But short from asking, wouldn't normally you think that an organization like Risk Management, we would have a document we could point to? Is there a document already prepared showing how much we spent here and how much we spent there?
Councilman Rizzo, Joe Perrello again from Risk Management. We do have documents like that, and we can forward them to you, yes.
But isn't that a public document? Shouldn't that be something that would be relatively available without needing to pull something like that together? Or are you telling me, It's just there and it's not here? 00300
It's part of our indemnities budget, which we share with the Law Department.
Don't you think that would be an interesting document to give to the Council for the budget process each year?
Well, I'm not speaking for the Council, but I'm just saying that I think I'd be interested to see it. Could you just tell me how much money you spent last year in Risk Management excluding salaries?
On settlements, relocation expenses, you name it, all of the things that you do. And by the way, I think your crew does a good job. The few things that I've been involved 00301 with, the problems with the sinking homes and -- what's the name of that street?
Daggett Street, that things work well. But I'd just be curious to see how much money we spend, and are we getting good deals when we relocate people? are we using this money as effectively as possible?
So I'd like to see exactly how we're spending some of that money.
Well, thank you very much, first of all, for your positive comments, and we will break down by area of the City where we spent the money on relocation and on --
That leads me to -- I would like to make a recommendation to the Finance Director that Risk Management and Fleet Management start working a bit closer in the area of driver management to making sure that people don't have suspended licenses, making sure that people know how to drive a City vehicle. I mean, again, hearing about -- hearing 00302 stories where people come to the employ of the City, that they've never had a driver's license, have never driven a driven a vehicle, but the prerequisite for getting a job here is to get a quick course, get up to the testing center, get a driver's license. Again, coming from the corporate world, and I think that's given me good experience -- I've not been involved in government my entire life, but most major corporations have a driver testing program, they have a computer-aided -- they have computer support, where if a person loses their driver's license or gets points associated, that their employer can detect that information; that after a vehicle accident, that they sit down as a group and review the vehicle accident: Was it responsible, was it not responsible; recognition programs where people that drive vehicles for 10, 15, 20 years without a responsible accident are recognized for that; that if a person has had 20 fender-benders in five years, that they also be dealt with, retrained, see if there's special equipment. I see very little interaction -- I know 00303 the Streets Department for some of the big equipment have their own in-house training, but I would like to see Risk Management and Fleet Management become more involved and more responsible for who drives, how they're driven City-owned vehicles. As you know, it's a big exposure, and we probably spend a lot of money -- I think I'm going to be surprised on the dollar amount on settlements that we make, and that will be included in there, the settlements we make for being self-insured. We have a tendency, because we're self-insured that even a minor fender-bender -- I get reports from the National Transportation Association where they point towards certain vehicles that if involved in a vehicle accidents, are very, very expense to repair. We're self-insured; every time we have a minor accident, we have to pay for the repair of that vehicle. Fleet Management and Risk Management should be working to make sure if we have a vehicle that you hit going 5 miles an hour, that it requires $5,000 worth of damages, we shouldn't be buying that vehicle; we should be looking at 00304 something else. So, again, I'd like to make a recommendation that Risk Management, Fleet Management -- and if it's a matter of money to make that work, that this is the time that we should be talking about that to make sure that the people that drive City vehicles -- we just had a situation where a person was involved in an accident that didn't have a driver's license. As the employer, we should know who has driver's licenses and who doesn't have driver's licenses.
Councilman, thank you for your support on this. One of our initiatives for FY '03 is to work with the Fleet Department; in fact, we're working with them now on a safe-driver program, and we're working on a manual right now for that.
And we also do have a 00305 driver license recognition program, and we're working to enhance that as well.
I know I've talked to -- since this one accident that just recently occurred, people tell me that operate large fleets that they have a service that if any of your employees get points, that information is forwarded to them, and the employee signs off and says, you know, that's appropriate for you to have. If an employee off-hours is arrested for DUI, that information eventually gets to the employer so that an employee can't continue to drive a vehicle that isn't licensed to do so.
Thank you. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? (No further questions.)
The next 00306 department to testify is the Revenue Department. (Witnesses come forward.)
Good morning. Please identify yourself for the record and proceed with your testimony.
Good morning, President Verna and members of City Council. I'm Nancy Kammerdeiner, Revenue Commissioner. With me this morning is Denise Garrett, Chief of the Water Revenue Bureau. We are pleased to be with you today to discuss the proposed FY '03 budgets for the Department of Revenue and the Water Revenue Bureau. I will first highlight some of the key features of the Operating Budget request for the tax side of the operation and some of the recent accomplishments of the Department. Denise Garrett will follow with testimony about the Water Revenue Bureau. I believe you have our written testimony, so we'll keep our remarks brief and then be available for questions. The Department of Revenue requests appropriations from both the General Fund and the Water Fund. 00307 The FY '03 General Fund appropriation request totals $17,471,986, with $13,039,112 of this in Class 100. This is an increase of $249,872 from FY '02 estimated obligations, and this increase will cover negotiated wage increases. These funds will support 316 full-time and 5 part-time positions. In addition, the Department's requesting $4,056,387 in Class 200 and $846,487 in Classes 3 and 400. These amounts are unchanged from FY '02 estimated obligations. In the Water Fund, the FY '03 appropriation request totals $1,773,503. Of this amount, $1,547,848 is in Class 100 to support 44 full-time positions in Payment Processing and in the outgoing-mail center. This is an increase of $49,757 from FY '02 estimated obligations. And, as in the General Fund, these increases go to support negotiated wage increases. We're also requesting $177,255 for Class 200 and $48,400 for Classes 3 and 400 for the Water Fund. The Department of Revenue is committed to supporting the Mayor Street's objective to 00308 maintain the City's fiscal health during difficult economic times. We continue to seek ways to increase collections while reducing the internal costs of collection. Computer matching remains an important tool to identify those who should be filing and paying City taxes but are not. Several discovery projects have been underway during FY '02, including the use of Internal Revenue Service data in order to identify those who should be paying school income tax and/or should be paying business-privilege and net-profits taxes. We've also been attempting to identify Philadelphia residents whose non-Pennsylvania employers do not withhold wage tax. 5 million so far this fiscal year. We also continue to enhance our consolidated Taxpayer Information Processing System (TIPS). This year, a new settlement module replaced the old process, and a new refund module will be implemented this spring. This new refund module will support the implementation of an 00309 interactive voice response, or IVR, application that's planned for FY '03 that will taxpayers to obtain information on the status of their refund applications by phone, without having to talk to a representative. The upcoming merger of the real-estate tax into TIPS will complete the integration of the major taxes into this one system. We've also focused our attention on increasing the use of the Internet and electronic funds transfers. All the forms that are now mailed out can be downloaded from the Web. We also have the business-privilege tax regulations, and we're about to add some other regulations to the Web. Our Plain Talk Tax Guide, which many of you have seen -- we distributed some copies to members of Council a week or so ago -- is also available on the Web. We look forward to the day, which, hopefully, will be in the very near future, of being able to have people file on line. We're working with the Mayor's Office of Information Services to make this happen as soon as possible. In addition to improving services 00310 through technological changes, we've been working in other ways to reduce telephone and walk-in waiting times, to increase telephone-answer rates, and reduce the time it takes to answer correspondence.
We also endeavor to improve the maintenance of correct addresses for taxpayers and to update and improve the information that's available on the system about our taxpayers. Among other things, we've been updating business location information and replacing the standard industry classification codes with the new more comprehensive North American industry classification system codes that have been referenced in some pieces of legislation from this body in recent years. These improvements to the tax base will enhance our ability to analyze and forecast tax revenues by location and by industry, and will help us to improve enforcement capabilities. Our department's technical staff is regularly engaged in outreach efforts that are designed to increase the knowledge of City taxes and to provide direct assistance to taxpayers. 00311 This is just a highlight of a few of the activities that are going on in the Department of Revenue, and we hope that this will give you some idea of the activities we're engaged in. Denise Garrett will now review some of the activities of the Water Revenue Bureau and the remainder of the Water Fund budget. And then, of course, we'll both be available for questions.
Thank you. Good morning, Council President Verna and members of City Council. I am Denise Garrett, Chief of the Water Revenue Bureau, and I thank you for the opportunity to present testimony on the Water Revenue Bureau's Operating Budget request for Fiscal Year '03. The Bureau's request for a Water Fund allocation $16,791,651 in its Fiscal Year Operating Budget request, with $9,402,619 for Class 100; $6,574,858 for Class 200; an $804,674 for Classes 300 and 400. This request is a decrease of $347,526 below our Fiscal Year '02 estimated obligations. The Water Revenue Bureau's responsible 00312 for providing accurate billing and timely collections of water and sewer charges to customers of the Philadelphia Water Department. The Bureau has undertaken many initiatives over the years aimed toward enhancing services and increasing revenues. To highlight some of those initiatives, the successful automatic meter-reading project, completed in 1999, has facilitated a reduction in theft services and improvements in collections. The incidence of theft of service after termination for non-payment has been drastically reduced. In Fiscal Year '97, 55 percent of customers restored their own service, compared to percent in Fiscal Year '01. The current trend 17 indicates a continuous reduction of 14 percent. 25 percent of monthly bills were based on actual readings. In Fiscal Year '01, more than 80 percent of our bills were based on actual readings with AMR. The accuracy of bills inspires public confidence in charges for service and increases the likelihood of timely payment. The current collections rate is the 00313 measure that determines the extent of customers who pay within 30 to 120 days. 6 percent of customers paid within that time period. 5 percent. After many years of growth, in Fiscal Year '98, the receivables balance in the Water Fund began to decline. By Fiscal Year '02, balances were down from $150,480,413 to $121,579,138, a reduction of approximately percent by Fiscal 12 Year '00. 13 Fiscal Year '02 accounts receivable are 14 projected to be $124 million approximately, and 15 $126 million is projected for Fiscal Year '02. 5 percent. 18 The Water Revenue Bureau has introduced 19 several bill payment programs over the years to 20 facilitate easy payment and reduce delinquencies. Our plan in Fiscal Year '02 is to introduce bill 22 payment via the web as well as Internet and telephone access to customer billing information. In Fiscal Year '02, we anticipate declines in overall collections due primarily to 00314 declining consumption, as well as a decrease in the number of all but the hard-core delinquent accounts. 9 million. 3 million. Since the inception of our collection agency programs in Fiscal Year '92, we have expanded to include many types of delinquent accounts in our general collection programs. In Fiscal Year '95, we instituted a collection enforcement program targeting owners of multiple-unit apart buildings, single-unit tenant-occupied properties, and subsequently combined commercial/residential tenant-occupied properties. The programs have been very successful, but after so many years of working the accounts, we are now down to the most recalcitrant delinquent customers that require more stringent measures to generate revenue. 9 million. 5 million for the same period. However, because the remaining accounts are so hard to collect, we do not expect to maintain this level of collection beyond Fiscal Year '02. Our strategy to match the FY '03 projected shortfall is to increase referrals to the Law Department and outside counsel for prosecution, since indications are that collections continue to be strong in this area. In the last four years. The Water Revenue Bureau has put tremendous effort into cleansing customer information in our database and enhancing the billing application platform to prepare for more advanced software and hardware products available in the industry.
" The multi-year project will give customers the expanded self-help services via the Web and telephone systems while providing extensive online access to 00316 information and data tools for employees. In Fiscal Year '00, the Water Revenue and Water Department consolidated its call-center operations to create a seamless and efficient interface with customers. The project is geared to cross-training employees to handle call volume overflows, but it still does not fully meet the customers' needs. Cross-training has allowed for overflow during busy periods, but work-flow management tools are needed to direct calls to personnel with appropriate skill levels to assist customers effectively. In addition, self-help systems are needed to offload activity that does not require representative contact. Finally, tracking information and consolidating duplicate requests is critical to effectively manager citizen customer interaction and control cost of operations. The Customer Information Work Management System will provide tools necessary to achieve these objectives. Water Revenue continues to support low-income and senior citizen assistance programs. The Water Department Grant Credit Program provides 00317 up to $200 in direct credit to assist customers with water bills. Seniors who qualify financially can receive credit of percent of their total 5 water and sewer bill. 6 Last year, we piloted a program to 7 extend the assistance to customers who are at or 8 above 175 percent of the poverty level in order to 9 accommodate welfare-to-work recipients who may be 10 just over the line of eligibility. 11 During Fiscal Year '00, we provided 12 assistance of $496,042 to 6,959 low-income 13 households and 41,198 senior citizens. 8 million to 15 10,000 low-income customers and 37,000 senior 16 citizens by the end of Fiscal Year '02. Our 17 projection for Fiscal Year '03 is to provide 18 2 million in grant credits to approximately 10,000 19 low-income customers and 35,000 senior citizens. 20 As in prior years, our goal is to be a 21 customer-focussed organization that is efficient 22 and effective in providing accurate billing, 23 customer services, and collections for water and 24 sewer customers of the Philadelphia Water 25 Department. 00318 I thank you for this opportunity to provide testimony on the Water Revenue Bureau Fiscal '03 Operating Budget, and would be very pleased to answer your questions.
Thank you very much. I want to publicly thank both of you for responding to the many inquiries that my office receives. I want you to know I'm really appreciative.
Councilwoman Tasco had to leave for a meeting in her office; however, she did ask that I inquire, when you want to contact a property owner and it is a property that is not owner-occupied, how do you contact the owner?
I'll respond to that first for water and sewer. We have a program called "Utility Services Tenants Rights Act," and if the property is delinquent, we contact the owner through certified mail to make an attempt to have him contact us to negotiate some sort of settlement 00319 on the property prior to any sort of enforcement action.
If I'm understanding correctly, though, the part of the question here is in terms of our sharing information with someone other than those who are collecting for water and sewer or collecting for taxes, and that gets us into a very gray area, and we've asked for advice from the Law Department in terms of whether any off-site mailing addresses that we may have can be shared in a forum other than the collection of taxes. We've gotten conflicting information from them in the past, and I'll renew our request to get some clarification there. I will hasten to add, however, that quite often, we do not have a mailing address other than the address of the property, and so we don't always have the information that someone might be seeking. The tax bills may actually go to the property, and the resident of the property, for example, may have the obligation under the lease agreement with the owner, to pay those bills.
What is your department doing in the area of collecting 00320 delinquent taxes? How many employees are engaged in this activity?
I would have to get the employee-number count for you, but in addition to sending out bills for the delinquent amounts, that's something that we engage in regularly. We have a case-management process that is a part of, at this point, all but the real-estate tax. And in our case-management system, we stage delinquencies to collection agencies for outside collection support and/or to the Law Department. I use "and/or" there because we have set up parameters on dollar amounts with the Law Department. Some things go to collection agencies first and then to the Law Department --
If you had additional employees, would your collection 00321 increase?
That's a good question because sometimes we could benefit from having additional employees who would deal with the public on discoveries and do some other discovery projects. As I indicated in my basic testimony, discovery work can be beneficial in identifying new taxpayers. But in terms of delinquencies, we probably are doing the things internally that we can do in terms of collecting --
I want to know, though, how many employees you presently have, and how does that compare to maybe five or six years ago?
What is the amount of the delinquency that we presently have?
I will have to give you an updated amount on that; I don't have the papers with me with the total dollars, but I can give you an update on the accounts receivables.
How long does 00322 it take before we can put a property up for sheriff's sale?
The Law Department actually manages the sheriff's sale process, but Revenue does identify properties that have high-dollar delinquencies. We usually, in Revenue, are looking at those that have the highest opportunity for sale for satisfaction of the full amount of the delinquency, and so we review the highest dollar delinquency amounts in real estate and certify those to the Law Department. The Law Department, in turn, goes through a process at their end that they could elaborate on, but basically, they determine whether there are any other legal actions that are currently underway through bankruptcies or some cloud on the title that may impede the process for sheriff's sale. Then they identify the ones that can, and should, go on through the process for title search. And notification procedures take place after that. There are set things within the law in terms of the number of notices. That, again, can be detailed for you. I know, as part of the NTI 00323 process, we've just gone through a detailed review of all of the steps in the acquisition process through sheriff's sale and put timelines on them. And I'm sure we can supply that. On average, it's now taking about to 7 12 months to get them to sheriff's sale from the 8 time that the title search process starts. 9
You know, I 10 feel very strongly that the City in some way contributes to the blight. We -- I know of -- I go through the computer many times, and I notice that we have one owner that may have 6, 10, 12 properties, and they're all delinquent in taxes; they owe taxes, they owe water bills. I don't know why we can't expedite those properties for sheriff's sale.
We do attempt to do that. Unfortunately, a lot of the individual properties have liabilities that exceed the market value of the property, and that makes them unlikely candidates for sale at a sheriff's sale where all of those obligations need to be satisfied for completion of the sale. And so they --
So we just 00324 let them sit there, they're abandoned to a degree, they become unsafe, and then it's our responsibility to have them demolished, and we still don't get a dime from it.
Those are some of the issues that I think we are addressing now through NTI.
Well, I would be very anxious to see how that works out. I'm very, very curious. What is the status of the tax lien sale, and can you tell me, when do you project that the bonds will be retired?
The ending date on the bonds is June 15, 2004. The bond payments so far have been made on time, and basically the payments that are made each quarter are for the interest due to the bondholders and for the expenses incurred by the servicers and the trustee. That process is being managed by First Union as the trustee, and at this point, there's one servicer. There had, as you know, initially been three servicers, and two of them have ended their relationship with the bond issue and Herb 00325 Goggin {ph) is the remaining servicer.
Aren't we paying any principal? You said we're only paying interest --
Those are the required expenses each quarter. Payments are being made against principal each quarter as well, depending upon the funds available at the time of the payments. Those payments are made once a quarter, and the amounts on principal will vary, depending upon the funds available.
Okay, Commissioner, do you know why the General Fund budget, with the exception of the payroll, is the same for FY '03 as it is for FY '02? In your opinion, does this budget allow your department to optimize the City's collection effort?
Yes, it does. We have some things that we've been doing things in terms of saving, in terms of our cost, doing things more efficiently. And those savings go toward covering things that are not part of the past, but we're doing as new initiatives going forward. So, yes, I think that those costs 00326 are --
Well, the opportunities that we have with our consolidated system of sending notices to taxpayers earlier increase the number of notices that are mailed. These are not bills, but notices of non-filers, information about returns that have been incomplete or have errors in them. We're doing more in terms of contact at an earlier point with taxpayers instead of going into collection activities. We're trying to avoid lawsuits and/or more stringent enforcement actions and get the collections in early.
What is the collection fee that these collectors get?
I was just checking to see if we have that off the top. There are three different rates, one for each of the collection agencies, and let me see the if my staff has it here or we'll have to supply it. (Ms. Kammerdeiner confers off the record with colleagues.) 00327 (Witness comes forward.)
Deputy Revenue Commissioner Jim Haley. The rate average rate of three collections agencies is percent. 7
Thank you, Madam 12 President. 13 You said "the average." Could you give 14 us a breakout as to what each -- I think that's 15 what the Chair was asking. 16
By company, I could not. I 17 could get that information for you. 18
I couldn't tell you that by company right now, but I can get you that information.
Would you provide that information to us, please.
Just a follow-up. 00328 Is one company performing a different service than the other? Is that why the rates may be different?
We selected the three through an RFP process and got them to their lowest available amounts. These firms also provide collection services for water and sewer collections as well as taxes, and the rates that we are paying on these contracts are lower than the rates that we paid with the last contracts that were in place.
I guess my question still is that if you have three contractors, are they all performing the same service? And if they are, why would the rates be different for one servicer as opposed to the other, assuming they're all performing the same service? Wouldn't we have gone with the lowest or the lowest two or the lowest one if the services are exact?
The differential between them, as I recall, is not great, first off, but we did not force them to go to the lowest amount, and we wanted to retain some competition between agencies and ensure that we had coverage in all areas of the City in terms of people being able to do some walk-in if that's something that they 00329 wanted to do. There are also --
Some of them do onsite counseling and work with people when they've been trying to get the payments from them. It's not a formal onsite --
Yes. Most of it is by telephone, some of it's by mail, but there are people, who, when they get those notices, want to meet with someone, and they look for a place to go in order to do that.
But you don't know off the top of your head if any of these companies are doing a different service than, say, is Penn Credit doing something different than St. Hill or --
We divide the portfolio among them, and so basically, they can get -- or will be getting the same types of cases to collect on.
I don't want to take up all of the Chair's time, but I just want to ask one more question.
Do you divide the cases up evenly among the three? Or there is there a formula that you use for dividing the cases?
Yes. We usually do it -- random digits, the account number. 00331
I have other questions for later. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Rizzo.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd also like to, Commissioner Kammerdeiner, thank Denise Garrett for the services that she personally involves herself in.
For the cases that we send over, like in the President's office, are normally very complicated and are very involved, and it's greatly appreciated when some of these complicated cases do get resolved, and I'm sure it makes you happy to get a problem cleared up that's on your desk and also that our constituents come to closure on their dealings with the Water Revenue Department. I'd just like to follow up on the 00332 recent conversation. It seems strange that you'd have three vendors providing the same service and one being compensated at a higher level than the other, and I think that our Procurement Department could eventually come up with a scenario, a formula, that would get that to the best benefit of the City down. I mean, I've never heard of -- this is an all new one for me today -- competitive bidding that are three different numbers.
These are done by an RFP; it's not a competitive bid and --
Well, then maybe that's the problem. And I've heard honestly that it is not just in the Revenue Department, but I hear it is very difficult. I have had companies very, very frustrated that they can't even get an appointment with some of the departments to come in and talk about the services that they can provide. Now, I'm not suggesting that that's the problem in Revenue, but I know that it is very difficult to come in and suppress your interests and want to do business with the City of 00333 Philadelphia, so I don't know what -- how you get on that list, how you become a vendor, get an RFP to provide that service, but I think that there's probably a better way to do that because it just doesn't sound sensible to me to have three different RFPs. A question that I'd like you to -- some information that I'd like you to provide to the Chair, and I'll direct this question now for verbal response, if possible, to the Chief of Water Revenue. How many accounts do we have presently for water service that are unmetered, that we estimate bills? I also have a concern about something that I'm finding out is becoming even more so a problem, that we issue permits that we allow contractors to go to a fire hydrant, fill up a water truck, take the water, and use it for what I thought was supposed to be the appropriate use for mixing and cleaning up and things like that at construction sites. Now I find that we have lawn services that pull up to a hydrant, fill up the truck, because they have a permit and they're able to go spray for crab grass and to fertilize lawns 00334 and things like that. And I also find that there are companies that don't even reside in the City of Philadelphia, but it's a pretty good deal to come from Montgomery County to the first fire hydrant in the City of Philadelphia and fill up a 2,000-gallon tank truck and take it back and wash their equipment. I don't know how well that permit system is managed, whether even Water Revenue is involved; if not, you should be, whether that permit is issued from the Water Department, but I think that this is something that we should really be looking at. Especially with the water shortage that's coming up, it might get fashionable to get a permit and come to Philadelphia to fill up your truck and go wherever and use our valuable water. Do you know about this permit system that contractors use to tap a hydrant to supposedly use water for construction sites?
I am aware of the permit system; however, I am not involved in that process in the front end, which is the authorization in issuance. That is the Water Department and 00335 Licenses and Inspections. From time to time, we will get those bills to collect, and that's after the fact. But because it is a revenue-impacting process, we do try to insinuate ourselves into it when we discover situations that you described.
I think that that whole system -- and I'm speaking to the Finance Director also, who's not at the table -- should -- for a few hundred dollars to be able to get a permit where a resident or a businessperson would pay thousands of dollars for a similar number of gallons of water consumed, and no management, no 15 oversight, from what I understand. I think that that whole process, because I think it could lead to abuse, where the contractors that have those permits are not necessarily using that water at the site of the construction, but in many cases, since it's cheaper to pull a permit, fill up the truck every day, every other day, and basically fill out a form saying how many gallons they used -- it could be 200, it could be 2000 -- to go back and use that water to construct -- to clean their equipment. 00336 I think -- not to belabor this, but I think that that is something that really needs to be looked at -- how we do it, is it an annual permit, who gets it, who doesn't get it. There should be, in my opinion, more than just filling out a form to be able to pull up to a hydrant. And if the lawn treatment company wants to use City water for a profit, then we should be receiving the correct amount of revenue, not just an estimated revenue that they give us.
Well, I agree with you, Councilman, an there is an initiative underway to consolidate information across multiple departments that affect situations such as that. We're working with Licenses and Inspections and the Water Department and the Mayor's Office of Information Systems to put data into a centralized database that we can use to intelligently make decisions about how we plan going forward. Right now, the way the process is, it's very manual and very intensive to monitor, but when we sell water, we don't charge an overhead for what you do with it; we just sell it for the rate that we have. 00337 But we certainly can look at that system itself to determine if, in fact, it is being abused beyond what we're actually anticipating it's used for.
Beyond the permit system, do we have any unmetered accounts that are strictly contractual? I know we sell water to Bucks County. Many of my friends left Philadelphia, and I went and visited one, and he started to tell me how nice it is in Bucks County, how great the water is, and when I reminded him that it was Philadelphia water, he, uh -- So how many unmetered scenarios do you know of that we have that may strictly pay a fixed amount for -- and, again, not these big bulk deals, but how many unmetered accounts would you say we have, if any?
I'm not aware of the number at this point. I can find that information out for you. But generally most of our base is metered. If there is a situation where we have unmetered conditions like you say, it's by contract, such as the Bucks County situation, or 00338 it's unmetered and then we measure or monitor it on a regular basis. So I can find out exactly how many unmetered conditions we have on a non-compliant basis and how many unmetered conditions we have as a result of some sort of contractual agreement.
Who negotiates the Bucks County deal, and do we have any other deals like Bucks County?
We collect Bucks County; we don't collect all of the contracts, the major contracts, just the Bucks County. 00339
I'm not aware of the exact number. Think it's somewhere in the area of around 12.
Could you give me a -- do you have a feel for who they may be?
I know we just recently contracted with Philadelphia Suburban Water. And I'm not absolutely certain -- I don't think we have a New Jersey contract.
I'm not certain. I know 00340 we were negotiating with New Jersey, but I'm not sure if we actually closed that transaction.
Are they interruptible? If we have a problem, crisis here in the City, especially with the water shortage --
You would need to ask the Water Department that question. I would not know that.
Okay, all right. I think it's an interesting area we need to go and look at. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
You're welcome. The Chair recognizes Councilman DiCicco.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think this is my last question. When the fees are implemented or collected by the agencies, do they collect only -- do we give them a fee only if there's a collection made, or is there a servicing fee as well?
So they don't get reimbursed for any costs until that collection has been made.
They the collect funds, turn them over to us, and then they get paid a percentage of that.
And then that's the number you'll get back to us with what percentage the particular companies make?
I think that's all I have for the moment. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The Chair recognizes Councilman Ortiz.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Commissioner, over the last 15, 20 years, we've given tax breaks, tax abatements to a lot of corporations and businesses across the City, and in particular Center City, a lot of that. Many of those should be coming into line during the next year or so. Can we have a list of abatements that are terminating? 00342
That information is maintained by the Board of Revision of Taxes, and they certify to us the assessed values and then identify whether those are taxable or they're tax-exempt. So we get that information from them on an annual basis.
But who sends the notices to these individuals, you know, for collection of taxes?
We actually send the tax bills to them and collect what's due, but we get the assessment information and the indication of whether it's taxable or not taxable from the Board of Revision of Taxes. They certify to us annually and --
You do not have a list of buildings and properties that are coming into line in the current year?
They maintain that at the Board of Revision of Taxes. We could request it for you. 00343
All right. I'd like to find out what is the amount that we currently have in terms of properties that are being abated or have began tax relief through TIFs and so on.
TIFs is a different subject; that's why I asked you what you were referring to.
But it's the same concept; they're not paying property taxes.
In the TIF, they pay us, and then we process a payment to the TIF, so the taxes are actually pid on that, that's on the an abatement.
Okay, but those taxes, though, there's some way in which we devolve those taxes back.
And so we're the 00344 collection agencies, plus we devolve it back.
And that's an extra cost to us. I'd rather they get abated than us do the collecting from them and then have to give it back to them.
With the TIF, we collect the whole amount, but a portion of that tax is ours to keep. It's part of the base that was considered a tax at the time the TIF was in place, so --
I would rather that we give it to them instead of collecting that portion and then have to return it back them, but I'd like to see what is the information in terms of numbers, dollars, and so on in both areas.
Okay. And how many of the abated properties are coming into line during the next two years or so? And how much money will that mean to the General Fund?
When you're speaking about what properties are coming due --
I mean the ones that we gave abatements over years ago and so on. 11
The abatements for 12 three- or ten-year, depending upon -- 13
But we also did a 14 ten-year exemption on the improvements back in 15 1997.
And if I'm not mistaken, I think that legislation is coming due. I think we did it for a five-year period, and that we may have to, assuming this Council will approve to reenact that.
Well, we may have to reenact and that's for a ten-year period, so those properties will become due in 2007.
But the exemption 00346 was on a sliding scale, so the first year, we didn't collect any tax on the improvement, but the second year, we're collecting percent of the 5 value. 6 So am I correct that that's ongoing? 7
That's really 8 something that the Board of Revision of Taxes 9 manages and so it would have to be a report from 10 them.
I'd just like to get a clear picture of what our collection basis is in terms of -- now that we're under discussion of the land-tax question in the City, I think this is somewhat relevant to that discussion.
I'll ask David Glancy to put a together as much of a report as he can for you on how many properties are at what point in the abatement process. In terms of the assessment, I suspect that he will have a problem telling you what it will look like two to three years out, because the assessed values may be very different at that point in time, depending upon the nature of the improvements and what they're doing with the 00347 property.
Because we need to project in terms of a lot of stuff that we may be entering into discussion.
And on the TIFs, as you know or will remember, the TIF agreements have a 20-year life, so we have a longer period of time until any of those would be --
But I'd just like to find out how much money we've taken off of the tax rolls and so on.
Some of those TIFs are not active yet, but that's what we'll have to put together for you.