It starts in June. In the beginning of June, they will the manufacture, fabricate, and install an escalator. We have 33 escalator replacement programs on the drawing board for the next four years -- actually five years counting this year. Today we are just looking at the ones we have underway. The escalators at Pattison, North Philadelphia, Erie, Juniper, Orthodox, and Second Street are in all some stage of replacement, so when people go out and see them all boarded up or see them not working, much of that is attributable to the investment being made. They've been turned over to contractors.
Thank you. Can you tell us what the process is when a community asks for SEPTA shelters? In the Eastwick area, for instance, you know, it's really wide open, there is no shelter. Can you tell us what the process is for the shelters.
Yes. A request is written to the City Transportation Department. When someone writes to us with a request like that, we forward it over to the City Transportation Office. 2317 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05
How successful are we when you send the request over to the Mayor's Transportation Office?
First we need a written signoff. You know, there's some legal process that they go through. They may even come to the Council, perhaps the Chair of the Transportation Committee to get that.
Mr. Leary, the Pennsylvania University of Pennsylvania students, do they get a discount?
The Compass program provides a 5 percent discount. When you someone 2318 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 buys in volume like that, we sell it to them at that price. Let me check with my staff. Then the University of Pennsylvania discounts it at another percent. 6
How come we don't 7 get the same deal for the City school system? I 8 mean, don't those individuals at the University 9 get a better deal? 10
I don't think it's a better 11 deal than the City gets. They get -- 12
We've got poor kids, poor Philadelphia kids and rich middle-class kids getting charged at different levels, and some kids are getting discounts, and others are -- you're telling me that we have all of these different situations. Why can't we give a discount to the poor Philadelphia kids.
If the City provides them at the same rate that we provide to everybody else, then --
If the City wanted to buy the -- 2319 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05
I'm talking about the school kids, I'm talking about school kids. How come the University of Pennsylvania students middle-class students, rich students get a discount and our kid who are poor students cannot get a discount? We buy the tokens at the same level that everybody buys tokens. The school system buys the tokens at $1.15. That is not a discount.
If you'll refer to that chart, you'll see the numbers. But the subsidy for providing Philadelphia school students transportation is -- I think it's $1.69, which is a much larger discount than anybody else receives in terms of what the total cost of student transportation is.
The school system buys tokens at $1.15 per package? 2320 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05
But that's the same discount that any get that anyone can get. They're not getting a discount as the bulk buyer, as an institution. I get $1.15 token if I go over there and buy a monthly or weekly package. That doesn't do anything for the school system or for the poor kids. Now, the University of Pennsylvania gets a discount and it's totally ridiculous that they can buy tokens at a lower rate than the school system kids.
Mr. Leary, I think the gentleman to your left sitting at the edge of his chair is dying to answer. Kindly identify yourself for the record.
I'm Bernard Cohen, General Assistant Manager for SEPTA. The University buys monthly -- actually they buy semester passes from us. They have to pay for four months' worth of TransPasses, which cost $64 a month. So in return for the large volume of passes that they buy from us, we provide a 5 percent discount, just as we do to any 2321 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 institution that's a purchaser of passes, that buy in bulk. We could do that if the City wanted to purchase hundreds or thousands of passes from us.
The discount for the token program that SEPTA provides the schools is much deeper than the University of Pennsylvania. We pick up over 50 percent of the cost of every single trip that a school child takes.
How do you pick up the cost of 50 percent of the school children if you sell the tokens to the school at the going rate that anyone can buy? Because the actual price of a trip for anybody who rides a bus is $3.06. You're not doing that just for the school system, you are doing that for everybody who boys $1.15 token package.
If you add up the combination of picking up over 50 percent of every school trip route that Mr. Leary mentioned before, the SEPTA contribution for is substantial.
I don't think so. I don't think it's at all substantial. 2322 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 You asked me to yield to you for a second?
This program that you have in place at the University of Pennsylvania is one that we can conceivably look at by the stakeholders we're going to pull to the table to see if there's an opportunity to create a pass system for Philadelphia school students as well.
Yes that is a legitimate thing for us to look at when we get together and try to solve this problem.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
Mr. Leary, in your judgment, is there any difference between the transportation system that operates for profit and one that is a government transportation system?
Yes, I guess there is a difference. The one that operates for profit has to return income to stockholders and the owners of 2323 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 the system. Whereas a public organization like SEPTA takes every dollar it gets and puts it back into delivering service to its customers.
Is there any greater responsibility of a public transportation system to provide services that are needed than there is for a private transportation company?
Yes. I'd like to think that public transportation organization has a bigger, more expansive mission than a private, you know, company. I think it's important that a public transportation organization like ours be an essential part of the community and help facilitate other things happening in the community like community economic development and tourism and convention business, things like that that would not necessarily be a part of a private bus company that was making a profit.
You know, Miss Egan, whom we've known to be an outstanding highway commissioner, was very kind. She called several days before the hearing at the end of last week to ask if we had any questions. It was not only a very nice gesture, but every time I begin dialing 2324 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 the number, I couldn't do it because I would have taken off her head and I didn't think that that was appropriate to do, because some Councilmembers who are coming to this question for the first time may be much more patient and relaxed about the question of a responsibility of a public transportation company to a school system. But those of us that have been arguing it for years don't understand why SEPTA does not apply the very simple language that Miss Egan talked about before in the discussion she had with Councilwoman Blackwell about what's needed at 52nd Street. Miss Egan said yes, SEPTA's going to play the role of a corporate community leader. We're going to spearhead the drive, she said. I haven't heard anything like that in all of these years. We've been talking about the cost of children to get to school, which results in so many of them not getting to school. You just seem to dispose of it as not being your problem. Miss Egan also gave a second very good -- no, you're the one who gave the second piece of good advice. I think you're the one who said 2325 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 that the City Hall Station should be a signature for these public transportation services, it should be outstanding. Well, shouldn't Philadelphia be a signal city that provides free information transportation for students to get to school? I'm not satisfied with the talk here today about working out some kind of financial arrangement. I think it's a disgrace that a public transportation system does not find a way to provide free transportation so that kids can go to school and that they not have an excuse not to go and. It's a genuine excuse for a low-income family that has even one kid -- or, God forbid, two or three kids -- that have to use the public transportation to go to school. We're just writing them off. The school system now requests that the main responsibility of SEPTA be to provide transportation for those most in need, and isn't that why we have a public rather than a private transportation system? To provide those services that a private company cannot be expected to provide. You couldn't ask or tell a private 2326 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 company to provide a service like this because they have no responsibility other than to the shareholders, but don't you have a responsibility to the government to all of the people? You talk, Mr. Leary, and I have a lot of respect for your professional expertise, and I think you're trying very hard under difficult circumstances to provide an excellent service. But when I ask you what are the public aspects that you provide, you talk about tourism, you talk about the Convention Center, you talk economic development, but you don't say a word about the people in this city who most need public transportation. And I just think the priorities of SEPTA have to be revised, as I did unsuccessfully at the Riverview apartment house where older folks were stranded with no thought of any responsibility to them. You stranded the older folks in that apartment house at 23rd and Race in Councilwoman Clarke's district. You know what I'm talking about? You were present at one set of meetings.
Now, of our Harrisburg legislators, I know we only have 2 out of 11.
All right, only 4 out of 15 of the legislature who will give pro-Philadelphia votes, but you're in a better position to judge that than I am. But doesn't SEPTA have a role in saying, We're going to make Philadelphia a city where everybody can do what they have to do, and particularly for kids? We're talking about this being the Year of the Children and about how important it is to have an educated workforce in Philadelphia. How do kid get educated if they don't go to school? I urge you, following all of this discussion, to assert yourself and be the leaders in this campaign and say, We're responsible for transportation. Call upon the School District, you know, or --
Councilman, if I may. I could make that presentation as a policy presentation to the board. I am sure that I would get Dick Voigt's support. I might even 2328 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 get two of the State legislators to support me, but that's only votes out of 15. And that would 4 not get us where we want to go because the suburban legislators who say now that they are willing to talk about this will still come back and say, Okay, if we put that in the budget, where are we going to get the money from to replace those other items in the budget? And until that question is answered, Councilman, I don't know that we can just reorder the priorities. I am sure that none of us in this room who are here representing the City or SEPTA want children to not be able to go to school because they can't afford the fare. But the basic question still comes to, who is going to pay for this? And if SEPTA puts it in its budget, it's got to get past the suburban representatives, and there are 11 of them, so we couldn't get a vote passed even if we get all of the State people to side with us. So we're talking about the real practical matter of that. And so if we get everybody to the table, perhaps with all of the heads together and all of the wills together, we 2329 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 can figure out a way to do it so that all of us benefit. Because once we put give the Philadelphia children free rides, what about the children who ride the SEPTA system from the suburbs, are we then going to give them free transportation? So it's not really just a simple issue as you have made to it appear, Councilman Cohen. It is much larger than that. And I say on behalf of the City of Philadelphia whom I represent on this board, we are willing to will work with all of the stakeholders in the City trying to work this out.
Councilman, can I just interject for a minute? Our PAL City Council President just informed me, Miss Robinson, that she went to Conwell Magnet School and she said that she got free tokens for all fours years. So are this some schools that get free tokens and others that do not?
Yes. I think we sell some and provide some free tokens in some situations.
How do we 2330 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 determine who gets the free tokens?
Madam Chair, I've just been informed that 10,000 out of 30,000 kid go free.
In my years 23 almost in the City Council, we do respect -- I 24 don't mean any discourtesy to you at all. It's a 25 terrible thing that exists in Philadelphia that 2331 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 some kids can't get to school 'cause they don't have the money, and we're determined to provide it. But you can begin developing campaigns with private business sources, you can hold all kind of meetings with State legislators to try to win their support and you bring in the other 9 members of the SEPTA Board into the City and 10 create demonstrations and show the kids that they 11 don't all get to school because they don't have funding. You build a campaign when you want to do something. SEPTA as a body has the number-one responsibility for carrying out that campaign, and in that way, you justify the existence of your being a public transportation company. 'Cause to me, the main difference between private and public is that a public body looks to enrich its citizens, it looks to make life better for them, while the private company looks only to enrich its shareholders. And that's proper under business corporation law. But with due respect, I say SEPTA can bring this about if you exert the kind of 2332 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 leadership that Miss Egan talked about doing in the 52nd and Market thing, and they'll all cooperate with you. But I think it's a project for the year 2000. I think it should be a goal before this calendar year end, and Philadelphia will be a real world-class city in that it makes things better not only for businessmen but for its residents and particularly for the kids who live in the City. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Leary, I had this conversation at this hearing last year, and I was hoping something would occur or develop where -- I'll give you an example. I used the same example a year ago. In the morning at a particular intersection, I see five or six Philadelphia School District buses owned by the School District and also contract services. I would think that there would be some Councilpeople getting together and coming up with a plan to eliminate these 2333 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 dozens if not hundreds maybe thousands of buses that the School District operates. You're in the business of transporting people, and it amazes me that you're not charged with the responsibility of moving -- I know that there are legal situations, but that's what we're here for, to deal with these problems, these obstacles that are in our way. But I would think that this city and the taxpayers and the other Councilmembers that want to see transportation cost reduced, if not eliminated, this would be a step in the right direction. At one intersection, I see sometimes five, six school buses with three kids on one, five on the other. Honestly, it looked like a parking lot. So -- and again, one of the buses must cost $100,000 with driver benefits, and for just two or three children to be on one is an extravagance that has to come to an end. Any thoughts on that? I know --
Councilman, I happen to share your view of that particular issue. We walk a very, very fine line in this industry with respect to providing school transportation, and we 2334 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 talked about this last year. If you recall in my comments I talked about a little about the 400 Series buses. We have to be very careful to provide 400 Series buses, and no one can on object. I would say to you, we are right on the margin in providing this service that is essentially open to the public but begins at the high school. If you drive down the street and you see at 2:30 in the afternoon 8 buses, they are 400 Series and are right on the margin in terms of what legally we can provide. What happens is, because we provide those, the dark blue on the chart represents total SEPTA cost of student transportation. When we engage in these discussions over the next few months, I think maybe we will incorporate more student input on the existing system. The School District now pays about $15 per student in travel. Maybe we can shave cost off of that so that the cost can be redistributed to the cost of transfers and in some way start to move in the direction of making it a little better situation for everybody. 2335 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05
I appreciate that. The School District's bus fleet is starting to mirror --
Plus the contract buses that I see all over the place. But, again, the eight kids one bus, it just didn't make sense, it's a waste of money.
I would only add to that that we have to be careful. There's a very, very large private-sector industry of private buss companies and they have to be very careful to enforce the regulations that prevent us from doing school --
I would hope that it would be one of the things that we discuss. And if legislation changes are needed, fine, because I think the well's running dry and people are strapped to the point where they need us to run the government efficiently and in the best way possible. And I think if there's a potential savings there, I think we have the absolute responsibility to take advantage of it. 2336 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 Thank you.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Mr. Leary, six years ago, we got around $8 million for the air quality, I don't believe that money has ever been used to do that, to buy new buses.
Every year we get money under that program to invest in the transit system in ways that will help improve the air quality of this region, and there may be $8 million left in that account.
We have the money to replace the diesel buses. We have out on the street a bid right now. 2337 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05
This money I'm talking about, we got it six years ago to replace the diesel buses.
There's a move afoot to replace the diesel buses with compressed natural gas buses. That project has moved forward to the point to be implemented.
Could you give us a report how the funds are being sent spent?
I wrote you a letter in July and still don't have an answer to that one letter that I wrote to you in July. So, hopefully, we can get the response sooner than that.
I'm embarrassed if you wrote me in July and I haven't responded yet, but 2338 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 I'll check on that.
I'll give you a copy of the letter later on so you can see it.
But we are moving forward with that particular project and out on the street today is a bid package for a hybrid bus. It's a very expensive procurement.
One final question on school tokens. Five percent would only be $750,000. Think about it. It's a small step towards the discount that we're asking for. Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Madam President. I've been here about two months so far and have seen a lot of ironic things. The most ironic, though, is for the oldest member to say that he's far less patient than the youngest. I think it has nothing to do with a lack of tenure. I think SEPTA is willing to work with me on that and it will take several months to accomplish that. I still probably would not have lost my 2339 2/28/00 - OPERATING BUDGET CONT'D - BILL 05 patience, yet a forthcoming solution probably may require moving from tokens to passes and may require, as I said before, lobbying the State and the State legislators for that purpose and. I think thank the members from SEPTA for their patience today. I hope this is something we can all work on together to resolve.
Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)
This committee will stand in recess until Tuesday, February 29, 2000 at 9:00 a.m. Thank you all very much. (Adjourned at 2:43 p.m.) - - - 2340 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Monday, February 28, 2000, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: COUNCIL COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE BILL NO. 05 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter