you can speak while i scroll there's five uh bedrooms okay and you
said that there'll be eight to nine uh young women is that correct what we're talking about
so and then is there how many how many kitchens how many bedrooms one large kitchen is that right
miss minor yes it's one large kitchen i have a picture of that as well if you want me to share
my screen along with a nook set that has a uh in between a dining room in the kitchen
I have built a nook set that has a pull -out microwave, along with a beverage center and a sink.
i have uh built a nook set that has a pull -out microwave along with the bed
Scroll back to the first floor.
Yes, sir.
Go ahead, Cheryl.
I just wanted to.
Yeah. So we're going to have basically a communal sort of kitchen experience where we're going to be eating together and that kind of thing.
this is a family okay and then the uh uh are all these uh uh young women going to be in
high school is 14 high school already or how do we will they be going to school yes the answer is
yes they'll be going to school okay and and when they come home they you know there's
the education continues there's help at home this for the first time in their lives they'll have
help at home with with reading writing and arithmetic gotcha okay and then uh where will
these uh young women be coming from i think you said that they were dhs from the okay this is the
Department of, what is it, Human Services? Human Services. These are not kids coming out of
drug and alcohol facilities. These are not kids coming out of the criminal justice system.
These are kids who have no one and they end up in DHS. Okay. And now they'll have Ms. Minor
and her team. And how long, you said you've been doing this since 2012? Is that what I heard?
Yes. Okay. And then what is foster therapeutic care? Can you tell me what that is?
Just children who've been through a lot of challenges in life and are in need of therapy.
So we also have mobile therapists available. We partner with mobile therapists available to be on call to provide them with the therapy that they need.
So they will be having weekly therapy with a therapist because a lot of times when children are placed in the system, it's a high waiting list for it.
Sometimes it's a three to six month waiting list to even be seen by a therapist.
And we've partnered with several mobile therapists, and they're willing to supply support as needed.
When you say, I guess, I'm trying to figure out, the therapy is trying to...
Trauma.
Behavioral emergency.
Behavioral trauma.
trauma okay uh and that's of the uh either homelessness or whatever may have happened
in their home situation yes being abused the situation that pulled them from whatever
household they were born into and thrown into dhs you know when we all walk into the municipal
services building and i've been doing it for 30 years i'm sure most of you have and i've never
noticed it until recently at the front desk when you check in there's a kit a box and it says for
trauma and physical trauma right because we're always ready willing and able to treat physical
trauma but what about the emotional and uh and psychological trauma that these children have
gone through at five six seven eight ten years old ms minor this property is the kit for them
so and we're asking that you consider that all right thank you so the questions for the board
question ms minor i have a question um looking at the rco letter it seems that there has been
some support but there's also been some opposition what's your plan for the neighbors that may have
sign in opposition should you be granted today to address any concerns they might have moving
forward with your business or with the stewards in your care? Before Ms. Minor answers, I do want
to note that she did, in fact, already offer her phone number to everyone in the community.
And we even at the second RCO meeting that I attended, we offered a walkthrough, an open house
so folks can see that not only is this particular home going to be probably the nicest home on the
block, but it's not unlike any other home. There's nothing institutional about it.
But Ms. Miner may have more. Thank you. Yes, I was also, I was willing to offer my home,
give my number out to meet with the neighbors. I just want to be honest, the only people that I
I just want to be honest. The only the only people that I got to know from was friends of the neighbors of my one neighbor who's been, you know, verbally confrontational with me this whole time.
I got to know.
And even, you know, Charles Karn witnessed it during the RCO meeting as well.
I also partnered. I also went and introduced myself to the 39th Police District.
I also have a police sergeant, Dawn Thomas, who's listening in today, who also wanted
to testify, but because she's actually on duty, she just stated that she's not allowed
to, but she wanted me to let you guys know that she is in support of this.
And also the 39th Police District has also offered to keep a log at my facility and do
check -ins as needed.
yeah i think those are all great but i'm just wondering is there anything formal and like that
you're going to put in place because anybody that has your number now the neighborhood ebbs and
flows people move and come like what's going to be the formal process if at you know 11 p .m in
three months somebody has an issue and what like i think that's what this seems to be missing is
some sort of documented you know there's a sign call this number there's a you know that there's
some regular point of interaction for neighbors to be able to voice such concerns and to be able
to address you directly? What we did suggest at the RCO meeting was that the contact information
will be placed on the property itself so that at any time during the day or night, if there's an
issue, if a tree falls or if something else happens out front, that they would be able to contact
them. We did proffer that at the RCO meeting as well. Okay. And then my second question is,
typically when neighbors have concerns about this, there's two types of concerns. There's
concerns about the physical changes to the property and the effects that that might have
on any of their subsequent properties. I think you've addressed a lot of that in your testimony
today. But then there's a second concern about how to deal with sort of the new people that are
coming into their neighborhood so i my question for miss minor is in dealing with youth who have
you know had difficult lives and difficult backgrounds and are you know still processing
trauma there's often sometimes reversions of behavior there's difficult moments what do you
and your staff sort of do to address some of those or to even try to prevent some of those
when you are sort of living in a in a block with other people because like we've said this is not
an institutional facility where other measures might be taken. So what is the process when
things don't go as planned? When a child is placed with me, the plan is to have them fill out
required paperwork that I have actually drawn up to get to know them. And during that time, we,
you know, address each need, whether they need therapy, whether they need to be re -enrolled in
school. My plan is to keep them active. I also have a website. And on the website, we have,
you know, we have tutoring support. We have job, we help them with job readiness skills,
try to help them obtain employment. We also have exercise classes at the facility. We also have
hairdressers that are licensed cosmetologists at our sister, at the sister location who had,
that has a nail salon there and a hair salon where we can utilize to teach the kids how to maintain
how to maintain their hygiene and take care of themselves we also have cooking classes
we have paint your pain away therapeutic painting classes my job is to you know provide them with
everything that i could think of possible to help them um be better for our community we
also would like to, you know, I'm trying to have them come out, do street cleaning. Back when I
was younger, we had candy stripers. I'm trying to get them engaged in the community and help out
wherever is needed. I'm sorry, did I answer your question? You didn't. I have no further questions.
Thank you. Any other questions? Just a couple questions. So you and your sister will be on
site, are there any other staff that will be there? Yes, in accordance with regulations 3800.
On top of that, I would like to have two staff available at all times.
So there'll be two staff available 2407? Yes. Where will they be stationed? Is there an office
or is there a place? I imagine some of these individuals will be on medication.
how do you address the medication needs yes uh according to regulations
how do you address the medication needs yes uh according to regulations 3800 i have to have a
a lock box for a medication and i have one and yes there are uh office uh there is an office
in the back and it's a couple desks um it's there will there's a desk on each floor
and so and you've had these types of facilities are you been in this this space for uh since 2012
and has that been out of your house this other facility or it's just for the other facility or
there been more than just the the one uh the since uh 2012 has been out of my home so now
I have purchased a bigger home okay and how many children did you have there oh it's been
I'm sure I've serviced over well let's just say for the last I'll speak on the last four years
for the last four years, I've had the same three children since March 4th of 2021. I've had the
same children and one is going to come on and speak. She'll be going, two of my girls will be
going away to college this fall. One to Arcadia and one to Widener University. They've already
already been accepted. They also, one of them is number six in the 12th grade graduating class
and the other one is number 12
in the 12th grade graduating class
with the highest GPA.
Thank you, Ms. Minor.
Questions from our attorney?
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from the audience here?
Mr. Richardson.
Mr. Richardson, you've already been sworn.
Just for the record, state your name.
Charles Richardson, Office of Councilwoman Cindy Bass.
Mr. Richardson, pull that mic a little closer to you.
That's perfect.
Thank you, sir.
Not a problem.
Got a lot to unpack here.
First, to say something in defense of Mr. Karn.
He's not here today.
He's a ward leader.
This is Election Day.
A lot of his people are committee people.
They will probably not be able to be on here as well.
So I've heard a lot of characterization of what happened at the first meeting
and then uh tried to characterize what happened at the second meeting but there's nobody here to
speak to that uh you know i did we we are office during that first meeting uh or at following that
we got calls from our from from the community that said that they did not receive your letter also
so if they attacked you because of that because they did not receive the letter
that's you know that's that's a simple simple fact uh it was the second meeting um and uh you
You know, the second meeting, I would say that probably went better.
She had characterized it as having gone better and not she did not get attacked or anything along those lines.
So, you know, we're just we're just saying that looking at the situation, your mailing went out to 88 people to those of those 88 people, 60 from the petitions that have been circulated are opposed.
we got no petitions from you guys to vet verne knows i like to vet petitions i sit in for you
know for for our better vetting petitions using uh been verified which is a a a website and also
the city committee um a street list as well very good way to find out who's actually living in the
community. We haven't we haven't seen those petitions. The
question that was that I was going to ask was how many houses
that she currently have, you know, and she's saying that she
has one but she's trying to move into this one here. You
know, she's applied for applications with the state and
things like that seems a little bit pre you know that she's
got it gotten ahead of herself because we don't know whether
she's going to be approved here or not as yet. Support
from the 39th district the 39th district along with other police districts across the city of
philadelphia are not allowed to get involved in zoning applications there were zoning matters so
you know you know i'm trying to just be be fair with it with with the young lady but she's you
know they're trying to characterize it as being such a great thing but the overwhelming majority
of the neighbors are opposed and the councilwoman is opposed as well all right mr mr chair hold on
Do you have any questions for Mr. Richardson?
Mr. Short, please appreciate it.
Mr. Richardson, thank you for your testimony.
I just have a few follow -ups.
You did see the evidence of 88 pieces of mail
uh submitted by the vista uh by the vista uh company that all reputable zoning firms use
submitted by the Vista company.
you did see that in my evidence yes as you always do yes you did thank you uh and although you did
not receive them in advance to uh you say vet uh i'm sure you saw my presentation today and we did
have four or five pages of signatures of immediate neighbors did you see those i did not get to look
those petitions and actually compare them with the with the uh folks living in the area
understood which is what i do understood um and you did see the comprehensive plan for safety
for uh facility uh for uh grievance policies and and for all the other materials that we put uh
submitted to show the business plan that was also submitted to the pennsylvania's uh department state
you did see that yes verne that does not have to do with the neighbors the neighbors i understand
I understand. And you did. Did you hear my client's testimony that the 39th district has offered to use this home as a log in place for a a daily log in their routine?
Did you hear that testimony as they do with other businesses? And this is a business that's opening, just trying to open in that block.
I'm sorry, that's a business that's trying to open in that block and the 39th district.
They had they used us as a log in place up on Germantown Avenue.
Okay, so this is a residential facility, by the way, but yes, the answer is yes, you did hear that.
Okay, thank you. I have nothing further.
Thank you. Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
Yes, Chair, we have two hands up, or one hand, and Forster has been promoted to panelists.
Please just ask the panelists' promotion.
Good morning.
Hello, can you hear me?
Yeah, I can. Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Kayla Forster, K -A -Y -L -A -F -O -R -S -T -E -R.
You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Are you a neighbor?
No, I am a foster child of Cherie Minor.
And I wanted to speak on her behalf.
Please proceed.
Okay. Since I came to Ms. Miner's house, she has always been kind and welcoming towards me and every other person in the home. When she brought me around her family for the holidays, events, I felt included and made sure that what I needed was met.
during the times we spoke I felt I felt like I've learned something from her and I've also felt
that what I said was valued and important to her and she never pushed me aside or anything like
that and then in the four years that I've spent with Mishri she's she's also taught me how to be
independent responsible and on top of what I need to do she's also the one who encouraged me to get
a job, which is when I began working at a nearby laundromat in the Andorra area. And I come from a
home that doesn't have much income, but she not only gave me a job opportunity and taught me how
to better myself, she also offered my dad a job while working on the group home, which I very
much appreciate it because right now he's also struggling with the money income and that's all
I have to say. Thank you. Anyone else in the virtual audience? Yes, Chair, we have somebody
a number in 9965 and they haven't allowed to speak. Hi, could you please yourself? Sure.
good morning hi good morning could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer
sarita green s -y -r -e -e -t -a green g -r -e -e -n you swear or affirm to tell the truth told
truth nothing but the truth yes are you a neighbor yes please proceed
i want to say that i did meet miss minor um i did i attended the second community meeting
and i'm for the program uh she was very thorough she allowed me into the residence
and i will say it's a beautiful place i did tell that when we were on the meeting i was one of the
people that was cut off many times unfortunately they took a count and we were the count was four
They took a count, and we were, the count was four, but they said the count was against for the community meeting, and that was inaccurate.
but they said the count
I was on the call, and I just want to say what she showed and what she is doing, a lot of the community is four.
One of the people that was on the phone, unfortunately, would not put the real name.
She put her name as Boxer to intimidate, and she made a lot of allegations with no proof.
And I won't go too far into it, but I will say this woman has welcomed us into to see it. And unfortunately, I felt the RCO meeting was unprofessional and it was extremely biased. And I will end with saying I'm absolutely for it. Let's give this woman a chance and let's help some of these young people in our community.
All right. Thank you very much. Is there anyone else in the virtual audience?
Yes, Chair, we have one more hand. Edith has been allowed, been promoted to panelists.
Please accept the panelists' promotion.
I could, what was the name, Edith?
Yes, Chair, they are, as a panelist, they just need to start your video on your
Mike. Edith? Hello. Hello, everyone. Hi, Edith. Could you state your name and spell for the
stenographer? Yes, it is E -D. The correct spelling is E -D -I -T -H. Okay. Last name?
And it's Clark. C -L -A -R -K. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth,
the whole truth nothing but the truth excuse me i do are you a neighbor cold are you a neighbor
yes sir all right please proceed i just want to say that i i did attend the rca meeting the second
one um and there was a lot going on on on i'm gonna say on both behalves uh with miss minor
advocating what she's trying to do for the neighborhood. And I believe it's really for
a good cause. And as far as the neighbors, I'm just going to say on our behalf, it's just
some miscommunication, some things that were said to us. I was not aware fully until I attended
the meeting, what Ms. Miner was actually doing. I would just say between the neighbors and us
talking and polls of me really paying attention and attending the meeting, it really went well,
meaning I really value what she was doing, what she wants to do, and her coming over and speaking
with us engaging with us letting us know that her home is open and willing to talk with us
you know i felt that it was like a really good excuse me invite are you in favor of this project
i am in favor i just wish that more people would just stop gossiping and just listen to what she's
doing all right all right thank you very much for taking the time to call us we appreciate it
Was that the last hand?
No, Chair, we have two more hands up,
Charles Karn and Dulce Coyote.
Charles has been promoted to panelists.
Good morning, Charles.
Could you please state your name
and spell for the stenographer?
Charles?
Hello, Charles Karn. Mr. Karn, could you please state your name? It's bell for the stenographer. Charles, C -H -A -R -L -E -S -C -A -R -N. You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes, sir. You're the head of the RCO, am I correct? Yes, sir. Please proceed.
Sir, as stated, we had two RCO meetings. One was filed as a group, a daycare, and the other one as the group home for the children.
Let me first start with an opening statement. I feel slandered and disrespected by the applicant and Vern.
So chairperson, to run a meeting of this magnitude is rough.
Chairperson, to run a meeting of this.
I try to stay focused on what the referral or the refusal is about.
And that's why I'm trying to pull everybody in.
Everybody wants to speak.
I've got to mute a couple of folks because of going back and forth.
One of the directly neighbors who live right there thought something was going on and it wasn't filed.
So I guess they came back with a filing and that's where we started.
The lawyer stated they have many vacant homes around it. That's incorrect.
I just feel bad about that. I've been in the neighborhood for over 42 years, right and walking distance.
so that's not a problem for me. One of the things that happened is, and I think the program is a
great program, and it's a business, and this is putting a business in the RSA3 district here.
Also, some of the things that people who did speak did not live in the community, and I allowed
them to speak and gave them an audience. I didn't cut
anybody off, but there was also a lot
of interruptions going on, and that's what I was trying to stay focused on.
During the presentation,
I wasn't nitpicking, and I wasn't as the person
who was the moderator, but she also said that she's going to have two
staff members 24 -7. If you look on that first floor,
that's the back bedroom back there. Now, what we were told it was only
one person there, so I don't know where that came from.
And I do understand the direct of 3 ,800. Some of the
issues that came up was about
one of the directly said, look, right, if the
business goes there, how will it affect my property value?
And many thought it would decrease their value of their home if you
had a group home there. And some of the issues she did explain about the trauma that may come
with this business being approved there. So that's why they opposed it. If you look at our package
that we submitted, the 13th Ward, we have probably 90 signatures of the directly affected residents.
And if you look all the way down, all the way through, that's Venango Street, Erie Avenue, 22nd Street, and 21st Street.
These are people who live right there.
We, they did put some letters out, and like someone said, everybody, some people came on and said they did not get a letter.
So what we do is when we put a flyer out, whatever, we always say in that particular area, please notify your neighbor.
Now, when you do log on to a 13th Ward RCO meeting, we ask you, how do you know about the meeting and where do you live at?
So we can get so we can almost vet, you know, who's on.
Well, a couple of the folks did not want to give their address.
They just said, I live in a neighborhood.
And they were pro for the business.
So that was our concern, is, again, what's going to affect the people who live right there?
And if anyone comes on to a 13th Ward RCO community meeting, I try to stay as focused as possible, trying to narrow and not get too far away from why we're on that meeting, sir.
All right.
Mr. Corn, hold on a minute.
Vern, do you have any questions? No, I do not. Okay. Mr. Corn,
thanks for taking the time to call. Sure. I appreciate it. Anyone else in the audience?
Yes, Chair. The last person they'll say is being promoted to panelists. Okay.
could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer um they'll say d -u -l -c -e
coil c -o -y -o -t -l right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the
truth yes are you a neighbor no all right um are you in favor this project or against
yes are you in favor or against in favor thank you for taking the time to calls we do appreciate it
thank you um that planning commission mr chair i'm sorry chair we do have one more hand up
number ending in 3552 they have been allowed to speak
Number ending in 3552, they have been allowed to speak.
shake.
Hello?
Adrienne, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Yes, Adrienne Fernandez.
My last name is spelled F -E -R -N -A -N -D -E -Z, one little R -C -O.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Adrian, are you for the project or against?
Opposed, and I would like to give some more information.
Please.
First of all, I had to request a corrected or amended refusal on December 4, 2024, and that was completed.
Neighbors probably were confused because the first refusal asked for a boarding house.
The second one, corrected one, asked for commercial child care, and that gave the impression that we were talking about occupants between the ages of infancy and 12.
So I know one person had said that they were a bit confused about what the project was about, and part of that was that the original refusal was incorrect.
But the Tioga area where this address is located has too many group homes, and over the years, the affected RCOs in the area have worked hard to not increase the number of group homes.
There's group homes of every type, many with high -risk residents, and this would fall in that category.
Um, I, I respect the, um, the one, uh, graduate of the program who is doing very well. And she also talked about how her, the program helped her father. Um, however, two people to control, um, 12 high risk occupants is risky for the neighborhood in general, especially being as they are teenagers.
Of course, today is voting day, so that made it difficult for neighbors to come on to the Zoom
or to actually physically attend the hearing.
And another issue is we're not clear whether this is going to be a maximum or a request
for a maximum of nine teenagers or 12 teenagers
because the appeal application says 12,
but I heard the owner today say nine.
So there needs to be more discussion if this was approved
and before it is approved because this is a high -risk project
in a RSA for any residential community,
And this committee really has too many. The only ones that don't cause a problem are the veterans housing and senior housing.
But a lot of the transitional housing has been very difficult for a child and has contributed to people moving out and the decline, which we are trying to reverse.
And we have been pretty successful in doing that over the past 10 years.
That's pretty much the most important comment that I have.
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. Do you have any questions? No, I just object to Adrienne's entire testimony.
Her testimony that group homes, there's too many in this particular neighborhood. We don't even
know where she's getting her information. Classifying these children as high risk is
inaccurate and offensive. And I'm going to leave it at that. Thank you. Okay, thank you.
I do have a closing though, Mr. Chair. Do you have your closing?
I do, and I'll be really quick. We just spent a considerable amount of time going through the materials, 110 pages. You heard specific evidence of professionalism, of programming, of dealing with the issues in the community, of dealing with issues in the house. There is a program and a plan for all of it.
um so uh you know we've overwhelmingly met our burden because this is a referral not a refusal
in demonstrating a clean professional home that will be you know will nurture these these girls
what you didn't hear is one protestant testify that met their burden uh you didn't hear one
shred of evidence that this particular home would adversely impact anyone uh you there was no
testimony or evidence given that my client could not adequately run this home. And it is a
residential home. This, it's not a business. It's a, so that's also, also.
It's not a business. So that's also, and I'm sure it's obvious to the board, this isn't a popularity contest, okay? This is a court of law. Whether I have five pages of supporters and they have 15 pages of opponents, none of that matters.
What matters is, will this use adversely impact the community or impact the community at all
any more than a place like this should?
And the answer, based on overwhelming evidence, is that it will not have an adverse impact.
And Kayla, the young woman who testified, I challenge anyone to tell me that Kayla is
going to bring down anyone's real estate value if she moves into this house. So thank you for
listening. Thank you very much. Planning Commission. Thank you, Chairman, and good
morning. David Fecteau, F -E -C -T -E -A -U, with the City Planning Commission. Do you swear or affirm
to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes, sir, I do. Please proceed. Thank
you, sir. Chairman and board members, the comprehensive plan recommends a change in
zoning at this location from rsa3 residential single family to rm1 residential multi -family
under the proposed zoning group child care would be permitted by special exception as well
the appellant has shown that the proposed special exception will have no detrimental impacts beyond
what might be expected the city planning commission recommends the board grant the
proposed special exception for group child care hold on our attorney wants to say something here
yes um mr chair i wasn't aware that there was a corrected refusal here so um it if the
if the board would indulge me i'd like to hold the ask for the vote we're gonna hold okay because i
just i want to check into that because we want to make sure we're voting on the correct refusal
so a referral thank you so verne we're going to hold this vote uh we've heard a lot from
both sides for this and we want to sit and just work it out among ourselves where we stay
can i ask a question here sure question the um so if you're going to have individuals there
between 18 and 20 they're not children 14 and 20 well i'm saying but there's some if somebody's
going to be serviced that's 18 years older or more. That's not a child. How are we talking
about a child care? You know what I mean? Well, that's a classification that I'll leave to L &I,
but as a father of a 19 -year -old, he's completely dependent on, these young people are completely
dependent on... There's a 30 -year -old that lives in your basement. By law, an 18 -year -old is an
adult. So how is that a child? You know what I mean? Well, that's something for L and I to deal
with. So what all has been said, Vern, the board needs some time to take a look at this. We will
vote on this next Wednesday at 9 30 a .m. So what's the date next Wednesday? The 28th. The 28th. We
will vote on this at 9 30 a .m. Thank you very much. We appreciate your one other point to Mr.
John's question. It's very, very important. The child is in, in school at 18, 19, and 20 years old.
They, in fact, can be dependent. So that's just something to think about. I don't know how that
impacts the classification for L &I. That's for them. But I just wanted to put that on the record
in the event we need to take this further. You said that. Well, we'll, we'll, we'll consider
that all will be thank you this week okay thank you number four mi 2024 004 330 437 north 52nd
street tamika mccoy is the attorney this is a resumptive hearing good morning everyone good
morning could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer sure tamika mccoy
t -a -m -i -k -a last name is m -c capital k o -y do you swear or firm to tell the truth the whole truth
nothing but the truth yes um so we this is a resumptive hearing and the way we um have uh
have outlined this there'll be a presentation by you and or your applicant on updated plans
We will then have questions from the board, from our council.
We'll take public testimony and the planning commission will make a recommendation.
So why don't you start, council, and give us an update of where you stand.
Sure. I will start kind of from the back.
We did have an RCO hearing in which there was support for the project.
an RCO hearing in which there was support for the project. There were concerns that the neighbors
had expressed that the owner had contemplated to incorporate within the design of the plan.
When we initially had presented, I had submitted the application. Essentially, it is an application
to seek a variance to create a daycare on one floor and a residential unit on the second floor.
It's a three -floor structure that has a basement, a first floor, and a second floor.
The issue was the design of the plan in terms of the trash plan.
Again, we have here a copy of the refusal.
This is a photograph of the front of the building.
There are two doors, one that enters the second floor unit, one that will enter the first floor unit.
The basement has a bill called door access.
This is looking directly across the street.
And then this is looking to the property.
property. There are other businesses also on the same block. Along the side here is going to be a
ramp. And that ramp is going to be ADA compliant for disabled persons to be able to get in and out
of the daycare or for mothers to just be able to use the ramp to use a stroller if need be.
This is a post of the sign here. And I'm going to go straight to the plans so that we could
Let's see exactly what it's contemplated in this design.
The center depicts essentially the daycare location.
Oh, my apologies. What would the yard and an office or a bathroom area that would daycare facility? So that way you can have the front door entrance, the side entrance that's accessible from the ramp, and also a back door entrance.
The trash plan contemplates that the trash will essentially go to the rear of the yard and then will be brought to the front on a day at the back of the ramp so that the trash could be taken to the back of the yard.
On the second floor is a living room kitchen space here with a three -piece bathroom, sleeping areas in the front and also in the rear, and there's also another bedroom here.
The ceiling heights for the second and the third floor is 10 foot, so it'll be 10 foot high ceilings.
the lower level basement is actually going to be used as a prep space for the daycare.
In that basement area is going to be a bathroom as well, but the office and a prep area for
prepared lunches and breakfast would be downstairs. So this is where
refrigerator, all of that kind of stuff would be, and this is where the actual office for staff
would be. What I'm going to do, let me see if I can, I'm not sure if that would be helpful. Is
this better for you? That's better. Okay. And I'm going to zoom in just a little.
The basement has a seven foot ceiling height, but the other floors are 10 foot.
That was one of the questions that came up during the last meeting as well.
But the main concern was incorporating a separate entrance for the second floor and also the
ramp that's accessible to both the first and second floor so that the trash can be set
aside in the back.
That basically was the main concern in terms of the trash storage and pickup. Operating time for the daycare is going to be essentially 6 a .m. to 5 p .m. That's the contemplated time for operation. And with that, I would submit for any questions the board may have.
Questions from the board.
how many children are you planning to accommodate on the property
and what are their age ranges i believe it would be uh less than 10 and it will be us
I believe it would be less than 10, and it will be six months to five years old.
And given that the first floor is one big open room, is there going to be any separation based on age?
To make it, did you hear that?
So I will leave that to Mr. Ragunanan, who is the, yes.
anticipates that there would be separation that would be made by bookshelves and different
compartments, not fixed walls. Okay. I don't think I have any questions.
Other questions? Yeah. The basement, you utilize the basement also. Is that what we're seeing?
Yeah. Yes. The daycare is going to utilize the basement primarily to like prepare breakfast, lunches, that sort of thing. And also the office space.
Okay. What's the height of the basement?
Seven foot.
Seven foot.
And where's the trash going to be stored?
So the trash is going to be stored at the rear of the property.
the ramp has steps that'll be on the back that would access the backyard. So both the second
floor and the daycare tenant would be able to put their trash back there until it's time
to bring it forward for trash pickup. Is it going to be enclosed in the rear?
And are the children going to have access to the rear yard to play outside?
so there is a um fence that um is currently um bordering the rear and making it basically
private the daycare would have access they have a direct um outlet here so they would have access
to the rear yard uh in terms of development you know i'm not sure how they're going to utilize
that. There are parks also in the area that the kids can go to, but I'm pretty sure what they
will do with this area is allow for some daytime activities, weather permitting.
Thank you for updating the plans. They're clearing it. Questions from our attorney?
Ms. McCoy, did you say there would be approximately 10 children in this facility?
I think it's up to yes. Okay. I'm just a little confused because the refusal says child care
center, which is 13 or more children typically, excuse me, typically. I know the state has a
little bit different categories, but I'm wondering why this isn't being categorized as a group
child care if it is only up to 10 children. That could be my error. I'm going to ask Mr.
Raghunanan to enter and perhaps you could clarify that point if that's okay.
Mr. Raghunanan, could you please raise your hand?
Mr. Raghunanan, if you're in a virtual audience, please raise your virtual hand.
i see no hands
it would have been helpful too if he had that listed on the the drawings you know what i mean
because there's a certain square foot, square footage requirement for children.
Okay. I'll take that under advisement. And I'm sorry, I was on mute before. Um, and I just had
a question about, is there any soundproofing between the, um, daycare center and the, uh,
living space above? Oh, yes, yes. It's essentially insulation, soundproof insulation that would be
used between floors. This talks about the sheathing and the design of the structure,
but there would be soundproof insulation that would be installed, both in the walls and ceiling.
And I guess my other question is, there are, depending on the age of the child and whether they're capable of self -preservation, there are rules about how many exits and entrances you need to have for children that are like two and younger.
So did I hear, what age children are we talking about here?
What age children are we talking about here?
six months to five years.
Six months to five years.
So, yeah, as part of what you're doing here, there's going to, well, I'm not sure if you've had the plans reviewed yet,
But there's sometimes requirements for like extra sources of ingress and egress.
And for children who are like younger than, I think it's two or three.
I'm not sure which one.
So just a comment that there's going to need to be at least some recognition about that.
And some arrangements made to make sure that these children who are not necessarily capable of self -preservation can be evacuated in case of some sort of emergency.
Okay. That's a great point. Thank you.
There are three that are contemplated as part of the plan.
One at the front, one at the center here, and then there's also one at the back.
I believe Mr. Ragunanan is raising his hand now.
Mr. Ragunanan, if you're in a virtual audience, please raise your virtual hand.
I see no hands.
okay so excuse me miss Hillary do we want to hold this jet except for it so I just had another
question just to help clarify the use um Ms. McCoy the rental unit um above is that is the
property owner living there and operating the business on the first floor and basement or is
that going to be a separate tenant uh it's going to be a separate tenant the property owner uh lives
next door. He owns the adjoining property. Okay. All right. So it would seem that the
appropriate use that in this case is a group child care because the owner does not live on
the premises. So I think we need to have the refusal amended to reflect the correct use
if we're looking at fewer than 13 children. Okay. So we're going to continue this, right?
AM I CORRECT? I THINK WE WOULD NEED TO CONTINUE AND ASK FOR AN AMENDED REFUSAL. I DON'T KNOW IF
PLANNING IS PREPARED TO GIVE ITS TESTIMONY AT THIS TIME, BUT I THINK WE NEED A REFUSAL THAT
ACCURATELY REFLECTS WHAT IS BEING REQUESTED AT THE LOCATION. I'M SORRY, MR. REGUNANAN
IS COMMUNICATING BY TEXT. HE SAID HE'S RAISING HIS HAND. HE SAID IT'S GOING TO BE 13 KIDS THERE
um at the child care i don't know if there's any opportunity to try once more for him to
be admitted into the meeting
all right one more time please there's someone named marcella seltzer raising yeah that's the
only person with the hand raised is that who you maybe he's using this device maybe that's what
the issue is okay so they will be promoted to panelists marcella please assist the panelist
good morning my name is marcella sesler m -a -r -c -e -l -l -a sesler s -e -t -z like in zebra l -e -r
is this your client uh yes uh he she works with my client
so but is your client there is what i'm saying miss miss sesler yes
is mr ragun and i'm going to be attending or are you
he should be he should be on on here because i spoke with him this morning
well miss sessler um can you describe what your relationship is to the child care
is this going to be your witness now and not the other person to make it yes while she's here so
that way we can address okay all right could you please state your name and spell for the
stenographer he's he's saying that he's on the meeting but he's not being able to connect
okay to me okay can you spell your name for the stenographer please
marcella m -a -r -c -e -l -l -a sexler s -e -t z like in zebra l -e -r okay and what's your
Z, like in zebra, L -E -R.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes, I am.
All right.
And Tamika, we're looking for numbers from this person, am I correct?
Correct.
Can you tell us what your relationship is to the project?
Mr. John Raguni is actually leasing the building to me for the daycare.
How many students do you intend to service at the building?
I was intending on doing 13 to 15 children.
I didn't hear that.
Could he do it?
Please do it again.
Could you repeat what?
13 to 15 children.
I mean, we believe there's room for 15 students there.
according to the
the size
when they do the measurements
it's 40 square feet per child
is that just on the first floor
am I correct?
the planning taking position yet
planning
good morning chairman david fechter with the city planning commission chairman and board members
the comprehensive plan recommends no change to the rsa5 residential single family zoning at this
location a child care center is defined as a facility for 13 or more children and is prohibited
in rsa5 there is no unique physical condition or circumstance that would prevent this property
from being used in strict conformity with the zoning code the city planning commission recommends
that the board deny the proposed use variance for a child care center and for multiple principal
uses on the lot all right thank you to me we're going to hold this vote and we'll vote next
Wednesday the 28th at 9 30 a .m and we'll take everything that's been said under consideration
okay okay thank you thank you all right so number
number five mi 2024 004 331 1900 hoffnagel street jermaine harris is the attorney
mr harris yes good morning can i be heard and seen you you you we we hear you and see and
you notice we waited for you too and i appreciate i appreciate your grace please
please state your name and spell for the stenographer uh sure jermaine harris uh and
of council for uh the owner uh this is 1900 hofnagle street so this is a resumptive hearing
and mr harris this is uh what we suggest you're going to present interior photos to the board
yes questions from the board yes we'll take additional public testimony and we'll see a
recommendation from the planning commission so you just you might want to take a couple sentences
and say where we were and then talk about the photos okay so where we were is that
for this property we are seeking to legalize additions to the building and there were questions
as to what although photos were presented of the exterior there were questions as to what was going
on on the inside of the building i'd like to note that uh there was uh approval from or support
rather from the rco and that was really the big question is is what was on the inside of the
of these additions that were that that were being proposed so let me share my screen
All right, so this is the refusal.
These are the plans, and what we were talking about here, what additions we were talking about, is this was being enclosed right here.
And it actually became this.
And then this right here became this.
And then this right here.
So, again, there were questions as to what this was and what this was, if you may recall.
We recall.
All right.
these are all right so this is as to the exterior and the enclosed this is a more
closer view of it from the exterior and this is the interior of what it looks
like right here now as far as the raising of as far as the second enclosure
or second edition that was the kitchen and that's what this is right here
as well as right here as well.
And this is another angle of what it is.
And this is the door leading out from the kitchen.
I also have my client on the call right now,
and I can promote him or I'd like to have him promoted
so that way he could answer any questions
as to any specific uses that may be asked
that I can't specifically answer.
Okay, bring him on, please.
Mr. Rodriguez?
Can you raise your hand, please?
We have a Damaso Rodriguez with your hand raised.
Would that be your client?
All right.
Damaso Rodriguez, please accept the promotion to panelists.
Good morning.
How you doing, guys?
Good morning, Mr. Rodriguez.
Could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
My name is Damaso.
My last name is Rodriguez.
Could you spell it, please, for the stenographer?
B -A -M -A -S -O, last name R -O -D -R -I -G -U -E -C.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
Yes, sir.
All right, please proceed, counsel.
So, Mr. Rodriguez, did you hear the testimony that I just gave before this board?
Yes, correct.
And do you adopt what I just said?
okay so uh the the picture is pretty much there may be some questions that the board may ask
as to the use of it so we would at this point uh we would open it up for any questions that anyone
may have as to uh these particular two areas so so in the front he basically uh enclosed the porch
and made it part of the living room is that correct yes that's correct right and he did
that without permits yes all right and then he enlarged he enlarged the kitchen with that
bump out addition and then went straight up all right is that just ceiling there
it's the ceiling he didn't went to the second floor that's only a first floor addition that's
right it's the first floor addition but it goes up to the second floor am i correct
um not completely it's only to the first floor all right questions from the board
so what's the height of the the new kitchen portion now
yeah i have it say it again i'm sorry um mr rodriguez you can answer that question
yes 10 feet high okay other questions from the board yes can we
I see part of the kitchen here, the wall there.
What's on the other side there, or is that the entire space?
Where's the refrigerator?
If you can see it on your left -hand side of that picture, right there,
it's right there the kitchen is there right now.
It's the L kitchen.
so there's no okay so all them okay so that's where the refrigerator and the stove and the sink
So that's where the refrigerator and the stove and the sink and all of that is?
and all of that is
Yeah, that's correct.
That's behind that wall right there.
And what's on the other side of this wall?
That is the addition.
That's like extra family room.
That's the addition that was already added to it.
So that additional family room, how high up is that?
It's 10 feet high.
You can see it in that picture below.
Wait, so just for clarity, so the addition extended the kitchen and also created space for this family room.
Is that correct?
It's more as an extension for the family room.
The kitchen stays the same size.
So you made a family room in the rear, and you made a bigger living room in the parlor area, right?
That's correct.
And no permits with anything, right?
Yeah, it's being legalized.
What's that again?
That's correct.
When it was done, they didn't know that they had to get a permit.
So no, it's not legalized right now.
Is that true?
No, I have a question, because when you came in before, you testified that Mr. Rodriguez was an architect. And so I want to know, like, what drove the decision or the assumption that no permits were necessary? And did you use a license and bond electrician in the city of Philadelphia to do the electrical work? Because Atlas shows you having a violation for all three.
and that the violation happened in august of 2023 so then my my secret question is
what took two years for us to address this well the one thing i'll say is i know that mr rodriguez
wasn't involved with the he wasn't the architect that was involved with this i believe they did
this without I think they I don't know uh Mr. Rodriguez did was this done without plans
yes it was done without plan and then the client contact us so he can go to the procedures
the process to have everything according with the city so that's how we became involved
okay and you did the as built to document the conditions as they were
Did you do any physical needs assessment or structural review of what was built when you did those plans?
When we did those plans, we weren't based on what was done already.
And then our knowledge, when everything was done, it was according to the code.
So that's why we was involved with the case.
Both building and electric?
Building and electric, that's correct.
Okay. And was any plumbing or HVAC run to the new parts or the new extensions?
No? So how are they heated and cooled?
It's the open area. So they're still using the one that was for the kitchen.
It's still able to use that for the back room. So it was not addition or nothing.
It was just the same assistant one.
Other questions?
Questions from our attorney?
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.
Questions or comments from the virtual audience?
I see no hands.
Planning Commission. Thank you, Chairman, and good morning. David
with the City Planning Commission. Chairman and board members, the comprehensive plan
recommends no change to the RSA3 residential
residential single family zoning at this location, the appellant appears to have built in addition without the benefit of permits proposal for parking in the required front yard is an existing condition and is unlikely to injure the use of adjacent property.
The city planning commission recommends of the board grant requested dimensional variance for parking in the required front yard, but deny the proposed dimensional variance for rear yard depth.
I see you looking and I didn't note on the refusal that there was a variance for parking,
but this is an RSA three so parking would be required.
They eliminate the parking space as part of this application, Mr.
I don't see here.
I don't see here.
you know
I don't see that there was an elimination of a parking space.
No, parking space is still the same.
There was no elimination of the parking space.
Can you just go back to the refusal for a second?
To maintain a system parking.
It wasn't noted on the refusal, but there is one accessory off -street parking space still
at the property?
hold on let's go to the front again
hold on let's skip this
did the additions change where the parking was located no hold on i don't think it did
utilizing an existing condition okay
all right that's right that's okay all right thank you all right so great so mi2024
004 -331 -1900
Hofnagel Street. I vote yes
with proviso.
Certificate of occupancy must
be obtained.
Michael Johns, my vote is yes with proviso.
Cheryl Gaston, my vote is no.
Tanada Graham,
my vote is yes with proviso.
Taya Nguyen, my vote is yes with proviso.
Thank you, counsel.
Thank you, Yarno.
Is there anyone in the audience
whose case has not been called?
Thanks, everyone.
I see no hands.
Okay, thank you all.
Thank you.
We appreciate it.
Went a little bit longer than we thought.
But thanks, and we'll see everybody tomorrow morning.
All righty.
See you then.
Take care.