No, I think it's substantially similar, but I don't know that.
Now, did anybody from the hotel speak with you about what was when?
Okay, so let's back up a little bit.
But so at the beginning of COVID, prior to the current bar restaurant at this location, was there a, if you recall, if you know, was there a bar restaurant at this location?
There was not.
Okay. And so between the time that there wasn't something there and the time this bar restaurant opened, would you say that if that opened somewhere during the COVID period, we'll just say 2020 to 2022?
Okay. Did anybody from the hotel ever have any conversations with you about what was going to go into that space where the bar restaurant is?
not me but my husband um did you have conversations with your husband about that
yes okay do you recall who spoke with your husband yes mr chopra that was okay uh and you
were these conversations between mr chopra and your husband uh did those occur prior to their
opening yes okay uh at the time did they uh were you made aware of whether or not the bar restaurant
was going to be open to the public we were advised there was going to be no bar objections
objection i think the conversations was were with her husband not with her right
i'm here okay no but she's testifying so he can testify he'll be up next that's fine oh okay
that's fine and just just for the record she did she wasn't privy to those conversations so it
wasn't well again i'm not i'm not asking for hearsay i'm asking what her husband told her
so he can he can he can say what he heard from her from from okay that's fine for the record
yep what's your husband's name michael moen m-o-u-g-h-a-n okay um so
So, now with respect to the bar itself, have you been in there yourself?
I have not.
Have you ever been inside the hotel?
And how do you get into the hotel?
From Rittenhouse Square Street.
Have you been inside the hotel since the bar restaurant has opened in the back?
um now the bar and when we talk about the bar you did you hear the previous testimony with
inspector williams i did okay so you heard him describe that he went he went he and his uh
colleague went to the alley uh and then from that alley there were people standing outside
uh you know either waiting to get in or they were just hanging out outside uh is that your
understanding of the how most people would enter into that bar objection objection that is correct
that is correct wait david say what your objection is please the objection is mr reuter used the
phrase most so without qualifying what most is how how does she possibly know how many people
are coming in so so okay all right oh so mr reuter why don't you just sure uh do you describe it
another way sure have you have miss cavallari have you yourself uh witnessed people entering
the bar from that alley entrance i have okay on it every day and when you say every day starting
about what time probably about 10 o'clock about 10 in the evening okay and when you look so is
this something that you can see from the window of your house i can see it from my third floor
bedroom window. Okay. Okay. It's right below me. Okay. And every night where there is that the
bar is open, activity starts about 10 o'clock. Okay. We hear people going in. We hear people
loitering speaking okay as people are leaving they tend to be loitering there intoxicated
and the voices are loud enough to wake me and my husband okay and when we have our children staying
over okay um it's extremely disruptive
Okay. It's extremely disruptive.
active.
Okay. Now, as far as the bar restaurant, does it have a name, if you recall?
Oh, God. The Franklin, we see it advertised frequently.
Go ahead.
Sorry, if I said it was called Franklin Mortgage, does that ring a bell?
Okay. Now, you say you've seen advertisements for the bar. Where have you seen those advertisements?
The latest one was in the Inquirer, I would say about three months ago, where they were talking about not anything that is a hotel accommodation.
They were talking about all the trend of the speakeasies and the new hot bars in town.
And the Franklin Mortgage Company was mentioned as one of those.
And again, when you've seen advertisements for the bar, other than mentioning its location, would it be fair to say that those advertisements don't reference the hotel?
They do not.
Okay. I have no further questions.
sir okay good morning yes still morning good morning good morning miss cavallari
good morning mr orphanetes pleasure to speak with you um so uh would it be fair to say you've lived
you said 20 to 25 years i believe i checked the deed you lived next door since 1998 correct
Correct. That's about right for your deed. All right. And who has lived there with you
since over the time period from 98 to the present? My husband and intermittently our
stepchildren and grandchildren. Okay. Gotcha. And when you bought the property in 98,
I know you've used the term bed and breakfast, but it was, well, we can call it lodging.
By today's standards, we call it, or definition, we call it visitor accommodation.
But when you bought it in 1998, it was set up for visitor accommodations and being utilized
as such right next door to you, correct?
No, I'm not agreeing to that.
I'm not agreeing to the term visitor accommodation.
Okay. When I bought it, it might've been vacant at that point in time. It's gone through a number
of transfers of owners. Okay. And it was represented as a bed and breakfast. Okay. All right.
But you've never, I mean, I know Mr. Reuter was asking you about zoning classification.
You're an attorney, correct? That is correct.
Okay. Have you ever reviewed the zoning archives or the zoning file that's available online to the public for the property?
No, I have not.
All right.
So let's just use your terminology.
So it was a bed and breakfast.
So as a breakfast, it served food, correct?
That is correct.
Okay. And did you and or your husband ever eat there?
uh we were invited there and what we had was a continental pastries but there was no other food
being served there okay on the time that you were there i mean you know i understand but
when you say you were invited there what do you mean were you invited there by guests of the hotel
by the owner of the hotel by the then owner of the hotel okay and was it just that one time
uh we've had relatives that have stayed there okay did you go then and go meet them no the
relatives no i did not okay the relatives stayed there and you know the accommodation was what it
said bed and breakfast okay and they were served continental breakfast no alcohol no other food
Okay. Do you know whether the zoning code distinguishes between eating establishments that serve alcohol or those that don't serve alcohol?
I'm not a zoning attorney, and I had no need to investigate that.
Okay. So, again, when you said you had family staying there, and I asked the question, and I wasn't sure what the answer was.
When you had family staying there, did you go and have food there?
You know, I answered the question, Mr. Orfanides.
You mentioned it.
I did not go there with family.
I was there once.
I was there once.
One time.
One time.
So on the one time that you went there, they weren't making eggs.
So on the one time that you went.
They weren't making anything heated, you're saying, correct?
That's correct.
The one time.
Do you remember what year that was that you were there?
How long ago?
I don't.
I don't.
It was when it was, I don't remember, but it was with the original owner.
I believe he was an Israeli gentleman.
He was.
It was actually a client of mine.
And you understand. Are you aware that Mr. Patterson, who's with you, actually was an attorney who put in zoning zoning permit applications for a hotel at this location?
I'm going to object to the relevance of that.
I'm bringing up about a hotel because she wants to emphasize bed and breakfast.
So and I'm not sure I don't understand the relevance to her testimony, and I don't really see how that, again, doesn't get into the fundamental legal question here.
So, so, Mr. Orphanides, I don't I don't think who are who the client was, the lawyer that did it at the time is is right.
I understand. I'll move on.
so you you stated to mr reuter when he asked the questions as far as you know
no plans were submitted for a restaurant or a restaurant bar to the city of philadelphia correct
i that's correct okay and you know that because your husband told you
no um i know that because of the other matter that i'm dealing with with
Mr. Chopra. Okay. And that's a civil action regarding this bar restaurant, correct?
That is correct. Okay. And so would it surprise you if I told you that building permit applications
were put in and plans were put in and permits were issued and those plans were approved by
the department of licenses inspections that clearly show a bar restaurant at this?
mr i'm not that's a different subject matter and i'm i'm not gonna i'm not gonna answer that
question again that goes to the civil case no no no it doesn't it actually goes to what she's
what she stated on direct examination from mr reuter okay so again the city is not disputing
that having a bar restaurant at the location in and of itself is a violation that's not what the
violation is the violation is for it not being accessory i'm just going off the i wrote down
your question i mean i understand but you asked the question so i'm now going and asking another
question based upon that you opened the door she said she's never even been inside the bar
restaurant that i just not that's not i'm not there yet i'm not there yet you asked her the
question and she said you asked her questions you knew if some plans were submitted and she said no
That's correct. That's my answer.
And I would ask you, would you be surprised if you were to learn that both plans have been submitted and permits have been issued by L&I for a bar restaurant and the health department?
Would that be surprising to you?
Well, nothing really would surprise me at this point in time.
However, the question is the veracity of what was submitted.
Okay. All right.
But you've not, you've not in, so now you're questioning veracity, but you've never inspected them.
In fact, you didn't even know they existed, correct?
I did not inspect them.
And you didn't know they existed.
And you have not had any conversations with one of the principals of the ownership of the LLC that owns the property or the hotel, Mr. Chopra, Romney Chopra, correct?
Not concerning when the bar was opened.
before it was open that's correct i did not okay and you've not been inside the bar restaurant
that is correct you've not been inside the hotel since my client opened it reopened that is correct
that is correct and do you come in and out of your your house has a does it have a entrance way
on Rittenhouse Square? It does. Okay. And does it also have an entrance way back on Latimer or
Schubert's Alley? It does. Okay. And do you come in and out of the door on Rittenhouse Square?
All the time. Okay. Were you, you were aware, were you aware prior to the bar restaurant opening
that there was going to be a bar restaurant inside the hotel no okay so the the and i have
in my exhibits um which i could show you but let's just say so you never saw the postings
So you never saw the postings for the liquor license, correct, on the Rittenhouse Square front of my client's property, correct?
for the liquor license correct on the on the written house
At some time, that did come to my attention, okay?
I don't recall when.
And when it came to my attention, I consulted with counsel about it.
Based upon what my husband threw, and then I was advised that there would be no bar there.
But but you did. And you saw the placard, though, right?
Oh, there was orange placard. OK, I can't say that I didn't.
OK, but I want to clarify. OK, most of the times the placard was building.
OK, and then all of a sudden, I believe it was sometime in the summer.
we i see that the liquor license okay and that is when i reached out to mr patterson
and you hadn't reached out to him before that point correct my recollection okay understood
thanks ron okay so yeah mr orphanage you have five minutes understood um and i'm not saying
you have to finish but if you have to bring her back we'll bring her back yeah i understand i
I understand. So did you, so you saw the placards, the posting for the liquor license. Did you
participate in the, in the community process or any part of the process for the liquor license?
There was no community process that I'm aware of. We never received any notice that this was going
up before the Rittenhouse Square Association. And we were quite taken back that there was never an
issue with the rittenhouse square association all right and i'm sorry you say you've never been
in the bar restaurant and you you have been in the hotel or you have not been in the hotel
that was asked and answered okay i believe i thought it was two different answers i thought
you'd said yes with mr reuter no with me but um which one was connect i mean without having
somebody read it back when do you remember again she has been in the bed and breakfast side she's
not been in the current bar restaurant right but she's been in the hotel since my client
rehabilitated it and opened it correct i don't believe so no okay no okay all right all right
so so you've never been inside to know whether or not those people that are there inside the
bar restaurant are guests of the hotel are visiting guests of the hotel
wait wait let me i'm i'm permitted to answer my ask my question do you let me i'm going to
rephrase it do you know on these evenings that you said that the bar is open the bar restaurant
is open do you know how many of the people inside the bar restaurant are guests of the hotel