Yes, I do.
And what is your position with the city?
I'm a code enforcement inspector.
Okay. And are you, in the course and scope of your duties, do you inspect commercial establishments, bars, restaurants, retail stores, that kind of thing?
Okay. And in the course of that work, did you have the ability to, are you familiar with the property at 1711 Rittenhouse?
Okay. Were you able to make an inspection of that property yourself recently?
okay um and again mr orphanetes uh chair uh can we just stipulate to the authenticity of the
uh documents so i don't necessarily have to share my screen about uh with with respect to the
violation the authenticity of the violation notice that was issued i don't need to go through all
that do i what the original one from back in may of 2022 yeah i mean he he wasn't the one who
issued it was he no but i mean are we going to stipulate to the authenticity of the city's
documents that were all produced oh i i mean that i mean that's that's a standard violation notice i
mean yes i don't have an issue we're fine okay so i'm just gonna so then that's what i mean i mean
i think we just need some limited testimony so mr williams um when did you do your inspection
on saturday uh may 21st uh what uh what time of day did you go out
um we went out uh i believe it was about 10 o'clock in the morning or the evening in in the
evening we uh did it as an inspection for the uh our nuisance property unit and we just did
we conducted the re-inspection that way okay now when you went to the property did you enter uh
on Rittenhouse Street, or did you enter from the alleyway behind the property?
We entered into the alleyway. We stopped at the front door on Rittenhouse, but then we walked
around the backside and met with someone in the alleyway. When you went to the front
entering on Rittenhouse, did you go inside the building at the time, from the front?
Well, not at that time, but when we walked through in an inspection, we actually walked through the back and came up through the front when we were escorted by Mr. Elliott, one of the workers there.
Okay, you were escorted by Mr. Elliott. Did he identify himself, like what his position is there?
um he he didn't identify himself at directly to say he was owner manager or anything like that
but you know he he was the person that they went and got when we you know requested to do the
inspection for this this hearing today okay now at the time you went it was 10 o'clock in the
evening were there uh so you so you went in the front and then you went back out through uh into
the alley which and just for purposes of the board the alley has two the official name of the
alley is i believe latimer um but it sometimes goes by uh the name uh schubert i think is that
right yeah so schubert i don't think is a real name it might have been called that's just some
of the streets around the uh curtis were were given um like names after composers but most of
those were never officially adopted so uh now mr williams when you went so when you got to the alley
it said uh you said we who you were accompanied with another inspector yes uh we do our our night
inspections as a as a team and it was myself and another inspector inspector tober okay now so when
you went to the alley uh were there people outside the out uh standing in the alley yes there were
three people outside standing outside the door when we got there okay and the door to the uh
now when you say there was a door this is the uh this is a door that goes into the back of
the property yes okay was there any kind of signage on the door or anything indicated what
was inside from the from the exterior no signage okay now uh the people that were standing outside
were they just hanging out having a cigarette or were they did it appear that they were waiting
to get inside well the the gentleman who i we didn't get his name who uh actually went and got
mr elliot he was talking with them and i don't know whether they were waiting to get inside but
he was he was checking with them and that's when we spoke to him and asked to get inside for the
inspection okay so uh after a certain point you did you have any discussion with any any of the
people that were outside did you talk to them at all no but we were out there probably about a good
five to ten minutes and they were they were waiting and then i before we came in the gentleman
five to ten minutes and they were they were waiting and then i before we came in
came back out and checked with them so i don't it did appear as though they were waiting to go in
okay um okay so now what you got inside of uh the establishment uh if you could just describe to the
board what what it's like what when you went in we walk in there there's a bar set up and they
were just patrons sitting at various tables and um we just did a quick walk through a quick fire
inspection and then uh we were led upstairs with mr elliott to check the fire alarm and then we
were out okay uh can you estimate for the board about how many people were present at the
establishment when you were there let's say between 20 and 30 between 20 and 30 okay uh did
you have any conversations with any people no none besides mr elliot and again uh i i know this is
i apologize if this is a little bit too broad i can be more specific if you need to would you say
that it was mostly a younger crowd a middle-aged crowd an older crowd i would object but um it was
it was real i don't know what the relevance of that is len i mean come on i mean older people
can hang out at bars too it was mixed to the the the people standing outside were younger
but there were some older people and and as patrons that were sitting down i just want to
know would i be younger would i count as younger no we're both old david oh come on so uh so mr
williams then uh now you said that uh after you did your inspection you went around with mr elliott
uh did you go through the rest of the property or you were just doing the inspection of the uh
the bar restaurant area we were only uh to inspect the the bar restaurant area but
in order to see the fire alarm panel we had to go around okay now did you uh now you said that you
after the inspection you went out and you exited the property through the front through the
Rittenhouse side yes so what's between the front door of the property on Rittenhouse and the bar
restaurant well uh there's we had to go up a set of stairs that was how we we came upstairs and
then went outside um that that front door right there it's just a little vestibule area or you
know waiting area and you're right out the door okay um and did you see anybody uh we'll just
call that the the lobby of the hotel did you see anybody in the lobby of the hotel yes there was
one worker that was uh actually at the front desk okay now in the lobby of the hotel uh is there any
signage or anything uh saying anything about the bar restaurant in the back if you recall okay
Yeah, so you left on the Rittenhouse Square side.
And in terms of the exterior of the property on the Rittenhouse Square side, is there any kind of signage or advertising or anything on the exterior of the property that says anything or makes any reference to the bar or restaurant, if you remember?
I don't recall on the phone.
Okay. So, I don't think I have any further questions at this time, but I'll reserve a right to rebuttal.
Leonard, just out of curiosity, was this a normal inspection or was this an inspection relative to a complaint?
the inspection that took place on saturday was for purposes of this of this hearing because this
is a um it's always kind of surprising to me that the zoning violations uh when they get appealed
come to this board but surprisingly they're very rare so we treat them the same as if this were
the board of l and i review where we like to do a re-inspection so uh mr gerardo gerardo gonzalez
was the assigned inspector but he couldn't be here today because of their mandatory training so
mr williams stepped in uh for him uh and thank you by the way inspector um thank you yeah so that's
that's all i have for this particular witness um but mr orphanese might have some cross
sure thank you good morning mr williams
um was the inspection that you conducted uh this past saturday evening was that the first time
you'd been to the property no okay when was when did you have been there previously
uh i was there the first time that inspector gonzalez was there but we didn't get in and i
believe he he went a little bit later and did that inspection but the first day we were there
we just met with people at the door and we were not allowed access that was that was back in the
That was back in the fall or back last summer?
fall or back last summer
I believe, no, I believe it was last year.
Right.
Like last fall, correct?
No, I don't think it was before.
When I looked at our notes, he didn't have anything.
All right, but this was the first time you had actually gone into the establishment, correct?
Yes, it was correct.
And how long were you there?
How long?
We were there inside the establishment for probably about five minutes.
About five minutes.
And some of that time was spent, some of that five minutes was spent inspecting the fire panel, correct?
No, the fire panel was after.
We stayed in, took some pictures with Mr. Elliott, and then we went upstairs and inspect the fire panel on our way out the door.
Okay, so that was a separate.
that was a separate time that was sort of five minutes was back in the in the lounge area in
the bar restaurant area okay um and do you know was uh you said inspector tolbert was with you
do you know if he had been there before or if that was his first time there the previous the
previous person that had been there was my previous partner was inspector gonzalez and
that's why we were there at the property before and do you remember did inspector gonzalez get in
uh another time after you were that you two were there together i do not recall if he got
all right and and again your your inspection that you conducted this past saturday evening
at about 10 o'clock if i heard you correctly um the uh that was just for this hearing that
wasn't based upon any complaint yes okay and are you aware of any complaints that have been filed
against this establishment yes that's that's the reason why we were there the first time
was because of a complaint okay and do you know when that complaint was filed
i i believe last may last may okay do you know whether that complaint was filed before they
opened or after they opened i am not aware not not sure
would it you so on the first day that they opened you were not there was an lni inspector that
showed up you were not that inspector at that time correct no okay all right um
and do you know what the nature of the complaint was that was filed
what the actual complaint was yes that they were uh that there was a bar operating in the in the
in the basement of a uh in this uh bed and breakfast hotel
and it's not really in the basement is it you walk straight in pretty much from the from the
either from the rear door from the lobby correct there might be a couple steps up or down yes
there's a few yes okay right i mean it's you're not going like down into your cellar you know
it's it's not a long flight of stairs to get down to where this is located correct and you didn't
And you didn't see any violations of the Philadelphia Code, building codes, electrical codes, plumbing codes, anything while you were in there doing your inspection, correct?
Not for that inspection, but we were in a very limited area.
We didn't do a full inspection of the building.
But in the area that you were, which was the bar, the lobby, the bar restaurant, the lobby, and then where the panel was, you didn't see any other violations, correct?
Correct.
And back to that, the complaint, you said that there was a complaint, there was a bar
and a bed and breakfast.
Is that in and of itself?
Why is that a complaint that warranted an inspection?
There's plenty of hotels and bed and hotels that have restaurants and bars.
I'm trying to object.
He's asking for a legal conclusion.
That's not a legal conclusion.
Why? I mean, it's it's I mean, if somebody complained, said there was a bar restaurant in Lowe's.
Leonard, I think I'm going to let that question stand. OK, thank you.
So somebody said there was a bar restaurant in Lowe's. Would you go and inspect the bar restaurant in Lowe's?
Well, I mean, we have to inspect it because it's a complaint and we're going to issue the complaint.
And then we're going to check it according to the zoning for what they apply for at Lowe's.
and if there's a bar and restaurant at Lowe's where there shouldn't be a bar and restaurant
then that's where we have no initiative so you you went out first time sometime last year you
didn't get inside to to validate whether or not there was a bar restaurant inside this hotel
correct I myself did not yeah you did not and but you did get in
Correct? I myself did not. Yeah, you did not. And but you did get in this past Saturday and you did see that there's a bar restaurant inside, correct? Yes, correct.
Okay. And do you know, in and of itself, is there an issue having a bar restaurant inside this hotel?
Not per se, in and of itself, but I do know that there was something with their operating outside of the zoning that they were approved for, which is why the case was written.
So you did the re-inspection. You knew that this case was about an appeal of that violation, correct?
Correct.
And do you know what that violation was?
That they were operating outside of their zoning.
That's what the violation was.
Do you know what their zoning is?
When I had checked before, it was a hotel, restaurant, and that was as far as I can recall right now.
okay so you're saying you saw you saw approvals for permits for a bar or for a hotel and a
restaurant um so what does a does the philadelphia code make any distinction between a restaurant
that serves liquor and a restaurant that doesn't serve liquor
no i've do that i'm not sure if it does okay so so you you walk in and you see
um a bar restaurant a restaurant bar and you say that and and this was located inside a hotel
correct yes it's connected to a hotel lobby it's in there's rooms upstairs correct yes there's
rooms directly do you know that there are rooms directly over top of the the bar restaurant
okay so when you go in and you say you saw you say you saw approval for a hotel and a restaurant
you go inside and you see a hotel and a restaurant does that make it sound like there's a violation
there objection oh he's an inspector that's his job right he's already testified about what he
saw and what the violation was well well no now because now he's sounding like it's approved for
what he went in and saw and i'm just trying to figure out again that's that that goes to the
ultimate issue which is a legal question so you're asking for legal conclusion well i think i think
mr way i think mr williams can answer for what he knows and and if he doesn't know he doesn't know
but i mean i think he can answer for what he knows well apparently from what you know uh we
we read the zoning, what we had concluded was that the whole thing was supposed to be under
the patrons of the hotel and not open to the public. And so that was the question that I was
sent to see whether it was open to the public and what actually was inside. So that was all I was
there to verify on Saturday. Okay, I got you. So you were told, so your understanding is that
this establishment is in violation if it serves anybody other than the guests of the hotel
correct that was my understanding okay and and how did you come to that understanding
does somebody tell you that or did you well yes that was that was in conference with my
my superiors that's what was told to me that this is you know what was the issue that was
being appealed and just to verify whether they were open to the public or not okay
and can you share with me who those conversations were on my manager yeah and what's his or her