COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA2 COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC HEALTH AND3 HUMAN SERVICES4 - - -5 Room 400, City Hall6 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Tuesday, June 9, 20097 1:20 p.m. 8 - - - 9 10 PRESENT: COUNCILWOMAN MARIAN B. TASCO, CHAIR11 COUNCILMAN W. WILSON GOODE, JR. COUNCILMAN JAMES F. KENNEY12 COUNCILWOMAN MARIA QUINONES-SANCHEZ COUNCILWOMAN DONNA REED MILLER13 COUNCILWOMAN BLONDELL REYNOLDS BROWN 14 BILLS 090260, 090261, 09038315 RESOLUTION 090397 16 17 18 19 20 - - -21 22 V A R A L L O Incorporated Litigation Support Services23 Eleven Penn Center 1835 Market Street, Suite 60024 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19103 215.561.2220 215.567.267025 2 1
Good2 afternoon. We will call the Committee on3 Public Health and Human Services to4 order. We will recognize that we have a5 quorum in the presence of Councilwoman6 Sanchez, Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds7 Brown, Councilman Goode and myself.8 We'll ask the Clerk to read the9 first bill.10
Bill No. 090260, an11 ordinance amending Section 6-403 of Title12 6 ("Health Code") of The Philadelphia13 Code, to establish prohibitions on items14 containing lead and to add jewelry to the15 list of items that may not receive or16 maintain a lead-based coating, all under17 certain terms and conditions.18 COUNCILWOMAN TASCO:19 Dr. Schwarz, are you prepared to testify?20 (Witness approached witness21 table.)22
Good23 afternoon.24 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Good25 3 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 afternoon, Councilwoman Tasco --2 Chairwoman Tasco, members of the3 Committee on Public Health and Human4 Services. I'm Donald Schwarz,5 Commissioner of the Department of Public6 Health. Thank you for the opportunity to7 testify about Bill 090260. Thank you for8 this opportunity to present testimony.9 The incidence of childhood lead10 poisoning in Philadelphia children has11 greatly decreased in the past 20 years,12 from over 80 percent of children tested13 in 1988 to less than five percent of the14 children tested in 2008, a great success.15 Despite the success, over 1,000 children16 were lead poisoned in 2008, and new17 research indicates that even lower levels18 of lead in the body can cause harm.19 In Philadelphia, the main20 source of the lead that can enter a21 child's body continues to be deteriorated22 lead paint. Over 500,000 homes in23 Philadelphia contain lead paint. In24 addition to lead paint, there are many25 4 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 other sources of exposure from common2 items such as tap water in homes with3 pipes that contain lead solder, some4 newsprint, contaminated food, poorly made5 lead-containing crystal, fishing weights,6 toys and jewelry.7 Since July 2001, the Consumer8 Product Safety Commission has identified9 excessive amounts of lead in over 24810 different household products used for11 children. Most alarming is that the12 recalls involved millions of children's13 toys and jewelry items. Sometimes the14 product was painted with lead paint, but15 more often the lead was part of the16 material that was used to manufacture the17 item, usually as part of the plastic18 itself. The lead would transfer from the19 toy or jewelry to the child's hand or20 mouth and be ingested. In response to21 this problem, Congress passed the22 Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act23 in 2008, which strengthened the Consumer24 Product Safety Commission-required25 5 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 product testing and certification by the2 manufacturer and lowered the limits of3 lead allowed in products.4 The Philadelphia Health Code5 recognizes that lead is hazardous to6 children, but the Code was written at a7 time when few children's toys and jewelry8 were manufactured with plastics or9 contained lead in the material from which10 the toy or jewelry was made. The Code11 does not recognize that a toy that12 contains lead is hazardous. Only if the13 toy is painted or coated with lead paint14 is it considered a hazard. If the Health15 Department determines that a toy contains16 lead that poses a hazard to a child, we17 can only suggest that the toy be18 discarded or not be available to the19 child. The Department also lacks20 authority to prevent items that contain21 lead from being sold in the City. At22 this time, we can only report the item23 containing lead to the Consumer Product24 Safety Commission and wait for them to25 6 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 take action.2 The proposed changes to the3 Health Code would mirror the federal4 regulations and allow the Department to5 protect the health of children in6 Philadelphia.7 Thank you again for this8 opportunity to discuss this issue with9 the Committee. I'm happy to answer any10 questions you might have about the11 proposed legislation.12
Thank you13 very much.14 Are there any questions from15 members of the Committee?16 (No response.)17
One of the18 first bills I introduced back in 198819 when I came to Council was around the20 lead paint.21 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Thank22 you so much for doing so.23
Okay.24 There being no questions, would you like25 7 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 to move to your next bill?2 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Be happy3 to.4
Read the5 title of the next bill, please.6 Do you want a rules suspension7 on this bill, suspension of the rules on8 your bill you just testified about?9 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Yes.10
Bill No. 090261, an13 ordinance amending Title 6 of The14 Philadelphia Code, entitled "Health15 Code," to eliminate the requirement of16 semi-annual license renewal for mobile17 food vendors and to provide for18 protective gloves and head coverings as19 established in regulations of the Board20 of Health, all under certain terms and21 conditions.22
Good23 afternoon.24 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Good25 8 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 afternoon, Chairwoman Tasco, members of2 the Committee of Public Health and Human3 Services. I'm Donald Schwarz,4 Commissioner of the Department of Public5 Health. Thank you for this opportunity6 to testify about Bill 090261.7 In accordance with the Home8 Rule Charter and Title 6 of The9 Philadelphia Code, the Department of10 Public Health has responsibility for11 regulating the operation of food12 establishments within Philadelphia.13 The first part of Bill 09026114 would rescind the requirement of15 semi-annual inspections of mobile food16 vendors.17 In November 2006, the18 Department provided testimony to this19 Committee on the subject of a risk-based20 approach to inspections. Since January21 15, 2009, the Department has adopted new22 regulations that reflect a risk-based23 approach to inspection. This method24 evaluates and addresses the factors and25 9 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 lead to a more comprehensive inspection.2 A risk-based system also provides a3 systematic means of determining4 inspection frequency, which can lead to5 more efficient use of personnel and other6 resources, rather than a fixed number of7 annual inspections of all food8 establishments.9 The risk-based approach10 establishes an appropriate range of from11 one to four inspections annually for12 specific establishments or established13 classes, depending on the assigned risk14 category. Risk categories of all food15 establishments, including mobile food16 vendor operations, are based on the17 thorough evaluation of the entire18 food-handling operation and the potential19 for food-borne illness to occur as a20 result of specific handling practices.21 Essentially, each mobile vending22 operation is individually evaluated and23 the required frequency of inspection is24 determined. Because the level of risk25 10 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 determines the required frequency of2 inspections, mandating semi-annual3 inspections of mobile vendors is not4 necessary.5 The second part of the bill6 sets forth requirements for persons7 engaged in the preparation of food to8 wear protective gloves and suitable head9 coverings to protect the food from10 contamination. The issue of preventing11 contamination of food is an important12 part of the food protection program and,13 as such, has already been addressed in14 the regulations governing food15 establishments. These requirements are16 components not only of the food17 establishment inspection process, but18 also of required food handler education19 and certification training.20 Thank you for the opportunity21 to present testimony today. I'll now22 answer any questions that you may have.23
Thank you24 very much.25 11 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 Would you just please explain2 to me in layman's terms what you're doing3 here.4 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Okay.5
What6 presently exists and what we will go to.7 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: So8 presently we are asked to inspect all9 mobile food vendors twice annually. We10 know that there are some vendors who sell11 products or handle food stuffs and they12 should be inspected more often, because13 the risk to the public is significant and14 seasonal differences may make a15 difference to them.16 There are also vendors who17 handle materials that are packaged and18 unlikely to cause hazard to the public,19 and as a result, what this allows us to20 do is more efficiently deploy our21 resources and match the particular22 product and food that is prepared with23 the amount of inspection that will be24 performed. And this allows us with the25 12 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 hair and hand coverings to actually put2 into law what we already do as part of3 our inspection.4
Okay. So5 right now you are inspecting all mobile6 vendors twice a year no matter what --7 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Correct.8
-- or how9 they handle food?10 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Correct.11
So now12 you're going to do it on a risk-based13 basis. Okay.14 Other questions?15
Let me18 recognize Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller19 has joined us.20 Councilwoman Brown.21
Thank you22 very much.23 Good afternoon, Commissioner.24 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Good25 13 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 afternoon.2
Presuming3 this becomes law, I am a citizen and I4 know that it's law and I see a vendor who5 is in violation. Procedurally what6 should that citizen do?7 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: A8 citizen can and should always call our9 Food Management Unit. The Health10 Department is always open for reports.11 Should there be a problem with the food12 establishment, we go out, based on a13 complaint, immediately. We inspect. We14 assure that the standards have been met,15 and if not, we take action with the16 particular vendor, both a mobile vendor17 and an established other vendor,18 retailer, to make sure that the public19 safety is assured.20
Being21 honored.22 And so do the rules change for23 establishments that are not mobile?24 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: This is25 14 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 the current --2
As of this3 new measure.4 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: This is5 the current standard that this Council6 passed for non-mobile vendors.7
All right,8 then. Thank you for your testimony.9 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Thank10 you.11 COUNCILWOMAN TASCO:12 Dr. Schwarz, are you requesting a rules13 suspension for this bill also?14 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Yes,15 ma'am.16
Thank you.17 Let me note that Bill 090397 is18 being held at the request of the sponsor.19 Now the Clerk will read Bill20 No. 090383.21
An ordinance22 amending the Health Code, Title 6 of The23 Philadelphia Code, by amending Section24 6-102, entitled "Definitions" and by25 15 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 creating a new Section 6-309, entitled2 "Outdated Products" to prohibit the sale3 of expired non-prescription drugs, infant4 formula, baby food, milk, milk products5 and eggs, all under certain terms and6 conditions.7
Thank you8 very much.9 The Chair recognizes10 Councilwoman Sanchez.11
Thank12 you, Madam Chair. I wanted to remind my13 colleagues on this Committee, this14 legislation comes as a result of what has15 been a national campaign that has16 identified that within the corporate17 sector, we have certain chains that have18 been identified to maintain a practice of19 selling expired goods. This is even20 after attorney generals and other21 consumer advocates have come before some22 of these establishments and have called23 them on the practice of their continuous24 sell of expired goods. In this case25 16 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 we're talking about milk, we're talking2 about medicine, products that impact --3 can have a dangerous impact on children,4 women and families.5 We are here today to legislate6 and regulate in a very limited way the7 scope in terms of these products so that8 we can prevent a situation from occurring9 where some child gets sick from expired10 products that it consumes.11 We have been in discussions12 with the Administration, and we are13 willing to make some -- an amendment,14 some technical amendments, on the bill,15 although there is still one point of16 contention that I will speak to once17 we've had full testimony from the18 Administration and the advocates.19 So thank you.20
22 The Chair recognizes23 Dr. 1 afternoon, Chairwoman Tasco and members2 of the Committee on Public Health and3 Human Services. I'm Donald Schwarz,4 Deputy Mayor for Health and Opportunity5 and Commissioner of the Department of6 Public Health. 8 I want to start by9 acknowledging the amendments to this10 piece of legislation. My testimony was11 written taking into account some of them,12 but potentially not all of them. 1 The Nutter Administration2 strongly supports the intention of this3 bill. I want to reiterate that. 8 In accordance with the Home9 Rule Charter and Title 6 of The10 Philadelphia Code, the Department of11 Public Health currently has12 responsibility to ensure food safety and13 protect the public from food-borne14 illness. As part of this responsibility,15 the Department conducts regular16 inspections of all establishments that17 sell or distribute food to the public in18 Philadelphia and issues citations for any19 violations found. 1 requires immediate removal of the product2 from sale, destruction of the product and3 instructs the merchant to notify the4 manufacturer. 9 The regulation as written10 includes all non-prescription drugs which11 are required by the Food and Drug12 Administration to include an expiration13 date. According to the FDA, there are14 over 100,000 non-prescription or15 over-the-counter drug products marketed16 encompassing about 800 significant active17 ingredients. Almost all require an18 expiration date and would be included in19 this bill. 1 cream - and many more products. 5 If the Department of Public Health were6 to begin to inspect these products, we7 would need a substantial increase in the8 number of sanitarians employed in this9 activity, along with possible funding for10 training by the FDA. 12 We're in conversations with the13 FDA about the definition of items covered14 under the term "non-prescription drugs"15 and about what would be required to16 engage in this inspection activity. 1 of great and growing importance to the2 City's economic vitality that could3 impact their growth in currently4 underserved neighborhoods. 6 Thank you for the opportunity7 to provide testimony. 9
Thank you10 very much.11 Are there questions from12 members of the Committee?13 The Chair recognizes14 Councilwoman Sanchez.15
As I16 mentioned earlier, the Administration17 brought to our attention what they18 considered to be a potential abuse, and I19 want my colleagues to look at a piece20 that was distributed, A Guide to Outdated21 Products, if the folks could look at it.22 Can you give us an example of what you23 perceive would be an abuse, an example of24 an abuse of this?25 23 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: The2 concern would be, for instance, the way3 the bill is currently written and it's4 particularly, as I mentioned, the 30-day5 issue. So if a grocery store that is6 located in Eastern North Philadelphia,7 for instance, sells dandruff shampoo that8 has an expiration date and the dandruff9 shampoo is sold beyond the expiration10 date, it's clear that a consumer can show11 that at the register and receive remedy.12 If someone has an expired13 product at home, this would allow them to14 purchase the same item, bring it home and15 return with the expired product and a16 receipt and receive a new product. While17 we may perceive that as a minor expense,18 the concern is that for small businesses19 in particular in communities where it's20 been very difficult to get particular21 retailers to locate, this may be a22 disincentive for them to locate in those23 communities.24
Outside25 24 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 of the bodegas, most stores have bar2 codes and we're asking people with3 receipts. Wouldn't they be able to4 verify that through their bar codes?5 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: If6 stores have bar codes, you're absolutely7 correct, and that's the reason for8 conversation about this, and we believe9 that there has to be a way that we can10 protect both consumers and retailers in11 this. So we support the idea here, but12 we want to be sure that we don't provide13 a disincentive for retailers in14 underserved in particular communities and15 small businesses who don't have bar16 scanners.17
They18 have to return the product unopened and19 unused. So the notion that someone on a20 fixed income would buy two products to21 receive a discount of 50 percent on the22 second product is something that's hard23 for me to accept. I mean, for the most24 part, all the Rite Aids, all the CVS's,25 25 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 all of the folks, even the cousins who2 are not chain stores, Shop Rite, they all3 have bar codes. They have a way of4 tracking this.5 I mean, we've tried to maintain6 consistency with the FDA requirements in7 terms of 30 days. So it's difficult for8 me to -- I'm not saying that one or two9 people can't happen, but because of this,10 that we not -- it's a little bit11 difficult for me to accept.12 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: If the13 language was such that it was confined to14 larger retailers who have scanning15 devices, I think we would be reassured.16 That way, there is a way to verify that17 in fact the product brought back is the18 same product sold.19
If we20 just did large establishments?21 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Or22 establishments that have scanning23 devices. I'm not sure what the best24 language would be, but confining this,25 26 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 for instance -- excluding bodegas, for2 instance, that don't have scanning3 devices would make it, I think, more4 appealing for bodegas to locate in5 neighborhoods, because they wouldn't be6 disadvantaged.7
We don't8 have a problem with bodegas locating in9 neighborhoods. I have one around the10 corner.11 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: I can12 appreciate that, although we don't have13 the legislation.14
I can15 assure you.16 Again, I'm trying to get to17 which businesses we're trying to protect,18 and if you're trying to protect my bodega19 at the corner, they're not going20 anywhere.21 Okay. I don't know. Duane,22 did you want to add something to that?23
Yeah. Duane Bumb,24 Deputy Commerce Director.25 27 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 Just to sort of add on to what2 Dr. Schwarz has said, I think our concern3 here is sort of the potential for misuse.4 It's also the sort of loss of once the5 product leaves the store, the store has6 sort of lost control of the product.7
But8 they're bringing it back closed and9 sealed.10
So a hypothetical11 would be a customer who buys baby food,12 which in fact is absolutely a protected13 product, and buys lots of baby food and14 some of it has expired over time and the15 customer doesn't want to throw it away16 because -- and doesn't want to give it to17 a child and buys additional baby food and18 returns it. It will have the same bar19 code. It doesn't necessarily -- the bar20 code is the same for the product no21 matter what the store is. So the bar22 code reads the same whether it's sold at23 a supermarket or sold at a drugstore. So24 you're not guaranteeing it's returning it25 28 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 to the same sort of vendor. So, in2 fact -- or even if it was -- you're3 not -- we can't confirm because we've4 lost sort of control of the line of5 ownership or control of the product,6 which the store was or that that product7 with certainty is the exact same product8 and not a substitute product.9 It was where -- I think our10 sort of suggestion here was because you11 certainly can under this legislation come12 up to the counter, sort of say, I see13 this product is expired, and the consumer14 gets the discount because of that, it15 very much gives immediate sort of16 feedback to the store that it's got an17 expired product and actually incentivizes18 the store to take the product off. I19 think the suggestion that we had here,20 this discussion about could you limit21 this to larger stores, it might be done22 in the same way, that there's a section23 in the ordinance that talks about a24 reporting requirement which is limited25 29 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 only to larger establishments. And so I2 guess there's --3
But4 current law allows people to go back and5 get a refund. I mean, people do that6 now.7 I have not -- I worked very8 closely with the Bodega Association, with9 all the other merchants. I have not10 gotten one person opposing this. We've11 been very public in this. It was all in12 the Spanish media. I got not one call13 where someone saying to me, Hey, Maria,14 this is going to hurt me. Not one.15 So I'm trying to get at who16 you're trying to protect, because those17 constituencies, who are very close to me,18 not one has complained. So you're asking19 me to put a regulation where that20 constituency hasn't said it's an issue.21 So, I mean, unless they've called you22 guys and said otherwise --23
No. They haven't24 called me at least, and this has more to25 30 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 do with the fact that we in fact try to2 encourage additional fresh food products3 within underserved neighborhoods, which4 is not an easy thing to do, and we want5 to be mindful that we don't want to sort6 of send the message that we're being7 somehow punitive or --8
But the9 scope of this particular bill and the10 items, we're not regulating everything.11 We're regulating very --12
Well, I think that13 that's -- I agree with that on the food14 products as well. They're very clearly15 defined. We know what those food16 products are. They are consistent with17 the federal and state regulations on18 those products.19 I think sort of there's also a20 little bit of definitional concern on21 the, as the testimony indicated, on those22 non-prescription products, because in23 fact the scope of those is much larger24 than we may have originally thought when25 31 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 you can sort of think about shampoo2 products, for example, which are captured3 by that and yet probably don't sort of4 have the same level of health concern5 that we are in fact wanting to focus this6 legislation on.7
I don't8 have any further questions.9 COUNCILWOMAN TASCO:10 Councilwoman Brown.11
Good12 afternoon, gentlemen.13 So to the issues that you've14 raised, have you had an opportunity to15 share with the sponsor of the bill16 alternative language that will ultimately17 serve to improve the bill, since we're18 hearing from you that you agree with the19 spirit of the bill?20 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: We've21 been in, I think, active and productive22 discussion with the Councilwoman's office23 about this, yes.24
And to25 32 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 your point regarding non-food products,2 is that how you described them?3 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: The4 specific point --5 COUNCILWOMAN SANCHEZ:6 Non-prescription.7
Oh,8 non-prescription products.9 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: It's10 non-prescription drugs, and the issue11 there is, the Food and Drug12 Administration has a definition for that13 specific term, non-prescription drugs,14 and it's quite extensive.15 Non-prescription drugs are classed into16 two groups, if you will. There are17 shampoos and lip balms and Tylenol and18 other things that have an expiration19 date, and there are others that have20 what's a "best used by" date, and the21 difference --22
The bill23 is consistent with FDA and everything.24 The only point where we're in a25 33 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 disagreement is whether people have the2 ability to ask for the refund if they3 take the product home. That is the only4 difference. Everything -- the language5 is consistent with FDA, and all the other6 technical amendments that the7 Administration requested, we incorporated8 in an amendment that I will do. The only9 part is whether someone can do that once10 they get home. That's the only11 difference that we're having.12
So if they13 bring it back unopened with a receipt --14
-- and16 sealed, then I'm at a loss to understand17 the wrinkle.18 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: The best19 I can do is give an example. So if I20 purchase milk and I purchase two21 containers of milk and I take them both22 home and today is June the 9th and they23 expire on June the 21st, between today24 and June the 21st I consume one of the25 34 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 cartons of milk and I still have another2 carton of milk. On June the 22nd, I3 return it to the store with my receipt4 from having purchased a new carton of5 milk. So on June the 22nd, I purchase a6 new carton of milk. I take it home. I7 take my old carton of milk. I go back to8 the store. I hand in my receipt from9 June 21st and I say, I have this carton10 of milk that's expired.11 So I don't know because I'm12 not -- and I don't think we are -- small13 business owners. We don't know whether14 that will be perceived as a disincentive15 to locate in communities going forward or16 not. We agree with the Councilwoman,17 we've not heard pushback from that18 community. I don't know how well aware19 they are of this.20
Okay. All21 right, then. Thank you for your22 testimony.23
The Chair24 recognizes Councilwoman Miller.25 35 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1
Thank2 you.3 Good afternoon.4 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Good5 afternoon.6
I just7 want to ask a couple questions regarding8 the non-prescription drugs. The reason9 I'm asking, I was talking to my physician10 about a prescription drug that I had that11 had an expiration date on it, and I was12 concerned because I thought I'd probably13 need a new one, and he said, Well, you14 know, this has a shelf life of one year15 past that expiration date. So how does16 that fit in to these non-prescription17 drugs?18 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ:19 Non-prescription drugs have the same20 standards under the FDA.21
So22 something that might have an expiration23 date of June 8th, 2009 actually is good24 for maybe another year or so, year or two25 36 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 actually, because I think the medication2 that I have at home is good up to two3 years after. So how would all of that be4 taken into consideration in terms of5 shelf life on non-prescription drugs?6 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Shelf7 life is not part of this legislation. So8 it's based on the expiration date.9
But do11 they have a right to sell it past the12 expiration date if there's a shelf life?13 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: They14 should not sell it past that date.15
Because16 of the legislation?17 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Because18 of federal and state law as well.19
So the20 federal law says you can't sell past the21 prescription date even though the shelf22 life is longer?23 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Correct.24
And the25 37 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 medication is still good.2 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Correct.3
I4 actually have some Tylenol in my office.5 I took it. It worked. Even though after6 that I did throw it away and purchased7 some new.8 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: The9 determination of the date is in part10 based on knowing that people will take11 medication home and it will expire while12 it's at home and there's a margin of13 safety there in case someone completes a14 bottle, for instance, after the15 expiration date. That doesn't mean that16 we in public health or that we in17 government endorse people doing that, nor18 do we allow retailers to sell it past the19 date.20
I think21 that this actually needs like a whole22 public education, because I'm sitting23 here and quite surprised over things like24 lip balm and some of the other items that25 38 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 you named. And I guess the shampoo, I2 think I heard you say dandruff shampoo?3 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ:4 Medicated.5
So people6 probably need to know more about this.7 Thank you.8 Thank you, Madam Chair.9
Thank you,12 Madam Chair.13 Good afternoon.14 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Good15 afternoon.16
I have a17 series of questions actually for both18 witnesses, starting with, in simple19 terms, what is the state and federal law20 on expired products?21 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: I'm22 going to bring a colleague.23 (Witness approached witness24 table.)25 39 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: We have2 the law and CFR numbers and so forth, but3 essentially federal law says that you may4 not sell an expired product past the5 expiration date. So it's clear.6
So it's7 against the law to sell the product past8 the expiration date?9 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Federal10 law. Excuse me, for non-prescription11 drugs.12
Okay. So13 what happens with expired products?14 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Under15 current law, a consumer either returns it16 to the store and either receives a new17 product or a refund, whatever they18 determine, or --19
My --20 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: -- calls21 the state or federal government.22
I'm not23 clear what the actual law is in terms of24 what happens with expired products.25 40 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: The law2 states that the seller, the retailer, is3 to return the product to the4 manufacturer. It doesn't specifically5 give remedy to the consumer.6
And what7 happens when the seller returns the8 product to the manufacturer?9 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: It's10 destroyed by the manufacturer.11
So they make12 no money off the product?13 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: They14 make no money off the product; is that15 what you said? The air conditioner is16 right above us.17
So the18 seller makes no money off of the product?19 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: That's20 correct.21
So under22 your scam scenario, the expired product23 that would go back to the seller would24 then go to the manufacturer, and the25 41 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 seller --2 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Just for3 the distinction, the example I gave4 related to a food stuff as opposed to a5 non-prescription drug. So for food6 stuffs, the regs are very different. For7 a non-prescription drug, if I had given8 the example of a non-prescription drug,9 yes, it would go back and all that's on10 the shelf should go back too, anything in11 the storeroom --12
So the13 seller makes no money off of it?14 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: That's15 correct.16
But under17 this legislation, the seller, if the law18 was implemented, would be getting new19 business?20 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Would21 be?22
Getting new23 business that's actually bringing a24 customer to the store to buy a product as25 42 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 they're returning a product that the2 seller can't make money off of anyway?3 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: I'm not4 sure I'm understanding. Let me just say5 that in the current situation, federal6 law addresses the removal of, if you7 will, the public safety concern, the8 removal of the product and returned to9 the manufacturer.10
Because it's11 illegal to make money off of that product12 after it's expired?13 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Correct,14 to sell it.15
Okay. So if16 the product is actually sold -- if the17 product was actually not sold, it's18 illegal to make money off of it. If the19 product is sold --20 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: There21 isn't remedy, as far as I know, in22 federal law. What the individual23 retailer does is up to that retailer. So24 the retailer may give a new -- you bring25 43 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 back an expired product. I give you a2 new product. I take the expired product3 and I send it back. They may give a4 refund. It depends on the retailer.5
So6 essentially what I'm saying is that if7 the product is actually expired, the8 seller is not entitled to make money off9 of it.10 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: That's11 correct.12
But under13 this legislation, what happens?14 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Under15 this legislation, it's similar, but it --16
Under this17 legislation, the seller has already made18 money off of a product that would19 otherwise be expired. And this is why I20 asked for both witnesses to testify,21 because it's not --22 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: I see23 your point.24
It is not25 44 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 logical to assume that all of the2 inventory is being exhausted. And it3 makes no sense under the scam scenario4 that people are going to be hording5 products, waiting for them to expire.6 There could be an assumption that these7 products were either already expired or8 were going to expire on the shelves, and9 that seller has no right to make any10 money off of that product.11 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: I don't12 believe -- and we can confirm -- that13 federal regulation at the moment actually14 talks about making money or not making15 money. It talks about the return of a16 product --17
They can't18 sell it, which means they can't --19 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: They're20 not supposed to sell it, that's correct.21
It's illegal22 to sell it.23 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Yes.24 What the legislation is attempting to do25 45 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 is to say if a product that's expired is2 sold, we in Philadelphia should3 determine, in a sense, what the procedure4 should be and what the consumer's right5 is. So the difference between the two is6 the federal government talks about the7 process and procedure in terms of the8 retailer and the distributor. This --9
Dr. Schwarz,10 whether it uses this specific language or11 not, the federal reg, as you described12 it, says that that seller is not entitled13 to make money off of that product. That14 seller must send that expired product15 back to the manufacturer and will not16 make money off of it.17 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: That is18 correct.19
So you agree20 then under federal law the seller is not21 supposed to make money off of an expired22 product.23 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Yes.24
So what is25 46 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 wrong with providing a local remedy?2 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: I'm not3 arguing or complaining, if you will,4 about the issue of remedy. I think it's5 the specific language and the nature of6 the remedy, what the procedure is for it,7 that is the concern that we're raising,8 not that there should be remedy. As we9 say, we are in spirit in agreement.10
What I'm11 suggesting is that to some extent under12 the majority of cases -- I'm not sure we13 have any numbers on this on either side14 of this debate, but it has to be assumed15 that in the majority of cases, the seller16 has made money off of an expired product17 that it's not entitled to make money off18 of, and the remedy provided in this19 situation is that they actually get new20 business from having done that by the21 buyer bringing the product back and22 actually giving them new business for23 business they weren't entitled to to24 begin with for selling expired products.25 47 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: I think2 I understand your point, and I think I3 agree with it. What this does, if I hear4 you correctly, is, it creates clear5 guidelines for the interaction between6 the buyer and the seller, which provides7 an incentive for the buyer to come back8 to the retailer.9
That's10 exactly how I would see it. It actually11 provides an incentive for the buyer to go12 back to an establishment where a seller13 has already made money off of a product14 it's not entitled to make money off of.15 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: And I16 believe we would agree that establishing17 those rules is a good thing. So I don't18 think there's any argument there. It's19 just the nature of the --20
Not just a21 good thing, but a necessary thing. Even22 when you look at what we talk about in23 terms of incentives for neighborhood24 economic development, for supporting25 48 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 small businesses, it is actually mending2 a relationship there where a relationship3 could be broken, because someone has made4 money off of a product they weren't5 entitled to make money off of.6 And to further go to that7 point, Mr. Bumb, you said in your8 testimony that part of the reason why the9 Administration has concerns is because of10 its support of small businesses within11 neighborhoods and trying to attract food12 and retail establishments within13 neighborhoods. I can say, as I think the14 sponsor has stated already, there are not15 a lack of establishments. There are a16 lack of quality establishments. And even17 from my neighborhood business work that18 I've done, we did surveys, we can stand19 in front of a supermarket and ask20 neighborhood consumers what they would21 like to see attracted to the22 neighborhood, and they would say a23 supermarket. And the reason for that,24 because it wasn't selling quality25 49 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 products.2 So the issue here in terms of3 quality products in neighborhoods and how4 we ensure it and how we build up5 neighborhood commerce by ensuring that6 people will shop in neighborhoods because7 they know they will receive quality8 products, I think is a whole other angle9 that the Administration needs to look at.10 Thank you, Madam Chair.11
The Chair12 recognizes -- that's it. All right.13 Second panel: Karen Bojar, Karen Collins14 and Liana Rodriguez.15 (Witnesses approached witness16 table.)17
Are you18 leaving?19 COMMISSIONER SCHWARZ: Yes.20 What's your pleasure?21
That's22 fine. Okay. Thank you.23 Good afternoon. Would you24 state your name for the record, please.25 50 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1
Good afternoon.9 My name is Karen Collins and I was born10 and raised in --11
Pull the12 mike to you, please, so we can hear you.13 Thank you.14
My name is Karen15 Collins. I was born and raised in the16 City of Philadelphia. I'm a proud17 volunteer with the Women's Community18 Revitalization Project, or WCRP. WCRP is19 a grassroots community development20 corporation committed to social and21 economic equality for low-income women22 and their families. We build low-income23 housing for people who need it and24 organize the community to improve quality25 51 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 of life.2 My own experience with3 homelessness led me to get involved with4 WCRP, but one of the reasons I stay5 involved is because of WCRP's commitment6 to the Eastern North Philadelphia7 community where it has worked for more8 than 20 years.9 A commitment to a neighborhood10 means many things. It means the people11 who live there have decent and affordable12 housing, spaces to learn and play, and13 access to safe, healthy products. That14 is why I'm here today.15 Earlier this year it came to my16 attention that CVS was selling expired17 products. I saw a news segment showing18 many items that were expired, including19 infant formula and over-the-counter20 medicines still sitting on shelves21 available for purchase. As the mother of22 two young children, I was upset. I spend23 my hard-earned dollars there and I expect24 products that are not outdated. I can't25 52 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 tell you how many times I have gone to2 the nearby store to pick up Benadryl for3 my daughter's runny nose or Robitussin4 for my son's cough. As someone who has5 had to be creative on a fixed income,6 also known as low income, I have relied7 on these kinds of stores to feed my kids,8 calm their upset stomachs and cure my own9 headache.10 I have to tell you, though,11 even though I was appalled when I learned12 that this big chain was selling expired13 products, I was not surprised. It had14 been my experience that corporations15 often have to be private to become16 responsible corporate citizens, the kind17 of businesses that care about the people18 who live in the neighborhoods where they19 open up shop.20 When this bill gets voted out21 of Committee and passed by the full City22 Council, CVS and other large companies23 will have a legal obligation to stop24 selling expired products. Since we can't25 53 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 count on companies like CVS to regulate2 themselves, this law will put the City of3 Philadelphia in a position to hold these4 companies accountable.5 On behalf of WCRP, I want to6 thank Councilwoman Sanchez as well as7 Councilwoman Reynolds Brown and8 Councilman Greenlee and their leadership9 on this issue. Thank you for working to10 stop the sale of expired goods in11 Philadelphia.12 Thank you again.13 (Applause.)14
My name is Karen15 Bojar. I am the President of the16 Philadelphia Chapter for the National17 Organization for Women.18 It's a parent's worst19 nightmare. Your child has a fever or20 cough and the medicine you've given her21 is not helping. Or another nightmare,22 you think you're giving your child what23 she needs when you give her a bottle of24 formula, but there isn't enough nutrition25 54 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 in the bottle to help her grow strong.2 Both those bad dreams could3 come true if the medicine or the formula4 is passed its expiration date. And if5 you bought the product at a CVS pharmacy,6 there is a chance it was already expired7 when you bought it.8 CVS, the largest drugstore9 chain in the country, has a long reckless10 history of selling expired products.11 Other people here will give you details12 on that record today. Suffice it to say13 that the history is enough to make it14 clear it is time to pass the bill we are15 discussing today. It is time to make it16 illegal to sell expired products in our17 city.18 The products pose significant19 threat to our children and families, and20 the members of the Philadelphia Chapter21 of the National Organization for Women22 are outraged by CVS's behavior. Our23 national organization has also gotten24 involved in this issue, and some of our25 55 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 members will be going to Washington later2 this week to testify.3 Far from resolving the issue,4 CVS has not even apologized to its5 customers for these recurring problems.6 CVS has spent millions of dollars on ads7 to create the image that CVS supports8 women as caregivers. They use the slogan9 "CVS, for all the ways you care." But10 women don't want to expose their children11 or themselves or anyone we care about to12 the risk of expired products.13 Just last night at our14 Philadelphia NOW chapter meeting, one of15 our members, Dee Johnson, reported that16 recently she almost bought a container of17 expired milk at a CVS store. Because our18 chapter has been involved in this19 campaign, Dee thought to look at the20 expiration date. The milk had expired a21 week ago.22 Checking the date is not23 something Dee would normally have done.24 Most of us don't. Most of us assume a25 56 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 reputable store will not sell expired2 milk, of all things.3 Clearly, we cannot trust4 companies like CVS to act responsibly,5 and the members of the Philadelphia6 Chapter of the National Organization for7 Women think it is time for the City of8 Philadelphia to have the enforcement9 powers it needs to protect Philadelphians10 from the potential dangers posed by11 expired medications and infant formula,12 and we thank Councilpersons Maria13 Quinones-Sanchez, Blondell Reynolds Brown14 and Bill Greenlee for taking the lead on15 this issue, and we thank the rest of you16 for coming today to hear our testimony.17 Thank you.18
Next22 witness, please, would you identify23 yourself for the record.24
Sure. 1 is Liana Rodriguez. Good afternoon and2 thank you for giving me the opportunity3 to testify in support of this bill,4 090383. As I stated, my name is Liana5 Rodriguez. I'm the maternal, infant and6 child healthcare manager at Congreso de7 Latinos Unidos. I currently supervise8 three programs providing services to9 families in our community. 1 majority of the City's Latino population2 resides. 6 Founded in 1977 as a grassroots7 organization providing health services to8 the region's Puerto Rican community,9 Congreso has responded to the community's10 changing demographics and evolving needs11 for more than 30 years by growing into a12 multi-faceted comprehensive provider of13 human services. Congreso's mission is to14 strengthen Latino communities through15 social, economic, education and health16 services, leadership development and17 advocacy. 9 deaths, 1,000 live births. 21 Therefore, they rely on over-the-counter22 medication that sometimes is sold already23 expired. 1 After the expiration date on baby2 formula, some vitamin levels decrease and3 change in physical properties, such as4 discoloration and separation of fat may5 occur. 9 At Congreso's own Un Buen10 Comienzo program, we already encounter11 various health-related issues among12 newborns. We do not need to have13 additional hazards in our community. 1 Parents often do not know that2 food items are expired until they have to3 take one of their children to the4 emergency room. We have had one specific5 family that bought an expired baby food6 item without knowing. 10 We need more regulation for our11 government regarding this problem so that12 we can avoid further health issues in our13 community. 15 These items should not be sold at a16 lesser price. )21
Thank you22 all very much.23 Are there questions for the24 panel?25 62 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 (No response.)2
Thank you3 all for taking time to come down to4 support this legislation. Nice to see5 you again.6
The third8 panel, we have Lance Haver, Mayor's9 Office of Consumer Affairs, and Joanna10 Bouldin, CureCVS.11 (Witnesses approached witness12 table.)13
Good14 afternoon. Would you state your name for15 the record.16
16 The presence of expired17 over-the-counter products, including18 medicine and infant formula on store19 shelves in Philadelphia, is a real20 problem. 3 CVS, the retail drugstore4 giant, is evidence that this problem5 exists and is a perfect example of why we6 really do need this legislation. They're7 a giant company. They make tons of8 money. 10 CureCVS, just to give you a11 little bit of context for the research12 that we've done and for some of the13 displays here, CureCVS is an initiative14 by Change to Win and other organizations15 working to reform CVS, the country's16 leading provider of prescription drugs17 and the largest drugstore chain in the18 country. 1 numerous other organizations, we're2 working to ensure that CVS provides equal3 access across all communities and all4 income levels to its stores and services,5 but also to ensure that it provides6 quality products to its consumers. 12 Over the last year, we surveyed13 CVS stores all around the country and14 almost 200 stores here in the15 Philadelphia area, and what we found in16 store after store was very disturbing:17 Expired infant formula, expired eggs,18 expired milk, other expired19 over-the-counter medicines. 1 that CureCVS has found expired products2 at CVS stores in 21 cities around the3 country, from Boston to Miami, from New4 York to Atlanta and from Houston to Los5 Angeles. 7 Here in Philadelphia since the8 beginning of last year, we have found9 expired goods at 22 CVS stores within the10 City limits, and that's over half of11 their stores here. And they weren't just12 in one part of the City. 16 But it's really not. We found them in17 South Philly, in Mount Airy, in West18 Philly, in the Northeast and here in CVS19 stores right near City Hall. We have20 found them in stores in eight of the ten21 Council districts. 1 stores in Councilmember2 Quinones-Sanchez's district. 6 On the table right there,7 you'll see other expired products that we8 purchased in Philadelphia between January9 of last year and up to last week. 11 One of the things that has been12 particularly shocking I think is to not13 just see the amount of products, the14 number of products that you'll find15 expired, but also how expired. I mean,16 we found stuff that was over two years17 old. 18 And, you know, of course, maybe there's a19 little bit of leeway with your expiration20 date, but no one should be selling21 products that are two years old. 1 widespread, though, widespread across the2 country, widespread across the City, but3 it's also quite persistent. 10 As far back as 2003, the Attorney General11 of New York that caught CVS selling12 expired medications in New York City and13 the suburbs, and CVS paid a penalty and14 signed a binding agreement. "2 And we should note that Mr. 19 Here in Philadelphia we've made20 repeated attempts to call the company's21 attention to this problem. 1 on CVS to clean up its act. In December2 of '08, we released a report which found3 expired products for sale at CVS stores4 across the country. Just a month later,5 in January, Fox 29 reporter Joyce Evans6 took a crew to five CVS stores and found7 expired goods at three of them. Then8 again in March, she went back, found them9 in more CVS stores. And the City10 Administration here in Philadelphia,11 responding to concerned community12 members, has taken the issue very13 seriously and has tried to take action to14 stop CVS from selling expired products,15 and Mr. Haver will talk about those16 steps. But City law currently does not17 ban stores from selling expired products18 and state consumer protection law may,19 and Mr. Haver called on Attorney General20 Corbett to follow the example of its21 colleagues in California and New York,22 but nothing has happened. )8
Good afternoon. My9 name is Lance Haver. 17 I'd like to begin my testimony18 by reading into the record CVS's written19 information regarding baby formula and20 over-the-counter medicines. com, CVS writes under the22 heading, "Which formula should I feed my23 baby," quote, "Check for a date on the24 formula package. "2 Under the heading "Safe3 medication storage at home," CVS states,4 quote, "Clean out the clutter. At least5 once a year you should check the labels6 on all of your medications. Medications7 that are past their expiration date, that8 have changed in color, smell, texture, or9 medicines you are no longer taking should10 be disposed of properly. "13 CVS itself, along with14 healthcare professionals and consumer15 advocates, all agree consumers should not16 use expired products. Outdated products17 are often inedible, always unreliable and18 at times may pose a health risk to the19 person using it. To sell an expired20 out-of-date product as if it were fresh21 constitutes consumer fraud, and yet these22 products can be found in stores across23 Philadelphia. 5 Consumers in other cities and other6 states face similar difficulties. 8 Attorney generals in other states, as9 you've just heard, have taken actions to10 protect their citizens. 13 As a result, the people of14 Philadelphia face a unique problem. We15 have an attorney general who does not see16 a problem and existing laws that do not17 allow the City to act. 1 say the bill is unnecessary, that stores2 attempt to clear out their shelves of3 out-of-date products and expired4 products. 15 The bill requires no action on16 the part of any store other than the17 posting of a sign unless expired products18 are sold on its shelf. 7 I know that many stores offer a8 refund to consumers who can prove they9 have bought an expired product. 11 Even assuming most people save and file12 their register receipts, which would be13 an erroneous assumption, few consumers14 have the time and money to make a return15 trip to the store. Such programs are16 akin to mail-in rebates. The people who17 study these know that most people don't18 file for the rebate. I believe the19 people who say a return policy is20 sufficient know for most people it is not21 cost effective to return an item. 1 I urge Council to pass this2 bill. I would like to go on record as3 saying I can certainly support the4 amended version, provided that there's a5 year point which the Health Department6 comes back and says how successful it's7 been or if it's failed and we have to8 take further actions. 19
Thank you20 very much. I see here you have sent a21 letter to the state attorney general, and22 what has been his response?23
Well, they asked if24 we had specific items to show them, and I25 77 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 responded that we did and I offered to2 bring them to their office, and they3 declined for me to come.4
Do they5 have an investigative arm of their6 department that is supposed to look at7 issues like this and do they work with8 the Health Department, the state Health9 Department?10
They certainly can11 look at items like this. They've chosen12 not to.13 In many ways the brilliance of14 this bill protects consumers by giving15 consumers immediate refunds if they find16 expired products. Attorney generals17 often file suit, but whatever they18 collect doesn't go back to the consumers.19 It goes to the attorney general's office,20 which then uses it for something else.21 What I consider the importance and the22 brilliance of this bill is, consumers23 become the watchdogs and the people who24 enforce the law rather than being a25 78 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 department of government that may be2 overworked, it may be understaffed. In3 this way, consumers can go through the4 stores, make sure the product is current,5 and if it's not, they'll actually be6 rewarded for their time.7
Ms.8 Bouldin, you talked about that you did9 scout out a couple of Rite Aids. What10 about Walgreens, Eckerds and maybe some11 Dollar Stores?12
Just to clarify13 my earlier testimony, the research that14 was done into Rite Aid stores was done by15 the New York Attorney General. I have16 not done research into Rite Aid. We've17 been looking into CVS around the issue of18 expired products, but also regarding a19 range of other issues, such as where20 they're locating their stores.21
Such as?24 I didn't understand what you said.25 79 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1
We've been2 looking not only at the extent of the3 expired products, but also investigating4 other elements of the quality of the5 store for CVS. We've looked specifically6 at CVS because they are the industry7 leader. They're the largest chain8 drugstore in the country, and so we've9 been looking specifically at them because10 we're trying to call on them to in fact11 be a leader.12
So you13 haven't really focused in on other14 establishments like CVS?15
Madam Chairwoman,18 what we found out was somewhat surprising19 to me, which is the City doesn't believe20 it has the authority without this bill to21 do anything about any expired product22 sold in any store. And that's the23 difficulty we face. I asked the24 Solicitor, the City Solicitor, if there's25 80 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 something we could do so that consumers2 were guaranteed buying products that were3 usable, and the Solicitor's position was4 unfortunately there is no existing law5 that would allow the City to act to6 protect consumers. So in many ways, the7 issue wasn't what other stores are doing.8 The issue became clear what can we do9 about it, and that's why we went in this10 direction.11
What about12 the Charter that gives the Health13 Department the charge to protect the14 health and welfare of its citizens?15
Well, I could16 disagree all I wanted with the Solicitor,17 but that would be wasting your time and18 mine. I can only tell you what the19 Solicitor told me, which is unfortunately20 the existing law is insufficient, and21 that's why this bill is so important.22
The City23 Solicitor is young, too.24 Ms. Bouldin, who stamps the25 81 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 expiration date on a product when it goes2 to a CVS? Let's talk about CVS.3
That's a good4 question. Could I call someone else who5 is more qualified to testify about this?6
Good afternoon,10 Madam Chairman and members of the11 Committee. My name is Christopher12 Seymour, and I'm the lead researcher with13 the Change to Win drugstore campaign.14 And in answer to your specific question,15 the expiration dates on over-the-counter16 medications and other products are17 stamped by the manufacturers of those18 products.19
And so who20 puts the products on the shelves in the21 stores? Are they the vendor? Sometimes22 you see a vendor in an establishment23 placing their products on the shelf.24
Madam Chairman,25 82 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 the answer to that varies. As you2 notice, there are certain products that3 are called direct delivery products,4 which are shelved by the vendor. Those5 are typically your dairy products, sodas,6 chips and things like that. The7 over-the-counter medications and other8 products are typically stocked by the9 staff of the store in question.10
Now, if a11 vendor stocks the shelves, are they12 responsible for taking the expired13 products off the shelves?14
I can't say that15 I know specifically the answer to that16 question. I would say that if a product17 is on the shelves in a store that you18 own, it would behoove you to make sure19 that you're not offering it for sale if20 it's expired.21
Thank you,25 83 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 Madam Chair. I was just having an2 off-camera discussion with the sponsor of3 the bill, and I see no problem in4 supporting this bill. I think there's no5 excuse that anyone could have, whatever6 size establishment you have, for selling7 something that's expired. I mean, if I8 choose to take a chance with my milk9 carton in my refrigerator a day or so10 after it expires, that's up to me. A11 smell test is usually enough to tell me12 whether I'm in danger or not, but that's13 my decision to make and not the store's14 decision to sell it.15 Has there been any testimony16 from the Administration as to how we17 would notify -- I mean, obviously CVS,18 Rite Aid, Walgreens are large enough to19 promulgate this information to all of20 their different stores. Is there a21 mechanism that has been envisioned in22 sending the corner grocery store, the23 meat market as to what the law will be24 and how we can notify them of that? It's25 84 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 either at their health license renewal or2 is there some process we can mail to3 them?4 Maybe, Lance, you have an idea5 on how to do that.6
I would hope that7 we would do a mailing when we do the8 business privilege tax license renewals9 and just make everyone aware, and we10 would try and do as much of a public11 campaign as possible.12 I would humbly say that it13 continues to be a problem for us for a14 number of different issues. We don't do15 a good job of telling the towing16 companies what the current law is. We17 don't always do a good job of telling18 used car dealers what the lemon law is,19 and I agree with you that's a20 frustration. I would hope that we could21 learn from each experience to do better22 the next time.23
I would24 suspect that once this bill passes, the25 85 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 larger chains will notify their employees2 and their managers and produce the signs3 and all the other things. One of the4 things I'd like to concentrate on is in5 the neighborhoods where you may have a6 mom-and-pop store that is either aware of7 it or not aware of it, that we don't wind8 up with confrontations with some of the9 people who come back and say, You owe10 me -- it's 50 percent discount now. I11 can see some of the groceries in my12 neighborhood like having a bit of a rowel13 about it. I would think it would14 probably be easier with the larger15 stores, because once this is over,16 they'll hopefully comply, but I want to17 make sure that we kind of get into the18 neighborhood level, too.19
Yeah. I20 think there's two things we can do. We21 can do folks with business privilege22 licenses and we can do folks who are food23 establishments. I mean, I think we can,24 the City, can do a campaign on their25 86 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 business renewal or the food2 establishments, do a mailing informing3 them in the new fiscal year. But we4 would have to work with the5 Administration to make sure the6 information gets out.7
Councilman, I think10 your point is well taken, and, again, I11 think we make that mistake on a regular12 basis. When we change rules and13 regulations, we don't do a good job of14 telling the people whose rules and15 regulations are changed what's happening.16
And this17 should be self-evident, but apparently18 it's not, especially when it comes to the19 products that are listed in the bill. I20 mean, if non-consuming or non-consumable21 products have issues relative to22 expiration, that's one thing, but baby23 formula and medicine and milk, eggs are a24 different story.25 87 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 So thank you.2
I notice3 that this bill says chain stores. What4 about the mom-and-pop stores that sell5 milk and eggs, are they covered?6
You might be better7 off asking the person who drafted the8 bill. My understanding in reading of it9 is yes, that that is the intent and that10 is in fact what the law will be. But,11 again, I would certainly bow to greater12 wisdom. I think some of the authors are13 in the room.14
Thank you20 very much for your testimony. We21 appreciate it very much.22 Is there anyone else here to23 testify on this bill?24 (No response.)25 88 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1
I just4 want to, before Joanne and Lance Haver5 left the table, thank them for all their6 work related to the research and the data7 and the organizing that went into this8 initiative and for bringing it to our9 attention. It's been a pleasure working10 with you, and my staff, Justin and Dan.11 Thank you.12
We're now16 going to adjourn the meeting and go17 into -- the public hearing and go into18 the meeting.19 The Chair recognizes20 Councilwoman Sanchez for an amendment to21 the bill.22
Thank23 you, Madam Chair. I have an amendment to24 Bill 090383. Some of the -- it was25 89 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 circulated. Some of these amendments are2 in response to some recommendations by3 the Administration; some of them are4 technical in nature. So I move that the5 amendment for Bill 090383 be adopted.6 (Duly seconded.)7
It has8 been moved and seconded that the9 amendment to Bill 090383 be adopted.10 All in favor?11 (Aye.)12
There16 being none, the amendment is passed.17 The Chair recognizes18 Councilwoman Sanchez to move Bill 09038319 out of Committee.20
Thank21 you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill22 090383 be moved out of Committee and for23 the rules of Council to be suspended to24 allow first hearing at our next public25 90 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 session, as amended.2 (Duly seconded.)3
It has4 been moved and seconded that Bill 090383,5 as amended, be reported out of Committee6 with a favorable recommendation and that7 the rules of Council be suspended so that8 this bill will be heard at Council's next9 session.10 (Applause.)11
We haven't12 voted yet.13 All in favor will say aye.14 (Aye.)15
There19 being none, this bill will be reported20 out of Committee.21 Now you may applaud.22 (Applause.)23
The Chair24 recognizes Councilwoman Miller for a25 91 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 report on Bill 090260.2
Thank3 you, Madam Chair. I move that Bill No.4 090260 be reported out of this Committee5 with a favorable recommendation and6 further move that the rules of Council be7 suspended so as to permit first reading8 at our next session.9 (Duly seconded.)10
It has11 been moved and seconded that Bill 09026012 be reported out of Committee with a13 favorable recommendation and a request14 that the rules of Council be suspended so15 this bill will be heard at Council's next16 session.17 All in favor will say aye.18 (Aye.)19
There23 being none, this bill is passed.24 The Chair recognizes25 92 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 Councilwoman Blondell Reynolds Brown for2 Bill 090261.3
Certainly,4 Madam Chair. I move that Bill No. 0902615 be reported out of Committee with a6 favorable recommendation and further move7 that the rules of Council be suspended so8 as to permit first reading at the next9 scheduled session.10 (Duly seconded.)11
It has12 been moved and seconded that Bill 09026113 be reported out of Committee with a14 favorable recommendation and a request15 made that the rules of Council be16 suspended so this bill can be heard at17 Council's next session.18 All in favor will say aye.19 (Aye.)20
There24 being none, this bill is passed.25 93 6/9/09 - PUBLIC HEALTH - BILL 090260, etc.1 There being no further business2 before this Committee, we will adjourn3 this Committee. Thank you.4 (Committee on Public Health and5 Human Services concluded at 2:45 p.m.)6 - - -7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 94 1 CERTIFICATE2 I HEREBY CERTIFY that the3 proceedings, evidence and objections are4 contained fully and accurately in the5 stenographic notes taken by me upon the6 foregoing matter on June 9, 2009, and that7 this is a true and correct transcript of same.8 9 10 11 12 13 ______________________________14 MICHELE L. MURPHY15 RPR-Notary Public16 17 18 (The foregoing certification of this19 transcript does not apply to any reproduction20 of the same by any means, unless under the21 direct control and/or supervision of the22 certifying reporter.)23 24 25