Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Back to the boiler questions, I might have missed some of this, so forgive me. How many high-pressure boilers are left, Karen?
So you don't need an engineer at any of these buildings?
So there is none of those left. The Councilman was asking you questions about apprentices. Let's bring this thing to a simple term. We have a school somewhere, a small school, and it is not a high-pressure boiler, so someone could be there maybe in the morning to check it out, go somewhere, and come back, go to another school. He or she gets in her car and rides to 178 another school close to there, or they go from North Philly to Southwest Philly?
I have seen it work -- certainly it hasn't been tried in Philadelphia, but, for example, you could group buildings under a certain square footage. Let's just say it is under 50,000 square feet, 30,000 square street. Nobody is quibbling with the larger size building and the presence of a building engineer being there. Incidentally, they are some of our finest workers out there, so we're not implying anything on that, but we have seen systems where you have gone to the smaller square footage buildings. I start in the morning very early. I go to the first building and it is fine. I go on to the second building, yada, yada, stay the day at the final building.
For instance, the oldest public school that I'm familiar with is Francis Hopperson School. I don't know. That is near my house and it has been there forever, and I didn't go there, but I felt like I did because I was in the school yard most of my life, but there was a guy there all the time growing up and into my teens 179 and into my twenties, thirties, forties, all the way through. And now there is probably -- that's not a high-pressure boiler anymore, right? And is that a big school or a small school?
So he could be there three or four hours and maybe go to Feltonville for a while and hopefully not stop at the bar on the way? (Laughter.)
Yes. I would say too that you have to kind of look at the talents of an engineer and what we expect beyond the heating systems. These are big schools, a number of them with grounds, lighting systems, some ceiling tiles out there, so a school is a big job out there, and I think it is more kind of case by case. The bigger the school, the obvious the presence helps.
When you say a lighting system and ceiling tiles, I mean what is the worst that could happen that an engineer couldn't handle? The electricity goes off and he finds out what is happening and it is either inside or outside the building. He is not an electrician, 180 so he just calls someone and the District has an electrician has an electrician that would go up there?
I should point out too that we also have a contingent of relief engineers out there, and then we have a manager, facility area coordinators who all hold licenses.
What does Jimmy Lewis do? I'm trying to figure that out. (Laughter.)
One of my main concerns -- and this is the last thing I will ask you -- because I was really intrigued with what the 181 Councilman was asking you because right away you want to think that we probably can't handle whatever is going to happen, and it is probably the opposite; you probably can handle everything within an hour or so. But the apprentice thing really concerns me. Is there a case where someone -- you know, I was an apprentice, but I wasn't an apprentice engineer, so I don't know. I have an idea what they do. I'm not quite sure. But I wouldn't want to have an apprentice, being a journeyman electrician, and seeing an apprentice electrician come with the responsibility for life, safety issues. That doesn't happen, right?
Councilman, I don't think if you go anywhere in our buildings between the months of October and April that these schools are not manned with licensed engineers. These schools are 65 years or older, and we keep them safe and we keep them running. I think our guys from Local 1201 do a great job.
When you do these new buildings, they will probably be where you can monitor them from a central location as far as all 182 of the air-conditioning, heating?
Yes, all of them, and in the rehabs, the major rehabs, they will be air-conditioned.
So you will be able to monitor that from a central location.
I don't know where that is, but you will do that maybe. And I suppose by then you will have the whole School District in a little office up the street there. But that's what is going to happen.
They will be modern buildings and efficient, and the whole objective is to build a building that is very environmentally and financially efficient.
That is not to say too that your engineers don't need the opportunity of more class work on these certainly computerized, more sophisticated tools, and we sense that that is the future. 183
Again, this is my last, last question. Is there anyone that would graduate, say, from a public high school in Philadelphia, go to maybe one of the technical schools here and out-of-school work program and comes back to work in the School District? Is there anything as far as the engineers go? We did have that in the past. Is that still going?
It is funny you should mention that. That is not still going with the engineers. What is with the engineers, as I mentioned, is that we had cleaning leaders out there of sufficient numbers that wanted to be building engineers, and we were delighted. We are looking into -- actually, you asked if he does anything, the guy over here. We are looking into this summer at our apprenticeship programs for our students. We are looking at it in two trains of thought. One is your maintenance mechanic line of getting kids in young enough to see if they would like to go into the trades and then getting experience. Oddly enough, we are having trouble recruiting on the mechanic side. So kids are great for us. 184 Down the pike as the cleaning leader ranks withdraw or the apprentice class goes down, we will once again be thinking about in that category kids working their way into apprentice jobs. The last job I had, that is how they attracted and trained all of their engineers, was out of their schools, and they all went into a three-year program.
Thank you very much. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.
Does anybody else have any questions for this witness? Thank you. The next witness is Mr. Jordan from PCCY.
Good afternoon, City Council Members. My name is Aldustus Jordan, testifying on behalf of PCCY about the School District of Philadelphia's proposed budget for Fiscal Year 2005. In general, PCCY supports many of the District's proposed initiatives for the upcoming school year; however, we would like to voice a huge 185 concern for the Council to consider before approving their budget. In regards to the District's academic proposals, PCCY supports the proposed continuation of the extended day, summer school and beacon School programs. We have advocated for years for the expansion of programs that provide students with important academic and social supports. We also strongly support the proposed expansion of advanced placement and honors courses to high school studies especially in neighborhood high schools. For far too long the District has institutionalized low expectations for some students by not offering to all children challenging courses and programs which are essential to preparing students for post-secondary education. We are also pleased to note that the District has not proposed any additional changes in its early childhood programs and support the District's planned expansion of its Head Start offerings. We continue to believe that all the early childhood programs make an important contribution towards improving children's school 186 readiness. Over the long-term these programs will assist the District in achieving its goals for student achievement and compliance with the No Child Left Behind Act. In regards to the proposed reorganization plans, PCCY supports the District's commitment to renovating decades-old school buildings, the building of new high schools and reducing the size of existing high schools. However, we strongly advocate for students, parents, and communities to have a meaningful role in the development of curriculum and programs at these schools. In the area of safety and security, we support the District's plans to maintain the SMART program, the District's partnership with the Department of Human Services to expand the number of behavioral supports in schools and other initiatives aimed at reducing truancy. However, we have a number of concerns related to the expansion of alternative schools. Number one, there has been no formal evaluation of the effectiveness of the existing alternative schools. Before the District expands a 187 number of alternative school slots, it needs to make sure that students already assigned to these alternative locations are showing academic and behavioral improvements. Number two, the District has done an inadequate job of monitoring and supporting students after they leave alternative settings and transition back into regular public schools. The School District must provide appropriate after-care and transition supports for these students as they navigate the reentry process into schools. Finally, we support the District's commitment to achieving equity in every school so that all children have a fair chance to learn and excel. We support a number of the proposed initiatives to narrow the achievement gap including class size reduction in the early grades, new textbooks and materials, the creation of programs to encourage more parental involvement, increased professional development for teachers, and expansion of music and art programs. However, we have grave concerns about the inequitable distribution of certified and experienced teachers across District schools. 188 Despite the District's best effort to attract and retain high quality teachers for all children, the fact remains the schools with the highest concentration of poor minority students continue to be taught by the highest number of inexperienced and uncertified teachers. PCCY strongly recommends that the District rectify this problem by providing significantly more supports and incentives to the teachers in the hardest-to-staff schools.
This is a strategy that has worked in other big-city school districts such as New York, Charlotte-Mecklenburg and Baltimore. Those cities succeeded in boosting student achievement and increasing the number of certified and experienced teachers at the most challenging schools. These strategies they used should be adopted here in Philadelphia. By creating an equitable learning environment, the District would demonstrate its commitment to the ideals of fairness and equal access embodied in the landmark Brown versus Board of Education decision of 1954. Today, as we observe the 50th anniversary of the Brown decision, PCCY urges the 189 District to implement the often costly but essential initiatives that will give all students access to certified and well-supported teachers and the best possible opportunity to achieve success in school and in life. Thank you.
Thank you. This committee will stand in recess until 4:30 today. (The hearing recessed at 2:10 p.m.) 190 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262
This is the continued public hearing on the School District Bill. MR. McPHERSON: 040259, 040260, 040262.
Our first witness. MR. McPHERSON: William Mackey.
Mr. Mackey, please approach the witness table, identify yourself for the record, and proceed with your testimony. Mr. Mackey, please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Hi. I'm William Mackey, M-a-c-k-e-y, Executive Director, City-Wide Youth Agency. Good afternoon.
Okay. We'll be brief. I'm going to ask these three young people to say a few words, please. Thank you. 191 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262
Hello. My name is Natalie Harris, and I'm a senior at Multicultural Academy Charter School. And I have been involved with City-Wide for four years. And City-Wide is a great program. We do many different community service activities. We are in different divisions, such as computers, arts and culture, arts; taking all the stuff like that. And we do community service activities such as walks like the A.I.D.S. walk; and we do, like, cleaning up and stuff. Is anybody listening? Okay. And City-Wide is a great program because my sisters... I have two sisters who went to City-Wide. And one graduated from Millersville, like, two weeks ago; and one is attending Albright College. And she's a sophomore there. And they really helped -- City-Wide really helped them get through college. They gave them the right tools to get there. And I'm going to attend Arcadia 192 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 University in the fall. And they helped me, like, giving me scholarships; and just, like, giving me schools -- talking to me, giving me counsel on what I should do. And anybody that closed City-Wide down is crazy, because City-Wide is a great program. So, you should just continue to give us funds to let it go on, to help other youth in the City. Thank you.
Hi. Yes. My name is Kashif Hardy. And I'm currently the Community Service Coordinator of City-Wide Youth Agency. I came up through the program. Been in the program for nine years. And it helped keep me off the street. Taught me great people skills, business skills. And I currently help youth go out into the City to do cleanups, lots -- lots -- fix up lots, architectural designs. And it's just the funding for 193 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 City-Wide is not like it used to be. So, we just need more funds for us and other after-school programs throughout the City. We really need funds. And we would like for City Council to put us under their budget, if it's possible, because we just need more funds so we can expand our program. We have a miniature golf course. We currently need funds for that. We just need funds for various things that we're doing, so we can continue on and just grow bigger. Thank you.
My name is Anthony Rogers. I'm currently a student at City-Wide Youth Agency. I attend William Penn High School. I'm in freshman year. And if it wasn't for City-Wide, I don't know what I'd be doing right now. I'd probably be running the streets or something. 194 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 City-Wide taught me a lot, such as leadership, and business, stuff like that. And City-Wide just needs funds for events and everything, because without events City-Wide would not be as fun as it is.
In our close, I just want to say that, you know, for the last 12 years we have had the pleasure of coming before City Council and bringing some of our young people. This is some of our young people from City-Wide who attend today. Will you please stand up. (A number of youth complied with request.)
And we're really proud of these young people because there's many other things they could be doing in the evening and/or Saturdays than coming. So I really want to tell Council, thanks for giving us the time to present. 195 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 But in the package, we have a fact sheet in here on a proposed plan that we have started talking to the City of Philadelphia School District about. And that's about developing our charter school for many kinds of young people. And I just want to say to the School District, this is a different School District today than we have seen in the presence... It's more accessible, they responsive. And I just want to say it's inclusion with them. And I know times is hard around -- in the City of Philadelphia and budget wise. But City-Wide Youth Agency never ever, ever been written into the City Council budget. And I think, as times get hard, that groups that really produce the work need to be -- need to be included in the Council budget. We doing the work. And many people have -- Many Council folks have come out to 196 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 witness our work. We have a full developed proposal to take out our miniature golf course at 10th and Cecil B. Moore and build our charter school with many other partners. We just -- We just don't understand how we are not now --
But where do you presently get your funding from?
Right now... Right now we receive three small grants. One is from the Mayor's Children Investment Strategy. We receiving a small grant from the Philadelphia Activity Fund, and a small grant from the Philadelphia Youth Net. A couple years ago we were receiving funds from the state as well. We haven't received state funding right now. And I don't know if it's because the tug of war that's going on between this place and that place. And really, that's none of my 197 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 business, but it is a concern. I mean, this is the all-time low for funding at City-Wide. It hasn't never been like this since we started. We started our year-round program in 1992. And I want to the late Congressman Blackwell office, and things started happening for us. I'm telling you now, it's some scary times up at City-Wide. It is scary times for us right now. These tokens that it took us to come down here, the staff had to reach in their pocket to buy these tokens today. We never had times like this. And so... And we still doing the work. We have a lot of young people still involved in the program, and it's hard times for us. And I am speaking to our Council person about it, Councilman Clarke. But I think... You know, we receive kids from all over the City. And we need help.
Very well. 198 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 Are there any questions or comments from members of the Committee? We hear what you're saying, Mr. Mackey.
My last statement is, I would ask this Council to please sit down with the Executive Branch and figure out a way to help us help our program going and our young people to keep maturing. This is a young lady here... This is a third generation student of ours right here. This is a third generation student, right? This one been with me for nine years. Right? Charlita Hardy who was a staff -- Stand up, Charlita. Charlita been with me forever. She's a staff, right? Nicole, please stand up. Please stand up. She's been with us. I mean, if I go down the line -- and 199 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 I don't want to take up time -- that all these young people been with us. And we produce. It's no... We don't camouflage anything at City-Wide. So I just want to say, thank you for your time. We appreciate it. And I just need full consideration.
Have a good day. And this is a good School District that we have today. Thank you.
Mr. Mackey, I just wanted to say thank you. It was a great banquet you had approximately a month ago, well attended by all. We appreciate the job you do with and for the youth of our City.
Councilwoman, I just want to say to you that if our Godfather was here, he would reach deep and make it 200 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 happen. So I'm going to ask you to dig deep and help make it happen. Thank you. Have a good day.
Thank you. Our next witness. MR. McPHERSON: Kevin MacAfee.
Good afternoon. Kindly identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. MR. MacAFEE: Good afternoon.
Good afternoon. MR. MacAFEE: Need a higher chair here. My name is Kevin MacAfee, Kevin Mark MacAfee. I'm a building engineer for the School District of Philadelphia with 18 years of service. 19
Please 20 proceed. 21 MR. MacAFEE: First of all, I'd like to say, while attending a Local 1201 union meeting on March 11, 2004, I obtained a preliminary copy of the School District of Philadelphia Employee Code of Ethics. 201 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 During my years of service with the School District, this is the first time a Code of Ethics policy has been adopted and implemented into the District. A few years ago I had the opportunity to participate on a diversity committee to try to establish policy regarding inequitable labor practice within the District. However, our attempts were short lived. Upon complete reading of the Code of Ethics document, I do not believe that it will fully address the present complexity of problems that exist within the School District of Philadelphia. It appears systemic practice, relating to hiring, promotion, retention, training, testing and job posting are not done in a manner that is consistent with transparency, integrity, impartiality, respect, and public confidence. Present practice continually promotes social discrimination and racial bias, which is deeply ingrained within the 202 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 system. To make you aware of situations that I can personally verify and support are, unfair hiring practice. This is done through social promotion. It is a known fact throughout facilities and operation, your participation involving certain Anglo-Saxon organizations increases your chances of being promoted to middle and upper management positions. While these actions have created such disparity and the lack of opportunities for African Americans, women, and other minorities, it has also lowered the chances for qualified, competing, experienced personnel to apply for these positions. To validate my statement are as such: Currently out of 75 management positions, 65 positions are held by Caucasian men, 7 by African American men, 2 by Caucasian female, and by an Hispanic 25 male. 203 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 Caucasians are given an advantage when placed in an acting management position. They are allowed experience and test prep help before they apply and test for the permanent position, in preference to others applying for the same job. This move gives a distinct advantage when competing for competitive career advancement. Over the last few years, only one African American was placed in an acting management position. This individual served 11 months in that position and reverted to his former position. Another individual affiliated with an Anglo-Saxon organization took his place. Also, there were two other African American men who worked in management but left the system prematurely because they did not feel they received the same amount of support as Caucasian co-workers to produce an efficient job. These acts are not uncommon throughout the Facilities and Operations 204 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 Department of the School District of Philadelphia. Just taking a closer look, the evidence will be very clear. My request to City Council today is to seek help in assuring of the following: Please look into and study the matter diligently. Document your specific findings. Prescribe set standards and practices, follow and govern, monitor and ensure implementations of a performance criteria that can be verified, all within meeting the necessary standards of state and federal laws. I am sure there's not a Council member present who would continue to allocate additional funding to an organization or government agency which festers in blatant discrimination, without assuring corrective measures and practices be put into place. Thank you for this opportunity to appear before City Council with my 205 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 concerns, and earnestly anticipate a favorable outcome in the near future.
Thank you so much. There are any questions or comments from members of the Committee? The Chair recognizes Councilman Ramos.
Thank you, Madam chair. And thank you, Mr. Kevin MacAfee, right? Am I pronouncing your name right? MR. MacAFEE: MacAfee.
I've had the opportunity over the years to see you in community meetings and meetings of the School District. And you have always spoken your mind. Are you saying here that particularly African Americans are purposely left out of upward mobility management decisions in the School District? MR. MacAFEE: Yes, I am.
And what have -- 206 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 What have you -- And you're still employed by the School District; is that correct? MR. MacAFEE: Yes, I am.
Can you talk to us a little bit more about what measures you have taken to address this concern of yours? MR. MacAFEE: Well, I don't believe it's my job to take measures to address these concerns. I'm doing a community service to bring this to the forefront to Council. And I have also -- But if you want to get into what I have personally done, even though it's not my job, I have spoke before the School Reform Commission on this issue. Yes, I do appreciate the -- the door opening of Mr. Vallas, and in setting up meetings to discuss these issues and trying to correct them. But as I explained to Mr. Vallas and the School Reform Commission at that time, I am not planning on stopping at that level. I will continue to speak about this 207 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 issue until -- until drastic changes are taken place.
What kind of response have you gotten? I mean, you spoke before the SRC. And did they say they would conduct an investigation to see if your allegations were founded? I mean, has anything like that happened? You're union. I know that you've been a member of 1201 for a while. I mean, has the union looked into this on your behalf as a member that feels that you've been denied, you know, promotions, and so forth? MR. MacAFEE: Well, first of all, let me make it clear. I personally haven't been denied for promotion. I personally haven't.
Or your peers? MR. MacAFEE: I haven't seeked promotion in management because of how this system have ran over my 21 years in the system. I do not believe it gives a fair 208 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 opportunities or support for African American in such jobs, and because of the way the jobs are attained. Most of the jobs are attained through social involvement of ethnic groups or ethnic organizations. This is done through -- through your associations with different people. You are hand-picked and placed in managerial positions. This why the opportunity doesn't exist for African Americans to move into these positions, because most of these -- most of these ethnic organizations aren't organizations that have African Americans as numbers. They may have African Americans as honorary members. But to me, it just doesn't open up the door. I believe it is -- it is manipulated to the extent where it continues to add such a shadow over the School District of Philadelphia; not just the School District of Philadelphia but also over the City of 209 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 Philadelphia. It's -- It's -- It's -- It's very much in comparison to -- to the contracts that were given to 96 percent white male within the City of Philadelphia. So, this -- these actions are systemic within the City of Philadelphia. And I'm doing my community service by speaking up on these issues, and trying to put forth an effort in creating change. It -- It -- It -- It is definitely needed within the School District of Philadelphia. We cannot continue to hire people based on social promotion. The School District starts off its web site by saying, we are affirmative action employee. They are affirmative -- affirmative. They affirm the action of nepotism. They affirm the action of patronage. They affirm the action of discrimination. So they are affirmative action employee. But they have not affirmed the actions to allow African Americans to move 210 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 up into such jobs. And this is beginning to be such an issue with myself. And it should be an issue with City Council. It should be an issue with the Reform Commission. And it should be an issue with the state legislators, who will be my next step. Because this issue must be dealt with, and it must be dealt with, you know, in a time manner that shows that change is coming about. We cannot continue to live in a society that does not offer the opportunities to African Americans to advance or promote in jobs, African American or any minority. You know, not just to mention in a managerial position, but let me give you some numbers. With these individuals, Caucasians are placed in these managerial positions that oversees probably about 75 to 80 percent African American work force, you know. So -- So, where is the disparity -- 211 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 You know, where is the equality there? You have a managerial system that is 75 percent Caucasian, and then you have a work force that is 75 percent African American. You know, the opportunity doesn't exist. Not only that. Right now you probably have one female in the Maintenance Department. Okay. Out of about 350... Between 350 to 400 maintenance mechanics, so it doesn't open up opportunities for female. It doesn't open up opportunities for Hispanics. You have one Hispanic in a supervisory positions, and you are very limited in Hispanics within the work force. It doesn't open opportunities for Asians. You know, Facilities and Operation is a -- is a cancer that have created such blatant discrimination. And it needs to be dealt with. You know, so that's the issue I'm on. And this is not an attempt for me to be placed or to receive a job. I am not here for personal gratification.
212 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 I do not see myself looking to go into a managerial position because of the way the system have ran and because the system continue to run because of the blatant discrimination, the blatant racism that goes on within the system. That is not my objective here. My objective here is to see and to seek change, and to put -- to put out in the public and to let the public know that this is a humiliation, not only for the sort of School District of Philadelphia, but it is a humiliation to this City, to this Commonwealth, and to this country. You know, we talk about affirmative action, but I think people have lost sight of what affirmative action was for. Over the years we have continued, have preferential treatment. So when people talk about affirmative action, I don't like to say affirmative action. I like to say fair treatment, okay, instead of affirmative action, because like I said, we have had affirmative action. 213 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 We've affirmed nepotism. We've affirmed patronage. We have affirmed cronyism. We've affirmed discrimination. So I don't even like to use the word affirmative action. I want to see fair action. I want to see equal action, equal opportunities for African Americans and Latinos, and other minorities, for women to be able to move over into another area, other than having to be cleaning the school. Why can't they pick up a tool? This is the only organization I know that doesn't open up uncommon jobs for women. You know, it's pathetic. Over the years in the system, one female in the maintenance operation, maintenance department? One? You know? And some of the women -- Some of the women that are cleaning in buildings, they're cleaning at late hours. Okay. So, they don't have the opportunity because even though it is put out there for them to move over to positions, because of the 214 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 systemic cancer that exists within the system, it doesn't really open a door for opportunity for them to move over there. And that department itself is about 80 percent Caucasian. So it -- Not only does it limit the opportunity for -- for -- for -- for -- for other groups to move in or gender to move in, it also limits the opportunity for ethnic -- different ethnics to move in. And this is done because that's the most allocated amount of money that is given for overtime. So -- So, it's -- it's a cancer that must be taken out, it must be changed, and it must be changed as expediently as it possibly can. It just can not -- And I stress -- I can not stress more, it can not continue to go on like this any longer.
Sir, you mentioned -- Just one last question. You mentioned or made reference to ethnic organizations that promote non minorities. What do you mean by that, an outside 215 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 organization recommends a promotion? I mean, who are these ethnic organizations that you refer to? MR. MacAFEE: Well, you know, I'm not trying to get personal on... Let me say this --
Are you saying that there's outside organizations that have a say on the promotions of people that are not minorities, and particularly in the maintenance and the building care aspect of the work that goes on in the School District? MR. MacAFEE: Well, in a sense, yes, I am. But let me say this first. I personally --
So outside organization are having a say; is that what you're saying? MR. MacAFEE: Yes. Let me say this. I personally --
Are they social organizations, political organizations? MR. MacAFEE: Social. I believe -- 216 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262
What was your answer? MR. MacAFEE: I said ethnic -- social, ethic organizations.
I mean, give us -- MR. MacAFEE: Let me finish, and I'll explain. I believe different ethnic organizations -- ethnic people need to be able to express themselves and be proud of their ethnicity. And there's no problem in forming such organizations. And I will name them, such as the Emerald Society, The Knights of Columbus, The Sons of Italy. You know, I have no personal problem or vendetta against these such organizations. I think it's an encouragement for different organizations to come together as a group and to try to promote the uplifting of their individual 217 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 or ethnicity. But my problem is, when these such organizations manipulate the system, where it does not open up the doors to African American, that's where I have the problem at. I have the problem because there's no -- There's nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage. And I'm a firm believer. I am African American, and I am proud of who I am. You know, as James Brown said, I'm black and I'm proud, you know. And there's nothing wrong with being proud of who you are. But when you manipulate a system to the form of creating such disparities, where African Americans and other minorities aren't allowed to promote in certain areas, that's a problem. I have a problem with that. I have a problem with that. And that's what I mean by ethnic organizations.
Thank you, Madam 218 Whole - 5/17/04 - Bills 040259, 040260, 040262 President.
Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the Committee? (No response.)
Thank you very much. Do we have anyone else to testify? Do we have any other witness that would like to testify? (No response.)
Seeing none, this Committee will stand in recess until tomorrow at 1 o'clock. Thank you very much. (Hearing concluded at 5:10 p.m.) 219 CERTIFICATE I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings and evidence are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by us upon the public hearing of The Philadelphia City Council, taken on May 17, 2004, and that this is a true and correct transcript of same. _____________________________ CYNTHIA A. WHYTE, RPR Notary Public _____________________________ DAVID A. DEIK, RPR and Commissioner of Deeds (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)