1719 COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE RE: FY '02 CITY OPERATING BUDGET - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Friday, 2/23/01 10:15 a.m. - - - BILL 010005 - Re FY '02 City Operating Budget PRESENT: COUNCIL PRESIDENT ANNA C. VERNA, Chair COUNCILWOMAN JANNIE BLACKWELL, Vice Chair COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN COUNCILMAN DARRELL L. CLARKE COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILMAN FRANK J. DICICCO COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN MICHAEL A. NUTTER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 1720 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET I N D E X First Judicial District Honorable Frederica Massiah-Jackson, President Judge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Joseph DiPrimio, Esq., Court Administrator. . Kevin Cross, Deputy Court Administrator for Financial Services. . . . . . . . . . . . . Carl Primavera, Esq., Chancellor. . . . . . . Philadelphia Bar Association Stanley Krakower, Chair, Criminal Law Section 9 Philadelphia Bar Association Robert Dubow, Director of Finance . . . . . . J. Green, Sheriff of County and City of Phila. Ronald R. Donatucci, Register of Wills. . . . Law Department Kenneth Trujillo, City Solicitor. . . . . . . Stella Tsai, Chair, Administrative Law. . . . Bill Grab, Office of Labor Relations District Attorney's Office Lynne Abraham, DA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Leonard Deutchman, Economic and Cyber Crimes 1721 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET OPERATING BUDGET LEONARD DEUTCHMAN, Asst. District Attorney .. 1923 LYNNE ABRAHAM, District Attorney ............ 1926 GEORGE MOSEY, Deputy, DA'S Office ........... 1942 ELLEN GREENLEE, Chief Defender .............. 1956 BYRON CARTER, Director, Defender Assoc. ..... 1971 MARGARET TARTAGLIONE, City Commissioner ..... 1983 ROBERT DUBOW, Budget Director ............... 1987 BOB LEE, Administrator, Voters Registration . 1987 JACK LEARY, General Manager, SEPTA .......... 2003 RICHARD EVANS, Chief, SEPTA Transit Police .. 2013 BERNARD COHEN, Transit Operations ........... 2027 FRANCES JONES, Govermental Affairs .......... 2030 PAT NAWALKOWSKY, Infrastructure ............. 2051 JETTIE NEWKIRK .............................. 2075 FAY MOORE, Treasurer, SEPTA ................. 2077 RONDA COHEN, Community College .............. 2080 STEPHEN CURTIS, President, Community College. 2082 1722 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET P R O C E E D I N G S
Good morning, everyone. This is the continued public hearing of the Committee of the Whole regarding Bill No. 7 010005. The first department to testify this morning will be the First Judicial District. (Witness comes forward.)
Thank you so much for your patience. I appreciate it. Please identify yourself for the record for the record and proceed with your testimony. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Good morning, Madam President. I am here today, Frederica Massiah-Jackson, President Judge, Court of Common Pleas and Chair of our Administrative Governing Board. And I want to thank you for the opportunity to present our budget on behalf of the First Judicial District to you and to the entire City Council. I would like to introduce our court administrator -- reintroduce, actually, our Court Administrator, Joe DiPrimio; and our Deputy for 1723 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Financial Services in Fiscal Matters, Kevin Cross. Mr. DiPrimio is going to make the presentation on behalf of the First Judicial District, but I am here and join with him and welcome his comments.
Good morning, Council President Verna. May it please Council, we are here today to present testimony on behalf of the First Judicial District's Fiscal '02 Operating Budget. You have already met our new president Judge Frederica Massiah-Jackson, who was elected by her peers in December of 2000, and she has also been appointed the by the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania to serve as of the president of -- or as the Chair of the Administrative Governing Board, which is the management body for all Philadelphia courts. I might also point out to Council that the Administrative Governing Board has now included the appointment of the Honorable Esther R. Sylvester as Administrative Judge of Family 1724 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Division; the Honorable Joseph D. O'Keefe, as Administrative Judge of the Orphans Division; and also the Honorable Fortunato N. Perri as the Administrative Judge of the Traffic Court. The FY '02 General Fund Budget for the First Judicial District and Grants Revenue Budget maintains a continuation of the zero-growth, zero-reduction agreement entered into by the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania and City of Philadelphia. The First Judicial District is not seeking any additional funds for counsel for court operations. As our testimony depicts in Table 1, the total Operating Budget from the General Fund which we are seeking is $110,268,396. That is in addition to the Grants Revenue Funds, which have a zero other impact on the Operating Budget. Those Grant Revenue Funds total $35,487,410 and are set forth in detail in Table of our testimony. percent from our Class 100 Operating Budget, and it was in the spirit of cooperating with the Administration that we sought the concurrence of 1725 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania and of our Administrative Governing Board to support this one-time reduction; and in fact, we have. However, it does seek an additional $3 million in Class 200, not for the First Judicial District's Operating Budget, but to increase the amount of funds available to pay appointed counsel on behalf of dependent children, families at risk, and those persons charged with a crime who are indigent but cannot be represented by the Defender Association of Philadelphia due to a conflict. The City's administration has made a priority of taking back the neighborhoods, reducing quality-of-life crimes, and I might point to Council the fact that they are being successful. In fact, we have seen an increase in Municipal Court cases alone of 40 percent from 1996 to the year 2000. Just from 1997 to the year 2000, the number of misdemeanors entering the Municipal Court have increased by 83 percent, while on the Family Court side, the number of dependent children have steadily increased. On average, we receive 37 to 3800 new dependency 1726 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET petition filings per year. This represents a significantly large number of cases coming into the court where appointed counsel are needed. We have also noted a serious growth in the number of appointments that are made on behalf of dependent children to the extent that 166 percent growth in the number of court appointments have been experienced by our court. We have determined that an additional $3 million would assist the First Judicial District in cooperation with the Philadelphia Bar Association, which provides the quality and high-level caliber representation on behalf of our children and families at risk, and also our indigent defendants because of the projections based on the rate of crime. Our statistics show an average steady rate of percent per year for all case types, from 1996 through to the year 2000. The objective of providing appropriate fee increase to see lawyers who deliver quality legal services and representing stressed families and children at risk is clearly justified.
In fact, the Legal Intelligencer and the Philadelphia 1727 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Inquirer provided a report by the Public Interest Bar and Advocacy Committee on dependent court resources, and I commend that to Council, but essentially, one of the cornerstones of that report is the fact that the Commission determined that there must be fee increases in order to ensure that dependent children and families at risk receive quality representation. This past December, the First Judicial District reached an agreement with the City's Budget Bureau which allows the District to carry forward into future fiscal years any unspent funds from the line item for counsel fee payments, which would be earmarked exclusively for counsel fee payable, accounts payable, or other increases. The additional $3 million for this line item, if approved by Council, will permit the creation of a long-term funding apparatus whereby the court, with the cooperation of the Bar, will be able to meet the City's obligation to provide legal representation to dependent children, families at risk, and indigent persons accused of crimes. This strategy also provides the ability 1728 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET to establish a reasonable modest fee increase for all case types commencing in Fiscal Year 2002. In fact, we have met with the Chancellor, Carl Primavera, of the Philadelphia Bar Association and with the section leaders from the Criminal family Law Section and from the Family Law section and have begun constructive dialogues geared towards establishing appropriate fee increases for dependency and criminal appointments. Success with this strategy is contingent on Council's approval of the $3 million increase. Accordingly, on behalf of the First Judicial District, the Pennsylvania Judiciary, the Administrative Governing Board, the employees and citizens of Philadelphia for whom with we appreciatively work, we respectfully seek City Council's consideration and approval of our budget request with the supplemental fundings for the counsel fee appropriation.
Thank you. What was the agreement that the First Judicial District reached with the Administration concerning counsel fees this past December?
This past December, we 1729 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET met with Rob Dubow of the Budget Bureau and with Appropriations Chair Krajewski, and we went to them with the request that we be allowed to roll forward into future fiscal years any unexpensed counsel fee payments -- or revenue that is available in the line item for counsel fees. What we determined is that in the last two fiscal years, we had outstanding bills, and this is a gap between the number of appointments made and the number of fee petitions received. And on average, this gap is anywhere from to 13 30 percent. So what we've learned that as the gap 14 grows, these accounts payable continue to exist. 15 And, ultimately, if the debt were called today, 16 for example, there would not be sufficient funds 17 in that line item to cover the debt. 18 So with the support of the City's 19 administration, we look forward to the ability to 20 roll forward any unexpensed appropriation that would be in that line item. That then gives us the ability to pay future accounts payable and also gives the ability to create a pool or a reserve whereby we're able to go back and perhaps make adjustments for fee increases in future 1730 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET years.
Now, do I understand you to say that the Administration agreed to that?
That's correct. In fact, yesterday, at a meeting with Mr. Dubow, it's my understanding that we re-ratified that.
Mr. Dubow, do you mind coming forward, please. (Rob Dubow comes forward.)
Mr. DiPrimio while he's coming forward, if the First Judicial District is running surpluses that, by your own testimony, totaled over $28 million between FY '93 and FY 2000, why do you need additional funding for court-appointed attorneys?
Thank you, Council President. With respect to the First Judicial District zero-growth, zero-reduction budget, which was negotiated by the City and the Supreme Court, the District has steadfastly abided by this agreement. As noted in the spending plan of the City for PICA for 2000 to 2006, the budget 1731 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET surpluses are set to provide a appropriation for the First Judicial District, which will enable us to pay for all technology, capital improvements, education, and things of that nature. In fact, Madam President, the First Judicial District has not violated that. We have not sought one penny of additional funding for any of our technology. Perhaps your experience with other City agencies has been different, but we have not come to Council for anything. The surpluses that we do have been managed in a correct way and in a responsible way, and I can tell you that we are now at the cross roads of our planning, where we're about to begin certain expenditures. For example, we are putting in a new telephone system in City Hall in the child support operations, which will cost the First Judicial District $1.5 million, without any additional contribution from the City. In addition, we're going to start renovations of our 6th floor space. That gives us the ability to close the Wanamaker Building, which the City is paying about $28-a-square-foot rental; it's almost $2 million a year. But by closing that space and 1732 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET moving court operations back into City Hall, the savings would then go back to the City of Philadelphia, and not to the District.
So it goes back to the General Fund and not the court system?
It goes back to the General Fund, right. What we have done in the past, we've closed down operations in One East Penn Square, for example, and all of the funds that were saved in that framework reverted back to the General Fund. But in order for District to be able to make that move, and which we're in the process of doing, we have to do renovations to the 6th floor. Through negotiations with Joseph Martz and our court, we were able to realign spaces whereby the City received FJD space on the 7th floor, which is now dedicated for communications, City communications, and the FJD would be getting, or is getting, the 6th-floor east corridor of City Hall, but that space must renovated and put into usable court space. Our estimates total several million dollars to accomplish that, and we have 1733 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET already received four or five proposals in response to our request for proposal for our potential services. We are meeting to determine what our construction costs would be, and we can tell you, based on experiences with other jobs, that we're anticipating it to cost anywhere from 3 to $4 million to do those renovation. With respect to technology, after our competitive bid process, Deloitte Touche was retained to do a complete analysis of the First Judicial District's technology architecture, and we are now in the process of implementing those recommendations. For example, the wide-area network, which the court uses, goes back to the early '90s; it's a (indiscernible) system. As Council may no 19 (indiscernible) is out of business and is no 20 longer being supported. I think their support ends this March. So we have received estimates through the consultant, and we know, for example, that to replace that system, it can cost up to $5 million. All of the PC's which the City bought 1734 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET on a bond at the Criminal Justice Center, 700 items, are about years old, and they have -- 4 they have exceeded their useful life expectation. 5 We are now in the process of getting competitive bids to replace all of that equipment. So this is just an example of how those dollars are being used. The court could have spent money perhaps more quickly, but we believe that it would be irresponsible to just spend money for the sake of doing so, without a studied, concerted plan of how we would be spending the money. And we've presented the encumbrance, if you will, spending plan to Mr. Dubow, he has it. I'm prepared to answer any questions with respect that the Council may have about that, but it's only because of our ability to retain year-end savings that we've been able to responsibly move forward in making automation and technology a reality in Philadelphia's courts. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Madam President, I'd like to take this opportunity to introduce to you Stanley Krakower, who is here as Chair of the Criminal Law Section of the 1735 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Philadelphia Bar Association and is here on behalf of the Philadelphia Bar. He has asked if he could make a few comments in support of our requests for increased counsel fees, at your discretion.
Thank you. Mr. Dubow, why did the Administration not include the $3 million that is being requested?
A couple of reasons. The reason -- one reason is we didn't get the request till after the budget process was through; but even if we had, we would look at this increase as something that should have been covered under the zero-growth agreement. And, for example, in prior years, as Mr. DiPrimio mentioned, when they were savings against budget, the First Judicial District got to keep that. On the other hand, I think that when there are costs that they're incurring from one of their initiatives, that they should bear those costs. And another part of it, too, is in the past, there have been years when the fees have been higher. I think in '97, they were 9.2 million, and they were only allocated 7.6 in 1736 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the budget this year. So I think in the past, they've shown that they can actually incur higher counsel fee costs and still have savings that go back to the OPC.
Okay. Mr. Dubow and I have discuss, and not to suggest a debate, Madam President, but I might point out that in the past, whenever the City had a project that they wished to be initiated -- for example, electronic monitoring for pre-release to maintain the prison cap -- the City had supplemented the First Judicial District's budget for those types of projects. We respectfully submit that the need to expand counsel fee appropriation is tantamount to that type of a program because, quite honestly, no 22 one envisioned the rate of increase in the number of arrests, which have resulted by our very fine Police Commissioner. And we, the First Judicial District, is just like, for example, the District 1737 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Attorney, the Police Department, the prisons, Community Legal Services, the Law Department, all of which have experienced supplements to their budgets, while, at the same time, have had to come back to Council for technological needs as well. The courts, on the other hand, have not come back to Council for any court-related expenditure or for any technological needs. That's the first thing. With respect to the increases, the First Judicial District established, and I will round it out, $7.6 million as a line item appropriation for counsel fees, and I'm going to suggest that that occurred back in 1995. Kevin; is that correct? '96. And that item had been established and has been consistently put into our appropriation. However, there have been shortfalls steadily, and the courts had been required by the prior administration, not without any willingness on the courts' part but just by de facto, what would happen is that the courts would have to go into its year-end savings, for example, and make up whatever the shortfall was. And we have 1738 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET calculated those numbers, and it is included in your testimony as an attachment, but to the tune of in excess of $10 million have come out of the courts' operating budgets and out of year-end savings since 1996 to supplement that shortfall in the counsel fee appropriation. I would respectfully submit that that was not the spirit or the intent of the zero-growth budget, nor was it the intent of the agreement with respect to the courts' ability to retain savings. Those savings clearly were intended for technology and for capital improvements, and we are using those funds for that purpose, albeit we have been forced and compelled to use those savings to the tune of $10 million to supplement counsel fees. We were we believe that the presentation and proposal to Council to be a responsible one. We believe that it is one with the spirit of cooperation with the Philadelphia Bar and under the leadership brought by President Judge Massiah-Jackson and the support of our Pennsylvania Supreme Court. I might add that we think this is a 1739 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET long-term funding strategy which will enable the courts and the Bar to cooperatively manage the pool of funds that Council would appropriate, and that we would be able to adjust rates of payments accordingly, and so that when times allow us, we can make reasonable increases, particularly in the area of dependent children and families at risk. That is the area that is crying out for justice. While at the same time, it will enable us to accommodate rates of growth of court appointments, which really trickle down because of the increase in arrests that the Administration is requiring. May I -- Madam President, I'd like to bring to Council's attention the fact that the Chancellor of the Philadelphia Bar Association, Carl Primavera, has joined us, and I believe Mr. Primavera might be willing to offer testimony in support of us today.
For the record, can you tell us what the current counsel fees are, for the record?
Yes, yes. May I defer to Kevin Cross for the specific on this, Madam President? 1740 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
I am Kevin Cross, Deputy Court Administrator for Financial Services for the First Judicial District. In the current fiscal year -- that would be Fiscal Year '01 -- our projected counsel fee expense is about $7.4 million. That's about $400,000 higher than our actual expense in the previous fiscal year. We anticipate growth in two public growth: in the dependency area and also in the misdemeanor cases, where Mr. DiPrimio has testified that there have been increases in the number of appointments that have been made.
I realize that. However, I think my question is, can you tell us what the counsel fees are for the homicides cases or --
I just want 1741 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the record to reflect that, please.
Madam President, for example: In domestic violence cases, the flat fee is $350. Dependency cases -- and the law requires the appointment of counsel for the adult parents or custodians of children at risk. It's a $300 flat fee in the first year, and $150 total in subsequent years. For children, it's $300, the first year; $150 capped for all subsequent years. So the combined total is $450 for a family for one, two, or three years, and these cases typically require several hearings and run in excess of 18 months on average. Juvenile delinquent cases are capped at $300.
Delinquent investigators and experts: $100. 1742 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Non-homicide cases: $300 for preparation, plus the -- $600, excuse me, preparation, plus the first day, and then $300 a day thereafter for non-homicides. Homicides: $1700 in preparation, plus $400 a day thereafter. Homicides appeal: $60 an hour in court; $50 an hour out of court. Non-homicide appeals: $50 an hour in court; $40 an hour out of court. Homicide post-conviction relief cases: $60 an hour in court; $50 an hour out of court. Non-homicide PCRAs: $50 an hour in court; $40 an hour out of court. Professional services for homicide cases: $300 flat fee, plus $35 an hour. Professional service for non-homicide cases: $100 flat fee, plus $35 an hour. Municipal Court misdemeanors (obviously non-homicide): flat fee of $350.
Thank you. I have some other questions, but I notice that there are other Councilmembers that want to be recognized. 1743 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET So at this time, the Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
Thank you, Madam President. First, could you explain what you mean by "capped" and what you mean by "flat fee."
Yes. CHAIRMAN COATES: Because those who are not members of the Bar, they may not understand what that means.
Yes. Because of the rate with which the counsel-fee expenditure was growing, the former leadership of the Administrative Governing Board appointed a committee which looked into the rate of cost, where they were currently, the cost centers, and come back with recommendations about how these costs might be brought under control. And, in fact, the committee consisted of members of the former Administrative Governing Board as well as three lawyers by then-Chancellor Frank Devine, George Newman being one of the lawyers. They also had a lawyer, Bill Love, who represented --
Well, my question 1744 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET specifically is, what does it mean "capped"? Why do you mention that?
I was trying to lay the groundwork for the answer. The idea of cap -- there were certain case types, like dependent children, where $300 was paid in the first year, but then $150 was paid in the second year, and it was capped at that $150, even if the case required more than the second year's worth of representation. So it's a bifurcated payment process -- 300 plus 150 -- but it could be that that case lasted in excess of the months or two years, which was envisioned. 15
But wouldn't that 16 mean that no matter how many days in court and no 17 matter how many hours spent -- 18
-- the total fee received by the attorney would be, if capped at $350 --
-- meant that he only received, or she only received, she only received, $350, no matter how many hours in court 1745 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET or out of court.
You are absolutely correct, Councilman. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: And also, Councilman, no matter how many years that case might last.
Yes. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: So that if a case lasted three or four years for various reasons of review of the circumstances of that child, the attorney is still limited and capped at that second-year amount of the second --
Which means the attorney has one of two choices: to limit totally the amount of time and energy spent on the case; or, in effect, to accept the case as a pro bono case.
Isn't that a fact? I mean, we want to get the real facts here because what we're trying to do is to find a way to permit the courts and the whole criminal justice system and the justice system involving indigent children 1746 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET with family problems to get justice in the courts.
And what has happened over the year, as I understand it, is that it's almost impossible to get experienced attorneys to sacrifice the time and energy needed to give proper representation, and that's one of the areas both in the family cases and in the criminal cases that the $3 million is intended to deal with. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: That's correct.
Is that accurate? JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: That's accurate, Councilman, yes.
Well, I -- Madam President, I have been involved for a number of years with the Criminal Justice Section and with the Bar Association generally in an effort to right this situation with respect to both areas. And it seems to me that it's absolutely essential to have this additional funding. The only question I have is, I'm not sure that it's enough because I thought that $3 million figure was what was needed probably 1747 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET just to deal with the criminal defense area, but at least it's a beginning, and we can test it and see, you know, what the facts really turn out to be. But it's a kind of a crime in itself, the way in which the people that appear in the courts are not being adequately represented and the burden that the private bar is forced to carry in cases where the Public Defender's Office is not available, oftentimes because they can't represent two different defendants in a case, that kind of thing.
So I would strongly urge to Mr. Dubow that this is a matter of great urgency that has to be settled. I don't know about the details of that original flat zero, flat growth operation, but there are many other ways. Since my son became a member of the bench and I've learned some facts about it, the whole structure of pay seems to be back in the medieval ages. They cap their salaries of employees who work for the courts at salaries so low that they're far below what we pay in government in the City 1748 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Council and I'm sure throughout the administrative departments of City government. And so I think that your efforts to bring the courts up to date is a very fine step, and I welcome that. And I think we've got to find a way in City Council to give them support. And I think the Mayor, who is a lawyer, understands this. He's always, in Council, been a strong supporter of the Public Defender, of Community Legal Service, of proper defense of criminals. You have those who are charged with criminal offenses and with the indigent. So I just think this is a matter in which City Council ought to hold the Mayor's Office, you know, their feet to the fire until we get this properly resolved. And I'm delighted -- it's the first time it's been brought out this clearly, Madam President Judge and the administrative officer, in the fashion that it has been today. Thank you. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Thank you.
You're 1749 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET welcome.
And are we going to be able to hear from Mr. Krakower and Mr. Primavera? I think their insights on this are part of the --
We will recognize them, Councilman, at the appropriate time. Thank you.
Mr. DiPrimio, I want this record to be crystal-clear. How did you arrive at the $3 million figure? And tell us, what are the projected costs for counsel fees for FY 2002?
We anticipated the question, Madam President. And with Mr. Cross's assistance, we will put onto the record -- may Mr. Cross put it on the record?
Thank you. 1750 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET We looked at our current fee structure and looked at the cases that needed the attention the most and we decided that was in the Family Court area. The highest fee increases are in the Family Court area. They are projected out to be -- the proposal itself is a three-year proposal. We have projected to front-load the increases in the first year as much as possible but also keep some money available for projected increases in caseloads. So there's two properties to the plan. One is to increase the fees, and then also to provide some funds for additional caseloads, which we are experiencing. We expect that -- we have -- over the past six years, we've had a 6 percent rate of growth in our counsel fee payments and in the number of petitions that we pay also. These increases -- in each specific line item, one may be up and one may be down, but consistently across the board, it's about 6 percent. So we have factored a 5 percent increase in our caseloads for appointments over the next 3 years. So we have provided about 1.5 million for the increase in the 1751 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET caseload and about 1.5 million also for the increase in the fees. Now, with that increase in the fees, I would say about 50 percent of that is in the Family Court -- or maybe about 40 percent is in the Family Court area, 30 percent is in the Common Pleas criminal area, and about percent is in 9 the Municipal Court area. So we've tried to 10 distribute the increases in each court. 11
What do you 12 think your expenditures will be for the FY '02? 13
With the fee increase, it 17 would be about -- just one second, please. 18 It would be $8 million. That would be 19 just strictly with the fee increase. With the 20 projected increases in caseloads, it could be as high as $9.4 million.
$9.4 million. And that's with a. . . 1752 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
I thought the question was, what was the increase? I'm getting the impression that this is in answer to what the total is?
Yeah, okay. The increase would be about $1.7 million over our appropriations of $7.7 million.
Would it be helpful to Council if we provided the rate of increase on case type? In other words, the actual rate that lawyers be getting based on the different models?
Is that in the information that you've submitted to us?
Yes, it is. It's Attachment 3, I think, in our budget testimony -- Attachment C.
Thank you. And while you're searching for the 1753 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET page --
-- can you tell us why you're asking for 3 million and not the 1.7?
We are trying to set up a long-term funding apparatus that will allow us to look at the fee increase and then also look at the case increase and to phase in these increases over a three-year period. We want to be conservative in our projection, and we don't know exactly how much the increase in our caseload is going to be and then also what the net impact of the fee increase is going to be. So we want to try and phase this in over a three-year period. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Madam President, I'd like to add to that comment, I've been elected as President Judge for a five-year term. I've already spoken to Mr. Krakower and to others about planning at least, if you will, a five-year plan at the very minimum, but we don't want to have to come before you each year to discuss counsel fees. One of the objectives of this administration is to put this issue behind 1754 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET us. We've extended proposals to the Philadelphia Bar Association. We're very pleased with the support of the Bar Association. We have every indication that the Bar Association is working with us. And, as you see, we have two representatives here who are going to be speaking shortly. And we feel that this counsel fee issue has come to a crisis situation. We're looking forward to a very positive and long-term plan for justice for the families of Philadelphia, for the children of Philadelphia, for the indigent defendants of Philadelphia. So rather than coming to you today for $1 million or 1.5 or some smaller amount, we're looking for a long-term plan in conjunction with the Philadelphia Bar Association, because we still have to work with the Bar to establish new caps and new parameters so that just -- if we are able to achieve any success with our proposal, we don't want to spend all of the money up, you know, in the first year. We have to work out a strategy for change.
Thank you. 1755 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
For example, the numbers that Mr. Cross testified to, with the increase of a little over $8 million, it was based on a very, very conservative rate of increase; to wit, $50 per case and dependency. I would respectfully submit that we have begun the discussions with the Bar, but I don't know whether a $50 modest raise in a dependency appointment is going to get the job done. But, you know, we come to Council in a responsible way, because we say, is it 10 million, is it 15 million? We wanted to start somewhere, and what we have done is modeled. For example, if the first-year increase, instead of for dependent children, instead of being 300, is now projected at $500, then the rate of increase would be such that we would use the entire $10 million up in the first fiscal year. And so we could justify the $10 million, depending on what rate of increase we plug into the beginning. But I would respectfully submit to 1756 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Council --
I would assume that you're really having a very difficult time getting competent attorneys to represent many of the clients at these fees.
I'm sorry to say you're correct. What we've experienced lawyers is that those stalwart lawyers, who, day in and day out, provided representation, be it on the criminal and side sadly on the dependency side, are now telling us that they cannot afford to make this type of case a substantial part of their practice because they can't pay their bills. And I'm a lawyer 15 years, Madam President, and I can tell that you 16 pro bono is an important part of what we do we do, 17 but the bottom line is that, you know, we do have 18 administrative overhead, and I know that my 19 colleagues at the Bar have administrative 20 overhead. And if they want to dedicate 21 themselves, even if it's 10 percent of their 22 practice to these types of cases, I respectfully 23 submit that it's cost-prohibitive.
And I would assume it takes more than just one court 1757 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET appearance to really address the case?
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have done a little bit of work or expressed a fair amount of concern about this particular area. Councilman Cohen, as he pointed out earlier, has been working on this for some time, but as one of the non-Bar members, but still actively practicing until I'm caught, I do have a great concern about what goes on in the legal community. And as I was listening to some of these fees that are paid, whether it's the current fees or even subsequent, I was struck, and I guess I wondered, in the -- I guess in the other part of the world, or in the other part of the system, where people just hire their own attorneys because they have the means to do so, I do wonder from time to time what those fees kind of generally are or what -- I assume the person is more on an 1758 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET hourly kind of rate, and depending on the case and the complexity, it can run up tremendous figures. And so what strikes me first is that there's probably no one in this room who would ever want to be in the kind of situation where they're forced under these circumstances to end up in a court-appointed situation, with very good attorneys trying to do what they do, the best for their clients. But, I mean, one, they have a practice, they have lives. And unless they're just prepared to totally devote themselves to charity, which, you know, might work for about a year or so and then you're going to be out of business. And so, I mean, we do have a system here that fundamentally says, you know, you will get at the end of the day as much justice as you can afford. And that is, I think, not one of the tenets of what this country is all about. And then we have real financial situations that we have to come to grips with. And somewhere in between, there has to be some relatively happy medium that says, you know, we want good representation for people; no, you cannot on a 1759 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET regular basis maybe hire, you know, maybe F. Lee Bailey or Johnny Cochran, but, you know, you are going to be able to pay something that allows the person to put a decent amount of time and effort into these very complex cases that, I'm sure, in many instances, go way beyond whatever our estimates are in terms of days and times and other complexities. And, lastly, I also wondered what the other side is doing. If you're in a criminal situation, for instance, I wonder, you know, if we could ever calculate between the time and the resources and the experts and the like what are you faced with if you're in court as an indigent person and the full array of the government prosecuting you, guilty or innocent -- I mean, we'll figure that out when we get to court. And I think, for the most part, the government spends what the government needs to spend to put on its case. And so, you know, you're sitting there with a pocket knife and the other person has a bazooka. And then you say, Well, you know, but I'm trying to get my day in court here. And, I mean, we know, obviously, that that's not a fair 1760 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET fight. 7. I think, first and foremost, President Judge Massiah-Jackson and Mr. DiPrimio, you're to be commended for wanting to put forward something that is reasonable and responsible and also that lays out a game plan. My concern is that -- and this often happens during this time of year -- for the one day we have the intersection of all three independent branches of government trying to figure out a particular problem: you've got the legislative body; the administrative, represented by Mr. Dubow; and, obviously, the courts. I would like to strongly encourage, and I know that there ever been some meetings and discussions, and we'll be at this for a little while. I would like to think that there is still some opportunity to come to a meeting of the minds between and among all three branches of government about this.
7 or some other number, it seems to me that if some reasonable agreement can be made, at least 1761 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET for this year, in looking at your game plan and making other evaluations about what happens going forward. I think Judge Jackson said it very well in that, no, you don't want to be at the table under these circumstances every year, making this kind of request. And that in an optimal situation, you go through the budget process like everyone else, and then it's just already in the budget. But I think people need to, you know, better understand what the operation is all about, where you're trying to go, where we find ourselves, what the Administration wants to do. I mean, we're not -- I'd like to think that we're not at odds, but we are trying to figure out how to slice up scarce resources that are growing more scarce day to day. I think it also -- lastly, Madam President -- needs to at least be recognized that this is a situation that's also somewhat reminiscent of the situation with the School District, because lurking in the background of all of this is certainly the general feeling that, well, you know, the courts are supposed to be 1762 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET taken care of by the Commonwealth or by the State legislature some long time ago, and why are we still doing this and how did we end up in this situation. And during the number of years in the Rendell Administration, you know, every year, we'd only put half of the courts' money in the budget and the other half got stuck somewhere else, and we then acted like we were not going to give it to the courts 'cause we were playing this brinkmanship with the State and then we always came back with a transfer ordinance and gave you the money because we weren't going to shut down the courts. I mean, it just would be a complete and utter mess. So, I mean, that -- I think it just needs to be put on the record that all of these other things are lurking in the background that don't necessarily get discussed but that do affect what we do and how we do it. And if someone thinks that, you know, you've got another pot of money somewhere that you can tap into, then, you know, why are we being asked for something else. I think it just all needs to be brought out. 1763 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET I support some increase in this fee structure. Again, as I said earlier, I would not want to be in this situation. I'm not sure who I would end up with. I mean, I don't know if I could afford Mr. Primavera but, you know, he might knock the fee down a little bit just to be a nice guy. I think if we can get some agreement, at least at the moment, that you will continue to work on this during this budget process, and if there is some opportunity to come to agreement before these bills come out of committee, I'd like to strongly encourage that, but I do think that the fees should be increased. I respect the budgeting process that you're trying to go through. If we can match that up with the situation that we're in you -- you may not get everything that you want, but, I mean, we still all generally operate in an environment that something is always better than nothing. And if we can then plan for the future in a responsible fashion, we might be able to accomplish all of our respective goals. So I want to encourage that. And I know Mr. Dubow is looking forward 1764 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET to another meeting with you and will probably want to set that up right after you go through the guardrail there. I think he's checking his calendar right now, as we speak. )
So, Madam President, I would ask if we could keep your eye on this and make sure that whatever's going to happen does get some resolution while we're still in the hearing process, I would deeply appreciate it.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
In your testimony, you talk about new technologies and some of the things that you plan to do to make things more efficient. Could you describe how the First Judicial District's -- do you work with our technology people, the communications people? Are we coordinating some of these efforts to try and 1765 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET bring costs down and not to try to reinvent the wheel?
In an answer, yes. We work very closely with MOIS. I can tell you, going back to the original days when we were concerned about Y2K, for example, and I might add to Council that the First Judicial District's all Y2K expenses were paid for exclusively by the First Judicial District via the court (indiscernible), and not one penny came from the City's Administration, unlike other departments. And we're proud of that. We had no glitches through the Y2K nightmare. But I can tell you, we work closely with them. We partnered with them, for example, for the Internet, including the CityNet. We partnered with them on the daisy chain for video conferencing, and we do that in an effort to be compatible and to keep the costs down. So in a succinct answer, yes, we work very closely with them.
The new telephone system 1766 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET is a perfect example of intergovernmental cooperation. When my judges would say to me, Mr. DiPrimio, we need a phone system, and you can't get the switches, believe it or not, the switches that the City Hall courts were using were last built in the 1930s, and that they're not available. And through Commissioner Joe James, and his people, we've worked with them and they've been terrific about sending maintenance men down -- or mechanics down, I should say -- and they cobble together new switches out of old switches. Well, that's ridiculous. Every time we need a phone line or a phone line change, we have to go to Lois Schmidt, and it costs the City untold dollars every time a change has to be -- occurs. I went to the Board and I said voice communication is technology, they approved the expenditure, we did do it by the RFP process. In fact, we hired a consultant, Compass Consulting, 'cause we didn't know how to do this, but we worked with Joe James and we worked with Vince Costello and his staff. And we're very proud to tell that you we've selected a vendor, and the backbone is being run. We cooperated with the 1767 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Communications Department to make certain that as we ran our backbone and our wires through the corridors, that it would allow growth for the City to the extent that the City wanted to piggyback onto that which we have run. So we're working very, very cooperatively with all of the people in communications in that area.
The City of Philadelphia, on a monthly basis, sends us the bills, and when we receive the bills, they're departmentalized. And then if there are any, for example, nonbusiness-related calls that are made, then that department has to reimburse the City. I do it myself.
Let's not talk about 1768 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET nonbusiness-related calls; let's just talk about your day-to-day operation. Does that money come out of your budget?
How many City vehicles does the First Judicial District have and how do you pay for those?
I -- it's my recollection that we may have as many as 80 vehicles.
I'm going to -- I'd rather not guess, but if I'm going to guess, I would say approximately 80 vehicles.
Some are paid for by the FJD by way of grants, others have been paid for by the City, to the extent that the City had requested the FJD to do new initiatives. For example, in the last budget, the City administration asked to us expand our electronic monitoring and fund it for that purpose so that they would stay in compliance with the prison cap. 1769 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET A part of that, the City bought vehicles.
So you have vehicles that are assigned to the First Judicial District that are not in your budget, that Fleet Management just provides you a vehicle, and that's City money that you get that is not budgeted?
That's correct. And I saw that in the report to PICA. Mr. Cross -- there is a -- and it predates my tenure in this position, but I believe Mr. Cross can speak to the vehicle plan that was worked out with the City.
There is some information that an agreement was reached in prior administrative years, going back before President Judge Massiah-Jackson and myself, but there was an agreement reached, and I'm and only privy to it by way of hearsay, that there was some funding accommodation, that a trade-off was made in order to provide those vehicles.
Excuse me. When Fleet Management was put together as a separate City agency, there were funds that were taken from every City department, and there was funds taken 1770 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET from the First Judicial District, and I think it may have been about $400,000 at the time that was put into Fleet Management to fund its operations. So we -- the First Judicial District did contribute to the formation of Fleet Management.
Thanks, that's good background. And also the parking of those vehicles, I believe the Department of Public Property pays for those. What I'm just getting at here is that there are a lot of things that aren't in your budget that the City of Philadelphia provides, like telephone lines, the monthly charges for the telephone bill, the vehicles that are provided by the City. The judges, the parking -- who pays for the -- does the State pay for the parking, or does the --
All parking for the First Judicial District vehicles is either on 1771 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET street, and that's minimal, or is paid for by the court itself out of our Operating Budget.
Okay. Where I'm heading here is, there's a lot of money that supports all operations, not just yours, that aren't really in the budget, we can't see it. Because, again, 80 vehicles are provided by Fleet Management, telephones are provided, parking's provided. So in many cases, there's a lot of money that support particular departments that we can't really identify, and I hope someday we can get there to see the real numbers. Because, again, I would assume the support that is unbilled for the First Judicial District is a significant amount of money. And, again, you're not the only game in town that -- you're not the only organization that that's occurring to; there's a lack of detail when it comes to those support issues. And I appreciate that background about that money moving out of there to Fleet 1772 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Management. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Good morning.
Good morning, and good morning, Mr. DiPrimio. The area of questions that I have for you guys is relative to indigency. It relates directly to the Public Defender's Office more than to you; however, from my reading of the 1997 audit by Jonathon Saidel relative to the Defender's Office, there is a role that pretrial services plays in determining indigency and the appointment of a public defender for someone accused of a criminal matter. There seemed to be, in the course of the -- now, pretrial services is an area that the First District is responsible for administering?
Okay. There seems to be some concern in the '97 audit that pretrial services, the Public Defender's Office, the Bail Commissioner, the Municipal Court all have varying role in determining or investigating the true need of a defendant. And the reason I raise this, and I'm going to raise it with the Public Defender's Office, is that I've been getting anecdotes about individual specifically more so involved with drug-related crimes who are posting cash bail in the amounts of 1,000, 2,000, $3,000 in an effort to get out of -- you know, to get out of jail but wind up back in front of a Municipal Court judge with a public defender. And I guess the question is, are we doing a thorough enough job in the investigation of people, especially in drug-related, high-cash kind of crimes as to their true need, their true financial need? And I'm not suggesting that we should reduce the amount of money for the defender; what I'm concerned about is whether or not we're maximizing the dollars given to the Defender's Office and spread enough through to people who are truly in need, as opposed to people 1774 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET who, on paper, appear to be poor, but perhaps have some cash stashed somewhere as a result of their activities. If someone, you know, provides a $3,000 cash bail to get out, would that not indicate that there may be the wherewithal to hire a lawyer, with that kind of money?
If you could maybe go through a little bit about the process that is employed in regards to determining whether or not a defendant is, in fact, indigent. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Councilman, if you don't mind, Mr. Krakower is an actively practicing, criminal-defense counsel, and perhaps he might be able to answer that question.
I am the Chair of the Criminal Justice Section of the Philadelphia Bar Association. 1775 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
And I'm here on behalf of that section. First, I want to thank Council for an opportunity to even speak to you. And with regard to that particular question, what I frequently see, in fact I'd say, the majority of the time is, bail is not posted by the defendant but by members of the defendant's family. And I would say in maybe three-quarters of the cases, when a defendant needs 1,000, 2,000 or $3,000 in order to get out, it is a parent, it is an uncle, it is a sibling, it's someone else who puts up the bail for the defendant. In drug cases what happens is that the District Attorney's Office and the Police Department have become very effective with forfeiture laws that were passed within the last five to ten years by the legislature, so that the funds that might be the product of drug profits are most frequently forfeited, and the forfeiture section of the Public -- rather, the District Attorney's Office is now taking over not only cash but automobiles, homes, real estate, and just 1776 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET everything else, and they're doing a very effective job of it. So that the image of the drug dealer with a load of assets available generally really isn't true anymore. And the other problem is that the drug dealers that most frequently get court-appointed counsel or defenders are the lower-level, bottom-of-the-barrel, street guys. The people who are doing imports from Columbia kilos at a time, they're hiring big-name lawyers, but the fellow with the $20 cap, you know, the --
I'm having trouble feeling sorry for him at this point. (Laughter.)
You're conjuring up this image of this poor, unsuspecting dude who's in trouble with the law. He's probably one of the main problems I have in keeping people in the City. 1777 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Well, maybe, Councilman, but let me point out one other thing that happens in the courts, and the judges know this and I deal with it every day. You have three or four fellows standing on the street corner, the police pull a raid, they're very effective, and they arrest all four fellows. It frequently -- I don't know how frequently, I don't want to take a guess at whether it's 30 percent or 80 percent, but it happens that all of the fellows on the street corner are not involved in the drug transactions that go on. We do have --
Conspiracy, all of them are charged. And the job of the court system and the lawyer is to sort out who did what. And of course, we have in this country, and I think we still try to adhere to it, a presumption of innocence. So you bring in these four fellows, and quite possibly, two of them are bystanders and two of them are really dealers, but all of them get 1778 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET charged and all of them need defense, and they have court-appointed lawyers to find what they're doing.
They're -- all of them are not charged with the same thing. If the four individuals arrested, two are in possession of narcotics and two or not, they're not charged with -- they're charged with possession?
Oh, yes, and they're all charged with -- they'll be all charged with dealing under the conspiracy theory. All four of them will be charged with the same thing, including drug-dealing. And the courts then -- we go to court and sort out who did what. And that's what goes on in the Criminal Justice Center.
Well, let me read you from Jonathon Saidel's '97 audit, and maybe you can enlighten me. He says: "The recommendations of the Controller is the process of interviewing defendants, verifying information, and assessing the financial ability of the defendants needs to be revised. The procedures utilized to assess the financial capability of the defendants to obtain their own 1779 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET legal counsel has not been amended in several years. The criteria for evaluating indigents should be revised to be consistent with the definition of indigence. "For example, the federal government issued guidelines for determination of eligibility for financial assistance. As for the City of Philadelphia, the income threshold, the primary procedure performed to assess financial capability, has not been amended in to 12 years. Currently, the effectiveness of the 13 process to only provide City-funded legal 14 representation to indigent individuals is not 15 evaluated. Perhaps a party independent of the persons or agencies who make the determination should evaluate the effectiveness of the determination process on a periodic basis. "In order to achieve the objective of providing representation to those who are unable to afford obtaining their own legal counsel, a methodology has to be designed, implemented, and performed which is effective, rather than performing a procedural process in which minimal judgment is used. 1780 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET "As part of the assessment, estimates for the cost of legal representation by private-practice attorneys must be incorporated into the assessment of the defendants' ability to obtain their own money. The defendant will have a greater financial need to obtain an attorney for representation in a homicide case than in a driving-under-the-influence case. The cost of legal representation must be a part of the assessment. Information from procedures performed need to be a part of the assessment process, not the sole support for a conclusion. To ensure if proper determination of eligibility is made, the system should attempt to appoint legal counsel after verification procedures have been performed and the assessment supports appointment of legal counsel. "Currently, the pretrial services has more verification and controls in place to ensure the proper determination of eligibility than the verbal process used by bail commissioners; thus, more determination should be funneled through this entity, with stronger controls. At PTS, additional controls need to be implemented to 1781 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET ensure accuracy of the determinations. There needs to be an enhanced supervisory function over the approval of eligibility determinations. At this level, the effectiveness of procedures, personal interview techniques, and documentation of determinations need to be implemented or further developed. "Conclusions, especially in those cases which contradict the information must be documented in the file. Conclusion on eligibility determinations is the primary means of feedback to measure effectiveness, trained personnel, and to improve the process. "In addition, we noted that nonresidents of Philadelphia, arrested in Philadelphia, if applicable, are provided City-funded legal representation. Statistics should be developed to track the number of nonresidents arrested in Philadelphia with the associated costs of providing legal representation to those nonresidents. " I know it was a long -- and I only read 1782 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET parts of it. Can you tell me what's been done since '97 to kind of improve that situation at PTS. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Councilman, I can tell you this: that since January 10th, when I was sworn in as President Judge, I've had the opportunity to meet with many of deputies in our courts. And among those deputies is Dave Preski, who's the Director of Pretrial Services.
I will talk to him and find out more detail from him about the revision of the guidelines. I cannot specifically give you information about what's been done in the last three years, but I can say this: that the number of employees in pretrial services has dramatically increased in the last three to four years. It used to be just a small unit of maybe 20, men 19 and women; today, there are over 100 men and women 20 with the bench warrant services and the pretrial 21 services investigating units. Those pretrial 22 service employees have more of a supervisory role 23 of these defendants before trial than ever 24 before. 25 And while I cannot specifically answer 1783 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET your concerns or address your questions about the indigency standards, I can assure you that I will talk to Mr. Preski to find out that information.
I appreciate that, Judge, and let me just say for the record that I am in no way suggesting that we should not provide legal counsel, or funding for legal counsel, for those indigent people who are accused -- again, accused -- of a crime, and the presumption of innocence is there. But I guess I'm somewhat concerned as to the lack of ability to track and to determine statistically whether or not we are effectively getting to the people who are actually in fact in need. I mean, there's nothing more ironic or more aggravating, I guess, than the City taxpayer paying for the legal defense of people who are terrorizing their neighborhoods and could afford to pay for that legal defense themselves. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: We agree with you, Councilman. We certainly do.
And any information you could provide I would appreciate. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Sure. 1784 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Madam President, I actually -- I only had a question for either Mr. Krakower or Mr. Primavera, so my light may still be on from earlier, but I only have one question for either Mr. Krakower or Mr. Primavera, and my light was on from earlier, I think.
I should have asked this earlier, in my first long-winded comments, but I was -- I am reminded that the two of you are here, and I wondered aloud earlier about the expenditures, I guess, made by either, in a criminal case, the prosecution, the DA's Office or 1785 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET some of the fees that people in the legal community legitimately do generate if they're not in a court-appointed-counsel situation. Could either of you shed any glimmer of light on that particular topic?
Excuse me. Identify yourself for the record, please.
Yes, Carl Primavera, and I'm here as Chancellor of the Philadelphia Bar Association. And thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. The Philadelphia Bar Association, which has over 12,000 members, is composed of attorneys in solo practice -- large firms, small firms, mid-size firms, government, public-interest firms and agencies. And the only thing that probably unites us is our desire to make sure that our tradition of public service is maintained; otherwise, we're across the table or on opposite sides of the cases. But we are united in that one item. It's my experience that in a commercial 1786 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET setting, lawyers are charging between $100 and $300 an hour, defending upon the case, the experience. And so what it really means is that from the time it took for me to go from my office to be here and to speak probably, I probably, if I'm charging a commercial client, will have been paid more than someone who's spent five years representing a parent who's going to have their rights terminated vis-a-vis their child or something like. So the effort here is not to compensate the attorneys who take these cases commensurate with a commercial rate or fairly on in any way with regard to the effort that they put into these cases, because there's just not enough money in the world to do that. But the effort really is to establish some effort and some signal to the attorneys who are willing to take these cases, that they're being appreciated, that their costs and overhead are somehow being helped out with regard to these cases. And really, it's just a signal to whose who are represented, whether on the criminal side or the family law side, that the attorney that's 1787 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET sitting next to them for prolonged periods of time is hopefully motivated not only out of the kindness of their heart and the tradition we have as lawyers to represent the indigent, but also that they're able to pay an investigator to go to the crime scene, to pay a psychologist to see if there's some mitigating factor in a homicide case, and basically to do the minimum job necessary so that due process of law is real and the commitment to equal justice is real.
Let me just make sure that I understand. And first let me say that I deeply appreciate your straightforwardness and open and honest statements about this. Now, in the chart that I have that's a part of the package, it's entitled "Proposed Fee Increase for Counsel Fee Payments," and I guess it's telling us what the current fee. It's fairly far back in the packet. Let me just make sure again I understand this. It says, "In the Family Division, for instance, an abuse case, the current fee per case type is $350." Now, does that mean if you are court-appointed and you get this case, that your 1788 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET entire fee for the case is $350?
That's correct. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Yes. Not 350 an hour.
Let me cut across that. Now, if you're not in a court-appointed situation. Let's say, unfortunately, you know, it was me, I'm sure I don't qualify for anything, and I'm just out in the open market, and whether it's someone I know or someone that's recommended, what would the person more than likely charge?
The same -- it's a -- "abuse" here, I'm assuming, is maybe child abuse as opposed to domestic violence?
Oh, well, I don't want to use that as an example if I'm going to be involved. (Laughter.)
When I was in active practice, I was a family law attorney. In fact, I chaired the Family Law Section in 1989 and 1990, and my practice was exclusively divorce and support and domestic violence. Some lawyers will, and I did as well, would take a case for a $500 retainer, and that's all you can get, because the client can't afford more.
But I will tell you that the amount of investigation that goes into those cases, domestic violence, and the seriousness of that particular offense is such that it warrants a $3,000 minimum retainer. I can tell you that because that's what I charged.
And all too often, your clients cannot afford to pay. My billing rate at the time was 165 an hour, and I'm going back to 1992. 1790 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Right. Well, I mean it sounds like -- I mean, what I'm getting out of this is literally, the full case expense in the court-appointed is outstripped an hour and a half into the case by the non- -- in the non-court-appointed situation. By lunch, that person's done with what the court-appointed person is going to get for however long it takes.
And when they break, the one has, you know, gotten 350, 400, and the other guy or lady is working for the next 6 months.
If you compare what you pay a plumber compared to what the attorneys make on these cases make, it's incredible, because you 1791 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET have to interview cases, you have to review the law, you have to travel, and there are multiple hearings because there's typically either the need for a continuance for one of the parties, or the case hasn't been heard because of the lack of witnesses.
So these clearly are not meant, as I said before, to approach anything in the commercial context. And our association has concerns about even the 3 million being adequate.
And hopefully, we'll find some other internal things to save money. And also, the Bar is committed to maintaining the high level of pro bono services and maybe even expanding on that so we can all, you know, see this work a little bit better.
Right. I just wanted to make sure that I, you know, very clearly 1792 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET understood the context and the contrast, quite honestly, between, you know, what, again, many of us would experience in our own lives versus, you know, other people who are just in the worst possible situation. With every respect to everyone at the table, in the worst possible system that you ever want to find yourself in, you get in -- it seems like you can virtually never get out, and it's just an ongoing thing, and it's people, it's passion, it's money. And we are then, you know, trying to figure out, how do we help folks and do it in a reasonable fashion. But I thought that the comparison between the court-appointed and the rest of the system was important. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
Public service, I think, is a form of compensation, but as public servants, we nonetheless get a salary, because unless we can feed ourselves and our families, we're not going to be able to perform. 1793 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET As the Chancellor said, what we're seeking is not equality with private services, but we're seeking at least some compensation to enable people who have a feeling toward public service to engage in public service. And that's what's being asked. And my concern is that it may well not be enough because of all of the burgeoning demands put upon the court system. With respect to the issue raised by Councilman Kenney, it's been my experience from the days when I practiced actively as a criminal defense lawyer that many of the appointments at the Municipal Court level would occur in the courtroom, in the police station, where the hearings were held generally in my case, up in the 35th Division, at Broad and Champlost, where there would there would be one public defender. And defendants would come in often, seeking a continuance on the ground that they don't have a lawyer. And in order to move cases forward, the judge would instantly appoint a public defender to permit the calendar to be considered and to avoid constant interminable delays. So that I think a bare statistical 1794 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET survey of appointments of public defenders and in a study made of the finances of the defendants really is no comparison that has any meaning at all. In many cases, judges use their decision and their authority to appoint a public defender in order to permit the flow of cases to go on and to avoid unnecessary delays. So I think it's really a complex system, and I just wanted to make clear that a mere statistical survey is not going to add much light. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate Councilmember Cohen's comments and I want to -- as he has the ability to do, confuse my questions sometimes. (Laughter.)
I'm not looking for mere statistics. What I'm looking for is the process followed to determine indigency -- the questions that are asked, the documents that are 1795 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET required, the process that we employ. I recognize Councilmember Cohen's example of keeping the list going in a preliminary hearing and arraignment, those kinds of issues. I'm talking about when an individual actually comes back with a court-appointed public defender, or a court-appointed attorney, after the process has been investigated, and what we do to investigate that process. Again, I think it's very important that we provide appropriate counsel for people. However, I always marvel at the fact that this is a constitutional right provided by federal law and the Federal Constitution, and the City winds up paying the bill. It's just one of those things the federal government does all the time: it tells us what we should do and then doesn't provide any money for it. But that's what I'm interested in trying to determine: what process there is, how we track it. And the other thing I think Councilman Cohen gave an example of was that when he was practicing criminal law -- and I don't want to 1796 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET determine what year that was, but I would imagine the number of drug cases that were coming through the court system at that point in time were probably not as many as are coming through today. And the concern that I have is with the amount of cash that is available relative to drug cases. I'm wondering whether or not some of these guys and ladies aren't hiding some of this money because it's not shown on paper. You can easily show that you're not employed, you can easily show that you have no direct source of income. However, you could be sitting on some cash that could be used to pay one of the members of our Bar Association directly. Thank you.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Your Honor, I'm sure I speak for all of the Councilmembers when we say we're very, very glad to have you there, and we appreciate all of your efforts and your commitment to our City. 1797 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Thank you, Councilwoman. I'm very honored to be here.
Mr. Primavera, is there any statement that you would like to make at this time?
Yes, very briefly. And thank you, Council President Verna, for the opportunity. As I said before, the Philadelphia legal community has many diverse interests, and the one thing that they are truly united behind is making sure that the court-appointed counsel system is improved and made fair. It's been a point of tension between the Bar and the courts in the past because the Bar has been impatient. And really, I think, Councilman Kenney mentioned it, we keep having all of these unfunded mandates, and that doesn't make it easy for court administration or the legislature to deal with it. But the reality is that when the law mandates the right to counsel, and we as a society want to make sure that those accused of a crime are adequately defended, and also want to make 1798 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET sure that they don't end up getting appeals and being released or given new trials because their first counsel wasn't effective or they weren't properly represented. So we feel that at this point, with President Judge Massiah-Jackson now reaching out to us, and our commitment to work together and try to find additional ways to make the system work better for the people of Philadelphia, that this is a step in the right direction, and anything that Council can do to help us along with that would be greatly appreciated by the entire Bar Association.
Thank you. Mr. Krakower, did you want to make a statement?
Yes, if I may. Madam President and members of Council, I also appreciate the opportunity to be here and just to make a few comments, that one of the things that we're doing here today, that I think has to be mentioned, is that you see representatives of the Bar Association, our chancellor, myself as Chair of the Criminal 1799 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Justice Section, and the representatives of the First Judicial District, President Judge Massiah-Jackson and Mr. DiPrimio, all sitting together as a unified group of allies, seeking to work hand in hand to, among other things and primarily, to improve the quality of justice for the people of the City of Philadelphia, which I think is something that we all share. And I think that it is something that should be recognized, that if there ever was any concern about an adversarial or a quasi-adversarial relationship between the Bar Association and the First Judicial District, that that is now over. We are absolutely determined, all of us, to work together. We had a very productive meeting about a week or so ago. And at that meeting, we laid the groundwork for future meetings and future programs where we will work together to do two things. One is to improve and to sustain the basic quality of that wonderful thing called "justice" that goes on in the criminal justice system; and also to do it in a way that bears responsibility for the finances that are provided 1800 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET by the people of Philadelphia through their City Council. We are aware of the responsibility for doing that, and we intend to work together in that regard, so that the dollars that you do give to the First Judicial District will be used and spent in a way that the lawyers will also have opportunity to have input. That doesn't mean we'll always get what we want, but we know that the door is open to the administration of the First Judicial District and to the Office of the President Judge. And we're looking forward to working together harmoniously in the next five years. And I want to thank Council for everything that we've done in the past, by the way that Council has done, to help bring us to the point where we are now.
And I certainly want to thank you and Mr. Primavera for taking the time to come in to testify today. At this point, the Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And good morning. 1801 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Good morning.
Just listening to some of the testimony this morning and questions being asked by Council, kind of on the same line as Councilman Kenney. When, I think, Judge Massiah-Jackson, you spoke about the DA's Office with the forfeiture money, or maybe that was -- JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Mr. Krakower.
About the forfeiture money and things like that. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Yes.
When a defendant is found guilty, I think that the DA's Office generally auctions off the property, private property, as it relates to the case. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Yes.
Is any of that money given back to the court for reimbursement? JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: It goes to the DA's Office, I think.
The DA's Office. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: The DA's Office 1802 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET gets it.
They get it all? Is there any -- is there a reason why that isn't done? Is it not permitted? I'm just thinking, if you're trying a case, why shouldn't some of that money go back to the entity that basically brought that person to justice in the first place and reimburse the courts? Which is really reimbursing the taxpayers for the costs related to the public defender. I mean, it goes somewhere, obviously. I'm sure a lot of the -- and the DA probably wouldn't want to give up that money because the DA has expenses as well. But maybe there's a way in which some of that money, a portion of that money, could go back maybe at least to pay for the legal expense that was incurred for the court-appointed attorney. Just a thought.
Your Honor, the forfeiture money goes, to the best of my knowledge, to the DA and the Police Department, does it not? JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: It does. 1803 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
And was that a State act that enabled them to (indiscernible) the Forfeiture Act? JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: It's statutory. Yes, it is. I think it's a very appropriate concern.
Well, maybe the pie should be cut up three ways. I mean, I understand and I fully believe and support that the Police Department should be reimbursed for its expenses, and the DA's Office. Why not the court? JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Well, Mr. DiPrimio has an anecdotal comment that he'd like to present to your attention, which is very important, because I think it's important to keep in mind that we're not talking only about the indigent defendants on the criminal side, but a large chunk of this relates to the families.
Councilman DiCicco and Madam President, several years ago, and it was prior to the current district attorney, an effort was made, spearheaded to try and get some of that drug forfeiture money back in the system to pay 1804 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the child support owed by some of these guys that were being locked up with drug money, and we were unsuccessful in that area. The -- because, clearly, the statute does -- the drug forfeiture statute, as I recall, does not provide for disbursement of that outside law enforcement and the district attorney, but it's been so sacrosanct that we haven't even been able to get back child support out of it.
But I guess the answer, then, lies with the State legislature.
I think you're correct, Councilman. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Yes.
So we need to visit the State legislature, and I'd be willing to work with the court, and I'm sure the other Councilpeople here would be willing to work along with you.
I don't have any other questions. It's just an observation from listening to this testimony that some --
I think we 1805 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET would all join you, Councilman.
I mean, I have the same opinion about the Traffic Court. You know, I came from the Traffic Court for about years, is 6 that the Traffic Court generally struggles for 7 additional resources for personnel. Why shouldn't 8 some of money that is collected by way of the 9 traffic violation fines go back into the court for 10 computerization or personnel. 11 I mean, you take it from one -- it goes 12 into the General Fund, and then where it goes, 13 it's anybody's guess. But I think the departments 14 who are out there generating the revenue -- not to 15 be disrespectful to the criminal element, that may 16 be a part of what we're doing -- should get some reimbursement so they can at least keep up with the technology. I mean, I know I was always fighting for money at Traffic Court just for technology purposes. So why shouldn't we put some of that money back -- reinvest it back into the system that we're asking to go out and do the best that they can do with -- as you said, Joe, you have telephone systems that have parts that are back in 1806 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the 1930s. So I think we maybe we have to look at this on a more holistic view as it relates to the First Judicial District in total about how we get some of this money back into the system that we're always asking you to do better at. And you do a great job with the limited resources that you have, so I think we have to figure out a way of funding, without really disturbing or taking out of the General Fund per se. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Councilman. The Chair recognizes Councilman Kenney.
I think I mentioned in the second part of my request is the number of nonresident individuals arrested. I just wanted to make sure that that was a part of the analysis. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: I understood that.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen. 1807 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Madam President, I just wanted to mention when I first started the questioning of counsel fees more than five years ago, I never envisioned the day when the Chancellor of the Bar and the Chairman of the Criminal Justice Section and the President Judge and the Administrator Officer would all be sitting together, as they are now, cooperating. I really think it's a great day for the court system and -- (Laughter.)
And for the Bar and for Philadelphia. (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.) JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Thank you, Councilman.
I think it's wonderful. They're all to be congratulated.
Thank you. Mr. Dubow, I would like to suggest that you meet with the judge and Mr. DiPrimio as soon as possible to talk this over, and we would like 1808 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET to have a report by midweek next week as to how we can address this problem.
Madam President, there is one remaining item that I want to put on the record, if I may. With respect to either -- you may recall that some months ago, there was some discussion or publicity associated with a so-called request for proposal which the court indicated it may let out. I want to report on the record that there is no RFP, and none is being let out. Thank you.
(Inaudible, off-mic.) . . . dealing with the court appointment of what are now court-appointed -- (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.) JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Yes.
It was a great source of friction between the Bar and the courts.
Well, I must point out that one of the first things that our Madam 1809 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET President Judge said to me when we met was, there will be no RFP.
Fine. Thank you all so very much for coming in. And, Your Honor, thank you for your patience. I'm sorry we started late. JUDGE MASSIAH-JACKSON: Thank you.
Thank you. The next department is the Sheriff's Office. (Witness comes forward.)
We are running behind time. Sheriff Green, I appreciate your being here. I understand you had an incident this morning. SHERIFF GREEN: That's correct.
And I thought perhaps you would not be able to make it, so I'm very happy that you're here. Kindly identify yourself for the record and just summarize your testimony since we do have a copy of it, which will be submitted to the stenographer. (Sheriff's Green written testimony 1810 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET attached hereto.) SHERIFF GREEN: Okay, I shall do that. My name is John Green, and I'm Sheriff for the City and County of the Philadelphia. I'd like to respectfully thank you for understanding, first, my tardiness and, second, my attire. I apologize for being dressed like this, but I had an emergency at home. The Sheriff's Office appropriation, as requested by the Administration, is $11,499,748 for Fiscal Year 2002. The Sheriff's Office is requesting an additional $653,632 in order to cover the security requirements at 34 South Eleventh Street, which is Family Domestic Court and Philadelphia Traffic Court. These are two relatively new assignments for the Sheriff's Office, but they are needed assignments, and there are serious concerns at Philadelphia Traffic Court and there are serious concerns at Domestic Court. The mere nature of the type of work that they do in those two buildings dictates a need for security.
I do recall last year that the then-President Judge of Traffic 1811 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Court had called us and spoke about the need for additional security. SHERIFF GREEN: That's correct.
We at that time were in touch with the Finance Department, but apparently, no affirmative action was taken. Did you request this additional funding from the Administration? SHERIFF GREEN: Yes. We made the Administration aware of the need. Quite frankly, there was a change in the administration at Traffic Court around the same time that we had to -- in which we were required to turn in our numbers for the next fiscal year, which meant that we were unable to coordinate a complete picture of what we would need over at the Traffic Court building during the time of submission of our request for Fiscal Year 2002.
How many people do you have at Traffic Court at the present time? SHERIFF GREEN: We have don't have any deputies in Traffic Court.
You don't 1812 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET have any? SHERIFF GREEN: That's correct.
Who does the security work there? SHERIFF GREEN: Well, it's my understanding is that they have a combination of Traffic Court officers.
Thank you, Madam Chair. To the best of my knowledge, at least five years ago, when I left the court as a court administrator, security was basically done by enforcement officers who basically had a dual role. Part of their job was spent out on the street, serving scofflaw warrants or making arrests, and the other part was basically standing at the entrance of the courts and the entrance to the courtroom or the court building. There is a police contingent there that basically handles the citations as they're 1813 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET delivered from the various police districts. They would help out from time to time in the role of security, but there was a limited police force -- I'm not sure what the number of police officers there today is, I'm sure it's down from where it was five or six years ago. It really had no semblance of a security of a security force there. Some of the maintenance employees were actually given titles of security officers.
They would stand at the entrances or stand next to the cashier counter, where a lot of monetary transactions would go on. So for all intents and purposes, there really is no security at Traffic Court, and there hasn't been for as long as I could remember.
Mr. Dubow, could you come front and center, please. (Mr. Dubow returns to witness table.)
Can I just ask Councilman DiCicco one question what he said earlier? 1814 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Councilman, you said that there are enforcement officers who have a dual role? Sometimes they're in the -- at Traffic Court and then -- are you talking about enforcement officers like PEOs?
These are enforcement officers -- that's the title given to people who work for Philadelphia Traffic Court, whose responsibility is to serve warrants and/or make arrests of scofflaws.
And they, from time to time, based the on the need, if it was a busy court day and they were not out on the street, they would be assigned to patrol the hallway and basically try to make the courtrooms as secure as possible.
But, I mean, it's a situation where sometimes they're there and sometimes they're not, not depending on if there's something else they have to do?
That's correct, depending on what the program that the court has 1815 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET established in terms of increased enforcement for scofflaws. And when defendants are arrested and brought into the court either by way of the Police Department or by way of the enforcement officer's arrest, they are in charge of securing the holding room where the defendants are kept until the hearings are heard.
I would only have two other comments, and I know this is probably completely out of order. But, one, there's, I mean, there's hardly a soul at Traffic Court who's there 'cause they want to be there, and even if they are, I mean, except for maybe the employees --
Right, they're not very happy, okay. Second -- I mean, as between the Sheriff's Office doing their security work as opposed to the Philadelphia Police Department, I mean, are these Philadelphia police officers there because they have court time, or have they been 1816 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET assigned to Traffic Court? I mean, they're supposed to be out on the street.
It's a combination of two. There is a clerical unit, if you will, that the police officers maintain. When the tickets are brought in from the various police districts, they're delivered to the police room 9 first. And the tickets -- the citations are then broken down to the police copy and then the court copy, et cetera, and that's -- by way of law, I understand that it has to be done that way. I always felt as though -- with no 14 disrespect to the police officer there -- it was really a waste of manpower to keep them in there, but that's the way it is written.
Additionally, in each courtroom, there is generally one police officer who stands before the court and basically testifies to the testimony that is written on each of the tickets.
Right, I got you, okay. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. 1817 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Thank you. And as I said, I will reiterate that last year, Judge DeAngelis -- I don't know whether they had an incident or two at the Traffic Court, but she apparently was very concerned about the safety in that building for everyone concerned.
If I could just give you a brief history for those of you never been down at Traffic Court at Eighth and Spring Garden, when I was a court administrator, because there was such a concern for safety, I literally took the first courtroom, which was just off the main entrance. To the left, as you come in, is the cashier's department, and then you go to the right, and that was the hallway where the courtrooms were located. I literally turned Courtroom A into the police liaison unit so that it would have police at least a little bit closer to the main activity of the court, the entrance to the court and the cashier's department, and hoped that that would add some level of security. Because the police at one time were kept all the way in the back of the building. And I still believe that the 1818 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET enforcement officers not permitted to carry firearms, so you do have a situation, as Councilman Nutter was alluding to, that people are there who are basically detainees, they're arrested for maybe being scofflaws, but generally a lot of these folks who are arrested have other criminal warrants outstanding, and that's some of the reasons why they're brought into the Traffic Court in the first place, because they may have other warrants outstanding for criminal matters, and then through the system of the court, the Traffic Court is notified, and then they're brought down to Traffic Court. So these are people who will attempt from time to time to escape, not because they're going to be standing in front of a Traffic Court judge for a moving violation, but because they have other criminal cases pending that they were literally arrested for by chance, or because the Police Department was able to apprehend them in the process of another crime. So it is a very dangerous situation that goes on down there. And we are fortunate that some major incident has not happened yet. 1819 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
In addition, in a very recent letter that I think the new administrative judge, Judge Perri, send to Councilmembers, he pointed out that the enforcement officers now are out in the field probably all day long, or all night long, because of the enforce -- the increased activity that enforcement officers are engaged in trying to apprehend scofflaws. So that I think the situation is really pretty desperate. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to get some clarity. On the issue with respects to the Traffic Court itself, aren't there dedicated security officers, Traffic Court employees for that facility? 'Cause I have, on occasion, had some interaction with one or two of them when I went down with -- well, they weren't constituents at the time because I was a 1820 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET staff person, but they were constituents of the former Council President Street, and these people are clearly employees of Traffic Court, and they had concerns about where I parked my municipal vehicle, and we got into a debate about that. And they clearly indicated that they were security for Traffic Court, and they were not police officers, and they didn't appear to be warrant officers. SHERIFF GREEN: But as stated before, they are people who have a dual role. They are people who are really technically enforcement officers who assume the responsibility of security for a particular day for a particular period of time.
So you're saying that these individuals, at some point, they actually go out and serve warrants? They weren't soley dedicated to that facility? SHERIFF GREEN: That's correct, as is my understanding. It is also my understanding that these people do not receive adequate training to provide security for the building. And needless to say, they are not trained to provide security for prisoners. 1821 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Okay. Madam Chair, would it be possible -- and I don't know if the Sheriff or Councilman DiCicco, since you had spent some time down there, to get something in writing that speaks to the specific security arrangements for that facility? 'Cause I have -- I mean, I've experienced something somewhat different.
If I may, Madam Chair. I think the answer to Councilman Clarke is, if you look at the payroll -- I mean, I haven't seen it for five and a half years -- you may see a line item that says "Security Officers." But in reality, they're just ordinary folks who are hired at the Traffic Court. Maybe they were a clerk at one time, and there was a need to have at least someone stationed outside of the courtrooms or at the entrance to the building to basically direct people to where they needed to go. So a title was created for these folks as security officers. But it's not a security officer as I think you or I would typically think of someone 1822 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET who's in security. A bank security guard or a chain restaurant or a food market will have a security officer stationed there. These are just really folks who were hired basically as clerical assistants, who, at some point in time -- and the court said, Well, we need someone to monitor the door at Eighth Street and the door on Spring Garden Street, we need somebody to be the security officer there, and they were given a new title, and they're given a gray shirt --
Yeah, a uniform, with no guns and no -- as the Sheriff says, really no formal training. We did enter into some training program back in the early '90s, but because of the fact that they're not permitted to carry guns, it was very difficult for us to get people who were making probably in the area of to $25,000 a 21 year to take on the responsibility of being an 22 enforcement officer that would go out and apprehend people. And, again, if you would look at the history of it, many of the people who are 1823 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET scofflaws, Traffic Court scofflaws, these are people who have generally a major criminal history criminal background. And it's a difficult job for people to do without even having any means of protecting themselves. So I think you really need someone who has the authority and the training and the ability to deal with those types of individuals. It's a court. Why should Traffic Court be treated any differently than the other courts in the system? You have security guards at the First Judicial District, the CJC, you have them at 1801, and you have them at a lot of other places. So there is a need.
Councilman, I agree with you that these individuals are not adequately trained 'cause one of these individuals actually physically grabbed my arm as it related to a simple incident of where I parked my municipal vehicle. So I agree with you 100 percent that they have no training whatsoever. And I guess my simple question is, who pays for that particular enforcement or that particular -- that particular safety or security 1824 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET officer? Should it be the State or should it be the City of Philadelphia, be it either a Sheriff's Deputy or a Philadelphia police officer? And I guess that's kind of my concern, regardless of whether or not that person is qualified or not. SHERIFF GREEN: Well, our current funding stream comes from the City of Philadelphia. As you know, there's a pending resolution concerning the unified judicial system in the State of Pennsylvania that would allow for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to assume the cost of the courts, but that hasn't actually occurred yet, and we're still waiting for that.
So those individuals that have lobbied -- I guess both this Council and your office from the State- administered facility, with the Traffic Court, I understand, is, have they lobbied the State for financing for security, or are they simply looking to the City of Philadelphia for security? SHERIFF GREEN: I don't know what Traffic Court has done in relationship to requesting funds for their security. I can just tell you that the responsibility of the Sheriff's 1825 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Office is to provide security for county courthouses, and the Traffic Court qualifies as the county courthouse. And so it is the obligation of the Sheriff's Office to provide the needed security.
(Inaudible, off-mic.) . . . Traffic Court, while the judges are State employees, the personnel who run the court are City employees, so I'm not certain if Judge Perri, who's now the new AJ, has been lobbying the State, but I don't think he would get anywhere in the first place, because they're City employees.
I would just like the record to reflect also that in the detailed budget for the Traffic Court, it indicates that there are 12 enforcement officers who, Councilman DiCicco, would go out and serve warrants.
Either out on the street or in the office, doing the paperwork, 1826 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET prior to a team being put on the street, and doing the follow-up paperwork if in fact the --
And the five security guards, you say, do a lot of clerical work?
And they have one assistant supervisor for security guards. Mr. Dubow, having heard the testimony and the request, can you tell us what the position is of the Administration regarding this matter?
Our initial reaction to the request was that what would happen was that Sheriff's employees would replace court employees, and that's why we initially didn't fund it, 'cause we thought they were replacing the court enforcement officers. And I think now, given what we've heard today, we need to meet with the Sheriff's Office and revisit that and look at what their needs are.
I'll add it to my agenda 1827 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET for next week.
Thank you. Are there any other questions for the Sheriff? (No further questions.)
I do hope everything's okay. SHERIFF GREEN: Yes. We're working on it.
I know the Law Department has been waiting, but the Register of Wills is here, and I'm sure it will only take about three minutes. So the Register of Wills come forward. (Witnesses come forward.)
Mr. Donatucci, we do have a copy of your testimony. It will be provided to the stenographer and transcribed in full. So if you would simply summarize your testimony, we would really appreciate it. (Mr. Donatucci's testimony attached 1828 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET hereto.)
Good morning, Mrs. President and members of Council. You are correct, we did submit a two-page letter highlighting basically what our revenue has been for the past year and what our projection is. We are basically in agreement with the Administration's numbers, except for two little areas, and we discussed both of them with Mr. Dubow. One was in the area of 400, Council President, where we are aggressively trying to finish our computerization of the office. I notice Mr. Primavera was here. We are officially now on the Internet for access to our Orphans Court records since 1994. They are Internet-accessible, and we would like to make the rest of the office accessible through the Internet and possibly also charge for some of these services. So we are basically asking in the Class 400 $103,774 so we can get the rest of the computers -- the hardware and the software, the programs to finish our probating. And we had asked for additional monies in our Class 100 for 1829 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET my deputies and attorneys who have not received a raise in approximately three years. It's basically a cost-of-living raise to be comparable to our other employees. One point -- I'm going to keep it very short. If you look at our revenue, we're basically a self-sustaining office, and we do provide services citywide. We have traveling probate clerks, we provide services to bedridden veterans and free services where we don't charge to go out for marriage licenses. We also have two offices, satellite offices, to serve the Northeast and North Philadelphia. This all things that we've implemented and didn't ask for additional employees. We are in the process right now of studying our fee structure with the five surrounding counties to rate some of our fees to be comparable which will bring us approximately $75,000 additional revenue. We also feel once the computerization is done, as I said, for computer access to our office, I feel we could charge a slight nominal fee with the initial probate of an estate. I want 1830 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET to emphasize that a lot of these fees that we will be raising will be in the area of fees that will reflect in more complicated estates and not the smaller estates where there's a question of how much money's in the estate. So basically, the bottom line is, the more money in the estate and the more ability to pay, they will in turn pay the additional fees.
Mr. Dubow, it's my understanding that you're working with Mr. Donatucci to address his concerns?
Thank you. Are there any questions from members of the committee? (No questions.)
The Law Department is next. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good morning, Madam Chair. 1831 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Good morning. Thank you for your patience. We appreciate your waiting.
Okay. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. And we do have a copy of your testimony. I think you heard Mr. Donatucci say that it will be given to the stenographer, who will type it in full, so if you would merely summarize, we'd appreciate it. (Mr. Trujillo's written testimony attached hereto.)
My name is Ken Trujillo. I'm the City Solicitor. Seated to my left is Donna Mouzayck, First Deputy City Solicitor. And to my right is Chris Lane, Director of Administration and Management for the Law Department. Also seated behind me are Stella 1832 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Tsai, who is the Chair of Administrative Law for the Law Department; as well as Dan Cantu-Hertzler Corporate and Tax Chair for the Law Department. And as Madam Chair noted, we have submitted written testimony on behalf of the Law Department's budget request for Fiscal Year 2002. I would like to highlight a couple of the issues which the written testimony describes. First, I'd like to note that a year ago, my first day of work was noteworthy because I came into testify on our budget request for last year. And during that testimony, I told this body that there were a couple of significant challenges that the Law Department had, and that I had hoped that we would have some support in order to meet some of those challenges. And when I testified on February 28th of last year, I had told you that we had had at that point an attrition rate that was reaching a 40 percent possibility for the year with our lawyers if it had gone on the way it had gone. For 1999, we had the highest attrition rate of a decade. Last year -- and so I told this body that we needed to adjust the salary schedule last year. 1833 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Happily, with your support and the support of the Mayor, we did make a significant change to our salary structure. And so we ended up for the year with approximately an percent 6 attrition rate. I'm happy also to report that 7 this year, we've only had one lawyer leave the Law 8 Department since the beginning of this year. So I 9 am appreciative of your support, and I thank you 10 for that. 11 When I testified last year, I also 12 mentioned to you that one of our great challenges 13 would be meeting some of the needs that we would 14 have, both with respect to the organizational 15 staffing, and we have made a couple of fairly 16 significant changes, which, I believe, has allowed 17 us to serve our clients -- the City Council and 18 the Administration -- in a much, much better way. First and foremost, I had mentioned earlier Stella Tsai, who serves as Chair of Administrative Law for the Law Department. Up until her appointment, the way the Law Department was organized was, we had two Chairs that reported directly to me: one was Litigation, Bill 25 Thompson; and the other chair was Corporate/Tax. 1834 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Labor -- all of the Labor work and the Employment work was done through the Special Labor Unit and through Special Litigation. They reported directly to Bill Thompson on the litigation side. The Health and Human Services area, which, as you know, is approximately 30 lawyers in the Law Department, reported to Corporate and Tax. I did not think that that was the best way to do it, and I felt that we needed to have closer supervision, both in the Labor and Employment area and also in the Health and Human Services area. And in that regard, I hired Stella Tsai to be my direct report on those two areas. And so she is now supervising Health and Human Services and the newly-created Labor and Employment Unit. ) who's the Chief Deputy of Labor and Employment. That has given us, I believe, a very, very significant ability to see exactly what's going on when you have cases that are perhaps in 1835 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET two or three different areas at one time, and I'm very pleased with the results that we've seen there. Miss Tsai has also worked very closely with the new Commissioner of the Department of Human Services, and I believe we're making significant progress. And, in fact, we've recently overseen the ending the Baby Neal case just in the last three weeks. The remaining -- my remaining comments are simply with respect to an Affirmative Litigation Unit, which we also formed.
I believe I testified to that last year. And the notion of the Affirmative Litigation Unit was to have a group of lawyers dedicated not only to defending the City -- in this case, for them to be dedicated solely at investigating cases in which the City had been injured economically or otherwise. And my experience has taught me that when you spend 80 percent of your day defending, it's kind of hard to go out and investigate cases and to try to be proactive and to try to be a plaintiff. And so, again, with your support and with the Administration, we've created an 1836 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Affirmative Litigation Unit. We have filed some cases already, and we expect at the very least in this fiscal year, it should be pay for itself, and in Fiscal Year 2002 and going forward, we would expect it to more than pay for itself into the future. Those are the highlights. I know that some of you may have questions, and so I'd be happy to entertain them if you have any.
Thank you. My staff has informed me that the refund payments for the personal property tax is not budgeted in FY '02. In light of the Charter requirement that all payments of the City are to be made through appropriations, why has your department taken the position that these refunds do not -- do not need to be appropriated?
I'm not certain that the Department has taken that position. I will ask Frank Piva (ph.) and Richie Feder, who have been the two principal lawyers involved in this area to --
Are they here? 1837 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
They're not here today, no, they're not, ma'am. But we will prepare a response for you by next Wednesday, if that's appropriate.
Well, I think this is a very important issue. And when you talk to your assistants, I think that I would ask you that they consult with Mr. Erekson, Mr. Auerbach, Mr. Shapiro, and Mr. McPherson of our staff before the adoption of the proposed FY '02 budget.
You indicate in your testimony that you will be adding six staff for the Law Department for the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative. What will this additional staff be doing for the NTI Program?
The Law Department has already undertaken a number of steps, and we have actually on a weekly basis have been meeting. We have at this point about 12 lawyers that have been actively involved in the NTI. What we have done, starting at the beginning of last year, was first to contact other cities, from Baltimore to San Francisco, that have 1838 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET had significant code enforcement successes. We've also been in contact with states and have been in the process of drafting proposed legislation -- for instance, the kind of legislation that would allow the City to have an enhanced and a more rapid way of taking blighted property by eminent domain. So the Law Department will be analyzing and developing legislation both locally and at the State level in order to support those blight initiatives. We have also -- the current Code Enforcement Unit, as I believe most members of this body are aware, is significantly busy just with the day-to-day enforcement activities and the servicing particularly of Licenses and Inspections. It was our expectation that particularly if there's going to be designations of blighted property, if there's going to be more cease-and-desist orders, that that kind of servicing would require significantly more legal services. We have contacted, in fact, the new President Judge in order to look at the potential 1839 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET of creating a Nuisance Court, and in that case, we would have our lawyers specifically there to work with particularly Licenses and Inspections and the Health Department. We have also began the drafting of community and public awareness documents which really are focused at centralizing any kinds of nuisance or neighborhood complaints that people may have -- whether it be, you know, high grass, whether it's music blaring, whether it's skateboarders. Whatever kinds of different nuisances that are impacting any particular neighborhood, we've started the draft of a handbook that allows people to have kind of a one-stop shop for any City services aimed at that area. We have also begun a training program for Licenses and Inspections between the Law Department and L&I. The idea being that we want to make sure that we don't create the potential for any civil rights violations and that the L&I staff have a very clear understanding of what their obligations and responsibilities are when they're going to enter a cease-and-desist order or 1840 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET to undertake some other kind of police or other enforcement action. We have -- I think -- we've worked very hard with the -- with Pat Smith and the rest of the Mayor's Office that are involved in this area in order to assist them in either drafting plans for any kind of legal challenges that we might ultimately have as a result of this, and also we're -- we've also had to work, obviously, on the legislative side and also on the bond issuance. That's the --
Well, from your testimony, I am assuming that new legislation would require City Council action, would it not?
And when would you plan to involve City Council's technical staff to work through the legislation that you're talking about?
On those issues, I typically would look for guidance from the Administration since the Administration -- and when I say "the Administration," I mean the Mayor's Office and Pat Smith and Joyce Wilkerson, 1841 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET because they -- we are typically asked to draft any particular piece of legislation, but in terms of timing, we would really look to the Mayor's Office for that.
Well, I will tell you, City Council better get involved -- sooner than later. And you're talking about legislation. We also have excellent attorneys on our technical staff who may be able to help you in some way, shape, or form in the preparation of this very complicated issue. And so I am merely suggesting to you that you take advantage of that. And if you don't. . . I just am very fearful to tell you that we're in the dark and we don't appreciate it. The Chair recognizes Councilman Clarke.
Thank you, Madam Chair. With respects to the question that the Chair asked about the NTI initiatives and your involvement, you referenced Baltimore as one of the models that you were looking at. Can you tell me what the Baltimore model calls for specifically. I understand it's called "Quick 1842 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Take"?
Well, if you're talking about the eminent domain proceedings, that's correct.
We were looking at Baltimore on a couple of different fronts and then we looked at San Francisco on another front. Baltimore had a couple of things that we were interested in, and one of them is the accelerated ability -- right now, for instance, it can take us as much as two years to get a blight designation to get everything from start to finish. If we were to see a block or two or three that needed to be -- to have a blight designation and for us to be able to take it by eminent domain or otherwise. Baltimore has reduced that time to, as I understand it, to less than six months on the outside. Similarly, Illinois has a state statute that allows a city or a municipality to take property on that kind of expedited basis as well. Baltimore also had started to do -- increase their ability to fine people, you know, 1843 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET nuisance. For instance, a landlord that continues to engage in illegal conduct when they're -- and when I say "illegal conduct," for instance, they don't fix the water, things that affect a renter. They ended up implementing an accelerated fine system so that a frequent flyer that is a frequent violator of their regulations is fined more and more money. We have a limitation on the amount that can fined here in Philadelphia, which is $300, and we felt that the use of a higher number which is very similar to Baltimore's is something we could use.
Does Baltimore have a redevelopment authority similar to ours?
I believe they do, but I don't know their charter, and I don't know the precise integration between them and their city government.
All right. Who specifically is working on that initiative in your office? 'Cause I have some issues.
I've done some 1844 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET research on some of the acquisition ordinances across the State, and we were actually thinking about doing something here.
The two people principally responsible would be Louis Rossman and Cheryl Gaston.
All right, one last question. About a week and a half ago or two weeks ago, I asked you to tabulate certain out-source fees associated with a certain election. Have you gotten --
I believe we -- I believe we did a response, and it's on my desk. I can probably tell you the number off the top of my head 'cause I think it's about 181.
And that's just the 1845 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Law Department, when you were working for the City Commissioner's Office?
On behalf -- representing the City Commissioners, and that was and outside counsel that was hired by the Law Department.
And it was also -- and I understand it's not your jurisdiction, but there was also outside attorneys' fees associated with the Housing Authority's involvement in the case?
That we did not tabulate. We only did the Law Department portion.
If you'd like, we can also get the Housing Authority portion.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter. 1846 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Solicitor, I did want to comment on of the testimony about the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative and the new legislative efforts, which there is certainly a crying need for some new legislation in this particular area. I certainly agree with the Council President's comments with regard to working with our -- having, I guess, the Law Department and our own legal staff on the Council side work together, and I would certainly not compare myself and probably could not even be in the same room 15 between the fine attorneys of the Law Department and the fine attorneys on our technical staff. But I would also like to encourage that you may also get some additional information from the people who actually have to deal with these systems in trying to get or dispose of a property. And to the extent that Councilmembers who are fairly active in this area might have some opportunity to either share some information or shed some light on some of these situations, it may also be helpful. We probably all have our own 1847 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET individual horror stories. And to the extent that those issues can be addressed through this legislative effort, it would be helpful.
I know I have a number of requests that we can talk about later, but there might be a couple piece under the new piece for Councilman Clarke that's on your desk. There might be a couple further down in the pile that have my name on them, and I'd like to follow up on those. I mean, we'd all like to collectively contribute to taking stuff off of your desk and getting it over to our shop. (Laughter.)
Although, if you've seen my desk, you know that I don't need any more paper at all. On , you talked about the makeup of the Law Department. And I had raised this issue some years ago in a comparison of the -- excuse me -- staff complement and diversity of staff between the Law Department, the Public Defender's Office and the District Attorney Office 1848 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET just kind of as the legal community but different parts of the government. How do you feel about these numbers? And one, let me say that, at least from my reading of them, you seem to have done a great job in trying to make sure that there is a balanced representation in the Law Department. I know that it is always tough to keep people; there are so many other exciting things and lucrative that people could be doing, but I think with you having provided leadership and direction and given up a lucrative situation yourself, maybe others will be inspired to come and spend a little time with us. (Laughter.)
And your judgment's always going to be questioned. (Laughter.)
Councilman, I actually am disappointed with the job -- with the success 1849 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET at least that we have been able to do, not with the effort, but rather, with the results. I am -- we have -- I tried very hard, for instance, and if Councilman Ortiz was here, I know he would ask me how many Hispanic attorneys are now on staff and how many were there a year ago and how many were there two years before. And the one thing I will tell you is that I am disappointed on that front, and not because of the lack of effort, but because of the lack of results. We have -- a year ago, literally a year ago, there was zero; there are now three Hispanic attorneys, and we've got offers out to two more, so our hope is that we will have five. My -- that's way too few. I have tried -- we have tried to hire others and, frankly, have found it -- we've been turned down. I believe that we're -- I think I'm very sensitive to the notion of having minority representation. A year ago, we also had zero Asians in the Law Department. I believe our number is now up to three, including a Chair. So we're having some success. 1850 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
But the salaries were an issue. Many of the people that we want, we're asking them to take a 50 or a 60 percent pay cut. And -- so I frankly wish that I was doing a better job.
Well, if they are within reason and within, you know, the bounds of keeping Mr. Dubow happy, if there are things that we can do to try to help in that regard, it's something that I care a great deal about, and I'd be glad to continue that discussion.
Well, first you have to stop hiring my staff, and then I'll -- (Laughter.)
Just kidding, but if anybody has recommendations for -- whether they're attorneys, whether they're paralegals, whether they're other kinds of staff, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Well, let me say two things in response. One, it just becomes clearer by way of every conversation that I ever have with anyone in the Law Department that they 1851 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET continue to complain about the good judgment that I exercised with regard to a person on your staff, and we'll be the beneficiary of it. She'll continue to be nice to folks over at the Law Department, and so I do appreciate that. We'll continue to work together. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Councilman. Mr. Trujillo, on , you mention that there was a negotiated settlement with the Health Department and the EPA regarding the drinking water in the School District. Can you tell us a little bit about that agreement. And I only have two questions. The second one is -- I'll mention both now and then you can respond. You mentioned the expansion on of a Model Court program and Family Court. Can you tell us a little bit about? That those are my two issues.
On the School District matter, that I will have to get back to you on. I have Dan Cantu-Hertzler here, who worked on it, 1852 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET but I think we can -- I would prefer to have a written response.
The Model Court program and Family Court. You mentioned that on --
Hello, Councilwoman Blackwell. My name is Stella Tsai, and I'm Chair of Administrative Law, and I oversee the Health and Human Services Unit, which works in Dependency Court. And as far as I know, this -- the Model Court Initiative was one of the, I guess, happy manifestations of the Baby Neal litigation in that the courts and the agencies that work together in Dependency Court collaborated an effort to improve delivery of services from (indiscernible) services to kids who come into our care. And what's 1853 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET happened is that the Baby Neal litigation, as far as the City, has been terminated. As far as I understand, the court has continued to keep it open -- the court defense has kept it open for another two years. Judge Panepinto, who was the Administrative Judge of Family Court had agreed to install two additional model courts by Fiscal Year 2001, I believe. Now that we have a new administration in Judge Sylvester, I think there's some discussions going on as to what we will do. Model Court is an attempt to make sure that kids who are adjudicated dependent get services early and that they get fair treatment in terms of the amount of time that each -- the parties get together and they collaborate on a better solution. It's really the model, and ideally, we would be able to have these services offered to every child that comes into our care. And I believe that Judge Sylvester is working very hard to find a way to take the reform to Model Court -- it was a laboratory, essentially -- and implement them court-wide. So that's going to be a very tough 1854 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET effort. It's going to require the cooperation of a lot of parties, it's going to take a lot of courage, and a lot of time to get it done.
Well, we certainly applaud what Judge Panepinto has done. And certainly, it's been great, and we have done a -- you know, been involved a little bit with community courts in the district that involve youth. And it's just been great, and we certainly look forward to supporting Judge Sylvester to make these things a reality and to keep kids getting serviced. Thank you. Are there any other questions members for this group from members of Councilman?
Excuse me, Councilman, we can't hear. Would you put his mic on, please.
We have been trying over the years to increase numbers of staffing in City government. The other day, Linda Seyda said that out of 29,000 individuals that work for the City, 3.5, 3.5 percent were Latino across the government. That's a jump from years ago of 9 percent. 10 Now, as a person who's worked in legal 11 services and -- do you believe that a 1 percentage 12 jump in 20 years in the increase of Latino 13 employment, does that demonstrate good-faith 14 effort, or what does that say? 15
One, I think it's 16 unacceptable. I don't know and I don't want to 17 say that it's good faith, bad faith. I don't 18 think I'm the person to -- 19
But just give me 20 your impression for over 20 years. 21
It's unacceptable, 22 Councilman, it's unacceptable. 23 Before you came in, I testified about 24 my own efforts and characterized my own efforts 25 as, I've worked very hard to try to increase the 1856 1 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET number of Latinos in the Law Department, and I've had the whopping success of going from 0 lawyers a year ago to 3. We have two offers outstanding, so we may be at 5.
But when you walked in there, didn't it surprise you to find that there were no attorneys in there?
In a city where such a big population of Latinos exist?
And the thing is that you find that in department after department -- and you said you have now, what, three attorneys?
We have three, with two offers outstanding, so we -- maybe, if we're fortunate enough -- we've made a number of other offers, and I guess the difficulty has been, we've sent people to -- I think Donna, for instance, and our Latino lawyers have gone to job fairs. And we have done and continue to try very hard to do it and -- but we have gone from 0 to 3 in a year of me trying very hard to hire folks. 1857 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Paralegals? I will tell you, I have not concentrated on the nonlawyer side. I will honestly tell you that my personal involvement has been much more in trying to hire lawyers than in either the paraprofessional side or in the -- or anywhere else in the Law Department. I will tell you, I have not concentrated on --
But paralegals stay there for a longer time than usually attorneys do, so it might be very good to look at that.
And the other staffing that we have, because what we see from the testimony from the Personnel Director and so on is that there is really a total absence across the board in middle management and so on. And it's -- it's very frustrating to sit here year after year and listen to people and say, Well, we did -- we tried to do this and that. I think if you want to do it, you really are going to do it. And I know that next year, in your office at least, we will have a greater 1858 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET increase than we have this year. But I think I would like you to look at the overall aspect of the City, and not just the City Solicitor's Office, and see how we can begin to increase that number and not wait years to 7 advance percent. 8
I will commit to you 9 that I and my office will work with you and your 10 office to see what we can do. 11
And I will tell you -- 13 I'll say it again: It's unacceptable, I'm 14 disappointed in what I've been able to do in the 15 year that I've been there at a time -- and I've 16 spent a lot of time and effort on it. And I 17 really do consider it one of the failures that 18 I've had this last year. 19
Thank you. 22 The Chair recognizes Councilwoman 23 Miller. 24
Thank you, Madam 25 President. 1859 1 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Good morning, City Solicitor.
When you talk about the Law Department being involved in creating new legislation, or additional legislation, along the Neighborhood Transformation Initiative, have you at all thought about any new legislation as it relates to troubled buildings, troubled apartment buildings, and whatnot that are out there?
Are you talking about from the renter's side or from the construction side or --
Well, just from code enforcement, lack of code enforcement. A lot of these buildings are falling down, and to me it just seems like they just continue to just fall down and nothing really happens. I know that the State was looking at some legislation that didn't get past the Senate as it related to putting these buildings into receivership.
What we have looked at 1860 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET is primarily legislation at repeat offenders; in essence, an bad landlords.
If a landlord, whether it's an apartment house or whether somebody has or 30 houses and has a series of code 8 violations, ways that we can package that as part 9 of our both affirmative litigation and code 10 enforcement side, and then also, I testified 11 earlier to increase the fine amounts that the 12 City's able to impose on a frequent violator, and 13 you step it up the more that they violate. 14 So that we are looking at, yes. 15
What is the 16 history of these types of landlords actually 17 paying their fines? 18
Again, I don't have an 19 analysis on that side, and I can't really respond 20 to that at this time.
I'd be interested in knowing, 'cause just from an appearance, it just seems as if people get fined, don't pay the fines, and just continue to go on and practice as usual. 1861 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
I will be happy to get a report back to you on that issue. I'd have to probably narrow it down a little bit, but I think if you're asking what kind of success do we have in collecting the fines on the code enforcement, L&I fines, I'll be happy to get that to you.
Okay. And I, too, am also interested in whatever it is that you're going to put together as it relates to the Neighborhood Blight Initiative. And I think I heard you mention that there was going to be some type of new court, nuisance court, or some type of neighborhood court?
No, that is not done. What I testified was that we had begun to have those discussions with the Court of Common Pleas in order to decide whether it makes sense, particularly if there's going to be an increased code enforcement presence by the Law to have one or two or three, a specified number of judges designated to do, in essence, nuisance court. But no such policy has been made.
Okay. 'Cause I think it's important that we're addressing the 1862 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET issue of neighborhood blight, but unless we really address his as a long-term issue, and ten years from now, homes, houses will continue to fall down and cause additional blight into the neighborhoods. So I think we have to do education and prevention out in the neighborhoods so that we're not constantly faced with the same cycle of blight. We address it in the year 2001, 2002, whatever, and then in the year 2008, we're still right back out there addressing the same type of issues, only in different locations. So I'd also be interested in the information that the Council President talked about earlier today.
I appreciate that. And I don't know if you were here when I testified, but one of the other things that our lawyers are going to be doing as part of the initiative is going to be going out literally to -- and one of the things we learned from San Francisco is that our lawyers will actually be going out into communities and -- to view the community, not just L&I, ultimately as the client on -- particularly on repeat offenders. 1863 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET And we've commenced -- we already have the draft of a manual that I spoke about earlier, which is typical problems, and so we want to hear from community folks as to, you know, what are the most significant issues in your particular neighborhood. Because, for instance, what's bothering me in my neighborhood may not be the same thing that's bothering somebody in another part of the City. Thank you.
You're welcome. Are there any further questions for the City Solicitor? (No further questions.)
You're welcome. Next we'll have the Office of Labor 1864 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Relations (Break taken.) - - - (Proceedings resume.)
Good afternoon. Thank you for your patience. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good afternoon, President Verna and members of City Council. My name is Bill Grab. I'm the Director of the Office of Labor Relations. I'm here with Joseph Tolan and Delia Gorman, Deputy Directors of Labor Relations, to present the Office of Labor Relations' request for our Fiscal Year 2002 Operating Budget. The Office of Labor Relations works with City managers, union representatives, and their members in collective bargaining, contract administration, dispute resolution, and labor management cooperation. To continue promoting effective labor relations, the Office of Labor Relations is requesting $591,048 in the Fiscal 2002 General Fund Budget. In the area of collective bargaining, as you know, the collective bargaining agreements 1865 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET for all four major bargaining units expire on June 30, 2002, and we successfully reached agreement with two unions and went to interest arbitration with the Police and Fire. As the timetable in Act 111 allows, the City will begin preparations for bargaining for successor agreements with the Police and Fire this coming summer, and we will begin negotiations prior to January 2002. In the area of dispute resolutions, we work with the District Council 33 and District Council 47 representatives in grievance arbitration -- in grievance and arbitration, and we worked with the FOP and the firefighters in the area of arbitration. Finally, in the area of the Redesigning Government Initiative, the Labor Management Cooperation, currently we have committees active in the Departments of Recreation, RGI, Revenue, L&I, Health, Police, and the Airport. We are working with the unions to expand the area of the Labor Management Cooperation, and we would like to thank Council for this opportunity to present our budget request for 2002, and I'm happy to answer any questions 1866 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET that you may have at this time.
Thank you. Are there any questions? The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
We work with unions in collective bargaining, handle grievances, we work with the Law Department in arbitrations, and we work in the area of Labor Management Cooperation and the Redesigning Government Initiative.
Do you -- are you a policy office? are you a technical office that performs specific functions?
I was going to say we're more of a combination, where we suggest and implement policy. And then we are also technical to the collective bargaining process and the arbitration process.
Are you concerned, say, about the image of Philadelphia? If we have 1867 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET a labor policy that brings gets us involved in labor disputes where there's a question of fairness and justice, is that a matter of concern?
I guess we're the office inside, we're the inside. We work with 33, 47, the FOP, and the firefighters.
But, say, we're kind of embarrassed here because we have our different wash rooms serviced by people who tell us from time to time that we're paid less than other people doing similar work in private buildings in the City, we're working without a contract because our direct employer, a company called Colin -- I think they spell it one L. Maybe they can't afford the second L because they say, apparently, they can't pay the same level of wages that are paid by other companies when there's a labor dispute. Does the City get in and try to help that?
'Cause to the outside world, it looks like it's a problem 1868 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET affecting the City.
There is another office that gets involved in -- in those type of disputes, rather than our office. Our office works inside, with City employees, not with contractors or like the Convention Center. There's other offices that get -- there's another office that gets involved with that.
I don't think we're barred. I mean, it's just been -- our mission is to work with the City employees and City unions.
Well, you say your mission is the City employees, but not labor situations that affect the City? For example, it's only, I think, as a result of Mayor Rendell's privatization effort that custodial workers, you know, became non-City workers. Before that, they were all City workers. So it's a City function they're performing. Isn't that -- shouldn't that be a matter of your office? 1869 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
I can talk that over -- I do not want to get into another office's jurisdiction. I can talk that over and find out about it and talk with the other office.
Well, I'm raising that because I think it important that there be an Office of Labor Relations that deals with how labor performs and what the City's relationship is with labor in matters that involve City functions, but not necessarily technically City employees. We look bad. Who was that young woman on a TV show who used to be Regis Philbin, who said that we'll -- UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Kathy Lee.
Kathy Lee Gifford. She tried the line, Well, I'm not involved, I'm not the contracting party between the workers. You know, it's the other fellow, the contractor that pays these low wages. Now, to me, that tale didn't go very long, you know, and it hurt her very badly. And the City's in that same kind of position. We can't say, Well, that's Colin, some 1870 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET company that nobody knows about, that operates out of New Jersey. There -- a City function is being performed, and I think the City has to be concerned about it. Do you know whether the matter that used to bring many of us out on Friday afternoons during lunchtime in front of the Criminal Justice Center, the matter involving court employees; has that been resolved?
We do have a contract? (Unintelligible, parties talking over each other.)
Well, that's a good result. All right. Thank you, Madam President.
At sometime, I would like to suggest that you raise with whomever you have to raise the desirability of 1871 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET your office being authorized to get into any areas where there's a City function being performed. For example, at the Convention Center, there's currently a big problem that I think will hurt the City if it doesn't get resolved. Currently, in the food services, there are some kind of divisions that exist. There's sort of a front end, where people, as soon as they get hired, are entitled to medical benefits, but -- in what they -- I think they call it officially the "rear end" or the "back end," where the great bulk of employees are concerned that really do, the, you know, the preparing and cleaning of food and getting everything ready for service, that end has to work a certain number of days before they become eligible for medical benefits. And amazingly, generally, just before an employee -- this is what has been reported to us -- gets to the magic number of days which would enable that employee in the back end to get medical coverage, suddenly the Convention Center goes on a hiring spree and hires many more temporary workers and, therefore, doesn't need the older ones as much. So that most people never get 1872 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET to the point of even qualifying for medical help. Now, I don't know the technical question of who hires or who fires or who they're employees of, but it doesn't look good for the City of Philadelphia, you know, which is really charged by the Convention Authority with the responsibility for performing very important work. And certainly, in the City's judgment, it's very important, 'cause it's a part of our major effort in tourism. There ought to be a City agency that looks into that, that says, you know, we can't tolerate this -- somewhat like getting this agreement between the unions.
And I congratulate the City for its involvement in that. Now, did your office have anything to do with that?
No, we did not. The Convention Center issues, we were not involved in. We deal with District Council 33 and District Council 47, the Fraternal Order of Police, and the International Association of Firefighters.
Well, I just think 1873 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the City is lacking, then, if it doesn't have anybody covering this area, because then all kinds of problems develop, we get to a crisis, as you saw at the Convention Center, where our rate of renewals is probably lower than any other Convention Center in the country. You know, it's a very unhealthy, low rate of renewals because a problem was permitted to fester, and now we've got the job of hoping we've arrived at a solution and can win back the confidence of people who exhibit their wares at the Convention Center.
Yes. The Administration has been aggressive. They're trying to work out that problem. It's not just our office, but --
Is there an office of the Administration that has worked on that problem?
I'd like to they're "Mr. Outside" and we're "Mr. Inside." We work with the unions that are -- with the City employees, and they work with the unions who are not City employees.
Why can't we have one office that works, that does it all?
That's the way that it's been designed. I didn't design it. I just try to administer it.
I -- our -- our areas are the same types of issues, but we're dealing with completely different groups.
Yes. I mean, with different 1875 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET goals. I mean, we deal with different laws. They deal with the National Labor Relations Act; we deal with the Pennsylvania Labor Relations laws. It's similar, but we're not exactly the same.
But you get involved, don't you, with the labor boards?
The Pennsylvania Labor Board we get involved with, not the National Labor Relations Board.
But the other office handles the National Labor Relations Board?
If there is a role. The City employees are not involved in the National Labor Relations Board; it would be private-sector employees.
Well, I hope somebody from the Administration at the level that can make decisions is listening, because I think there's kind of anarchist form of dealing with labor problems, unless there are immediately the problems, you know, until a crisis develops. You 1876 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET know, unless they're the ones that we have with the four basic unions, but the City is involved in all kinds of other activities which deal with labor relations, and sometimes the line between State and the National Labor Relations Boards is dimmed. Sometimes there's concurrent jurisdiction. But we think something has to be done because what happened at the Convention Center -- just imagine if somebody advocated a policy that lost a single convention. We've had witnesses here that tell us that we missed a convention because we weren't big enough to handle it, and they presented it as a calamity. Yet the City kept very, very quiet about the loss of huge numbers of conventions that apparently were lost because there were certain labor matters that had not been resolved. So I think that the City has got to pay attention to this, or we're going to have some very, very severe problems in the future. Thank you, Madam President.
You're welcome. 1877 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you very much, Madam President. Good afternoon.
I too am struggling along with my colleague Angel Ortiz to get a grasp of the organizational makeup of the office. And help me along. There's labor standards and then you have labor relations. You're the Office of Labor Relations.
And to whom does -- is a representative here from the Office of Labor Standards?
I believe they report to the 1878 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Chief of Staff also.
I mean, I believe they report to the Managing Director, I'm not sure. They might report to the Managing Director.
You should know that a number of us share Councilman Cohen's concerns with regards to the employees here in City Hall who are not City employees but are subcontracted to a particular union.
And that's why all of this questioning. And we were indeed told by the Commissioner of Public Property that the entity to register this concern with was the Office of Labor Relations. And we're now hearing you say, Go to the Office of Labor Standards.
I will talk with the Labor Standards Office about it, and I will look into it and get back. I just -- this is the first I've heard about it at all. 1879 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Okay. And you will get back to us how? You will register what you find out through the Chair, please.
Okay, then. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. Are there any further questions of these witnesses? (No further questions.)
The DA's Office is next. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good afternoon and thank you so much for your patience.
You're quite welcome. We brought you a little sustenance so we can sweeten up the afternoon and fill up a few tummies with goodies.
So if your chief of protocol could take those and spread those around, that would be very nice. (Sergeant-at-arms passes around tray of cookies from Ms. Abraham.)
Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
My name is Lynne, L-Y-N-N-E, Abraham, A-B-R-A-H-A-M. I am the District Attorney of Philadelphia, and I am pleased to be before the City Council. I have already submitted to all members of Council and to the Chair copies of our budget statement. Essentially, Madam President, we are here to do several things. Number one, to thank you and the City Council and the Mayor, John Street, for the help that you have given to us in the past year. As a result of those things that you agreed to do last year and even the year before, we have established a number of new programs: We have begun to deal with a very 1881 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET serious issue on an interesting new basis, a Repeat Offender Unit; We have a new Cyber Crime Unit; We've really revolutionized the Private Criminal Complaint Unit, which handles many, many thousands of private complaints every year; A new filing system; A new training facility; And with the productivity loan, we've done a tremendous amount of computerization of the office, something that we are very grateful for. In addition to that, we are here also to say that we are pleased that we in the District Attorney's Office and the Mayor are on the same page vis-a-vis our budget. And I'm not asking for anything more than the money recommended by the Budget Bureau and the Mayor. The two things that we are interested in today are $478,538 for the ability to deal with some of the issues that need to be addressed if we are to keep pace with salary structures elsewhere, and I believe that City Solicitor Trujillo mentioned that in passing. First, to start salaries of starting attorneys in our office to 1882 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the same level approved this past August for young solicitors who are coming to the City Solicitor's Office; and, second, to increase for the first time in four years the money provided through us as a pass-through to victim witness organizations which work throughout the City of Philadelphia. These organizations are really tremendously helpful. These organizations -- and I have them listed in my outline by name. They are: The Action Alliance for Senior Citizens, Families of Murder Victims, Support Center for Child Advocacy, Women Against Abuse, Women Organized Against Rape, plus the Center City Crime Victim Services, East Division Victim Services, North Central Victim Services, Northeast Philadelphia Victim Services, Northwest Victim Services, Victim Witness Service of South Philadelphia, and the West-Southwest Victim Services. These victim advocates play a vital role in making sure that our victims and witnesses come to court. They visit crime victims in their home, they give them assistance at preliminary hearings, they come to the police districts, they 1883 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET accompany our victims and witnesses to court. And in addition to their many duties, the Pennsylvania government, which monitors and has oversight of these groups, is requiring more detail and more training and more service-related issues be addressed by these groups. And as a result, their administrative and training requirements are growing. And, therefore, we believe that they have funded -- have been funded at such a modest level, that this increase would be just very well received. So the Class 200 increase requested by us totals $171,755, which would mean about $14,313 per group. And that is an amount of money that's very, very well-invested for our victims and witnesses. We, as the -- as I indicated before, are seeking some differences in our pay scale. We want to increase our pay starting salary from around 37,200-and-something to $42,250. And in that way, we can attempt to make some small inroad in the tremendous disparity between private lawyers and private business and the City. And this would, by the way, not go into effect until 1884 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET November of 2001, to coincide with the new Bar results.
So that would be a total Class 100 increase of a very modest $306,783. And I'll be pleased to answer any questions that the committee has. ), our Deputy for Narcotics. And to my right Al Toczydlowski, who is our Director of Administration.
Thank you. Based on your testimony, can I believe that your concerns regarding parity and additional funding for the various groups that you mentioned have been addressed in the budget?
When you say "the various groups," do you mean the victim witness groups.
I'm talking about the Action Alliance and the victim witness groups.
They all have been included in the $171,000? 1885 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
So that figure has been included in the budget, has it not?
Yes, that's been included in the 400-and-some thousand dollars that I had previously referred to. The 200 increase is 171,755 for those groups. And the issue of parity is in the budget. All of this is in the budget.
So you are very happy with your budget as you present it?
I'm a very happy little person. The Mayor and the Budget Bureau have addressed it.
That's wonderful. We don't see too many happy people these days. I'm glad you're here. The Chair recognizes Councilman Nutter.
What a place. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just first to the Chair, I appreciate you going through that 'cause I could not figure 1886 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET out from the testimony whether or not an increase was being requested, 'cause I heard the opening statement and I'd also read the testimony, so there seemed to be a request for an additional 478,538.
That's correct. However, it's -- it's actually a decrease because of the nonrecurring expenses, the 631,979, but all of the money that we're asking has already been agreed to and is in the Budget Bureau and in the Mayor's Budget.
It's already in there, yes. We're not asking for anything above --
You were just highlighting. You were just highlighting, you were just pointing out that there had be an increase from last year, and this is what it was it's for?
Well, I guess it depends on how you mean by "increase" or "decrease." We are -- there are some -- nonrecurring costs. It's an overall decrease of 2.2 percent from last 1887 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET year's General Fund Budget, but that's above the base budget that the Finance Department directed that we use, but the Mayor and the Budget Bureau have agreed to that.
Okay. First, let me say that given some discussions from years gone by, it is now apparent that the DA's Office is up to speed from a technology standpoint, and you also have color printers now?
I don't think we have one color printer -- we have one color printer. Everything's back and white.
Okay. No, it's a very nice -- on the testimony, a great emblem. We had discussions a couple years ago, and it sounded like you were, you know, still dealing with file 18 cards and paper and that kind of stuff.
Actually, that is true. And we are -- because we only received this marvelous productivity loan last year, we are gradually transitioning from file cards. But, for example, our Homicide Division still uses file 24 cards, but we're gradually putting them on a computer, so we're generally pleased with our 1888 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET progress.
Very good. And I'm doing my best never to have any contact with the Homicide Unit, so I wish them the best in their computerization. Let me ask you a couple of questions about some general activities going on in the community. One thing that's been in the news a fair amount -- it's not a new issue, but there's been heightened attention to it -- is the issue of predatory lending.
And one of the newspapers is on a pretty good tear about this one. It's a very serious issue. What part of the DA's Office deals with that kind of issue? Is that the Economics Unit or someone else?
And what's been going on in that area that -- I mean, there was no 23 mention in the testimony, I know you can't cover everything that happens in life.
In a really perfect, 100 1889 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET percent perfect world, there is much more that one can ask for, but we recognize that the City has financial constraints too. And because Council and the Mayor have been gracious to us in the past two years and have gotten us what we need to do to become modernized, we recognize that good policy and financial restraint is required. However, crime changes, and we recognize crime changes, and cyber crime is one of those things, and economic crimes change as well. In the past -- I'll give you some figures, which you might find interesting. There were, in the year 2000, 14,037 complaints received in the Economic Crimes; and in 1999, 1,091. With respect to predatory --
I'm sorry, 14,037 in 2000, 1,091 in 1999, in our Economic Crimes Unit. Now, many of them relate to but don't only always revolve around what now may be called "predatory lending," schemes committed by contractors an so forth. We've also seen, at least briefly last 1890 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET year and perhaps a little bit more this year, home frauds, use of computers or interlopers to steal houses that are vacant from people who are in nursing homes. It's house-stealing. It's been featured in the press as well. We are obviously very concerned about practices that revolve around what's now frequently called "predatory lending," the subprime lenders. And last week, I went to a meeting at Congreso de Latinos Unidos in East Philadelphia to talk about the aspects of predatory lending, and I met with several dozen citizens who had been complaining that they had been ripped off by these so-called subprime or predatory lenders.
Well, tell me a little bit about the 14,037 complaints in 2000, the 1,091 in '99. What's your assessment of the scope of this problem. Of that number of complaints, how many do you think were for predatory lending-type activities, and what was -- how many were prosecuted?
I don't have that figure, but I can certainly get it for you, but here is 1891 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET our major concern about predatory lending as it pertains to today's reality. As the current State of Pennsylvania law exists, most practices that are engaged in by what are now called so-called "predatory lenders" are under are, under our present statutory structure, lawful. They are sharp practices, to be sure, they are reprehensible, and they are disgraceful. But the State laws that we have do not address themselves sufficiently, I believe, to the issues of the subprime lender. What we do in our office, when we find matters that are covered by State criminal statutes, theft statutes and the like, we prosecute, and have prosecuted, and have a number of cases open where we are investigating. We are also cooperating with the Community Legal Services, which is reviewing all of the complaints that are funneled through their office to see which complaints are civil in nature, which might be classified as "class action lawsuits," which might be classified as "criminal conduct." Because the theft statutes and the other statutes require us to prove -- have a 1892 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET greater burden of proof, and it's very, very difficult. And every day, we get more and more letters from various agencies, Councilpeople, legislators, and the like to investigate new aspects of alleged predatory lending.
Do you have any information regarding the results of what happened to the 1,091 complaints in '99 or the 1,437 in 2000? Have those complaints been followed up on, have there been prosecutions?
They are all followed up on. Not all of them involve predatory lending. There may be various schemes and frauds involving real estate or other financial dealings with mostly elderly, infirm, or indigent people of Philadelphia who complain that they have been ripped off by home remodeling, refinancing, and other people, among a variety of other issues.
I think there are about seven lawyers in the unit, seven lawyers. Mr. Deutchman (ph.), behind me, the 1893 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET gentleman in the dark beard and the shaved head, is the Chief of the Unit.
We've been searching throughout the government for a man with dark hair and glasses for the past few weeks. (Laughter.)
He can, Councilman, if you would care to, discuss all of the aspects of the legal issues. There were bills in Harrisburg changing the statutory scheme for predatory lenders, but it died in committee, without ever having -- or died, without ever having been passed. So that never worked.
That was actually one of my questions 'cause I know that from time to time, you're fairly active on the legislative front.
We were and are. We testify. 1894 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
We testified in favor of that legislation. Mr. Deutchman testified as my representative because I was unavailable, but he testified for our office that we were in favor of the changes, but whoever was successful in derailing that legislation did so; and, therefore, we left with the two statutes that we have: theft by deception, which is 3922, and theft by failure to make require disposition of funds received, which is 3927.
Okay. My last question in this area, and I think I'm getting ready to get the hook, is from a law enforcement standpoint and as the District Attorney, have you given any thought to either notwithstanding or given what -- notwithstanding the statutes that are in place, and if there are changes that need to be made but not have been made, you know, life kind of goes on. Have you given thought to what we can do, what we should do, what kind of message needs to be sent out from a law enforcement standpoint 1895 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET in the DA's Office in terms of dealing with this particular problem, the types of people who are being targeted for this kind of activity? What's the message that should be going out?
Well, I think there are a couple of things that we can think of, and we really should as a city and as a government think of this together, not just from the District Attorney's point of view, but as a city. The people who are targeted by these predatory lenders -- I'll call them that for want of a better term. These are the people who are bombarded by, let's say, radio commercials. One of the issues at the meeting was how many commercials that are on popular radio programs that talk about home improvement loans. There are millions of eyeballs looking at television, talking to these wonderful smiling faces who are going to rid your house of debt, you're going to cash in on the equity in your home and you're going to consolidate all of your loans and you're going to get those new kitchen cabinets. So actually, this is a much broader, much more pernicious issue than just the District 1896 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Attorney taking the stand. We do attempt also, in our own right, to educate as many people as we can. You know, I speak hundreds of times a year to seniors and other people who are the likely targets of these practices and advise them about what to look out for, what to do, and what not to do. The biggest problem that we face as a law enforcement agency is proving that the lender had criminal intent at the time of transaction occurred. And that sometimes is extraordinarily difficult, but we are successful in some of those instances, and we are working to alleviate all of those issues.
Well, if you could -- and I'm sure that a number of Councilmembers would be interested. If you could forward anything to the Chair that even in a small way would lay out, I think, some kind of game plan or strategy or your thoughts and ideas about what the City can and should do given the constraints of either the State or federal law in this particular area. It is something I think that's crying 1897 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET out for some level of attention, and to the extent that any of us have our various hands tied, I think if people understood that if you engage in this practice, we will find out about you and we plan to do something about it, we might actually save a few people from going through some of this horrible situation. So if you could do that, I would appreciate it.
I already have a memo in draft, and I will give you a game plan and strategy. The biggest problem is going to be educating the public that if it sounds too good, it obviously is, and the problems about signing your name on a piece of paper, which is then sold to somebody else, and before you know it, you're out of your home.
Right, okay. Madam Chair, I have other questions but --
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
Thank you, Madam 1898 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET President. I'm not clear like Councilman Nutter apparently wasn't. I just want to be made clear. As a result of what exists in the budget proposal for the District Attorney's Office, does it mean you will be able to raise the level of salary for the new attorneys? Do you have that funding provided for in the budget, which has already been approved by the Mayor?
So that you are confident that beginning in the fall, whatever date you refer to, it will be possible for you to begin.
We're not asking for anything more than the Mayor and the Budget Bureau have already agreed to.
Well, that is sweet news, Madam President. So there is no additional requests you're making of City Council? 1899 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Councilman, as I mentioned to Councilman Nutter, in a perfect world, I could ask for lots of things that I would really want to have in our office. You know, I've talked about witness protection. We have a truancy program in two clusters; we'd like to have them in all of clusters. There's a wealth of things that one could ask for. But once we have been treated well by Council and our mayor and we understand that we're not the only agency, that there needs to be financial constraints, we are satisfied that the Mayor has taken the major issues that we want to address this time, our victim witness program, which is essential to getting victims and witnesses to come to court and feel satisfied that the system is working for them, and the small increase for us for our starting salaries, we will be satisfied this year with that figure. In a perfect world, I could probably give you multiples of millions of things I'd like to have, but I'm not going to do it.
Well, the reason for our questioning is all morning long, we have had 1900 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET hearings involving different agencies, and I think in just about every case, the request was for money in addition to that approved by the Mayor. So we wanted to make sure we were actually hearing correctly. (Laughter.)
Well, Councilman, as you know, I have been here many times in this body and almost always ask for money more than was approved in the Mayor's budget, but I'm doing something novel this year and last year.
Well, we're very pleased -- one less problem for us to deal with.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode. 1901 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Thank you, Madam President. I have a quick question regarding predatory lending. I think your opinion on it is probably very key since so many people have made this a game of cops and robbers. I was interested -- I was not sure whether or not you were actually making a distinction between predatory lending and subprime lending; predatory lending being a practice that should be illegal, and subprime lending actually being a market, which is -- it's nothing we can do about it. The market exists because of the lack of access to capital.
Sure, obviously. It just so happens that some are also in some of the others, that it's some of one or some of the others. Obviously, there is a need for subprime lending. Not all subprime lenders are predators, as that word has come to be known. We are concerned that when the predatory lender gets into a situation, we want to be able to address it. We are constrained, however, by the current state of the criminal law of 1902 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Pennsylvania. And that's where our problem primarily resides.
I'm more concerned with, as I said, this whole game of cops and robbers that people are playing in not making a distinction between subprime lending and predatory lending. What is your view in terms of what you need in terms of being able to prosecute people, and what the laws should be, and what should be illegal practices regarding subprime lending?
If you wouldn't object, Councilman Goode, I'll have Mr. Deutchman come up, and he can give you sort of the bird's-eye overview of what he sees day in and day out in our Economic Crimes Unit, and he can address the minutia of it.
I'm not interested in any more predatory lending stories. I'm asking, what should be the law in terms of what should be legal in terms of subprime lending, and what should be illegal in terms of subprime lending?
I'm still going to ask him to come up because I think he's better able to 1903 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET answer that even than I am.
Good afternoon. My name is Leonard Deutchman, and I am the Chief of the Economic and Cyber Crime Unit of the District Attorney's Office. I'd like to thank you for having me here. Let me begin by clarifying that we tend not to see -- when we get cases that are -- that have been referred to as "predatory lending cases," they come in by way OF home improvement fraud. I can't think of a case that we have seen that has not been linked with home improvement fraud. No one has complained to us that they simply have gotten stuck in a loan that they didn't understand the terms or where they were told one thing about a loan and it turned out to be another thing, but that there was otherwise no 21 other problem. The predatory lending practices tend to be integrally woven with home improvement people who come in and simply don't provide the services. They typically sell a product or a 1904 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET package to somebody who has other debt problems, and they say, We can make them all go away, your credit card problems will go away, and other payments go away, water bill payments. And also, we can give you the brand-new kitchen you've always wanted. And then they get the check. Very often, the broker is the same person as the contractor. As the broker gets the check, cuts a check to himself. And on Monday morning, when the people are supposed to show up, nobody shows up. And then we get the call.
So actually, the -- you have not received any or many cases related to subprime lending in the small-business loan market or in the home mortgage market? It has strictly been mostly contained to home improvement.
I can't think of a case -- we have not received any complaints about predatory lending per se. The predatory lending has always been a part of a home improvement fraud scheme. And outside of -- it's possible that there is a predatory lending case that I can't -- 1905 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET I'm not thinking of that's other than home improvement, but I have to say that it's 100 percent home improvement schemes.
So would you agree that any legislation or laws that we put on the books on the local, State or federal level, new laws or existing laws, if we want to classify predatory lending as a proactive to actually go after those people who you're talking about, and the problem actually exists, then maybe we need to target that toward home improvement loans.
Yes. And, in fact, the two bills that the District Attorney referred to, they were two versions of basically the same bill 16 -- one introduced in the House and one introduced in the Senate in the 1999 session. Both of those were home improvement scheme or home improvement fraud bills, and both of them went a long way to closing a lot of the loopholes that exist in prosecuting home improvement fraud schemes. In ten seconds or less, the problem that we have there is that when someone does not get in a home improvement situation, the builder to show up on Monday, when the builder says 1906 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET they're supposed to show up on Monday, then the builder says, Well, I'm busy. And then there becomes a question: Well, how long do you have to wait before a builder with a -- or a contractor with a busy schedule becomes somebody who's simply never going to deliver? And the home improvement fraud bill 9 tried to close the loopholes which allowed that kind of practice now. It really didn't address the predatory lending aspects, the banking or the loan aspects.
So there's not necessarily a need to regulate the whole subprime market in Philadelphia but that which particularly relates to home improvement loans.
Well, I couldn't comment on whether there's a need to do that. I can just tell you, from the point of view of prosecuting the crimes that we see related to predatory lending cases that you've read about in the paper and that we see come across desk, they all involve home improvement, and that's really where our focus has been.
Thank you very much. 1907 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
There's also one other aspect you should be aware of, Councilman Goode. And that is when -- let's say on Monday morning, the contractor does show up and he brings, oh, $20 worth of paint and some paint brushes and a couple of boards and some nails, and says, I'll be back tomorrow, and never shows up. It almost is doubly, if not entirely, difficult, if not impossible to prove that he intended to defraud at the time that the contract was made, because he's already, quote, started work. And then it becomes a breach-of-contract suit as opposed to a criminal fraud. And also, these companies change names all the time and identities. It's hard to track those down as well. So that this is very, very labor-intensive, very difficult, but very problematic. So, obviously, we are vitally interested in protecting home owners. This is the one thing that they have in their life, that they now own free and clear, is their home. And it's the one thing that they're absolutely guaranteed entirely to lose by these practices. 1908 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Thank you. Actually, contrary to popular belief, I'm actually a member of the Predatory Lending Task Force. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Are you familiar with the bill we have before us? Mr. Deutchman, are you familiar with the bill before us in City Council?
That would be this one, the predatory lending practices bill?
And have you had an opportunity to read it, study it, analyze it?
Read it, yes; study it, somewhat; analyze it, a little bit less, yes.
Do you have any opinions about it? Would that bill be effective, do you think, based on your experiences, if it were adopted?
To be perfectly honest, Councilman, I really couldn't tell you, not with regard to home improvement fraud. I've been 1909 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET trying to puzzle through the relationship between the home improvement fraud cases that we see and this bill. I think that it's likely that it might dissuade those persons involved in the predatory lending practices who are also contractors from trying to ply their trade to begin with; and, therefore, it might be somewhat helpful in attacking the problem. I do think, however, that we're going to see that problem, even with this bill, and that we do need the legislation that we've referred to before involving home improvement fraud to attack it from the other end as well. But I can -- it's hard to predict the future. It does seem to me, though, that there are sufficient restraints on lending here, particularly the provision that it requires any anyone involved in what's defined in the bill as "a predatory loan" to get counseling, which is going to be, if implemented, a buffer between that person that the DA described, who has been saturated with the kind of too-good-to-be-true advertising that we hear about a lot of these 1910 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET loans. It's going to provide that buffer between that person and the broker/contractor who's going to be standing there with a fountain pen saying, Sign, and all of your troubles will be taken care of. So I do that think that it will have an impact.
Well, is the main trouble that which you and the District Attorney have described as being the failure of a performance, the not showing up for work? Isn't there also a good deal of bad, shoddy workmanship involved where there is a more full effort to do the work, but to do it in a way that's not very satisfactory?
I would say yes, and I'd also point out that one of the things that the two bills that we referred to before, the ones that had died in the last session, tried to address was how to structure a bill which would make criminal home improvement fraud, that would take into account the home improvement fraud defendant who does a little bit of work, or who does it in such a cursory fashion that you could 1911 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET no more say that they had done -- that they had produced a good product than that somebody who gave you a car without an engine had produced a good automobile. So those two bills tried to tailor themselves particularly to that problem, because absent that kind of legislation, the shoddy home improvement contractor has the defense of not having criminal intent. And as -- while that home improvement contractor might be able to suffer some kind of civil damages, might be in civil court on a contract action, would be basically immune from criminal prosecution because of having made some attempt to -- or at least acted like they had made some attempt to do the work.
And is there an ability to show that the total cost involved may be five to ten times the amount of a reasonable cost for the home improvement that's been provided for in the contract? When you add the balloon payments, you add the high-interest payments and all of the other fees, are there difficulties with that that can be addressed by legislation? 1912 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Well, the cost -- for example, there was a story in the paper about a woman who owned her house free and clear and who wound up in the end owing about $30,000 on the house.
If you're asking the question, Could all of this be remedied by legislation? the answer is yes. It can't be remedied by City Council ordinance, however. This needs to be addressed in a very effective statutory scheme, which will change our criminal laws to allow us to show an intent to defraud based on, among other things, the fact that the person got $25,000 but only showed up and did $200 worth of work. Or he tore out the toilet, the sink and the tub, and then never showed up, and got five times, ten times, or twenty times whatever the value of the tub, the sink, and the toilet or the ceiling was worth. But right now, intent to defraud must be shown at the time that the contract was entered into, that the person had no intent of delivering 1913 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET on the contract. The fact that he went out of business, that he was busy, that he was not very good at what he does shows judges anywhere in Pennsylvania that we cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant had at the time of the entry of the agreement a criminal intent to defraud. That's the biggest problem that we have, because we're limited in the factors we can show.
And you're saying that on the basis of the complaints the DA's Office has had over a period of time, these complaints are all, or certainly 99.9 percent, consisting of kind of residential rather than business problems?
So that the fraud that we're talking about does not interfere with the subprime concerns that may be exist or that may even be required in business-to-business relations?
If it does, we haven't seen it. 1914 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Madam Chair. How many of these cases have been prosecuted by your office?
I don't have a specific statistic with regard to home improvement cases, but they are -- in the family of cases that we have been doing, for as long as I've been Chief of the Economic Crimes Unit, and I've been Chief since May of 1998.
Well, within that family, tell me -- tell me what has been done to the family that is perpetrating this crime.
The cases are brought to us, they are prosecuted. We have a very high success rate. I can't think of a case that we've lost. The defendants -- are you asking what happens to the defendants in the criminal justice system?
They tend to get probation and restitution ordered. They very rarely get jail time.
In the period of time over the last two years -- and who then goes after them to make sure that they do make restitution?
The Probation Department is supposed to, and the judge, more importantly, is posed to. And we could probably have a very long discussion of how long it takes to chase after somebody to get them to repay --
If they don't make restitution, does the District Attorney then issue an order of arrest and bring 'em back?
No, no, we can't do that. What we can do is, we can ask the probation officer to ask the court to file a violation of probation for failure to pay restitution. It's usually the probation officer who finds out from the complaining witness that the defendant does not -- has not paid restitution. We also can find that out. We get to the probation officer and we say, Has Mr. X made 1916 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET his payments this month? And if they haven't, the Probation Department --
I'd like to see numbers to that. If you have them, forward them over to the Chairman's office. Because we've been dealing, and we're dealing in this Council now, with predatory lending. And we'd like to see what, if anything, is being done to these individuals, as you claim, that enter into fraudulent practices in terms of household financing and so on. Madam District Attorney, we go over this every year. How many attorneys do you have currently?
Out of that 305, how many of those can we classify as minorities -- African-American, women, and Latinos.
Yes, sir. Okay, we have -- let's see. We have -- let's see. We have 16 African-American males, 1917 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Asian, 4 Latino males, 21 African-American, 9 Asian, Latino females. So we have a total of 50 African- American males, Asians, Latinos. 90 -- sorry, strike it out. We have -- sorry, let's 7 go back again. 8 These are support and regular. Let me 9 just stick to the lawyers. You want just lawyers 10 only?
Okay. We have 14 African-American males, 5 Asian males, 4 Hispanic 15 males, 21 African-American females, 9 Asian 16 females, and 6 Hispanic females.
We have 10 Latinos. Let's see -- no, 14 Asian and 38 African-American.
Is that an increase in Latinos from last year or a decrease in Latinos, or are you just maintaining the status quo?
I'm just trying to 1918 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET remember. Do you remember, Al? I don't remember. So many people come and go, Councilman, I can't -- I don't know. It's always -- it remains relatively constant. And as I heard Ken Trujillo testify previously, we suffer the same problems. As a matter of fact, not only do I personally go out and talk to law students about minority recruitment; in fact, I had a date at Temple University Law School last Monday, but it had to be changed because of some other intervention. We also had a minority reception in the Mayor's conference about, what was it, four or five weeks ago, where we invited every person we could possibly think of to come and be wooed and wowed by our office.
Of the interns that your office hires every year, how do they break down by race and ethnic group?
You usually do your hiring from people who have interned in your office. 1919 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Yes. The -- well, most of our interns are volunteers, they're not hired; the greatest number are volunteers. But from our volunteer staff, a significant number are hired. We give preference to those people who come and volunteer, and we are always interested in making our office more representative of the clients we serve. But we suffer the same problems as the City Solicitor: our salary structure is such that --
A heavy concentration of our summer interns are minorities. We have special programs at schools. In fact, somebody at -- somebody, an alumnus of the University of Pennsylvania, as a personal favor to me, pays the salary of minority lawyers at Penn, hoping that they will come in, like the office, and we have 1920 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET offered those graduates now graduates jobs, and they always go where they can get 135, $140,000 a year. And I have to say, Councilman, I can't blame somebody wanting to make $140,000 instead of 37,000 a year.
There are. And to the extent that we can woo -- look, the people I have referred to, the 305 lawyers in my office -- to a man and to a woman, even the ones who have been there many years, can go out and make double, triple, or quadruple their salaries, but they do it for the same reason that I do it. I love the City, I love public service, I am not interested in making money. And I do it for those reasons; not to make money.
I think there are a lot of Latinos and African-Americans who feel the same way.
There are indeed. However, when you look at, for example, loan repayment, all of the debt that a person comes to 1921 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET a new job, the first job out of law school, you have college tuition and law school tuition.
Well, but you see, but there are differences. There are always -- first of all, we're not looking for lawyers, let me just make that clear. We're looking for litigators. And 99.9 percent of the Bar are lawyers, but 99.9 percent of them can't with walk into a courtroom, and don't want to walk into a courtroom. It's a different kind of lawyer who's a litigator, the person who can go in front of a court, who can really be a command presence. And I think Councilman Cohen's son has demonstrated that you're a litigator, not a lawyer.
And now the judge, that's right. And it's a different kind of person who wants to be a lawyer as opposed to a litigator. It's a much different jump. But it's not a matter of race; it's a matter of economics. 1922 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET It's very difficult to woo anybody to come to public service at $37,000 a year. And if Mr. Trujillo has a hard time getting them, we have a similar problem.
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair - - - 1923 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET (Reported by Lisa C. Bradley, RPR.) - - -
I wanted to go back for a second and maybe finish up with -- I'm sorry.
The gentleman with the dark hair and glasses, yes. It's my understanding that you were involved or the offices was involved -- I don't if it was you personally, but there was a recent account about a contractor. This is back to the bad contractors and kind of how we get into the predatory lending. You were successful in a contractor prosecution in this regard?
Mr. Hollerin (ph). That case is still proceeding, yes. He's going to enter a guilty plea in that case, to our understanding.
And out all of this, and I heard the earlier discussion about intent, you were able to figure out the intent?
Yes. And one of the unfortunate ironies in a case like Mr. Hollerin's case, the best way to glean the intent of someone is to see them do the same thing over again. So what 1924 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET we end up with is, we end up because of the state of the law having to wait for the criminal to victimize a number of people before we can make the case. In that particular case, the first complainant called us a few years ago. At that point there was one complaint. There was nothing we could do.
When that case mushroomed into numerous complaints, we made the arrest.
Do you plan to continue vigilance in this particular area?
Can give us a statistical breakdown or an analysis of the numbers that the District Attorney gave us earlier in terms of you '99 complaints, your 2000 complaints and put them into categories of somewhat of a general that we might be able to make some distinction between this kind of economic crime versus -- what are some of the others?
Based on my familiarity, I can give you an off-top-of-my-head, so to speak, 1925 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET breakdown.
That would be a lot of breakdown. Don't give it to us right now. Why don't you just give us a report.
Thank you. Do you take calls from the predatory hotline, predatory lending hotline?
It would depend upon the nature of the call. If there was something that they called about that fell within a criminal law that we could prosecute, yes, absolutely. Or if there was something that the police would prosecute, it might be referred to the police, to major crimes unit or the detective divisions depending upon the nature of the case, but we don't bar those calls.
Maybe there needs to be some coordinated effort between the various and organizations and your office. Madam District Attorney, I was trying to keep track of many of the numbers that you were 1926 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET giving in response to Councilman Ortiz's question, but it will be impossible for me to figure out what this is tomorrow, let alone a month from now. Could you also in that regard maybe either forward us a copy of what you were reading through or develop some other report that will be able to lay out what's going on there?
Thank you. I'd like to move on to another area. A couple years ago there was a major announcement about an issue that many people do care about. It does affect Philadelphians a great deal, and that was the auto insurance fraud group or announcement and some contact with, I think, some state office of insurance fraud or something like that that the insurers contribute to.
Can you give us an update on what's happening with that, what's the result of that been, how many prosecutions?
I can't give you a number off the top of my head, but I'll be happy to provide 1927 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET you with what's happened. Fundamentally there are two authorities, the Insurance Fraud Prevention Authority and the Auto Theft Prevention Authority. Both are covered in my office under the chiefship of Linda Perkins. We have prosecuted hundreds of cases of insurance fraud of the kind such as -- and it maybe more than hundreds, frankly, Councilman Nutter. It's actually been more than a couple years; it's probably been closer to maybe four years now. The frauds, for example, we take any fraud against the City. City employee who claims that he or she is injured while at work and he or she wasn't. Any fraud involving SEPTA, somebody who claims they were on SEPTA conveyance and they were in a crash when were not injured. You know, one person on the bus, 50 claims. Any auto crashes that occur where people claim injuries from minor fender-benders or non-existent injuries because there are non-existent automobile crashes. Anything like that, we prosecuted hundreds of those. On the auto theft prevention, that is also covered under these laws. Our thefts of automobiles have gone down dramatically, in part because of that prosecution and because also it's 1928 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET been a well documented fact that when the police department does COMSTAT and does its overview of auto thefts, it shifts men and women around from their department to concentrate on those areas where auto theft is hot. We have gone down from about 27,000 stolen a year to somewhat less than that. And that is also occasioned in part the Police Department going out to every home where an automobile is stolen or reported stolen and personally interviewing the person as opposed to when my car -- actually, when three of my cars were stolen, all I did was report it over the telephone. So that has cut down on fraud, too. As well as, for example, give-backs: A person who is tired of paying for their automobile payments and they have it arranged to be stolen. So we still have lots of thefts. We still a net exporter of automobiles and auto parts. There will be -- well, I'll just leave it go at as that. But also chop shops and the multi-state nature of auto theft, but those are the two areas that I think you're interested in and we'll be happy to that breakdown. I'll make a note.
Get something back to me. I didn't know that Crown Victorias were in 1929 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET such high demand.
Actually, they're not. But Toyotas, Acuras, BMWs, Mercedes Benzes, Lexus, all the high-end cars, Jeep Cherokees. Also mag wheels, big, big wheels are really big.
On average, what does it cost to prosecute first degree murder case?
I believe many years ago you asked me this, and we've never been able to figure out what it costs for this reason: One can prepare a case for trial and on the day of trial -- we don't know how much trial prep cost because we've never sat down nor could we ever figure out how much on a per-hour basis your time is worth. We don't do it that way. But let's assume we get the case all prepped up. It's supposed a three-week jury trial and we're all ready to go. And the defendant's lawyer comes up to us at the moment of trail and says, "My client wants to negotiate something with the prosecution. And we've never -- 1930 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
I understand that. I'm talking about they don't negotiate or decide not to. It just goes.
Hard to say because we don't know what court time is worth, what the court officer's time is worth, what the judge's time is worth. For us, we've done that either.
I wasn't talking in the entire universe of people involved in the case. I was speaking more from the District Attorney side.
The cost -- I mean, some are known things. I mean you have an attorney or two that work on the case. You have either your experts and other resources I guess you have to put together to make it all -- I mean, those things are quantifiable. You have to pay these people, some of them for their time.
Actually, Councilman, we've never done -- I don't know, to us, what the benefit of knowing how much it is for my time to go prosecute a case where someone hit you over the head or killed somebody. I think what happens is that our lawyers carry lots of cases at one time. It's 1931 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET difficult even to do that, but I'm not sure to what purpose. We are not attempting to put a value on preparation. I suppose we -- we could tell you how much we pay an expert witness because that's submitted to the court or there's bill. I don't know how we do attorney time. I don't know how to do that.
I guess, I asked in the context of we were here, as Councilman Cohen mentioned, earlier today there was a lot of discussion around court-appointed counsel. Obviously, there is a dollar amount set.
Well, I guess my understanding from earlier was that there's flat fee for the case and then there might be this other fee for how much time you're in court and how much time you're out of court.
I think there's out of court time and there's in court time. There's tow different layers of costs, but you see, they're paid on a per hour basis. And sometimes there's a cap placed on a case with the Court at his or her 1932 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET discretion allowing additional fees and costs. But we don't pay salaries by the hour, so it's hard to figure out.
Most of the government people don't work on a salary. I guess more in the realm of just trying to figure out how do you run an efficient office. I'm making no 9 comment as to whether the office is efficient or not. I have no way of knowing. Other departments and agencies of the government generally can tell us what it costs the citizens to provide that particular service. I think the Streets Commissioner can probably tell us what it cost to either fill a pothole, pick up trash. The Recreation Department can tell us what it costs generally to run a recreation center, something like that. So as we talk about either court-appointed counsel, what's going on in the courts, what the Public Defender does and how we value their particular time. I mean everyone's time and effort and resources and what you have to put into a case has a value. Unless we've determined that we just spend whatever it takes and figure it out in the next budget year. 1933 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
I mean, I really don't think we're capable of doing that. For the very simple reason that we'd have require that attorney or those attorneys to keep detailed records of his or her minutes or hours for every case and then carefully keep those records from the time that he or she is assigned, the prep time, the trial time, the post-verdict motions, the pretrial motions, the in-court motions, the motion in lumina, the sentence, the post-verdict motions, the habeas corpus. We just don't do that. And frankly, I have to honest, that since the -- the benefit to a salaried employee like the benefit of having a public defender is that you pay a base salary. You don't have to worry about per diems or hours of work. I have to tell you frankly from my own experience of sitting on the bench, lawyers who try cases, besides never mind the difference of level of competence and capability of an attorney, which we can talk about some other time.
Lawyers frequently put in for more money than the court could or would pay. 1934 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET In a complex homicide. Look, if you have two homicide cases, they're never really alike. A particular client can give an attorney fits, make him or her crazy, cause him all kinds of hours of work. Where another defendant charged with relatively the same or similar events might just sail through, puts on his or her confidence in the lawyer. The same result was obtained but without all the storm and drom. But we don't do that and we can't -- I just asked Mr. Toczylowski could we do that. He said, no, we can't because we have no way of doing that without tasking the lawyer to say from the moment you get in a case start keeping records, but that won't give you any insight into any other case.
Homicides, 269? And were all of those somewhere in the charging process or somewhere as the case moves along, I guess in those kinds of cases you have to decide whether to seek the death penalty? 1935 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
You mean how many times does the jury bring back a death penalty?
No. How many times was the person -- you charge for a death penalty, it doesn't always mean that's what they get, right?
You man how many times you gave a notice that we might seek the death penalty?
Last year, 68 cases with approved for the possible seeking of the death penalty.
No, we gave more notices than that. You're talking about two different things. Let me explain 352. The Rules of Criminal Procedure provide that within 10 days of your arraignment, that means after a person's been 1936 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET arrested, they've had a preliminary hearing, the charges have been held over for court, you go to an arraignment where the judge and the lawyers talk and decide this is going to be a jury trial, a non-jury trial. The defendant automatically enters a not guilty plea. The lawyer says, "I want a jury trial," for example. We must by Rule of Criminal Procedure give a notice that we may seek the death penalty in this case within 10 days of that time. Now, that doesn't mean we always will, but because the Rule requires this 10-day notice, we gave it in 143 cases last year. That's a 352 Notice.
Very limited knowledge and information here. I'm dealing with the small numbers. 269 prosecutions, 143 of which you gave notice? 1937 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
And then somewhere along the line a decision is made to not go down that particular track. It's obviously still a murder case.
Correct. But additional information and investigation proves that the death penalty is not appropriate for those cases. So what we had left was 68 finally got to the point where we thought we might ask for the death penalty.
At what point in time -- it looks like 70-some plus cases dropped from the notice stage to the actual 68.
Is there a point in time that you kind have to fish or cut bait, for lack of more articulate terms, and decide that you're not going down that path and you're going another path?
Actually, it can be one of several things. It can be the defendant pleads guilty to a lesser offence. It could be that the case disintegrates. It could be that there is information that we received from the defendant or 1938 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET from our investigation which indicates that the penalty not appropriate.
But all during that time, there's investigation going on and stuff happening?
Sure, all the time. Absolutely. Up until -- even during the trial, we can always find additional information.
Is a death penalty case more expensive than a non-death penalty case?
I think a death penalty case as the potential for being more expensive.
What happened in the 68 that got through all of this system? And then at that point, you've actually gone to trial, right?
Some were; some weren't. The greatest bulk of them were found guilty of first degree murder without a death penalty.
I don't really know very much about this particular aspect of your 1939 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET business, nor am I particularly advocating that the number should be higher, but I am trying to understand. If you went from 68 and ultimately down to 5, what went on and why is there such a --
What happens is, as you well know, I can't remember in the past years 8 that a judge has ever imposed a dealt penalty. 9 These are always jury trials. A jury listens to the 10 case. There are, as you know, two phases: There's 11 the trial phase which is the guilt phase; and then 12 there's the penalty phase, the second trial, so to 13 speak. In the first part of the case, the jury 14 listens to the evidence and they decide did the 15 prosecution prove the defendant guilty of the crimes 16 and all the elements of the crimes beyond a 17 reasonable doubt and what degree of guilt the person 18 should be found guilty of. In most of those cases, 19 but not all, the jury found either first degree 20 murder, in which case they had to then go on to 21 decide the penalty. So assume for the moment that 22 the jury came back with a first or a second degree 23 verdict. Second degree verdict has also potential 24 for life but there's no death penalty. If a jury 25 comes back with a first degree verdict, then there's 1940 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET a penalty trial where the prosecution and the defense put on the evidence as to the specific aggravating circumstances provided by law. There are, I think, 17, which the prosecution has given notice of before the trial. We have to give a notice and we have to check off or circle or indicate which aggravating circumstances we are seeking to justify a dealt penalty on. The prosecution puts on whatever evidence it has in support of a death penalty. The defense puts on whatever evidence they choose in the diminution of a death penalty. We argue. The jury goes out and decides for a second time. The jury's power is absolute. And in Pennsylvania, and including Philadelphia obviously, the jury does not recommend anything. The jury fixes the penalty in Philadelphia and in Pennsylvania. In Philadelphia's juries last year, the jury fixed the penalty five times at death. If they could not agree -- and remember, the verdict has to be unanimous for a death penalty. If the jury could not agree, if it was 11 to or 8 to 4, 10 to 2, 24 the jury could not agree unanimously, it was 25 automatically a life sentence. 1941 1 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
What were -- for the five death penalty, this was last year, 2000?
For 2000, I'll just give it to you this way. The first is Wilfredo Ramos who was 22, male, and white; the decedent was James Crawford, 36, male and black. Lance Arrington, 39, male and black; the decedent was Tondra Dennis, she was, 24, female and black. Daniel Dougherty, 25, male and white who killed Daniel and John Dougherty who were 4 and 3, respectfully; they were his children, both males, both white. Gregory Powell, 37, male and black killed Raymond Graves, 6 years old, male and black. Steven McRae, 18, male and black killed Kendrick Haskil and John Ford, 21 and 18, male and black. So we had three children murdered which the jury felt was deserving of the death penalty. 1942 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Last question revolves around the drug forfeiture dollars. What was the amount for last year?
Low. What was it, George, do you remember? It was about 2.4 million this past year down from 4.7 million about three or four years ago.
I'm going to give you Mr. Mosey to give you the breakdown, Councilman, so he can answer the question specifically.
I'm George Mosey. I'm the Deputy for Narcotics in the Philadelphia DA's Office. The vast majority of that money seized by the Philadelphia Police Department and we have a sharing agreement with the Philadelphia Police Department. The Control Substances Forfeiture Act requires that we spend that money on law enforcement purposes that are designed to enforce the Drug Act. 1943 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET So that money can only be spent in narcotics-related activity. We share that money with the Police Department in a way that takes the expenses for actually pursuing the forfeiture off the top and then the rest of the money is shared 60 percent to the Police Department and 40 percent to the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office.
When you say the expenses of pursuing the forfeiture, are you talking about the prosecution? What are the expenses off the top?
Preparation of the petitions and actually paying the salaries of the staff that we have on hand who actually prepare the petitions, who maintain the property, who do the advertising, who serve the petitions on perspective owners.
So I know we're dealing with $2.4 million, but a much more simple example, if it was a hundred dollars and your costs were 30 bucks, you take the 30 off and you guys split on the 60/40 basis the 70.
Actually, there are expenses incurred by the Police Department as well and they come off the top. So if you added another $20 to 1944 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET that scenario, our 30 would come off, the Police Department's 20, and then we would split the rest 60/40, 60 going to the Police Department.
After the expenses and the split portion, what happens to the dollars that the District Attorney's Office gets, the 40 percent?
We use that to pay salaries for law enforcement personnel who aren't directly involved with preparation of the petitions, those quote/unquote direct forfeiture expenses. So we actually pay salaries for the detectives who conduct proactive investigations in the division and the salaries of the attorneys involved. And the Police Department, they utilize that money to purchase supplies and to pay salaries as well.
No, it's our sound system. 1945 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Yes, we do have grants and, in fact, programs like the Public Nuisance Task Force are supported by a local law enforcement block grant money in addition to money from the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency. Most of our other grant money has expired, however.
What about the grants to groups and organizations, do you still do any of that?
Yes, we do provide money on a limited basis to community organization that submit proposals to the DA's Office.
Do you have sort of an accounting of that or how those dollars get spent, what's the program, how do you apply?
Well, we require that those organizations that submit proposals demonstrate that the money will be used to quote/unquote enforce the Drug Act. And we have, of course, don't require that go out and make arrests or anything like that, 1946 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET but they need to demonstrate that their activities are in fact related to curbing the occurrence of drug sales in their community, maintaining corners, even town watch operations.
What was the total amount of money spent for those purposes?
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
I wanted to clear up at least in my mind, and maybe in the mind of everybody, the percentage of help you can give to people who consider themselves victimized by predatory lending, on one hand you've indicated that because of difficulties with the state law there's relatively little criminal prosecution that can be successful. On the other hand, you've indicated that there are case that the DA's Offices has 1947 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET handled and in those cases has been a very high rate, maybe almost a hundred percent rate of success. Could you give me kind of a percentage of the complaints that come in how effective and what percentage of cases roughly could we hope that under current laws there could be some success of criminal prosecution? I don't want to have a rosy future or you're going to get swamped with calls because everybody will think every case can be successfully prosecuted.
Well, if I may, instead of answering the question with a percentage which I don't know if I can, I can tell you this: In cases where -- and again these are home improvement cases. We haven't prosecuted anyone for purely predatory lending, for anything that goes by the name of predatory lending absent the home improvement fraud scheme. But for people who have been involved in both and have been the victim of the home improvement fraud scheme, for someone whose complaint is that money has been given to a contractor and no work has been done or so little work has been done that virtually nothing has been done, the chances of obtaining a successful 1948 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET prosecution are close to a hundred percent. For those persons who complain that they don't like the work that has been done, we refer that is a civil matter and we simply don't prosecute. Off the top of my head, again, to use a bad metaphor here, I would say that we probably get more calls in the nature of shoddy work than we do in the nature of no work. But of the calls that we get with regard to no work, we take them all.
I think that clarifies the picture very well. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Madam President. I'll be brief. I'm very interested in the breakdown that Councilman Nutter asked for in terms of complaints in the economic crimes unit, but I need something more immediate in terms of how many complaints you received about small business loans in the sub-prime market and if you've received no 23 small business lending in sub-prime market, if you could, I would like you to document that as soon as possible. 1949 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you. I have a question I'd like to follow-up on, the contractors and the predatory lending. After involving myself in a couple issues where especially senior citizens and that's when it's really troubling when someone involves themselves in a situation and winds up signing papers that just take their life savings away. After investigating a couple of these cases, I found that the contractors involved had licensing to do business or work in the City of Philadelphia. Is there any information, possibly, that we could put out especially to the most vulnerable, a phone number where a person can check to see that this is a legitimate contractor. That should be the first red flag if someone would call and this person not be licensed by the City of Philadelphia to do 1950 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET business. Is there anything that your unit can do beyond the criminal charges that possibly could arise that if a person's acting a contractor has no 5 licenses at all? I'm just searching for something that we could implement to educate our citizens about involving themselves. At this point, I don't think they realize that they may be dealing with a contractor that's not a contractor or a person that has no licensing to even begin or do the work.
Well, in response to that, I should point out that of the complaints that we've gotten, it hasn't been a deciding factor as to whether the person who is being complained about has a license or doesn't. We've had as many complaints about licensed professionals, so to speak, or contractors as we've had about unlicensed ones. Although I think it's important for a consumer to know whether someone is licensed, in terms of what we see from the criminal side, it hasn't played that large a role. I'd also note that one of the things that I found attractive in making reference to the legislation we had talked about before that had gone up to Harrisburg and had just died without being passed, one of the features of both of those bills 1951 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET was t barred anyone who was not licensed from, in essence, having any right to go after any customer in a contract action. So if you were an unlicensed contractor and you don't get paid and then you want to take your customer to court, you simply couldn't do it.
Let's go a step further. Let's go to something that I think would probably interest the District Attorney's Office even more so than a person just without a license. What about a complaint against a contractor and you find that they haven't been paying any of the tax that is due the City, what could you due do that contractor? Forget the actual incident, you start an investigation, you find out that this person's been conducting business in the City of Philadelphia for just a year and has paid no tax, what could you do about that?
Nope. No offense intended, the City Councilpeople are very much interested in contractors and everybody else pay taxes, but that is not a criminal action. That 1952 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET would be, for example, L & I would report to the City Solicitor and the City Solicitor would do what they do if I didn't real estate tax. They try to collect it or they dun me or something else. But I want to make sure you understand, Councilman Rizzo, that if I'm a thief and I'm a contractor, the fact that I don't pay my taxes or the fact that I don't get a license is not going to impede my desire to rip people off. So I don't know that except for good financial management of the City it's important that the City collect its taxes, but it's not a violation of the statutes of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania if you don't your City licenses fee. That's an issue for the City solicitor, the Department of Licenses and Inspections.
If the City of Philadelphia then, is there anything that the DA's Office could do to that individual if the City of Philadelphia asked the District Attorney's Office to involve themselves?
Let's say in the real world, I mean, if the City wanted me to go after tax 1953 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET cheats and you want to pay me to go after tax cheats, I don't know that that's great use of our resources, frankly, because we're not truly equipped to on do that. That is situation that's best left to other department heads of the City of Philadelphia, not the District Attorney's Office, if I may be so forward.
District Attorney, the reason I'm pushing this is the fact that you describe a very, very difficult situation, how hard it is to go after a person especially if they leave the nails and the chalk and the other paraphernalia for 49 if they picked up at Home Depot and then they're not really committing any fraud, there's just a breach of a contract. I guess I'm just searching for something that could send a message to these people because you brought these --
The best thing as I suggested, Councilman Rizzo -- this is really true. So many people are gullible and vulnerable and they think that they can consolidate all their deaths and get some money left over and get a second mortgage, whatever they do, and get their kitchen taken care of. But they don't know nor can they possibly 1954 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET understand the technicalities of the fine print of a contract, plus the fees, the balloon payments, the credit insurance and all those other things. So my sense tells me that just like the Marcy Simms commercial, an educated consumer is our best customer. An educated wary consumer is our best defence against a fraud. But still, fraud will be permitted to go as long as people are willing to put their name on a piece of paper when they're not entirely sure what all the fine print means. That's why we've been talking to CLS about how Community Legal Services and our office can perhaps help to educate consumers. It's like holding somebody's hand. We have all kinds of frauds and things happening in Philadelphia because in spite of our best efforts, people still do things, even having been told if it sound too good it probably is, there are some people in the City who will do it anyway. And that's the sad thing of it. I'm willing to listen to anything that you might want to suggest, but I'm not aware of anything other than what I've said.
In the last week or so, we've all in Council been focussed on these 1955 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET budget hearings, so I know that something -- maybe the Chair can help me with this. The Administration just announced a new organization or a consumer protection arm of government or something to do with the consumer, and I would assume it also did something that would protect the consumer and I would hope that they would draw, when appropriate, the District Attorney into -- because I don't think a scam like that against anyone, especially like I mentioned earlier on our senior citizens is just --
We work very closely with the State Attorney's General's Office and their Consumer Protection Bureau. Plus, we would be pleased to work with anybody in the City Administration to alleviate some of the tremendously pressing and horrible situations that our citizens find themselves in.
I can't recollect, but I know that just in the last week during the budget process I heard maybe --
Councilman Rizzo, I believe it was City Council that passed a resolution for a consumer advocate.
Is that what I'm 1956 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET recollecting?
It was a resolution 4 followed up by two bills offered by Councilman Clarke.
So hopefully, that will lead to being helpful with this issue. Thank you again, District Attorney Abraham.
Thank you. Are there any other questions of the District Attorney? Thank you. I hope you're walking out of here as happy as when you walked in.
You're welcome. The Defender Association is next. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good afternoon. Thank you for your patience. Identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good afternoon, Madam 1957 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET President. I'm Ellen Greenlee, Chief Defender, Defender Association of Philadelphia. On my left is First Assistant Charles A. Cunningham. And on my right is our Controller Selim Tawadros. Also with us and part of our team I should recognize our business manager, Linda Kozinski (ph); our assistant controller, Christian Muel (ph); and my assistant, Christine Adler; as well as Byron Carter who is chief of Probation Parole and Alternative Sentencing.
Ms. Greenlee, the stenographer has been given a copy of your testimony. It will be transcribed in full. I would ask if you could summarize your testimony. We would really appreciate it.
My request would be for those extra District Attorney doesn't need because we could certainly put them to good use as we're struggling mightily to try to keep up with the District Attorney's Office in terms of staffing and retention of our attorneys to do our business. 1958 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET I thank you, Madam President and Members of City Council, for this opportunity to present our appropriation request to you this year for Fiscal Year 2002. As you're aware, we are purchase of service contractor providing representation in the criminal defense area for adults and juveniles, providing representation to the mentally ill in civil and criminal matters, and to dependent children in contested custody matters. 5 percent of personal services asked of all City departments. I should mention, while I'm certainly pleased to hear the District Attorney say that she's able to manage this year a starting salary of $42,250, as you will recall, we will be in the third year of our parity plan and this September our starting salaries for those who are barred in Pennsylvania will be $36,500. So while I certainly feel that assistant district attorneys are worth 1959 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET more than $42,250, I certainly would urge the Council to consider seriously some changes in this parity plan we're involved in because to my mind there is no question that the work that the assistant defenders do is, as the Rendell Administration said in its party days, we are certainly deserving of parity with the District Attorney's Office. And I think anyone familiar with the work that's done in the criminal courts, in dependency court, and mental health court realizes that the quality of work done by the Defender Association is superior. In Fiscal Year 2001, we increased our attorney staff by 10 and our social service staff by 4. This was to meet our obligations in the model courts, in dependency court and family court and to have additional attorneys for the afternoon court and municipal court that was started in May. In October, we were able to staff that PM court that municipal court started. We had requested also for Fiscal Year '01 an increase of eight in our administrative staff. This request was turned down. We come now for Fiscal Year '02 with certain open issues that we 1960 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET are working with the budget director on. We have a critical need for additional administrative staff, which I'm sure the numbers I will show you will indicate that need. We have a need for 6 additional positions. We have also some issues 7 around insurance, health insurance and workmen's 8 comp yet to be resolved. And fortunate or 9 unfortunately, we will have to move our offices 10 probably within the next year which is going to be 11 quite a considerable experience. As I know you're 12 aware, Mr. Rause (ph) has designs on that block 13 where we're located at 17th and Arch. And in fact, 14 we are in the footprint of the new project that he 15 is planning, so while our lease is not up until 16 February 2003, we have begun work on attempted to 17 relocate since Rause is eager to get started on that 18 project. So that will be other areas that we will be working on with the Budget Director to resolve quickly. When we look at what has been happening since 1996 in this five-year period, the work in the Defender Association has increased dramatically. The increases in case load and work load are just staggering in terms of the amount of staff that we 1961 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET have to handle these. As you will see from exhibit B, in terms of new cases, we have had a 42 percent increase in the number of cases we have received. Our work load has increased by 32 percent. And our court listings have increased by 36 percent. The most dramatic increases we have experienced during this period has been in municipal court cases.
Those are the misdemeanor cases, which include so many of the drug cases that come into the system. We have seen a 76 percent increase in our case load and a 76 percent increase in our work load. In terms of new Common Pleas cases, we have experienced a 54 percent increase. These numbers are staggering in terms especially in terms of our staffing, in terms of the problems that we have in maintaining staff, not only legal staff, but also administrative staff which is another issue that we will be working with the Budget Director on because our starting clerical and clerk typist and telephone operators start at 13,500, which is not a salary that anyone in the City is even remotely familiar with. What this means is we have difficulty filling our positions and we have difficulty keeping people in those 1962 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET positions so we're constantly struggling to maintain full staffing. A good example is our paralegal salaries where we have difficulty hiring people because our salaries much, much lower than the District Attorney. When we're fortunate enough to find a good person and spend time training that people, we have seen several of them taken away District Attorney's Office with increases of about $5,000 in salary to do the same kind of work at the DA's Office that they're doing for us. So this is really a serious area of concern for us. As I mentioned, it's been another record-setting year this last year. And this five-year growth has been enormous. The heaviest volume of cases has been in municipal court where last year we had 72,751 cases, which as I mentioned is a 76 percent increase. In juvenile court, we're also experiencing long case lists with a very large increase in the number of sex assault cases. With the police doing a lot more serious review of sexual assault cases, we have a lot more clients charged with sex assault crimes. 1963 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET We are doing well in juvenile in terms of our grants and special projects. We have received national recognition for our girls project and we are working on a multi-systemic therapy project to begin in April which will provide extensive services to a hundred young people in their home. Our Juvenile Special Defense Unit, as you are aware, which handles direct file cases, juveniles filed directly into adult court, last year had a 52 percent return rate of youngsters who were returned to family court, which obviously we consider to be indicative of the fine work that is done by that unit. The Federal Bureau of Justice Assistance has applauded our team approach. I have included a copy of that article for your review on their report on the team approach that we use in our Juvenile Special Defense Unit and its success. In our Homicide Unit since we became involved in homicide in almost, let's see, '93 so it's almost eight years ago, we've handled 710 cases. 85 percent of them were designated as capital cases, and during that time period, we have had no one receive a death sentence. I think just 1964 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET from a practical point of view, whether you like the death penalty or not, there is a very substantial savings to the City in terms of cost of counsel when clients or defendants receive the death penalty that the City saves because of the excellence of our representation in homicide cases. In our Child Advocate Unit, we have seen the opening of the second model court. We are representing presently 7200 children. The number is down a little because the court is managing to close more cases and to get children into permanent placements much bather. This model court which began as an experiment two or so years ago has really taken hold. It is front loading services to children and it is quickening the response for children in crisis.
I know that Judge Sylvester who is now back as administrative judge really wants to take these processes from model court and have them apply to all the courtrooms in family court. In our Probation Unit, as I mentioned, Mr. Carter is here who is the chief of that unit. We have a high volume of probation and parole violation hearings. We are constantly reviewing sentences in order to file petitions for 1965 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET reconsideration for early parole. We have more than 26,000 different communications last year around our clients in state and county prisons, with them and with their families and others concerned. And our intermediate punish section of Mr. Carter's unit, we review all felony cases after preliminary hearing, about 500 a month, to see if they are appropriate for alternatives. This unit has worked extremely hard with the other players of the system, the Department of Health, the DA, Probation and the other players, to work at establishing alternative placements for those in custody. This also a very important financial situation for the City because not only does treatment work, but treatment is much less expensive than keeping someone in prison. At the present time, the prison has a population of 7300 which is the highest it has ever been. When we had a cap just two or three years ago, the population was expected to not exceed 5600. So we at present have 1700 more inmates than the prisons were intended to hold, which is a problem in and of itself and represents a pending crisis, I think, for the City in terms of management. But we are striving mightily to try to 1966 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET get out of prison those who have been paroled. We have right now a hundred clients sitting in jail who have already been paroled, but they cannot get into a program because the City has not put up the money for the beds that they might go to. We are in a freeze situation at this point in time and we cannot get these folks out except at the rate of a 9 month. So this backlog is continuing and continuing 10 and adding to the overcrowding. This is one of the 11 areas of concern that we have and I think it's a 12 serious matter of concern for the City what is 13 happening with the prisons and what the costs are to 14 the City. 15 Also, in dependency court, one of our 16 areas of concern is the report from Philadelphia's 17 Public Interest Bar and Advocacy Community, which is 18 just coming out this week and probably will be printed and distributed, there is a serious shortage of judges in family court to handle dependency cases. There are long lists and private counsel is not paid sufficiently to induce them to work on dependency cases. So there is a serious situation that is growing in dependency court in those areas. We are also concerned as to the 1967 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET treatment of our mentally ill clients, many of whom are staying in jail much longer periods of time than they should because there are no treatment facilities available. This is something that we have been working on without a lot of success in terms of the Director of Social Services to try to make more beds available to try to get more beds at Norristown and to find other facilities where those who are mentally ill can be treated and not simply kept in jail much longer than those who are not mentally ill. We are concerned also about our staffing, our internal staffing, about salaries, as I mentioned, sufficient to attract and retain staff, especially our administrative staff. And we are working on a parity plan for that and we will obviously have to do something in terms of salaries for our attorneys. We have seen a very serious drop in the number of applicants this year for attorney positions. Routinely three or four years ago, we would get 7 or 800 applicants. We were down to about to about a hundred this year. I think this poses a serious problem.
And it's not, I think, because of lack of good will, of people willing to 1968 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET do public interest work, but young people coming out of law school with law school debt and college debt piling one on top of the other just can't afford to work for the salaries that we are able to pay them. As I mentioned, our stating salary is thirty-six five this September. In Fiscal Year 2003, we will be in the fourth year of our parity plan and our salary will be thirty-seven two at that time. So we are managing -- if the District Attorney can do what she says, and I know she's a women of her word, I'm sure she can give those increases this year, we are falling black to a position of second class citizens in a system that requires a vibrant and prepared Defender Association where we're handling on average 75 percent of the cases. If we really believe that the poor deserve effective representation, the same as those of means, then we cannot have the system tilted so that the prosecution has all the resources it can possibly use and we are struggling not only for resources, but to try to keep the people we've been able to attract to this work. I note also the District Attorney saying that she received a productivity loan last year and each assistant DA has a computer. Well, we were 1969 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET very proud ourselves that we were able to put one in an office of three attorneys. We have not had much success in terms of pushing for a productivity loan. And while I realize that we are not a City agency which we all too well, unless we can be kept at the same level of resources, and certainly technology is one of those areas, then this system is skewed in favor of the prosecution and we are paying lip service to providing effective representation to the poor. This is really becoming a very critical matter that our resources and the resources for private counsel be at the same level as they are for the prosecution. As you can see, the prosecution is having no difficulty whatsoever in meeting its demands. And they have other resources not available to us, obviously, with grants and forfeiture monies and those that they can -- they can on their own afford to give a very substantial increase to their staff. That, of course, is one of our concerns. As I mentioned, our relocation, we are obviously very interested and we know you will be interested in our relocating to a place that is 1970 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET convenient for the work that we do which means it needs to be convenient to family court at 1801 Vine and to the Criminal Justice Center at 13th and Filbert. We have begun some preliminary investigations along these areas, and I know that you will be hearing more about that. I trust that you will support the need for us to be located in an area that is accessible to both of these places and not even think about putting our people on buses or shuttles to court because it doesn't work for our practice. Our final area of concern then would be in that area of technology, that there been some thought given to a productivity loan for us as well as the other players in the system to bring us up to speed in those areas. We have managed, certainly with the able assistance of my business manager and assistant, to put together a brochure on our services and a report which we will be sending to the Councilmembers for your constituent services, I think you will want those. Having said that and awaiting your questions, I thank, Madam President, for the time that you have given us and the interest that you and 1971 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the Members of Council have always shown to the work in the Defender's Association.
Thank you, Ms. Greenlee. I think you have stated very clearly that you are working with Mr. Dubow regarding the need for administrative staff and also attorneys.
You made mention of those who are in prisons have been paroled but the City doesn't have beds for them to go to. Are you talking about a halfway half or are we talking about --
This is for drug treatment. I'm Byron Carter, Director of Alternative Sentencing for the Defender's Association.
Yes. The client is 1972 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET evaluated by the City Health Department and also a doctor trained in addiction reviews that evaluation and picks a level of treatment. The client is then paroled to that level of treatment. Approximately 65 percent go to in-patient and the remaining percentage go to outpatient. The people are in-patient are then stepped down to intensive outpatient and finally to outpatient. We also provide services for them to obtain employment as they near the end of their addiction treatment. We find that there's a 44 percent improvement in the conviction rate for people that have gone through six months of treatment. There's approximately a hundred clients per month costing the City in prison costs approximately a quarter million dollars per month that are waiting -- that have been paroled by the courts, by the judges, and ready for release except the City cannot afford or will not pay for those clients to go to treatment. The beds are available.
And the City refuses to pay; is that what you're saying?
Mr. Dubow, 1973 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET could you check into that and get back to us, please?
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to explore that a little further. It wasn't even the original reason I put my light on. Give me the tail end of that again. These are people who have been released?
These people are prison but are paroled. There's nothing holding them except -- they have been paroled to go to drug treatment. The the only thing that keeps them in jail is that the City will not pay for those treatment slots. They often wait two to three months in prison before a slot will open up. The approximate cost is about a quarter million a month for those people waiting to go to treatment.
And give me some context. You're saying across the criminal justice systems a quarter of million dollars a month to hold them.
What does it cost for them to be placed a month? You understand what I'm -- I'm trying to make a comparison. I'm assuming it costs us more to hold on to them than it does to put them out.
It depends what level of treatment they go to. That can range from a cost of approximately $65 a day to a cost of approximately $135 a day for treatment. However, the City only has to incur those costs for approximately 35 days. Then due to the efforts of the Health Department and our social service staff, they are rolled over into state and federal funding programs. Therefore, it would save the City a great deal of money if they were released rapidly.
Yes, sir. We deal with approximately 56 different programs from here to as far out as Harrisburg.
Were these people 1975 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET getting drug treatment in prison?
Some of them -- approximately, I would say, percent are receiving 5 drug treatment. Again, the treatment in the prison 6 is called the options program. It's basically to 7 prepare those people for release to the drug 8 treatment programs. 9
Thank you. 10 Ms. Greenlee, as you well know, along 11 with a number of other members, I have had a concern 12 about the whole parity issue, pay issues, resource 13 issues as it relates to the Defender's Association, 14 and I think today, I can certainly understand if 15 you're feeling a sense of exasperation. In any fair 16 system, if one has been created yet, on budget day 17 if one side of the system is apparently pleased as 18 punch about what's going on with their office, then 19 the other side should be as well. And I think it's 20 fairly clear that that is not the case today. And you have different things that you do with your offices, although I still maintain there was a somewhat infamous exchange a number of years ago where I think the District Attorney pointed out to us that the DA's Office and the Public Defender's 1976 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Office has different interests. I naturally still maintain that you have the same interest which is justice and fairness in the system. So notwithstanding whatever, if you're in the third year of the parity agreement, I think all of that needs to be revisited, whether we're talking about salaries, resources, computers, you're obviously soon to be in new space. I would certainly like to see a plan that lays out all of those issues. And if it's not going to be exact parity, the difference should be so immaterial that it doesn't make that much difference. We had some of this discussion earlier with the First Judicial District around the issue of court appointed counsel and what's going on with that system and the fees. There are a couple different levels of justice around here. And for many of us, we might pretty much be in a situation that we'll get as much justice we can afford and not be subject to the vagaries of the system and just kind of take your chance and get in and potentially never get out. None of us would ever want to be in that situation. I'm not saying that we can solve everybody's problem or that it's ever necessarily 1977 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET going to be perfect. But it certainly can be a lot better than it is today. And I would like to see us move to a point where in the area of salaries, general resources, and ability to do the job, whether it's the Solicitor's Office, the DA's Office, or the Public Defender's Office, there shouldn't be that much difference. There shouldn't be a glaring difference between and among the parties because whether you're the defendant or you've made an accusation, we're all Philadelphians here together and everyone should feel that their day in court was a fair day in court and that the deck wasn't so stacked against them that they really never had a chance the day they showed up.
I couldn't agree more. I certainly WOULD support efforts to do that. I have had informal conversation with City Solicitor who supports the idea of equality among what he called the three law offices, the Law Department, the Prosecution and the Defense. I do not think that the District Attorney shares that view from comments she expressed at the time this parity plan was put in place. But perhaps she can be persuaded to think differently about it. One would hope so. And I 1978 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET would hope that we could make whatever efforts are necessary to see equality among the law offices in the City.
Well, Mr. Dubow obviously is working certain magic with the DA's Office. We've had in previous years very different circumstances and situation. I don't think Madam Chair she's ever announced that she was so happy so I think if Mr. Dubow can do that for the DA's Office, he could probably make you happy, Ms. Greenlee.
I know that he would do it if he could. But it was total surprise to us because we do not have the kind of lines of communication from the District Attorney's Office that we even knew about this news today.
Every now and then he needs a little encouragement. We'll be working with you. Thank you.
Thank you. Are there any other questions of Mr. Greenlee? The Chair recognizes Councilman Cohen.
Thank you. 1979 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET I like the atmosphere created by all those on the Council side who have spoken today. I'll probably be a little less reasonable than Councilman Nutter, but I think he really speaks for all of us. The only disagreement I have with him is I think we got to get away from near approximation and get to equality. One of the parts of the compensation of attorneys is the respect they receive from the courts, and everybody will tell you that part of pay of an assistant district attorney is the respect accorded to him compared to the respect accorded to a public defender because, unfortunately, many times judges confuse the attorneys with their clients and treat the attorney for the indigent person accused of crime. They treat the attorney just as if he were the defendant or she were the defendant. I think it's necessary that we get to reality on the question of equality of treatment. It's got to be a bit discouraging to feel just as you're getting equal, the bar has been raised. But the good part is that it's important that the bar be raised for you as well as for the other side because I don't know how lawyers can be expected to accept so much pay in terms of public 1980 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET service. They pay an enormous amount in public service on both sides, the District Attorney and the Public Defender. But I think the Public Defender probably pays much more because of the way in which they're treated by the courts. I just think it's essential that we resolve. And Madam President, I think we ought to be asking from Mr. Dubow -- and you're probably going to be asking him. I may just be anticipating it. That by next week we ought to get a report because I think this has got to be resolved before the budget is finally decided. Your needs are great in so many areas and I think they've just got to addressed. If we want to load up the municipal court with all of these quality of life crimes, it's probably a good thing then we've got to pay the cost for doing so. We've got to make it possible for the cases to be effectively prosecuted and effectively defended at the municipal court level. And you've got to get the increase in staff. I was very concerned by the public announcement on that report that you referred to and the family court.
It's terrible to have these cases wait so long and take so long, not only in the case you talked about do the prisoners stay in jail longer -- and that absolutely makes no sense whatever. And I would like to know who in the City is responsible for saying no? Who makes that decision, do you know? You deal with them; you ask for approval, I assume. You must be negotiating with somebody to get approval to release a prisoner on a given date to go to a particular facility. Who has the power, other than the Mayor?
I'm sure the Mayor works with Estelle Richman who is in charge of health services and the prisons.
She indicates that it's a physical problem and that they're working on it. However, over the last five years due to the early parole to drug treatment programs, we estimate the Health Department and our office and the District Attorney's Office estimates that there's been 1982 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET approximately a 30-million-dollar savings to the City as a result of these early releases, and that's not counting the fact that they're not coming back to commit crimes. Again, there's a 44 percent increase in not being convicted of a crime when you go through these programs.
It was tremendously short-sighted from every point of view, from the point of view of recidivism, from the point of view cost to the City. I just think it's necessary because somebody is missing the boat somewhere or somebody's not saying something that ought to be said to somebody to open the lock and permit the City to get the savings both in terms of reducing the recidivism rate and saving money.
It's a short-term expense for a very long-term gain, and a serious long-term gain, I think.
We're certainly putting Mr. Dubow on the spot. We didn't mean to do that. We have a very good relation with him.
That's his job, to be 1983 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET put on the spot.
Mr. Dubow, you don't have to come forward. Councilman Cohen is asking that by next week when you give us your report regarding the other departments that you include the Defender's Office and also try to give us some explanation as to the problem of the parolees being in prison and not having beds to go to. Thank you. Thank you very much. Councilman, are you finished?
Thank you. The City Commissioners. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good afternoon. We have a copy of your testimony. It will be given to the stenographer. It will be transcribed in full. Feel free to summarize your testimony, if you will.
Good afternoon. I am Margaret Tartaglione from the Commissioner's Office. I would like to thank you for this opportunity to 1984 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET present 2002 operating budget. The $8 million is allotted as follows: Class 100, personal service, $4,163,653. Class 200, Purchase of Services $3,044,035; Class 300, materials and supplies, $590,334; class 400, equipment, $52,784; Class 800, payments to productivity bank, $281,082. This represents additional $3,981 in Class 100 over FY 2001 estimated obligations. The above figures also provide funds for three and a half wage increase effective December 5, 2001 in the amount of $41,079. Please note there is no provision in the above Class 100 figures for additional funding appropriations in the amount of 613,223 for 15 required to operate and maintain voters records and 16 document imaging and the new electronic voting 17 machines. 18 Our rate of attrition has been greater 19 than anticipated. It is expected that over our 20 current number we will be reduced by additional five 21 key employees enrollment in the drop program by 22 early 2002. This will impact already 34.9 staff 23 reduction over the last 10 years due to resignation, 24 retirement, and deaths. It is imperative to address 25 these funding issues as soon as possible in order to 1985 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET begin hiring the staff, training and anticipation of the arrival of new voting machines. We have provided you with copies of justification schedules submitted to finance with our FY 2002 operating budget details which have not yet been adopted. Approval of our request for the additional funding will begin our overall spending of $8,745,111. The amount applied to Class 100 funds will bring that figure up to $4,776,876. Although the City's Commissioner has made every effort to reduce our expenditures whenever possible and will continue to carry out cost savings, we respectfully ask the Council to consider approval of our request for funding of 16 positions. This department is instituting sweeping 17 changes of the system by which the citizens of 18 Philadelphia cast their votes. We are forced with 19 devoted work force as we enormous technology 20 advances in order provide level of service to the 21 citizens of Philadelphia, we must have adequate 22 number of employees. The new electronic voting 23 machine system which is tentatively scheduled to be 24 placed for the 2001 general election, can not be 25 implemented without these positions. 1986 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET The priority of this department is to assure the citizens of Philadelphia their Constitution right to vote, to certify that each voter counted properly. Once again, thank you for the opportunity to present our Fiscal 2002 operating budget.
Thank you, Commissioner. Did you ask the Administration for the additional positions? Did you make that 12 request? 13
We have been making 14 the request in the last four or five years and 15 always been turned down. It's getting worse. 16
Mr. Dubow, 17 you've heard the Commissioner testify for the need 18 of 25 additional employees. She also referred to 19 the fact the new electronic voting machine system is 20 tentatively scheduled to be in place for the 2001 21 general election. How do we expect the 22 Commissioner's Office to operate efficiently if 23 we're not going to give them the help that they 24 need? 25
The Commissioner's Office 1987 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET right now has 72 filled positions. The '02 budget has that going to 84.
72 filled positions now. The '02 budget has that going to 84. One of the problems the Commissioner's Office has had over time is they haven't filled the positions that have been funded. One of our concerns about increasing the authorized positions is that they don't even fill what's in their current budget.
Excuse me. You're going to have to identify yourself for the stenographer.
My name is Bob Lee. I'm City's Voters Registration Administrator. In 1991 we had a total of 109 employees. Right now we're down to 72. The increase to 84 is actually positions I think that are currently budgeted, so it's not really an increase to make up for those that we lost through attrition. Even from the 109 down to the 84 is less employees. 25 Currently, I'll tell you, thank God we 1988 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET have that imaging system. We got that image in. We put in a new poll book out there on the street. We eliminated the need for our people to carry those heavy binders around. The process works. We are able to review and provide access to documents quickly, efficiently. This system in 1998, we handled 419 committeeman challenges in a matter of three days and challenges to petitions for state 10 representative in a matter of a couple weeks. That 11 system has given us a lot of increased efficiency. 12 However, the law still mandates that we keep an 13 original document. 14 Right now sitting in that office I have 15 300,000 voter registration applications that have to 16 be filed alphabetically in cabinets in a City-wide 17 file. We are in the process of doing that. We just 18 do not have the people to file them. We move people 19 where the priority is in order to conduct an election without taking any risk or without causing any problems of certifying and completing the count. The people that we're asking for are not only going to be needed to run the electronic voting system, they've been needed in order to allow us to comply with federal and state mandates on how we 1989 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET operate and maintain our voter registration files.
Mr. Lee, these are all Civil Service positions, are they not?
The 7 unfilled positions, are they Civil Service 8 positions? 9
They are. There's no list 10 existing for any of the positions. 11
What happens in an event like that, if there's not an existing list? They stay vacant for as long as the Personnel Department does not give a test?
I think that's right. I have to talk to the Personnel Department and figure out why there are no lists. How long has that --
Are they clerical positions, Mr. Lee? What type of positions 1990 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET are they?
They're various positions. They're called election assistants. Some of them are technicians for voting machines.
I'll have to talk to personnel about that. I didn't know there weren't lists.
And Mr. Dubow, exclude the that there are vacancies on. Do you 11 have a problem with additional? They want 25 12 additional, but -- 13
They want to go from the 72 filled positions now up to 109. That's what their request is. And I think from our perspective, we'd like to understand what they can do with 84 because they've been providing their current level of service with 72 before we entertained going above that.
We're providing the current level of service by not performing certain functions 1991 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET in our office that we need to be performing on a daily and weekly basis. That work is backlogged, it's sitting there. It hasn't prevented us from conducting elections or maintaining our files in accordance with law, but I'll give you an example. There are currently 300,000 voter registration affidavits that have been entered into the computer. They're labeled. They're in trays. Some elections are in alphabetical order, others are in batch orders as we enter them. We can locate them, they're not in a cabinet alphabetically. We get a list every week from the Department of Motor Vehicles telling us that 2200 people in Philadelphia have changed their address. We've got to locate that original affidavit, take it, re-label it. Our computer does the transfer. We've got to re-label it, re-scan it, re-index so that nobody thinks it's an error in the imaging system. In addition to that, this year under federal law this year for the first time we've done our first large cancellation of records. We deleted 22,500 records in January. Those are people we designated inactive in 1998. Currently, we have 140,000 voters designated inactive. Those people 1992 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET are scheduled to be cancelled in December 2002. If we do not get the 300,000 records in the cabinets before we try to do the cancellation of those records in December 2002, we're going to spend months going from file and tray and file and tray trying to locate those records. Updating the computer, thank God, our poll book is based on the computer and it's based on effort there. We can conduct the election, but we're not maintaining our files. And we need to maintain these files on an ongoing daily basis. We are severely backlogged in maintaining those alpha files.
One question I have. It's not clear to me. Are you down to 72 because you chose not to fill these vacancies?
They don't have an existing list. 1993 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
It's not your fault. Is it personnel that's holding up the filling of the jobs?
That's what I'm gathering from what Bob Lee is saying. You need these people, right? You need them desperately now.
Seems to me, we've got to get to the bottom of this. It's untenable to expect the Commissioners to do all they're doing with this depleted staff.
When this new system comes in, the central system -- Bob will you explain the central system and where we'll need these people. It's imperative.
Basically, the configuration of the system is there's going to be a central vote tabulation and reporting center down at Delaware and Spring Garden. There will be five do seven regional report -- vote transmission centers located in various sections of the City where at the close of the polls, the poll workers will close down their 1994 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET machine, print out the results tape that comes out of the machine and take the cartridge containing an electronic copy of those votes, put both of those items in an envelope. The Philadelphia Police Department hopefully and thankfully will still continue to pick those up and drive them to these seven regional locations where our employees will place the cartridge into a cartridge reader and the votes will be read and transmitted over a wide area network down at Delaware Avenue and Spring Garden. The vender has estimated we need just to operate to reading stations, we need three people at each of the regional vote transmission centers. If there are seven of them, you're talking permanent 16 employees that you can train and rely on that's 17 going to do that all the time. 18 There is going to be a central system 19 where we're going to have to staff that with about 20 five or eight of our permanent employees. We have 21 also included in this system an identical LAN and backup system at our warehouse. So that if this central system goes down, the votes will be continued to be tabulated at our warehouse on the backup system with only a 10- to 20-second lag. And 1995 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the votes that are not transmitted during that time would be picked up with a final re-transmission at the end of the night. It's a widespread system. It requires staffing by permanent employees.
Mr. Dubow, it just seems absolutely ridiculous to me that we should be spending hundreds of millions of dollars to get new voting machines and we're not going to have the people to actually do the necessary work to get the end results.
Plus, Council President, we will be printing our own ballots. The monies we spend on outside mechanics now, we are going to train our own people and -- this is all savings but we need to train these people before we get this equipment.
Let me just make sure I understand. Are you saying that there will be savings in other areas that will offset these increases?
We won't have to print anymore ballot strips to put on the machines. You'll save in degreasers, any mechanical parts. The contract 1996 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET with the vender calls for a two-year primary warranty where the machines and the system itself is warrantied for two years, but it also includes in the price a parts warranty for years 3 through 10. The City Commissioners will not have to buy any parts outside of consumables such as seals and other items for those voting machines for the next 9 years. It's all included in the contract price. 10 Our mechanics, the current ones we have here and a few more that we need will trained by the vender and certified to do those repairs. Our people will be doing the repairs and the maintenance on these machines during the entire 10-year period with interval support from the vender during the first two primary years. So there will be savings as far as there won't be any parts cost outside of consumables for the first 10 years. Our hope is that we will not need the number of outside mechanics that we've had to use to program these mechanical machines. In fact, we hope to eliminate them completely and rely solely on our City staff to do this. And we won't require as much printing as far as for the machine itself. The system prints its own ballot faces and 1997 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET you put them on the machine.
Mr. Dubow, I suggest that you sit with the Commissioners and whoever the Commissioners assign to go over this issue. I want a report by next week. And if need be, all of the departments that were asking for more appropriations or more money, we will have to get them in if need be and we'll just have to have another hearing.
Thank you, Madam President. I agree with all that was said. We've come a long way and it would be foolish to not see the forest for the trees. I want to thank you the Commissioner and certainly Bobby Lee. We all call him at the drop of a hat, and he always has the answer. Thank you. Let me ask you, for election court with the judges, do you have any -- or should we have asked the courts? Do you have any say in that? We know, for example, in my areas in the 18th District they skipped it. My people have to go to two other 1998 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET districts instead of being able to have --
It wasn't our decision. We used to have courts throughout the City. The 5 courts decided that over the last few years that the 6 number of court orders that were being applied for 7 and granted on election day had substantially 8 decreased, which they have. Therefore, their 9 problem was the personnel and labor and cost they 10 were putting out there and they actually decreased 11 it down to 12, I believe it is now. This year we 12 had a total of 4400 court orders compared to'92. 13 That's down about 800. In '92 we had 5200. 14
The courts were 15 here. I didn't think about it until I saw you. So 16 I will get back to them in that regard. Thank you. 17
I think it's 18 imperative that you get in touch with -- or Mr. Dubow get in touch with you or you'll get in touch with him, but I think that you have to sit down and go over approximately how much savings there will be. I think it's ridiculous for us to be spending all that money for new voting machines and not have personnel to give us the end result. Councilman Cohen. 1999 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Madam President, I'm very concerned about the fact that we have published our calendar with specific dates as to when Council intends to take action on the budget. I don't know, but it may be a policy of the Administration or maybe they're just taking advantage of circumstances. We've got a lot of work piled up and I just want to be clear that I would intend to delay our program because under the Home Rule Charter there is need whatever for Council to complete the budget work until the end of May. And with the PICA law in effect, assuming that their requirements were in order on us, it would only bring up the day forward by 10 days to May 21st. I think there's a lot of work to be done and I'm concerned that the Administration may be sitting this out, knowing that we intend, I think, by March 22nd or March 23rd to complete the budget and I think they may be using the time against us because there are a good number of questions we referred to Mr. Dubow. He's the point man taking all the hits for the Administration today. He's really a very nice fellow. I think the Administration has to be on noticed that we are going to be prepared to extend 2000 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the dates from March 23rd as long as necessary to get all these matters resolved satisfactorily.
And it's certainly not the Commissioner's fault that they didn't have a list to fill their vacancies.
They haven't been able to fill these jobs, I gather, over the last four or five years.
We will definitely see what we can do, I assure you. And Mr. Dubow, again, I'm going to tell you, we want you to work with these groups. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.
Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Commissioner. Sorry I got here late. I was in an office in a meeting. I did overhear some of the testimony, so the question I'm about to ask, if it was already asked, I'll yield to the stenographer's report. As a result of the last federal election, the general election in November and all 2001 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the problems related to the presidential election in Florida and other states, there was some mention, I believe, that the federal government is looking to set aside some funds upgrading voting machines throughout the country. Has anyone contacted you? Do you have any information that you can share with us? Because we have appropriated I think was it $20 million, $21 million for new voting machines, and I was wondering if you know of anything that may be coming did down the pipeline either from the Feds or Harrisburg.
We don't have anything. Naturally, anything passed federally would probably channeled through the state governments. But I think the key thing to remember is a person was asked what it would take to update the voting systems throughout the country. They said since we put a man on the moon, we ought to be able at least have undated voting system. And the answer was, you can but it will cost as much as it cost to put that man on the moon.
We only did that once, though. We vote twice a year.
It cost so much 2002 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET that's why we only did it once. (Laughter.)
I have serious thought whether if there is some action down there, whether there's going to be enough funding there that it would go across.
You know, the moon could be a good source of absentee ballots, we don't want to go there right now. (Laughter.)
Thank you. Are there any other questions? Thank you all very much. SEPTA is next. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good afternoon. Thank you for your patience. Please identify yourself for the record. Welcome. And begin your testimony.
Thank you. Good afternoon. Council President Verna Members of the City Council, 2003 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET thank you for the opportunity to speak this afternoon in support of the $63.5 million Fiscal Year 2002 SEPTA operating budget request and to highlight key initiatives undertaken last year. Included in this request, funds to leverage state operating assistance and the City's Phlash contract services. I'm also joined at the table today by board members Jettie Newkirk --
Excuse me, Mr. Leary. Identify yourself for the record for our stenographer.
I'm sorry. My name is Jack Leary, I'm the general manager of SEPTA.
And joining me to my far right is board member Jettie Newkirk and board member Christian DiCicco and also Frances Jones.
We just have to get used to seeing Mr. DiCicco regularly. The others are like household names to us, but we'll get used to him as well.
Difficult for you? You know how difficult it is for me? (Laughter.) 2004 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Last year was a time spent constructive reassessment to build on SEPTA's strengths in delivery of safe, convenient, accessible public transit services to the citizens of the City of Philadelphia. This was also a time that we evaluated our organization and our operations and made some very important changes advancing our business plan, restructuring decision-making paths, and establishing new policies and practice for the day-to-day management of SEPTA's complex system. Focusing on infrastructure, significant improvements were made to stations, customer amenities and track and power lines. A major escalator renewal program we launched. New escalators with installed at Juniper, Margaret-Orthodox, Pattison, and Olney Stations. While contracts were let for the replacement of seven additional escalators at City Hall Station, Cecil B. Moore Station, Spring Garden, two escalators at Erie Avenue and two at 30th Street at the Regional Rail Station. Our inspection and maintenance programs were revamped with the objective to sustain good 2005 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET state of repair for the equipment and decrease the time needed to complete repair and maintenance work. Also, significant accessibility improvements and enhancements were also made during the year, including installation of audiovisual public address systems at designated key stations, 69th Street, Pattison, Olney, Cecil B. Moore, Market East Railroad Station, just to name some of them. Our in-house resources also completed ADA upgrades at several Philadelphia rail stations, including Market East, Queen Lane, Chestnut Hill West, Forest Hills, and Bala. We implemented a range of route enhancements last year to meet the diverse travel needs of the marketplace within the City. Improving access to jobs remained a very high priority particularly for the growing ranks of newly employed Philadelphians. Routes 1, 14, 37, 68, the R, the L, and R1 Regional Rail service to the airport were all expanded to serve new growing business centers. Route 80, a new limited stop line operating out of Olney Terminal has significantly improved travel time for North Philadelphian residents who work in Horsham area businesses. 2006 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Our ridership today reflects steady increases, demonstrating the growing viability and importance of public transit serve service to our City and to the region. I'm pleased to report to you million more trips were taken on SEPTA in 7 year 2000 than in the year 1999. And that trend is 8 continuing this year. 9 SEPTA also worked very hard to develop 10 partnerships to build and strengthen the communities 11 we serve. We are pleased to be part of the City's 12 block buster showing at the 2000 Republican National 13 Convention and SEPTA received many letters of praise from across the state and across the nation commending the City for being such a gracious and attentive host. We were also proud of our participate City's Minority Enterprise Development MED Week Program and symposium. And our commitment to customer security and comfort let us to a partnership between SEPTA's Transit Police and the School District of Philadelphia to create a pilot Transit Truancy Program. All of our safety and risk management programs, including investigation in claims management have been brought together now under the 2007 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET direction of an assistant general manager for risk management. Many of you know Jim Jordan. And our general counsel has implemented fundamental structural and procedural changes within the legal division. Together, these divisions have forged a new working partnership to address critical safety and claims issues. We remain vigilant in disseminating information about safe travel on the system and we are resolute in our message. Our primary concern remains safety of all our customers all of the time whereever and whenever they select SEPTA to travel.
I'd also like to mention just a few key accomplishment that enhance the quality of life for our community and our business constituents. Automatic voice broadcasts began on the Market/Franford line announcing accessible stations and accessible connecting routes. We published an accessible SEPTA guide and have installed mobile data terminals on our customized community Transit, all 323 vehicles. Ten new railcars were put into service to support increased customer demand. And the last of the new 60-foot articulated buses, 155 have been 2008 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET delivered and placed in service here in the City of Philadelphia. Through the ongoing diligence of our police force, crime on the system is now at an all-time low. We proudly participated in the ribbon cutting with Mayor Street to launch Phase I improvements of Suburban Station and work has begun on the Frankford Transportation Center, a signature transportation investment project here in the City of Philadelphia. Our work began on the installation of automatic train control systems on the Market/Frankford elevated structure. A major track rehabilitation project was undertaken on Route 34 along Baltimore Avenue. Erie-Torresdale Station and Allegheny Station construction is now near completion. And construction has begun on the Route 15 Girard Avenue Light Rail infrastructure system. 7 percent, about half the rate of inflation while at the same time expanding service levels. These 2009 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET efforts notwithstanding, we are faced today with serious financial issue for the foreseeable future. Our budgetary horizon reflects real world concerns, including staggering increases in key expenses. 03 a gallon. Now, we use million 9 gallons a year. That's a $7 million increase. 33. Again, a million dollars increase. 12 Prescription drug costs have increased 125 percent. 13 That's an increase of $14 million. And nationwide 14 medical costs are expected to increase by double 15 digits, creating a financial impact for organizations such as SEPTA. Other escalating costs, such as the delivery of Paratransit continue to strain our limited resources. Compounding all this is the disappointing news that the Governor's budget submission does not provide SEPTA with an increase needed to meet even our normal 3 percent inflationary cost. Now, under state law we cannot present an unbalanced budget. With the prospect of 35 to 50 million dollars in increased costs, we must work to 2010 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET find responsible solutions to these issues by looking at all possible avenues. To increase revenue sources, increase our subsidy funding to decrease expenses. Some of these choices may be very difficult, including the possibility of a fare increase, the first in over six years. But to be responsible in addressing our financial situation, every option must be made. Definitive action must be taken if we are to sustain current City service levels and continue to strengthen the viability and the value of our system. Now, as to the issue of school tokens, we support Councilman Goode's effort to hold public hearings on this issue and we'll do what we can to help get all the facts on this important subject before Council. SEPTA remains committed to working with the School District, legislative officials, and all interested parties. In spite of our financial condition there are important and exciting new capitally funded projects that will take place this year, included construction of new stations, Berks, Church, and Huntingdon on the Frankford side of the Market Elevated structure, and the Market Elevated 2011 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET reconstruction project in West Philadelphia will begin as well as certain selected Broad Street subway stations.
I'm also pleased to announce that Philadelphia will be the host City for the 2001 American Public Transportation Association International Annual Meeting later this fall with some 3,000 transit professionals from across the country and around the world expected to attend. We are looking forward to showcasing our City and our public transit system and providing a boost to the hospitality sector of the Philadelphia economy. Finally, I would just like to just briefly mention our current discussions with the transport workers union, local 234. As we near the end of the current contract set to expired on March 15. The SEPTA Board and the management team remain committed to the principles forged with the Transport Workers Union. Our approach for these contract discussions is partnerships and solutions for the 21st Century. Our goal is to work together in partnership to find solutions and frame a contract that is good for our employees, creates growth and job security while at the same time is 2012 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET fiscally responsible to all of our customers and our taxpayers of the region. Council President Verna, thank you again for the opportunity to provide testimony this afternoon and the City Council's generosity and continued support of SEPTA and your commitment to enhance public transportation in this region is greatly appreciated, and we look forward to working with Councilman Goode, Chair of your Transportation Committee, and the other members of the Council to address some of these problems. We'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. Thank you.
Thank you very much. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you, Madam President. Thank you again, Mr. Leary. And thanks again certainly to Jettie and Frances with whom we work regularly, weekly, always. And again, to Christian DiCicco, we look forward to gaining the same type of relationship with you. Mr. Leary, can you comment on the partnership between the SEPTA Police Force and the 2013 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET School District on the Transit Truancy Program.
Yes. We have been working very closely with the School District. Our police chief is with me today, Police Chief Richard Evans who can provide us some of the details. But both systems have been working very close. They work together. They patrol the subways and the system. They identify individuals and return them to school. I think we can tell you exactly how many, and we have the details. Chief Evans can comment on that.
Good afternoon. My name is Richard Evans. I'm the chief of SEPTA's Transit Police. About three years ago, we joined with the School District in a truancy intervention program which we target stations once a week and we intercept truant children that are using our stations and we take them back to a designated school, designated by the School Board. Last year we brought 700-some children back a school. This year the numbers are about consistent. We expect by the end of the school year we'll have taken the same number of children back to school. We additionally started a program during school dismissal time. It's called Operate Safe Rail. We put plain-clothes 2014 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET officers on the elevated trains and several stations either east or west of the major boarding point. We invite school principals and vice principals to join us on the platform. The plain clothes officers identify children who are disorderly and we ask them to exit the train where the school officials are stationed and we introduce them to the school officials and then allow them to catch the next train home.
That's great. And it's been working pretty well with students not being left at their own school, at a designated spot? Do you know how they get to their own schools? I guess in the morning they would have to have transportation to their own schools. How does that work?
I'm not certain how the school Board handles that, Councilwoman. We turn them over to the school officials at that point.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Goode.
Thank you, Madam President. 2015 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Good afternoon, Mr. Leary. Let me firs thank you and your staff sincerely for responses to many requests from my office and let me thank Frances Jones in particular for responses to constituent service and community issues. I will say that I do have one bone to pick, though. I do have a serious issue I want to address here and put on the record. And it is not with you or your staff; it's actually with your Board Chair, Mr. Deon. I'd like to go through time line in terms of where we have come from last year. Last year this time there was an issue of school tokens or student transportation, however you want to frame it, that was raised and there were members of this Council, including the vice chair of Transportation Committee Councilman Cohen who sought to withhold the total subsidy until that issue was resolved to this Council's satisfaction. I didn't believe coming in as a freshman Councilperson in my freshman year that I was prepared to take that action. Instead, I asked for hearings to be held, although hearings have been held the prior year under the leadership of 2016 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Councilman DiCicco. And I thought that in the end, recognizing the context of the situation, that we could pursue a different route, understanding that in my belief, which is still my belief, this issue is probably resolved best at the state level and through state subsidy, but that is something beyond our control. Pursuant to that, within weeks of us ending our budget process last year, I went to meet with State Representative Dwight Evans to begin to brainstorm about we might do on this issue in his capacity as Minority Chair of the House of Appropriations Committee. He laid out what I thought a very good strategy, and I'm not sure that it wasn't a good strategy now, in many ways we might approach this, but in particularly, who I need to talk to. Subsequently, he arranged through former board member Herman Wooden for me to sit down with Jettie Newkirk and Pat Deon. Unfortunately, Pat Deon was not able to make that meeting, but subsequently I sat down with him in my office. At that point, we talked about the whole issue of school tokens and other issues that I needed to be 2017 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET resolved, many of which were resolved to my satisfaction. All of which probably except the student transport issue which he said that he would work diligently on. He in particular said to me that he had already spoke with the House Majority Leader about looking for money in the state budget to provide this type of funding. He said he would speak to him again because of the impending school financial crisis at that time. He didn't think it was an appropriate time to deal with the student transportation issue because of the competing needs with other student needs in terms of we didn't know how we were going fund a contract, we didn't know whether schools were open. He said once the issue is resolved between Philadelphia and Harrisburg what we're going to do with the other student needs with the school crisis, that's the time when he would approach the Majority Leader again about the state subsidy. But as I look back now on that conversation, I'm particularly concerned by things I remember about it and what he thought our political approach might or might not be. In view of the fact that the local subsidy provided to SEPTA was 2018 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET significant in terms of being tens of millions of dollars, it's not significant in terms of the overall picture of operating expenses. He made a comment which I will put on the record and I don't mind putting on the record because I think that we are in a very political situation right now with regard to this issue. He said that the City Council could never withhold a subsidy because that would force SEPTA to just cut off service at the boarders of the City.
I assured him that while I was a freshman in my freshman year that I would probably not take the approach of trying to withhold the total subsidy. I would do what hurt probably a little bit and seek to cut 5 to 10 percent of it and transfer it to the School District to meet our needs. And not to be in a position of political posturing right now, recognizing through research that my office is doing, I recognize this is a highly state-subsidized five-county regional authority and that to deal with the issue of student transportation costs, it's going to come through one or two sources in terms of operating expenses. It's going to come from fare revenue or it's going to come from subsidy. That subsidy is mostly 2019 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET government subsidy. The overwhelming majority of that government subsidy is from the State. If the State is not our partner in this, then we cannot resolve this issue. My concern is, a year later as we're approaching budget time again, it was your board Chair that was supposed to reach out to the Majority Leader of the State House to resolve the state part of this. We don't know where to turn. Essentially, I think this Council probably is prepared to look at what it can do on a local level in terms of perhaps providing additional local subsidy toward that end, and we do have hearings scheduled on April 3rd at 10 o'clock to deal with that issue and to deal with what we plan to do in terms of a whole comparative look at how SEPTA performs versus other transportation systems in the top 10 cities in the United States. But I am concerned about, one, whether SEPTA is going to show up on April 3rd at 10 o'clock ready to talk seriously, and what SEPTA is really prepared to do in terms of reaching out to the State. We are prepared to do our part to resolve this issue. But I am not just going to at face 2020 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET value accept that our lobbying efforts without your lobbying efforts to the State are going to work, particularly in view of the fact that we as the City, Administration, and Council cannot do anything to jeopardize other student needs. We don't want to cut student transportation costs at the expense of books, at the expense of teacher salaries and looking at $189 million deficit the School District is facing. We need state help. So we need your involvement on that issue. And I have to tell you that I've been burned once on this issue. You will probably hear of many members of this Council raise this issue again today. We need you to take very seriously outreach to the State in terms of trying to direct some of that state subsidy toward this problem as we look at how to direct local subsidy to this problem. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Councilman. Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds-Brown.
Thank you very much. Good afternoon. Councilman Goode has 2021 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET quite beautifully laid out the big picture with regards to school tokens. I have some specific questions around the same question. I think it's important to point out that there's some value -- there's already of the value of partnerships because you indicated that with your three-year-old truancy initiative with the School District, it's working. So I should mention that last year when colleague Councilman Cohen raised the issue, I decided to look to the leadership of the Chair of the Transportation Committee, my colleague W. Wilson Goode, as it relates to school tokens and actually decided to wait a year to see what would happen. Leadership was taken on behalf of the Chair of this committee in this body. Has there been any additional discussion at board level? Has it ever even been an agenda item at board meetings with regard to this issue, when we know that last year extensive discussion and debate happened on this floor on the issue of school tokens?
Let me begin, and then perhaps the board members might want to comment. On Councilman Goode's comments, let me say I will take those comments back to my Board 2022 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Chair and remind him of his discussion with you and willingness to approach the Majority Leader on this issue. I will also commit to you that we will be there on April 3rd at the meeting. We have been struggling with this issue all year long. This is not an issue that we have just easily discarded. Just to characterize it again, I know you're aware of this. But we spend approximately $45 million every year to transport 32,000 school children in the City of Philadelphia. This amount comes directly out of the SEPTA operating budgets. Now, to offset a portion of that, we receive million dollars in fare revenue 15 from school tokens and school transfers. But the balance of the $30 million has just sort of become part of the SEPTA -- we found ways to make it part of the SEPTA overall budget. If you remember my comments as part of the budget process, we are by law required to submit a balanced budget. We cannot submit an unbalanced budget. So without that $15 million, we are put in a position of having to reduce services somewhere else. We're really trading these resources from one place to another and we've just been able to find -- 2023 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
I'm sorry. Let me just say again, we spend $45 million carrying the 32,000 school youngsters in the City of Philadelphia. And of that $45 million, we receive $15 million in tokens. The problem is, we are by law required to submit a balanced budget. We cannot have a deficit budget. And without that -- that $15 million is turned right back into service. And so we're put in a position of having to take the $15 million away from one group and give it to another group or take the service away from one group. And we've never been able to deal with that. We just don't know how to deal that. I think this idea of approaching Representative Evans and the Majority Leader and building a coalition to get some help from Harrisburg may be an approach that would actually deliver some results. I know the school department was very successful this year in expanding their subsidies from Harrisburg. Unfortunately, we were not. We lost $6 million from the Governor's budget at Harrisburg. 2024 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET So I will take this information back. I want you to know that we have not just been cavalier and discarded this. We have been struggling with this all year long and just do not have an answer at this time.
A couple of additional follow-up questions. Currently, SEPTA provides discount to universities. Help me understand again how the discount you provide to universities differ or does not differ from the discount currently provided to students who attend Philadelphia public schools. Can someone speak to that?
Yes. We have a bulk discount program. Let me back up. The base fair of SEPTA is $1.60. $1.60 is very heavily discounted if you buy a token. A token is $1.15. We have weekly passes and monthly passes that are also very heavily discounted. Almost 35 percent of our ridership buys a discounted pass of some sort. Businesses and universities are also made -- a program Compass, Company Pass Program I think it is, is made available to businesses and universities that buy bulk, buy large numbers. I'd have to look to the 2025 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET staff to tell me the number. I think it's 500 minimum. And in the same time, they do all the bookkeeping, and usually employee withholding and payroll deduction kinds of arrangements are put together to facilitate this. I believe it's about a 5 percent discount on a transit pass if you buy in bulk.
And so how does that -- one way that differs is that you say the business or university pay for a portion of the discount, correct, which would not happen with students?
Let me look to the staff. I think there's some universities, I think maybe University of Pennsylvania for some of its students picks up some of the cost. I know there are some businesses that pick up as much as 50 percent of the cost of the pass just as part of their regular way of doing business and attracting employees as an employee benefit.
New York has a swipe card which helps them towards being a contributor to this whole notion of discounted school tokens. Has SEPTA ever explored that 2026 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET possibility?
Yes. We have a swipe card now. Our monthly pass if you notice on the back of it has a magnetic card, it's a swipe card on the buses. We have a swipe card in the subways, using the subways with a monthly pass. What New York has at this point that we don't have is a steward value card. If you buy a SEPTA pass for $34.50 a month and you can swipe it and it allows you in and out for the month, the New York system would allow you to buy three months worth of value on the card. You could put a hundred dollars on the card and then every time you swipe it, it subtracts a certain amount. We have looked at that. We are looking at a wide range of fair collection kinds of technologies and so forth and have made no decision at this point. It is something in the future.
Okay. You're still in the investigative stage?
Back to what you mentioned, the bulk discount program, that type of model could not be used with the school 2027 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET District, or is used with School District? Where is the difference? I'm trying to get a handle on the difference.
Excuse me one second. Let me introduce Bernard Cohen from the staff.
Excuse me. Please identify yourself for the record.
My name is Bernard Cohen, Assistant General Manager, Transit Operations.
C-O-H-E-N. The pass discount program that you're referring to is a program that is available for, as the general manager said, for companies or for any large institution that's going to buy large volume of monthly or weekly passes.
The School District could do the same THING. The difference is that the token is 2028 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET actually a much deeper discounted form of fair medium than the pass is. The pass is discounted by us by percent if you buy large volumes of the 5 passes. The token discount percentage off the base fare is 28 percent. So really, if the School District continues to buy tokens the way they've been buying, they're getting a 28 percent discount off the base fare. Whereas, the bulk pass program that you're talking about is a 5 or 10 percent discount off of the monthly or the weekly pass. So it's a different program.
So you're saying that SEPTA does discount the School District when you take the 15 million from the 45 million, the balance is the discount that SEPTA is offering to the School District?
No. What we're saying is that for every trip that a school student in the City of Philadelphia takes, the token that's purchased by the School District only covers about half or last than a half of the actual cost of that trip, and SEPTA's operating budget picks up the other half. So that even though we are being paid for the token, we're actually picking up 50 or 60 2029 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET percent of the actual cost of that trip, and that's the subsidy that's really hidden because it comes out of SEPTA operating budget.
I will yield to Councilman Ortiz and I just have a couple of different questions separate from this issue.
I think when you put it that way, you give the wrong impression. You sell the tokens to the school for $1.15. Anyone, not the school alone -- the impression is given that this is a discount that is given to the public school system. It is not a discount that is given to the public school system. Anyone can buy tokens for $1.15, right.
So it is not a discount. And then the school has to sell them and they sell them to students at a cheaper basis incurring a cost to the school system that really they cannot incur at this point in time. So I think what I'm trying to say is I think that you were getting the impression that this discount is for the school. No, anyone in the City can buy at this point at that level. 2030 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Just a point on that. The State does provide a subsidy to the school department to pay a portion of that cost of that token, so there is a third avenue that ways in here in this equation.
Clearly, as we can see from the discussion months later 11 that we have a lot of work to do in this area. I am 12 not a member of this committee, but I will be paying close attention and following the leadership of the Transportation Committee on this issue. Let's move to a another final question I have. of your testimony, top paragraph. It is stated that, and I quote, "We are proud to have participated in the City's Minority Enterprise Development Program and Symposium." Elaborate, please, on the level of participation. What does that mean?
Good afternoon. My name is Frances Jones, Assistant General Manager of Government Affairs. Each year we participate in the MED 2031 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Week, which is the Minority Enterprise Development Council program that's done annually by providing symposiums for small business people at our site. We also provide technical assistance workshops to help small business people to be able to participate on a greater level in SEPTA contracts. We are really trying to be ambitious in this effort starting this year because we are about to begin serious work on the Market Street Elevated reconstruction project. And in that vein, we are attempting to get as many minority business people, local business people as possible to really participate on that project. So in a more ambitious way this year, I think that our MED Week involvement will be at a greater level.
Was SEPTA ever able to achieve its goals around MBE and WE participation with the Frankford Elevated effort? Did SEPTA achieve its goals?
On most of those contracts, we did achieve our goal, and in some instances we exceeded the goal. On the Market Street end, participating in the MED Week effort, having a community outreach, participating in community 2032 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET events will enable us to increase our DBE MBE goals for contracts as move forward with that project. And really to set the tone to try to increase minority participation on other projects authority-wise.
So with the benefit of hindsight, what you're doing differently in West Philadelphia is the outreach that you just spoke about so as to -- nothing is a guarantee, but for sure it will move you closer to the achievement of those MBE WBE goals. Is there anything else you're doing that's different what you did with the Frankford initiative.
Initially, I would say that we were just a little bit more ambitious in our outreach. But authority-wide, whenever we projects, we try to have minority participation and community participation. I think that we're just trying to do it a greater level to make sure that the community is made aware of exactly what it is that we're doing, be it our riders, the business people, or residents. We are really just trying to do a greater level of outreach now. But it's been a part 2033 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET of our plan always to keep everybody involved.
Thank you very much. My final comment is just to congratulate on the work you are doing with the School District around the truancy piece because we know as a City it was out of control, and when we look to see what the District Attorney's Office is doing in this area coupled with what SEPTA is doing with the School District is helping us get better at the bottom line which is to see less truancy in the street during school hours. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam.
You're welcome. I have one question and then I'll call on Councilman Ortiz. We submitted to you a copy of a report adopted by Council regarding Resolution 18 000684 dealing with improving responses to mentally disabled persons in crisis. I mention this because we held hearings, and I will read one paragraph, only one. "I have called this investigative hearing in response to the tragic shooting of Mr. Robert Brown, a severely mentally ill African-American resident of my district. Mr. Brown was approximately 45 years of age and had been battling 2034 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET with schizophrenia since the late '70s. He had been in and out of treatment facilities that provided varying degrees of services, and at this stage of his life, he was attempting to live on his own as a productive member of society. Mr. Brown received his treatment from one of the Behavioral Health System's community-based mental health centers where he allegedly received individual and group therapy, had an intensive case manager and received psychotropic medication. Mr. Brown spent his days at 30th Street Station and was known to many of the local merchants as well as Amtrak Police. And prior to this incident, he never showed signs of violence. On July 18, when he arrived at 30th Street Station, he was acting a little stranger than normal." Let mow go down to the main point. I wanted to give you a little bit of background. "There was a chase. When the case came to a halt, Mr. Brown felt threatened. He picked up the chair from the dining area of 30th Street Station, raised it over his head, and the police perceived it as an opportunity to throw it at them. We will never know for sure because he was then shot in the abdomen and died shortly thereafter on the 2035 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET third floor of 30th Street Station in front of children, visitors, and patrons." In fact, it was in front of a McDonald's restaurant where there many, many people around. So it's been a very unsettling incident for us because this was a person who was connected to the system and was nonetheless shot when we were half a block away, a matter of feet away from an outreach center, an outreach office for Horizon House. And there are so many ways that this should have been dealt with, but this man was killed in front of a lot of people in front of McDonald's restaurant. So we ask you what your policy is in dealing with mentally ill disabled persons in crisis, if you have one. We certainly made this report available to you and would hope that you would take it seriously because there is not one life that we can spare. And because this gentleman was mentally ill certainly makes his life no less valuable to his family and friends and certainly to our society.
He was shot by 2036 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Amtrak Police.
We're very sensitive to this. We work very closely with the Philadelphia Police Department and Amtrak Police Department and is taking this issue very seriously. If Chief wants to elaborate on it.
I am Richard Evans again. Councilwoman, our officers receive annual training in the use of deadly force and they are also trained in dealing with mentally ill persons and how to treat them, how to get them treatment.
Thank you very much. We really need this on the record because, again, we say because a person is ill makes their life nonetheless valuable. God created all people and we have to try to realize in the final analysis that we are our brother's keeper; and until we accept that, then I think that we'll have problems, more problems than we should have in our society. So it's very, very important. I'm sure that you received a copy of this report. We wanted to make sure that everyone -- Amtrak didn't appear at our hearing because they don't know where they are in terms of being sued, but we certainly focussed a lot 2037 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET on the Philadelphia Police Department, mental health agencies, etcetera. All right, thank you. Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Leary, I want to thank Frances and yourself. Last year we've been trying to start dialog between latino contractors and other business folks and although we've had bumps on the road, it is still going on and I really want to thank Frances for the efforts that she's put forward along those lines. Now that the nice things have been said, on the tokens issue. There's a degree of patience and degrees of impatience. When your predecessor Mr. Gambiccini (ph) was here, we discussed the issue of tokens with Mr. Gambiccini. The issue is that there are students in this City who find it impossible because their families cannot really carry the cost and we have students in this City that are not attending. Usually those students are black and brown, Latinos and African-Americans. And they're finding it impossible from going to school because at times they cannot afford the tokens. And 2038 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET we didn't begin talking about this last year. We've been talking about this, as I said, from the period of time of Mr. Gambiccini. It is our problem, this is a Philadelphia problem. I understand that the State has to play a role, but it is mainly in essence it comes down to the kids that are not going to school are our kids. And we talked last year about the transfers and could we begin taking away the cost that the transfer imposes. And that's a small step. And then when we talked about the overall aspect of just providing tokens or free transportation to the school kids in Philadelphia, really the cost was not that the great. I think it was, what, $2 million?
Two and a half million dollars. And I think two and a half million dollars out of all of the money that we spend in this City can be found. And like I said, we've been talking about it for so long that if we keep talking and going back to Harrisburg and trying to do this, we're never ever going to answer this question to our most poor kids in the City. So I'm all for 2039 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET talking to go Harrisburg and tying to get Harrisburg to give us some more money. But we're talking to Harrisburg about giving us more money for the school system. And that proves to be a monumental and almost impossible task. So the responsibility of whether we are going to have our kids attend school daily then falls on this Council for us to find two and a half million dollars. And for us to find it with your assistance and be able to provide this service. And if not two and a half million dollars, then enough so that the cost not become such a burden on the families of these students. So I'm not willing to keep on just waiting for a solution to this because we've been talking about this ad nauseam for too many years. And I don't want to find ourselves here next year going on about the same issue and talking about the hearings that we've had but that have didn't come to the issue and the objective of solving the problem. So I want to end the discussion that we started with Gambiccini and so on. I want it to end so that we can begin really discussing what needs to be done. And I think if we can begin with the 2040 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET transfers and the cost of the transfers, that can be a step. And so to me, the discussion goes beyond just the issue. We can't keep on studying it anymore. We know what the problem is. The solution is two and a half million dollars. Whether we can get it or not, that depends on the will of this Council and what our priorities are going to be. Do you have a response to that?
Well, Councilman, you know, I feel the passion you have for this issue. Two and a half million dollars represents the salaries of 50 bus operators. If we were cut 50 bus operators and the same level of service, we could do it instantly. That's never been on -- anything anybody wanted to do to begin to cut service to pay for something else. As I said, we are unable -- by law, we cannot produce a deficit budget. We have to balance the budget. Three of the last four years we have balanced the budget and actually ended with a slight surplus of a few thousand dollars every year. That's how close we are to the bottom line. We've never been able to deal with that. You know, taking service from one place and putting it someplace else, and that's really what it entails if we don't 2041 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET work together and find additional money. I have to tell you, I never expected to lose $6 million from Harrisburg this year. If you were here for the presentation, we have some pretty serious financial issues.
But you just made my point. You never expected to lose $6 million from Harrisburg. But in the discuss that we had, it seems like we got to find the solution to the tokens in Harrisburg.
To the token issue in Harrisburg. But Harrisburg really doesn't give a damn that much about whether some of our kids are able to afford transfer or bus fare and so on. They're interested in some other bottom line that they pursue and they see. And I'm not saying that it is just your responsibility. Like I said, I think it is the responsibility of this Council together with you to find out how it is that we move on this, because we discussed it. And I'm not saying that you're not as concerned as we are. We've just got to move towards how it is that we 2042 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET find that money. Another issue, the people who clean the subways and the stations, Vitec is a company that you contract with, and it seems that --
Councilman, for the record, that's not exactly correct. Vitec is a subcontractor to another firm. They contract with another firm, and I have to check with staff.
Well, Vitec is subcontractor and they hire the workers to work and clean Suburban Station and so on, right?
And they contract with one or more subcontractors to help them.
Well, Vitec seems to operate on very, let's say, bad labor practices. It does not seem to have a very good record of labor relations. I wonder why we keep them on the payroll, we keep giving them a contract or accepting them as a subcontractor to do the work in our stations. And right now you have those labor unions 2043 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET in negotiations and it seems like there's a problem in getting together in terms to fairly negotiate a contract at this time. And I want to know what are the impediments and what are the road blocks to a fair contract at this point?
Councilman, I'm not sure I can answer that. I'm aware of the fact that one of the subcontractors of this particular contractor is in the process of either organizing or some labor dispute, jurisdictional dispute or whatever. As you know, public dollars have a very defined procurement process. You're not permitted to influence in any way. You put the specifications out. The low bid firm, if it's a responsible firm, and Clean Tech has proven to be a very responsible firm. They have a long record of success, both in the private sector and public sector. Given that they have been lowest responsible bidder on this work, our choices are limited at that point. There is no way we can disqualify them.
There's no way you disqualify them because they're the lowest responsible bidder, but do you only take into consideration the bid? What about their practices 2044 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET with labor?
They've been determined to be both responsive and responsible. And if we were to interrupt that, if we were to disregard that criteria, we would find ourselves in court instantly. We've been very careful not to interfere with the relationships between prime contracts and subcontractors. I have to check with counsel again, but at the time that this was raised to my attention, I was told that I had to very, very careful.
Will you check with counsel and get back to us? There are problems there, problems with this company named Vitec. I'd like to hear from your side as to the problems that are there because I hear other side. I'd like to see and hear what your side and this other company has to say about this. Could you --
One last thing. The Metro Newspaper, how much does that cost to put out?
Councilman, I'm not sure. I can tell you what they pay us. Metro Newspaper pays 2045 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET us a fee of $35,000 a month, plus --
Outside of SEPTA. Separate company. Again, we competitively bid it. We advertised it. This concept, this service, we advertised it in the "Daily News" and the "Philadelphia Inquirer." A firm came in and bid on it. They were determined to be responsive and responsible. Their bid was based on two parts. One was a fee to SEPTA for the right to use our facilities and distributed, that was $35,000 a month.
A month. And an additional $15,000 a month for cleaning, for the cost of cleaning up or any cost we may incur as a result of people leaving these newspapers.
So it comes to like $50,000 a month that you get from Metro.
They pay us to do it. We'll 2046 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET tell you that there are at least six other cities, transit properties around the country now that are considering doing the same thing.
It's a private company that has publications around the world. I'm sure they make a profit.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon. This may be a question that relates primarily to the capital budget, but it ultimately affects the operation of a particular line. I wanted to talk to you about the Route 15, the new reconstruction of the trolley line. I wanted to get a sense of the time line, the project, when we can expect these trollies to come on-line, what possible delays we may have during the construction period as it relates to bus service.
I can tell you, Councilman, 2047 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Route light rail project, it is moving along very quickly. The contracts, the civil structural and right-of-way facility contracts have all been awarded. Contractors are out there doing it right now. I believe it's about to 30 months of 7 construction until it will be complete and in place. 8 Within the next 90 days, 120 days, we expect to 9 award a contract to a car manufacturer or a vehicle 10 re-manufacturer. It's been determined in 11 coordination with everybody, everyone kind of likes 12 the idea of us taking the old historic trollies and 13 not rebuilding them, but re-manufacturing them to a 14 modern day standard. The standard that they would 15 have lifts and be accessible to the disabled.
Aesthetically, they would look old, but they would be air conditioned and accessible. That contract, we expect to award a contract for this re-manufacturing process within the next 120 days. And then there will be a three-year period, 30-month to 36-month period while these vehicles will be re-manufactured and then delivered back to us. And I don't expect any 2048 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET interruption of the bus service. I expect a very smooth transition from the existing Route buses 4 to the new Route 15. 5
Will there be 6 interruptions during the course of the construction? 7 I'm assuming you may have to detour bus service. 8 Will that affect it? 9
There will be some 10 crossovers and intersections. There will be some 11 disruption. We've opened a community office. I'm 12 going to turn to Frances on this one. 13 MS JONES: Frances Jones, Assistant 14 General Manager, Government Affairs. 15 Councilman, we have a community office that we've opened at 19th and Girard Avenue and there are series of community meetings that are going on within the next couple of weeks just to bring the community up to speed on where we are with the project, to answer their questions and their concerns and generally just to layout the project so that they understand exactly what's going to go on, what's the benefit to the community, the long-term benefit, the short-term inconvenience, and what we expect the project to look like when it is complete. 2049 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
I might note, we've been through that a lot in my area, and Frances handles it well.
Yes. We had a meeting last week at the zoo to talk about the art in transit project that we're going to do at the zoo location. So it's been a series of meetings and outreach just so that we can keep the community abreast of what's going on.
With respect to the transformation back to light rail as opposed to the bus system, what factors were part of that decision-making process.
It's my understanding that the conversion from the bus to the light rail was a part of an agreement that we had with the City of 2050 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Philadelphia to initiate the return of trollies or light rail vehicles beginning with the Route 15. We did a series of focus groups with the community, our riders, employees, just to get a tone or a feel for exactly how receptive our riders would be to the return of the light rail vehicles. And as a result, we implemented and started the procedure and the process to have that happen.
It wasn't financial, environmental? People just like trollies as opposed to buses?
Well, of course, all of those issues are taken into consideration. Of course, we have a lot of support from the Trolley Coalition interested in returning trollies to the lines in Philadelphia, but the Route 15 was the one where we started.
I'm not sure you answered my question. Did it have any financial considerations? Is the light rail less expensive to run than the bus or is it more expensive? Are there certain environmental concerns? I've heard that raised the pollution levels, bus versus trolley? Or was it just simply because people like trollies? 2051 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Good afternoon. I'm Pat Nawalkowsky, I'm the Assistant General Manager for Infrastructure, Engineering and Technology. To try to answer your question, from a capital perspective, capital cost, to restore the Route to trolley service from a bus service was 10 absolutely much more expensive as compared to what a 11 bus service would cost. 12
That answers my 13 question. But because we like trollies, we made the 14 decision? And I'm fine with that. I just want to 15 make sure I understood.
I hear you. I used to ride the 23. You may want to stay. I had another question with respect -- as we're closely approaching, I'm starting to get questions about it. I've actually had some questions about some of the property owners on the Girard Avenue corridor I guess between College Wall and the river because 2052 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET they are the properties relatively close to the rail lines and I've gotten some calls that people feel that the implementation of the trolley service will affect the foundations of the properties. And I don't know, not being an engineer or a person involved in that. Is there a possibility that the trollies, which most people think are probably heavier, I'm assuming, and impact on the pathway, the groundway may have more vibrations and people are concerned about foundation.
Let me try to answer that. As you know, we obviously run trollies in West Philadelphia on 10, the 11, the 13, the 34 and the 36, and trollies running on those lines are heavier than a bus. They will create more noise and vibration than a bus would. Typically, what we have found is that they do not rise to the level of causing cracks in foundations or anything like that unless there are a number of voids in the street because voids tend to propagate the vibration through the ground. If there's solid ground there, they tend to get damped in the ground and dissipate in that way.
Frances, I 2053 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET understand your person is going to be having meetings. In that particular area, because that's where I've gotten most of the calls, would it be possible for your outreach person to talk to the business association up there? We may actually want to look at the foundations prior to the construction process so we don't have these folks coming up with these mysterious cracks in the wall after the fact. That would be very helpful to me.
Good afternoon, Mr. Leary, Ms. Newkirk, Mr. DiCicco and Ms. Jones. Mr. Leary, I needed to get, I guess, an update on a situation with a proposal for some new service in the City Avenue corridor related to the City Avenue Special Services District and an attempt by many of 2054 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET us over in that area, Philadelphia and Lower Merion to provide some additional service, not only on City Avenue, but also into the Manyunk section to help, I think from our perspective, alleviate some of the vehicular congestion in both of those communities. I was perplexed at learning that SEPTA apparently declined to respond to the bid for what we've generally begun to call the City Avenue Regional Transit. Conceptual, at least, somewhat similar to the Phlash, which I think SEPTA operates in Center City, and Lucy out in West Philadelphia as a part of University City Special Services District. Can you tell me why that decision was made?
Councilman, I remember at the time, and it was primarily the time line of we had fully committed a couple vehicles and were just unable to respond to the bid in the time that they were pursuing. It was a matter of bus procurement, a matter of time table development. We operate on a quarterly cycle of schedules and timetables and was just unable to deal with it at the time.
Do you know if any of that information was communicated to any of the representatives of City Avenue Special Services 2055 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET District, including myself.
I believe that we did notify them that we would be unable to bid.
Again, I'm Bernard Cohen, Assistant General Manager, Transit Operations. I'd have to check to be sure, but I do believe that we did notify the special services district that we would be not in a position to put in a proposal for that service for the reasons that the general manager just stated.
I appreciate you giving the more detailed explanation because that's the first I've heard I've heard of it and no one from the agency had touched base with me about it, whether there could be some adjustment or something like that. I mean, they operate two very fine service in other parts of the City. And quite honestly, notwithstanding an RFP process, one would think that if something involves transit in our area here that we have a five-county state-authorized transit agency, I mean, that is kind of your 2056 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET business, right?
We attended a number of meetings with the district. We went over the RFP very carefully. It is, as you said, ordinarily the kind of business we would be interested in, but the time frame for getting the service up and running based on our operator availability or the time frame that we felt we would need to hire people and, more importantly, the time frame available to get the vehicles was on a much faster timetable. I think it was a matter of like two months that they wanted the service up and running, and we just didn't feel we could meet that schedule.
Okay. Well, I'd like to get further into details. Quite honestly, though, and I don't know who the responding parties were, I'm not going to be deciding who gets anything in any of this, but, I mean, if you're going to have trouble responding to it and this is what you do in a fairly large way, then I can't imagine that anyone else is going to be in an easier position. Now, maybe this is a case where someone that's smaller, lighter, quicker might be able to do something. 2057 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Every now and then the bigger is not always better, but we would certainly benefit tremendously from some type of SEPTA participation at least, quite frankly, through the bidding process. You get a chance to compare. It's always as compared to what.
I mean, as we go out in the marketplace for different things, I mean, if we were trying to buy cars or something, it's interesting if, you know, Kia or somebody like that responded to the bid, but generally, you kind of want to know what's Ford and GM and what are those guys doing. And you're obviously in that category and you provide a good service and we'd like to hear a little bit more from the agency.
Thank you very much. Councilman DiCicco. 2058 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
I just want to go back to the issue of school tokens primarily just to get some background. A couple years ago I conducted some issues hearings on this, and I believe you testified, Jack, at that time. I think the School District at this time said that they were spending about a million dollars a year -- and this really has nothing much to do with you, but by way of background. The School District, I believe at the time, said that they spend about a million dollars a year in distributing tokens to the students, which I thought was an astronomical figure. And I don't think we ever got a complete response as to what they were doing to eliminate some of those costs because I thought if they could reduce those costs, we could use those cost savings to put into the pool of money to reduce the 2.5 million that ultimately has to be absorbed by the students. Is the swipe card a fairly new means of payment for students? It is available to students, I assume, right?
It would be available to 2059 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET students.
It's been in place at least five to seven years, maybe even a little bit longer.
So then do the students have the option of the swipe card versus the token?
Oh, they certainly can go to Rite Aid, for example, or places where we sell weekly and monthly passes.
I thought that was part of the conversation at those hearings also, if we find more places where they would be available. My next question is, is the swipe card less expensive in terms of the cost to both SEPTA and the School District as it is compared to the tokens? I see a lot of people shaking their heads no. 21
Well, the swipe card has to be replaced every month, so there's not only a cost of production but there's a cost of distribution.
I'm really looking for questions that I may hit the School District 2060 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET with when they come in as to why they're not doing anything more to be more efficient to help us get those costs down.
Councilman, the 2.5 million just reflects the cost of the transfers.
I think the difference was around 5 million, if I'm not mistaken, overall between -- that's what the cost to the students is in total was the transfer and that portion of the tokens that they pick up. Ms. Yanoff's in the audience --
When you said two and a half million, I thought that was a little bit lower than we initially --
That's right. It's 15 million total; 15,500,000, it's a very large number.
Obviously, we're going to have some more questions for the School District when they come in because I don't think they're doing what they need to be doing to help us get this costs down. Everyone looks to SEPTA. I think everyone has to share in this. And that was 2061 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the theme of what our hearings were, how do we all share in finding ways in which we can reduce these costs. The other question goes to -- you and I have had some conversation in the past about doing some sort of audio advertising in the subway stations and selling some airtime to -- my colleague to the right calls me the entrepreneurial guy here because I guess I'm still going back to my republican roots. (Laughter.)
Is anything being done there? And I don't suspect that it would be such a windfall that it would create all that kind of revenue, but we're all looking to figure out ways in which we could generate some revenue, and if it's a way in which we can raise a half million dollars or something a year by way of advertising and that can help reduce some of the costs to the students, that would be helpful.
Councilman, in a strange way, the Metro Newspaper came out of those discussions. The nontraditional way of raising revenues for transit property began discussions like 2062 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET you talked about, audiovisual advertising in the stations surfaced the Metro Newspaper. And now that the Metro Newspaper -- they didn't want us to pursue both at the same time. Next week, for example, we have a company coming in, I've forgotten the name, but we've identified two companies that have come in and making a presentation to us. The idea of putting digital readouts in the subway stations where they would provide us with the ability to provide information for our customers, at the same time provide advertising and concurrently find revenues. I'm not sure you were here for the earlier part of the discussion, but just diesel fuel, medical cost, prescriptions, we've got a 30 million dollar --
We're looking for every possible nontraditional way of raising it, and one of them is the idea of --
Just for my colleagues who were not here a couple years ago, what I'm talking about is if you're standing on a subway platform, as an example, during the time that you tet there until the train or the subway arrives, 2063 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET there's really not much to do so I thought about kind of what the Disney atmosphere is when you're waiting to get on the monorail or the shuttle, there's all kinds of information being put out over a PA system, not only about what time the train is arriving, but places of interest to go. So I thought that might be an opportunity for SEPTA to maybe sell some airtime. White sail, you know, whatever they call that sale at Strawbridges, you know. Lord & Taylor has sales going on today. I mean, that's means of advertising and it's a way of generating money possibly. And my other colleague who just appeared on the scene now, I can't get away from that republican mentality. But hey, look, advertising is money. And guess what? If we can generate that kind of money and help offset some of the cost to the students, why not? I mean, you're standing there on a platform anyway, so what's the difference if over a PA system --
Right to privacy? I don't know how private you can be on a subway. Anyway, but I just wanted to revisit that.
It still is on radar screen. 2064 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
I have to hand it to Councilman DiCicco. I think he's the most creative salesperson I've ever met. And I mean that positively, not negatively. My concern is a simple one. I think we operate in the United States on the theory that there is a public school system, that education of our children is very important, every youngster has the right to go to school, public school or some other school of the parents' choosing if they can afford to and they desire to. And I think we make a mockery of it in Philadelphia much worse than almost anywhere else by denying people the right to send their kids to school because of the financial encumbrance that transportation costs involve and the poorer you are, the more you suffer, the more you have to make a decision not only between food and medicine and heat in the house, but if you have a number of children, maybe which child goes to school that day or week or whether they go at all. 2065 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET And I think there are three agencies that have a responsibility to correct that. I think we've ben gentle. We've tried to be persuasive. We've tried to build a logical case over a number of years. It's in a new issue; it's an old issue. And unfortunately, I'm beginning to reach the conclusions that public agencies are as unlistening as most private organizations that operate solely for profit and only have a duty to the shareholder, but that public agency adopt the manner as if they have no public duties and they have no concerns and they come up with theories, well, we don't have the money or they say to the people, where are you going money, even though they're supposed to be experts. So I'm saying to you, I think it's time to end the games. I think that no money ought to be appropriated by the City of Philadelphia to SEPTA, to the School District, or even the City budget until there is an arrangement whereby every kid going to public school or any other school of their choosing from K to Grade 12 has to pay any fair at all on public transportation. And I think that the reasons that SEPTA gives are just unrealistic. I don't think it would actually cost SEPTA a penny. I 2066 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET think you have ample transportation facilities. And if there are times that are busy, maybe we could get different arrangements for school hours in certain areas of the City, whatever could be done between you, the School District, and the City of Philadelphia, the executive, I think can work out a way in which kids can get to school and we don't have the fiction that school is available to everybody. And let's stop the fiction of the Year of the Child, because children has been neglected this year and the last year and the year before like they don't count. And I think we treat them in government like they don't count. We say on one hand, oh, we want to educate them, we want them to live a full life, we want them to be able to pay taxes, we want to attract business so we have to have an educated work force. And then systematically we adopt policies which work to defeat all of those goals. Now, it isn't for us in City Council and it isn't for the public to have the wherewithal, the knowledge as to how to work out everything. But if those three bodies, the City, the School District, and SEPTA made its mind up that this would be done, 2067 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET it would be done and if money were needed would be provided. So I have to tell you, Mr. Leary, and others with you, all of whom I know, some much better than others and I know how sincere you are, but I think this could be done with the student wearing a badge, maybe the school will give it to them with the kind of identification you see in offices saying I am a student and they could wear it proudly. And if the schools have uniforms, they can wear their uniform, too.
And they ought to be able to ride free, no transfers, no tokens, none of this stuff that cost money to administer, which doesn't do a thing for kids but does things maybe for adults. We don't need that. They can walk on a bus, on a trolley car, whatever it is, and get to school so that there won't be any truancy to the degree that exists today and families won't be put in the bind they are today. So this isn't in the matter of a question. I think you're delinquent in your duties because you're a public agency. Most of your business comes from Philadelphia; isn't that right, even though you're a state agency? We have some representatives, a small minority represent 2068 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Philadelphia technically. It seems to me that we've got to get to that decision, we've got to get to it. And if you don't, I am saying to you I intend to make this a major campaign in Philadelphia. I think it's a disgrace that other cities in Pennsylvania either provide free transportation totally or transportation at a much lower cost than is involved in Philadelphia. And I think by default we've decided kids don't count. And kids ought to count; they ought to count more than anybody else. So I'm making this statement to you. I will be addressing the School District when it comes in on the budget. I've already raised with the Council President that I don't think we can kind of meet the time limit of passing a budget by March 23rd because there are too many undecided issues affecting the quality of life in Philadelphia that have to be addressed. And kids ride free has to be, in my mind, the slogan and the achievement if we're to be regarding as serious when we talk about the Year of the Child. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam 2069 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Chair. There was something I forgot in my earlier questions. About maybe a little more than a year ago there began to be a public debate about the number of large-scale parking garages that were being proposed, particularly in Center City in Councilman DiCicco's district, mine, and parts of Ann Verna's, and out of that discussion we introduced a resolution to talk about some changes that we needed to do as it related to the Center City plan and upgrading, doing an analysis of the parking issues. In those discussions, I thought of a couple of ideas that some people think are ridiculous, but I put them out there anyway. And I talked about the possibility of having dedicated subway cars solely for Center City for purposes of supporting shoppers and the purposes of supporting commuters, and I tell you why. It's understood that a substantial number of individuals come into the City every day to work and they want to park in close proximity to their jobs. Unfortunately, we have this rush hour, we have all these large parking garages that most people who live downtown hate. I asked the question in those discussions, would it make sense to have the majority of our larger 2070 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET parking garages around the periphery of Center City and have a dedicated rail line into the Center City area. And some people say, well, we have the Phlash. But the reality is is that the Phlash is subject to everybody else traffic jam. So as soon as somebody gets on the Phlash and they get caught in a traffic jam trying to get to work and they're late, they're never going catch it again, they're going to say, I'm drive my own car; I may get stuck in traffic, but I have my own vehicle. And also during the course of the various shopping times, you know, Christmas some of these man-made created shopping times, Valentine's Day -- that's man-made, right? It's capitalism, right? People want to be able to get on some system and go down to Fourth Street and go back to work up at 17th Street very quickly, and I thought that potentially there was an opportunity to have that same dedicated rail line go back and forth as a shopper special and we put some of the amenities on this rail line, say, for instance, we'll make it as nice as what we have in Washington because that's a very nice system down there. And I just kind of threw that out there not knowing if it made any 2071 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET sense. And low and behold, the other night Councilman DiCicco and Councilman Rizzo and myself attended a parking forum. And during one of the presentations, they had a real nice slide show -- Frank, I can't remember where that was. Was it San Antonio or somewhere where they actually had a dedicated rail line. Frank, do you remember? Frank, you're not listening to me. They actually had dedicated rail line that came from the parking garages on the periphery of Center City. I can't remember what city it was.
And that was their solution to this parking problem. I was wondering, first of all, in the discussion about this whole Center City parking issue if you guys are in the loop, because there was nobody at the SEPTA at the parking forum, although the Parking Authority was there? And second, if you are in the loop, what are your ideas about that?
Just a couple quick comments, Councilman. I like your idea about 2072 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET parking, large parking structures on the outskirts. When Philadelphia built the Broad Street line and the Market El, I mean, 75 years ago it created Philadelphia as the center of commerce in this region because of the transportation. But parking lots weren't required then. The system really needs expanded parking on the system. We have an excellent system going north-south and east-west; the El and the Broad Street line. I don't think you're way out of bounds on that at all.
The problem with that is that you're on the same train that the person that rides from Fernrock to Vet Stadium. If car that went on a consistent basis from, say, Washington Avenue to Vine Street that ran every 10 minutes, I think the likelihood of an individual wanting to catch that, you know what I mean, that's coming into town that know it's going to be every 10 minutes.
There is a train running from 30th Street through a subway every three minutes right now, from 30th Street to Second Street. We have what you're talking about. Not just exclusively for a certain class of people just 2073 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET because they have an automobile and they're parked there. It's open to everybody. Adding capacity to that three-minute train running back and forth is real easy.
No. I don't think you're out of the box at all on that issue. We have been, and I personally talked to Paul Levy in his initiative to kind of move Philadelphia commerce away from becoming parking lots and parking garages. Moving the parking out on the peripheral, reducing vehicle miles traveled, eliminating the congestion or reducing the congestion, making it much more efficient for those automobiles that need to be on the streets of Philadelphia --
You get a reduced rate either in the parking or on the subway if you park here and you ride in?
You could easily have a joint ticket, a joint fare, pay $5 to park your on the peripheral and that includes a trip on the transit.
In the future, 2074 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET because we're continuing the discussion. At some point there's supposed to be a report put out. Could you all make sure that somebody from your shop are --
We'll make sure we're included. I'll make sure that we're at these meetings.
Good issue. We'll take a five-minute break for the stenographer. And then Councilwoman Reynolds-Brown, you'll be next. (Brief recess.)
We're back in session. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My question was sparked by the added information that Councilman DiCicco provided, given his experience as chair of the committee. The swipe card that is currently used is used by university students, correct?
It's not just university. 2075 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET It's a regular pass, it's a Transpass. It's the regular pass, just purchased in bulk in a compass program, so it's the regular monthly pass.
And the question, do Philadelphia school students, be they public, Catholic, private, do they have the option to use the swipe card? Is it available to them as well?
This is Jettie Newkirk, Philadelphia representative. Council Lady, I think the issue is it is open to them as an option, but it costs more so they would not select this option. And it would cost more even if were bought in bulk.
That helps me. And while I would agree, albeit reluctantly, with my colleague Councilman DiCicco on the School District in the manner in which manages the way it spends money, it should be on the record that the School District is a partner around the issue of school tokens because they are indeed providing a subsidy, correct? 2076 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
That's correct, yes. They're paying for the tokens and the State is providing the subsidy to them.
And so the challenge as we move to the hearings that are going to be convened by Councilman Goode is how and what we need to do to have SEPTA be a partner around the issue of school tokens, because if I am understanding this as this scenario currently exists, SEPTA is a pass through right now for those dollars coming from the State. Help me out.
Council Lady, that's not correct. SEPTA is already a partner. I think the issue is determining how SEPTA can be a larger part. SEPTA is already providing the discount, the discount between the base fare of $1.60 and the $1.15 which the tokens cost. The children get them for less than that based on the state subsidy when they purchase them from the School District.
And the dispersement of those tokens, the administrative piece of that, is currently handled by the School District?
As we look to the hearings, help us determine how and if SEPTA can help with those administrative costs because that would then relieve the School District of the dollars attached to that and move towards, again, SEPTA becoming a greater partner around the whole issue of school tokens. It's a challenge, for sure, but I am not yet fully persuaded that SEPTA is a larger partner.
Hi, my name is Fay Moore, I'm SEPTA's treasurer. Hopefully I can help with some limited pieces of information. Right now the $1,15 that they pay us is indeed for the token. They receive in bulk some 300,000 tokens monthly or weekly or whatever it is. We send it to the School District. The School District is the only one who in turn there knows how those tokens should be distributed within the district. SEPTA cannot be that administrator because we're in the business of distributing the token.
That is well taken. Okay then. We'll look forward to these all-important hearings and hopefully make some progress over the next 12 months. Thank you very 2078 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET much.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I know there's been a lot of discussion about tokens and service and fares and contract negotiations upcoming. Just a word of compliment, I guess. I'm not a regular daily user of SEPTA, but I do use it on occasion. I'm on the Route, the 12 Broad Street Subway, Market El, I use the bus on 13 Market Street occasionally going from place to place 14 in town. They are extremely clean, they are 15 extremely well maintained, and I notice an amazing 16 -- not amazing, but a noticeable change over the 17 last five to seven years in the operators and 18 drivers, extremely courteous, much more courteous 19 than they had been in the past in my opinion. Plus, 20 the information that's provided on the bus or on the 21 subway or on the El itself as to what stop is coming 22 up next, it's very clear, the speaker systems is 23 very clear, they're air conditioned in the summer, they're very comfortable to ride in in the summer. I usual use it most of the time in the summertime. 2079 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET But I think the system, despite the economic challenges, despite the fare issues and despite the things you're dealing with as it relates to governance, as a City person, I'm only able to judge -- I don't use the R7 and R5 and those. I assume they're as well maintained also. But from a City perspective, I find the system much more user friendly and much more safe, at least the feeling of safety. You're in the big City, you know, big cities have their crime problems, but I feel safe on them and I any they're clean, well maintained, and the drivers have been much more improved in the last, say, 10 years in their helpfulness and their politeness and in their information, giving information where you're going, when the next stop is and that kind of stuff. And one of the things I always notice I guess in the last 10 years as opposed to 10 years before, is sometimes you see two buses come to an intersection at the same and people are trying to make the run to get from the one transfer to the other. Years passed, maybe a decade or so ago, I've seen those doors stay shut and people keep driving by. Now I see them wait, wait for the people to get across the street. The driver 2080 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET other driver will beep the horn and make sure that the other driver sees them. So I think there's been some substantive changes in the way the system's operated and the way it's maintained, and I want to think thank you for it.
Councilman, thank you. The people behind me work very hard and they appreciate hearing that. Thank you.
Thank you. Are there any other questions of SEPTA? Thank you so very much.
Community College is next. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good evening. Thank you so much for your patience. Kindly identify for yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good afternoon, Madam Chair, Members of City Council. My name is Ronda Cohen and I am the Chair of the Board of Trustees of Community College of Philadelphia. I am honored to have as colleagues on the board a group of dedicated civic 2081 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET and business leaders in Philadelphia who recognize the importance of Community College of Philadelphia to our great City. With your permission, I would like to introduce those present today. Mannie Ortiz, Delores Brisbin, Dr. Bruce Casswell, Alan Skimal, Dr. Ed Kung, Hugo Warren, Christine James-Brown, Representative James Roebuck. Let me first express our appreciation to the Mayor for recognizing the excellent work of our faculty, administrators, staff and students by recommending a $1 million additional allocation to the budget this year. We are most appreciative of this investment in the educational future of our City. Community College of Philadelphia was founded in 1965 and opened with an enrollment of 700 full-time and part-time students. Today, your City College is one of the largest urban community colleges in the nation with over 1,000 full- and part-time faculty and more than 41,000 credit and non-credit students enrolled in programs throughout the City. We are proud to be the third largest degree-granting institution in the City of Philadelphia. 2082 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Today, in addition to the board and staff present, our president, Stephen M. Curtis joins me. The college's board of trustees is pleased that President Curtis is leading the college at this significant time in the history of our City. We believe that he has the right combination of experience and dedication to ensure the realization of our shared vision for Philadelphia's City College. He has set a clear path for the college and we are making impressive strides under his able leadership. Therefore, at this time and with your permission, Madam Chair, I would like ask Dr. Curtis to present the formal testimony to Council on the budget for Community College of Philadelphia. Dr. Curtis.
Thank you. Good evening Council President Verna and Members of City Council. I'm Stephen Curtis, President of Community College of Philadelphia and I am honored to testify on behalf of the college's 2001-2002 operating and captain budget requests. First, I do want to extend my thanks to 2083 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET this Council for the support that you have provided for the college throughout our 36-year history of service to the City. Let me also add a personal note of thanks for each of you for the support and guidance you've provided for me since my appointment as president. And I've appreciated other opportunities to meet with the Council President and individual Councilmembers to discuss, not only budget needs, but future directions of the college. As the City's only public institution of higher education and the third largest degree-granting post secondary institution in Philadelphia, we do share with the Mayor and this Council a commitment to strengthening our neighborhoods, improving educational opportunities, and supporting economic development. This current year, the 2001-2001 Fiscal Year has been one of the of significant change and forward movement for the college. I'll briefly just list a few of the opportunities that we've seen this year. There's been a major expansion of programmatic and degree opportunities at the college's three regional centers. This year marks 2084 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the first time that the college is offering full degree completion opportunities at the three centers. In years past, those centers have served as a starting point for students who then move to the main campus for their degrees. But as of last fall, we offer a minimum of at least four full degrees now in their entirety at each of the regional centers. Our intention is to offer some additional ones. This year as seen our offerings to the business and industry community expanded. There's been an increase in collaborative programs in Philadelphia Public Schools. As an example, this year we have a pilot underway with the William Penn cluster in which we are doing professional development for middle school teachers in the areas of science and mathematics. Again, the intent is to expand that kind of effort across other clusters in the future. New programs are being offered in areas such as computer information systems, leadership studies, printing arts technology. This year represents the inauguration of our new biomedical technician program in 2085 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET collaboration with the Wistar Institution. The college has become an active member of the Pennsylvania Virtual Community College Consortium, a distance learning initiative of all 6 Pennsylvania community colleges that delivers 7 instruction via today's communication technologies 8 across the State. 9 Use of computer technology to facilitate 10 student placement testing and financial aid 11 application has been greatly expanded. 12 Phase 2 of the college's new Northwest 13 Regional Center at 1300 West Godfrey Avenue has been 14 completed. And now that center includes eight new 15 general purpose classrooms, two computer classrooms, a technical craft classroom, and additional offices and meeting rooms. Enrollments at the Northwest Center have grown by 180 percent in the last year and a half as the result of the new program opportunities made possible by the space expansion. The college's web pages have been redesigned to make the home page more effective for potential students, to make the support pages more useful for enrolled students, and to provide the opportunity for on-line applications. 2086 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET The college has expanded GED, adult literacy, and English as a second language offerings in community centers throughout the City and has assumed responsibility for the operation of standard evening high school from the Philadelphia School District.
We have recently completed a strategic plan and a companion technology plan which outlines strategic directions for the college for the next four years. To compliment these two plans, we shall be updating the college's 1997 facility master plan. A strong coordinated vision for the college's future has been set. In short, because of City and State funding for the current year, the college was able to make extraordinary progress in a wide range of programmatic and service areas. To continue that progress and to address forth-coming issues of increasing enrollment, technological literacy, expanded access to programs, and our commitment to work force and economic development, additional resources in 2001-2002 will be essential. Community College of Philadelphia has been the education answer to almost 500,000 Philadelphia residents since our creation in 1964. We are the sixth largest institution of higher 2087 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET education in the State. Over 60 percent of our students are years of age or older. The college 4 works with business, industry, government, higher 5 education, public and parochial schools to prepare, 6 train, and develop students, employees, leaders and 7 contributing citizens for our City. 8 We touch the lives of students long 9 before they ever enter the college. Our programs 10 with the School District of Philadelphia are helping 11 high school students improve their academic skills, 12 access college credit courses and experience 13 college. We are also helping to develop new 14 teachers in a variety of critically important areas. 15 Our students select us for certificate 16 or associate degree programs that lead to employment 17 or transfer to the four-year institution of their 18 choice. Students choose us because of our 19 affordable tuition, although, unfortunately, it 20 remains the highest tuition among Pennsylvania's 21 community colleges and one of the highest in the 22 country. Nevertheless, taking the first two years 23 of study at Community College of Philadelphia 24 significantly reduces the cost of a four-year 25 degree. Students also choose us because they are 2088 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET working parents and need to remain close to home and they can take courses at one of our many facilities throughout the City. Most importantly, students choose us because we have a proven record of success, a record confirmed by family, friends, and neighbors. Similarly, business and higher education choose Community College of Philadelphia in ever increasing numbers. More and more businesses select Community College to find employees or upgrade the skills of current employees. Four-year colleges and universities, Drexel, Penn, Bryn Mawr, Temple, the state system and others offer our students to opportunities to continue their education at their schools. The quality we provide and the success of our education programs create a positive benefit for all. 7 million in the next budget. Without these added and necessary resources, the college's efforts to serve the City will be hampered. With them, we will be able to continue on 2089 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the positive path of improved student services, expanded programs for business and industry, and enhanced effectiveness for the citizens of Philadelphia. We respectfully urge Council to support this allocation. The increase in our allocation will allow us to make significant progress in a number of areas. As a few brief examples, it will enable us to keep any increase in tuition and fees to a minimum. It will help us further improve our technology infrastructure. As an example, within the next 9 to 12 months we intend to quadruple our internet-based courses and to upgrade our computers across the college, both in number and beginning a cycle of replacing older computers with new ones.
It will enable us to introduce new degree programs and other curricular changes to meet the needs of the City's emerging industries; to expand student services at off-campus locations throughout the City; to replace worn out or obsolete equipment used in our laboratories; to enhance our partnerships with the School District of Philadelphia; to address some key deferred maintenance issues; to significantly expand the career planning and job 2090 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET placement services available to our students; to plan for a new expanded business and industry education center; to strengthen and expand our dual Administration agreements with area four-year colleges and universities; to continue our highly successful ACE Program, that's the Advanced College Experience for high school age students; and also to implement a new summer camp program for younger children; and to expand instructional offerings using alternative delivery strategies such as web-based courses, as I mentioned previously, interactive video and television in order to provide greater flexibility for both current and potential students. We cannot tackle our students' need for technological literacy, skills that are mandatory for the 21st Century without your help. We cannot expand career exploration and job placement services without your help. We cannot meet the demands of increased enrollment without your help. We cannot do any of the things I've listed without your help and support. Community College of Philadelphia has made tremendous progress in meeting its mission over the past year. With your continued support, our 2091 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET contribution to the economic vitality of the City will be further enhanced. As we do continuously, we have tightened our belts, secured supplemental grant funds, and advocated in Harrisburg for additional resources. We now need to ensure that our City's college is positioned to continue to respond efficiently and effectively to the needs of business, industry, government and its citizens for high-quality, affordable educational opportunities. To do this requires the additional resources recommended in the Mayor's budget. We have the experience and work force development and training and we have excellent programs in business, science, engineering and technology, health care, social and human services, liberal arts, arts and communications. We have talented faculty, dedicated employees, a visionary board of trustees and a collective talent to ensure success. We ask you to see us as this City's college here to help our City achieve its education and economic goals. We have been pleased to work in many ways to support the City, but we can and seek to do more. We ask that you help us formalize our 2092 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET position as the City source for educational resources. Systematically consider us as your training source when you need to upgrade the skills of the City's work force. Include us in your discussions to provide expanded professional development opportunities for School District teachers and staff. Involve us in the planning to improve work force training and economic development for current and potential employers. Community College of Philadelphia is affordable, agile, and responsive. And we are this City's college. We ask your help in achieving our collective vision for the City of Philadelphia. I thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. We urge your support of Community College of Philadelphia's annual appropriation as recommended in the budget. And we're happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thank you very much, Doctor. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Blackwell.
Thank you very much. 2093 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET Thank you, Doctor. Thank you, Mrs. Cohen. We certainly wanted to say a special thank you to Lynette Brown and my own State Rep Jim Roebuck who's very active on this board, I know, and certainly to Lillian Smith. I see Delores Brisbin back there, too. We certainly want to thank Lillian Smith in West Philadelphia. I'm glad to hear about the expanded programing because our branch has really become a pillar in the community. We have the perfect leadership out there who understands the community and has really open the doors so that we always have all kinds of seminars and important meetings, etcetera, going on there and we're just glad to hear about your positive leadership and willing to be flexible and to enhance programs there and certainly support your endeavors. Thank you. Thank you both.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Brown.
Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Community College. On of your testimony you mention, and I quote, 2094 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET that you have developed and expand collaborative programs with the Philadelphia School District. If you could just elaborate on that for us and speak if you will about the ACE Program that you also talk about in your testimony.
Surely. Starting with ACE, ACE is in our summer program for high school students, 10th, 11th, and 12th graders. It's open to any high school student in the City. There are some parameters. I think you have to have some of experience in terms of English composition, that kind of thing. But aside from that, it's open to any student, 10th, 11th and 12th grades. We offer a group of courses, typically about 12 to 15 just for the high school students. These are sections geared just for the high school students. The students get either A, B, and C; they can not fail. The goal is to let them have a collegiate course experience. If it turns out they're not prepared enough to really pass the course, they're not penalized; that's bottom line. So they either receive either the passing grade or they get no grade at all. It's a program that we're looking to expand. And as we work with clusters and high schools around the City, 2095 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET we're starting to try some other courses that haven't been previously offered. As an example, I believe on the schedule for this summer it is an automotive course designed to point toward West Philadelphia, for instance. That's not the kind of thing we've offered in the past. It's typically been a computer course or some other kinds of courses. In terms of general question, there are a number of things we are doing. I gave you one example. We're trying to do more in terms of professional development because we have things to offer the School District, and Act 48 does allow for community colleges to participate in that endeavor as well. The pilot program I mentioned to you is in response to something that has been said to me personally, but also a number of us at the college as we work with our K through 12 colleagues around the City. And that is that at middle school level, there is real need for math science technology among the teachers. Many are elementary school teachers who have moved into the middle school may not have that kind of background. So this is an effort to move forward in that way. As I said, this is a 2096 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET pilot we hope to expand. We're expanding our dual enrollment program. That gives during the year 11th and 12th graders an opportunity to take college courses for credit. And I'll use the West Philadelphia example again. This year, I believe, there are students 8 taking our automotive course from West Philadelphia. 9 So again, that did not occur a year ago. So we're 10 reaching out in different ways, whether it's 11 students taking courses, whether it's working with 12 teachers. We conducted a career fair at a middle 13 school a number months back, again, looking at career opportunities, so it's a range of things.
And starting earlier. What you're talking about, I know historically has been a practice of four-year institution where you tap young people around the 8th or 9th grade and then try to hold on to them and guide them, if you will, through the ultimate admission to that institution. But this is the first time I'm hearing a two-year institution take that approach, and I commend you for that. Earlier this week or last week the Commerce Department was before us and a new 2097 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET initiative they have undertaken with regards to bringing high tech new technology companies to our City. What initiatives is the college pursuing to ensure that students are getting prepared for the new technology companies?
I mentioned in my testimony that among other things that we have done is to create a long-range -- and I use the word advisedly -- technology plan. I say advisedly because it's only three years out. Things change so quickly, you have to constantly reassess where you're going. But that plan calls for a number of things. I'll give you two or three examples. One, we're seeking to infuse technology more and more into every curriculum. And to do that, we're putting a computer in every full-time faculty member's office. We are increasing the level of professional development that we're doing for faculty and staff. They need to know how to incorporate that into their curriculum. It's easy for computer science, computer information systems. What do you do in chemistry, what do you do in some other areas? So we're infusing in that way. I mentioned that we are expanding our 2098 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET web-based courses. When I arrived about a year and a half ago, we had four interest-based courses and we intend to quadruple that in the next to 5 months. We have a dozen faculty who are developing 6 internet-based courses now. 7 But we're not just trying to do it that 8 way, we're also trying to get faculty to develop 9 modules for their regular courses, a history course 10 or other courses to give internet assignments so 11 that students are forced to encounter technology in 12 that way. We expect in the next two years, as I mentioned briefly, to expand our center for business and industry. And as we do that, we'll be moving toward a 24-7 computer lab that, again, will expand access for students. So there's a whole range of things that are very much part of our plan and which we are aggressively pursuing.
That's encouraging as well when we know what tomorrow holds with regards to high technology. Back to the ACE Program, how old is that program? How many years?
Are you 2099 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET operating at capacity?
I'm not sure there's an issue of capacity. We keep looking to build it. If there are enough students, we'll create more courses.
Finally, with the Welfare to Work and the insistence that at some designated hour men and women have to either go into the work force or to college, child care has been one reality that's come as a result of to that. I know that Community College does have child care facilities. Should I assume that there has been increase in enrollment due to the Welfare to Work phenomena.
I don't know that I can answer that in a databased way. I would say the answer is no. I think that as Welfare reform came in, what we probably saw overall was a decline in enrollment because it put some parameters on what you could do education-wise. So if your question is, are we increase; I think the answer is no. What we're trying to do is to accommodate the nature of the work requirement in some different ways. And I may have mentioned this last year. I can't 2100 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET remember. We have a church in the City for two years now provide a scholarship -- not one scholarship, a fund for scholarships specifically for persons on public assistance. And the goal is to turn that into work study money. The college actually matches those scholarships dollar for dollar out of our work study funds. The goal is to allow that person who is on public assistance to come to the college, take the courses, but also fulfill will work requirement on campus. It makes it much easier to handle both. So we've been working with ways that we can accommodate the situation. But I don't think the literal answer is that it means we're increasing enrollment, no. 16
That's troubling. I thank you for the explanation. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you. The Chair recognize his Councilman Kenney.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In the last paragraph of your testimony 2101 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET there's discussion of a systematically consider us as your training source when you need to upgrade skills of the City's work force. Since John Timoney became commissioner, for example, he has been extremely strong on management, people continuing to improve their skills. And I know that through the Police Academy there is a relationship that's developed with Family College in Philadelphia. As it relates to the Police Department, as it relates to other management upgrade, as it relates to all the departments of the City, do you have a relationship with the City?
Which departments are they and what's the arrangement?
Some are continuing, some are about to start. We are just completing negotiations with the Police Department, in fact, to offer credit courses at the Academy so that as cadets finish their -- I think it's 40 weeks there, they'll walk away with five courses, 15 credits toward an associate degree. That's not a signed deal yet. But that's a proposal that we are currently working on with them. We do things with 2102 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET the Streets Department. I mean, we have a series of relationships throughout the City. My comment was meant to say that most of those develop in an ad hoc way. We reach out or, honestly, someone from a particular department will call us, but I'm not sure that the City has historically thought we've invested all this money in our local Community College, it has a level of experience and a level of I think a record of really producing. And so when we're talking about retaining a company in the City or trying to bring in a new company as well as the City itself to automatically call and say, Would you like to sit at the table, so that we see what you have to offer, I think it's not done in that systemic way. That's what that was meant to say.
So the potential relationship between the Police Department and Community College as it relates to cadets, has there any discussion as it relates to continuing management rank of lieutenant, captain and up or sergeants -- or even more generically, I guess, leadership kinds of courses that could be applied to Fire Department, to other areas?
Yes. I'm sorry, my answer 2103 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET was not complete enough. That usually gets dealt with through our regular course curricula. We have a justice program and we have an advisory board on which members of the department, and it's true for fire as well, a separate program -- not justice. And we do have upper level members of both departments who are taking a curriculum through the college in that way.
But that's done through the department itself or individual --
It's with the support of the department. Individuals are signing up. Am I stating this correctly? Yes.
So it's clear to the individual employees that graduation or matriculation through to particular course is something that their commissioner smiles upon?
Absolutely. And again, we have an advisory board for every career program and specifically for fire and police, which is what you asked me about, we have advisory board members from the department that sit with us and they helped us craft originally and now modify the curriculum so that it meets the needs of those departments. 2104 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
I'm happy to hear that. I was just concerned about the comment that we don't think of you enough.
I've tried to explain what I meant by that. I will be frank with you and say that it's true at the state level too, I think. The State also doesn't look at what they have invested in community colleges throughout the State, not just us, and say we have an investment thre. When we're talking about economic development at the State level, let's look at immediately to community colleges. It tends to happen based on the hard work of the parties involved rather than let's take a look in a systemic what can be done.
You mentioned the State. The close proximity of our state office building here in Philadelphia and the college is an opportunity to have students from the state government advance their skills in Community College. Is there any relationship directly between the State and Community College?
I don't know the answer to that. I don't think there's anything formal. I'm not aware of it at least. 2105 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET
Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of using Community College, and we have right now coming to fruition the five-year period of people that have been on Welfare. How has Community College been approached or used in terms of these individuals that have been required by law to go out and find work, many times without the skills necessary to be able to find those jobs? Has any City or State agency worked or contracted with City College to begin a process of preparing individuals for the workplace?
Sure. We work with PWDC as an example. We've started a new program this year, the Next Step Program. We are involved with the One Stop to a certain extent, the one that's currently in place. So we do have some of those specific programs. I would say to you they're in the large programs in terms of numbers.
That's my next question. How extensive are they and how many 2106 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET people are you touching.
I don't know that I can give you a number off the top of my head. I know it's fair to say it's not huge numbers. Part of that is driven by some of the program requirements. Sometimes when these programs are geared on a particular training track, there may be other requirements, 6th grade reading level, that sort of thing. If that isn't matched, it's difficult to get them into that program within a reasonable amount of time. That's something you're starting to see more of because in the good economy many people who have at least some skills have been able to find some employment.
I know that at one point we had many individuals, mostly women, that were on Welfare that were attending Community College. And then with the new law, schooling or higher education was not defined as work so they had to leave. What has been the loss of that? Do you have any numbers of people?
No. We are asked this question from time to time. Because students are not identified to us in that way anymore, we're not 2107 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET able to really track it in a data way. We only know that anecdotally, and that was the response I gave the Councilwoman earlier, that the numbers are definitely less, but we can't give you a definitive number because it's not reported to us in that way any longer.
Well, many of them had kids in the day care center that you have. Incredible day care center. I don't how many people have gone and seen it, but it is a very good facility. How is that operating and how many kids are now in the day care center, do you know, and was that part of the impact? Because I imagine that many of the people and many of the women that were on Welfare had their kids in that day care center so they can study.
Dr. Jones, can you tell me about how many children are there right now? Fifty-two is the answer. And again, I don't know right off the top of my head if we know how many would be children of families on public assistance. We don't know that, do we? No, we don't know that again.
Do you have numbers 2108 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET of different high schools and how many high schools feed into Community College every year?
And the retention rate and the individuals, how many of them -- I imagine it's a two-year associate degree?
How many of them go on to the four-year colleges and so on?
Yes, with the caveat that because almost all go on to private universities, we are dependent on that university to give us the data. Some give it to us more regularly than others.
I really would like to look at that. If you can send that over to the president, I'd really like to see what's the flow and graduation rate. 2109 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET The outreach aspect of Community College, how are you doing that? What is the success rate of your effort?
Well, our enrollment is rising. This will current semester in our credit programs we're 5 percent larger than we were a year ago in the spring, and our non-credit numbers are up too. So I think we are reaching out in many different ways, some of them obviously relate to marketing and so on, but some of them are programmatic in nature. When I mentioned in response to earlier questions about our relationship with the public schools, for example, that's a connection that ultimately we hope will lead to a transition into our college environment and that effects enrollment. I would say in ever category essentially this year, we are up in enrollment.
You currently have some satellites; is there any plans to build any more satellites for Community College in other parts of the City?
Not at the moment. Our 2110 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET three regional centers are each up in terms of enrollment. I've mentioned the Northwest because it was the one that we moved most recently into a new facility. With that move and with the addition of space, it has grown considerably faster than the other two, considerably faster than the main campus too. But all three regional centers are gradually moving up in terms of enrollment. But I think we have a lot of other things on our plate at the moment in terms of anticipated needs. I mentioned the business and industry center. We are losing our lease at our current site and are having to negotiate a least at another site. That's an issue that we have to address first. We have still not completed the renovation of our Northwest center. We're two-thirds the way through or three-quarters of the way through, but that's part of our master plan. So there are a series of other steps first, I think. We will continue the community-based sites that we have around the City in terms of at least some initial offerings.
One last thing, my entrepreneurial friend over here to my left and I 2111 2/23/01 - FY '02 OPERATING BUDGET were talking, maybe that we could begin naming rights and selling naming rights to raise some more funds to Community College. That seems to be the fad nowadays.
We will have plenty of things. If you know anyone that would like to take advantage of that.
Or we could wrap Community college in these huge advertisements, wall wraps. (Laughter.)
Thank you. Are there any further questions? Dr. Curtis, thank you so much for all the wonderful work you do. We certainly want to thank everyone who has joined you today. Good luck. Thank you.
This hearing stands in recess until Tuesday at 9 a.m. (Council adjourned at 5:45 p.m.) - - - 2112 C E R T I F I C A T I O N I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of February 23, 2001, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of the same. RE: COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ___________________________ Josephine Cardillo, RPR and Notary Public ___________________________ Lisa C. Bradley, RPR and Notary Public