What we do with the after school, most of these staff are on our payroll. We hire them. We recruit them. We train them. We check their background. We make sure they have their first aid, CPR, their state child line clearance and their criminal background checks.
We recruit directly from the community. The leader at each of the sites, we have a job description, and it is really up to them to reach out into the community because it is our 1230 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget thought that the strength of the program is that someone from the community is hired. They know the children. They know the culture of the community, and they are the best people to work in the program.
As that activity takes place, as all of us kind of retreat from our various offices back to where we come from, is it possible that you could share some of that information when those opportunities become available?
Absolutely especially in some communities it would aid us with our recruiting.
We would only want to be helpful. We wouldn't want to be an obstacle to anybody.
So the people are on the payroll. You get your exemption or extension from Civil Service. Now, are these the only people who for the term "seasonal" means nine months as compared to everyone else who still means six months? 1231 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget
At each of the sites in June there is a personnel evaluation conducted by the leader in charge of the facility. In addition to that, we track in the central office all of the training hours that the individual has completed. We require hours of staff training for every 11 person who works in our after-school program. 12 Myself and additional staff as well as the 13 recreation permanent staff, we know most of the 14 folks who work in the program, so therefore when we 15 receive the evaluation from the site supervisor, we 16 also review that, and if we have any comments, we 17 add them. 18
What about program 19 quality and any third-party or independent 20 evaluation of programs? 21
The Recreation Department 22 has worked consistently on the core standards. 23 These are minimum standards that need to be met for 24 any kind of programs that serve the youth in Philadelphia. We also have engaged the services of 1232 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget Temple University to conduct after-school evaluation and that has helped guide us as we have made decisions as far as program content, staffing evaluation, pretty much everything we do.
Is there a document that is actually produced and how often does this evaluation take place?
I believe the last evaluation was done in 1999 and I can certainly produce those documents.
At this point we are considering that, but we did not have an active evaluation plan in process.
It just sounds like the kind of thing that on a somewhat of a four, maybe five-year cycle you just want to have a regular evaluation. It may also potentially help with funders if you have regular evaluations that you can show --
-- what's going on. As a park is going through a strategic plan and 1233 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget subsequent evaluation of facilities, maybe this is something that we want to take a look at to have on a fairly regular basis. Also, if you could share that information with us in terms of an evaluation or a plan of regular evaluations, that would be helpful.
Commissioner, you are also going to get for us a complete listing of all the after-school programs, the site, who runs the program, the hours of operation, what the offerings are and what services and programs the kids have available to them?
Yes, sir. We have a document already, but we are producing a formal professional directory as well. We are looking around to the end of May to have it produced, but I have a document that I can give to you immediately, but, yes, sir.
That would be great. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. 1234 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm getting bleary-eyed here. Going back to the Robin Hood Dell, I am still not clear. You have sponsors for concerts, right, like Budweiser and --
That is not included in the overall budget that you submit to us?
Could you itemize to us the way in 39-53, support for summer concert series, is done? I would like to see that in terms of an itemized situation.
In terms of revenues that are brought in versus expenditures?
How you contract out who, what, where, when, that type of thing, how the 1235 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget money is spent.
If you can itemize that and a list of sponsors that you get that supplement the activities.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon. I wasn't privy to all the testimony today and I want to ask a question that may have been answered earlier. During the most recent snowstorm particularly in newer parts of my district, I have gotten several complaints about the maintenance of the perimeter; i.e., the sidewalks of the recreation facilities in and around locations in Kensington and Fishtown. What's the strategy associated with maintenance of recreation facilities that happen to be in the neighborhood that have sidewalks that need to be traversed by constituents and residents? 1236 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget
Good afternoon, Councilman. The snow plan for our department usually goes in the following order. We address the older adult centers and the after-school programs in priority order, older adults, school programs and after-school programs, and then Class A, B, C and D facilities and then parks, cul-de-sacs and breezeways, and that is the priority order in which we address them. Normally we make sure paths are cleared for walkways to and from especially during the entrance of those facilities where it is highly used and then other parts are done, whether we do paved driveways or streets and so forth.
Sidewalks are done to the extent that we get in front of the entranceways to the facility and we try to get the sidewalks around the existing perimeter.
Where is that on the list of priorities, the sidewalks? I mean the homeowners, their primary responsibility is the sidewalk, right, per the law, per the law? I mean, 1237 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget frankly speaking, I'm sure the City doesn't really care if most residents clean their porch, their steps. They want you to clean the sidewalk first. So shouldn't that be ranked rather high on the City's municipal facilities?
Right. It should be around the entire facility and, again, it is done in priority order based on the level of the facility and the usage level like older adult centers, after-school programs.
You keep talking about the level of the facility. If an A center has a sidewalk and C center has a sidewalk, are you telling me that the A center sidewalk is more important than the C center sidewalk?
The sidewalk has nothing to do with the facility. The sidewalk is the sidewalk. It's the pedestrian footway. So it should have nothing to do with the level of the 1238 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget facility being a Z facility. The sidewalk is a public easement. It is the responsibility of every property owner including the City of Philadelphia to clean the sidewalk, right?
There is no priority in terms of cleaning sidewalks and so forth. I was trying to explain -- I'm sorry for not understanding what you were asking -- what was being done first and what was being done on other occasions.
Let me be clear with this because, unfortunately, we will probably get another snow and I hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong because we can't afford another one. If we get another snow, the first thing that the Recreation Department does is clean the sidewalks.
Clean the sidewalks at the older adult centers first. A sidewalk is a sidewalk.
I don't understand what is the difference between a sidewalk at an 1239 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget older adult center other than the fact that the older adults may have a difficult time getting to the sidewalk, but a sidewalk is a sidewalk. It doesn't matter where it is.
Right. You are exactly right. It is because of the usage of the facility and also we feed -- a lot of the seniors are fed lunch or breakfast or do activities there, so we use that little priority to give service but, no, our goal like you said, Mr. Councilman, is to do every sidewalk, but we go to the senior adult centers first. We go to the sites where we host after-schools and the facilities that are adjacent or across the street from schools and then we just continue to work our way out from there, but that is how we prioritize to go to hit those facilities first. But a sidewalk is a sidewalk.
I don't understand. I hear what you're saying and I can understand providing access to a senior facility or a program, a facility who has an after-school program, but I think that the sidewalks should be the first priority, regardless of where it is, what type of program that is being run because if our Joe Q 1240 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget citizen is being asked to clean my sidewalk and if I don't clean it, I'm going to get fined, I don't understand why municipal facilities should be able to prioritize the sidewalk based on the usage of the particular unit. If I live in an apartment building or a single family dwelling, we want the sidewalk cleaned. It doesn't matter what goes on in the interior of the property. And you know the particular facility I'm talking about over in Fishtown. The sidewalk was not done. It took a few days to get it done and I was a little concerned. It happened not to be an older adult center, but the people couldn't walk down the sidewalk and having to walk in the street, it was extremely dangerous because of the small street and ice on the street.
We feel the same way. A sidewalk is a sidewalk is a sidewalk.
In earlier testimony in another hearing we were talking about advertising rights on facilities and on a couple of facilities we utilized advertisement to some degree. I know we got some backboards put up I think in Master playground and maybe a couple others where they had Sprite or Coca Cola on the backboard and I'm 1241 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget assuming that we were able to get some revenue to the facility or to the advisory council as a result of that. What is our policy on that? If we have a recreation facility -- and I was actually thinking about 26th and Master as an example. Commissioner, you and I visited the facility and the boxing program over there is a pretty strong boxing program and there was some questions as to whether or not we could solicit ESPN to advertise at the facility and support the boxing program. What's the process if we get a potential sponsor?
All of that is handled -- once it is presented, we will pursue it, but all of it is consummated and handled through the City Solicitor's office.
So we go out and we solicit the advertisement, the sponsor, which is then turned over to the law department to write a contract?
Yes, sir, making sure that everybody is covered, indemnified, all compliance on both parties.
Is there any 1242 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget criteria associated with what is allowable at the facility and, if so, is that designated by the rec department or by the law department?
I want to say I don't believe there is anything written, but I know that me personally and what I have done in the past and what I have been doing here now, anything dealing with the gaming industry or negative type of environment, tobacco industry or whatever, I will just tell the executive or the potential sponsor if you really want to do something, how much would it make a difference with you doing it without getting the advertisement. 99 percent of the time or a hundred percent of the time if it's a negative message to the youth, we say thank you but no thank you. The ESPN or the Nike or whatever it is, if we are fortunate to be able to pursue something in that positive level, we will pursue it and we would allow the staff to pursue it and we would have the solicitor's office to make sure everything is on the up for the City and for the potential sponsor or funder too.
And that criteria is 1243 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget something that you can determine internally?
Can I have a point of clarification on that if I may?
Commissioner, is it your understanding that the monies generated from whatever signage there would be would go to the Recreation Department or to the general fund?
It can be set up -- you can have a sponsor that may come up and say we would like to give a donation directly for athletic boxing or for Shepard boxing program or for Palumbo soccer group and we always embrace that. So we wouldn't want to tell a potential sponsor, well, no, it has to go here, so if there's something particular or specific that they would like to fund, we welcome that. We just make sure that it is from a good message and that it is in compliance through the City's Law Department.
Because I think it was my understanding that whatever monies were generated from a particular rec center would stay at that facility; however, in going through the 1244 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget five-year plan, it would appear as though implement strategic marketing initiatives and there is a figure and it would go to the general fund.
He's standing right behind you, so he can respond.
Monies generated through the strategic marketing initiative would go to the general fund.
But if it were for a recreation center, why wouldn't it stay at the center? Are they all in such wonderful condition that we don't need money?
No. We need money for many things throughout the City. One of the things that revenue goes for is for the Recreation Department, but it is something that -- 1245 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget
So if somebody is going to contribute, they have to be very specific that it is for the soccer team at such and such a recreation center?
If someone is giving a donation, that would go to that rec center. I didn't actually hear the first part. If that's what the question was, if someone has a specific donation for rec centers, then that would stay at that rec center.
But if it is advertising that rec center, what would happen to the monies?
If it is advertising, then it would be part of the Citywide initiative.
I just wanted to clarify that. Councilman, I didn't know what your understanding was, but I thought it would stay at that recreation center.
Based on my line of questioning, that is what I had hoped to be the 1246 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget case. I would be concerned if we get ESPN to advertise at an athletic rec center and that money then goes in the general fund and we have a boxing ring where the ropes sag to the floor every time somebody gets clocked, that would not obviously have been the intent of that sponsorship. So I would like to see, particularly in a case where it is relative to the particular program that we are hopefully offering the sponsorship to, that that money could be funneled into that particular facility, but, Mr. Dubow, you are saying that that goes into the general fund?
Right. If there is advertising revenue that we are generating through our Citywide initiative, that would go into the general fund. You are saying there is a specific sponsorship that --
Well, it is advertisement. It is ESPN. They want to put a logo. They probably want to put it on the front of the building. I don't know how the rec leader of the community would feel about that, but in exchange for that there was some suggestion that they give money to the program, so how would that work? Would 1247 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget we just say you put the advertisement on the building and then we wink our eyes and in some way funnel this money as a donation directly to the program? Would there not be an annex to the advertisement?
I think now when we do these things it is kind of ad hoc and this would give us a Citywide strategy for doing it and I imagine as part of that strategy still have room for specific sponsorships.
So you don't really know how we are going to handle it at this point, bottom line?
Looking at the five-year plan, I just cannot believe that we would only be generating about 11 million. Councilman Cohen, you have a question on this?
Yes. I think any argument against advertising was just proven, not that Mayor Street would do it, but another mayor might. He 1248 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget might want 500,000 or a million for some other project. He looks around and finds a sponsor among his campaign contributors who wants to do something in some department, use it for advertising purposes and raise money for some totally different purpose, but he will sell the playground's name in order to generate money for the general fund. We have always been told, at least the argument until now -- and I thank Commissioner Richard and the finance, the budget director, Dubow, for their honesty in saying the funds go to the general fund. All that is happening, I think all advertising on any City premises at all is a no-no because all you are doing is cheapening the city and putting it up for sale and finding an alternative way of depriving citizens of their right and their dignity because the City ought not to be for sale and you have proven it by the fact that the money goes into the general fund, not at all for the purpose for which allegedly the advertising is being sold. Commissioner Richard, we are delighted with a lot of the work you are doing, but I find it difficult to understand why you would agree that at 1249 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget a time when unemployment is increasing, when the economy is down, when the need for recreational services are increasing, why anybody could agree to a lessening of the facilities in the City. We need more recreational facilities, not less. You can't say that at any time in Philadelphia's history has there been adequate recreational facilities. There has always been a shortage and now when we need it most there ought to be more recreational facilities provided. I would suggest that the $50,000 that went to the Keel's PR firm to promote children's programs in the Recreation Department, that money could have well been spent much better for equipment for some recreational facility or for a number of facilities and I believe that monies dedicated to recreation ought to be used for that purpose and not for any other purposes like PR or advertising. Everybody knows we need more children's programs. Why in the world would anybody feel that there is a need for a PR contract for $50,000 to promote children's agendas unless, of course, you wanted to help the person who happens to be doing campaign work for you and then you might be looking 1250 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget for other income for him. So I want those views to be clear. And any advertising is going to generate lots of opposition because it is going to certainly generate lots of opposition from me and everything I can do in the community to stir it up. The City of Philadelphia ought not to be for sale to the highest bidders. It ought to be promoting things for the good of the City and not for the good of private interests. I see I dealt with the three items in one lump sum. I would like to hear your response to that, knowing full well that as a commissioner you are limited in your response. None of this is meant to be personal, Commissioner Richard, because in many ways you have done a great deal of good for the Recreation Department.
You have inspired a lot of new interest in it and I know you have been aggressively assisting in every possible way to promote the facilities, but I think you are moving into, to the extent you are responsible -- if you are not responsible, and I suspect that you are probably not for the issues I have raised about advertising and about closing facilities and about 1251 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget PR contracts, if you are free to say so, say so, or just ignore it because we know that decisions generally in cities are made by mayors and not made by commissioners, but I want you to know I think you are treading on very weak ground because if you permit advertising to help you raise funds, even if you use it for purposes of raising funds in the recreational department, all you will do is get the administration's top level official -- I said not Mayor Street, but some other mayor might well do it into the future -- to cut your budget by the amount of money you have gotten from advertising. So all you are doing is not -- you are not doing a thing for the Recreation Department except cheapening it and selling it.
Nothing is personal. Everything is noted and I thank you for your leadership.
I'll accept the answer because I want to see a healthy recreation department in the City. It offers so much to people 1252 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget in Philadelphia. We ought to be the number one City and we ought to proudly carry the name of Philadelphia, not the name of Coors or Budweiser or Nike on our advertising events. What the private companies do like the Eagles and the Phillies, that is their business, but what we as a government do ought to inspire pride in our people.
Thank you, Madam President. I know we don't like to question other Council members. I am just trying to understand if the Councilman's point relates to an organization who utilizes the athletic facility and somehow it was their wish to utilize the advertisement as a way of raising funds for their organization at that particular facility and if somehow we can -- and I hate to use the term "circumvent," but since we used it in an earlier hearing, I will use it here today -- the normal procurement and revenue-generating process where the money has to go into the general fund and it would somehow be able to be directed to the athletic organization in that facility. Would 1253 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget you be concerned about that? Is your concern just general in nature as it relates to advertisement or is it that funding going into the general fund and not directly to the community organization who would like to enter into an arrangement with an advertising entity?
As a multiple choice question, I would answer yes to all of the above. Everything you said would be a concern to me, particularly I missed one point I wanted to emphasize to Commissioner Richard, you stated that you checked things with the City Solicitor. The City Solicitor has no power except to define something as legal or illegal or within the power of the City or not within the power of the City. The City Solicitor makes no moral or ethical judgments. That is left to the City Council and to the Mayor to make the policy decision as to whether it is a good policy. The fact that something is legal does not mean it is acceptable policy. It merely means you 1254 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget are not going to be charged with a crime by the district attorney. And I think that's a very important distinction to make. The fact that something is legal does not say it is a good thing for the City of Philadelphia to do.
Councilman, would you excuse me just a minute, please. I would like to make an announcement. Because of the hour and many of the Council members have previous commitments, we are going to reschedule the Prisons and the Records Departments and we will notify you of the date and time that we will be hearing the budget. I'm sorry for the delay. As you can see, Council members are very much interested in what is happening in the Recreation Department. Thank you very much.
I would like to make an observation about this advertising. Commissioner, before I think you arrived and I don't think it is unique to Philadelphia, I could be supportive of advertising at various 1255 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget facilities, but let me tell you where I'm heading here. I remember when I worked for PECO Energy that we provided the backboards at various basketball courts throughout the City and we had the PECO logo on there. We provided that material to you for your maintenance people to install. That saved your operating budget dollars because we provided you a specification, a material. Now, after you came -- I have to be careful how I say this. I want to make sure that I don't suggest that you didn't follow on that particular track, but I think there are lots of opportunities to save the Recreation Department money by reaching out to corporate sponsors that would provide benches in a recreation center with maybe their corporate logo or backboards or I remember at some of the ice rinks we did the dasher boards -- is that what they call them? -- with advertising, so I don't know if that was money going into the general fund, but there are a lot of opportunities to help defray the cost that you have in the Recreation Department. And I don't know. I see Deputy Commissioner Carapucci shaking his head. I don't know where that program stands or whether 1256 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget there is any revenue generated from it other than providing the physical backboards and nets and all the things that go along with a basketball facility, so maybe you can elaborate on where a program like that is today.
On some of the sites like you saw the ice rinks, the local advisory councils many times will go out and elicit support from the community like with various businessmen and put their signs up and that money will stay with the local advisory council. Also, we have a development person in our office who will go out and deal with major companies for a multiple number of facilities. And that depends on whether we are fortunate enough to have someone who wants to donate to a number of centers. That money many times will stay within the department. But it has never been a major amount of money.
Commissioner, if a company -- I will just throw one out that does great things in this region. If Verizon wanted to sponsor this basketball season all of the backboards in the Recreation Department and put the Verizon logo on 1257 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget it, how could they do it? What would a company have to do? And I'm not suggesting that my colleagues would buy into that, but it doesn't sound improper because we are really not selling anything; we are accepting the materials to make the backboards work with their logo on it.
I appreciate that comment, Councilman, and yours too, Councilman Cohen. Those are things that are already in place. Those are things that we are continuing to do. The 76ers sponsor the Sixers Neighborhood Basketball League as far as equipment, coaching, refereeing. I know in the nine-year history of that project alone, that is a little over a quarter of a million dollars' investment that the Sixers -- the Shepard recreation facility is a prime example of how the City leveraged -- we used our labor force. We got money from the NBA organization. The Sixers bought the backboard -- I mean the new clock. We put it up. IBM even came to the table. So it's not like we are actively going out here soliciting for dollars, but, yeah, we hustle just like it has been going on, hey, can you help us out here and your name is up there, but the 1258 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget majority of it is either hardware, equipment for fixing buildings or whatever, you're right.
Commissioner, one of my staff looking around on the Internet found a program and I think I sent it over to you. Frank Alioto that works with me came into the office and he said, The NFL has a program where they will provide funding for lighting recreation fields. These are the kinds of things that we have to get onto and take advantage of that, so I would like to know, and I can't expect you to pull it out of the air right now, but I would like you to get back with me to let me know where that NFL grant -- apparently there is millions of dollars out there that the NFL has available for lighting recreation facilities.
Yes. I just want to suggest that when Commissioner Richard gives Councilman Rizzo his response, he points out that it is just a tiny return on the hundreds of millions of dollars this City made available to the football team. So that we are talking not of a huge contribution by the football group or the Phillies 1259 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget because both teams got hundreds of millions of dollars. We're spending over a billion dollars to provide them with stadiums, so that any return they give us is just a tiny little dot on a huge balloon that exists in the form of government aid to them. So that anything they can do along that way without publicizing their goodness would be to their credit. They ought to be very grateful for the support that Philadelphia gives to its sports teams both financially and in the way that the fans support the teams. Thank you. I don't mean any necessary disagreement with Verizon, but Verizon does awfully good business in Philadelphia and I think we are entitled to some returns from that too.
Some aspects of it might be worthwhile. I don't see anything wrong with Ocean City, for example, on the boardwalk they 1260 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget have seating benches made available with the names of the sponsors on it, but they are not trying to make a lot of money out of the city, Ocean City. They are not trying to commercialize it. They are offering some benefit.
I understand. Respectfully noted. I understand what you're saying. Thank you.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will be quick, and, unfortunately, unless it is continued, I may miss the mural arts program, which I would again like to reserve the right for a callback. Commissioner, I need to get -- I missed a part of your response to Councilwoman Tasco's question regarding concessions out at the Robin Hood Dell East and apparently there had been a change in provider. I need to get clarification on who is actually providing food service or water service or 1261 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget whatever the particular service is in question at the Robin Hood Dell East?
Presently right now Milton Street Caterers is the present concessionaire at the Dell East.
Hot dogs, fish, basic concessionary items that you will find at a stadium of that type of venue.
Is that through an RFP process, or is that a professional services contract, or is it just a general concession --
And is that lowest responsible bidder or I guess in the concession case it's the highest?
What did the City 1262 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget generate revenuewise from that contract last year?
Do you know what the total revenues generated completely were?
Actually through the monies -- I'm sorry -- the food that was actually distributed there?
I don't have that figure in front of me, sir. I can do the research for you.
And that's a one-year contract with three one-year renewals?
I do have that listing at the office. I know Marietta Caterers was one of 1263 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget them.
If you could get that to us, I would appreciate it. Councilwoman Tasco said on the record that there was a situation or issue with regard to bringing water into the facility and you can't bring water into the facility; is that true?
Yes. One of the products at the Dell is to sell Dasante water through a beverage company so there was a conflict between the concessionaire and people bringing in water.
-- basket and picnic operation and potato chips and pretzels?
No, I'm going to say no. 1264 3/3/03 - Continuing FY '04 Operating Budget I need to verify to make sure because certain security issues changed tremendously from 9/11 and the things that we had been doing. Folks used to be able to bring stuff, but I'm going to say no. 6
I hear what you are saying, but this doesn't sound like it is 9/11 related at all. It sounds like it is an exclusive license on what is being sold and if the person wants to bring in something that is comparable, they can't. It doesn't sound like a security issue out at the Dell.
I'm going to say at the Vet no. We have a contract with ARAMARK as well and the contract with ARAMARK, they sell bottled water.
I understand that. But prior to 9/11 I didn't spend a lot of time down at the Vet, but it seems to me that people at most facilities bring -- they bring their bag of stuff and go to the game and sit and eat, drink, do whatever they want to do and as long as you were not bringing anything illegal or inappropriate, that's my recollection. So let's talk about prior to 9/11. You couldn't bring anything into Veterans Stadium?
So you are saying the reason you can't bring water to the Dell is because water is being sold and part of the contract is if you are selling a product that you can't bring the other product in?
Don't forget to drink your water. Let me better understand -- (Comment by Councilman Cohen was not heard by the