explain the hardship that requires us to have seven units i think the two one bedroom units
having the spiral stair spiral stairs are very difficult to navigate it makes it hard for people
who might have mobility challenges it makes it hard for people who are trying to move in
furniture, and they are the middle unit. So that's also the unit that's going to get the
least amount of light. And so on a plan where you had space to sort of let the plan breathe a little
bit, I just want to understand the justification for needing to add the seven units to pack them
in like that. So, I mean, I can't speak to the financials as well as the owner, Ken. I think we
were putting together something that was similar to the project we had done across the street that
the community was supportive of just to add enough units to keep the price point down as you well
know Tioga is a more difficult neighborhood financially for brand new construction so
to keep some of the price points where the community had wanted them so that people from
the neighborhood could live in them it's just what my understanding from discussions with the owner
what the economics would allow for brand new new construction.
We had done one like a year ago directly across the street.
And we have a couple other projects.
We had tried to do four units and three units that have been sitting vacant
and have never gotten built in that same neighborhood
and even on a little bit closer up block on Venango.
So just to be able to make sure, one, the price points stay where they need.
And then also that the building can include like the front facade,
the ornamental details and things of that nature.
The community wasn't as concerned with some of the smaller units because when you have like some one bedrooms or even the smaller two bedrooms, you're not typically having three, four people in there.
So we tried to include some of the larger units where we could to include families just because of concern over transient nature.
But it just was what had worked before that actually got built was also consideration, given the cost of some of this stuff, in addition to making sure, like I said, that the facades are nice, the materials are nice, and we can accommodate price points that are not unrealistic for this area.
So, and we changed the layout a bit. We actually had had, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, Brenna, we had had more one bedroom units when we first went through the process. But the ask was to add some, you know, additional space as far as like bedroom counts. So we didn't initially go in with as many two bedrooms as we have now.
Yeah, and to be clear, my issue wasn't the size of the units. It was specifically unit two, and it's both layout and with the spiral staircase.
I think in terms of the design of unit two, this is a pretty preliminary plan.
We do have 700 square feet there.
I think there is an option that we could add in more of the switchbacks stair that you see in the rear unit and still have a functioning unit here.
So that is definitely something that we could incorporate in the permit drawings.
Okay. Any other questions on the board? Yes. How many units are one bedroom, two bedroom?
What are we talking here? Yeah, sorry. It is hard to see. I apologize.
If you make it too much larger, then you can't see the whole thing on.
Yeah. So I think unit one, it looks like it's two bedroom, one and a half bath.
um unit two one bedroom one and a half bath unit three that's five
unit three one bedroom one and a half bath unit four one bed one bath unit five one bed one bath
unit six one bed one bath and unit seven one bed one bath so we have a few one two bedroom
one and a half bath a couple one bedroom one and a half baths and then one bedroom one
One and a half bath, a couple, one bedroom, one and a half baths, and then one bedroom, one bath.
Did I get that right, Brenna?
All right.
Thank you.
And again, I'm having the problem with the whole idea of seven units.
There was a permit issued in 2021 for four units here.
so yeah and as mentioned that had sat not being built for now four years um and like i said there's
another project that we just did 2323 north 16th street that was for seven units which got built
and i believe there was one more um you can find it in my notes um that was eight units that got
built so i think originally when we went through and thought and then 1820 venango got approved
for four units that's been sitting for four years not being able to be built so um we went back
through just given some of the approvals that we got could not get financed or build at all
so then they just sit vacant um which i don't think anybody wants so i i hear you and again
like in there originally we would go through with smaller amounts but then if you get a zoning
permanent, nothing can be built. Is that valuable in a neighborhood like this and in a city that
needs, you know, housing? So the other consideration is like the less units you put, not necessarily
on this lot, but in particular, the cost goes up because it's a supply and demand issue, right? So
sort of balancing that out. And then again, keeping the price points reasonable. So
just some of these economic considerations and some of the more fringe neighborhoods just make
the numbers difficult to be financed and then built with a quality material, especially with
some of the ornamental details that don't lower the cost. But to Michael Johns's point, they just
are more respectful of the neighborhood and they provide a product that looks like you're not
putting something out of character in a neighborhood that's been standing for 40, 50, 60
years with these nice architectural details. So it's a balance. The other one, just so you have
it is um 3320 north 16th street it's eight dwelling units that was uh issued via variants
by this board that's zp20 23004396 um so those are the more the recent ones in the last number
of years last five years that have been approved and actually built and then there was a few that
again to your point were issued but never built no no building permits ever pulled
that's economic hardship not unnecessary hardship well i think the economics is a factor
um in the statute it's not you don't have to show that that it's you can't build anything but
we also have to consider especially when you have we went through for four got it approved and then
it can't get built um i think it does matter the economics um because it has to live in a real
market so and again we had discussed this at depth with the community who had rather seen
something get built than have vacancies especially mid-block vacancies where you have trash build up
and dumping and other activities that go on next to residential units and spaces so um it is a
balance and i think if we could have gone in with a single family home or again the four units and
built it, I don't think we would be here. As you know, this is a six to nine month process that's
not inexpensive or not time consuming to go through. And of the concerns that the community
had, it wasn't around the unit count given they wanted the price points to be at a certain place.
So it's a dance, right? And also because there were, again, two other projects that have gotten
approved and built at both seven and eight units. It wasn't like we were proposing nine or 12. It
It was in line with that.
So while the economic hardship isn't the only consideration, obviously, it does take into consideration because all these projects live in a real market that has to be based off of the ability to build the projects as well.
So we're trying to just do our best with this one to to provide something that gets built and that is beautiful and that keeps the price point as far as the units rent down to something reasonable that can that isn't setting the market on this block.
OK, thank you. Yeah.
Questions from our attorney, Hillary Emerson?
Not at this time, Mr.
The virtual audience for the current audience here and Mr. Richardson is on his way up here.
good morning mr richardson just please state your name it's spelled for the stenographer
good morning mr mr richard and just please state your name
certainly charles richardson r-i-c-h-a-r-d-s-o-n office of councilwoman cindy bass room 508 city
hall do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do please
proceed sir the councilwoman has no objection to granting the variances thank you very much
for coming in here we appreciate it is there anyone else in the audience or the virtual audience
i do not see any hands raised mr chair planning commission
good morning chair and members of the board michael gall with the philadelphia city planning
commission m-i-c-h-a-e-l-g-a-l-l do you swear affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing
but the truth i so affirm you proceed the comprehensive plan recommends no change to
the existing rsa3 residential single family attached zoning at this location the proposed
use is not out of character with the context but does represent a continued recent trend of
dimensional and density overuse of the properties along this block in their already dense context
and the units being created are of a smaller size than is needed therefore the city planning
Commission recommends the board grant the requested variances for multifamily household
living use, maximum occupied lot area, minimum rear yard depth, minimum side yard width, and
minimum parking spaces, but with a recommended proviso at a maximum of four units.
So if I could just respond, Chairman, I think that we, again, have already gotten four units
approved and it's now sat for four years. If the board would be comfortable, we'd be okay with a
minimum of six units, given the concern over that smaller unit. But I don't want to go back to four
units, which we already have gotten and haven't been able to build. Okay, so what I want to do
with this is I'm going to hold this to when we come back October 1. I'll take it to executive
session so everybody can really take a look at this and see what we think about it. And we will
we'll vote October 1st at 9 30 a.m would it be okay for us to provide to you ahead of time um
for the if we drop a unit what those floor plans would look like for that you can
consider that in your review just because you've only seen the seven Hillary
if the board would like we can close the record except for receipt of updated
plans the record and you provide this office with that and I'll make sure the
board gets a look at the plants okay thank you very much thank you very much yep or we're gonna
go to number seven mi 2024 007 015 53 36 wayne avenue charlena and sean aldoff are the owner
applicants. There's support from the 12th Ward
Democratic, request a 10-year
variance, and a letter of non-opposition from Solo Germantown
with a 10-year temporary variance.
There's also seven letters of support from parents and service
providers.
Good morning. Good morning. Could you please state your name
it's spelled for the stenographer yes charlena adolph c-h-a-r-l-e-n-a-a-d-o-l-p-h
do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth
i do so this application is for use as a group child care as part of an existing single family
dwelling in an existing semi-detached structure whereas the proposed use group child care is
prohibited in the RTA-1
residential zoning district.
Tenetik Rand
has just a few questions for you.
Yes. Good morning.
Good morning.
Have you submitted your documents five days
in advance of this hearing?
Yes, I did.
Okay, and this is the per se, so I asked her
about the, did you weigh
the reading of the refusal and
stipulate to its accuracy?
Yes. Okay, thank you.
You can proceed.
Okay. Yes, I've been doing the child care in my home for 10 years, eight years as group already.
I just have to go before the board every three years.
So I was originally asking for a permanent variance, but during the RCO meeting, we agreed on a 10-year variance so that I wouldn't have to come before the board every three years.
I've been doing this.
I'm a star for a facility. I utilize my first floor. I reside in our home. We've been residents of this community for 50 of my husband has for over 50 years.
I have for the last 20 years. We inherit the home. We don't plan on moving.
I have for the last 20 years we inherit the home.
We don't plan on moving from this home, but I do.
Why don't you, why don't you do this?
Why don't you present your plans and we can, as you're talking,
we can look at what you have. Okay.
Okay. So I've never done the presenting of the plans before,
but the plan, so do I have to put it up on the screen?
Yeah, you should be come up on the screen.
Okay. Let me see if I can share.
Um, I've never done this before. I just thought once I submit the documents that it's there, so I don't have it actually put up anywhere. This would be my first time doing it this way. Um, let me see if I can get everything up real quickly. Um, I apologize.
You see, you should probably see your documents, open them and then push the green button at the bottom says share.
okay uh let me go open this right i'm sorry i lost you guys um
yeah i'm sorry i this i'm very new to this
why don't why don't we do this we we have several other cases okay i have two other cases that are
people presenting okay go on to them and then you can try to get your stuff together
and then we'll come back to you, okay?
But I should be back to you within a half hour.
Okay, thank you.
Sure, so number eight.
MI 2024-007-046-1513 Conlin Street.
Carlette Johnson is the co-owner, it's a pro se.
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I do not see that person in the audience.
Okay. Is this the first listing, Hillary, for this?
i would have to check mr chair um there was also someone who uploaded the exhibit
um named jermaine oats i don't see them here either um
i guess i guess we'll need to i would since we did receive the exhibits i would just continue
this must be heard okay all right so um we're going to continue this and it's the second listing
okay all right so i'm going to thank you yolanda okay continue this mi 2024 007 046 13 1513 conlin
street this case is continued to 3426 at 9 30 a.m we're going to move on to
Number 13, MI-2025-001-582, 5844 Whitby Avenue.
Samaya Carter is the owner.
This is a group child care.
There's a letter of non-opposition and deferral from the third ward executive RCO.
They have no opposition to the variance
and will leave the decision to the zoning board.
We're coming back in as a panelist shortly, Mr. Chair.
Hi, could you please state your name and spell for the stenographer?
Sure. My name is Samaya Carter, spelled S-U-M-A-Y-Y-A-H, last name Carter, C-A-R-T-E-R.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
This application is for proposed use group child care in an existing structure, whereas the proposed use group child care is prohibited in the RSA 3 zoning district,
whereas no more than one principal use is allowed in the RSAD, RSA, A, and RTA zoning district
except as otherwise expressed in the zoning code.
Tanetta Graham, one of our board members, has a few questions for you, okay?
Good morning.
Have you mailed your documents five days in advance of this hearing?
I have.