civus
Hearing video

ZBA Hearing - February 24, 2021

Philadelphia Zoning Board of Adjustment (ZBA)Feb 24, 20216h 14m

to Mr. Cain as

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well as the board members.

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Apparently Mr. Cain is not aware of it.

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Is that correct? Yes, we just got it yesterday.

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That would be correct. I will send it now.

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here. All right, Ms. Green, while we're waiting for that, you can continue. Okay, like I said,

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some of the complaints from the neighbors was the height of the canopy and why there was a need for

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canopy. They felt that aesthetically, you know, just a quick repeat, aesthetically, it would be

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impactful in terms of sunlight and skyline and also, you know, and we feel as though, so our

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Approvisor suggested was the solar alternatives with the seven-foot setback, which is the code requirement.

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One of the things in terms of the setback, the seven-foot setback that we support is because –

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what am I trying to – I'm trying to bring – let me bring it up real quick.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Our reason for the setback –

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Excuse me again.

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someone have a radio or television on we're getting feedback

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i'm sorry i apologize okay okay all right the setback was because um

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like i said we thought that adding us uh canopy uh when you have a setback sometimes you have

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panels and do the wind gusts and when the panels can have can fall off or can

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blow with the wind and that means it could fall down on the ground with

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pedestrians walking by we think there's a reason why the city or whoever the

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Planning Commission put in a seven-foot setback for this particular type of

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solar panels and as well as they can be a fire safety panels are known to catch

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on fire and so therefore by them being set back it could also be a deterrent

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in terms of the spread from one roof to another roof uh so uh that was something that we were

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looking at in terms of fire safety risk and why we felt that the five the seven feet would still

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be better than the five feet also we let me interrupt if i can for a second so we don't

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get too far mr kane you you're not seeing this i assume oh i i've received the email from uh

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and i have had a quick quick chance to take a look at it so basically what it looks like to

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me and correct me anyone if I'm wrong the panels are there the same number of panels but they're

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not elevated to the seven foot height they're reduced to whatever height that is and maybe

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that's around like one or two feet yeah. Do you happen to know Mr. Cain speaking to your supplier

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if that would work? I can tell you having worked with our with our contractor for over a year and

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I can tell you, having worked with our contractor for over a year and a half now on this project, that this wouldn't work.

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And there's a couple of reasons.

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As I explained before, and I can show photos, we have very high parapet walls on our roof.

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And so if you had panels lower to the surface of our roof, they're going to be shaded.

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In addition, the way we measure the energy, so we're confident using all the engineering that 12 panels would generate, and just give me one quick second, would generate 5,453 kilowatt hours per year.

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that's based on a really quite a complex analysis looking at where the sun is in this particular

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place on the planet over an entire yearly basis and it takes into account anything like shade or

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anything that's going to get in the way of those panels and for 12 panels um to reach that much

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energy um we need to put them on the pergola um as we're asking for and to get that very modest

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two-foot variance. Finally, just to address two other things, you know, our biggest hardship here

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is to make, you know, it is two things, to get our house fully green, but do it in an economically

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feasible way. And the two-foot variance we're asking for allows for that. What Ms. Green is

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proposing will actually take away surface area of our roof, so it's actually costing us even more

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money to put these panels in. It's putting in more drilling. Each panel has to get a separate

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area to be drilled into a roof, increasing the risk, increasing the cost. The pergola,

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of course, is one structure that then allows for the 12 solar collectors to be mounted on.

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So ultimately, what she's proposing is actually a more expensive way of doing it and isn't going

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to get us to where we want to be and where I think we should be, which is matching our energy

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consumption with solar energy. Well, what we're talking about is the structure. You're talking

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about the collective destruction. Yeah, let me interrupt you if I could again. I apologize. So

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I'm clear on this. Your current proposal is seven foot from the top of the roof to the highest point

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or no um chairman r everything about our project is within code except we'd like to have it two

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feet closer to the front of our roof and to be clear we have a five foot setback by code right

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now and we're asking for the panels to end right at that five foot setback so we're not asking to

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go any farther than our current setback i understand that the code requires seven feet

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requires seven feet so you couldn't hypothetically lower that and and and get it back as far as you

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need to meet uh away from the uh from the parapet right we would i i apologize your honor even if

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we were to lower the perg if we were to lower the pergola uh we still have our pilot house in the

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back and that's really our one of our biggest constraining um problems if it wasn't for that

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pilot house we'd be able to do sort of by right and just move it farther back but unfortunately

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as i showed in the original presentation there's just no way to get the pergola to work um and get

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12 panels right i apologize i mean it's been only a couple weeks but i just want to refresh my

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memory i understand thank you for helping with helping us with that all right um anyone else

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want to testify in this case i'm sorry i meant to ask any questions from the board

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no no miss green

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i think miss green wanted i apologize i cut her off i believe

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no it was me i kept muting her because we do have four other people which could testify

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right but i didn't finish explaining my and why i'm making a recommendation

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sure please please finish please uh proceed rather these these structures we're talking

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about the mount structure not the actual panel we're talking about the structure that holds the

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panels the structures go as low as one foot all the way up to what he is proposing however these

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These structures can start as low as $40, or they can go all the way up until $1,000.

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So he can have his choice.

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But it's the casing of the panels, not the actual panels.

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And you can put one panel on it, or you can put up to 12 panels.

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There are many different types of solar collective structures and ground mounting,

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and that's what we're talking about.

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It was the height of the canopy that people felt was obstructing.

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And I'm not an expert on it, but I think it's only fair that he put in writing what his objectives are. And we have a solar, somebody who deals in solar structures, some of these companies that I research and address that.

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And I'm not an expert on it, but I think it's only fair that he put in writing

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Because, I mean, I can't go toe for toe in terms of the actual heating and everything that he's proposing.

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But the structure, what I was told was that these structures are just didn't go from one foot all the way up until high as you want.

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So he can adjust and make arrangements to have the panels lower on the ground.

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That's all.

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Thank you.

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All right.

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Anyone else like to testify?

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Yes, Chair.

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We have Gamble.

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Hi. Hi, Ms. Gamble. How you doing, sir? Hi, please identify yourself first and last name

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and your address. My name is Petra Gamble. I am from the coordinating RCO. My address is 2305

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Federal Street. And what is the coordinating RCO? Point Breeze. I'm sorry. Point Breeze.

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Point Breeze. Okay. Yep. You're right. Thank you. Please proceed. Chair, if I could, I'm sorry. I'm

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said she spelled her first name as well we do have a new court reporter sure my first name is p as in

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peter i e t as in tom r a his name is gamble please proceed miss gamble yes i just wanted to say we

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also have the same views as miss green but we also want to add that the neighbor's concerns were

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also that it was too tall they're worried about the shadowing and they're also worried about um

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how it's going to be for the taxes. They're worried that this is going to create a precedent

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for people in the future to try to do this on their homes as well. And the neighbors just feel

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like it can be shorter because they're worried about the views. So I just wanted to go on record

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saying that we did send a letter of opposition, as you stated earlier, that the community and

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the RCD are completely against this problem. Thank you. Anyone else? Something new and different?

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Yes, I have a Ms. Jones.

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Ms. Jones, please identify yourself with the record first and last name and provide us with

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your address. Hi, my name is Jessica Jones, J-E-S-S-I-C-A, J-O-N-E-S. I live at 2023 Ellsworth,

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so two doors down from Derek, and I am in support of his project.

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Thank you.

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I am in support of his project, not only for the environmental aspects, but also because of the fact that he has done his due diligence working with a solar agency.

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There were some concerns that he hadn't worked with a proper solar advisor, but we myself actually got an assessment on panels as well.

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So I know the company very well, and they do amazing work and diversity of solar panels, and they do look at each project to see uniquely how what fits best for that roof.

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On top of the fact that this solar project, he can build the canopy, Derek can build the canopy on his roof either way.

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He has the it's just a matter of having 100 percent coverage of his green energy.

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So the canopy would cost more and would still exist within regulation. So concerns that folks have about the sight lines are kind of a moot point because it's still an approved project.

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The question really is about the difference between that two feet to the edge, that two feet closer.

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So I think a lot of things have sort of been lost in this conversation.

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But really, we're talking about the difference of two feet on a canopy project, solar canopy project that he can build either way.

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So, from my perspective as being a member of the block and a community member who supports

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this project, I think it's important for us to bring in more environmental projects.

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I think it'd be great if more businesses did and more companies and homes did more projects like

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this, but that is my opinion as a resident of Point Breeze and of his block. Thank you.

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Thank you for your testimony. What is the name of that company again?

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Solar States is the name of the company chairman.

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Solar States?

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That's correct.

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Thank you.

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Anyone else?

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Yes, we have a Celeste.

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Celeste, you can unmute yourself and speak.

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Celeste, please identify yourself for the record.

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Spell your first and last name and provide us with your address.

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Hi, my name is Celeste, C-E-L-E-S-T-E, Starita, S-T-A-R-I-S-T-E.

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c-e-l-e-s-t-e starita s-t-a-r-i-t-a my address is two zero four four ellsworth street so i live

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on you swear and affirm you swear and affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but

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the truth i do thank you please proceed i live across the street and a couple doors up from

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the property in question. I've looked into this a lot personally, because I absolutely approve

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of the project. I believe that our city should have solar on every corner to light every street

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light in the entire grid. But I really what I wanted to point out here today is that, you know,

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the City of Philadelphia within the last month just released their new Climate Action Playbook,

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strongly in support of solar. In 2017, they initiated Solarize Philly. They chose Solar

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States as the pre-approved installer. So they have been vetted and approved by the City of Philadelphia

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and the the uh city council um there have been a lot of concerns about the aesthetics

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of the canopy the height which again as uh miss jones pointed out is already a

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something that they can do by right um i understand and i'm sure everybody appreciates

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the efforts of Ms. Green as far as putting in time and research, but I'm going to defer to the

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engineers here and say that Solar States has likely come up with the best option for this home.

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And I will say that I can quote from the City of Philadelphia Climate Action Playbook when they say

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that one of the major goals in supporting solar is to pursue actions to address barriers to solar,

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including cost and regulations, while promoting rooftop solar. I believe when they refer to

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regulations, this is exactly what they're talking about, that sometimes the seven feet is not going

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be feasible because of existing structures on the roof like pilot houses. I think that

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part of what it is that they're trying to do is promote solar in new construction as much as

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possible. So I mean I think that today is the perfect opportunity to get started with this

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call to action by uh approving this project thank you for your testimony anyone else something new

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and different mr chair there's an annette rudolph whom i will who's been allowed to uh speak thank

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you good afternoon miss rudolph please identify yourself with the records by your first and last

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name provide us with your address hello my name is annette a-n-n-e-t-t-e randolph r-a-n-d-o-l-p-h

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i'm at 2012 ellsworth street been here for 61 years thank you ma'am ma'am do you swear and

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affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth please proceed thank you please

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proceed the last time that we were on he was supposed you had asked him yana to present some

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documents from his uh company and i didn't hear that we presented ours that's number one number

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two who i excuse me i asked yes mr king there it was another gentleman i think that was on your team

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that had asked him about presenting some paperwork.

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We were supposed to present ours, and he was supposed to present his.

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Mr. Chairman.

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Is that you, Tom?

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Yeah, that was me.

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I don't recall what the question you had asked was.

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Do you recall?

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Yes, he has some data to back up the panels on the roof.

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he's saying that

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he's saying that he's required

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Tom you broke up

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Tom we lost you

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while we're waiting we have any letters uh any uh from the district council person

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while we're waiting

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we have any letters

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any from

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can i also finish yeah i was waiting for mr holliman uh to explain why because i don't

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recall what his question was and that may answer your question yeah because that you know he did

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not um the gentleman did not uh i didn't hear him submit anything that was requested as we have

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request that we have submitted ours also it's not that we don't support what is it do you keep

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saying he are you referring to mr gentleman i'm sorry the gentleman that was just offered it the

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gentleman that whom you're trying to get back on i'm sorry about the name he's our board board

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member mr holliman mr holliman okay i apologize all right no no apologies want to make sure we're

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talking about the same people okay and you said you presented yours what is what do you mean from

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Tiffany Green. She presented the paperwork that was requested.

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Tom back on. Yes, Mr. Chairman. All right, Tom, please. We lost you there.

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Yeah, my concern is two. Are there other samples of rooftop

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solo panels on flat roof in the neighborhood? And I asked for some data

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on the use why he has to set it back seven feet instead of five feet

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before you answer that mr king i just want to the only i'm not aware of solar panels in that

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neighborhood tom there may be i do know there's a flat roof that has a solar panels uh i believe

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it's a warnock street uh right before fitzwater if you drive the 11th and you look east as you

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get to Fitzwater, you can actually see it. It's on a rooftop deck. Again, I'm not sure if there's

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anything in the immediate neighborhood of 20th and Ellsworth. So the other question was, I guess,

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to Mr. Kane. I can address that, Chairman, and I apologize. I think we were a little bit confused

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