Okay, that's a ticket, like the Health Department was explaining, it's a $25 ticket for the dog running a at large.
He still gets the dog. There's no law saying that we can't give it back unless there's a court order saying so.
If that dog that you 83 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 just described that you picked up were a pit bull, what would you have done with that dog?
Okay, now, the owner of that dog, by us knowing it came out of his yard into the neighboring yard, he would have more proof to get his dog back but he still has to get the City license or produce the rabies license, either one. If he has both, then he has to just pay a --
No, my -- let me -- my question is, the dog jumped over the fence and now he's in my yard.
You show up, it's a pit bull. I am understanding that you will not handle pit bulls, you won't take pit bulls back and keep them alive or --
No, Commissioner. 84 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
A stray pit bull that's wandering around loose in the streets, if he came into our shelter, we would hold that animal for 48 hours for the owner to come in and get it, but the owner has to really prove that this is his dog -- pictures, some kind of ID, something. He has to really prove it. If he can't prove it, we wouldn't give that dog back to him, even though it is his dog.
Okay. The reason you have that policy is because people come into the system and get --
We don't turn any dogs away. I don't know who told you that, Councilman Rizzo.
We -- recently in Roxborough, there was a resident that had three -- don't hold me to the number -- or four pit bulls, 85 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 and their home became inhabitable. And they tried to reach out to get the --
They tried to get those pit bulls taken care of, and the response was no, but we'll refer you to a shelter that deals with pit bulls.
Yeah, Morriston, 3811. And what it is, is, if the animal's brought into us, we will not adopt a pit bull out, and we don't have the facilities to be a boarding kennel so that's why we suggested that they find a boarding kennel to take care of the animals. We do not turn an animal down.
So if they brought the pit bull to you, in 48 hours, that dog would have been dead.
It may be half a half an 86 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 hour later.
It might have been up to the doctor. It's an unwanted animal at that point, it's an unwanted animal.
Excuse me, Councilman. The only way we would adopt out a pit bull if it was someone that found this pit bull on the street and he brought it to us and he wanted to adopt that dog. That's the only way we would adopt it because he didn't have to bring it to us.
Just to finish up -- and again, not all pit bulls are vicious. I have neighbors that have very docile, loving pit bulls, so we're not just condemning a breed of an animal. The majority of the ones that we're familiar with are mean and nasty but there are nice pit bulls, right?
And you wouldn't want to kill one of those unnecessarily.
Well, to be straight with you, we wouldn't want to adopt it out because if it goes into the wrong hands, it's going to wind 87 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 up back at our shelter, in some kind of condition that we wouldn't want to see it in.
What is the dog -- type of dog is it that you get the most complaints about?
In reference to what? Well, for animal biting, it's pit bulls. For shelter, it can be anything.
Animal biting. I guess it's mainly pit bulls we get a lot of calls on. But we don't handle that; that's handled by the Health Department when it's owned.
Okay, let me ask you this, too: do you still go around in trucks and pick up unlicensed dogs? When I was a little girl, I used to see that all the time. I don't really see it that often now.
Yes, we still do that. And if the dog is licensed or unlicensed, if it's not with the owner or it's just running loose, we will pick it up. 88 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
Interesting. I haven't seen it in years, maybe because I'm still working. But have you seen it?
Just to digress a second, that's another thing that I'll remember, that truck with all the little holes for air vents?
I'll never forget when I -- I called them "the dog catcher."
He opened the door and 20 dogs ran out of that truck, and I'll never forget that as long as I --
Well, there's more animal truck on the street daily. There's one at 8:30 in the morning, one at 10:30, one at 11, and one at 3:30. They go out and -- and plus we have four 89 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 (unintelligible) on the street. And the only way we an tell it's animal control, which is the dog catchers, it will have it written on the back "animal control." We receive over 150 animals a day, we have coming into our shelter.
So, basically, if someone has a stray in their area, they could actually call you up.
And at least identify the area and what the dog looks like and you would be on the lookout to pick it up.
Could I ask a question. Maybe you can clarify it 'cause I get a little confused, and I think that I cause some of the confusion. Explain the Women's SPCA. Which organization, again, do you represent?
Well, how many 90 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 different SPCAs do we have and what is the difference? Because I don't know who to tell people to call half the time.
The only SPCA in the City of Philadelphia is the Pennsylvania SPCA. The Women's Humane Society moved to Bucks County.
They come into the city for complaints, like just animal complaint, but not for like running at large or anything like that.
So the only organization we should be dealing with and referring our constituents to is the Pennsylvania SPCA.
Anything else? Thank you very much appreciate. We you coming. 91 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
Is Rose Overton here and Mr. Bernard Weaver? Would you both come up. (Ms. Overton and Mr. Weaver come forward.)
Is there anyone else here to testify on this issue? Come up. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: As a resident and a dog owner, I would like to speak.
Something about vicious dogs? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes, and I want to speak on that.
On June 8th of '97, my son was walking with two of his friends and he was attacked by a pit bull. All he was doing was passing by a neighbor's home. The little boy at the time who lives in the house was nine years old. He opened the gate and let the dog out. 92 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 There was no "Beware of Dog" signs, no locks, no 3 nothing. The dog - if you watch those animal geographic movies, that's what the do did. He went after my son's leg, got him down and went straight for his throat. By Chris being right-handed, he did like this to protect himself. All of this is gone, it's like biting down into a chicken leg. This is all plastic under here. Chris has already had two surgeries on his arms. He was supposed to have a third but the doctor decided to leave well enough alone because he would never be 100 percent. My argument is, nothing happened to that dog, nothing. I called everybody. I called all those people, all those organizations that we have already heard from. Nothing happened, nothing happened to the owners. Those people are still around there, that dog is still around there, and I was told that if anything --
"There" is approximately three blocks from my home. 93 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
Do you want my address or the address where the dog owner --
Well, she's been -- she's -- Miss Overton is one of my constituents, and I'll put the dog's address on record. I don't have it in front of me, but she's another situation where the owners have exhibited some intimidation techniques.
Good. Are you going 94 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 to sue him?
We called everybody. I was told that if anything happens to that dog, I will go to jail.
The police told you that if anything happened to the dog, you would go to jail.
Really, I mean, let's -- we'll have a -- should have a discussion 95 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 with those policemen.
The reason that the dog is protected is because the dog cleared all his shots and the fact that the dog has an owner, that's what saved the dog. That isn't right.
And I remember -- I think they said something about the lock on the gate.
Oh, yeah. Now there's a lock on the gate, now "Beware of Dog" signs are there, but it wasn't there at the time. Only because the child who lived at the house at the time was nine years old, that's why we couldn't sue the child. And it was a mess. I've been everywhere. I went down the District Attorney's Office, I went down to 1801, I went everywhere. Nothing has happened, nothing. The only person who has suffered is my son, is my son. It's been two years. His arm will never be right. I mean, Chris converted back to sleeping with me, wetting the bed, scared to go outside again. We had to get a psychiatrist to come to the house, I mean, to talk him from the front door to the sidewalk. I can show you pictures of 96 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 Christ when he was four months old in a walk, with a full-grown rottweiler, he wasn't afraid of dogs. The rule of thumb is, when a dog charges you, freeze and look away. Chris did that, but if it's a dog that has been trained to attack, that rule doesn't apply. So he did what he was supposed to do.
My name is Mr. Bernard Weaver. I live in Port Richmond, I'm in Joan Krajewski's district. The reason I'm here is because I've been chased and attacked by a rottweiler on three different occasions, and I had a major stroke over it.
Did anything -- did you notify the police about the dog and so on?
Did you notify the 97 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 Police Department?
The owner thinks it's a big joke, that's how he regards the people that complain about his dog. He lets him sit on the porch where there's only a three-foot railing, protecting the persons walking up the street and the home. 98 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803
Do you know if the police have ever come out to talk to the owner or cite them for the dog not being on a leash?
From what -- I'm told by the SPCA that he's been cited on three occasions but nothing's still done about the dogs.
Could you give our clerk the address of this owner and so on? I would appreciate that.
Madam Chairman, could I ask the representative of the SPCA to come back to the table because they may be able to deal and explain how they're going to address this issue right now. Could you come back to the table, please,. (SPCA reps return to witness table.)
I don't know what address he's referring to but he said the dog was picked up a number of times. The only thing --
Identify yourself 99 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 for the record, please.
Oh, excuse me. Leonard Knox, Humane Society Police Officer, Pennsylvania SPCA. The only way we can do something is if the court orders us to hold this animal. But every time they come back down there to retrieve it, we have to give it back, give 'em a citation. There's nothing to say, Hold this animal, by the courts.
So the Police Department has to forward and make a criminal charge against this person?
Can't you -- can't the Pennsylvania SPCA, after numerous contacts with the same dog, generate the paperwork that does exactly -- can't you be the complainant about a vicious dog? Now, here's a gentleman that will provide you with the information about the dog, the address, and whatever support the three of us can give to --
Yes, I wanted to hear the 100 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 address so that I can look --
I would like to see that dog picked up, and then we'll deal with the Police Department ourselves, okay?
And, sir, could you get to -- sir, could you get together with these two gentlemen and provide them with the information.
My name's Patrick Harvey, and I'll make this brief. Listening to all these victims and their stories, I feel for them all. And in every one of these stories -- the one gentleman whose wife got bit, you know, he made it the most clear that the laws are in place. 101 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 And, basically, what I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't want to see anything breed-specific. I do not own rottweiler, I do not own a pit bull, I own a boxer, you know, and sometimes maybe there's no --
Well, you know, some animals have a nature and they are bred a certain way. There are bad breeders and there are bad handlers. But the point is, these are people problems, every one of these. And the laws that are in place right now, if they can get enforced, this won't be a problem.
Okay. And that's all -- I wanted to make sure because, like you said earlier, first it's this one, then it's that one, then it's this one, then it's that one. So that's all I wanted to -- that's why I came down here today.
Thanks for taking 102 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 the time.
And, you know, none of this was breed-specific, but it is animal control, and we know it's all on the owners, but I think that we do need to educate the public more about consequences if you don't comply with a certain amount of laws.
Definitely. And the laws, you know, if more laws got put into place, the only people they'd be hurting are the people that really obey the law, because the people who aren't obeying the law would still get these breeds and still break the law, the leash laws and, you know, how they confine their animal.
Thank you very much. Is there anyone else here who would like to testify? (No response.)
If not, then the Joint Council Committees on Public Health & Human 103 HEALTH, HUMAN SVCS. & SAFETY - RES. 970803 Services and Public Safety on Resolution No. 3 970803 stands in recess until the call of the Chair. (Adjourned at 4:04 p.m.) - - - 104 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing proceedings of the Council of the City of Philadelphia of Tuesday, October 12, 1999, were reported fully and accurately by me, and that this is a correct transcript of same. RE: JOINT COUNCIL COMMITTEES ON PUBLIC HEALTH & HUMAN SERVICES AND SAFETY RESOLUTION NO. 970803 __________________________________, JOSEPHINE CARDILLO, Registered Professional Reporter