COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA COMMITTEE ON RULES - - - Room 400, City Hall Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Friday, April 4, 2008, 10:33 a.m. - - - Bill 080027, Amending Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing zoning designation of certain areas of land located within area bounded by Christopher Columbus Boulevard, (former) Reed Street, the Delaware River, and Tasker Street (extended), under certain terms and conditions. Bill 080028 - Approving plan of development for a Commercial Entertainment District in area generally bounded by (former) Reed Street, Tasker Street (extended), Christopher Columbus Boulevard, and the Delaware River. COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT: Anna C. Verna, Chair James F. Kenney, Vice Chair Frank DiCicco William K. Greenlee Curtis Jones Also Present: Councilman Bill Green - - - V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Specialists 1835 Market Street, Suite 600 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.2670 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 I N D E X WITNESS Lynn Fox, Bus. Mgr., Unite Here....... Roger Van, Director, Unite Here....... 11 African-American Hiring Initiative Dr. Robt. Goodman, Hampshire College 25 Rene Goodwin, Philadelphia............ 50 Philadelphia Neighborhood Alliance Carl Primavera, Esquire, Foxwoods..... 58 Jim Dougherty......................... 66 General Manager, Foxwoods Casino Nicholas F. Moles, Esquire............ 72 V.P. and Gen. Counsel, Foxwoods Casino Patricia Georgio Fox, First Deputy.... 95 Commissioner, Police Department Mayor Michael A. Nutter............... 120 Fire Commissioner Lloyd Ayers......... 143 City Residents with Flooding Issues John Moraski, 110 McKean Street....... 157 Lou Carberry, 1929 East Moyamensing... 168 Kerry Nelson, 1100 Shackamaxon Street 177 Bernard Brunwasser, Water Commissioner 193 Steve Furtek, Chief Engineer.......... 198 Water Department Ed Kerlin, Pennsport Civic Association 204 Frank Morelli, Survey Bureau Manager 215 Department of Streets Mark Cilloni, Civil Engineer.......... 224 Pennoni Associates (Everett Gillison testimony attached.) 3 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Good morning, everyone. Thank you so much for your patience. This is a continued public hearing of the Committee on Rules regarding Bill No.'s 080027 and 080028. I would ask Mr. McPherson to please read the title of the bills. MR. McPHERSON: Bill No. 12 080027, an ordinance amending the Philadelphia Zoning Maps by changing the zoning designation of certain areas of land located within an area bounded by Christopher Columbus Boulevard, (former) Reed Street, the Delaware River, and Tasker Street (extended), under certain terms and conditions. Bill 080028, an ordinance 21 approving the plan of development for a Commercial Entertainment District in the area generally bounded by (former) Reed Street, Tasker Street (extended), Christopher Columbus Boulevard, and 4 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 the Delaware River. Do you want me to call the first witness?
Yes, please. MR. McPHERSON: The first witness is Lynn Fox, Unite Here. (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good morning, Madam President, and members of the Rules Committee. My name is Lynn Fox. I'm the business manager for Unite Here, which is the hospitality union, and that's the union that welcomes you to Philadelphia, and so I'd like to thank you for welcoming us to testify here today about the Foxwoods Casino proposal, which our union cannot yet support. And behind me, I have some 5 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 members who are representing all of us here today and took time off from work to be here today. And I'd like you to look, 'cause this is what our union looks like, these beautiful faces.
I'd like to say welcome and thank you for coming.
Thank you. Forty years ago today, Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. was marching with sanitation workers in support of their union, when violence took him away from us. And he understood that collective bargaining was the keystone to a strong economic future for workers of all races, but especially for the economic future of the African-American community. So, it is appropriate today that we gather to discuss whether Philadelphia's newest industry, gaming, will produce an economic future of prosperity or poverty and 6 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 whether this opportunity will be limited or will be made available to everyone from our great city. We have two primary concerns. Number: Number one, Foxwoods has not committed to hiring a workforce that is representative of the City of Philadelphia. The City should hold Foxwoods to the highest possible standard during their current negotiations of the economic opportunity plan. And two, Foxwoods' job quality commitments are inadequate. They have not agreed to work with our union on the permanent jobs and have not made commitments to job standards comparable to other unionized casinos in Atlantic City or Chester, Pennsylvania. Our union, Unite Here, represents almost half a million workers across North America, about two-thirds of them in the hospitality 7 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 industry such as hotels, gaming, and food service. We represent over 100,000 casino workers across the country from California and Las Vegas to Detroit, Mississippi, from Rhode Island, and even Chester, Pennsylvania. We represent the workers in every Atlantic City casino. We are the casino works union. And in Philadelphia, Unite Here's 9,000 members clean the hotels, wash the laundry, sew the uniforms, and serve the food in the Philadelphia school system, at the airport, in the stadiums, at the Convention Center, and at Harrah's Chester. Eighty-five percent of our members not only work within the City limits but also live within the City limits. We are Philadelphia. And we vote in Philadelphia. Our overall membership is majority African-American and three- quarters minority. Because it's most 8 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 relevant to the Foxwoods comparison, we've broken out the demographics of the workforce at all of the unions hotels in the attached slide, you will see 63 percent African-American 7 percent immigrant; and altogether, the 8 unionized hotel workforce in the City 9 is 83 percent minority. And remember, 10 that number, 83 percent, when you 11 evaluate the commitments that Foxwoods 12 is proposing. 13 And Foxwoods' own commitments 14 over time have eroded. For example, in April of 2006, Foxwoods testified before the State Gaming Commission that in Pennsylvania, the facility will consist of 40 percent of minorities. However, in the November 2007 agreement with Philadelphia, Foxwoods agrees only to aspirational participation ranges of 30 percent for the operations staff. So please remember that their goals are aspirational, not contractual. 9 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 And an aspirational goal of just 30 percent is even more problematic when we consider that the City's union hotel workforce is over 80 percent minority. For a city like Philadelphia, that 30 percent is just wrong; we can do better. And the City has to address this concern, and you have an opportunity to address it because, according to Foxwoods' January 2008 agreement with the City, they're required on or about March 21, 2008, to adopt an economic opportunity plan reasonably acceptable to the City, and it's our understanding that such a plan has been submitted to the administration but not yet been approved, and strong standards really need to be established here. At the end of the day, however, the strongest and most enforceable commitments are those established in a collective-bargaining 10 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 agreement.
The best way to really achieve a strong record of minority hiring is to use a bargaining relationship to secure an employer's commitment to fair hiring practices. And although we currently have strong minority representation in our unionized hotel workforce, we have recently witnessed a trend towards hiring immigrants rather than African-Americans for new job openings. And we have sustained strong levels of minority representation primarily due to the seniority and hiring protections in the union hotels. But we're concerned by the trend and so we intend to pursue a diversity initiative during our upcoming negotiations with the Center City hotels to make sure that Philadelphia retains its stellar record. I'd like to introduce for just a few brief moments Roger Van, who is 11 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 the national director of Unite Here's African-American Hiring Initiative, and he can speak about our initiatives in other cities and to preview some of what we hope to accomplish here in Philadelphia. Thank you, Roger.
Thank you, Lynn. Good morning, Madam President and members of the Rules Committee. My name is Roger Van. I'm the director of Unite Here's African-American Hiring Initiative. And Lynn has already discussed the numbers of African-Americans in Unite Here's workplaces with the hospitality industry in the city. And I have to say the numbers in Philadelphia do look good compared to the national trend; and to date, Philadelphia seems to be bucking the national trend in these unionized workplaces. Not too long ago, the hotel 12 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 industry in most American cities had a racial makeup similar to Philadelphia's, but over the past 5 years, as the industry has grown 6 significantly, the number of 7 African-Americans employed in hotels, 8 restaurants, and gaming facilities has 9 dropped steadily. 6 percent of the 12 hospital workers are African-American. 6 14 percent. And in both San Francisco 15 and Los Angeles, it's less than 5 16 percent. 17 And for most African-Americans 18 who are able to find work within the 19 industry, job quality is a very 20 serious issue. Nationally, more than 80 percent of the African-Americans employed in the hospitality industry are stuck in non-union, low-wage jobs with limited or no benefits, according to a recent study from U Cal-Berkley. 13 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 So African-American numbers are down significantly throughout the industry, but the picture is worse in unionized workplaces nationally. Reversing this trend is a national priority for our union. Beginning with our 2006 contract negotiations, we convinced employers in several cities to join us in a commitment to increased African- American hiring. As a result, the African-American Hiring Initiative has been launched in four cities: Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. And we hope to have similar contract language here in Philadelphia in the very near future. Our basic program involves the creation of a local task force comprised of employers, union representatives, and community members. This body is responsible for developing an outreach program that informs and educates the community 14 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 about job opportunities and workplaces covered by agreements with the union. They review hiring data and procedures and make recommendations about aspects of the application process that may present obstacles to members of the African-American community. They work with existing community job development and training programs to identify potential job applicants. And in two of our cities, they're beginning to hire staff to oversee the task force process. Our long-term goal in each of these cities is to replicate the success of the Culinary Training Academy in Las Vegas Nevada. The academy is a joint management partnership representing over 30 resort and gaming properties. The culinary union, Local 226, and the bartenders union, Local 165. Founded 1999, CTA is the country's leading and hospitality 15 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 training center. The academy is made up of several departments. The chefs, stewards and food and beverage departments are designed to produce employable entry-level workers, while incumbent workers are offered more advanced training courses to prepare for advancement. Each year, the academy trains approximately 3,000 students, and participating employers hire more than 85 percent of their graduates. And these are all union jobs with good wages and good benefits. CTA draws its students from Clark County, Nevada, which is only 9 percent African-American and 38 percent minority, but it graduates 17 percent African-Americans and 68 percent minorities in their classes. The Culinary Training Academy was not an overnight success story; it's been a 15-year work in progress. The trends in the African-American 16 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 hiring will be difficult to turn around in four initiative cities.
However, Philadelphia can be different, but this city cannot be content with the status quo. The numbers might look good today, but if the national trend is any indication, it is only a matter of time before African-Americans begin to disappear from the workforce in the hospitality industry. This city has the luxury of attacking this issue prospectively and proactively, and we want to help. Our international union is enthusiastic about partnering with Philadelphia to implement an African-American hiring program. In order to lay the groundwork for such a collaboration, we urge you to support Lynn's recommendations so that we can secure and build upon the union jobs in Philadelphia's hospitality industry. Thank you. 17 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Lynn?
Are there any questions from members of the committee?
Thank you very much. Thanks, Roger. There's more -- the reason why is 'cause there's more at stake here than just who gets hired. We also need to be attentive to the quality of jobs that are created. Three years ago -- I guess it was three years already -- I had the honor and privilege of serving on the Mayor's Gaming Advisory Task Force. And in our final report, the task force laid out clearly that the anticipation that these jobs should be high-quality union jobs and the report also describes a path for building 18 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 such a labor/management partnership. I excerpted a couple of pages from that report and gave it to you in the materials. And in it, you'll see a number of reasons why it's important that these permanent jobs become unionized gaming jobs. Achieving those good jobs is vital to our city's economic future. As you can see on this graph, the hospitality industry is the fastest- growing industry in Philadelphia. These are the jobs that will determine whether Philadelphians can own their own home, spend evenings at home with their children instead of at their second job, and can invest in their neighborhoods and churches. We are a city of neighborhoods and the quality of our neighborhoods depends upon the quality of our jobs. But that's not all. Half of our City budget comes from wage tax. Higher wages means more tax revenue 19 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 and lower tax rates for everyone. Low wages produce budget crisis. So we can see we're all in this together. And unionize gaming jobs are some of the best jobs in the service sector. Unions set the job-quality standard in this industry. In general, unionized gaming workers earn wages that put them squarely in the middle class. They have full family health insurance entirely paired by the gaming employer, which is a rarity today -- you can read the headlines and see for yourself about the health care crisis in this country -- and they enjoy defined benefit pension plans that, again, are paid for by the employers. Only 8 percent of service workers in the country can say the same. And in Las Vegas, for instance, roughly 70 percent of our membership reside in a home that they own, which is the epitome of the 20 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 American dream that's often too far out of reach for service workers. And in addition, service workers in the gaming industry are some of the few that, in partnership with Unite Here, have developed substantial training and growth opportunities for its employees. Roger spoke of the Las Vegas Culinary Institute. The same is true in Atlantic City, where we have joint apprenticeship programs that work with the criminal justice system to move people into steady employment. ) and PWDC. In short, the fastest-growing sector of our economy is the service sector. If we can create service- sector jobs that help people into the middle class, that have health and pension benefits and a path to a 21 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 better future for workers and their families, then we will prosper. Harrah's in Chester County agreed to work with our union and granted their employees a free and fair process to decide whether they wanted to join the union. The process worked, the employees joined the union. We're currently in negotiations, but I'm pleased to report that we have reached agreement on diversity language that puts into the contract assurances that the workforce will continue to reflect the community and specifically on African-American hiring in the community. So there's a number of outstanding questions about the permanent jobs at the Foxwoods development: Will Foxwoods work with our union, as described in the Mayor's Task Force report? 22 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Will they make a contractual commitment with our union to support African-American hiring? Will they provide a family health care? Will they provide a defined benefit pension plan?
Will they commit to provide wages and benefits that meet or exceed those at the Atlantic City casinos or Harrah's Chester? We encourage you to hold Foxwoods to the highest possible standards, and we stand ready, when invited, to join in and help make this world-class facility be what it should become with these good jobs. So I thank you very much.
Thank you. Are there any questions? The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.
Thank you, 23 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Madam President. And good morning.
You may have mentioned this in your remarks. I apologize if I was not paying complete attention. Sometimes these things are good and then sometimes they're rather distracting. Have you had any contact with the local people who are -- who would be the operators of the Foxwoods Casino here? Have you had any discussions with them to date?
We have met a couple of times. Those conversations have not led to any meaningful discussions, and so, the answer to that is: Yes, but not in substance.
Could you, without divulging anything that may not be appropriate, give us a sense of what those conversations were about and where Unite Here is and where the Foxwoods people are in relationship to 24 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 what we're trying to accomplish?
I don't know if I have any further questions, but thank you for coming in and --
You know we've worked well in the past in projects in my district. And if this becomes a reality, we'll certainly be at the table, all of us, to try to work through this as well.
Thank you very much. MR. McPHERSON: Our next witness is Dr. Robert Goodman.
(Addressing Ms. Fox.) Just a moment, please. I'm sorry. I am told that Mayor Nutter 25 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 will be coming up to testify between and o'clock today so that if, in 4 fact, your group would like to stay to 5 hear what the Mayor is going to -- 6
Our 12 next witness, please. MR. McPHERSON: Dr. Robert Goodman. (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning Madam President and Councilmembers. My name is Robert Goodman. I'm a professor at Hampshire College in Amherst, Massachusetts. I'm the former director of the United States Gambling 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Research Institute and director of a two-year study funded by the Ford Foundation and the Aspen Institute on the economic impacts of gambling. I also worked with the late Senator Paul Simon from Illinois, Democrat, and Richard Luger, Senator of Indiana, and others in the Congress on setting up the National Gambling Impact Study Commission. And I appreciate the opportunity to come here again to talk to you about some of the research that's been done on the impacts of casino gambling throughout the United States and give you an opportunity to think about how that might impact your situation here. I know that this has been a very controversial issue in this state. As you probably know, it's been controversial in other states, but you have a unique situation here, if I understand it correctly, where a 27 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 city is -- seems to be against having casinos but is being forced by the state legislature to have casinos. I'd like to talk about three points today: I'd like to talk about the economic impacts of casinos; I'd like to talk about city planning issues, how they would affect the City of Philadelphia; and then I'd like to talk about something that I've often been asked to address, and that is, since we're desperate for jobs -- and this is a situation not unique to Philadelphia, as you probably know -- what other alternatives are there, if we can't have these casino jobs, if we can't bring in money for public services, what else can we do. I should say right off the bat that my research doesn't focus on gambling issues. I happened to get involved in this because I was offered a grant to look at this because my background is in how cities and states 28 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 do economic development more generally. Right now, I happen to be studying the transportation industry, looking at how jobs are being affected in the automobile industry, how union jobs are being affected, as well as in other transportation industries and what the prospects are for the future. I've often been accused, I have to say, by the gambling industry of having made a career out of research in gambling, and it's only been a very -- if it's been a career, it's very a very short-term one, and I'm hoping that I won't remain characterized that way in the future. So in terms of economic impacts -- and I think most researchers will agree on this, they will disagree on the numbers. And, in fact, the gambling industry itself on some of these issues has conceded that this is true. There are two kinds of 29 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 impacts. One has to do with the costs of dealing with problem-gamblers. The problem-gambler is, in terms of the clients in a casino, a relatively small number, and it really depends on what part of the country you're in and how much gambling is available in that part of the country. All of the research shows that essentially the more gambling you have available to people, the more problem-gamblers you're going to have. S. study, which was a $5 million, two-year study, said that having gambling within a 50-mile radius of a population will double the prevalence of problem-gambling. Now, this was a commission, I should say, that had members of about the Indian gambling community, a member from the union that just spoke to you now and from the private casino industry as well as opponents to casino gambling. So the reason -- 30 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 that was probably the most objective and diverse research that had ever been done. But what are these costs?
Well, the costs -- very often what people talk about is the cost of dealing with problem-gamblers, that is putting money into an 800-hotline, having compulsive-gambling groups, providing therapy for compulsive gamblers, et cetera. That actually is a very small percentage of the cost. And, in fact, if that were the problem, it could be eliminated with a very tiny percent of -- a fraction of gambling-industry revenues. The real costs are to people other than the problem-gamblers. What happens when people get in trouble over their gambling is, they'll engage in activities that are costly to other people. They write bad checks, they embezzle money where they work, they commit fraud on insurance, on credit 31 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 cards. In some cases, they engage in outright robbery. In many cases, they go bankrupt. When that happens, those are costs to other people. They're costs to contractors, who don't get paid for work that they've done; they're costs to governments that don't pay taxes, et cetera. There are also the criminal-justice costs of prosecuting people. Now, an interesting thing here is that many times, criticisms of casinos have to do with the involvement of organized crime and other really abhorrent criminal behaviors. What we found in our research was that most of the crime related to casino gambling is white-collar crime. And in most of the cases, it is people who have never had trouble with the law before; these are sort of first-time offenders. Those costs, if you include 32 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 the criminal-justice costs in our study, came up with $13,200 per problem-gambler per year. We've looked at a lot of other studies, and they're also in the same range. So in general, as a rule of thumb, we've said it's in the range of about $10,000 per problem-gambler per year. Now, as I said before, it's a relatively small percentage of the population, but they account for a greater -- a major part of casino revenues. Depending on the part of the country you go to, it will be anywhere from to 50 percent of 17 casino revenues coming from 18 problem-gamblers. So this can be a 19 very expensive cost to other people. 20 Now, what percentage is it? 21 Well, if you go to a part of the 22 country that's had very little 23 gambling, it's in the range of about 24 or 2 percent of the adult population. 25 If you go to a place Louisiana -- 33 1 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 which not only legalized casinos but legalized slot machines at racetracks, legalized slot machines at bars and restaurants, and even legalized slot machines at truck stops -- their prevalence of problem gambling is 7 percent of the adult population of that state. Now, Louisiana is an interesting example and, I think, might be useful to think about in Pennsylvania as well as other states. The original proposal was simply to have casino gambling. The race tracks came in and said, That's not fair to us, we should have slot machines at racetracks. The bars and restaurants came in, the bar and restaurant associations came in and said, That's going to reduce our revenues at bars and restaurants, and so we would like to have slot machines. Then the truck stops came in. 34 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 So one after another, these different businesses that were going to be affected by the casinos got slot machines. And slot machines, as you may already know, are the major part of a casino's revenue. So whether it's in a racetrack or in a casino or are in a bar, the critical thing is that it's a slot machine. And a casino something on the order of about two-thirds and in some cases 75 percent of the revenues will come out of slot machines. So we can call it casinos or racinos, or whatever you want, but it's basically a slot machine industry. Now, what's the other major cost? And you probably heard a lot about this, and that's the substitution effect.
Casinos depend on discretionary revenue; that is, people spending their money in the casinos that they might have spent on some other activity. 35 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 The kinds of activities that usually are impacted would be furniture sales, automobile sales, restaurants, bars, clothing sales, sports events, movie theaters. The interesting thing here is -- and I'm very curious. This is the only state -- and I don't know if the State did it or if it's just the Greater Philadelphia area, but it's the only place in years of looking at this where a Chamber of Commerce has come out in favor of casino gambling. Most of the members of the Chamber of Commerce have been against it. I've been to Rhode Island, to Ohio, to a whole host of other states where I've been invited by Chambers of Commerce to look at what the impacts would be on their local businesses. And why -- I haven't had any conversations with the Chamber of Commerce here but, why the Chamber of Commerce -- and I believe it's the 36 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Greater Philadelphia Chamber of Commerce -- came out in favor of this I can't understand from an economic perspective. And if someone could elucidate me on that, I'd be very happy to understand it. The predictions -- when I looked at some of the predictions before Pennsylvania got casinos and slot machines at racetracks, there were different predictions. Roughly in the range of $250 million would come out of the State's other businesses and then go into casino and slot machine gambling. Now, here's an interesting phenomenon. Right now, on a -- if you go to Atlantic City, and you've probably read about this in the newspapers, I'm sure you're aware of it, the revenues in Atlantic City are down roughly in the range of 10 percent. Now, as I recall, the 37 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 arguments here, in Pennsylvania, were that the reason for putting slot machines here, or one of the major reasons, was to try to keep the money that was flowing down to Atlantic City here in the state, that all of those millions of dollars would be trapped here in the state and people could gamble at home. When you look at the actual figures, it's running in the range right now of about -- Atlantic City runs at about $5 billion a year. 5 billion a year. So the impacts in terms of how much you're holding back here is actually quite small. Most of the money, over a billion -- roughly in the range; I shouldn't give you any precise figures 'cause this is just a rough calculation, but roughly in the range of about a billion dollars now in 38 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Pennsylvania are coming out of gamblers from new gamblers, not people going to Atlantic City, but new gamblers in Pennsylvania. Now, if that's the public policy that the state legislators wanted to have, they certainly didn't promote it that way. I mean, basically, it's a policy of saying, We can get people in Pennsylvania to gamble a lot more than they do now. It's not just bringing those jobs -- the jobs -- the revenues that they brought back from Atlantic City are a small percentage of the revenues that are going into those slot machine parlors or racinos, or whatever they're called here in Pennsylvania. So if that, indeed, is the policy, I think it ought to be transparent, and that's the way the legislators ought to promote it, not as a way of simply trapping dollars that might have gone someplace else. 39 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Now, getting to the second issue I mentioned -- and that is the planning and where you place casinos in a city -- I was very surprised that the City Planning Commission here -- this was the second surprise; one was the Chamber of Commerce decision.
But then I looked at the Planning Commission decision, and I've never seen a decision like that, putting an activity with an enormous amount of traffic, pollution, noise next to a very -- or very close to, I should say, a residential community. If you look at the history of zoning -- and I teach a course in zoning. If you go back to the early part of the 20th Century, and the whole purpose, the reason that the cities -- the states and then the cities were given power to zone was to keep unattractive activities away from residential communities. If you look at the first decision, the Euclid 40 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 decision, by the Supreme Court, and that had to do with keeping unattractive activities -- protect residential communities. So here you have a case of professional city planners saying that it's a good thing to put an activity that has some extremely negative aspects to it next to a residential community. This is very difficult, at least from a city planning point of view, to understand. So before I see if you have any questions, I'd like to get to this last point, which is -- which, I guess, is the most interesting to me, I should say, since I'm interested broadly in how cities and states do economic development, not just gambling. The one thing that's interesting is that in just about every study that I've seen and that we've done, there's never been any 41 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 group, any popularly mandated group that's put together a citizens group that's argued for bringing casinos to a state. No group, other than the casino industry and legislators, has said, We don't have enough gambling opportunities. What we've seen -- we've looked at this. We've seen groups that are arguing in favor of marijuana, we've seen groups saying that people shouldn't use fur, a whole host of different groups about the environment, but never a single group saying, The state is not giving us enough opportunities to gamble and please locate casino or other gambling opportunities. What we have seen is states that are actively trying to deal with their job problems, with their economic problems. And certainly I don't have to tell anyone that we have some serious economic problems, 42 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 especially at this time, when we've -- depending on who you talk to, are either deeply into a recession or just entering it. Now, here's an interesting thing. In Massachusetts -- and I think this relates to your dilemma here, although they had a much easier time in Massachusetts. Just recently, a very popular governor proposed three major casinos for the state. As in many other states, race tracks were asking for slot machines, but the proposal was for three major casinos, and everyone I spoke to, when this was proposed, said, This is a done deal. Our economy is in bad shape, we need the jobs, we're going to create 20,000 jobs, we're going to bring in $400 million a year to the state budget to help pay for people's real-estate taxes, similar to what was going on here in Pennsylvania. And this was supposed to be a 43 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 done deal. When the legislators looked at this, even though the Governor was pushing this very hard, the legislators looked at this, and they realized the economic impacts, they realized the social impacts, and they decided against it; by an overwhelming vote, they decided against this. Now, I was asked during that time to debate this issue with people from the administration, from the governor's office, and I have to say that I voted for the governor, I actually contributed to his campaign and got other people to vote for him, and I think he's a very good governor. On this particular issue, I don't think he or others in his administration understood carefully the economic impacts; when other legislators looked at it, they did understand that.
And here are some of the 44 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 arguments during these debates that I had. I talked to people in other businesses. One person who runs an entertainment venue, a major entertainment venue that's been going on for years, his complaint was that if casinos come in, what he's seen is that in order to attract -- he was going to have a difficult time attracting entertainment talent. We're very close to Foxwoods and Mohican Sun casinos in Connecticut. He says that at Foxwoods, what happens when a performer comes in, they have to sign a contract. First of all, they can pay the -- because they are -- they're being subsidized by their casino revenues, they can pay their entertainment much more than any local entertainment venue can pay for this. So they'll bring in top-name stars. They have to sign a contract that essentially says they will not perform 45 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 in any other venue within X-amount of miles of that casino for a number of years. His complaint was that that essentially, that kind of competition is something, if they didn't have slot machines, they could never go up against. So he saw the end of his business. It's a business that had been operating for many, many years. And I've heard similar stories about that. In Saratoga, New York, the Chamber of Commerce there, which turned down casinos, they bring in entertainment from New York City and other places, New York City Ballet, and other major entertainment enterprises. Again, they recognized that if casinos came in, that would be the death of those enterprises. So you have major impacts on these local businesses. I was asked some years ago -- when Howard Dean was governor of 46 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Vermont, and he was trying to keep casinos out of Vermont and so were a number of other legislators. "
Doctor, excuse me. Your testimony is really very, very enlightening and very interesting. However, we do have a number of witnesses --
-- that would like to testify. And we would like to hear from all of them.
So if you could conclude your statements -- 47 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Okay. I'll summarize what I was going to say about the future of jobs and to say that I recently came back from Wyoming and Montana where I had work, looking at the creative economy, where people are trying to create jobs in entertainment, the arts, and other things that they think of as the future. There are other jobs in other states, including Pennsylvania by the way, that are green jobs that are now expanding. The future is that over the next ten years, the predictions are that about 5 million jobs in green industries will be created, and the question is whether they will be in this country or elsewhere. That's jobs in solar panels, wind energy, 48 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 alternative energy, weatherization of buildings, et cetera. My own sense is that a state, if it really wants to create jobs for the future, is going to be looking at those kinds of jobs and the ways that it can support it. Pennsylvania's already doing that. You have companies coming here from Germany, from Spain, from Taiwan locating manufacturing operations here. So I think that's the kind of jobs we're likely to have in the future. I'd just like to -- in summing up, I'd just like to show you just a few pictures. I just happened to be looking at a casino in Hollywood, Florida. This is a major casino. This is the Seminole Casino. I wish I had bigger pictures to show you there. They talked about attracting other businesses to this casino, from an economic perspective, having a 49 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 multiplier effect. If you go across the street from this casino, this is what you'll see. (Dr. Goodman holds up pictures.)
A half a dozen pawn shops. This is called Players Pawn Shop, Casino Pawn Shop, Quick Cash Pawn Shop, Family Pawn Shop, et cetera. I have other pictures. You only have to go down the street to Atlantic City to see the same thing, and that's the kinds of businesses you're likely to attract here in Philadelphia to this casino -- these casinos. I appreciate the opportunity.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions from members of the committee of the doctor? (No questions.) (Applause.) 50 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Our next witness? MR. McPHERSON: Dr. Everett Gillison. (Dr. Gillison is not present.) MR. McPHERSON: The next group is the Philadelphia Neighborhoods Alliance. (Witness comes forward.)
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
My name is Rene Goodwin. I'm a resident of the Pennsport area and I'm also a member of the Philadelphia Neighborhood Alliance. There is another member to join this panel who should be here any moment; hopefully, he will come in while I am testifying. 51 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 I want to, first of all, start out by saying I'm not anti-casino; I just support resiting the casinos to other sites. And I also want to start out by saying it is truly a pleasure to be here with you today, today in particular, because it's good to know that somewhere in the State of Pennsylvania, there are elected officials who uphold democratic principals. (Applause.)
And believe in government for the people and by the people. (Applause.)
"Public safety," under prior city administrations, was an umbrella term referring to various services provided by police and fire departments. Examples of quality-of-life crimes addressed proactively by policy by the police 52 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 included panhandling, car break-ins, snatch-and-grabs, prostitution, drugs, public intoxication, and public urination. The Fire Department provides services in three categories: fire suppression, EMS (emergency medical services), and special-events response teams including, hazmats. Existing resources are not adequate to address an increase in any of these services. The services are already strained and barely able to keep up with the demand for services placed on them. The new administration is seeking ways to maximize its resources so is that police presence can be felt. Several years ago, there were threats to close fire stations, and that brought quite strong responses from the community. It is a given that casinos will bring significant increases in 53 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 the number of people traveling through the city, particularly to the waterfront area. Where will the resources come from to serve them? The existing level of service won't be adequate. In the Stadium District, for example, if an event draws 80,000 people or more, the generators of that event, including Wachovia, Spectrum, and Citizens Bank Park, are assessed $10,000 per event to offset the cost of demand for the services. The Nutter administration takes a broader view of what comprises public safety, as evidenced by the Mayor's appointment of Everett Gillison as Deputy Mayor and Public Safety Czar. An article in the Philadelphia Inquirer, dated March 23, 2008, stated that Mayor Nutter regards public safety a far broader issue than law enforcement. New Deputy Mayor Gillison stated in that same article, 54 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 quote: The way to look at city services. The crisis may be one of education or of mental health services, but if those things break down, then you're going to have a crisis in public safety. If one considers more police will be needed as a result of the six to nine million people that will come to casinos, one must also bear in mind that added police results in more work for an already overburdened judicial system. For instance, for each assistant district attorney that may be needed to be hired, one must also add investigators, paralegals, and clerks. Just this week, Foxwoods was asked what plans they had to deal with safety issues beyond their own perimeter. Their answer was, quote: On services outside the Foxwoods perimeter, this is an example of the kind of issues that can be addressed 55 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 by the $1 million in Special Services District funding we are committed to providing. So it would seem that casinos feel they have no real stake in public safety for this community. It can either guarantee that the million 9 customers a year coming through their facility will need public-safety services only within their perimeter; or, if it doesn't happen on their property, it just won't be their problem. On the issue of the expanded scope of services under the public- safety umbrella, remember also that services provided by Department of Human Services are not adequate primarily as a result of the cuts under the Bush administration. In fact, this is the biggest challenge in meeting those needs. There are some miscellaneous facts I would like to point out. 56 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Engine at Moyamensing Avenue and 3 Washington Avenue has a very small local area to be covered because it only has one engine and no paramedic. An EMT, an emergency medical technician, is on a fire truck, while paramedics are on a medic truck. EMTs receive approximately three weeks of training after fire school. Paramedics receive to weeks of 12 training.
A paramedic is on a medic 13 truck, but they are not at every fire 14 station. One out of every four or 15 five fire stations may have a medic. There is a rescue squad at Fourth and Snyder but not at all stations. And there are less EMTs on duty at night than in the daytime, except that casinos are hours a 21 day. 22 I'd like to close with a 23 statement made by Deputy Mayor 24 Gillison. " I attached with my testimony a chart which indicates the average response time right now, given the demand on the emergency services and the population we serve, and also an estimate, which you probably saw before, of the actual cost of one police officer. I don't know where my other colleague is, but are there any questions? )
Again, we thank you. I know you've been coming in to just about every hearing we've had, and I certainly want to thank you for your interest and your dedication to this issue, and thank you again for coming in today and sharing your thoughts with us.
We 58 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 appreciate it.
And I want to thank the members of Council. It is gratifying to know that somebody's listening to us.
Our next witness? MR. McPHERSON: Our next witness is the Philadelphia Entertainment -- I'm sorry. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good morning, Council President Verna and members of the committee. Carl Primavera on behalf of the Foxwoods Casino. With me is Jim Dougherty, whom you've met before, and David Sander from my office. We will be very brief because we know that there's been a lot of testimony. And, really, what we're 59 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 here for today is just to submit some information into the record, which we think will be hopefully responsive to some of the things you've heard already. So if I have my materials properly in hand. First of all, we have materials which are responsive to Professor Goodman. And there's other information that you'll see in the bibliography that talks about public safety and gaming and a lot of interesting social issues. We think that our response to all of this is very, very responsible. So we've have that in the record. Also, we have heard the concerns about public safety on the level of policing and fire and emergency, and we're handing up materials in response to that, which Jim Dougherty has prepared along with the head of public safety for Foxwoods so that you'll have a little bit of 60 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 the flavor of their very positive experience where they currently operate. So we think both in the local level and in the literature that casinos, quite frankly, add tremendous value, and the adverse negative impact is very limited. You'll even see in the data -- (Jeers.)
You'll even see in the data that they've surveyed areas that have gaming, and 75 percent of the elected officials have said that, based on their experience with gaming, they would like to -- they would make that same decision again to have gaming. So it shows that, like most other things, whether they're stadiums or whether they're shopping centers, once they're up and running, it's really more about the jobs and about making it as good as it can be. And, again, we also heard from 61 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Lynn Fox, who we have a great relationship with, and we will work -- we're not anti-union. We will work with them and we look forward to providing the great jobs that are going to be a part of this casino. And we have nothing but good intentions with regard to unions, minorities, neighbors. We want people to be stakeholders in the great success that Foxwoods will be. So I want to make sure that information is passed up. And then the only other thing I do have -- and I probably put some of this out of order, but David, you'll straighten me out if I'm -- we have a letter that we sent to Shelly Smith, the Solicitor, and we're going to send a copy of it for the record, which, as Councilman DiCicco recognized when I saw the newspaper here today, we're here really as a sign of respect for Council, to share 62 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 information. The Supreme Court ruled yesterday and it speaks for itself, but we want to be seen as a positive and cooperating partner as we move forward, and we're not going to sit behind any opinion of the Supreme Court or be unavailable on any issue. And that's a commitment we made when we first came into City Council, and that's the commitment we make from here forward. So we're passing that up as well. And with that, I don't have any other testimony. Jim's here, but we know that there's a lot of people who want to be heard, and we are here also at the appropriate time to talk in detail about the water and sewer issue, and we have Pennoni lined up to talk about that; that's one of these big issues that we know the community has concerned about. And we think, after our testimony, hopefully they'll 63 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 feel as good about this situation is we are, that we're really going to be a helpful participant with those infrastructure issues. So with that, we're inclined to just go back and listen and, hopefully, be a helpful part of the process.
There's a lot of information that we have to review.
And most of it has to do with the original, I guess, legislative decision as to whether there should be gaming, and I think, to some extent, that decision's been made, but we want you to know that the literature is very positive, that the anecdotal information from Wyoming and from Biloxi -- you know, Philadelphia's the fifth-largest city in the United States, and we expect the experience here to be world-class. Philadelphia's a world-class city, and some of these 64 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 anecdotal references to places that -- Vermont, for example, there are places that we love and we respect, but Philadelphia is a huge, huge city with important job needs and tax needs, and I don't think that some of the examples you heard today are really apples and apples.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And good morning. Good morning, gentlemen. Mr. Primavera, I'm referring to the letter statement of Foxwoods Casino Philadelphia regarding the impact of casinos on public safety. It's signed by Mr. Dougherty, obviously. I just want to bring your attention to the last paragraph on the first page. "Foxwoods Casino Philadelphia will have more than 65 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 adequate means to police our own property. We intend to coordinate closely with Philadelphia police, fire, and other emergency-management officials to complement the City's services. The casino will assist in training police officers and other emergency personnel." Could you expound on that? What do you mean, you will assist in training police officers --
Is that Philadelphia police officers, I would assume? Or not.
This goes toward the development agreement if you want to address that.
Councilman, the issue would be making sure they understand the casinos layout, that we be able to work together, and if there was anything that happened that the 66 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Philadelphia police were responding to, that we'd be able to work together hand-in-hand with them in solving those issues.
The development agreement that was worked out and executed at the end of last year makes sure that there's a hand-in-glove relationship. Part of the issue will be the multi-levels of police authority. I guess the State police has control over the gaming floor. We will have private security within our premises. The police respond, I guess, to non-gaming-floor events.
So to some extent, the idea is to coordinate and manage to make sure that each enforcement agency understands its job and that we are a helpful part in coordinating so that there's no gap between what the Philadelphia police 67 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 would be responsible for, the state police, and then our own security force.
See, that confuses me because -- I don't mean to interrupt you but, I think it's become said that we would need an additional 160 to 168 police officers, that we would undoubtedly need a new facility or a renovated existing facility to have a new police unit. We also need additional equipment. You talk about what agreement was made. We have no knowledge what that agreement was, so can you expound on that more clearly, please.
We can. I thought that was going to be for another day of testimony. We actually have someone who is going to address the development agreement in detail. Nick, do you want to summarize it? I know we have a copy that's in our materials, or Nick Moles might be 68 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 able to do that. But basically what we saw today for the first time from Deputy Commissioner Gillson reminded me of, you know, if you ask a general, Well, how many troops do I need? you know, they say, Well, I want as many as I can get. Dealing over a year with the administration before, we were pretty comfortable that the funds that were provided in the development agreement plus the host fees would more than cover any anticipated future needs. We'll look at what we saw for the first time today in terms of the anticipated assistance, but to some extent, I don't think that -- I don't think there's a suggestion by Deputy Commissioner Gillson that the casinos are going to take over funding the police functions for the City of Philadelphia. I mean, that's for Council's budget. 69 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 We want to be helpful in that regard, but the development agreement calls for -- and Nick can tell us in more detail, you know, the great collective amount of compensation going to the City for these anticipated increased expenses. (Witness comes forward.)
You know, Nick says that Ira Gubernick, who negotiated the agreement, and Romy Diaz have both agreed to come in and testify -- we thought it was going to be on the fourth day -- to go into the details of the document. I don't know whether you want to reserve that and get more specific information or --
Well, we have Mr. Gillison's testimony before us, and I think that's what we were considering today, about the safety issues.
Well, public safety, yes, but the budget, which we 70 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 have just seen for the first time, or the proposed budget, we're digesting it as you are. I'm not prepared to say that we've seen it before or that we can react to it. I'm sure it's a good- faith attempt to outline what they believe would be some costs that they would experience. I don't think it's been vetted by any particular group, and I don't even know if the City has looked at it. But the development agreement does call for significant cooperation and expenses to the City, plus the whole gaming legislation is designed to return money to the host communities that would not only help defray the costs associated with gaming, but obviously, they're anticipating a huge surplus beyond those costs that would be premiums back to the City. So to some extent, you know, we can obviously look at it, but I 71 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 think what we're seeing today from the first time from this administration, or at least from one person in this administration, seems to be kind of out of step with a lot of the prior information. The task force -- I know you have the task force information; that was a year's worth of work. We know the people and the quality of the people who were on the task force, we've heard the reports from Steve Mullin, we've seen the reports from other people. So we're happy to look at any information and respond, but, I guess, looking at those numbers today for the first time, it's hard for us to be specific other than to say they look to me like someone who, in any business, you say, Well, how much do you want for what you would like to do? and we all want the sun, the moon and the stars -- a new police station, 72 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 new trucks, new officers. That's just being a --
Well, don't you think before that statement was prepared that they looked at all of the information that was given to us, so that -- and --
We hope that they did. Now, didn't talk to the casinos, which would have been helpful, to understand really what they're talking about. They may have done --
Well, what is the difference between the agreement that had been made with the previous administration and what we're being presented with today?
We're not being -- 73 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 we're not presenting anything different today, Madam President.
So you do agree that we would need 160 to 168 more police?
Well, what are your figures? What did you talk to about with the last administration regarding this one issue?
Yeah. As Mr. Primavera indicated, we have a witness who will testify as to the negotiations of the development agreement. We're not prepared to present that testimony today. Our understanding was that it was to be presented at the next hearing. We'll be prepared to do that. The development agreement was presented to this body at the time of the first hearing. The development 74 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 agreement stands for itself. As far as the impacts on local public safety and issues of those natures, it's my understanding that that's what the host fee is designed to contribute to, to allow for specialized police force specialized for the areas where the casinos are located as opposed to drawing police force personnel from other areas. It's also my understanding that the study of the task force that Mr. Primavera referenced indicated that of the various sites that had been considered, the impact on public safety of this particular site was about percent less than the other 19 sites that had been considered on 20 average. So I cannot speak to the specifics of the calculus that went into the provisions and in the development agreement because I did not negotiate that, but we will 75 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 present a witness who can give you those details.
And we wanted to present Romy Diaz, who was the City Solicitor and who worked for over a year with all of the operating arms of government -- the police, the fire emergency services -- and he'll have that detailed information. But it was not a cavalier understanding. We worked long and hard on the development agreement to make sure that the City got the best possible deal that it could. In many instances, the development agreement has contributions, assessments and exactions for which there really was no legal basis, but quite frankly, it was done in order to move the process forward. So we think that ultimately, when we have that information available, you'll see that this was not anything other than a very 76 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 generous sum of money along with the other monies inherent in the legislative program. So we'll have more detailed information. And we will go back and look at what the Deputy Commissioner presented today, and we'll also ask him, what did they base that on? Hopefully -- they didn't talk to us, but hopefully, they did look at what we presented. Hopefully, they also spoke to the people in government; not all of them left when Mayor Street left. So, hopefully, the people who are really doing the job of government, who, quite frankly, have been here and are here today, we haven't seen mass changes of captains and commissioners and the like. So I don't think that there's any legitimate basis to, in effect, ignore what's been a year's worth of work in coming up with this development agreement. 77 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Oh, I'm sorry. The Chair recognizes Councilman Green.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that. Can I ask a question that I'm not sure the answer to as a new Councilmember? Is it in order to swear these witnesses before I ask some questions?
Did you say "swear at them" or did you "say swear them"? (Laughter.)
You know, we -- I've wanted to do that with the witnesses we've been hearing from the 78 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 community and others, and I didn't have the audacity. (Jeers.)
But I would say this: As a member -- (Council President Verna bangs gavel.)
As a member of the bar and as well an established former chancellor of the Philadelphia Bar Association, head of the Justinian Society, I think my word has been good in this Council, and I say my word speaks also for Jim Dougherty, who I think we all know, and my colleague Dave Sanders. So I'm not going to ask that you be sworn and I know you're a member of the bar, so I don't think that it would be appropriate, although if it's the President's desire to do that, I'm happy to speak under oath. My word is my oath, and I think everyone in City Council knows that. 79 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Well, there are people up there who aren't attorneys. Mr. Primavera, I accept your word.
It's at the Chair's discretion, and I don't think we want to do that today.
Thank you, Madam Chair. You mentioned the task force in your testimony and how you worked with the task force. You submitted a report to the task force that talked about the potential economic impacts, which was the subject of testimony today, of the only casino entertainment facility proposed fronting the South Delaware River in the City of Philadelphia. It is prepared by Econsult Corporation, and it has a date of March 2006. Are you familiar with that?
Yes. And I 80 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 remember Mr. Mullin, the former commissioner director, testifying at the last hearing on that.
Okay. Well, I may have -- I missed that hearing and I apologize for that. In that report, on , it says that the real-estate taxes that are going to be paid to the City of Philadelphia -- are you familiar with that?
It assumes that the Foxwoods Casino will be paying one hundred percent of the real-estate taxes based on the assessed value -- in other words, that you would not be taking the tax abatement -- does it not?
It says "potential annual local revenues," and it looks like it does count all of the real-estate tax in there as a 81 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 potential.
So you did -- why was it put -- you put it in as a potential, but you didn't mean to pay it?
Well, this was the original report of 2006, and then the development agreement dealt with that issue, and the development agreement specifically talks about what portion of the taxes would be paid. And, Nick, do you want to talk a little bit about that? I have the paragraph in front of me from the development agreement. It's paragraph 12, and it talks about payment of taxes.
Yeah. Well, you know, what you presented to the City was that you were going to pay your taxes. Is it fair to say that the Street administration favored your operation; in other words, was in agreement that your casino should go 82 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 where it's going, et cetera, wanted the casino there?
Well, if you look at the record of the litigation, there was a huge amount of litigation and --
I think there was. There was a lot of litigation early on. And then I think, as a result of signing the development agreement, the City decided that if you signed the development agreement and if they otherwise felt that your plan of development had been fully approved by the Planning Commission, then they would endorse the development. And ultimately, that's what happened. We had a development agreement that was signed with the City. I believe we even waived some tax abatements. 83 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Didn't the Street administration file briefs in your favor in court?
Ultimately, they did, but that was a modification of the position.
Wasn't it before the signing of any development agreement that they filed briefs in your favor?
If I can answer that, the Street administration actually opposed us in three pieces of litigation before the Pennsylvania Supreme Court prior to the current litigation --
And what were they related to? 84 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
They were related to zoning issues, and the specific issue was whether or not we were entitled to build under C-3 zoning versus CED zoning. So there was a period of time when there was opposition from the Street administration as to the position that we took.
Was there any opposition from the Street administration with respect to tax issues?
Absolutely, because we appealed our tax assessment; we felt that it was unreasonable.
And part -- if I may finish, sir. Part and parcel of the development agreement is a tax-claims settlement and a development agreement. There are many avenues in there in which we've agreed to pay 85 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 sums that another developer developing a project of this size would not have had to pay under the tax-abatement program. So part and parcel of what we agreed to is to pay more --
You don't -- you don't have a tax abatement because you haven't applied for building permits and you're not entitled until to apply for a tax abatement until you do so.
And that may well be the law, sir; I don't want to argue with you on that.
Okay. So can you please explain to me what the case in controversy was that was settled between the Street administration and Foxwoods at the time that the settlement agreement was signed?
Among other things were issues related to what the true 86 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 value of the property was. We had a tax appeal pending.
And we resolved that issue as to what we felt the true market value of the property was --
-- and what the appropriate taxes would be today with an escalator provision as well.
Right. So what you did was you -- the case in controversy was what current taxes you have to pay, what the value of the property is today. So why is the settlement agreement broader than the issue for which you were in controversy with the Street administration?
I was not part and parcel to that aspect of the negotiation, so I don't feel qualified to speak on that. Certainly, Mr. Diaz would be 87 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 in a better, were he here to testify, and Mr. Gubernick, who we will present as a witness on the development agreement, could probably provide further -- (Indiscernible; parties talking over each other.)
Are you aware that under the City's Charter, nobody can enter into an agreement longer than a year unless there's a case in controversy, which there was not, with respect to whether or not you'd get an abatement. Nobody can enter into an agreement with the City of Philadelphia longer than a year that is not approved by City Council.
Well, I can shed some light on what happened. We were moving ahead in what we thought was based on the Gaming Commission's decision for Foxwoods and our license with what we thought were the appropriate approvals so that we 88 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 could move forward. The City, under the then-administration, said that they would not authorize any approvals unless we signed a development agreement, which, in the City's then-mind, addressed a variety of issues pertaining to the development plan, which ultimately was approved, the taxes, and also, many things in the agreement that arguably were beyond what Foxwoods was obtain gaited to do. I mean, the agreement was basically to address what the City felt was its requirements so that they had what they felt was the best --
Well, it was a couple of them. We had zoning cases, which were on appeal, that went to the Supreme Court and the tax appeal. 89 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
They were all -- the City had already filed suits by the time you filed -- filed in your favor in all of that litigation prior to --
Prior to the time you signed this agreement, three days before the end of the last administration, the City and you had no 13 dispute.
This agreement was reached in principle in November. A settlement agreement was reached, and ultimately, this development agreement was signed.
Prior to November, the City filed briefs on your behalf.
I believe it is, but the point is, there is no case 90 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 in controversy with respect to the City's tax abatement program. There is no case in controversy with respect to many of the issues raised in the development agreement. And, I submit to you, the City Solicitor in the previous administration had no authority to enter into most of what it contains.
We respectfully disagree. We -- we're here not to argue legally because we believe the law in all respects has rendered moot many of the things we're talking about today, but we're here to be helpful and to be cooperative. We respect everyone's right to read the law as they believe appropriate.
Are you at all embarrassed that you submitted a report to the City of Philadelphia saying you'd be paying real-estate 91 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 taxes and then reached an agreement with the Street administration basically saying you wouldn't?
No, because we don't -- as the question's framed, we don't believe that was correct. This is an analysis that was submitted at the time showing taxes. Obviously, as things move forward, many of the things that would be in any report were changed, would be modified by real time and real events. We don't think there's any inconsistency. Basically, Mr. Mullins is talking about a wide variety of financial information, he's talking about proposed sales tax, wage taxes. All that's going to change based upon market conditions. So the fact that there's an inconsistency or a potential inconsistency is the nature of forecasting. These are financial forecasts. 92 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Whether or not you pay taxes -- real-estate taxes to the City of Philadelphia doesn't change based on market conditions, Mr. Primavera.
Well, the assessment could go up, it could go down. If the market continues to go --
Well, whether or not you pay at all does not change based on market conditions.
You're not paying based on the improved value based on that -- under the terms of the tax supplement agreement.
If and when we get the abatements, we're paying over and above what the City abatements would otherwise provide, so we're 93 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 paying land tax and we're paying some additional tax and --
Are you paying based on the fair market value of your property?
Yeah. Nick's saying we think it's more than the fair market value.
After the improvements? You're paying more than fair market value after the improvement?
You're paying based on the -- you're paying as if the property's worth 300 to $400 million?
I would have to go back to see what the appraisals actually read, but I can tell you that what we agreed to was well in excess of what our appraisers felt the property 94 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 was worth at the time of the assessment.
At the time of the assessment? At the time of the assessment is prior to the improvements that you'll be making.
And we'll just -- the tax and claims statement and settlement in the development agreement is basically Pages 14 and 15, goes through a lot of detailed information. So it's something that, hopefully, you'll all be able to look at. And we'll revisit it as well.
Thank you very much. 95 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Are there any further questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.) MR. McPHERSON: Our next witnesses are representatives from the Police Department.
Mr. Primavera, are you going to be staying for the conclusion.
Good afternoon. Welcome. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: My name is Patricia Georgio Fox. I'm First Deputy Commissioner of the Philadelphia Police Department.
Yes. Are you going to be testifying on -- 96 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: I can certainly make remarks if that's what you would prefer.
That would be fine. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Okay.
You need them too (referring to Deputy Fox putting on reading glasses). DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: I can't help it; it's age. When possible casino locations were originally developed, the Philadelphia Police Department did site surveys of each of the locations to determine a possible deployment strategy for each. To that end, we have developed a vision for the proposed sites, which includes three basic police concerns: traffic control, which certainly was our primary issue when we did our site surveys; pedestrian and crowd control based on the events at the location; 97 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 and what we call "perimeter crime problems." We did site surveys at each, and I imagine what we're discussing specifically is Foxwoods today. Traffic patterns and congestions along Delaware Avenue are the most immediate problems that will face the Police Department. This site does feed in from Delaware Avenue, which faces congestion even now during peak hours. Also, I-95 will affect the flow onto the Delaware Valley, as it currently does. When a problem develops on I-95, Delaware Avenue becomes a major detour route. With the state police now handling I-95 through the City, coordination with them will become critical in terms of our traffic plan. We've also discussed with other facilities -- with other areas that have gaming facilities such as 98 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 these the issues of crime. In most of those areas, crime would initially rise in the area of property crime, and once the police deployment was placed out there, those crimes diminished. The point that I'd like to make from the Philadelphia Police Department standpoint is that everything that we've done here has been done in theory. We've spoken to as many places as we could, and the figures and numbers that we have on paper are actually that; they're on paper. Until infrastructure is begun, until we have a chance to see what the facilities are actually going to be able to provide, that would certain make a difference in our deployment strategy. We do believe that we have a fairly good starting point with this. There are three factors that will 99 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 certainly affect our deployment plans: the length and capacity of the valet parking; external cameras, if there are any, and their positioning; and the security that's hired by the casino and their extent of coverage. And I'd also like to point out that, as is the case with most of the gaming facilities throughout this country, the state police are normally responsible for that crime which occurs on what's called "the gaming floor." And so any area that's either on the floor itself or connected to the floor would be the responsibility of the Pennsylvania state police. Anything that does not attach directly to the gaming floor would be the responsibility of the local --
So it would just be the interior? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: It's the interior and any facility such as a restaurant that has an opening onto the 100 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 gaming floor; as long as there's direct access onto the gaming floor, it's considered the gaming floor.
Okay. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: And so that had to be taken into consideration as well. This plan had been looked at in theory during the prior administration, and I have had an opportunity to sit down with Commissioner Ramsey and discuss the vision that the Police Department has, and he is in total agreement with the vision that we believe would be consistent with what we would need to do to police these types of facility. Basically, what we're talking about is the need for a dedicated unit. We don't believe that we can use officers that are already assigned geographically to the areas surrounding any of the facilities, be we have one, two or five. We need 101 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 individuals who are specifically trained and, in fact, cross-trained in all three of the responsibilities that I discussed. And so, in order to make that unit viable, we would need to have them located together. They would need to be, as I say, cross-trained. We would need specific types of officers. For example, it would be important to have bike officers, because perimeter crime would most of effectively be handled by the use of bike officers. As I think you all know, Commissioner Ramsey is a very huge fan of Segways and we've added Segways to our proposal for this -- for these facilities. And so in general, what we've put together is what we believe is a good starting point in terms of a visionary deployment plan. And as I've promised, many of the community 102 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 groups that I've visited over the years, that plan would be in place prior to opening of any facility. And in closing, it's also important to note that as the construction or the advancement of these facilities took place, we would need to be in constant contact with them, because the variables that I spoke of are just the three that we can think of that will affect our ultimate deployment plan.
Thank you very much. Commissioner, we did receive a copy of a testimony for Mr. Gillenson today, and he mentioned, as you did, projected traffic patterns and congestion along Delaware Avenue as an immediate problem that would face the Police Department, but that no 23 decisions or commitments have been made to deal with the problems since the infrastructure has not been 103 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 completed. He did, however, make some assumptions regarding what the department's needs may be. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Mm-hmm.
And I don't know if you saw his testimony. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Yes.
Okay. He indicated that there would probably -- this was an assumption. There would be a need for 160 to 168 police. Now, I am assuming, would this just be for Foxwoods or would it be for both casinos? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Okay. The 160-to-168 figure was based primarily on having two facilities on Delaware Avenue. And, quite frankly, that figure was originally based on the Foxwoods/SugarHouse facilities. Each facility carried with it 104 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 a certain number of traffic officers based on the layout of the area. And so, when we came up with this figure of 160 to 168, it was based, at least in theory, on those two facilities. Foxwoods alone would have required a minimum of, I believe it was, 65 officers. So, again, this is -- and I don't know how else to word it. This was based on our experience with the area, our contacts with other jurisdictions that have this type of facility, and what we believed was our best guesstimate for what we would need. Each of those facilities has a number attached to it. And the primary difference is access from Delaware Avenue, the amount of congestion in the area, the entrance ways and valet spacing of the vehicles, and the closeness of the neighborhoods to the facilities. 105 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 (Applause.)
Now, can we assume that the 160 police officers would be new officers to be trained? I'm sure that we couldn't take -- and I know I kept hearing you say more than once about deployment strategy. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Mm-hmm.
Well, you mean to tell me we're going to deploy 169 officers? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: 16 hours a day, 7 days a week it would 17 take that. And, certainly, the 18 Commissioner's vision and mine had been 19 that this would be a dedicated unit 20 made up of officers that we currently 21 don't have in our police department. 22 So the thought had been, at 23 least when the vision had been put 24 together, that these officers would be hired to be placed into that unit. 106 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Oh, so you're going to hire 160 new officers? I mean, when you say "a deployment strategy," I will tell you how we agonized in Council to try to get 200 new police officers in the budget, and now we're going to be taking 165 from what we thought many, many of the districts were in dire need of. (Applause.)
And if we deploy them from the neighborhood districts, I think that is wrong. I think it's absolutely, totally wrong. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: As you know, Your Honor, we do not have the hiring capability, but the proposal that had been put into the previous administration had made it fairly clear that it needed to be a dedicated unit. Whether we hired or whether we used officers that were currently in that geographic district, either way, it 107 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 would be taxing on us. And so the number that we projected, we assumed, would have to be new hires.
And, Commissioner, isn't it likely that you would need a new facility or a renovation of an existing facility to have this new police unit housed? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Yeah. Quite frankly, our vision was that if both locations are on Delaware Avenue, that we don't have a facility in the area that would be able to house anywhere near that number of officers. And so, it would require some additional facility, and then that had been built into our projection for the previous administration.
So along with the new facility, we would also need additional equipment, would we not? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: We 108 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 need the facility itself; we would need the IT needs for that facility, which have become expensive over the years because, luckily for us, our IT capabilities have increased. And we would need a variety of pieces of equipment, not the least of which are vehicles and the MDT's for the vehicles, radios for the officers. It's been very -- it's been clear to all of us, as we've looked at this, that the bicycle officers will be critical to the neighborhood comfort level, and so we would need bicycle officers and their gear and their bicycles. And so we've pried that out very well. And they are the basics; they are what we could envision now before having seen the facility. The issues of cameras and other equipment that we can't even gauge right now because we haven't seen --
109 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Commissioner, for the record, can you tell us how much that would cost? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: I believe that the startup costs for personnel and equipment for the first year, coupled with the facility and the IT needs for the facility, is $17,994,000. That's our guesstimate.
I'm sorry, million? 12 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: I 13 believe this part of -- 17 million -- 14
Is 15 that for the first year? 16 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: 17 That's the startup costs, yes.
Okay. When plans are finalized and approved and construction of facilities and infrastructure are ready to begin, how long will it take to identify a location for a new police facility, build the facility, and equip and staff it? 110 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Oh, I'm -- that's -- that's beyond my pay grade, ma'am. I know that -- our thought had been that we would be able to find an already-built facility that we would be able to convert, or at least that was our suggestion to the previous administration, that rather than starting from the ground up, that we would be able to convert some facility that was somewhere convenient to whatever the two locations were. And I don't know how long that would take. I'm... That's not something I can answer for you. The training of the officers, however, we would be able to have done well before the opening of any facility, and I believe that in this testimony, it's pretty clear that once construction were to begin, that there would have to be ongoing consistent meetings with the Police Department 111 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 for us to better gauge our needs.
It is being said, as you estimated, the cost to the City, excluding land acquisition and environmental cleanup costs, are approximately $17 million for the first year. I am being told that it will be $12.8 million annually thereafter. Would you concur? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: I think that's a fair estimate, and I can tell you that what we prepared, quite frankly, were estimates based on Foxwoods and SugarHouse, but I've priced each one separately. So the Foxwoods site would cost us somewhere, if our guess is right about what we would need, somewhere in the area of $5.5 million a year.
I assume that you wouldn't know what funds are these amounts to be budgeted? Where would they -- where would we 112 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 budget them? Where would the money come from. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: No, I do not.
Councilman DiCicco, your light's been on. Go ahead. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.
Thank you, Madam President. And good morning -- or good afternoon. And thank you for your testimony. It's quite thorough, and I do appreciate your response. Assuming we had money to hire the 160 police officers -- which, as the Council President was alluding to, there is no money in our Five-Year Plan to do that -- how long would it take to hire the 160 police officers that would be specific to this entertainment district? Because we're still needing to hire other police officers. As police officers retire 113 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 or leave service, there's always that need to fill those positions to keep our police personnel at a certain level for all other issues aside from casinos. So that becomes an additional 160 or so, so you have to kind of add 'em both together, I guess. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Yeah, certainly that's what we would do. And, you know, without being able to have a crystal ball here and guess, I would say that with our recent recruitment drive, we would probably be able to do that in a timely enough fashion. To be very frank with you, that wouldn't be my concern. The training itself takes approximately seven months once hired. And then the training to do this particular kind of work would take, in my guesstimate, several weeks more.
I'm 114 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 sorry. I don't mean to interrupt.
But do you mind explaining how the training would be different from the regular policeman's training? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: It's not that it would be different; it would be focused. And we all know that we have a traffic district that works in this city. And certainly, our district police officers capably handle traffic. But when you have situations of very specific needs, it is better to have them trained by our traffic district so that they understand the concept of pulling traffic and opening up thoroughfares that need to be open. And there are certain skills that we would train these officers to have. Perimeter crime probably wouldn't require much except for 115 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 learning to ride the bikes, because the vast majority of the perimeter crime has always been envisioned to be bike officers. I've spoken to many of these community groups, and they all understand that that would be the way to handle our problem. And then, thirdly, the issue of crowd or pedestrian traffic will, quite frankly, depend on the location and whether or not we have people, for example, attempting to cross Delaware Valley and whether we have events at the venue that will require us to have a crowd-control issue. And so, while the training will be after that, which they get as basic police officers, I think that from talking to other jurisdictions that have these facilities, they have dedicated officers who understand the dynamic of having a gaming facility, and I would think that we would be remiss if we didn't train the officers 116 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 to do all three of those. And I'm not talking about extensive -- I'm not saying they're going to be to be in the academy another six months, but I would think two or three additional weeks would be required to have them ready.
Thank you very much. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Mm-hmm.
Thank you again. I just want to go back to the issue of responsibility of police, Philadelphia police versus State police. I'm a little bit confused on this. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Okay.
The casinos that I've been in, particularly in Atlantic City, where there's either valet parking or public parking garages that are attached to the facility, one 117 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 can exit his or her vehicle, walk through the parking garage, enter a set of doors, and literally be in the casino. Tropicana is a perfect example. If you've ever been there, it's top level, you walk in, and you're immediately in a forum, if you will, of restaurants and shops that ultimately are -- (Council President Verna advises Councilman DiCicco that Mayor Nutter has just arrived.)
Okay. I'll just ask this one question and then I'll hold the others. -- that ultimately are connected by difference kinds of corridors that lead you into the casino floor. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Yes.
So I'm kind of taking a little bit broader view of this. So in effect, all of the 118 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 amenities or ancillary businesses that are involved with the casino all eventually lead onto the casino floor 'cause that's the whole purpose of why they're building that conglomeration. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Correct.
Are you saying, then, as an example, that the parking garages or parking lots would not be the responsibility of the State police; they would be the responsibility -- and I'm not trying to split hairs here, but I'm trying to figure out, where do you decide whose jurisdiction begins at what point and ends at the other point? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: I -- let me say this. We've had the discussion with the State police and the State police have made it very clear that the gaming floor is exactly that. And unless the additional facility leads directly from the gaming 119 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 floor, that it would be the ultimate responsibility of local police. However, you know, let me be also fair about this. The discussions, as you know, since you've discussed how other gaming facilities do this, is the number of private security that are used within the area is usually the responsibility of that facility. And there have been expectations that that number would certainly suffice. I would expect that we would have some patrol need within the parking facilities, yes. Another reason for the bike patrols.
I have a couple more questions, but I understand the Mayor is here, and I will hold off on any further questions. And if you don't mind, would you please kind of stick around. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Yeah, sure. 120 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 (Applause.)
Thank you. MR. McPHERSON: The next witness is the Mayor of the City of Philadelphia.
Good afternoon and welcome, Mr. Mayor. (Applause.)
Good afternoon, Madam President, members of this committee, Councilman DiCicco, Councilman Greenlee, and I see Councilman Jones here as well. My name is Michael A. Nutter, N-U-T-T-E-R, Mayor of the City of Philadelphia. (Laughter.)
You are supposed to identify yourself for the record, right? I do that a couple of times. Madam President and members of the committee and members of City Council, thank you for this extraordinary opportunity to come and share some thoughts with regard to 121 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 this particular hearing on what is generally known as the Foxwoods Casino. I wish to make four basic points. I want to provide some clarity as to where we are at this moment. As you well know, there has been a significant amount of information, misinformation, back-room conversations, and discussion with regard to this project. I think it's very important that we get some facts out on the table. First and foremost, I want to applaud this City Council and specifically Councilman DiCicco for his -- (Applause.)
-- Councilman DiCicco and the many members of this Council who have taken this issue very seriously. They've examined it in a forthright, thought-provoking, 122 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 in-depth, and comprehensive fashion. There have been two hearings to date; today makes the third. It's my understanding that in about another ten days or so, there will be a fourth. A tremendous amount of factual information has been placed on this record here in City Council, and I think that this information will help all of us in the decision-making process. And so with that in mind, the first point that I'd like to make is that I have not stated opposition to casinos in Philadelphia, but based on the information that has come forward thus far from these hearings and other sources, it is clear -- and I want to be very direct about this. It is clear that the proposed Foxwoods site is the wrong site for Philadelphia and for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. (Applause.) 123 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 (Cheers.)
Second -- and I will go into those reasons subsequent and you will hear other testimony certainly in the course of the day with much more specificity. The second point I'd like to make is that in light of the recent Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruling, there are larger issues now here at stake in light of that particular ruling similar to the issues that were taken up with the other proposed casino site in a different manner. But the most recently ruling, I believe, goes to the heart and soul of what it is that we do, all 18 of us, on a daily basis, which is to do our best to represent our constituents, run the City of Philadelphia in a forthright, open, and transparent fashion. (Applause.)
That the 18 of 124 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 us have taken an oath to not only uphold the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, but also, near and dear to our collective hearts, is the Philadelphia Home Rule Charter. We are a city of the first class, we have a responsibility and an obligation to protect the best interests of the citizens of this city, and what has happened in the past few days is that the long arm of the judicial branch has reached into this City Council and snatched out this Council's will and ability and political responsibility to represent the interests of the citizens of this city, disrupting a legislative process that was in progress. And here we sit, trying to get information about a project that could have potentially enormous impact on the City of Philadelphia. And that process, at least as it relates to the 125 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 court, seeks to stop this Council from its rightful responsibility to the citizens of this city. And so, therefore, I would say again, thank you very much, even in light of the actions from the other day, for continuing these hearings. They are important, we are getting information that we need to try to make the best possible decisions that we can. But I would only suggest to you that the action that was taken and the ruling in this particular matter have potentially far-reaching impact on the future governance of this city and that somehow, some way, in contradiction to our responsibilities under the Philadelphia Home Rule Charter, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court continues to seek to put its judgment in place of the legislative and executive branches here in the City while we're in the middle of 126 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 making decisions. No one was holding up anything; the process was ongoing. And my concern is for the future proper operations of the City of Philadelphia. The third point is, the City Planning Commission has made approval for what is characterized as Phase I of what has been laid out to the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board as a three-phase project. Only Phase I has been approved. There are -- and you will hear these concerns later. For any number of reasons, there are very serious concerns, since only Phase I has been approved, as to what the future will bring for Phases II and III. My deep concern, as mayor of this city, is that the City of Philadelphia not end up with what is charactered as a slot box, that there 127 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 is virtually a warehouse sitting at a location with 3,000 machines in it, and that's all that ends up coming out of this process. If... if... if we are to have gaming in Philadelphia, there is a way to do it, there is a way to do it right, that works for the citizens of this city, that works for the citizens of this Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and does not leave us with what has been characterized as a slot box. That doesn't serve anyone's interests at all. (Applause.) (Cheers.)
When you look at the issue of traffic, some have characterized this as, Well, you know, there will be such inconvenience. Or I've heard the further theory that somehow, some way, putting more cars on Delaware Valley will somehow solve the current problem. 128 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 (Laughter.)
That seems to defy all ends of anyone's logic. I've actually been on Delaware Avenue at Saturday at 1:30 in the afternoon; I cannot imagine how the additional traffic is going to make things better. I'm not a terrific engineer; I'm just a motorist, and I've had a license for a long period of time, and that seems to defy any notion of motor vehicular logic. So it's not just a simple issue with regard to traffic. And whether it's changing the timing of lights, going through the Planning Commission process, the additional costs of infrastructure that have been estimated with no idea where those dollars are coming from. Deputy Commissioner Fox was here at the table when I came in. The additional police and other personnel costs, none of which are outlined in our budget or Five-Year Plan, none of 129 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 which we should have to pay for as the City of Philadelphia. (Applause.) (Cheers.)
And, Madam President and members of this committee and members of City Council who are here, let me conclude with my fourth point, which is that this City Council again is to be commended for this process. We will collectively engage in a thoughtful, legitimate planning process as we move forward to get to the heart and soul of what these issues are about, get the truth on the record, so that we utilize our best judgment as we move forward in this process, and we will see where it eventually leads. But we have an obligation to the citizens of this city and the residents of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania that if there is to be casino gaming in Philadelphia, that it is done properly, it is done 130 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 respectfully, it is done thoughtfully, and that we use the best land use principles and not allow ourselves to be run over by the various interests who have their interests, not our interests at heart. Thank you, Madam President. (Applause.) (Cheers.)
Do any members of the committee have any questions?
I can't think of any other questions to ask, but I just want to thank you, Mayor, for your coming here today. As you know, these issues are not easy. You've dealt with issues when you were a Councilperson before you became mayor, and we're going to have to continue to deal with these things, and I think that you hit on 131 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 all of the points that these hearings have been discussing and even prior to these hearings and committee meetings that I've conducted throughout my district over the last three-plus years. And as I've said and you've said, this is not about casinos coming to Philadelphia; it's about if we have casinos, that we want them to be operations that we can be not only proud of but will be to the benefit of all of us, because I have said repeatedly, if we're going to have casinos, I want them to be successful for a whole variety of reasons. And your coming here today, I think, just reinforces that in the minds of other folks that we're not playing games here; we are really serious about this. And I think what the Supreme Court did was a travesty in terms of justice, but the Supremes, they 132 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 usually rule, and they've made these decisions in the past. But, again, I'm glad that you're here, and it helps us get our message out to let everyone know that we're not obstructionists, although as I said in my speech yesterday, if protecting the citizens of this city and protecting the jobs along the waterfront and future development of our central Delaware waterfront suggests that I am an obstructionist, then I wear that label proudly. But thank you again for being here.
Thank you, Madam President. And I certainly agree with what Councilman DiCicco just said and, Mr. Mayor, what the -- the concerns 133 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 you raised about the traffic and the public-safety issues and all, you know, I think concern all of us. You know, I certainly agree with you. And I agree that I think the Supreme Court decision was wrong that was given yesterday or, I guess, two days ago. But I guess my only question is -- and it might be too early to ask this and I guess you guys are trying to figure this out, but the decision is the decision, you know? I mean, the Supreme Court did make a decision, whether we agree with it or not. And, I guess, where do we sort of go from here? I mean, I think we still keep asking questions, I think we still raise our concerns but, I mean, just as a city, you know, we had the highest court in the state give a decision. Where do we go with that? And, again, I might be asking this too early.
I understand. 134 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
I appreciate your question. We're reviewing, of course, the decision. We're exploring all of our various options, and I look forward to continued conversations with City Council as we develop future plans for how to deal with this. But, again, I would, of course, respectfully suggest that even the process that Council is continuing to go through right now is a very important component of how we move forward. And as I said in my opening statement, I've not said that I was opposed to casinos in Philadelphia, but I did hopefully make it fairly clear that I think this is a bad site for Philadelphia and for Pennsylvania for all of the reasons that I laid out, including even financial reasons. 135 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 I don't necessarily know that this site would maximize the revenues both to the City and to the Commonwealth, which has a larger interest as it relates to property tax relief and, of course, wage tax relief. So I think that our options are varied, and we will explore them and then announce them at a subsequent point in time. But I think that there are still many miles to go before this particular activity reaches a conclusion. The decision the other day was the decision. The last I checked, the 18 of us are still in charge of the City of Philadelphia. (Applause.) (Cheers.)
I'm going to -- we -- all of us took the same oath on January 7, 2008, and I meant it when I said that I was going to discharge the 136 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 duties of my office with fidelity. That's what I'm going to do.
Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. We appreciate your coming up to testify.
Madam President, thank you very much for this opportunity. I also want to just lastly say thank you very much for all of the support and cooperation that we have received throughout the administration Terry Gillen from my office, a special advisor to the Mayor on this particular issue, coordinating with your respective offices and other departments and agencies within the government. I think this is the kind of cooperation that citizens have wanted 137 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 for a long time, have come to expect, and we will continue to provide that level of cooperating as we together try to provide high-quality service to the citizens of this city. Thank you.
Deputy Commissioner Fox, would you please come back to the witness table. (Deputy Commissioner Fox returns to the witness table.)
Thank you. I believe Councilman DiCicco would like to ask you one more question, if you don't mind.
Thank you again. I have one -- we'll wait a couple of minutes for the folks to leave the chambers. 138 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 (Proceedings momentarily halted.)
Excuse me, everyone. Could we have your attention. Thank you. That's a very powerful speech to follow, but in any event, the plan that is laid out is the ideal plan, if you will, that would give the best protection to citizens and people who would frequent these casinos, assuming they're built, but understanding that we do not have in our Five-Year Plan -- and I can't speak for the other members of Council -- I conceivably can't figure out where we come up with this $17 million in the first year and $12 million a year thereafter. Is there a backup plan? Is there a plan or has there been some discussion on the what-if we're not able to fully fund the ideal situation that we would like to have in place 139 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 but realistically we won't? How would we handle these issues? Given the number of police personnel that we have today, how does that change things within your department? And has there been any thought given to that? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Well, quite frankly, the current police commissioner and I have not had the what-if discussion, but I can tell you this, that independent of a facility and the IT needs of that facility, if our estimates are correct and there would be 65 officers needed to be assigned full-time to Foxwoods, we would have to find 65 officers. Our responsibility, as we see it, is public safety and is an improved quality of life for the citizens of this city, and that would be our responsibility to ensure. And so if the traffic details and the projections for crowd or 140 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 pedestrian traffic and perimeter crime continue to be as they are, then somewhere in our department, we would have to find the 65 officers for that detail. Where we would house them and how would with manage that, I don't know, but I can't imagine that we would be able to put together a plan that would not involve dedicated officers to the area that, I think, would be necessary.
Okay. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: And so, quite frankly, we would go out and we would find 65 officers that were doing something else and they would be placed into that detail.
So it's fair to say that those 65 officers would be redeployed or deployed to the central Delaware waterfront, the casino district, if you will, from other districts throughout the City, 'cause 141 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 there's no other place to get them from, I mean, unless we hired 65 more. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Right.
But we still would not get to the 160-plus that, in your department's estimation, would be needed to have a -- to patrol the area in an adequate fashion. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Yeah, I can't imagine being able to do it in any other capacity, without sitting down and having long discussions with members of our police department that we could do this in any other way but to siphon those officers off.
And how many police districts do we have currently citywide? DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Patrol districts, we have patrol 22 districts. 23
Okay, 23 districts, so simple math says if you took 3 from each, you'd get your 65. 142 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Just simple math. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: If you wanted to do the math that way.
Each police district would be down a minimum of -- down by at least three officers -- DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Or a special unit would decrease.
Or a special unit details. I have no further questions. And thank you again for your testimony. DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOX: Mm-hmm.
All right. The committee will stand in recess until 1:15. Thank you very much. (Applause.) 143 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 (Committee stands in recess.) * * * (Proceedings resume.)
The committee is now back in session. Our first witness will be the Fire Commissioner. (Witness comes forward.)
Good afternoon. FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: Good afternoon, Councilwoman.
Commissioner, please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: Okay. Thank you. Good afternoon, Council President. Good afternoon, Councilman. I'm Fire Commissioner Lloyd Ayers, City of Philadelphia. I submit the following testimony regarding the impact of the gaming on 144 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 the Philadelphia Fire Department operations. This is a preliminary-needs assessment for the Philadelphia Fire Department regarding appropriate response to each proposed gaming site. These projections are based on providing service immediately. To conduct accurate assessments for the future five years and five and ten and fifteen years, a more thorough and sophisticated analysis must be undertaken that would include measuring response times and evaluating staffing redundancies. As the Philadelphia Fire Department is currently configured, we can provide suppression services to each of the proposed locations with our current complement of fire stations and apparatus. When evaluating the emergency medical service capabilities, it seems fairly consistent that we could 145 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 anticipate increased call volume from the gaming sites that are ultimately built at any location. Therefore, an additional EMS unit would be required in the area of any gaming facility that is built. And in an attempt to provide some very preliminary figures that establish a basic idea of the financial impact anticipated, I am including the costs associated with each item that would be required to provide adequate emergency services. An EMS unit, $123,000; that's for the vehicle and supplies. Fire service paramedic salaries, $58,000 times 4, or $232,000. It is anticipated that at least one of these units will be needed to be deployed in close proximity of any eventual site. One propose proposed handle their own 9-1-1 emergency medical 146 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 emergency service calls, but this is not a viable solution for the City of Philadelphia. The Philadelphia Fire Department, in conjunction with the Department of Public Health, is responsible for handling 9-1-1 emergency medical services calls that fall within the borders of the City, as outlined in Executive Order No. 11 7-88. At this time, if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer those.
Thank you very much. Commissioner, you testified that the cost for creating an additional EMS unit within the Fire Department is approximately $455,000; that's the equipment and supplies. Does that also include fringe benefits? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: This evaluation included the fringe benefits 147 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 for those persons.
Also, you state that one of the proposed casino developers offered to provide its own EMS needs but this was not a viable solution. Would not it make sense to accept such an order to supplement the City's capabilities to respond to an emergency medical condition? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: As far as to allow them to do that?
Mm-hmm. FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: We felt like, based on the executive order, the level of fire-based EMS, that the City of Philadelphia would that person or that unit to respond.
Also in your testimony, you state that the existing Fire Department resources are sufficient to provide fire-suppression services to each of the proposed casino 148 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 locations. However, you also state that a more thorough and sophisticated analysis must be undertaken that would include measuring response times and evaluation of staff redundancies. Does this mean that the Fire Department can currently suppress fires on vacant lots but that studies must be done to determine what services and equipment will be necessary to control fires once the casino facilities are constructed? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: That is correct. We see -- have seen some proposals, but we have not seen what that final unit would be or what the future is. Based on five-year -- five- and ten-year studies, we'd have to see what's there, what the volume is, what calls that come in, all of those types of things.
Can you tell us how will additional 149 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 construction in the areas to be served create redundancies in staff? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, one of the things that when we stop and we look at what's being built, what those calls would be coming into that area, we would see if -- over measured time, we would see if more staffing is needed, another unit that may be needed, we would see what that volume is, and we cannot measure it until it actually presents itself.
Can you further tell us the current status of the analysis that, quote, must be taken, end of quote? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: The current status of the analysis is that we've looked at what's being proposed and we've just projected, based on that, that we know immediately we'll need at least this. And, of course, we would measure it as it's built out, as it's opened, as we see volume, traffic, 150 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 et cetera.
Commissioner, I know that you and we have been very concerned about EMS units. FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes.
If, in fact, the casinos were to be constructed, how would you ever be able to get a unit together in a timely fashion? How long does it take for delivery to be -- to be made of whatever equipment you need such as the vehicles? And, again, it would be advertising, testing, training; how long does all of that today? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: Well, our initial projection was for a year, because we don't know exactly what the time frame would be, but within a year, we could say that we would be able to have back-filled in members and also -- and equipment to start the immediate service to that area, but it's only 151 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 based on the proposal and what we see. So we would still have to analyze and go forward, but it would only be for what's presented to us now. I would take a year is what we're looking at.
For an EMS unit to be in place? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: To be in place. Immediately, we would do it with details and do it with taking equipment from another area or -- not taken from another area. Let me say this:
Please. FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: Equipment that's backup equipment from another area and place it in service and use details and overtime just to temporarily set up so that we could immediately operate. It would take a year to actually back-fill those folks in and get the equipment built and on 152 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 site to replace what we're doing and actually have an operation that's not details and not borrowed equipment from another battalion.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.
Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Commissioner. I know you have another appointment so I'll try to be as brief as I can. Your testimony speaks to EMS units. Would that be one per casino? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: That is one per casino.
Where would they -- assuming the casinos are built at the proposed current locations, where would you house these units? Do you have a facility in which you can house them? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: We 153 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 have facilities that we could put two other units in right now. We would probably look at an analysis and look at the runs for that unit. And if they needed to be adjusted, we would probably move them to other areas. Engines --
In what proximity to the proposed sites would these units be positioned? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: Within and one within about a one-, one-and-a-half-mile radius.
And when you do your analysis -- or maybe it's not in your analysis yet, but given the anticipated increase in traffic that these facilities will bring to Delaware Avenue, has that been taken into consideration as it relates to response time at the locations that you're talking about these units being placed 154 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 a-mile-and-a-half radius? Are you taking into consideration the length of the response time, which, I guess, one would have to be in a situation to really understand it, but given the analysis and the figures that we've given about the increase of traffic, one would have to assume that it's going to be taking a little bit longer than normal to get from Point A to Point B, Point B being the casino, and then back to the hospital or wherever. FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: Absolutely. The traffic concerns us. And we know that running into the traffic -- again, the traffic that we have today on Delaware Avenue is an issue, which is why we wanted to use the closest stations that could house an EMS unit with the current apparatus and equipment that's there. We looked at those and said we'd try to get that unit stationed in 155 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 that area. That was the best that we could do for now.
As it relate to the Foxwoods site, where would the unit be located? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: We would try to like at Engine 53 Station --
Fourth and Snyder? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yes. Also, we talked about Engine 3. And also, there's a few other stations in the --
Is there room in those facilities? Would there be room in those facilities for another vehicle? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: For one. We're looking at Engine 3 for 156 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 one.
But Snyder Avenue wouldn't be able to accommodate -- FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: I beg your pardon?
Snyder Avenue wouldn't be able to accommodate another vehicle, would it? (No immediate verbal response.)
That's fine if you don't know. FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: Yeah, I'll double-check on that, but --
That would be helpful. FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: -- all of those stations across that corridor were stations that we looked at, and we tried to --
East side of Broad Street? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: 157 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Exactly.
Where's Engine 3 located? FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: That' s at Washington Avenue, Third Street.
Okay. Are there any other questions? (No further questions.)
Okay, thank you, Commissioner. FIRE COMMISSIONER AYERS: Okay, thank you very much.
Our next witness? MR. McPHERSON: Pennsport Civic Association and Whitman Council. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record.
My name is John Moraski (sp?). I live at 110 McKean 158 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Street.
My name is Lou Carberry (sp?). I live at 1929 East Moyamensing Avenue.
I'll be going first. Thank you. The reason why I was called here today was to speak about the water damage that has been done to my house since I bought the house in 2002. My wife and I were married in '02 and we bought the house really before we were married. The house needed extensive work. We put a new front on the house, a new back on the house. Luckily, my father's pretty 159 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 handy so him and I did much of the plumbing and the electric in the house well. In 2004, it was a proud moment. I had my basement finished, so I had a guy's place to go to. We have hardwood floor all through our house except for in the basement, so I thought it would be a great place to roll around with the boys when they came and things like that. So my wife was pregnant at the time and we were expecting our first son. And in 2005, we had a large storm in April. And we were walking down the street up to our knees in water. I live at 110 McKean, so I'm just a little bit before the halfway point on the block. So there was some water damage to cars and things like that, but then my basement had about a foot-and-a- half of water in it and my rugs were destroyed, my furniture had some water 160 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 and things like that. We tried what we could to have the rugs repaired. We had the Shop Vac that we rented that night. We had them steam-cleaned after that. We thought that the problem may have been in our plumbing 'cause my father and I had done it ourselves, so we had some professionals come out and look at the water lines, the sewer lines. We had a bathroom in the front of the basement, and to our surprise, none of those things -- the plumbing that we did was faulty in any way. The professionals came out and told us about some preventative measures. We can put some shutoff valves in certain places, black-flow preventers, which we did. We wrapped our sewer pipes with some preventative wrapping. And in the summer of 2005, June and July, we had our second and third water damage take place. So at 161 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 that point, we had to take our carpets up. There was -- they weren't able to be saved at that point. Our insurance company came out and advised us -- well, they gave us some money for some repairs, and they advised us not to put carpets back down there obviously. I installed a vinyl tile floor and a new hardwood in a small office area that I have for myself. The City came out and cleaned the sewers at that point after the neighbors called and complained, and we hoped that that would solve most of the problems with the water in the basements for myself and many of my neighbors. So in -- we lived with that for quite a while. We didn't have any water damage over the winter and into much of the summer and some of the summer in '06, so we purchased a new rug, almost a large area rug, we put 162 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 that down there. And our idea was to roll it up during the summer months, when the water usually came in. So in -- again, in June and July of 2006, we did get water damage. We kind of anticipated at that point, June and July being the months where we received the most water, so we were kind of prepared at that point, although there was no way to take up the hardwood floor that I put in my office as a preventative measure. So that was destroyed at that point as well. At this point, we still don't have any indication of where the water's coming from. As I said, we've done a lot of preventative measures. We've also had to replace a washer and dryer because of water damage. We've had to, as I said, replace rugs, replace hardwood flooring and things like that. As I said, we thought we had 163 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 it figured out with the water damage happening during the summer months, but just this past March, on March 8th to be exact, we found about a foot of water in our basement during a rain storm.
At this point, I'm 30 years old, I've lived on McKean Street my entire life. My wife and I are seriously considering moving out of the community. It's not noting that I want to do but it's getting difficult making all of the repairs in my home and convincing my wife that this is a good place to stay, considering the things, the water damage and the problems that we're having, considering our two boys now with the mold problem that may be occurring in our basement.
Again, we're at 110, and the sewer would be in front of 164 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 100, so we're fairly close to the sewer. My neighbors -- all of my neighbors leading up to my house get some type of water damage. When I've gotten the damage in my basement, they've gotten theirs as well. Some of them have sump pumps, some of them have other measures that they take. But actually, most times, as I said, we have water in our basements. We also have flooding on our street. And the cars, when they come down, create a type of wake, and it pushes the water into some neighbors' basement windows, things like that, so we have sand bags down there, and it kind of looks like a disaster area when it rains.
Has the Water Department been able to ascertain why you get the flooding?
No. As I said, we've had professionals out, we've had 165 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 the Water Department come out to come to clean the sewers. Certain friends of ours who work for the Water Department stop by and try to take a look and things like that. The funny thing also is that the water, after a certain amount of time, maybe a half hour or so, it just dissipates, so we don't have to actually pump the water out of our basement, where some of our neighbors do. Ours dissipates, and I'm thinking it probably dissipates into my neighbors' basements, who then pump it out with their pumps.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon. Did you have any flooding this past summer, '07?
In '07? No, we didn't have any in '07. That's when I 166 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 said I thought it was done with. And then in March, we did.
And then more recently, a month or so ago, we had a heavy downpour over one weekend; did you have any flooding then?
Okay, 'cause a lot of the stuff -- I don't know if you attended the Pennsport meeting that I put together, I think maybe a year ago already; I lose track of time. I noticed a lot of the problems that we were having south of you seemed to have been somewhat corrected as a result of main that we put in on Snyder Avenue.
There's a lot more work that will be done. I've been working with the Water Department, 167 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 and you will probably, in the next few days, maybe a week or two, you and the rest of your neighbors will have a list of what was already corrected and the anticipation for the further reconstruction of sewers in and around your community. I'm not saying your block, 'cause I don't have the list in my head, but there's a significant number of sewer improvements that we're going to continue as a result of these problems that we've been having, so I just wanted to let you know that.
And you will have a list sent to you by my office shortly.
Good afternoon. 168 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Hello. Since -- I've lived in this property since 1977. I never really had any significant water problems until about 02 or '03. At that time, I started to get a little now and then, and then it got progressively worse. And the thing that was really confusing was that on the same row I'm on, it would skip houses; everybody didn't get it. And I'm probably two full blocks west of John. I never got it. However, then it started, and once it started, I kept getting it more and more often; not every time but more and more often. Till finally, in June of '06, we actually had a total backup of the sewer, and everything was in my basement, like shin-deep. And I mean everything: human feces, used condoms, old rags. It just backed up through the system and came into my house. 169 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 At this point, I had a choice of either fixing it or getting out, because you can't live under those conditions. At that point, I brought in a contractor to pump out the basement along with us and had work done. Since I've had the work done, I haven't had a problem, but it cost me $9400. I -- you mentioned the Snyder Avenue. Myself, the time may be coincidental, but I attribute the Snyder Avenue, whatever they did there, diverted something to the avenue where I live, because I don't remember having a problem before that construction was being done on Snyder Avenue. Now, I'm not really sure of the dates, but it seemed, in my mind anyhow, the more I thought about it, the more the Snyder Avenue construction was there and the more I 170 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 got water. So I mean, it was just -- and it just became -- once you got what I got the last time, you had to make a call -- either fix it or get out. And I was lucky enough to have the resources to fix it. But some people still in my area are still getting some water. And the other thing is, west of me, just across the street, they don't seem to have the problems we have on the east side. Now, I may not be a hundred percent correct about that, but it doesn't seem like they're putting out the same trash that the people on my side of the street are putting out.
'06 was the last major flood and then you hired a plumber to fix --
I had a plumber -- I had a contractor who actually dug out into the street and 171 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 connected into the soil pipe totally new.
And I don't know if you -- I had two or three public presentations by the Water Department in your community, one at Pennsport Civic, one at Our Lady of Mt. Carmel, and I think I did one a little west of your community. But, you know, the Water Department went out and we -- they put robotic cameras through the systems. A lot of the problems were attributed to the way, years ago, plumbers installed the lateral pipes below where they should have been, and that 172 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 has to do with the elevation. So it's not unusual that you may get flooding, but the persons next door, on either side of you, don't experience any of it. That is one of the issues. I think what may have happened -- you didn't have any flooding in '07, right?
I think, obviously, your directions were probably helpful, but I think when the flooding was in relationship to your concern about the Snyder Avenue project, that may have caused it because that was always a problem because the main was too small for the system. Now that the larger main has been installed, I'm hopeful for you and the rest of your neighbors that that situation has been remediated, 173 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 but we will know, and hopefully, with any heavy downpours over the spring and summer, you won't experience it. But I think that's -- it was probably at the same time that they were doing the work you were getting the flooding. I don't know if it was a direct result of the work that was being done.
But it was probably a result of the system that was in place being too small for the capacity to -- handle the capacity that is now in that community. So hopefully what we've done -- and you'll have a list. By the way, your community pretty much up and down Second Street from Moyamensing east will have a breakdown of all of the work that's been completed and the work that we anticipate over the next several months.
Well, let me say 174 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 this: I was at a meeting at Furness High School. I think you were there.
And at that point, we questioned -- the Water people there -- about that. And I'll say this to you: I don't know -- I work on the waterfront. They negated that the tides and the rain had anything to do with this. Now, I worked at one point at Pier 34, 36, which would be a little north of Christian Street on Delaware Avenue. When they were building those new homes there -- which, to me, tells me what I see, not what they're telling me -- they had a hell of a time keeping water out of those first levels for about two years. So them 175 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 telling me that the rain and the high tide doesn't play a factor doesn't mesh with that I see physically.
Yeah, I kind of agree with you 'cause I went to more of those meetings than I care to remember, but more recently, a few weeks ago, there was -- the Water Department again went to the Sharswood School, and, I guess, the upside for me was, when i went there, there were only a handful of people, which tells me that a lot of the problems that we had a few years ago may have been resolved. I assume that's why there was very little attendance. But, again, not to belabor the point, we're getting to continue to work to correct those problems where the old systems are, upgrading systems. It's very costly, as you know, and time-consuming, but we are -- the emphasis is pretty much in your community right now and all the 176 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 way up the river, up through Northern Liberties as well.
Let me say this: Had I known about the Sharswood Meeting, which is my fault -- I didn't -- I would have been there, because this isn't -- it's not something that's ended, I don't think, especially --
I'm not -- I only asked for purposes of were you there --
Oh, no, I wasn't, but I wish I had been and I'm sorry I wasn't.
No, that's okay, that's okay. There were quite a few people that came to all three of those presentations, and it was very enlighting, and we took a lot of complaints, the Water Department took complaints. And so far, I think that we've corrected a lot of problems. We're 177 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 not out of the woods yet, I understand, but we're still working on it. I just want to give you that reassurance that we're not done yet.
Good afternoon, President Verna, Councilmembers. My name is Kerry Nelson, and I really appreciate the opportunity you're giving us to give testimony on this issue. I will give a disclaimer up front that I am not an engineer and don't even play one on TV, but I did work for the Environmental Protection Agency for seven eight years and spent a good amount of my time on sewage issues. So when I heard that there were going to be very large sort of mega-developments happening on the waterfront, it was of some concern to 178 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 me, because I know that already, the City of Philadelphia has significant issues with sewage not getting where it's supposed to be, or staying where it's supposed to be in many cases. And I think as we just heard, you know, the City Water Department does go around and give presentations and is actively working on this topic, but I always find it interesting that the presentations given are always entitled "storm water-something" or another are. And, really, that's a bit of a euphemism, because while it's true that storm water or wet-weather events often act as a trigger for the problems that are inherent in the system to manifest themselves, really, the bigger part of the issue is, actually, human feces. And storm water triggers it, but the human feces, the actual sewage, really is the bigger problem that the City 179 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 already has. It gets out of the pipes, it backs up in streets, it backs up in people's basements, it goes into the river. And so, sort of -- just as a preface there, I think the 800-pound gorilla in the room is sewage. So if I may, I'd like to give you a handout, if possible, if that's acceptable?
And I will tell you I am not graphically-inclined at all, so these are not my visuals; these are actually part of a presentation that the Philadelphia Water Department is going around giving. This one was done March 13th, I believe. But just very, very quickly looking at the first page, and it sounds perhaps like you folks may be more knowledgeable than even I am, having probably spent an awful lot of 180 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 time dealing with these issues, but it sort of shows the issue; that in some parts of Philadelphia, where we have separate sewers, if there's a wet-weather event, what you have running out, getting into people's homes, et cetera, is pretty much limited to, quote, storm water, what we think of as storm water, something that comes off your roof, something that may run down the street. But if you look at the diagram on the left, what happens in areas where the storm water system is not separate from the sanitary system, there is only a given amount of capacity in those pipes. And when the pipes are full, either, you know, Joe Tasker can't get his sewage into the pipe that runs in the front of his house and then continues on its trip to the sewage treatment plant; or, if Joe Tasker wants to get his sewage in, the pipe has to give up sewage to 181 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 somewhere, and sometimes that means that it goes out into a river, sometimes it means it pops up in the street, sometimes it means it ends up some somebody else's basement. So the really issue here is what happens when you don't have adequate capacity. In this area of South Philly, there are a variety of the problems, as Councilman DiCicco was referencing earlier, having to do with systems that are old and perhaps not put in with the best engineering to begin with, but what I'm not entirely clear about is whether there is simply adequate capacity to keep all of the material that needs to stay in the pipes in the pipes. What the City has proposed, I gather, is on the second diagram, and that shows a section of South Philly with blue lines, I believe. And, again, this is not my graphic, but the blue lines, as far as I know, 182 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 represent existing sewer lines. And sewage generally flows towards Columbus Boulevard, and once it reaches the large pipe there, the interceptor goes south to the plant. If there is not adequate capacity at any point along the line, then there's going to be either an inability to put material in, or there has to be, quote, relief. So the Water Department is proposing a system that will, quote, relieve, as you see at the top of the page, relieve some of the existing hydraulic overload. What I found interesting in talking with the Water Department on one or two occasions is the Water Department's recognition that there is a significant problem, but their belief that the answer to the problem is not to keep the water -- keep the sewage in the pipes and take it down to the sewage treatment plant and 183 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 treat it, but to have it go to the river. About a little over a year ago -- I don't know -- again, I lose track of time, but there was a symposium held down in South Philly at one of the schools there, and a number of people came the Water Department. Joe Fiola, who is, I believe, the head of the Water Division at DEP's Conshohocken office was there, various people were giving presentations. And what was interesting to me, at a break, a few different guys who work for the Water Department came up, you know, to have a conversation with me, and they were absolutely adamant that their job was not to keep the sewage in the pipes, but their job was to get the sewage from South Philly into the river, without treatment.
They were absolutely, positively adamant about that and 184 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 could not be shaken, the reason being, according to them -- and it's a practical consideration -- is it's got a long way to go. It's got to turn, it's got to get in every pipe along the way, and there has to be adequate capacity in every single pipe along the way. So if you want a fast fix, the fast fix is, don't treat it, just relieve it and have it pop out somewhere else without treatment. So what I'm sort of hoping from this process and from any legislation that may result from it is that City Council will require, before any -- particularly any mega- developments occur, that the Water Department find a way to get the sewage that already should able to fit into the system actually to the sewage treatment plan and not add hundreds and hundreds of thousands of gallons to a system that already is not 185 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 working. I'm hoping that improvements, if there are any, can be done so that not only would they address any mega- development on the site but would also help adequately address the sewage issues that already occur in that area. People, I don't think, really like to think about sewage very much. One of the reasons that it often is not on the forefront of, you know, government's agenda until it starts back up into people's homes, but it is sort of key. The job of the government is to protect the public's health, safety, and welfare, and the first of those three is the public health. Again, it may not -- I may be telling you things that you already know, but sewage -- medicine will often tout its many advances, but engineers will tell you that it is not 186 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 medicine that's responsible for saving the majority of lives in the past 150 years; it's sewers. Keeping human feces away from humans is absolutely essential. You know, sewage is full of things. You probably already know of fecal coliform, but there are other types of bacteria like e coli, which can be extremely debilitating, can in some instances lead to kidney failure. There are viruses hepatitis A that's primarily transmitted by contaminated food or water. There are parasites like giardia that can end up dehydrating a person to the point of death. There's cryptosporidium, which is life-threatening for anybody that doesn't have a truly healthy immune system. I used to work on the City of Pittsburgh's sewer system. They also have a lot of locations where there is raw sewage entering their waterways 187 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 totally untreated, and they're trying to take actions to address that. But there was a particularly sad event while I was working on this matter, where there was a significant rain event. There were some people, I guess, that needed help because of flooding. First responders were out all over the place. And one of the guys that responded was a guy in his fifties. He was a volunteer firearm who was going out to help people during the flood. He helped the people out, but in the course of doing that, he came into contact with sewage-contaminated water. And, unfortunately, he contracted an infection, the pathogens got the better of him, and he eventually died. This is a matter that, although often unseen, is probably more important than sometimes we want to admit. One way that we could 188 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 hopefully ensure that any sewage from a newly-built mega-complex, whether it's a casino or anything else, but something that's going to add an enormous new strain to our already overburdened system would be to require that facility to express-sewer their waste down to the sewage treatment plant. Again, I'm not an expert on the Philadelphia system, but my understanding is that the sewage treatment plan has pretty adequate capacity.
And if you can actually get the sewage there, it will probably get treated and probably get treated pretty well. The issue is getting there. You can require that it gets there; you can simply require that they build a sewer that takes all of their waste there without any points where it's going to come into contact with the rest of the system, overload 189 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 that system, and cause anything to discharge out into the waterway or into somebody's basement or somewhere else. In the absence of that, I would hope that any legislation that comes out of this requires a full and adequate characterization of the system from some short distance upstream or up sewer shed, as we say, from the new facility and all the way down to the sewage treatment plant, taking into account the hydraulics along the way discharges and any overloads, the amount of discharges that currently occur. There are what they call "relief points" or CSO's all the way along the whole step to the sewage treatment plant, and there are discharges from there. So I would hope that that system would be truly adequately characterized, and I would suggest that any contribution that the 190 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 facility would make to that would not only keep all its storm water out, which I understand is a part of the proposal, and that is a good thing, but also, I would suggest that there be sufficient reduction in what they're going to put in so that it will not increase any flow or discharges, any discharges below the point that that construction enters the system. And I would, again, suggest that the way that is managed and any contributions that go in, the reduction portion of that be maximized at times of highest flow. So, for example, you could require that they build holding tanks so that they're holding all of their actual sewage during times when the system is being overloaded, so that at the time there is a hydraulic overload in that pipe, they're going to hold in a tank and they're going to wait until the level 191 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 in the pipes goes back down, and then they can start releasing back into the system. I would also hope that any contributions that the facility is going to make to a separate storm water system, leaving the sewage aside for just a moment, would be monitored for PCBs, because that is a pollutant for which there is what they call "a TMDL," total maximum daily load limitation in the Delaware River. So it ought to be tailored for any TMDLs that exist, and that any discharges from that storm water system be given actual numeric discharges for any pollutants that are likely to be in that storm water. At base, you know, I guess what we know is, the system in that area is already hydraulically overloaded, it's already taxed, we're already spewing sewage out into our environment. 192 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 We know that when humans come into contact with raw sewage, untreated sewage, it poses a severe health risk, and we know that there's a proposed contribution of hundred of thousands of gallons of additional raw sewage into a system that already doesn't have capacity. So whatever legislation results from this I hope would include significant characterization and waste minimization requirements. Thank you.
Any questions or comments from the members of the committee? (No questions.)
Our 193 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 next witness? MR. McPHERSON: Is the Water Commissioner. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good afternoon, Commissioner. COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Good afternoon.
I'm not going to recognize you soon with the weight you're losing. COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Good afternoon, President Verna and members of the Rules Committee. My name is Bernard Brunwasser and I am the Water Commissioner for the City of Philadelphia. To my left is Mr. Steve Furtek, who serves as the Water Department's chief engineer and is also the general manager of planning and engineering. I'm here today to present testimony regarding the proposed 194 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Foxwoods Casino development project and its impact on the City's water, waste water and storm water and infrastructure. As you may know, the Water Department reviews all new developments to ensure that adequate water, waste water, and storm water infrastructure is available to support the proposed development or that provisions are incorporated into the project that will provide for such infrastructure. It also reviews the development plans to ensure that the plans comply with Water Department standards and regulations. In the case of the Foxwoods development, there is currently adequate water infrastructure adjacent to the proposed site to support all phases of this development for both potable water supply and fire protection. The proposed development would connect to the existing water 195 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 system without significant modification. The Water Department realizes that some neighborhood areas near the proposed casino site have experienced basement flooding during recent very intense rain events. The Water Department has been studying the sewer system to determine what can be done to address basement flooding during and following these events. We have now identified sewer improvements that will alleviate flooding in the Tasker Street and Reed Street sewer systems. These sewer improvement involve building additional sewer capacity from the Delaware River west to Broad Street. Foxwoods has agreed to construct a portion of this new sewer as part of its development project. This construction would increase sewer capacity and improve the system's ability to convey storm water away 196 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 from the neighborhood. The Water Department would subsequently extend the new sewer further into the neighborhood to provide additional relief. The casino is expected to construct a 7-foot-by-14-foot sewer in Reed Street or Tasker Street from the river, across Columbus Boulevard, and terminating at the intersection of either Water Street or Front Street and Dickinson Street. This portion of the overall flood-relief project for these sewer sheds is estimated to cost approximately $10 million, of which the casino will bear the cost of the first $5 million. The Water Department would be responsible for constructing the remainder of the sewer improvements which extend to Broad Street. The estimated cost of these improvements is $30 million. The overall estimated cost for 197 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 the flood-relief sewer improvements for the Tasker Street and Reed Street sewer sheds is the total of the two, or approximately $40 million. These estimates are planning- level estimates and do not take into account any significant construction hurdles that may be encountered. In addition, the department has required Foxwoods to manage all storm water on the proposed casino site. All storm water from the development will be treated onsite and discharged directly to the Delaware River. This will ensure that storm water from the casino site does not flow into the City's sewer system and, therefore, would have no negative impact upon the sewer system's capacity. This concludes my testimony. And Mr. Furtek and I would be happy to answer any questions that you may have. 198 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Thank you very much, Commissioner. The Chair recognizes Councilman Greenlee.
Thank you, Madam President. Good afternoon, Commissioner. As far as the costs that you talk about here towards the end of your testimony, first on the 10 million, you say the portion of the overall flood relief project is estimated to cost 10 million, which the casino would bear the cost of the first 5 million. Is that kind of a common way this is done? Is this a -- is the casino paying a higher portion than they usually would in -- I'm just thinking when there are other big projects, is what I'm trying to get at. How does this kind of compare?
Steve Furtek, General Manager of Engineering for the 199 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Water Department. Without the casino, for instance --
-- the City of Philadelphia would bear the cost, the Water Department would bear the first cost.
Okay. But if the casino wasn't there, would you have to do as much; you know what I'm saying? COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Well, I think this piece I could say.
Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: The department is prepared to do what it needs to do to address basement backups in that area --
Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: -- whether the casino is there or not.
Okay. COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: In 200 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 either case, the department is ready to address those problems.
I see. COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: In fact, I know Council President knows that about two-and-a-half years ago, the department embarked upon a detailed engineering study. And, yeah, for flood relief, particularly when it comes to basement backups in area of South Philadelphia, Northern Liberties, Washington Square West, and that study has now been completed, and I think we're about to release it as early as today. And one of the projects would be to -- for this neighborhood to also get that problem relieved. As you can see, it's -- $40 million is the total project estimate, so we're talking but a considerable amount of money, but we have reserved these monies for future -- in the future capital budgets of the department. 201 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
But those improvements also, you're saying, would improve the existing residents' situation, right? because of the -- COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Yes, yes. What we're attempting to do, we cannot -- no city can afford to, in theory, you know, dig up all of its sewers and make them larger.
Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: You would have to have capacity in the street, which we don't have.
Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: The way to do it, and every place can be a little bit different, but the way to do it in this particular neighborhood or this area is to run a large intercept -- new intercepting sewer --
Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: -- from Broad Street, which is the high point in South Philadelphia. 202 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: And to take that all the way down to the river. And you have to build that pipe at such a capacity that it will relieve flooding even in those very intense rainstorms that we had between 2004 and 2006. So we're doing it in that area, and we're going to do it in the other areas that we've studied as well green.
Okay. I guess what I want just to be clear on is that you're doing this -- a lot of this is to deal with the properties that are already there. COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Yes.
Whether the casino would be there or not. COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Yes.
Is that what you're saying? COMMISSIONER BRUNWASSER: Yes. 203 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
You're welcome. Commissioner, does Foxwoods' agreement to construct a new portion of a sewer adequately compensate the City for extending sewer services to their property?
The cost of their connection to the sewer system is separate from this construction and is being borne by the casino.
And how much is that? Is that included in the --
It's not included in the $5 million estimate. However, I don't know that cost.
But it's not included in the $5 million that you're referring to.
Thank you. Any other questions? (No further questions.)
Thank you very much. Our next witness? MR. McPHERSON: We're waiting for the Streets Department. (Proceedings momentarily halted.) MR. McPHERSON: We have a witness from Pennsport Civic that wasn't present this morning. Please come to the table. (Witness comes forward.)
Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony. MR KERLIN: Good afternoon, Madam Chair and Councilmembers. My name is Ed Kerlin. I'm a lifelong resident of Pennsport Civic 205 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Association. I am the counterpart to Rene Goodwin, who spoke earlier on public safety. I have some prepared comments. Since the State Supreme Court rulings, the hearings now take on the aspect of a scene from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" where Randall MacMurphy is watching the World Series on a TV screen that has gone dead, so I guess we're here pretending anyone actually gives a damn about what's going to happen to our communities once this casino is up and running, now that the Supreme Court and the Governor and Quincy Jones and Ron Rubin and Ed Snider and Harold Katz are ramming casino down our throats. Everybody who's looked at this site with any objectivity has concluded that these sites only make sense in the context of political payoffs. When catastrophe visits Delaware Avenue because of the siting 206 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 of this casino -- and catastrophe will visit -- you can be sure none of the politicians that sold us that will be around to face the families of those who are injured or those who suffer from the placement of this casino. However, in that through this hearing you are seeking input on the expert analysis on the impacts of this casino, we repeat our community's insistence of true community representation on every independent review panel involved and that there be public meetings sponsored by the panels so that they may hear from the communities before they begin their work and that they report back to the communities directly with the findings of their work. I know traffic has already been heard at a previous meeting, but traffic is among the chief concerns of ours with respect to public safety concerns. A couple weeks ago, we had 207 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 a Foxwoods traffic engineer in here whose expertise seemed more to be the engineering of the data rather than the engineering of the traffic. To this date no one has undertaken to verify any of the assumptions and the assertions made by Foxwoods on their traffic and other mitigation proposals. Under the heading of "public safety," no one has undertaken an evaluation of the effects and the dangers created by adding possibly as many as 10,000 pedestrian crossings of Delaware Avenue on busy days. On every subject under the heading of "public safety," what we in the community want to see is an honest and verified analysis of the high probability of system failures caused by the presence of this casino. There's much more at stake than the success of this casino. It's the success of the city that's at 208 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 stake, and it's about the success of our new mayor, Mr. Nutter, and it's also about the success of the families that live in the shadows of this casino. What our community expects is that any studies of the health and public-safety impacts include community participation in the planning, conducting, and reporting of the panel's findings. For today's hearing, it's our objective to suggest to this Council areas of information and analysis that need to be explored and prepared for in relation to the placement of a casino at this site, which, if left unprepared for, may cost the City and the casinos and the communities far more than anyone has calculated. There are many things we need to know, that the City needs to know to ensure and prevent catastrophic incidents and promote general safety. 209 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 We do not believe that all of the impacts of this casino have been honestly presented or honestly evaluated to date. We believe, if the harmful impacts of this casino were considered, no official sworn to protect the City's residents would allow this casino's placement at this site.
We are not sure what makes us more nervous, the things that we do know or the things that we don't know. For instance, we know that the State needs some $8 billion for road repairs and is ranked last in the country for road repairs needed. We know that we had a near catastrophe last month on I-95. And a couple of years ago, one of our piers collapsed into the river. So generally, when we're talking about safety, there's an undercurrent in the neighborhood and a real fear, you know, about the uncertainties and the unanswered 210 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 questions. Public emergencies happen every day -- heart attack, car accidents, schizophrenics going on gun rampages. Add million to an area 7 and they happen more. To date, there 8 are many public-safety questions we 9 don't have answers to. If a little knowledge is, indeed, a dangerous thing, then the conditions in our communities are extremely dangerous because no one can get consistent, honest information from this casino. Besides traffic, as we've just heard, there's some questions we don't think we want to know the answers to, like how many times does a house have to flood with sewage before that house becomes unfit for habitation? We've had two symposiums, and no expert seems to want to answer the question as to what point, where is the tipping scale where, you know, five, six, 211 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 seven times you've had sewage in your basement, the mold and all the other things. At some point, if it's ten or it's twenty times, that house is not saleable or not liveable. So as I conclude, I just want to go over an incomplete list of public-safety subject matters that we've discussed among ourselves and matters we would like to be honestly explored, honestly costed out, and honestly presented to the families being forced to live with the spillover scum factor that these casinos will produce. It is our hope that this Council explores some of the findings of the experts that we haven't heard from. We are concerned that this Council is not hearing from the DRVPC. The DRVPC did an impact of gaming on the Greater Philadelphia area, and they talk about things like crash clusters. They mentioned that there 212 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 were 287 crashes in the vicinity, and of course, the more traffic and the more people you add to an area, the incidents and the probability of failure in systems goes up. So just -- and no water and just generally descriptions of numbers of events under various categories, it's these crash clusters that we would like to have ready explored. The number of crimes in the central district. I mean, I think that in the Central District and the Southern District, there's over 25,000 violent crimes committed per year for the last two years. We're not real sure of the number of police that we have in Districts 3 and 4. The anticipated increase is needed to accommodate the casinos. We've talked about some of that this morning. And, also, there's the fact, you know, of our prison systems and the justice system, as Rene talked 213 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 about, but we have some 100,000 people in Philadelphia, parole and pretrial supervision. About 1 in 15 people residing in Philadelphia is currently in trouble with the law. Another 30,000 are behind bars and soon will come out. Philadelphia has never done enough to help keep this group heal its own victimizations and to become law-abiding citizens. So the point there is that there are a lot of criminals on our streets, and this casino is going to become an attractive nuisance for them, and so it's very likely that the crime rate in the vicinity will go up. You can count on probability of continued community opposition to this facility on the day it opens and for all of the days that it remains open.
Moving 9 million people in and out of Foxwoods increases the probability of fatalities and serious injury from accidents and crime on 214 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 Delaware Avenue simply on the basis of volume of people present. Is the City prepared for all the possibly emergencies that come along with moving million people a year through 7 a congested corridor? 8 What are the possibilities of 9 drunk drivers among the 9 million more people coming to and from Foxwoods once this thing is built? It would be useful from our perspective if the independent review panel would avail themselves of the Pennsylvania DUI enforcement associations whose experts will come in and tell you that for every 10,000 drivers, there's a certain percentage that are driving impaired. They will also tell you -- or the DVRPC that when you increase the traffic volume, you increase the likelihood of car accidents. We would also like to have the Council and the independent panels avail themselves of the expertise of 215 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 the national insurance study programs. You know, if there's anyone who knows about probabilities of accidents and disaster, it's the insurance companies. The Gaming Board is inviting million guests into our neighborhood 9 uninvited, so we have the right to disinvite them. So when the police do their estimates of costs, I hope that they will include the estimates for the cost of riot police and crowd control for the protests that will happen on opening day. Thank you. ) MR. McPHERSON: Our next department is the Department of Streets. )
Good afternoon. Please identify yourself for the record.
Good afternoon. 216 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 My name is Frank Morelli. Good afternoon, Council President Anna Verna and members of the committee. My name is Frank Morelli, Survey Bureau Manager for the Department of Streets. Joining me is Dave Perry, Chief Engineer of the Survey Bureau and Design. The Department of Streets would like to offer the following testimony on the related measure, Bill 12 No. 080083, which also pertains to the Foxwoods Casino. Bill No. 080083 is not an administrative ordinance but an ordinance requested by Obermayer Rebmann Maxwell & Hippel, LLP, 1617 JFK Boulevard, 19th floor, Philadelphia, PA, 19103. The purpose of this ordinance 21 is to authorize various revisions to the City Plan, as requested by the developers of Foxwoods Casino, in order to facilitate the design of the proposed development. The ordinance, 217 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 as introduced, differs from Foxwoods' approved plan of development. The bill authorized the striking from the City Plan and vacating of Tasker Street from Christopher Columbus Boulevard to a dead end approximately 710 feet eastwardly and reserves a right-of-way for drainage purposes, water main purposes and gas pain purposes and public utility purposes within the lines of Tasker Street. The approved plan of development, however, retains Tasker Street in its current location and converts it is from a two-way street to a one-way eastbound street and includes a 24-foot-wide driveway for westbound traffic on private property adjacent to the north side of Tasker Street. To mirror the approved plan of the development, Tasker Street would need to remain on the City Plan, and a 218 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 separate ordinance would be needed to change Tasker Street east of Christopher Columbus Boulevard to a one-way eastbound street. The necessary traffic ordinance would require concurrence with Wal-Mart Corporation. And in addition, Foxwoods would need to provide a traffic easement to allow return westbound traffic across the casino site's private driveway. The bill authorizes revisions to the curblines and grades of Christopher Columbus Boulevard from a point approximately 900 feet south of Spruce Street to a point approximately 1,200 feet south of Tasker Street and the curblines and grades of Tasker Street from Christopher Columbus Boulevard to a point approximately 250 feet westwardly. This is consistent with the approved plan of development. The bill also authorizes the striking from the City Plan and the 219 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 abandonment of an existing 50-foot-wide right-of-way for water main purposes within the lines of former Dickinson Street from Christopher Columbus Boulevard to the pier headline of the Delaware River. This is consistent with the approved plan of development. Finally, subject to the determination of the Water Department as to necessity, the bill authorizes the placing on the City Plan of either a 20-foot wide right-of-way for drainage purposes extending from Christopher Columbus Boulevard to the pier headline of the Delaware River and adjacent to the southerly side of a certain right-of-way for drainage, water main and gas main purposes within the lines of former Reed Street or a 250-foot-wide right-of-way for drainage purposes extending from Christopher Columbus Boulevard to the pier headline of the Delaware River 220 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 and adjacent to the northerly side of Tasker Street and the northerly side of a certain right-of-way for drainage purposes and water main purposes extending from the easterly dead-end of Tasker Street to the pier headline the Delaware Avenue. The plan of development does not include the drainage right-of-way at the specified location. This concludes our testimony, and we're available for any questions.
Thank you very much. Are there any questions from members of the committee? (No questions.)
Thank you, sir. MR. McPHERSON: The Philadelphia Entertainment and Development Partners. (Witnesses come forward.) ------------------------- 221 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028
Good afternoon, Madam President members of the committee. Carl Primavera again. Pennoni Associates is setting up. We have Carl St. Pierre and Mark Cilloni from Pennoni Associates, and we're going and show the detail of the storm water upgrades, which we hope will alleviate the concerns that have been mentioned. In the meantime, we're also going to hand up to the committee some brochures that will be able to track the larger exhibits which Mark will use. My suspicion is that they're going to be smaller versions of what you're seeing with the larger boards. While they're setting up, I just want to take a moment just to clarify for the record, since we have heard a lot of discussion from various witnesses regarding where we are with the Supreme Court, and just for the record, again, we want to confirm 222 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 that, as Councilman Greenlee correctly noted, the Supreme Court has ruled, and as a result of that, we have our zoning, we have our supporting ordinances, and we have the approved plan of development. We intend to honor the rule of law and we hope that the neighbors will ultimately honor the rule of law and the City, and obviously the City Council as well, which has been very helpful throughout these proceedings to allow us the opportunity to present what we believe to be the facts and the real truth about the improvements that will accompany this project. So we're here for information's sake. We're going to continue both in this chamber and outside of this chamber to communicate with Council and with the community groups. We did not seek legal action to block these hearings, as we could 223 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 have. We intend to fully follow the rule of law. And, again, we hope that ultimately, with all of the facts in hand, that we'll be able to move forward cooperatively. So that's our statement. And with that, I'm going to introduce Mark Cilloni and Carl St. Pierre from Pennoni, who have been working from the beginning of this project to make sure that not only the water and storm water but also the sewage issues have been totally addressed. Also, one final comment. Councilman Greenlee asked a very pointed question, and for some reason, the answer didn't seem to be as pointed in return. The answer is, the $5 million was a requirement from the City in the nature of a gift, that basically the improvement that we're doing over and above our own site improvements is making the 224 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 infrastructure more conducive to improvements as the Water Department does its capital improvement project. But they said, Since you guys are working in the area, we would love for you guys to make this gift to us. And that was a part of the development agreement. We don't benefit from it. So your question was very perceptive. I think that the Commissioner, in all the excitement, didn't understand exactly what you were asking, but that $5 million contribution is soley for the benefit of the City, and we're happy to do it and we're legally obligated to do it. So with that, Mark, I'm going to hand it off to you.
Good afternoon, Madam President and Councilmembers my name's Mark Cilloni. I'm a civil engineer from Pennoni Associates. Pennoni Associates is a multi- disciplined engineering firm, with our 225 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 headquarters located in the City of Philadelphia for the past 42 years. I've been a civil engineer practicing land development at the firm for years, and the majority of 7 my land development experience is with 8 projects in the City. 9 We're very happy to be a part 10 of the Foxwoods project, and I'm here 11 to describe the project in detail and 12 answer any questions that you have and 13 assure you that it's a responsible 14 development from the safety, health, 15 and welfare of the general public in 16 terms of the civil infrastructure. 17 What I'd like to do -- if 18 you'd like, I have background on our 19 company and also a resume if you'd 20 like that submitted for information.
If there's a 226 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 microphone, it might be easier to walk up to the plan.
If there are mics available for Mark to use the boards, that would be super. MR. McPHERSON: They're fixing them now.
I want to give just a little bit of background. We started the project in terms of looking at the land development infrastructure improvements back in October of 2006. So it's been more than a year that we've been at the permit applications. And a lot of engineering work has progressed. There have been a lot of meetings with the City of Philadelphia, the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection, and also the Army Corps of Engineers to make sure that we've identified all of the permits and 227 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 improvements that are necessary for a facility of this size. We've had a dozen meetings and we've gotten a lot of good review comments. We've had a lot of working meetings. To date, all of the technical problems that we've received on our applications have been addressed, everything that's been identified to us. What I'd like to do is start out with an overview of the proposed water, sewer, and storm water management systems that are highlighted on the colored plan here and that you also have in your booklet. First, the water is fairly straightforward, the water connections. We have a connection for domestic service that goes down into Tasker Street and a fire connection that goes northward into Reed Street, 228 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 and you heard the commissioner say it's minor modifications. And we've already received a letter from the Water Department stating that they have adequate water supply, confirming that they can service this site for both the fire and domestic needs. Second, the sewer, sanitary sewer connection, we currently have a 12-inch connection to Reed Street that's shown in green on the plan. And we also have a 12-inch connection to Tasker Street, which is also shown in green coming down southward. That permits requires approval by the City also for collection, conveyance, and treatment capacity, and we've worked with the Water Department. And although we haven't received any permits because they're subject to some of the zoning issues of this hearing, all of the comments that we've received have been addressed in that application, and so 229 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 we anticipate its issuance. Last, I'd like to talk about is the storm water and we heard a lot from the civic association and the Water Department about the existing conditions in the area. And when we first met with the Water Department back -- I think it was in March of 2007 to review the storm water management for our department, they alerted us to the flooding conditions in the Pennsport section of the City, and they asked us to work with them to coordinate the improvements of this project such that they would complement the City improvements that they were undertaking and proposing as part of their study. After hearing their concerns, we made a conscious decision to deal with our storm water in what we felt was a proactive way to not exacerbate the flooding condition that exists in Pennsport. 230 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 The exhibit here, there's two pictures. The top picture or graphic indicates where the storm water goes today from our site. It's approximately -- a little over a 7 20-acre site, and you can see the 8 areas that are shaded in brown. This 9 portion currently gets into the Reed 10 Street sewer system, which is a 11 combined sewer system, which has the 12 sanitary, sewer, and the storm water 13 runoff in one pipe, and then there's a 14 portion on the south site that gets 15 into the Tasker Street sewer. 16 The middle portion of the site 17 that's green basically flows from 18 Christopher Columbus Boulevard east 19 directly into the river.
20 With the plan of development, since we were recognizing the issues with flooding in the community, we thought the best thing that we could do is not put any of our storm water into that pipe since it was during 231 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 storm events is when they were experiencing flooding conditions. So what we did is took the plan, we collected all of the roof runoff and all of the runoff from the remainder portion of the site, which is highlighted in green, and directed that directly to the river. That will ensure that none of the storm water from the Foxwoods site will get into the City's system and have a chance to exacerbate the flooding condition. It's the best thing that we could do for the storm water for our site There are also other best- management practices that were employed to meet the 2006 City storm water ordinance. We have a green roof as part of the project. We have hydrodynamic separators, which collect the suspended solids that's in the first flush of the runoff, and we collect that at two chamber locations, one at the end of Reed Street, one in 232 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 between two of the existing piers. And what we do is, we take out all of the -- 80 percent of the suspended solids that's in the storm water runoff. We capture it and then discharge the cleansed water into the river
So let me see if I can just clarify that in layman's terms. So with your system, less storm water will go into the public system, correct?
And of the storm water that goes into the river, it will be gray water, it will be cleaned. So that, as you call it, the suspended or the solids will be filtered out?
So, in effect, although some people don't want to believe our project is actually green 233 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 in the sense that it will improve after development the condition from what it currently exists today.
Yes. One of the initiatives of the Water Department is to separate storm water from the sanitary sewer, and our project accomplishes that. The one thing I'd like to comment on is, as part of the proposed ordinance, there is a condition to have an independent engineer review the storm water management design. And, you know, I took a look at that condition, and in our opinion, it's really not warranted. What we have is a very basic, simple system for the storm water collection and runoff. And since we're not putting any of the storm water into the City's system, it's pretty clear that we're not going to exacerbate the flooding condition. The Water Department 234 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 essentially agrees with that, has written a consistency letter, and forwarded it to the DEP for the issuance of our storm water management permit. And it's really the first time in my experience in the years 8 working in the City that there's been 9 a request to have an independent 10 engineer review the plans for this 11 type of development. 12 The Water Department, along 13 with the DEP and the Army Corps of 14 Engineers, have sufficient staff and 15 competent staff to make that 16 independent review. 17 Just as a background and 18 overview of the Dickinson Street 19 flooding history, like I said, it was 20 actually February 2007 when we sat down and met with the Water Department face-to-face to show them what we were proposing for a storm water management plan, and that's when they indicated to us that they were going to go 235 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 through sewer improvement projects to relieve the flooding along Reed Street and Tasker Street by constructing a new sewer in Dickinson Street. When we heard that, we worked with them to ensure that whatever we were doing was going to be consistent with their plan, and I wanted to show you how we've incorporated what their -- how their sewer improvement project has been incorporated to the design of our project. The first thing we did, since they were proposing a very large sewer, 7-feet-by-14-foot reinforced concrete-box culvert, it's a very large facility. We had to make sure there was room to get that sewer pipe from Columbus Boulevard through the site and out to the river. In order to accommodate that, what we're proposing is a right-of-way addition along Reed Street. There's currently a 50-foot-wide utility 236 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 right-of-way that exists on feet on each side of the property line, for a total of 50 feet. And we're proposing an additional feet on our side of 6 the property that basically is 7 restricted and reserved for the sewer 8 improvements. So that's property that 9 we restricted in order to benefit the 10 City's flood improvement project. 11 In addition, not only did 12 Foxwoods agree to the right-of-way 13 addition, but they also agreed to 14 design, get permits, and construct the 15 last portion of the sewer improvement 16 project that's been described by the 17 Water Department Commissioner. 18 The last leg of that basically 19 runs from Christopher Columbus 20 Boulevard right adjacent to our site, out to the river. And we've, in concept, come up with a plan that the Water Department has agreed to will meet their needs. There's a lot of details that need to be worked out, 237 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 but in concept, we've come to an agreement, and that's what was entered into the development agreement, that we would build this portion, since it's in direct proximity to our site, the portion of the sewer that would connect back to Water Street. As part of that sewer improvement -- and it's fairly significant. You heard the estimate. We think it could be in the range of 10 to $14 million.
Part of that is not only the box culvert edition; right now, there's an existing box culvert, and we're going to place one beside it that will probably more than double the capacity of the existing sewer, but we're also going to construct a new intercepting chamber, which will increase the capacity of water that can be converted back to the intercepting sewer that takes the raw sewage or untreated sewage down to the southeast water treatment plan. 238 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 And I think, as Carl said earlier, the flood improvements were not required. Where these improvements are being added to the project, they're not really required to benefit the casino site. In other words, we could build the casino without these improvements, and there's sufficient City infrastructure to service the casino. But these additional improvements -- the land and the sewer construction -- was offered in good faith in terms of getting the development agreement accomplished. So I think they've done more than their fair share in terms of helping the City and the community.
And just -- there was one comment we heard from the Streets Department. Can you just confirm if it's accurate? Our plan of development, as approved by the Planning Commission, is the development 239 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 that we plan to build. There was some, I guess --
-- alternative scheme that was discussed or something like that.
Frank Morelli from the Streets Department was discussing a proposed bill that was introduced by Obermayer's office, and that described the addition of the right-of-way for the Reed Street sewer project, but it also discussed the vacation of the Dickinson Street right-of-way, which comes through the middle of the site, and it also discussed Tasker Street. I think what he said for both Reed Street and the vacation of Dickinson Street was correct, although he said -- the description in the ordinance sounded correct, but he said the development plan didn't reference the 20-foot addition. 240 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 That is a part of our plan. There's been a lot of versions of the plan that have been circulated through the City, so I think we just to make confirmation that everyone's got the right copy of the plan.
But we believe it's in our plan of development. Maybe Frank hasn't seen the latest plan.
And then on Tasker Street, just to be clear, there was, I guess, in the bill a description of striking that also, which there were subsequent meetings with PennDOT, Streets Department. And that was ongoing, so the version of the bill 21 that he had wasn't exactly coincident with the current plan of development.
And my recollection is from testimony I think of Mr. Green, and maybe it was your 241 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 testimony also under the traffic headline, that those changes were really at the request of the Planning Commission and other City agencies. So the latest version, which is the one the Planning Commission approved, was the one that the City agencies had recommended.
When you say the City agencies had recommended, that's in the prior administration.
Are there any other questions from members of the committee? 242 4/4/08 - RULES COMMITTEE - 080027, 080028 (No further questions.)
I believe there are no other witnesses. Do we have anyone else to testify? (No response.)
Seeing no one, this committee will stand in recess until April the 30th, at 3 p.m., April the 30th, at 3 p.m. Thank you.
Thank you. (Proceedings end at 3:08 p.m.) * * * 243 C E R T I F I C A T E I HEREBY CERTIFY that the proceedings of the City of Philadelphia Council Committee on Rules are contained fully and accurately in the stenographic notes taken by me on Friday, April 4, 2008, and that this is a true and correct statement of same. __________________________________ JOSEPHINE CARDILLO Registered Professional Reporter (The foregoing certification of this transcript does not apply to any reproduction of the same by any means, unless under the direct control and/or supervision of the certifying reporter.)