Can we all have that information? I didn't see any in South Philadelphia.
So you will share all of that information with us tomorrow?
No problem, Madam President. Any request that I make for information should almost always be considered a general request. All of those requests for information should go to the Chair. They will be distributed. If you could either overlay or by some other legend designation put on that same map the teen centers and the youth access centers. You can do blocks, squares, triangles, whatever geometric symbol makes 1182 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget you happy, but I would like to be able to see just kind of what's where, especially as we embark on this new realm of facilities. Now, let me ask this question: On we talk about after-school programs and programs in general in our recreation centers. How many children are there in the city under the age of 18?
I think we generally know that there are what, 212, 210, 205, somewhere in the 200 plus thousand neighborhood of school age children in public school. I think we also know that there are probably upwards of at least another 150,000 children split somewhere between parochial and possibly private schools. So why don't we call it maybe an even 400,000. Is that fair?
If we are serving 50,000 of them, what are the other 350,000 doing?
I can't answer for 1183 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget everybody else, but I'm sure that children participate in things at their individual schools or maybe the local CYO or the Y or whatever the case may be.
But generally we don't know what children who are not participating in our programs are doing?
Children have different needs or different things that they want to participate in, so I can't answer for every child across the City of Philadelphia.
But some kids like bowling. Some kids like soccer and there are different opportunities for children. I know that is part of some of the things that the City Council and the leadership of the city has been doing to increase after school hours or nonschool-hour activities for children, not just through the rec centers but using the schools with the Beacon programs and things of that nature, nonprofits, church organizations, teaching golf or whatever that particular activity may be.
Still on 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget the testimony -- and I appreciate your having in your testimony the information we were looking for during the Fairmount Park discussion. Again, if you have gone over this, please don't go over it again. The six recreation facilities that are proposed to shift from Fairmount Park to the Recreation Department, to your knowledge has there been any discussion with the advisory groups or constituent groups or friends groups of these particular centers about this transition and what efforts will Recreation make to talk to the people who care about these facilities?
Thank you. That part of my testimony had been answered or requested, but I do plan -- we haven't now, but I do plan once we are ready and we have all of the manning in place where I can go back and talk in detail with the community leadership, ward leaders, advisory groups within those particular rec centers or pool areas, yeah, we plan to do it face to face upfront, sir.
And that will take place before the transfer actually is effected?
On of the 1185 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget testimony you make reference to the UPAAR and the DCNR grants for various renovations, repairs, replacements. Can you tell me where those grant dollars are going to be spent or what they are going to be spent on?
The UPAAR grant was designed to completely finish the rehabilitation work at Kingsessing Recreation Center. One of the things that we have targeted in the department is to improve safety around our pools. We wanted to use some of the money for the deep end filling of a pool at Kingsessing Recreation Center as well as finish all the other sites. Preexisting DCNR funding has been used for area parks, neighborhood parks. Mainly the relationship is with the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society and also we have put in more funding this year to address our playground safety initiative to rehab capital programs and projects, one being at 29th and Chalmers.
Thought you would just throw that in there to see if I was paying attention, right? You will give us a break-out -- because 1186 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget you mention a number of these centers in the testimony, you will give us a further breakdown of how the DCNR dollars are spent by way of those facilities?
Continuing in that area or the next area rather, you talk about utilizing a SWAT team approach to use staff and funding in a more efficient manner to revitalize our physical plants, revitalize inhouse facility upgrades. Tell me how that approach fits in with a couple of situations that we have dealt with recently whether it is Nichols or Granaham?
One of the things that we thought that would improve is not to address things in piecemeal fashion but to go on a full-scale approach or a comprehensive approach to address all the problems at area recreation centers. And these projects and programs were selected based on -- it started with the teen centers, but we saw that it was definitely effective to go out and address all of our recreation centers in that fashion and therefore we have addressed many of the centers and 1187 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget identified them in a comprehensive approach by the multiunits of the department and the maintenance division, carpenters, plumbers, painters to fix all the problems that have come up over a work order system. So therefore we have addressed that in that fashion and that's why we take a comprehensive approach rather than a piecemeal approach to addressing our maintenance problems.
What kind of cycle is the department on in terms of inspection of facilities and how you stay on top of the normal wear and tear of what happens at our rec centers?
As part of the recreation facility caretakers' manual, their job is to routinely, daily, provide inspection of fixtures that need to be addressed or problems that exist in and outside the recreation facility. So that part of the inspection program is on a daily basis.
Last year we had discussion about -- I left my charter downstairs, but we had a fair amount of discussion last year about the charter provision requiring a coordinated recreation plan for the City. Can you tell me where we are with that? 1188 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget
There is nothing formally that has been addressed or changed with that. That was something that Mr. Goldsmith and I were going to begin to work on and then he made the change to become the managing director and, as a matter of fact, that is how we have gotten to the point now where we are going to take over the six rec facility centers and also the three pools. I know the new executive director is coming in and that is something that we have to continue to look forward to work on.
Commissioner, I appreciate your response. Let me just, without pulling out the record, remind you that at least my recollection of that hearing last year was when we were downstairs I believe you and Mr. Mifflin were at the table and I asked a question about that particular charter section. While Mr. Mifflin did not have a specific response, your response was a ten-day response. Subsequently, I believe that was amended when the managing director at the time, managing director Richman came up to the table, but, to the best of my knowledge, other than hearing that that 1189 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget was possibly going to be a part of the strategic plan that was being done for Fairmount Park, which does not involve the Recreation Department, to the best of my knowledge since that time I have not seen any semblance of a coordinated recreation plan for the City in accordance with that particular provision of the City charter and that was long before managing director Richman left to become secretary. So let's go from the time last year up through the tail end of '02 and tell me what, if any, effort was made to either respond to the question or be in compliance with that particular provision of the Home Rule Charter.
I want to make sure that I respond properly. I remember us being here and I remember that piece of the conversation.
Thank you. And I don't believe that there was a document or anything what we had developed between Mr. Mifflin and the managing director. I would have to see maybe a reference back to the testimony that was given. If I can get a copy of that, I will, because I want to 1190 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget make sure that I respond properly.
Commissioner, I would be glad to send it over to you. Again, I actually tried to follow up on this shortly after that time at the budget hearings. I actually received a response. It was not an answer. It was a response that basically indicated you guys were looking at it, there were some discussions, possible anticipated changes under discussion over at Fairmount Park. We know subsequently Director Mifflin left, but my impression of the response or my recollection of the response was that a fair amount of discussion was going on, but it also potentially involved changes in the leadership over in the park director position. Again, that is long gone and I can send a copy of that particular portion of the testimony back over to you, but I would like an answer to that question and I would like it to be definitive. I would like it to be responsive. I would like it to be in conformance to the provision of the Home Rule Charter that involves a coordinated recreation plan for the City of Philadelphia that also encompasses Fairmount Park for any facilities that they have jurisdiction of. 1191 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget As we know based on earlier today and from your own testimony, almost all of the Fairmount Park recreational facilities will be under the responsibility of the Department of Recreation, so you will, in essence, be writing a complete plan for all recreation centers, but I will be glad to send you a copy of the testimony, the Q and A as well as the provision of the Home Rule Charter about this particular issue, but I would like an answer.
Let's go to the performance measure impact statement. There is something on here I don't exactly understand. Under aquatics it says number of total participants. Now, I know our programs are highly attractive and are superior in nature, but I need you to explain to me how you had between June and September 1,900,000 people participating in the aquatics program.
Councilman, that's a cumulative number. That is over a ten-week period, so that will be around 190,000 a week, and then they just added it up and that's how you come up to that. 1192 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget If you add it up, we have 80 pools approximately. There is 2500 to 3000 in each pool per week. That is how you come up to that number.
Thank you. I'm going to assume that Councilman Ortiz went through -- when I came in, I heard he was on or in another document in the contract area. You had a fair amount of discussion about contracts? Were you in 3922?
Yes, sir. He wants us to reply back. He is going to give us a copy of the contract summary that he was referencing and we will reply back and give it to Madam President.
Okay. Just tell me one thing. I think we may have heard about this at budget time. The health safety fund, what exactly is that?
That's a contract through Safe and Sound that, according to the advice we were given by the budget office a couple days ago, it looks like Safe and Sound has found 1193 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget additional funding and will not be needing those funds so those funds will come back to the Recreation Department.
Well, I have a program that I would be interested in -- if you are going to have those dollars back and they are obviously not designated for anything right now because you just found that out, there is this state-licensed after-school program that I would like to propose that you utilize that funding for out in the 4th District. It just occurred to me that maybe we should seek to pursue that. Commissioner, tell me a little bit about recreation facilities, how many we have, how many we need. The Mayor's budget message seemed to indicate that from his perspective at least we may have too many recreation facilities and because of our budget issues some may need to be closed. Can you tell us what your plan is to be responsive to the Mayor's concerns about budget?
I already spoke to that, but in brief I have no plan as of yet. That is something that will be developed through all of the Councilmanic districts and throughout. 1194 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget What we have looked at from a City and administrative viewpoint is all of the other large major metropolitan cities, the population and the type of facilities. That will be something that you and your other co-workers will work with for us 7 to continue to work on. There is nothing 8 definitive. 9
That was a nice 10 try. That was a nice try. 11 Commissioner, what do you think the 12 criteria will be to try to arrive at these 13 decisions? This is one that I guess you really do 14 want us to participate in unlike some of the other 15 decisions that get made where you guys just decide 16 on your own what you're going to do. You want us now to be involved in the closing discussion. We don't get to be in the opening discussion, but you want us to be in the closing discussion. I understand that.
Thank you so much. Why don't you maintain the same policy that you have been utilizing on the opening policy and you maintain that on the closing policy? 1195 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget
I understand that. I didn't think you were going to be taking the locks off of doors or anything, but I'm assuming at some point you are going to have to make some recommendations or go through some analysis. Can you give me a little advance understanding of your thought process about this?
The biggest thing, first of all, will probably be proximity and location, probably the size, where are the facilities and the types of services, the age of the facility, things of that nature.
What facilities do you think would qualify under that set of criteria?
I have no idea right now, Mr. Councilman. I haven't even begun.
When do you think 1196 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget you will be talking to us about it?
I probably will have to get with the managing director and the finance department to find out because I'm sure it will be a huge effort if it is something that is definitely going to take place. I will get with Rob. I will get with the rest of the administration to find out.
Well, I think the five-year plan is assuming savings in fiscal year '05. Now, that starts July 1, 2004. It is actually not that far away.
If I'm not mistaken, which I am often mistaken at times, that may be the closing of the Vet Stadium.
I'm reading from the budget message on , "but you can rest assured I do not propose to simply close facilities at random. Instead my administration will work closely with City Council, the School District and community groups to determine which venues can be combined, which services can be incorporated into other 1197 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget facilities, the best ways to invest some of the savings in other City and School District facilities so that residents have a higher quality of service than may now be available. In order to allow time to make thoughtful decisions, the plan does not assume any savings until FY '05." I mean no one needs our permission to close Veterans Stadium. We made that decision when we funded the two new stadiums down in the sports complex, so I don't think that's what the Mayor was talking about. Nobody is going to be upset about Vet Stadium closing.
Right. I understand that, but we haven't begun -- I haven't begun as of yet to look and to start doing this process or this plan and, once again, in my earlier testimony, that was a directive that I will have to take from the high level of administration and it will be a much larger coordinated effort including you all people and the neighborhood as well, sir.
All I can suggest to you is since that information has been put out, the citizens of the city are on rather high alert. They have their own alert system and so now people are 1198 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget trying to figure out whose center is on what list. They are asking us that information. I didn't put that out there. It was put out in the public, but I think a reasonable person would think that if that thought is out there, there must be something going on within the government, and you will never be able to convince anyone otherwise, that it wouldn't be put out unless something was going on with it. I mean you are not going to wake up one day and just arbitrarily, I would hope, make these kinds of decisions. So there must be some decision-making process. There must be some criteria. There must be some standards that will be utilized and I think this Council deserves on behalf of our constituents to know as early as possible what the situation may be. That will also affect funding decisions. I mean it makes no sense with the limited funding that we have and a declining capital budget to make investments in certain facilities if they are subsequently going to be closed. You are a business person. You understand cost benefit analysis and a return on investment. That wouldn't make any sense. So I think we do have to have some level 1199 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget of understanding at the moment and be honest with the citizens about what's going on.
Rob Dubow, budget director. Our goal is to have a process that will let us make decisions by the time we hit the next budget process, which would mean towards December of this year. We want to work, as the Commissioner said, with the community, with Council, with unions to figure out the exact criteria. We have a sense that among the things we want to look at are proximity of facilities to each other, usage, but we don't have a final set of criteria, but that's the kind of process we want to go through to get us to a decision point for next year's budget.
I think to put a number on this -- I'm looking at Page Roman Numeral XVII in the introduction page of the five-year plan, you have a line item near the bottom, right-size the number of facilities, which again I will assume are not only rec facilities but possibly some others. You are anticipating saving $16 million.
I understand that, 1200 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget but $16 million is a lot of money.
That's right. And we are assuming when we get to the end of this process there will be facilities that will close and that will generate savings. The number is clearly an estimate.
Who is going to make the closure decision? How is that going to work?
In the end the Mayor working with Council will make those decisions.
Let me just make sure that I'm understanding this. We have told people that we may close some facilities. We cannot tell them when. We cannot tell them where.
And between now and 1201 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget then some process may or may not happen that may or may not involve them.
No, there will be a process. We said there would be a process that will involve community representation, involve Council, and it will have a set of criteria that hasn't been finalized yet that will include things like usage, proximity to other facilities.
And the expectation here is that people would then somehow agree to allow you to close their facility.
That they would agree on criteria that would be used to determine facilities to close, yes.
Let me ask this question: How about the flip side of that? How about rather than trying to just, as they say sometimes at the hospital, make the patient as comfortable as possible and let them slowly go away, how about if we try to actually get more people in the City? Is that a plausible alternative as opposed to just slowly declining and shrinking, how about if we try to grow the population for a whole host of reasons, not just to keep rec centers open? 1202 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget Tell me about that game plan. Or how about increasing the usage at facilities? It is not like we don't have a larger universe to work from. If we are serving 50,000 kids now and we believe we have upwards of 400,000 kids somewhere running around the City, how about trying to offer programs and facilities that encourage even more people to come and use them?
We do offer programs that we hope will encourage people to use our facilities. We do have programs that the Commerce Department runs, for example.
I don't want to be misunderstood. I think we have a lot of good programs. I think we have a lot of good facilities. What I'm suggesting is if more people are using the facilities, does that affect whether or not the decision is made to close the facility, or does that not matter?
Okay. But that would then affect your budget issues, right? Because you are expecting to get savings -- at least 1203 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget from a five-year plan perspective, this is an item that is being looked at not from a service standpoint, but from a saving standpoint. We are trying to save money.
Right. In some ways it is looked at in both because one of the things that we are saying we want to do with savings from closing facilities is invest in facilities that are left -- that are still open to ensure that there is higher quality service.
You have capacity at those facilities. You can only put -- there are only so many hours in the day, only so many rooms, only so many instructors, only so much space that you can fill a place with. Has that analysis been factored into this?
Yes. That is part of the analysis, where are the facilities that -- I mean part of the analysis is usage, yes.
Okay. Commissioner, we are clear about you have some information requests that need to come to us and we are clear on what they are?
Yes, sir. The coordinated 1204 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget recreation plan; am I correct?
Also on the licensing issue, give you a map showing the location of the teen and the license and after-school sites. Did I get them all, sir?
Those were mine, and I think the other outstanding ones I know had to do with contracts and professional services as well as you are going to let me know whether there are any minority or female companies that provide equipment to us, right? Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to be brief. Could you explain, whoever the most appropriate person is at REC, the Mummers Museum, what responsibility the administration has, the Recreation Department has in the maintenance at that facility?
That would be our 1205 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget division. We are responsible for the day-to-day maintenance and operations of the facility, Councilman.
In preparation for this upcoming Tuesday night events, Mummers Under the Stars event that is conducted there, hundreds of primarily senior citizens attend that on Tuesday evening where different bands perform, and a few years ago I asked for some improvements to be made there, broken concrete, benches that were broken, no 12 place for people to sit. They have to bring their own beach chair, which is okay. It is kind of like the little niche that is associated with that, but no permanent seating and they drug in some old, beat-up grandstand that they probably found someplace. I would really appreciate -- I see there are 60,000-some dollars budgeted for that operation at the Mummers Museum -- that like we do at other recreation facilities prior to the recreation season that there be some consideration of the safety of that facility especially the outdoor area. There are trees that are uprooted that are creating tripping hazards at that facility and again I want 1206 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget to mention that this is a facility, those evening events, are primarily our older folks out for some recreation, and I would feel real, real bad if one of them got hurt at that facility trying to spend a couple hours out having fun, and it is a nice, nice draw. And I would also consider, since we are doing all of this advertising in the Recreation Department, that that program get a little publicity also. I know it's fairly well attended, but I think it's another secret that we keep about some of the good things that we do and I truly enjoy stopping in there for the half hour, minutes that I stop. 15 It's a lot of fun and you see people dancing, again 16 our older folks, and I would like a commitment today 17 that we are going to try to make that place a safe 18 place with seats that aren't broken and all the 19 things that we need, proper lighting. The stage was 20 in bad shape. That was vandalized and I know there had to be some emergency repairs to that, but I would hope going into that season that that facility be neat and clean and safe.
Yes, sir. Items that we can repair inhouse we will take care of from a 1207 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget department standpoint and some capital items we can discuss with the capital programs office to see that they are addressed in the budget in the capital program.
I don't see any really big dollar items there. There may be, but I think the stage was recently redone, which is great. And I suggest that you stop down there, Commissioner, if you haven't to see how much fun the folks that attend that Tuesday night event and the other events and I'm equally as concerned about the inside, but I'm primarily concerned about that particular venue, that Tuesday night Mummers Under The Stars event which I recommend to everyone. It is fun and I think it's free. Isn't it free? It is free. You can't beat that, fun and free.
I will work closely with Tom. He's closely associated with the Mummers Parade.
So we will work closely making sure we get those items done, sir.
They still want to 1208 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget march on Broad Street, by the way. Madam President, thank you.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam President. You should see Councilman Rizzo do the Mummers Strut.
He's a veteran, and that's coming from somebody from 2nd Street and a Mummer myself, and Tom Fox does a great job with the Mummers. I know it is such an easy group to deal with. It's like dealing with the Balkans. Commissioner, how many years have you been commissioner?
So you have been around since the inception of Safe and Sound.
In your experience, what I'm trying to determine, is there money from 1209 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget the Recreation Department that was originally in the Recreation Department's budget that was diverted to Safe and Sound, and, if so, how much over the period of time since you have been commissioner?
I'm aware of -- we had one employee, Chiefy, Anthony Nazario, and it was his salary, but I'm not aware of anything other than that that is directly in there.
Could you explain to me the difference between teen centers, after-school programs and recs and how they are different than -- first of all, where they came from, what agency was the initiator of those programs, and how they are different than or better than the programs traditionally conducted by the Recreation Department since I was a child growing up in the department, in the rec centers. What's the difference and how are they different?
The after-school program is something that had taken place not just here in Philadelphia but throughout the United States. Back 1210 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget in the '80s when not just here in Philadelphia but all across the United States they were cutting and slashing budgets and some of the first folks to get slashed were the parks system or the parks in recreation or the Recreation Department and then a lot of social worker psychologists dealing with children realized that funded right and properly managed, that rec centers could help be a major crime deterrent, so funding was started to be put back in. A lot of the statistics were showing that in the hours of 3:30 or 3:00 to 8:00 at night kids didn't have a lot of things to do, unstructured activities.
I don't mean to interrupt you because I agree with everything that you are saying. I don't think there is any dispute that those are all the facts, but in traditional rec centers in Philadelphia, and I'm 44 and lived in Philadelphia my whole life, there were programs, all kinds of rec center programs. There were athletic programs, cultural programs, different types, not your traditional athletics, but gymnastics and tumbling and you name it. All of those programs existed. The rec centers were open after school. I 1211 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget obviously didn't go during school. I went after school, so I guess that was kind of an after-school program, weekends, summer. There were programs specified for teens. There were older programs where kids of the teenage years would participate. As computers came on line and became more functional and available, we started to see computers pop up in rec centers, and a lot of these programs were thought up and conducted and carried out by Recreation Department personnel. Are we just putting different names on what we have been doing forever in the Recreation Department despite the lack of resources? I don't really seem to understand that if I go to the rec center for a program after school, it is now called an after-school program. When I was going there, it was called the rec center, which is where I went and that's where young people went and had a rec leader and assistant leaders and others in the department, in the facility that organized the basketball, organized the arts and crafts, organized the sculpture, whatever it was that those rec leaders did. What's different and why do they have different names? 1212 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget
I think maybe because of some of the intentional results that they are trying to create and I respect and understand and follow everything that you were saying. I did the same thing, went to the rec center, CYO after school. I know the after-school program was specifically designed to enhance, to help kids with homework. I know there is also a food component to help, which I am sure you know that as well, helping feed the children snacks over there, whatever the case may be. The rec program is something that is an offset to continue to compliment the computer technology, the accessibility that the library had already begun, and I know for a fact that some of the rec centers had computers; some of them didn't. Some of them were hand-me-downs, and it is just enhancements to continue to improve or give options, and the same things with the teen piece.
My concern is that somehow because they have different names to these programs now, that somehow the rec department wasn't successful in its mission, that somehow we had to change the way in which services were being 1213 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget delivered, but it seems to be the same services just delivered in many ways under different names, and again we are always talking about budgets, always talking about not having enough money and the way in which the Mayor has delivered the budget address, it seems that we are going to be trimming or tightening other things, but after all the discussion of all of these different programs I still don't understand what is so different about what we have always done, and I would like your perspective. Is there something really -- Deputy Commissioner Carapucci, you have been around longer than I.
I will give you a couple differences on the teen center, youth access center and a regular A center. The youth access centers began about ten years ago and they were -- the idea of those were to put extra resources into the centers so that they would not only just be a rec center but you could work with, say, the health department. You could work with people from the schools to enhance the services and a lot of the funding from those youth access centers come from HSDF. It doesn't come out of the regular operating 1214 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget department. In other words, the supervisor and we have one leader, let's say at a center like Vare, that will come out of the regular City operating budget, but the others that we hire to supplement the program there, they come out of the HSDF funding. So that is your youth access centers and they are basically -- I think we have seven of those and that money is purely grant money and we have been getting it every year now for about nine or ten years. The teen centers came about a few years ago based on the crime data and things like that and that was supposed to be for expanded hours and to fix the facility up and to buy equipment that we normally can't buy like pooltables and games for the kids and their own lounge and all that type of thing. And we have some expanded hours there also. And that also is grant money. The after-school program, and I remember exactly what you are talking about, going to the center after school, because we all did that as kids, but the after school is basically centered for the kids say ages 6 to 11 and we hire a staff person 1215 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget with City funds and they are there from 3:00 to 6:00 to work with the kids and basically in their own room where it is a separate -- it is more like a classroom structure. And that's the only difference whereas when we grew up, we went to the rec center and you had the ceramics room and you had the basketball court and it was a little different, but you still have that. You still have your regular rec centers like, for instance, down not too far from the area you are in like Palumbo's. That is not a youth access center or a teen center. That is a rec center, but it also has after-school programs.
My point to the question is can't you simply model all of these programs based on our traditional model with some changes for the times and have them in every playground? Again, Palumbo's does it on their own because the rec leader and the district people initiated that I assume. Why do we need to wait, as Councilman Nutter questioned, on which districts get their rec centers chosen, how this happens? If we were coordinating -- you're the recreation commissioner obviously and you have control of those 1216 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget centers. Why do we need to go through this other process of deciding who gets opened, who doesn't, why, what's a pilot program, why aren't we just replicating what they are doing at Palumbo's, what they are doing at Rizzo Rink, what they are doing at Marion Anderson? These are all Recreation Department personnel doing these things they have been doing for the 44 years I have been on the earth and probably for 44 more years. Why are we going through this process of who gets what and who gets chosen and having Councilman Nutter concerned that they don't like him anymore or something, that none of his stuff is getting picked? I really don't see much of a difference.
Oh, no. I'm being facetious. I'm just trying to be funny. I'm sorry. But it does lead certain members to believe or be concerned what's the matter with me? Were we annexed by Montgomery County or something or we are not part of the City anymore? I think a lot of these good programs -- I know at Rizzo Rink, for example, because I'm involved with it personally, 1217 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget the computer programming and all of the stuff that has been there was done not as a youth access center or a teen center; it was done as part of the Recreation Department. That's their mission, and I think, to me, we get lost in all of these titles and different programs and we can access grant money through the rec department as well as anybody. So I think the Rec Department should be more in control of what it is we are doing in our rec centers as opposed to probably having some influence from outside the department or in another part of the government. Thank you.
Thank you very much. I want to talk briefly about my favorite subject. Guess. The Dell. Tell me a little bit about the Dell. What's going on? I'm looking through this book this afternoon and I see the Dell listed on -48. The staff is listed under maintenance.
That's correct, Councilwoman Tasco. When I first came to the Department of Recreation April 10 of 2000, I was 1218 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget assigned to the Dell East, but I was also assigned to the maintenance division and it was always on the program; however, I felt if it is under my jurisdiction and responsibility, it had to be under the department in which I worked in. That's why I was transferred over to maintenance. It's still a separate item. I would like for it to be a separate item in the budget, but currently since I'm in charge of maintenance, it is under my division.
And who is the concert facility manager? Is that Rush?
He is acting concert facilities manager. We haven't identified a full-time permanent concert facility manager.
At this point in time, no, but we are considering looking for one for this year and the years beyond, to put someone in permanently.
Where would the other costs for the operation of the facility be in this budget?
At this point I don't see 1219 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget another fiscal line item that shows the cost for the Dell East. Normally it was reported separately.
So how do we know how much we are paying for the Dell and what we are paying for?
I'm sorry. On -53 there are in terms of the operating facility costs for contracts and so forth. That is in that line item also.
I don't know how I missed that one. It is under maintenance; that's why. Okay. So what does that buy us?
The approximate 388,000 covers the operational cost of the venue including talent costs, professional service contracts including electrical, sound, stage and lighting and so forth. That has not been included in this budget, but I can provide that to you.
How are you going to pay for it if it's not in the budget?
It is in the budget. It 1220 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget is not itemized. But the 388,000 does cover it.
The food service contract, is that a sole-source contract or is that bid out every year?
That is bid out every three years. It is bid out through the Procurement Department.
Yes. It is a one-year contract with the department's option to renew every year.
The Procurement 1221 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget Department can better answer on how that process works.
I know. We went through that. One of the things that I noticed that has changed, you know I'm a frequent patron of the Dell in the summer, and I do have a concern about not being able to take a bottle of water there. I do not like standing in long lines to get a bottle of water and we are searched when we come in to see if we have anything in our bags. I do not like that.
I understand. To answer your question in terms of allowing water to come into the venue, as part of the contract with the concessionaire, the policy has been that since that is a beverage that is sold, it affects the cost that comes into the venue, and since they have the concession, they make the decision in regards to water coming into the venue since it is sold through the concession stand. The second part of your question was the search. Although we have not had many incidents at the Dell, we have had people that come to the Dell 1222 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget with firearms, with weapons, and we have taken that out of people's hands and make them return to the car if it was legal or turn it over to the Police Department, and although 99 percent of the crowd comes in a peaceful environment, we can't risk having just one person injured as a result of us not taking safety precautions and that's why those systems were put in place. It was basically for the public's protection and not to harass and intimidate anybody else.
The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo for a point of information.
Do we have any plain old free Philadelphia water available at the Dell like in the form of -- Evian or however you pronounce it, I don't need that. I was raised on this. Is there a water fountain at the Dell that people can just go get a drink of free old water?
Yes, there is, and also we have made concessions for people with health and medical emergencies that need to come in and bring their own water into the venue.
How many water 1223 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget fountains are there, free water fountains, at Robin Hood Dell?
How many people? What's the maximum attendance at Robin Hood Dell?
You better not be thirsty. You would have to go buy a bottle at the concession stand. Seriously, how much is a bottle of water there?
I think you need to fix that real quick. I think we need to have some water fountains at that venue to allow people to get a drink of water that don't want to spend two bucks for a bottle of water, at least that's my opinion.
It is inconvenient and then not to be able to bring your own too.
Yes, ma'am. We can revisit that, definitely. 1224 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget
The ladies' bathroom, are we going to ever fix the air-conditioning? Why does it blow hot air in the summertime?
This year we did make some structural arrangements and unfortunately it did not satisfy the constituents as we wanted it to. We tried to put another air-conditioning system in and also a ventilation system that will allow external heat not to flow into the ladies' bathroom, to flow outwards. So it is a structural problem that we definitely have to address. We can look at trying to put more ventilation in that area to try to cool the area off, but it is a continuous problem that we tried to address last year and we are going to try to focus on it again this year.
You can take that sofa out. Nobody is going to sit on it.
You're welcome. Councilman Nutter, did you want to be 1225 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget recognized?
Thank you, Madam President. I love this place. Commissioner, can I have -- and, again, this is a general request. Please forward it through the Chair. This discussion about the after-school programs and the different programs that we have, it has been difficult, and I commend you guys -- and I mean guys in a gender-neutral way, everyone -- for your ability to actually keep up with the variety of programs, the different funding sources and the like. It would be helpful, though, if you could provide to us information with a listing by center, and what may be the most user-friendly for us at least because of our orientation to information is to maybe take all of the different centers and programs, whether it is the teen centers, this other thing, RECS, that acronym that I know stands for something, and the discussion we were having about the state-licensed after-school programs, and then all of the facilities, if you could tell us what different programs are offered at 1226 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget the various centers including after-school programs, who runs the program, what type of activity is available, hours of operation for the different programs, I think that would be very helpful because it's just hard at times to keep track of it all and you have a constituent who calls and they want to know what is available and other than telling them to call right to the center or go over for a visit, it is exceedingly becoming difficult -- you know, at a certain level it's a nice problem to have that we have so many programs, but it is getting a little hard these days to keep track of everything and who is funding what, who's in control of what, all of these kinds of issues. Along with that, who monitors all of the after-school programs?
It comes under the program division and my after-school manager is Kathy Muller for the programs that we have in our department. 1227 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget
So, for instance, how many after-school programs does the department run?
And there is an individual at each site that is in charge of those programs?
Yes. The department hires one recreation specialty instructor, which is a part-time seasonal person to administer the program. In addition, what we have done is we previously had more programs. We had 144 programs two years ago. As we look to quality, we looked at our staff/child ratios and there were some centers that there were two or three children attending that they were two or three blocks away from another facility, so we reorganized our staff and we now have at many of our centers two people working with the children. We also have partnered with a number of faith-based institutions and through some of our grant dollars we bring in artists and enhancement staff, so at some centers we may have three or four people at a given time.
When you indicated 1228 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget that they are seasonal, my recollection of the seasonal designation is that it is usually about a six-month?
You are correct, but we went before the Civil Service Commission. Because we wanted the continuity with the children, we felt we needed to have the staff on for nine months. They work from the 1st of September to the first week of June, so therefore there is consistency with the children.
The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz for a point of clarification.
Does the same person then supervise the teen center programs?
In most cases, no, there is separate staff for the teen centers, but what we have done at two or three of the teen centers is where we have a good after-school person that has extensive training, we are able to appropriate additional hours so that they can supplement the program in the evenings with the teen centers.
I think the question that Councilman Nutter asked goes to the recreation 1229 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget centers are under your jurisdiction, are they not?
So you're responsible for any and all activity that takes place in there.
And now you have these other agencies coming in and I would like to find out, and I think Councilman Nutter, how the directions and responsibilities are shared and who shares them?