COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA PUBLIC HEARING BEFORE JOINT COUNCIL COMMITTEES ON PUBLIC HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES AND PUBLIC SAFETY - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, October 12, 1999 2:15 p.m. - - - RESOLUTION NO. 970803 - Calling on City Council's Committees on Public Health & Human Services and Public Safety to hold hearings to examine provisions regulating ownership of vicious dogs, as articulated in Section 10-104 of The Philadelphia Code. PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO, Chair COUNCILMAN DAVID COHEN COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER COUNCILMAN ANGEL L. ORTIZ COUNCILMAN RICHARD T. MARIANO COUNCILMAN FRANK RIZZO - - - VINCENT VARALLO ASSOCIATES, INC. Registered Professional Reporters Eleven Penn Center, Suite 600 Philadelphia, PA 19103 (215) 561-2220 2 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 I N D E X Dr. Kathy Shaw, Physician. . . . . . . . . . . Children's Hospital of Pennsylvania 5 Linda Feder, Private Citizen . . . . . . . . . 16 6 Dog bite victim 7 Richie Feder, Esquire. . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 Deputy City Solicitor, Spouse of Linda Feder William Ferraro, Philadelphia Department . . . 27 of Public Health, Vector Control Captain Allan Kurtz, Commanding Officer. . . . 32 Philadelphia Police Department Canine Unit Betsy Gerhart, Special Education Teacher . . . 60 John B. Kelly School Owner of guide dog attacked by vicious dog Rabbi Philip Goodman . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70 Clinical Chaplain Specialist, VA Medical Center, Coatesville and Philadelphia, dog bite victim Leonard Knox and Gary Lovett . . . . . . . . . 81 Humane Society Police Officers Pennsylvania SPCA Rose Overton, Private Citizen. . . . . . . . . 91 Mother of victim of dog attack Bernard Weaver, Private Citizen. . . . . . . . 96 Victim of dog attack Patrick Harvey, Private Citizen. . . . . . . .100 Owner of boxer dog 3 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 P R O C E E D I N G S
Good afternoon. The committee on -- the Joint Committee on Public Health & Human Services and Public Safety will now come to order. We would like to have the clerk read the resolution into the record, please.
Resolution No. 970803, calling on City Council's Committees on Public Health & Human Services and Public Safety to hold hearings to examine provisions regulating ownership of vicious dogs, as articulated in Section 10-104 of The Philadelphia Code.
Thank you very much. We will begin this hearing now. We're hoping that Councilman Rizzo and Councilman Mariano and Ortiz will join us shortly. However, this is a hearing and not a hearing on an ordinance, so, therefore, we will begin because we're gathering information. I'd like to call on Councilwoman Donna Miller, the sponsor of this resolution, to give opening remarks.
Thank you, Madam 4 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 Chair. Good afternoon. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Councilwoman Tasco and Councilman Ortiz, Chairs for Public Health & Human Services and Public Safety Committees respectfully for calling for this public hearing of Resolution 8 No. 970803. I would also like to thank those private citizens, representatives of City agencies, and members of the professional community for coming to testify before these committees this afternoon. Legislation that effectively reflects the input of all who have, or will be, impacted by a particular subject can only occur with your participation. So, again, I thank you. When I initially introduced this legislation, it was in response to the alarming increase in dog attacks on humans and other dogs. The frequency and severity of such attacks have reached epidemic proportions. My question was, what can we do on a local level to ensure greater accountability from these dog-owners who do not properly train, control, confine or register their dogs. However, to do that, we must first examine 5 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 the current practices and policies in The Philadelphia Code and the applicable statute. It is statute, on its face, that there is a dire need to address this issue within the framework of our legislative powers. This resolution speaks specifically of a number of breeds across the country. There has been increasing pressure to legislate against specific breeds of dogs -- most notably, the pit bull terrier, as they have been implicated in serious attacks on humans and on other animals. Multiple medical associations recognize that aggressiveness in all dogs and the subsequent dangers to the public are largely a product of inappropriate methods of genetic selection, rearing, and training. All dogs that are selectfully bred, reared, or trained for aggressiveness can impose a significant danger. However, we must still return to our basic question that we will seek to address this afternoon: how can we hold owners accountable and not infringe on the freedom of other such animals, yet protect the health, safety, and welfare of citizens of Philadelphia and provide an adequate 6 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 forum to address grievances and enforce penalties. These hearings, I hope, will begin that investigation. Thank you. Thank you for your participation.
Thank you, Councilwoman Miller. The Chair calls on Dr. Kathy Shaw of Children's Hospital to come forward. The testimony today is to gather information. And, hopefully, as Councilwoman Miller has stated, we'll come up with probably some resolution in form of an ordinance, and the ordinance will emanate from the information presented here today. (Dr. Kathy Shaw comes forward.)
Thank you very much for coming. And would you please state your name for the record.
Please proceed with your testimony. Do you have prepared testimony or have you given it to Councilwoman 7 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 Miller?
No, I haven't given her anything but I'd be happy to leave this behind afterward if you'd like me to.
What I brought with me, as I searched our records to -- the question that the Councilwoman posed to me is how often do you see dog bites at the children's Hospital? And I'm the director of the emergency department, and I'll tell you the number of dog bites that we see in our emergency department each year. In the past year, we saw 261 children who were bitten by dogs. So that's roughly out of every days, though it is somewhat seasonal. We see more dog bites in the spring, summer, early fall than, of course, we do in the winter, because children and dogs are more likely to be outside. When we looked at our last statistics from 10 years ago, there were 168 dog bites in our emergency department. So in the last 10 years, looking at 1988-'89 compared to 1998-'99, it's up about 55 percent. I brought also -- one of the other 8 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 questions was, who is affected by dog bites? And very clearly, there's two different profiles, depending on the age of the child. So the younger children, it's often unintentionally provoked, a young child at home with a family dog, you know, who puts their body or their face in the dog's way. And compared to the older children, which are more likely to be bitten out on the street, unprovoked attacks. And the type of injuries vary by the age. So the younger child is more likely to be bit because they're down closer to the dog, in the head or face and in the hands, as opposed to the older children, who are usually trying to defend themselves or push away, so it's usually their extremities. And the types of injuries we see are about a third, a third, and a third. A third of children have lacerations, which are deep cuts requiring closure or sutures. A third have puncture wounds, which are the deep punctures from the dog's teeth, which are more likely to get infected. And a third have a very -- various other things, including abrasions or bruises. 9 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 I brought with me today an article that was published in Pediatrics in 1991 from our institution, and it looked to see the type of dog bites, the breed of the dog, the circumstances surrounding the bite. And I can summarize this by saying that about half of attacks are provoked and about half of the time, they are unprovoked. We can put it that way: half are unprovoked and about half of them are by dogs that are not contained. When you looked by breed, I think the most remarkable thing we found substantiates what the Councilwoman said, which was that with pit bulls, the likelihood that the attack was unprovoked by the child is 94 percent of the time with pit bulls, compared to only 43 percent of the time with other breeds of dogs. So it's twice as likely, a very high percentage. And also that they were more likely, the pit bulls, to be freely roaming animals, and they attack: 67 percent, versus 41 percent for other breeds.
Thank you very much for your testimony. I'd like to recognize that we've been 10 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 joined by Councilman Ortiz, Mariano, and Rizzo. The Chair recognizes Councilwoman Miller.
Actually, you did answer my question when you were summing up the percentages at the end -- one third, one third, one third. Most of the pit bull attacks, were they -- do you know if any were behind gates, behind fences?
Yeah. Again, for the pit bulls, they were freely roaming two-thirds of the time for the pit-bull attacks.
Two-thirds, okay. Doctor, I want to thank you for coming, and please leave us a copy of your testimony. Hold on, Councilwoman Tasco has some questions.
I guess when you were testifying, you did answer the question later. I wrote down, were they -- were most of the dogs, were they with their owners, or were they the owner dog biting the child or someone else's dog biting the child?
I don't have that to that detail. I can tell you that the dog was known, 11 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 like the child could identify the dog -- that might mean the neighborhood dog, however -- three-quarters of the time. It doesn't mean that it was the owner's dog, though.
And again, with pit bulls, it was more likely to be a free-roaming dog than the other breeds of dogs.
So you find that more dogs that are free-roaming are pit bulls rather than other types?
I mean, the entry point of the study was a child had been bitten that was brought to Children's Hospital. 12 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
And the only other thing that I neglected to say is that we have, from the emergency department, about to kids a year 7 that are seriously enough injured that they 8 require hospitalization. 9
Thank you. 10 Are there any questions from any other 11 members of the committee? 12
I'm sorry for being late. The reason I wanted to ask this question, I thought about doing legislation -- somebody asked me before, someone from the SPCA about doing some legislation along this matter, but they wanted to outlaw pit bulls. Now, I've talked to a lot of people, and one of my friends said, Rick, the problem with outlawing pit bulls is then we get into rottweilers, then we get into German shepherds, all that's on this bill. I 13 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 mean, how far down do we go? I mean, do we get to Great Danes, then we're doing the Taco Bell dog last, or -- You know, I'm not trying to be funny, but, you know, there's a golden retriever in the middle there, and there's a lot of people that are very pro-dog in my Council district and in the city.
And there's a lot going wrong with pit bulls out there, you know. I mean, I can see that. You know, I've seen what happened over the years. But where do we end these vicious breed part? I mean, any dog can be vicious. That Heinz 57 variety dog could be just as vicious as a pit bull, but it doesn't have the jaws. And there's a dog with little feet, little legs that has a big jaw from Whales, I forget the name of that, but, you know, he has jaws like a pit bull. Where do we stop? Is there, in your studies, a --
Well, I can, guess, try and answer that just from personal experience, not from the data per se. The data that we have from 14 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 this study did identify the pit bull as the most serious offender, if you want to put it that. Though, there are mixed breeds, there are other types of dogs that have -- that had caused vicious attacks to children. And, again, I agree with you that it's a shame to single out a type of dog. This is just what the data --
If we could single out the owners, it would probably be a lot easier.
Not, it's just what the -- it's what the data shows. And I think you're right, any dog can be vicious. I think that data aside, from a doctor who's worked at Children's Hospital since 1982 and a mother of three, I would never own a couple of breeds of dogs, and the pit bull is one, a rottweiler is another. And, you know, and the children that we see that are bitten by these dogs, if it's known, the family has brought them into the family not as a pet but as a defender of the house, and that usually doesn't mix well with young children. But, again, this study shows that it's beyond that. A lot of these dogs were 15 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 free-roaming, and I think that's more of concern than anything else.
What concerns me, and I see that we have a representative of the Police Department here. What concerns me is that in different neighborhoods, specifically up in North Philadelphia and in certain parts of the Barrio and the East District, pit bulls have been -- and other of this type of very big animal have been used by drug dealers, have been used by -- actually, I've heard of actual fights staged among these dogs that have happened, and I was wondering if you got reports along those lines as to those circumstances occurring and those activities taking place.
Again, I think the Police Department would be able to answer you better because our information comes from the victim. And usually all the child or the family will know is that this was a free-roaming dog. Why the dog 16 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 was free-roaming, I don't know. So, you know, we read the newspapers, too. I can imagine that a dog that's free-roaming is more likely not to be a family pet.
Thank you. Are there any other questions? (No further questions.)
Thank you very much for your testimony. The Chair calls on Miss Linda Feder and Mr. Richie Feder. (Linda Feder and Richard Feder come forward.)
Good afternoon. Would you state your name for the record and proceed.
My name is Linda Feder. And the reason that I'm very interested in this issue -- and I thank you for inviting me here, I'm glad that you're interested in it too -- is because I was attacked by a pit bull terrier on August 20th. I live in the West Mt. Airy section of the city. I was jogging, which is something I 17 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 used to do two or three times a week. I no longer jog in the street. I normally was very careful about avoiding dogs when I jog because dogs have chased me and charged at me, but fortunately, I was never bitten. So I took extra precautions to cross the streets, avoid dogs that were off the leash, which, in our neighborhood, is a very frequent occurrence. On this morning, I was jogging on the sidewalk and I didn't see the dog because it was either coming out of a car or crossing the street behind a car. And by the time I saw the dog -- it was about as close to me as I am to you -- I stopped running and stood perfectly still, which is something I had read that you're supposed to do. The owner of the dog was right there and the dog was not on a leash. It charged me and attacked me, even though she repeatedly called it and told it no. By the time she actually physically came over and pulled the dog away from me, it had bitten me six times. And. . . would you like to know where?
(Nods.) 18 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
The leg and hip area twice, my left thumb, my left wrist, my right upper arm, and also my left breast. I was very terrified and I was screaming, and I think that that brought other people out into the street. Some of them may have even been there in the first place; it's that sort of street, where people just kind of come out in the morning, and there's lots of families, lots of kids. And the woman who had the dog did pull the dog off of me. She didn't say anything to me. She went into the house with her dog, her husband came out and yelled about how that's it for the dog. But neither one of them said anything to me or offered me any sort of assistance. And luckily, though, some of the other people on the street were more helpful. Afterwards -- I mean, I was treated at MCP. I have healed up physically, although I am still very nervous out on the street. I now own pepper spray, which is something that the people 19 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 in the emergency room suggested that I get for sort of for peace of mind. And in Mt. Airy, confronting a dog off a leash is almost a daily occurrence, and it's very frightening for me, and it's not been easy on my children who have to deal with me and my fright, and my husband too. The other thing is, after this incident, I've always felt very strongly that this a dangerous dog. First of all, it should have been on a leash; and second of all, that it was a particularly dangerous dog and I wanted to take some action against the dog. And that's where Richie's going to take over, what we've been through to try to do that.
Good afternoon, Chairwoman Tasco, Chairman Ortiz, Councilmembers. My name is Richie Feder. I am here as a private citizen, not as a member of the Law Department. But I do want to relate to you the difficulty that a private citizen has, even one who is somewhat knowledgeable in the law, in trying to actually take action against the owner of a dangerous dog. There's no question that we would like 20 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 to see a little bit of punishment, but our most important and fundamental concern was to do something about this dog because we've seen the dog on the street since that time, and this dog is likely to -- if it's done it once, it's going to do it again. I just wanted to briefly tell you what I had to do in order to get any action taken. I do want to tell you first that, based on conversations that I've had here with the Health Department and conversations I've had with the Police Department, I think there is a procedure in place where the Health Department and the Police Department can take some action against these types of dogs and the owners of these dogs. But I have to tell you, it is impossible, at least right now, for any private citizen to find out about that procedure. While we were in the emergency room, I called Health Department. My first concern rabies, which we quickly were able to rule out because we were able to determine the dog was vaccinated. But the Health Department assured me -- at least the first person spoke to -- that there was nothing they could do about this dog if 21 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 it hadn't had multiple bites. And since they didn't have a record of a prior bite, there's nothing they could do. The police officer who visited us in the emergency room told me, If you want to take any action against the owner, you should call the District Attorney. That made sense to me, so I looked up the Private Criminal Complaint number in the Legal Directory, I called the District Attorney, I got a recording that said, We're open till 3 o'clock. If you come by at 3 o'clock, we might be closed. I left a message; nobody call me back. I called again the next day. I was told that unless the owner of the dog directed the dog to attack my wife, there is nothing they could do for me. The Private Criminal Complaint Unit, I was told, only handles misdemeanors and above, and incidental attacks like this are mere summary offenses. I went back and did some research. I found a state statute which prohibits -- which authorizes persons who have been attacked or anybody on their behalf or any police officer to 22 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 file an action with a district justice -- and in Philadelphia, that's Municipal Court -- to declare a dog dangerous. And the consequences of such a filing, if the dog is proved to have engaged in a vicious attacks, is that the dog would be ordered to be muzzled whenever it goes outside, and there would be a sign -- must be a placed on the owner's property which warns everybody that there is a dangerous dog on the premises. Presumably, most owners at this point would get rid of the dog. At the same time, my wife tried to call the local police district. After five phone calls, she was able to reach the sanitation officer, who, apparently, is the only one who knows how to deal with dogs in the district, and he assured my wife that he would issue a code violation for not having the dog on a leash. Now, mind you, there had already been two police reports taken on this incident, and nobody had volunteered even to write that notice without my wife's five phone calls. I called back the sanitation officer and suggested to him that he might want to write a violation notice for a dangerous-dog situation so 23 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 that we can declare the dog dangerous, have it muzzled, and perhaps destroyed.
He says he's not authorized to do that because he didn't witness the violation; only if he witnessed it can he do thing but call the DA. So I called the Private Criminal Complaint people back. She assures me again that there's nothing she can do because the owner didn't direct the dog to attack, but she says, There's a lawyer in my office who maybe can help you. She gives me a name and number, I called. Three days calls, he calls me back, he can't help he, but he says, Maybe my boss can help me. I talked to his boss, he's busy, says, Call me back in two days. We talk, he's going to look into it, and he still hasn't called me back. I called the SPCA. The person who answered the phone there said, There's nothing we can do. I talked to the director of the SPCA, who was actually very helpful and professional, and was well aware of the state statute and said, to his knowledge, nobody in Philadelphia has ever enforced that state statute. I found a case out of another county 24 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 where a dog officer from the Department of Agriculture issued the citation to an owner of a dangerous dog. I called the Department of Agriculture, I spoke to the dog officers, and they told me that in Philadelphia, we don't handle the City of Philadelphia, that's a Third District city. The Women's Humane Society handles Philadelphia. I called the Women's Humane Society, nobody returns my call. I say this is ridiculous. I'm a deputy city solicitor, I should be able to figure out how to enforce the dangerous-dog law. I called friends in the Police Department, who, after two weeks, were able to persuade the Police Department to issue a citation, and we do now have a court date coming up on November 1st, where a dangerous-dog claim will be brought against the owner, and, hopefully, the dog will be destroyed. But, frankly, I'm confident that there's nobody else in this city who would have been able to get that done, other than me.
But you didn't 25 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 call your Councilperson.
I, fortunately, have a Councilperson who has taken a strong interest in this issue.
We did call the Neighborhood Association, that was one of our phone calls, too. They were interested in the issue but were not helpful on the legal end of it.
Can I just add something that I just learned, Counselor? That the humane societies will not deal with pit bulls. I've tried to get recently four pit bulls placed at both of the shelters, and they will not take them. We had to reach out and find a group of people, like the greyhounds group, that have a interest in pit bulls, the rescue people, to actually take these pit bulls. So I assume that if the SPCA or the Women's SPCA take a pit bull, it's destined for death, but they wouldn't even accept those pit bulls.
Councilman, to be very candid, I really don't care what happens to this dog; I just want to get it off the street. And I HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 can tell you that there are laws in place which seem to be designed to do exactly that, but in order to get anybody to actually figure out how to enforce it, at least as of this date, I don't think there has been adequate communication, although I will tell you, I think that as a result of my conversations with the Health Department and the Police Department and this Council's hearings, I think something will be done.
Do we have a representative of the Health Department here?
Well, yes, and that's what I was going to do. While they're here, why don't we have the -- Mr. William Ferraro, is he here?
Would you come forward, please. And also I'd like Mrs. Moira Mulroney, from the District Attorney's Office. Is she here? (No response.)
No. It says there's a letter to be read into the record, okay 27 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 then.
Madam Chair, I have a question for the Health Department. May I?
Would you identify yourself again, please for the record.
William Ferraro, F-E-R-R-A-R-O, Philadelphia Department of Public Health, Vector Control.
Mr. Ferraro, doing some research for this hearing, I read something in the Philadelphia Code that's at least troubling to me and I think should be reexamined, and I'll read. "Maximum number of dogs, cats allowed. No 20 residential dwelling unit shall keep a total of more than twelve adult dogs or cats combined on which no more than four may be unneutered unless the Department of Health has been notified and granted a waiver." Twelve -- a combination of twelve cats 28 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 or dogs in a residential unit? Does that include an apartment?
Well, I really believe that something -- well, I don't want to just change it to change it, but how could the Health Department come up with a number of twelve and that be a healthy situation? In an apartment, a person could have twelve dogs legally in the City of Philadelphia.
We did not come up with that number. That was in the Animal Ordinance 15 that was legislated back, I believe, in '86 that was pretty much given to us. I believe the Animal Advisory Committee may have been involved in that number. The Health Department was not --
But what really troubles me here is that the Health Department -- the Department of Health also can grant a waiver to allow a person to have more than a combination of twelve.
Yes, but we never have. We also believe that twelve is too many. 29 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
Well, good, I'm glad to hear that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I have a few neighbors that live in an apartment building, and right now, one of the tenants that had about twelve animals in an apartment and causing havoc throughout the courtyard and the neighborhood, they have a petition going on right now to try to declare her a nuisance tenant. So that's something, I think, that we really need to look at. One of the things -- and I don't know you can't answer this, but when the doctor was testifying and she said that animals are running freely, but doesn't a pit bull have the ability -- and maybe someone here knows -- to just stand still and jump over a fence? Someone told me that they don't have to, like, you know, run and get ready to jump; they could just stand still and just jump right up.
Yes, they can. I mean, they could jump -- some -- some can climb up a fence to get out, and that would be any dog can do 30 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 that. Actually, the laws usually just say "an adequate fence, which would mean -- some dogs won't go over a three-foot fence, no matter how high it can jump. For some dogs, you need not only an eight-foot fence, but you need an enclosure across the top to keep them in. So I don't think you can really put a number on a fence, it's just a matter of it has to be under control. And we do investigate any animals that escape, that's usually what happens. We not only ask for fences to go into the ground so they don't dig out, but also up and over if they're jumpers.
I would think that, Mr. Feder, in your -- with the experience that you just went through you, and I had another constituent that had a very similar experience. This was a child, a kid maybe about ten, who at that point was even afraid to go to school. He was just afraid to walk the street. He had serious injuries in his face and in other parts of his body. Is there a checklist or is there a 31 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 where-to-turn directory or a little educational piece we can get together or put together to give people that are victims of attacks, like your wife, to condense and not make it so frustrating to get through?
Councilwoman Miller, I think that the problem really lies in just making sure that the first line of defense, the police officers, are aware. I was talking with Mr. Ferraro this morning, and he's assured me that the Animal Control Unit is prepared to take action in these cases. I also believe that the Police Department and the DA have the authority to take action in these cases. What we need to do is, when a police officer takes a report in this type of incident -- and there's almost always a police report -- they need to know what it is that a person should do, and it really doesn't matter what it is. I mean, if the City decides that the Health Department wants to take the lead, the police, the DA, I don't think the citizen cares; you just need the police officer to know, This is the process, you should call this number, or we will issue a 32 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 citation and we will contact. But you somebody needs to let the police officer know because that's typically going to be the communication with the City.
Why don't we ask Captain Allan Kurtz to come forward, from the Philadelphia Police Department Canine Unit. Let's have this as a little panel since we're talking about happens. You can stay, Mrs. Feder, at the table. He can bring up another chair. Sorry that you were bitten and. . . (Captain Allan Kurtz comes forward.) CAPTAIN KURTZ: Good afternoon.
Good afternoon. CAPTAIN KURTZ: Would you like me to introduce myself?
Yes, I would. State your name for the record, please. CAPTAIN KURTZ: Sure. It's Captain Allan Kurtz, K-U-R-T-Z, commanding officer of the Police Canine Unit. With me, I also have Police Officer Paul Bryant, who's in charge of our training department, and Paul could probably pick up where I drop off, if need be, so I may be 33 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 referring to him.
Do you have a statement? CAPTAIN KURTZ: Yes. I'm going to give you some statistics that I was able to obtain. Keeping in mind it's not normally my function to keep these statistics, but I was surprised in getting these statistics that there is a problem with centralizing these stats that would be available for Council and that may be built into what we're discussing today, approaching this problem with a resolution. First, I would like to apologize to the two of you for the problems that the Police Department -- that you had with the Police Department. In doing so it and reading everything that we have on it, it is not clearly defined who is the lead agency in these problems. I'm sure you found that out yourself. The Police Department is essentially -- was and we're going to come to -- hopefully, we'll come to some resolutions out of this testimony today. But the Police Department was essentially a reporting agency and just giving 34 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 this information generally to the Health Department and to the SPCA. Enforcement was not clear, other than issuing summary citations, and those are only in cases where the owner of the animal has been identified, the owner and the address. The ability of a police officer to post this problem occurring, then going to that address and having that owner surrender the dog, in my experience -- and it's limited at this point, was very unlikely to occur. As I understand, I read the new law or the new definition of the law that came from Commonwealth Court, and that may put a little bit more, if you'll pardon the expression, bite into the law, that we can maybe we can in the future take a little more action. But, of course, those policies will be made at a level above me, along with the District Attorney's Office, and input from Council, obviously, will make that law. I can give you some of the statistics that were surprising to me, and these are only statistics that were reported to the Police Department. Last year, in 1998, there were 555 cases reported to the Police Department of actual 35 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 dog bites -- and let me make that calendar year from 1/1/98 to 9/30/98, I'm going to make a comparison. This year, to date, there have been 690 in that same reporting period, which is an approximately percent increase. And that is a 7 problem, we all recognize that's a problem. 8
I see a lot of pit 11 bull dogs in neighborhoods that are there, and I 12 see them being walked in the streets by some 13 individuals that are associated with the drug 14 trade and that sort of thing. And it's sort of -- 15 in some neighborhoods, the pit bull has become 16 very much identified with the drug trade and the 17 individuals that do it. 18 And I'd like to find out if you have 19 you have some information about that and what are 20 we doing about it, if anything, in terms of -- as 21 police to make sure that these dogs are not out 22 there. Because they train them to be vicious. I 23 mean, I've seen the training that takes place, and 24 I looked at it, riding around. And I have been 25 told of actual pit bull fights within the 36 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 neighborhoods in which people just go to see these dogs actually get it on. And I'd like to find out what the police is doing, if anything, about this situation. CAPTAIN KURTZ: Councilman, we're aware of the problem. The drug culture, as you're well aware, has taken a liking to pit bull, and many drug houses will have a pit bull for one reason and one reason only -- not just to attack police officers if they should come in contact with a warrant, but to attack anybody who should come near that house. I guess they don't have to pay 'em as much to watch the house or whatever, for whatever reason. We have had in four instances this year. There were -- in reference to warrant service with drugs, there were incidents where the police shot or shot at pit bulls. We've experienced -- last year, there were 38 discharges by police officers at dogs, and of them were 22 pit bulls. 23
At police and when 24 they're arresting some drug dealer or -- CAPTAIN KURTZ: Suspect. 37 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
Some suspect? CAPTAIN KURTZ: Yes, in going to serve warrants.
And there were 38? CAPTAIN KURTZ: There were 38, but these -- let me break it down for you. There were 38 discharges last year by police officers at dogs. Only four of them were in a warrant service. That doesn't exclude the fact that there were a lot of other pit bulls there. But when we go in, we let them know clearly take you take charge of your dog, put him in the backyard, put him -- restrain him in some other part of the house, or we'll do what we have to do. Most of the time, that's successful; some of the times it's not, and it's resulting in shooting the dog or sometimes just shooting at the dog. Interesting, again, of those 21 instances, in the discharges, there were 24 pit 22 bulls, 12 rottweilers. And this won't add up, and 23 I'll explain why. There were 10 boxers; other, 3; 24 and German shepherds 4. For a total of 45 dogs, but there were only 38 incidents where shootings 38 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 occurred.
Has any policemen ever been attacked by a -- I mean been bitten? CAPTAIN KURTZ: Yes. Last year, there were six during these, and some didn't, obviously, have to do with warrant service.
And there was no 9 special license for a pit bull. And, obviously, they, in the City code -- Richie, you would know that -- right? There's no special license?
Probably state -- in fact, I'll just put on a different hat. State law probably prohibits us from distinguishing between breeds.
The equal protection part, right? (Laughter.) CAPTAIN KURTZ: They extend it to everyone.
Could I -- what 39 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 happens to the -- when a police officer is attacked by a vicious dog, what happens to the owner? Are they charged? CAPTAIN KURTZ: Yeah. If the dog is -- yes. We'll -- an agg. assault would be an additional charge and it's outlined in the charges. Interesting, though, once a dog is caught up in the judicial process, the dog is taken to the SPCA where it's kept there until the completion of the judicial process, when it has to have a court order to destroy the dog, if that's the request. If a dog is taken off the street and has bitten somebody, we take that dog into custody, transport it to the SPCA, and it's destroyed within 48 hours.
Well, now, what is the difference -- under what statute do you charge the owner? CAPTAIN KURTZ: There is some weaknesses that I recognize. It's just a summary citation. Normally, if the dog is off leash, etc. These are summary citations. If the dog is used in the commission of a crime, it's considered a 40 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 weapon, and then it's charged accordingly.
Well, if you go to a house and the person has a dog, you're not -- and the dog -- do you consider that, in that instance, a commission of a crime? I guess what I'm trying to get at -- you know what I'm trying to get at -- is, why did they have such a hard time with this dog and having somebody take the dog or cite these people? Or why are they having such a hard time to get some justice, and why not the police officers? We don't want police officers being bitten, we don't want anybody being bitten. OFFICER KURTZ: No, we don't want that.
We want the same treatment for a citizen who has been attacked and as viciously as this lady has been attacked, and whether it's vicious or not, just the attack, and to have the dog continue to roam the street shows, you know, we want that same protection for our citizens. OFFICER KURTZ: We're extraordinarily sympathetic with incidents, any biting incident, and we're frustrated by it because, under the 41 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 current law -- and perhaps that will be changed under the new definition -- there was not a lot we could do unless we arrived and the dog is identified still roaming free, then we could take the dog, and the dog would probably destroyed by the SPCA in a 48-hour period. The frustration factor's built in when we arrive and several people on the block will tell us the dog is down with Mrs. Jones inside a residence, and now we have a problem built in. Do we have a right to enter that residence? It's really a call by the supervisor, it all depends under the circumstances. Generally speaking, a supervisor will opt in a conservative manner and not enter, fearful of suit and problems as a result. And, again, the law doesn't define it clearly. The law, as written, doesn't give us the right to enter a private residence after this crime -- and it is a crime in my mind -- but after this act has taken, it's not defined clear enough for us.
Chairwoman Tasco, if I could just note that in my wife's incident, after the ambulance came and took her to the emergency 42 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 room, the police did come and visit the owner of the dog. And the owner was sufficiently cooperative as to give the police information about the name, the address of the owner, the Social Security number. And so a police incident report was written. My concern is that I don't think the information has gotten down to the police officer that they're supposed to do more than just take the report. CAPTAIN KURTZ: Generally speaking, if I can address that, in those cases where we can identify it, a summary citation has been our limit in the past. And that's -- that's the frustrating part.
But even that wasn't done here. CAPTAIN KURTZ: Yes. And, again, I would hazard a guess that the officer in the street who runs into this situation, unless it's a frequent occurrence, is unaware of that process. So there has to be a process within the department, I'm sure, of educating ourselves. And I learned a lot just since Friday 43 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 by reading some of the statutes in law and some of the cases. And I can understand where the frustration comes from and why the police officers -- I've called several districts and spoke to captains of the districts where these things occur, and they're just as frustrated as anybody else because, generally speaking, we become report-takers. And many times, the child, and a lot of times, the child or an adult has been bitten and already been bitten and they've already been taken from the scene. The information that we get sometimes is complete; many times, it is not complete. So we have very difficult time identifying who owns this dog. And even identifying is a frustrating process because then we can't take an immediate action, we just can't. We have to notify the Health Department and SPCA. I've been in touch, of course, with Charles Spencer of the SPCA, and he's very, very knowledgeable and extremely aware of the problem, tries to address the problems of sending his teams out, patroling these neighborhoods, but I don't have to tell you his resources are limited, just 44 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 like most others, and he can only address the immediate fires. If he sees a pattern evolving, then I think he tries to identify the owner, go to the house, and try to at least get the information that is necessary and give it to the people who have been bitten to at least have some process on that end. Again, his hands are as tied as ours is regarding going in and taking out that dog. But I can tell from you experience when I've been on the street, if there's a dog-biting incident and a child or another dog, whoever has been bitten, and if that dog is available and in a yard, that dog's going, I'm taking it out. If I go to that house and the people are uncooperative, I will get that dog out of that house, I guarantee you. But that was just -- and I'm a dog lover, I own dogs. But nothing makes me more angry, especially being in charge of the unit that I am, that there are dogs that are without control, that can do this to the public at large. And it's just -- it ends up with incidents such as this. 45 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
I have a letter from the District Attorney's Office, and Mr. Feder testified something to the effect that the dog had to have a history of -- because the dog -- because they didn't have any reported incidents of the dog biting someone else, it --
The old dangerous-dog law had been interpreted to require one additional bite before any prosecution could be taken, but that is no longer the case. And I think it's taken a little bit of time for that word to get down to the street.
All right. Are there any other questions? Councilman Mariano?
Yes. In terms of this problem with you, Mr. Feder, so I guess we got to bump this law up from serious to more serious instead of summary. And I know that's something that you would probably wind up reviewing, right?
In your professional capacity, what would you suggest we 46 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 do as Councilpeople besides this? I mean, obviously, if person's dog who bit your wife, if it was a guy who was sitting out there, cleaning his gun and it went off and shot your wife, it would have been a different story, God forbid, but it's still his property, and this dog should be -- you know, he should be charged with almost the same crime.
Councilman, I think your analogy is a very good one because the law enforcement process clearly would have taken a very different turn.
Right, they would have gone in and took the gun, and he would have never got the gun back. Even if he was found innocent, it would have took forever. What can we do -- I'm not a lawyer, you're a lawyer, and there's one lawyer here at the table, thank God. What can we do? I mean, besides -- I know we got to enact legislation, but what --
I mean, I know 47 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 you've thought about it this.
As a private citizen, Councilman, I will tell you that the two things that need to be done -- neither of which involve legislation -- are, you need to prevent these incidents by getting the word out that people are supposed to keep their dogs on a leash. Now, whether that means more enforcement by the police or more just communication to the public that it's unacceptable for your dog to be walking without a leash in order to avoid these incidents.
And the City's doing that right now, 'cause I know, in Councilwoman Krajewski's area, and I've asked for that, there's a whole initiative with one of the departments -- I think it was Mr. Marrone's department about two weeks ago, where -- not quite this vicious part, but people are walking their dogs in recreation fields, and it's -- you know, they're all coming in cars and they're walking their dogs somewhere in Wissinoming. And the Councilwoman got somebody out there, and they're coming up my way and may the other Councilpeople's way, and they're going sure -- you're right, the 48 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 leash law has to be enforced.
Well, I think you need to get the word out that that should be done citywide.
And, number two, and when, in fact, these horrible incidents do occur, we need more Captain Kurtzes out there. I mean, you know, his reaction was exactly the right reaction: that dog is getting out of here. And that's clearly not the reaction of the typical street -- officer on the street. They have that authority right now. I -- I personally don't think they need any more authority. I think the problem is getting the word out, that they need to use it, and getting the word to the public so that the police officer tells the victim that you have these rights, and this is what you need to do -- although the onus really shouldn't be put on us; it really should be put on the law enforcement agent, who did go to the house and take a report.
And I don't think there's a captain in the City of Philadelphia 49 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 that's going to give some patrolman a hard time because he takes the initiative to remove a dog like this captain suggested we do. I mean, once it's a matter of public record and -- they're probably busy doing a lot of things and didn't really know -- I don't know who that officer was or how long he's been a policeman, he or she, how long it takes. But I think once something like this becomes public -- and maybe through the media, it will -- there's probably a lot of policemen who are going to start saying, I didn't know I could do that. Let's admit it, they're cops, they're not lawyers at this point. They know a little bit about the law, but as far as interpreting the law is what we need to tell them what to do. And, thank God, the captain, you know, has the intestinal fortitude to do that. 'Cause there's a lot of things with the dogs in the City of Philadelphia, from dogs barking. Like we have a law now that we're going to plan on doing something to real soon where if a dog barks unprovoked for more than 15 minutes -- now, try to get the SPCA involved in that, try 50 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 calling the Vector Control at 2 o'clock in the morning like I've been calling, 'cause it's right around the corner from my house. People will think you're nuts, but, you know, if you're out working all day and a dog's barking five hours straight, what's unprovoked, what's an unprovoked bark? Somebody walks by and the dog's unprovoked? This is the problem, who gets to make that call? CAPTAIN KURTZ: Just so you know, in 1998, there were 4310 vicious-dog calls, okay, that the police actually responded to, of which -- that did not include this 739 actual dog bites that were reported. So there is a problem, there's no question. Are we adequately addressing the problem? We're working on it, we're aware of the problem, we've had meetings about it. In fact, the Canine Unit, we've taken something of a lead. We've been beginning to train with tranquilizer rifles, which are actually CO2-propelled, to try -- and it's difficult, but to try to be available on a 24-hour basis and have all canine officers trained on it so that if a call comes in see, we 51 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 can tranquilize the dog and then take it out.
So if I hear dog barks at 2 o'clock in the morning, do I call you? CAPTAIN KURTZ: Well, we won't tranquilize them for that. We will advise you by the law, but we're talking -- there are barking-dog calls, by the way, and there were only 280 last year. But we won't include that in vicious-dog calls as well, okay? So the Police Department recognizes that there is a problem. Hopefully, Council will have some impact put, and we could probably change or upgrade the current rules and laws regarding the licensing, giving it, again, a little more bite so that a police officer's more comfortable in his role, and everybody involved in it, the roles are a little more defined so that we know when and where, and we can respond quicker. Dogs off of leashes -- I walk my dogs all the time and I see constantly dogs off the leash. And it's all I can do to keep my big mouth shut. I'm not in uniform, I'm not going to take an action. However, I will let -- if there's a police car in the area, I will let 'em know, go 52 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 tell that person. The one thing that I've heard most often with people who walk dogs off the leash is, "Gee, he never did that before."
Mm-hmm, the first and only time. Let me ask you, how many people have been cited for violations of the leash law? Do you have that number? CAPTAIN KURTZ: I do not have that, that wasn't available. I will get back to you on that. We're attempting to get those numbers. It's very difficult to find out because it wasn't computerized in a manner that we can pull it right out. I promise you that I will get back to you with those numbers.
Okay. Because, certainly, as Mr. Feder said, that's where it starts. I'm sure your neighbors are very responsible people -- until it came to their dog being off the leash, getting out of the car in the morning. But one of the things that I would like to do is to put together a task force similar to 53 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 what you just said that you'd like to do, with informing police officers and the public. However, you know, when we did our research too on the legislation that's on the book, it was like trying to get through a crazy barrier because one person told you this, another thing says that. And we realized too pretty much, right before this hearing, maybe a few days ago, that we really need to sit down and review everything carefully and try to come up with some type of legislation that would deal with all of the particular issues. And we also have a state representative that's working with us just in case there's something that needs to be done at the state level. And then, you know, we found out that the State really doesn't have any control over Philadelphia's dog laws, but the DA had sent a statement here that kind of bounces us back to the State. So we do need to sit down, and I'd like -- I'd welcome people from the City departments to join the task force so that we can come up with this. This is a serious public safety issue in my district and, I'm sure, in districts across the City. And this is something that we really, 54 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 really, really want to target for upgrading. We want to protect our citizens and we're taking this very seriously. I know of a woman who was in her back yard hanging clothes, one of our constituents, and the dog jumped the fence and attacked her. And she said it kept going for her throat. She's had four operations on her wrist, she's had knee replacement, all kinds of things. So this is something that we are taking very serious. Thank you.
Let me just ask Mr. Ferraro a question. Is it the responsibility of your Animal Control Unit to publicize and educate the community about the ownership responsibility?
Currently, with the reinstatement or the pushing of the pooper scooper, Operation Scoop and the leash laws, we've been using educational literature. We're not out there giving tickets to people. Initially, we're out there with pamphlets and handing out information such as their dog should be licensed, it should be vaccinated, and that also there's a 55 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 leash law where their animal needs to be leashed. And actually, we've been, in some cases, giving out leashes to some people initially, to get the ball rolling and let them realize that this is a problem in the City.
You said you don't give tickets. Are you authorized to issue citations?
Yes. It's a code violation notice that -- actually, we work with the police with that, but it's a $25 offense, similar to parking ticket. And if they're not paid, the prices would go up, due to the fact of court hearings.
Okay, are there any other questions? (No further questions.)
Thank you very much. Would you like to make any further comments?
No, just thank you very much on behalf of my wife and myself for taking an interest in this issue.
Thank you very 56 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 much. We will now call on -- I guess, for the record, we should read the -- I'll have the clerk read the letter from the DA's Office regarding this issue. That will place the agencies, the City agencies on record in terms of how they deal with this issue. And then we'll go to the community discussions.
Dear Councilwoman Miller: Lynne Abraham received your invitation to address City Council regarding the problem of vicious-dog attacks. However, the District Attorney is out of town and will not be able to testify. I am writing to provide some information about the Pennsylvania dangerous-dog law and our office's response to cases involving dog attacks. In 1990, the dog law was amended to include a Dangerous Dog Section (3 P.S. Section 20 459-501-A through Section 459-507-A) to regulate the conduct of dangerous dogs and create the criminal offense of "harboring a dangerous dog." The owner of a dog commits a summary offense if the dog has (i) inflicted severe injury on a human being without provocation on public or private 57 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 property; (ii) killed or inflicted severe injury on a domestic animal without provocation while off the owner's property; (iii) attacked a human being without provocation; or (iv) been used in the commission of a crime. Furthermore, the dog must have either (or both) a history of attacking human beings and/or domestic animals without provocation or propensity of doing so, which can be proved by a single incident. See 3 P.S. Section 11 459-502-A(A). This law permits a complaint to be made to a Municipal Court judge by the person attacked, their representative, an owner of a domestic animal that had been injured or killed without provocation, the State dog warden or a police officer. If the judge makes the determination that a person is guilty of harboring a dangerous dog, the judge is to report the dog to the Bureau of Dog Law Enforcement. The owner must then register the dog, keep the dog confine or muzzled and leashed, and obtain liability insurance to cover any person injured by the dog. See 3 P.S. Section 459-503, Subsection A. An owner who violates the Dangerous Dog 58 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 Law by failing to register and restrain their dangerous dogs commits a misdemeanor of the third degree. If a dangerous dog attacks a person or animal because of the owner's intentional, reckless, or negligent conduct, the owner is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree. If the attack causes severe injury or death, it is a misdemeanor of the first degree. See 3 P.S. Section 459-505, Subsection A. Most importantly, the Dangerous Dog Law provides that any local ordinances relating to dangerous dogs are abrogated; that is, preempted by State law. See 3 P.S. Section 459-507-A, Subsection C. The Philadelphia District Attorney's office handles some cases involving dog attacks. The law is set up to allow a person to file a complaint with the Municipal Court judge. Our Private Criminal Complaints Unit does investigate and prosecute approximately one case every six to eight weeks. Another manner in which dog-attack cases are seen is when the owner of a dog commands the dog to attack. Those cases are rare, about 59 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 one or two a year, and are treated as assaults. We charge the owner with aggravated assault. See Pa.C.S. Section 2702, simple assault, 18 5 Pa.C.S. Section 2701, recklessly endangering 6 another person, 18 Pa.C.S. Section 2705, and 7 possession of an instrument of crime, 18 Pa.C.S. 8 Section 907. Essentially, the owner is charged 9 with using the dog as a weapon, as in the case of 10 a drug dealer sicking a dog on a police officer, 11 who subsequently shot the animal to save his own 12 life. 13 We hope that this information helps in 14 your laudable to effort to examine the regulations 15 of ownership of vicious dogs. Please feel free to 16 contact me if I can be of further assistance on 17 this issue. 18 Sincerely, Moira Mulroney, Assistant District Attorney, Legislation Unit, District Attorney's Office.
Thank you very much. The Chair calls on Miss Betsy Gerhart. (Betsy Gerhard comes forward.)
Good afternoon. 60 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 Would you please state your name for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Yes. My name is Betsy Gerhart. I am a special education teacher at the John B. Kelly School, at Pulaski and Hansbury Streets. I've been working at that particular school for ten years. I've used a guide dog as my means of mobility since 1974. On October 19th, I went to school, as I usually do, took my stuff to my classroom, put my lunch away, and then walked out to the door, the parking lot door, which is right near the gym, to meet the children coming off the buses. All of my students take buses to and from school. That particular morning, I happened to be the first one there. And I sat down on one of the chairs to wait for the bus, the first bus to come. At the time, I had a chocolate lab, whose name was Cody. I had had Cody for approximately four years at that time. I heard the first bus pull up, and I went outside and got a little boy named Sam, who was in a wheelchair. I brought him back into the building and locked his brakes on his chair so 61 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 that the chair could not go anywhere. I turned around to go out to get another student. And at that point, one of the assistants -- her name is Darlene James -- who works in the class next door to me came in with one of students, and her name is Talia, she's also in a wheelchair. She put Talia next to Sam and locked her brakes and turned around to go out to the bus. And as she went out the door, she yelled to me, Betsy, there's a dog in the building. And I said, okay, no problem, because there's been lots of dogs in the building occasionally, and I've never had a problem. I was standing right next to Sam and was about to go out the door to get another child, and this dog came from within the school, past the cafeteria, where there were lots of children eating breakfast, past the kitchen, past kindergarten rooms, and to this hall door, must have seen my dog Cody, and came charging through the door and attacked my dog. I was holding my dog's harness and leash, ready to walk. And I immediately, when the dog started growling, I immediately dropped the 62 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 harness and gave Cody as much freedom as I could. The dog was jumping all over him, growling. Cody just kept moving around in a circle, which ended up to be a circle. I wasn't sure where I was at that point. I'm totally blind, I cannot see at all. I was very concerned about protecting Cody, protecting myself, and not to be, last but least, certainly the two student who were sitting there. They were totally defenseless. If that dog had turned on them, there would have been nothing they could have done. I just kept moving. Wherever Cody moved, I went with him. And all of a sudden, I heard this thud, and it turned out that Darlene James, the assistant I told you about earlier, had grabbed an empty wheelchair, picked up the chair, and started hitting the pit bull with the chair to try and get him off Cody. At that moment, Ed Hartman, who is a colleague, another special education teacher, came through the door, saw what was happening, unbelievably went up and grabbed this dog, and literally wrestled him to the ground, and dragged 63 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 him outside. At that point, Darlene put the chair down and told me to go, but I was so disoriented and so upset, I didn't know which way to go. So she pointed me in the direction and got me going toward the hall door, which someone had closed in the midst of all this. I think I remember saying to her, Are the kids okay? and she said, yes, just go, just go. So I went through the door. And my principal, John Hackman, Dr. John S. Hackman, was standing on the other side of the door. And I heard him say into his walkie-talkie, Call the police, call the police, we have an emergency. So at that point, he said, Betsy, are you okay? And I just started crying. He said, Is Cody okay? And I couldn't answer him.
I literally got down on my knees in the middle of the hallway and tried to check Cody out. There were lots of wet places on his body. I couldn't tell at that point whether it was blood or saliva or what it was. One of my assistants came up at that point, and Dr. Hackman told her to help me get to 64 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 the nurse's office. We went to the nurse's office. I was hysterical. Mrs. Garber, the school nurse, checked out Cody, and most of the wetness that I had felt was just saliva, thank God. There was one wound on his right rump area. After I finally got calmed down, which took quite a while, about ten, fifteen minutes, I immediately called my vet, which is Rau -- R-A-U -- Animal Hospital, which is located in Glenside, Pennsylvania. I called them and asked them -- told them what had happened and asked them what I should do, if anything. And they said, Well, you need to clean the wound. And I said, Well, the nurse has done that. And I said, He's very subdued, he's very quiet. And the doctor said, Well, you need someone to look at his gums. If they're very pale, then you're in trouble, and he needs medical attention immediately because he has gone into shock. If they're okay, if they look like they normally do, then you're okay. So I had the nurse look at his gums. And she said no, they were not pale. And kind of about that time, he started to kind of rebound a little bit and get a little more 65 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 like himself. At that point, I went out into the school lobby, on my way back to the classroom. And there were two police officers there, and I introduced myself to them, and I told them that I wanted charges pressed immediately, and they didn't really respond to that. They just kind of ignored that. And I said, Where is the dog, what happened to the dog? And they said, He's in the wagon outside. And I said, What are you going to do with the dog? And they said, We're going to take it to the SPCA at Erie Avenue. And I said, Thank you very much, that dog should not be on the street. I was told later that day, by someone who works at my school, that they had seen that dog kill a cat that morning. Somehow -- I don't quite know how now -- I think I just felt like I had to keep going because if I didn't, I'd fall apart, I worked the rest of the day and I taught my class and kept a very close watch on Cody. And at the end of the day, I left school and went home -- or went to the vet on my way home and had them check him out. I had to apply medication to the wound for about ten 66 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 days to prevent any infection and basically just keep a real close watch on him. After I got home, I called the SPCA. I asked where the dog was -- if the dog that had bitten my dog had rabies, and they told me they didn't know, they hadn't tested for that. And I got upset and I said, This is a guide dog that this dog attacked and I need to know if that dog has been vaccinated. Well, they couldn't tell me that. And after, I guess, about the third person on the phone told me that the dog had been released to the owner. This is about six hours later after this attack, maybe seven hours later after this attack. I was absolutely fit to be tied, very angry and very frustrated, very hurt, needless to say. I just couldn't believe it. I then called the 14th Precinct and spoke with a very nice officer, Officer Stevenson. He gave me the police report number, he gave me the names of the officers who had responded to the call, which I don't remember now, but -- and he told me that he would try to look into things more because he was absolutely appalled after I told 67 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 him my story, that the SPCA had released this dog. So the next day, he -- we talked to him again, my husband and I, and he said he was still checking into things and that he would get back to me.
Well, he did get back to me and he told me that he had taken my story to his captain -- I believe his name is Captain Nestle -- and that Officer Walsh, the public relations officer, would be getting in touch with me, and that they were following up to try to get the owner's name from the SPCA. I, on several occasions, attempted to call Charles Spencer, the director of the SPCA, and could never reach him and would leave messages, and they were never -- my calls were not returned until much later. In fact, I didn't speak to him until after the police spoke to him.
Could you kind of 68 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 summarize the rest of your testimony, please.
Oh, I'm sorry. You said you had tried to reach the SPCA director.
We -- the case -- Officer Walsh came and met with me, told me the detective's name on the case would be Detective Grabloski, and that he would be looking into things. The owner's name was Nelson Brown, and I understand from Mr. Spencer at the SPCA that this dog had been loose and picked up by the police on several other occasions. On October 28th, my husband spoke to Detective Grabloski after I had made many attempts. And the problem was that he was working midnight to 8, or whatever the police shift is and -- but he did not return my call. So finally, my husband happened to reach him, told him the situation, and asked what was happening in the investigation. And he basically said, Well, I think this is a school matter, and my husband 69 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 assured him that it was more than a school matter, that there are state laws that protect guide dogs and other service dogs. On November 10th, Detective Grabloski called me and told me he had spoken with someone from the District Attorney's Office, and that because the owner was not present and had not directed his dog to attack me or my dog, that there was nothing that could be done. I find this deplorable and I'm very glad that someone's trying to do something because people and guide dogs need to be protected. Unfortunately, I lost Cody about five months later due to an unrelated medical condition and -- but I still have to worry every time I walk around school that this dog or some other dog will come after my new dog, Chase. It was a horrifying experience, one that I never want to go through again.
Thank you very much. And to your knowledge, this dog is still roaming around?
Okay. 70 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 Councilwoman, do you have anything? Thank you very much for testifying. We appreciates it very much.
Rabbi Philip Goodman, Chaplain of the Veterans' Administration. Then we have then Mr. Leonard Knox and Mr. Gary Lovett. (Rabbi Goodman comes forward.) Good afternoon.
My name is Rabbi Philip Goodman. I'm Clinical Chaplain Specialist of the VA Medical Center in Coatesville, Pennsylvania, and in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I was asked by one of the attorneys of the City Council, Miss Brickland, to come and testify. She came to court with me when my case came up. But I was attacked by a neighbor's rottweiler. And while here, I'd just like to 71 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 emphasize the effects on the victims psychologically, which is a very devastating effect. In my case, I was operated on my arm, I had broken -- my leg had been broken, trying to escape from this dog. Luckily, I have two neighbors to the one side of me who are physicians and rescued me really from this dog and then called the police. Not only do I want to emphasize the effect to the victim -- namely me and all the other people here -- of having post-traumatic stress disorder, which is a very serious order, either from combat or a domestic trauma, and it will have a lifelong effect. And, incidentally, I'm a person who treats post-traumatic stress disorder, and I've had some post-traumatic stress before this, but it's amazing how devastating this has been to me. Even as I talk about it now, some of these, you know, memories come back to me, and it's changed my life quite a bit. I don't want to read a whole thing here, but I also want to emphasize the reaction of the Board of Health dog supervisor and what 72 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 happened when we called a Mrs. Keen, and she told us that they were allowing this dog to be brought home. Now, some mention has been made of a second bite, you know, variance in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and I heard also that something has been changed on that. I'm not aware of that, that they can go in and take the dog after the first bite. But this dog, this rottweiler, whom we had complained about lunging over the fence and lunging at children and at old people, finally attacked me. And I would say that I'm glad that it attacked me because if that dog had gotten further away from our area, my yard, that he jumped over into, he probably would have killed a child. It would have roamed the street and killed somebody. Fortunately, I was able to remain standing and to be rescued by my neighbors. But she told us that he must -- that our neighbor must comply with the rules for a vicious dog; that is, a muzzle and a leash. And she told me that these rules would be unenforceable until the dog was declared dangerous in court, which is a procedure 73 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 happening five months after the incident. She advised us to keep a log of any infractions, and we did so, and so did our neighbor. And I have a list here of the infractions that this neighbor did not leash the dog, did not muzzle the dog, while it was still sent home from the SPCA pound after maybe four or five days. There are at least fifteen dates here that my neighbor and my wife have noticed that the dog was out without a muzzle outside, without a leash, had broken through a screen. We could see a window where the dog was trying to get out through that screen of the neighbor's house, and many occasions where there was no muzzle on the dog.
Excuse me, Rabbi. Did the police or anyone intervene at any of these times?
No. We were told by the Board of Health individual, this Mrs. Keen, that she had no power to enforce this, so we didn't call anybody. She told us that there was no way to enforce it.
And that was it? 74 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
And that was it. My neighbor -- when I went and saw the dog unleashed, after I was --
Second of all, I had already had a big doze of (unintelligible) yesterday. I didn't even want to look at this person. I went outside once and told him that dog has to be leashed and muzzled, and he told me he was going to beat the crap out of me. He even called me in the hospital and told me that if I make any problem with him about the dog, there's going to be a big problem.
And, you know, that is a big problem because some of the people will --
And I'm emphasizing that the people who own these dogs -- 75 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
-- will threaten you. Second of all, I observed, and I have on videotape, this man and the son of this man kicking the dog, abusing the dog, and we suspect that it was a badly genetically, you know, kind of misformed dog. But I mean, I also want to emphasize that people who own such animals tend to be totally irresponsible, somewhat psychopathic, and they don't care. There was a 90-year-old man who walked by this man's house before I was bitten, and he threatened that man with the dog.
I did. In 1997, this man -- this is two years afterwards -- threatened me, he had some complaint about the way I trim my bushes. And he said to me, If you don't fix that, I'm going to have your house burned down. I mean, this is a case that -- 76 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
And I called the police. Before the police came over, he ran to my porch and said, Oh, I'm sorry, you know who I am. The man has used drugs, we suspect he's on drugs, the wife is on drugs. And he begged me not to -- you know, I said, All right, if this happens again, I'm putting you on warning. The police came and I told him I had settled with the guy and I don't want to go into it any further. He apologized, he said it's a quirk that he has. And that was the one time that I called the police. The other thing I want to emphasize is that I cannot go out and do my yard work to this day without having a panic attack.
No, no. The dog was taken away -- this was April 1995 that the dog 77 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 attacked me. By October, the dog was removed. I think the insurance company probably threatened him. You know, we won a suit a couple of years later, but he got another rottweiler, and that turned out to be also a threatening dog, and he got rid of that too. I just want to emphasize that for the victims, the loss for the victims of the quality of life -- which I still suffer, I've been under treatment by the former chief of staff of our hospital, who was the former commissioner of mental health for post-traumatic stress disorder. I'm sure the lady who testified at the beginning, she -- I overheard her say she's suffering still. And the children, I mean it's -- will be affected probably for the rest of their life, as we all have. I just have come here to emphasize that it's not about -- it is about a dog or a pit bull or a rottweiler, but nobody talks about, as Councilwoman Miller has talked about. The lady, I'm sure her wounds might heal, I hope so, but this is something that stays with you for the rest of your life in one way or another. And the human 78 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 toll that is -- and this thing can be -- something can be done about it. I just heard that the one-bite law has been changed. I don't know about that, I hope so, that they can remove a dog immediately.
Okay, that's very good, I didn't know that. But I just want to testify, and luckily I know something about it and I know my own head and my own symptoms. I just want to make that emphasis that the human toll, the psychological toll from being attacked by an animal, at every moment, you think you're going to die. I thought I was gone. That's all I want to say.
Madam Chair? Rabbi, I know exactly what you've experienced, and I'm happy to report that I didn't have the same long-term effects, but I was a young lineman for PECO Energy, a troubleshooter at the time, when I walked into an alley, a blind alley where there was only one way out, the way I came in. And a large dog ran me down, and all of the 79 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 training quickly came back, I froze and protected myself the best I could. And he was a large dog. And I'll tell you, every time I get myself in a situation where I'm near an alley, it just -- I remember every mark on that dog and I think I counted every tooth. And to this day, I remember that experience that I had being run down, 'cause I never thought that I was going to get out of the that alley alive. I mean, I was working with 30,000 volts of electricity. And that experience -- that's one experience that I will never forget as long as I live. So I know people that have been attacked in the manner that you described is something that you just can't forget, especially when a dog -- not many people have seen a dog when they become violent and that jowl that comes back, and it's just -- that's not what we normally see in a dog. But when we see it, it is frightful.
Can I ask one question. I missed the very first part of your testimony. Was the dog in a yard without a 80 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 fence?
No, the dog was in a yard with a fence. The dog, they claim, the owners of the dog, that they went away on a Sunday morning. It was Mother's Day, and somehow the dog got out the back door, leaped over the fence, which it had done before -- it's in my testimony here. On a number of occasions, the dog had been seen leaping over the fence, and it entered my yard. I was standing in my yard and it jumped on me.
Oh, okay. I thought there was some kind of laws that we had that had to do with fences being adequately secure and locked to prevent -- if it jumped over the fence, that's one thing. But in some of the cases that we've heard about, the fences weren't properly locked and weren't properly secured. 81 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 Okay.
But many of these dogs are large enough to just leap over, you know, a moderate fence of five feet. That's not a problem.
Okay, thank you, Rabbi. Next? (Leonard Knox and Gary Lovett come forward.)
Leonard Knox, Humane Society Police Officer, with the Pennsylvania SPCA.
Gary Lovett, Humane Society Police Officer, with the Pennsylvania SPCA.
Well, what they were just saying about the fence, we usually enforce the fence for that part, but when the dog is back into his own property by the time we get there, we just can't remove him from off that property because he's back on that his property. But if he was in 82 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 that neighbor's yard at that time, we would remove him.
Okay. He will go to our shelter, and the owner has the rights, by law, to come up and retrieve his animal. But if we have a number of cases where the dog has been at large, we would give him a citation for that. And at the time, they have to produce that they have a rabies inoculation and --
Okay, that's a ticket, like the Health Department was explaining, it's a $25 ticket for the dog running a at large.
He still gets the dog. There's no law saying that we can't give it back unless there's a court order saying so.
If that dog that you 83 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 just described that you picked up were a pit bull, what would you have done with that dog?
Okay, now, the owner of that dog, by us knowing it came out of his yard into the neighboring yard, he would have more proof to get his dog back but he still has to get the City license or produce the rabies license, either one. If he has both, then he has to just pay a --
No, my -- let me -- my question is, the dog jumped over the fence and now he's in my yard.
You show up, it's a pit bull. I am understanding that you will not handle pit bulls, you won't take pit bulls back and keep them alive or --
No, Commissioner. 84 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
A stray pit bull that's wandering around loose in the streets, if he came into our shelter, we would hold that animal for 48 hours for the owner to come in and get it, but the owner has to really prove that this is his dog -- pictures, some kind of ID, something. He has to really prove it. If he can't prove it, we wouldn't give that dog back to him, even though it is his dog.
Okay. The reason you have that policy is because people come into the system and get --
We don't turn any dogs away. I don't know who told you that, Councilman Rizzo.
We -- recently in Roxborough, there was a resident that had three -- don't hold me to the number -- or four pit bulls, 85 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 and their home became inhabitable. And they tried to reach out to get the --
They tried to get those pit bulls taken care of, and the response was no, but we'll refer you to a shelter that deals with pit bulls.
Yeah, Morriston, 3811. And what it is, is, if the animal's brought into us, we will not adopt a pit bull out, and we don't have the facilities to be a boarding kennel so that's why we suggested that they find a boarding kennel to take care of the animals. We do not turn an animal down.
So if they brought the pit bull to you, in 48 hours, that dog would have been dead.
It may be half a half an 86 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 hour later.
It might have been up to the doctor. It's an unwanted animal at that point, it's an unwanted animal.
Excuse me, Councilman. The only way we would adopt out a pit bull if it was someone that found this pit bull on the street and he brought it to us and he wanted to adopt that dog. That's the only way we would adopt it because he didn't have to bring it to us.
Just to finish up -- and again, not all pit bulls are vicious. I have neighbors that have very docile, loving pit bulls, so we're not just condemning a breed of an animal. The majority of the ones that we're familiar with are mean and nasty but there are nice pit bulls, right?
And you wouldn't want to kill one of those unnecessarily.
Well, to be straight with you, we wouldn't want to adopt it out because if it goes into the wrong hands, it's going to wind 87 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 up back at our shelter, in some kind of condition that we wouldn't want to see it in.
What is the dog -- type of dog is it that you get the most complaints about?
In reference to what? Well, for animal biting, it's pit bulls. For shelter, it can be anything.
Animal biting. I guess it's mainly pit bulls we get a lot of calls on. But we don't handle that; that's handled by the Health Department when it's owned.
Okay, let me ask you this, too: do you still go around in trucks and pick up unlicensed dogs? When I was a little girl, I used to see that all the time. I don't really see it that often now.
Yes, we still do that. And if the dog is licensed or unlicensed, if it's not with the owner or it's just running loose, we will pick it up. 88 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
Interesting. I haven't seen it in years, maybe because I'm still working. But have you seen it?
Just to digress a second, that's another thing that I'll remember, that truck with all the little holes for air vents?
I'll never forget when I -- I called them "the dog catcher."
He opened the door and 20 dogs ran out of that truck, and I'll never forget that as long as I --
Well, there's more animal truck on the street daily. There's one at 8:30 in the morning, one at 10:30, one at 11, and one at 3:30. They go out and -- and plus we have four 89 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 (unintelligible) on the street. And the only way we an tell it's animal control, which is the dog catchers, it will have it written on the back "animal control." We receive over 150 animals a day, we have coming into our shelter.
So, basically, if someone has a stray in their area, they could actually call you up.
And at least identify the area and what the dog looks like and you would be on the lookout to pick it up.
Could I ask a question. Maybe you can clarify it 'cause I get a little confused, and I think that I cause some of the confusion. Explain the Women's SPCA. Which organization, again, do you represent?
Well, how many 90 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 different SPCAs do we have and what is the difference? Because I don't know who to tell people to call half the time.
The only SPCA in the City of Philadelphia is the Pennsylvania SPCA. The Women's Humane Society moved to Bucks County.
They come into the city for complaints, like just animal complaint, but not for like running at large or anything like that.
So the only organization we should be dealing with and referring our constituents to is the Pennsylvania SPCA.
Anything else? Thank you very much appreciate. We you coming. 91 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
Is Rose Overton here and Mr. Bernard Weaver? Would you both come up. (Ms. Overton and Mr. Weaver come forward.)
Is there anyone else here to testify on this issue? Come up. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: As a resident and a dog owner, I would like to speak.
Something about vicious dogs? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes, and I want to speak on that.
On June 8th of '97, my son was walking with two of his friends and he was attacked by a pit bull. All he was doing was passing by a neighbor's home. The little boy at the time who lives in the house was nine years old. He opened the gate and let the dog out. 92 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 There was no "Beware of Dog" signs, no locks, no 3 nothing. The dog - if you watch those animal geographic movies, that's what the do did. He went after my son's leg, got him down and went straight for his throat. By Chris being right-handed, he did like this to protect himself. All of this is gone, it's like biting down into a chicken leg. This is all plastic under here. Chris has already had two surgeries on his arms. He was supposed to have a third but the doctor decided to leave well enough alone because he would never be 100 percent. My argument is, nothing happened to that dog, nothing. I called everybody. I called all those people, all those organizations that we have already heard from. Nothing happened, nothing happened to the owners. Those people are still around there, that dog is still around there, and I was told that if anything --
"There" is approximately three blocks from my home. 93 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
Do you want my address or the address where the dog owner --
Well, she's been -- she's -- Miss Overton is one of my constituents, and I'll put the dog's address on record. I don't have it in front of me, but she's another situation where the owners have exhibited some intimidation techniques.
Good. Are you going 94 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 to sue him?
We called everybody. I was told that if anything happens to that dog, I will go to jail.
The police told you that if anything happened to the dog, you would go to jail.
Really, I mean, let's -- we'll have a -- should have a discussion 95 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 with those policemen.
The reason that the dog is protected is because the dog cleared all his shots and the fact that the dog has an owner, that's what saved the dog. That isn't right.
And I remember -- I think they said something about the lock on the gate.
Oh, yeah. Now there's a lock on the gate, now "Beware of Dog" signs are there, but it wasn't there at the time. Only because the child who lived at the house at the time was nine years old, that's why we couldn't sue the child. And it was a mess. I've been everywhere. I went down the District Attorney's Office, I went down to 1801, I went everywhere. Nothing has happened, nothing. The only person who has suffered is my son, is my son. It's been two years. His arm will never be right. I mean, Chris converted back to sleeping with me, wetting the bed, scared to go outside again. We had to get a psychiatrist to come to the house, I mean, to talk him from the front door to the sidewalk. I can show you pictures of 96 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 Christ when he was four months old in a walk, with a full-grown rottweiler, he wasn't afraid of dogs. The rule of thumb is, when a dog charges you, freeze and look away. Chris did that, but if it's a dog that has been trained to attack, that rule doesn't apply. So he did what he was supposed to do.
My name is Mr. Bernard Weaver. I live in Port Richmond, I'm in Joan Krajewski's district. The reason I'm here is because I've been chased and attacked by a rottweiler on three different occasions, and I had a major stroke over it.
Did anything -- did you notify the police about the dog and so on?
Did you notify the 97 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 Police Department?
The owner thinks it's a big joke, that's how he regards the people that complain about his dog. He lets him sit on the porch where there's only a three-foot railing, protecting the persons walking up the street and the home. 98 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
Do you know if the police have ever come out to talk to the owner or cite them for the dog not being on a leash?
From what -- I'm told by the SPCA that he's been cited on three occasions but nothing's still done about the dogs.
Could you give our clerk the address of this owner and so on? I would appreciate that.
Madam Chairman, could I ask the representative of the SPCA to come back to the table because they may be able to deal and explain how they're going to address this issue right now. Could you come back to the table, please,. (SPCA reps return to witness table.)
I don't know what address he's referring to but he said the dog was picked up a number of times. The only thing --
Identify yourself 99 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 for the record, please.
Oh, excuse me. Leonard Knox, Humane Society Police Officer, Pennsylvania SPCA. The only way we can do something is if the court orders us to hold this animal. But every time they come back down there to retrieve it, we have to give it back, give 'em a citation. There's nothing to say, Hold this animal, by the courts.
So the Police Department has to forward and make a criminal charge against this person?
Can't you -- can't the Pennsylvania SPCA, after numerous contacts with the same dog, generate the paperwork that does exactly -- can't you be the complainant about a vicious dog? Now, here's a gentleman that will provide you with the information about the dog, the address, and whatever support the three of us can give to --
Yes, I wanted to hear the 100 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 address so that I can look --
I would like to see that dog picked up, and then we'll deal with the Police Department ourselves, okay?
And, sir, could you get to -- sir, could you get together with these two gentlemen and provide them with the information.
My name's Patrick Harvey, and I'll make this brief. Listening to all these victims and their stories, I feel for them all. And in every one of these stories -- the one gentleman whose wife got bit, you know, he made it the most clear that the laws are in place. 101 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 And, basically, what I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't want to see anything breed-specific. I do not own rottweiler, I do not own a pit bull, I own a boxer, you know, and sometimes maybe there's no --
Well, you know, some animals have a nature and they are bred a certain way. There are bad breeders and there are bad handlers. But the point is, these are people problems, every one of these. And the laws that are in place right now, if they can get enforced, this won't be a problem.
Okay. And that's all -- I wanted to make sure because, like you said earlier, first it's this one, then it's that one, then it's this one, then it's that one. So that's all I wanted to -- that's why I came down here today.
Thanks for taking 102 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 the time.
And, you know, none of this was breed-specific, but it is animal control, and we know it's all on the owners, but I think that we do need to educate the public more about consequences if you don't comply with a certain amount of laws.
Definitely. And the laws, you know, if more laws got put into place, the only people they'd be hurting are the people that really obey the law, because the people who aren't obeying the law would still get these breeds and still break the law, the leash laws and, you know, how they confine their animal.
Thank you very much. Is there anyone else here who would like to testify? (No response.)
If not, then the Joint Council Committees on Public Health & Human 103 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 Services and Public Safety on Resolution No. 3 970803 stands in recess until the call of the Chair. (Adjourned at 4:04 p.m.) - - - 104 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, October 12, 1999, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: JOINT COUNCIL COMMITTEES ON PUBLIC HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES AND SAFETY RESOLUTION NO. 970803 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter