No, this is not Mr. 51 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 Six Pack. This is The Philadelphia Inquirer, Mr. Conshohocken.
Okay. The 1998 Major League Baseball Fan Cost Index, they looked at every stadium across the country, every stadium. Philadelphia's here, the third lowest in the country.
My question is: Is the $1.25 hot dog listed in this stand matrix a child's hot dog or a regular-sized hot dog.
My question is: What is 2.75 and what is the price indicated? I'm sure you read The Inquirer this morning.
That got your 52 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 attention.
Because if you look at the fan index, can you tell me that the actual cost of a hot dog in L.A. is less? This is an independent survey.
What I'm saying is in this handout, you indicate -- and I'm not going to quibble over a child's hot dog versus an adult hot dog, but if the child's hot dog price gets you two from the bottom and it's not accurate, then I've got to suspect the other numbers.
Well, when they surveyed, they talked to each concessionaire. This is the Fan Team Marketing Index. When they surveyed all the ballparks across the country, they specifically asked for the lowest-price hot dog, the lowest-price beer, the lowest-price 53 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 soda. I would say that that would be consistent to that report. And, naturally, everyone is giving those prices as were we.
And if you compare the 2.75 hot dog once again across the country to a comparable size hot dog, you would find that it is once again in the lowest portion of the --
But that comparison is not made in the matrix handed out and indicated that you are two from the bottom in pricing.
But it is done once again by Major League Baseball Index. They are the ones conducting the survey. It's an independent group that nothing to do with concessionaires. What they specifically look for is --
No, excuse me. It's the industry standard to measure pricing across the 54 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 country.
No, not necessarily. It's an independent group but they ask for the cooperation of Major League Baseball. In other words, we need to reply to those questions any other independent surveys, it's up to our discretion whether we want to take part in them or not.
Not to belabor this point, but projecting that this is like Consumer Reports or Ralph Nadar, I don't know is necessarily accurate if it's a Major League Baseball-sponsored activity.
But it's more accurate than necessarily a local newspaper would be. I mean, they are doing a survey across the entire country and they are asking the same questions of every ballpark rather than selecting the individual ballparks that they'd like to attend and then looking at selected items which they will either add or delete at their discretion.
I would agree with 55 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 you that maybe The Daily News has an ax to grind.
Just to stipulate, this is not The Daily News. And the reason that I find difficulty in believing your numbers is because the first set of information I get is based on a child's hot dog 1.25, which puts us way down at the bottom of the list. And then when I read this, which no one's disputing, I find that it's not $1.25; it's 2.75 to 3.50.
Well, once again, the Team Fan Marketing Index, they asked for the lowest-price item. Now, we have every reason to believe, even with the other comparisons, that they are giving their best value. The fact is we do serve a $$1.25 hot dot and a $$1.25 soda. I think that would be fairly representative in this kind of --
And the $1.25 hot dog is not listed as a child's hot dog as it is in many ballparks. It's just listed as $1.25 hot dog 56 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 that's available to any fan that wants to come in, and certainly many fans take advantage of it. In addition to that, there are several events during course of the season where fans can purchase a hot dog for $1, a $1 hot dog.
And in how many events during the course of last year did that happen?
There were six last year, and there are six scheduled for this year.
Do you have -- not at your fingertips, but can you provide how many Phanatic hot dogs were sold last year as opposed to --
I think you addressed my question. I was interested to know 57 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 how many of the $1 or the --
The $1.25 hot dogs that you sold versus the more expensive. And tell me again, the more expensive hot dog, how much is it really? Is it 2.75 or 3.50? What's the price of --
The ranging of hot dogs we have is a 2.75 hot dog sold in the general concession stands. The other hot dogs Councilman Kenney was referring to, they range from 3.25 to 3.50. They come with a choice of toppings -- chili, cheese, relish, onions saurkraut.
I don't want to lose track specifically quibbling over hot dogs. In reality, what it is, is family people trying to afford a traditional pastime out in the summer, and it shouldn't be diminished. And, again, I just want to caution the press for what it's worth. This is not simply issue of $1.25 versus 2.75. This is an issue of what it costs a family to enjoy themselves in this muncipally-owned stadium, watching America's pastime.
Well, again, referring to 58 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 U.S.A Today, a major newspaper in this country, it that says Veterans Stadium hit a home run and is the best reason to go to the game.
One question. I go to the stadium, the 300 level or whatever. I have four children with me, myself, and a male. What would it cost me to have one hot dog apiece one beer, and three sodas. Give me the price.
If you're looking for -- you can go to the Phanatic family stand and get lower-priced concessions; otherwise, it's 2.75 a hot dog and 2.75 a soda.
Let's say I'm buying three beers, two sodas, and five hot dogs. Can you just give me a price? Give me the price forget the 2.75, the 1.25. I'm running off to go to the quickest place I see for hot dogs, soda, and beer. What would it cost me? I mean, I'm not going to look around to see where it's the cheapest; I'm going to the first place I see to purchase hot dogs.
I want five 59 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 hot dogs.
I don't have a calculator. If you compare it to the standard in the industry, it's still going to be --
Comparing it to that industry is not necessarily fair to the average fan. I mean, they pay people $5 million a year out of -- (Unintelligible due to acoustics and parties speaking over each other.)
I don't go to a movie theater. The citizens of Philadelphia are 60 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 going to the stadium.
And they partake in that venue to enjoy themselves and their family. My statement is that we have become accustomed to accepting high prices and relatively poor-quality food and choice.
And I'll tell you something. I've eaten cheese steaks all over the City; the worst cheese steak in the City is the Vet.
I disagree. The facts don't measure up. We serve millions of people a year, and --
They have nowhere else to buy it. Where you going to go? 61 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349
They can bring their own food to the Vet. There's every opportunity to do that.
That's the second question I have. First of all, how many Phanatic stands are there, how many reduced stands?
Wait, a minute. There's two cut-priced stands in the entire facility?
And that's an opportunity for anyone to buy. Anyone can buy at that stand.
But there are only two readily available in five levels.
If you look at 1997, that represents 15 to 20 percent of the stands 62 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 open. I mean, we don't bury them on the 700-level, in the outfield. They're in the infield on the 200-level and --
What do you do to -- now, I don't attend a lot of games, baseball games, at the Vet. What do you do to communicate the availability of these Phanatic stands to the average fan that walks through the gate? How do they know that you have an opportunity for them to not spend a lot of money at the stadium? How do you do that? Because, let me tell you, I never knew that there was a Phanatic stand. I never knew about that.
Well, the Phillies can speak to this, but it appears regularly on the message board, it's in all the literature that is 63 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 mailed out to seasoned ticket holders. And since this is a value line situation for the fans, the Phillies certainly do a very good job of marketing and communicating that.
We would love to sell as many Phanatic hot dogs as people are willing to buy. It's a good value.
But, like the Chairman said, there's just two in the entire stadium. Tell me about football. What do you do now when the place is packed? Do you have a lesser -- do you have a --
Once again, an Eagles game is totally different, they attract a different crowd. 64 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349
Not proportionately. A different crowds comes for Eagles game.
But there's no 7 breaks at all for Eagles, even for people or adults?
Last year, I believe it was. . . I will have to give you that information, I can't quote it hear.
You can't remember how much a hot dog costs during the football season?.
There's more than one size of hot dogs at the ballpark, I mean. And things change from season to season. Even the beer cup that we mentioned before, the beer cup for the Eagles season is different from the Phillies season. 65 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349
He just told me there's only one hot dog size for the football reason; is that right?
Well, other than the specialty hot dogs. I mean, there's the foot-long hot dog, New York, and specialty.
Well, I think I'd remember that if I worked for Ogden, how much a hot dog costs in football season.
Have you done any customer survey efforts to find out what people like, don't like, what they buy, what they buy the most of, or what they don't buy?
Absolutely. I mean, it's part of the fan experience. And when we get copies of that, I can tell you just from the limited number of complaints that we get, the facts don't bear out the quality in question. You know, pricing is always an issue, you know, but there's reasons for the pricing.
Well, I want to get to that before you're done. The question I have is, do you have any idea what percentage of your fan base brings food in? 66 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349
Don't you even ask that question? I mean, isn't that a basic question?
If you asked -- you could ask them in the survey, Do you stop on the way in for a hoagie or do you bring in a sandwich?.
The Phillies so survey that, and information is available. I don't have the answer to that, but I'm sure the Phillies can speak to that.
But as a representative of the food service company, wouldn't you want to know what percentage of your clientele is bringing food into the stadium?
Sure, absolutely. But as far as we're concerned, it has minimal impact on that. By and large, you know, the fact of the matter is that we sell quite a bit of food down there.
Would you sell more 67 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 if the prices were lower?
Would you agree that perhaps the most critical factor in the price, despite the argument, the subjective argument of quality aside, would you agree that the single biggest issue relative to the price of food and beverage at that stadium is the City's desire --
In the average restaurant in the city, there's a to 27 percent 24 markup on the food, and maybe a 40 or 50 percent 25 markup on the liquor. 68 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 Now, you're going to tell me that a 60 gross revenue skimmed off the top, in addition to 70 percent on alcohol, doesn't make a difference in pricing?
Well, once again, it's not 60 percent. You have to look at --
The 58.21 only speaks to a certain percentage of the standard facility. You'd have to look at the blended rate in the ballpark.
-- it isn't that much different than it is at any our facility around the country. If you just look at --
You keep telling me the same thing, about every other facility in the country. This is not every other facility in the country; this is Philadelphia. 69 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349
How many facilities in the other cities in the country are owned by the municipality or the state government?
Because we operate at a number of facilities like that. Seattle, you know, is one specific example.
How many baseball-like venues do you operate in the country?
Of those six, how many are owned by the municipality or the state government?
What is their -- 70 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 what is the Seattle or city government's end?
So you can compare that to say that we're the same as Seattle, but the point is -- and I'm not trying to blame you guys for this 'cause I think in the end, the City may be at fault for this -- that 57, 58, 60 percent of the gross is obnoxious.
But the facts are, it's -- whether it's the city, it's a team, or whoever the client is that owns a particular facility, they're all somewhat similar, the contracts. You do have different types of contracts, you have management fees, but any time when you're dealing with a commission structure where it's a high bid, you're looking at a very large number. You may also have some that are negotiated. And, once again, you're looking at millions of dollars invested as well as a high commission. That is why the pricing that you look at across the country is similar. It's -- it's. . .
It's the dynamics of the industry. 71 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349
Because it's the dynamics doesn't make it right. And the issue is that 60 or 58.21 percent is obnoxious. And if you drop that back to a reasonable markup, that the City would get a 20, 25, 30 percent, the price has to go down. I mean, it's a -- you don't have to answer that, but it's a simple yes. I mean the answer is yes. If the City didn't get 60 percent of the gross, the prices would be lower. Now, I don't know why you feel you need to defend the City on this because I'm not going to defend it on it.
I mean, we're just pointing out (unintelligible due to acoustics) in the industry, but you're right. If the commission is lower, effectively, the prices will be lower and the profit will drop.
And perhaps there would be the opportunity for more local vendors, people who are smaller in scale, to come in there and pay a reasonable cost -- a payment to the City through a management company like yourself and perhaps offer a better -- not quality -- a better 72 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 selection. Let's get away from quality now and go to selection.
And that selection could be expanded, and you could also potentially have the opportunity for local, City, and regional people to be in there if the City wasn't skimming 60 percent off the top.
And maybe we would have Deitz & Watson, I prefer Deitz & Watson.
Are there any other questions for these witnesses? 73 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349
One quick question. You mentioned utility costs. What obligation do you have relating to water, electricity, gas?
We share in the overall (unintelligible). There's a percentage of the building for the tenants. The costs are divided among the tenants and we all share in it.
We didn't determine -- or I think you were going to get back to me or you don't know who gets the money on the surcharges on the alcohol.
That money is, once again, administered by us and it's paid out to police service and/or L&I.
Since you administer it and you pay it out, I assume you cut a check.
It's 25 cents per beer for 74 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 baseball and 50 cents per beer for football.
They aren't necessarily directed to the City. In the Eagles' case, to facilitate payments, most of that is now going to the Eagles and they disburse it to the police since they are (unintelligible).
In some instances. In other instances, we'll pay it directly to either the police and/or L&I. And we can get you that information.
Why is it that you sometimes cut a check to the Eagles and sometimes to the City and sometimes you cut a check to L&I?
It's who is ordering the 75 COMMITTEE ON LICENSES AND INSPECTIONS - RES. 980349 service at that particular time. If we're ordering L&I and dealing with L&I directly, then we cut the check to L&I.
Do you get invoices from them for what their costs are?