civus
Minutes

Committee Hearing, April 6, 2009

Philadelphia City Council Committee HearingsApr 6, 2009

People mentioned

Names our system found in this transcript. Automatically extracted, so it can include anyone named in the record, not only officials or parties.

Organizations mentioned

Councilman Green

I'm confused. The budget detail shows only one Chief Investigator.

Ms. Kurland

The other Chief Investigator really -- I have made that person a supervisor even though their salary range is that of a regular investigator. She has her own investigations and she also supervises the other investigators.

Councilman Green

Okay. So she is one of the eight investigators?

Ms. Kurland

That's correct.

Councilman Green

And what does the First Deputy Inspector General do?

Ms. Kurland

She's like a chief of staff. She supervises everybody in the office and assists me in administrative matters.

Councilman Green

So she 95 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. doesn't do any investigation?

Ms. Kurland

She also does some investigation.

Councilman Green

How much of her time is spent in a supervisory capacity and how much of her time is spent in investigation? (Bell rung.)

Ms. Kurland

Approximately 75 to 80 percent supervisory.

Councilman Green

And obviously Inspector General, you are primarily a supervisor?

Ms. Kurland

I don't supervise -- I am part of supervising the direct investigations, but I also perform the liaison activities with our law enforcement partnerships in the DA's Office, the U.S. Attorney's Office, the federal investigative agencies, as well as the Controller and my work with the Chief Integrity Officer.

Councilman Green

Okay. And Inspector General Assistant, what does 96 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. that person do?

Ms. Kurland

That's our lawyer, and he supervises the Integrity Officer program, contracting issues and other legal issues that come up with regard to civil service appeals, administrative arbitration appeals and that type of thing.

Councilman Green

I'm sorry. So what do you do in the area of administrative appeals? Is this if you fired somebody for cause? It's not a City Solicitor function?

Ms. Kurland

If a department fires an employee based on our recommendation and that employee appeals, our investigators have to appear before the Civil Service Commission and the lawyer in our office represents our interest there.

Councilman Green

Okay. And what's an Investigative Analyst?

Ms. Kurland

An Investigative Analyst does computer database research. 97 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. When we get a complaint, say, that somebody doesn't live in the City, the Investigative Analyst will search the City records and the Lexis-Nexis type records and provide a report that goes back to the agency.

Councilman Green

Okay. And you have two of those people?

Councilman Green

Eight investigators, can you describe their kind of daily job function?

Ms. Kurland

Yes. They have a mix of administrative investigations and criminal investigations. The administrative investigations involve generally higher-level people within the departments who are alleged to have committed fraud, corruption, any other kind of misconduct. They interview people. They review documents. They search City records and such. On the criminal side, they do a preliminary investigation and then work 98 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. hand in hand with law enforcement at the federal, state and local levels to further the criminal investigation. So they have a mix.

Councilman Green

Okay. So you've gone from to positions; is 8 that right? 9

Ms. Kurland

There are -- yes, 10 but two of those positions are police 11 detectives who are detailed to the IG's 12 Office and one of them is detailed from 13 the Bureau of Prisons. So there's 16 -- 14 well, it's 19. 15

Councilman Green

But those 16 wouldn't be included in your 19 here, 17 right? 18

Ms. Kurland

No. They are 19 included in the 19.

Councilman Green

So are they investigators to the police officers? Where are they in your chart here?

Ms. Kurland

They're not in this chart because they are part of the Police Department and they operate -- 99 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc.

Councilman Green

So that's my question.

Ms. Kurland

Oh, I see. I'm sorry, sir. I misunderstood. They are not part of the 19. Part of this 7 includes some vacant positions. 8

Councilman Green

Okay. How 9 many vacant positions are there right 10 now? 11

Ms. Kurland

There are two 12 vacant investigator positions and one 13 vacant auditor position. 14

Councilman Green

So you've 15 already gone up to 19 from 12 even though 16 we're not in FY10? I'm confused. 17

Ms. Kurland

This is FY10. 18 There are 19 -- 19

Councilman Green

Right, but there were appropriations for 12 people in FY09. How are you spending more money than was appropriated?

Ms. Kurland

I think the -- I'm not certain I understand. The money that has come from other departments is 100 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. what has been the increase.

Councilman Green

Was there a transfer ordinance for that?

Ms. Kurland

No. There was a Memorandum of Understanding between the two departments, between the departments.

Councilman Green

I'm sorry. Do you have a legal opinion that that's permitted?

Ms. Kurland

One minute.

Councilwoman Tasco

We're allowing the Councilman to continue this line of questioning so his thoughts will not be broken. He's taking my time and we only have two people waiting, if that's okay with my colleagues. If you do not like that decision, that's all right.

Mr. Armbrister

Councilman, I think the answer is that as long as we stay within our overall appropriation, she's still part of the Mayor's Office, that we are able to effectuate the kinds of changes that Amy had talked about with 101 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. respect to those 12. And we're staying within the overall Mayor's appropriation because of other cuts in other departments, other parts of the Class 100 appropriation.

Councilman Green

Because you've transferred essentially a large part of the burden to Commerce and other places --

Mr. Armbrister

That's the future. I thought you were talking about FY 2009.

Councilman Green

Well, I am, but there's testimony here that there's already a Memorandum of Understanding in place and that dollars have been transferred from DHS for this purpose and other agencies. Would you please provide the Chair with a copy of the Memorandum of Understanding and all detail about how monies have flowed with respect to funding the Inspector General in FY 2009 rather than taking our time to figure out today? This is something we're going to 102 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. have to come back to.

Mr. Armbrister

Okay.

Councilman Green

So what would be the impact to promoting good ethics in government accountability for the City workforce if you are budgeted at people or eight people so that we can 9 use these resources in the departments to 10 serve citizens? What would be the 11 impact? 12

Ms. Kurland

The best example that I can give is DHS. The grand jury -- the DA's Office grand jury indictment indicted two employees of the City, but we followed up on that investigation and went up two chains of command and found significant misconduct, and based on that misconduct, we recommended that eight additional people be fired from DHS.

Councilman Green

Okay.

Ms. Kurland

That is the kind of thing that --

Councilman Green

When did 103 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. that happen?

Ms. Kurland

Excuse me?

Councilman Green

When did that happen?

Ms. Kurland

I believe that was August and September of this past summer.

Councilman Green

How many people were in the Inspector General's Office at that time?

Ms. Kurland

I'm sorry, sir. I don't know the number off the top of my head. It was less than we had now. We had actually the entire office working on that case.

Councilman Green

If you could provide that information to the Chair, I'd appreciate it. I have some questions for the Chief Integrity Officer, but I can do that on my next five minutes, Charlie.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Jones.

Councilman Jones

Thank you, 104 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. Madam President. I go back to my original question about space allocation. The Ethics Board, where are they located?

Mr. Armbrister

They're in rented space. I think it's on Chestnut Street. I don't have the address, but we can get that for you, but they are in a leased space at this point.

Councilman Jones

What is the square footage that they --

Mr. Armbrister

We can get that information for you, Councilman.

Councilman Jones

Well, they're on Sansom Street I would --

Mr. Armbrister

Sansom Street. Okay.

Councilman Jones

Do you know who owns the building?

Mr. Armbrister

I do not personally, but we can get that information for you.

Councilman Jones

Okay. And I'd be interested in knowing how that 105 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. location was picked and whether or not it might be better to have them in consolidated space.

Mr. Armbrister

Well, as I mentioned to you in response to your earlier question, we've undertaken an entire review of that, all of our leased space, and the Public Property Commissioner is under direct orders from the Mayor to make sure that we can try to consolidate and get out of as much leased space as possible.

Councilman Jones

And let me just say the reason why I mention that specifically is that there's some other agencies that share that building and they're being told that they need to vacate because of the leased space and how much it costs the City of Philadelphia. So I was wondering if that is a uniformed decision or a decision that is arbitrary and capricious.

Mr. Armbrister

It was clearly not an arbitrary and capricious decision. 106 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. I mean, I actually saw the letters that the Public Property Commissioner sent out to every one of our land -- each one of our landlords that we have in leased space to try to get either a reduction in the rental rate or a reduction in our footprint to the extent that they would allow us to do that, and as I indicated, several of those landlords have indicated a willingness to work with the City to try to reduce those costs and/or footprints.

Councilman Jones

Well, it's my understanding that the City already pays for that space over in that location. I know --

Mr. Armbrister

You're talking specifically about the Ethics Board?

Councilman Jones

Yeah.

Mr. Armbrister

Yeah, probably.

Councilman Jones

Also, the other entity that was in there was PCDC. So I know exactly where the space is and 107 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. how much. And if they are being told that they need to vacate that space based on the fact that we're trying to reduce our rents, I'm curious as to why we wouldn't have a uniformed approach for all agencies within that building.

Mr. Armbrister

I'm not familiar with that particular situation, but I'm sure the Public Property Commissioner will be able to address it.

Councilman Jones

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam President. Could we please ask the -- while this is my personal opinion -- the guru for sustainability to come forward, Mark Alan Hughes.

Mr. Armbrister

Certainly. (Witness approached witness table.)

Mr. Hughes

Good morning. 108 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. Mark Hughes, Director of Sustainability.

Councilwoman Brown

Good morning. How are you?

Mr. Hughes

I'm fine, Councilwoman. How are you?

Councilwoman Brown

I'm good. I join the many on this Council who continue to be very, very excited about what this means for the City. If you had to ID a city that gets it and is well on their way to being what we aspire to be and, that is, the greenest city in America, who would you pick and why?

Mr. Hughes

In terms of other cities?

Councilwoman Brown

Yes.

Mr. Hughes

Well, if I may, let me give you a couple of answers to that question. I think that the city that is perhaps our closest peer in terms of a city that's like Philadelphia that we could aspire towards is City of Chicago. A city that is less obviously 109 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. comparable to the city we are now but that also provides a number of inspirational features to their sustainability policy would be probably the City of Vancouver in British Columbia, Canada.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. I'm still very much a student in this area, but I would have selected Chicago as well, for the limited knowledge that I have. A number of members of Council have introduced different type of sustainability bills and we have not gotten any pushback, but we have gotten a caution as to how we proceed because your office is in the progress -- work in progress of coming up with a strategic plan of sorts. Give us an update on where that is and what your action steps are with regards to rollout.

Mr. Hughes

Thank you very much. I welcome that opportunity. We are on track to release the 110 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. City's sustainability framework, as we're calling it, by the end of this month, April, and we've been working closely with several members of Council, including your office obviously, in developing that framework. The framework consists basically of six large goals and very 10 specific targets, as well as a list of 11 initiatives by which we'll seek to meet 12 those targets. And many of them relate 13 to issues that are near and dear to the 14 work of many Councilmembers; for example, 15 green buildings and so on.

Councilwoman Brown

Sure.

Mr. Hughes

But it's important to note that the framework won't be a set of tablets carved in stone and brought down from on high. It's very much a living document. And so really what will be released at the end of April is, for want of a better word, a snapshot of where we're at now, and there'll be lots of aspirations still in that document and 111 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. certainly lots of work to do after that release as we unroll and unwind years of work on this topic.

Councilwoman Brown

So there will be benchmarks, if you will, in terms of time posts?

Mr. Hughes

Yes, ma'am. Absolutely. In fact, the 15th target is that we meet the preceding 14. And so we plan on having both a series of annual progress reports that will be the occasion for the City to, just much like the end of this month will be, to kind of pause, take a breath and see where we are, but also more frequently than that kind of old-school annual report type technique, we will also have things that look much more like realtime feedback in terms of where we're at, so that kind of web-based and other kinds of ways that people can access information about -- for example, to take only one example, the City's progress towards meeting its target of reducing energy consumption, so 112 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. that we'll be able to report monthly where our energy consumption is at and how it tracks against our targets and so on.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. Is the Office of Sustainability connected to or tied up with or, where appropriate, serving as the glue for like the Energy Coordinating Office or the Green Building Council or the Sustainability Business Network so that there's some -- each one of those worlds is important. It makes no sense if they're all operating independently. So is there some glue that sort of ties all those parts together?

Mr. Hughes

Yes, ma'am. In fact, that's a terrific description of the kind of matrix management approach that we're trying to operate under both inside of government and with our partners outside of government. For, again, as you rightly point out, the City and the region are actually rich with 113 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. external partners in the private sector, the non-profit side. In fact, I would place that resource up against any of the cities, including Chicago and Vancouver, some of the pinnacles that we were talking about before, against any city in the United States in terms of the depth and breadth of the work and knowledge in those external partners, and for years really what they've looked to is who is sitting at the City's seat at that table. So that the Mayor's Office of Sustainability represents the opportunity to pull a chair up to that table. And because of the special nature of government, we do operate much like the glue. Everyone wants that public presence at that table. The framework operates in a similar kind of way. The framework really is an occasion not so much now in a table up to which we pull chairs, but a document where we try to combine different interests and work and so on. 114 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. The framework represents as well an occasion to inventory all of that work and put it on the same piece of paper, if you will, rather than just around the same table. So the framework is an opportunity to talk not just about what's going on in City government, but those strong partners on the outside as well. (Bell rung.)

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. The bell has rung, so on my next round, I'll have additional questions. Thank you.

Mr. Hughes

Sure. My pleasure.

Council President Verna

The Chair recognizes Councilman Green.

Councilman Green

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would just refer the Administration to Section 16 of the Operating Budget of Philadelphia, which is the General Provisions, which requires the kinds of changes that were just discussed, functions transferred from one 115 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. office to another, money transferred, et cetera, requires notification of Council or approval of Council, depending on the move. So I'm very concerned about the most recent testimony we've heard, and I would -- I just have one more question for the Inspector General and then the Chief Integrity Officer. (Witness approached witness table.)

Councilman Green

You said that you have police officers that are essentially detailed to you. Are you conducting criminal investigations?

Ms. Kurland

Yes, we are, in conjunction with federal and state law enforcement.

Councilman Green

Can you compare that to, say, an Inspector General in the federal government or the federal level for a particular department? Do they conduct criminal investigations or do they refer them? 116 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. I'm talking that there's a difference between conducting the investigation and referring something for a criminal investigation, which is what I understand other Inspector Generals do. Like I'm not aware of an Inspector General at the federal level that has law enforcement officers reporting to them.

Ms. Kurland

I think that I can compare the Inspector General's Office to that which exists in Chicago, in New York, in Miami and several other cities. Their Inspector General Offices, like ours, work hand in hand with law enforcement to conduct criminal investigations.

Councilman Green

But law enforcement are reporting to you. Is that true in any other cities?

Ms. Kurland

Yes. Yes. In fact, in Newark, the Inspector General's Office is made up completely of police officers who report directly to the Inspector General. 117 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc.

Councilman Green

Okay. It's very different from the way the position was described as we were looking to go out with a Charter amendment that would create an independent position. Do you think it is any kind of conflict to have the Mayor's Office conducting criminal investigations other than an independent agency?

Ms. Kurland

Of course I think that an independent agency, there would be no appearance that the Mayor is in some way directing or influencing an investigation. Because we don't have that Charter change, this proposed new budget is an intermediate step towards that.

Councilman Green

But maybe without that Charter change, it's not appropriate.

Ms. Kurland

I respectfully disagree.

Councilman Green

Okay. Thank you. 118 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. Chief Integrity Officer, please. (Witness approached witness table.)

Council President Verna

Good afternoon.

Ms. Markman

It is afternoon. Good afternoon. Joan Markman, Chief Integrity Officer.

Councilman Green

Good afternoon.

Ms. Markman

Good afternoon, Councilman.

Councilman Green

How would you describe your function?

Ms. Markman

I would describe my function consistent with the Executive Order that created it. It's a combination of -- it generally promotes integrity and transparency and honesty in the functions of City government, and to do that, I provide advice and resources to everyone within the executive department and actually on occasion when 119 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. called by people in City Council about particular contracts. I also review government procedures to try and make sure they're working right and to, where necessary, make some changes, and it generally has to do with the disposition mostly with City contracts, but also with the provision of City services.

Councilman Green

So how does your office provide services about advice that would be any different from the Ethics Board?

Ms. Markman

We work closely together. However, there is a difference. The difference is is that I am somebody who works for the Mayor and provides resources, particularly in contracting. Let me give you some examples. I get calls -- actually, a good one is, the Mayor has set up a Private Sector Task Force, and as you know, the Administration is interested in getting private sector partners to help us with 120 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. the functioning of City government and ways to make things more efficient. Although a number of those private sector -- the companies that provide this service are doing it free, they're doing it without charge to the City, it does raise not just the possibility of an actual conflict of interest but appearance of conflicts of interest. So I've worked with the Private Sector Task Force to develop policies and forums and assurances that there will be no 14 conflicts of interest in future contracting as a result of these companies coming in to help us in the present, and that is not something the Ethics Board gets involved with, because that's a function of the executive. (Bell rung.)

Councilman Green

Well, yeah, but the Ethics Board could provide an opinion on whether or not something is a conflict of interest and provide the same sort of assurance. Also, we have an 121 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. Inspector General that's got people now that has the resources to if there is an abuse of that process where people get contracts as a result of participating in the Private Sector Task Force, they can go after them. It just seems like an extraordinarily redundant function given the fact that we now are spending a million dollars on an Ethics Board and 1.39 million on an Inspector General to have somebody who is providing advice when -- when I need advice, I have to go to the Ethics Board. I'm not sure -- frankly, the position seems redundant to me.

Mr. Armbrister

It is not. 18 This is obviously a very, very high 19 priority for this Administration, and one of the other things that the Integrity Officer does is that she provides advice in advance and helps us set up procedures. The Inspector General often, not always but often, is kind of after the fact. It's kind of after something 122 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. has gone wrong, after we've had a problem, then you call in the Inspector General. What the Chief Integrity Officer does in many instances is that it allows us to make sure that we don't get to the point where we have a problem in the first place, so that provides guidance, monitoring, a lot of things within the executive branch that may not always be clearly apparent to the public, but certainly makes for the more highly -- a very high degree of integrity in the processes that we in fact undertake going forward as opposed to kind of trying to fix things that have happened in the past.

Councilman Green

I know, but you're describing the mission statement of the Ethics Board. They have a whole procedure for requesting -- writing in opinions requesting whether or not it's ethical, and if it's with respect to something that's related to contracting or something that wouldn't technically be 123 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. under their mandate, the City Solicitor's Office under the Charter is required to provide that information, and they have the resources and people who already are available to provide opinions. So, once again, there's no 8 function that you've described that is not already performed by other departments.

Mr. Armbrister

But the two examples that you cited, one with the Ethics Board and one with the Law Department, really is a narrow function of legal interpretation. A lot of the times the activity of the Chief Integrity Officer is not necessarily legal. It's sometimes good policy and practice, and she brings that level of review, sensitivity and direction and a focus point, quite frankly, which is one that this Administration thinks very highly of. And so she doesn't operate in purely giving legal opinions. She gives a lot of advice and helps us -- helps the 124 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. Administration maintain its integrity, which is a very, very high value for us.

Councilman Green

Once again, I didn't hear anything you described that isn't performed by other people, and it seems like a redundant position to me. Thank you.

Ms. Markman

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Thank you. I think Councilwoman Tasco was in the corridor. She indicated that she had a few questions to ask.

Councilman Green

Madam President, while we're waiting.

Council President Verna

Yes.

Councilman Green

Could we have Mark Hughes testify.

Council President Verna

Sure. Mr. Hughes, please take the witness table. (Witness approached witness table.)

Councilman Green

Could you 125 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. just tell us what the entire budget is for the Office of Sustainability within the Mayor's Office and then externally and where those resources come from?

Mr. Hughes

Yes. Within the Mayor's Office, it's my salary, which used to be higher and now it's lower. It's 139. And the total budget counting that as well as -- most of the budget actually resides within the Managing Director's Office. So the total budget is -- we'll talk more about this tomorrow, but the total budget would be about $1.2 million. Over half of that is from external sources, and then the reduced amount that's not my salary that comes from the General Fund is actually a ten percent reduction on the Municipal Energy Office budget that we absorbed. So that's really where the main source of repurposed money from earlier budgets.

Councilman Green

So grant funding, it's your testimony, is 600,000? It was 400,000 last year. 126 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc.

Mr. Hughes

Yeah. It's actually more. Yes.

Councilman Green

Okay. If you could provide the detail of what grants are and other stuff, that would be great. And then the rest of the roughly 600,000 is from the General Fund?

Mr. Hughes

That's right.

Councilman Green

Thank you.

Council President Verna

Mr. Hughes, let's not forget about stimulus. You're going to give us a briefing, I'm told.

Mr. Hughes

Yes, ma'am. I'm happy to do that. We're trying to schedule, I think, as soon as possible.

Council President Verna

Great. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Tasco.

Councilwoman Tasco

Yes. Thank you. I have one quick question. Do you plan to fund the Mayor's Commission on Construction Industry 127 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. Diversity?

Mr. Armbrister

As you know, Councilwoman Tasco, that Commission, it's concluded its work and has delivered a report to both the Council President and to the Mayor, and there has been a suggestion, which the Administration has taken under advisement, that we would continue with some group, advisory group, if you will, and we have not made a decision, a final decision, on that, but it's certainly something that we're taking under advisement. It was a recommendation made by the Commission.

Councilwoman Tasco

Then how does the Administration plan to support their goals, their suggested goals, of increased diversity?

Mr. Armbrister

Well, the plan was when that Commission was first -- was constituted was that they would basically hand over -- make a series of recommendations to an existing entity within the government, that being the 128 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. Office of Equal Opportunity, OEO. So it had always been contemplated that the activities or recommendations that the Diversity Commission would make would be operationalized by the activities of Office of Economic Opportunity. As part of the recommendations that the Commission made, they suggested that they would have a continued advisory role, and we are taking that under advisement. We just got that recommendation a couple weeks ago.

Councilwoman Tasco

Will the staff of the Office of Equal Opportunity be sufficient to support the -- to fulfill the goals that were set forth?

Mr. Armbrister

That's one of the reasons why we haven't made a decision yet. We're taking a look at that in the context of its overall ability.

Councilwoman Tasco

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

129 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. You're welcome. The Chair again recognizes Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you, Madam Chair. If it's my turn, I do have additional questions.

Council President Verna

It's your turn.

Councilwoman Brown

Thank you. For Office of Sustainability, the briefing on the stimulus will be for Councilmembers as a group, correct?

Council President Verna

Yes.

Councilwoman Brown

The briefing on -- okay. So I can hold those questions until then. Councilman Jones introduced a measure around green enterprise zones. Let me ask a different question. You mention that the framework that you're going to share with us will cover a number of different areas. Is green jobs one of them? 130 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc.

Mr. Hughes

Yes, ma'am.

Councilwoman Brown

Enterprise zones as such, green enterprise zones?

Mr. Hughes

Zones as such only as a proposal, as a proposal that we've heard from Council.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. Councilman Jim Kenney introduced a measure that is now law around green roofs. Is there any reporting? Is there any way we can get a handle on how effectively that new measure is being utilized in the City, its awareness of it, so that those who are doing new construction take advantage of that new measure?

Mr. Hughes

Right. We have had discussion of that in the framework, and because it is about the take-up rate in that and trying to look for ways that we can identify that will improve the marketing and take-up rate of the -- because it's not well known, not nearly as well known as it should be. 131 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc.

Councilwoman Brown

That's what I've discovered.

Mr. Hughes

In fact, I often in my talks, kind of a set-up when I'm talking to outside groups, is praise New York City's green roof tax credits and get everybody mumbling about wouldn't it be great if Philadelphia had such a thing, and then I'm able to point out to them that in fact we had it a year before New York did and theirs is largely modeled on Councilman Kenney's. So there needs to be some better marketing of that. The Revenue Department needs to change some of the forms actually that allows the credits be more easily implemented and so on.

Councilwoman Brown

So you make plain what another department could or should do. Is there some system in place which offers those recommendations and then does the follow-up or follow-through to make sure that that recommendation happens so that that 132 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. particular new opportunity can be utilized?

Mr. Hughes

Exactly. That's what the Sustainability Working Group that several Councilmembers are -- Council staffers are active members that we meet monthly around across departments. There's about 75 people who meet and two dozen City departments, as well as some Council staff to kind of work through exactly those kind of implementation issues.

Councilwoman Brown

The green jobs --

Council President Verna

One moment, please. I believe the Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney for a point of information.

Councilman Kenney

Thank you, Madam President. Relative to the point of information, just today I, just when I left the Chamber, had a meeting with a 133 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. person from a local bakery who was looking at the opportunity to put a green roof on their building and was not aware of the green roof tax credit. They are aware of it now, and I put them in the right direction. But the other issue I think is that what your Sustainability Office has to do is articulate to the private sector, to the commercial sector that this is not just good things for the environment, that this is going to save them money. As it relates to storm water runoff rates, management rates, those kind of things are money. Because we had an issue in here a couple years ago relative to a green roof requirement on a big-box store over 50,000 square feet and Councilmembers expressed some concern about the cost of that and the development community expressed concerns about the cost of it, but right now based on the state requirements for storm water management and the Water Department's new 134 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. requirement on rates, anybody who built a big-box store that had a green roof on it to begin with would be saving an awful lot of money in the future. So I think it's twofold. It's getting the information out to the existing companies, but also articulating to them that it's not just tree hugging, that it's good business and creates jobs and saves them money. Thank you.

Councilwoman Brown

Sure.

Council President Verna

Councilwoman Brown.

Councilwoman Brown

With the green jobs component that we'll look forward to reading, is there a tie-in or link-in with Philadelphia Workforce Development Corporation?

Mr. Hughes

Yes. Absolutely. So that -- and there's actually a lot to say about both the green economy and the green jobs piece of this, especially on the workforce side, but there are a 135 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. couple things happening. One, using both public dollars through existing youth and adult titles in the workforce system itself, there is several examples of emerging curriculums. Some of the most familiar of our service providers on the workforce side; for example, JEVS, Impact and others, understand that this emerging market and the demand that both the federal recovery dollars but also just the big changes in the world are creating for -- these are the new jobs for which they need to be presenting, delivering training services. So using existing titles, also using new additions to existing titles coming from the federal recovery dollars, which are themselves targeted to some of these opportunities, there's a lot of activity emerging. Also, on the private side, the City was, as you know, Councilwoman, was the recipient of recently a $1.1 million grant from the Knight Foundation, a million dollars of which is focused on 136 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. opening up a new regional green jobs training center in Kensington with ECA, the Energy Coordinating Agency, that will ratchet up and eventually be in a position to train during the course of two years 800 new positions on a variety of things, from energy auditors to insulation installers and so on.

Councilwoman Brown

Okay. So my final comment would be, as you roll out the strategy, it's imperative that we honor what Van Jones talks about a lot, and, that is, making sure that young people are on the fringe and the underemployed and the homeless, et cetera, have some kind of pipeline to these opportunities, which don't require sophisticated skills and college degrees. And so I would hope that somewhere in there there is -- you tell us how we're going to capture that segment of our population. (Bell rung.)

Mr. Hughes

Absolutely. In 137 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. fact, I think we were deeply flattered in Philadelphia that Van has started using a line that was first used by the Mayor, that the green economy represents opportunities for everyone, from the GED to the Ph.D., and it's our primary interest. While we've got plenty of spaces at the table through the Benjamin Franklin Technology Partners and the stuff that's going on at the Navy Yard and the universities and so on at one end of that distribution, it's really the other end that is our primary focus. It's those easily accessible jobs that can be -- and we're looking at school-based programs. We're looking at Community College-based programs for returners. We're looking at special -- much of the workforce system is oriented around dislocated and disconnected workers, people who have either never had a job or who do not now have a job and have dropped out of school. So there's lots of 138 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. provisions -- I'm sorry to be speaking so fast, but I know the bell has rung.

Councilwoman Brown

That's for me. That's not for you.

Mr. Hughes

Oh, good. There are lots of provisions inside existing funding flows that if we seek to, we can connect with exactly the population that you're talking about. COUNCILWOMAN Brown: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

Councilwoman, there's a point of information. Councilman Jones.

Councilman Jones

Thank you. On the line of what my colleague talked about, would you agree that the more demand that we create for green, the more opportunity there is for businesspeople to fulfill that demand?

Mr. Hughes

Yes, sir, with one slight proviso, which is that it matters 139 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. what level of government creates that demand. So that local levels of government, it's much more difficult for us to always play the demand creation game, because sometimes that could have -- that could backfire on us. Whereas, higher levels of government create level playing fields that can more successfully create some of that demand. But as a general matter, absolutely. Creating demand creates opportunity, yes, sir.

Councilman Jones

You know, one good thing about being an elected official, you know when you hear the spin, that it's either -- no matter what level creates the demand, the private sector responds to the marketplace by demand. So if there is a greater demand for green roofs, then the probability of the Horticultural Societies of the world will take advantage of that. The greater demand for solar will create manufacturers who actually start to 140 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. manufacture and assemble solar panels. So my point in that is that if we as a municipality at this level start to say like in the Silicon Valley that we are going to be the leader of green, then people making a business decision as to where they will locate a distribution hub or a factory may pick Philadelphia based on its commitment to that green. Secondly, there is stimulus money that is coming down for -- and it's hit the state now -- for wind, and that was just announced yesterday in yesterday's paper. To the degree that we can capitalize and brand ourselves and stop using the "big brother" syndrome of New York -- I understand that a lot of things -- we want to be New York. We want to be New York, but we can be the best Philadelphia by being trail blazers as opposed to imitators, and I would encourage us not to be afraid to do that. I know that we took their book and we looked at it and we said, Oh, we want to 141 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. be like that, but if by definition we -- if we always follow the leader, we will always be behind the curve. And I think that we have a unique opportunity here to get ahead of the curve on some of these issues, to be trail blazers on some of these issues. You also mentioned that you're creating the pipeline on jobs. I would encourage we did the tour of the Randolph Skills Center up on Henry Avenue. We had a couple of unions. Dr. Ackerman also went up there. But that is last century's infrastructure that can be turned into this century's opportunity. But we got to get you up there. We got to get you to look at and to kind of help them design curriculums that are forward-thinking as opposed to just what we've experienced in the last century.

Mr. Hughes

I'd love to go up. Thank you. I'd be very pleased to tour the center.

Councilman Jones

On green 142 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. zones, there are two ways to roam. There are a couple of ways if we think about it, and I want you to keep an open mind, because I know there's some other Councilpeople that when they recommend something, it's like the oceans part, and it's a little harder for freshmen's ideas to get a real good look, and I understand that, but we fight harder to do so. I want to look at places where we can concentrate activities so that people can actually see the physical result of our activities. So as we look at a broad-brush view, which I appreciate and understand your concept of, but there's some depressed areas that if we declared green zone, that could probably be stimulated a lot quicker by us concentrating those efforts in those areas. And I'm talking about Hunting Park, I'm talking about Parkside, I'm talking about American Street. And these are areas that if we kind of concentrated there, that we could 143 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. see a lot of activity attracted based on the fact of marketplace opportunity. And I'll just leave it at that.

Mr. Hughes

Thank you. I appreciate those comments. Thank you.

Councilman Jones

Thank you, Madam President.

Council President Verna

You're welcome. Councilwoman Brown, your light is on. Are you finished?

Councilwoman Brown

Next round. The bell rang.

Council President Verna

Oh, okay.

Councilwoman Miller

Point of information.

Council President Verna

Yes. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.

Councilwoman Miller

Hi. Good afternoon. I just have a couple of questions regarding green jobs. That just seems to be a very popular phrase. Everywhere you read, everything you pick 144 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. up is green, green, green. So is there any place that has a listing or would you have a listing when you're talking about -- when you talk about creating a pipeline for green jobs? I had a constituent stop me over the weekend and he wanted to know what is a green job and what should he be doing right now to get prepared for what he thinks he can probably qualify for to get a green job and how soon. I mean, because that's what the bottom line is. People want to work, and when they hear green, the first thing I think of is landscaping, but I'm sure it must be more than that. I mean, who is going to install a green roof? During NTI when we went out and we looked at houses that needed to be demolished or eminently dangerous, when we saw grass growing and weeds growing out of like downspouts and those kind of things, we actually were very -- it was very important for us to contact the 145 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. owner to say, Hey, you're getting ready to destroy your property. But now we're talking about putting a green roof on. I do know there's a difference. Last year I did go over to the Flower Show, so I could see the difference between a green roof and weeds growing out. So I do know that. But, I mean, this is all new. The terminology is new. It's kind of fancy and it's not fancy, but the bottom line is, people want to work. What should they be doing?

Mr. Hughes

Yes, ma'am. That's a great question. As your question suggests, it's a number of things. There are some things that are literally green, like landscaping jobs, and there are a variety of activities that we could talk about there. There are another set of issues that are kind of a little bit more environmental, like composting and recycling and construction demolition and so on. But the one that I 146 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. would focus on these days, for a variety of reasons that we could talk at length about later, is related to weatherization. And that's -- let me just give two reasons why I think that. One is because there is so much attention right now in the federal recovery bill 9 around funding for that. To refer back to Councilman Jones' discussion of demand, that is where the demand is bankable, $5 billion on weatherization. Secondly, the second reason why for Philadelphians in particular is that we have inherited a bunch of buildings that are great candidates for weatherization, the 440,000 row houses that we have in this city, and virtually all of them need more attic insulation and more caulk around doors and windows, and so on and so on and so on. So that it's really, I think, work related to weatherization around buildings, especially on the residential side, is the best possible investment. That's the 147 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. preparation that we're talking about. And then we can be much more specific about what a certain individual might need. For example, to really move up the ladder that weatherization can represent, you need some basic math skills, because the second job after you've learned how to blow the attic insulation up, which you can do in a matter of just a few weeks and probably step in pretty quickly into a $12 to $14 an hour job, the next step on that ladder is to be the person who walks into that house and figures out how much attic insulation that house needs. And so there are a set of skills, still very attainable, but that can lead you more into like a $20 to $25 an hour job. It's one of the great advantages of this weatherization stuff, is that it builds real ladders for people.

Councilwoman Miller

Okay. So when do you think these jobs will actually start to happen? I mean, we keep -- 148 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc.

Mr. Hughes

Well, on the weatherization side, again, this is one of the advantages of having the -- I don't know what metaphor I want to use -- the sword swinging over our head of the federal recovery. We need to begin this work by September at the latest, because we will have lots of oversight and some very stringent requirements around having all of that money spent within months. 12

Councilwoman Miller

And I 13 think that I hear you say that the ECA 14 will actually be a part of this? 15

Mr. Hughes

Yes, ma'am. 16

Councilwoman Miller

So 17 someone could actually -- we could 18 actually call ECA and find out what their recruiting mechanism is going to be?

Mr. Hughes

ECA exists. That will probably be the most direct call. There are also -- I bet that there are few familiar service providers in the workforce system that people could call today, like JEVS, like Impact, like MCC, 149 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. like the settlements, who have not already begun to design a weatherization curriculum for their clients.

Councilwoman Miller

That's really good. That's good information. Thank you.

Mr. Hughes

My pleasure.

Council President Verna

I'm going to recognize Councilwoman Blackwell because she hasn't had her turn yet. I think immediately after her line of questioning, we'll recess and come back. And, Mr. Armbrister, before I forget to mention, Council would like to have the copies of testimony from the various departments 48-hour business days before the public hearing. Also, I think we've asked several questions regarding the Five-Year Plan. As I speak, we have not received any responses. Can we have responses within hours, please. 23 The Chair recognizes 24 Councilwoman Blackwell.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Thank 150 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. you, Madam President. I'm referring to from our Operating Budget with regard to professional services. If we look there, we see that some $470,000 has been allocated, but it says "to be determined." Does that mean the other providers will not be considered people who have done work for the City for years? I see Whitten and Diamond. We all know them. In fact, Lucien worked with them for a while. Wojack and many others. And also as that relates to Bill 15 No. 090214, that purchase of services says $670,000. So we have a 200,000 shortfall in the middle. Can you reconcile that for us?

Mr. Armbrister

Councilwoman, I'm going to take your first question first. I'm not sure I understand your second one yet, but I'll go back to it. We talked a little bit about this earlier, but the fact that we've indicated "to be determined" is more of a 151 4/6/09 - WHOLE - BILL 090212, etc. reflection of the fact that all of those lobbying contracts are coming to the end and we'll probably have to rebid those, but it does in no way indicate that those lobbyists who have served us well and long won't be reconsidered for continuing activity. And I think Councilwoman Tasco asked me in the absence of having those RFPs completed, will we continue with those services, and the answer is yes, we would, until the RFP is done. Now, with respect to your second question, I'm not sure I understood.

Councilwoman Blackwell

Yes. In the pink copy, the bill, the figure listed is 686,669, but here in our supportive detail in our budget book, the figure is 469,565. So there's a $200,000 difference.